Massive Jeep Recall, Mercedes Plug-in Wagon, Why U.S. Car Sales Remain Robust

Summary

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Car Stuff Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode: Massive Jeep Recall, Mercedes Plug-in Wagon, Why U.S. Car Sales Remain Robust Hosts: Tom Appel & Jill Ciminillo
Guest: Larry Vellequette (Automotive News)
Date: June 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This lively episode dives into some of the most interesting developments in the car world this week: a massive recall affecting Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator models, the new Mitsubishi Eclipse Sportback EV, Jill's hands-on impressions of the rare Mercedes E53 AMG plug-in hybrid wagon, and an insightful discussion with automotive journalist Larry Vellequette on trends in U.S. auto sales, the Toyota recall saga, & the potentially revolutionary solid-state battery. The conversation is helpful for both industry insiders and car enthusiasts, blending the hosts’ friendly banter with deep dives into automotive news and technology.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Massive Jeep Recall (03:23)

• Details: Over 1 million Jeep Wrangler and Gladiator (2021–2025) vehicles recalled due to a wiring harness issue affecting the power steering system.
• Consumer Impact:
  • Owners strongly advised not to park in garages or near other vehicles (03:54).
  • Letters about the recall and fix will be sent starting July 9th (04:03).
  • Tom reassures listeners: “I imagine this is not a super difficult fix. It sounds like a wiring harness thing. You have to bring your vehicle in.” (04:08)
• Clarification: This recall is separate from earlier hybrid Jeep 4xe recalls (04:15).

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2. Preview: Mitsubishi Eclipse Sportback EV (04:24)

• Background: Mitsubishi’s new EV crossover is essentially a restyled Nissan Leaf, thanks to Nissan-Mitsubishi’s ongoing alliance.
• Design Impressions:
  • Jill praises its appearance: “It looks more mainstream than a Leaf—less funky, more modern... and the navy blue paint is gorgeous.” (05:39)
  • “It’s a really nice, affordable, well-rounded vehicle that’s comfortable, has up-level interior materials…” (06:19)
• Specs & Market Fit: Priced under $30,000, about 300 miles of range, compatible with Tesla and J1772 chargers.
• Industry Outlook: Tom is cautious on sales potential: “There's not enough Mitsubishi dealers for this to maybe have an impact… but it might make a few magazine covers.” (05:18)
• Jill’s optimism: “They need an infusion of something—hopefully this helps them come back.” (07:02)

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3. Review: Mercedes E53 AMG Plug-in Hybrid Wagon (08:34)

• Rarity Acknowledged: “Of all the station wagons sold last year, almost all were Subaru Outbacks. The rest—tiny numbers—came from Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, and Audi.” – Tom (08:37)
• Driving Experience:
  • Jill: “It’s everything I could possibly want: plenty of cargo space, comfortable seats, great visibility… ridiculously fast.” (09:54–10:47)
  • She’s seen 48–50 miles of electric range (EPA estimate: 41 miles). “I haven’t needed the gas at all driving around town.” (09:50)
  • Incredible power: “Mercedes quotes 0 to 60 in 4 seconds flat from 577 horsepower.” – Tom (10:47)
  • “My neighbor said ‘Damn, that’s a nice car’—and it really is.” – Jill (11:10)
  • Jill notes that integration between electric and gas power is so smooth, she hadn’t even noticed the switch-over happening (13:44).
• Downsides:
  • Price: “Starting price is $94,000; this tester was $111,000.” (13:59–14:12)
  • Tech: Mixed feelings about the 3D digital instrument cluster (“blurry unless you focus just right”) and ultra-bright ambient lighting (12:40).
• Perks:
  • Standard Burmester surround sound (“Looks good, sounds really good too.” – Jill, 14:32)
  • Good for city driving: “Easy to maneuver, fits in tight spaces, comfortable for longer trips.” (12:54)

Memorable Quote:

“If you are looking for an SUV, I implore you to also check out a wagon.” – Jill (13:05)

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4. Industry Deep Dive with Larry Vellequette (16:00–39:00)

a. Role & Focus (16:36)

• Larry covers Toyota, Subaru, and Mazda for Automotive News, which remains one of the few outlets with beat reporters by automaker.

b. Toyota V6 Engine Recall (18:13)

• Scope: Primarily impacts Tundra and Lexus GX, due to engine debris causing engine failure.
• Toyota’s Response: “They’re just gonna make it right and put new engines in… even giving owners the choice to keep using their original engine until it’s near failure.” – Larry (18:58)
  • “The engine switch didn’t fix the problem—they’re still having issues, at plants in both the US and Japan.” (19:30)
  • Root cause: Pandemic-era (“Covid design”) and remote engineering suspected as the culprit (20:00).
  • Advice: “If you own one, I’d beat the heck out of it, then take it in when it’s dying—Toyota will put a new engine in for you.” – Larry (22:02)

c. The Gordie Howe Bridge Saga (22:15)

• Importance: Critical second bridge linking Detroit and Canada’s auto industries, heavily used for cross-border supply chains.
• Delay & Politics:
  • Canada offered to pay for and build the bridge (“All you have to do is man the U.S. side.” – Larry, 23:19).
  • Larry cites political and donor complications (24:22), and a “want it for less than free” negotiation attitude from U.S. officials.
  • The existing bridge is privately owned, compounding the delay; major truck traffic jams impact US-Canada manufacturing (25:01).

d. Why Are U.S. Car Sales Still Robust? (26:39)

• Despite weak consumer confidence, inflation, & high prices ($2,000 avg. increase year-over-year, 27:52), annualized sales (SAR) estimated at 16 million vehicles—holding steady (28:22).
• Unanswered Question: “I don’t know what’s driving consumers to jump into new vehicles if they don’t have to.” – Larry (28:48)
• Possible Answers:
  • Residual COVID demand? Maybe, but “we’re at the oldest point ever for the average car on the road.” (29:07)
  • Loan terms: “Seven- and even ten-year loans… I think it’s nuts, but it makes new cars ‘affordable’ on paper.” – Jill (30:47), Larry concurs.
  • Market shift: The industry may have permanently lost its most price-sensitive customers to the used market (31:13–33:07).

e. The Coming Solid-State Battery Revolution (34:13)

• Toyota’s prototype: “It’s about the size of a large briefcase… They believe it will last 40 years!” – Larry (35:23)
• Industry Disruption:
  • “Imagine: finance a battery for ten years, swap out cars around it. The car becomes the commodity, the battery the value.” (35:58)
  • Potential to vastly lower the cost of vehicles over a battery’s lifetime.
• Challenges:
  • Lack of universal battery standards could limit swapability (37:49).
  • Might fundamentally change how Americans view car/battery ownership (38:14)
• Hosts' Reaction: “If you’re 25 and buy a car, that’s your battery for life.” – Tom (38:46)
  • Jill: “That’s crazy!”

