← Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
Cho Chang & the Cost of Emotional Intelligence
01:10:43
She was the first girl Harry Potter called his "girlfriend." But, she was also a seeker, Cedric's date, a defender of her best friend, a member of Dumbledore's Army, and the only person brave enough to feel all the feelings when Cedric was taken. In...
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- [00:00]
Professor Julian Womble
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Professor Julian Womble
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- [00:06]
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- [00:10]
Professor Julian Womble
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- [00:23]
Professor Julian Womble
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- [00:30]
Howie Mandel
Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie do it Gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow $267 million gaming in an epic Global Gaming league video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody.
- [01:00]
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- [01:35]
Professor Julian Womble
Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble and today it's not my time, it's Cho time. I'm sorry. And today we're going to be talking about Cho Chang. I'm sorry. The joke presented itself and I said, who am I to deny the joke a moment? And so I got it out of the way early. It will not happen again, I promise. It was just something that I thought would be a bit of a gag and it wasn't. Well, some of you might laugh and if you did, that's good. And if not, well, then it wasn't for you. Okay, It's a little bit high brow. Okay. It was a little bit. A little bit intellectual. And so if that doesn't work for you, then it doesn't, and that's okay. There will be other jokes in this episode. That will. Okay. Anyways, anyways, we are talking about Cho Chang today and I am really excited because I think that again, Cho is one of those characters that we meet. And I know I should say this before we begin, we don't actually know that Cho is half black. Many of the sources on the online spaces and places have a lot of conjecture about whether she is or not, with some of them leaning more towards the idea that she is half blood, if for nothing else. Because we know she's not Muggle born and they know that because they know that she's been playing Quidditch since she was six years old and talks about her mother working in the Ministry. And so there are a lot of like, kind of contextual clues that let us know that she was brought up in the magical world. That said, we don't know that she's not pureblood. Although I just am personally of the mind that purebloods always make themselves known. Like, it is rare that you're gonna run across a pureblood who's not gonna tell you they are pureblood one way or the other. Right. Like, I just keep thinking of Ernie McMillan being like, My blood is pure. That Basilisk isn't coming after me. And it's like, right. Like the pure blood girlies are obsessed with the notion of making sure that it is known that they are pure blood. And so without many of the clues that we might want, I'm assuming, and with the reality that statistically most of the people in the magical world are half blood, it feels like a fair bet to assume that show is half blood. If you don't like that, I'm sorry. Also, simultaneously, concurrently. And what are we gonna do? I'm recording the episode right now and you're gonna get it. So I guess we just have to take it for what it is and say that's what she is. Anyways, anyways, moving on. I'm excited to talk about Cho Chang because she is not the first girlfriend that we've talked about as it pertains to Harry. However, she is one that there's a lot for us to think about because the trauma of it all, the madness of it all, the Cedric Diggory of. And so I'm really excited because you all really brought it as you often do in the open ended responses on the survey. And I can't wait to dive into some of these questions with you all. Have you ever wondered whether Cho, the girl who Harry couldn't stop staring at from across the Quidditch pitch, was actually ever written as a person, or whether she existed purely as a projection for for a teenage boy who didn't know the difference between grief and attraction. Or whether standing by Marietta, a friend who betrayed the da, who was permanently disfigured by a jinx who the narrative coded as a villain made Cho a bad person, or the most loyal friend we have in the series. Or whether Cho was the first Asian girl many readers ever encountered in a major fantasy series. And whether the text knew what to do with that or simply didn't try we are getting into all of it today. Sorry I had a big concert this weekend and so the music hasn't left me. And you know what also hasn't left me? The bop. It never leaves me. It's like Voldemort on the back of Quirrel's head, just with me all the time. And it's with you because what once you bop, the fun don't stop. So get ready to bop in three, in two, in one. Let's bop. We do something under. Sam, I hope you danced like for real. We had a fake summer here in the United States for many of us, particularly those of us on the east coast. And then we went right back to like a weird winter situation and dancing we needed at this point to warm our bones. For those of you who don't have to endure that I'm jealous and also happy for you. Welcome back y'. All. Welcome to those of you who are joining us for the first time, those of you who are catching up, those of you who have been with us from the jump of it all, from the Molly Weasley of it all, thank you so much for joining us for this episode. To those of you who joined us on Patreon for the post episode chat for our Black History Month episode. Speaking of Patreon, please feel free to join us there. Post episode chat you can join at the end of every episode. Normally when you're hearing it, it is up patreon.com criticalmagic theory it's there. It's free. For those of you who just want to join us for the post episode chat or if you want to be nosy and just see what the girls are saying, ME thinks that this episode will yield an interesting conversation about the one and only Cho Chang because some of y' all had some really hot takes. Okay. If you want to join our Patreon as a paid subscriber, you can do so as an outstanding OWL where you get ad free episodes. Some of you have been in my DMs talking to me about these ads. I'm sorry, y', all, but like, we gotta pay for this podcast somehow. You know what I mean? You get it. You understand in this economy, it's gotta happen. And I'm so sorry if the ads aren't what you want, but we gotta pay these bills. But if you don't want to do that, you can pay $3 a month and you get ad free episodes. You can also join as a deep diver and you pay $5 a month and you get bonus episodes. And you also get access to the chronic overthinkers, which I'll get to in a second. We meet and you can watch that meeting even if you can't join us because you're not a chronic overthinker. But if you want to be a chronic overthinker, you can join $10 a month. And we meet once a month and we get together and we chit chat. They get the episodes early. Deep divers also get ad free episodes and also bonus episodes. But if you join as a chronic overthinker, you also can join our conversations on the discord, which deep divers and chronic overthinkers also have access to. Anyways, this wasn't meant to be an ad for that, but there are options available for you if you'd like to join us. If that is not a financial possibility for you, also fine. Tell a friend. Talk about it on social media. I love it when you all post about episodes on like Instagram. And I always reshare because it always means so much to me that the episode is speaking out to you. So if that's your vibe, feel free to do that as well. All press is good press, especially when I'm not doing anything too bad or crazy. So. So let's do that. You can also support the podcast by buying merch. CriticalMagictheory.com, click the merch store. Boom. We are in the midst of still collecting funds to send out to charities. I have to go and look and see what charities will be our next ones. But there are specific drops that you can see on the merch store that is specifically for the purposes of donating and allowing the privileges and the bounty that many of us have access to to be given to those who are less fortunate in many different ways. The next episode is going to be on Dean Thomas. Now here's the thing. I told you if we did an episode on Dean Thomas that I wanted you all to show up and show out. I know that many of us are busy. I know that sometimes we forget. But I have been getting heckled, okay, by many of you about wanting this Dean Thomas episode. So I'm trying to give it to you. But I need responses on that survey. So even if you've never filled out a survey, even if you're just in it just for a good time, you can fill out the six questions and you don't even have to write any sort of like open ended anything. But we need to show up for Dean. Because you all told me that we should do a full episode, even though I was skeptical. And truth be told, I'm still. I'm still skeptical. So the Patreon will be available to you? No, the survey will be available. Well, I guess the Patreon is available to you, but the survey will be available to you on Patreon on Thursday and everyone else will get it on Friday. And if you follow me on social media but not on Patreon and you're waiting for the link to drop there, don't do that, honestly, because many of you end up missing it because algorithms. You know what I mean? Anyways, I want you all to show up for Dean. He was done dirty by the author. He will not be done dirty by the critical magic theory community. Okay? Okay. I'm glad we had this talk. I didn't mean to get so stern. Look what you all made me do.
