Mascots Behaving Badly

Summary

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CrimeLess — Episode Summary

Podcast: CrimeLess

Episode: Mascots Behaving Badly
Hosts: Rory Scovel and Josh Dean
Date: February 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this lively and irreverent episode, comedian Rory Scovel and journalist Josh Dean dive deep into the criminal escapades, scandals, and misadventures of America’s most beloved (and occasionally beleaguered) mascots. From Chuck E. Cheese being cuffed in front of horrified kids, to drug-dealing parrots and lawsuit-prone fanatics, the hosts gleefully unpack both infamous and obscure cases where mascots were at the heart of controversy. Engaging in witty banter, sharing listener confessions, and taking a “fursona” personality quiz, the duo proves: behind every fuzzy face might be a wild story.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Arrest at Chuck E. Cheese: A Mascot in Trouble

• [02:12–13:04]
  • Incident: Police enter a Tallahassee, Florida Chuck E. Cheese and arrest the employee in the mouse costume for credit card fraud—right in front of children and parents.
  • Hosts react with shock and sympathy for the traumatized kids ("You can tell it's not like, hey, because you're under arrest. They're almost like, don't make this look worse than it already looks." – Rory, 04:34).
  • Memorable police dialogue: "We're going to detain the mouse." (Josh, 05:11; Rory, 04:34)
  • The accused: Jermell Jones, 41, arrested for credit card fraud and found with a small bag of marijuana ("Come on, guys. I work at Chuck E. Cheese. You think I do this sober?" – Rory, 10:27).
  • Host commentary: Critique of police timing and tactics, and musings about the effect on children ("They ended the childhood innocence of so many people." – Josh, 11:34).
  • Anecdotes about costume etiquette and trauma for both staff and kids.

Chuck E. Cheese Employee Confessions

• [18:03–21:08]
  • Reddit stories: Ex-employees confess to costumes-as-sex-den sites and traumatizing incidents, like a 7-foot-tall rat scaring a birthday boy or someone carrying a vomit-filled Chuck E. Cheese head across the dining room ("Oh, my God, he's been beheaded. Jesus." – Rory, 20:54).

The Pittsburgh Pirate Parrot and the 1980s Coke Scandal

• [21:14–27:51]
  • Story: Kevin Koch, the original Pirate Parrot (Pittsburgh Pirates mascot), gets caught up as a drug courier, linking MLB players to cocaine suppliers.
  • Historical backdrop: His cooperation with the FBI leads to the infamous Pittsburgh Drug Trials, suspensions, and tales of rampant in-game use ("I never stopped to think. I thought, this will last forever. We'll never get caught. Boy, the choices you make are huge. The drugs end up taking your dignity away." – Coach, quoted by Josh, 27:18).
  • Host riff: Would baseball be more entertaining if it returned to its lawless, drug-fueled days? ("Do you want to watch sober baseball, or do you want to watch cocaine-fueled baseball?" – Rory, 26:45).

The Philly Phanatic: America’s Most Sued Mascot

• [28:10–33:30]
  • Introduction: The chaos-inducing, neon-green Phillies mascot is not only an icon but reportedly the most litigated mascot in U.S. sports.
  • Series of lawsuits: Includes knocking down a pregnant woman, injuring an elderly man, and an overzealous hug leading to a $2.5 million damages payout ("This is like suing Santa Claus." – quoting a lawyer, 32:40).
  • Discussion: How Philadelphia’s mascot culture leans into mayhem and legal trouble, with lively attempts to justify the Fanatic’s wildness ("He has to walk around and do crazy things. He's been around so long, he has to keep topping himself." – Josh, 33:04).

More Mascots Behaving Badly

• [37:59–44:38]
  • Benny the Bull (Chicago Bulls): In 2006, the mascot (played by Barry Anderson) flees from a cop on a tiny motorcycle during a festival, ends up arrested and charged with battery and driving without a permit. Charges later dropped.
  • Blaze, the Vulcan (California University of Pennsylvania): In 2010, the student mascot sets a parade float aflame, resulting in criminal charges—most notably, "risking a catastrophe." The university stands behind him.
  • WVU and Couch Burning: Sidebar on Morgantown, WVU’s infamous tradition of celebratory arson, illustrating how rowdy student, mascot, and sports culture can overlap in unexpected ways ("Education clearly is not keeping kids from making poor choices." – Rory, 42:20).

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the Chuck E. Cheese arrest:

  • "We're going to detain the mouse." – (Police officer, recounted by Josh, 05:11)
  • "I now am pro-Jermell. For sure. Okay. All right. Credit card fraud. Shit. We've all wanted to live that life." – Rory, 07:56
  • “Would y’all put Mickey Mouse in cuffs?” – Kid’s mom, (08:37)

• On mascot trauma:

  • "I understand that we, in the grand scheme of things, dealing with the consequences of Chuck E. Cheese is trivial, but...these are minimal, traumatic moments that happen in a child's life." – Rory, 11:13

• Mascot confessions:

  • "The costume room was the only place without security cameras. It became a sex den. A Chuck E. Cheese sex tape was filmed." – Josh, 18:24

• On the Pirate Parrot & '80s baseball:

  • "I feel like it's always cocaine." – Rory, 23:37
  • “Let me ask you, Josh, do you want to watch sober baseball or do you want to watch cocaine-fueled baseball?” – Rory, 26:45

• On the Philly Phanatic:

  • "He's the most sued mascot of sports." – Josh, 30:12
  • “This is like suing Santa Claus. I’m expecting him to come out to a deposition, stick out his stomach and tongue at me and not say anything.” – Lawyer for Grace Cass, (32:40)
  • "Never turn your back on the Fanatic." – Josh, 33:25

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Fun Segment: Fursona Personality Quiz

• [45:05–51:54]
  • The hosts take an online “fursona” quiz to see what animal mascots best represent them. Both are identified as “wildcats” (like Heather Locklear and Fergie, apparently).
  • Playful banter about their animal identities, furry culture stats, and what this all says about them.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chuck E. Cheese Arrest Story: 02:12–13:04
• Reddit Confessions from Chuck E. Cheese: 18:03–21:08
• Pirate Parrot and MLB Coke Scandal: 21:14–27:51
• Philly Phanatic Lawsuits: 28:10–33:30
• Benny the Bull and Blaze the Vulcan: 37:59–44:38
• WVU Couch Burning: 41:35–44:35
• Fursona Quiz Segment: 45:05–51:54

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is marked by its blend of irreverence, genuine curiosity, and snappy humor. The hosts consistently look for the human angles behind the headlines—both the absurd trauma of kids seeing their cherished icon cuffed, and the remarkably human motivations (money, fun, coping mechanisms) behind mascots’ indiscretions. There’s a recurring theme of how law enforcement, institutions, and mascots themselves handle the tension between “theater and reality,” especially when things go wrong in very public spaces.

