Prof Responds: D.A.D.A, Power, and the Politics of Fear

Summary

Critical Magic Theory with Prof. Julian Wamble

Episode: Prof Responds: D.A.D.A, Power, and the Politics of Fear

Date: May 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this “Prof Responds” installment, Professor Julian Wamble delves into the layers of meaning within the Defense Against the Dark Arts (D.A.D.A.) course at Hogwarts, exploring its significance not just as a plot device, but as a vehicle for propagating ideology and fear. Drawing from listener feedback via Discord, Patreon, and Spotify, Prof. Wamble unpacks how the D.A.D.A. classroom shapes student attitudes toward difference, danger, and the unseen mechanics of power—both in the Wizarding World and in our own society. The conversation moves from the infamous "curse" on the role, to curriculum ethics, to who gets to define "dark," ultimately connecting fantasy to real-world systems of dominance, fear, and education.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Curse of the Defense Against the Dark Arts Position

Timestamps: [13:57]–[24:37]

• Listener Theories: Discord, Patreon, and Spotify users debate the perpetually vacant D.A.D.A. role, asking why Hogwarts, or Dumbledore, never found a workaround to the curse Voldemort allegedly placed on the job.

  • Jaz on Discord: “After five to ten years of losing one teacher per year, surely Dumbledore clocked that Vold cursed the position... Maybe he did try to break the curse but couldn’t because there’s no way otherwise Dede [Dumbledore] would have just let it continue for 30 years.” [14:41]
  • Laurian: Suggests that maintaining the curse may actually serve the interests of Death Eater sympathizers in power, as it prevents robust anti-dark-arts training for students. [15:18]
  • Nadia on Patreon: Wonders if anyone even tried to work around or integrate the course content into other subjects—after all, curse-breakers exist! [15:54]
  • Jewel on Discord: Argues D.A.D.A. is "propaganda both against Dark Arts users as well as for those who go against them," feeding into the justice system’s entrenched biases. [16:22]

• Prof. Wamble’s Analysis:

  • Questions both the efficacy and the intentionality behind Dumbledore’s response—or lack thereof—to the curse.
  • Reframes the persistence of the course as a symptom of being “too married to tradition,” and perhaps a deliberate vehicle for ideological shaping:

  “There’s a way that a class that is about Defense against the Dark Arts already… tells you firsthand the problematic nature with which, like, certain things exist… It also tells you who the enemy is, which is also a harder thing to accomplish in a class where you’re learning about the skill sets, but you’re not necessarily learning about… the motivations behind these uses of hexes and curses.” [19:09]

• Propaganda & Indoctrination:

  • The class isn't just teaching defense—it’s socializing magical children into a particular worldview, setting up ideological boundaries of “good” versus “bad.”

  “Defense against the Dark Arts allows for us to be able to have a very clear understanding of who is good and who is bad… it invites us to really have such a myopic understanding of the world…” [20:47]

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2. Ethics, Agency, and the Problem of Consequences in Magical Education

Timestamps: [26:20]–[35:37]

• What Is Actually Taught?:

  • Listeners note a disturbing lack of focus on ethics and consequences in the way D.A.D.A. is taught—students aren’t made aware of harm from Memory Charms, side-effects of spells, or the moral weight of magical actions.
  • Nadia: “…the lack of informed consent in the teaching process or teaching about side effects… Are students taught that Memory Charms can permanently damage someone’s brain?” [27:16]
  • Laurian: “Given how pervasive the use of Memory Charms is in the wizarding world, the impression I get is they don’t care about consequences…” [28:15]
  • Rebecca: “What use is defense against the Dark Arts if students aren’t taught how to think clearly when faced with a Death Eater enemy?… You have to be able to implement what you learn when the stakes are high.” [29:43]

• Prof. Wamble’s Take:

  • Argues that consequence-blindness is embedded in wizarding pedagogy:

  “Magical people operate from a space of we can just fix it with magic. So consequences are inconsequential.” [27:46]

  • Points to “learned carelessness”—students assume magic can undo any harm, so there is little incentive to dwell on ethics or irreversible damage.
  • Apparition is cited as a case study: students only learn about “splinching” consequences after something goes wrong, reinforcing a trial-and-error approach.
  • Draws parallel to the dangers of real-world privileged spaces where mistakes are fixable and harms easily externalized.

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3. Who Defines “Dark”? The Politics of Power and Moral Boundaries

Timestamps: [37:11]–[59:34]

• Listener Reflections:

  • Laurian: Challenges who gets to define “unforgivable” in context, questioning whether intent or institution is what marks magic as “dark.” Cites Harry, the Ministry, and Umbridge as examples. [37:22]
  • Jazz: References Aurors’ sanctioned use of Unforgivables, drawing attention to normalized exceptions. [38:02]
  • Pahely DC (Spotify): Compares retaliatory use of dark curses by the oppressed to resistance during Stonewall—“violence is a response to violence that is already being systematically enacted.” [38:18]

• Prof. Wamble’s Dissection:

  • Examines Harry’s use of Unforgivables and other “dark” magic, noting the shifting moral calculus depending on who, why, and against whom the spell is cast.

  “If it feels justified, we’re totally okay with using it. Especially if it's like the ends justify the means... When you can engage with the usage of an unforgivable curse and you feel justified in doing so, like, it's okay, to say that you use dark magic like you did. That's what you did.” [41:09]

  • Raises questions about double standards (Harry’s vs. “villain’s” use of force), and how moral ambiguity is navigated in a tightly controlled hierarchy.
  • Connects to the broader question: Is “darkness” an inherent quality, or a label attached for institutional convenience?