- [12:02]
Howie Mandel
Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team take on Gilly The King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match. And against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody.
- [12:32]
Whimsound Smart Speaker Advertiser
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- [13:02]
Howie Mandel
U n D hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team Take On Gilly The King Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody games.
- [13:49]
Professor Julian Womble
When I had to think of my favorite episode with Cho Chang, I was kind of confused because I was like, we don't really get a lot of Cho, and then we do get her in order of the Phoenix. It's kind of like, girl, there's a lot going on. You're in the midst of trauma. What's there to like? But then I remembered when we first meet Cho in prison of Azkaban, when Harry first meets her on the Quidditch pitch. And I was like, oh, I like that show. I remember her. It's the Gryffindor Ravenclaw match in Prisoner of Azkaban, and Cho is not there to lose. She is a seeker and a really good one. I love that Harry, like, recognizes that moment, and she knows exactly what she's doing. She is super, super, super intentional and competitive. And she doesn't do what a lot of the what we see a lot of the other, like, boy seekers do, which is like, you know, bump you and like, or try to, like, get Bludgers to thrown at. You know, she, like, distracts Harry. She pretends to be going in one direction, and then she doesn't. And then she, like, swerves around and she just, like, keeps him busy so he can't focus on the Snitch. And I think it is so smart. And I love that because it's like, there's a way in which I really enjoy this moment with her. And I, you know, as a person who really enjoys when people are good at things and also really, really smart and strategic and manipulative in this way. Right? Like, I really love this moment with Jo because she knows that she's going up against a really good seeker in Harry, and she knows that she has to be the one to kind of if she wants to win the game, she has to. He's the key, right? Like, he is the chosen one before he was the chosen one. And there's a way that she is so adept at saying, like, I know what I have to do. I'm going to distract you, and I'm gonna make you think this, and I'm gonna make you do that. And it's interesting because we spend a lot of time talking about the houses and the traits and all of these things. And I really think it's fascinating to think about how they show up in the way that Quidditch is played. And I think the strategic nature of Cho's engagement with Harry in that match, the only one that we really get to see her play in and the only time I think, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I know you will because you all love to tell me when I'm wrong, but that this is the only time we get to see a woman seeker at Hogwarts at the very least. And so the idea that we get to watch her do this in a very different way, it's something that I really, really like. And I'm not gonna hold you. I kind of get it, Harry now, like as a 30 something year old man, I'm like, yeah, I think we need a little bit more detail. But I can see why you would be like, oh, actually I'm kind of into this. But then what's annoying about it is that he ultimately is, you know, goes to the place of like, she's hot, which go off Queen. We love to see it, right? Because in this moment we get to see someone who's actually competent and hot and a woman in this economy from jkr. That's a gift and we have to take it. But I do think that, like, there is a way that I understand Harry's crush, I understand the origin story of it. Everything else that comes after that is annoying because I'm like, you didn't even try to get to know this person. And then you just were like, I'm gonna take her to the ball. And then she didn't go. And then you were like, grr, I'm mad. And then everything happened in order of the phoenix and we don't even need to get into all of that. But this moment I really love a lot because I think it really does show us who Cho is when she's not on the arm of another guy, which is really when we get to kind of engage with her. Like we see her in the train with her girlfriends and they're giggling. We see her, you know, with Cedric, we see her when Harry asks her to the ball. But this moment, this first moment we meet her is when we really get a sense of like, who she is and what she's about and she's not to be trifled with. And she is that girl. And I absolutely Love that. For her, for us, for Harry. He just couldn't handle it. Alexa, play Bootylicious by Destiny's Anyways, you get what I'm saying? If you listen to the beginning of that song, you'll understand the reference. Anyways, I'm just really trying to get you all to get your, like, early aughts late 90s literacy up.
- [18:52]
Howie Mandel
Hey, it's Howie Mandel, and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie do it Gaming team take on Gilly The King and Wallow. Two, six, $7 million gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody games.
