EP 8 - The Quarterback and The Con Artist

Summary

Episode Overview

Episode Title: The Quarterback and The Con Artist – Episode 8
Host: Jonathan Walton
Date: October 22, 2025
Theme:
This episode continues the harrowing real-life saga of former NFL quarterback Eric Kramer, whose catastrophic brain injury left him vulnerable to exploitation by con artist Courtney Baird. Walton and his guests unravel a broken legal system that enabled Courtney's manipulation and theft, despite overwhelming evidence and family attempts at intervention. The episode captures an emotional, inside look at the intersection of cognitive impairment, financial abuse, and systemic legal failures.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Background and Set-Up: Eric’s Recovery and Initial Victimization

• Eric’s Condition and Vulnerability
  • After a gunshot wound to the head, Eric Kramer faced severe cognitive and physical disabilities. His aunt, Patrice Cameron, recalls his initial state, sharing the family's method of assessing his cognitive state (05:16–06:45).
  • Patrice Cameron: “He had to wear a helmet all the time… couldn’t walk yet… but he was able to write down the right answers. And we were very encouraged that he wasn’t going to be a vegetable, maybe.”
• Courtney Re-enters Eric’s Life
  • Six months post-injury, Courtney Baird returns, initially giving friends and family hope as she cares for him (06:45).
• Anna Durgan Uncovers Financial Irregularities
  • Eric’s longtime friend Anna Durgan discovers Courtney’s financial abuse by monitoring credit card transactions (07:16).

2. Courtney’s Manipulation and Legal Maneuvers

• Secret Marriage and Conservatorship Efforts
  • To solidify her control, Courtney secretly marries Eric, shocking his family (07:56).
  • Patrice: “She knew her days were numbered. So what would be her next option? To get married.”
• Attempts to Access Eric's Assets
  • Despite her persistence, Eric’s assets are in a trust designed to protect him and his family (09:16–09:59).
  • The family attempts to safeguard Eric by establishing a conservatorship, but Courtney remains influential as Eric’s wife (11:11).

3. Systemic Legal Failures and the Role of Conservatorship Attorneys

• Attorney Sides with Courtney
  • The attorney appointed to protect Eric sides with Courtney, often ignoring medical and legal evidence of Eric's incapacity (12:47–14:20). Quotes highlight the frustration:
    • Patrice: “He seemed to understand what was going on... So, in the lawyer’s perspective, why was he being conserved?” (12:47)
    • Anna: “He had that information and he ignored it. He said that Eric was competent… after receiving medical records five days earlier saying Eric is incapacitated.” (14:20)
• Turning the Tables on Eric’s Family
  • The conservatorship attorney accuses Anna and Eric’s relatives of elder abuse for monitoring Eric’s accounts, threatening legal action (15:33–16:43).
  • Jonathan: “It just sounds like he was programmed by Courtney.”
    Anna: “He was 1000% programmed against you.” (16:56–17:01)
• Making the Victimizers Look Like Victims
  • Eric, under influence, tries to sue Anna, making her look like the criminal (17:28–17:44).
  • Anna: “The court-appointed attorney was asking the court for 10 to $15,000 a month to pay for groceries and clothing. Now who the hell pays 10 to $15,000 a month on food and clothing?” (17:49)

4. Financial Protections and the Role of the Court

• Courtney’s Admissions Overlooked
  • Even when Courtney admits theft, the legal system doesn’t hold her accountable because she’s now Eric’s wife (18:27–18:49).
  • Anna: “She admits... she was stealing money from Eric’s account... but that she won’t do it again.”
• Anna’s Monitoring is Framed as Abuse
  • The system reprimands Anna for monitoring to protect Eric (19:23–19:45).
  • Detective Linkscheid, persuaded by attorney emails, tells Anna to stop monitoring the accounts (19:58–20:24).
  • Anna: “This is why I don’t like attorneys. They get in the way of doing the right thing to protect people.” (20:24)

