Lucid Gravity Review, Chinese Carmaker Builds in Spain, Chicago Drive-In Magic

Summary

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Car Stuff Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Lucid Gravity Review, Chinese Carmaker Builds in Spain, Chicago Drive-In Magic
Date: July 28, 2026
Hosts: Tom Appel & Jill Ciminillo
Guest: Jamie Butters (Host of Auto Town)

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Overview

This episode blends sharp automotive analysis with personal anecdotes and industry insights. The hosts review the new Lucid Gravity electric SUV, discuss Honda and Acura's upcoming product changes, break down Ford’s controversial partnership with China’s Geely in Spain, talk about car affordability, and finish with a lively chat about Chicago’s legendary Superdawg drive-in.

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Key Discussions and Insights

1. Industry Updates & New Model Rumors (01:30–10:35)

• Range Rover GT Rumors: New sleeker, potentially lower-priced (starting < $100K) Range Rover model could compete with sedans. [04:00–06:24]
  • Tom: "If this thing is lower, looks like a sedan, costs less—will it still be a good off-roader?"
• Honda/Acura Strategy Shifts: Acura RDX and Honda Ridgeline going on hiatus for 1–2 years, likely to free up resources after Honda paused a costly EV program. [06:53–10:35]
  • Jill: "I think this is a cost-cutting savings kind of a lifeline for them...they have all this money invested somewhere else..."
  • Tom: "Delaying the launch of a product by 18 or 24 months...results in money savings, but you’re also not generating revenue."

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2. Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid Mini-Review (10:35–12:50)

• Noted for high MPG (49–55), excellent build quality, but criticized for value due to rising base price (~$35K–$40K). Top resale expected. [11:23–12:18]
  • Tom: "Hard not to be impressed by the build quality, the ride and handling, and my freaking fuel economy...as high as 55, as low as 49mpg!"

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3. Lucid Gravity In-Depth Review (12:50–22:31)

Vehicle Overview (15:03)

• Midsize, luxury electric SUV. Prices: $81,550–$141,550, high range (337–450 miles), high power, premium interior.
• Jill and Tom share personal glitches:
  • Jill’s vehicle required a software hard reset; no sound from speakers or systems. [14:12]
  • Tom’s test car self-locked with keys inside (known bug) and twice lost throttle due to (false) "hood open" warning. [17:36–18:37]
  • Quote: “Trying to do something like adjust the outside mirrors made me suicidal because I forgot how I did that…gotta go into the touchscreen and find this and then use controls on the steering wheel.” – Tom (15:03)
• Usability concerns: Basic functions like opening the glovebox and adjusting mirrors require deep menu digging in the touchscreen interface. [15:51–17:22]
  • Jill: "I cannot freaking figure out how to open the glove box...there is no actual button to open this."
  • Cop let them off with a warning after the confusion.
• Driving Impressions:
  • Smooth, quick, quiet, family-friendly. Large glass roof impresses some, annoys others. [20:12–21:08]
  • Quote: “You also kind of get a vibe of this being an exotic vehicle just a little bit, which is kind of cool.” – Tom (22:31)
• Business Context:
  • Lucid still financially unstable; Gravity sales are modest (about half the Air’s volume), total company sales still only 16,000/year. [19:33]
  • Lucid needs a “volume” model, like the upcoming Cosmos or Earth, potentially targeting $50K price point. [20:13]
• Final Thoughts:
  • Jill: "I think it is a little bit higher priced, but you get a lot of luxury...a viable EV for longer drives." (22:01–22:31)

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4. Interview: Jamie Butters (Auto Town) (23:34–43:47)

About Auto Town (24:19–27:00)

• New show covers industry news, product overviews, dealership perspectives, and audience polls on features (e.g., touchscreens vs buttons).
  • Jamie: "We want everyone to be represented: all the constituencies reflected. First block...news, then the coffee shop interview, then the dealership lot, finally the town hall."

Industry Hot Topics (27:43–34:23)

• Affordability Crisis: About 1 million fewer new car buyers each year as cars, insurance, and maintenance get less affordable despite higher technology and safety.
  • Jamie: “Affordability is not such a big problem in autos…[but] it’s priced a million people out of the market each year, which has put more pressure on the used market.” (28:21–30:08)
• GM’s Profitability: GM’s earnings come from trucks and delaying their EV investments; quick pivot back to gas-powered models.
  • Jamie: “GM seemed to be close to cracking it...now the game's shifted, they've shifted with it...three new gasoline-powered Cadillacs.” (30:54–32:20)
• Chevy Bolt’s Short Lifespan: Orion plant shifting to pickups; Bolt back for only ~1.5 years.
  • “They kind of had a window to bring it back...but the big Orion plant...was going to be all EVs...now it’s going to pickups.” (33:25)

The China Factor & Ford/Geely Deal (34:23–41:57)

• Chinese automakers’ unsustainable growth: Funded by massive local/regional support; overcapacity and financial fragility.
  • Jamie: “Almost none of those companies make money...they have a really grossly over-capacitized market and they need to dump those vehicles on other markets and cause trouble for Europe.” (35:11)
• Ford and Geely in Spain: Ford’s closed Valencia plant will be used by China’s Geely—mixed feelings over this “Trojan Horse.” (38:35–41:57)
  • Jamie: “It’s strange to say this really lets China into Europe because they were already getting in through imports...maybe [Geely’s] just doing this as a favor for Ford.”

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5. Quiz Game: 2026 Cheapest Car (47:33–59:18)

• Format: Jill guesses which of two vehicles is less expensive at base price. She scores 4/5 correct.
• Example:
  • Tom: "Nissan Kicks vs Chevrolet Trax—which is cheaper?"
  • Jill: "Trax?"
  • Tom: "Correct—by $750. That matters at this price point." (47:59–49:08)
• Bonus question: Name a non-Monkees band member (Michael Bilandic was the decoy).
  • Jill: "Would they have both a Mickey and a Michael?...I'm gonna go with Michael as the fake, as the not." (58:51)

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6. Segment: Chicago Drive-In Magic — Superdawg (59:20–65:18)

• Group outing to the Superdawg Drive-In; history since 1948; cultural nostalgia and food impressions.
• Jill’s first visit, classic carhop experience (speaker ordering, food delivered to window, picnic benches outside).
  • Jill: "I'd never been to Superdawg before...I don't know what to do here!"
• Margaret (producer): "If you want burgers, go elsewhere. Their strength is the hot dogs."
• Today, prices feel reasonable compared to post-COVID inflation.
• Classic Chicago debate: Superdawg is not a classic “Chicago hot dog,” but beloved regardless.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Lucid Gravity’s quirks:
  • Tom (15:03): “Trying to do something like adjust the outside mirrors made me suicidal…gotta go into the touchscreen…then use controls on the steering wheel.”
  • Jill (17:09): “We got out of a ticket because we couldn’t figure out how to open the glove box.”
• On Lucid’s position:
  • Tom (18:54): “What they need is a vehicle they can sell in volume and make money on. …Gravity’s doing about 50% the volume of the Air.”
• On dealership frustrations:
  • Jamie (28:21): “[Affordability issues] have priced a million people out of the market each year, which has put more pressure on the used market…”
• On menu complexity:
  • Jamie (41:57): “[Geely] doesn’t need more capacity. …They’re almost doing this as a favor for Ford.”

