Tom Appel (2:23)

We can. All right, do that.

Jill Simonello (2:27)

Yeah. No, I literally just found out today that I am officially going to be competing in a new road rally.

Tom Appel (2:34)

Oh, it's new.

Jill Simonello (2:35)

New, new. This is the first year in existence and it is the Trinity Rally and that's t R I N I T E. And it is put on by the founders of the Rebelle. So you'll see a lot of similar players who are participating in this. But it is not an off road race or rally. I should say it's not a race. And it is a like time distance kind of enduro race. So you'll be an old school rally. An old school rally with the route books and no plot points. To the best of my knowledge, there will be no navigating on a map and I think we get to keep our phones, but I will be competing with Lucid in elucid air.

Tom Appel (3:22)

All right, well, that's cool. Yeah, keep us posted.

Jill Simonello (3:24)

So kind of cool. But yeah, if you want more information, be sure to go to Trinity. What is the website? It's trinityrally.com, so Trinity with an E. My partner is going to be Kristin Shaw, who was my former partner for the Rebelle and we are reprising the Brute Squad.

Tom Appel (3:43)

She's been a guest on the show.

Jill Simonello (3:45)

She has been.

Tom Appel (3:45)

I think twice. Yeah, I think twice, yeah. All right, as long as we're talking about ourselves, I've got something real quick.

Jill Simonello (3:50)

Okay.

Tom Appel (3:51)

I don't remember when we talked about it, but I remembered to follow up. This is the watch I was talking about.

Jill Simonello (3:58)

All right.

Tom Appel (3:59)

This watch, and I'll take a picture of it and post it on Facebook, is built by a little company called Arista in Germany.

Jill Simonello (4:05)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Tom Appel (4:06)

They're little. They're cute. Little hand. Not cute. They're actually man sized, but they're, they're, they're handmade watches. They're relatively affordable because Aristo is not a big, you know, brand name or anything like that. They're beautiful watches. But this one, the reason I'm talking about it at all and that we talked about it, this is a remake of the Dash clock in a Mercedes Benz two eighties SL from the late, I think early sixties.

Jill Simonello (4:29)

Okay.

Tom Appel (4:29)

Right in there. But yeah, good looking watch. But that's exactly what that would have looked like.

Jill Simonello (4:33)

Okay.

Tom Appel (4:34)

So cool. It's cool. It's not licensed, you know.

Jill Simonello (4:37)

And I should say that overall you are looking very cool today. You've got a haircut and you've got like a nice green shirt on. You're looking very nice today.

Tom Appel (4:44)

And I'm only like two weeks from a shave.

Jill Simonello (4:46)

Yeah, yeah. Well, I wasn't going to bring that up. I'm bringing up the haircut.

Tom Appel (4:50)

I've got a mea culpa to address. I don't know what I Said wrong. I think Sam pointed this out. Our good friend Sam Fiorani from Auto Forecast Solutions. But when we were talking about Canadian factories and we were talking about Brampton, the Stellantis plant, possibly closing or doing work for Chinese carmakers, somehow I got something wrong. But what had moved out of there from the planning was a car we'll be talking about later, which is the Jeep Cherokee.

Jill Simonello (5:13)

Yes.

Tom Appel (5:14)

So just to fill in all the gaps on this, Belvedere, Illinois, about an hour north of here, not even an hour north of here, was going to build an electric pickup truck for Ram. A mid sized pickup truck. Those plans fell through. No one wants anything electric anymore. So what was going to happen at Belvedere stopped happening.

Jill Simonello (5:32)

Well, I thought they were going to build the new Dakota.

Tom Appel (5:35)

I don't know when that's coming. But what they are going to build is the Cherokee. Okay, that's, that's the story.

Jill Simonello (5:41)

That's, that's 100% a go.

Tom Appel (5:42)

So we have a lot of Cherokee news today. You drove it?

Jill Simonello (5:44)

I did.

Tom Appel (5:45)

We'll talk about that a little bit.

Jill Simonello (5:46)

Currently driving it.

Tom Appel (5:47)

Speaking of Chinese companies that might build things with Stellantis, we talked about Leap Motor, which I kept calling Leap Motors. It's Leap Motor. Okay, so a Lister. I'm trying to find his name here.

Jill Simonello (6:03)

He actually commented on Blue Sky, Right?

Tom Appel (6:05)

Yep. DS Bloomer from New Zealand.

Jill Simonello (6:07)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (6:08)

Owns a Leap Motor car.

Jill Simonello (6:09)

Yeah, he says he loves it.

Tom Appel (6:10)

He's had it a couple years. He's very happy with it. He has the C10, which is a small crossover. It's attractive. It looks like a small wagon, but it's the 70 kilowatt hour LFP battery. That's lithium iron phosphate battery, which works really well in some climates. 220 horsepower. And he's very happy with it.

Jill Simonello (6:26)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (6:26)

So we have a listener who drives a Leap Motor.

Jill Simonello (6:28)

Yeah. All right, thanks for, thanks for reaching out to us.

Tom Appel (6:31)

Yeah. Thanks for checking in. Please do that more often.

Jill Simonello (6:33)

Yes.

Tom Appel (6:33)

Weird story, but vw, remember, they were all about diesels then they were all about electrics. They're killing the ID4 in the US

Jill Simonello (6:41)

well, they're not killing it. Yeah, it's taking a break.

Tom Appel (6:46)

Yeah.

Jill Simonello (6:46)

Just like the ID Buzz is taking a break.

Tom Appel (6:49)

Yeah. We'll see how long that break is.

Jill Simonello (6:51)

Well, you know what, I have faith that they will bring them back in about three years.

Tom Appel (6:57)

Oh, three years maybe. So anyway, they need more room to make the Atlas, so at least they've got something that's selling hot. And you've experienced the new Atlas? Yes, all right. Cadillac Lyric. I don't know a lot about this. A lot of rumors, a lot of. A lot of stuff on the, in the socials. But Cadillac Lyric. A class action suit is building up because apparently some lyrics brick up. Oh, they just stop. I couldn't find a lot about this. We'll talk about it later when we have more facts. But it's out there right now and people are trying to put together a class action. I don't know what the goal of the class action is. I don't know if it's a refund for your money or a brand new vehicle. I don't know. Yeah, it is weird that we haven't seen a recall first in the 21st century. It seems like everyone recalls everything right away immediately.

Jill Simonello (7:41)

Yeah, well, I don't know how they can be successful with a class action without a recall. Or maybe they're doing the class action to force a recall.

Tom Appel (7:50)

I don't know.

Jill Simonello (7:50)

Yeah, I don't know.

Tom Appel (7:51)

They can be completely different things because they're entirely different entities. But we'll see where that goes. Okay, remind me about this after the quiz. I need your help with something. What it has to do with Toyota and Subaru EVs.

Jill Simonello (8:05)

You need my help?

Tom Appel (8:06)

I do.

Jill Simonello (8:07)

Okay.

Tom Appel (8:07)

And we're gonna, we're gonna do this therapy on air.

Jill Simonello (8:09)

Okay. I, I can, I can. I will try and talk you through the therapy.

Tom Appel (8:13)

Okay. I need help.

Jill Simonello (8:14)

Okay.

Tom Appel (8:16)

Kia.

Jill Simonello (8:17)

Yes.

Tom Appel (8:17)

The Tasman pickup.

Jill Simonello (8:19)

Yes.

Tom Appel (8:19)

We're getting it.

Jill Simonello (8:20)

Yes.

Tom Appel (8:20)

Not soon. By 2030.

Jill Simonello (8:22)

Well, soon.

Tom Appel (8:23)

Ish.

Jill Simonello (8:23)

Which is about the same time that we should be seeing the new Hyundai pickup truck.

Tom Appel (8:26)

Yeah. So we were talking just last week about body on frame vehicles from Hyundai and from Kia. Here's one of them.

Jill Simonello (8:33)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (8:34)

So likely to be built in the US they're going to have. So they will set up an assembly line for that.

Jill Simonello (8:39)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (8:39)

So the Tasman pickup is coming. That's one more vehicle in the very crowded midsize pickup truck category.

Jill Simonello (8:46)

Yeah. You know, we've heard a lot of chatter. I know you also listen to Automotive News Daily podcast and they've been talking about it a lot in terms of, you know, they don't know how it's going to be able to compete, but they're going to have to do something that is exceptional. So it's either the truck is either going to have to do something exceptional or it's going to have to be priced.

Alex Nysak (9:07)

Well.

Tom Appel (9:07)

They're talking about an erev. So an extended range electric vehicle.

Jill Simonello (9:10)

Yep.

Tom Appel (9:10)

Again, I think that automakers have Created interest in something that may have no interest, and that's range. If you are not talking about an electric vehicle, do you care how far your car goes on a tank of gas, assuming it's better than 300 miles?