Key Takeaway:
Behind every friendly mascot lies a person—and sometimes, a truly wild story. Whether traumatizing children, fueling scandals, or just creating bizarre headlines, mascots are as prone to “behaving badly” as the rest of us—maybe even more so, given the giant green (or furry) masks they use to hide in plain sight.

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Transcript

[Narrator/Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts.

[Narrator/Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Josh Dean]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Narrator/Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scovel]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Narrator/Host]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Rory Scovel]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Narrator/Host]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games.

[Narrator/Host]

A new podcast, exploring nlp, AKA neuro linguistic programming. Is it a self help miracle? A shady hypnosis scam? Or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Josh Dean]

Evidence has been made sufficient. The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

[Amanda Knox]

What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?

[Narrator/Host]

Oh my God.

[Josh Dean]

I think she might be inn.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Rory Scovel]

I would also argue there's probably not a lot of national chain restaurants that can facilitate an orgy.

[Amanda Knox]

Campsite.

[Nancy Glass]

Media smart.

[Josh Dean]

Less media. Rory, here's a bit of a curveball for you, okay? Do you know what the E in Chuck E. Cheese stands for?

[Rory Scovel]

Entertainer. Entertainment.

[Josh Dean]

Yes, because that's what he provides, Right?

[Rory Scovel]

Doesn't mean that in some killer pizza.

[Josh Dean]

Pure uncut entertainment for kids. And grownups love that. Have you been to many Chuck E. Jesus.

[Rory Scovel]

You know, I assume you and I both when it was showbiz. Remember back when it was showbiz and it was the bear? I went all the time as a kid, and then I think I went several times when it became Chuck E. Cheese and then kind of phased out. However, I probably went more times than most people aging because I had so many younger siblings that that was also like a destination kind of play place.

[Josh Dean]

It's a wild joint. I mean, kind of gross, but also kind of awesome.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

And we have one in Brooklyn, so. My wife especially. But we've been many times with our kids, of course, because it's kind of a godsend. They sell wristbands for unlimited games for the kids, and they serve booze.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Which is not something many kid hangouts do.

[Rory Scovel]

It's smart. It's a smart move.

[Josh Dean]

You just have to be willing to watch a grown person in what could reasonably be viewed as a rat costume dance periodically.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep. And honestly, once you've been into enough boozies, that becomes more and more entertaining for you.

[Josh Dean]

For you. Right. The kids are playing. It's a bunch of parents doing the Electric Slide.

[Rory Scovel]

Right.

[Josh Dean]

So you may be wondering what this has to do with the crimes. Allow me to show you a video Lane's gonna play, which explains, and you can tell the audio listeners what we're seeing here.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Josh Dean]

Lane, can you cue this up?

[Narrator/Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

Uh oh, here we go. I see police. They're entering a Chuck E. Cheese. They are going into the very front of the Chuck E. Cheese.

[Josh Dean]

We're gonna detain the mouse.

[Rory Scovel]

Do you?

[Josh Dean]

We are. Did you hear that?

[Rory Scovel]

What did he say? We're gonna detain the mouse.

[Josh Dean]

Yep.

[Rory Scovel]

They look like they don't know fully how to do this. Given the fact that there's parents and kids.

[Josh Dean]

Maybe a little awkward.

[Rory Scovel]

Right. It looks like people are trying to move away from the rat. Okay. They are arresting Chuck E. Cheese at Chuck E. Cheese. And I gotta say, you can tell that they, in that moment, they're like, don't resist. And you can tell it's not like, hey, because you're under arrest. They're almost like, don't make this look worse than it already looks. You can tell that they are like, don't resist for optics reasons.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, right, Exactly. So we don't have to tackle the mascot in front of a bunch of children. You want to guess what state we're in?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, is it Florida? Yes,

[Josh Dean]

of course it's Florida.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep. It's never Idaho, you know what I mean? It's never no Wisconsin one.

[Josh Dean]

At one of these episodes, I'm going to fool you. I'm going to ask you and you're going to say Florida. And it will be perfect. Okay, so it's Tallahassee, the capital of Florida.

[Rory Scovel]

You know what? That's zero surprises there.

[Josh Dean]

So if you listen closely, at the 22nd mark, one of the cops says, we're going to detain the mouse.

[Rory Scovel]

Which you don't hear a lot. You don't. In fact, that might be the only time in the history of policing that that sentence has ever been stated.

[Josh Dean]

So there's another incredible piece of police dialogue that's sadly not captured here, but I found it in a Fox News report, so I'll have to do a dramatic reading for you.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, here we go.

[Josh Dean]

Chucky, come with me. Chucky. Chucky. Stop resisting. You're being detained. Stop resisting. Do not cause a scene here, sir.

[Rory Scovel]

Chucky. How respectful to just call him by the character's name.

[Josh Dean]

Especially because they do know the name of the guy in there, obviously, because they're there for. But they don't want to break character. It's like arresting Santa.

[Rory Scovel]

They still care about the. The suspens of disbelief for the children.

[Josh Dean]

They're like in the car before. Okay, okay. Larry.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Whatever you do, don't call him Kevin.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, whatever you do, don't disrespect the art of theater, whatever you do.

[Josh Dean]

These kids, this could have an impact on their lives.

[Rory Scovel]

And what do I say before we ever detain anyone? I always say theater above everything else.

[Josh Dean]

So Chuck E. Cheese gets arrested in Chuck E. Cheese.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

They escort then the giant rat mouse out of the store in cuffs. This, this is in July of 2025, not that long ago last summer.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, months ago. This is months ago.

[Josh Dean]

The person inside that costume, because, Rory, there is a human in there. It's not real.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay, now, now, I don't fully trust you as a person.

[Josh Dean]

If your daughter listens. Earmuffs.

[Rory Scovel]

If you're saying that there's a person in there, then fine.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, I mean, we all believe different things, right?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Okay, that person is named Jermell Jones. He's a 41 year old Florida man who's arrested on suspicion of credit card fraud. Okay, so, all right, could have been way worse, right?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

A guy in a Chuck E. Cheese. Your first instinct is not credit card fraud.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay?

[Josh Dean]

You're thinking like, does the mouse sometimes take off his pants?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah. I so you're telling me that they are detaining the rat at work? I was under the impression we were about to hear about a disturbance going on inside. This makes me feel a little bit better from the perspective of the children. And I gotta say, it makes me wonder if cops understand timing. Like, hey, maybe when the guy clocks out, we. Maybe we get there. Maybe we skip coffee and we get there before the guy clocks in or at home or. Or at his. At his home. His place of residence. Nah, let's traumatize these kids. So I got to say, I now am. I'm now pro. I'm now pro, Jamal. For sure. Okay. All right. Credit card fraud. Shit. We've all wanted to live that life.

[Josh Dean]

So if the cops are taking this very bummed out rat. Mouse out of the restaurant. Kid tries to get close for a photo, causing one cop to say, chucky's a little busy, ma'.