5. Bringing in Expert Attorney Lisa McCarley

• Parallels to the Free Britney Movement
  • Lisa McCarley, a probate/conservatorship attorney known for her work in Britney Spears’ case, discusses systemic failures in conservatorship cases and issues of bias (21:16–21:36).
• Gender Bias and the "Chivalry Theory"
  • Walton proposes the legal system’s possible bias in favor of women (“chivalry theory”) (25:29–26:30).
  • McCarley rebuts that probate often dismisses women's voices—Eric’s female relatives were ignored while the court favored the (male) court-appointed attorney (26:38–28:01).
    • McCarley: “Women in probate court... were completely ignored. And that is another pattern that I observe... the court will generally do what the court-appointed attorney tells them to do.” (27:31–28:01)
• Undue Influence and Judicial Dysfunction
  • The system treats Eric’s stated wishes (parroting Courtney’s) as authentic, disregarding clear evidence of manipulation (30:31–31:10).
  • McCarley: “We have a vulnerable person who is parroting the language... of his or her abuser. And then the court-appointed attorney... relays that to the judge.”

6. Turning Point: Eric’s Recovery and Courtney’s Desperation

• Courtney Runs Out of Money
  • Courtney depletes all accessible funds and seeks evaluation to access Eric’s trust (32:28–33:34).
• Neuropsychological Evaluation Blocks Her
  • Dr. Tomaszewski finds Eric still incapacitated, preventing Courtney from accessing the trust (33:34–34:07).
  • Anna: “I love Dr. Tomaszewski. Such a brilliant guy.”
• Eric’s Mental Recovery & Realization
  • Three years after injury, Eric’s brain starts to heal; he realizes the truth about Courtney and demands a divorce (34:12–35:16).
  • In retaliation, Courtney calls 911, falsely accusing Eric of assault, resulting in national headlines about Eric’s arrest (35:16–35:51).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “She didn’t act like, I just got married and everything’s happy. Right. She didn’t make any announcements to us... It was just a ploy to get into Eric’s stuff.”
  – Patrice Cameron (07:56)
• “He had more issue with me monitoring his accounts than Courtney stealing for eight months on his account.”
  – Anna Durgan (16:43)
• “He was 1000% programmed against you.”
  – Anna Durgan (16:58)
• "Order in the court."
  – Lisa McCarley (15:33, in mock of court proceedings)
• “Attorneys are not motivated to speak out about this broken system because the judges that we have to criticize are the judges that make decisions about compensation.”
  – Lisa McCarley (25:29)
• “I mean, she was telling him what to wish.”
  – Jonathan Walton (30:31)
• “A con artist game of telephone.”
  – Jonathan Walton (31:10)
• "God, thank God that doctor, like, did his job right."
  – Jonathan Walton (34:02)
• "Former NFL quarterback Eric Kramer is in jail tonight... arrested at his Los Angeles area home on domestic violence charges."
  – Nationwide news report (35:35)

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Key Timestamps for Reference

| Timestamp | Segment / Moment | |------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 05:16–06:45| Patrice details Eric's post-injury state and early recovery | | 07:16 | Anna catches on to financial abuse | | 07:56 | Secret marriage and Patrice's suspicions | | 09:16–09:59| Explaining Eric's trust and Courtney’s thwarted attempts | | 12:47–14:20| Attorney begins siding with Courtney, family expresses outrage | | 15:33–16:43| Conservatorship attorney threatens Anna and family, calls them abusers | | 17:28–17:44| Eric, under influence, attempts to sue Anna | | 18:27–18:49| Courtney admits theft but faces no penalty | | 19:23–20:24| Attorney and detective admonish Anna for protective monitoring | | 21:16 | Introduction of Lisa McCarley, ties to Free Britney | | 25:29–28:01| Chivalry theory vs. probate bias, women’s voices dismissed | | 30:31–31:10| Judges mistakenly adopt abuser’s language as the victim’s own | | 32:28–34:07| Courtney’s financial desperation, neuropsych evaluation prevents theft | | 34:12–35:16| Eric recovers, wants divorce; Courtney retaliates with 911 call | | 35:35 | Eric’s arrest makes national headlines |

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Tone and Style

The episode is gripping, emotional, and, at times, exasperating as it details the Kafkaesque journey through legal bureaucracy and manipulation. The guests and host speak candidly—sometimes incredulously—about systemic failures. Their voices are empathetic yet frustrated, balancing compassion for Eric with outrage at Courtney and the legal machinery that enabled her.

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Summary

Episode 8 of "The Quarterback and The Con Artist" shines a powerful spotlight on what happens when legal protections fail the very people they’re meant to defend. Through intimate interviews with Eric Kramer’s aunt, best friend, and expert attorney Lisa McCarley, the story exposes the perverse ways legal structures can be weaponized by manipulators—often turning protectors into targets and disregarding even the most blatant evidence of abuse.

