How to escape from prison (in England)

Summary

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Crimeless – Episode Summary

Podcast: CrimeLess
Episode: How to escape from prison (in England)
Hosts: Josh Dean & Rory Scovel
Date: February 25, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the legendary escapades of Alfred George Hines—alias "Houdini Hines"—a British master escape artist of the 20th century. Josh and Rory break down Hines' remarkable ability to repeatedly break out of prisons in England during the 1950s and 60s, analyze the comic absurdities of the English justice system, and debate whether Hines was a criminal genius or simply facing incompetent jailers. The episode is part biography, part legal lesson, and full of the show’s signature humor and irreverence.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Legend of 'Houdini Hines'

[03:36–05:10]

• Alfred George Hines was a pale, balding Englishman, not quite the movie-version escape artist.
• He became famous for escaping British prisons multiple times, spending over 841 days on the run.
• Hines' tragic childhood saw his father whipped to death as punishment for armed robbery; young Alfie then began a life of running, beginning with escaping a children’s home at age seven.

“He was basically on the run most of his adult life.”
—Josh Dean [04:29]

2. Youth, Crime, and War

[05:18–08:51]

• Early crimes included petty theft and escape from British youth "borstals" (juvenile detention).
• His escape methods at this stage are lost to history: “His own book just says that he ran away.”
• Was drafted for WWII, but escaped the army too, possibly due to his home being bombed.

“The army’s not a prison… you’re not exactly allowed to just quit.”
—Rory Scovel [08:53]

3. The (Alleged) Furniture Heist

[08:55–10:47]

• Settled down and married, but in 1953, was accused (and claimed to be framed for) robbing a furniture store of £38,000 (over £1.3M today).
• Claimed he was set up by "Gridley Nichols": “Which we all know is not a real name at all.” —Rory Scovel [09:39]
• Despite little real evidence, his criminal record swayed the jury; Alfie was sentenced to 12 years in Nottingham Prison.

4. Escapes Executed, Escalating Legend

[10:53–16:48]

• Escape 1 (Nottingham): He memorized and duplicated the key from the workshop, scaled two walls, and evaded the police dog “Frankie the German shepherd” (“His one job, follow the scent... Frankie fails.” —Josh Dean [13:04])
• Hines traveled across Europe, picked up a new life in Dublin, and became notorious as “Houdini Hines.”
• Eventually caught again, he next escaped during a court appearance by padlocking guards in a bathroom and making a run for an airport (“Like a cartoon scene, basically.” —Josh Dean [16:49])
• Recaptured after boarding a flight to Dublin.

5. More Escapes & Exaggerations

[21:35–24:41]

• Escaped multiple times by making copies of keys—sometimes scaling 30-foot prison walls and once fleeing via the prison bathhouse.
• Cops repeatedly assumed he’d go to Ireland, and he succeeded in getting to Belfast under the alias William Herbert Bishop, and tried selling used (sometimes stolen) cars.
• Caught again, this time only just failing: he tried to smash a window and escape but passed out from blood loss.

6. Alfie the Jailhouse Lawyer

[25:04–27:13]

• While back in prison, Alfie decides to fight his conviction legally: “He studies the British legal system...his common-law wife helps him by reading legal books in the British Museum.” —Josh Dean [25:20]
• He discovers at the time that escaping prison wasn’t technically illegal in England. He files a series of appeals, even pleading before the House of Lords, all while wearing the traditional (syphilis-inspired) English legal wig.

“He spends three hours stating his case in front of the House of Lords.”
—Josh Dean [26:07]

7. Closing the Case—Through the Courts

[27:57–32:12]

• After his legal appeals fail, Alfie realizes he can use England’s strict defamation (libel) laws against the detective who had arrested him, “Iron Man” Herbert Sparks.
• Alfie sues Sparks over newspaper claims, forcing the detective to prove his guilt—which, lacking hard evidence, he cannot.
• Alfie wins both a cash payout (£400,000 in today’s terms) and public exoneration:

  “He’s now been essentially ruled not guilty by a jury… This is some serious 7D chess.” —Josh Dean [30:53]

• The Home Secretary finally orders Alfie’s early release. Ironically, he would have been freed 73 days later anyway.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hines' repeated escapes:
  “He literally has the most impressive resume that lives on both sides of the law.”
  —Rory Scovel [23:48]

• On the absurdity of English prisons:
  “This is all seeming way too easy. What’s wrong with England’s prisons?”
  —Josh Dean [22:16]

• On English legal traditions:
  “They didn’t just stop...doing it all together, just suspended. But not because they’re outdated or smelled bad or itchy. It’s because the House of Lords are cheap.”
  —Josh Dean on legal wigs, [27:28]

• Alfie’s Lawyering:
  “One of his most convincing arguments was that escaping prison wasn’t even technically illegal according to British law at the time.”
  —Josh Dean [25:54]

• On Iron Man’s nickname:
  “And also the audacity to go out to the guys, to go to the tavern and go, hey, you know, instead of calling me Herbert, let’s try Iron man tonight.”
  —Rory Scovel [28:49]

• On the skill gap between Hines and the authorities:
  “I think the ‘crimelessness’ moniker goes to the law...to all the people in charge of keeping this guy in jail.”
  —Josh Dean [33:14]

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Segment: Real or Fake Prison Breaks ([38:04–44:39])

A comedic quiz testing Rory and Josh’s crime movie knowledge.
Examples:

