How to fake your death and (almost get away with it)

Summary

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CrimeLess: How to Fake Your Death and (Almost) Get Away With It

Date: April 8, 2026
Hosts: Rory Scovel (comedian), Josh Dean (journalist)
Producer/Guest: Lane Rose

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the wild, absurd world of people who try to fake their own deaths to escape consequences—be they debts, relationships, or the law. Starting with a hypothetical brainstorm on how they would try it themselves, hosts Rory and Josh break down two real-life cases: the recent “Wisconsin Kayak Dad” and the infamous British “canoe man,” John Darwin. The duo revel in the extraordinary stupidity, audacity, and, sometimes, accidental genius of these attempted vanishing acts—all in the show’s trademark irreverent, comedic tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Allure (and Folly) of Faking Your Death

• Rory and Josh begin by asking: “How would you fake your death?” (03:13)
  • Rory: “This is where I'm not even smart enough to know the best way to do it, because I almost started giving you ways in which I would kill myself.” (03:22)
  • Josh corrects him: “That's the opposite of faking your death.” (03:35)
• They riff on classic schemes: disappearing while boating, leaving behind evidence to point to drowning, and even referencing The Dark Knight ending with Michael Caine in Italy. (03:37–04:22)

2. Is Faking Your Death Actually a Crime?

• The show explores whether faking death is itself illegal.
  • Josh: “Technically, I have the answer. It's not technically a crime... no one’s gonna... I mean, your wife might be upset.” (07:36)
• Motivation:
  • Most people fake deaths due to financial crimes or to escape other criminal trouble.
  • The hosts agree: “This is a very dramatic solution to a problem... if you owe millions, it could be your only solution.” (08:21)

3. Case Study: Ryan Borgwart, the ‘Wisconsin Kayak Dad’

The Disappearance

• Ryan, a father of three from Wisconsin, “went out one day to do an extremely basic weekend dad activity. He went kayaking, but he never came home.” (05:25)
• All signs pointed to accidental drowning: “His kayak capsized, life jacket floating, all his stuff left behind.” (11:28)
• Massive search launched: “58 days searching for his body,” with “no evidence of the body in the lake, on the land. He’s just gone.” (12:09–12:45)

The Twist

• Police eventually realize: “Ryan, apparently at the Canadian border, he used his own name and crossed the border the day after he went missing.” (13:22)
• Critique: “I feel like 54 days searching the lake when he had crossed the border the day after he disappeared.” (13:45)
• He prepped by: reporting his passport missing (then using his new one), clearing digital records, transferring money, buying life insurance, and prepping escape supplies. (15:42–17:22)

The Motive & Unraveling

• Ryan was in debt and “met a woman named Katya on a dating app...I just want to be with you so you can see how he was wooed.” (24:03–24:32)
• He executed a convoluted escape:
  • Throws phone overboard, uses kiddie raft, stashes an e-bike to ride 70 miles, buses to Canada, flies to Paris, then Georgia, then meets Katya. (25:04–26:20)
  • Notable quote: “I cannot even get toothpaste past TSA. This guy... you can’t bring over 5 oz, but you can pretend to be someone else.” (18:23)

How He Got Caught & Consequences

• Electronic breadcrumbs and suspicious life insurance activity give him away.
• Caught when Katya helps police with a “proof of life” video exchange. (26:26–27:16)
• Sentenced to 89 days in jail (matching the search days), and $30,000 restitution. (23:16)
• Marriage: “His wife filed for legal separation, calling the marriage irretrievably broken, which feels kind of like an understatement.” (27:26)

Host advice:
Josh: “You can always get divorced.” (24:09, 28:11)
Rory: “Just get divorced. It’s one of our T-shirts—JGD.” (28:27–28:32)

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4. Case Study: John Darwin, the “Canoe Man” (UK, 2002–2007)

The Plot

• John and wife Anne, in debt, devise a plan: John goes canoeing, “disappears” in the North Sea, is declared dead. (32:22–33:58)
• For five years, John lives as “Carl Fenwick”—in the same town, in one of their rental units. (35:00)
• “John has not gone anywhere... not just to his town, into one of those rental units that they can’t rent.” (35:00)

Living Undercover

• Plays EverQuest, walks around, and even interacts with old acquaintances: “Aren’t you supposed to be dead?” / “Don’t tell anyone.” (37:04)
• Secures a new passport under “John Jones,” travels internationally, buys property in Panama with Anne. (37:30–38:33)

The Downfall

• Blown by a real estate photo posted online.
• John returns to the UK and claims amnesia: “I think I’m a missing person,” but police are tipped that Anne was talking to her “dead” husband at work. (39:24)
• Both convicted of fraud—each receives 6+ years in prison. They later divorce. (40:59–41:27)
• Rory, reflecting: “If you can fake your own death and still live in the same town and all you did was change your name... you are either an incredible actor or you live in the dumbest town.” (41:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On DIY Witness Protection:
  Rory: “DIY witness protection is 100% a TV show we’re now pitching.” (07:25)

• After learning Ryan’s escape plan:
  Josh: “Around 1 or 2am, he finally makes it to his stashed electric bike. He pedals 70 miles to Madison, Wisconsin, and catches a Greyhound to Toronto...” (25:04)

• Highlighting the absurdity:
  Rory: “He doesn’t need his women to be real. And airline food is the best food he’s ever had.” (26:20)

• Summary lesson:
  Josh: “I feel like this is a lesson to you and our listeners, Rory. You can always get divorced.” (24:09)

• John Darwin’s bravado:
  “He returns to the UK, walks into a police station and claims he’s been suffering from amnesia.” (39:24)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Start of main discussion: 02:44 – Podcast proper begins
• How would you fake your own death? 03:13–04:22
• Introduction of fake death as a crime topic: 06:23–07:36
• Case 1: Ryan Borgwart (Kayak Dad): 05:25–28:24 (with updates and full story)
• Case 2: John Darwin (Canoe Man): 32:14–41:27
• Possum vs. Alien Quiz/Game: 46:02–49:50 (comic palate cleanser)
• Concluding banter: 49:56–50:20

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Possum vs. Alien Game (Comic Relief)

• Lane quizzes Rory & Josh on whether odd names refer to a possum species or an alleged alien type.
• Highlights the wildness of natural—and supernatural—taxonomy, and the hosts’ inability to distinguish between the two.
• Notable self-awareness: “I didn't even… I went along with it as though we've discovered numerous types of aliens.” (47:14–47:19)

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Episode’s Takeaway Message

• Faking your death is almost never a good idea—it’s rarely successful, deeply traumatic for family, and usually leaves a criminal trail.
• Both hosts drive home: “Just get divorced.”
• These stories are both cautionary and hilariously human, exposing the inherent messiness—and ingenuity—of people trying desperately to escape their lives.