- [19:28]
Professor Julian Womble
When asked what word best describes Cho Chang, the top three words were loyal, traumatized, and then there was like a confluence of words. Teenager, emotional, confused. Okay, I think I can work with this. Loyal was the top word by a wide, wide margin. And I think that there's a lot of ways in which people were thinking about the way that choir was loyal to Marietta. And I completely agree with that. And I also love that we have this word, which is tends to be connected to Hufflepuff's described for Ravenclaw, which is a point that many have brought up in terms of, you know, why the housing system is not the best in terms of the way that it's structured. Because you can be all of the things and end up in one house. Right? So. And how do we reconcile that? But that's not this conversation. This is not a sorting hat episode. Okay. We should make a T shirt. That's how many times I've said this is not a insert blank episode. And it's just like a list of all the episodes that it's not. Anyways, just throwing it out there for y' all to think about. I do think she's loyal, and I think even in the moments where we don't agree with the loyalty, she's still loyal. And I love that for her. And yeah, she's traumatized. I think literally everyone is traumatized by Cedric Diggory's death. And if they claim that they're not, that's absurd. Now this last bit. Teenager, emotional, confused. Again, I don't think this is confined to Cho Chang. They're all teenagers. They're all confused because they're all disasters. Because they're all teenagers. I want those of us who are not teenagers to cast our minds back. If you are a teenager and you feel attacked by this, just give it 10 years. You'll look back and you'll see it. If you are not a teenager, don't look back because you've already seen it. You've shivered because you said, oh God, I don't want to go back to that moment. I don't want to go back to that place. Please, please, please don't. Don't do that. But I think, like, she's allowed to be. And I think that this is the thing that gets me about Cho is that, yeah, she is traumatized. And by virtue of that trauma, she gets to be emotional, she gets to be confused. I think that what we as readers experience so much in these books is people who have an unhealthy obsession with pretending like they are unaffected by things. All the while we get a whole book dedicated to Harry having a full on breakdown, which is warranted because he saw Cedric die. But let's not forget that, like he brought Cedric's body back and everybody had to gaze on this body. Right? Like, everybody. So like the trauma isn't just confined to Harry and yet somehow we watch all of these characters just kind of move on from it as if, like it never happened. And, and that's crazy work to me. I'm always so confused because I'm like, but you didn't see him die, but you saw the body and somehow you're just good, you're just fine. Yeah, like that was Cho Chang's date to the Yule Ball. I won't call him her boyfriend because I. That is interesting to think about. Like they went out to a ball. I don't, I don't know how we define. We're going to get to that when one of the, we get to one of the questions. But like teenager emotional confused. Yeah, to me that's tied directly to traumatized and warranted. Like I was emotional and confused as a teenager without. Well, I mean, there's trauma, but it wasn't like the dude who took me to the ball showed up dead because the darkest wizard of all time came back, got his body done, killed him because he was trying to kill the other dude who also likes me. Yeah, like that. My teenage years weren't rife with that kind of thing. If yours were. I really hope you're talking to someone about that because Cho should have been talking to someone about that. She's not though. She's trying to navigate it the best she can with very little support from a lot of people because everyone's pretending like it didn't happen for one reason or another. So yeah, loyal. Absolutely. Because she really held it down for Marietta. And let me tell you something I wouldn't have. Huh? You mean she Now I will say this and this is not a Hermione episode. I don't agree with Hermione's methods. I don't like the non consensual usage of a spell to mark someone because they made a decision. I don't like that. But I also don't like that Marietta sold out the da. And I can hold those two things in conversation. Can you? If you can't meet me in the post episode chat, we can chit chat about it. You see. Patreon.com criticalmagictheory See me there. Traumatize Isn't everybody Isn't everyone Teenager Emotional? Confused? We've all been there. Like I think that the thing that really gets me is that we are invited by the text to not see that as legitimate. Despite the fact again that Harry James Potter is running around for the entirety of Order of the Phoenix on some confusion teenage angst as a result of his trauma. And it's seen as so legitimate. Cho Girl, I'm with you. Stanwithchoe justiceforto Confused, emotional and traumatized with choir. That last one's too long, but you get it.
- [25:27]
Howie Mandel
Hey it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team take on Gilly the King and wallow two six seven's million dollars gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody.
- [25:57]
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- [26:43]
Professor Julian Womble
For this episode's arithmancy lesson we we had 237 responses as always, our first question was is Cho Chang a good person? About 81% of us said yes, 3% of us said no and about 17% of us said don't know. Someone wrote Cho is hated on because of Harry's emotional immaturity. He was interested in her in a very superficial way and ran off the moment Cho wanted to talk about something meaningful. She did nothing wrong. She is just a young girl whose quite short term boyfriend got murdered and tries to live and process trauma and we are guided by the author to see her as vapid or bothersome. Oh, everything about her portrayal makes my blood boil. Someone else wrote Cho Chang always felt underwritten to me, less a fully realized character and more a projection of Harry's grief and attraction. He puts her on a pedestal almost entirely because of her looks and what she represents emotionally, not because the text shows intellectual curiosity or Ravenclaw like depth. We're told she's a Ravenclaw but we're rarely shown curiosity, creativity or insight. Instead she's written as reactive, overwhelmed and understandably self focused after Cedric's death, yet the narrative never gives her room to grow beyond that. She isn't malicious, but she is shallowly developed which makes her come off as vapid rather than complex. And another person wrote I think she gets a raw deal. She was just kind of used as fodder for Harry to have a girl but it was never going to be a big deal. She was just used as a plot device and a sad way. It's my. Just a little extra for you y'. All. I'm not gonna even disagree with anyone. Yes, Cho Chang is absolutely a plot device. Yes, she is absolutely, very very shallowly written but she's a good person. Like we have enough information based on what we have presented to us to make the assumption and the assertion that she is not a bad person. She's not even somewhere in the middle. Like we see her at the end ready to help Harry find out about the diadem. The what? The diadem. Am I Crabbe or Goyle about Ravenclaw's diadem? And I think that that and we which means she comes back, right? And she's fighting in the battle of Hogwarts, which for many of us is a very strong metric for how we're understanding her morality. And I think it's safe to say that she's a good person. I think it's not. It doesn't feel hyperbolic to highlight the reality that yes, like in spite of all of the things that transpired with regard to Cedric's death. Cho is there in the end. And even if she only showed up, and we don't have any evidence of this, but let's just go on a limb and say she only showed up because she wanted to avenge Cedric, she's still good, she's still battling evil. She is not being neutral, she's not being complicit. She's actively engaging in behavior and that is trying to better the world by virtue of ruin, of, of bringing down Voldemort. And even then, even if we take the battle of Hogwarts out, what we get from her is a level of compassion for her friend. She seemingly feels bad when Harry asks her to the ball and she can't go with him because she's already said yes to Cedric. Like, there's nothing in here that suggests any sort of malicious ill content in any way or anything that she's gonna. Anything that's bad. So I'm, I, I'm 1,000% on board with yes, she's a good person. And I, and I'm wondering, you know, we have about, what did I say 17% or so? 18% maybe? Yeah, 17% of people who said they don't know, what are we needing? What are we looking for? I mean, I know we don't know a lot about her character and she is underdeveloped, there's no denying. But what we do get in the text in. No, I mean, she's in the DA for goodness sake. I mean, there's nothing that we get that would suggest that she's anything but a good person. I understand that our bar for hero can be high for some of us, but for a good person, I have questions. Maybe you just said that so that you could rail against jkr. Understood. Relatable, I get it. But I think for all that we're shown of her, it feels reasonable to say that Cho Chang is a good person. I don't feel crazy for saying that. It doesn't feel like. Is it a stretch? Is it a. I mean, do we not, do we, do you all really believe we don't have enough information? Am I just making that up? Meet me in the post episode chat because am I making, am I making it up? Am I the problem? Am I the drama? Is Cho Chang a good friend? Admittedly, I did not think that this question was going to be as chaotic as it was, however, simultaneously, concurrently. And it turns out there's a little bit of chaos going on here. 62% of us said, yes, Cho is a good friend. 