• Stephen J. Russell’s heart attack escape: Real (and in the movie I Love You, Phillip Morris) [38:34]
• Climbing out with tied bedsheets: Real—John Patrick Hannon (still at large since 1955) [39:57]
• Escape with beard and guard uniform (from White Collar): Fake [41:09]
• Escape by picking a lock with a feather (from Kung Fu Panda): Fake [42:03]
• Frank Abagnale (Catch Me If You Can): Real [42:52]
• Canadian “re-socialization” bank robber: Real (Robert Walters) [43:48]

“These are a lot of good moves, England. You could just walk right out. Still fine. Totally fine.”
—Rory Scovel [43:39]

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• Alfred “Houdini” Hines’s escapes highlight both individual ingenuity and astonishing gaps in England’s prison system of the era.
• Sometimes, legal savvy and a clever exploitation of the system win ultimate freedom.
• The story walks the line between legend and slapstick, wrapped with the hosts’ sharp comedic tone.
• Hines’ greatest success wasn’t tunneling out, but outmaneuvering the system itself—and later arguing for smarter police and joining Mensa.
• As Rory sums up, “We have to have somebody in first place. And so right now, it’s Alfie. Let’s see if anyone can dethrone Alfie in terms of not being smart enough to stop going to jail, but smart enough to know how to get out once you’re there.” [33:31]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [03:36] Introduction of Alfred “Houdini” Hines
• [05:18] Childhood and first escapes
• [08:55] Accused (and allegedly framed) for the big furniture heist
• [10:53, 12:48, 21:35, 22:10] Major prison escapes
• [25:04] Hines turns jailhouse lawyer
• [27:57–32:12] Legal endgame—winning in court, not breaking out
• [38:04–44:39] “Real or Fake Prison Breaks” quiz segment

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a hilarious, fast-paced look at one of Britain’s most creative criminals, blending historical detail with pop culture references, legal lessons, and the hosts’ signature wit. Listeners walk away entertained, a little wiser about English law, and maybe—just maybe—with a few escape tricks to share at parties.

Transcript

[Josh Dean]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rory Scoville]

Guaranteed Human.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get podcasts.

[Josh Dean]

What if mind control is real?

[Rory Scoville]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Josh Dean]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scovel]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Josh Dean]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Josh Dean]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games.

[Josh Dean]

A new podcast, exploring nlp, AKA neuro linguistic programming. Is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam? Or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Rory Scoville]

Evidence has been made sufficient. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

[Amanda Knox]

What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God. I think she might be inn.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rory Scoville]

Can you spell syphilis? Hard word to spell.

[Rory Scovel]

S Y Phyllis.

[Rory Scoville]

Campsite media. Okay, Rory, I've got a great question for you this week.

[Rory Scovel]

All right, hit me. Hit me right, right in the earballs.

[Rory Scoville]

What's the best way to escape from prison?

[Rory Scovel]

I think Tim Robbins answered that. You spend a lot of time digging a hole behind a movie poster and eventually go through a sewer system and Climb through a pipe of shit and then come out in a creek somewhere. So, nice try, Josh. Nice try, But I already got it.

[Rory Scoville]

What are you digging that hole with? A spoon. Right?

[Rory Scovel]

With a spoon, right.

[Rory Scoville]

That you've smuggled from the cafeteria that

[Rory Scovel]

Matt Morgan Freeman helped get.

[Rory Scoville]

All right, you nailed it. Next question.

[Rory Scovel]

It's all right there. It's all right there.

[Rory Scoville]

Actually, I was going to say, how about tricking the prosecution back into court and convincing them to unlock the handcuffs themselves?

[Rory Scovel]

All right. I didn't know we were doing magic.

[Rory Scoville]

Here we go. This week, the story of one of the most prolific and creative escape artists of the 20th century. A guy who tried all kinds of things, but in the end won his freedom by tricking the cops into sabotaging their own case. Wait, is this guy too smart for Crimeless? I guess you'll be the judge.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

This is Crimeless. Welcome back to Crimeless, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals. I'm Josh Dean.

[Rory Scovel]

And I am Rory Scoville.

[Rory Scoville]

Okay, I got a treat for you this afternoon, Rory.

[Rory Scovel]

I'm very excited.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm going to tell you about a guy who became a folk hero in England in the 1960s for breaking out of prison many times.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Rory Scoville]

He spent a total of 841 days on the run, which doesn't even include his juvenile delinquencies. He was basically on the run most of his adult life.

[Rory Scovel]

Man.

[Rory Scoville]

What do you imagine that the master of escapes would look like? Tough question. I mean, it could be anything, but, like, do you have an image in your mind?

[Rory Scovel]

I'm picturing Hugh Jackman from the Prestige.

[Rory Scoville]

Good answer. Good answer. This guy's name is Alfred George Hines. And I use the past tense here because Alfred is no longer with us. When he was alive, he was a pale, balding guy with glasses who liked to wear suits. A 1962 Time magazine article described him as a, quote, peaceable chap, and everyone called him Alfie.

[Rory Scovel]

All right? Likability. So he had likability on his side.

[Rory Scoville]

He did. And a cute name. You don't hear a lot of Alfies anymore.

[Rory Scovel]

You don't. You don't get that a lot.

[Rory Scoville]

So to really understand this chap, we got a flashback to his childhood. Picture this. East London, 1920s. It's cold, it's dirty, it's probably raining. Everything is gray, even the people. And little Alfie's dad gets arrested for armed robbery and his sentence. Because the 1920s in England were apparently still. The medieval times was 10 lashes of a whip known as the cat. O9 tails.