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Memorable Sign-Offs

• Josh: “See you all next week. Unless I fake my death and fly off to Georgia.” (49:56)
• Rory: “Well, that's what we're going to do. That's our immediate first assumption. Even with a body, we assume it's not you.” (50:02)
• Josh, repeating the lesson: “Just get divorced. JGD.” (28:27–28:32)

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For listeners:

• The episode’s comedic, conversational tone keeps the subject light without losing sight of the human cost and sheer audacity of attempted “death-faking.”
• If you remember one lesson: Don’t try to vanish. Just deal with your problems—or at least, as the hosts suggest, “Just get divorced.”

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Transcript

[Josh Dean]

This is an I Heart podcast.

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[Josh Dean]

Do you think performing nude is why they called him the terrifying penis terrorist? Oh, did I. I'm sorry, did I mishear that?

[Rory Scovel]

You misheard it, yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Campsite media. All right, Rory, I have a question for you.

[Rory Scovel]

Go for it, Josh.

[Josh Dean]

How would you fake your death? If you were to want to fake

[Rory Scovel]

your death, I. Oh, man.

[Josh Dean]

So we.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay, so now we're living in a world where I need to fake my death. I don't. This is where I'm not even smart enough to know the best way to do it, because I almost started giving you ways in which I would kill myself.

[Josh Dean]

That's the opposite of faking your death.

[Rory Scovel]

Exactly. That's over commitment. That's the person who's too committed to faking their death. Okay, I would. I would say that I'm going boating, which anyone who knows me would be like, that was a. What? A curveball. He never did that. I would say. I would. I would leave some sort of evidence that I've gone boating alone, as I often do, and I would go out to sea, and I would. I'd honestly, I'd try to just do what Michael Caine and Christian Bale did in the Dark Knight. I would have Michael. I'd probably get Michael Caine to pick me up on a helicopter, and I'd go live in Italy.

[Josh Dean]

It's expensive and complicated, but it could work.

[Rory Scovel]

I feel like I gave you a possible scenario.

[Josh Dean]

Well, you're really gonna like this week's episode then, because you're kind of spot on with the story we're gonna talk about. So this week, we are discussing the phenomenon of people who try to fake their own death. That's after the break.

[Rory Scovel]

Just an asterisk. This episode has nothing to do with Michael Caine. For anyone who thought when Josh said, I'm pretty close, that part was not close.

[Josh Dean]

No, Michael Caine's actually been dead for decades. He faked it.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, but he came back as actor Michael Kane, and he was like, I just went with the same name.

[Josh Dean]

Welcome back to Crimeless, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals.

[Sponsor Announcer (Public)]

I'm Josh Dean.

[Rory Scovel]

And I am Rory Scovel.

[Josh Dean]

This week we look at the fascinating and often hilarious world of fake deaths. Death objectively not funny at all. With some exceptions, fake deaths often pretty hilarious. Really fun to talk about. Like the case we're going to unpack this week. When an otherwise extremely basic father of three from Wisconsin went out one day to do an extremely basic weekend dad activity. He went kayaking, but he never came home.

[Rory Scovel]

He went to get cigarettes on a kayak.

[Josh Dean]

Cops assumed this man was dead, that he drowned, had wandered off into the woods, or maybe was beamed up into a spaceship. I don't know. They basically got hung up on the idea that this Wisconsin dad was a goner. But spoiler alert, he was not. We recorded this episode a while ago while the case was still ongoing. So you'll hear our in the moment wild speculations. And thanks to our updates, you're also going to get the satisfaction of knowing how it all worked out in the end.

[Rory Scovel]

Closure.

[Josh Dean]

Exactly. Do you think faking your death is actually a crime? Because technically, we're supposed to be talking about crimes here.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, I. I mean, is the thinking that if you have faked your own death, it's because you are trying to not pay? Like, are people like. Well, because for tax purposes, you can't fake your own death. So I guess if I were to fake my own death, that's the closest I'll ever get to being a billionaire. We both get to avoid taxes or.

[Josh Dean]

I would think most people who fake their death are. Well, obviously, I was about to say most. I mean, they're all hiding from something, running from something. Right. I would assume in most cases it's a crime, but maybe not always. I don't know. Are there any other circumstances under which you might fake your death?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, if you've murdered someone or you're a criminal. If you're a criminal, you've got to fake your own death. Or you could be a victim and you need to fake your own death.

[Josh Dean]

Like witness protection. But DIY.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep. DIY witness protection is 100% a TV show we're now pitching.

[Josh Dean]

It's kind of grave, actually. Well, yeah. I mean, so technically, I have the answer. It's not technically a crime. You could fake your death tomorrow and that would be fine. No one's gonna. I mean, your wife might be upset, right?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

And your daughter, I think.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

They wouldn't be happy about it, but, yeah. Most people fake their own deaths. Don't do it just to disappear. I think in most cases they've committed a crime. Small or large. Probably large. And the Stories we found are often it's financial crimes. In most cases, at least the stories that we looked at, it was people who got themselves into a lot of trouble financially, couldn't pay back whatever they owed or had stolen money and were going to go to jail. So lots of. Okay. Yeah. So it feels like there's other ways out of it. This is a very dramatic solution to a problem, but I guess if you

[Rory Scovel]

owe millions of dollars, it could be the only solution.

[Josh Dean]

It might be the only solution, yeah. And the reason I was thinking about this was because I saw a story on the BBC about a guy named Ryan Borgwart who went missing in the summer of 2024 on a kayaking trip in Wisconsin.

[Rory Scovel]

So smart.

[Josh Dean]

So Ryan went with your answer. He decided I need to disappear, and

[Rory Scovel]

we're going to all of his friends. Ryan, you never kayak. What do you mean you're going kayaking this weekend? And why are you telling so many of us?