15% of us said, no, she's not a good friend. And about 23% of us said, don't know. Someone wrote, cho is a great friend. Harry and her's almost relationship ended because she chose to have empathy for her friend rather than turn against her like the others in the da this is especially significant due to the fact that show is often described as attractive and well liked. Marietta being scarred by Hermione's jinx spell would be the perfect excuse for Cho to ditch her and keep her popularity status. But instead she chooses to hang out with her. Rare for a teenager, especially a pretty female Teenager. Written by J.K. someone else wrote, I said yes to her being a good friend because she stands up for Marietta. Whether that was the best thing to do is another matter. But she was trying to. Someone else wrote she was on her bestie's side, even if she did quote, unquote, something wrong, which she actually did not. And Hermione should get more hate for the mutilating, for mutilating another student for life. If Hermione was smarter, she would have made all the DA members sign the paper and then threaten them with consequences. But no, she was focused on revenge. But anyways. But anyways, that's written down as female relationships are hatred are hated on. Rather hated on by the author. I'm not surprised that Cho standing by her friend's side was considered bad rather than her taking Harry's side. And another person wrote, I think Cho's relationship with Marietta is complicated. We only see her in the aftermath of trauma, and trauma changes how people show up. Yes, she pressures Marietta into the DA and that's not great. But we don't know who Cho was before Cedric's death. I'm hesitant to define her whole character by how she behaves at her lowest emotional point. My goodness, it's my turn. Yes, it is. I personally think that Cho is a good friend. And I think that part of the reason why that's the case is like, yes, of course she didn't want, you know, Marietta didn't want to join. But I also think that we have all been that friend, okay? We've all been that friend who has wanted to do something. And our bestie's like, no, I don't want to do that. And we're like, oh, my gosh, please just come. Like, it could be fun. We could have a good time. And our besties are like, oh, my God, whatever. I'll do it if it Means you'll just shut up. We've all been that friend. And if you don't think you've been that friend, ask your best friend. I personally have been on both sides of this. There was a time in Toronto, my friends wanted to go to the club. I had already been to the club the night before, and they wanted to go back, and I didn't want to go back, and I was so annoyed, but I went back anyway. And do you know what happened when I went back the second time? I could have been at the hotel bar, and at my hotel bar is where Beyonce's dancers were all staying. I could have been at the hotel bar with Beyonce's dancers, and I went out with my friends. Anyway, I'm still not over it. I'm mad about it, but I went because I'm, what, a good friend now? That means Marietta's a good friend. Yes. But I also understand what Cho was doing, and I don't think that Cho making that request makes her a bad friend. I think it's a thing that friends do. I think that the fact that she then stands up for Marietta and names the madness, absurdity, foolishness, and absurdity. I said it twice because it needs to be said twice, of Hermione's spell on Marietta and the fact that Harry is so ugh, Harry. That he doesn't see how problematic that is. Forget consent. You marred a girl and you don't know the circumstances by which she was led to have to betray the DA like, no, I'm so sorry. It is. It's so unreasonable, and it's really messed up that there are people who would be like, I actually wanted Cho to be mad at her friend enough to not care about what happened to her. And especially because I'm like Cho, it probably feels guilty because Marietta didn't even want to join my friends did not feel guilty about me missing Beyonce's dancers at the bar, though. And the thing is, is that we were in town to see Beyonce, like, the opportunities that could have come out of that. I'm very charming with the martini in hand, but I don't want to get distracted. The reality of the situation is, is that I understand both sides of the. Of the. Of the argument, both Marietta's and Cho's. But I think that the fact that Cho stood by her friend enough to be like, what Hermione did was t rash is a good sign for me. I think that she invited Marietta, even though she was hesitant because of the nature of things. Right the economy of things. But at the end of the day as well, Marietta is a full grown person of life. Who could have said, no, I'm not going at all? And she went anyway. I'm never going to remove anyone's agency and blame someone else's for this. For decisions that were made by others, but chose standing by Marietta, for me, you're a good friend. Calling out the madness of Hermione Jean Granger for me, good friend. I think the fact that Cho is so heartbroken over what happened to Cedric, I think that they were probably friends, that is kind of a. I mean, I guess it's not a prerequisite to be in, in some sort of relationship with someone. But I would say that, you know, you even if you date someone or you go out with them once, that doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to be like super heartbroken over what happened to them. I mean, murder is obviously a problem, so you probably would be sad. But like she was distraught, which suggests that she had a really decent relationship with Cedric. And in that relationship, I'm assuming, but like friendship has to be part of that. You're spending time with someone like you build. It's kind of a built in thing. Not always, but I'm assuming here that at least played some part. That her care and concern for him wasn't completely and utterly built out of just a physical attraction. That there was some sort of emotional connection that they had with one another. And so to that end, like the way that she feels and the, and how sad she is. Right. The level of empathy and emotional attachment that she had to him and the trauma of his death, like that suggests to me that there is a true friendship that was there or at least a connection that would have made its way to friendship had he been able to make it there. I think that Cho's a good friend. I think that the fact that Cho shows back up at the, the Battle of Hogwarts, I think the fact that Cho is willing to go and show Harry. The thing about the diadem, I know it's called diadem. Relax, everyone chill out. It's called a bit. Ever heard of it? The fact that she was willing to do that even after he showed his ass to her. Now he didn't. Not physically, no, not literally. Everyone relax. To turn the phrase when he acted like a jerk because she was emotional about Cedric and yes, like things got lost in communication, but anyways she was willing to help him. Okay. Now maybe people will say this makes her more of a good person than a good friend. Okay, perhaps. But I think that like to be in relationship with people in a way that is not romantic and to care enough to try to help them in the way that she was trying to help Marietta and to help Harry. And I think even in the kind of, you know, in her desire to quote, unquote, date Harry, I think it was all in an attempt to connect with him on a deeper emotional level about the trauma that they both experienced and the losses that they had at the hands of Voldiva. Say what you will, say what you want. I think she was a good friend. That's what I think. I think she was a good friend. Why did my voice get so high? Anyways, we're moving on.
