← Chasing Life with Dr. Sanjay Gupta
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- [00:03]
Dr. Gupta
Hey there. Welcome to Paging Dr. Gupta. Thank you so much for joining us. It has been a summer of extreme weather.
- [00:10]
Sanjay
Smoke from explosive wildfires in Canada is
- [00:13]
Announcer 1
spreading into the United States.
- [00:15]
Derek Van Dam
Life threatening flooding hitting Texas. The National Weather Service elevated their warning to a flash flood emergency in some areas.
- [00:24]
Sanjay
Spain and France are now facing their fourth heat wave this summer which is now threatening to make wildfire conditions even worse.
- [00:31]
Dr. Gupta
But we could have said that about last summer.
- [00:34]
Announcer 1
We're standing by for an update any moment from Texas officials on the devastating flooding that has killed at least 51 people.
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Announcer 2
It is yet another very hot day across huge parts of Europe. The big peak of this heat wave appears to have been on Tuesday when
- [00:49]
Dr. Gupta
records were reached and the summer before.
- [00:53]
Announcer 2
It's been a week and a half since Hurricane Helene wreaked havoc across the Southeast. The powerful rains washing away entire communities and its impact is far reaching.
- [01:02]
Derek Van Dam
In fact, just last week, New Delhi recorded its hottest temperatures ever in history.
- [01:10]
Dr. Gupta
The world is feeling the effects of climate change and so are our bodies. So today we're going to take a look at the intersection of climate and health and what you can possibly do about it. Right after this short break.
- [01:26]
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- [01:42]
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- [01:57]
Dr. Gupta
Welcome back. So my colleague Derek Van Dam has seen a lot of those scary news headlines up close. In fact, he's reported on them for CNN as a weather anchor and a meteorologist. I invited him on the show today to talk about how our warming planet has shaped his career and also how it might be affecting your health. Derek, thanks so much for being here. First of all, how did you get interested in weather?
- [02:22]
Derek Van Dam
I've been fascinated with the atmosphere since I was a small boy. There's been something about it. I mean, basically the tree fort that I built in the front of my house was blown over by a strong gust of wind in a thunderstorm or a tornado. And I was, from that day forward, I was like, what is going on here? Why did that happen? I'm equally happy and equally sad and intrigued at the same time.
- [02:42]
Sanjay
And how long have you been reporting on it?
- [02:44]
Derek Van Dam
I would say professionally since 2004. So we're going over two decades, 22 years.
- [02:50]
Sanjay
How different is your job now? Versus then what do you see that's different, that's happening in weather and climate?
- [02:56]
Derek Van Dam
I've been responsible now since working at CNN for the Earth's extreme weather and environment climate events, you know, and that just puts a whole different perspective on your lens on how you look at the world and the environment and atmospheric sciences versus working local television, which I did for a period of my career, but a very small period. But opening it up to this global perspective widened my eyes to what kind of climate emergency we are actually in.
- [03:29]
Sanjay
You're saying it's gotten worse?
- [03:31]
Derek Van Dam
100%. I unequivocally just even over your reporting career, I've seen it with my own eyes.
- [03:38]
Sanjay
We're going to talk about this intersection between climate and health. But I'm just wondering, when you think about this topic, what are the top lines for you? How do you sort of contextualize it with all that, you know?
- [03:54]
Derek Van Dam
So I guess I can use my frontline experience as a way to topline it. Right? You're privy to a front seat of the changes in our climate when you're reporting on it on a daily basis. But you also get to see the individual nuances. Over the years, you start to pick up on the differences between, okay, you know, that storm surge with this amount of sea level rise has impacted this area differently than the last storm that I saw here in Tampa, for instance. You know, when you witness it with your own eyes, it kind of changes things. It's one thing to capture it on film, or it's one thing to see it on a social media post. Then the next thing you know, you realize that you're taking a picture of it, and then the next thing you realize that you're part of it. That's a whole different perspective.
- [04:43]
Sanjay
I think I told you this once, but we used to have this house in South Carolina and we bought it the year my daughter was born, 2005, and we sold it in 2022. So we had about 17 years. The first 10 years that we were there, there was not a single named storm. And we always worried about that because you'd have to go, you know, put boards on the windows and all that sort of stuff. And then the next seven years there was 10 changed. Is that just sort of an aberration? Again, this is your world. You've been doing this for a long time. Is this a pendulum swing, you know, in terms of what we're seeing? Or do you think this is a linear trajectory towards getting worse and worse?