[Josh Dean]

Posting it on his socials. Just going kayaking, guys.

[Rory Scovel]

You guys know me. Kayak. Kayak time.

[Josh Dean]

So he was 45, married, father of three. So this is. I mean, I guess we're laughing. That's the sad part. I mean, I'm sure his wife and kids were not thrilled when this. Well, first of all, not thrilled when he went kayaking and didn't come home. But he texted his wife saying he was on the kayak, he was about to call it a day, he was about to come back to shore, and he would see her soon, and then he never came home.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, man. So I don't want to jump too far ahead in questions, but what time frame are we looking at from him deciding to fake his own death to getting caught? And I'm only asking because I want to know what sort of emotional roller coaster timeframe the family had to go through.

[Josh Dean]

I'm gonna unspool this for you as it happened. So Ryan calls his wife coming back. Great day out on the. On the yak, as Ryan likes to call it.

[Rory Scovel]

As Ryan would say.

[Josh Dean]

I'm on my way back to shore, honey. I'll see you soon. Ryan doesn't come home. So then she obviously calls the authorities. As. As one did. I mean, do you think your wife. How long would it take your wife to call the cops if you didn't come home?

[Rory Scovel]

I am so good at responding to texts and phone calls because I'm a bit of a lunatic that she would probably do it pretty quickly after enough calls and texts of me not responding. Definitely when I said I was going to Be home. And now something like four or five hours has gone by with zero response. She is for sure reached out to all her friends to ask, should I call the authorities? And they have all been like, yes,

[Josh Dean]

because you would never.

[Rory Scovel]

Just like my wife, knowing who I am. She's probably. What if he's doing a bit. I'm so. I gotta say, the. Faking your own death in this instance, it's like, all I can think about is, where did he leave his car? Are you just. Are you ready to say goodbye if you pull it off? Are you ready to say goodbye to everything, not just people, but possessions, your car? I gotta say, it feels like Ryan is on a little bit, like, of a retreat. You know those retreats where you're not allowed to talk for, like, two weeks? What if that's what Ryan's doing? Where were you? I told you I was going to that retreat where we're not. We have to pretend that we're dead. You don't remember that?

[Josh Dean]

Oh, we're so bad at Google, Cal. We did. I didn't put that in. I forgot.

[Rory Scovel]

I forgot to put it in the cow. I'm sorry, babe.

[Josh Dean]

Well, so authorities go to the lake, and they find his. His kayak capsized, and his life jacket is floating in the water. So I'm not sure why Ryan wasn't wearing life jacket, how it. How he. How it came off of him. But they search the lake, they find his car, trailer, fishing rod, and wallet are all in the parking lot. So he's left everything behind. As you would when you go kayaking, you know, he doesn't. And nothing suspicious at the scene. They then spent 58 days searching for his body using drones, sonar, cadaver dogs. They found no evidence of the body in the lake, on the land. He's just gone.

[Rory Scovel]

No evidence of foul play either.

[Josh Dean]

Nope. And I assume if I'm, you know, putting myself in Ryan's shoes, like, his, like, slipper lake shoes, if I'm putting myself in his little aqua socks, I think he's assuming, of course, they're gonna think I drown, right? Like, my life. I wasn't wearing my life jacket, and I fell out of the kayak for some reason, and therefore I drown. But where. I think the first flaw in this plan is, is that Ryan, like, I don't know how big the lake is that he drowned in, but, like, there's a finite amount of floor on a lake. I feel like at some point they're gonna realize Ryan's not in the lake.

[Rory Scovel]

It's very yeah, it's. They could skim the bottom of the lake pretty efficiently. I would assume so.

[Josh Dean]

Ocean feels like if you're gonna do this next time, you should do the ocean. Right.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Ryan tries this again, he gets caught and tries again. Like, Ryan, just move. Just divorce your family and move somewhere. Quit doing this to people.

[Josh Dean]

I was telling these guys yesterday, every time I see one of those stories where it's like, guy hires hitman to kill his wife because he's got a new girlfriend, I'm like, there's also divorce. Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

There's also a much easier way to do this. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

All right. So Ryan's missing. No sign of his body. But then they learn something. Ryan, apparently at the Canadian border, he used his own name and crossed the border the day after he went missing. Yep. So I'm not. I don't want to cast any judgment on this police department because I don't want. These are probably hardworking officers.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

But I feel like 54 days searching the lake when he had crossed the border the day after he disappeared.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. I don't. I have a lot of questions there. Where, like, I know you're not giving it away, but I'm like, is it right at the border? Is it how he. They found his car? He had some version of an escape plan to get to the border, to cross the border. I. Yeah. I don't know. I wanted to give Ryan the benefit of the doubt and say maybe alien abduction and he's up there in space somewhere and who knows what they're doing to him.

[Josh Dean]

Also, like the Canadian border police, they're like, sir, you're on foot and you're all wet.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Anyways, come on in.

[Josh Dean]

Welcome to Canada.

[Rory Scovel]

Do you like stirrup?

[Josh Dean]

I don't know why the police did not like check the border. I mean, this is in. We're talking about Wisconsin, right? Have I already forgotten what state we're in?

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, yeah. Okay. So there you go. They're probably right right there.

[Josh Dean]

I know. But nope. Those hard working Wisconsin, I mean, you know, God bless them. They were searching that lake until there was no inch to be searched. And nobody checked the border. I can imagine like that. The staff meeting at the police station the next day, they're like, did anybody check the border?

[Rory Scovel]

Tim, you're not going to believe this. I just found out the day after he crossed the border. We didn't have to do that lake search. That blew the budget in this town. They actually don't have the money to look for any more bodies. The rest of the Year.

[Josh Dean]

Good place to fake your death. So it turns out that he had reported his passport missing and requested a new one prior to his disappearance. His wife said his original passport was easily found, meaning he was traveling on the new one, but he didn't change his name. Okay, so what happens next? I think this also happens in those killing your spouse stories every time, which is that they get the laptop, they look at the search history, and it's like, how to kill your wife and get away with it.

