Josh Dean (1:30)

of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes

Rory Scoville (1:35)

opened its vault of secrets.

Josh Dean (1:37)

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nancy Glass (1:44)

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

Rory Scoville (2:05)

I was a monster.

Nancy Glass (2:07)

Listen to Burden of guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Rory Scoville (2:15)

Have you ever been interviewed by anyone from the FBI?

Josh Dean (2:19)

No, not yet.

Rory Scoville (2:20)

I have several times.

Josh Dean (2:22)

Wait, what?

Nancy Glass (2:28)

Campsite media.

Josh Dean (2:29)

Smart. Rory.

Rory Scoville (2:41)

Here we go.

Josh Dean (2:42)

Do you think you've committed any crimes today?

Rory Scoville (2:44)

Today?

Josh Dean (2:45)

Hmm.

Rory Scoville (2:46)

I don't think I have today. But if you mean in my lifetime, several. That's how I got this gig.

Josh Dean (2:53)

So how many crimes in your life do you think you've committed?

Rory Scoville (2:55)

I don't know. Three?

Josh Dean (3:00)

Wow, only three?

Rory Scoville (3:02)

I mean, but I mean, I don't. I don't. I don't even know what a cool number is. I sort of want to lie so that people are like, wow, this guy's edgy. Like, I've stolen from 7115 times. Twix every time.

Josh Dean (3:13)

Have you ever shoplifted?

Rory Scoville (3:14)

I think I have stolen a candy bar in my youth, but nothing that anyone would ever care about.

Josh Dean (3:21)

Well, if three is your number, according to at least one guy we're going to talk about this week, you are severely underestimating the number of crimes you don't even know you've probably, probably committed. Like, by a lot.

Rory Scoville (3:31)

Ooh, I like that.

Josh Dean (3:33)

Just guess how many crimes a 44 year old person has potentially committed on average over a lifetime.

Rory Scoville (3:39)

Oh, I feel like it's. Well, it must be high. I don't know. A hundred? Is that crazy? Or is that cra. Is that crazy high or crazy low?

Josh Dean (3:48)

The answer is 48,180.

Rory Scoville (3:51)

No. Well, at least I was close.

Josh Dean (3:54)

According to an author named Harvey Silverglate, the average person commits three federal crimes a day.

Rory Scoville (4:02)

I think Harvey has just committed a lot of crimes and he's trying to make us all feel bad with him.

Josh Dean (4:07)

Or he might be promoting his book, which is titled Three Felonies a Day. That is literally the title. Three Felonies a Day. I like a title that gets right to the point.

Rory Scoville (4:15)

Oh, man.

Josh Dean (4:16)

I don't know if that statistic is true, but I've done some reading and I take Harvey's larger point, which is that we all do commit a lot of crimes without realizing it. Like, we sometimes roll stop signs. We trespass on federal property. I mean, have you ever flushed your wife's weed down the toilet because you were worried the cops were coming by?

Rory Scoville (4:32)

I just was trying to help her get off weed.

Josh Dean (4:36)

Well, that's obstruction of justice. Or maybe you've picked up an eagle feather on your last hike in Vermont because you wanted to put it under the band of your favorite fedora.

Rory Scoville (4:46)

Oh, my God. Were you watching me all summer?

Josh Dean (4:49)

That's a violation of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act. And there are no exemptions for feathers that fell off naturally, which is called molting. Okay. Or from feathers from birds that died of natural causes. Like if it flew into the sliding glass door of your luxurious Colorado lake house.

Rory Scoville (5:04)

This guy sounds like the ultimate tattletale of all time.

Josh Dean (5:09)

It's also illegal to spit on a sidewalk in Virginia, and it's assault if you spit on someone.

Rory Scoville (5:14)

Oh my God.

Josh Dean (5:15)

And hoo, boy, cheating. Adultery is a felony in Michigan, Oklahoma, and Wisconsin. So if you're going to have an affair while you're out there on the road, keep that list in mind, because we don't have the budget to bail you out in Milwaukee or Tulsa.

Rory Scoville (5:27)

This is good to know. So I changed my. I've only committed two crimes my whole life.

Josh Dean (5:32)

Are you intrigued or frightened?

Rory Scoville (5:33)

I mean, I'm dazzled. This makes me. I hope all our listeners are like, all right, maybe I'm more of a bad boy than I thought.

Josh Dean (5:41)

I was converting bad boys one episode at a time.

Rory Scoville (5:44)

That's right.

Josh Dean (5:45)

Well, I could go on and on. Rory and I will at great length about the many crimes you are probably committing after the break this week on Crimeless. Everyone's a felon. Literally.

Rory Scoville (5:57)

Bum, bum, bum.

Josh Dean (6:11)

Hello, and welcome back to Crimeless, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals and helps identify miscreants and scofflaws in our mist. Like my co host, I'm Josh Dean.

Rory Scoville (6:24)

And I'm Rory Scoville.

Josh Dean (6:25)

I'm going to start this week by reading a little bit of the introduction from Harvey's book. Rory. Okay, I'm quoting him here. It is only a slight exaggeration to say that the average busy professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, takes care of personal and family obligations, and then goes to sleep unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day. Why? The answer lies in the very nature of modern federal criminal laws, which have become not only exceedingly numerous and broad, but also impossibly vague.

Rory Scoville (6:56)

That's exactly the world I always dreamed I could live in.

Josh Dean (6:59)

So it seems like Harvey's point is that it's not so much that we're all bad people, it's that there are so many fucking laws that we don't even know that we're breaking them.

Rory Scoville (7:07)

They've overdone it. Yeah.

Josh Dean (7:08)

So now Harvey's book, as you might have sniffed out, is somewhat political. He's not crazy about the long and invasive reach of Uncle Sam. His point is that we have way too many laws and lots of them are stupid. And that if we were actually enforcing these laws, we'd all be in jail. And I guess the country would be run by tiny children and dogs.