If you’re hungry for true stories of human resilience—both the heroic and the heartbreaking—this episode delivers, urging listeners to recognize and challenge the deep flaws that affect the most vulnerable among us.

Transcript

[Jonathan Walton]

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[Jeff Bridges]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

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[Dana]

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[Dana]

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[Jeff Bridges]

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[Jonathan Walton]

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[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for lunch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

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[Jonathan Walton]

This series deals with troubling topics including suicide, drug overdosing, and dependent adult abuse. If you or someone you know is struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, call or text 988 right now and speak with a counselor for free. Previously on the Quarterback and the Con Artist. Can you stop investigating? Coordinating Eric Kramer calls the sheriff's office in November of 2016 and tells detective Lynxcheidt to drop the criminal case against Courtney Baird. I'm sure she cried on his shoulder and did her best song and dance and convinced him. Here again manipulating him to make that phone call, which is consistent with my read on the whole case. He's cognitively impaired, so it's not unusual that something like that would happen. There was strong evidence to suggest that he in fact had been victimized, that money had been stolen, and that Courtney was responsible for doing it. But then suddenly, In December of 2016, Courtney whisks Eric away to Santa Barbara and secretly marries him behind the backs of his friends and family. Pretty much all they said was like, yep, that's what people do when they elope. That's pretty much what the explanation we got back from your your dad said that or Courtney said that or. Yeah, my dad said it and then Courtney said it, and my dad was just repeating what Courtney said, and my dad obviously was not with it. So to safeguard Eric's life, his friends and family get him into a conservatorship. But then, in a crazy, unforeseen twist, the conservatorship attorney appointed to protect Eric actually appears to Eric's family and friends to take Courtney's side squarely, putting her in the driver's seat of Eric's life. From a legal standpoint, at a time when Eric basically just does exactly what he's told by anyone, especially his new.

[Anna Durgan]

Wife, Eric actually went to an attorney to sue me.

[Jonathan Walton]

To sue you?

[Anna Durgan]

To sue me for what? Accessing his account.

[Jonathan Walton]

Oh, so making you look like the criminal. I'm Jonathan Walton, and this is the quarterback and the con artist. Episode eight. She was trying her darndest.

[Patrice Cameron]

So I went. I visited the hospital pretty regularly, try to go every day.

[Jonathan Walton]

Eric's aunt, Patrice Cameron, his mother's sister, has been there from the very beginning of Eric's years long, arduous recovery. Those first few weeks after the gunshot wound were really rough, and it looked like Eric would never be the same again, mentally and physically.

[Patrice Cameron]

So the skull was concaved. He had to wear a helmet all the time he looked scary, but he didn't even realize it. He didn't know how he looked. You know, he couldn't talk because he had had so much damage in his mouth. But we were trying to ascertain his brain capacity. He couldn't walk yet or any of that. But he was. He was bedridden. But we gave him a book, a spiral notebook. And we would ask him questions, and we'd say, what's your son's name? And he'd write it down and different questions. How old are you? When were you born? Da da, da, da, da. So all of the stuff, he was able to write down the right answers. And we were like, oh, my gosh, that's great. So we were very encour that he wasn't going to be a vegetable, maybe.

[Jonathan Walton]

And as Eric starts to recover, Patrice is thrilled by his steady physical progress. And then when Courtney suddenly reappears in Eric's life six months after that gunshot wound to the head, Patrice, along with everyone else, thinks this could actually be a good thing. Eric now has someone living with him and caring for him around the clock. But then Anna Durgan starts figuring out what's really going on.

[Patrice Cameron]

She was keeping track of the credit card transactions.

[Jonathan Walton]

And Anna sounds the alarm and gets Eric's Aunt Patrice and everyone else in Eric's life to launch a counteroffensive in an attempt to expel Courtney Baird from Eric's home and from Eric's finances and from Eric's life by getting him into a conservatorship. But Courtney always seems to stay one step ahead of this Herculean effort to oust her. And what was your reaction? What was your feeling when you heard Courtney married Eric?

