Prof Responds- Cho Chang, the Rebel

Summary

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Critical Magic Theory: Prof Responds — Cho Chang, the Rebel

Host: Professor Julian Womble
Date: April 1, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Critical Magic Theory delves into the character of Cho Chang in the Harry Potter series, challenging common reader perceptions and unpacking deeper themes about emotional expression, racialization, and gender. Professor Julian Womble, responding to listener comments and critiques, encourages a nuanced examination of Cho’s role in the narrative: not merely as a love interest or an “emotional” foil, but as a figure of resistance—and perhaps rebellion—against the Wizarding World's culture of emotional suppression. The discussion explores both positive and negative aspects of Cho's characterization and what her journey reveals about broader issues within the series and in our own society.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening Reflections & Corrections

• Acknowledgment of Community Support
  Prof. Womble thanks listeners for their messages and condolences, expressing gratitude for the ongoing community dialogue. (02:03)

• Correction from Previous Episode
  Clarifies a past misstatement: the claim that Cho’s mother worked for the Ministry is a "movie-ism," not book canon, affecting previous conclusions about Cho’s blood status. Still, if Cho were pureblood, it would likely be made explicit in the books, as characters from pureblood families rarely hide this fact. (02:20–03:28)

“If you believe that Cho was a pure blood, that's also fine. It doesn't really change the conversation that we're gonna have today.” — Prof. Julian Womble (03:38)

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Theme 1: Emotionality, Gender, and Narrative Perspective

(08:30–20:00; 37:53–49:03, 50:04–66:47)

• Harry's perspective as the filter through which readers view Cho significantly shapes our perception—his emotional reticence is validated, while Cho’s sadness is pathologized.

  “I'm not gonna say that I think Harry's an unreliable narrator, but I do think he's a teenage boy who was dealing with drama, and so his perspective on things is a little skewed.” (08:57)

• Critique of Pathologizing Cho's Emotions
  Listeners challenge the dislike of Cho’s “emotional” nature, pointing out Harry’s own emotional immaturity.

  “Why are we assuming that emotional is a bad thing? Why are we describing Cho like that as though it's a bad thing? Clearly some of us didn't learn our Lavender lesson.” (09:52, Prof. Womble summarizing listener Charlie)

  “Harry is annoyed by traits or actions of Cho that he himself is showing…” (10:23, listener Anna)

• Masculine vs. Feminine Expressions of Grief
  Comparing Harry’s anger (coded as masculine, read as justified) with Cho’s vulnerability and sadness (read as weakness, less legitimate).

  "Anger doesn't require vulnerability. ... Cho, on the other hand, is crying. Sadness requires vulnerability." (13:24–14:12, Prof. Womble)

  Prof. Womble draws from personal experience to emphasize cultural discomfort with public sadness, equating Cho’s willingness to grieve openly as both healthy and courageous.

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Theme 2: Racialization, “The Other,” and Romantic Disposability

(21:16–37:53)

• Stereotyping and Exoticization
  Listener Andrea: Cho is written to fit stereotypes of Asian women as objects of desire, “not a full person.” Her character and even her name reinforce this. (22:18–22:26)

• Characters of Color as “Tests” or Stepping Stones Listeners flag a pattern: characters like Cho, Dean Thomas, and the Patil twins only serve as transient romantic interests for white central characters—a motif mirrored in Hermione’s relationship with Krum and Ginny’s with Dean before they “come home” to Ron or Harry, respectively.

  “Cho Chang is the Asian Other that Harry has to learn is not for him before settling down to marry the white girl next door, Ginny.” (23:06, listener Drakia)

  • The Patil twins and Angelina Johnson serve as "backup" choices for Ron, Harry, and the Weasley twins, often treated as less desirable despite their supposed “beauty.” (25:47–27:20)

• Movie vs. Book “Erasure” Prof. Womble highlights that Lavender Brown was cast as a Black girl before her importance as Ron's love interest, after which the role switched to a white actress, reinforcing the series’ uncomfortable racial politics. (29:46–30:06)

“There's a way that it's like, for this moment in time, you served your purpose. But now we're done with that.” (30:31)

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Theme 3: Cho’s Sidelined Potential & Unseen Depth

(37:53–49:03)

• Listeners mourn how Cho could have offered emotional intelligence, loyalty, and a richer Ravenclaw representation if given narrative room beyond being Harry’s love interest.

  “She's one of the characters I say could have helped the group instead of being sidelined for a love triangle…” (38:15, listener Keisha)

  • Her deep loyalty is exemplified by her grief for Cedric, willingness to join Dumbledore’s Army, and instinct to protect Harry from false accusations.

• Narrative Invisibility
  Because the story follows Harry, readers know little about Cho, reinforcing the pattern where female characters, especially women of color, exist only as extensions of the protagonist’s story arc.

  “She has no identity outside of Harry's attraction to her. And the moment that he stops being attracted to her, she disappears.” (48:11–48:16)

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Theme 4: Suppression of Emotion in Wizarding Culture

(49:57–66:47)

• The Wizarding World teaches concealment—“Occlumency” as metaphor—to survive. Vulnerability is treated as weakness, and emotional suppression is coded as maturity.
  Characters like Snape, Dumbledore, and Slughorn rely on magical or psychological tools to avoid feeling, with disastrous consequences.

  “Snape is what the wizarding world makes of you when you follow its emotional logic all the way to its conclusion. ... Dumbledore suppresses his grief so thoroughly that he cannot reckon with his greatest failure...” (57:30–58:16)

  • Cho’s public grief is depicted as uniquely courageous—a form of rebellion. Where Dumbledore’s Army resists politically, Cho resists emotionally, refusing to conform to social expectations.

    “Cho is doing something that the DA cannot and would not do because it isn't taught or respected or socialized in the wizarding world. She is refusing emotional concealment publicly and without apology. ... and in the face of a world that has every tool available to make sure no one does that, she is outrageously courageous.” (61:37–62:25)

• The Ginny Comparison
  Both Cho and Ginny are “seeker, beautiful, popular,” but Ginny’s emotional toughness is praised while Cho’s openness is pathologized.