Rory Scoville (7:25)

Okay, all right. Maybe I do like Harvey after all.

Josh Dean (7:30)

How? What would it be like out there? Just. Just kids and dogs running it.

Rory Scoville (7:33)

I bet you no one would care that I swiped that candy bar. If a kid was in charge, they'd be like, of course you did. That's the only way to live.

Josh Dean (7:40)

I'd like to read you one more passage, if I could, or part of it. And this is, I think, a very interesting example of how bad things are.

Rory Scoville (7:48)

Okay, I'll allow it.

Josh Dean (7:50)

At the federal prosecutor's office in the Southern District of New York, the staff, over beer and pretzels, used to play a darkly humorous game. Junior and senior prosecutors would sit around and someone would name a random celebrity, say, Mother Teresa or John Lennon. It would then be up to the junior prosecutors to figure out a plausible crime for which to indict him or her. So.

Rory Scoville (8:09)

So if anyone listening was curious, if prosecutors were nerdy when they went out drinking, you now know they are.

Josh Dean (8:17)

Or how fucked you are if you're ever arrested. Because they all know how to convict Mother Teresa.

Rory Scoville (8:22)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josh Dean (8:23)

That's what they're doing in their spare time. Just thinking of ways to convict Mother Teresa.

Rory Scoville (8:27)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (8:28)

So it turns out that they. They're versed in, like, this incredibly broad spectrum of laws. Crimes like false statements, which is a felony. Up to five years. Obstructing the males. Five years. False pretenses on the high seas. Also five years.

Rory Scoville (8:42)

Hmm.

Josh Dean (8:42)

And the trick and the skill lay in finding the more obscure offenses that fit the character of the celebrity and carry the toughest sentences. The result, however, was inevitable. Prison time. So every time they were able to do it.

Rory Scoville (8:52)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (8:53)

Obstructing the males, of course, is US Code 1701, also known as obstruction of males generally. I did not know that the US Government said males plural for male. Huh.

Rory Scoville (9:04)

That's true. Is that proper in the loss?

Josh Dean (9:07)

It is. I don't think it is in English, though.

Rory Scoville (9:09)

I'm going to run down to check the males.

Josh Dean (9:12)

Start saying it.

Rory Scoville (9:12)

I. I fully intend to. Now.

Josh Dean (9:14)

And you can educate when your wife says, what are you talking about?

Rory Scoville (9:18)

I'm going to check the males. Oh, oh, you're going to a strip club. Yes, I'm going to check out the males.

Josh Dean (9:26)

Chippendales.

Rory Scoville (9:27)

Chippendales, males.

Josh Dean (9:29)

So that law actually refers to anyone who knowingly and willfully obstructs or retards the passage of the mail. These are some weird word choices in here, which could mean throwing out mail that comes to your house for previous tenants, even junk mail.

Rory Scoville (9:41)

Ooh, yeah, we've all done that.

Josh Dean (9:43)

Totally guilty of that.

Rory Scoville (9:44)

Yep.

Josh Dean (9:45)

Using someone else's WI FI network without their permission, which the law calls unsecured WI fi. That's a Crime.

Rory Scoville (9:50)

Most places I've sort of done that.

Josh Dean (9:53)

I'm totally guilty there, too. I think we should also play our own version of this game, though.

Rory Scoville (9:57)

Okay.

Josh Dean (9:58)

Let's call it Crimeless Confessions. Okay, cool. I'll go around and confess to the most exciting crime we've committed that is safely outside the statute of limitations.

Rory Scoville (10:09)

Okay, we'll all go around, just the two of us.

Josh Dean (10:12)

Lane's going to play.

Rory Scoville (10:13)

You made it sound like we have a giant bonfire going.

Josh Dean (10:17)

Lane's going to play. Maybe Ewan will jump in.

Lane Rose (10:20)

I'm back.

Rory Scoville (10:20)

Lane is There. There. There she is.

Ewan (10:23)

I did not sign up for this.

Josh Dean (10:25)

Too bad, Lamb.

Lane Rose (10:26)

We can't.

Josh Dean (10:27)

We can't add them, so I'm going to start. I'll set the table. So, back in late September 2001, I was a young reporter, and I went to California to do a story, and I ended up at a party where someone gave me some magic mushrooms. Okay, you're familiar. I know you're a fan, so you will understand that those are kind of a novelty for a resident of New York City at the time. And I decided I wanted to keep them. But I wasn't so stupid to try and fly home with the shrooms on me. So I mailed them in an unmarked envelope with no return address to my office.

Rory Scoville (10:57)

Well, okay,

Josh Dean (11:00)

I was young. I was just a young reporter. Yeah, this seemed extremely not risky. I got tons of mail at the magazine that employed me, and shrooms have no smell. They're not like weed, and no one was scanning packages for dried fungus back then. So I fly home, and what happens immediately after I return? Do you remember late September 2001, Rory?

Rory Scoville (11:20)

I happen to. Yeah, I happen to sort of remember that timeframe.

Josh Dean (11:26)

So after 9, 11, the country's on edge, and then something happens when someone out there starts mailing spores of anthrax to media people, including several people at NBC News, which is based at 30 Rock on Sixth Avenue in New York City. Do you know where my magazine was based, Rory?

Rory Scoville (11:41)

I'm willing to bet much money

Josh Dean (11:46)

on 6th Avenue right fucking next to NBC. Yeah, so, just to recap, I mailed weird organic material that was in reality a Schedule 1 controlled substance to myself in an unmarked envelope. The only week in American history when someone else was terrorizing the media by mailing weird organic material and unmarked envelopes.

Rory Scoville (12:05)

I mean, to get away with it and say that you didn't mail it to yourself. This actually. I feel like this is actually kind of smart. Like, good timing, in a way.

Josh Dean (12:13)

Oh, yeah.

Rory Scoville (12:14)

Well, because if it Gets. There you go. Oh, my God. Someone's trying to attack me, too.