- [05:19]
Derek Van Dam
I do not see this as a Swing. I see this as an irreversible course correction. Unfortunately, I wish it wasn't, but, you know, there is scientific evidence that it is hard to refute when you start talking about an increased temperature across the planet. The planet has the ability to hold more moisture content. Right. Water vapor.
- [05:46]
Sanjay
Yeah.
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Derek Van Dam
So that allows storms like hurricanes to produce more rain. You know, I was in Hurricane Harvey in Houston, and we saw 50 inches of rain fall from the sky in a flat land. I mean, the water has nowhere to go but up. That's incredible. And to see those things with your own eyes, and then to understand the physics behind it, you go, okay, something's changing here. And we're seeing it in real time. And it just continues to get worse.
- [06:10]
Sanjay
Wildfires have been in the news a lot lately. People who've been watching you on television. Southern Canada, northern Minnesota. At one point, there was 120 million Americans under air quality warnings. That's incredible. I mean, it's a third of the country, you know, roughly what's going on with these. And can you. Can you explain, like when we're hearing about the wildfires in France and Spain, these things called fire clouds, what does that mean?
- [06:39]
Derek Van Dam
Fire cloud is a phenomenon that we're seeing more and more of. It's basically the vegetation, or I should say the wildfire that occurs is becoming so intense that it's creating its own weather patterns. And this can happen because the vegetation has been so dry, it's been zapped of its moisture, which is a byproduct of climate change. I mean, there's so much. We can relate back and forth to this, but it's. It's got such an intense updraft associated with it, cause heat rises. So what that does is it creates a thunderstorm cloud above it, because as those air particles rise into the atmosphere, they cool, condense, and then eventually you've got a thunderstorm. But a lot of times those thunderstorms don't have any rain with them, so they'll have dry lightning, and that will spark additional fires. It's got a downflow component to it as well, or a downdraft component with it. And that can also take embers and spread them further and further. So there's this feedback cycle that happens with climate change. We warm. The landscape is being dramatically altered in a way that not only is it easier to spark a wildfire in our current day and age, but it's harder to put them out. We also no longer have. I mean, you may recall this. It used to be a wildfire Season. We talk about it for a few months over the Western U.S. for instance, well, now it's almost being referred to as the year of the wildfire or a wildfire year because they're occurring outside of the normal months that we were maybe used to, has children or something. So, for example, the LA wildfire is happening, you know, during, I believe that was January. So it's just, you know, think about that time of the year when you have such ferocious wildfires. So, you know, fire season gets longer, the droughts become more intense, and that is a byproduct of climate.
- [08:29]
Sanjay
By the way, you and I both have Michigan connections. I was talking to my friends in Michigan. Super hot temperatures, super bad air because of all the. And then they also had the cyclospora outbreak that they were dealing with up there. So it was not a good summer
- [08:44]
Derek Van Dam
in Michigan, exception of both of our.
- [08:46]
Sanjay
But I am, you know, people always ask me, what's the best way to protect yourself from that air? And I mean, you're in the throes of this. Are there some tricks that you've learned beyond the obvious? I mean, I've seen you out covering these with mask on and things like that, obviously. But what else should people be thinking about? If they're coming under these air quality
- [09:05]
Derek Van Dam
alerts, People need to understand what's in those. The smoke, right? The fine particulate matter that even though a wildfire may not be in their vicinity, it may be a thousand miles away. But as that smoke gets distributed across the atmosphere, the sun is doing its work on it and what's left over is dangerous chemicals that you're inhaling, right? So when we are in the field, we are definitely using N95 masks. I mean, you learned from COVID days how effective they can be. But. But that's not always an option. Let's say trying to get yourself into a ventilated area or stay in an area where there's air filtration, that type of thing indoors is always important. I mean, people need to understand what they're breathing. When we're talking about wildfire smoke, when you see it on your doorstep. With these past few weeks of the intense wildfire smoke across the eastern U.S. the western U.S. across Europe. This is the fine particulate matter. This is 2.5 microns, right? So we're talking minuscule. It's about 30 times smaller than the average width of a human hair. So you can inhale it so deep into your lungs that it gets into your bloodstream and it can alter your health. And, you know, I forgot to bring my inhaler, but I'm an asthmatic myself.