Jill Simonello (9:28)

Well, so here's the thing. If I want to get the benefit of electric. So driving around town, coming out here to the radio show, it's about a 25 mile drive, being able to do that round trip on electric, getting better fuel economy, driving down to Indianapolis, but with a truck specifically, I need to tow, I need to haul, which is an immediate range buster.

Tom Appel (9:54)

But is range now an issue for those things?

Jill Simonello (9:57)

Well, so here's the thing. For an electric truck, 100%.

Tom Appel (10:00)

Well, there are no electric compact pickup, midsize.

Jill Simonello (10:03)

No, no, no. But I'm just saying, like if you, as soon as you start talking about electric range become. Because a truck can't do truck things on electric vehicles.

Tom Appel (10:11)

No, no. If you're talking about an electric vehicle or even an extended range electric vehicle, maybe. But giving these combined ranges is weird. People are giving range for the like hybrids or something. Like they'll give a range of 560 miles. Like, who cares?

Jill Simonello (10:25)

Well, what they care about is what the electric range is.

Tom Appel (10:27)

But if it's a hybrid, there's no electric range at all.

Jill Simonello (10:29)

But you're saying erev.

Tom Appel (10:31)

My point is that manufacturers are advertising combined range. So either erev, combined range, which is electric and gas, or hybrid range. And again, it doesn't. I think they're creating, I don't know, category of interest where there isn't any interest.

Jill Simonello (10:47)

Okay, so taking, taking electric out of it, and you're talking about a gas vehicle. I will say again, driving back and forth to Indianapolis a lot, it is very nice to get into a car and say, oh, I have 560 miles of range. I could drive all the way to Indianapolis and back without stopping at a gas station.

Tom Appel (11:04)

Yeah, but you need to pee three times in that time.

Jill Simonello (11:06)

I don't, I don't know.

Tom Appel (11:07)

Does anyone actually drive six hours?

Jill Simonello (11:10)

Yes.

Tom Appel (11:10)

Do they?

Jill Simonello (11:11)

I do.

Tom Appel (11:13)

No stopping.

Jill Simonello (11:14)

No stopping.

Tom Appel (11:14)

Well, there's you.

Jill Simonello (11:16)

Yeah, there's me.

Tom Appel (11:17)

Back in the late 70s, early 80s, when General Motors was selling the first diesel engines, the Oldsmobile 350 diesel and things like the Chevy Caprice wagon and stuff like that. They used to advertise the total range on those cars. And it would be. The EPA got kind of upset about how things were being advertised and there'd be these huge numbers and the EPA didn't want them to highlight the highway mileage or the total highway mileage. But the total highway mileage was often 7 or 800 miles. It's like, wow. And there may have been some need for that because diesel wasn't always available in those days. And you wanted to get real diesel, not AG diesel, which were different things. But anyway. All right, that was just a question that wasn't even on my list of things to talk about. What was I going to say here? You were going to help me with my Toyota Subaru problem. Scout has pushed back its launch dates. So that's Scout Motors, not a division of, but a wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen.

Jill Simonello (12:17)

This is important, very important distinction if

Tom Appel (12:20)

you're trying to avoid franchise, the wrath of franchise. But the Traveler, which is the suv, is going to be pushed back to a launch of September 2028. And the Terra pickup, 30. 30. How are we talking about 3030 already?

Jill Simonello (12:33)

You know, it's four years away.

Tom Appel (12:34)

I'm still getting ready for Y2K. All right, so we talked a little bit about the thing going on in Canada. All right. What about in Austria?

Jill Simonello (12:45)

No.

Tom Appel (12:46)

All right. Steyr of Magna Steyr, one of the largest auto suppliers in the world, has that factory in Austria. And they used to build the Fisker Ocean, the BMW Z4, and the Toyota GR Supra.

Jill Simonello (12:59)

Right.

Tom Appel (13:00)

Well, none of those exist anymore.

Jill Simonello (13:01)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (13:02)

So Magna's looking for work. And where are they turning for work? You can guess this. Think Canada.

Jill Simonello (13:10)

Chinese.

Tom Appel (13:11)

Yes.

Jill Simonello (13:11)

Okay.

Tom Appel (13:13)

A company that I don't know how to pronounce, it's Xpeng, and I think most people pronounce it xpeng. Xpeng. It's a very weird pronunciation, and I think there are syllables we don't have in English in there.

Jill Simonello (13:23)

Xpeng, you said?

Tom Appel (13:24)

Yeah. Xpeng and gac, both relatively small EV manufacturers, are looking to build things in Austria with Magna Styer for sale in Europe for the exact reasons you would think to dodge tariffs.

Jill Simonello (13:36)

Right.

Tom Appel (13:37)

All right, so there's that deal there, too. You know what? We could talk real quick about the help I need. Are you ready?

Jill Simonello (13:44)

Okay.

Tom Appel (13:45)

I have in front of me handwritten, this list of Toyota EVs.

Jill Simonello (13:50)

Okay.

Tom Appel (13:51)

And the similar. The similar. I'm doing weird motions with my hand.

Jill Simonello (13:54)

You are? I'm following your weird motions.

Tom Appel (13:57)

Subaru models. I can't keep these Subaru models straight. No matter what I do, I can't remember them.

Jill Simonello (14:03)

Okay.

Tom Appel (14:04)

So the Toyota Chr, which is new.

Jill Simonello (14:06)

Yes.

Tom Appel (14:07)

And it's the smallest, but not cheapest Toyota EV becomes the Subaru uncharted.

Jill Simonello (14:13)

Yes.

Tom Appel (14:14)

Okay.

Jill Simonello (14:14)

That's the One that I'm just like. What's the plural of that? Uncharted.

Tom Appel (14:18)

Oh, no, I didn't even think of it.

Jill Simonello (14:19)

Oh, yeah.

Tom Appel (14:20)

The BZ used to be the BZ4X.

Jill Simonello (14:23)

Right.

Tom Appel (14:24)

Is the Solterra. We knew that.

Jill Simonello (14:26)

We knew that. That's easy.

Tom Appel (14:28)

The Beezy Woodland.

Jill Simonello (14:29)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (14:29)

I'm not going to remember this. Trail seeker.

Jill Simonello (14:31)

I remember that.

Tom Appel (14:32)

And then the Highlander. The Highlander we don't have yet is becoming the getaway.

Jill Simonello (14:37)

Correct.

Tom Appel (14:37)

This is a lot of stuff to remember.

Jill Simonello (14:39)

It is a lot of stuff.

Tom Appel (14:40)

And I'm old.

Jill Simonello (14:40)

The Uncharted is the one that I will forget because again, I have a mental blip over what the plural of that is.

Tom Appel (14:48)

Subaru had such clearly defined names and these are all weird. I don't like getaway.

Jill Simonello (14:54)

You know what, though? I've had a lot of people tell me on social media they like getaway.

Tom Appel (14:58)

Really?

Jill Simonello (14:59)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (14:59)

Yeah. No, I don't. Good quiz coming up later.

Jill Simonello (15:03)

Okay.

Tom Appel (15:04)

I think that's most of the stuff I needed to get to.

Jill Simonello (15:06)

Okay. Oh, no.

Tom Appel (15:08)

I just killed everything we're going to talk about after the quiz.

Jill Simonello (15:10)

That's fine. We can take a little extra time now and I'll talk about the Jeep Cherokee.

Tom Appel (15:15)

Well, we're going to do that anyway.

Jill Simonello (15:16)

Yeah, yeah.

Tom Appel (15:17)

Tell me about the Cherokee. So for people who don't know, let me just wrap this up here real quick. The Cherokee was discontinued in 2026, actually, just to make this full circle. I'm sorry, 2023. I was like, 2023, leaving Belvedere without anything to build. We just talked to Belvedere factory. So this whole thing comes full circle now. There's a brand new Cherokee. It looks bigger, beefier, more substantial. And it needed to because it slots between the compass, which the old Cherokee did not look bigger than, and the much larger, much more expensive Grand Cherokee, which was always a very refined, very luxurious car. So there's a huge price gap there. New Cherokee seems to fix a lot of these problems.

Jill Simonello (15:56)

Yes.

Tom Appel (15:56)

I'm pointing at you. Go, go.

Jill Simonello (15:58)

Okay. Yeah. So this is a really interesting vehicle because it is a ground up redesign, two years in the making. It is a hybrid only powertrain, which is, I think, very interesting.

Tom Appel (16:11)

Is it hybrid only for now or forever?

Jill Simonello (16:14)

For now? I don't know if they've announced a gas powertrain in it.

Tom Appel (16:18)

If I thought about it, I would have checked that before asking you.