[Patrice Cameron]

I wasn't surprised because we were getting close, and so she knew her days were numbered. So what would be her next option? To get married. Right. And she had somebody that would follow her and very easily influenced. My fear was that she was going to. She had a daughter. My fear was that she was going to get Eric to agree to adopt this daughter, and that would complicate things even more. So I was always thinking, what if she does this or what if she does that? So the marriage was bad enough, so we were kind of on pins and needles with this other thing, which she didn't do. But she didn't act like, I just got married and everything's happy. Right. She didn't make any announcements to us. Nobody knew about it, and she didn't have anything. She had no job, no insurance. It was just a Ploy to get into Eric's stuff. And then she ends up, I think they went to the estate planner guy, and she tried to get in. In on the wheel. She's trying her darndest to. To get to the big stuff. So.

[Jonathan Walton]

And make no mistake, there's a lot of big stuff to get to. Millions and millions of dollars in cash and assets. But it was protected. Courtney couldn't touch it. And since she had already depleted Eric's checking account.

[Anna Durgan]

I'm sorry, ma', am, that account is overdrawn.

[Jonathan Walton]

The only way Courtney could buy things for herself and her daughter was with Eric's credit cards. Because of the meticulous and very detailed financial arrangements Eric puts into place when he plans his suicide, he established an ironclad trust with all his assets to take care of his family in the event of his death.

[Anna Durgan]

While he was in the hospital and getting treatment, I was taking care of the mail, sending it off to the trust and making sure they paid the bills.

[Jonathan Walton]

Ana Jurgen.

[Anna Durgan]

But prior to them paying the bills, I would verify with his health insurance to make sure that they processed the medical bills. And then the copay I would have the trust pay.

[Jonathan Walton]

And this is the trust Eric set up before he shot himself when he.

[Anna Durgan]

Expected to be dead.

[Jonathan Walton]

So even though he didn't die, the trust still kind of kicks in and.

[Anna Durgan]

Takes care of because he was in custody, incapacitated. A doctor had written that. Dr. Kerner had written that he was incapacitated. So therefore, that was the only way that the trust could take control over his finances.

[Jonathan Walton]

So when the conservatorship for Eric Kramer goes into effect In January of 2017, his aunt Patrice is in charge. And that saves Eric a fortune by not having to hire a professional fiduciary, which can cost tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars over time.

[Patrice Cameron]

I think initially it was done in the right, right way, and it did limit the theft to some degree.

[Jonathan Walton]

But Courtney is legally and freshly Eric's wife for about a month at this point. So she still has a powerful influence over him. And he is still very much mentally incapacitated. And Eric's aunt Patrice quickly finds herself between a rock and a hard place.

[Patrice Cameron]

Well, it became emotional because I could see the spending. I was trying to figure out a way to limit the spending without upsetting Eric too much. I didn't want to put a limit so low that if he pulled out his credit card and it was denied, and then he would be very upset, and while. And he come after me about it. So, anyway, we ended up getting a professional conservator. But then when I stepped away, Eric was agitating. And I don't know if it was him or it was Courtney, but we kept hearing from his attorney, oh, he wants a professional fiduciary, not his aunt. Okay, fine. But it cost him a lot of money to do that because those fiduciaries don't come cheap. And then when they need some legal advice, they get their attorney involved. So you got paid for that too. So he went from paying nobody to this, this big payment now.

[Jonathan Walton]

And then things get a thousand times worse because Eric's court appointed attorney steps up to the plate and as Eric.

[Patrice Cameron]

Recalls, tells him, oh, you don't need to be conserved. And he was being influenced by Courtney. And unfortunately, Eric by this time he looked pretty good and he spoke well and his head was fixed so he didn't have that dip in his skull. Right. And he seemed to understand what was going on. So in the lawyer's perspective, why was he being conserved? So he fought against the conservancy and said he didn't need it. He didn't talk to a doctor. He just was influenced by this Courtney because she was very good at manipulating. She's very nice looking and she says all the right things. So that was the frustrating part of this whole thing.

[Anna Durgan]

Now you as the attorney, Anna Durkin, instead of advocating and protecting Eric, who's the victim, who's incapacitated, who you have medical records that states he can't understand what theft is happening to him. Courtney Baird is taking advantage of him. You're gonna go advocate for Courtney Baird.

[Jonathan Walton]

But didn't he have the sheriff's investigation and the doctor's note? Like, didn't he know she confessed to stealing to Lynxite? Didn't he know that a doctor had said he is not of capacity to handle his own affairs?