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5. Other Notable Topics & Fun

• Quiz Segment (41:59): Playful “Who Was That Guy?” car history quiz (Alfred P. Sloan, Felix Wankel, John Z. DeLorean...), light banter on Hallmark movies vs. car trivia.
• Ferrari’s First Electric Vehicle – Luce (48:41):
  • “Looks like a Nissan Leaf,” jokes Jill. The powder blue color doesn’t help, hosts agree.
  • Design is a radical break, partly due to influence of ex-Apple designer Jony Ive (50:53).
  • Spec: ~€550,000 (≈$640,000), 1000 hp, details to come on production volume.
  • Ferrari limits production to protect exclusivity.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Jeep Recall:

  “It’s totally ominous. You want to heed that—park in the back of the lot, people.”
  – Tom & Jill (03:58)

• On Mitsubishi’s Prospects:

  “They need an infusion of something… I have high hopes for this.” – Jill (06:47)

• On Mercedes E53 Wagon’s Appeal:

  “It's everything I could possibly want in a vehicle.” – Jill (10:22)
  “My neighbor said, ‘Damn, that's a nice car’—and it really is.” – Jill (11:09)

• On the Toyota V6 Recall:

  “If you own one, I’d beat the heck out of it, then… say ‘I want a new engine’ and they’ll put one in.” – Larry (22:02)
  “The recall rates we’re seeing right now [across all brands] are because these vehicles were designed during COVID.” – Larry (21:26)

• On Robust Sales in a Shaky Economy:

  “Autos are a leading indicator… but all indicators are down. I can't explain why sales are this strong.” – Larry (27:07)

• On Solid-State Batteries:

  “If the battery lasts 40 years… You can finance it for 10 and swap out cars around it. Everything’s topsy-turvy then.” – Larry (35:58)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:23] – Jeep recall: problem, scale, safety advice
• [04:24] – Mitsubishi Eclipse Sportback EV: Nissan connection, first impressions
• [08:34] – State of the station wagon: Mercedes E53 AMG review
• [16:00] – Guest interview: Larry Vellequette joins the show
• [18:13] – Inside the Toyota V6 recall saga
• [22:15] – The Gordie Howe Bridge: why it matters to automakers
• [26:39] – Robust U.S. auto sales defy economic headwinds
• [34:13] – Toyota’s solid-state battery: details and industry-shaking implications
• [41:59] – Fun car/personality quiz segment
• [48:41] – Ferrari Luce: first all-electric Ferrari, daring design, and a jab at Nissan Leaf inspiration

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Host & Social Details

• Jill and Tom invite listeners to find them on social media for daily car content.
• Jill: @jillsimonello on all major platforms, daily car video updates.
• Tom: @CarGuyTom on Twitter/X and Bluesky.
• Podcast also available at consumerguide.com.

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This episode is a standout for its blend of practical news, critical consumer advice, hands-on reviews, and industry analysis—delivered with warmth, humor, and a nod to auto history and pop culture. Essential listening for anyone interested in where the car world is heading!

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Transcript

[A]

Whether you drive a car, need a car, or just occasionally bum a ride with friends, you've come to the right place. Join Jill and Tom as they break down everything that's going on in the auto world. New car reviews, shopping tips, driving green electric cars, classic cars, and plenty of great guests. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast.

[B]

All right. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I am Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. Thank you, thank you for joining us this week. When you have a moment, when you have a chance, do me a big favor. Check us out@consumer guide.com While you're there, check out our 2026 Best Buy picks. If you were shopping for a new car, this list is super handy. You can also stream this very podcast right there on our homepage though you should subscribe also, Jill, people should leave us reviews. Yes, reviews are helpful.

[C]

Reviews are very helpful.

[B]

Yep, that voice is Jill Simonello. She is contributing editor here at Consumer Guide North American Car of the Year juror and freelancer. What do you, what do you freelanced recently?

[C]

What have I freelanced recently? Well, I'm currently working on a series of previews for on current model year vehicles for Cargurus and just wrote a review of the Mercedes GLE for US news.

[B]

So CarGurus, that's a commerce site, right? You can go there, look for cars.

[C]

Yep, look for cars. But they also have reviews and previews.

[B]

So how are you doing? What's that?

[C]

I said and buying guides. Good, good. No, I'm doing well. I have, as I mentioned in the last episode, I've been embroiled in a battle with pigeons on my balcony and I'm now five days pigeon free. So

[B]

I live in a neighborhood that made terrible, terrible mistakes about starting starting two years ago. And, and by we, I mean collectively the neighborhood has made terrible mistakes, mostly in feeding cats. Oh, and I've been watching this woman all day long trying to trap cats and I don't know how that's going, but one of the things that they do, you trap a cat, you have it neutered or spayed and then you bring it back.

[C]

Yep, they do that a lot in Chicago.

[B]

And then that kitty can go to town but can't really spread the genetic love.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah, I think I said that in a G rated way. We have Bodhi coming up on the show soon. He's the host of Kilowatt. He's done another one of his earnings calls and he makes these really easy if you're sort of interested in the financial element of this business and you find earnings calls boring, which they are.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And you kind of can't make sense of all the numbers. Bode does that. He breaks it down. He summarizes and he gets it done in a fairly short amount of time. So worth listening to. But his Ford. His Ford earnings call podcast is up right now.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm a little bit behind on my podcast saying I. But I just listened to his Tesla earnings call and what he does that I think is really interesting is he pulls out excerpts of the call. So you hear Elon Musk talking and then he backs out. And he was like, what I think this actually means is blank. So he does a really good job of like allowing you to hear, you know, the words from the person and then it's explaining what that actually means.

[B]

And that's useful stuff. Massive, massive Jeep recall. Did you see this?

[C]

I did. I did.

[B]

One million units. That's a one and six zeros. One million units of the 21 through 25 Wrangler and Gladiator. Fairly simple problem. It has something to do with the wiring harness and the power steering system. But this is a out and away warning. They don't want you to park in a garage or near other vehicles.