[Rory Scovel]

I got to say, every time that comes up in a case and I'm not a murderer, I'm not criminal in any capacity. Maybe the worst thing I've done is parking tickets. You still wouldn't be able to go to my search history and see how to evade parking tickets. You wouldn't even. I would have deleted that. I know I can't. But the amount of people that look up suspicious stuff and then just leave it. Leave it there under the assumption no one's going to ever look into this.

[Josh Dean]

So to the extent that this podcast is a public service to criminals, which obviously, that was the main. The main reason we started.

[Rory Scovel]

We're trying to help.

[Josh Dean]

I would like to pause here and say, people, change the password on your laptop because, like, if you make it really hard, the cops aren't going to get it. I mean, if you feel compelled to search. Yes. How to disappear or fake your death and get away with it, erase it. First of all, yes. Second of all, put a nice good password on there really hard. Lots of exclamation points and numbers.

[Rory Scovel]

Also, if you need to Google how to disappear and stay gone, maybe it's not for you. I feel like that just needs to be some sort of internal, natural instinct that you understand probably how to get away with it, but if you gotta Google it, it might not be for you.

[Josh Dean]

Also, he had taken out a large life insurance policy in the recent past. He had transferred funds to a foreign bank account and had gotten a new email address. On top of that, he replaced his hard drive. Oh, and he did clear his search history, so. So, okay, we were. We were a little overly critical. However, he did not cover his tracks enough to disguise the fact that he signed up for a large life insurance policy and transferred funds into a foreign bank account shortly before going kayaking.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. God, I wonder what life Ryan is living right now.

[Josh Dean]

You know, to tell you, in fact, where. I think. Because further digital evidence shows that Ryan was planning to travel to Europe and not, well, far Eastern Europe, because he apparently was on his way to meet up with a woman in Uzbekistan. Okay, now, first, do you know where's Uzbekistan?

[Rory Scovel]

That is. It's going to be. It's not in Wisconsin. I know that much. I know.

[Josh Dean]

Okay. Are you going right?

[Rory Scovel]

I also know it's not just right over the Canadian border. So what is thinking, flight wise, this guy's going to get a flight with his passport and name and that he thinks he's not going to get discovered?

[Josh Dean]

Evidence suggests. And Idaho, we don't know. I'm sure the investigation is ongoing. Yeah, but suggests that Ryan left his wife and three children, faked his death in a kayak, cross the border into Canada to fly to Uzbekistan for a woman.

[Rory Scovel]

I cannot even get toothpaste past TSA. This guy. Look, you can't bring over 5 ounces, but you can pretend to be someone else.

[Josh Dean]

Does this start with one of those text messages you get, which is like, how are you doing, my sweetheart? Like, how does Ryan end up falling for a woman in Uzbekistan?

[Rory Scovel]

This is the most extreme version of 90 Day Fiance I've ever heard of. I've never seen them play at this level before.

[Josh Dean]

As we are recording this, the mystery is still a mystery. We don't know exactly where Ryan is and why. We suspect he is in Uzbekistan with a woman. A video was spotted on TikTok, I think, just this week. Right, Lane?

[Lane Rose]

Yeah, the news of it just broke. It was filmed back in June. I have it pulled up if you want me to share it.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, let's see it. So this video in this video on TikTok. So June was two months before he disappears. All right, let's watch it. We're going to watch the video.

[Rory Scovel]

Do I go to Uzbekistan or stay here?

[Lane Rose]

Do you have family there? No. Why do you want to go meet a woman? To meet a woman. You don't like American women?

[Rory Scovel]

No. No.

[Josh Dean]

Another familiar.

[Lane Rose]

So you've given up on meeting someone here?

[Josh Dean]

No, I'm married. Oh. Yeah.

[Lane Rose]

But you. You want to find someone else?

[Rory Scovel]

Empty nest.

[Josh Dean]

I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking you.

[Sponsor Announcer (Bethenny Frankel)]

Wait.

[Lane Rose]

Empty nest?

[Josh Dean]

What do you mean, empty nest? My kids are.

[Rory Scovel]

Can we pause it, Lane? Who. Who here is more annoying? Her questions or his answers? I can't.

[Josh Dean]

Oh, my.

[Rory Scovel]

Like, she can't even grasp the fact. Stopped to ask for free advice. I don't know that anyone's ever stopped. Okay, hold on. Where are you going? Okay, wait. What's happening?

[Josh Dean]

Whoa. So, okay, dilated Ryan purchase a large life insurance policy before faking his own death. He apparently somehow ran into someone who Asked him what he wanted to do, and he said he wanted to move to Uzbekistan to be with a woman. He announced his plan.

[Rory Scovel]

I feel like he is saying everything just short of, I recently faked my own death. Like, it just seems like he's about to just blurt that out. Well, this is.

[Josh Dean]

No, this is two months before. This is when he's clearly, he's riding his bike thinking about, am I going to do it or not.

[Rory Scovel]

I think, oh, that's when this came out. Oh, my God. I thought he was so dumb that he's doing this after. Oh, no, no, this is. Faked his own death.

[Lane Rose]

So we can't confirm that this is actually him. They haven't confirmed that yet, but, like, that looks pretty convincing to me.

[Rory Scovel]

It's him. It's him. That is him. That is so him. I gotta say, I didn't know the kids were out of the house. That does make me feel a little bit better. Yeah, I agree that they are at least adults who have just. They're. They're doing their own thing.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, still an asshole no matter what.

[Rory Scovel]

But. But here's the other thing. It's like, just divorce your wife.

[Josh Dean]

I know.

[Rory Scovel]

Tell your kids, hey, guys, you're all adults. You know how these things go now. They're all like, our dad faked his. They have to live with that. They're like, wow, what a crazy choice.

[Josh Dean]

He could have just told the truth. He faked his death and made us all sad in order to be with a woman in Uzbekistan because, well, there's so many questions that we don't know the answer to. We may have to revisit this. I'm like, was this one of those catfishing schemes? Was it even a woman? Did he get to Uzbekistan and he was, like, drafted into slavery and he now works in, like, a call center.

[Rory Scovel]

Could you imagine? He got to Uzbekistan and he was catfished. And he's like, you have no idea what I went through to get here. And the first thing he says was, it was a 20 hour flight. That's his first complaint in coach. I was in coach. You know what they charge for first class? 20 hours, no meals.