- [10:19]
Dr. Gupta
Really?
- [10:19]
Derek Van Dam
Yeah. So everybody, you're out covering wildfires as an asthmatic wildfires, and you've. You got to have your asthma pump next to you at all times because you need to, you know, loosen up the bronchial tubes, I guess, if that's the appropriate word for it. But yeah.
- [10:32]
Sanjay
Did you cover many wildfires early in your career?
- [10:35]
Derek Van Dam
I didn't. It's been a more recent phenomenon. A more recent phenomenon.
- [10:39]
Sanjay
I'm just thinking like a guy who has asthma. Maybe they would have said, hey, look, maybe this may not be the best field for me. By the way, I should just point out with the N95 mask, because you make this excellent point about the size of these particles. They're tiny. And people would often say, well, how can any mask block that? Well, these masks, they actually have these interlacing fibers in them that are also electrostatically charged. So these N95 masks capture particles that. The same way that a towel, for example, in your dryer would catch your socks, it's electrostatically attracted to it. So, you know, they're effective, as you said, but maybe even more so than people realize in terms of how they actually work.
- [11:18]
Derek Van Dam
So. So it leaves behind the bad chemicals or the particulates in the mask.
- [11:24]
Sanjay
In the mask. In the mask, yeah. And that's why you really need to be changing them out after a period of time.
- [11:30]
Derek Van Dam
Oh, great advice.
- [11:31]
Sanjay
So they have. They have some life cycle. Like, I don't know. If you cover a lot of wildfires, you probably should get new N95 masks.
- [11:37]
Announcer 2
Team.
- [11:37]
Derek Van Dam
Noted.
- [11:37]
Sanjay
Okay, maybe that's the best thing that came out of this podcast.
- [11:41]
Dr. Gupta
Okay, we're going to take a quick break here, but when we come back, Derek and I are going to talk about the dangers of extreme heat and what you can do about it
- [11:53]
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- [12:09]
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- [12:25]
Sanjay
Hurricanes, tornadoes, wildfires, you cover them all. There's also been these significant storms and Texas, some of them, some parts of Texas still recovering from the flash flooding that was super deadly. I mean, you know, some of Those stories, Derek, I saw you out there covering that. It's just, it's hard. A thousand year rainfall event essentially in two years. What happened?
- [12:51]
Derek Van Dam
Again, it comes back to the fact that we are creating a warmer planet by burning fossil fuels. It's, it's clear as day. There are rapid attribution ways to prove this in individual events. But when you talk about these flash flood events, it goes back to the fact that our atmosphere can hold more water vapor. It just has the ability to do it. And that again goes back to simple thermodynamics and physics that anyone can really understand. Right. We're thickening the protective blanket around our atmosphere by releasing these greenhouse kind of heat trapping gases. When we do that, our storms will have the ability to produce more frequent and more intense rainfall events like we've seen unfold in Texas. Unfortunately, it happens in some of these areas where the impacts can be multiplied because there's topography at play or there's communities and unfortunately campgrounds and people that live at the banks of these rivers. And that's where the intersection of, you know, our growth into urban corridors and that, you know, the wildlands is a problem. Right.
- [14:04]
Sanjay
Whenever I take a walk with my kids and we're walking outside and it's a beautiful day, there's a bunch of green around me and I can take deep breaths in the air. Sometimes I think to myself, will my grandkids be able to do the same thing? Or will it be a situation where maybe on certain days they can, but many days they cannot because the air is just not good enough or the temperature is too hot or whatever? You and I are both optimists, but
- [14:31]
Dr. Gupta
is that where we're sort of headed,
- [14:33]
Sanjay
that a simple, enjoyable activity like taking a walk outside in your neighborhood with your family is gonna be a harder and harder thing to do?
- [14:40]
Derek Van Dam
Unfortunately, I do believe that that is the trajectory that we are on and we want to fight for that to not happen as much as possible. Right? Because we care about our children and our children's children as much as possible. We are going to make that not a thing. But if the current state of our environment right now shows us any glimpse into what our near term, even the mid to long term future looks like. We already have days where it's too dangerous to be outdoors. We already have days where an asthmatic that maybe has worse upper respiratory problems than I do would not be able to stand outside in the wildfire smoke that was, you know, blanketing the east coast earlier this month. I mean, that's our New norm. And we, we need to try and adapt as best as possible.