[C]

Doesn't that sound scary? And it kind of is.

[B]

It is. It's totally ominous. But you want to heed that.

[C]

Park in the back of the lot. People.

[B]

People will get word. The Letters go out July 9th. So they'll talk about a fix. I imagine this is not a super difficult fix. It sounds like a wiring harness thing. You have to bring your vehicle in.

[C]

Yeah. And this is separate from the 4Xe recalls that we have seen previously. This is on their just regular non hybrid vehicles.

[B]

This has got nothing to do with the hybrids.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well it may, it may include the hybrids, but there you have that Mitsubishi. You wanted to talk about this. This is interesting. And we should have predicted this one. This one seems so easy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Mitsubishi sells a vehicle called the Eclipse Cross. That's a small crossover and that borrows its name from the legendary Eclipse, which very popular sports during the 80s and 90s. Mostly in the 90s, but that was a hot little car. Now it's a crossover. Not so hot. But the Eclipse Sportback ev, due out later this year is an electric version

[C]

of the Nissan Leaf.

[B]

The Nissan Leaf and Nissan and Mitsubishi have been working together for a long time. So this sort of makes sense. This helps Nissan get a little scale and this helps Mitsubishi state in the news and kind of tech and maybe Even sell some vehicles. That may not happen. There's not enough Mitsubishi dealers for this to maybe have an impact. And I don't know what their marketing money is like for an EV at this point, but it could be a really nice take on that vehicle.

[C]

Yeah, well, and I don't know if you've seen any of the pictures, but I think it looks really handsome actually.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

From the, the tail end with the tail lights. It, you know, it doesn't have the 3D tail lights that you see on the Nissan Leaf, but it has a attractive tail end. And the headlights, like if you look at some of the Mitsubishi vehicles, the headlights are like, ooh, a little bit polarizing. But this, this actually has in my mind a little bit more of a Nissan esque vibe. But it has a Mitsubishi take on it with like these headlights that kind of like see around and then have like lines going down. I don't know, I just, I think this is a less funky looking version of the Nissan Leaf. I think it looks a little bit more mainstream and I mean the, the pictures I've seen have all been in this beautiful navy blue color. So that is also helpful. But you know, when you look at what the Nissan Leaf is being, you know, an affordable EV, less than $30,000, getting about 300 miles of electric range, having Tesla charging as well as your. Was it J1772 like level 2 charging capabilities. You know, you have this really nice, affordable, well rounded vehicle that's comfortable, has up level interior materials. I mean it looks very modern. But I, I don't know. I have high hopes for this for Mitsubishi. They certainly need an infusion of something and I, you know, I think this is hopefully just a step, a stepping stone in, in, you know, helping them come back because I believe they have quite a lot of product coming in the next couple of years.

[B]

We've been hearing that for a long time though, so I would like, I

[C]

think it's real this time.

[B]

Yeah, I do not have high hopes for volume here, but it might be an interesting vehicle and it can't hurt Mitsubishi at this point to make a few magazine covers and to be known for selling something that's tech. And as you noted, the price points are interesting. Between 30 and 40 grand, up to 300 miles of range. So can't hurt. And Mitsubishi's take on the Outlander, which is more or less based on the Nissan Rogue, is very nice. That's a, that's a very nice interior, that is a very nice ride and handling vehicle. So they can do nice things with stuff.

[C]

Nice things with stuff.

[B]

Nice things with stuff. Which is a great name for an album.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Nice things with stuff. We haven't talked much about donuts lately, but Mork's Chocolate and Palatine's Donut of the Week is lemon.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Lemon. It doesn't help us a lot. We're not there.

[C]

No.

[B]

There you have it.

[C]

Are you gonna make me make like vegan gluten free donuts again and deliver them to you? Because I could do that.

[B]

I would prefer they weren't vegan or

[C]

gluten free, but because I did that during the pandemic I remember I made. They were good.

[B]

Much appreciated.

[C]

They were good. They were chocolate.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

All right.

[B]

You just drove something incredibly weird and rare. The station wagon as we know it is virtually dead. I just did some checking. Of all the station wagons sold last year, almost all of them were Subaru outbacks. And then a tiny number, a tiny number came from Mercedes Benz, BMW, Volvo and Audi. And by tiny, I mean tiny number of them. But you just drove a really interesting, even more tiny volume vehicle. Mercedes sells two wagons. They're basically the same thing. They're based on the E class sedan. I drove one once. It was fantastic car. But there is a base version that is more or less off roady they call the All Terrain. And now there's a plug in hybrid.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

You drove the plug in hybrid?

[C]

Yes, yes. And I mean, do tell. I've driven both of these wagons now and this E53 is new in the United States for 20, 26. It has a plug in Hybrid Powertra. EPA estimates that you get 41 miles of electric range. But on the trip computer I've been seeing like 48 to 50 miles of electric range. I haven't put that to the test

[B]

yet, but I mean, in very nice weather, right?

[C]

Yeah, in very nice weather. And. But I've been tooling around town and I haven't needed the gas at all. I think when they delivered the vehicle to me, they put a hold on the, the, the electricity and they drove it in gas because my fuel economy isn't. I think it's about 40 miles per gallon right now. And so they drove it here using gas, but I've only used electric since I've had it. And I plugged it into my 110, you know, jack in my garage. And I think it's, it's, I mean, it is everything I could possibly want in a vehicle. Plenty of cargo space, really comfortable seats, great visibility. Out of all of the windows. It's narrow enough that it's easy to maneuver in tight city spaces. And it is powerful enough that when you go to merge on the highway or take off from a stop sign or a red light, you've got all the power at your fingertips that you could possibly want.

[B]

It's ridiculously fast. Mercedes quotes 0 to 60 in 4 seconds flat from 577 horsepower.