[Rory Scovel]

Man.

[Rory Scoville]

This is the 1920s. So Alfie's dad died, it seems, from those lashes or the aftermath. And little Alfie gets sent to live in a children's home.

[Rory Scovel]

How old is Alfie?

[Rory Scoville]

Seven.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Rory Scoville]

And at just seven years old, he makes his first escape from the children's home.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

So he's a prodigy.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. And nothing new about a child of crime being wildly traumatized by quote, unquote, justice and leading to a life of crime. This story. This story follows a typical script here so far.

[Rory Scoville]

Are you saying that if your father had died from being whipped to death, you might have an effect on what would happen the rest of your life?

[Rory Scovel]

I think more than likely, yeah. I think I'd probably have an issue with authority.

[Rory Scoville]

So, sadly, the method of this first escape is a mystery. His own book just says that he ran away, which is probably right, because I don't think there's high security in a, like a home for seven year old boys because they, you know, assume you maybe would stay.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially if you have nowhere to go.

[Rory Scoville]

But anyway, he runs away. A few years later, he's arrested for petty theft, shoplifting. Basically, he's placed in a British home for troubled teens called a borstal. A borstal is apparently a thing established in 1902 as a sort of junior prison, a place for teen criminals to be quote, trained through hard work and discipline. Sounds fun.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. And to also share with each other their experiences so that everyone can face to face, gain more knowledge of how to break the law more effectively or ineffectively, I guess, if they're all in this prison together.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. Because we, we know that, like, what definitely works with troubled teens is putting them in, like, an austere place and making them work really hard.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Surrounded by other troubled teens who are also upset at the exact same thing. Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

Yep. Great idea, guys.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

You're not going to be shocked when I tell you that Alfie broke out. How do you think he did it this time?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, I feel like he probably just was like, hey, I'm gonna go get the mail. I don't know. I can't stop picturing the movie Annie where he just got in the dirty laundry and was carted out.

[Rory Scoville]

I mean, actually, the truth is, I don't know the answer. We couldn't find out. So we're just gonna go with your version.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, great. Everyone picture Annie. And picture that the whole Borstol sang a song before he left.

[Rory Scoville]

So then World War II breaks out. He's drafted into the British Army. And the escape from that, too. It seems like his home gets bombed in 1941.

[Rory Scovel]

Also picture everyone that he escaped the army by getting in the dirty laundry. And everyone sing a song before that as well.

[Rory Scoville]

They just stop, put their guns down, and break into a little number. He had heard that his home had been bombed and he felt like he had to run home and help by deserting, apparently. Again, details a little fuzzy. This is an older story, so we weren't quite able to get some of the granular detail of his early years. But suffice it to say, he's broken out of basically every. The army's not a prison. I guess it's a kind of prison.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

You're not exactly allowed to just quit.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep, that's right.

[Rory Scoville]

So for the next few years, he's pretty much on the lam. He has a few stints in jail, and then he finally settles down and get married. But then in 1953, his quiet life is disrupted when he's accused of cracking a safe at a furniture store and stealing 38,000 pounds worth of cash and jewelry, which is more than 1.3 million in today's money.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, man. Wow.

[Rory Scoville]

So he was on the up and up and then.

[Rory Scovel]

And he got married because he stole her heart. Thief through and through.

[Rory Scoville]

I shouldn't have laughed at that.

[Rory Scovel]

No, you should have. It was my best joke.

[Rory Scoville]

It was pretty good. Alfie claims he was framed, though. He says a buddy from his old crime days, a guy named Gridley Nichols, which is awesome.

[Rory Scovel]

Which we all know is not a real name at all.

[Rory Scoville]

So Gridley says he can get him a nice rug, which were very pricey at the time and still are. Have you bought a rug lately? Very surprisingly expensive rugs.

[Rory Scovel]

Look, all I'm going to say is it's. No, it's no surprise Gridley turned to a life of crime. Like, obviously, zero support from his parents. They're at the hospital. What do you want to name the baby? Gridley. All right. Well, he was. He clearly grew up unloved. I'm Gridley Nichols. You wouldn't believe that name in a musical.

[Rory Scoville]

I was going to say it. It seems like he's, like, holding a cane, Swirling a cane. Right.

[Rory Scovel]

Has an eye patch. I'm Gridley Nichols.

[Rory Scoville]

Well, the story Alfie said, he says, so Gridley wants to borrow his car to pick this sweet rug up. It was an offer Alfie couldn't refuse. So he lends Gridley his car, but Gridley never comes Back with the car or the rug. So Alfie calls the cops. Oh. Turns out Gridley and his crew had used the car to rob a furniture store. And Alfie pleads innocent. All the evidence against him is circumstantial, but of course, because of his life of crime, his long rap sheet, he's charged. And after a 30 minute deliberation, a jury declares that Alfie is guilty.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

He's deemed a most dangerous criminal, despite never really hurting anyone, and sentenced to 12 years in prison.

[Rory Scovel]

Man.

[Rory Scoville]

And not just any prison. Nottingham prison. I don't know anything about Nottingham prison, but it's. It's like a city that's in Robin Hood, I think.

[Rory Scovel]

I think don't mess with the Sheriff. That's all I know.

[Rory Scoville]

So he's in Nottingham. How do you think prison went this time?

[Rory Scovel]

Well, I assume everyone's in tights and earth tones and constantly having to watch bow and arrow competitions from afar.

[Rory Scoville]

Do you think he sticks around?