  “Harry... thinking she was not tearful. That was one of the many wonderful things about Ginny. She was rarely weepy. He sometimes thought that having six brothers must have toughened her up. Wonderful. He calls that wonderful.” (50:52–51:27, summarizing book passage)

  • The cost of this toughness: both Ginny’s and Harry’s inability to process trauma makes them vulnerable—not stronger.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On emotionality and gender:

  “Anger doesn't require vulnerability. ... Cho is sad. And sadness requires vulnerability. It moves towards acceptance, and acceptance in the cultural imagination looks like surrender if not presented in a certain way.” (13:24–14:12)

• On the wizarding world and emotional suppression:

  “The wizarding world as a culture is organized around concealment. Hide your magic from Muggles. Hide your location from your enemies. Hide your feelings from Voldemort. ... Conceal, don’t feel.” (55:51–56:26)

• On resistance through grief:

  “The DA gets celebrated for its courage. ... But Cho is doing something that the DA cannot and would not do... She is refusing emotional concealment publicly and without apology. ... This feels like an act of rebellion to me, and I really do mean that.” (61:33–62:25)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:38–05:46: Corrections and reflections on Cho’s background and “movie-isms.”
• 08:30–20:00: Main deep-dive: Harry as narrator, emotionality, and perceptions of Cho.
• 21:16–37:53: Analysis of racialization, pattern of “testing” characters of color, and Hollywood erasure.
• 37:53–49:03: Listener comments about Cho's unfulfilled potential and emotional intelligence.
• 49:57–66:47: Reflections on emotional culture in the Wizarding World, comparisons between Cho and Ginny, and the reframing of Cho's grief and authenticity as radical courage.

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Conclusion & Final Reflections

Prof. Womble concludes that Cho Chang is, in fact, “the only person in the building telling the truth” by refusing to hide her grief and pain in a society—and a narrative—that codes emotional vulnerability as weakness.

“Crying at Hogwarts ... in the face of authoritarianism at your school. Living in that truth ... and still doing it anyway... Yeah, that's brave too.” (65:55–66:09)

Listeners are encouraged to reconsider previous biases against Cho and to see the value, magic, and rebellion in emotional honesty—both in fiction and outside it.

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For Further Engagement

Listeners are encouraged to complete the Dean Thomas survey and continue the discussion on social media or Patreon, affirming the communal, evolving nature of critical Harry Potter discourse.

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Transcript

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[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the wizarding world of Harry Potter.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Because loving something doesn't mean we can't

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

be critical of it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I'm Professor Julian Womble and today is the Prof.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Response episode for our discussion on Cho Chang.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I want to begin by thanking all

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

of you for your support and your messages and your condolences. I cannot tell you how much they

[Professor Julian Womble]

meant to me and I'm so grateful

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to be a part of this community of really just incredible people. And I feel very, very lucky and fortunate that we get to go on this journey together through the good and through the bad. And so I had to start there.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And then I have to start by saying that I made an error in

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

the last episode and some of you were kind enough to correct me when I talked about, you know, how I arrived at the idea that Sho Chang was a half blood and I said, you know, her mom worked for the ministry. It was brought to my attention that that is a movie ism and that this was a weird way that the creators and writers of the movie kind of tried to bridge the Mariettas. The Marietta's absence.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Huh?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Hello, Bridge. Marietta's absence from the movie by putting in this particular tidbit about Cho's mom working for the ministry and that we actually don't know that, which completely undercuts my entire. My entire claim.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Although I still maintain that if you're

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

pure blood, we're gonna know about it. No one is running around that place not telling us that they are pure blood.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It is the thing that you want people to know about you.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Particularly because again, magical ability is a foregone conclusion at Hogwarts. And so when it comes to hierarchy, you want people to know.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And even if you're not someone who's like, I'm better than you, it's still

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

a thing that just like shows up in conversation. And I don't get the sense that that's Cho's vibe. Now that's conjecture.

[Professor Julian Womble]

If you believe that Cho was a pure blood, that's also fine.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

It doesn't really change the conversation that we're gonna have today, which

[Professor Julian Womble]

to be a good one because you all brought it, y'. All.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

The other thing that I have been laughing about is so many people being like that. It's my turn has become like their vocal stem.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And to that I say, you are so welcome. Like the generosity of me.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

That sounds like a Gilderoy Lockhart textbook.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Well, and perhaps it is.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

But anyways, I just love so much that you all are running around singing that to yourselves, to others, in public, in private. It just brings me so much joy because I think music, what does Dumbledore say is, you know, the best teacher far beyond whatever they teach at Hogwarts. Anyways, I just love that that is, that's what we're doing. It just means a lot to me also because, you know, we have to get through everything before we dive in. The Dean Thomas survey is up. Okay. It's on the Patreon. I will post it in all of my other places as well. It'll be on the website and so on and so forth. You all wanted it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

You all wanted it and you all told me that I should do it.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And so I won't have any of this. I want responses again. If you don't have a lot to say in the open ended responses, that's okay.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But just fill out the regular survey.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

It will be open until next Monday, so get to work, friends. I will post it on Sunday as per usual for the stragglers. But if you have thoughts on Dean, his relationship with Jenny, his relationship with Seamus, his relationship with Harry, the lack of relationship that he has with his dad. We did a little bit of a precursor. So there should be some things kind of percolating in your mind. If not, that's fine.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Fine. If so, share them, y'. All.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I cannot wait to dive into this episode on show. We really got into the nitty gritty, okay?

[Professor Julian Womble]

And people have been sending me DMs

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

saying they really have enjoyed this episode. And I think part of the reason

[Professor Julian Womble]

why, if I may, is because I think we get a lot of Cho

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

at face value, just like we did for Fleur. And a lot of us have very strong feelings about Cho, like we did for Fleur, like we did for Lavender.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And these episodes.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Not to pat myself on the back, but I think these episodes about these particular characters are really an invitation for us to really think about why we have these perceptions of these characters the way that we do. And so I am really happy that you all enjoyed this episode. I always get a little dicey when it comes to characters that we don't get to spend a ton of time with, but those are always the best episodes. And this is no different because you all bring it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so let's see what you all brought. But before we see that you know what time it is and you are getting ready to bop. Cause once you bop, the fun don't stop.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I can't guarantee that that will always be a thing, but for today, it is.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so get ready to bop. Three in two in one, let's bop.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I don't know why I said it like that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I hope you danced, y'. All.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I took my allergy medication and I

[Professor Julian Womble]

often take some, but this time I took a few things and the voice is voicing. And so I'm not saying that this

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

is going to be a full vocal episode, but you're going to get these

[Professor Julian Womble]

vocals because I can't always guarantee that they're going to be this good, this crystal clear. Okay?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And honestly, Cho deserves nothing less than crystal clear vocals. And so that is what we are going to give her.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And you, let's dive right in.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

No time to dilly, no time to dally. We're going to start off strong.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And the first theme that came up

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

in the post episode chat was one

[Professor Julian Womble]

that really kind of got to the

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

heart of how we came to understand Shell. Right. The way that we tend to problematize a lot of the things that she

[Professor Julian Womble]

does and the way that we came to understand her, which is obviously through

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

the lens of Harry.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I'm not gonna say that I

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

think Harry's an unreliable narrator, but I do think he's a teenage boy who was dealing with drama, and so his perspective on things is a little skewed. Okay, whether that makes him unreliable is

[Professor Julian Womble]

that's up to you.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

But I won't say that he's unreliable. I will say that he is someone navigating some things that might make him. Make him a little shortsighted.