[C]

Hey O. I know. I mean, it is just one of those phenomenal vehicles. And it's funny because one of my neighbors in the garage saw me and they were like, damn, that's a nice car. And I was like, yeah, I wish it was mine, because it really is. I mean, from the fuel economy, like just tooling around in the city, like, I would never have to dip into the gas engine. But, you know, driving to and from Indianapolis as I do, you know, I would have that backup of the gasoline engine so I don't have to stop in Lafayette, Indiana in the back of a Walmart parking lot to charge. And so it's, to my mind, it's one of the best of both worlds because you have a nice amount of range and then you have that backup and you can drive distance if you need to. You know, the seats are comfortable. The tech is Mercedes. It's a little ott. You have a lot of screens. In addition to like the, the center stack infotainment screen and the digital display. You have a passenger screen. And I haven't dug into the workings of the, the screen behind the wheel yet, but it's 3D and it's driving me crazy because, like, when I look at it sometimes it, it's blurry and then like, I'll focus on it and then it comes into focus and. But. But it's just like if you glance at it, it's not always in focus. I'm like, I wonder if you can take that out of 3D. So I need to figure that out. But the ambient lighting is crazy bright, but you can dim it and you have a lot of different options. So to me, it's just this very futuristic, interesting vehicle. And, and you know, living in the city as I do it is again, great for tight city spaces. I get in and out of my garage, no problem, and you know, tight parking spaces and really crowded lots. So I have just thoroughly enjoyed my, my test time in this. And it is, you know, one of those vehicles that I think will be overlooked by a lot of people because they're going for the larger SUVs. But if you are looking for an SUV I implore you to also check out a wagon if you're looking for

[B]

something a little different.

[C]

Yeah. And this is definitely different.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, if you're like some kind of weird cool author, you know, who's independently wealthy and, and you collect sheepdogs or something, this is your car. I did want to point something out though. Even in electric only mode, you're going to be tapping the gasoline engine. When you use a lot of power, something like 200 horsepower comes from the electric motor. That'll get you around town and on the highway just fine. But if you hit the gas hard, the what should be, and you'll tell me if it is, should be super smooth Mercedes inline six, which is turbocharged and hybrid kicks in. Is that integration smooth?

[C]

I haven't experienced it yet, so I'm gonna have to like go and really mash the pedal down somewhere because I have not switched into the gas engine at all.

[B]

All right.

[C]

So I do have one downside that I want to share.

[B]

Yeah. It's the price.

[C]

I assume it is the price. I mean, the starting price for this vehicle is like 94,000 doll sticker sheet with optional equipment. And this had a lot of optional equipment was $111,000.

[B]

Wow. How's the stereo?

[C]

The stereo is really good, but is that the burmester?

[B]

I'm like the available Burmester with the really cool steel guitar speaker grills? Yeah. That is sweet. I'm a total sucker for that look.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And totally. It totally classes up the interior.

[C]

It. Well, it looks good and it sounds really good as well. And I will say on this vehicle, the burmester surround sound system is not optional. It is standard on this vehicle.

[B]

Oh, that's cool.

[C]

That is one thing that you get included for the price.

[B]

I wonder if that's standard on AMG products.

[C]

It could be.

[B]

We should say that the base vehicle, the all terrain, starts at $80,000. So to go with the sportier version of this vehicle with the plug in hybrid, adds 15 grand to your bottom line.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

All right, we have to take a break. When we come back, we talk to Larry Veliquette of Automotive News. I'm excited.

[C]

Me too.

[B]

All right, stick around.

[A]

Questions or comments? Drop us a line at car [e-mail] that's car [e-mail]. Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.

[B]

And we're back. This is the consumer. Welcome to the Consumer Guide Car Stuff podcast. I'm Tom Appel, publisher of Consumer Guide Automotive. With me is Jill Simonello. Jill, how's it going?

[C]

It is going well. Thank you.

[B]

Yeah, doing good.

[C]

Yeah. I finally have a pigeon free balcony.

[B]

I, I have a new microphone. Tell me it sounds great.

[C]

It sounds great.

[B]

Okay, good. I feel better. You and I get a lot of our news from the same place we do. And that's the Automotive News Daily Drive podcast which is super essential, I think to keeping up in the industry. On the phone with us for the first time ever is Larry Veliquet. He is senior staff reporter at Automotive News and he covers the Toyota, Mazda, Subaru beat and he's going to talk cars with us for a little while. Larry, how are you?

[D]

Tom? I'm doing great, Joe. It's wonderful to see and hear you again.

[B]

It is very good of you to make time for us. This has been a crazy, crazy year in the auto industry following a crazy, crazy year and there's so much stuff going on I don't even know where to begin. But real quick, tell us what it is you do at Automotive News and, and a little bit about your beat.

[D]

Yeah. So I have been at Automotive news. It'll be 15 years.

[B]

Wow.

[D]

This November and that was after 25 and a half years at a newspaper. Automotive News for those that don't know, is a business to business publication that comes out weekly. But our website, autonews.com is, comes out all the time. It's never ending. And we, I cover Toyota, Subaru and Mazda. We have, we're one of the few publications that still have reporters on specific automaker beats.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So that it, it, it's a luxury. We also still have a copy desk which is a little insider baseball. But it is a, it is a luxury position to be in as a journalist.

[B]

It sounds like a good gig just because you are surrounded by quality people.

[D]

Oh, it's fantastic.

[B]

The content you guys generate and the insights that you guys share. Absolutely worth hearing. And anyone not familiar with you guys should check out the Daily Drive podcast. It is so good. It is so. Yeah. I love it and I swear by it. I wanted to ask you a little bit about Toyota, your, your primary beat. For years and years and years we always just assume that Toyota's got things where they should be. They've got it figured out, it's working good, things are going great. But lately a couple of, a couple of chinks in the armor and I wanted to ask you a little bit about one of them. There's a huge V6 recall that seems to not be happening and that just seems like money that they're going to have to dish out at some point.

[D]

This, you know, this recall has been, it's been fascinating to watch, number one. And it's, it's fascinating. These are, these are V6 recalls primarily for the Tundra, the Toyota Tundra full size pickup and then the Lexus G6. I'm sorry, GX, not the G6. The Lexus GX was impacted. A couple of smaller vehicles as well, or other vehicles as well of that size. What's fascinating is that it's a recall because of debris that gets in the engine and it's ruining engines. And last year Toyota faced with this giant recall, over a hundred thousand vehicles, Toyota said, all right, well we're just gonna, we're just gonna, we're gonna make it right and we'll put new engines in these vehicles, you know, and we'll wait. If consumers want them now, they can get them now or they can drive the heck out of their engine, their current engine, and then we'll just give them a new one. So that's where they were. And what's fascinating though is that it didn't solve the issue that they, they. The engine switch over didn't solve the issue. They're still having problems with it.

[B]

Huh?