Jill Simonello (16:21)

Yeah, but it's the first ever hybrid only cheroke, obviously. And you know, I. So I've been driving it for almost a week. Now I did not take a road trip to Indianapolis, but I've been making several trips out to the suburbs and back. So I've been doing some combined driving. So I've had really good opportunity to test the hybrid powertrain and it's really good. I've been averaging in combined driving 40.5 miles per gallon and EPA estimates like 37 miles per gallon in combined driving.

Tom Appel (16:55)

The 4XE high powertrains, which are now gone from Jeep.

Jill Simonello (16:59)

Yes.

Tom Appel (16:59)

Were not very smooth.

Jill Simonello (17:00)

No.

Tom Appel (17:01)

Just wanted to throw that out there. So this is good.

Jill Simonello (17:03)

Well, let me issue the caveat. The fuel economy is really good. I will say that I don't know that the actual operation and shift between hybrid and gas is terribly smooth. The engine is a little bit loud, it's a little bit buzzy. You can definitely hear when it switches back and forth between the two. And there are times when I like turn.

Tom Appel (17:28)

There has never been a Fiat Chrysler or Stellantis four cylinder engine sold in the US that wasn't buzzy.

Jill Simonello (17:34)

Yeah, yeah. But like I'll turn it on in my garage and it's like. And I'm just like, what, what, what, is something wrong? You know, it feels like it's revving too high and then as soon as like the, the engine shuts off and it switches into hybrid mode, I'm just like, maybe I imagined it but then the next time I.

Tom Appel (17:52)

Does the engine always kick started?

Jill Simonello (17:54)

Yeah. So far it has. Yeah.

Tom Appel (17:56)

A lot of hybrids don't. Like, you'll get into a Toyota and start it and you'll get no gasoline engine at all.

Jill Simonello (18:00)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (18:01)

You'll drive out of your neighborhood before the gas engine kicks in.

Jill Simonello (18:04)

Yeah. So but this, this has a 1.6 liter turbocharged four cylinder engine, 210 horsepower, more than 500 miles of range.

Tom Appel (18:15)

Who cares?

Jill Simonello (18:16)

Clearly not you.

Tom Appel (18:17)

Again, back a long time ago, Consumer guide had a test car and it was a Suzuki SX4.

Jill Simonello (18:23)

Okay.

Tom Appel (18:23)

Delightful car.

Jill Simonello (18:24)

Delightful.

Tom Appel (18:25)

It was just a little economy car with a 2 liter engine and fun to drive. Really well built, handled well, really screwed together nicely and it was affordable. Mileage was not great for what it

Jill Simonello (18:37)

was, but all wheel drive standard.

Tom Appel (18:39)

But not only was the mileage not great, it had a tiny, tiny gas tank and we were having a hard time getting 250 miles of range out of that. That's annoying.

Jill Simonello (18:49)

500 miles is really good. I've driven about 100 miles, more than 100 miles so far. And yeah, I mean the, the tank shows that I have like 390 miles of range left to go. So I'm pretty pleased with the fuel economy. I think that that is. That is really good. It definitely drives big. So, you know, coming out of my garage, I have to do like a three point turn in my alley to get around the corner and not hit anything. And so it's definitely wider, bigger, and it's feels heavier.

Tom Appel (19:22)

It is those things.

Jill Simonello (19:23)

Yeah. And you feel it. You definitely feel it.

Tom Appel (19:26)

The wheelbase is six and a half inches longer, which pays off in rear seat legroom. And the whole car is six inches longer.

Jill Simonello (19:32)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (19:32)

And that compares to the Grand Cherokee, which is about 194 inches, and then the compass, which is about 173. So it slots nicely in that lineup now.

Jill Simonello (19:40)

Yeah. No, and you know, I mean, it's handsome. I like the interior appointments. It looks really nice, the vehicle.

Tom Appel (19:47)

And you're driving the Laredo, which is the second cheap. Cheapest.

Jill Simonello (19:50)

Yeah. So as tested price for this vehicle is about $41,000. And I forget what the base version is, but I want to say that starts around 37. And as a petite driver, I'm gonna have to say, like, this is not going to be great for smaller drivers. The belt line is really high and I haven't been able to get the seat up high enough to be able to feel like I have a confident, commanding driving position. And the seat bottom's a little bit big.

Tom Appel (20:18)

I am giggling and you're probably wondering why.

Jill Simonello (20:20)

I saw a text message come through from Paul. Harold.

Tom Appel (20:23)

Paul. Harold just checked in. Paul. The 2 liter. From Paul. The 2 liter engine in my Eagle Talon TSI was very smooth and sounded great. For people who don't remember, Eagle was a division of Chrysler at the time. It was part of that whole Eagle Renault Jeep thing that went down in the 90s.

Jill Simonello (20:41)

Right.

Tom Appel (20:41)

But that's true. However, that engine was built by Mitsubishi,

Jill Simonello (20:45)

so there you go. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean overall, I like the interior fit and finish. I like the room and the spaciousness. But like I said, the seat bottom's a little bit big for somebody my size. And it definitely. You feel the extra bulk.

Tom Appel (21:02)

I wanted to talk about the price a little bit because I've seen some groaning online about the price.

Jill Simonello (21:07)

Yeah, yeah.

Tom Appel (21:08)

Two things to consider. All wheel drive is standard.

Jill Simonello (21:10)

Standard, yes.

Tom Appel (21:11)

And hybrid is standard.

Jill Simonello (21:12)

Yes.

Tom Appel (21:12)

That's about 5,000 bucks retail value of equipment. So if you were. Knock that off. The base price goes from 38 grand to 33 grand.

Jill Simonello (21:19)

Right.

Tom Appel (21:20)

I think that's perfectly reasonable for what is a smallish midsize crossover.

Jill Simonello (21:25)

Right. So I mean, if they do bring out a gas engine, you know, only, and you know it should, or in addition, you know, the price should drop. But I mean, here's the thing. It slots between the Compass and the Grand Cherokee.

Tom Appel (21:39)

It's where they need a car very badly.

Jill Simonello (21:41)

Exactly.

Tom Appel (21:41)

Actually, the Compass sells reasonably well. Yeah, that engine is buzzy, but we've already covered that. But they need something here and now they have it because the Grand Cherokee has always been sort of a luxury offering and it's been very expensive and even cheap versions of the Grand Cherokee, not so cheap. So this is good. This is good for Jeep. We'll see how well this sells. Right now they're all all wheel drive. I've been arguing and we can have this conversation later that all Jeep should be all wheel drive a la Subaru. I mean that should be there.

Jill Simonello (22:12)

I, I would not disagree with that statement.

Tom Appel (22:14)

Yeah. When they were telling like the old, not the Compass, what was the other car? They had two cars that were exactly alike except for the front end styling. The Compass and the Patriot. Was it the Patriot?

Jill Simonello (22:25)

But I'm trying not to remember the Patriot.

Tom Appel (22:28)

Those vehicles. Oh, the Patriot I think was something else. But I'll think of it during a commercial break. But both of those cars they sold cheap fleet versions of that were front wheel drive and with nasty interiors. I'm like, this is not Jeep. It's kind of what they did to hurt their brand. But I think this is getting them back on track.

Jill Simonello (22:43)

Yes.

Tom Appel (22:43)

So overall good truck.

Jill Simonello (22:45)

Yeah, I would say overall good.

Tom Appel (22:46)

What's the competition?

Jill Simonello (22:49)

Oh, gosh. You asked me a question. I did not.

Tom Appel (22:51)

I'm thinking like Hyundai Santa Fe. Like the smallish mid size.

Jill Simonello (22:57)

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's two row.

Tom Appel (22:59)

Yeah.

Jill Simonello (23:00)

Whereas Santa Fe has a three row option.

Tom Appel (23:02)

Well, such that it is.

Jill Simonello (23:04)

I mean I can fit back there, but yeah, I mean small mid size is. Is where you're gonna find it.

Tom Appel (23:11)

And that is on sale now or soon. Maybe not now because we're only getting this low trim level, which is weird.

Jill Simonello (23:18)

Yeah, yeah.

Tom Appel (23:19)

So maybe soon. Yeah. All right, we are going to take a break. When we come back, we talk to Alex Nysak, the director of auto development testing at Consumer Reports.

Jill Simonello (23:28)

Awesome.

Tom Appel (23:29)

About their new top 10 list.

Jill Simonello (23:30)

Yes.

Tom Appel (23:30)

All right, stick around.

Alex Nysak (23:35)

Questions or comments?

Tom Appel (23:36)

Drop us a line at car stuff@consumerguide.com

Alex Nysak (23:40)

that's carstuff@consumerguide.com right now at the Home

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Alex Nysak (25:34)

welcome back to the Car Stuff Podcast.