  “…justice seemingly is in the eye of the beholder and darkness as a result of that particular mentality is also in the eye of the beholder.” [41:49]

• Intersection with Social Hierarchies:

  • Dives deeper, comparing the naming of “darkness” in D.A.D.A. to who society decides to fear or distrust: werewolves, goblins, centaurs, etc. aren’t inherently dangerous, they simply don’t “submit to our order.” [53:18]

  “The darkness, in each case, is really just: this thing does not submit to our order. And that frightens us because we don’t see that for house elves, right?... Once the fear gets named as darkness, there is permission to subjugate it without ever having to examine what is actually underneath.” [54:17]

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4. D.A.D.A. as an Instrument of Social Conditioning

Timestamps: [53:00]–[59:34]

• Curriculum as Control:

  • Prof. Wamble argues that D.A.D.A. classifies and reproduces hierarchies via institutional fear—not unlike how real-world history, civics, and literature courses socialize students:

  "The conditioning that happens in our own world... is occurring through the media, through where we live, through the visible presence of law enforcement..." [53:00]

  • In a society where culture isn’t passed through mass media or constant social interaction, Hogwarts has to be explicit—using D.A.D.A. to make "approved" monsters and dangers tangible.

• Radical Alternatives:

  • Dumbledore’s Army represents a counter-model for agency and critical thinking:

  "Dumbledore's Army is radical precisely because it refuses that bargain. It says, no, we are not waiting for the authorized defenders. We are going to learn this ourselves. And Umbridge calls it sedition, because that is exactly what it is to me." [56:58]

  • Wamble imagines what a defensible class might look like: not teaching spells first, but teaching students to interrogate their fears—why they are afraid, and who taught them to be.

  "A real Defense against the Dark Arts class would not start with spells. It would start with fear. It would ask students to name what they are afraid of before anyone tells them what to call it." [58:08]

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it.” – Prof. Julian Wamble [01:35]
• “Maybe the actual curse on the position is not the one that Voldemort placed on it. Maybe the curse is that an institution can't survive the truth.” – Prof. Julian Wamble [58:36]
• “The privilege of magic allows for them to see the problems of others as simply being things that are easily fixed or not at all an issue whatsoever.” – Prof. Julian Wamble [31:01]
• “It’s not the perception of superiority. It’s fear… A world where things that look like defense are actually domination, and what looks like protection is actually terror.” – Prof. Julian Wamble [52:30]

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Listener Engagement and Meta-Commentary

• Prof. Wamble weaves in audience questions, showing deep respect and gratitude for the podcast community that drives the show’s unique blend of fandom and scholarly critique.
• Plans for upcoming episodes (e.g., deep dive into Seamus, the Battle of Hogwarts, and eventually Harry Potter himself) encourage further participation: “If you are going to write an essay, if you are feeling particularly loquacious and you're like, I've got to get these thoughts out, it is time to get ready…” [06:12]

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Overall Tone & Style

• Prof. Wamble’s style is conversational, witty, and layered—moving fluidly between playful commentary, personal storytelling (“karaoke with my best friend…”), and sharp critical theory.
• The episode consistently challenges the audience to reflect on both wizarding and real-world systems, emphasizing the necessity of questioning power, tradition, and social narratives—while always keeping the engagement lively and accessible.

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Conclusion

This episode of Critical Magic Theory offers a multi-dimensional critique of the D.A.D.A. class, revealing it as a powerful metaphor for how societies teach fear, establish hierarchies, and define “the other.” Through close reading, community insight, and social analysis, Prof. Wamble invites listeners to consider the costs of uncritical education—both magical and mundane—and what it takes to break the real curses of our institutions.

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Summary by Section with Timestamps

• Opening and Community Update: [01:35–12:18]
  Community engagement, upcoming schedule, and invitation to participate in ongoing conversation.

• Theme 1: The Curse and History of D.A.D.A.: [13:57–24:37]
  Discussion of the “cursed” faculty role and the implications for Hogwarts’ educational priorities.

• Theme 2: What Are They Really Teaching? Ethics, Agency, and Magical Consequences: [26:20–35:37]
  Critique of ethical gaps and lack of accountability in the magical curriculum.

• Theme 3: Who Gets to Define ‘Dark’? The Politics of Power: [37:11–53:00]
  Examination of how “dark” is socially constructed and who benefits from that construction.

• Theme 4: Power, Fear, and the Purpose of D.A.D.A.: [53:00–59:34]
  D.A.D.A as explicit institutional socialization, and the radical alternatives imagined by students.

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For further engagement:

• Join discussion via Discord, Patreon, or Spotify (see Prof. Wamble’s social accounts)
• Next up: an episode on Seamus, followed by deep dives into Harry Potter and Muggleborn experience

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Be critical and stay magical, friends.

Transcript

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[Professor Julian Womble]