- [41:11]
Howie Mandel
Hey it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team take on Gilly the King and Wallow267's million dollars gaming gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner, plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody
- [41:40]
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- [42:11]
Howie Mandel
Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my Howie do it Gaming team take take on Gilly the King and Wallow 267's million dollars gaming in an epic global gaming league video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody games.
- [42:43]
Professor Julian Womble
Is Cho Chang a good Ravenclaw? About 48% of us said yes, about 8% of us said no and about 44% of us said don't know. This is the highest rate of uncertainty that we have in the survey someone wrote, I don't believe that Ravenclaw is the quote unquote smart house but rather the house for people who love knowledge for knowledge's sake. Under that definition, I don't really know if Cho is a good Ravenclaw. We don't get to know her well enough. However, I did answer yes because I won't have anyone questioning my girl's intelligence. Although it isn't given much attention compared to her emotions, Cho does show a sharp perceptiveness and not just because she's a seeker. My favorite instance of this is early on in her date with Harry. It's funny, isn't it? Said Cho in a low voice, gazing up at the picture of the Death Eaters. Remember that when Siri. Remember that when Sirius Black escaped and there were Dementors all over Hogsmeade looking for him. And now 10 death eaters are on the loose and there are no Dementors anywhere. This is the kind of thing that Hermione would normally notice for Harry. Cho is astute about the political landscape that has brought Umbridge to the school and makes her own observations about it. Someone else wrote as a seeker she had to rely on tactical thinking to tail Harry who had a massive technical advantage with his Firebolt. Producing a corporeal Patronus Swan at The age of 16 is a feat of extraordinary focus and mental discipline traits that define the best of her house. It's my turn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know why I keep adding things on at the end. I think that again, we really don't know a lot about Cho. But what we do know and what we are able to see and glean and understand is the fact that she has enough emotional wherewithal to be able to clock Hermione's madness to be able to spend a time trying to create a connection with someone who she believes is the only person who can truly understand the loss that she's experience experienced in the form of Harry Potter. Now listen, it gets a little warped because Harry's attracted to her and I'm sure she finds Harry attractive too. And so sometimes those things get mixed up and that doesn't just happen to children, that happens all the time with adults as well. So like I'm not gonna even falter on that or say that she lacks emotional intelligence because that's just the brain doing what the brain does sometimes. And it's really, really difficult when you are in a space where you can't tell which way is up because you are drowning in your own sense of depression and anxiety and. And. And. And misunderstanding and concern and fear and all of these things that she's trying to navigate. And yet at the same time, she is aware enough to say, we do. I should join the DA because we do need it. She's able to form enough of a. She's able to form a patronus, which requires a lot of focus. She's able to be present in a certain way and try to make these connections with people and try to navigate her emotions and feels comfortable enough crying and being truthful about where she's at emotionally. And that doesn't count for nothing. And I think that sometimes when we think about the notion of intelligence or awareness or curiosity, we tend to forget that emotions matter here, Right? Like, we spent a lot of time talking about, you know, the brilliance of all these other men, people of life, but I think it is not inconsequential to think about the fact that emotional intelligence is still intelligence. And when we juxtapose her to Harry, right. One of these things is not like the other. And so I think that she is a good Ravenclaw. And I think we can leave room for the fact that sometimes intelligence manifest outside of books, Right? Like, that was one of the big critiques that we had that. Or that you all had of me and other people's definitions of ravenclaws, Right? And I think we spent a lot of time talking about the notion of curiosity and the ins and outs of it and the ebbs and flows and the goods and the bads. But I think at the end of the day, something else that matters is emotional intelligence. And when we think about, you know, what it means to be a Ravenclaw, I personally like the idea of rewarding and believing that Cho deserves to be there because of all of the other, you know, mental and, you know, intellectual acumen, but also because our girl knows how to read a room. She knows how to explain what she's feeling. She is in touch enough with her emotions to allow them to be what they are and not to hide them. And that there is a level of emotional curiosity because she's curious about where Harry is at, what he's going through, how he's navigating it, how he's dealing with it, what he's doing, what are the strategies that he's employing. Maybe she can employ them, too. And at 16 years old, hello. Like, yeah, maybe some of the things get lost in translation, but at the end of the day, there is something very, very, very amazing, exceptional even. About the fact that Cho is willing to do that. And it's interesting because in the books, right, like, Hermione makes this out to be something that's just like something that girls do and maybe some girls do, but Ms. Hermione Jean Granger is not one of them. This isn't a Hermione episode. But, like, girl, you weren't thinking enough about people's emotions when you decided to Marietta's face or put Rita Skeeter in a jar. Sis. So I'm not going to give the level of emotional intelligence that's displayed by Cho to everybody. I do think that that is worth it, and I do think that that would be worth it to be in Ravenclaw House, because I think curiosity is not confined to the mind or at least to educational pursuits, and that emotional curiosity matters in a lot of ways, particularly in moments of high stress and anxiety and show is there trying to figure this thing out, trying to navigate it, and inviting Harry to do the same. And he's like, I don't like that. So I think she is a good Ravenclaw. Maybe not for the reasons that you all might think. You might want to fight me on it. You know where to find me. I want to have a really good Prof. Response episode. So give me a lot of stuff to work with if you feel so inclined. But for me, I think she's a great Ravenclaw. And I love that this is a different side of Ravenclaws that we don't necessarily attribute, right. That we can add some nuance and some complexity to the idea of what it means to be a good member of that house. Okay, y', all, I know what you all are gonna say, and if you yell, just make sure that you're in a safe space to yell. Okay, the next question is, is Cho Chang a good half blood? 