Tom Appel (25:37)

And we're back. This is the consumer guide Car Stuff Podcast. I'm Tom. She is Jill. Hi Jill. Hello. I didn't talk about this yet, but I'm very excited. It's personal information. No place on an auto show?

Jill Simonello (25:47)

Yes. No, it does not have a place on an auto show.

Tom Appel (25:50)

We have a new refrigerator.

Jill Simonello (25:52)

Why is that exciting to you?

Tom Appel (25:53)

Ice cubes, mostly. Ice cubes.

Jill Simonello (25:56)

Self made or the machine mixed up?

Tom Appel (25:58)

No, but we lost the water in the door capability and then the ice wasn't being made because it wasn't getting cold enough anymore.

Jill Simonello (26:05)

Okay.

Tom Appel (26:06)

And I'm just a guy sitting in an office that isn't air conditioned without Diet Pepsi. And that's sort of a modern hell.

Jill Simonello (26:13)

Wait Your office isn't air conditioned.

Tom Appel (26:15)

We don't have air conditioning. Long story. We have. We have window units.

Jill Simonello (26:19)

What in the 1999.

Tom Appel (26:21)

Is that because we live in an old radiator home? We just never got around to doing it, and it would be very expensive to do. So every time we think we're gonna do it, the weather gets nice. We're like, we'll just live with the window units for a little while longer.

Jill Simonello (26:33)

I have lived in apartments in Chicago with window units.

Tom Appel (26:36)

Yeah.

Jill Simonello (26:38)

I do not live in them anymore. All right.

Tom Appel (26:39)

That's all I got.

Jill Simonello (26:40)

Got it.

Tom Appel (26:41)

All right. I'm just excited.

Jill Simonello (26:42)

I'm glad you have a new refrigerator and ice cubes.

Tom Appel (26:44)

Do you know what's in the fridge?

Jill Simonello (26:45)

Diet Pepsi.

Tom Appel (26:46)

Cans of Diet Pepsi.

Jill Simonello (26:47)

I'm like, Diet Pepsi, not the Bunch of Crunch or whatever it is you sent me a picture of yesterday. What in the heck was that?

Tom Appel (26:54)

I called it trail mix, but it was really just Reese's peanut butter cereal and Funyuns. Mini Funyuns.

Jill Simonello (27:00)

What?

Tom Appel (27:01)

Yeah. And I called it.

Jill Simonello (27:02)

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's even worse than what I thought. Funyuns and Reese's. Like, what world does, like, salty onion goodness and like, sweet crap go together?

Tom Appel (27:15)

My office.

Jill Simonello (27:16)

Oh, my God.

Tom Appel (27:17)

All right, we've wasted a lot of Alex's time.

Jill Simonello (27:18)

Sorry.

Tom Appel (27:19)

Yes, on the phone is Alex Nizek. He's director of auto testing. I'm sorry, Auto test development at Consumer Reports. Alex, how are you today?

Alex Nysak (27:26)

I'm doing really well. That was really fun to listen to.

Jill Simonello (27:29)

Sorry.

Tom Appel (27:30)

Super sorry about that.

Alex Nysak (27:32)

I'll say. I'm totally on board with new ice. Ice is great. I'm not sold on the trail mix.

Jill Simonello (27:38)

No.

Tom Appel (27:38)

I will share a picture of the trail mix later. You have a picture?

Jill Simonello (27:41)

I have a picture. It's hideous. It's even worse now that I know what it is.

Alex Nysak (27:46)

As a traditional trail mix fan, too, I'm not so sure.

Jill Simonello (27:48)

I thought it was like Fruit Loops and like, like Captain Crunch or something, but no. Funyuns.

Tom Appel (27:54)

Funy mini Funyuns. They come in a can like Pringles.

Alex Nysak (27:56)

Hey, props to being unique about it, though.

Tom Appel (27:59)

Thank you. I'm glad. I'm glad someone appreciates me.

Jill Simonello (28:02)

I do not.

Tom Appel (28:02)

Alex. How are you, sir?

Alex Nysak (28:04)

I am well. How are you both doing?

Tom Appel (28:06)

I think we're well.

Jill Simonello (28:07)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (28:08)

Before we get going, just remind people what Consumer Reports is because it's very different than other auto review sites.

Alex Nysak (28:14)

Yeah, sure. No, I appreciate that. Yeah. So we are, first and foremost, we're a non profit organization, so we're focused on testing, of course, and really advocating really for the consumer and what people are buying. And so a huge part of what we do is cars. We test other stuff too, like refrigerators and ice makers and what have you. I don't do that for the record. I don't know.

Tom Appel (28:36)

Do you test trails?

Jill Simonello (28:37)

No.

Tom Appel (28:38)

Or.

Alex Nysak (28:38)

Yeah. Well, maybe you. Maybe.

Tom Appel (28:41)

I don't know.

Alex Nysak (28:42)

We'll have to talk about that. But yeah, so we. We test a bunch of different stuff. Right. But cars is one of the biggest ones. And we're cars is a little separate from the rest of cr. CR is down in Yonkers, New York. But we're actually. The car testing is up in Colchester, Connecticut.

Tom Appel (28:58)

Okay.

Alex Nysak (28:59)

We have our own test facility, our own track, which is your, you know, car nerds like us. Having a track effectively in your backyard is a huge blessing.

Tom Appel (29:07)

And it's cool.

Alex Nysak (29:09)

It is very cool. Yeah. So one of the big differences when it comes to the cars is we buy everything that we test. So we do go and we'll rent cars from automakers, like press fleet stuff to get an early, you know, taste of what's coming out. But then ultimately, the cars that you see all the results on, whether it's online, on our site or in the magazine, that's all, you know, we went out to the dealership and we bought them just like you or I would in our normal life. Right. So that makes sure not only are we getting something that's representative of what, you know, everybody else is going to get, but we usually buy a middle of the road trim, you know, the volume meter bill versus like the totally decked out version. So just a couple of the differences that we do, but we also, not only are we doing the testing and all the fun stuff, but, you know, as we get into the top picks discussion, we also do a lot of survey work with not only CR members, but just like nationwide, talking to consumers, talking to people about their cars and stuff like that, and really working all of these different sources of information into ultimately what you see again on our site or in the magazine. So pretty. Pretty comprehensive.

Tom Appel (30:15)

Alex, remind us, how many members do you have?

Alex Nysak (30:18)

Yeah, a lot. I mean, over. We have over 3 million.

Tom Appel (30:24)

Wow.

Alex Nysak (30:25)

Yeah. So it's a lot of different. A lot of different people. A lot of people submitting information about their car, whether they buy it again or the problems they have, all this different stuff. So, yeah, a lot of people contributing. And that's really what makes it special. Right. Because we couldn't do it without people giving us that information. Information. So it's a very circular, I guess, in that way.

Tom Appel (30:45)

We're going to talk about your top 10 picks in a moment, but I wanted to ask you about one of the vehicles on there real quick. Earlier when we talked to Consumer Reports, like we've been doing this for about six years now, and we talked to you guys and you guys couldn't get a reading on Tesla and there was a couple of things going on there. One, I think you guys questioned the information you were getting from Tesla owners and then there just weren't that many that were responding. But now you have Tesla on your top 10 picks list.

Alex Nysak (31:10)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (31:10)

How's. How many, how many Tesla owners do you have and you feel really good about those. That information now?

Alex Nysak (31:16)

Yeah, I mean we. Yes. Ultimately you need a certain quantity of sample. Right. Or responses per vehicle for it to be statistically relevant.

Tom Appel (31:26)

Sure.

Alex Nysak (31:27)

Can't just base this off of a couple. Right. So you need a good number there. So we do have enough. Yeah, that was part of the problem is we weren't really able to. Or we had information, but basically their reliability, which is part of what we get from our survey, was not good enough, frankly.

Tom Appel (31:44)

Yeah.

Alex Nysak (31:44)

And, and we see that with EVs overall is that their reliability tends to be lower than your comparable gas or hybrid car. But you know, the, the trend, and I'm sure you've heard this before from us even elsewhere, is the longer a vehicle tends to be within a generation on the market, but you know, generally they're improving things, fixing issues, making it more refined over time. And so that seems to be what we're seeing with the Model Y, for example, where it's just that reliability is finally good enough, where it's a great car otherwise. Right. But now it kind of has that last piece of the puzzle to ultimately be a top pick.

Tom Appel (32:19)

I want to talk about your top 10 list, but I just want to point out that the Model Y right now is a deal used just.

Alex Nysak (32:24)

Yeah, a lot of EVs for that matter.

Tom Appel (32:26)

But yeah, exactly.

Alex Nysak (32:27)

For sure. Yeah, yeah, no doubt.

Tom Appel (32:29)

So you guys recently published, was it In February, your 20, 26 top 10. You walk us through that list.