Oh, no.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

Welcome to Critical Magic Theory where we deconstruct the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. You all know I'm Professor Julian Womble and today, today, today we are doing our Prof. Response episode on our discussion of the Defense against the Dark Arts course. Course, y'. All. You know, whenever I do things like this and I know we've been deviating a bit, life has been lifing and so we've been pivoting, calling audibles, all of that kind of thing and I'm always like, well, is there going to be enough to like have a response episode? Do we go straight in? And then many of you show up in the post episode chat, there's a whole pretty much ongoing discussion of the episode on the Discord for Chronic Overthinkers and Deep Diver. And then there is a discussion that's being had on the Spotify. On Spotify. And so what I did today was I decided that I was going to just pull from all of those different places and there were plenty of things that came up for us. And so I'm actually very excited to. Not actually, but I'm very excited to dive into some of what you all were able to bring to us in those conversations. Because I think there is a world where we look at Defense against the Dark Arts and it feels so self evident as to why it's important when we look at the state of the magical world when we enter in, right? Like Voldiva has run amok not once but twice. And so it makes sense by the time we get to the fifth book, it's the Wild Wild west, right? And you can't trust the government because they are so focused on trying to make sure that everyone feels safe without actually being safe. And then you have Umbridge coming in and she's operating from the space of whatever the Ministry wants is what the ministry gets. And so the fervor with which we come to understand the importance of a Defense against the Dark Arts is undeniable. Right? Like, we know that it is important. And so part of what I hope we dive into in this episode and what you all really got into in the various post episode conversations that occurred allows us to dive into these questions in a meaningful way. Because I do think that there is a world where, like, Defense against the Dark Arts feels outrageously important. And I think the question that we kind of have to grapple with is important. To what end? What is it that it's bringing to bear for the people in the magical world? What institutions benefit from it being taught and who doesn't benefit from it being taught? And there was an interesting question that we're gonna dive into as well as, like, what is the Defense against the Dark Arts in our own lives and our own education? And how do we understand the idea of, like, what does it mean to have a class like that? What is it trying to do? And what class or classes do we have in our own educational systems that. That promote the same kind of ideas and ideology that we see kind of put forth in Defense against the Dark Arts? And what are the similarities and what are the differences? We are getting into all of it today. And I have to say, you're going to be getting vocals. I was away this weekend and I did karaoke with my best friend at his house because, you know, I can't, I can't spoil the people of the world. Like, I spoil you all with the vocals. And so, you know, it's one of those things that, you know when you do karaoke and you, like, you're not supposed to sound, like, good at karaoke. And I'm too vain to actively sound bad. I mean, I sound bad for you all the time, but that's just love, okay? And so we were at his house and. And I was like, oh, wait, the vocals are vocaling. And then the next day my voice said, byee, see you later. Be critical. Stay magical king, but you don't have me. But now it's back and I couldn't be happier. Thank goodness. And so you might be getting a vocal or two, but before you get a vocal or two or three, you know what's coming. You know what has to be bars the bop. Because once you bop, the fun don't stop. And so we're gonna bop. So get yourselves together, get yourselves ready. In three, in two, in one. Let's bop. We need something for Harry Pot. Sam. I hope you danced, y'. All. There's a couple of housekeeping things I want to get into before we dive directly into the episode and the themes therein. Because I know that we've been pivoting and moving around and having audibles and all the things. And so I want to kind of catch us up on where we are and where we are going. And so I think that what we're going to do, I don't think what I know is that what we're gonna do is we are going to have this episode, then we're gonna have Seamus. I'm gonna send out the survey to the listserv on Saturday so that you have the weekend. Then I'm gonna record the shameless episode and then we are going to do our episode on Seamus and then our Prof. Response episode on Seamus. And then after that, we are going to get into the conversation about Diva Down. Now, I know that we are removed and we will probably be about a month removed, but I wanted to have a conversation, including Seamus, about the Battle of Hogwarts, also known as Diva down 2 Voldiva Tutalu, which Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant comment that was left for us and on Spotify and it was so amazing. And so it had to be included because. What do you mean? It's so good? And so then we will have that, and we'll have a response episode for that, undoubtedly. And then we will dive into Harry and we will do two full episodes on Harry and two Prof. Response episodes on Harry. That survey will be available for you probably after the Seamus so that you will have plenty of time. But you have been warned for weeks and weeks and weeks. So if you are going to write an essay, if you are feeling particularly loquacious and you're like, I've got to get these thoughts out, it is time to get ready to go because we are going to go. And then I have to decide if we are going to go directly into muggleborns or if we'll take a beat for the summer and do kind of what we did before, where we did the episodes on the houses. But instead of doing that or houses rather, I'm gonna do some open ended, like what do you think we should talk about? What are topics that you wanna talk about? Many of you really like this particular conversation about Defense against the Dark Arts and kind of deep diving into that. Because what I want to do for the summer is kind of prerecord a bunch of episodes so that I can actually have a summer and then just set them to drop for us to have conversations about. And so that is the ideal. And it was suggested to me by someone on Spotify who I can't name because my Spotify refuses to let me be great right now and get the name of the person who wrote it. But anyways, that we can. That you all can add your own questions, your own things that you're curious about. And then from there we can compile a cool list that I can probably do some recordings of over the summer so that you all will have episodes. But it doesn't require me to have to like sit down every week like I do now because I can't batch record episodes when we have surveys. So if we don't have surveys then I can batch record amazing work. And so start thinking about that because that question will be coming to us as we get through the Harry Potter episodes. And then I think through there we'll be able to go and have things to talk about while also me taking a break and save our time so that by the time we come back from summer and everyone has caught up and we have all the things, then we can talk about Muggle Borns and then we can figure out where we're going to go from Muggle Borns because there's a couple directions we could go in. Anyways, that's the plan. That's the map. That's what we're thinking. Okay. Okay. As always, follow me on social media, Prof. J.W. on Instagram profw. On TikTok criticalmagictheater.com is where the website is and you can go there for merch. Summer is coming. I have to go and look at these crop tops. I think I need to get one. Yeah, I need to order mine before you all do. Before I go on vacation. Anyways, that's not the point. You will see those coming soon. And yeah, patreon.com criticalmagictheory is where you can join for all the convos. Okay. Anyways, let's get into it. We've dillied, we've dallied, we've delayed and now it's time to get to it.

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[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.

[Liberty Mutual Partner]

Hey everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this, your first date?