[Rory Scovel]

Of course not. This guy's life of crime, it's less a life of crime and it's more a. Honestly, a life of freedom. It just shows the human spirit cannot be contained. As Morgan Freeman said, some birds feathers are just too bright.

[Rory Scoville]

Is that an actual quote from I screwed it up.

[Rory Scovel]

But yeah, if. If the listeners are willing to hit pause, go back and rewatch Shawshank right now, and then come back and unpause it, you'll. You'll know that I'm right.

[Rory Scoville]

Sometimes it makes me sad though, and being gone, I have to remind myself that some birds aren't meant to caged. Their feathers are just too bright. All right, wow. How many have you seen Sha Shang?

[Rory Scovel]

A lot of times I've never seen it.

[Rory Scoville]

Okay, so Alfie breaks out, of course. Like I, you know, and this time, how do you. Any ideas for how you've already used your. You got laundry basket?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, they know. They know the not to not do the laundry system. I don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm surprised that anyone breaks out of prison, but yet at the same time, you find it happening more often than you'd ever think. But I don't know, back then I feel like it's so lackadaisical. Like just, you know, I picture Star wars where you just punch someone, put on their clothes, and walk straight out the front door.

[Rory Scoville]

Close. He memorized the shape of the key to the jail's workshop and made his own copy.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, my God.

[Rory Scoville]

Wow.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

And then along with another inmate, he used pieces of wood from the Workshop to scale two walls, then rips through a metal fence and ran.

[Rory Scovel]

Good for him.

[Rory Scoville]

Nottingham police and a German shepherd named Frankie gave chase, but the dog quickly loses the scent. His one job, follow the scent.

[Rory Scovel]

Quickly loses the scent. Like he just didn't want to jog.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, because it's not even a hard thing for dogs to do. That's literally. That's what. That's all they do.

[Rory Scovel]

You think he'd be excited. Finally, an escapee.

[Rory Scoville]

Nope. Frankie fails. So cops question drivers and suspicious cars watch train stations around England. But Alfie's gone. And he's also now a bit of a legend with a nickname. Houdini Hines.

[Rory Scovel]

I like that a lot.

[Rory Scoville]

What would you do if you were locked up and you escaped? What would you do?

[Rory Scovel]

All I can think about is Harrison Ford quickly shaving his beard and cutting his hair and then trying to figure out who killed his wife. Now, whether that's happened to me or not, I still would probably pursue medical data to prove that I'm innocent. I don't know.

[Rory Scoville]

Well, Alfie decides to jaunt around Europe and Ireland, and he eventually lands in Dublin and starts a business as a builder decorator. So, again, getting back, landing on his feet, trying to start over, stay out of trouble. But while he's at large, he also wrote to politicians and newspapers proclaiming his innocence, which is maybe not a great idea if you're trying to stay under the radar.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, especially when you're including the return address on those envelopes.

[Rory Scoville]

And like, eight months later, Scotland Yard finally catches up with him and arrests him. So this time, Alfie goes to a prison in Chelmsford, which is a town in Essex known as the birthplace of radio. Side note, I've been there to make radio a podcast, so this is. I was very excited to see. That's all I can tell you about it. There was the first. I think radio signal was transmitted from there. Okay. It's in Essex. It's. Yeah. Not notable for. For much else. Do you have a favorite English town?

[Rory Scovel]

No, I feel like I haven't explored enough, so. No.

[Rory Scoville]

Can I offer you a few actual British town names and you could choose one.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes.

[Rory Scoville]

Chosen for no specific reason, and they are no order, but Bitchfield, Cockermouth, Netherwallop, Peniston. Which is spelled Pena Stone. Yeah. Wetwang and Titty Ho.

[Rory Scovel]

Well, I. What was the second one?

[Rory Scoville]

Cockermouth.

[Josh Dean]

All right.

[Rory Scovel]

What was the one before that?

[Rory Scoville]

Bitchfield.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. I'm either gonna go Bitchfield or. What was the titty one?

[Rory Scoville]

Titty Ho two.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Titty ho or bitchfield Just feel like me.

[Rory Scoville]

Anyway, to get back on track, Chelmsford is where Houdini Hines has been put this time.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Rory Scoville]

But he decides to try a new tactic. He sues the prison commissioners, claiming they arrested him illegally, which was, of course, just a cover story for his next audacious escape.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

Yes.

[Rory Scoville]

So while at the court appearance for his lawsuit, some of Alfie's buddies sneak him a padlock. So, Rory, you're a prisoner in court where you're supposedly suing your captors. You're handcuffed, and now you have a smuggled padlock in your pocket. How are you getting out of this one?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, you're acting. You're asking this as though I have years of experience in this. I have no idea. I just love the fact that the friends showed up like, hey, hey.

[Rory Scoville]

Here you go, good buddies. The lesson here is friendship.

[Rory Scovel]

Hey, we brought you something.

[Rory Scoville]

Well, like so many great escapes, this one starts in the toilet.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

Alfie tells the guards he has to hit the loo. So they walk him over to the bathroom and unlock his handcuffs. Now, there's a couple different accounts of what happened next, but it seems like Alfie, possibly with the help of his brother, shoves the guards into the bathroom, padlocks the door and runs away.

[Rory Scovel]

That's it. That's what happened.

[Rory Scoville]

That's it. He lured them to court, said he had to use the bathroom. Shoves. It's like a cartoon scene, basically.

[Rory Scovel]

It does seem like this was like he saw this in a Marx Brothers film and thought, this is what I'll do.