Alex Nysak (32:35)

Yeah, sure. And. And I'll start by saying, just to clarify, you know, it, it, it encompasses all of that stuff that I was just talking about. Right.

Tom Appel (32:43)

Yeah.

Alex Nysak (32:43)

The fun stuff I get to do, testing them on the track and out on the roads and, and really how they are just as a vehicle in terms of performance, but then also that survey information. So the owner satisfaction basically Asking members, hey, would you buy this car again? How satisfied were you with it? And then also the reliability. Right. And reliability is, is so key and it's something that we can kind of uniquely do. And we ask car buyers, whether it's CR members or just national surveys, what is the most important thing to you when you're going to buy your next car? And on average it's either fuel economy or reliability. And those two things swap first and second place, you know, depending on the time of year you ask. Basically so super important. So we work those three things in satisfaction, reliability, performance, and then also we take into some account some key safety information and basically like put that into the blender and that's how you get your overall score and that drives what's in the top picks. So a lot of different things going into there. But yeah, so we have. Do you want me to just run rapid fire through the list if you

Tom Appel (33:49)

don't mind, or I can ask you about each other?

Alex Nysak (33:52)

Yeah, yeah. What's up? We'll, I'll run through them and then we can come back and talk about some of them.

Tom Appel (33:55)

Sounds good.

Alex Nysak (33:57)

Civic, Camry, Crosstrek, Forester, Model Y, Toyota Grand Highlander, Lexus NX, BMW X5, Ford Maverick and Ford F150. So quite a varied list.

Jill Simonello (34:13)

Yeah, very varied list. Of the picks on here, you know, is there one that would like stood out above like the rest of the vehicles?

Alex Nysak (34:24)

Oh, great question. There's a few. Which is like the worst answer and difficult car person answer.

Tom Appel (34:32)

Right.

Alex Nysak (34:32)

Well, I can't choose honestly, like if I really had to pick one, the Civic stands out to me not only

Tom Appel (34:39)

because I'm just going to say heck yeah.

Alex Nysak (34:42)

Yeah, sweet.

Tom Appel (34:43)

So it's so reliably and historically a great car and I just feel good and comforted seeing it on this list.

Alex Nysak (34:50)

It's great. And the cool thing is, and this goes for a lot of the cars on here, but the Civic specifically, it's all the versions we tested. So it's the regular gas powered one, if that's your thing, the hybrid, which is fantastic. And then also the si. So there is a manual transmission car on our list.

Jill Simonello (35:07)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (35:07)

Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. Yeah.

Jill Simonello (35:09)

And the automotive world rejoices.

Alex Nysak (35:11)

Yes, exactly one, one, you know, save the manual at a time. Yeah. So I don't know, it's just cars are expensive these days, right. This fifty thousand dollar transaction price, the Civics starting at half that. Right. And the hybrid, it's one of those cars that it handles really well. Any of the versions of the Civics handle really well, which I appreciate. It's small, it's fuel efficient. The hybrid in particular makes me laugh because you can go, let's say, drive it spiritedly around and you're still getting like 35, 40 miles per gallon, which I think is just awesome, right? It is, yeah. So Civic really stands out. But beyond that, I'm going to jump to the opposite end of the list because the Ford F150 also stands out. And also, let me, let me say I'm jumping around a little bit. But what makes, again, Consumer Reports a little different in the context of this list is most of the other lists that you're going to see out there from other publications, what have you are usually vehicles that came out that year.

Tom Appel (36:11)

Year.

Alex Nysak (36:11)

Right. So it's like the best car of 26 and it's models that came out for 20, 26.

Tom Appel (36:16)

Right.

Alex Nysak (36:16)

These are not, these are cars. They could have come out, you know, fresh in 26, but they're also cars that we tested before. So they're just good cars in general. Right. So the F150 is one of those because it's certainly deep in its current generation, but similar to the Model Y, its reliability is ticked up over time where we can recommend it. And I think that's great because historically we haven't seen reliability in the full size truck category be all that strong. But it's a huge, you know, part of the market and people are buying these things left and right. So we, it's nice to be able to point people in a direction of a car that, hey, we know you're interested in a full size truck. Here's at least a reliable option within that category.

Tom Appel (36:58)

I have a question.

Alex Nysak (36:59)

I'm pretty excited about that.

Tom Appel (37:00)

Alex, I have a question about this category.

Alex Nysak (37:02)

Yeah, yeah, sure.

Tom Appel (37:03)

Did you see the F150 owners really strongly preferring their vehicle? And here's why I ask. Like all the pickup trucks, trucks, the big pickup trucks have really interesting strengths. And I think that if you go with the GMC or the Chevy, you've got powertrain smoothness, sometimes fuel economy and ride quality. And then you got the Ram for the crazy interiors. And then the F150, I think, always cleans up for like just kind of sense of control. Logical. I love the handling of the F150.

Jill Simonello (37:32)

It's also great for petite drivers.

Tom Appel (37:33)

Yeah. Is it?

Jill Simonello (37:34)

It is.

Tom Appel (37:35)

But, but do you guys rank these? Do you have any sense of that and, and do you run into that wall where people are Just super brand loyal in this CA category.

Alex Nysak (37:43)

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's. It happens, right? It's hard to say, I guess, from the information that we get, how brand loyalty might be influencing things. But the. The nice thing is we do see that in general, people are pretty happy with their trucks. I'm actually flipping through some of the information as we're talking here and whether you're looking at Silverado, RAM F150, they're all pretty close in terms of the owner satisfaction, which is pretty good. 64 out of 165. That kind of area, which is. Which is decent. So. So yeah, it's a category where I think anecdotally, you and I, we, you know, the three of us, we know that truck buyers tend to be more conservative in their. In that, you know, class. And if you're an F1, you're a Ford driver, like, you're just going to keep buying Fords. Right. You're rarely are you conquesting one person from one brand to the next. But the point is, Ford F150 sells a ton. Right. So it's nice to see that the reliability is going up. That means more people are going to be driving a better car.

Tom Appel (38:44)

Yep. And then at the opposite side of the size spectrum there, you've got Maverick on the list.

Alex Nysak (38:49)

Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

Jill Simonello (38:50)

Little petite check.

Alex Nysak (38:52)

Yeah, yeah. Really quite the opposite, for sure. Yeah. The Maverick's cool and it's been on our list before. It's funny because the F150 is what people buy, but the Maverick's probably what most people need. Right. In Terrace,

Tom Appel (39:05)

we just had that conversation. Buy the vehicle you need 50 weeks a year.

Alex Nysak (39:08)

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Rent the other one for the two weeks. Y. Yeah, People don't necessarily do that. That's okay. I get it, I get it. But anyway, yeah, the Maverick, what I love about it this year, or recently anyway, is they finally added all wheel drive to the hybrid version.

Jill Simonello (39:24)

Yes.

Alex Nysak (39:26)

I think that was a critical, critical move. Right. We know people want both of those things, so it's nice to finally have that. So. But yeah, great truck. You don't really have to put up with, you know, the poor fuel economy associated with a larger truck rides better. Easier to get in and out of all that stuff. So pretty nice to have it here, too.

Tom Appel (39:44)

The Maverick has taken an interesting place in the automotive journalism world. I think it is replaced and we've needed a replacement for a long time since the Jetta diesel went away.

Jill Simonello (39:53)

I was gonna say for the brown wagon with a Manual transmission and all wheel drive.

Tom Appel (39:58)

Yeah, yeah. This is the new journalist car and we know that folks from Ride and Drives, Larry Veliquitt at Automotive News, they all have Mavericks.

Alex Nysak (40:07)

Yeah, yeah. You see them a lot. You know, the only thing that's a little, I don't know if disappointing is the right word, but certainly interesting to follow is just the starting price. I don't know if you remember right, 20 grand. 20 grand, right. And they did, they did it right. But I just checked, I'm looking at it now. It starts at 28 now. So, you know, maybe people just weren't buying the $20,000 version or I'm not too sure but.

Tom Appel (40:33)

Well, we had. Do you remember when that launched? And I'm sure you do. It launched right as Covid was was. And the chip shortage was ravishing supply of vehicles. And I knew people who wanted Mavericks.

Jill Simonello (40:44)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (40:44)

And they could not get them and dealers could not answer questions about delivering them. And we all know really that Ford just sort of like we could sell anything we build now. We're not going to sell 20 grand pickup trucks.

Alex Nysak (40:54)

Yeah. There's just no margin there. There's no margin, I would imagine. Yeah.

Tom Appel (40:58)

And they've since raised the price a bunch.

Jill Simonello (41:01)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (41:02)

So 40%. Nice.

Alex Nysak (41:04)

Still working for them. Yep.

Tom Appel (41:06)

Oh man. Talk to us about the Lexus nx. I'm interested in what you guys, what you guys find worth noting in a luxury vehicle.