[Professor Julian Womble]

Oh no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual. Together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Partner]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Liberty Mutual Partner]

Liberty. Liberty. Liberty. Liberty.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

The first theme that came up for us was one that was really focused on the curse of the Defense against the Dark Arts class. Now we learn at least the speculation of a curse from Dumbledore because we know that Voldiva showed up and was basically like, give me that job. And Dumbledore said, no girl, you're not gonna get it. And he said that's fine, but I am gonna curse it. And so he did. And from that moment, right. Like we for the entirety of the series never have the same Defense against the Dark Arts professor twice. And it's become part of the lore that the job is cursed. It's become part of the lore and it's kind of validated by Dumbledore that this was something that Voldemort did. And so the questions that came up surrounding this were really ones about like what interventions were put into place to try to mitigate the curse and were any made at all? And if not, kind of how do we reconcile that? And Jaz wrote in the Discord, I think I have to believe they tried and failed to break or get around the curse. Like after five to ten years of losing one teacher per year, surely Dumbledore clocked that Vold cursed the position when he was denied it. Maybe he did try to break the curse but couldn't because there's no way otherwise Dede, that's Dumbledore would have just let it continue for 30 years. Right, right. Laurian wrote, or worse. Lucius Malfoy is chair of governors. He probably knows it's cursed given his links to Voldy, but it's also an interest, it's in his interest as a Death Eater to prevent students from being being trained in defense. Nadia wrote on the Patreon, it doesn't seem so complicated to find a workaround to the curse against Defense against the Dark Arts which may well not have worked given we know Voldiva is very smart, but we are never told this is even attempted curse breakers exist. Was it tried? Defense against the Dark Arts is basically a mix of charms, care for magical creatures and a little bit of herbology. Why not give extra time to these classes and introduce magical ethics to teach about consent agency critical thinking. And Jewel wrote in the discourse you said, meaning me, Defense against the Dark Arts was not important until Harry and Co's third year and I want to push back against that. Yes, when it came to the day to day lives of the students it was not important. But as a propaganda tool, I think it is propaganda both against Dark Arts users as well as for those who go against them. Not necessarily that an individual student would buy into the propaganda in their day to day lives, but that over time these attitudes would seep in such that the effed up magic justice system with its very arcane sentencing and judging would persist. It's My turn. Here's the thing, y'. All, and this is something that, as I was reading through these comments and really diving into the details, I was like, why not just restructure the class? Why not name it something else? Like, you mean to tell me that the curse that Voldiva put on this thing was so complete that there was no workaround? Like, I simply don't believe that they tried. I know that we. Some of us want to have faith in Dumbledaddy, but I don't. I don't have faith in him. I think that there's a way that, you know, one, I just don't think he paid that much attention to it. Two, I have questions about, like, just the understanding of, you know, how do you even know that a thing has been cursed, Right? Like, could it be that the class is just garbage and people don't wanna teach it? Could it be that people see it as an opportunity to kind of rise through the ranks and then go and do something else? Like. And what's more is I'm like, were there really that many people that you could for 30 years or 20? Cause I guess he came to try to get the job in the 70s so that for almost 30 years, like, you had that many people who you could just rotate through and they could just come and go, right? Like, that's crazy. And again, I'm like, to Nadia's point, why not just incorporate some of these other dynamics into the. Why not incorporate them into other courses so that then you don't even have to have a Defense against a Dark Arts class, but it's just something that exists across all. All of the courses, right? You know, as a person who teaches a lot on, you know, black people and black voters in the American context, one of the things that I do right, is I incorporate a lot of history into my class. And I also, when I'm teaching, like, Introduction to American Politics, most of the books don't include a lot of things about, you know, the history of the United States or, you know, you know, black people's space in that history, or even indigenous people or people from other minoritized populations. And so you incorporate it in and you build out the class so that it kind of incorporates and includes all of these things. And it just seems to me so absurd that no one thought, like, maybe to get around the course, we will just not have it, and we can teach these things in other spaces and places. Like, if we're learning about curse hexes and jinx, like, you can learn about that in charms, you can learn about, like, dangerous transfigurations and transfiguration classes, you can learn about dangerous plants. In herbology, you can learn about dangerous creatures and care for magical creatures. You can do all of that, right? Like, those are things that are possible. And so the persistence of dumblezaddy to keep this thing going tells us a story about how we're meant to understand the purposes of this course. But also it also tells us what happens when you're too married to tradition, right? Like, when it's the. Well, we've always had this course, so I guess we have to keep it type vibe. And then to Jules point, right? There's also something to be said about the potential ulterior motive that exists that this class offers, right? Which is the indoctrination factor, right? What does this class actually teach its students outside of defending against the Dark arts? It also allows for them to see the world in a very specific way. And it's a way that is, like, sanctioned by the government as to what is dark, what a dark creature is, how we're meant to understand it. Now, mind you, the kind of workaround that I offered gives us a sense that you could still do all of that. But I think that there's a way that a class that is about Defense against the Dark Arts already tell, like, it tells you firsthand the problematic nature with which, like, certain things exist, right? Like, if you're learning about something in this class, it is inherently called a dark art. And then that also means then that other things that you might be learning, both, you know, whether you're at home or whatever, isn't gonna fall into this particular category. It also tells you who the enemy is, which is also a harder thing to accomplish in a class where, you know, you're learning about the skill sets, but you're not necessarily learning about, like, who's using them, the trademarks of those things, how we're meant to understand, like, you know, the motivations behind these. You know, the uses of these hexes and curses and, you know, all of that stuff, right? And so in that way, Defense against the Dark Arts allows for us to be able to have a very clear understanding of who is good and who is bad. The problem with this is that it invites us to really have such a myopic understanding of the world that we live in. And I think that that's kind of the point, right? Like, the notion of this class as a vehicle for propaganda. And one of the things that I. We're gonna talk about, you know, throughout the episode is the role that fear plays here. Right. And I think that that plays a really big role in how people understand good and evil. Things that we are afraid of tend to be things that we would characterize as evil, especially when you're young, especially when you don't have a lot of guidance in terms of, you know, in terms of your morality and your understandings of what is moral and what is not. Right. There's not a lot of nuance in the idea of Dark Arts. Right. And it's not until, you know, other conversations that we hear had where people start to introduce the idea that, like, well, maybe the things that we consider to be good can be used for bad or the things that are bad, like the unforgivable curses can be used by people who would. We would characterize as good. Right. Say Aurors. Right. And so that there is a world in which, like, all of that nuance can either be offered or not offered. And you have a lot more control over what your students know and understand when you put them in a position like the position they're in when they're in defense against the Dark Arts. And so I think that the reason why this class persists despite the curse is that it serves a meaningful role in the way that magical children are socialized and the things that they're taught to understand. And if a couple people drop, maybe, and to another point that was made, like, not everybody dies, right? Some people get maimed, some people get hurt, but they don't always drop dead. So it's like, well, is it really that bad of a curse? I'm not saying it isn't, but I'm just saying that, like, in the magical world, you know, if the malady is something that can be cured, then, like, how bad truly was it? I think that there is a way that it feels like it's worth it in the end, if students walk away with the ideological lean that you want them to have.