- [15:30]
Sanjay
I think you're reporting last summer was, I think that you said last summer was the first or second hottest summer on record. Is that accurate? Have we had a few of the hottest summers on record over the last few years?
- [15:42]
Derek Van Dam
Yeah, it's just happening year after year after year. We'll set new records whether or not it's the summer or the entire year itself. And that's nuanced too, when you start talking about planetary averages or North America or Europe or that type of thing, but that it's definitely a trend, a worrying trend.
- [16:02]
Sanjay
Problem with having warmer days is that, as you said, the vegetation starts to become potentially more combustible. Definitely more wildfires. You carry more water vapor in the atmosphere, several percent more. And that can lead to more intense rainfall, more rainfall overall, but more intense rainfall. It can lead to more weather events, including hurricanes, but more intense or more powerful hurricanes when they do occur. So you have sort of two things that you're describing happening simultaneously. Both the frequency and the intensity of these things are both sort of going up around the same time.
- [16:38]
Derek Van Dam
That's it. So you think of a heat wave. So what we used to consider as an extreme temperature, where we would go, okay, that's dangerous to be outside. Well, that scale, it's a sliding scale now. Right. So what used to be extreme is more middle of the road, you know, in terms of danger. But you start talking about the, you know, as we go into a warming climate, it'll become more frequent to achieve those types of temperatures. It will happen more often, but then the extremes will become more extreme. So what we deem as lethal or adverse to our health, that scale will slide because we've already gotten to a point where it's more frequent, that, you know, we've reached those dangerous heights already. I mean, it's just, it's tough to see.
- [17:26]
Sanjay
You're gonna be a busy guy.
- [17:28]
Derek Van Dam
Yeah, I would say it's good for business, bad for the.
- [17:35]
Sanjay
You are a weather guy with 20 years experience. You have a family, you have kids. Do you live your life or your family? Do they live their lives any differently now given everything that's been happening with climate over the last 20 years?
- [17:46]
Derek Van Dam
Definitely. We do everything in our power to think planet first. At our home we come from. My wife is from South Africa, so we've got a direct connection to Cape Town in particular. And if you recall, about a decade ago, they were almost the first major metropolitan to run out of water. Yes, they were running into day zero. Recall that?
- [18:09]
Sanjay
Yes.
- [18:10]
Derek Van Dam
All right, so that was a real, you know, flashpoint for my family and I to go, oh, wow, we need to reconsider our usage on everything but water, especially. Right. A resource that, you know, it's. It's never. It's not something that just rejuvenates, right? It's. It's. We need to. We need to really utilize it and utilize it wisely. So we start limiting our shower use. We limit our dishwasher use. Anything that we can do to limit the excess waste recycling at all moments in time. I mean, these are the little things that families can do. But it's a fun activity for our family because we will look at it and go, all right, can that piece of plastic be recycled? Well, let's go check into it. What's the number on the recycle? And then my family will get involved in that process. And then it gets imprinted on my children's brains. And now I find them, we'll take a walk on a beautiful day, and they will pick up the trash and sort it and put it in a trash can or a recycle bin because they know better.
- [19:10]
Sanjay
We're in that time, I feel like right now, Derek, where obviously people want to continue to enjoy things but also be responsible, staying hydrated. Something. We say that all the time. But I always remind my kids, hey, look, if you're thirsty, you've probably already waited too long. And also, you shouldn't just be chugging fluid, you should be drinking fluid throughout. So those breaks, which, by the way, we even saw at the World cup this year, those mandatory hydration breaks, it's
- [19:36]
Derek Van Dam
amazing how quickly that, you know, heat stroke and heat exhaustion can creep up on the human body. I mean, it's. When you're exposed to those temperatures, you gotta start being able to recognize the signs. And it's becoming all too common and too familiar. I mean, you talk about the heat waves in Europe and the fatalities that have occurred this summer already, right? I mean, this. Vulnerable populations that get, you know, struck with this, they don't have the ability to cool themselves. And then all of a sudden, you know, their body is still at an elevated temperature. So recognizing the difference between a heat exhaustion and heat stroke, you know, versus, like, it's. What did I learn when I was reporting on this a couple weeks ago? It's recognizing when it's, you know, an emergency and when is it, like a hospital visit, you know what I mean?