[D]

It, it's, it's crazy because it wasn't just one plant. There's not just one engine plant. It's an engine plant in the US and it's an identical engine plant in Japan that are having the same issue. Right. This is not, yeah. This is not something that you would normally see. You would, you know, if, if there was a quality issue, you would trace it. They, whenever there's a recall, they trace it back. They try to figure out what went wrong. Generally it's, you know, it's one operation at one location. Here you have two plant, two different plants on two different continents making, making the same engine and they're both messed up.

[B]

So it feels like a deeper design issue then. Like obviously it's further up the, up the design chain. Are they still replacing the engines? Have they paused doing that?

[D]

Well, they, they are still replacing the engines and they're, they're standing by that guarantee.

[B]

That's good.

[D]

Yeah. So they're, they're going to treat consumers. Right, which is something that Toyota is, is known for. So that's not, that really is, I think, not a worry for consumers. But I would say that it's worth noting that in talking with the chief engineer for these, for these products, he pointed out that this engine was designed during co. When, when the engineering teams around the World were all working apart and, and trying to work remotely. And if you looked at, you look at recall rates right now across the board, this is playing out everywhere. Yeah, yeah. Toyota has this specific issue. But the recall rates that we're seeing right now are because these vehicles were designed during co. That's interesting.

[B]

And it was funny how actively the manufacturers were encouraging people to work from home for a little while and then now they really want them to come back. Mary Barra really wants them to come back. So very interesting thing. And obviously now they're pointing to problems that came from this.

[D]

Yeah. And they're going to be living with them for a while.

[B]

So just kind of a nutshell thing. I want to move on to a different topic, but you're sort of suggesting that if you own one of these, it's not a problem, Toyota will stand by the thing. And if you want to beat the crap out of your vehicle, you can because they're still going to fix the engine.

[D]

I would, yeah, I'd beat the heck out of it. And then, and you know, take it, take it down with, with 20 miles to go and say, hey, I want a new engine and they'll put one in for you. All right.

[B]

I got a question for you. It's not on your beat, but I know you've been talking about it. The Gordie Howe Bridge. I don't think, I don't think the average person knows how important this is or how frustrating this is.

[D]

Yes. Yeah. For those, for those of you not Michiganders, and that's the proper term, by the way, not Michiganians, Michiganders. The Gordie Howe Bridge is the second bridge that connects, that will connect Detroit and Canada. Windsor, Ontario specifically. It is a multi billion dollar bridge that has been needed for the better part of 50 years. It was so needed and there was so much political turmoil in Michigan trying to get it built that the government of Canada several years ago said, we will pay for it, we will build it. All you have to do is man the US side.

[B]

All right.

[D]

Okay.

[B]

Seems like a good deal.

[C]

I know it doesn't seem like it would be that hard.

[D]

Pretty great deal as, as infrastructure goes. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

So the, what happened is that we have a change in administrations and a different relationship than, than traditionally we have held with Canada.

[B]

Right.

[D]

And the Trump administration now says after, after, by, by the way, a million dollar donation from the owner of the other bridge in Detroit.

[B]

Crazy.

[D]

Which is. Yeah. It just lets you know this international bridge, this first international bridge called the Ambassador Bridge, privately owned, has been for decades. The owner of that bridge made a very large donation and suddenly the it. The much needed second bridge, the opening has been delayed. Even though it's, it's beautiful, it looks great from the road, but you can't drive on it yet.

[C]

Yeah, because it was supposed to open last Friday, right?

[D]

Yes, yes, initially. But is it. It has been delayed because the Trump administration apparently wants it more than free because right now it's a free bridge for US Taxpayers. He wants a better deal. More than free. After Canada built this bridge. So we are waiting for people who

[B]

don't understand the situation. It is actually famously difficult to drive from Windsor to Detroit via the Ambassador Bridge. Like a crazy number of stoplights, all sorts of slowing down and the truck jams.

[D]

The truck traffic is insane because that is the busiest crossing between the, you know, between the US and its largest trading partner. It is a. Yeah, very, very busy, busy bridge.

[B]

I think it was Mark Fields that was talking about something that was either built in the US Or Canada and going the other direction and that the actual assembly, the actual creation of the, of the part to being installed in a vehicle was like 45 minutes. So that supply chain was absolutely necessary and obviously compromised regularly by traffic on the Ambassador Bridge.

[D]

Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

[B]

Oh, man.

[D]

It happens all the time and you know, they just, they just have to live with it. But when you build stuff, you know, with just in time parts, that's what happens.

[B]

How do you feel about it being called Gordie Howe? Just asking.

[D]

I think it's. I think it's fantastic.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

It is the absolute best name that, that they could have come up with. Gordie Howe, for those of you who don't know, played for the Detroit Red Wings. He was Canadian and he was the, the legendary Detroit hockey player for the Red Wings and actually lived. Ended his, his days down by me in Sylvania, Ohio.

[B]

All right, well, cool then. It just seems very Canadian to name, to name a bridge for a hockey player.

[D]

Well, you know that. Just remember that bridge goes to Hockeytown, Detroit Fair Point. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, man. So we've got, we're coming up on the midpoint for the year. Is there anything that you're looking forward to or dreading in the next six months?

[D]

You know, the thing, the thing, and I'm just writing about this right now, actually. The thing that's really confusing me is why the market is as strong as it is.

[C]

Ah, yeah. And your thoughts are.

[D]

You know, I, I have a theory, but that's all it is. I can't Explain it every. You know, autos are traditionally a leading indicator. Right. And a leading economic indicator. People buy cars when they feel good about being able to make the payments. That's when they switch vehicles, unless they obviously have to because of an accident or something. But all the indicators, the consumer confidence is down, inflation is up, pricing. I don't know. If you guys look at the website, the average marketed price for a vehicle on sale in the US today is up $2,000 over. Over where it was a year ago. And that's, that's not just mix. That's. That's just price increases.

[B]

Yeah. So that's a solid 4% higher in a year.

[D]

Yes.

[B]

Four.

[D]

Yeah. 4% higher in a year. That is. That is really rough. And yet we are. We're looking at more than likely when, when Q2 reports here at the. At the beginning of next month, we're looking at probably, you know, 16 million. 16 million vehicle Ace. That we would end the year with. With having sold 60 million vehicles.

[B]

About the same as last year.

[D]

About the same as last year. Might be a little down, might be a little up. It's. It's going to depend. The second half of last year was a little softer than the first half because of the people rushing out to buy because of the tariffs and then the ending EV subsidies. But I just, I don't know what's driving consumers to jump into new vehicles if they don't have to.

[B]

Could it be just residual demand from COVID It would seem like we'd be past that by now.