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The next theme that came up was one that asked a very simple question, which is, what the hell are they teaching in defense against the Dark Arts? Because there are a lot of things that we see learned in this class, but then we also then see magic used in ways that are so subversive to people's agency and the notion of, like, a lack of ethics that exists just in the magical world, broadly construed, Right? Like, there's no sense of, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. Right? It's kind of like with great power comes the ability to do whatever you want and get away with it. Cause you can wipe people's memories. Right? And so that there is this idea that Hogwarts really doesn't offer the students an understanding of consequences. Right. Because one of the things that we've learned. And I said this before, right. Like, magical people operate from a space of we can just fix it with magic. So consequences are inconsequential. That was a bar, but it wasn't a rhyming one. Okay, that's okay. And so that a lot of people occupy a space of thinking like, well, if anything's broken, we can fix it. That's what skelegro is for. Or, you know, you broke your nose a quick apiskey. Or, oh, a person saw something. Well, just modify their memory. Or without much thinking about the implications of any of those decisions. And, you know, perhaps the idea that as a magical person, you don't just Go around doing whatever you want all willy nilly with the belief that, like, you're gonna be okay and that you can just do whatever you want to fix it. Right? Nadia writes, I'm thinking about the lack of informed consent in the teaching process or teaching about side effects. Are students taught that Memory Charms can permanently damage someone's brain? They see people fall over in the Dueling Club, but nobody says this is normal when this spell is done versus you aimed at the wrong spot. So they're just guessing if that's a technique issue or not. There is very little discussion of consequences. Lorian wrote, given how pervasive the use of Memory Charms is in the wizarding world, the impression I get is that they don't care about the consequences or which makes me think they aren't taught about them. And I have no issue extending that to all magic. Fenty wrote, Indeed, you could argue no one in the wizarding world actually takes it seriously enough. If they did, maybe History of Magic and Defense against the Dark Arts would have crossover. So students learned from what happened in previous centuries and learn how to recognize danger and question systems. But the Ministry of Magic wouldn't like wizards to question their authority, would they? And Rebecca wrote, one thing that occurred to me is what use is defense against the Dark Arts if students aren't taught how to think clearly when faced with a Death Eater enemy? It's not enough to learn and practice in class. You have to be able to implement what you learn when the stakes are high. That's something Hermione struggles with. Like the time she failed at facing the Boggart in her final Defense against the Dark Arts exam in year three. It's my turn. Oh, that was fancy. That was fancy, y'. All. That was fancy. One of the things that comes up for me when I think about what is actually being taught, right? So some people ask questions, right? About, like, what do they think about the side effects? I don't think that they learn about side effects at all in any capacity. I think what you see is what you get. I think that we are not experiencing people. I think, like, even we think about the idea of, like, apparition, for example, right? Like, they don't even tell you what happens if you do it wrong until someone gets blenched, right? That there is a world in which, like, you don't learn about the consequences. And I think part of this is that there is a presumption that even when you're in school, that when you go home and practice all this stuff, your parents will Teach you the consequences, right? And I think that's the case because when we think about, like, underage wizardry and the way that the trace works and the kind of decree against the use of underage magic, right? It's. It all works in the idea that, like, magical parents will be the ones to enforce the rules and this. Their kids will just, like, figure it out and, like, learn from them. But again, like, if apparition is any sort of indication, what we learn, right, is that, like. And it's not until someone actually splinches and they're like, oh, my God. And then. But even then, the ministry aid is basically like, well, you did. You messed up one of the Ds, so that's your fault. Like, figure it out, fix it. We'll put you back together again and we'll keep it moving. And I think that this is the mentality of the magical world where it's like, consequences don't really count if there aren't any, because magic can fix them. And so, like, sure, it may hurt a little bit for a little while, but, like, in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't really even matter. And I also think apparition's a really good example of this because even though they saw someone in the practice for apparition get splinched, everyone, like, kind of, like, chuckled about it. And it wasn't until Ron got in Deathly Hallows, where Harry literally says, I didn't realize it could be this bad. I always thought of it as something that was more, like, funny and not anything that was, like, meaningfully dangerous and problematic. And I think that that is so meaningful because it tells us, right, that the magical world does not teach them about the, like, when things go wrong, right? And there is a really bad problem that I think maps onto what it is that Rebecca brought to bear, which is like, not only what do you do on the ground when you're, like, actually fighting against dark arts or the wielders of the dark arts, right? But also what happens when the thing you try to do doesn't work. Like, how do you pivot? What do you do? How are you supposed to learn? Like, thinking on your feet, having to do well. Like, none of that is stuff that you learn in school, right? Like, Harry learns most of that. Hermione and Ron learn most of that while actually doing it, right? Like, Hermione is so good at thinking of things on the fly. Like when the Death Eaters come to Xenophilius House in Deathly Hallows and she, like, blows up the arumpant horn or when Nagini is running around and she does the. What is it? The Confringo curse. I can't remember the spell, but the one that ricochets and pranks Harry's wand, right? And then jumps out of a window and Apparates, you know, in midair. You know, that there's a way that she's very good at that, but they don't teach you that. That's something that you kind of have to learn. And when we think about, you know, memory charms. Don't even get me started on memory charms. But a little bit. There is a way that they occupy a space of being so pervasive in the. In the world that I don't think that people actually think that they cause harm. Right. And then when we look at Gilderoy Lockhart, when we look at Bertha Jorkins, like, there are so many instances where our understanding of what is acceptable, of what is true. Right. It's also to the point where Mr. Weasley actually is like when the Roberts are getting memory charms placed on them all the time and Harry notices that something's off and Mr. Weasley's like, oh, he'll be fine. Like, don't even worry about it. It's all right. They don't care because there's a world in which, like, the privilege of magic allows for them to see the problems of others as simply being things that are easily fixed or not at all an issue whatsoever. And that, like, they're not socialized to believe or understand the world in those specific ways. And so they don't. They just don't. They don't consider those things. And I think that there's something very meaningful about the fact that they don't because it offers them the ability to absolve themselves in ways that I think make them feel better about the things that they are doing. And so I think that, like, taken together, what this helps us really understand is the fact that, like, Defense against the Dark Arts, and I would argue any class. Right. Operates from the very privileged magical space of one, not having to ask for permission in any capacity to. Two, the belief that if a mistake is made, you'll simply learn from it because we can fix it. And three, that consequences are really inconsequential to the point where we don't actually have to engage in any meaningful discourse about what could happen. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. And that, I think, is kind of the hallmark of magical education at Hogwarts And I think that Defense against the Dark Arts is just an example of that.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