[Rory Scovel]

Am.

[Josh Dean]

And when the kid is visibly and audibly bummed, you can hear the mom yell. The question I think we are all asking. Would y' all put Mickey Mouse in cuffs?

[Rory Scovel]

Yes. Discrimination. This is mouse rat. Discrimination.

[Josh Dean]

Exactly.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

They would never do that to Mickey Mouse.

[Rory Scovel]

No, the cops would have yelled out, we're not allowed at Disney World.

[Josh Dean]

Which, honestly, they're probably not. Right?

[Rory Scovel]

I'm guessing got its own jurisdiction. I genuinely think that might be true.

[Josh Dean]

Certainly you'd have to get Disney security permission. And they'd be like, okay, here's how we're going to do it. Yeah, he's not going to be in the costume. Yeah, we're going to wait until he's not. Oh, yeah, that's possible. I thought we were detaining the mouse.

[Rory Scovel]

I thought we had to do it while he was in costume.

[Josh Dean]

It does not make the police department seem super sharp.

[Rory Scovel]

And, I mean, again, it's not. The criminals in Florida are. It doesn't necessarily mean the police in Florida. You know, no disrespect to either side of the coin, but it's not like cops are, oh, they made a good day to go get him. Could have picked better timing.

[Josh Dean]

Could have gotten him at home.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

So here's what seems to have happened. So a Chuck E. Cheese customer lost a credit card after taking her kid there for a party. Easy to imagine. Drop it. Leave it at the counter.

[Rory Scovel]

Sure.

[Josh Dean]

That card was then used by someone to purchase things at a store she didn't use. So that's fraud. And that shop had video footage of the person. A person who appeared to be Jermell Jones. This was plenty of evidence to get the arrest warrant to pick him up. The missing credit card, by the way, was located in his pocket at the time of arrest. Jones claimed he just found it at work and never used it. And he was just, I guess, carrying it around as a good luck charm.

[Rory Scovel]

Interesting. It's a necklace. He had a hole punched in it. He's got it. That's his Jesus on the cross. It's a credit card.

[Josh Dean]

That would make sense, except we also have video of you using the card, sir.

[Rory Scovel]

And we have documentation that the card has been. Has been used.

[Josh Dean]

You're going to like this. They also found a small bag of weed on his person, but he had an explanation for that, too. He said he was just planning to get his medical marijuana license on the way home.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Also, we would have accepted. Come on, guys. I work at Chuck E. Cheese.

[Josh Dean]

You think I do this sober?

[Rory Scovel]

Sorry. You wouldn't do this if you wore a costume as an adult at Chuck E. Cheese. What do you think gets me through

[Josh Dean]

the day and had to do the electric slide.

[Rory Scovel]

You have to do the electric slide. And I walk around while children. Honestly, most of them punch me. And based on their size, a lot of times they're hitting me in an area that does hurt quite a bit.

[Josh Dean]

So he pleaded not guilty, and the matter is ongoing. But one mom who'd brought her family to location that day told a local Fox 13 reporter her kids were upset. We're still processing the trauma, she said. They've been asking a hundred questions like, does this mean Chucky's gone forever? Like, what now?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, exactly. That's what I mean. I mean, I understand that we, in the grand scheme of things, dealing with the consequences of Chuck E. Cheese is trivial, but, you know, these are minimal, traumatic moments that happen in a child's life that could have been prevented by the police. It just seems so bizarre to me. They didn't agree, go before or after work or like you said, to his house.

[Josh Dean]

They ended the childhood innocence of so many people. Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

For no reason. There was no reason for that. And then they're just there with no mouth.

[Josh Dean]

Rat mouth.

[Rory Scovel]

And, like, the employee. It's not even like the employees of the. They're like, wait, so that's kind of our only costume. We don't have backups. If you guys could.

[Josh Dean]

You can imagine, like, the manager running out the front door being like, can we keep the costume?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Can you. What? What are you doing? At least give us the head. We can replace the clothing, but, my God, the price is on getting a Giant head costume of a rat.

[Narrator/Host]

They gave the head back, but I think he wasn't wearing any clothes underneath the suit.

[Rory Scovel]

I don't think you would. I think you probably would be wearing it as though those are your clothes. I bet you it's so hot.

[Narrator/Host]

Getting character, you know, you're in character

[Rory Scovel]

and you're sweating for sure.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, underpants, presumably.

[Rory Scovel]

I think he had underpants on. Yeah, let's hope.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, that's a shared costume. It's not like Chucky works 24 hours. Like there are shifts. So I would hope to make the costume sanitary. Everyone wears underwear.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, I'm, I'm now very thrown on. What's the etiquette of the costume sharing at these type of restaurants? If you are in the costume, is that on you to take that home and get that washed?

[Josh Dean]

I'm going to guess no.

[Rory Scovel]

You might be right.

[Josh Dean]

But I feel like, yeah, now I'm thinking I want long underwear. If I'm sharing the costume, I want other people.

[Rory Scovel]

Josh in the Electric Slide in long underwear. No way, bud. No way.

[Josh Dean]

You're just, you're just in your boxer shorts.

[Rory Scovel]

You're in there trying to make weight for a high school wrestling match. There's no chance.

[Josh Dean]

Anyway, I tell you that story as an amuse bouche. There's a little spoonful of Chuck E. Cheese flavored sherbert because you're in for a real treat this week. We're going to take on the thrilling and under scrutinized area of America's criminal underbelly. That's right, it's mascots behaving badly. This week on Crimeless Watch. Your six gritty.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

This MSS officer has no idea the US government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

[Josh Dean]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer.

[Rory Scovel]

No doubt, no question of his life.

[Josh Dean]

And that's a unicorn.

[Rory Scovel]

No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK evoking horror and disbelief.

[Rory Scovel]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies. Is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Amanda Knox]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Josh Dean]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Amanda Knox]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Josh Dean]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Josh Dean]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Rory Scovel]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Rory Scovel]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth until a confession changed everything.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mind Games Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Josh Dean]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scovel]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Rory Scovel]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you get someone to join your culture?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Host]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Rory Scovel]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Host]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.

[Narrator/Host]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Host]

Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Josh Dean]

Hello and welcome Back to Crimeless, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals, while also shedding light on the lesser known dark side of things that should bring us joy. This week, mascots. Next week, kindergarten teachers. Or maybe Labradors.

[Rory Scovel]

Ooh.

[Josh Dean]

I'm Josh Dean.

[Rory Scovel]

And I am Rory Scovel in the costume of a man who is a perfect 10, I think we can all agree.

[Josh Dean]

Are you wearing any clothes under that costume?

[Rory Scovel]

And under my clothes, I'm wearing no clothes.

[Josh Dean]

So, before we leave Chuck E. Cheese in the Rear View, I wanted to share something I found on Reddit. I was looking for additional crimes perpetrated in America's happiest mall franchise. Sadly, there weren't many entries that rose to the level for inclusion. But I did enjoy one thread of confessions from people who used to work there.