Josh Dean (12:19)

Oh, I didn't think about that. I just crapped my pants.

Rory Scoville (12:23)

That's usually a giveaway.

Josh Dean (12:24)

So for like, a week there, I walked into work every day, assuming I was going to be fired and arrested for receiving psilocybin, a Schedule 1 controlled substance, or possibly arrested for terrorism. Fortunately, the story has a happy ending, because a week or so later, the

Rory Scoville (12:37)

shrooms just arrived and no one cared,

Josh Dean (12:39)

which was such a fucking relief.

Rory Scoville (12:41)

Did it look like the envelope had been tampered with?

Josh Dean (12:43)

No. And that's the thing. I was like. So then I started to worry. Like, was the postal service actually screening mail during the anthrax attacks?

Lane Rose (12:49)

Like, actually going to open anthrax?

Josh Dean (12:51)

What if it had been anthrax?

Rory Scoville (12:54)

Anthrax is kind of powdery, though, right?

Josh Dean (12:56)

It is, yeah.

Rory Scoville (12:57)

Yeah. Okay. I mean, this being more of a, I don't know, solid, structured item inside of an envelope with caps and stems, they probably. I bet they knew exactly what it was, but they were like, you know what? The world's crazy right now. Let this guy get high.

Lane Rose (13:10)

He deserves a win.

Josh Dean (13:11)

Yeah.

Rory Scoville (13:11)

Let this guy have this.

Josh Dean (13:13)

So in this case, I violated a series of laws possessing Schedule 1 drugs, obviously sending them in the mail as a form of distribution, and using the US Mail to do that distribution makes it a federal crime, and both the sender and recipient can be charged. I was both.

Rory Scoville (13:29)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (13:29)

All right. Rory, can you talk?

Rory Scoville (13:30)

Yeah. Your only way out of that is to be like, I'm also a member of the media. Someone must be after me.

Josh Dean (13:35)

They're looking for me.

Rory Scoville (13:36)

So in other words, you don't get arrested somehow. Now in the office, everyone's like, josh has got clout. Like, people are trying to kill him. That's how edgy of a reporter he is. He's found something.

Josh Dean (13:47)

It was one of the most scared I've ever been.

Rory Scoville (13:48)

I don't have anything that's going to top that story. I mean, I. I'm such a well behaved person. I. I think all mine are boring. Other than, you know, underage drinking. I've definitely trespassed. I've definitely done illegal drugs that by today's standards, are wildly legal.

Josh Dean (14:12)

Yeah.

Rory Scoville (14:12)

I don't know that I've ever done anything that was so. I feel like a nerd. I feel like my biggest crime is I drove a rental car and I wasn't listed.

Lane Rose (14:20)

Oh.

Josh Dean (14:22)

Well, I thought. You say across the border into Canada.

Rory Scoville (14:26)

Yes. I mean, into Canada. Yes.

Josh Dean (14:28)

Yeah.

Rory Scoville (14:28)

I don't know. I don't have anything that I feel like really skirted the law or would have ever led to anything. I was. I was a pretty well behaved guy. I wasn't some junkie sending myself drugs in the mail. I wasn't some New York version of, you know, Hunter S. Thompson.

Josh Dean (14:47)

Your. Your parents are going to love this episode. We so proud. Like, we raised a good.

Rory Scoville (14:52)

He was a good guy.

Josh Dean (14:54)

Yeah.

Lane Rose (14:54)

I don't think.

Rory Scoville (14:55)

I don't think I have anything that's, like, all right. Insane like that.

Josh Dean (14:59)

I mean, if you do want one.

Rory Scoville (15:00)

I underage, did rent a moped. This is actually funny. I went on vacation to Nantucket with my friend Mark Adamson in high school and his family. And I think I was 15 at the time, and you had to be 16 to have a vet to get to rent a Vespa. And so his dad went to rent it and then gave me the helmet to drive off, because now we had it. And I drove right back to the place because my helmet didn't fit. And the guy goes, well, no, you can't. You can't. Here's a new helmet, but you can't drive this. And his dad had to come back to put a helmet on and then drive off again. And we went one block, and then he got off, and he was like, don't go back there.

Lane Rose (15:42)

Don't let them see.

Rory Scoville (15:43)

Yeah. And so. Oh, maybe. I mean, this is all still so low level, but I wrecked the moped, destroying the side view. You know, the mirror, that's like. You just screw it out of the thing. And so we went to another moped that wasn't. No one was looking. And we unscrewed that one and put my broken one on it and then put the other one on mine, so.

Josh Dean (16:06)

Oh, that's theft.

Rory Scoville (16:07)

I have no idea. If we're outside.

Josh Dean (16:11)

I think you're safe.

Rory Scoville (16:13)

I feel like I'm safe now. I mean, that was, what, 30 years ago?

Josh Dean (16:17)

I'm pretty sure. Outside the statute of limitations. Thank you.

Rory Scoville (16:20)

Okay. Yes. But that's why I never really wanted to tell anybody that story. This is a first. This is an exclusive. This is a crimeless exclusive.

Josh Dean (16:27)

Call the New York Post.

Rory Scoville (16:28)

No, no, no, Josh, please.

Josh Dean (16:31)

All right, Lane, what about you? Got anything you want to confess?

Lane Rose (16:35)

I used to make burner accounts on Twitter and cyberbully celebrities.

Josh Dean (16:43)

Yes.

Lane Rose (16:47)

I think I'm out of the side of the statue of limitations.

Rory Scoville (16:49)

Wow. Dark horse over there, Lane.

Lane Rose (16:51)

It was really not cyberbullying. It was just, like, bothering. I would have a lot of time Left over during finals week because I was, like, a good student and so I didn't have to, like, cram. So.

Rory Scoville (17:01)

Lane, just so you know, every cyber bully says, no, it was more like bothering, so

Josh Dean (17:09)

we want names.