The third theme that we looked at is one that really engages with who gets to define what dark magic is and how we understand certain things that are characterized as dark magic and how they work. Right? Laurian wrote, are we being invited to consider that the Unforgivables are justified if we agree with motive? I think personally we're just being invited to think about if the curses themselves are always bad or if it's the cause. Cause we see two characters use them in circumstances where, depending on your perspective, the government could potentially see as justified Harry against Bellatrix and then the green gods Goblin and Umbridge against Harry. Cause she's trying to get information about Dumbledore, who at the time is considered by the Ministry as an enemy. Jazz kind of co signs this and asks, didn't Crouch Sr. Authorize Aurors to use Unforgivables on Death Eaters during the First War too? Pahely DC Wrote on Spotify, I Like this episode and the discussion of morally gray territories, for example, with the Carrows. To me, I see using Unforgivables against them as analogous to throwing bricks at cops during Stonewall riots. There is a clear power dynamic and the violence is a response to violence that is already being systematically enacted. Open to having my mind changed. It's my turn. I'm really giving you all something today. And to that I say, you're welcome. This is really important for us to think about because I think that this is kind of at the crux of our understanding of kind of ethics and morality. Right. Is something like the Unforgivable Curses. We see them used in many different ways by many different characters for many different reasons. And there is a world in which we are invited to really consider the fact that, like, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I will say that we see Harry use the Unforgivable Curses in a number of ways. The first is Bellatrix. The second is against the Gringotts Goblin. The third is against the Karos, right? And we see him do the Cruciatus Curse twice and the Imperius Curse, I think actually twice, because I think he also does it on a couple of people. Or maybe that's only in the movies, but either way, I know he does it once in the. When they. When they're breaking in the Green Gods, but I think that there's a world in which we're invited to say, well, yeah, like you kind of have. You have to. Like, this is a necessity, right? Like he. But although I'm like the breaking into Gringotts, we know he had to do Bellatrix. That's an emotional response. Whichever, Karo, it was again, an emotional response. How do we reconcile that idea? Right? We know that Barty Crouch Sr. Did authorize the use of the Unforgivables against Death Eaters during the height of the First War because it was like, we gotta fight fire with fire. And there's a really interesting way of thinking about this. And I know, okay, I'm gonna bring this up, but only because I think it actually does fit into the theme in this conversation. So in the fanfiction that is no longer available, Manacled, one of the big conversations is about the usage of dark magic, right? And in the text, Hermione is like, we've got to do what we've got to do to win this war. People are dying, things are bad. Like the idea that we are going to be so self righteous and sanctimonious is really annoying because it's ineffective. And Harry and Ron are like, we can't be like them. We don't want to be like them. And we see the seeds of that particular ideology, particularly from Harry, planted in Deathly Hallows. When Lupin tells him after they leave on his birthday and everyone is. The Death Eaters are running amok right above Privet Drive. And Harry's using Expelliarmus. And that's his kind of, you know, claim to fame, his tell. And Voldiva flies in and is like, hey, girl, it's me. You want to die tonight? And Lupin's like, dude, you need to choose other curses. Like, you can't just try to disarm people. You need. You're fighting for your life. Like, you have to make decisions in order that are going to protect you because you have to stay alive. And disarming people is simply just not it. You're not a child anymore. You have to start making big boy decisions. And Harry's like, not gonna be like them. I'm not gonna be like those Death Eaters. I'm like, that makes us no better than them. Blah, blah, blah. Fast forward Imperious curse. Fast forward Cruciata's curse. Right? There is a way, I think, that when we think about the necessity of certain aspects of dark magic, if that's what we wanna call it, I think that there's a world where if it feels justified, we're totally okay with using it. Especially if it's like the ends justify the means, right? But it's also fascinating to think about because when we look at Harry's usage of the Unforgivable curses, at least by my estimation, there's only one that is justified, right? Like him using. Which isn't to say that I don't understand why he used the Cruciatus Curse against Bellatrix or whichever. Caro. Like, I get it. I understand that. But I also do think that there is a world where it's like, does that make it right? Does that make it good? And do we. How do we understand that? And I think that part of what we're witnessing here and the danger of some of the. Of what we're invited to think about without thinking about it critically, is that, like, justice seemingly is in the eye of the beholder and darkness as a result of that particular mentality is also in the eye of the beholder. Because when you can engage with the usage of an unforgivable curse and you feel justified in doing so, like, it's okay, to say that you use dark magic like you did. That's what you did. And I think the other thing that's so fascinating, right, is that, like, we don't see the ease with which you can slip into it, right? Like, I think of the sectum sempera of it, all, right? The idea that Harry used it on Malfoy knowing that it was at least four enemies and it felt justified because that's how we would characterize his relationship with Draco, right? That it is one where they are enemies and they were dueling. And Harry's like, what? This is the perfect time. And then he realizes very quickly upon, like, Draco being on the floor bleeding out, like, oh, wow, that is dark magic. And I think this goes back to the last theme, right, which is that there is a very kind of rudimentary naivete surrounding what dark magic actually is and what it actually looks like. And that there is a world where, like, oh, no, no, no. It can cause real harm. And like, for example, as well, right? For example, as well. For example, the Mobilicorpus spell that Harry uses on Ron that kind of hangs him up by his ankle in half. Blood Prince. We then see that same spell used against Snape by the Marauders. Or is it Levicorpus? It's Levicorpus. Excuse me. Mobilicorpus is something else. It's Levicorpus. The idea that, like, in one context, it is problematic. And we have said that, and we know that people are really disconcerted by it because now that we're gonna have a Black Snape in the TV show, people are worried that that's going to project a very particular image. Because if it is true that we are gonna have white Marauders and now they're doing this to this Black Snape, it's gonna look bad to us. And it's like, so was it not bad before or is it bad now? And when you juxtapose their usage of it to Harry's usage of it, one feels innocuous and silly, the other one feels problematic. And so the idea of. And I think what all of this taps into is like, what the hell is a dark art? Is it a dark art when Harry does it? Like when Harry casts a cruciatus curse? Because, I mean, and the answer could easily be, yeah, it is a dark art. We're just okay with it. Like, we're fine with him doing that, because it is what it is. And sometimes you have to. Right. Is it a dark art when he uses it against the goblin in, in Deathly Hallows, the answer could easily be yes. Was it a dark art when Barty Crouch Sr. Was using it against Death Eaters? Right. Like, I mean, we say fight fire with fire. The reality is, is that they're both fire. And I don't mean that in like the Gen Z way. Like, I mean that in like literal fire. Anyways. You get what I'm saying, friends? Don't be silly. Don't be silly. I think that what defense against the Dark Arts and everything that we're taught about it really does highlight the reality that like, dark art is whatever we define it to be. And we can see the danger in that. Right? Right. That like, contextually we can see and understand, like, what we would call something evil and bad. And I think that there is. I think that that's the downside of like, attaching morality to certain actions. Because in reality we can switch around, like, circumstance and make something be so much more, like, less. We can make something that is seemingly amoral feel moral in a particular context. And how do we reconcile that and how much nuance do we offer to explain it away? And I think that, you know, what's true is that the Ministry of Magic and Dumblediva and everyone here, they all benefit from the fact that these are practices that are very nebulous in a lot of ways and do have a lot of kind of wiggle room in terms of our understanding of it and what we as readers are