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• 01:30 — Episode Start / Host Banter
• 04:00 — Rumored Range Rover GT / Future Models
• 06:53 — Honda/Acura Model Delays
• 10:53 — Toyota Corolla Cross Hybrid Impressions
• 12:50 — Lucid Gravity Review (Features, Glitches, Impressions)
• 23:34 — Jamie Butters Interview: New Show, Industry Insights
• 27:43 — Affordability Discussion & GM’s Pivot
• 34:23 — Chinese EV Market and Ford-Geely Deal
• 47:33 — Quiz Game: 2026 Cheapest Car
• 59:20 — Superdawg Outing and Chicago Car Culture

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Flow & Tone

• Playful, knowledgeable, sometimes lightly sarcastic and self-deprecating.
• Frequent use of personal stories and direct experiences with vehicles.
• Regular acknowledgment of industry uncertainty and product confusion.
• In-depth but accessible discussions suitable for enthusiasts and everyday drivers.

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For Listeners

This episode is a must for anyone interested in the state of EVs, the Lucid Gravity in particular, shifting automaker strategies, and the ongoing car affordability crisis. The balance of industry analysis and local color (Superdawg!) makes it engaging for both hard-core car buffs and casual listeners.

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Whether you drive a car, need a car, or just occasionally bum a ride with friends, you've come to the right place. Join Jill and Tom as they break down everything that's going on in the auto world. New car reviews, shopping tips, driving green electric cars, classic cars, and plenty of great guests. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff Podcast.

[Tom Appel]

All right. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast and I am Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. Thank you so much for joining us today. When you have a chance, do check us [e-mail] while you're there. You can check out our 2026 Best Buy picks and you can check out back episodes of the podcast right there on our homepage. Though you should subscribe online with us today. Jill Simonello. She is contributing editor here@consumer guide.com North American Car of the Year juror and a freelancer. Jill, how are you?

[Jill Simonello]

I'm doing pretty well. How are you?

[Tom Appel]

I'm doing good. I'm doing pretty good. It got hot today and now I've closed my office door. So I will be getting cranky over over the next hour.

[Jill Simonello]

Aren't you normally just cranky? So you're getting cranky?

[Tom Appel]

Yes, I will be getting. I'll be getting crankier.

[Jill Simonello]

Got it.

[Tom Appel]

But real. Go ahead.

[Jill Simonello]

I was gonna say, did you get caught in the rain at all this morning? The downpour, the deluge?

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, I had two cars to swap, so some rain was involved yes. Also, we're going to be talking a little bit later about the lucid gravity. I did something bad and I didn't know I did it, but I left the keys in the vehicle in my driveway. It locked itself.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

The lucid gravity locked itself with the

[Jill Simonello]

keys in the car. That's a known problem on the lucid air and the gravity. So did you download the app?

[Tom Appel]

I don't know what happened, but did

[Jill Simonello]

you download the app?

[Tom Appel]

No.

[Jill Simonello]

So by the way, like, I had app access when I had the gravity and I was able to unlock the doors with the app.

[Tom Appel]

All right, we're going to talk about the lucid gravity a little bit later on. We have birthday greetings. Steve King, WGN radio of Steve and Johnny Fang, shares a birthday, the exact birthday, with Mick Jagger. So happy birthday, Steve King. Later in the show, Jamie Butters, who goes by veteran auto journalist, but that wildly oversimplifies his resume, I think just started a new show, a new program called. What's it called? Auto Town. Auto Town, yeah, Auto Town with Jamie Butters. We'll be talking about that and getting his take on the crazy stuff that's going on in the industry. And there's a lot of crazy stuff going on. There is, but apparently the Gordie Howe Bridge is open.

[Jill Simonello]

I've heard a rumor. I've seen pictures.

[Tom Appel]

I know if you don't live in, in Detroit or Windsor, this is not a big deal to you, but it actually is. This affects everything. There's so much stuff that crosses that border in a day and in a month. We'll talk a little bit about that later. Okay. Interesting future car thing and not that far in the future. Apparently Rolls Royce is not Rolls Royce. I'm sorry, it says RR here. Range Rover working on something called the gt. Have you seen this?

[Jill Simonello]

I have. I have seen. I have seen photos.

[Tom Appel]

So without describing it, like, does this look like a sedan to you? No, no, no, it looks like a sedan to me.

[Jill Simonello]

It makes me think of the Range Rover Evoque.

[Tom Appel]

I guess this is much bigger and much more expensive than that vehicle. But I guess, I mean, Range Rovers have been really good looking vehicles for a number of years now. And this would be a lower, sleeker version of the Range Rover, though it comes in a little cheaper if the estimates are correct, starting around 90 grand, which is only. That's only a lot of money as opposed to a huge amount of money.

[Jill Simonello]

So so much cheaper. As opposed to the vehicle you and I drove recently. That was $155,000.

[Tom Appel]

Well, exactly. This is actually cheaper than that. So my question is if this thing indeed is lower, it looks a little bit like a sedan, costs less money. Is it still going to be a good off roader?

[Jill Simonello]

I can't imagine having a Land Rover that is at least not competent. You know, I mean even, even the Evoque, little though it is, is, is a competent off roader. I mean it can't do some of the big heavy lifting that the Range Rover and Discovery and Defender. It can, it can still do some hard things. So you know, maybe it'll be more along the lines of the Evoque. I mean even Jeep has some Jeeps that are not trail rated. So maybe it'll be like an off road capable but not trail rated vehicle.

[Tom Appel]

Maybe, maybe. I've often lamented the fact that Jeep builds things that aren't especially good off road. That seems to be the brand.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

You know, and they were building things like the Compass that were never really that interesting. Though the Turing Compass was available and I think it's still available. Trailhawk form. And that's actually, I've driven that off road. It's surprisingly good. You pay for it.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

So anyway, that Range Rover is due maybe as a 2028 model. It looks really good. We don't know a lot about it. It will be electric first and then maybe a gas hybrid later. So it's one of these flexible architectures that everyone talks about. Multi fuel strategy. Members of the media like to call it. Or not. The media. I'm sorry, the, the PR folk.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, the, the marketing speak.

[Tom Appel]

So Honda Acura going through a weird time. Right. We know the Acura RDX is going to disappear for a little while.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

And now Acura's volume car and that's their compact crossover. It was getting a little dated, but it was a heck of a nice car.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And they're going to, they're going to miss it in their sales numbers. It's coming back. But now we learn and this is not nearly so popular vehicle sales wise. But still I think it's important to their lineup. The Ridgeline will disappear.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

For a couple of years. What's going on there?

[Jill Simonello]

You know, I don't know that we have too many details about what's going on there. But I think the just the crux of the situation at Honda is they spent a lot of money building up an EV architecture infrastructure. Like not infrastructure but like putting a lot of money into EVs and then canceled it at the last minute at the, at the. At the ninth hour they canceled it. And so, or I guess I say the 11th hour they canceled it. And so now they have all this money that they had invested someplace else that they can't spend on the current infrastructure of vehicles that they have already got. So I think this is a cost cutting savings kind of a lifeline for them where they're cutting back on the Ridgeline, cutting back on the RDX so that they can pour money into other things and they're a little bit cash strapped at the moment. That's, that's what I think. I don't, I don't have any like sources to back that up, but that's what I think is what's going on.

[Tom Appel]

It is interesting to me that delaying the launch of a product by 18 or 24 months or whatever results in money savings. And I guess you're saving launch money and marketing money and retooling costs for a little while, but you're also not generating revenue.