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 2]

Hey, everyone. Check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 3]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 2]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 3]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 2]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Charlie wrote.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Why are we assuming that emotional is a bad thing? Why are we describing Cho like that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

as though it's a bad thing? Clearly some of us didn't learn our lavender lesson. I love lavender lesson.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I don't know why we're all out here complaining about Cho being rightfully emotional,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

but not talking about how Harry has the emotional range of a teaspoon.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I don't understand.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I understand not wanting to be surprised

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

with a topic while on a date on Valentine's Day. But he should have talked to her about it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

She knew Cedric better than he did.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Does he ever talk to anyone about Cedric? I don't think so. Anna writes, Harry is annoyed by traits

[Professor Julian Womble]

or actions of Cho that he himself is showing. Oof. Like when he is so annoyed that she is always with some giggling girls and never alone. When he himself seems to always be with Ron and Hermione in between classes and only alone when he's on some secret mission? Like what if she ever wanted to talk to him in private?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Did he ever think about that switch perspective? No.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Or how he judges her hard for sticking by Marietta's side when he himself is also not calling in or challenging his friend's questionable actions in any meaningful way. It's my turn.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Listen, y'.

[Professor Julian Womble]

All.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

The reality of the situation is that Harry lacks self awareness.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it shows a lot when we think about the way that he perceives

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

the behavior of people outside of his orbit.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And at the end of the day,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

so much of what was given to us here by Anna and by Charlie

[Professor Julian Womble]

hits Because I think it begs a deeper question, though, is what? How do we understand Harry in this moment?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Now, listen, this is not a Harry episode. It's coming, but this is not the one.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But I think it's important for us to really think about why it is that we, as readers, so readily accept

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

his perspective on things. I was recording an episode for the podcast Potterversity. And at the beginning, before we started recording, the hosts were talking about the claim that I make about how we are often guided into thinking certain things by the author. And they asked, like, don't you think that's the prerogative of the author?

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I said, I do to a certain extent. But I think that we have to

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

start asking ourselves questions when we start

[Professor Julian Womble]

noticing trends about who we are guided

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to dislike and who we are guided to prefer, Right?

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I think that in this way, Harry serves as the perfect vehicle for this, right? Because we as readers understand Harry's emotionality, right?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

We understand he's been lied to by adults.

[Professor Julian Womble]

There's been information withheld.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

He is in deep mourning for the death of Cedric, which he watched with

[Professor Julian Womble]

his own two eyes. The Ministry is gaslighting him and the magical world publicly. Umbridge is there upending everything. Dumbledore is not speaking to him. Like, there are lots of reasons and justifications for this. And so his emotions feel justified, right? His pain feels airtight. And his primary emotional register is anger, which I think we tend to read as justified because he's a boy, because

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

he's a hero, because he has every right to be.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I think we're much more comfortable with anger because anger doesn't require vulnerability. You can be angry and it looks like you haven't given up. It looks like a fight. It looks like pushing through.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

It looks like surviving.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho, on the other hand, is crying. And that is such a different thing. Yes, people cry when they're angry, but it's a different kind of crying, and

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

it's not the kind of crying that Cho is doing.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho is sad. And sadness requires vulnerability. It moves towards acceptance, and acceptance in the cultural imagination looks like surrender if not presented in a certain way.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

As I was reading through the comments, I was thinking about the stages of shock, denial, anger, bargaining, testing, acceptance.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And we will sit with someone in their rage. We'll find the denial understandable. But public sadness is really, really hard. And I think some of it is because when we see other people cry, we tend to also feel the urge to cry in certain situations, and that feels not right. We rarely see Harry cry in These texts. And when he does, it's often described as an involuntary action, something that just comes upon him. He feels the wetness in his eyes, he feels the burning in them. And when it does happen, as I

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

was rereading the first book, there's a moment where he starts to cry when Dumbledore's explaining his mother's sacrifice.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And Dumbledore turns away.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And Harry was grateful because he didn't want to be seen crying, Right?

[Professor Julian Womble]

There is this space in which that level of vulnerability is really, really difficult.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

My friend who just passed away, I had to sing at her service. And for those of you who are singers or know anything about singing, singing and crying is really, really hard to do because lots of things happen. And anyways, and so my friend, I'm also really good friends with her daughter.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so the night before, we made a pact that we would not look at each other because we knew that if we did, we would just begin to cry. And I.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And I really wanted to perform and I wanted to sing the song really, really well. And so I just was like, okay,

[Professor Julian Womble]

disassociation Express is on the way. And my therapist was like, what if you just cried? And I thought to myself, I mean,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

yeah, I guess, and spoiler alert, I did.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But there's a way in which, like, in that moment, no one wants to go to that place. And I think the other thing that scares us about sadness and depression and all of the like, down emotions is that you don't know what you're gonna get. Like, you don't know if you start crying, are you gonna be able to stop? And so there's a way that, like, there's a catharsis to crying.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Like, I love having a good cry

[Professor Julian Womble]

and just getting it all out, but there's also a way in which sometimes it's the most uncontrollable thing, right when you're angry, you get the angry, the angry out, you get the anger out, and then you're done. And so Harry is stuck in that place, refusing to truly allow himself to kind of feel the feelings. And maybe it is that fear of, like, I don't know what's gonna happen

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

if I just let it all out.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho, though, moves towards the sadness, moves towards the space in which she has to accept. And what's interesting is that the text rewards that refusal of sadness, that refusal of where you're really at, and it punishes that acceptance. And because Harry's emotional register of anger

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

is coded as masculine and chose as

[Professor Julian Womble]

more feminine, not only do we see his as more legitimate, but we absolutely demonize her for hers.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And that is, I think, part of

[Professor Julian Womble]

the larger understanding of the way that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

the author programs us to think about gender and gendered expressions that are not

[Professor Julian Womble]

even tied to boys or girls or anyone in between, but rather how we understand performance. Right? How we understand, you know, what it means to perform one's gender. Right. And we tend to associate anger with men and sadness and tears with women. And as a result. And it reminds me of what Cassie

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

said in our Lavender episode, right?