okay with. And then, and that's for things that we know are problematic, like the unforgivable curses, which is to say nothing of love potions and memory charms and any of the other things that are, you know, used against non magical and magical people with impunity. Right. And so there's a way that we have to kind of really grapple with what it is that we're okay with and what the circumstances underneath all of that are that kind of allow for us to feel that the actions taken are justified and necessary. We've now reached the point in the episode where I'm going to reflect on the various conversations that were had surrounding this idea of how we understand defense against the Dark Arts, in particular, what kind of analogs we have in our own world and what a real defense against the Dark Arts class might look like. And across Discord, patreon, Spotify my DMs. Over the last several days, many of us have kind of come at this question, maybe not directly or intentionally, but we've tried to figure out how this class works and what would make it better, Right? And I think that there is a way that we have kind of stumbled upon something. And I think part of what many of us touched on wasn't anything that had to do with dueling or, you know, the nuances and the kind of nitty gritty of the course itself in terms of what it teaches, but rather power and the role that power plays in the way that we understand what a dark art is. Who is a purveyor of Dark arts when a dark art is a dark art, right? And to me, it seems that the reason Defense against the Dark Arts has to exist as a class at all, the reason Hogwarts needs a room and a teacher and a curriculum devoted to naming what is dark is that the wizarding world is closed, deliberately hidden and deeply insular. The conditioning that happens in our own world, right, is occurring through the media, through where we live, through the visible presence of law enforcement and other sort of social enforcement practices and tools that exist. And that teaches us who gets to be the hero, who is the villain, who is deserving of suspicion, who is deserving of glory. But the wizarding world has to do that work explicitly in a classroom, because they don't have other means of transmitting that information to its citizenry. They need a teacher to tell them what to fear, because the culture itself isn't already telling them before they arrive at school. In a society with a more porous cultural border, you wouldn't need to name darkness in a curriculum. The fear would already be instilled. The stereotypes, the stigmas, the prejudices, all of that would be explicitly and implicitly pumped into our minds, as it often is. The hierarchy would already feel natural. The approved list of evildoers, of monsters would already be operating in the background of every story we ever consumed before, before we would walk into any sort of educational space. I was watching something recently that made this clear, and I haven't really been able to shake it. I was watching this story, and I think the same thing is true in the wizarding world, although to a lesser extent. And it was these two podcasters, two men, which I'm normally very skeptical of. But in this case, they were onto something. And they were talking about how in the United States context, you know, if it was true that white individuals believed that black people were inferior, why would you deny resources? Like, if the belief is that you are just biologically better, more intelligent, more adept at navigating social space, more nuanced, just better, then taking away resources wouldn't even be Necessary, because there's, like, in no world would you ever be able to catch up with us, right? Like, it doesn't even matter. Like, you can't sit with us, right? And. And we don't need to try to make that harder for you because it doesn't matter what you do. You just won't be able to do it. And so these two men are having this conversation, and he's like, it's not the perception of superiority. It's fear. And that is what makes you operate the way that you do, right? It's fear masked as superiority, as safety, as civilization, in that masking. A world where things that look like defense are actually domination and what looks like protection is actually terror. And I think that defense against the Dark Arts runs on that same logic. The things in the wizarding world that are called dark are called dark because they are feared, not because they are seemingly inherently dangerous. Werewolves are controlled because their bodies transform in ways that cannot be managed or predicted. And that loss of control is intolerable to a society organized around magical hierarchy. Goblins are distrusted because they control wealth without owing political loyalty to wizarding institutions. Centaurs are marginalized because they refuse to be ruled. The darkness, in each case, is really just. This thing does not submit to our order. And that frightens us because we don't see that for house elves, right? Like, we don't see that for creatures that are seemingly able to be controlled. And once the fear gets named as darkness, there is permission to subjugate it without ever having to examine what is actually underneath. That is what this class teaches. It takes what the institution is afraid of, gives it a name, builds a curriculum around it, and trains students to accept the naming as settled fact. So by the time the student has sat through seven years of Defense against the Dark Arts, the approved list of monsters feels like a reality rather than a choice someone made about what to call dangerous. In our world, the fear gets distributed across subjects so that no single course has to bear the weight of naming what we consider to be amoral, evil, problematic. History tells us who the villains were and whose resistance was terrorism. Civics classes tells us what the legitimate institutions are and what threatens them. Literature gives us the moral templates, the heroes and the monsters, the stories that preload our sympathies before we've developed the language to actually interrogate them. The media does it. Our neighborhood composition does it. The presence of certain kinds of policing in certain areas of the community does it. By the time someone enters into this world as a student the fear is palpable. It is entrenched in the very personal architecture of an individual. So schools don't need to teach us what to be afraid of. It only needs to teach us who are the people that we should be placing our trust in. That is what Defense against the Dark Arts actually teaches at Hogwarts. Two students are not being trained toward autonomy. They are being trained toward recognition. Here is a legitimate authority. Here is what protects. Here is what protects you from the dangers that exist out in the world. Trust it to do the defending. Dumbledore's army is radical precisely because it refuses that bargain. It says, no, we are not waiting for the authorized defenders. We are going to learn this ourselves. And Umbridge calls it sedition, because that is exactly what it is to me. A real Defense against the Dark Arts class would not start with spells. It would start with fear. It would ask students to name what they are afraid of before anyone tells them what to call it. Right? When the students are standing there in front of this boggart and they are navigating their greatest fears, they are, these are things that they have been taught to think about, right? And some of them make sense. Spiders. Absolutely. And I know like they're good and they, you know, keep the bugs away. But like, I get it, everything about those things are personal though, right? Like your personal fears. Right. That's not what Defense against the Dark Arts is, is doing. Right. It's not helping you navigate your personal fear, your individualized fear. It's promoting a structural and institutional understanding of the things that you should be afraid of. The people, the creatures, the, the, the ideologies that you should be afraid of. And that is different because the moment you teach students to ask, why are we afraid of this? You risk them turning that question on the curriculum itself, on the school, on the Ministry, on the whole enterprise of naming darkness that keeps hierarchies in place. Because this same fear is what leads people to believe that they are better than non magical people. Right? It's the same thing that leads purebloods to believe that they're better than Muggle borns. Right? But at the, at the end of the day, when we think about the Muggle Born Registration Commission, so much of that is a fear of how these individuals got their magic. It leads them to believe that they are superior to magical creatures because we can't understand the magic that you have. And so we subjugate it because it scares us. And we subjugate you. We exile you, we massacre you. But then we teach students what you did. So maybe the actual curse on the position is not the one that Voldemort placed on it. Maybe the curse is that an institution can't survive the truth. And so they have to keep this class going, because if they don't and students learn what actually is true and what you don't need to be afraid of, then maybe they'll see who the real monsters are.