[Anna Durgan]

He had that information and he ignored it. He said that Eric was competent. He.

[Jonathan Walton]

But that's not his job.

[Anna Durgan]

He said Eric was competent after receiving medical records five days earlier saying Eric is incapacitated.

[Jonathan Walton]

And this new legal narrative, this idea that Eric is just fine and a conservatorship is unnecessary plays out in a series of meetings and court hearings over the course of 2017 and 2018. And Anna Durgan is pissed and present for a couple of the big ones.

[Anna Durgan]

And I have the transcript here, the court appointed attorney were saying that Eric was not under any undue influence, that in order to be unduly influenced, you have to be aware that you're being influenced. I'm not kidding you.

[Jonathan Walton]

Wow, that's like a literal catch 22, right? But then, in another stunning development, Eric's conservatorship attorney not only appears to Eric's family to side with con artist Courtney Baird. Order in the court.

[Lisa McCarley]

Order.

[Jonathan Walton]

But also appears to be going after them too. And Ana casting them as the scammers. Revealing in an email that he may pursue legal action against them. Ana picks up a printout of that email that the conservatorship attorney sends to the lawyer representing Eric's family on January 11, 2017. Keep in mind he refers to Eric as his client. Ana begins reading.

[Anna Durgan]

My client reserves the right to pursue legal remedies against anyone involved in identity theft, unauthorized access to his accounts, and now that he is under a personal conservatorship, anyone involved in putting him in this situation. All of which would constitute elder abuse. And note that I'm not referring to the unauthorized withdrawals made by my client's wife, which are already under review by the district attorney. I'm referring to actions by others such as your clients and their cohorts.

[Jonathan Walton]

And you're the cohort.

[Anna Durgan]

I'm because I'm the one. He had more issue with me monitoring his accounts then Courtney stealing for eight months on his account.

[Jonathan Walton]

It just sounds like he was programmed by Courtney.

[Anna Durgan]

He was 1000% programmed against you.

[Jonathan Walton]

And against his aunt and against his sister.

[Anna Durgan]

Against his sister? When had he made one phone call to linksheit, he would have gotten the real story, not the made up story by the con artist.

[Jonathan Walton]

So at this point it appears as if not only is Courtney getting away, she's not going to be charged. Her marrying Eric was a genius move.

[Anna Durgan]

Absolutely.

[Jonathan Walton]

But now she's circling the wagons to come after you, his aunt and his sister.

[Anna Durgan]

Eric actually went to an attorney to sue me after that hearing. At the advice of my understanding, the court appointed attorney and Courtney Barrett to sue you. To sue me for what? Accessing his account.

[Jonathan Walton]

Oh, so making you look like the criminal. God, she's bold.

[Anna Durgan]

The court appointed attorney was asking the court for 10 to $15,000 a month to pay for groceries and clothing. Now who the hell pays 10 to $15,000 a month on food and clothing?

[Jonathan Walton]

But here's what makes no sense to me. It's not like this conservatorship attorney doesn't know about Courtney's history of stealing from Eric and doesn't know about the criminal investigation that theft spawned.

[Anna Durgan]

Courtney wrote a three or four page history of her and Eric's relationship. And in that document she admits to the court appointed attorney that she was stealing money from Eric's account without his permission, without his knowledge, but that they discussed it and that he was okay with it but that she won't do it again.

[Jonathan Walton]

And now because she's Eric's wife, in the eyes of that court appointed attorney, all the money she's taking isn't considered stealing. And all the people in Eric's life, like his childhood friend Anna Jurgen, are the ones screwing Eric over. Anna reads now from a transcript of one of these bizarro court appearances. It appears this conservatorship attorney is trying to deflect from Courtney's actions of stealing from Eric, making Ana look like the scammer here, not Courtney.

[Anna Durgan]

So apparently this Anna Durgan or Durgan, I don't know how she does it, but she's able to access all of what's going on with my client, which is troubling. And I'm not sure how she knows it's fair that if there's been abuse. That's correct. But this constant monitoring is troubling.

[Jonathan Walton]

I mean that sounds like he is defending Courtney.

[Anna Durgan]

He did defend Courtney. He was asking for the 10,000 to $15,000 a month. That's what she was stealing every month. How did Eric didn't know what he was spending.