Rory Scoville (17:10)

Oh, you were cyber bothering. I didn't know you were cyber bothering.

Lane Rose (17:14)

The big one that I got a response from was Taylor Hicks.

Josh Dean (17:17)

Okay.

Lane Rose (17:18)

From. From. From American Idol.

Josh Dean (17:21)

Oh, I was. I don't think I know who.

Lane Rose (17:22)

2005 or six winner.

Rory Scoville (17:25)

Yeah.

Lane Rose (17:26)

And then I also would do. I don't know if you guys. You didn't have these when you were in college because. Hold on.

Rory Scoville (17:31)

Can I ask. Was the response like, hey, leave me alone?

Lane Rose (17:34)

He told me to get a grip.

Rory Scoville (17:35)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (17:36)

Yeah.

Rory Scoville (17:36)

Okay. Even. Even. That was peaceful.

Lane Rose (17:38)

Yeah. Very kind. Yeah, very kind.

Rory Scoville (17:41)

Very mellow.

Lane Rose (17:42)

Chill. Sorry. Taylor Hicks. I'd like to apologize. I don't know. I had a lot of caffeine. I'm pretty sure the statute of limitations on cyberbullying is, like, three years, so. And it.

Josh Dean (17:51)

Like, you did. Like, you didn't check.

Lane Rose (17:52)

Yeah, I did. I was like. I think I can confess this.

Rory Scoville (17:55)

It could be longer, though, for cyber bothering. You have to check. You have to be very specific.

Lane Rose (17:59)

I also would make these Twitter accounts called, like, you know, like, crushes. You would. You guys didn't have this, you know, Twitter, so it would be like, I went to Kent State, so it would be KSU crushes. To be like, oh, I have a crush on this kid in my science class. And it would be anonymous. I made one that was KSU crutches. And I would just post photos of people on crutches on campus.

Josh Dean (18:20)

I don't. Is that a crime? I'm not sure that's.

Lane Rose (18:23)

I don't know.

Josh Dean (18:23)

Is it even mean? I don't even know if it's mean.

Rory Scoville (18:26)

I think it could be helpful.

Lane Rose (18:28)

Yeah. I don't know. I was just like, this guy looks. I'd be like, oh, this guy's. This football player must have had a bad practice.

Rory Scoville (18:34)

I like that you said Josh and I didn't have Twitter. How old do you think we are?

Lane Rose (18:39)

Old. Well, it wasn't. It wasn't around when you were in

Josh Dean (18:43)

college when you guys are writing on your screen.

Rory Scoville (18:44)

It wasn't around when I was in college. You are correct.

Josh Dean (18:46)

Sure. That is fair. Yeah.

Rory Scoville (18:47)

She was correct about that. And honestly. Thank God, right? Yeah.

Josh Dean (18:52)

Very specific. People on crutches. I don't. I don't. Was it. I can't tell if.

Lane Rose (18:56)

Was that joke just playing words? Crushes, crutches.

Rory Scoville (19:00)

I mean, did you find that there? I mean, maybe there's a bigger issue here. And this is the reporter and Josh that's asking these questions, but why were so many people on crutches? Enough to facilitate an entire account on Twitter?

Lane Rose (19:12)

I didn't post a lot, but it was a hilly campus and it was, you know, snowy.

Josh Dean (19:18)

Slips and falls.

Lane Rose (19:19)

Turned ankles.

Rory Scoville (19:20)

A lot of slips and falls.

Josh Dean (19:22)

All right, well, yeah, I think the first part was kind of a crime. Cyberbullying, I believe, is.

Rory Scoville (19:27)

I think you win if this was a competition. Josh.

Lane Rose (19:30)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (19:30)

Ewan, have you ever violated a weird New Zealand law? Like you poked fun at Peter Jackson's beard?

Ewan (19:35)

Well, I mean, it's funny that you say weird New Zealand laws. Are you guys aware of how strict the customs laws are?

Josh Dean (19:42)

No.

Ewan (19:42)

Like, when you cross over into New Zealand, because New Zealand's a very controlled ecosystem.

Rory Scoville (19:47)

Right.

Ewan (19:48)

We have, like, no natural predators. There's, like, no poisonous insects or anything like that. So bringing anything with plant matter into New Zealand is very illegal. And a lot of people don't realize, like, I didn't do anything because I'm a good boy, but my wife didn't realize how strict these laws were. And she tried to bring in an alligator. No. She made this, like, really nice wall weaving for my parents and just, like, picked up a twig from a here in New York to, like, hang it on. And so that set off the system because you literally cannot bring in any organic matter. So they were like, what did you. You know, why are you trying to destroy our country with this stick?

Rory Scoville (20:30)

Yeah, this was New Zealand's 9, 11.

Josh Dean (20:33)

Yeah, yeah.

Lane Rose (20:35)

Now I remember this second twig has hit the tower.

Rory Scoville (20:38)

This has been talked about.

Josh Dean (20:39)

Yeah. Who can forget? Never forget is what Ewan always says in Z Strong. Was she thrown into, like, an interrogation room?

Ewan (20:47)

And no, again, in classic New Zealand style, they just. They let her off without anything.

Rory Scoville (20:53)

Like, they would be very polite.

Ewan (20:55)

Yeah, they were just like.

Rory Scoville (20:57)

They apologized to her.

Ewan (20:58)

They confiscated the stick, and then. Yeah, she went.

Josh Dean (21:00)

And then they just put that stick in a. Burned that thing, gave it to a police dog. Yeah.

Rory Scoville (21:05)

They don't even care. They make a big deal, and then they just use it.

Josh Dean (21:09)

All right, that was fun. We should do that more often. That should be an annual occurrence. The crime was confessed. Everyone get to work. Guys, break some laws.

Rory Scoville (21:14)

I'm going to think about out some more. I'm going to try to really dig deeper into my mind.