Alex Nysak (41:14)

Yeah, yeah, good question. The, the nx, it's been on the list before. I mean, of course Lexus kind of being in that Toyota family. Right. They're winning with that reliability. So that's, that's helping as we see the reliability there with the nx. Beyond that, three versions of it actually are included here. Right. Gas version, hybrid version and plug in hybrid. Toyota's plug in hybrids tend to be quite good, you know, in terms of decent range and good power from the electric powertrain. So you can kind of reasonably drive them around in their electric mode without having the engine pop on and off all the time, which makes it a little more luxurious while you're doing that. Yeah. And I think it's a pretty well rounded package. Right. It's. If you want something that's going to handle, you know, if handling is your, your priority, for example, like BMW X3 is probably going to be the better choice, something like that. But it's going to be fuel efficient, it's going to be easy to live with, comfortable looks pretty good. So. And then again that, that reliability, fuel economy, it's hitting Those marks pretty good. So yeah, been on the list before and here it is again.

Tom Appel (42:22)

I've long argued that no Lexus crossover is actually sporty. They look sporty and you can buy f sport versions of them.

Alex Nysak (42:28)

I don't disagree.

Tom Appel (42:29)

But ultimately they're not really sporty but they are incredibly refined and quiet and well screwed together.

Alex Nysak (42:34)

Yeah, yeah, interesting. We drove it's not on this list but the one of the more intriguing ones was the Lexus TX500H. Oh yeah, yeah. Like had the adaptive suspension in the rear steer and all this stuff and you know, we put it on our track and it was at least surprising, let me tell you that. Would I call it sporty on its own? Maybe not. But I mean kind of by the fact that it's a three row family suv. But you know, it performed better than I expected, let me put it that way.

Tom Appel (43:06)

I actually just test drove that exact vehicle a couple of weeks ago and no, not sporty. But would I take it on a cross country trip? Heck yeah.

Alex Nysak (43:14)

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, definitely.

Tom Appel (43:15)

And get the mileage too. Alex, we are flat out of time. How can people get a closer look at this list? List?

Alex Nysak (43:21)

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Just head to consumer reports.org cars and you're going to find all of the latest and greatest car stuff right there on our site. And the top picks is is one of the featured things right on there. So you really can't miss it.

Tom Appel (43:34)

Well, cool. We will link to that too from our show notes. Alex, thank you so much for your time today.

Alex Nysak (43:38)

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Tom Appel (43:40)

All right, that was Alex Nysak, director of test development at Consumer Reports. We're going to take a break and come back to quiz time. Quiz time.

Alex Nysak (43:51)

Questions or comments? Drop us a line@car stuffonsumerguide.com that's carstuff@consumerguide.com

Strayer University Announcer (44:01)

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Alex Nysak (45:09)

Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.

Tom Appel (45:11)

And we're back. This is the consumer Guy. Car Stuff Podcast. I'm Tom. I just got a new refrigerator. And she is Jill.

Jill Simonello (45:18)

I did not get a new refrigerator.

Tom Appel (45:20)

What did you just do with your microphone?

Jill Simonello (45:21)

Sorry, I was taking a picture.

Tom Appel (45:23)

Oh, of the donuts?

Jill Simonello (45:25)

No, of my little Brute Squad logo. Sorry. Putting something in my stories.

Tom Appel (45:30)

All right, all right, fine. We have a quiz coming up.

Jill Simonello (45:34)

I think you lowered my mic to take the picture of the donuts.

Tom Appel (45:37)

I don't know.

Jill Simonello (45:37)

I'm blaming you.

Tom Appel (45:38)

I don't know.

Jill Simonello (45:39)

I'm blaming you.

Tom Appel (45:40)

So you're not happy about the donuts?

Jill Simonello (45:41)

Well, I'm not unhappy about the donuts. I just don't want the big Apple thing.

Tom Appel (45:46)

This thing here that has its own gravity is the apple fritter.

Jill Simonello (45:48)

I don't think it's bleeding.

Tom Appel (45:49)

I don't think it's bleeding.

Jill Simonello (45:51)

Bleeding apple fritter.

Tom Appel (45:52)

I brought these down to visit with Patty Vasquez at wcpt. Was that last week? She loved the apple fritter. Loved it. That's the cinnamon swirl.

Jill Simonello (46:01)

Cinnamon is totally.

Tom Appel (46:02)

And this is orange.

Jill Simonello (46:04)

Not orange.

Tom Appel (46:05)

Really?

Jill Simonello (46:06)

No. Cinnamon, yes. Cherry cake. Blueberry cake. I will always opt for those.

Tom Appel (46:14)

I don't know when they do cherry. That's like a spring thing for some reason.

Jill Simonello (46:17)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (46:17)

So like a July thing. They do cherry.

Jill Simonello (46:19)

They do.

Tom Appel (46:20)

They do cherry.

Jill Simonello (46:20)

So keep your eyes out.

Tom Appel (46:22)

They didn't advertise the orange. I just found it there.

Jill Simonello (46:24)

But anyway, because nobody else wanted it,

Tom Appel (46:26)

the clock is ticking. Okay, you have some social media stuff?

Jill Simonello (46:30)

I do nine seconds. You can follow me on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, Bluesky, Threads, Facebook. I don't know all the things LinkedIn I forget. And I'm being repetitive. Illsiminello. And you can find my hashtag Kart a Jour. I drop new videos on YouTube and TikTok every day for your daily dose of drive.

Tom Appel (46:56)

And if you have a Leap motor C10 and you live in New Zealand, drop us a line.

Jill Simonello (47:00)

Yes. Or if you have another cool car that you want to talk about, drop us a Line.

Tom Appel (47:04)

Any car.

Jill Simonello (47:05)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (47:05)

If you are proud of your car, take a picture, we'll talk about it.

Jill Simonello (47:07)

Yes.

Tom Appel (47:08)

I think that's a great thing.

Jill Simonello (47:09)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (47:10)

People should just take pictures of their car if they like them.

Jill Simonello (47:12)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (47:13)

And we'll give them a shout out.

Jill Simonello (47:14)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (47:14)

Let's start that now.

Jill Simonello (47:15)

Yeah. And speaking of, you didn't give your social media yet.

Tom Appel (47:18)

Car guy, Tom. Twitter and Twitter X and Blue Sky.

Jill Simonello (47:21)

Yes.

Tom Appel (47:22)

Also Facebook. On Facebook, you can keep track of the radio stuff. I do, because Steven, Johnny and Patty Vasquez do a lot of promoting of their guests.

Jill Simonello (47:30)

Okay.

Tom Appel (47:31)

All right. And as does Nick Dagilio.

Jill Simonello (47:33)

Yes.

Tom Appel (47:34)

That's this week. There's a new Nick Dagilio podcast out there. I'm on it. We should talk about that or people should listen to it. Yes, that's what I meant to say. Are you ready for the.

Jill Simonello (47:44)

For the quiz?

Tom Appel (47:45)

Yes.

Jill Simonello (47:45)

I'm never ready. And you've already essentially told me I'm not going to like it.

Tom Appel (47:49)

You're not going to like it. I am, and that's what's important.

Jill Simonello (47:52)

Producer Randy is going to like it.

Tom Appel (47:53)

I think he will.

Jill Simonello (47:54)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (47:54)

Consumer guide, Car stuff, power podcast quiz. 322. Though it's not really 322. I don't know. Hey, do we have my Best Buy list coming up soon?

Jill Simonello (48:04)

No.

Tom Appel (48:05)

On the schedule.

Jill Simonello (48:06)

No, we need to get that in.

Tom Appel (48:08)

Oh, I thought it was scheduled.

Jill Simonello (48:09)

You know, it was supposed to be scheduled, and then we had a kerfuffle with the schedule and it got unscheduled.

Tom Appel (48:15)

Oh, okay. We got to get that scheduled again. Today's topic is what was it?

Jill Simonello (48:19)

Oh, great.

Tom Appel (48:20)

That's it. What was it?

Jill Simonello (48:21)

What was it?

Tom Appel (48:21)

I'm gonna give you a model from a dead brand, and you have to tell me what it was.

Jill Simonello (48:25)

Okay.

Tom Appel (48:26)

It's very simple. Five questions total, plus a bonus question always related to the topic of the day.

Jill Simonello (48:31)

And what do you mean by what was it?

Tom Appel (48:33)

I'm gonna tell you now.

Jill Simonello (48:35)

Okay.

Tom Appel (48:35)

I'm gonna give you a car model.

Jill Simonello (48:37)

Okay. Car model.

Tom Appel (48:38)

And I'm gonna give you possible categories that that model would fit into.

Jill Simonello (48:41)

Okay.

Tom Appel (48:42)

Are you ready?

Jill Simonello (48:43)

Okay.

