Monkey gangs could actually take over your city

Summary

CrimeLess Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Monkey gangs could actually take over your city
Date: January 21, 2026
Hosts: Rory Scoville (comedian) & Josh Dean (journalist, true crime podcaster)
Podcast: CrimeLess (iHeartPodcasts + Smartless Media)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the bizarre and chaotic events that unfolded in Lopburi, Thailand, when the town was overtaken by rival gangs—not of humans, but of macaque monkeys. What began as a peaceful coexistence exploded into a full-blown "monkey gang war" during the pandemic, raising questions about human-animal coexistence, failed interventions, and the increasingly blurred line between crime, chaos, and comedy. Rory and Josh also draw surprising parallels to a more recent escape of macaques in South Carolina, exploring the (theoretical!) implications of urban monkey takeovers. The episode concludes with a humorous quiz segment: "Monkey or Child Actor?"

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Setting the Scene: Lopburi, Thailand – "Monkey City"

[04:01-08:20]

• Peaceful coexistence: For thousands of years, residents lived harmoniously with local macaques, reinforced by a 2000-year-old legend of monkeys as the town's saviors and symbols of prosperity.
• Tourist attraction: Lopburi built its identity around monkeys, hosting the annual Monkey Buffet Festival with tables piled high with fruits (and disappointing lettuce).
  • Quote (Rory, 09:02): “I can't believe you named all that food. And lettuce was one of them. As though the monkeys were like, you know what actually is my favorite? The flavorless lett. I just can't believe that... the people have just succumbed to the authority of the monkeys.”

2. The Downward Spiral: Pandemic Fallout and the Rise of Monkey Gangs

[08:20-11:57]

• Tourist drought = food shortage: Borders closed, tourists stopped visiting, and food for monkeys dried up.
• Locals feed them junk food: In an attempt to placate hungry monkeys, residents handed out candy and snacks—fueling hyperactivity and accelerated breeding.
  • Quote (Josh, 10:13): “So the sugary snacks just fired them up, gave them more energy to mate at a higher rate than normal.”
  • Quote (Rory, 10:45): “There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys.”
• Monkey gangs emerge: Deprived and increasingly aggressive, the monkeys formed two organized rival gangs, each led by named "bosses," Krau and Yak.

3. Monkey Mayhem: Gangs vs. City

[11:40-15:47]

• Turf wars: Monkeys brawled openly in intersections, commandeered cinemas, and even rode trains to rival territories.
  • Quote (Josh, 12:02): “The town of Lopburi becomes a war zone... They took over buildings like a cinema, which one gang used as a headquarters.”
• Escalation: Normal defenses failed (fake tigers, toy guns); residents couldn't safely walk outside, and property was routinely stolen.
• Monkey mugging: AirPods, iPads, jewelry regularly snatched; school swimming pool repurposed as a monkey toilet.
• Memorable anecdote: “One infamous monkey known as the gym teacher was known for stealing from kids...” (Josh, 14:13)
  • Quote (Rory, 14:13): “And you just gotta wonder, why was that the name? And it's because of the short shorts, the tank top, and the headband.”

4. The Anti Monkey Unit: Strategies and Stalemates

[15:47-21:21]

• AMU formed: The Anti Monkey Unit launches operation "arrest and neuter" to control population growth humanely.
  • Quote (Josh, 17:07): “Their plan was arrest and neuter.”
• Clever monkeys: Smart enough to avoid repeated traps, monkeys retaliated—including a jailbreak to storm the police station.
  • Quote (Josh, 18:36): “Soon after the arrests had begun, about 30 monkeys escaped and stormed the police station.”
• Neutered monkeys tattooed: Marked with a black dot under the nose, earning the nickname "Hitler mustaches.”
  • Quote (Rory, 19:41): “No foresight into, where should we put the dot?”

5. Population, Logistics, and The Ongoing Monkey Refugee Crisis

[21:21-23:29]

• Monkey leaders taken down: Arresting gang leaders (Krau and Yak) caused emotional turmoil among the troops.
• Mass monkey detainment: Over 1,200 monkeys captured, new “cages” built, but budget constraints threaten sustainability.
  • Quote (Josh, 22:13): “We won't have the budget for that. The budget for 4,000 monkeys would be more than 20 million baht, which is $850,000 for food, not including medicine.”

6. Aftermath, Lessons, and Satirical “Solutions”

[23:29-24:57]

• Tourism fallout: Monkey menace damages the city’s brand as “Monkey Paradise”—an existential crisis for heritage and economy.
• Farcical proposals: The hosts riff on possible “solutions,” from parades to luring monkeys to sea on cruise ships.

7. The Twist: Macaque Escape in South Carolina

[30:25-38:45]

• 43 macaques escape: Same species as Lopburi; escape from Alpha Genesis Research Facility in Yamassee, South Carolina.
• Media and official response: Officials urge calm; monkeys "not likely to be aggressive," but residents advised to secure homes.
  • Quote (Rory, 33:02): “The sheriff was quoted saying the monkeys do not pose an actual threat. Please do not Google Thailand macaque monkeys... If they ask for lettuce, run.”
• Legal loopholes: The possibility that escapees may not “belong” to the company if not recaptured; cheeky speculation about macaques lawyering up.
• Monkeys outsmart traps: Clever monkeys evade recapture, returning for food but avoiding cages.
• Host skepticism and humor: Locals claim monkey sightings; company tries to gaslight public (“that’s a squirrel,” not a monkey).

8. Ethical Musings and Cultural Impact

[37:10-38:45]

• Ethical stance: Both hosts gently weigh in against monkey research/testing.
  • Quote (Rory, 37:17): “Ever since seeing Project X, I've been wildly anti monkey research.”
• Viral memes: Escaped monkeys become an internet sensation, perceived more as folk heroes than threats.
• Update segment: All monkeys from the SC escape were eventually recaptured after two months, despite a rare snowstorm.

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Notable Quotes and Moments

• On the monkey war’s absurdity:
  • Rory [22:17]: “It's just absurd. It's absurd, all of it. Everything you've just said to me and our listeners, all of us think that you have made this up... and yet I haven't made up a word of it.”
• On the Anti Monkey Unit's humane approach:
  • Rory [17:13]: “I just want to applaud the humans’ effort to be so humane about every step of this. I mean, not even 60 seconds ago, I said poison all the monkeys.”
• On Satirical U.S. Response:
  • Rory [33:02]: “The sheriff was quoted saying the monkeys do not pose an actual threat. Please do not Google Thailand macaque monkeys... If they ask for lettuce, run.”
• On the monkeys’ resilience and wit:
  • Josh [36:53]: “They're just being goofy monkeys, jumping back and forth, playing with each other. It's kind of like a playground situation here. And they're putting out traps, and the monkeys are out winning the traps, of course, grabbing the food and not getting trapped.”