[Rory Scovel]

That sentence alone is satisfying.

[Josh Dean]

I'm gonna give you one. The costume room was the only place without security cameras. It became a sex 10. A Chuck E. Cheese sex tape was filmed. In said sex tape, the four participants were wearing nothing but the costume heads.

[Rory Scovel]

I'm not going to lie. That is. That felt obvious, but it's also. That's what I was hoping you'd say.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, that's got to be.

[Rory Scovel]

If you just said it was four people having sex in there, any room could be a room. But if they all are wearing the costume heads, and also if all of those costume heads are the same, and it's like Chuck E. Cheese is having sex with three other Chuck E. Cheeses.

[Josh Dean]

No idea if either of those things is true, but we now have credible reports of two orgies at national chain restaurants from Crimeless.

[Rory Scovel]

I would also argue there's probably not a lot of national chain restaurants that can facilitate an orgy. Right.

[Josh Dean]

It's true. Because presumably at Taco Bell, it was closed for the Christmas party.

[Rory Scovel]

That's right.

[Josh Dean]

Could have been an open.

[Rory Scovel]

That's right. That's right. That's a good point.

[Josh Dean]

Well, at least for now. We have yet to find the orgy that takes place in an open restaurant, but we're on the lookout. Crimeless nation. All right, I'm going to read you one more from a guy who worked at Chuck e. Cheese for 20 years as a game technician. So 20 years of Chuck E. Cheese. We may need a documentary about this man.

[Rory Scovel]

That's.

[Josh Dean]

Wow, he's seen some shit. This is verbatim. I'm reading his post. They asked me to be the rat one time. I'm six foot seven. So everything that was supposed to be Baggy was comfortable. Like that episode of the Simpsons where Homer goes to clown college. So I walk out there, I'm over 7ft tall with the head on, wearing my own shoes. Since the suit ones are too small. Children start crying and running away. Yeah, the poor kid who was there for the birthday himself. So they immediately pull me into the back room and get a guy from the kitchen to take over. They never asked me to do it again, of course.

[Rory Scovel]

I just picturing it in my mind, I'm like, God, it's so something you'd see at a Marilyn Manson concert. A seven foot. She's wearing small footage. Rat. Hello? Jesus. Like towering over an adult. Imagine a kid, like a five foot tall adult is a giant to a child.

[Josh Dean]

So he also had a second part to his story. He said, my second favorite story was the time the girl I was helping into the suit vomited in the head. So I take it from her. I start carrying it outside to hose it off. Once again, kids start crying. I guess I should have been aware that bringing the severed head of Chuck E. Cheese across the floor could cause some panic in our young customers.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes. Oh, my God, he's been beheaded. Jesus.

[Josh Dean]

Thus concludes this week's reading of Chuck

[Rory Scovel]

E. Cheese Stories from Reddit Classic new section of the show, new opening section that tales from Chuck E. Cheese.

[Josh Dean]

I could go on, but I have some other mascots to shame. Okay. Do you have a favorite mascot?

[Rory Scovel]

You know, I don't know. I can't remember what the mascot used to be when I was a kid in like the 80s for the Atlanta Braves. It was not a Native American.

[Josh Dean]

I was going to say wildly inappropriate.

[Rory Scovel]

It was. Anyways, that's always been my favorite. I just remember as a kid, it was like almost this very abstract or. No, it was like the chicken. I think it wasn't it a chicken.

[Josh Dean]

That was San Diego. That was the Padres. They did have a chicken. Or maybe the Braves did too.

[Rory Scovel]

Whatever that chicken was, loved it. That famous chicken is like ingrained in my mind.

[Josh Dean]

I'm a Mets fan, so I'm partial to. Mr. Met is often accompanied by his spouse. Mrs. Met.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Giant baseball head on a tiny body.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Josh Dean]

But our next story today pertains to a different National League team, the Pittsburgh Pirates. Do you know what the Pirates mascot is?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, I want to say it's a pirate, but I feel like this is a trap.

[Josh Dean]

It's the Pirate parrot.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

And back in the 1980s, the parrot was a very bad boy. So first, a little history. The Pirate Parrot was not always the Pittsburgh mascot. He actually hatched out of an egg on April Fool's Day in 1979 as a pirate promotional stunt and just stuck.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, people loved it.

[Josh Dean]

They loved it. They love the pirate. The parrot hatching out of an egg. Do you, by the way, do you know where the idea of pirates having parrots as sidekicks comes from?

[Rory Scovel]

No.

[Josh Dean]

Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, he. He started that.

[Josh Dean]

His main pirate, Long John Silver, carried a parrot.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

And that's what people assume was the origin. I mean, I. I did look into it. It seems like there's some reason to believe because pirates were in the Caribbean and that's where a lot of these beautiful, colorful birds are. They probably captured them and carried them around.

[Rory Scovel]

Right. I think we've given pirates a little bit more fun of a vibe than the reality. They more than likely were.

[Josh Dean]

I think that's fair.

[Rory Scovel]

I don't know if they were friends with birds.

[Josh Dean]

Right. By the way, though, can you imagine the first pirate or European to step on ground and meet a colorful bird that talks?

[Rory Scovel]

But also, can you imagine being the pirate where the other pirates are like, there's a bird on your shoulder and being like, yeah, it's my friend now? Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Like, do you want to hear him talk?

[Rory Scovel]

Okay, well, I'm pretty certain you've been drinking a lot of the ocean water because. What are you saying? Yeah, well, listen, he talks and he's my friend, so.

[Josh Dean]

My friend, so. The first man to wear the pirate Parrot costume was named Kevin Coach. And he served in that job for seven years. Known for his high energy appearances and for having a hell of a time. I may know why. Let me play you a little tape.

[Rory Scovel]

I feel like it's always cocaine.

[Josh Dean]

Maybe I don't need to play you the. Dave, this is Kevin Coach, better known as Pirate Parrot. But the man behind the Pirate Parrot costume was more than just an on field entertainer.

[Rory Scovel]

He became an unexpected link in a drug chain that reached deep into the Pirates clubhouse. Again, this is the same as finding a little baggie. A pot in the pocket. Guys, I'm the mascot for a major league baseball team. Fucking leave me alone.

[Josh Dean]

But wait.

[Rory Scovel]

But wait.

[Josh Dean]

He wasn't just possessing.

[Rory Scovel]

Well, he's trying to make a little scratch on the side. He's a parrot. He's having fun.

[Josh Dean]

So in 1985, Coach gets a visit from some very surprising fans. FBI agents working on a case against a known cocaine supplier who've been selling to many people around Pittsburgh, including Coach, who wasn't just using for his own supply. He was selling it to players.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep, there we go.

[Josh Dean]

So the feds make him an offer. If you'll cooperate with the investigation and provide evidence against the bigger dealers and help to expose this emerging scandal that players in Major League Baseball are using coke and playing. They'd forgive the small matter of 100 federal charges they could charge him with. Yeah, so he becomes a cooperating witness.