[Jill Simonello]

I mean fair, but you're also not. They're spending that money on building the Accord, the Civic, which are, I mean I don't know if they're more popular than the rdx. You are more into sales figures than I am but you know, also really well selling vehicles. And so it's kind of like you Rob Peter to pay Paul. So Peter needs to go on a hiatus.

[Tom Appel]

Well, you know you hit an interesting point. Every single Honda product sells well in the U.S. except for the pilot. And I don't know how the Prelude is doing right now, but that's such a special interest thing. It doesn't matter. And this vehicle is scheduled to come back. One of the problems too is that they have not done development work on the engine. This 3 1/2 liter V6 has been around forever and it's a honey. It's a sporty, wonderful sounding engine with a lot of, a lot of willing reveness. But ultimately they needed to update that and they didn't. So they've got to get that set up and they're going to bring it back as a hybrid according to rumors. So this was built in Alabama. And to your point Jill, they will be making more pilots and passports in that factory while the Ridgeline is out of production. And for people who don't know, I don't know if we covered this. The Ridgeline is, is Honda's mid sized pickup truck. It's about the size of a Nissan Frontier or a Ford Ranger. Maybe a little bit bigger than a Frontier, but it is a bi. It is a Unit body construction vehicle. It is not body on frame. It doesn't generate the really big towing numbers or payload numbers, though most people don't need them. So very interesting vehicle. Actually a delight to drive. I always thought it was the, the small pickup I would pick, so.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

All right, we got that out of the way real quick. I wanted to. We're going to talk about the lucid air. I'm sorry, the lucid gravity in a moment, but I just got out of a car I wanted to talk about for just a second and we'll cover it in greater detail, probably, especially if you get it. And that is the Corolla Cross hybrid.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

So this is Toyota's smallest crossover available in the U.S. it's available with a hybrid drivetrain. And I've had some issues with this vehicle. One of them is price. I, I think that relative to other small, small crossovers, it's a little expensive. But I did just spend a week in this vehicle and hard not to be impressed by the build quality, the ride and handling, and my freaking fuel economy.

[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

I kept resetting it just to see what was going on. I saw as high as 55, as low as 49 mpg. Just driving around town. That's insane. That's wonderful. Regular gas, 55 miles per gallon, and the power is really good. For people who don't know, the way Toyota does its hybrids is the correct way, where there's, there's electric boost right away from, from when you pull away from a light and it just feels like you're driving something with a bigger engine. Yeah, the, the only problem is that engine makes snorty noises that, that aren't well insulated out in the Corolla Cross. But nice vehicle gets expensive. The one I drove started at 35. It gets very close to 40 with stuff, which is a lot of money for a small crossover. But on the other hand, your resale value is likely to be very high and you're going to save money on gas. What's that?

[Jill Simonello]

I said trade offs.

[Tom Appel]

Trade offs. Yeah. Yeah. I want to talk more about this vehicle. I think when my daughter was looking for a car, we didn't look at it, largely because she wanted something that was very sporty and something that was reasonably affordable. And Somehow the Mazda CX30 comes in cheaper.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Which maybe it shouldn't, I don't know, because it's such a good car with such a great, nice luxury interior. But, but anyway, let's talk some lucid. Are you ready?

[Jill Simonello]

I. I'm ready to talk Some Lucid.

[Tom Appel]

So Lucid has been selling one car now for years. Wait, I have notes. I found them. Since 2021, Lucid has been selling the Air, a large sedan that was very similar, I think, conceptually to the Tesla Model S. And it had a very, very broad price range that it was covering.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

And at the moment, at the moment, prices start at $72,000 and go to $251,000.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

It's crazy talk. And that's a lot of work for one car to cover.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

Like, can you really make the interior that much nicer? I know they up the horsepower a bunch, but anyway, they needed another product. And that product is the gravity. And you've. You just drove that? I just drove that.

[Jill Simonello]

I. Well, I drove it this winter, so I. It's been a couple months since I drove it, but I. I liked it. I mean, I will say I did have a couple of, you know, early production, like, software glitches that, you know, I don't think current owners will have, but. Well, except for locking your keys in the car, but.

[Tom Appel]

No, no. I was on the phone with you. We'll talk about this in a second. I had a glitch.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, you did have. I had to do a hard restart on the vehicle. When I first got it, I had no sound. So, like, the radio sound wasn't working. Like, you turn on your blinkers and you couldn't hear the blinkers. Um, I tried to call my husband and I couldn't hear him. Um, I think he could hear me, but I couldn't hear him. And then, you know, it was just. So I, I contacted Lucid and I was like, I don't know what's going on here, but I. I don't know what to do. What do I do? And so, like, I had to perform like a control, alt, delete, like hard reset on the vehicle. And then as soon as I did that, everything was fine.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. I ran into two situations. We should describe this vehicle. First, this is a midsize crossover that's a little bit more focused in terms of its market segment. Target starts at 81,550, goes to 141,550, which is still a huge range.

[Jamie Butters]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

That's 60 grand of spread. But you do get more power and more range as you climb that. But it's a midsize crossover with an extremely generous cabin. That is a roomy cabin. It is a good looking vehicle. Really nice interior, fantastic ride and handling. Very quick lot here to like and just Some quirkiness about it, trying to do something like adjust the outside mirrors made me suicidal because I forgot how I did that. Yeah, I forgot how I did that in the lucid air. But you don't do it via a switch on the door or the door handle. You have to go into the touchscreen and find this and then activate something and then use controls on the steering wheel. Now, you don't do this often, I understand that, but it's irritating.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, and so funny, funny story. True confession time. I was a passenger in a vehicle not so, you know, not too long ago, and we were driving through a town and the speed limit dropped and a cop was waiting for us and we got pulled over. And so I'm in the passenger seat and my friend who is driving, and it was a press car and this person was also a journalist, she had her purse in the back. And so the cop comes up and she's like, can I get my purse out of the back? And he said, yes. And he's like, license and registration. And so I'm trying to open the glove box and I cannot freaking figure out how to open the glove box, which I think is also through that central display. And because, yeah, there's no button. And so I'm like going through all of these menu screens and I'm like, sir, I really, I really apologize, but I cannot figure out how to open the glove box. And he looks at me and he's like, what? And I'm like, the registration is in the glove box. And I cannot figure out how to open the glove box. And he's like, looking at the screen. I'm looking at the screen, I'm pressing all these buttons. I'm like, there is no actual button to open this. And he was like, you know what? I'm going to give you a warning this time.

[Tom Appel]

So we got out of.

[Jill Simonello]

We got out of a ticket because we couldn't figure out how to open the glove box. I don't think that will work ever again for anybody ever. But yeah, I was just like, okay, thank you for the warning, sir.

[Tom Appel]

Wow. I'm writing that down.

[Jill Simonello]

I got boxes.

[Tom Appel]

I was talking to you on the phone. We were leaving Superdog, Chicago's legendary hot dog stand, Superdog on the extreme northwest side of the city, which we'll talk about later. We should talk about Superdog.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

But as I was leaving there, I lost throttle response. The car stopped responding to inputs from my right foot. And like, what is going on? And then a light came on. And on the left side of the dashboard, the entire front of the car as represented in an animation is glowing red. And the message reads hood open. Like, well, I didn't do anything with the hood. Why would the hood open? As I was crossing Devon, it was very weird. So I pulled over and, and I had to get out and slam on the hood. Like it had to like I tried turning it off and turning it back on. So I don't know what happened. It didn't feel like it was open. It didn't look like it was open. Pretty sure I didn't do anything accidentally with the key. And then later on I had the exact same thing happen for no reason where I lost throttle input and very frustrating. And then I stopped the car and started the car and then it reset.