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[39:55-47:20] Lightning Round: "Monkey or Child Actor"

A playful, rapid-fire game led by producer Lane:

• Hosts are given biographical snippets and asked to guess: is the subject a monkey or a child actor?
• Notable entries:
  • Joe Mendy II: performing chimp with a vaudeville career.
  • Roddy McDowall: real child actor—famous for Planet of the Apes (the meta twist!).
  • Crystal the Monkey: Hollywood’s hottest simian (Night at the Museum, The Hangover).
  • Darwin, the IKEA monkey: viral photo star, now in animal sanctuary.

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[47:21-48:56] Episode Sign-off

The hosts wrap up, encourage listener engagement, and riff on future episode possibilities.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Monkey gangs and Lopburi backstory: [04:01-08:20]
• Pandemic, food shortage, rise of gangs: [08:20-11:57]
• Monkey mayhem escalates: [11:40-15:47]
• Anti Monkey Unit & neutering campaign: [15:47-21:21]
• Leader arrests, city logistics, budget crisis: [21:21-23:29]
• Satirical solution brainstorming: [23:29-24:57]
• Twist: South Carolina escape: [30:25-38:45]
• Monkey or Child Actor game: [39:55-47:20]

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Takeaways & Lessons

• Animal-Human dependence is unpredictable: Even long-standing harmony can be upended by societal changes.
• Well-intentioned interventions may backfire: Feeding with junk food and erratic management escalated the crisis.
• Monkey intelligence and adaptability: Macaques rapidly learn from human behavior, evade traps, and form complex social hierarchies.
• Humor and empathy matter: The absurdity of the story is approached with empathy for both the townspeople and the monkeys.

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Closing Thoughts

This Crimeless episode blends real journalism, wild storytelling, and irreverent comedy to highlight not just how monkey gangs can (sort of) take over a city, but how the best-laid plans of humans and monkeys alike often go hilariously and unpredictably awry.

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“The symbol of Lopburi must stay on—Lopburi must have monkeys. There's no other way. We must leave some of them to make the balance so that humans and monkeys are able to live together.”
— The Mayor of Lopburi ([23:43])

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rory Scoville]

Guaranteed Human.

[Josh Dean]

This is Special Agent Riegel, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

[Special Agent Riegel / Bradley Hall]

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world.

[Narrator]

The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Special Agent Riegel / Bradley Hall]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get podcasts.

[Podcast Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Josh Dean]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Podcast Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scoville]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Podcast Host]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Josh Dean]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Podcast Host]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious mind games.

[Podcast Host]

A new podcast, exploring nlp, AKA neuro linguistic programming. Is it a self help miracle, a shady hypnosis scam? Or both? Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we unpack the story of an unimaginable tragedy that gripped the UK in 2023. But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Rory Scoville]

Evidence has been made sufficient.

[Josh Dean]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapsed.

[Amanda Knox]

What if the truth was disguised by a story we chose to believe?

[Podcast Host]

Oh my God.

[Josh Dean]

I think she might be inn.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to the case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Podcast Host]

My parents have a dog that's penis got chopped off for science. So.

[Josh Dean]

Wait, what?

[Rory Scoville]

Lane, save it for the episode

[Nancy Glass]

Campsite

[Rory Scoville]

Media Smart, Less media.

[Josh Dean]

Have you spent a lot of time around monkeys?

[Rory Scoville]

No, this was the easiest first question I've ever gotten.

[Josh Dean]

But there's a part two of the show.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, sorry.

[Josh Dean]

Okay. Don't be too happy with yourself. There's a part two. How would you stop a monkey gang war.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my. A monkey gang war. You're talking about, like, a different group of monkeys wanting to go to war with another group of monkeys.

[Josh Dean]

Yep.

[Rory Scoville]

This episode is just Planet of the Apes, that's all. Yup. Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape.

[Josh Dean]

Don't dodge the question.

[Rory Scoville]

I feel like the dumbest thing is just to get on the bullhorn and be like, guys, there are so many bananas. You're gonna be fine. You don't need to be like this. I have no idea.

[Josh Dean]

Well, lucky for you, we're gonna answer that question this episode. I'm Josh Dean.

[Rory Scoville]

And I am Rory. And you are listening to Crimeless.

[Josh Dean]

Welcome back to Crimeless, the podcast that celebrates the amazing creativity of the world's dumbest criminals, who are mostly, but not always, human. I'm Justine.

[Rory Scoville]

And I'm Rory Scoville.

[Josh Dean]

This week on Crimeless, we tackle gang violence. The terrifying true story of one popular town in Thailand where two rival gangs took over and made the place inhospitable for tourists and for residents. A once peaceful place where shit really went sideways. Before the pandemic, La Bori, Thailand, was an Eden. But after lockdown, it was basically a no go zone where violent gangs, drunk on power ruled the streets, taking over cinemas and rioting over food supplies. Cops couldn't stop these gangs or reason with them. So what happened? And how did the government end this reign of terror? Also, I should remind you, these were gangs of monkeys.

[Rory Scoville]

Remind us none of us have pictured monkeys till right now.

[Josh Dean]

That's why I asked you the question at the top. You didn't see this coming. I'm guessing you want to hear the story.

[Rory Scoville]

Please continue.

[Josh Dean]

So I'm going to paint the scene for you.

[Podcast Host]

All right.

[Josh Dean]

Your neighborhood has been completely taken over, occupied. You can't walk home from school or work without fearing a monkey attack.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, man.

[Josh Dean]

Your dangly earrings, headphones, your wallet, everything is at risk of being snatched by little monkey fingers. If you venture outside, you are warned to avoid eye contact with monkeys. It's best and safest to travel in groups. You can't go to the movies anymore. That's their theater now. Businesses and neighbors install bars and fencing around windows and doors, desperate to keep monkeys out because they break windows. You're very likely to see hundreds of monkeys fighting in the middle of any intersection, brawling over territory. This is a real thing that happened in Thailand.

[Rory Scoville]

This is so. I just love that bars are still staying open. They're like, get in here and drink

[Josh Dean]

if you can no, those are bars on windows. Although I assume bars are. I assume bars are all.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, restaurants are still.

[Josh Dean]

Otherwise the monkeys have won. Yeah, we will not let the monkeys win.

[Rory Scoville]

Do not make eye contact is my favorite. But.