38% of us said yes. 10% of us said no. 52% of us said don't know. Someone wrote Professor Directed directly to me. Cho's blood status is never specified anywhere in the books, Pottermore or Games. I was flabbergasted by this question that's called Chaos because I know everything there is to know about Cho and I never knew her blood status. This question is impossible to answer on that front, but I will answer in the spirit of how you usually ask this question. We don't know to what degree Cho fights against the Pure Blood regime in the Ministry, but we do know she puts her life on the line to fight against Voldemort and goes on to Marry a Muggle, so it's highly unlikely that she was supportive of it. Someone else wrote she is a quintessential example of the author flopping at the inclusion or flopping at inclusion as usual, especially with her nonsense name. She basically exists to be a stereotypical in Western media token smart Ravenclaw Asian girl for a white boy to obsess over and sexualize until she demands to be treated like a person and not an object. Then dumps her like a hot potato. Tea and shade. It's my turn. I know, I know that we don't know. And I explained at the beginning of the episode that part of the reason why I included her in the Half Bloods list is because on average most of the characters are Half Blood. And those who are not, we know because they don't shut up about it. Purebloods want you to know. Want you to know their Pure blood. They make it so clear. And I also don't think that Chell would be as stressed out about Umbridge and all the other things if she was. If she was Pure Blood. We are literally left to speculate. And given everything that we know about what goes on in this world, it seems very unlikely to me that she's Pure Blood because I think that she would have a very, very, very different mentality. She would not be nearly as concerned and I don't think she would be caught dead in defense against. I'm the defense against the Dark Gods in Dumbledore's army. I know that there are some Pure Bloods who are in there, but I think that there is a way that if she has this much anxiety about the goings on, I me thinks that it is less likely that she would show up there. Now this is all conjecture. I get it. We don't have a lot to work with. And I do think that there is a world in which like I think the interesting thing about this is what do we do in a society where we don't know what you are, right? We see when Draco meets Harry, he just presumes he is pure Blood because everybody that Draco knows is pure Blood. It's not until he gets to Hogwarts that he meets people that aren't. And you know, in our world, when we think about race, right, like racial ambiguity, people are always looking for boxes you don't get to. And so you don't really get to exist in some sort of racial or ethnic limbo. And I think the same is true for blood status, right? Like Cho doesn't Just get to exist as a magical person. We have to know what she is. And if we don't know, we will make, we will draw conclusions. We're going to make assumptions, we're going to figure it out. Because that's how societies work. And given the nature and the stringency of the blood status hierarchy within the wizarding world, it is so unlikely that Cho would be pure blood. We would know. It's very unlikely that she would be Muggle born because we would know. And also the level of knowledge that she has seems to suggest that she's been in the magical world for a considerable amount of time. Meaning that there is a parent, at least one who is magical. And what's more, is like we know that Chang isn't in the sacred 28. We know that people would know who she was. More Ron would have had a sense of who she was. Like people would know her if she was part of the kind of in group of pure bloodedness. She's not. So I think it's safe for us to assume that she is not pure blood just because of the way that the social markers of pure bloodedness operate within the magical world. I think it is also safe for us to assume that she is not Muggle born, namely because we know that her mother works for the ministry. And so I think at the end of the day it is much more likely again statistically that she is half blood, given everything that we know about the world. And you don't get to live in a shade of gray in the magical world when you have a hierarchy that is set up with basically four delineations. Pureblood, half blood, muggle born, squib. We know she can do magic, so she's not a squib. And then the other two, it's, we can kind of do process of elimination. We also know from Haggard that most people are half blood. For real. For real. Anyway, it stands to reason that this is just her truth. Now, you may disagree. You know where to meet me. I'd love to have a conversation about this because nerding out about the notion of identity is really important and many of you have a much more encyclopedic knowledge of the books. And so maybe there's something in the books that you see as her being pure blood. I want to hear about it. That would be amazing. But for right now, I said what I said do I think she's a good one. I think that she rejects pure blood supremacy, at least in the forms that it takes in terms of, you know, being a Death Eater. I think she recognizes the ills of it. That's why she joins the da. I think she is, she fights against it in the Battle of Hogwarts. So yeah, I think in that way I do, I do think that she is a good half blood in that regard. I don't think that she has the kind of half blood genetic composition that would allow for her to be the bridge between the Muggle and the magical world. Because I think if anything she's grown up in the magical world and has two magical parents. But somewhere down the line there's some Muggle lineage in her life that would exclude her from being pure blood because that's how that works. So for all intents and purposes, until some of you are offering evidence to the contrary, I'm gonna say she's half blood. And I'm gonna say that she's a pretty decent one.