- [20:23]
Sanjay
Sure. And at this point, you make. Where certain places, they just never Cool down. People never get a reprieve. I think is really important. People always pay attention to the highest high. But how low does it get? Because if it doesn't get very low, your body is never really getting a chance to recover. One thing about being a reporter covering the weather is that you and your team are often out in the middle of these conditions and obviously hurricanes and wildfires and, and storms, but also heat. You've been out there covering these heat waves. And how have you helped take care of your team? I mean, because these guys you're reporting, obviously you got your camera guys, they're carrying heavy equipment to do these live shots. Intense physical activity in the middle of a heat wave, it's gonna be very challenging.
- [21:09]
Derek Van Dam
We were just in Washington, D.C. covering America 250 celebrations on the National Mall, but it just coincided with their worst heat wave. They had their. Our warmest Fourth of July on record in D.C. and we were there right smack dab in the middle of it. No shade on the National Mall. Right. People were passing out in front of us. I mean, we watched heat exhaustion take, you know, people succumb to heat exhaustion right in front of us, people getting escorted by ambulance. It was bad. So we recognized the emergency that was on hand, but we also had the ability to prepare for it because we, we've been in these positions before. So little tricks besides the obvious of staying hydrated is a cool towel. We'll put it in an ice pack and then we'll drape that over our foreheads or our necks to keep our internal body temperature down. Or those little neck fans, those types of things. Even ice packs for injuries are a really helpful thing you can put on your body to just keep internal organs cooled down. We'll take all the tricks that we can get, find shade whenever possible. It sounds like common sense, but when you have heat exhaustion or heat stroke, you can't make common sense decisions. Right. So you need to prepare ahead of time for it.
- [22:23]
Sanjay
Yeah. And those ice packs, I mean, putting those ice packs on parts of the body where you have significant blood flow. So under your arms, around your neck, as you, as you pointed out, even in your groin, you know, a lot of blood flow there. If you're able to cool some of that blood, it helps. Like if you look at EMS response for people who have heat strokes, one of the first things they do, they try and put an IV in and give cold fluids, but they'll also put ice packs all over those specific areas where blood flow is particularly intense.
- [22:50]
Derek Van Dam
What about the forehead?
- [22:51]
Sanjay
Forehead Helps as well. But the around the neck is probably going to be even more beneficial.
- [22:56]
Derek Van Dam
Okay.
- [22:56]
Sanjay
Yeah.
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Derek Van Dam
Interesting.
- [22:57]
Sanjay
Carotid arteries.
- [22:58]
Derek Van Dam
I just feel like the brain is such an important organ.
- [23:02]
Sanjay
Brain is definitely important. And, you know, I mean, obviously cooling the blood, floods, going to the brain helps a lot. Yeah. So obviously hydrated. Stay in the shade as much as possible. Those ice packs. Did you do anything else for your
- [23:16]
Derek Van Dam
team or a cold beer after the end of the day?
- [23:20]
Sanjay
That never hurts. That never hurts.
- [23:22]
Derek Van Dam
Right.
- [23:24]
Sanjay
Well, Derek, what a pleasure.
- [23:25]
Derek Van Dam
Yeah. Thank you, Sanjay.
- [23:26]
Sanjay
I have a feeling we're gonna be talking about this topic for years to come.
- [23:29]
Derek Van Dam
Yeah. The intersection of health and climate. Right. And there it is.
- [23:32]
Sanjay
And what I think what you and I both agree on is get out there, enjoy nature, be outside as much as possible. I mean, it's tough sometimes for sure, but when you do, make sure you're doing things to protect yourself as well.
- [23:43]
Derek Van Dam
Yeah. And again, fight for your right to clean water and clean air. Because we only have one planets too. There's no Planet B.
- [23:51]
Sanjay
That's right. Although they're talking about Mars.
- [23:53]
Derek Van Dam
I mean.
- [23:53]
Dr. Gupta
Okay.
- [23:54]
Derek Van Dam
All right, we'll go there next. It looks a little desolate for me.
- [23:58]
Sanjay
Thanks, Derek. All right, thanks, N.J. all right, that's
- [24:02]
Dr. Gupta
our show for today. If you are listening right now and you are thinking, hey, I got a question. Well, send it in.
- [24:09]
Sanjay
I love hearing from you. We might just answer your question.
- [24:13]
Dr. Gupta
You can reach out to us by recording a voice memo and emailing it to to pagingdrgupta.com or give us a call 470-396-0832 and leave a message. Thanks so much for listening.
- [24:33]
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