[Jill Simonello]

Well, because I know that the front trunk is opened with a button on the screen on the left side. So I don't know if like something could have accidentally tapped that. I don't know. But outside of our glitchiness, what did you think of the vehicle?

[Tom Appel]

It's fantastic. It's exactly what they need. Except what they really need is something more affordable. We've talked about Lucid and it's, it's dire financial situation and they're losing a lot of money. And even the Saudis that have invested in this company, not super interesting. And dumping more money into this company. So we don't know where Lucid is going. And what they need is a vehicle they can sell in volume and make money on. And, and I know they went higher than I think they expected to price wise on this car just to generate cash. But it's, it's not selling in huge volume. It's doing about 50% the volume of the air.

[Jill Simonello]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

So that's good, but it's not great. And last year they sold 16,000 cars. That was up 600 from the year 6,000 before, the year before that, which is about 20% more than the year before that. So sales are growing, but slowly. Yeah. So it's time to just sort of wonder about what's next for them. Now they've got a couple of cars coming. They've got, we know that Rivian is doing something called the R2, which I think is on the road, at least in prototype forms or vehicles, which is a compact crossover.

[Jill Simonello]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

And, and that's really what Lucid needs here. Lucid's got a product called the Cosmos that's coming soon.

[Jill Simonello]

Yep.

[Tom Appel]

And then they've got, they've got something called the Earth, which I've reading different things about what the earth is, but I think it's like a Bronco sport, which is a good size for them and if they can get that to market, around 50 grand, that might work for them too. But I like the vehicle a lot. It presents well. It looks really well put together, really nice materials. Oh, oh, and the crazy ass glass roof. Yeah, the glass goes really far up the roof in the vehicle, so you have this contiguous windshield and your, your sun visors are actually mounted to glass in the roof, not to, you know, fabric or anywhere near an, a pillar or you know, a frame or anything. So that's a really cool look. My wife was impressed by how modern that looked.

[Jill Simonello]

I think that's something that you're either really gonna like or really gonna hate. My husband hated it.

[Tom Appel]

He hated it.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Interesting.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. But I mean, I had that car, you know, a few months ago, took a road trip to Indianapolis in it with my parents in law in the back and they loved it. And you know, I will have to send you my video review to link to this because I actually have my parents in law on camera with some of their driving impressions. But you know, I thought it was really great for a long drive, you know, because of the, you know, extra range. We didn't have to stop and charge. It did really well on the highway. I just, I thoroughly enjoyed my test time in that, other than, you know, the control, alt delete situation.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, we didn't talk about the range, but the range currently ranges, pardon me, from 337 to 450 miles, depending on how you equip the vehicle. But 450 miles?

[Jill Simonello]

Dang, that's nice.

[Tom Appel]

That's nice. Yeah, I didn't have to think about it all week. All right, your final thoughts on the gravity.

[Jill Simonello]

I think that it's a really great electric suv. I think that it is a little bit higher priced, but you get a lot of luxury features for that price tag. It's comfortable in the front, it's comfortable in the back. If you equipped it with, you know, the, the optional third row seat, that's not so comfortable, but doable in a pinch and you have plenty of cargo space. And with the extra range, I really think that it is a viable EV for longer drives.

[Tom Appel]

You also kind of get a vibe of this being an exotic vehicle just a little bit, which is kind of cool. It's kind of nice. All right, we're going to take a break. When we come back, we talk to Jamie Butters. He's the host of Auto Town. Stick around.

[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Questions or comments? Drop us a [e-mail] that's carstuffconsumerguide.com

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[Tom Appel]

Spin Quest is a free to play

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[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Stuff podcast and we're back.

[Tom Appel]

This is the consumer guide Car Stuff podcast. I'm Tom Appel. She is Jill Simonello. Jill. Hello, Jill. One of my favorite guests has joined us today. I think this is his second or third visit on the show. And I have good news.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay. I like your good news.

[Tom Appel]

Jamie Butters, who who used to host the

[Jamie Butters]

Daily Drive

[Tom Appel]

is back on the air.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

So this is all very good. Anyway, Jamie, welcome to the show.

[Jamie Butters]

Thank you. So glad to be back.

[Tom Appel]

You have had a very active career the last few months, last couple of years. But it's really cool to hear that you've got a new show. Before we do anything else, tell us about your new project.

[Jamie Butters]

Dude, it's always fun. My new show, okay, so I left automotive news about a year ago, went to the Wall Street Journal. It didn't go great. I was on my own, trying to figure out what to do. Started bootstrapping some stuff to support this concept for my own show called Auto Town. And it's always fun in Auto Town, but today is an exceptionally good day in Auto Town because we have merch.

[Jill Simonello]

Oh. Oh, we don't even have merch.

[Tom Appel]

No, we don't have merch. I have a one off T shirt my daughter made me.

[Jamie Butters]

That's pretty cool.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. Yeah, but that's not real merch. So that's on the merch. Thank you.

[Jamie Butters]

Yeah, super exciting. So much fun. But no, it's, it's. I've. So I'm on Saturday mornings on WJR, great voice of the Great Lakes, 50,000 watt Detroit station, 7:60am, Saturday mornings at 7:00am Then I also do a midweek podcast that's on all the regular, you know, podcast places and the, I mean the WJR show, as soon as we air it, I post the show to all the platforms. So all the audio's out there. I was fortunate enough, Tom, to have Jill on as a guest.

[Tom Appel]

Oh, wow.

[Jamie Butters]

A while back, and that was a hoot. And we got to collab, as they say on the socials and good times.

[Tom Appel]

Well, cool. So tell us about the show a little bit. Now you've got the broadcast show on the radio, the midweek show. Is that also called Auto Town?

[Jamie Butters]

It's also called Auto Town. So there's sort of Auto Town radio and Auto Town podcast. It's on my little brand. And so the concept of the show, right, it's Auto Town, we want everyone to be represented, all the constituencies to be reflected. First block we do, I call the drive around the block and the guest co host and I talk about the news. Then we stop at the coffee shop. That's the interview segment. So, you know, you're sitting down in your little out of town coffee shop. Then we go browse the dealership lot. That's where. That's where we usually talk about product, but sometimes we talk about the retail world, what's going on with dealers and what's going on with customers. Right. And what they need to know, what they need to be thinking about. And then the last block is the. The town hall and where we try to get audience engagement. I do a poll online each week and ask people a question. This week we're talking about, oh, my gosh, Jill, you could go off on this for a while. We're talking about interior, you know, infotainment controls, all screen, all buttons and knobs, a combination. What's the right. What do you want as a consumer? That's kind of. That's this week's question.

[Jill Simonello]

And people can answer that right now, right?

[Jamie Butters]

That's right. It's on all the socials. I finally convinced Meta that I'm not a bottle, so I can actually put polls on Facebook and Instagram that will stay up for more than 24 hours. So that's fun. And no, it's, you know, it's great. People can vote, they can leave a comment. I've been known to read some of the comments and comment on the comments. So good times.

[Tom Appel]

Never commit to reading the comments.

[Jamie Butters]

I'm not saying I always will. I appreciate the input.

[Jill Simonello]

I always commit to reading the comments.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah.

[Jamie Butters]

So into the middle, between the crossfire, between the two of you. I get it.