[Jonathan Walton]

But the ultimate slap in the face for justice comes when an email from Eric's conservatorship attorney ends up persuading Detective Linkscheid to admonish Anna Durgan. He tells her to stop logging into Eric's bank accounts. Which is how she figured out that Courtney was stealing from Eric in the first place and how she monitored that theft over months.

[Anna Durgan]

This is why I don't like attorneys. They get in the way of doing the right thing to protect people.

[Jonathan Walton]

I'm in my car now, contemplating this crazy legal system of ours that allows a con woman complete control of a mentally incapacitated man's life. I'm heading north on the 110 out of downtown Los Angeles to the suburb of La Canada Flintridge, a sleepy part of Los Angeles county chock full of tree lined streets and rolling hills. When I arrive, I unpack all my recording equipment and set up at the dining room table of the woman Ana Durgan turns to for help.

[Lisa McCarley]

My name is Lisa McCarley and I'm a probate and conservatorship attorney in Los Angeles County. I work throughout Southern California. You'll recognize my name and my face if you are following the Free Britney movement. I was the attorney that helped unravel the scandalous conservatorship of Britney Spears.

[Jonathan Walton]

Gosh. And that just went in and out for forever. And it was a cause du jour sort of that everyone got behind. It appeared as if Britney was being held against her will and had no control over her life or finances. Pop icon Britney Spears is famously put into a conservatorship against her will for years until a free Britney movement erupts back in 2020. Hey hey ho ho. The conservatorship has got to be hey hey ho ho. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. You chose to hit play on this podcast today. Smart Choice make another smart choice with Auto Quote Explorer to compare rates from multiple car insurance companies all at once. Try [e-mail] Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates not available in all states or situations. Prices vary based on how you buy.

[Jeff Bridges]

Morning Zoe. Got donuts.

[Dana]

Jeff Bridges why are you still living above our garage?

[Jeff Bridges]

Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you teach me.

[Dana]

So Dana oh no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at t mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.

[Jeff Bridges]

Wow, impressive. Let me try. T Mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network.

[Dana]

Nice Jeffrey.

[Jonathan Walton]

You heard them.

[Jeff Bridges]

T Mobile is the best place to.

[Jonathan Walton]

Get the new iPhone 17 Pro on us with eligible traded in any condition.

[Jeff Bridges]

So what are we having for launch?

[Dana]

Dude, my work here is done.

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[Lisa McCarley]

Across.

[Jonathan Walton]

The country, thousands of protesters take to the streets demanding the county of Los Angeles free Britney Spears from her conservatorship. And lawyers from all walks of life step in and step up and make it happen. Lawyers like Lisa McCarley. So you helped free Britney?

[Lisa McCarley]

I certainly did. The scandal of what happened to Britney Spears is actually a book that I'm working on right now titled A Lawyer.

[Jonathan Walton]

For Britney slated for release this year.

[Lisa McCarley]

But Brittany did not belong in the conservatorship. Not for a day. And what the LA county probate court did to her really should be reviewed by agencies. And I'm still going to pursue that. Even though technically Britney's conservatorship is over.

[Jonathan Walton]

When Anna Durgin seeks out Lisa McCarley's help. Years have gone by and con artist Courtney Baird has stolen a fortune from Eric and she's still getting away with it.

[Lisa McCarley]

Anna Durgan explained that the family had discovered Eric had been exploited by a woman, girlfriend turned wife. And she's asking me, we can't believe that it got worse. When we went to probate court, we'd been robbed, he'd been stolen from. We had the documentation, we had a detective, we had the medical records. But the court appointed attorney sided with the bad lady and she couldn't believe it. And I had to sit there and say, yeah, it's pretty much what they do all the time. Attorneys are not motivated to speak out about this broken system because the judges that we have to criticize are the judges that make decisions about compensation.

[Jonathan Walton]

Have you ever heard of the phrase chivalry theory?

[Lisa McCarley]

Not chivalry, but go ahead.