[Josh Dean]

We definitely have to revisit this because I need. Yeah, like, was there a woman? Like, he showed up and it was like he was thrown in the back of a van. And, you know, he's now an indentured servant. I mean.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, no, you're right. We are going to need closure of this. We're going to have to know Ryan's fate.

[Josh Dean]

I have Some updates. Okay, where we last left off, we speculated that maybe Ryan was catfished by someone who kidnapped or killed him. But since we recorded, Ryan was found, returned to Wisconsin and sentenced to serve 89 days in prison, which was the same length of time authorities spent searching for him, including the 58 days they searched the lake.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, I guess that's fair.

[Josh Dean]

He's charged with obstruction and ordered by the Greenlake County Circuit Court judge to pay $30,000 in restitution for costs spent by search and rescue crews. I feel like that's a good deal. 58 days of search and rescue seems like would cost more than 30 grand. Yeah, but Wisconsin? I don't know. Maybe it's cheaper there.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

There is an excellent in depth Atlantic magazine piece on the saga to find Ryan. I highly recommend it for your next airplane trip. But here's the gist of what happened. Ryan and his wife had been together for 20 plus years, and for the most part, their relationship was okay. Or at least that's what Emily, his wife, thought. Turns out Ryan was unhappy and also tens of thousand dollars in debt. Something his wife did not know. Yep, but instead of coming clean and asking for a divorce, he took the easy way out by elaborately faking his own death.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, I mean, we're describing it as the easy way out.

[Josh Dean]

I don't know.

[Rory Scovel]

I don't know if that's exact.

[Josh Dean]

I feel like this is a lesson to you and our listeners, Rory. You can always get divorced.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, you can just get divorced.

[Josh Dean]

Here's what happened. He met a woman named Katya on a dating app. A few months before the kayak trip, they started exchanging messages. I'm going to read a couple of those to good luck. I kiss you very hard. Another one said, I just want to be with you so you can see how he was wooed. Yeah, nothing more romantic than I kiss you very hard.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, that's. That gets me every time.

[Josh Dean]

And then Ryan wrote back, katya, I promise to you I will love you for the rest of my life. I want no one else. I want to share a life with only you. A woman I met on the Internet and have never.

[Rory Scovel]

This is my age, I don't even know is real.

[Josh Dean]

So Ryan wants to start a new life with Katya. Oh, man, the details so much that he reversed his vasectomy. And Emily, not realizing her husband was a total scumbag, drove him to the appointment.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Josh Dean]

Oh, boy.

[Rory Scovel]

Man, I respect that. That's a hard reversal to get. He was clearly in love with this. Maybe Person who he had never actually

[Josh Dean]

seen in the flesh. So he orders an electric bike and two bike batteries for a thousand bucks on Amazon, then deletes the account. The morning of his disappearance, he stashes the bike in two go bags and some grass among the trees. After church, he kisses his wife and kids and heads to the lake with his kayak. Once safely out on the water, he throws his phone overboard. Inflated a second raft, one of those child sized inflatables you buy at Walmart. You know, sort of like dinky. He flips his kayak over, uses the kitty raft to paddle to shore. Around 1 or 2am he finally makes it to his stashed electric bike. He pedals 70 miles to Madison, Wisconsin and catches a Greyhound to Toronto. At the Canadian border, agents are suspicious because he has no driver's license and his phone isn't working, but they let him through anyway. Canadians simply too nice to stop the bad guys.

[Rory Scovel]

You let him go.

[Josh Dean]

Sorry.

[Rory Scovel]

Sorry we even suspected anything.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, I would think. How would they let you cross the border without a driver's license? This is crazy. What did Ryan think was like, I feel like that was one place where he probably, almost certainly should have been caught.

[Rory Scovel]

And what did he think the 100% should have been caught.

[Josh Dean]

So with a prepaid debit card and 5,500 in cash, he catches a flight to Paris. According to the Atlantic article, the Air France meal was one of the best meals of his life.

[Rory Scovel]

All right, there you go.

[Josh Dean]

He takes another flight.

[Rory Scovel]

This guy's, he's a simple guy. He doesn't need his women to be real. And airline food is the best food he's ever had.

[Josh Dean]

He takes a flight from Paris to Georgia, the country. And that's where he finally meets Katya. Yep, Katya is how they eventually track him down. However, the cops send an email to her with a subject line, call us. Attached with a photo of Ryan, Katya and his two children, as well as a photo of the officer's badges saying, this is the police in Wisconsin, usa. Yeah, she's a little sus about these emails, but eventually she convinces Ryan to send a proof of life video back to Wisconsin. The cops then begin an email exchange with him and persuade him to come home and face the music. And in part, he does this because obstruction of justice, the charge is only a misdemeanor and they can't arrest him on the spot. When he lands in Chicago for that reason, they are able to get him in an interview room where he brags about how he fooled Everyone. He confesses to all of it. Then he's arrested and put in handcuffs. He spends the night in jail and post bail. The same week he's arrested Emily, files for legal separation, calling the marriage irretrievably broken, which feels kind of like an understatement.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

I don't even think she needed a reason.

[Rory Scovel]

It's like it's.

[Josh Dean]

We get it, man. It's okay.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Dean]

No explanation needed. She also asked for sole custody of the kids, which, considering he faked his death and left them anyway.

[Rory Scovel]

Also, they were adults. Right. I think I remember.

[Josh Dean]

They were.

[Rory Scovel]

They were.

[Josh Dean]

They weren't. They were teens.

[Rory Scovel]

It's better than them being like three and four.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, no, they were teens. But I think also a reasonable ask. I feel like the judge is not going to say, like, sorry, I think

[Rory Scovel]

he's a good dad.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. Thank you.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, you mean the guy who tried to never see them again on his own. Okay.

[Josh Dean]

And not just that, but, like, convince them that their father had died in a tragic kayaking accident.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes.

[Josh Dean]

After church.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Trauma. Oh.

[Josh Dean]

So that's the mystery, which we didn't know when we first recorded is now solved. Closing thoughts.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, it all feels very on brand. It all feels super on brand for old. Right, right, right.

[Josh Dean]

I think in closing, people just get divorced.

[Sponsor Announcer (Public)]

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[Josh Dean]

I know it's hard. It's painful.

[Rory Scovel]

JG JGD. It's one of our T shirts we sell on crimeless.com. jGD.