[Spinquest Announcer]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Well, there's constant crossfire. That's okay. So talking about product seems like a thing that we do less and less, unfortunately. Right. The big topic now is affordability, how long car loans are getting Interest rates are super high. And now the big conversation last few weeks has been about how much, how far underwater customers are. And I sort of miss talking about actual product. But where, where are we in your opinion on this affordability issue? Because it looks like we've eliminated. Let me just, let me just yammer for another moment.

[Jamie Butters]

A million.

[Tom Appel]

So vehicles. Yeah, that's my question.

[Jamie Butters]

I mean, that's the rough number, right, is we. We've lost about a million new vehicle sales. You know, they're the data in the industry. And I would say throughout the economy has been so chaotic over the last decade, or certainly, you know, from COVID times on, so even less than a decade, but it's just been, it's been so bizarre. So, you know, the current thing, the, the thought leadership position right, in these days is to argue that affordability is not such a big problem in autos, that the inflation on new vehicles is comparable to the cpi. And when you factor in the improved technology, people are arguably getting a better value on a Honda CRV or a RAV4 today than they were 10 years ago. And probably you could make the same case on a F150 or something like that. But the problem is, okay, compared to everything else, car prices have only gone up about the same. Maybe they went up extra more during COVID and they've kind of flattened out for a while, but the cost of insurance has gone way up, the cost of, you know, maintenance or repairs has gone way up, and of course, the cost of everything else has gone way up. So consumers are really strapped to. And, and that new higher car payment may be in line with inflation, but inflation, that ran away from us for a while, you know, that still makes it really expensive. And it's priced a million people out of the market each year, which has put more pressure on the used market, which is driving up prices there.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. So two questions for you. One, having to do with, with affordability and technology. So consumers have access to greater technology than they've ever gotten before, but it's more or less being forced on them. The suite of safety systems that comes with cars now, that's mostly standard, raised the price of cars a lot. And I'm not 100% convinced most shoppers see the value in all of that. So it becomes an affordability issue simply because I think they believe they're being sold something they don't actually want to purchase. And then part two, which is completely unrelated. No hybrids. No hybrids. Higher prices. General Motors is kicking ass profitability wise. How is that happening?

[Jamie Butters]

It's trucks, right? It's trucks. And you know, they, they're losing less money on evs because they're not making them now in the same rate they were. They're not, they don't have the encouragement to keep investing in that. They were on a path to break even, which is the way to get to profitability is first through break even with all those incentives behind. Remember, it took Tesla a long time to become a break even company and even then people disputed it or would try to back out the money they got from the government. But hey, they got that money so that counts. But it's a, it's a tough game. GM seemed to be close to cracking it. Now the game's shifted, they've shifted with it. If, you know, we joked last time, actually the last time I was on with you guys, you know, we don't usually think of GM as nimble, but here they are coming right back with, you know, three new gasoline powered Cadillacs because that's going to be the law of the land for at least some of the, the next several years. You can, they can turn, they know how to do that stuff. They can turn those around, they can get them out in the market, gain some market share, make some money and then figure out whatever they might have to do, you know, to help the world deal with climate change or maybe changing consumer tastes and competition.

[Tom Appel]

GM sells a bunch of different EVs from different brands. Can they sustain the relatively low volumes that they're doing now?

[Jamie Butters]

I, I haven't crunched the numbers enough to give you a definitive answer, but you know, it does seem like it would be challenging. You look at Cadillac, if you look on cadillac.com Like I said, they're just adding, they're trying to add three more gas powered Cadillacs but they list eight EV models on Cadillac.com and so, you know, obviously the Celestic at its elite level is never supposed to be a big volume. You've got V's and you've got a. But you know, that's, that's a lot of names, that's a lot of variability to carry on what's still going to be relatively small volume. And if you think, you know, of GM overall, they're going to have nice volume with the bolt, but that's only for a little while. You know, the equinox then becomes the entry level and we'll see how many of those they continue to supply if they don't feel like they're making money on them.

[Tom Appel]

Jamie, remind our listeners why Is the Bolt a short timer?

[Jamie Butters]

Oh, now you caught me on that one. They only have a little bit of time. They have basically a year and a half at that factory before they're bringing in something else. Is it the new Equinox, the next next gen. Okay, Gasoline Equinox or something. But they're going to make. They have a product that's assigned to that plant. They kind of had a window to bring it back. But the big Orion plant up in, you know, north of Detroit was going to be all EVs. It was the original home of the Bolt. And that's going, that's going to pickups. It's going to be full size pickups. And that's where GM thinks they can make money now. And the workers there want to make products that are going to make money for GM because that's their job security.

[Tom Appel]

I'm digging the Bolt commercials about how they teched up the vehicle and they simplified the lineup. Right. There's no longer like a crossover. That didn't really look like a crossover version, but it's a 28 995. Is that the advertised price?

[Jamie Butters]

That sounds right.

[Tom Appel]

And that seems like a screaming good deal.

[Jamie Butters]

Yeah. I mean that of course doesn't include destination, you know, fees and handling, shipping, handling such. Such like that. But yeah, it's a great deal if you can find one. And if, and if you've got home charging, you know, I mean.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah.

[Jamie Butters]

And I'm not saying, I mean, look, the Bolt has decent range. If you have charging at work that you can even get to once or twice a week, probably going to be fine. But I always say, I mean, really, EVs are best for, you know, families with a garage and a, you know, two to four vehicles. And they can easily work in one or two EVs that they can charge at home and can come out be a really beneficial economic play for them if they're in the comfortable situation to be to. To accommodate it.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. All right, so go ahead, Jill. I just like, I haven't seen the Bolt since it's been back. Did they change it much or is it essentially the same vehicle that left the market and then they just brought it back?

[Jamie Butters]

I haven't gotten a lot of time with it either. But the point was they were going to bring it. There's a. There's some complicated branding involved. But when they said they were bringing it back, it was that they were going to bring it back on the Ultium platform and then they d. Branded Ultium.

[Tom Appel]

Right.

[Jamie Butters]

So that's no longer really a thing for them. Partly because that was, I think ultimately comes down to the fact that that was a joint venture with LG and now they're not just working with lg. So that got a little mucked up and then, but it is still, it's a lithium ion battery. I mean they didn't go to, you know, like, like Ford is planning to go with lithium iron batteries that are, you know, the cheaper, not as fast charging but more durable. You know, there's trade offs with all the chemistries. We know there's a lot of progress trying to be made as companies try to figure out how to do this business profitably. And look, we talk all the time about China. I don't know what you do. We hear in Detroit people talk about China all the time and China is a huge competitive threat. But almost none of those companies make money. You know, they have a really grossly over capacitized market and they need to dump those vehicles on other markets and cause trouble for Europe and other places. But you know, these are not healthy companies fundamentally. So it's, it's a, it's, it's messy.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, we don't talk about that enough. We don't talk about the debt that these Chinese companies are servicing. The amount of aid they got to be where they are from, not only the federal government over there, but from prefectures and states and even cities. So they kind of cheated along the way and, and they're, they're at a place where maybe they can't sustain this stuff, selling these vehicles as cheaply as they do.

[Jamie Butters]

It's, it, it's complicated like we said, you know, it is, I think there's, from a Western perspective it is like a systemic cheating. And you do wonder, are they cheating themselves? You know, you know, with these, with the prefectures and the cities funding, providing capital to companies that can't really compete, that aren't really making money, but they provide jobs in the region and you know, and that's important for maintaining the peace. You know, I don't think we really want to see China collapse into chaos either for the sake of the world or the global economy or the auto industry. So, you know, it's, it's complicated. But yeah, they, they need to find a way to let their industry, you know, get reconciled in, into something more economical or else they have to just destroy the rest of the global auto industry.