[Jonathan Walton]

It was coined back in the 1950s by the sociologist who said law enforcement, the law and the actors in the law, judges, police officers, lawyers are predisposed to act in a chivalrous manner toward women because they're viewed as, you know, classically the weaker sex or they need protecting or they should be believed or the damsel in distress. So nine out of 10 times, if it's between a woman and a man situation, they're going to side with the woman, they're going to bend over backwards to accommodate the woman. Women get lighter sentences for the same crime. Women are treated sort of with kid gloves by the legal system. In a lot of respects, the theory goes, chivalry theory. And in this case it kind of reeks of it because here you have evidence of what's happening in real life. And yet she's able to convince this attorney, no, no, no, this is our money. And I'm doing. I'm his wife and I love him. And he bought it, right?

[Lisa McCarley]

He bought it.

[Jonathan Walton]

But Lisa McCarley frankly admits in her world, chivalry theory is not really applicable.

[Lisa McCarley]

It may be true in the criminal courts that they try to treat women more gently, but I did, and I do often observe that women in probate court, the sister Eric's sister Kelly, the aunt Eric's aunt Patrice, these beloved relatives, the best friend Anna Durgan, were completely ignored. And that is another pattern That I observe in probate court versus the white older man who comes, you know, the court appointed attorney. In spite of all of the evidence of brain injury, the women were not considered to be as reliable witnesses and their requests were summarily, yeah, maybe, but Eric doesn't really want that. And that's a pattern that I observe a lot.

[Jonathan Walton]

Like women are ignored.

[Lisa McCarley]

Yeah, exactly. I mean badly. So in other words, you know that it's almost like in probate court if. If the white older man, who's the court appointed attorney. Attorney in most cases versus all of your female relatives that you could line up, you know, they're saying conservatorship is needed. The court will generally do what the court appointed attorney. In fact, they feel they act as if they're mandated to do what the court appointed attorney tells them to do.

[Jonathan Walton]

When they are not.

[Lisa McCarley]

They're not mandated. No, that would be the last person. And this all goes to the super dysfunction of the court system and what these attorneys are told to do versus what they should be doing. And this is exactly what I've been advocating for in terms of reform. So the court appointed attorney is told that he is supposed to be the zealous advocate and tell the court what Eric wants. And of course, Eric, having been injured, having a traumatic brain injury, is very easy to unduly influence and to persuade. I mean, he was persuaded to get married. And in real life, very few people just disappear into Santa Barbara or go to the courthouse. Very few people just suddenly decide to get married. Especially very few affluent people.

[Jonathan Walton]

What Lisa McCarley is getting at here is the fact that most wealthy people, people with millions of dollars in the bank, people with multiple homes and assets, only get married after weeks and even months of negotiating a prenup agreement with teams of attorneys. So the fact that Eric gets married lickety split under a shroud of secrecy is very suspect.

[Lisa McCarley]

So that absolutely was a red flag for the rest of the world. But in probate court, when this happens, and it does, and this is to me one of like the red flags of elder abuse. In this case, they just bought off. Like Eric says he wanted to do this. And of course the other red flag is just prior to this elopement, kidnapping. I would see it more like a kidnapping than an elopement. She was made aware that there were going to be allegations of financial elders abuse or abuse of a dependent adult. So she knows, everyone knows that if you're the spouse, then you know, and your spouse says, oh no, this is fine, then that's A way of kind of getting away with the crime. And I see that pattern over and over again. Eric expressed, I don't want Courtney prosecuted. I'm happily married. Even though we all know that it was the result of fraud and undue influence, the court appointed attorney interpreted his job as being protective of Eric's wishes instead of the reality of what was being done to Eric.

[Jonathan Walton]

I mean, she was telling him what to wish.

[Lisa McCarley]

100%. That's the undue influence. And I've screamed about this. So we have a vulnerable person who is parroting the language, the vernacular of his or her abuser. And then the court appointed attorney takes down the language of the vulnerable person and repairs that to the judge. So basically what the judge is listening to as the primary message is the wishes and the language of the abuser. And the judge says, oh, he doesn't want a conservatorship. Unbelievable.

[Jonathan Walton]

It's like a con artist game of telephone.

[Lisa McCarley]

Exactly. And the judges are in on it. Judicial officers, instead of as you and I immediately picked up on the red flag of she's facing accusations of financial abuse in a criminal context and they run off in a lope kidnap. She kidnaps him. You and I recognize that right away. A judge doesn't. It's insane. It's insane.

[Jonathan Walton]

It seems like such a broken, corrupt system.