[Rory Scovel]

As, as anybody would.

[Josh Dean]

Exactly.

[Rory Scovel]

So it seems to me like they like using the pirate name, but they don't like supporting the pirate culture.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, Long John Silver would definitely make him walk the plank for turning state's evidence.

[Rory Scovel]

I think honestly, it's more absurd and zany that they play baseball. We're pirates who play baseball. Now that feels like drug use.

[Josh Dean]

Coach's cooperation leads to the so called Pittsburgh Drug Trials, an extremely high profile affair that put a number of dealers behind bars and exposed widespread drug use in the sport. It caused the Commissioner to suspend 11 players, including some major stars. One of those stars was Keith Hernandez, who I know and love as an X met, you may know from the classic Seinfeld episode the Boyfriend, which Jerry says is his favorite episode of season three. By the way, you better bring your gloves, it's freezing out there. It shouldn't take too long. I'd say maybe, oh, four hours. But the big problem, it's going to be real difficult getting it down the stairs.

[Rory Scovel]

Stairs.

[Josh Dean]

So anyway, Hernandez admits to using coke for three years and told the court or grand jury that he estimated 40% of players at that time were using blow. Yeah, the Wikipedia about these trials is quite a romp. One pirate, John Milner, claimed he bought 2 grams of coke in a bathroom stall during a game. Another player left to go score during a game. And Tim Rains, legendary base stealer, said that he snorted coke during games and sometimes kept a gram in his pocket in a tiny glass vial. So he slid into bases headfirst to make sure he didn't crush it.

[Rory Scovel]

God, doesn't that make you kind of love baseball in a weird, in a weird kind of way? You're like, it's good to know that people have their priorities. I mean, they're out there for nine plus innings. Let these people have some fun.

[Josh Dean]

So maybe we need to bring back the cocaine use.

[Rory Scovel]

Let me ask you, Josh, do you want to watch sober baseball or do you want to watch cocaine fueled baseball? And I think any red blooded American knows exactly what they want.

[Josh Dean]

I think when you put it that way, yeah, it's, there's no question. Let's Bring back the coke.

[Rory Scovel]

When people like steroids, was it not fun watching McGuire and Sosa go at it? Was that not a pleasing moment in baseball history?

[Josh Dean]

Well, so Coach, who beat out more than 100 applicants for that job, told an HBO documentary that 15 to 17 of the pirates on that year's team were using the product and that he was simply a delivery man for a freelance photographer pal who was the actual dealer. Yeah, Coach told the documentary, I never stopped to think. I thought, this will last forever. We'll never get caught. Boy, the choices you make are huge. The drugs end up taking your dignity away. It's like a quote from one of those don't do drugs movies.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. It's kind of. I think it's what Johnny Depp said at the end of the movie Blow.

[Josh Dean]

So I think the lesson here is don't do coke. But if you do, make sure you slide head.

[Rory Scovel]

But if you do, make sure you play baseball. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

After the case, Coach moved to California and became a truck driver. He's still living there today.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, that's when you definitely. You actually need coke for that job.

[Josh Dean]

Okay, we're not going to change sports or move far. For our next story, we'll just drive 300 miles to the east on the Pennsylvania Turnpike to Philly.

[Rory Scovel]

Love it.

[Josh Dean]

Former home of producer Lane, as well as those coin thieves and the Delco Pooper.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, we. We find ourselves in similar locations. There's a lot of crimes in certain spots.

[Josh Dean]

It's like Florida or Philly.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Right now. Yeah, those are our numbers.

[Josh Dean]

It's also home of an incredible mascot for the Phillies. Do you know who that is?

[Rory Scovel]

Isn't it like the weird. It's not. It's like got a honking nose. It's not even like a thing. I don't know what it is, though.

[Josh Dean]

Philly fanatics. A N A T, I C. Yeah, Landing shows. There you go.

[Rory Scovel]

Yep. I mean, now that's fun.

[Josh Dean]

If someone's listening overseas, try to describe what this thing looks like.

[Rory Scovel]

So it's a green monster and arms like normal, very Sesame street esque face with like sort of a horn nose covered in fur at the end and eyebrows are very, very Muppet babies kind of vibe. Wearing a Phillies jersey.

[Josh Dean]

Well, according to his official bio, he's 6 foot 6, weighs 300 pounds and hails from the Galapagos. But his actual origin story, and you're pretty much spot on. He was a RELIC from the 70s. The Fanatic was introduced on April 25, 1978, replacing the prior mascots Philadelphia Phil and Phyllis don't have quite the same ring to them, who wore colonial garb and leaned into the city's history. So Philly, obviously, the mascot has to be way more chaotic than that and ideally neon green. So the team's owner asked Jim Henson supposedly to come up with a mascot, and Jim wasn't available. So you were right. You mentioned the Muppets is extremely muppety. Instead, they went to a New York City company to cook up a concept and they delivered this classic. The USA Today once wrote this. From the top of his neon green head to the tip of his bubble toed size 20 shoes, the Philly Fanatic is every inch the best mascot in the business. He's as much Philadelphia as Cheesesteaks, the Liberty Bell and Rocky Balboa. Sure, one of the most popular mascots in all of sports. But he also has one more dubious claim. Do you want to guess what that is?

[Rory Scovel]

No, what is it?

[Josh Dean]

He's the most sued mascot of sports.

[Rory Scovel]

Of course. Of course.

[Josh Dean]

Not a thing. I made up a paper by the Cardoza Law Review actually stated this, and a team spokesperson later took issue. Of course. And let me offer the evidence. In 1993, the team settled a case for $25,000 after the fanatic accidentally kicked a pregnant woman in the back and shoved her forward during a game against the Reds.

[Rory Scovel]

Wow.

[Josh Dean]

Accidentally. Keyword.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, I'd have to see video of that.

[Josh Dean]

In 1995, a 72 year old man won $128,000 at a jury trial after the Fanatic knocked him down during a church carnival. And in 1998, the mascot was at the opening of a paint store when he hugged a man named Charles Donahue from behind, apparently with a bit too much enthusiasm. Donahue claims the hug resulted in a ruptured disc and a jury awarded him $2.5 million in damage.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, my God. How great is that? Also, isn't it fun to picture that no one's hiring the Fanatic, but the Fanatic is literally a citizen of this town. And it's just at these events and also being very on brand with their behavior the whole time. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Or is like, yeah, just trying to blend in. And maybe he's doing this. He's like, I didn't mean to hug him so hard. Look at me. I'm a giant green thing.

[Rory Scovel]

I could never do anything right. Come on, Fanatic.

[Josh Dean]

You're just.

[Rory Scovel]

You're too fanatical.

[Narrator/Host]

Ah.