[Professor Julian Womble]

About how we just think that teenage girls are so silly and really don't know anything, and we are very hard on them. And I think that we can extrapolate that idea out and really acknowledge the reality of, you know, when we think about the things that we consider to be feminine, we delegitimize them very quickly and without much delay. And what is true, though, right, is that, like, Cho is probably on a healthier path in terms of the way that she is navigating her emotions by allowing the truth to really guide where she's at emotionally in a way that's so different than everyone else who seems

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to be so stunted. But we're gonna talk about that a little later.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so I do think that there's

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

something to be said about, you know,

[Professor Julian Womble]

Harry as a narrator in this moment. And I'm gonna throw this out there

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

because, as I said, this isn't a Harry episode. But I think we also have to

[Professor Julian Womble]

remind ourselves, like, who are Harry's emotional role models? Not even, like, in terms of who he chose for them to be, but we're talking about Petunia and Vernon Dursley.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Never before have we seen people who.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Whose only emotional outlet is anger. And so he gets it honest, if we're being honest. And so to that end, I'm like,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

yeah, Harry, I kind of get it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I understand where you're at. But I also see Cho being a much more healthy alternative for the realities

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

of what they are facing.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Navigating the grief of Cedric is really, really difficult. And I cannot imagine doing that and

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

not allowing myself to fully embody those emotions.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 1]

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson 2]

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[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Oh, no.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

The second theme that came up was one that was rooted in how we understand the role of racialized minority people in these texts and thinking through our how we understand that and apply that to Cho, but particularly as it pertains to romance. And I think there's something here that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I'm really excited to dive into because it speaks to a much larger kind of social understanding of the role of racial minorities in majority white spaces. So we might have a little Bridgerton discourse.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I mean, okay, if you don't watch Bridgerton, that's fine. If you do, also fine.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Anyways, let's get into it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Andrea or Andrea says, looking back with

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

clear eyes, I see the bigger picture.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho was written in a way that leaned into stereotypes about Asian women being

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

desirable objects for men rather than a full person.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Then you add Ravenclaw and her name. It is now obvious how she was written extremely stereotypically so she was just a girl trying to navigate high school attractions and ultimately the grief of loss. She deserved better from the narrative and from me. Drakia wrote, There is a bit of a theme in Harry Potter of dating

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

someone other, and that's in air quotes, which I believe to take as like a other meaning, not white before coming

[Professor Julian Womble]

home to marry the familiar. Cho Chang is the Asian Other that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Harry has to learn is not for him before settling down to marry the white girl next door, Ginny Hermione dallies

[Professor Julian Womble]

with an Eastern European man whose first language isn't English, then settles down to marry her English best friend Ron. Ginny dates black Dean Thomas before settling down with white Harry Potter. Characters of color don't really get to be seen as viable romantic options for the white main cast of characters. They can only be stepping stones on the path to true love or at best get to be paired off with the other side characters out of the

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

text, like Angelina Johnson.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It's my turn. Yeah yeah yeah yeah y'.

[Carvana Customer]

All.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I love this.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And admittedly I had not thought about it in this way. How we do get to see characters of color used as tools rather than

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

as characters of consequence in the text.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And we see a couple of examples

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

offered to us here, right? We get to see Cho Chang, you know, be the object of Harry's desire. But then we ultimately see that there's some trait that she has that just makes her not suitable for him. And so he ends up with Ginny. We see the same thing. I love, I love this invocation of Crumb and Hermione, right?

[Professor Julian Womble]

The foreignness, right? So Crumb may not be a non

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

white person, but he is an ethnically different person, a non British person, right?

[Professor Julian Womble]

And there are lots of things tied into that. And then ultimately he is someone who ends up with.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Or no, Hermione is someone who ends up with Ron. Right?

[Professor Julian Womble]

Ginny and the Dean Thomas of it all. And so it is like you've got

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to go through that step, right, of ostensibly using characters of colors for the purposes of just figuring things out, a

[Professor Julian Womble]

test, if you will, and then returning back home, Right? And I think that it's. We see that. And what we also see is the usage of characters of color as backup plans. So when we think about the Yule Ball, which is when we get to

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

really kind of see Cho in a very particular way, what we see is

[Professor Julian Womble]

that neither Parvati nor Padma were first

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

choices for Ron or for Harry.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And we hear Dean be the one

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to say, oh, you got the best

[Professor Julian Womble]

looking girls in the grade.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

How did you do that?

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it's like, how indeed?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Because if they were really those girls, and I have no doubt that they are the baddies of Gryffindor House, why

[Professor Julian Womble]

is it that no one else asked them to go? And why is it that they serve the purposes of being just the backup

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

plans for these two white dudes who

[Professor Julian Womble]

neither one of them got to go

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

with who they wanted to go with. And so now they choose the two

[Professor Julian Womble]

brown girls and then treat them terribly at the Yule Ball. Hello.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

You don't want to dance.