Lane Rose (21:18)

I gave up cyber bullying years ago,

Josh Dean (21:20)

so I'm going to take so many

Rory Scoville (21:22)

sticks to do that's. What someone with anonymous burner accounts would say.

Lane Rose (21:25)

Well, well, now I just use them to observe.

Rory Scoville (21:30)

Yeah. Which is also very, like, satisfying.

Josh Dean (21:33)

All right, after the break, more stupid laws.

Nancy Glass (21:42)

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

Rory Scoville (21:59)

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

Nancy Glass (22:03)

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

Josh Dean (22:11)

I'm like, lord, this can't be real.

Rory Scoville (22:13)

I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.

Nancy Glass (22:19)

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

Rory Scoville (22:28)

I was a monster.

Nancy Glass (22:30)

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What if mind control is real?

Josh Dean (22:44)

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

Nancy Glass (22:47)

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

Rory Scoville (22:50)

When you look at your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

Nancy Glass (22:55)

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

Josh Dean (22:57)

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

Nancy Glass (23:01)

Can you get someone to join your cult? NLP was used on me to access my subconscious. Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

Josh Dean (23:17)

It's about engineering consciousness.

Nancy Glass (23:19)

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.

Lane Rose (23:37)

This is wild.

Nancy Glass (23:38)

Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Rory Scoville (23:44)

Welcome to the A building. I'm Hans Charles. I'm Menelik Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr have both been assassinated, and black America was at a breaking point. Rioting and protest broke out on an unprecedented scale in Atlanta, Georgia. At Martin's alma mater, Morehouse College, the students had their own protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Sr. And a young student, Samuel L. Jackson. To be in what we really thought was a revolution. I mean, people were dying. 1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.

Josh Dean (24:23)

The FBI had a role in the murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.

Rory Scoville (24:30)

This Story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should, and it will blow your mind. Listen to the A building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Josh Dean (24:46)

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

Rory Scoville (24:56)

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

Josh Dean (25:00)

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary.

Rory Scoville (25:10)

Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

Josh Dean (25:13)

I now have several terabytes of an

Rory Scoville (25:16)

MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life.

Josh Dean (25:20)

And that's a unicorn.

Rory Scoville (25:22)

No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

Josh Dean (25:27)

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

Rory Scoville (25:36)

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Josh Dean (25:49)

I could probably fill the rest of the episode and many more by simply reciting to you a long list of ridiculous laws in America. Like in the nanny state of Alabama, you cannot chain your alligator to a fire hydrant. You may not drive barefoot, and you may not have an ice cream cone in your back pocket at any time.

Rory Scoville (26:04)

Look, I agree with a lot of these, but the last one, like chaining an alligator to a fire hydrant, like, that's just. Who's trying to do that? That is literally. That means when someone goes, well, you know, if it's a law, it had to happen at least once. Like, let's not rate laws just because one guy had some wild ideas.

Josh Dean (26:22)

It is Alabama, though.

Rory Scoville (26:24)

Great point. Very good point. So you're saying this did probably happen quite a bit.

Josh Dean (26:28)

It was problematic at some point.

Rory Scoville (26:33)

Yeah. You know what? You're actually. I take that I retract what I said.

Josh Dean (26:35)

You're right. What about. Are you anti driving barefoot?

Rory Scoville (26:38)

I am not, but it. I've driven barefoot. Should have fucking told that in my bad boy story. But I've driven barefoot. It doesn't feel right.

Josh Dean (26:47)

It doesn't. I agree.

Rory Scoville (26:49)

It doesn't feel right on the bottom of your foot to actually feel the size of the pedal. The accelerator is not as big as you want it to be.

Josh Dean (26:56)

I agree. And you're. Yeah, you're weird. Your toes are, like, wrapping around the pedal. It's just. It's not right.

Rory Scoville (27:01)

It's not right.

Josh Dean (27:01)

I'm in favor of that law.

Rory Scoville (27:03)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (27:03)

I do Know that in Arkansas, it's illegal to buy or sell blue light bulbs. I have no idea why. In Washington, D.C. it is illegal to post a notice in public which calls another person a coward for refusing to accept a challenger duel.

Rory Scoville (27:15)

Yeah, so that one's definitely not outdated in any capacity.

Josh Dean (27:20)

In Georgia, illegal to use profanity in the presence of a corpse. A state law in Illinois mandates that all bachelors should be called master, not mister.

Rory Scoville (27:30)

Wait, where?

Josh Dean (27:31)

Illinois. Okay. When addressed by their female counterparts, master, not mister. Please inform your wife.

Rory Scoville (27:36)

Yep.

Josh Dean (27:37)

Honey, from now on, well, no, you're

Rory Scoville (27:39)

not a bachelor, so you are a mister.

Josh Dean (27:41)

Oh, yeah, Right.

Rory Scoville (27:42)

You have to be a bachelor.

Josh Dean (27:43)

That's right.

Rory Scoville (27:44)

To be called a master.

Josh Dean (27:45)

And finally, here's a twist. In your home state, Colorado, it's now legal, not illegal, legal to remove the furniture tags that say do not remove under penalty of law.

Rory Scoville (27:56)

Why do they say that?

Josh Dean (27:58)

I don't know.

Rory Scoville (27:59)

Why do mattresses when people. That's a running joke since we were kids. Like, you can't take the tag off a mattress. What is the point of that?

Josh Dean (28:07)

Well, I just have to say the lawmakers in your state are doing the Lord's work. They've made it legal. You're allowed to. They're finally like, enough of the reign of terror of mattress tags.

Rory Scoville (28:16)

You know, And I'd like to take a little bit of credit for that. You write enough angry letters, you can get the law changed.

Josh Dean (28:21)

It's true.

Rory Scoville (28:22)

There is. There is an outcome. A positive outcome.

Josh Dean (28:26)

Dear sirs.

Rory Scoville (28:27)

Yeah, Dear sirs, the tag is scratching

Josh Dean (28:29)

my skin, but I'm afraid of going to jail.