[Josh Dean]

So this is real. It's a small city of about 60,000 people north of Bangkok known as Lopburi. It's known for its macaque monkeys that live in the city. And its nickname is Monkey City Lane. Let's look at a picture of a macaque monkey. Rory, I want you to describe to the audience what you're seeing here.

[Rory Scoville]

All right, so here for all you listeners at home, the monkey is absolutely adorable. I gotta say, size wise, it does feel like you could take on maybe two at a time at the most if. If you had to try to survive. But I will say, the moment you see a picture of one of them with their mouth open, their jaw, they can get very wide, and they have the most impressive canine teeth I have ever seen. That is terrifying. So if that is attacking you, I mean, you're dead. If you walk outside and. And three of them are like, we're gonna eat you. They're gonna eat you.

[Josh Dean]

Three of them. Oh, man, Three. If only three.

[Rory Scoville]

If only three. But I mean, if we're talking monkey war, we're talking massive amounts. Oh, my God. Like, how do you befriend them?

[Josh Dean]

Luckily for you, I did my research.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my gosh.

[Josh Dean]

So let me just tell you a little about the relationship between this town and the macaque. So this town is. Like I said, it's called Monkey City. The people who live there have lived side by side with macaques for thousands of years. There's a legend, 2000 year old legend, that said the Monkey King and his army helped save a divine princess from the clutches of a demon lord. Since then, Lopburi's monkeys have been symbols of good luck and prosperity. Now, thousands of tourists visit the city every year to see these monkeys. The monkeys are treated like kings. Tourists feed them, pose for photo ops. You haven't been to Lot Bore unless you come home with lots of pictures of yourself and monkeys. Or at least this is the way it used to be. It's a monkey paradise. Humans and macaques have lived together in peaceful harmony for 2000 years.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, God.

[Josh Dean]

But.

[Rory Scoville]

And then some got iPhones and some got androids. And the war continues. Oh, the green bubble.

[Josh Dean]

Let me see how they set the table for this disaster. The city has for a long time hosted the annual Monkey Buffet festival, which is pretty Much what it sounds like. Like it has an opening ceremony that includes performances by dancers in monkey costumes. When the monkeys arrive, hosts remove sheets from the banquet tables, revealing decorative spreads of vibrantly hued fruits and vegetables. The monkeys jump across tables, climb towering pyramids of watermelon, durian, lettuce, pineapple, and more, indulging in the nearly two tons of offerings.

[Rory Scoville]

I can't believe you named all that food. And lettuce was one of them. As though the monkeys were like, you know what actually is my favorite? The. The flavorless lett. I just can't believe that there's this sort of. I mean, I can and I can't, but if they've lived in peace for so long, I guess, naturally, the people have just succumbed to the authority of the monkeys.

[Josh Dean]

Well, they were the. They thought they were friends, but then in 2020, things turned.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Do you have any idea what happened?

[Rory Scoville]

I want to say, Covid. I want to say the election. I know that monkey city and Thailand are very conn. Connected to what's going on politically in America.

[Josh Dean]

They're known for wearing tiny red hats. So the pandemic hit, so that. Of course you have Covid. You're. You were in the neighborhood. So Thailand closes its borders, and there's no tourists who come to feed the monkeys. And also, everyone's locked inside. I don't know what kind of people in the town were responsible for caring for the monkeys, but, like, so monkeys are suddenly on their own, and they were not happy. Not happy.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God. I love this. I mean, I don't love it, but I do. You know what I mean?

[Josh Dean]

They started small. They started stealing from the locals, and the townies tried to appease them by giving them junk food. Oh, not fresh fruits, but, like, candy

[Rory Scoville]

and stuff, but, like, Kit Kats. And they're like, we want lettuce. You know, we want butter lettuce.

[Josh Dean]

Wait till you hear what this did. So the sugary snacks just fired them up, gave them more energy to mate at a higher rate than normal.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Dean]

There are thousands of angry, horny monkeys.

[Rory Scoville]

Man, people's lives are so different in so many different places.

[Josh Dean]

This is not how your pandemic went.

[Rory Scoville]

I was horny. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Were you also living on snacks?

[Rory Scoville]

I was living on Kit Katsu, walking around the house. I love that.

[Podcast Host]

The.

[Rory Scoville]

The thing that you sort of forget is, like, of course the monkeys aren't. They don't know what's going on in the news. No one has told them, hey, the world is shutting down.

[Josh Dean]

I know. They're like, what the hell happened to my snacks?

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, the monkeys aren't going to understand when someone says, hey, no more concerts.

[Josh Dean]

They're like, where's the monkey buffet festival?

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, where's the buffet? Where's the arugula? I'm never gonna lay off the lettuce portion.

[Josh Dean]

You can imagine it's just chaos, right? So you can imagine what happens. Two gangs of monkeys emerge and become rivals, fighting over food and territory. Police identified the leaders of the gangs, mapping out their hierarchy, and named the leaders Krau and Yak.

[Rory Scoville]

Not Caesar. They didn't go with Caesar. Little on the nose, missed opportunity.

[Josh Dean]

Nope. Crow and Yak. And so the town of Lopouri becomes a war zone. Basically entire blocks are off limit to humans because of the monkey. On monkey violence. They took over buildings like a cinema, which one gang used as a headquarters. Someone on Twitter reported that one of the monkey gangs hopped on a train, wrote it two hours in order to search for food. They also fought and dominated the local monkeys there.

[Rory Scoville]

When you say they took over a cinema, is there any part of you picturing the Gremlins where they were like watching a movie? Like, are you picturing the monkeys watching a movie?

[Josh Dean]

Yes.

[Rory Scoville]

The gang that decided to take over the theater is like clearly a little bit more fun. They care about entertainment.

[Josh Dean]

The ones that. The train thing is wild to me,

[Rory Scoville]

it's just like, yeah, two hours just to be like, what do you guys.

[Josh Dean]

Was the train running? Like, did they. They took it over and a monkey drove the train.

[Rory Scoville]

Great question. I just love seeing a monkey politely sitting on a train, just passing time, wearing a fedora and like, you know, just very having a cigarette. Just very old timey movie style train ride.

[Josh Dean]

Well, if it had been an island and humans never came back, you wonder how long it takes before they are. They are just civilized. Right. They're like, they're living in the houses.

[Rory Scoville]

They just take over. Yeah, I mean, they already split into two gangs.

[Josh Dean]

Well, yeah, this is where. So things get worse. Feeding the monkeys wasn't working. They couldn't quell the violence. It only made the numbers stronger. So then locals tried to limit their food, but that also made things worse, of course. Local officials began threatening fines to anyone who fed a monkey outside of a few designated areas. But those feeding areas were dominated by a few troops of highly territorial monkeys. And the rival bands grew hungry and turned to harassing humans. So they're basically realizing that the only way to get food is from humans and they start terrorizing humans, which forces humans to hide from them. They were taking food out of people's hands. One infamous monkey known as the gym teacher was known for stealing from kids.