[D]

I, you know, there is, there's probably something to that. There's. There's certainly some leftover. We are, you know, we're at the. As I'm sure Jill knows, we're at the oldest point that we have been in terms of the, you know, the age of our car park.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You know, our vehicles. That has continued to go up. But, you know, that's largely a reflection of quality, too, of the, you know, increased vehicle quality. But yeah, I think I. There's some leftover. There are some people who bought, you know, every. Almost everybody that bought during COVID Right. In. In 21 and 22, in 23, when we had the supply shortages. They're all upside down by significant amounts. They shouldn't be back in market.

[B]

No. I did notice something last week I wrote a review of the Hyundai Santa Fe hybrid calligraphy and in going researching that vehicle, one of the things I noticed is that Hyundai has added a base trim level to the hybrid side of that vehicle, which Seems like a very, very small crack in the egg, but a recognition perhaps that the car has got expensive, that they would add this base trim level. And I don't know if we're going to see that because mostly what we've seen in the last 18 months, 24 months is base models disappear. But if the market isn't growing and if interest rates are fixed and if people are upside down, I, I share your concern, Larry. Where, where are these sales coming from? And it feels like we're, we're coming up on what should be a very serious decline in sales.

[D]

Yeah, you know. Oh, go ahead.

[C]

I was gonna say I, I wonder if some of the, the ability to buy is coming from longer loan terms because, you know, traditionally it's been three, maybe five years, but I'm starting to see like seven 10 year loans. So I'm wondering that.

[D]

Crazy. That is nuts.

[C]

Beyond my comprehension. I mean I, yeah, beyond my comprehension, but, but I'm wondering if part of it is, you know, the loan terms.

[D]

I, well, that's certainly, I, I think that's certainly a factor. You're seeing people go into these longer terms and you know, frankly, the underwriting would probably support it because of the better quality. Right. If car is going to last longer perhaps now. Not that it makes more sense to, to take those longer long terms because you're certainly paying more with, with current interest rates. But I think the, the theory that I'm working on is that the, we basically have priced out, you know, the, this, what's called the sar, right. The, the selling, the selling rate was around 17 and it was, that was kind of the high water mark, the recent high water mark. And starting in about, In September of 24 or so, the people as prices went up because of COVID and because of the, you know, the inflation that was rolling through the economy at that point. People that were buying new, new vehicles or would have bought another new vehicle I think already left the market. And so if, if those folks left, if they're permanently in the, in the used vehicle market now going forward and we've reduced the overall number of buyers by about 2 million. You know, 2 million a year or 1 million or 2 million a year, then maybe, you know, we're at a point where it doesn't, we're not really cyclical anymore. Interesting that we're, you know, that if, if, if you've basically calved off the lower part of the auto purchasing public who don't, who are, you know, more exposed to economic, to the, you know, daily economic Indicators. The folks that are, you know, that are living pay to check to paycheck, but need transportation if they can no longer even consider a new vehicle, that has real long term implications for the whole industry.

[B]

It does. I remember too, Elon Musk famously saying that a good used car was going to be ride sharing or not ride sharing, ride hailing. But interestingly, and I cannot remember her name, she was a great guest on the podcast. Ford has a futurist who joined us for a visit once and one of the things that she pointed out, and this was interesting, is that the industry isn't too worried about ride hailing because the number of vehicle miles traveled isn't going to change, which means that actual vehicle consumption will remain relatively constant. But yes, people may be priced out at the bottom end of the thing and be dependent on ride sharing. A ride hailing. I'm sorry, I keep saying.

[D]

Yeah. Or, or used vehicles.

[B]

Yeah. It's interesting that the market isn't so worried, it seems, about losing customers. They're probably still going to be selling vehicles to somebody.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Or something.

[D]

Yeah, well, they, they all hope, don't they?

[B]

They do. Oh man. So crazy stuff. Larry, what else are you working on?

[D]

You know, I, I, I want to talk about something that, that I don't know. Jill, have you seen Toyota's solid state battery yet?

[C]

I've not seen it, no. Not irl.

[D]

So Toyota, like many automakers, is working on the solid state battery. And this fascinates me as a, you talk about futurists, right? About the future because of the potential that this vehicle has or that, that this technology has to upend our entire industry. The, the solid state battery, it's a, it's about the size of a large briefcase. Right.

[B]

Okay.

[D]

And they believe that this, when it, when they get this perfected and they're, they were planning to actually introduce it next year. I don't think that's going to happen anymore. I think that's going to get delayed. But they are, they believe that this battery will last 40 years.

[B]

Well, that's impressive.

[D]

Yes. And it, and it will last 40 years. It'll, and it's the size, like I said, it's the size of a large briefcase. Now this is where we have to think about this. Because if the battery lasts 40 years and that's the largest component that you purchase in an electric vehicle. Right. That's the largest driver of cost. You could, you can finance a battery for 10 years and swap out cars around it. Right.

[B]

That does, that does everything's topsy turvy, then.

[D]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Commodity. The commodity is the battery. That's the thing. You hold the commodity.

[D]

The commodity is. Yeah, the commodity is the car. Actually. The, the. No, you're right. That is a. It.

[B]

Well, what you're holding on to is the battery. And then you can replace the car if you want to. And the car won't be especially expensive because it won't have a drivetrain. Well, it'll have, it'll have motors, probably.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But maybe it's a skateboard. You don't need to do that.

[C]

Well, that's like the backward model that Vinfast was trying to go for, where they were going to be like selling you the car and then renting you the, the battery.

[D]

Yeah, but if this, if this works, right. Think about the change that this would drive across the entire industry.

[B]

It'd be huge.

[D]

It'd be enormous.

[B]

Larry, tell us a little bit about the potential gains from this particular battery. So this is a Toyota, a solid state battery.

[D]

It's a Toyota solid state battery.

[B]

What are they talking about in terms of just rough percentages of storage gains and.

[D]

Well, because it's not going to degrade like chemical batteries because it's solid state. The cost, the cost is going to be. It's going to be expensive. Right. But if it lasts 40 years, okay. You know, but they believe that, you know, you could, it will drive down the price of the surrounding car substantially.

[B]

I have one concern, and that is the American market in China, right. They have luck with replaceable batteries. Right. They actually have charging stations where they simply take a battery out, swap it for another battery.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that works. But it works also because manufacturers there's agreed on battery types, which is not something we have here. And you would have to get Americans to, to buy into this. And Americans don't love owning things they share.