[Josh Dean]

Just get divorced. Just get divorced. After the break, one more story of a man who faked his death and almost got away with it.

[Sponsor Announcer (Inner Balance)]

If you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance. The first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop 10 seconds a day. Oestra replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again. That's innerbalance.com support for the show comes

[Sponsor Announcer (Public)]

from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI, it all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Sponsor Announcer (Redfin)]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it? That's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise and Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning.

[Sponsor Announcer (Bethenny Frankel)]

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[Josh Dean]

Slightly more successful Fake death on water is the story of the the canoe man. Have you heard this one? It's kind of famous.

[Rory Scovel]

No, no, no.

[Josh Dean]

Okay, so this one's back in the early 2000s, a guy named John Darwin. He's a 51 year old British guy married to a lady named Anne. He's a former prison officer and teacher. She's a receptionist. The two of them owned some properties where they would rent out rooms for like side hustle. Thing is, they got in a lot of debt because they didn't have a lot of renters. So they bought too many properties they couldn't rent, got in a lot of debt and decided to fake John's death.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Josh Dean]

So this is a tag team plot. So Anne's in on it in this case.

[Rory Scovel]

I love that. I love a good team effort. Also, side note, I went as canoe man two Halloweens ago.

[Josh Dean]

So in March of 2002, he gets in his canoe and he goes out into the North Sea. So, all right already, we're in the ocean.

[Rory Scovel]

I like that. I like that. The third story you tell is going to be actually a boat. You're going to be like, look, we had kayak, but we're just backing it up.

[Josh Dean]

We're just getting bigger. And the body of water too. So we're in the North Sea. Now, I don't know the difference between a sea and an ocean, but it's big.

[Rory Scovel]

The spelling for sure. The spelling.

[Josh Dean]

Definitely the spelling. So he goes out in a canoe and he doesn't come home. And he's reported missing by Ann, who claims that he was caught in a strong tide and must have disappeared. His canoe is found capsized and there's no sign of John. But the day he went missing, the North Sea was unusually calm. And I don't know if you ever tried to capsize a canoe by yourself. I don't think he picked the right boat in this case. He should have been in a kayak.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. I also. Does it need to be capsized to believe that something has happened?

[Josh Dean]

Isn't the other possibility is that you just fell out.

[Rory Scovel]

If there's an empty canoe and the person you thought was using it is no longer using it, there's no part of me that's going to go, well, wait, hold on. It's not capsized. They're probably fine.

[Josh Dean]

So for five years. So basically, police search for him, they don't find him. He's. They declare him dead. And for five years, John is dead. Yeah, in the eyes of the British government. But here's the twist. John is not dead. Not only is John not dead. Well, actually, let me pause for a minute.

[Rory Scovel]

He's in Uzbekistan.

[Josh Dean]

Anything could be your answer. But do you have a theory on what John did?

[Rory Scovel]

Well, here's. Here's what I'm. Here's what's leading me to say my answer with the path I took to get to this, because Ann is in on it. They're not trying to separate, so they're still trying to stay together. My theory is that John has not gone anywhere.

[Josh Dean]

Man, you're good at this.

[Rory Scovel]

John is still. He's within proximity of Ann. And their misstep was that they should have been like, all right, hey, just remember, for five years, we got a not talk.

[Josh Dean]

Well, you're very good at this. So not only did you pick the proper way of thinking, your death right at the top, you nailed it. So John doesn't go anywhere. John moves back to his town, and not just to his town, into one of those rental units that they can't rent. So for five years, he moves into one of the rental properties under a new name calling himself Carl Fenwick, who is a lodger who just decided to stick around and become a handyman. It's like the start of a porn.

[Rory Scovel]

So it's. It's that or it's like, hey, let's pretend we're in New Heart.

[Josh Dean]

Very timely reference.

[Rory Scovel]

That is. That's insane. He. He lit. People in the town are like, no, I mean, you're.

[Josh Dean]

You're John.

[Rory Scovel]

What do you mean? What are you saying, Carl?

[Josh Dean]

You're John.

[Rory Scovel]

No, no, no, I'm. I promise. I'm Carl. Just here to get a coffee.

[Josh Dean]

Who's John? Why do you keep calling me John?

[Rory Scovel]

And he's living it up in town. They're all like, you're not.

[Josh Dean]

Well, here's what he did. He. He has a lot of free time now. He doesn't have a job anymore.

[Rory Scovel]

He's dead.

[Josh Dean]

He's living in a rental unit. He spends his days playing the video game EverQuest. Okay, I don't know. Whatever. Do you know what it is?

[Rory Scovel]

I've never heard of that, but, man, that does sound like the most generic video game title possible.

[Josh Dean]

Also kind of the worst way to spend your life. I mean, if you faked your death, you fooled the entire nation of England. Yeah, and you play video games in a rental property that you own.

[Rory Scovel]

You know, no one told John he could just do that alive he could do that. This makes Ryan's plan look so much smarter. Ryan distanced himself. He went to another country via another country. John's just like, I just can't pay the bills.

[Josh Dean]

So he spends his days playing EverQuest and walking around town. And what you said, like, what are people saying to him? In fact, there's at least one example of someone. He ran into one of his tenants who was like, aren't you supposed to be dead? To which he replies, don't tell anyone. Smart tenant, apparently doesn't tell anyone. I kind of want to meet this guy. Like, what a weird thing to experience. Then be like, okay, sure, I won't tell anybody. Your secret's safe with me.

[Rory Scovel]

Got it, Karl. Wink, wink.

[Josh Dean]

Carl. With a K, by the way. Anyway, so back to. There is a bit more of a plan here. So he gets a new passport under his new name. Okay. Yet another. No, a different new name, though. His passport. His name on his passport is John Jones.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Okay. So what we're learning is that it is not hard to get a passport. I thought it was so hard. You had to go to CVS. You had to get a picture taken.

[Josh Dean]

Okay. Mr. Jon Jones.

[Rory Scovel]

Hi, I'm John. John. They're like, I'm sorry, did you say Jon Jones? Yes. Yes, I did.