[Josh Dean]

That's it.

[Rory Scoville]

That's.

[Rory Scovel]

These guys know what they're doing.

[Rory Scoville]

It works. And he makes it all the way to the airport. And he was buckling into his seat on the plane to Dublin when the cops found him and arrest him again.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

So now it's back to prison for Alfie again. Yep. What's his next move? That's after the break.

[Mind Games Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Rory Scoville]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scovel]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Host]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a User manual for your brain.

[Rory Scoville]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Host]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP, might actually work.

[Josh Dean]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Host]

Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast.

[Rory Scovel]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer. No doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK evoking horror and disbelief.

[Rory Scovel]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is

[Rory Scoville]

now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Amanda Knox]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain, a nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Rory Scoville]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Amanda Knox]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Rory Scoville]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Rory Scoville]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Rory Scoville]

He pulls the gun, tells me to

[Rory Scovel]

lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm like, lord, this can't Be real.

[Rory Scovel]

I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[Rory Scoville]

The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of Guilt, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is crimeless.

[Rory Scoville]

So before the break, we learned that Alfie was back behind bars. And I'm sure you're on the edge of your seat because you can't possibly imagine what this unpredictable man is going to do next.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, I mean, he basically seems like Leo from Catch Me if youf Can. That's what I. That's the vibe I'm getting. This guy's just. He knows what he's doing.

[Rory Scoville]

He can't be contained.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

So cops arrest him again and he escapes again. And yet again, he busted out by making a copy of the key. I feel like they got to fix this loophole.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, like.

[Rory Scoville]

Like, Jesus. It was a fucking key again.

[Rory Scovel]

This guy's really good at keys this time.

[Rory Scoville]

The key is for the prison bath house. Alfie and a fellow inmate climb over the prison's 30 foot wall and ran to a getaway car waiting for them. This is all seeming way too easy. What's wrong with England's prisons?

[Rory Scovel]

It seems cartoonish. I think you said that earlier. And every time I'm picturing sort of an animated escape.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, like, like a little British man wearing, I don't know, like knickers and like a top hat. Just like cram one over the wall. Yes.

[Rory Scovel]

30ft. And also you're saying 30ft, like, it's just no issue. Just like.

[Rory Scoville]

And we just.

[Rory Scovel]

Spider man right up the wall.

[Rory Scoville]

And the main source for a lot of this information is Alfie. So we can probably assume that some bit of, you know, exaggeration has been applied to his own legend. But, like, I prefer it this way.

[Rory Scovel]

No, I think you're right.

[Rory Scoville]

So assuming that Alfie's going to flee across the border to Ireland, because that's where he's gone before. The cops are monitoring routes from England, but they don't do a very good job because Alfie makes it this time to Belfast, where he assumes the identity of a used car dealer named William Herbert Bishop, which is, yeah, actually a much less colorful name than his real name, which I guess is not a bad tactic. Like, don't pick a ridiculous name.

[Rory Scovel]

I got to say, like, I'm blown away by Alfie's ability to be a criminal. Go to jail, escape sometimes start his own business, get arrested, go to jail, escape, and still manage to gain employment across a number of fields. You know, he's like, I'll just sell used cars like, like it's nothing to him.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. Most criminals, like, just return to the life of crime. He's just like, no, I'm going to start a new career now.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

He literally has the most impressive resume that lives on both sides of the law.

[Rory Scoville]

Well, it's not going to shock you to learn that some of the used cars he sold were a little bit shady, perhaps. And so Alfie gets caught yet again when he's pulled over by cops in an unregistered car that turned out to be stolen.

[Rory Scovel]

God, it's like he's so good at getting caught and he's so good at getting away. If he could just tip the scales, he could have so some consistency in his life.

[Rory Scoville]

Like sell used cars that are actually just used, not stolen.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah. Or just be better at not getting caught and then you don't have to be good at escaping.

[Rory Scoville]

It's almost like he wants to get caught. Maybe.

[Rory Scovel]

I think you're right.

[Rory Scoville]

So you know he's just gonna bust out of the Irish jail too. This time he opts for the most direct route. He smashes a window, but cuts himself so badly that he passes out before he can get away.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, Alfie.

[Rory Scoville]

So escape for a very short amount of time, then passes out in his own blood and is caught. So this time they ship him back to England to yet another prison. What do you think happens next?

[Rory Scovel]

How can I. I mean, just given the pattern here, he escapes, but I. I have no idea how. I'm shocked that any of these methods have worked ever, the whole time.

[Rory Scoville]

Actually, Alfie taught himself the law.

[Rory Scovel]

Exactly, exactly. Actually, he learned how to represent himself and now he's a full fledged lawyer.

[Rory Scoville]

You're not far off.

[Rory Scovel]

Come on.

[Rory Scoville]

So Alfie, first he sells his story to a British tabloid for a small fortune, because of course, like, what a story. Yeah. Then he hunkers down in his cell and he studies the British legal system. He recruits the help of his common law wife, who spent hours reading dusty old legal books in the British Museum. This is an amazing montage, by the way, in the movie.

[Rory Scovel]

Also an amazing partner. She stuck with him this whole time. Get out of town. Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

What a lady. Eventually, when he felt like he had this shit down, he files an appeal of his conviction. And for two years, Alfie fights in court representing himself. One of his most convincing arguments was the fact that escaping prison wasn't even technically illegal. According to British law at the time. So maybe some of those convictions are a little bit shaky.

[Rory Scovel]

Man.