[Rory Scoville]

And you just gotta wonder, why was that the name? And it's because of the short shorts, the tank top, and the headband.

[Josh Dean]

And he was a little creepy.

[Rory Scoville]

It was the clipboard. Doesn't that one kind of remind you of a gym teacher? Just get up.

[Josh Dean]

Not only did he target kids, he was quick and agile. Known to pull the tranquilizer darts out of his fur and chew on them.

[Rory Scoville]

That's a level of hunger I've never experienced. Can't even enjoy the tranquilizer tries to eat it.

[Josh Dean]

Some shop owners tried warding off monkey shop lifters by putting toy crocodiles and tigers outside the shop. One young girl was spotted walking around the city with a toy gun, pointing at monkeys.

[Rory Scoville]

And did the monkeys. Did they fall for the guns?

[Josh Dean]

I'm gonna guess no. Also, the. Like, the stuffed tiger. No way.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. No, there's no chance.

[Josh Dean]

But that's how desperate people were. The monkeys got stronger and more brazen. They mugged people. They stole AirPods, iPads. They took over a school swimming pool and used it as their giant toilet. Teachers started warning students to avoid eye contact and walk in groups. It was no longer safe to go out alone. In one instance, a woman dislocated her knee after a monkey pushed her over. And a man was knocked off a motorcycle.

[Rory Scoville]

That's so. Just problems in different places. That's so extreme. It's so crazy.

[Josh Dean]

Well, the next time at a party, someone complains about how bad things are, you think you had a bad.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, I don't like the music. Oh, trust me.

[Josh Dean]

So this went on for years, though. We saw it in the news. 2024. We're talking four years after the gang started forming. It started to make news because the city formed what was nicknamed the Anti Monkey Unit. Okay, so now they're about to get serious.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, the AMU. The AMU's in.

[Josh Dean]

All right, so we're starting to get. Now we're halfway through. You've learned what's going on. How do you. How would you stop it?

[Rory Scoville]

I didn't want to go, like, early on. Like, oh, you have these two rival monkey gangs. What do you do? Now that I've got this backstory, I know this sounds dark. I don't really want to kill the monkeys, but do you have to, like, poison the monkeys? Like, what do you. What do you do? How do you regain your ground?

[Josh Dean]

Well, remember, this is a town where they were revered for centuries. So I feel like that's.

[Rory Scoville]

Exactly. But those times have changed drastically. You can't even go see a movie anymore. Here's the thing. Do you think they broke into the cinema, found an old copy of Planet of the Age, and they were like, okay, guys, new plan. Total takeover. It can be done. Look at this documentary we found.

[Josh Dean]

Well, I'll tell you what the Anti Monkey unit did. Their plan was arrest and neuter.

[Rory Scoville]

Wow, arrest.

[Josh Dean]

Okay, so stop the breeding. First and foremost, I just want to

[Rory Scoville]

applaud the humans effort to be so humane about every step of this. I mean, not even 60 seconds ago, I said poison all the monkeys.

[Josh Dean]

Neutering them stops future angry monkeys from being born. It doesn't solve the immediate problem of the actual angry monkeys that are in the cinema.

[Rory Scoville]

I mean, granted, you gotta think about this monkey's reality was like, we come to town, you make a feast for us, we eat it. And now not only is there no feast, you're now hiding in your homes and you won't even talk to us.

[Josh Dean]

And you're shooting us with darts.

[Rory Scoville]

It's. And you're shooting us with darts. The social element in the. In the reality of the monkey, the humans are the jerks. Clearly, they are the jerks.

[Special Agent Riegel / Bradley Hall]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

So it's not hard to understand why they're so angry.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

And now they're getting neutered. They're like, man, you guys have changed. You guys have changed. We are still just monkeys coming to town looking for lettuce from romaine lettuce.

[Josh Dean]

So to round up the monkeys, they baited cages with the monkeys favorite food. Not bananas, something called rambutan, a Southeast Asian fruit. Okay, they caught some monkeys, but not enough word would get around to the other monkeys. When one was caught, they learned not to fall into the same trap. So they're getting smarter, like AI. Soon after the arrests had begun, about 30 monkeys escaped and stormed the police station.

[Rory Scoville]

Yep.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, Planet of the Apes was basically a documentary. I mean.

[Rory Scoville]

I mean, you are up against incredibly smart animals. The evidence has been there throughout history,

[Josh Dean]

and you've now taken away their food.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, exactly. Their survival.

[Josh Dean]

Well, so the cops switched to a more aggressive strategy. Slingshots and tranquilizers. Sometimes two cops would ride on a motorcycle together, one driving and one shooting a slingshot. They reportedly had difficulties as the primate thugs were familiar with tranquilizer guns and would scale tall buildings and houses whenever they came near.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, man.

[Josh Dean]

One conservation officer said, we had to hide our faces and conceal the tranquilizer guns so the monkeys wouldn't see them. But the ones who did get caught got neutered. I guess. People had been sterilizing some of the monkeys for years. I guess the population had always been a problem in this town. But veterinarians set a goal to sterilize 100% of the monkey population. They also tattooed each monkey that had been successfully fit with a black dot, often right under their nose, making the monkeys look like tiny Hitlers.

[Rory Scoville]

No, no foresight into, where should we put the dot?

[Josh Dean]

Lane, don't we have some pictures of this?

[Rory Scoville]

You couldn't give them, like, just a nice beauty mark, like a Liz Taylor kind of just. You had to do it under the nose, but on the cheek and be like, look at these attractive monkeys.

[Josh Dean]

Or on their butts.

[Rory Scoville]

Wow, that dot is so much bigger than I would have ever thought.

[Josh Dean]

So describe what picture we're looking at.

[Rory Scoville]

So this is a monkey that has clearly been tranquilized. I mean, it is out. Eyes are slightly open, but it is definitely in dream world. It has definitely been neutered for sure because it's got the black circle, which is above the upper lip, and it really is the entire space between the base of the nose.

[Josh Dean]

It's a Hitler mustache.

[Rory Scoville]

It is such a perfectly round Hitler mustache. It's such an absurd location.

[Josh Dean]

So this is a new image to conjure, which is hundreds of tiny, sterile Hitler monkeys running around town.

[Rory Scoville]

Yes. Do you think the monkeys were aware they were being sterilized? And they were, like, telling, hey, they're doing some kind of surgery. Something's up, Something's going on.