[Josh Dean]

But he uses his home address on the passport with Jon Jones. So he and his wife start traveling. They go to Cyprus to look at properties, then they go to Panama to look at properties and start actually buying properties in Panama. Oh, wow. And on one of those trips, the real estate agent takes a picture of these happy buyers and posted on the Internet. Yeah, this is. This is the Chekhov's gun moment, you know, that might come back to haunt him.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, but this is. So this is at a time when, to be fair, in their argument, in that, you know, in their defense, we don't live in today's world where you would immediately go, no, that'll go on the Internet. Someone will see it. This is to that. This is the early 2000s, where that culture is not, hey, if you just took a picture, you're probably going to post that and everyone will see it. You're still not thinking like that, correct?

[Josh Dean]

I would think not.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Okay.

[Josh Dean]

Innocent. More innocent times.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So in their defense, not that it's smart, not that they've made any good decisions here, but just to be clear, they took that photo thinking, who's ever going to see this?

[Josh Dean]

Well, and not only that, apparently, during the time that they're gone, Panama Titans whatever visa laws it had at the time, which enabled him to get in. And he realizes if he's ever going to go back to England, they're going to catch on.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

But anyway, so he's basically screwed. He returns to the uk, walks straight into a police station and claims that he's been suffering from amnesia.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Josh Dean]

I think I'm a missing person. He says, okay. Not a terrible plan. Right.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean it. I mean, I don't know what your options are, so this could be a good one.

[Josh Dean]

Well, his wife supports the story. She puts on a great performance. She's so thrilled that her husband, he's been missing for five years. Oh, my God, he's back. But the cops don't buy it. I guess she didn't do a great job acting.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh.

[Josh Dean]

Ann already suspected that he may not be dead because they looked at Anne's behavior over the time when she was supposed to be grieving. She was taking vacations, she moved a bunch of money around internationally. So another bank account, another. Another person who. Suspicious financial behavior.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

And was planning to sell the home. They'd been working on a case for three months by that point. And a tip from one of Ann's colleagues was what sparked the investigation. Said that Ann had a habit of talking to her dead husband on the phone at work. So Anne gave it away by talking to her dead husband every day.

[Rory Scovel]

I gotta say, I feel like I could pull off faking my own death. I feel inspired by these stories, these two stories. I feel inspired by these two stories, like, maybe I could pull this off and start living a new life. But then I screw up. I'm still doing this podcast. They're like, you're clearly alive. New episodes are coming out.

[Josh Dean]

My name is Carl.

[Rory Scovel]

No, no, I'm Corey with a K.

[Josh Dean]

So both Ann and John are charged and convicted of fraud. He does, I think, six years and three months. I don't know how much time Ann does. And, oh, she also got six years. Wait, she got six years and six months. Ann, the sad kicker to this, I mean, can you predict, like, there's. There's one sad final beat in this story.

[Rory Scovel]

I am going to guess one of them passed away in prison.

[Josh Dean]

Not quite that sad. They got divorced.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, they got divorced. Could you imagine all that? Just having to cover your tracks every time you go to the grocery store. Oh, no, I actually. I need two sandwiches. John. I mean, Carl. I mean, I'm a widow.

[Josh Dean]

So two cases of unsuccessful. Although, you know, John got away with it for five years. So we should be giving John a little credit.

[Rory Scovel]

I got to say, I give John credit. I also feel like if you can fake your own death and still live in the same town and all you did was change your name, you are either an incredible actor or you live in the dumbest town. And that's why the cops believe the amnesia thing. They're like everyone in town must have this is amnesia. That's the name of the town.

[Josh Dean]

I could swear I saw John at the store. No, that's Carl.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, it's clearly Carl. That's obviously Carl.

[Josh Dean]

Next up, Rory and I capsize a canoe or we play a game or something.

[Sponsor Announcer (Inner Balance)]

If you're feeling off fatigue, mood changes, skin shifts, yet your labs say everything's normal. You're not alone. Meet Oestra from Inner Balance, the first all in one prescription strength bioidentical hormone cream that's natural and effective and only takes one drop, 10 seconds a day. Oester replaces five to six products women typically use to treat symptoms and is third party tested to ensure the highest quality. Visit innerbalance.com today to start feeling like yourself again.

[Sponsor Announcer (Public)]

That's innerbalance.com support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S P500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures let's talk about modern home shopping.

[Sponsor Announcer (Redfin)]

It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right? Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in. All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script with listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app. You can see your dream home the moment it appears. Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2200 agents with local expertise. And Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win. Not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning.

[Sponsor Announcer (Bethenny Frankel)]

That's redfin.com this is Bethany Frankel from Just be with Bethenny Frankel. Most dog food is marketing, not nutrition. That is why Biggie and Smalls eat just food for dogs. Real 100% human grade food with ingredients I actually recognize. And yes, I do see the difference. Better digestion, healthier skin, more energy. Dogs that feel better. My babies. If you've been on the fence about switching, stop overthinking it. What's more important than your furry babies and their health? Go to justfood4dogs.com right now and get 50% off your first box. No code needed. Just try it.

[Josh Dean]

This is Climless Lane. What's on the agenda for our last segment?

[Rory Scovel]

Lane's game.

[Lane Rose]

All right, so the true masters of faking their deaths are possums. So that's what today's quiz is about. Did you know the opossum is the largest order of marsupials in the western hemisphere?

[Rory Scovel]

I did not know that.

[Lane Rose]

126 species. But we only have the Virginia possum, opossum here in the U.S. canada.

[Josh Dean]

Wait, is it possum or opossum?

[Rory Scovel]

It's opossum.

[Josh Dean]

Okay.

[Rory Scovel]

It's opossum, which is insane.

[Josh Dean]

It is insane.

[Lane Rose]

I'll be saying possum just for the record. So today's game I'm calling opossum O Alien because I'm going to give you a species of creature and you need to tell me if it's opossum or an alien species. Do you guys feel confident about this?

[Josh Dean]

I mean.

[Rory Scovel]

No, not at all. No, not at all.

[Lane Rose]

Okay. It's kind of. Kind of a rapid fire one. All right, how about a gray, slender possum?

[Rory Scovel]

Opossum.

[Josh Dean]

Opossum.

[Lane Rose]

Opossum. Possum.

[Josh Dean]

Tall, white, my favorite coffee.

[Rory Scovel]

Alien. I'm gonna go alien.

[Josh Dean]

Possum.