[Rory Scovel]

I pushed that pregnant lady. I just was trying to get her to get up and start dancing. It's all. It's all from such a sweet place. Loving place. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

I just wanted to hug the man. Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Lenny, of Mice and Men. Lenny is. Is the Philly Fanatic.

[Josh Dean]

I have a fourth case. The most recent one is from 2008, and the fanatic took a little road trip to the one of the minor league affiliates in reading. That's where 75 year old Grace Cass, who was at the game with a church group, claims that the Fanatic climbed into the stands, as mascots often do, and sat on her lap, causing arthritis that ultimately required knee replacement surgery.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, I could imagine. I could imagine something like that sits on you. The costume alone is probably its own weird, you know, material. I don't know.

[Josh Dean]

And she's 75.

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, 75. What's the fanatic doing? Like, come on, read. Read the room.

[Josh Dean]

He's probably saying, you think I can see out of these eyes?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. The Phillies are like, God, if we didn't have all these lawsuits, we could afford a superstar player. We could really. We could really put some people on the field.

[Josh Dean]

So here's what Grace's attorney told a reporter. He was aware of how bad this looked going after a beloved mascot who was just trying to get the fans fired up. He said, this is like suing Santa Claus. I'm expecting him to come out to a deposition, stick out his stomach and tongue at me and not say anything.

[Rory Scovel]

I kind of love that.

[Josh Dean]

That's a great. That's an all time lawyer. Lawyer saying. So he's not being a dick. He's like, yeah, I know how this looks.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. All right.

[Josh Dean]

Speaking of amazing quotes, the guy who wrote the article for the Cardozo Law Review, sports law professor Robert Jarvis, pointed to the very term, and I think you made this point fanatic, while attempting to explain how this neon green bird keeps ending up in court. He said it's in his name. He has to walk around and do crazy things. He's been around so long, he has to keep topping himself.

[Rory Scovel]

I gotta say, not a bad argument.

[Josh Dean]

I see it so hard to argue with that. And I would say our takeaway is never turn your back on the Fanatic.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Watch your six.

[Rory Scovel]

And yeah, never be there.

[Josh Dean]

Never.

[Rory Scovel]

Like, if you see the fanatic inch away, watch from a. Watch from afar.

[Josh Dean]

Or if you're 75, you're a target. Yeah, you're. Honestly. After the break, a few more sports mascots who got into hot water.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies. In the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Rory Scovel]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

[Josh Dean]

I now have several terabytes of an

[Rory Scovel]

MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life.

[Josh Dean]

And that's the unicorn.

[Rory Scovel]

No one had ever seen anything like that. It was unbelievable.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK evoking horror and disbelief.

[Rory Scovel]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Amanda Knox]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Josh Dean]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Amanda Knox]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Josh Dean]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it. To ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Josh Dean]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt. It'll cause so much harm at every

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

single level of the British establishment of this is wrong.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Rory Scovel]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Tremaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Rory Scovel]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity. The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of Guilt, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mind Games Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Josh Dean]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scovel]

When you look at your car, you're gonna become overwhelmed.

[Mind Games Host]

With such good feelings, can you hypnotize someone? And sleeping with you, I gave her

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Host]

Nlp, AKA Neuro linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for your brain.

[Josh Dean]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Host]

Mind Games is the story of nlp. It's crazy cast of disciples and the fake doctor who invented it at a new age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, NLP might actually work.

[Narrator/Host]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Host]

Listen to mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Josh Dean]

Hello and welcome back to Crimeless, the only podcast brave enough to unmask sports mascots as the menace to society that they truly are.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes, true.

[Josh Dean]

Our next story takes us to a new sport. Basketball.

[Rory Scovel]

All right.

[Josh Dean]

As well as to a new city also known for unruly fans. The Windy City. Chicago.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Okay, next trivia question. Do you know the name of the Bulls mascot?

[Rory Scovel]

I bet it starts with a B because sports love alliteration.

[Josh Dean]

Benny the Bull.

[Rory Scovel]

Benny the Bull. Benny and the Bull.

[Josh Dean]

So back in 2006, the guy who then was portraying Benny, Barry Anderson, 26

[Rory Scovel]

years old, and he had to. He also had to have a B in his name. They were very critical of that.

[Josh Dean]

If your resume, Rory, Josh, we wouldn't. We don't see it a chance.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay. Barry, you're Benny the Bull. So good. That felt just rolling out of my lips. Barry. Benny the Bull.

[Josh Dean]

So Barry, Benny was riding one of those adorable tiny motorcycles at the Taste of Chicago Festival, which included riding through Grant Park.

[Rory Scovel]

It's always off hours. These guys are getting in trouble.

[Josh Dean]

So he's riding his tiny motorcycle through Grant park when an off duty cop who's working security attempts to stop him. The reason? He's riding his motor vehicle in the park without a permit. And when the cop working security tries to stop and check his papers, Anderson did what a mascot breaking the law was inevitably going to do. He ran. Yeah, but he's a grown man wearing a giant bull costume, so he didn't get very far.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah. You're not. You're not running a 4 flat 40.

[Josh Dean]

I think cops is like, okay, come on.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

So he gets caught, and that's where the real trouble starts.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh.

[Josh Dean]

According to cops, Anderson threw a punch, knocked off the deputy's glasses, and broke his watch. He was arrested, charged with misdemeanor battery and Dr. Driving within a parkway and taken in for booking. And in this case, the costume was sent immediately back to the Bulls headquarters at the United Center. So, although city officials later spoke out in Benny's favor, saying that he was always welcome at city events and charges were ultimately dropped. What? Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Maybe it could have been. You can imagine. It's like the fanatic situation where maybe he didn't mean to knock the glasses off. He's just like, I'm in a giant suit, dude.

[Rory Scovel]

I get knocking the glasses off. I want to know how he broke the watch. Well, yeah,

[Josh Dean]

so anyway, the charges were dropped. Benny the Bull lived on. Which brings me to our final story of the week and probably the most on the nose. And for this one, we go to California. Pennsylvania.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay.

[Josh Dean]

Did you know that was a town?

[Rory Scovel]

No, and I don't approve of it in any capacity.

[Josh Dean]

It's about to get worse because we are going to the confusingly named California University of Pennsylvania, which should not be confused. And I'm not making this up with Indiana University of Pennsylvania.

[Rory Scovel]

It's not. This is such a lack of creativity

[Josh Dean]

locally or Miami, University of Ohio.

[Rory Scovel]

It's just.

[Josh Dean]

I could go on.

[Rory Scovel]

It's. I know.

[Josh Dean]

I won't.

[Rory Scovel]

It's wrong. It's wrong.

[Josh Dean]

Sports teams from California University are known as the Vulcans. And the Vulcan, if you don't know, is the mythological God of fire. So the mascot is then called Blaze. Makes sense, right?

[Rory Scovel]

Yep.

[Josh Dean]

Back in 2010, the guy who played Blaze, a 20 year old named James Schaefer, took the role a little too seriously when, after the homecoming parade, he set afloat on fire.