[Josh Dean]

I don't feel quite as randy as I once did.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

So they also, they. But what they realized what they had to do was to try and get the leaders. They crow and yak. And they initiated a citywide hunt to capture the leaders of the gang. And they were able to get Crow. And I quote one of the stories we read about it. Upon his arrest, cries were heard from

[Rory Scoville]

his subordinates, from Krause.

[Josh Dean]

Like, his deputies and lieutenants were really.

[Rory Scoville]

They got him. They got Crow.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, it's the. I mean, you cut off the head of the serpent, right?

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. And that's exactly what I was thinking, too. So I'm glad you said that.

[Josh Dean]

As of August of this year, police had arrested more than 1,200 monkeys. The prime minister gave the city $1.1 million to build cages. The capacity was about 3,000 monkeys, but with no one else stepping up to take them. The mayor said, my concern is we can provide food for 1200 monkeys. Now, people are still donating food. If we can capture another 3,000, that will be more than 4,000. We won't have the budget for that. The budget for 4,000 monkeys would be more than 20 million baht, which is $850,000 for food, not including medicine.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God.

[Josh Dean]

So you've got a refugee crisis now. Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

That is, man.

[Josh Dean]

It's like a metaphor for America.

[Rory Scoville]

It's just absurd. It's absurd, all of it. Everything you've just said to me and our listeners, all of us think that you have made this up,

[Josh Dean]

and yet I haven't made up a word of it.

[Rory Scoville]

And yet it's all so real. Oh, my God. I know.

[Josh Dean]

You're thinking, why is this not the biggest story in the world? Why was this not dominating the news

[Rory Scoville]

coverage for weeks before 2020? That does sound so fun. You go to town, you get some photos. You're like, look at this. They're just monkeys everywhere. And they hang out and you're just having fun, and, you know, they just want a little bit of food. And they, you know, it's. Everything's fine and peaceful, and then you just go way the other way real quick.

[Josh Dean]

And then, like, chapter three, the monkeys are all sterile with Hitler mustaches, living in cages, and no one can afford to feed them anymore.

[Rory Scoville]

It's. What do you do?

[Podcast Host]

What.

[Rory Scoville]

What do you even do?

[Josh Dean]

I mean, things have quieted down a bit, so it has taken the edge off the town. I guess it's like a temporary fix. It's a band aid on the problem. Yeah, but the other problem is that, like, the town is literally known for the monkeys. So it's causing a tourism problem because people want to come and take pictures with the monkeys, but that, in those innocent times, may be gone forever.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, I don't know how you can transition back to, hey, here's a bunch of food and let's all get along. Yeah, I don't know what it takes. I don't know if you got to have a parade. These aren't solutions.

[Josh Dean]

Parade. Okay, we'll write to the town. I mean, the mayor, his quote is the symbol of love. Lepore must stay on. Lepori must have monkeys. There's no other way. We must leave some of them to make the balance so that humans and monkeys are able to live together.

[Rory Scoville]

You know how many people have just looked at the monkeys and been like, come on, just. We're gonna feed you again. Just, can we go back? Can we just go back?

[Josh Dean]

Well, we'll Go to their website and submit the parade recommendation.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Get a big float of an iceberg lettuce head.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. That's what it's going to take. You're going to have to do some sort of like, hey, here's a cruise ship. We want to make this good. Just come out here. It's all you can eat. There's music, there's going to be a party, there's going to be drinking. What level of drinking do you think? You know, if they're taking over the town, they broke into a pub, they discovered booze.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, that's actually a brilliant solution. You lure them onto a boat.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

You get them a little drunk. You get them a little drunk, and then just.

[Josh Dean]

The boat stays at sea forever.

[Rory Scoville]

Well, I think you lavish them in so much luxury that when you come back, they're like, all right, you guys are. That's. That was pretty cool, what you did with the cruise ship.

[Josh Dean]

Oh, I thought you were proposing we trap them on a cruise ship and it never comes back to port.

[Rory Scoville]

Are you kidding? They're going to take over the ship and come back. They're not going to fall for that. There's no falling for that. They're coming right back or they're going

[Josh Dean]

to end up somewhere else.

[Rory Scoville]

They can, like.

[Josh Dean]

They're like, oh, France is nice.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

We were just a normal island and then just suddenly taken over. Yeah, that's a. That's one of the craziest stories I've ever heard.

[Josh Dean]

All right, well, after the break, I have a second. There's a twist.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh.

[Amanda Knox]

In 2023, a story gripped the UK evoking horror and disbelief.

[Rory Scoville]

The nurse who should have been in charge of caring for tiny babies is

[Josh Dean]

now the most prolific child killer in modern British history.

[Amanda Knox]

Everyone thought they knew how it ended. A verdict. A villain. A nurse named Lucy Letby.

[Josh Dean]

Lucy Letby has been found guilty.

[Amanda Knox]

But what if we didn't get the whole story?

[Josh Dean]

The moment you look at the whole picture, the case collapses.

[Amanda Knox]

I'm Amanda Knox, and in the new podcast the Case of Lucy Letby, we follow the evidence and hear from the people that lived it to ask what really happened when the world decided who Lucy Letby was.

[Podcast Host]

No voicing of any skepticism or doubt.

[Josh Dean]

It'll cause so much harm and at

[Special Agent Riegel / Bradley Hall]

every single level of the British establishment

[Josh Dean]

of this is wrong.

[Amanda Knox]

Listen to Doubt the Case of Lucy Letby on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Special Agent Riegel / Bradley Hall]

China's Ministry of State Security is one of the most mysterious and powerful spy agencies in the world. But in 2017, the FBI got inside.

[Josh Dean]

This is Special Agent Regal. Special Agent Sergeant Bradley Hall.

[Narrator]

This MSS officer has no idea the US Government is onto him. But the FBI has his chats, texts, emails, even his personal diary. Hear how they got it on the Sixth Bureau podcast?

[Josh Dean]

I now have several terabytes of an MSS officer, no doubt, no question of his life. And that's a unicorn.

[Rory Scoville]

No one had ever seen anything like, like that. It was unbelievable.

[Special Agent Riegel / Bradley Hall]

This is a story of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.

[Narrator]

Listen to the 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nancy Glass]

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumprite became the victim of a random crime.

[Rory Scoville]

He pulls the gun, tells me to lie down on the ground.

[Nancy Glass]

He identified Jermaine Hudson as the perpetrator. Jermaine was sentenced to 99 years.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm like, lord, this can't be real. I thought it was a mistaken identity.