Tom Appel (48:43)

Yeah. Plus a third choice. That makes no sense contextually, but I just felt like doing it. You'll see what I mean in a moment.

Jill Simonello (48:49)

Okay.

Tom Appel (48:50)

The Oldsmobile Intrigue.

Jill Simonello (48:52)

Okay.

Tom Appel (48:52)

Oldsmobile Intrigue. What was it? Was it a midsize sedan? Was it a compact crossover? Or was it a prune juice? Prune juice based cocktail served at Guy Fieri's Vegas kitchen and bar?

Jill Simonello (49:03)

I think it was that one yeah.

Tom Appel (49:05)

Oldsmill Intrigue. You know what's funny about the Intrigue? Sipowitz drove one on NYPD Blue. You see it in one scene, in one episode, and it's the world's most obvious product placement, but there it was. Sipowitz, Ultraville. Intrigue.

Jill Simonello (49:19)

I'm gonna say midsize sedan.

Tom Appel (49:21)

It was.

Jill Simonello (49:21)

Okay. Yeah, I'm like, I don't. I don't remember it, but I don't remember SUV's being a thing. Probably when that was out.

Tom Appel (49:27)

It's something that would have been called Cutlass 10 years earlier.

Jill Simonello (49:30)

Okay, yeah.

Tom Appel (49:31)

All right, you've got one point. You're on the board.

Jill Simonello (49:33)

Okay.

Tom Appel (49:34)

The Geostorm. What was it? Was it a sporty coupe, a tiny suv, or a Mexican telenovela?

Jill Simonello (49:45)

I really wanted to be the telenovela, but I feel like it was a sporty coupe.

Tom Appel (49:51)

It was.

Jill Simonello (49:52)

Wasn't that, like, on the same platform as the Cavalier or something?

Tom Appel (49:56)

No.

Jill Simonello (49:56)

Okay, never mind.

Tom Appel (49:57)

No, no. Who was. Who built this? It wasn't Suzuki. I. Anyway, was it g. No, no, no, no. Not the Hatsu. No, Suzuki. I'm forgetting who it was. I'll get it in a moment. But anyway, I'll get a little thing from Sam here in a moment.

Jill Simonello (50:11)

I know. I'm like. Maybe I could Google it really quick.

Tom Appel (50:14)

Don't worry about it. Right. Wait, did you say sporty coupe?

Jill Simonello (50:18)

I did.

Tom Appel (50:18)

You've got two points. You're doing fine. Are you ready? Plymouth Horizon.

Jill Simonello (50:23)

Okay.

Tom Appel (50:24)

Was it a compact car, a subcompact two box economy car, or a Plasmatics cover band? Do you remember the Plasmatics?

Jill Simonello (50:33)

No, I do not.

Tom Appel (50:34)

Wendy O. Williams. She was a very chesty lit singer that tended to perform naked. If you were a guy from the 80s, you remember the Plasmatics.

Jill Simonello (50:42)

Okay.

Tom Appel (50:42)

And you didn't care about the music. You just wanted to look at the album cover.

Jill Simonello (50:46)

I'll just nod and smile. I'm sure my husband knows what that is. Okay, so what was now Plymouth Horizon? And what were my options?

Tom Appel (50:54)

Compact car, subcompact, two box economy car, or Plasmatics Cover bag.

Jill Simonello (51:00)

What the heck's a two box?

Tom Appel (51:01)

You're not familiar with the term two box?

Jill Simonello (51:02)

No.

Tom Appel (51:03)

The Rabbit. The Golf was among the first two box designs. It was basically a hatchback.

Jill Simonello (51:10)

Okay.

Tom Appel (51:11)

Two door or four door, but you had basically a box with a. With a hood.

Jill Simonello (51:16)

Okay.

Tom Appel (51:16)

It was a term that was very popular at the time because that design was new.

Jill Simonello (51:20)

Got it. So two box or what was the first option?

Tom Appel (51:23)

Compact car or subcompact? Two box. Basically, what became the Golf was the two Box design.

Jill Simonello (51:30)

Right. So I'm not familiar with this vehicle. I'll go with two box.

Tom Appel (51:36)

Yes. The Horizon was actually one of the first two box subcompacts in the US really kind of groundbreaking. It was based on a Simca design. Simcoe was a French company company that Chrysler owned.

Jill Simonello (51:46)

Okay.

Tom Appel (51:46)

At the time. But they'd actually preceded the Rabbit to the US There was also the Ford Fiesta. Very similar. So you have three.

Jill Simonello (51:56)

I. I can't believe it.

Tom Appel (51:57)

All right, are you ready?

Jill Simonello (52:01)

Oh, sorry. I was still looking at. This is a. Was it rebadged? Isuzu Impulse was the Geostorm.

Tom Appel (52:07)

There you go.

Jill Simonello (52:08)

I got. I got distracted.

Tom Appel (52:09)

I forgot Isuzu. Yes, that's it. Because most of the Geos were Isuzu's or Suzuki's.

Jill Simonello (52:14)

Okay.

Tom Appel (52:15)

And one was a Toyota.

Jill Simonello (52:16)

Okay.

Tom Appel (52:17)

All right. I forgot to do something here. Oldsmobile wrapped up in 2024. The intrigue was often offered between 98 and 2002. Geo wrapped things up in 1997. The Storm was available from 1990 to 1993. And the Horizon. That's wrong. Oh, no. Plymouth wrapped things up in 2001.

Jill Simonello (52:37)

Right.

Tom Appel (52:37)

Right before I got into this business. And the Horizon was wrong. From 1978 to 1990. All right.

Jill Simonello (52:43)

Okay.

Tom Appel (52:43)

This one. You know the Dahatsu Rocky?

Jill Simonello (52:46)

I've never heard of this.

Tom Appel (52:48)

Really?

Jill Simonello (52:48)

No.

Tom Appel (52:48)

Never heard of it?

Jill Simonello (52:49)

No.

Tom Appel (52:50)

Was the Dahatsu Rocky a tiny convertible suv, a compact all wheel drive wagon, or a popular dessert item at P F Chang's? By the way, P F Chang's always funny.

Jill Simonello (53:04)

I have a very funny story about P F Chang's.

Tom Appel (53:07)

Do you? Everyone does. P F Chang's is always funny.

Jill Simonello (53:09)

Yes. Yeah, it has to do with it.

Tom Appel (53:11)

It's like umlauts. Umlauts are always funny.

Jill Simonello (53:13)

It has to do with their lettuce wraps.

Tom Appel (53:17)

Lettuce wraps.

Jill Simonello (53:17)

I know, right?

Tom Appel (53:19)

The crap Americans will buy.

Jill Simonello (53:22)

Yes, but I'm gonna. What were the options again?

Tom Appel (53:27)

The Daihatsu Rock. A tiny convertible suv, a compact all wheel drive wagon, or a popular dessert item at P F Chang's.

Jill Simonello (53:35)

I'm gonna go with the compact wagon.

Tom Appel (53:37)

No, it was a tiny little crossover. Tiny little suv. Do you remember the.

Jill Simonello (53:41)

You said convertible suv.

Tom Appel (53:42)

Yes.

Jill Simonello (53:43)

Wow.

Tom Appel (53:43)

Yeah.

Jill Simonello (53:43)

Okay.

Tom Appel (53:44)

Yeah. Top. Canvas top. You could pop it down. Do you remember the Chevy Tracker? Tracker. The Geo Tracker or the Suzuki Sidekick? It was in league with those.

Jill Simonello (53:52)

Okay. I saw a Geo Tracker over the weekend.

Tom Appel (53:54)

Did you really?

Jill Simonello (53:54)

I really did.

Tom Appel (53:55)

Now, the Geo Tracker grew over time and they became, you know, full body, four door SUVs. But, yeah.

Jill Simonello (54:02)

Okay.

Tom Appel (54:03)

All right. You've gotten four right. Did you know you got that one wrong?

Jill Simonello (54:06)

I got that one wrong. I got three, but I've already won. So I can bomb the rest of the quiz if I want to.

Tom Appel (54:12)

The Renault Le Car.

Jill Simonello (54:14)

Le Car.

Tom Appel (54:15)

I bet you Randy meant to buy one at some point. Lots of people roughly our age. Like, like I need one of those.

Jill Simonello (54:22)

Okay.

Tom Appel (54:22)

All right. Was it a tiny front wheel drive Pickup, a subcompact 2 box economy car, or a candy bar from Sweden made with goat's milk?

Jill Simonello (54:33)

I have a problem with something being called Le Car being a pickup truck.

Tom Appel (54:38)

Wow, that's astute.

Jill Simonello (54:42)

So I'm gonna go with the other option. Not the third one, the middle one, the subcompact.

Tom Appel (54:46)

Two bucks. Economy car. Yeah. It was tiny and it was available with a canvas roof.