[Professor Julian Womble]

You are just rude and nasty and embittered. I'm looking at you, Ron. And Harry is just so, you know,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

afraid of being nervous, being embarrassed rather

[Professor Julian Womble]

that he doesn't want to do anything either. And it just strikes me that Hermione has an amazing time, Jenny has an amazing time. And the two brown girls literally had

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to be rescued by the boys from

[Professor Julian Womble]

Beauxbaton so that they could have a good time. And it's like the punishment that they have to endure not only for Being

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

the two back, like being backup plans

[Professor Julian Womble]

for Ron and Harry, but then also. And it's like, how do we reconcile them being the backup plans for Ron

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

and Harry while also being, at least

[Professor Julian Womble]

in the mind of Dean, the two

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

best looking girls in the grade,

[Carvana Customer]

no

[Professor Julian Womble]

one wanted to go with them. I just. It doesn't sit right in my spirit. And it also is interesting because as

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

we talked about in the Colors of

[Professor Julian Womble]

Magic episode, right, like, there is a racelessness that exists in the magical world and yet I find myself finding race more the more y' all prod me. And the idea of, like, are we

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

meant to believe that it is a.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It is a coincidence that the Patil

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

twins were, what, gonna just not have dates if Ron and Harry had gotten

[Professor Julian Womble]

who they wanted to go with? Right? Like, it is not lost on me that they just happened to be there waiting in the wings.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Mm. I don't like it. It doesn't sit well with me. But it is also part of a much larger and broader narrative.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it is also not lost on me that these are still, we're still

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

within the realm of these are South Asian women.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so we're still within the stereotypical

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

spaces that we would even characterize as TRO as well.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Obviously, East Asian women have different stereotypes, but, like, broadly construed, there's a similar understanding and an exoticization of women from

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

that part of the world. And I'd never thought about this before,

[Professor Julian Womble]

and so I'm grateful to you all

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

for bringing this to the post episode

[Professor Julian Womble]

chat because I do think that it highlights a very particular kind of understanding of what we are meant to believe and understand about these characters and the roles that they play for whom and when, and that they're never meant to be permanent. It's never meant to be something that is meaningful.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Right.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Like, something always shifts. And we're gonna talk a little bit

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

about the juxtaposition of Cho and Ginny

[Professor Julian Womble]

in the reflection, but thinking about the

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

other ways that we see these characters,

[Professor Julian Womble]

it is fascinating. And I had never, ever, ever thought about the way that we see them kind of used and then pushed aside

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

for characters that are more appealing.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it also invites us to remember

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

that Lavender Brown, in the first couple book, first couple movies, rather was portrayed as a black girl.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And then once Ron began to date

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

her, she was recast as a white girl.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so now we're back to that. And it speaks to the broader kind

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

of understanding that we are meant to

[Professor Julian Womble]

have about desirability and race. And it's one of those things where it's like, oh, you're good enough for this particular moment in time, but not for more than that. Not for fully dating, not for being

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

in a meaningful relationship or whatever, Right? That there is a way that it's like, for this moment in time, you served your purpose. But now we're done with that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I don't know, y', all, there's

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

something to unpack about that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it's outrageously revealing in terms of JKR's racial politic in no uncertain terms. I think it reveals to us because, again, it would be one thing if we were living in a space and place where these individuals were there but

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

not there, which is kind of how I had perceived and understood them before we really began to dive into the racialized aspect of their existence.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But now I'm like, no, no, no. They're there, and they are there in the space being utilized in very particular ways. And I will never, ever, ever forgive Harry for the fact that while under

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Felix Felicis, he upends and destroys Dean's relationship with Jenny.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And Dean gets blamed for something that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Harry did, and that's why Jenny breaks up with him.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And we as readers are like, yeah,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

that's great, because Harry bumped into Jenny on the way out.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I can always tell when the.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

When people recognize that that's some madness and absurdity because it doesn't make it into the movie. I've talked about how for the next iteration of the podcast, I would love to do, like, a movie book comparison. Cause I think while some things we can understand why they would take them out for brevity or whatever, some stuff, I'm like, you took it out because it's a problem. And I think that this might be one of those moments where it's like,

[Professor Julian Womble]

we saw Dean and Ginny making out.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Ron makes a scene about it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But then we don't get the moment where Harry is under the invisibility cloak and.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And bumps Dean as he's leaving the Gryffindor tower, and that is. Or bumps Ginny and she believes that it is Dean.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it's just not lost on me

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

that, like, this black boy had to

[Professor Julian Womble]

pay the price for Harry's luck.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I'm using air quotes there. And got out of her and was dumped as a result of it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And what's more.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Oh, my gosh, it's all coming to me now. I was looking at the. I was looking at the Half Blood Prince today, looking for a quote for this episode.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And it's fascinating because Ginny says to

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Harry and half footprints.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I never gave up on you. Which then re emphasizes the idea. And she's like Hermione told me to

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

go date around so that I could like chill out a little bit mellow.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Which re emphasizes the idea. I mean. And obviously there is Michael Corner.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

So he's also being used as a means by which to kind of like to get closer to like letting Harry see that she was desirable.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But it is not lost on me again that we get to see this moment where Jenny literally gives voice to the idea that like, no, it's always

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

been you and everyone else was just kind of whatever. Poor Dean, poor Cho, poor Padma, poor Parvati. Like poor Angelina. She was probably the one who had the most chance. But even then I'm like, it was one of those like, oh, you better. I can't remember if that's a movie ism or not. And I don't have my. I don't want to say it lest it be a movie ism.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I don't think that the throw the

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

piece of paper at her and ask her to the ball was in the books, but the fact that they put it in the movie also gives me the ick. But I.

[Professor Julian Womble]

In fact, in the post episode chat,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

someone remind me how it is that Fred or George, I can't remember which one

[Professor Julian Womble]

how they ask her.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Either way, that's some mess and I'm so glad that you brought it to us. So thank you all for bringing that up in the post episode chat.

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[Carvana Customer]

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[Professor Julian Womble]

Well, that's cool.

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[Grainger Narrator]

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[Carvana Customer]

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[Carvana Customer]

That's exactly what a catch would want me to think.

[Grainger Narrator]

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[Carvana Customer]

I need a knock on wood. Do we have.

[Professor Julian Womble]

What is this table would I think it's Laminate.

[Carvana Customer]

Okay, yeah, that's good.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

That's close enough.

[Grainger Narrator]

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[Geico Narrator]

From Geico Subconscious News, I'm Tammy Racing thoughts broadcasting from your brain. Tonight's top worry. If something happens to your apartment and you need to, like, stay in a hotel and pay for it. That would be crazy, right? Art Palpitations has more.

[Carvana Customer]

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[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

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[Geico Narrator]

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[Carvana Customer]

Next up, love stories. Are they all they're cracked up to be?

[Geico Narrator]

It feels good to worry less. It feels good to Geico.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Okay, y', all, I looked it up, and it wasn't that Fred. It was Fred had thrown a piece of paper at her, at Angelina.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But in fact, when Ron asked him,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

who you're going with?