[Tom Appel]

So big news, speaking of China last week, or was it the week before, and that's that Ford is going to share its Valencia Spain production facility with Geely, which some people are. There's a lot of the sky is falling talk here about how this, this is a Trojan horse for China to get into Europe, but China seems to be getting into Europe just fine anyway. What do you make of this deal?

[Jamie Butters]

Yeah, it's curious and I would love to have been a fly on the wall of Ford's internal meetings about it. I think, I mean I don't think you can. It's strange to say that this really lets China into Europe because they were already getting in a lot through imports and the last thing they need is more capacity. But obviously Ford had excess capacity. They weren't able to utilize this plant. I think they couldn't really get their partners like VW or Renault to use it more because they're over capacitized, facing an influx of Chinese competition and maybe it's an act of desperation. I would love to think sort of like with the battery plant they're doing with Catl, you can sort of do a, a jiu jitsu, a reverse power play against like what China did to the west of saying hey, we'll work with you but we've got to be the majority partner and we need to see all your technology and we need to figure out what you're doing and be able to gather, I don't say steel, but learn from that and then turn around and compete with it, right? I mean if that's what you need to do to learn the battery chemistry, you know, that is fundamentally comparable to byd. If that's what you need to learn to do the manufacturing that's competitive with a Geely or a byd. The best, not the state owned enterprises, but the best independent, more capitalist minded Chinese automakers. You know, maybe that's the way to do it. But also with Ford, they already did their universal electric vehicle, their, their skunk project. It's like they've already kind of plan to make the leap forward. I mean now are you going to second guess yourself? But I don't know, maybe they think they can still learn something from that as they obviously they're going to learn on the process with the UEV as well. So you know, you have to hope they're not, you know, doing. We saw some hot rhetoric, right, that they were helping the Chinese, you know, to kill the global economy, global industry. The thing is Geely doesn't need more capacity. You know, they're almost doing this as a favor for Ford. Maybe, you know, maybe they'll end up trying to take over that plant. And that'll give them a foothold that makes it harder to keep, to restrict Chinese vehicles. But again, sort of like we heard here today, you know, President Trump's here in Michigan and a UAW member who's long been a fan of the president, you know, got up there and said, you know, as long as they make it here, you know, if they want to sell here, they got to make it here. And I think there are a lot of companies that don't feel that even if the Chinese made it here, that that would make it fair. But that is a simple way to build the, the process to label it. And if they start making it there, if they start making it in Europe, it makes it harder for Europe to kick out the Chinese.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. Interesting. Jamie, we run out of time, but tell us more about your show.

[Jamie Butters]

Oh, my gosh, we're just having so much fun. We've had, like I said, we have these guests. We're about two months in. We've done 10 episodes on the radio. Now, the 10th podcast episode is set to go live this week. And this week's show I've got Keith Naughton from Bloomberg, my old Ford reporter. He's about to retire and I needed to catch him before he rides off into the sunset. He just ran his first Boston Marathon, Jill. I don't know if you knew, that had been a bucket list thing for him. He got to do it with his son, who's an amazing runner. Keith's going to be my guest, co host, riding shotgun. This week we're going to be talking about the Jeep Cherokee and we've got a labor expert on to talk about the Ford uniform deal and of course, the rest of the uniform negotiations and what's to come with the uaw. So check me out on all the platforms, Auto Town or Auto Town with Jamie Butters. And appreciate you guys spreading the word and look forward to having you on back on Auto Town.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, delighted to have you join us.

[Jill Simonello]

I've really enjoyed listening to your podcast. I like your format a lot. It's very fast paced and, you know, there's not a lot of room to, like, get bored. You're always like, onto the next thing and you've got a lot of great guests, so. Including me.

[Jamie Butters]

Including you, of course.

[Jill Simonello]

You've had a lot of great guests. And so I really like if you are looking for another automotive podcast and I put the royal you out there, I think the Auto Town is like a great addition.

[Jamie Butters]

Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, Jamie, thank you so much for your time today.

[Jamie Butters]

Thanks, Tom. Appreciate you having me on, buddy.

[Tom Appel]

Oh, my pleasure. That was Jamie Butters with Auto Town. We're going to take a break and when we come back.

[Jill Simonello]

Quiz time.

[Tom Appel]

Quiz time.

[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Questions or comments? Drop us a [e-mail] that's carstuffinsumerguide.com

[Jill Simonello]

you're

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Angel Soft.

[Jamie Butters]

Soft and strong. Simple.

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[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.

[Tom Appel]

And we're back. This is the consumer guide Car Stuff Podcast. I'm Tom. She is Jill. Jill. Good to talk to Jamie again.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, yeah. As, as you said, he is one of our favorite guests. He is just so fun to talk to and really knowledgeable.

[Tom Appel]

Well, he's one of those guys like Sam. They just have so much institutional knowledge and they've been following this industry because they love it.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

That it's just so easy to hear them talk about it and, and, and whatever it is they're sharing and their opinions, they're like totally worth knowing.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

So, yeah. Cool to talk to Jamie. Good luck with Auto Town. People should check that out after they listen to our podcast. Listen to our podcast then listen to Jamie's podcast.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes, yes, of course.

[Tom Appel]

All right. Social media, you do that.

[Jill Simonello]

I do, I do do that social media thing. Yeah. You can find me on all the socials. I post new video every day to YouTube and tick tock. And I am on Instagram fairly prolifically as well. Facebook, what is it? X Twitter and threads and Blue sky. You can find me at Jill Simonello and I use the hashtag card Azure. So if. If there's a social medium that I'm not on that I should be on, I would like to know about it. So reach out to me and let me know.

[Tom Appel]

I. I just posted my monthly mystery show.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

Facebook, which is something we discuss on Nick Digilio show. And I'll be on Nick Dijilio's show next Tuesday. Special thanks to Tory Reiter at wcpt. People who don't remember. Our show used to be live on W. Not live, but broadcast on wcpt. But Tory had me on to talk a little bit about Tesla this weekend and we talked about Tesla finances.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

So the topics, I have to keep

[Jill Simonello]

on top of all the things.

[Tom Appel]

All the things. I am car guy Tom on Twitter. And X, if you want to follow me, there some pretty good car spotter finds this week. All right, it is quiz time.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

All right. Today's topic is the easiest one ever,

[Jill Simonello]

which means I'm gonna get zero out of six.

[Tom Appel]

Well, it's conceptually easy. The topic is 2026 cheapest car. Exclamation point.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay, I'm.

[Tom Appel]

I'm simply going to give you two vehicles, and you have to tell me one has the cheapest, most affordable base price.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

So the entry point for that car. Are you ready?

[Jill Simonello]

As ready as I'm going to be.

[Tom Appel]

All right. Nissan Kicks. These are all 2026 Nissan Kicks or Chevrolet tracks. Which one starts the lowest?

[Jill Simonello]

That's. That's tough.

[Tom Appel]

Also, I learned doing this that base trim level names suck.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, well, you know, I think a lot of trim level names suck. So let's see.

[Tom Appel]

So actually, there isn't a single good one on this list.

[Jill Simonello]

No. Oh, man. I really like both the Kicks and the Trax.

[Tom Appel]

Yep, they're both excellent.

[Jill Simonello]

The Trax is front wheel drive. Only the Kicks offers all wheel drive. But I believe, you know, base is front wheel drive. You know, I think I'm going to go with Trax simply because it's a simplified platform because it doesn't offer all wheel drive. So I'm going to go with Trax.