[Josh Dean]

The best lie is partial truth.

[Nancy Glass]

For 22 years, only two people knew the truth. Until a confession changed everything.

[Narrator]

I was a monster.

[Nancy Glass]

Listen to Burden of guilt season two on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mind Games Host]

What if mind control is real?

[Josh Dean]

If you could control the behavior of anybody around you, what kind of life would you have?

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotically persuade someone to buy a car?

[Rory Scoville]

When you look at your car, you're going to become overwhelmed with such good feelings.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you hypnotize someone into sleeping with you?

[Josh Dean]

I gave her some suggestions to be sexually aroused.

[Mind Games Host]

Can you get someone to join your cult?

[Amanda Knox]

NLP was used on me to access my subconscious.

[Mind Games Host]

Nlp, AKA Neuro Linguistic programming, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology. Fans say it's like finally getting a ultimate user manual for your brain.

[Josh Dean]

It's about engineering consciousness.

[Mind Games Host]

Mind Games is the story of nlp, its crazy cast of disciples, and the fake doctor who invented it at a New age commune and sold it to guys in suits. He stood trial for murder and got acquitted. The biggest mind game of all, nlp, might actually work.

[Podcast Host]

This is wild.

[Mind Games Host]

Listen to Mind games on the iHeartRadio app, at the podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Josh Dean]

This is crimeless. Now that you know, well, sort of know how to stop a monkey gang war, do you think you could be useful if a gang of macaques tried to take over your city or state?

[Rory Scoville]

Could I be useful?

[Josh Dean]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

No. No. But I will say, I mean, there's. There's some. There's stuff to take away from here. The sterilizing is obviously. I feel, like, the most peaceful, it seems, but, yeah, I don't. I don't know what you would do if you have a soul. And granted, yes, this is coming from poison guy, but if you have a soul, you're going to be like, well, naturally, they're confused as to why everything shifted. I don't know. I don't know what you do.

[Josh Dean]

Well, you may have to worry about this because last week, people may be listening to this long after we record, but in the context of when we're talking Today, last week, 43 macaque monkeys, the very same breed as the ones that taken over Lopbori, escaped from a research facility. Not in Thailand.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, God.

[Josh Dean]

In South Carolina.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God. Where?

[Josh Dean]

Which I believe is your home state.

[Rory Scoville]

That is my home state. Where in South Carolina do we know

[Josh Dean]

the Alpha Genesis Research Facility? Yemen.

[Rory Scoville]

Enough said. I know exactly where that is.

[Josh Dean]

You do? Yamassi. Yemassi, do you know a town I

[Rory Scoville]

don't know how to pronounce. Alpha Genesis Research Facility. Of course I know where that is.

[Josh Dean]

Get a map of you know. You know South Carolina. You tell us.

[Rory Scoville]

I know South Carolina. All right, so not far from Charleston. Not far from Hilton Head Island.

[Josh Dean]

Beaufort. Beaufort. Oh, that's gonna be Buford. Are there any relatives of yours in that vicinity?

[Rory Scoville]

No. I mean, I. I know I have a lot of friends in Charleston. 43 escaped.

[Josh Dean]

So how do you think they got out?

[Rory Scoville]

They. I mean, knowing how smart these monkeys are in Thailand, part of me thinks they quickly grabbed one guard and just like in a movie, quickly put on their clothes.

[Josh Dean]

All 43 inside one outfit.

[Rory Scoville]

They all had on a trench coat. They stood on each other's shoulders. They walked right out of that facility, and they didn't know they were gone for at least a week.

[Josh Dean]

One monkey leader took the opportunity and ran out the door, and the others followed. Journalists flooded the zone, and a CBS News reporter delivered this hall of famer of a question to Alpha Genesis CEO.

[Rory Scoville]

So the reason why they got out was literally monkey see, monkey do. And the CEO answered no further questions. Do you think that caretaker was at home in bed and just rolled over to his wife and he goes, you're not going to believe this. I think I forgot to close the. I forgot to Close the latch. Remember that story I told you about those monkeys taking over that island? I might have just done that to South Carolina.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, if we need to pause so you can call relatives and warn them, I mean, we can take some time.

[Rory Scoville]

Are you guys good? You guys okay?

[Josh Dean]

Well, the town's chief of police said the monkeys were not likely to be aggressive toward humans. They are, quote, very young females who each weigh less than £10.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

They haven't yet been tested on, so they don't pose any infectious disease threat. Well, okay. Officials are urging residents to close their doors and windows and to call 911 if they see a monkey.

[Rory Scoville]

The sheriff was quoted saying the monkeys do not pose an actual threat. Please do not Google Thailand macaque monkeys. And please do not Google macaque monkeys Thailand for any reason. They are fine and they're super peaceful. If they ask for lettuce,

[Josh Dean]

run.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Lock the cinema immediately.

[Rory Scoville]

Do not go to the movies, and make sure you have a lot of bagged salad ready for them.

[Josh Dean]

This is an amazing loophole that makes you, like, maybe these monkeys are brilliant. Some say that the monkeys may have a legal claim to freedom, while Alpha Genesis may have a strong financial incentive to recapture the escape monkeys. Long standing legal doctrines suggest that the 18 monkeys still at large. So they've caught some of them by now. Okay, so we went from 43. Still 18 may not belong to the company as long as they remain free and outside its custody.

[Rory Scoville]

I love that that sentence started with maybe. Maybe these monkeys are kind of smart. And then you went on to explain they've already acquired legal services.

[Josh Dean]

They're like, here's the loophole, guys. Good news. As long as you can stay on the run.

[Rory Scoville]

US 18 monkeys did a little research, and we found out we're allowed to stay out here forever.

[Josh Dean]

I mean, can you imagine, like, if. If they can, like, stay on the. And then start having babies, and then 10 years from now, you're gonna go home to South Carolina. Yeah. And they're gonna be monkeys.

[Rory Scoville]

I can't even imagine meeting someone at a bar whose answer is, what do I do for a living? I work at Alpha Genesis research facility.

[Josh Dean]

What do you do there?

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, you know those monkeys that escaped and took over five towns?

[Josh Dean]

That's my work.

[Rory Scoville]

That's me. I'm the guy who left the cage open.

[Josh Dean]

This actually is not the first time animals have escaped from Alpha Genesis, which houses about 7,000 monkeys for scientific research. Monkeys escape often enough that it's become part of the town's Lore and some locals will even set food outside for the monkeys. This is the largest group of monkeys to ever escape into town. Alpha's CEO, however, a real downer rained on this parade and said many townspeople believe they've seen a monkey. Have in fact, seen a squirrel. I feel like that's classic pr.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. That is the most. Just gaslight the town if you can. Oh, no, That's a squirrel. Okay, so just the town is that there's.