[Rory Scoville]

During one appearance in 1960, he spends three hours stating his case in front of the House of Lords. That House of Parliament where everyone wears those big wigs.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

It's also the country's highest court of appeal. Actually, I want to pause on the wigs for a second. They're ridiculous and they're still required at all criminal trials in England, which is amazing. Yes. It turns out the tradition started in the 1600s after a syphilis outbreak. What do you think the correlation is between syphilis and.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, whereas hair just falling out and people are like, we still need to. I want people to think I have hair. I can't.

[Rory Scoville]

You're right. I can't. You're exactly right. One of the symptoms of syphilis is hair loss, which you obviously knew for some reason. Something weird.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, it's the only Google thing I have up on my screen right now.

[Rory Scoville]

Symptoms of syphilis. Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

I was like, just in case this ever comes up, be ready.

[Rory Scoville]

So, yeah, it's. Syphilis causes hair loss. Wigs become fashionable to hide baldness as well as lice. Because that was also a problem back then. The trend spread to courts and eventually it became policy that lawyers and judges had to wear wigs in order to work in a court. Over years, members have complained that wigs are old fashioned or itchy or both. But the House of Lords, where Alfie was appealing his conviction, upheld this tradition for centuries. Until Covid

[Rory Scovel]

again. Covid strikes again.

[Rory Scoville]

Under Covid, they had to hire some temporary clerks and they didn't want to spend the money on temporary wigs. So hundreds of years of sacred tradition is just suspended. Not because the wigs were.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, it's only suspended. They didn't just stop, they didn't stop

[Rory Scoville]

doing it all together, just suspended. But not because they're outdated or smelled bad or itchy. It's because the House of Lords are cheap.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

But don't worry, wigs are back. They're still worn in criminal proceedings. Anyway, with Alfie, his 13th appeal is dismissed yet again by the venerable and itchy House of Lords. In 1962, everyone in England assumed this meant it was time for Alfie to escape again. Because, like, the lawyering thing just isn't working out. Right. Like, he tried, he, like taught himself the law.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. And I like that he took the MC Escher approach. Like, hey, escaping isn't even illegal. They were like, ah.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

He.

[Rory Scovel]

The One loophole that's the easiest to close. He figured it out.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. I think it only got some charges reduced. Unfortunately, there was, like, the stolen cars and all the other stuff. So he failed. So.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

And he did seem to have something planned. Guards found that he'd messed with his cell door so that it opened and closed when he wanted it to. He even warned the head of the British court, saying, quote, I'm not going to remain in prison. It would be very hard for me to leave again, but I assure you, I'm going to.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

Then, before he could bust out, he got a little sidetracked. The detective who had arrested him back in 1953, a guy named Herbert Sparks,

[Rory Scovel]

who, again, not a real name.

[Rory Scoville]

Not a real name. Even better, when I tell you that he had given, or more likely given himself the nickname Iron Man. I mean, he definitely made that up.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, that's. And also the audacity to go out to the guys, to go to the tavern and go, hey, you know, instead of calling me Herbert, let's try Iron man tonight. Kind of throw Iron man around the table a little bit. And his friends are like, I mean, okay. It just. It seems desperate.

[Rory Scoville]

So Iron man writes two newspaper articles claiming that Alfie's appeals are ludicrous because He Absolutely, definitely 100% robbed that furniture store. Which brings me to a new segment called Crimeless Law School. Oh, that's right. By the end of this episode, you're gonna be ready to take the bar in England. In Tidy Ho.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes, you're listening to Crimeless Law School.

[Rory Scoville]

So England has famously strict defamation laws. It's way easier to sue someone for writing something bad about you than it is here in the US and in England, the burden of proof is on the defendant.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Rory Scoville]

Which is kind. A little bit confusing. So we could do an example. You can make up a mean lie about me, Josh.

[Rory Scovel]

Often upper decks, the toilets of his closest friends. Oh, sorry, was that a little too abstract?

[Rory Scoville]

No, no, we'll take it. It works. So you've just made up this horrible offensive, offensive line.

[Rory Scovel]

So you assume. Go ahead.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, so. And I'm going to sue you. If I sue you in the uk you have to prove that your lie is true or I win. So tough one, right? Not.

[Rory Scovel]

Not easy.

[Rory Scoville]

Whereas if I sue you in the US I have to prove that you were lying and you lied intentionally.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Rory Scoville]

And you could say, you know, in US Court, you could say, like, well, I heard that from a guy, you know, and I seemed. That guy was a reliable source. And I truly believed that it was true. In England, you have to prove that your lie is true. You have to prove it. In the other case, I have to prove it. So anyway, now that you're basically a lawyer in Titty Ho, you'll understand Alfie's next move here, he sues Iron man for libel.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes.

[Rory Scoville]

Which forces him to prove in court that Alfie really did rob that furniture store. But the evidence was all circumstantial, so Iron man can't do that. Yeah, he can't convince the jury that Alfie is guilty. Houdini Hyde wins the lawsuit, which is about 400 grand in today's money. Nice little pickup for him.

[Rory Scovel]

Wow.

[Rory Scoville]

And even better, he's now been essentially ruled not guilty by a jury. Yeah, this is some serious 7D chess.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, the question you asked at the beginning of this war, the curious statement you made is, I don't know if this guy qualifies for crimeless. We now know does not. That was that this guy's a genius.

[Rory Scoville]

I agree.