[Rory Scovel]

Huh.

[Josh Dean]

To be fair, the float had broken down on the street and, well, he is the God of fire. But cops did not find this amusing. They arrested Shaffer and charged him with arson, criminal mischief, disorderly conduct, and my favorite new crime that I learned this week, Risking a catastrophe.

[Rory Scovel]

Cool. Very cool.

[Josh Dean]

A crime I suspect you're sometimes guilty of when you eat mushroom chocolates before going on stage.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, always.

[Josh Dean]

Schaefer was not immediately fired and the school even issued a supportive statement. This young man is a well known and well liked member of the community. The university acknowledges the serious nature of the charges he is facing, but our immediate concern is for his health and well being. Also. No one was harmed.

[Rory Scovel]

That's a good school. They got your back. I like that.

[Josh Dean]

I like it.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

I may be biased.

[Rory Scovel]

And you are. We've always said that Every episode we say, you are incredibly biased.

[Josh Dean]

And especially so in this case because I come from Morgantown, West Virginia, home of wvu, which is famous for, among other things, for its students, love of setting couches on fire.

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, no, I didn't know that at all.

[Josh Dean]

Not an urban myth either. Okay, consider these facts. Morgantown ranked second nationally to Columbus, Ohio, a city much larger between 2008 and 2012. In intentionally set fires, Louisiana came in third.

[Rory Scovel]

Just the city alone.

[Josh Dean]

Morgantown has about 30,000 people in Morgantown. Wow. Data provided by Morgantown fire department in 2004 showed that the city led the nation with 1129 intentional street fires in a six year stretch from 1997 to 2003.

[Rory Scovel]

So the irony here is that education clearly is not keeping kids from making poor choices.

[Josh Dean]

Not at all.

[Rory Scovel]

They're making more poor choices.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

I'm guessing most of those students were setting their first fire. It's their first arsons.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. This is where they learned. It was at college.

[Josh Dean]

They did.

[Rory Scovel]

That's interesting.

[Josh Dean]

And it's not only sports. Here's a video of Morgantown on the night Osama bin Laden was killed.

[Rory Scovel]

Any excuse?

[Josh Dean]

Any excuse, man, hard to tell what's on fire. Something large, probably a couch or several couches.

[Rory Scovel]

Bin Laden's dead couch burning at WV you, man.

[Josh Dean]

Eventually, the town got sick of it and started trying to curb the trend. Here's another clip.

[Rory Scovel]

I like that the town eventually got sick of it.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. Seven, 10, 20 years later, they're like,

[Rory Scovel]

let's get famous first, then let's try to scale it back.

[Mind Games Host]

This is a couch.

[Josh Dean]

It's for sitting and sleeping and losing your remote.

[Mind Games Host]

Where else would you keep spare change?

[Narrator/Host]

Burning a couch isn't cool.

[Josh Dean]

It can cost you a lot more than you think.

[Amanda Knox]

So don't be stupid.

[Josh Dean]

Be smart. Celebrate with class. All right?

[Rory Scovel]

And this is why I'm like, why are we getting rid of Sesame Street? These things are so critical to people's development.

[Josh Dean]

We're gonna have to put that PSA on social media. I mean, also like, the squarest thing possible that could have been made.

[Rory Scovel]

It's so square, but also absurd that they had to even do that. Guys, couches are for sitting. Oh, okay.

[Josh Dean]

For college students. Advanced education people who are paying tens of thousands of dollars.

[Rory Scovel]

Advanced education people that are people that are getting an education that will put them in debt for the rest of their lives. That when you come to that realization that you can't pay off your student debt, then start setting stuff on fire. Don't do it. In the middle of learning. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

What's the rowdiest thing you ever did in college?

[Rory Scovel]

We set couches on fire. I don't even know. I mean, I don't think we ever did anything that was insane. I think we did the most usual thing of going to parties that are broken up by police. And you run.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

You know, there was like a little bit of high school and college, but nothing where you were ever like, oh, this is illegal, this is bad.

[Josh Dean]

Ideally, you weren't running in the mascot costume.

[Rory Scovel]

Exactly.

[Josh Dean]

Well, my only regret about this is that we have to move on because I could tell these stories. I was especially entertained by the research this week. I love of this. We may have to do a part 2 of mascots behaving Badly.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, sure.

[Josh Dean]

But I think it's time to move on. And after the break, you know what happens. Lane is going to test our intellectual metal.

[Rory Scovel]

Lane's games. That's next.

[Josh Dean]

Greetings, crimeless nation, and welcome back to everyone's favorite segment. Rory Lanes game. What are we playing this week?

[Narrator/Host]

I have a personality quiz for you guys that I didn't make up, but it is from a website called Animal and you Dot com. Because we talked about mascots, but we didn't talk about any furries. And I think you guys should establish your fursona.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Okay.

[Rory Scovel]

Love to go.

[Narrator/Host]

A quick statistic for you. According to First Science, a summary of five years of research from the International Anthropomorphic Research Project. This is a very legitimate study. Over two thirds of furries identify as male, and over 80% identify as white.

[Josh Dean]

So not shocking at all.

[Narrator/Host]

All I'm saying is this could be. This could be something for you guys.

[Rory Scovel]

You're saying that so far we're in the running.

[Narrator/Host]

Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

We've got what it takes.

[Josh Dean]

Also, if you asked, I think if you ask either of us to say, is it more men than women and is it more white people than other ethnicities, we would have been like, yep. Yeah. Is it not 100% of both?

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

I found this quiz on the subreddit r furries, and a couple people said it was pretty accurate. And it's only 10 questions, so.

[Josh Dean]

Okay, let's go.

[Narrator/Host]

All right, let's do it. Joshua Roy, who wants to go first?

[Josh Dean]

Rory, you go first.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay. How physically big are you? Are you quite small and petite? Are you smaller than most but sturdily built? About average, bigger or extra large?

[Rory Scovel]

Okay, so I am about 6ft, and I think I'm like 190. Is that average or am I slightly bigger than most people? I don't really know.

[Josh Dean]

I think it's slightly bigger than most people.

[Rory Scovel]

Okay. All right.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

Okay.

[Narrator/Host]

How aggressive are you? Do you avoid confrontation? Do you go look for trouble? But you're no pushover. You kind of middle ground. But you only react aggressively if it's called for. Hotheaded or forceful. Don't mess with me.

[Rory Scovel]

We'll do middle ground.

[Narrator/Host]

Middle ground. Okay. How social are you? Generally self contained. Keep to yourself. Prefer the company of small groups. Pretty outgoing and comfortable socializing with all groups. Or extremely outgoing. Can function with all types of people.

[Rory Scovel]

I would say I prefer the company of small groups of friends.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay. How attractive do you think you are?

[Rory Scovel]

Perfect ten.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay. I'm attractive and turned heads. Mother Nature.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Yes.