Rory Scoville (28:32)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (28:33)

So this list, by the way, was aggregated by arguably the most reliable source of legal information in America. I'm speaking, of course, about a PDF found on the website of the Forest Grove elementary in Pacific Grove, California.

Rory Scoville (28:45)

I second that.

Josh Dean (28:46)

That's where you go for your legal information, right?

Rory Scoville (28:48)

Every single time.

Josh Dean (28:49)

So if any listeners are wondering, how the hell did Josh find a list of weird laws aggregated by a random grade school in California, That's a very good question, and the answer is Google's new AI search. It served it up to me. Which speaks volumes about why we should all cool our heels about AI or

Rory Scoville (29:05)

the amount of research AI doesn't want to do to help you.

Josh Dean (29:07)

That whack robot thinks an elementary school is on par with, like, the Department of Justice website.

Rory Scoville (29:12)

Even AI just clicked the first link and was like, here, just read this, Josh.

Josh Dean (29:16)

Another of the Google AI weird law responses was, quote, according to a Facebook post by an attorney,

Rory Scoville (29:25)

all relevant sources.

Josh Dean (29:27)

Anyway, I enjoy the hell out of this stuff and could keep going, but there's not a lot of point to it since most, if not all of these laws aren't actually enforced anymore. It's just that no lawmakers have bothered to reverse them. Except for the good ones in Colorado who ended the tyranny of mattress tags. That's right. Which doesn't mean we aren't still enforcing some dumb laws and that we also aren't all breaking laws that aren't dumb, but often seem annoying. Like, you've definitely texted while driving.

Rory Scoville (29:50)

I'm sure.

Josh Dean (29:51)

I mean, and you've probably littered. I bet you've even pirated some music in your day. Napster.

Rory Scoville (29:56)

Yes.

Josh Dean (29:56)

Limewire.

Rory Scoville (29:57)

Yes. Okay, I don't know that I've littered. I really can't stand littering.

Josh Dean (30:01)

Never in your life.

Rory Scoville (30:02)

I mean, maybe. Maybe the first time I ever did it, and someone's like, you shouldn't do that. And I was like, oh, my God, you're right.

Josh Dean (30:08)

I have.

Rory Scoville (30:08)

I despise it when I see an adult litter. I'm like, who have you interacted with your whole life where no one was like, hey, who do you think is

Josh Dean (30:17)

going to pick that up?

Rory Scoville (30:18)

It is true, but stealing music? You betcha.

Josh Dean (30:20)

So your total. Your crime total is going up. I don't think you've noticed texting while driving.

Rory Scoville (30:24)

You got it.

Josh Dean (30:25)

Well, now you're starting to see why you wildly underestimated your tone.

Rory Scoville (30:29)

I'm going to get a leather jacket

Josh Dean (30:31)

after this episode and start smoking.

Rory Scoville (30:34)

And a pocket knife that's really a comb,

Josh Dean (30:40)

If I can get real for a second. My public service announcement this week is to definitely not lie if you're being investigated by Feds. And for this, I will use the cautionary tale of our national treasure, the eminence grise of napkins and chow dogs, Martha Stewart, who Harvey Silvergate also uses as a cautionary tale in his book. Martha was not, as I had long assumed, charged with insider trading. She was charged with the federal false statement statute, which Harvey calls. One of the oddest features of federal crime is that while it's not. While it is a felony of perjury to lie under oath, it is likewise a felony to lie even when not under oath. Oh, so it's like this weird trap that the Feds set for you. Like, you don't have to actually lie about the thing that they think that you did.

Rory Scoville (31:22)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (31:22)

You just have to lie during the course of interview. And so it seems like that's what Happened to Martha. They caught her in a lie. So she didn't come in insider trading when she sold shares of the company, McLone, because she wasn't actually a fiduciary of that company. So she was allowed to sell shares. She just wasn't totally honest when they investigated.

Rory Scoville (31:37)

Oh, man.

Josh Dean (31:38)

And this is what gets people all the time. The feds are very good at catching people in lies. They practically set out to do it every time. Because even when they can't make another charge stick, if they can catch you in a lie, you're screwed. So, Rory, be careful.

Rory Scoville (31:50)

Yes.

Josh Dean (31:51)

That.

Rory Scoville (31:51)

This is good to know.

Josh Dean (31:52)

It's also a tactic my wife likes to very occasionally deploy. Yeah, on a few occasions when she suspected me of dishonesty, she'll turn up the heat and ask a series of questions that she knows the answer to. Until she catches me giving the wrong answer. Yes.

Rory Scoville (32:05)

And that's a happy marriage.

Josh Dean (32:08)

The wrong answer may well be an innocent mistake. Like I told her, something happened on a Tuesday instead of a Wednesday. Yeah, but in the heat of an interrogation, that slip up takes extra significance. It colors the whole exchange.

Rory Scoville (32:19)

Have you ever been interviewed by anyone from the FBI?

Josh Dean (32:23)

No, not yet.

Rory Scoville (32:24)

I have several times.

Josh Dean (32:26)

Wait, what?

Rory Scoville (32:27)

Yes, because a friend that I grew up with was trying to become a member of the FBI. And that means you get interviewed. They will come to you to interview you. Like, I was visited in college by an agent, an FBI agent, to be asked questions about myself and my friend.

Josh Dean (32:48)

Like, trying to catch. Find out if he'd, like, sold drugs or.

Rory Scoville (32:51)

Yeah, just anything, any kind of behavior. I think it's to see how honest he was about his application. It was so easy because my friend was an angel. Did he get it like myself? I think he ultimately did not do it. But you know what I think about sometimes? I think sometimes he did do it. And he's a secret operative type guy living a double life like in that movie True Lies. And I'm like his Tom Arnold, only I'm not employed by the FBI. Or maybe I am.

Josh Dean (33:24)

Dun, dun, dun.

Rory Scoville (33:26)

A podcast about crime. I'm sure all our listeners are like, wow, Rory is really well informed.