[Podcast Host]

Idiots.

[Josh Dean]

The squirrel opened my door.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, my God. Honey. And another escaped monkey. Oh, sorry. No, that's a horse.

[Josh Dean]

Police in the research facility are using cages, thermal imaging, and pieces of fresh fruit and vegetables to attempt to capture the rogue monkeys. Most of them have been captured, but as of this taping, only eight are

[Rory Scoville]

still on the loose.

[Josh Dean]

Alpha Genesis told CBS News that efforts to recover the remaining monkeys would, quote, continue for as long as it takes.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. How that CEO still has his job and yet makes the town seem like they're morons.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

Why are monkeys always escaping?

[Josh Dean]

Imagine what's being done to them.

[Podcast Host]

Headline that just less than 24 hours ago, Alpha Genesis CEO said employee at center of monkey escape walked off the job and has not returned.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah. And you know what? I want to say it's less about embarrassment and more the monkeys probably killed him.

[Josh Dean]

The monkeys didn't actually go far at all. They're actually staying in the woods right outside the research facility and just playing in the trees. There's a quote here from the CBS News story that says they're just being goofy monkeys, jumping back and forth, playing with each other. It's kind of like a playground situation here. And they're putting out traps, and the monkeys are out winning the traps, of course, grabbing the food and not getting trapped. And then they go back to the top of the trees where no one can get them.

[Rory Scoville]

I like that their natural lifestyle is described as goofy.

[Josh Dean]

They're just.

[Rory Scoville]

This is what they are.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. They're just monkeys being monkeys.

[Rory Scoville]

Look at these silly monkeys. Why? They're not being silly. They escaped. They escaped from a facility they should not have been able to escape from

[Josh Dean]

and arguably should not have been in in the first place, because I don't know how we feel. I don't know if crimeless is. If we take a stance on monkey research.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Not a big fan.

[Rory Scoville]

You know, ever since seeing Project X, I've been wildly anti monkey research.

[Josh Dean]

Or Outbreak starring Dustin Hoffman.

[Rory Scoville]

Or Outbreak.

[Josh Dean]

Well, if we need to end a little early so you can call relatives if you need to get to South

[Rory Scoville]

Carolina you guys good? You guys okay?

[Josh Dean]

We couldn't believe it because we were talking about this story already. And then I became fascinated with the. Because it's become a bit of a meme. The monkeys on the run in South Carolina. Like, it's being covered by lots of people who are amused and want them to stay free. And then I was like, any chance those will be the same monkeys as the ones in Thailand? Oh, my God, they are. They're macaques. So it's just like this is the sequel to the movie, the one. The first one ended with the cruise ship crashing into, like, San Tropez. Right, right.

[Rory Scoville]

And now it's this.

[Josh Dean]

This is the sequel.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Or it starts with someone, you know at the diner in this town saying, well, thank God there's an ocean between us and them.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, they're not going to be able to get here. Dun, dun, dun. Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Then it's the guy rolling over in bed saying, oh, my God, you're not.

[Rory Scoville]

Babe. Babe, wake up. You're not going to believe this. I left every door open and unlocked at the facility tonight.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. I almost was going to stop and wonder, like, was it an accident?

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, and that's why he hasn't been seen.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, it's like the long, long play. Like somebody got hired. It's like a PETA, you know, It's a pretty good plan.

[Rory Scoville]

I like that. The long play.

[Josh Dean]

Greetings, crimeless nation. I interrupt this week's episode with an important update. We record these episodes ahead of time, sometimes far ahead of time. Just in case you are a resident of South Carolina and crime is your primary news source, we felt it was very important to provide you with some critical information about this particular story. Your long regional nightmare is over. It has been over for some time. The last four monkeys from the group that escaped Alpha Genesis have been recovered without casualties. And according to Alpha Genesis CEO Greg Westergaard, the animals were in quote, good health, despite spending more than two months in the wild and surviving an extremely rare South Carolina snowstorm. So to repeat, your brief regional nightmare has ended. And you can stop worrying about finding a macaque in your back seat when you leave. Iggly wiggly. That is all. All right, after the break, our final segment. Lane, what's our final segment this week?

[Rory Scoville]

Lane's games.

[Podcast Host]

It's a head to head. It's a monkey or child actor. So I'm gonna read you a profile of a Hollywood professional. Both worked in Hollywood or entertainment. And you have to tell me whether it's a monkey or A child. All right, so this performer was a young vaudevillian star. By the age of 10, he had his very own theater, drawing in record breaking crowds. On opening day, he had about 45,000 people come to watch him perform. He retired at 14, largely forgotten in the public eye. Lived a normal life. We thinking monkey. We thinking. We think, kid.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm gonna go monkey. I just have to go monkey.

[Josh Dean]

I feel like all of them are gonna make me want to say kid, but it's always going to be, are they all monkeys? I'm also going monkey. I'm going monkey.

[Podcast Host]

You guys are right. It's a monkey. Any guesses on which monkey?

[Rory Scoville]

Which monkey?

[Josh Dean]

Rory, you guessed first.

[Rory Scoville]

I might have misled you to believe that I'm well versed on historical monkeys.

[Podcast Host]

No, this is Joe Mendy ii. He was a male chimpanzee who earned the reputation of greatest performing chimp of all time. Oh. He lived in the Detroit Zoo. Okay, this monkey was a silent film pie. Oh, I just ruined it. It's a monkey.

[Rory Scoville]

The monkey. I think it's a monkey. Is it a monkey?

[Podcast Host]

It's a monkey.

[Josh Dean]

Toddler.

[Rory Scoville]

It's a toddler named monkey.

[Josh Dean]

That's the twist. It's toddler.

[Podcast Host]

This one. Okay, this one. I'll just tell you who it is. His name is Joe Martin. He's an orangutan actor. He would receive letters from all over the world because people thought he was a little man dressed up as a monkey. And he was in charge of opening all his own mail.

[Rory Scoville]

Can you imagine? You're about to send that letter and someone in your family goes, what are you doing mailing a real monkey? And they're like, I'm not an idiot. It's a man dressed as a monkey. That's who I'm sending snail mail to.

[Josh Dean]

My favorite man dressed as a monkey. He opens his own mail. Yeah.

[Rory Scoville]

It will take one month to get there.

[Josh Dean]

All right, Try not to give this one away.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Okay. Okay. This performer began his career in his native country before moving to the US at the start of World War II. Over his long career, he acted in hundreds of stage and screen roles. He never found a partner or had any offspring of his own. He died from lung cancer in Studio City, California.