[D]

Well, this, this, you wouldn't, you wouldn't share this battery.

[B]

I guess not. I guess not.

[D]

You would. You would keep it and then you would just load it into the car that you bought.

[B]

You know what's going to happen? Like grandpa's going to have a battery in the garage and like the kids are going to be like, hey, Grandpa, we need your battery.

[C]

I'd like to hear your battery.

[B]

Yeah, that's totally what's going to happen. But 40 years is a long time. We're already seeing that the lithium ion batteries in most car cars are going way beyond the service life of the vehicle. Like that, like at 100,000 miles are still like 90%, 85% intact. So that's working pretty well. But a battery that goes 40 years, that's like a 99 year lease. That's like forever.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And if you're 25 years old and you're buying a car, that is your battery for life, isn't it?

[D]

Isn't that crazy?

[B]

That is crazy. Oh, man. Larry, we run out of time. It was a joy talking to you. Tell us how people can keep track of what you're working on.

[D]

They can go to autonews.com and, and find us every day, all day, all the time. Myself and my fellow staffers at Automotive News, they can reach us on our podcast on Daily Drive or the Weekend Drive, which is our weekend show.

[B]

Also. The Daily Drive podcast is free. People need to know that.

[D]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Our subscription is not.

[C]

No.

[B]

Let me just add. Lord, no.

[C]

But worth every penny.

[B]

But it is worth it. You know why? It's totally worth it. And now I'm going long. The, the, the future product stuff is gold pipeline. It's pure gold. And I've mentioned to Joe, when you guys go to the NADA convention and you have, you have writers there and reporters there and dealers go into these dealer meetings drunk, see stuff they're not supposed to talk about, and then leave the meeting and immediately tell you guys everything. Best issue of the year. All these secrets are just blown. Yeah, that's a good time. Oh, man. Larry, thank you so much for your time today.

[D]

Tom, Jill, thank you so much. And it's been wonderful to talk to you.

[B]

We'll have to have you back on soon. That was Larry Veliquet with Automotive News. We're going to take a break and when we come back, Quiz time. Quiz time.

[A]

Questions or comments? Drop us a line at Car stuff@consumer guide.com that's car [e-mail]. Welcome back to the Car Stuff podcast.

[B]

All right, we're back. This is the Consumer Guide Car Stuff Podcast. I'm Tom Schwarzenegger. She is Jill. I'm having a pretty good time today.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Feeling good. Larry Veliquet. I want to have him back on often.

[C]

Yeah, he's great. He's a great guest.

[B]

He's a seer.

[C]

He has a seer.

[B]

He has an almost religious understanding of the auto industry.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

All right, we should talk very quickly about some social media stuff. Do tell.

[C]

Very quickly. You can find me at Jill Simonello on all the things. I post new videos every day to TikTok and Instagram. Instagram. And I occasionally can be found on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram, Blue sky threads, Twitter, all the things using the hashtag card as your.

[B]

There you go. I am car guy Tom on Twitter X AM Blue Sky. Also, if you hear this in time, which is super unlikely, I'm on WGN radio tonight at 8:15 with John Records Landecker.

[C]

Tonight being Monday being Monday.

[B]

That's correct. Not Tuesday. So, yeah, it. There's a good chance most people aren't going to get to this on time, but I wanted to throw it out there.

[C]

Okay. Just in case.

[B]

All right. All right. It's quiz time. Are you ready?

[C]

I am never ready, but go for it.

[B]

I have a fantastic topic for you today. The topic is, who was that guy? Are you ready? I'm just gonna give you a guy. You have to tell me who he was.

[D]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. I predict zero. I predict zero out of zero for Jill this week.

[B]

All right? I'm going to give you. I'm going to give you options, so it's not that hard.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Alfred P. Sloan. Was he the inventor of the rotary engine or a president of General Motors? Alfred P. Sloan.

[C]

That name does not sound familiar. So I'm going to go with no, it does not. General Motors.

[B]

You're going with General Motors? Yeah, you're correct. Alfred P. Sloan was the president of GM between 23 and 43. He was in the company, with the company longer than that. He was important for a couple of things. He was a good president. That's generally understood. But more important, he also got them through the Depression. He was. He's credited with the Slonian ladder, which is basically that every General Motors division, and there used to be a lot more of them, would be very specifically tied to someone's ability to pay and their expectations of a vehicle. So the. The way it worked, you know, it was Chevy, and then it was Pontiac, and then it was Oldsmobile, and then Buick and then Cadillac and in. There were other brands for a while that we don't talk about anymore. Viking, La Salle, Marquette, Lascelles were beautiful, by the way. But anyway, Alfred P. Sloan, you're on the board. You have one.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

All right. Felix Wankel.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Was he the inventor of the rotary engine or the founder of Firestone?

[C]

That was the rotary engine.

[B]

Yes, it was. It's in fact, it's the Wankel rotary. Yeah, he developed that in 1957 for Germany Car Co. NSU. You have two points. Oh, this one's a toughie. Harvey Firestone, Was he the founder of Firestone or the inventor of the turn signal?

[C]

Hopefully this is not a trick question, but I'm gonna go with Firestone.

[B]

No, you're thinking of Bob Firestone. No, I'm kidding. No, no. Yes. You've got three. You've already won. All right, five questions total, plus the bonus question. You need three for a victory. You've already won. We've got two more regular questions plus the bonus question.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

All right, number four. John Z. DeLorean. DeLorean. Was he the founder or the father of the Pontiac GTO or the inventor of the turbocharger?

[C]

Oh, I mean, you might know the

[B]

guy for something else.

[C]

Yeah, I'm like, obviously we know him because of the DeLorean. And, you know, back to the future. If you're not a car person, I'm gonna. Oh, I feel like he did work for GM for a while.

[B]

But was he the father of the gto?

[C]

I'm gonna say yes.

[B]

Yeah, he basically invented the muscle car.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

He was a cool guy. He got in a lot of trouble. Probably shouldn't have sold cocaine. Maybe not, but he joined Pontiac way back in 1956. The GTO was based on a couple of Ferraris that he liked, including the 250 GTO, and the GTO came out for 63.64. That's that story. The GTO is a cool car, and a lot of people don't know what the formula is for a muscle car. It was a mid sized car stuffed full of big size car engine, plus some stuff. Never adequate, but better brakes, better steering, roll bars and stuff like that. Ultimately, they were dangerous cars that were a blast to know about and drive. All right, you're four for four.