[Professor Julian Womble]

He said, angelina.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And Ron was like, really? Have you? You've already asked her.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And Fred goes, good point. And the text says he turned his

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

head and called across the common room. Oy.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Angelina. Angelina, who had been chatting with Alicia Spin it. Near the fire, looked over at him. What?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

She called back.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Want to come to the ball with me?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Angelina gave Fred an appraising sort of look. All right, then, she said.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And she turned back to Alicia and

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

carried on chatting with a bit of a grin on her face. It's still giving. Like you couldn't have. I mean, honestly, the book, the movie should have kept that in. It would have been a little bit better. And I do, like, at least from what we understand, that she wasn't a second choice. So apparently we got to take what we can get. So thanks, I guess. Anyways, I just wanted to point that out before we move on to our third theme, which is really an investigation

[Professor Julian Womble]

into what we could have gotten if

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Cho's character had been given a little bit more room to breathe. Keisha wrote, as a certified Cho lover of the group, she's one of the characters I say could have helped the group instead of being sidelined for a love triangle where the winner gets Harry,

[Professor Julian Womble]

who manages to trip over the bare minimum bar.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Ron is the one who she should

[Professor Julian Womble]

have had a rivalry with the minute

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

he questioned her about Quidditch and be

[Professor Julian Womble]

the foil of Luna when it came

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to being a Ravenclaw.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The group also needed someone who had emotional intelligence, because while Hermione can pick stuff, pick some stuff out, she's barely

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

better than the guys. Beyond that, I also see Cho and Harry's relationship, a step up from the acquaintanceship of Harry and Cedric. I would also like to remind people that Swans, her patronus, are known for

[Professor Julian Womble]

their beauty and loyalty.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

They also grieve deeply at the loss of a lover. Oh, gosh, Tisha, you can't do this to me. Itcherice wrote. But why does it feel like people

[Professor Julian Womble]

forgot that show was literally the person

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Cedric would miss most during the second task in the Triwizard Tournament?

[Professor Julian Womble]

I think that says so much about her. Cedric, the canonical pretty boy prefect who had girls in his own school trying

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to get his autograph, said, nah, I

[Professor Julian Womble]

want to go with Show. The ravenclaw Quidditch team flattened Hufflepuff, so it's highly likely that show is a better seeker than Cedric, too. Meanwhile, the Gryffindors are holding grudges because

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Cedric beat Harry to the snitch that one time.

[Professor Julian Womble]

As for her loyalty, Cho stood 10 toes down for Harry when Filch tried to accuse him of placing an order of dung bombs. She wasn't even sure if Harry was lying or not. Her instinct was to prevent him from getting into trouble. Miroslava wrote, I think we have so few moments when Cho functions as an autonomous person that we draw more conclusions from them than they warrant.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Yes, Cho was loyal to Marietta, but

[Professor Julian Womble]

it's just one somewhat tiny moment. It's. It is convenient for the plot, and

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

it also serves Harry's characterization.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It's basically about Harry putting the cause before Chica's, like the good hero he is now. Here's the thing.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Oh, oh, wait, wait, wait.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It's my turn.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I think that was a key change.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Did I take it out?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I think I might have. I told you the voice is in good shape. It's the allergy medication.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I think that I love the idea of thinking about who Cho could have

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

been to the rest of the group. And I think that, yes, if given

[Professor Julian Womble]

the opportunity for us to truly see her.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Because.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I think the fact that we didn't really get to see her is also telling, because I'm like, how is

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

it that you are someone who Harry claims to have had this, like, big

[Professor Julian Womble]

crush on, and yet he knows absolutely nothing about you?

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

So we as readers, then, as a result, know nothing about Cho.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We don't know anything. Which is kind of crazy when you think about it. Cause it's like, so to be clear,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

this guy has a big crush on you.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And we. We don't even know who your parents are. He. And he never asks. Right. Like, which I think is in and

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

of itself Very telling.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But I love the idea of thinking more about who Cho could have been if we had given.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Been given the opportunity to really get

[Professor Julian Womble]

to know her in a meaningful way. And I love the idea that she is someone who kind of creates balance in meaningful ways. Like, what would it have looked like if Harry had had the time to be with Cho the way that he

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

was with Ginny in Half Blood Prince? Right. Like, what would it have looked like

[Professor Julian Womble]

if we could have had these moments where we get to see her dynamics with the trio? You know, I think we only get

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to get some emotional insight about Sho through Hermione. But what if Cho was able to speak for herself? It feels like a novel concept, which is kind of crazy, but I think

[Professor Julian Womble]

it's very telling because I do think that she could have offered some really interesting insights in a way that is, you know, both because she's just kind of outside the group, but also. Also because she is a Ravenclaw. And I think she, at least in theory, embodies more of how we understand

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

what it means to be a Ravenclaw

[Professor Julian Womble]

in a traditional sense, in the way

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

that the Sorting Hat means for us to understand it.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so to have that juxtaposition between her and Luna would have been really, really cool. And it would have given us a chance to really know who. Who and what Ravenclaws are about, because I think we just don't know anything. And it feels strange to me that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

we just are kind of robbed of that. And I also really love this question, and it's a question that came up quite a bit when it came to

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho's loyalty.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And just this idea of, oh, well, we only get to see it. And it was a word that was used to describe her, and people were

[Professor Julian Womble]

kind of like, I don't even know

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

where that word came from. And I. Which I think is in some ways warranted. I can understand that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But not only was she loyal to Marietta and Harry, she was loyal to Cedric. Her emotionality is loyalty hurt. She's grieving him in a time where the Ministry is literally inviting everyone around them to forget what has happened, to write it off as a tragic accident. Cho is like, accident or not, it happened. This boy lost his life. He meant something to me, and I'm loyal to his memory enough to want to go up against Umbridge and join the DA to cry on Valentine's Day because he is dead. And that is sad. And I am sad because he is dead. Like, there's a certain loyalty that comes along with remembering Someone the way that you.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

That you think they would want to

[Professor Julian Womble]

be remembered, especially in the face of an invitation and in some cases a declaration of forgetting the truth of it. And we don't see her succumb to that. She doesn't sacrifice that she lives in the truth, even when everyone around her, including Harry, who recognizes the truth of

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Cedric's death, but is not as willing

[Professor Julian Womble]

to be as honest and as loyal to Cedric's memory, at least in the same way that Cho was. And Cho is loyal to herself because

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

she's honoring his memory the way that she is. She knows who she is, she knows how she feels, and she's communicating that. And again, I just don't think that we can.