[Tom Appel]

It is. And by a fair amount of money, it's 23,495.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

So 23.5 kicks is 24, 275. And I think that if you're Shopping in this price range, 750 bucks matters to you.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, I think you're correct on that.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. And the Trax, they're both great vehicles. The Trax offers, I would argue, better ride and handling and more cabin space. The Kicks has the much nicer interior and more standard equipment for the money

[Jill Simonello]

and more available features. I feel like on that vehicle, including all wheel drive.

[Tom Appel]

I can't remember the brand of audio system, but it's very good. If you order a top trim level. All right, you're on the board. You have one number two Bose, by the way. Is it?

[Jill Simonello]

I think it is. Thank you.

[Tom Appel]

So Honda Ridgeline. We discussed it earlier. Honda Ridgeline or Nissan Frontier? Which one starts more affordably?

[Jill Simonello]

Oh, well, the Honda Ridgeline is certainly the simplified platform with unibody construction, But I don't know if. Well, the Frontier has. A really good base option. And I mean, I will say I feel like the Ridgeline, even though it's unibody construction, has more bougie features and it definitely has a better like overall ride to it doesn't have that truck like feeling shared platform with passport and pilot, which I think would help reduce costs.

[Tom Appel]

Gonna need an answer.

[Jill Simonello]

I know, I know

[Tom Appel]

you're going full Colombo here.

[Jill Simonello]

I'm trying to get you to give something away here. You know what I'm going to go with Ridgeline.

[Tom Appel]

No, and not even close. The Ridgeline just starts well equipped. The ridgeline starts at 42,290. The Frontier has a model that starts at 33,895.

[Jill Simonello]

Wow.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, wow. Part of the reason the Frontier is a consumer guide best buy for 2026 is you can get into a pickup for around 35k if you could find one equipped like that.

[Jill Simonello]

Right? Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

You might not order it. All right, you have one point number three. Okay, this is a good one. The Grand Highlander. That's Toyota's big three row crossover. Or the Chevrolet Traverse General Motors big three row crossover.

[Jill Simonello]

Ooh. I just had the Grand Highlander, but it was like the top tier bougie

[Tom Appel]

limited trim that stole all the Highlander sales. Yeah, it didn't cost more. I mean, about a thousand bucks more, but so much more useful.

[Jill Simonello]

I feel like the Grand Highlander has more usable cargo space and a better third row. It also has a lot more standard safety features. I feel like Chevrolet is still on that. Everything's an option kick or you, you know, your base vehicle doesn't get the up level features which would help it cost less.

[Tom Appel]

I just, I just Reviewed the Traverse, and I cannot remember if they did that or not, but it's common on GM products, especially Chevrolet products, to lump a lot of valuable ADAs, advanced driver assistance Systems, into a package.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And dealers can decide whether or not to stock those. Yeah.

[Jill Simonello]

I'm gonna go with Traverse being less expensive.

[Tom Appel]

It is 42, 795 versus 43, 895, so about a grand.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

There we go. I like the Traverse, but the drivetrain wasn't great. And interior wasn't great.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Interior materials, quality.

[Jill Simonello]

I didn't. I didn't love the engine on. On the. On the Traverse.

[Tom Appel]

No, it needs something. Needs a little magic. Yeah.

[Jill Simonello]

Something new.

[Tom Appel]

Someone needs to dump some motor honey into that thing.

[Angel Soft Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

All right, you've got two out of three. You're doing fine. The Honda CRV or Hyundai Tucson.

[Jill Simonello]

Ooh. Because Hyundai has gone a little bit up market lately.

[Tom Appel]

Neither of these are hybrids.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay.

[Tom Appel]

These are just base models.

[Jill Simonello]

I mean, because, I mean, you always used to go to Hyundai as the value leader, and in many instances, I think it is still the value leader, just with all of the things that you get included for the price. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are contented the same.

[Tom Appel]

The Hyundai. The Hyundai Genesis. Value play maybe played out.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

There's still. There's still. The pricing is still compelling. But they're not bargains anymore.

[Jill Simonello]

No, no, no, no. They are definitely not bargains anymore. I mean. Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Oh, CRV or Tucson. Gonna need an answer.

[Jill Simonello]

You keep telling me that. I'm gonna.

[Tom Appel]

I'm gonna.

[Jill Simonello]

I'm gonna go with Tucson as the cheaper. Yes.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. By a fair amount of money. 31, 050 versus 32. 370 for the CRV. So the CRV is a solid 1200 bucks more. All right, so you have one. You have your three. We didn't really go through the rules. Five questions plus the bonus question. Three for a victory. We play with the bonus question even if you don't need it.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

Also, the bonus question always related to the topic of the day.

[Jill Simonello]

Always.

[Tom Appel]

All right, I've got a good one here for you. The Golf GTI or Subaru wrx.

[Jill Simonello]

Ooh. You know, they just launched a new base model of the WRX with a manual transmission.

[Tom Appel]

I don't think they did that as a 26, so I wouldn't.

[Jill Simonello]

No, I don't think it's for sale yet. But. But I was very excited to see that. I saw some posts on LinkedIn over the weekend, and I was, like, doing a Little happy dance.

[Tom Appel]

Do you know what the BASSWRX is called? What the trim level is called?

[Jill Simonello]

Probably something stupid. Is it just bass?

[Tom Appel]

It's bass. Yes, bass. The GTI gets the exciting S designation. S and base.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Okay, so WRX vs GTI. I feel like they just moved the production of the WRX away from America to back to Japan. So that could have some tariff ramifications. But you know, the, the Golf isn't. The GTI is not built here because I would have formally said WRX is probably less expensive. But I don't know if that's the case anymore.

[Angel Soft Announcer]

I.

[Jill Simonello]

You know what, I'm going to go with it. I'm going to say WRX is cheaper.

[Tom Appel]

Yes, it is. 33, 690 versus 35, 865. And part of that value, if you want to call it that, comes from the fact that the WRX is also all wheel drive.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

So you're getting, you're getting more power from the WRX and you're getting all wheel drive. All right. You got four out of five. Nice job. Bonus question. You're a big music fan. You and I have a lot in common when we talk about music.

[Jill Simonello]

So much in common.

[Tom Appel]

How well do you know the Monkeys?

[Jill Simonello]

Okay, ironically, when I was a kid, the reruns are of hey, hey, they're the Monkeys. Used to be on Nickelodeon and I used to, I used to watch that on Nickelodeon. So I don't know if I remember any of it, but I do know who the Monkeys are.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, the Monkey show used to wear my patience thin. But I watched it for a while, but they were accidentally a good band. They were thrown together for the purposes of the show.

[Jill Simonello]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

Sort of a weird response to the Beatles and a weird kind of half assed response to the Beatles, but yet the band worked out. I mean they recorded some great music and they've been entertaining people for years. Last train to Clarksville, Stepping stone, little bit me, little bit New big hits for these guys and they turned out to be pretty cool. I need you to tell me which of the following is not a member, which person is not a member of the Monkees. Are you ready?

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. This I'm probably not going to know, but let's go for it.

[Tom Appel]

All right. Davy Jones, Mickey Dolens, Peter Torque or Michael Balandic.

[Jill Simonello]

I know Davy Jones is. That is the one I know for sure.

[Tom Appel]

All right. He was cute.

[Jill Simonello]

Adorbs.

[Tom Appel]

Yep.