- [56:43]
Howie Mandel
Hey, it's Howie Mandel and I am inviting you to witness history as me and my How We Do It Gaming team take on Gilly The King and Wallow 2, 6 $7 million gaming in an epic Global Gaming League video game showdown. Four rounds, multiple games, one winner plus a halftime performance by multi platinum artist Travy McCoy. Watch all the action and see who wins and advances to the championship match against Neo right now@globalgamingleague.com that's globalgamingleague.com everybody
- [57:13]
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- [57:46]
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- [58:30]
Professor Julian Womble
Is Cho Chang a hero? Now this question I knew this question's always madness, absurdity and foolishness. So about 33% of us said yes, about 44% of us said no and about 23% of us said, don't know. Someone wrote, cho was a hero. She fought in the Battle of Hogwarts, actively going out of her way to be there, having already graduated. Another person wrote, cho is a character who as far as we know, doesn't have anyone she's fighting for on the front lines. Her parents are not in the order. Marietta is under the wing of her ministry mother and she has fallen out with Harry and most of the DA by proxy. She does not have to turn up at the Battle of Hogwarts, but she does unhesitatingly. She doesn't have to support Harry. She doesn't have the support network of Harry and the other Gryffindors, maybe Michael Corner, with whom she seems to have remained friends with. So this is purely down to her doing the right thing because it's the right thing. I believe Cho Chang is a hero. It's my turn. Yeah. Anyways, I'm just adding extra things on to keep you guys locked in. This is interesting. I do think she is and I think that the case was made very strongly by whoever was the one who wrote this. Like that really went down and was like, she has no reason to be there. She has no reason to show back up. She'd already graduated. No one from her. Very few people from her house are there. Luna was there, maybe Padma perhaps. But like, we don't get a lot of Ravenclaws out here risking life and limb. Um, she's not like Tonks, fighting for someone. Like she's there because she's there fighting for a better world, which is not inconsequential. But like there is a world in which I do think that, like, yeah, I, I, I can see that. And I know that some of us, you know, get on our case about calling everyone a hero. I think that's kind of the point of the book though. I think that, and I think that this is also the downside of, you know, focusing a story on child soldiers. It's like there's a way in which, Right. Like, and I think in a world where it's never lost on me that a lot of people that could show up to fight don't. Right. The wizarding world is not small. It is not as large maybe as a non magical world, but there are a lot of magical adults. Like, where are the ministry officials? None of them showed up. Like all these kids, parents, none of them showed up. If for nothing else to get their kid. Like, it is never lost on me that the people who are doing most of the fighting and the battling are children. And that to me in and of itself is the folly of youth. But it is also, there's a heroism to it as well. Namely, because what we can learn from the adults who don't show up is that there is an alternative to this. There is a way that you're just like, baby. Whoever is down there at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, they can handle this. And I'm just going to sit here and I'm going to chill sitting up in my room. Protective spells from Voldiva and the Death Eaters and we'll wait until this is over. And show doesn't do that. A lot of these people don't do that. And that is telling and it's informative and it tells us a story about what she believes and who she is as a person and the sacrifices that she's willing to make. And I don't think that that is inconsequential. And I feel like the more I think about it, the more I'm like, it is okay that we look at some of these characters and say, like, yeah, they are heroes. And if it's the vast majority, that's because these are the people who decided to show up. Where the hell is Ludo? Bagman H Where's Rita? Like, we meet all of these adult people throughout our time and none of them are there. None of them show up. But Sho goes out of her way for reasons unknown to be at the battle. That's a case I can get behind. Foreign it's time for chaos. This last question I added because I really just wanted to be chaotic. And the last question is, was Cho Chang Harry's girlfriend? About 26% of us said yes, 69% of us said no, and about 5% of us said don't know. Someone wrote, I would not say she was Harry's girlfriend if that's what we're being asked. They had one disastrous date and it fell apart after that. I think you need more than that to seal things. Someone else wrote, I don't really consider Harry and Cho to have been in a relationship. They kissed once, had one disastrous date. Disastrous is really the word that the people are using. And then it fell apart also that these are two different responses. So I'm obsessed with that. That reads more like shared trauma than romance. And I think Cho gets unfairly framed as a problem. When both of them were way too emotionally overwhelmed to build something healthy. Someone else wrote, was Cho Harry's girlfriend? Sure, in the high school sense of the term that they liked each other for a while and tried dipping their toes in those waters. Would I have called it a real relationship? No, of course not. But Harry himself thinks of her as his old girlfriend, so who am I to argue? And one more person wrote. One thing in particular I had no trouble with was the question about if Joe was Harry's girlfriend. Absolutely not. It was clear that she sought him out not in a romantic way, but to bond over shared trauma. Though both of them might have mistaken that for romantic interest, at no point was that the case. Additionally, going on one date does not mean a relationship. If anything, they had a f ed up situationship that was never going to work out. It's my turn, my turn. And no, that wasn't his girlfriend. Harry's delusional because when he said that she was his old girlfriend, I said, is she? Does she know? Cause you sound crazy because you went into that tea shop, didn't even realize that it was Valentine's Day and that she was even wanting you to take her there in the first place. And then you did some crazy thing and somehow you walked away from that situation thinking, that's my ex girlfriend. And I guess we just broke up, even though we stopped talking altogether and I didn't really care. And there was really this weird kiss that we had that I didn't know anything about, but somehow she's my girlfriend. Are you joking? Harry? I think you need to get your head checked out because you kissed Jenny and didn't think that she was your girlfriend until way later anyway. And maybe this is just a thing about teenage boys and they don't know which way is up. I don't know. But what I do know is that this is a musical response. Thank you so much. I'm not editing any of that out because frankly, it's called art. But no, I do not think that she was his girlfriend. I thought it was weird when he says his old girlfriend, I'm like, I think relationships are meant to be reciprocal. And I don't think that Joe would ever call herself your old girlfriend. I think you made that up to make yourself feel better, dude. I think you made that up. We've now reached the point in the episode where I am going to reflect on the one and only Ms. Cho Chang. Something came up many times in this survey that I want to make sure that we touch on. And that's the Cho Chang of it all. The name. It's not a new conversation. We have spent the last two episodes sitting with how JKR handles Race in the wizarding world. And what we keep finding is the same thing in different forms. Race exists in these books, but the architecture around it is thin, like paper thin. For black characters, she had it in the name explicitly, right? She would call them black. Kingsley Shacklebolt is black. Dean Thomas is black. But nothing else in the text was doing that work. The physical descriptions weren't specific, the culture markers weren't there, so she named it directly and then moved on for other characters of east and South Asian descent, she took a different approach. She used the names as a signal. In many ways, this is akin to the belief that somehow using a. A football league name. Team. A football team. I don't know what it is in Europe. Sorry, I'm American, you know, we're not very good at knowing things outside of