[C]

Wow. Never would have expected that.

[B]

All right, finally, Max Gale. Max Gale. Was he a designer at American Motors or did he play Wojahowitz on Barney Miller?

[C]

The name design does not sound familiar, but because I feel like this should be a car quiz.

[B]

Yeah, it should be.

[C]

I'm gonna go with the first one.

[B]

Yeah. No. Max Gale played wojo. I don't know how or why I'm suddenly following him on Facebook. He should be like 90. But Max Gale played Wojo. Dick Teague was sort of the last corporate designer at amc.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I think we lost him regionally recently. All right, I've got something here for you, I think. I hope you appreciate it. I need you to tell me which of the following is not a Hallmark Channel movie.

[C]

Okay, so this I. Thank you. Thank you for going back to the Hallmark Channel. So this is the bonus.

[B]

Yep. I didn't know this, and it frightens me. Since 2001 no. 2000. Hallmark has produced more than 1000 movies. By most estimates, not one of them is worth watching.

[C]

Okay. I do have to say, whenever I go to my mom's house, I'm always like, hallmark Channel, because she watches the news to like all, all the time. And I'm like, this is very depressing. Hallmark Channel.

[B]

Isn't that depressing?

[C]

Less depressing than the news.

[B]

Isn't there like one actress who's in every movie?

[C]

Pretty much. And she used to be on Days of Our Lives.

[B]

There you go.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm gonna give you four movies. You need to tell me which one is the fake.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Are you ready?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

National Park Romance, Marry Me at Christmas, Christmas in Belgrade, or the Mistletoe Secret.

[C]

I feel like the middle two are probably real. Read the first one and the last one. Again.

[B]

National Park Romance, the Mistletoe Secret.

[C]

I mean, National Park Romance sounds really boring.

[B]

Yes, it does.

[C]

I'm gonna go with that one.

[B]

No, Christmas in Belgrade is the fake. But if it matters, I'm sure these are all basically the same movie.

[C]

Yeah, all right. Yeah, they are. Yeah. It's typically, you know, girl leaves the big city, goes someplace in the wilderness, meets the boy who is a handyman, farmer, something like that. And then they try not to get together, but they get together and then she's going to go back to the big city, but stays.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

Yeah. That's it in a nutshell.

[B]

That's every plot. That's 1000 plots.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[B]

All right, I lost my notes. Here they are. Ferrari.

[C]

Luce.

[B]

Luce. Ferrari recently shook up the industry, freaked people out, made people mad, and got an awful lot of ink because they launched a new vehicle, revealed a new vehicle, and that is the Ferrari lucre. The big deal about the Ferrari Luce is it's the company's first ever electric, pure electric vehicle. And only the second ever four door Ferrari. But here's the deal. Ferrari, famous for its long, long, long term partnership with Italian design house Pininfarina, has been designing vehicles in house for a while with mixed results. I think most people think they still look. Cars still look good. And there's a car called the Roma which came out a couple years ago. Fantastic looking, it's. It's legendarily good looking Ferrari. But the Luce, the Luce, which is, I was going to say it's priced at 550, 000. Is that pounds or euro? I can't read my writing. I believe that's euro.

[C]

Euro.

[B]

$640,000. It's controversial.

[C]

So you want to know the first Thing that I said when I saw it, I said it looks like a Nissan Leaf.

[B]

It does. And the fact that they launched it in this powder blue color isn't helping.

[C]

Not a good idea. Because that was the halo color for the Nissan Leaf.

[B]

But there's a lot going on here and it's got this solid modular look to it. It's got the blue color and then it's got a black roof. And the two tone thing with a black roof, I think like Nissan kicks, you know, 24 grand. Not. Not most of a million dollars. So this is playing very weird with Ferrari lovers.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Ferrari claims that they wanted to make a stink and they wanted people to think hard about their vehicles moving forward, but a little weird. And here's the interesting stuff about this vehicle. One of the designers is a gentleman by the name of Joni Ives. Sir. Joni Ives, who was responsible. He worked at Apple and was responsible for the first iPhone and some subsequent iPhones. And you can see that if you look at this vehicle, you think, wow,

[D]

that's like an ipod.

[B]

And Apple actually was working on a car 10 years ago or so. The Apple car.

[D]

They.

[B]

Some of the stuff they showed cabinet looks like this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So it's a very weird thing to see. Ferrari Luce. We will share a picture on our Facebook page. But it does not look like a Ferrari. I don't know if this represents the future of Ferrari. I seriously doubt it.

[C]

Probably not.

[B]

But it's also electric. And one of the interesting things about electric supercars is that a lot of supercar manufacturers have come out and just said no one wants an electric supercar. I believe McLaren has said this. I believe Lamborghini has said this. But I've heard it from other places too. People don't want this. So it's interesting to see what Ferrari's doing here and that they would do something so darn controversial.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well.

[C]

And I don't know if you saw any of the Nissan like, and I don't know if it was Nissan proper or just like a dealership, but there, there have been some funny advertisements out where it shows like a Nissan Leaf and the Luce and they. It's like imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. And I'm like, wow.

[B]

Wow. Yeah. It's supposed to be. It's a thousand horsepower.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's probably lightning fast. Like just crazy fast. Ferrari fast. Probably. Probably fastest Ferrari ever.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But we'll see what happens when these things go on sale and how many they're going to make. One of the interesting thing that Ferrari does is it protects itself from overselling by limiting the number of things it manufactures. So we don't know how many they're going to make yet. I don't think we know. I haven't seen that number. But they're probably not going to. There probably won't be rebates.

[C]

I would guess not. I would guess not.

[B]

You know, a thousand bucks off and a year of free oil changes or something. All right. That's all I got. What do you got?

[C]

No, I mean that, that's about it as well. I, I, the, the, the Luce and the Mitsubishi Sportback have been the two things on my brain this past week.

[B]

Both electric.

[C]

Yep, it's electric.

[B]

All right. Well, guess what we did here?

[C]

We had a great show.

[B]

We did. Yeah. Big thanks to Larry Veliket of Automotive News. Love to have him back sometime. Thank you, Jill. Thank you to producer Margaret. Let's talk more about cars again next week. Next week.

[A]

Remember to check us [e-mail] the car stuff podcast is produced by J Turn Media. To advertise on the show, please drop us a line at Car Stuff consumer guide dot com.