[Lisa McCarley]

Yes. And it still is. And I still have to tell people when they are worried about mom or dad, I said, well, if they're unduly influenced, I said, there is a chance that the court appointed attorney is going to write a report telling the judge what to do. And they will basically be adopting the position of the abuser who's like programming.

[Jonathan Walton]

Them how to feel, what to say.

[Lisa McCarley]

100%.

[Jonathan Walton]

Wow. But life is a truly funny and fascinating thing. And just because things seem to be heading in one direction doesn't mean they can't turn on a dime. While con artist Courtney Baird appears to be getting away with everything, ironically, she's running out of Eric's money, the money she has access to anyway.

[Anna Durgan]

Now at this point, there's no more money that Courtney can get to Ana Durgan. All the other money's in the trust. The credit card's maxed out. Then she was going for the other credit card that had a $40,000 limit and she was just charging up there. So there was no more cash to get, no more physical money to get other than credit card cash advances. The only way that Eric can get access to his trust money is by getting evaluated by a doctor to see that he has capacity, unbeknownst to me. But I found out that he was getting evaluated. And it's a long process. It's not like, oh, just go to the doctor. Oh yeah, you have capacity. It's. You have to do eight hour testing. And it's really from a neuropsychologist. I found out who. The name of the neuropsychologist that was testing him, Dr. Tomaszewski. I gave that information to Detective Linkscheid. Linkscheid called, calls that doctor and gives them everything that's been happening. All that information is in the Dr. Tomaszewski's report.

[Jonathan Walton]

So he does not find Eric has capacity.

[Anna Durgan]

No, because he said in his report, Eric cannot comprehend the theft that is occurring. And then.

[Jonathan Walton]

And was this Courtney trying to get him evaluated?

[Anna Durgan]

Had to be, because he had no more money. He had.

[Jonathan Walton]

He doesn't know. He doesn't know that.

[Anna Durgan]

He doesn't even know how his bills are being paid. He didn't even know that he had bills.

[Jonathan Walton]

So it had to be Courtney trying to get him evaluated so she could get her hands. And now we're talking millions and millions of dollars in that trust.

[Anna Durgan]

That's what I'm saying.

[Jonathan Walton]

God, thank God that doctor, like, did his job right.

[Anna Durgan]

I love Dr. Tomaszewski. Such a brilliant guy.

[Jonathan Walton]

But then all of a sudden, while this back and forth about trusts and mental capacity and conservatorships is going on, Eric sort of comes to. His brain suddenly starts working again almost.

[Anna Durgan]

Three years from the time that Eric shot himself. So the brain is starting to rewire itself, starting to heal, starting to do whatever it needed to do in order to understand or get a little bit more comprehension.

[Jonathan Walton]

And in that magical moment of increased comprehension, Eric has a realization. He never wanted to marry Courtney Baird. She took him to that courthouse and tricked him into it. And the reasons he broke up with her in the first place years earlier come flooding back. And Eric finally understands that she's been stealing from him. So Eric confronts Courtney and tells her he wants a divorce and he wants her out of his house and he never wants to to see her ever again. But Instead of leaving.

[Anna Durgan]

911, watch our investigation.

[Jonathan Walton]

Courtney calls 911 and makes up a lie that Eric assaulted her. And then moments later, the cops show up and Eric Kramer makes national headlines.

[Anna Durgan]

Former NFL quarterback Eric Kramer is in jail tonight night, arrested at his Los Angeles area home on domestic violence charges.

[Jonathan Walton]

If you or someone you know is struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts, call or text 988 right now and speak with a counselor for free.

[Lisa McCarley]

Foreign.

[Anna Durgan]

To.

[Jonathan Walton]

Get the Eric Kramer story out there and into the public sphere. Because con artist Courtney Baird is not an anomaly. There are horrendous human beings just like her everywhere scamming vulnerable people right now. Help me spread this important story by sharing it with your friends and family and by leaving us a five star review because five star reviews tell that magical podcast algorithm to include us at the top of search results and prioritize our placement. The Quarterback and the Con Artist is produced, written and hosted by me, Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Media Executive producers Eric Kramer and Anna Durgan. Audio engineering by Justin Longer Beam editing and sound design by Hansdale she legal counsel provided by Ken Sterling from Sterling Media Law. We've got a lot of incredible stories in the works at Jonathan Walton Media, so make sure you subscribe and keep an ear out.

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