Josh Dean (33:32)

This was a sting. It's an ongoing sting.

Rory Scoville (33:34)

It's an ongoing sting.

Josh Dean (33:35)

Catch people.

Rory Scoville (33:36)

But I got to say, being interviewed by a member of the Federal Bureau of Investigations, which just feels like an absurd title, is. It is a little nerve wracking. And you do feel this responsibility to just lay it all out there. He asked me about any drug, drug I'd done or anything I'D ever done. I was just, like, saying everything, being like, it's all there. There you go. Yeah.

Josh Dean (33:56)

Red Devils.

Rory Scoville (33:57)

Like, have you ever drank underage? You betcha. Yes. Off drugs? Yes.

Josh Dean (34:03)

So you can see why, like, I think they catch people all the time and end up charging them with lying because they're just, like, they know everything about you already, and then they know at some point you're going to lie about something innocuous.

Rory Scoville (34:12)

And that's a little bratty. It makes us. It does make you sit here and go, okay, FBI. Jesus.

Josh Dean (34:18)

Did Martha have to go to prison?

Rory Scoville (34:20)

I mean, this whole time, everyone in the public's, you know, specter just thinks that it was insider trading.

Josh Dean (34:26)

I know I did.

Rory Scoville (34:28)

And also, none of us cared about it, given the fact that our politicians do that. Yeah, but it was just for lying, which our politicians also do.

Josh Dean (34:38)

This week, we get political.

Rory Scoville (34:40)

Yeah. You guys probably didn't know that I was mega pro Martha Stewart, but I am.

Josh Dean (34:44)

I'm also pro Martha Stewart. Yeah, I thought. I thought. I thought it was not fair.

Rory Scoville (34:48)

Not fair.

Josh Dean (34:49)

She's an actual treasure.

Rory Scoville (34:50)

I agree.

Josh Dean (34:50)

Her chows needed her. All right, well, in closing, Rory, be very careful how you answer the feds or my wife.

Rory Scoville (34:56)

Yeah. Side note, also a federal agent.

Josh Dean (35:00)

And that is it for now. After the break, our game segment winner stays out of jail until the next episode.

Rory Scoville (35:07)

Oh,

Josh Dean (35:13)

Lane, what do you have for us this week?

Rory Scoville (35:16)

Lane's game.

Lane Rose (35:19)

Thank you, Rory. Since we're all committing crimes, I figured we should brush up on prison slang. Oh, all right, so I've just got some prison slang that I want to quiz you on.

Rory Scoville (35:29)

Okay.

Josh Dean (35:29)

Do we define it, or are you

Lane Rose (35:30)

going to multiple choice you to define it?

Rory Scoville (35:33)

I bet I get none of this, right? That's how much faith I have in myself.

Josh Dean (35:36)

Well, Rory, you can't do worse than you did on the vice presidential trivia.

Rory Scoville (35:39)

That's exactly right. Yes.

Lane Rose (35:41)

All right, bats.

Rory Scoville (35:44)

So you're saying what are bats?

Lane Rose (35:46)

What are bats?

Rory Scoville (35:47)

In prison and Josh and I are on the same team.

Lane Rose (35:50)

Yeah, sure.

Rory Scoville (35:51)

That makes me feel better if we're on the same team for this one. Yeah, wherever. Where everyone wins and loses together. Well, we know it's not baseball related, correct? Given the. The fact that it's even on there.

Josh Dean (36:02)

Bats.

Rory Scoville (36:03)

Is it a. Is it a smoking device?

Josh Dean (36:05)

I was going to say a cigarette.

Lane Rose (36:07)

It is a cigarette.

Josh Dean (36:08)

Yes. Look at us.

Lane Rose (36:08)

You guys are both right. All right, Dance on the blacktop.

Rory Scoville (36:12)

Oh, hey, now, escaping through the roof via the roof is my guess. Josh. Josh, you're your own Person.

Josh Dean (36:20)

I'm going to say, wait, I want to change mine. Having sex.

Lane Rose (36:24)

Okay, you're going to change yours, Rory?

Rory Scoville (36:26)

Well, if it's a Price is Right kind of thing, I think I'm going to be closer to a right answer than Josh. But dancing on the blacktop, I feel like that's going to be, like, the yard, and I feel like basketball happens down there. And so I want to say playing basketball.

Lane Rose (36:42)

Rory's closer. It is getting stabbed by another inmate.

Josh Dean (36:47)

I mean, well, I mean, hold on a second.

Lane Rose (36:50)

Okay.

Rory Scoville (36:51)

What is everybody into? Is more of the question.

Josh Dean (36:54)

But yeah, I was gonna say I might be closer, actually, I.

Rory Scoville (36:59)

Playing basketball is another. Another slang term. I was doing sort of a subreddit with my answer, which also means to stab someone.

Lane Rose (37:05)

Yes, I'm going to play basketball.

Rory Scoville (37:07)

Dancing on the blacktop. Okay, got it.

Lane Rose (37:09)

Okay, how about a slack?

Rory Scoville (37:11)

A slok slack.

Josh Dean (37:14)

I don't even think I have a guess for this.

Rory Scoville (37:18)

A weapon of some sort. I'm going to go broad with all of my. Something that occurs in a prison. All my answers are broad.

Josh Dean (37:24)

I have no guess. Pass.

Rory Scoville (37:26)

I'm going to go with a weapon. A slack is a weapon.

Lane Rose (37:28)

That is correct. It is a lock in a sock.

Josh Dean (37:32)

Oh, a lock in sock.

Lane Rose (37:34)

You got that right. Yes, it's a weapon. You put a lock in a sock.

Rory Scoville (37:37)

By the way, if I get the most right, then in that case, we're not on the same team, and I was on my own team the whole time.

Lane Rose (37:41)

Okay, Prison pocket. Alternative title for this permanent pocket.

Josh Dean (37:51)

A stab wound.