[Lane Rose]

It's alien. How about a grabby?

[Rory Scovel]

Oh God. Opossum.

[Josh Dean]

Opossum.

[Lane Rose]

Alien.

[Rory Scovel]

By the way.

[Josh Dean]

Alien. What are we talking. What is the. What is the source of the alien

[Lane Rose]

types research that I actually.

[Rory Scovel]

Great question. I didn't even. I went along with it as though we've discover numerous types of aliens.

[Lane Rose]

It's a. It's a couple Wikipedia articles, some. Some Reddit posts. A grabby is a class of aliens that expand rapidly and inhibit other civilizations development.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay, thank God. I was afraid you weren't applying science to this research, but as soon as you said Reddit and Wikipedia, I would

[Josh Dean]

just like to point out we would have gotten all the way through the game without Rory wondering.

[Rory Scovel]

Like, honestly, probably not until like later this afternoon. I would have been like, wait, how

[Josh Dean]

do we even now. What. What are those aliens?

[Rory Scovel]

What was the reference point for any of that?

[Josh Dean]

Okay, sorry. Sorry to interrupt. I felt like I need clarify.

[Lane Rose]

Gray. Four eyed.

[Josh Dean]

Got to be an alien.

[Rory Scovel]

It can't be an opossum. It's got to be an alien.

[Lane Rose]

It's a possum.

[Rory Scovel]

It can't be. No. Opossums wear glasses.

[Lane Rose]

They have. They have little spots up here that look like eyes. That's what I called four eyes.

[Rory Scovel]

I just like that they're bullied the same way we are. Exactly.

[Josh Dean]

Nerd.

[Lane Rose]

How about a yapok?

[Josh Dean]

Alien. Alien.

[Lane Rose]

Possum. Sorry, Water possum. How about a big latrine?

[Rory Scovel]

Possum.

[Josh Dean]

Alien.

[Lane Rose]

It's a possum.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh man.

[Lane Rose]

How about a. A new naki.

[Rory Scovel]

Alien.

[Josh Dean]

That's from Avatar.

[Lane Rose]

That's an alien.

[Rory Scovel]

That's it.

[Lane Rose]

That's not. It's not from Avatar. But it's from research.

[Rory Scovel]

It's from research.

[Josh Dean]

A navi.

[Lane Rose]

How about a flying rod?

[Josh Dean]

You know, a possum?

[Rory Scovel]

I feel like it's a trick one.

[Josh Dean]

It's like the nickname for one specific possum. Flying rock.

[Rory Scovel]

It's an alien.

[Josh Dean]

Okay.

[Rory Scovel]

It is an alien. It wasn't a trick at all.

[Lane Rose]

It's a mysterious form of life often captured on film, but not seen to the naked eye. And then finally, a wood sprite. Graciel.

[Rory Scovel]

That's going to be an opossum.

[Josh Dean]

That's got to be opossum.

[Lane Rose]

It's opossum.

[Josh Dean]

Yes. It sounds like a very cute one. Is it cute?

[Lane Rose]

Yeah, he's very cute. A lot of these are really cute.

[Rory Scovel]

Wood sprite. That's just the name. Sprite gets in there, makes you thirsty and it makes you want to cuddle.

[Josh Dean]

In a future episode, we need to explore why it's opossum. But we all say possum. Why do we just ignore the O?

[Lane Rose]

I don't know. That's not in my research.

[Rory Scovel]

They should drop it.

[Josh Dean]

They really should drop it. That becomes our platform.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, we are always felt that way.

[Josh Dean]

Just get divorced and drop the O. Jgd. Drop the O down under. It's just possum. So you just call.

[Rory Scovel]

See, they get it.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, you guys got your so much.

[Rory Scovel]

They get it. They've got other things to do. They can't be adding letters that aren't even pronounced.

[Lane Rose]

I don't know why the first. The first, like Google Scrape does not explain why there's an O in there.

[Rory Scovel]

Love that Google Scrape.

[Josh Dean]

This is a mystery for a episode of Crimeless.

[Rory Scovel]

All right.

[Josh Dean]

We don't just randomly put O in

[Rory Scovel]

front of Google Scrape. Google Scrape is the other T shirt.

[Josh Dean]

Oh, boy. It's the end of the opossum game.

[Lane Rose]

Oh, boy. Alien. Opossum. O Alien.

[Josh Dean]

See you all next week. Unless I fake my death and fly off to Georgia.

[Rory Scovel]

Well, that's what we're going to do. That's our immediate first assumption. Even with a body, we assume it's not you.

[Josh Dean]

Bye.

[Rory Scovel]

Bye, bye.

[Josh Dean]

Crimeless is a production of Smartless Media, Campside Media and big Money players in partnership with iHeart podcasts. It's hosted by Rory Scoville and me, Josh Dean. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. Emma Siminoff is our associate producer. This episode was written by Lane Rose and me, Josh Dean. We're sound, designed and engineered by Blake Rook with support from Ewan lytram. Ewan. Mark McAdam composed our theme song. The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadas, Matt Scher and me, Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart podcasts and Big Money Players are Jack O', Brien, Lindsey Hoffman and Matt Apodaca. For Smartlos Media, the executive producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Richard Corson. Bernie Kaminski is head of production. The associate producer is Mattie McCant. A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. Do you have a question, comment or confession for the Crimless team? Email [e-mail] and if you enjoyed Crimeless, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. It helps people find the show and also makes us feel validated. Unless you're mean, in which case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week. Crimeless Nation.

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[Lane Rose]

So good.

[Rory Scovel]

Your bill ladies.

[Josh Dean]

I got it.

[Lane Rose]

No, I got it.

[Sponsor Announcer (Bethenny Frankel)]

Seriously.

[Rory Scovel]

I insist.

[Josh Dean]

I insist first.

[Sponsor Announcer (Wells Fargo/Cantu)]

Don't be silly. You don't be silly.

[Rory Scovel]

People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay.

[Sponsor Announcer (Wells Fargo/Cantu)]

Rock, paper, scissors for it.

[Sponsor Announcer (Bethenny Frankel)]

Rock, paper, scissors, shoot.

[Rory Scovel]

No. The Wells Fargo Active Cash credit card. Visit Wells Fargo.com ActiveCash Terms apply.

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[Josh Dean]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.