[Professor Julian Womble]

I don't want to underplay that, but I do think that we do lose so much because she's just serving the

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

purpose of being Harry's love interest. And so we struggle because it's like,

[Professor Julian Womble]

who is this person? And I think I'm bringing it back. I'm bringing it back. But like, there is something to be said not just about the invisibility of women in the narratives of men, which

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I think is also something we find

[Professor Julian Womble]

here, but Cho is a woman of color and she is an Asian woman who, and stereotypically are seen as like, silent until necessary and not necessarily playing or taking up a lot of space in the lives of the men around them. And that their role is really simply to be whatever these men need them to be when they need them to be it, and nothing more. And y', all, we kind of see that here, right? We kind of see this particular stereotype playing out in the way that Cho is written. Like our character plays no other part other than just being pretty and talented at Quidditch. But she's also emotional.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

So I guess we're supposed to think that that's annoying.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And because she has left the space that is seen as acceptable, she is no longer desirable. And everything else about her is invisible. I mean, we could even make the

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

same argument, right, about the invisibility of women unless their.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Their narratives serve men. About Hermione, we don't even know her parents names. We don't know where in the country she lives. We know that they are dentists, both of them, and that is it.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And that is all.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Everything that she does ostensibly in some way, shape and or form, has the path of serving Ron and Harry and. Or the plot and her own destiny becomes so intricately tangled up with, with Harry's that there are moments where it feels like she's doing something for her. And in some ways she is, but it also is kind of for him.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I know people might not like that. And this isn't a Hermione episode. So this is just fodder for you to write down what you feel for your Hermione episode. Open ended essay. Okay, we're not gonna dive too deep into this because this is what not a Hermione episode.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But I think that there's a way that we even see her, the biggest

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

woman girl character that we meet in the series, also falling into this particular paradigm. But we definitely see it with Cho. She has no identity outside of Harry's attraction to her.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And the moment that he stops being

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

attracted to her, she disappears.

[Professor Julian Womble]

She disappears into the ether and everyone's like, well, she left the school. And it's like, sure, but not like she would have been in seventh. She would have been a seventh year in Half Blood Prince.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

He sees her for a second and kind of is like, ooh. And then we just.

[Professor Julian Womble]

She was gone, disappeared.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And yeah, she is a Ravenclaw, but she's always been a Ravenclaw. You never saw her again.

[Professor Julian Womble]

She just he. And I think this is one of those moments where it's like from Harry's perspective, it was not relevant, it was not important. And so she disappeared.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

His eyes were fixed on someone else.

[Professor Julian Womble]

His attraction moved.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And that re emphasizes the idea that

[Professor Julian Womble]

her presence was only made known because of his desire.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I don't like that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Not one bit.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

We have now reached the point in the episode where I am going to reflect on some of what you all

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

brought to bear in the post episode chat. Many of you all noticed this particular thing independently.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho and Ginny are essentially the same character sketch. Both seekers, both popular, both described repeatedly as beautiful. They occupy the same structural role, the girl Harry wants. Yet the text positions them as polar opposites. The thing that actually separates them though, is not who they are, it's timing and what each of them is allowed to do with how they feel.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Drakia put it precisely in the comments.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Jenny's Trauma from Tom Riddle never lives on. To inconvenience, Harry chose trauma from Cedric does. And several listeners flagged the line that makes the text preference explicit. Harry, reflecting on Ginny thinking she was not tearful. That was one of the many wonderful things about Jennie. She was rarely weepy. He sometimes thought that having six brothers must have toughened her up. Wonderful. He calls that wonderful.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

That's from Wicked. Okay, thank you. I did take license. I did take some liberties. All right.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But he. He calls it wonderful. And here's the thing, and I'm going

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to take just a quick moment. I'm deviating from my script, but, um,

[Professor Julian Womble]

there's something to be said again about how we reconcile femininity and masculinity and the performances therein. And when we think of Harry as the bi who lived, I'm like, your willingness to forego and, like, demonize femininity and praise masculinity tells us a story.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Okay, I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna add anything to that. I'm just gonna say it's also something that we see very much in many men.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And not. Which isn't to say that, you know, we need to, like, make men queer for it to be true, but that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

there is a space where it's like

[Professor Julian Womble]

many men who claim to like women and femme. People don't like femininity. Hello. Like, let's unpack that. Okay. The absence of tears that Ginny has sits unchallenged. But we know what toughness cost Ginny because the text tells us she couldn't tell anyone about the diary. She kept everything to herself. She didn't tell anyone about her feelings for Harry. Hmm.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

She kept all of that to herself.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And Tom Riddle got into her mind so much so that he could possess her through her inability to not be able to speak her mind, to give voice to her emotions, to emote in any way, shape and or form that would have released the things that she

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

had inside of her. She wrote it all down.

[Professor Julian Womble]

She poured into that diary, and then we only ever hear her talk about the trauma of that particular moment whenever someone is seemingly possessed. And so it is not lost on me that the very quality Harry finds wonderful is the quality that nearly got her killed. And he never makes that connection.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

The text never makes that connection.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And so the belief, the compliment of that goes unchallenged. And the reality of the situation is, is that Harry, too, is struggling with this particular reality. Right. That his lack of vulnerability, his inability to navigate space is what also opens him up. To have Voldemort in his mind. So this very wonderful thing cost him. Because we see that when Harry is mourning, Voldemort cannot enter his mind. And that is how he learns Occlumency,

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

quote, unquote in the seventh book.

[Professor Julian Womble]

If he had just allowed himself, given himself permission to. To feel the mourn, the, the. The sadness and the anguish at watching someone who could have been a friend die unnecessarily, called a spare, and then saw his ghost come back and ask for him to take his body. If he had been given the opportunity to really live in those feelings I think it would have been very difficult for Voldemort to take over his mind. I think it would have been very difficult for that connection to have taken. But because Harry was holding all of that inside and funneling it through something that Voldemort could understand, anger. He left himself wide open in the same way that Ginny did. And yet somehow that connection between them is never, ever, ever made. And in fact, we never actually call

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

a spade a spade in that regard.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I want to zoom out from

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Harry specifically because this is not a Harry episode because the Harry isn't the Harry isn't just him.