[Rory Scoville]

There's some curveballs here. You're throwing out lung cancer. We're thinking smoking. We're going to immediately think smoking. Toddler. You know what's cuter than that? But I feel like it's. I think all these are monkey. I think Josh was onto something.

[Josh Dean]

Is It Mickey Rooney?

[Podcast Host]

No, it is Roddy McDowell.

[Josh Dean]

It is a person.

[Podcast Host]

He was one of the few child actors that gracefully navigated the transition into adult actor.

[Josh Dean]

Isn't he in Planet of the Apes?

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. He's best known for his roles in the original Planet of the Apes.

[Josh Dean]

So kind of a hybrid there.

[Rory Scoville]

So I was kind of right.

[Podcast Host]

You're kind of right, yeah.

[Josh Dean]

You get a halfway point. Half point.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. This performer spent much of his young life aboard a luxury yacht. He acted on screen and stage traveled the world. He died a premature death, a heart attack at a young age, likely caused by smoking.

[Rory Scoville]

Oh, that's another curveball. I'm gonna constantly guess. Monkey.

[Josh Dean]

I think because we had a human dying of lung cancer that the smoker is a monkey.

[Podcast Host]

The smoker is a monkey. This is Jimmy the chimp, born in 1952. He was trained by a magician and actor and he actually on his yacht tour, he showed up in Australia and the yacht became known as the Monkey Ship because the locals were so impressed by a smoking monkey.

[Josh Dean]

Don't let the macaques of Thailand hear about the ship.

[Podcast Host]

All right. This iconic performer at the height of her career was subject of many rumors. One of them that she was actually a 30 year old man due to her presence and stocky build. This rumor was so prevalent that the Vatican sent a priest to investigate whether she was who she said she was.

[Rory Scoville]

Wow. Human. Human person.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. I also think Homo sapien.

[Rory Scoville]

I'm going Homo sapien on this one.

[Podcast Host]

Well, this, you're right. It's Shirley Temple. They thought she was a little man.

[Rory Scoville]

What?

[Podcast Host]

They'd also yank her hair because they thought it was a wig.

[Rory Scoville]

I don't think anyone have any issue with the Vatican getting to decide who

[Josh Dean]

better it is who better to check.

[Podcast Host]

Okay. So this performer's breakout role was in a 1997 Disney movie. She was 3 years old at the time. Benjamin Walsh for the New York magazine said her IMDb page is more hit studded than most actors three times her age. I'll give you a hint. She's still acting today.

[Rory Scoville]

Monkey.

[Josh Dean]

I'm gonna go monkey too.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. This is Crystal the monkey dubbed Hollywood's hottest monkey.

[Rory Scoville]

Couldn't agree more.

[Podcast Host]

You might have seen her in Night at the Museum two and Night in the GM one, the Hangover. You know her, you love her. She's Crystal. All right. This young performer is best known for her role as a depression era grifter and humorous sidekick. She befriended Michael Jackson at an early age. While she struggles with addiction and health issues, she's still active today.

[Rory Scoville]

Monkey.

[Josh Dean]

A human.

[Podcast Host]

This is Tatum o', Neal, the youngest person ever to receive an Academy Award in Paper Moon.

[Josh Dean]

I think I'm winning.

[Podcast Host]

I think you are.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, we forgot to keep score, but I think I am.

[Rory Scoville]

No, I remembered to keep score and I am winning.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, we got two more. This young performer is famous on social media. He has over 1.4 million followers on TikTok. He is best known for his iconic gesture called mewing, in which he sucks in his cheeks and puckers his lips.

[Rory Scoville]

Monkey.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah, Monkey.

[Podcast Host]

No, this is. This is an 8 year old named the Rizzler from New Jersey. I actually.

[Josh Dean]

I'm sad to say I know who the Rizzler is. I'm embarrassed to admit I don't.

[Rory Scoville]

I don't know.

[Podcast Host]

Josh, do you want to explain who the Rizzler is?

[Josh Dean]

Rory, I guess you're a better parent than I am. So you've been able to keep a phone out of your daughter's hands, apparently, because my kids watch lots of YouTube stars and the Rizzler comes from that universe.

[Rory Scoville]

Yeah, I don't know any of this stuff. God, I've never felt better about my choices.

[Josh Dean]

All right, last one.

[Podcast Host]

Last one. This public figure got separated from his parents in 2012, and a photo of him went viral online as he wandered around an IKEA parking lot in a big coat. A custody battle ensued after this incident over concerns for his safety.

[Rory Scoville]

Easy. Super easy. Josh, you go first. Super easy, though.

[Josh Dean]

The IKEA monkey. I know the IKEA monkey.

[Rory Scoville]

This is obviously the IKEA IKEA monkey. I agree.

[Podcast Host]

It's Darwin. Darwin, the IKEA monkey. Stylish but illegal. He now lives in an animal sanctuary in Canada. He was at first very shy and under socialized, but now he has a best friend named Maximus, and he likes to play on a jungle gym made from fire hoses.

[Rory Scoville]

Who wouldn't? The durability alone.

[Josh Dean]

I'm pretty sure I won.

[Podcast Host]

I think you won.

[Josh Dean]

We'll have to like. It will take some time for the results to come in. We'll have to have. Yeah, I think polls are officially closed, but it'll take some time.

[Narrator]

Yeah.

[Josh Dean]

Yeah. Crimeless is a production of Smartless Media, Campside Media and Big Money Players in partnership with iHeart podcasts. It's hosted by Rory Scoville and me, Josh Dean. Our senior producer is Lane Rose. Emma Siminoff is our associate producer producer. This episode was written by Emma Siminoff and me, Josh Dean. We're sound, designed and engineered by Blake Rook with support from Ewan Lytramuin. Mark McAdam composed our theme song. The executive producers at Campside Media are Vanessa Gregoriadis, Matt Sher and me, Josh Dean. The executive producers for iHeart podcasts and Big Money Players are Jack O', Brien, Lindsey Hoffman and Matt Apodaca. For Smartlos Media, the executive producers are Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes and Richard Corson. Bernie Kaminski is Head of Production. The Associate producer is Matty McCann. A special thanks to our operations team, Ashley Warren and Sabina Mara. Do you have a question, comment or confession for the Crimless team? Email [e-mail] and if you enjoyed Crimeless, please rate and review the show wherever you get your podcast. It helps people find the show and also makes us feel validated. Unless you're mean, in which case keep it to yourself. We'll see you next week. Crimeless Nation.

[Podcast Host]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Rory Scoville]

Guaranteed Human.