Jill Simonello (54:50)

Okay.

Tom Appel (54:51)

So not a true converter. Well, like the, the Fiat 500.

Jill Simonello (54:53)

Okay.

Tom Appel (54:53)

I had like a peel back roof.

Jill Simonello (54:55)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (54:55)

But it was a delightful little car. And then in Europe there was something called the R5, which was a hot version of it.

Jill Simonello (55:00)

Okay.

Tom Appel (55:00)

Turbocharged, showed up in Bond films.

Jill Simonello (55:02)

Okay.

Tom Appel (55:03)

Yeah. So Renault backed out of the US in 1987. Oh, no. I think. Is that right? Yeah, I think that's about right. Right. And the car was available from 1976 to 1983.

Jill Simonello (55:17)

Okay.

Tom Appel (55:17)

There you go. You've seen them and they say Le Car on the rocker panel. There's a sticker.

Jill Simonello (55:23)

Okay. Yeah, lookar.

Tom Appel (55:25)

Yeah, it was the R5 in the rest of the world, but here or not the R5. The Renault 5.

Jill Simonello (55:29)

Okay.

Tom Appel (55:29)

R5 was a sporty version. All right. Nice job. You got four or three?

Jill Simonello (55:34)

Four.

Tom Appel (55:34)

Four. All right.

Jill Simonello (55:35)

Yes.

Tom Appel (55:36)

I don't know how we haven't done this one yet.

Jill Simonello (55:38)

For a bonus.

Tom Appel (55:39)

For a bonus question. But we're doing it now. And that's Subway in India.

Jill Simonello (55:44)

Okay. Subway is in India.

Tom Appel (55:48)

It is.

Jill Simonello (55:48)

Okay.

Tom Appel (55:49)

Although not as much as you'd think. How many Subways do you think there are on the planet? 5,000 37,000.

Jill Simonello (55:58)

Okay.

Tom Appel (55:58)

How many do you think there are in the us? The correct answer is too many. But I'm looking for a number.

Jill Simonello (56:02)

5,000?

Tom Appel (56:03)

20,000.

Jill Simonello (56:05)

Just figured I'd go with it again. Okay.

Tom Appel (56:07)

So on a per person basis, there aren't nearly as many in India, what with them having more people.

Jill Simonello (56:12)

Correct.

Tom Appel (56:13)

By about a billion. How many do you think there are in India?

Jill Simonello (56:17)

10.

Tom Appel (56:18)

1000. Without going over, I have four menu items here from Subway in India. You have to tell me which one is the fake.

Jill Simonello (56:26)

Okay. Okay.

Tom Appel (56:27)

And then I want to Talk about one of them.

Jill Simonello (56:28)

Okay.

Tom Appel (56:29)

All right. The corn and peas sub, the Mexican patty sub, the tandoori tofu wrap, and whether or not that's real. I want that. Or the spicy sweet potato flatbread. One of those fake.

Jill Simonello (56:46)

I feel like the bottom two could be real. Read to me. The top two again, the corn and

Tom Appel (56:52)

peas sub and the Mexican patty sub.

Jill Simonello (56:58)

Huh? Yeah. I feel like one of the top two doesn't sit well with me.

Tom Appel (57:07)

Might not sit well with you after you eat it.

Jill Simonello (57:09)

Fair point. I'm gonna go with the corn and peas.

Tom Appel (57:12)

Is the fake? Yeah, no, it's real, and it looks good. I had to check this out.

Jill Simonello (57:18)

I'm just trying to figure out how you could have corn and peas on a sub without it being too dirty.

Tom Appel (57:22)

Served like a salad. So it looks like egg salad on a bun. It looks very good. Obviously, these are prep pictures, but.

Jill Simonello (57:29)

Right.

Tom Appel (57:29)

I'm very interested in that. That's real. The Mexican patty sub, unbelievably, is real. Interesting that you can use the word Mexican to sell food in India.

Jill Simonello (57:38)

Right.

Tom Appel (57:39)

The only place in the world where they scoff at the idea that Mexican food is hot. You don't know hot.

Jill Simonello (57:44)

Yeah, that's fair.

Tom Appel (57:45)

We're in India.

Jill Simonello (57:45)

Food is not hot.

Tom Appel (57:46)

Tandoori tofu ra wrap is real. The spicy sweet potato flatbread is fake.

Jill Simonello (57:51)

Interesting. Yeah, that. That I could see as being real, because I know a lot of India is highly veg.

Tom Appel (57:58)

They are.

Jill Simonello (57:59)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (57:59)

And they have a very specific veg menu when you walk in. And I think some of the subways don't actually sell any meat at all. And if they do, it's just chicken.

Jill Simonello (58:07)

Right.

Tom Appel (58:07)

So there you have it. Only a thousand subways in India.

Jill Simonello (58:11)

Okay.

Tom Appel (58:12)

Yeah. It would take a very long time for everyone in India to go to one.

Jill Simonello (58:15)

Yes. So which one of these did you want to talk about?

Tom Appel (58:17)

Oh, that was it. The corn and pea sub.

Jill Simonello (58:19)

Okay.

Tom Appel (58:20)

Because it looks good and it's weird. I've never heard of that combination before, but why wouldn't that be yummy?

Jill Simonello (58:25)

No, but, you know, I mean, what I was thinking of, like, a curried corn and peas just kind of dripping all over the bun. That's what was in my brain.

Tom Appel (58:31)

No, it sounds like a mess.

Jill Simonello (58:32)

And that sounds like a mess, which was like, it can't possibly be real.

Tom Appel (58:36)

It's not a mess.

Jill Simonello (58:36)

Okay.

Tom Appel (58:37)

Did we talk about the donuts? We did on air. Did you complain already?

Jill Simonello (58:41)

No, I just said I want the cinnamon.

Tom Appel (58:44)

Oh, okay.

Jill Simonello (58:45)

You can have the apple fritter thing.

Tom Appel (58:47)

The apple fritter which is gigantic.

Jill Simonello (58:48)

It's huge, and it's oozing.

Tom Appel (58:49)

But producer Randy might want the fritter.

Jill Simonello (58:52)

It's oozing.

Tom Appel (58:52)

And then there's the orange donut, which I'm equally interested in. So are you taking pictures?

Jill Simonello (58:57)

Yeah, I took a picture of the ooze.

Tom Appel (58:59)

All right, so we'll be doing the Consumer Guide Best Buy list at some point.

Jill Simonello (59:03)

Yes, we will.

Tom Appel (59:04)

Actually. We have to do that, too, because it's always our most important popular episode.

Jill Simonello (59:07)

Okay. I. We. You know what? Before we leave the studio, we will get it on the calendar.

Tom Appel (59:12)

So, funny thing, little Consumer Guide history. A little bit like Consumer Reports.

Jill Simonello (59:17)

Okay.

Tom Appel (59:17)

We used to do other products way back when. When I started consumer guide in 2002.

Jill Simonello (59:24)

Okay.

Tom Appel (59:24)

We had a division that did lawnmowers, computers, cell phones, and all that stuff. And ultimately we simply couldn't find the revenue in it.

Jill Simonello (59:31)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (59:32)

And part of the problem, too. This is interesting, and I think this would be difficult. I'm sure it's difficult for Consumer Reports. Things like lawnmowers and cell phones don't have model years. So the cycle at which you need to update them can be accelerated to the point of being crazy.

Jill Simonello (59:47)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (59:47)

And then people just like Apple sometimes does almost no announcement of an update of something concerned, and then you're behind the. You're just behind the schedule.

Jill Simonello (59:56)

Yeah.

Tom Appel (59:56)

Cars are so much easier.

Jill Simonello (59:58)

Most cars, Tesla, for example, not easier because they don't do model years.

Tom Appel (60:04)

They don't do model years, and they just make changes randomly.

Jill Simonello (60:06)

Yeah. And they'll do over the year updates and that. But they call the year that is produced the model year.

Tom Appel (60:12)

Yeah.

Jill Simonello (60:13)

So. But, but you could have like a 2025 that has XYZ and a 2025 that has PDQ.

Tom Appel (60:19)

All right, guess what we did.

Jill Simonello (60:21)

We had a great episode.

Tom Appel (60:22)

We burned through an hour, baby.

Jill Simonello (60:24)

We did big.

Tom Appel (60:24)

Thanks to Al of Consumer Reports. Thank you, Jill.

Jill Simonello (60:28)

Yes.

Tom Appel (60:29)

Thanks to producer Randy and the good folks here at talkzone. Let's talk more about cars again next week. Next week. Remember to check us out@consumerguide.com the car

Alex Nysak (60:40)

stuff podcast is produced by J Turn Media.

Tom Appel (60:43)

To advertise on the show, please drop us a line at carstuff@consumerguide.com.