[Jill Simonello]

My, my like 10 year old self, I'm sure had a crush on him. Okay, so who are the other three,

[Tom Appel]

Mickey Dolenz, Peter Torque, Michael Bilandic.

[Jill Simonello]

The last two names don't sound familiar to me at all, but Mickey Dolan sounds familiar. So I'm gonna make a guess that maybe he was also a band member.

[Tom Appel]

All right.

[Jill Simonello]

Okay, so what were the last two again?

[Tom Appel]

Peter Tork, Michael Bilandic.

[Jill Simonello]

Would they have both a Mickey and a Michael? I'm gonna go with Michael as the fake, as the knot.

[Tom Appel]

Michael Blandic.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

He was the mayor of Chicago before Jane Byrne. The actual fourth member was Michael Nismith. Nice job. If you were here, I would autograph this and hand it to you, but.

[Jill Simonello]

So they would have had a Michael and a Mickey. Interesting. Just not that Michael, they would have.

[Tom Appel]

So nice job on the quiz. So Friday, Friday, you and I and. And producer Margaret and her husband went to Superdog.

[Jill Simonello]

We did.

[Tom Appel]

And years and years ago, we had the folks from Superdog on the show, but we haven't talked to them in a long time. But it was just nice to go there and still have this place be what it is. And for people who don't know, Superdog was established in 1948. It was a hot dog cart, a hot dog stand, and then eventually a full blown drive in restaurant. And it just oozes charm. And the food is good and it smells fantastic and it's just, there's a lot there to love. And we didn't eat in the car, which is probably fine because it was so nice outside.

[Angel Soft Announcer]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

It was a nice evening. But you do the, the traditional thing is to go there and eat in the car. And one of the things that happened was that Covet kind of ruined that experience because they don't do the trays anymore, which was fun.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah. But I mean, the idea is you pull up into a parking space, there's a speaker outside the window, and then you place your order and then they bring your food out to your car. And you know, it's funny because I pulled in and I saw like, I'd never been to Superdog before, and I pulled in and I like, saw.

[Tom Appel]

How is that possible?

[Jill Simonello]

I don't know. I don't know. But I saw all the parking spots with the, the things that I didn't want to pull into a parking spot because I saw you guys sitting at the p. Picnic bench. So I like drove straight through the parking lot and I was like, I. I don't, I don't know what to do here. And so I like, literally had to circle around the block and I parked on the street and they're like, no, you could have actually parked in one of those spots. And I'm like. But I didn't want to take up a space for somebody, so. Oh, yeah.

[Tom Appel]

It was still kind of hopping because we met at 7:30, I think.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And they were still doing some business. But that place has been around forever and it's wonderful place to just hang out and it smells great and. And then they opened a new one, which is gigantic just further down Milwaukee Avenue in Wheeling, Illinois.

[Jill Simonello]

A lot further down.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. And that's wonderful. I think between 15 and 20 years now. And it struggled at first. I remember we were talking to the owner and I don't know if we did this on the podcast or I interviewed him or something, but kids don't cruise anymore.

[Jill Simonello]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

They don't go out in their cars and hang out and then end up at Superdog, which they really should do. So the nature of the audience out in the Wheeling, the suburban location is really more family.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

You know, kind of a destination thing. But that was good. So how was your food?

[Jill Simonello]

You know what? I really enjoyed it. I had a super dog with mustard and onions, no ketchup in Chicago. And you gave me one of your like pickled tomatillo things. And that was lovely. You know, the french fries were nice and crispy. And then we had, you know, to share on the table, we ordered a couple of like, the fried bites or like the onion rings and the veggie bites or whatever. And those were also quite lovely super

[Tom Appel]

veggies and then onion chips. And here's the thing about the super veggie. And you got one. They call them super veggie, but there's like little wads of corn pone in there. Oh, yeah, that are. That are magic. And if you go there, if you go to Superdog with my daughter, those will disappear. They will magically just disappear from the box. So. Hey, Margaret, can you check in? You. You had said something interesting. Yeah. You. You had a hot dog.

[Producer Margaret]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

A super dog. They correct you if you say hot dog, but you said you didn't like the burgers there.

[Producer Margaret]

I'm not a fan.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer (Alternate)]

No.

[Producer Margaret]

If you want burgers, go elsewhere. Their strength is super. Is. Are the hot dogs.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. And they are fantastic. And for people who don't know, presentation is everything. The dog comes in a box with a wonderful presentation of crinkle cut fries. And those are some darn good fries. Yes.

[Jill Simonello]

And then that is a picture of my. Of my hot dog with the french fries. I think I took A picture of it in the box.

[Tom Appel]

Oh, shoot that to me, because I've got my picture of my grilled cheese for people who don't know I'm a vegetarian, but they do a grilled cheese that can be significantly customized. So I did the grilled cheese on dark bread with grilled onions. Okie schmuckles. That's good. That's good eating.

[Producer Margaret]

I'm a regular customer. I've been going there for several years.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

And, yeah, it's. It's just. It's fun. It's. It's. It's great. Also, it used to seem expensive, but after the COVID inflation wave, they don't seem more expensive than any place else anymore.

[Jill Simonello]

Right.

[Tom Appel]

And it's filling.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Also, that is not a Chicago hot dog. I just want to get that out in the air, too. They don't. They don't do the celery salt. They do a Sinai 48 kosher dog. There's a lot of stuff there that isn't Chicago dog, but that's okay because it's fantastic. As I remember, I haven't actually had one that was real meat for 30 years.

[Producer Margaret]

But they're my favorite hot dogs. They're 100% beef, and they're bigger, and the fries are perfect. And it's warm when you get it. Lots of people go there. And we were regular customers during COVID because that was the only place you could go and drive and eat in your car.

[Tom Appel]

I. I did that. I actually met people there, including my friend Sarah, who lives in Oak Park. We just met there to hang out, yelling from window to window, because that was the nature of COVID All right,

[Producer Margaret]

so does that mean that we're going to take another trip there?

[Tom Appel]

We have to.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes. I. I 100 will go back, and I will. I will bring my husband this time. And you need to bring your wife, Tom.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah, I got to do that. And for people who don't know, too, that's the extreme northwest side of Chicago. Like, that is the edge of Chicago.

[Jill Simonello]

Yeah.

[Tom Appel]

Put an opinion in it. That's where Chicago ends. And is that Niles? That starts there.

[Producer Margaret]

Park Ridge is nearby.

[Tom Appel]

Park Ridge. Okay. Yeah. Good stuff. But, Margaret, this was your idea, and it was a great idea. I'm glad we did that.

[Jill Simonello]

Me, too.

[Tom Appel]

All right, well, Jill, guess what we did.

[Jill Simonello]

We had another great show.

[Tom Appel]

Yeah. It was good to talk to Jamie. It was good to talk about Superdog.

[Jill Simonello]

Yes.

[Tom Appel]

It was good for me to vent about the Corolla cross. I like the vehicle. It's just little things.

[Jill Simonello]

Little things.

[Tom Appel]

Little things. All right. Big thanks to Jamie Butters of Auto Town. Thank you, Jill. Thank you to producer Margaret. Let's talk more about cars. Let's talk more about cars next week.

[Jill Simonello]

Next week.

[Tom Appel]

There you go.

[Podcast Host Intro/Outro]

Remember to check us [e-mail] the car stuff podcast is produced by J turn Media. To advertise on the show, please drop us a [e-mail]

[Angel Soft Announcer]

SA.