Rory Scoville (37:53)

You are a. You're in a. You work for some head of a prison gang, and you're an unpaid Internet for that gang, for that person. Just. Josh, trust me.

Lane Rose (38:05)

Okay?

Josh Dean (38:05)

I'm going. Stab wound it is.

Lane Rose (38:07)

Anus.

Rory Scoville (38:09)

Okay, okay.

Josh Dean (38:11)

Oh, permanent. Because you hide stuff in there, but you put it in your butt.

Lane Rose (38:15)

Yep. The phrase time to feed the warden.

Rory Scoville (38:19)

Time to feed the warden.

Josh Dean (38:20)

Get in a fight.

Rory Scoville (38:21)

Financial blackmail. The warden knows something, and if you don't give him something, he's gonna give you something.

Lane Rose (38:29)

No needing to go to the bathroom.

Rory Scoville (38:32)

Okay.

Josh Dean (38:33)

Oh, God.

Rory Scoville (38:34)

It's when they're G rated, it's really hard to figure out having to go potty.

Lane Rose (38:41)

Yeah, that's a thinker. It's just you eat their food and you give the food back. Next one. Boneyard visit.

Josh Dean (38:48)

Oh, that's gotta be a conjugal visit.

Rory Scoville (38:51)

Wait, you just nodded. Is that right?

Josh Dean (38:53)

She did give a clue there.

Rory Scoville (38:54)

I'm gonna go with conjugal visit.

Lane Rose (38:56)

Yeah, it's conjugal Visit without kids? Because you could do a conjugal visit with your kids.

Josh Dean (39:00)

What?

Lane Rose (39:00)

It's like a family visit.

Rory Scoville (39:02)

What does conjugal stand for? And why haven't we just changed that to visit?

Josh Dean (39:06)

Well, no, conjugal's where you get to have sex with your partner.

Rory Scoville (39:09)

But, I mean, is that what conjugal means? Because, I don't know, Lane just said you're gonna have a conjugal visit with kids, which makes me go, that's not what that means.

Lane Rose (39:16)

Conjugal is relating to marriage or the relationship of a married couple. So if you're married with kids, your kids are going to come along.

Rory Scoville (39:22)

Okay, so family time.

Lane Rose (39:24)

Yeah.

Josh Dean (39:24)

Okay. But you also, if you're going to Bonetown or whatever the thing was while your kids were there. That's fucking weird.

Lane Rose (39:30)

Yeah, you should.

Rory Scoville (39:31)

Highly.

Josh Dean (39:31)

Highly upsetting.

Rory Scoville (39:32)

When you're in prison, how often are you allowed to have a conjugal visit?

Lane Rose (39:36)

I think it depends. On, like, your sins?

Josh Dean (39:38)

Yeah.

Rory Scoville (39:39)

Once a week?

Josh Dean (39:39)

No, I don't think it's once a month. It's probably more like once a month. Okay.

Lane Rose (39:43)

Okay. A couple more. Tucci. What is tucci?

Rory Scoville (39:47)

Stanley Tucci Pasta. It's pasta night. Tucci means it's pasta night in prison and everyone's talking a pass.

Lane Rose (39:57)

Okay, it is not Stanley Tucci. It is card stock that's been saturated in bug spray and smoked.

Rory Scoville (40:04)

Oh. Oh.

Lane Rose (40:06)

It's a problem in prison in Florida.

Josh Dean (40:08)

Gross.

Rory Scoville (40:09)

Florida.

Josh Dean (40:10)

Yeah, Florida.

Lane Rose (40:11)

And finally, stainless steel ride.

Rory Scoville (40:14)

Also sounds sexual.

Josh Dean (40:16)

No, I feel like that's like they pound your head into the bar. It's a fight thing.

Rory Scoville (40:20)

Like a metal weapon.

Josh Dean (40:22)

Are we right?

Lane Rose (40:23)

No, it is death by lethal injection.

Josh Dean (40:26)

Oh. Oh. Way to end on a real dark one there.

Lane Rose (40:28)

Wow. I mean, I just thought it was a good.

Rory Scoville (40:30)

As long as we're sending our listeners off into the sunset with a beautiful image in their mind.

Josh Dean (40:35)

What was the word again? Or the phrase?

Lane Rose (40:37)

Stainless steel ride.

Josh Dean (40:39)

Oh, all right.

Rory Scoville (40:39)

Stainless steel ride.

Josh Dean (40:41)

Let's. Let's end with some sad music.

Lane Rose (40:44)

Note to self. End with slock.

Josh Dean (40:47)

Pour a little out for the death penalty.

Lane Rose (40:49)

I don't agree with it.

Josh Dean (40:50)

I don't either. I think we can all take a stand.

Rory Scoville (40:52)

Anti death penalty pro Martha Stewart.

Josh Dean (40:55)

Absolutely. Our platform is evolving over time.

Rory Scoville (40:58)

Crimeless, not afraid to hide. Not afraid to not. Never mind. Crimeless. The end.

Josh Dean (41:04)

See you next time week. Crimlyss is a production of Smartless Media, Campside Media and Big Money Players, in partnership with Iheart Podcasts. It's hosted by Rory Scoville and me, Josh Dean. Our Senior producer is Lane Rose. Emma Siminoff is our Associate producer. We're sound designed and engineered by Blake Brook with support from E1 Lighthouse Tremewan. Mark McAdam composed our theme song. The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Sher and me, Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart podcast and Big Money Players are Jack O', Brien, Lindsey Hoffman and Matt Apodaca. For Smartless Media, the executive producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Richard Courson. Bernie Kaminski is Head of Production. The Associate producer is Matty McCann. A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. Do you have a question, comment or confession for the Crimless team? Email us@crimlyampsidemedia.com and if you enjoyed Crimly, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. It helps people find the show and also makes us feel validated. Unless you're mean, in which case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week. Primalist Nation.

Rory Scoville (42:35)

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.