[Professor Julian Womble]

The problem isn't just him. The reality is that Harry is a product of his world and his world has a very clear position on emotion. The wizarding world as a culture is organized around concealment. Hide your magic from Muggles. Hide your location from your enemies. Hide your feelings from Voldemort. Literally. The entire defensive strategy against Voldiva is discipline in the form of Occlumency. To quiet your mind, to lock it down. Don't feel, don't feel.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Don't let it surface.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Conceal, don't feel. Put on a show, make one wrong move and everyone will know that's from Frozen. If you don't know it, look it

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

up

[Professor Julian Womble]

in Harry Potter. Your emotions are your downfall.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

This is taught to us by Snape,

[Professor Julian Womble]

endorsed by Dumbledore and presented as tactically necessary. And it is within this logic of the story that we're able to see in many ways, why the magical world is as messed up as it is. Look at what it produces. Snape has practiced emotional concealment his entire adult life. The concealment has a purpose. And he takes out 40 years of unprofit, unprocessed grief on children who never did anything to him.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

But this is not a Snape episode. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Snape is broken.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And I stand by that.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But this episode Makes me see something that I hadn't named quite this way. Snape is not unique. He is what the wizarding world makes of you when you follow its emotional logic all the way to its conclusion. He's a model student. Dumbledore suppresses his grief so thoroughly that he cannot reckon with his greatest failure. And so he puts the ring ring on the finfin. The suppression is the vulnerability, not the feeling. Sluggorn doesn't suppress the memory, he modifies it. The magical world gives tools so that you don't have to live with what's happening inside your mind. The pensif is another moment where you can just extract it and put it away and let it sit around somewhere.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

You can change it, you can siphon

[Professor Julian Womble]

it off, you can do all kinds of things other than feel it. And then there are the students at Hogwarts, sent back in September after Cedric Diggory was laid to rest. And the Ministry, the very institution that's supposed to be protecting them, is publicly insisting that nothing happened. So they're all just wandering around as if this isn't real. The institutional message could not be clearer. Grieve privately, if you grieve at all. Do not let it be visible. Do not let it inconvenience anyone. Move on.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Pull an Elsa Conceal.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Don't feel. And I think that there's something so fascinating about this when we think about

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Cho,

[Professor Julian Womble]

because Cho doesn't do any of this. Cho stands there in the face of all of this concealment and emotional obfuscation and removal and she cries. She feels. She mourns. Like the level of bravery that you have to have in order to recognize what is being asked of you by literally everyone in your orbit, expected of you by the powers that be. And still saying no, that is bravery. She comes back to Hogwarts and is still in it. She does not modify her memory or lock it down. She doesn't perform toughness like Harry. She cries. She says out loud that she's not okay. She reaches towards another person who also experienced a similar loss to her. To be in community with him in a world entirely organized around concealment, where the magical curriculum literally includes a class on defending yourself against the Dark arts. But that particular year was all about pretending that Dark Arts didn't exist and didn't take the person that you had feelings for. This feels like an act of rebellion to me, and I really do mean that. The DA gets celebrated for its courage. They meet in secret practice defensive spells. They resist umbrage at the margins.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And I agree that is really courageous.

[Professor Julian Womble]

But Cho is doing something that the DA cannot and would not do because it isn't taught or respected or socialized in the wizarding world. She is refusing emotional concealment publicly and without apology. The Ministry needs Cedric's death to not be real. The entire institutional apparatus of the Order of the Phoenix depends on everyone agreeing to pretend. And here's this girl crying in corridors, saying his name, saying, I'm not over it. And in the face of a world that has every tool available to make sure no one does that, she is outrageously courageous. And yet we are invited by the text to find her exhausting. The reason Cho gets under our skin, the reason I think Harry prefers Jenny, the reason so many of us do, or at least did at the onset, is not because Cho is wrong. It's because many of us have internalized the same lesson that the wizarding world teaches everyone there. We have been socialized inside this text and outside of it to read emotional suppression as maturity and open grief as an imposition. Cho makes us uncomfortable because she is doing the thing that we have been taught not to do. She is naming the wound. She is keeping the dead real. She is asking to be met. And we have spent so long learning to admire people who don't ask that. So we've forgotten how to recognize courage when it shows up with tears in its eyes.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

We have read Snape's devastation as complexities for decades.

[Professor Julian Womble]

We find his damage fascinating because it has been channeled into something legible.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Control. Discipline.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Discipline and spectacle. But Jo's grief has no spectacle. It just sits there, asking for you

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

to recognize it for what it is.

[Professor Julian Womble]

She doesn't even ask you to grieve with her. She just wants you to sit with her. And no one does. Cho Cheng was never the problem. Honestly, she's the only person in the building telling the truth. The truth. Feeling the truth, living the truth. And the reality is, is that the fact that it took me this long to truly appreciate that

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

tells us a lot.

[Professor Julian Womble]

And I know it's not just me. I know that many of us gave

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

voice in the survey about their feelings of Chao,

[Professor Julian Womble]

the struggles that they had.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

And someone invited me to think about, you know, the idea of, you know, how do we understand her bravery and her showing up and fighting in the battle of Hogwarts? And after I read through the comments on the post episode chat and really sat with Cho for a little bit. Yeah, I mean, obviously fighting in the battle of Hogwarts is a really brave thing to do, but

[Professor Julian Womble]

crying at Hogwarts acknowledging the death of someone who you're

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

not supposed to acknowledge in the face of authoritarianism at your school. Living in that truth with someone who also recognizes the truth but is going about their process drastically different than yours and kind of gaslighting you into thinking that what you're doing is too much

[Professor Julian Womble]

and still doing it anyway. Recognizing that the person that that person

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

ends up with is someone who is prized because they don't do the thing that you do

[Professor Julian Womble]

and still doing it anyway. What's that quote? And yet she persisted. Yeah, that's brave to. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode, first of all, thank you.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Please feel free to like, rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pots are cast, y'.

[Professor Julian Womble]

All. Thank you so much for your patience.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Thank you so much for your thoughts. Thank you so much for your brilliance. This episode High Key blew my mind. I wasn't ready for it. Sometimes I script it, Sometimes I'm just vibing. Today I was vibing and I wasn't ready.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Cho, thank you for these lessons, girl.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

I cannot wait to see what you all write in the post episode chat.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Also, do not forget to comment on the survey on Dean Thomas.

[Podcast Host (Critical Magic Theory)]

Please feel free to follow me on social media at PROFW. On TikTok, Prof. JW on Instagram. Send me an email at criticalmagictheorygmail.com y'. All patreon.com criticalmagictheory everything is there. Join me there.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Until then, be critical and stay magical, my friends. Bye.