what we know. Um, but anyways, using a football team's name to indicate Dean's race, and many of you said it didn't hit. So in a similar way, she uses the names as a signal, right? Cho Chang, Parvati, Padma Patel, Seamus Finnegan. The name arrives and is expected to do all the heavy lifting, communicate ethnicity, origin, cultural identity without the text having to do anything else. We are meant to understand who these characters are, where they're from, what they represent, from two words on a page with no further elaboration. And the problem with Cho Chang specifically is not just that it follows this pattern, but how little care went into it. In a world where Rowling built in an extraordinary amount of attention to the texture and meaning of names. Dumbledore, Voldemort, Nymphadora, Tonks all carry layers of linguistic intent. Cho Chang reads like a placeholder, like a lazy mistake that just kind of stuck, like the first two syllables that sounded sufficiently generically East Asian to a certain kind of Western ear. It is the literary equivalent of a casting note saying, insert Asian girl here. Kingsley Shacklebolt gets named as the comparison, not because it's the same problem, but because it rhymes with it. It's the same kind of failure applied to a different community. A name that signals blackness through blunt cultural shorthand. In a world where imagination had clearly been applied to everything and everyone else, the contrast is the indictment. Rowling had the range Ish. She just didn't use it when it came to naming Cho Chang. And then there is where she's sorted. Cho Chang, the one solitary, single East Asian character of any significance or any that we meet at all at Hogwarts, is sorted into Ravenclaw. The house defined entirely by its relationship to intelligence. In a series that otherwise distributes its characters across four distinct value systems. The one East Asian girl lands in a house that is essentially a metaphor for the model minority myth. Whether or not this was intentional, the effect is the same. The text reaches for the most available cultural stereotype or shorthand, and uses it twice, once in the name and once in the sorting hats decision. You are smart and you are East Asian, and apparently those facts belong in the same sentence. This compounds something else that is going on and doing a lot of work on how Cho is framed. From the beginning, Harry's attraction to her is established before he knows anything about her. She's beautiful, desired by other boys, and the object his eye finds across the pitage. The pitage. Quitch. Geez Louise. The Quidditch pitch. I'm not editing that out. And the text lingers on that looking. There is a long tradition in Western culture and that is not exclusively American, though I think it takes a particular shape in the American context of East Asian women as a specific kind of desirable, compliant, accommodating, decorative, present in ways that serve and do not demand. The fantasy is not only about attraction, it's about ease, about a woman who does not require too much. The text doesn't make this explicit, and Rowling doesn't kind of give us a lot to work with in the text, but she is writing inside a culture that carries these assumptions and leaves its fingerprints. Cho Chang is beautiful and desired until she's not, until she asks for something, until she cries at a table in Hogsmeade and wants to talk about a boy who died and expects Harry to sit in that sadness and that trauma and that anger and that misunderstanding and that confusion. She breaks in that moment, what the cultural script asks for. She stops being accommodating. She stops being easy. She has emotions that are inconvenient, and she refuses, in this one sustained moment in the text, to manage them for someone else's comfort. Harry is done with her almost immediately. The thing that makes Harry so unattractive to TRO is the same thing that made East Asian women culturally illegible to Western narratives for a very long time. She became a person. She had needs. She stopped reflecting back what was projected onto her and started asking to be met on her own terms. The fantasy requires a particular kind of availability. Emotional, aesthetic, relational. And when Cho stops providing it, she stops being the girl Harry wants. Ginny, who cries plenty when it's her turn to be traumatized, earns Harry's love because her difficult emotions are always eventually folded into something that serve him if they are made present at all, at all. Because there is a moment where he says, I'm breaking up with you. And he. And she's like, I mean, I guess. And he's like, that's why I like Jenny. Because her fire tends to read as passion, her history reads as depth. She's complex, but complex in ways that enhance the experience of being around her rather than complicating it, rather than inviting Harry to have to figure out his own emotions to be present and available for her. Cho's complexity is experienced as a burden. The text did not have to work hard to get us there. We were primed. Now there is something else to sit with, because a number of listeners named it, and it deserves more than just a dismissal. The reality is, is that some people felt seen by Cho Chang. I remember some East Asian readers, particularly those who encountered these books in the late 90s and the early aughts, saying that however imperfect and thin and problematic and stereotypical the name is, Cho was there in the castle. She was at Hogwarts. She was a seeker. She was someone that Harry couldn't stop thinking about in a landscape that offered literally nothing. Cho was something. And as I often say, when the bar is in hell, it's easy to clear. And I want to be so clear. This is not a justification, because to me, this is just as much of an indictment as it is anything else. Because the reality is that this is what happens when representation is so scarce that any foothold becomes meaningful, when a community is so starved for visibility that a stereotypical name and underdeveloped arc feels like progress. The bar gets set by absence, and anything that clears it is called a gift. Cho Chang became significant to some readers not because the text earned that significance, but because the text offered so little else. The powers that be put a name on a page and called it inclusion. And readers who had never seen themselves at Hogwarts or never thought it was possible had to decide whether to take it or to leave it. And I think many of them took it. And that's not on them. That's on the architecture that left them so little to choose from. What the name Cho Chang tells us, finally, is not just about one character. It tells us about the limits of imagination when it isn't required to stretch. J.K. rowling built an entire world. She invented languages, bloodlines, histories, taxonomies of magic. She gave names to owls and portraits and moving staircases. She had the capacity to do something specific, something considered, something that honored the reality of East Asian identity rather than nodding at it from a distance. And she didn't do it. Cho Chang is what you get when diversity is an afterthought, when the goal is representation as presence rather than representation as personhood. A name that signals a category, a character who was never quite allowed to be more than what her name announced. An audience of readers, some of whom still carry her with them, who deserved so much better than that.
- [76:53]
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- [79:01]
Professor Julian Womble
Foreign. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode. First of all, thank you. Please feel free to like rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pods are cast y'. All. We made it through the Cho Chang episode. I'm really feeling it and you're welcome. If you made it this far, you deserve a little bit of a vocal. Okay, thank you all so much for listening. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. Do not forget that the Dean Thomas episode is coming up and the survey will be there for you on Thursday on Patreon patreon.com critical magictheory. You will have access to it for free. You can also join us for the post episode. You can also find it on criticalmagic theory.com, you can find it on my social media Prof. JW on Instagram and ProfW on TikTok. I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on Dean. But more than that, I can't wait to hear your thoughts in the post episode chat on Chell. Until then, be critical and stay magical my friends. Bye.
- [80:17]
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Professor Julian Womble
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