[Rory Scovel]

He's a genius. However, I think the. The crimelessness moniker goes to the law. It goes to all the people in charge of keeping this guy in jail.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, it's like in the cartoon, the big fat. He's like all the prison guards who are asleep, Right? Yeah. A bunch of boobs. Buffoons. And then Iron man, who's like, I got you. I'm gonna write a piece of the newspaper.

[Rory Scovel]

I've always wanted to be a journalist. And that will be my ultimate downfall.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, man. So, so now the Home Secretary, which is the head of the Home Office, the UK government body in charge of security, like keeping it safe from crime, decides that Alfie should be released from prison. Like, what else are they going to do? So after losing 13 appeals of his robbery, he's finally free. And he got his freedom by suing the guy who put him there in the first place.

[Rory Scovel]

Perfect closure. Perfect closure.

[Rory Scoville]

This just wrapped this narrative up with a bow.

[Rory Scovel]

And he learned the law. He bettered himself. He got a little bit of scratch as he left.

[Rory Scoville]

Now here's a interesting little P.S. he would have gotten out of jail 73 days later anyway. And his conviction was never actually appealed. So he's still technically guilty in the eyes of the law. But who cares? He's a free man.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

The. The great Houdini Hines final act of escape was legal.

[Rory Scovel]

And he did say, I will get out. I will escape again. And he was right.

[Rory Scoville]

He was right.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

According to his New York Times obituary, Alfie later went on the speaker circuit giving talks, quote, arguing for a more intelligent police force. To your point, interesting. He also joined Mensa.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, I don't know what else you do. You've done everything else. You're going to want to join Mensa.

[Rory Scoville]

So would you like to change your answer now? Has the story of Houdini Hines made you rethink at all your strategy for breaking out of prison?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, a part of me wonders if I could just legally ask to leave and they might go, Ah, this guy's done his homework. If anyone asks to get to leave, we have to let him do it.

[Rory Scoville]

I mean, I think there's a big asterisk on this episode because this guy is not a dimwit at all. Brilliant man. Special. Maybe have a special canon of, like, you know, the crimeless hall of fame, most of whom will be idiots, I think.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

But this guy, not an idiot.

[Rory Scovel]

Well, we do have to have somebody in first place. And so right now, it's Alfie. Let's see if anyone can dethrone Alfie in terms of not being smart enough to stop going to jail, but smart enough to know how to get out once you're there.

[Rory Scoville]

All right, number one spot has been claimed. It's your turn, Florida.

[Mind Games Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Rory Scoville]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scovel]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Host]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic Programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Rory Scoville]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Host]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New Age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.

[Josh Dean]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Host]

Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK, evoking horror and disbelief.

[Rory Scovel]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is

[Rory Scoville]

now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Amanda Knox]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Rory Scoville]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Amanda Knox]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Rory Scoville]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast, the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Rory Scoville]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast, I now have several

[Rory Scovel]

terabytes of an MSS officer. No doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn. No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Rory Scoville]

He pulls the gun, tells me to

[Rory Scovel]

lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real.

[Rory Scovel]

I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[Rory Scoville]

The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rory Scoville]

Okay, it's time for our final segment, and this week, Lane, what is our final segment?

[Josh Dean]

We have real or fake prison breaks. I'll tell you about an escape, and you got to tell me if it's real or fake.

[Rory Scoville]

Yes, as fake as in made up or from a movie.

[Josh Dean]

Or fake as in from a movie.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Josh Dean]

Fake as in from my mind.

[Rory Scovel]

Fake as in things I want to try.

[Rory Scoville]

All right, so we're doing real either real escape in real life or from a movie or TV show. Okay.

[Josh Dean]

Correct. All right, you ready? This con artist was already on the run when he faked a heart attack, was brought to a hospital, and then called the hospital pretending to be the FBI and told them that he could be released.

[Rory Scoville]

Rory, you go first. Real. I'm also gonna go real.

[Josh Dean]

That is right. That is Stephen J. Russell, who you might know because Jim Carrey played him in the film I love you, Philip Morris. This was one of his many escapes from the authorities.

[Rory Scoville]

Wait, so both answers would have been true in that case, right? I mean, it is real, but it

[Special Agent Riegel / Narrator]

was also

[Josh Dean]

a real movie.

[Rory Scoville]

Look at that loophole. Mr. Loophole right here. I studied the law, and I know the rules of this game mean it

[Rory Scovel]

was such a real escape, they decided to do a fake version in a movie.

[Josh Dean]

This woman escaped through a hole in a fence during a prison riot.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean it. Well, Josh, you're up first this time.

[Rory Scoville]

It feels like it's had to have happened. That's got to be real.

[Rory Scovel]

It does feel like that is real.

[Josh Dean]

It's fake. This was May Chang in Orange is the New Black. Apparently in the show, police found her sleeping in a dead deer.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh. So she went. She went full Star Wars.

[Josh Dean]

This man escaped prison by knotting sheets together and using them to climb over the prison wall.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, that's probably both, right? I mean, you've definitely seen that in a movie, but I gotta assume art imitates life.

[Rory Scoville]

Isn't. Isn't that Rapunzel?

[Rory Scovel]

That's hair, Josh. That's hair.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, okay. I'm gonna go. Yeah. I feel like this is definitely real.

[Josh Dean]

This is real. This was John Patrick Hannon, who still is at large today. He holds the record for longest time on the run after Prison Break.

[Rory Scovel]

What year was that break?

[Josh Dean]

December 1955.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, at what point do you just go, all right, you got us. We're gonna stop looking?

[Josh Dean]

Have fun out there?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, you know what? You did it. Good for you.