[Narrator/Host]

Creativity. You're not one for writing songs. Are you pretty good at coming up with creative ideas?

[Rory Scovel]

I think I'm the last one. I definitely love creating.

[Narrator/Host]

How. How do you rank selflessness and cooperation? Wise. Very compassionate. Put the needs of friends and families above your own. You're cooperative and willing to help friends in need. But you have a life too. Or you look out for number one. Call me selfish, but a friend in need is a pain in the ass.

[Rory Scovel]

Probably that middle one. I think I'm a little bit of both.

[Narrator/Host]

How intelligent are you?

[Rory Scovel]

Oh, trying to. I'm like smartest. I'm smarter.

[Josh Dean]

Est. Just don't ask him. Vice presidential tribute.

[Rory Scovel]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Narrator/Host]

How athletic are you? Do you watch tv? Does that count? You like to keep fit, but it's not top priority. Or you're very physically active.

[Rory Scovel]

I gotta say, sadly, I think it's number one in my mid-40s, which is not the time when you want to start to become less active.

[Narrator/Host]

Travel and exploration. Do you stay home? Do you go away for day trips and long weekends? Love vacations or you love traveling?

[Rory Scovel]

I mean, here's the caveat, is that I do love traveling, but it's always for work. So I'm never like vacation traveling. I just have a fun job so that traveling is not a headache. It's like getting to go perform. But when I'm home, I do want to kind of stay at home.

[Josh Dean]

So maybe it's the middle one.

[Rory Scovel]

Maybe the middle one.

[Narrator/Host]

Last one. How impulsive are you? You're more impulsive than you should be. Pretty thoughtful or always deliberate and cautious.

[Rory Scovel]

I would say middle one.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay. Pause. You're a wild cat.

[Rory Scovel]

Yes. And I'm allergic to cats. So we know this is inaccurate.

[Narrator/Host]

Attractive, spiritual, sexy, Uncommitted. There's A little sponsored ad for heated rivalry.

[Rory Scovel]

Ooh, dancer. Travel agent.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, your specialty. Got a heated rivalry. Programmatic ad.

[Narrator/Host]

You love massages.

[Nancy Glass]

Traveling.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, it's clearly sponsored love at and T. Like. Wait, why would it say that?

[Narrator/Host]

Okay, I think what we should do is. Now Josh should take this.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah, Josh, see if.

[Josh Dean]

See if we match. Okay, wait. Go down. Who are the sl. Who are the celebrities? I saw Fergie.

[Narrator/Host]

Fergie is a wildcat. As is Heather Locklear.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, perfect.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah.

[Narrator/Host]

That's the only two others.

[Rory Scovel]

I get that a lot. People are like, you're like a male version of Fergie and Heather Locklear.

[Josh Dean]

All right, my turn.

[Rory Scovel]

How.

[Narrator/Host]

How. How big are you?

[Josh Dean]

I think I'm pretty average.

[Narrator/Host]

Average or somewhat bigger than most. What do we think?

[Josh Dean]

I'm not. I'm like 5:11. If Rory's 6ft, I'll do average size. Okay.

[Narrator/Host]

How aggressive? Oh, very or little or medium?

[Josh Dean]

I think middle ground aggressively when the situation calls for it.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay. How social are you?

[Josh Dean]

I'm pretty introverted generally. Let's go with the top one. Keep mainly to myself.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm generally self contained. Okay.

[Rory Scovel]

Guy with a public podcast that speaks to many, many strangers across the globe.

[Narrator/Host]

How attractive do you think you are?

[Josh Dean]

I'm going 10 out of 10 attractive and turned heads. Let's see. Creativity. I'm pretty creative. I like. I'm. Let's go with out of the box creature.

[Narrator/Host]

Okay. You love playing guitar.

[Josh Dean]

Selflessness. I'm gonna go middle here, too, because I don't think I'm super. Yeah. Intelligent. I'm gonna go. I'm actually very good at Jeopardy. Let's go with. I'd score high in jeopardy.

[Narrator/Host]

How athletic.

[Josh Dean]

I'm gonna say I like to keep fit, but it's not my top priority.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

Okay.

[Narrator/Host]

Travel and exploration.

[Josh Dean]

Love exotic locales.

[Narrator/Host]

Loves exotic locales. And how impulsive are you?

[Josh Dean]

Let's do middle. Pretty thoughtful.

[Narrator/Host]

Pretty thoughtful, but there's room for improvement.

[Josh Dean]

All right, what do we got?

[Narrator/Host]

Oh, my God. Wildcats. What?

[Rory Scovel]

Wait, does it just always give Wildcat.

[Josh Dean]

I know exactly.

[Narrator/Host]

I'm a penguin. If that means anything to you in

[Rory Scovel]

the furry community, it means you're the most dressed up.

[Josh Dean]

I was trying to pick to have enough. Be different and be authentic.

[Narrator/Host]

Oh, okay. So friendship wise, beware of petty jealousies, but also high. High score for love and sex.

[Josh Dean]

All right.

[Rory Scovel]

Only Josh and I know deep inside that that's inaccurate.

[Josh Dean]

Yes.

[Narrator/Host]

Dang. So start commissioning those furry costumes of wildcats.

[Rory Scovel]

Yeah. Yeah, Josh, I think we know Halloween this year.

[Josh Dean]

I did Like Heather Locklear when I was a teenager or. No, I saw me grade school.

[Rory Scovel]

I put Heather Locklear in First Crush territory for sure.

[Podcast Trailer Narrator]

Yeah.

[Rory Scovel]

So.

[Josh Dean]

All right.

[Rory Scovel]

Melrose Place, come on. You know we weren't supposed to be watching that. That wasn't for us.

[Josh Dean]

Heather Locklear, if you're listening, let us know. Two big fans right here. Two your biggest fans.

[Rory Scovel]

Heather, if you're out there, write us, Please, Heather, please.

[Josh Dean]

We'll see you next week.

[Rory Scovel]

Bye.

[Josh Dean]

At the Furry convention.

[Narrator/Host]

Bye.

[Sixth Bureau Narrator]

Bye.

[Josh Dean]

Crimeless is a production of Smartless Media, Campside Media and big money players in partnership with iHeart podcasts. It's hosted by Rory Scoville and me, Josh Dean. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. Emma Siminoff is our associate producer. We're sound, designed and engineered by Blake Brook with support from Ewan Leitramuin. Mark McAdam composed our theme song. The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadas, Matt Sher and me, Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart Podcast and Big Money Players are Jack O', Brien, Lindsey Hoffman and Matt Apodaca. For Smartless Media, the executive producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Richard Corson. Bernie Kaminski is head of production. The associate producer is Matty McCann. A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. Do you have a question, comment or confession for the Crimless team? Email [e-mail] and if you enjoyed Crimeless, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcasts. It helps people find the show and also makes us feel validated. Unless you're mean, in which case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week, Crimeless Nation.

[Narrator/Host]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.