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[Professor Julian Womble]

Oh, no.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married. Me to a human, him to a bird.

[Liberty Mutual Partner]

Yeah, the bird looks out of your league.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Anyways, get a [e-mail] or with your local agent.

[Liberty Mutual Partner]

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If you work in university maintenance, Granger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Professor Julian Womble]

So here's how you can save up to 70% on your favorite brands. From rebel.com has everything for your home, family and life. From strollers to skincare at unbeatable prices. Every day, REBBL drops thousands of new products for up to 70% off. It's a constant stream of endless deals from brands like Uppababy, Nuna, Baby Bjorn, Nespresso, Breville, Wilson, Dyson, Caraway and more. Every listing is one of a kind and the best things go first. So you have to move fast. Save big on your favorite brands. Shop now for up to 70% at from rebel.com this has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you liked today's episode. First of all, thank you. Please feel free to like, rate, subscribe and do all the things that one does where pods are cast, y'. All. I want to thank you so much for your involvement in the post episode chat, the Discord conversation, the conversation on Saturday Spotify. This was a fantastic episode if I do say so myself. And I do say so myself. Please, if you have not done it yet, please do not forget to do the Seamus survey. If you are on the listserv, you will be getting it on Saturday, I promise. It's already scheduled. Friends, I cannot wait to hear your thoughts on Sheamus and to dive into a character that is another one of these kind of secondary tertiary characters that we've been having that have really been putting us through it. Get your thoughts ready for Harry Potter though, because we're coming. We're coming for him. And I know that some of you defenders are going to be ready and that other people are going to be ready. We all need to be ready. Until then, be critical and stay magical, my friends. Bye.

[Grainger Announcer]

If you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock. So your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

I'm here on the job site with Dale, who's a framing contractor.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Hey, good morning.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Dale traded up to Geico Commercial Auto Insurance for all his business vehicles. We're here where he needs us most.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Yep, they sure are.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We make it easy for him to save on all his insurance needs, all in one place with coverage that fits his business and bottom line.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Oh, I shouldn't have looked down. It's all right.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

We're so far up here.

[Professor Julian Womble]

Look at me. Take a deep breath. I'm good. So good.

[Liberty Mutual Spokesperson]

Get a commercial auto insurance quote [e-mail] and see how much you could save.

[Professor Julian Womble]

It feels good.

[Safeway/Albertsons Announcer]

To Geico.