[Josh Dean]

Maybe he's a fan of the show.

[Rory Scoville]

And that brings us to the first Crimeless Presents challenge. Can you find listeners? Can you find. What's his name?

[Josh Dean]

John Patrick Hannon.

[Rory Scoville]

He's like, God damn it. The podcast.

[Rory Scovel]

If you can find 93 year old John Patrick Hannon,

[Josh Dean]

he escaped in Britain. So, yeah, Gez. England's just not doing so good with their.

[Rory Scovel]

Well, they. They stopped doing the top sheet for sure. They're like, all right, fitted, only we. We screwed up.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

All right, next.

[Josh Dean]

This man spent Months growing a beard, then shaved it off, slicked back his hair, put on a prison guard outfit, and walked right out of prison. Real or fake?

[Narrator / MSS Officer]

What?

[Rory Scoville]

Gotta be real.

[Rory Scovel]

I'm gonna go real.

[Josh Dean]

It's fake. This is the show White Collar starring Matt Bomber Boomer.

[Rory Scovel]

Never seen it.

[Josh Dean]

Bummer. No idea how he got the guard uniform, but that's good storytelling.

[Rory Scovel]

You could have told us how he got it.

[Rory Scoville]

I like that. He grew a beard and then shaved it off. And that fooled people. Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

And everybody was like, you look like that one guy before he grew a beard.

[Josh Dean]

Crazy.

[Rory Scoville]

That's my cousin.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

Also a beard. You know, full beard maybe takes a month at its, like, slowest. You look like Jeremy from 30 days ago.

[Josh Dean]

All right. After rampaging his hometown, this infamous fighter was locked up in a super maximum security prisoner and pick the lock with a feather.

[Rory Scoville]

The feather.

[Rory Scovel]

That sounds fake.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm going fake. Also.

[Josh Dean]

This is fake. This is a leopard, played by Ian McShane in the 2008 hit film Kung Fu Panda.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes. Not even. Not even live action. Good God. Thank God we got that right. That could have been bad. That could have been real bad. Rory.

[Rory Scoville]

Rory.

[Rory Scovel]

Josh, that was a cartoon.

[Rory Scoville]

It was Kung Fu Panda.

[Rory Scovel]

They grew wings because they made a wish and flew over the wall. God.

[Rory Scoville]

Real.

[Josh Dean]

All right.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, boy.

[Josh Dean]

This lovable con artist convinced guards that he was an undercover agent who'd been placed there to review the prison. It worked, and he was allowed to walk out.

[Rory Scoville]

That's real. I think.

[Rory Scovel]

I think that's real, too.

[Josh Dean]

It is. It's Frank Abingale Abagnale.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, there you go. From Catch me became.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. He even got a fake business card to show the guards he was FBI.

[Rory Scovel]

They're to review the prison. Is there any space Yelp won't go? You know what I mean?

[Rory Scoville]

Also, though, dumb. Are those cards. You think that's the thing. They would, like, check with the warden. They'd be like, that guy's saying that he's here undercover.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Like everybody looks sharp. We're getting reviewed today. By a guy who looks just like Frank without a beard. His hair is, like, back, and he's got really good looking hair.

[Rory Scoville]

It's gonna be so much harder to escape from prison after this episode. We're giving away all. Giving away all the tricks.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. These are a lot of good moves, England. You could just walk right out. Still fine. Totally fine.

[Josh Dean]

All right, this is the last one. You guys have a chance to redeem yourself.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Josh Dean]

This man, while incarcerated, was taken to a bar by a prison guard. Got drunk, and while the guard wasn't looking, he ran across the street and robbed a bank.

[Rory Scoville]

This sounds like Alfie.

[Rory Scovel]

It sounds so outlandish that you want us to say fake, but I'm gonna go real.

[Rory Scoville]

I also think it's real.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, it is real. That's Robert Walters. He was on a re socialization break from prison. I guess that's a thing in Canada when he robbed that bank. But he was immediately caught, taken back to prison, and then charged with bank robbery.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, man. So he was free only long enough to rob a bank and got caught again.

[Rory Scovel]

He was only re socialized enough to be like, oh, I remember how to drink at a bar, but I don't remember what not to do after.

[Josh Dean]

Crime is good.

[Rory Scovel]

Drinking is yummy. Crime is delicious.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God. He's just. What a. He had a brief moment of freedom. All right, well, we'll have to total them up later. We all won. We're all winners here.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, sure, we're all winners. Just through the art of education, if

[Josh Dean]

you walk away learning something, you can't lose.

[Rory Scoville]

All right, see you all next week. Crimeless is a production of Smartless Media, Campside Media and Big Money Players in partnership with iHeart podcasts. It's hosted by Rory Scovel and me, Josh Dean. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. Emma Siminoff is our associate producer. This episode was written by Emma Siminoff and me, Josh Dean. We're sound designed and engineered by Blake Brook with support from Ewan lytram. Ewan. Mark McAdam composed our theme song. The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Sher and me, Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart podcasts and Big Money Players are Jack O', Brien, Lindsey Hoffman and Matt Apodaca. For Smartlist Media, the executive producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Richard Courson. Bernie Kaminski is head of production. The associate producer is Matty McCann. A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. Do you have a question, comment or confession for the Crimless team? Email [e-mail] and if you enjoyed Crimeless, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. It helps people find the show and also makes us feel validated. Unless you're mean, in which case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week. Crimeless Nation.

[Josh Dean]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rory Scoville]

Guaranteed Human.