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Critical Magic Theory: An Analytical Harry Potter Podcast
The Quiet Complexity and Courage of Neville Longbottom
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Professor Julian Womble
Welcome to Critical Magic Theory, where we deconstruct the wizarding world of Harry Potter. Because loving something doesn't mean we can't be critical of it. I'm Professor Julian Womble and today we are talking about King Neville Longbottom, y'all. Never before in the history of Critical Magic Theory. By the way, today's our 20th episode and I can't believe it. But back to the point at hand. Never before in the history of Critical Magic Theory has there been such a consensus about a character, let alone one that is so incredibly positive. And y'all, I just love Neville so much. And the hardest part of this episode for me is going to be not getting emotional. Okay. I'm even in my head as I've been, like, thinking through what I was going to say and going through some of the comments and things from the surveys. I'm like, oh my God. I don't care what happens. I will edit the heck out of anything that even sounds remotely like emotion. Nothing. No emotion. Just facts. Cold hard facts. Okay? That's what you're getting from me today. Neville's just such a beautiful character whose arc is really one of the few that we get to see kind of start from, from very little. I mean, he really does give us a zero to hero moment. And it is so beautiful to kind of experience and to see him come into his own. And then also as we learn more and more about who he is, his upbringing, his life, his journey as he's on this kind of arc as a student in Hogwarts, as a Gryffindor, as a person, just in general, it was really meaningful to watch it and I recognize that it means just as much to you all. And I cannot wait to dive into this episode because I think that you all bring a lot of things to bear. And I'm excited because I think that there were some things that weren't necessarily discussed explicitly that I'm excited to kind of bring up. Have you ever wondered if Neville should have been sorted into another house? Or the effect his family had on his confidence and magical abilities? Or whether Neville could have done what Harry did to defeat Voldemort? Y'all, we are getting into all of it today. But first, but first. But first, you know what we have to do. Hmm. You know, in fact, you knew so well that you were already lubricating your shoulders. You were stretching because you know that you can't sue me for any sort of pulled muscle if you're driving. You are focused on that road. Okay? You're looking straight ahead. You are moving your shoulders up and down in preparation, but your hands are not moving. Because I'm not getting in trouble. All right? Because you got to focus on the road. You got to stay safe if you're on a train. Anyways, you get what I'm saying? It is time to bop along to the theme song. Okay? Three, two, one, let's bop. We need to talk about Harry Potter. I hope you danced because, y'all, life is hectic and for those of us who are living in the United States, it is a mess right now. And so sometimes releasing those endorphins by bopping along to the theme song is as good as it's gonna get for some of us. Okay? And so you gotta do it. You got to do it. I want to take a moment to first off, welcome any of us who are new to the podcast who are catching up after a while. Welcome or welcome back. We are happy to have you here. I also want to thank those of you who participated in the post episode conversation Patreon about Barty Crouch Jr. There was a lot to discuss, there was a lot to say, and you all said it. Okay? And I also want to highlight a really fantastic conversation that I had with the Chronic Overthinkers this past Saturday where we discussed Ravenclaw House and what it means to be a Ravenclaw. I also kind of forced them into being a part of this episode because I was too lazy to come up with a reflection for Neville and so I kind of forced them to do it. And so you will hear from some of our Chronic Overthinkers at the end of this episode. Speaking of Chronic Overthinkers, I want to thank Stacy and Krista for joining our ranks and joining as Chronic Overthinkers. Our deep divers are going to be listed in the episode summary, so please feel free to check them out. Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to check out the Patreon and especially for those individuals who have taken the time and the energy and the money to subscribe through paid subscription, I really, really appreciate it. And if that is something that interests you, whether joining for free to join in our post episode conversations or as it's happening right now in a conversation about what the next episode needs to be about, or I should say, who the next episode needs to be about, I think right now Cornelius Fudge and Rufus Scrimgeour are winning out. But if you want to help me figure out what the next episode should be about, check out the patreon patreon.com criticalmagictheory it's also on my social media platforms. It's on criticalmagictheory.com check it out. It's great. We have a good time and sometimes you help me make really important decisions. And so I'm giving us until Friday to figure out who this episode is going to be about. And whoever wins, wins. And then I will make a survey and you will have it by this weekend. So the power is in your hands. In the words of Captain Planet, the power is yours. Okay, so if that is something that you're interested in and you want to join in the conversation after this episode and help us figure out the next one, check out the Patreon. If you don't follow me on social media, please do. I am on TikTok rofw p r o F W and I am on instagram @prof.jw It's a good time. I post a lot of my lectures there. They serve as kind of stimulators for conversation. Like I said last time I was getting dragged not too long ago. The Internet people stay dragging me and fortunately it's a really good perk of a person who's very hard on themselves that the words of Internet people don't get to me too much. So it's a good time. Also, please feel free to like, rate, subscribe, follow and do all the things. I really enjoy reading your comments. It just reminds me how special this community is speaking of and then I swear we'll get to the episode. But I just, I guess since the last episode I was able to be a keynote speaker or an invited speaker at the Harry Potter Academic Conference. And y'all, it was so much fun to be there and sharing a little bit of what we do here on the podcast, but also just hearing some of the incredible things that people are doing in their engagement with the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It was just such an amazing time to be amongst kindred spirits and I had a blast. And next year it is going to be fully online and you can submit your ideas. And so as we get closer, I'll talk more about it. But anyways, it exists in the world. I didn't even know this was a thing, but it does exist and it is so much fun. And yeah, so, well, we'll talk about it later. We'll talk about it later next year. But anyways, let's, let's, let's get into the episode. Okay, let's get into it. When I had to think about a favorite moment of mine for Neville I was like, oh wow, I've never really thought about this. And so then I had to think about one that wasn't going to send me into an emotional tailspin. And there's no guarantee that this one won't, but I think it's the safest bet. But it's also a moment that I really, really, really love. And whenever I listen to this book I'm always really struck by this moment. And it's the moment where Neville is upset because he can't get into transfiguration because he didn't get the correct owl. And McGonagall says to him, you know, you should try charms. And he's like, my grandma says that that's a soft option. And McGonagall says to him, you know, your grandmother is just mad cause she wasn't good at charms. And it's about time she started appreciating the grandson she had. Hold on, I'm gonna go get the quote. I'm gonna get the quote. She says it's high time your grandmother learned to be proud of the grandson she's got rather than the one she thinks she ought to have. Particularly after what happened at the. And then she says, and I shall drop Augusta a line reminding her that just because she failed her charms owl, the subject is not necessarily worthless. Smiling slightly at the look of delighted incredulity on Neville's face, Professor McGonagall tapped a blank schedule with a tip of her wand and handed it, now carrying details of his new classes to Neville. Oh, I love this moment. I really, really, really do. Because I think it's one where Neville really gets to reap the benefits of what he's done at the ministry. He gets to be told by someone that he respects and I would go on a limb and say loves, that he is worthy, he is worthy of his grandmother's pride. He is worthy of being appreciated for what he did at the ministry. He simply is worthy. And I think for so much of Neville's journey there is this fear and this concern and this reality that he's not good enough and that you know, he spends so much time trying to live up to his parents legacy and live up to what his grandmother wants for him and all of these things. And he's not always getting the validation that he deserves or probably needs to be able to really recognize all that he brings to bear. And what I also realize about this moment, and I think this is true for Neville and other characters as well, is you know, how much of his existence is dictated by his grandmother and how much of the way that she dictates it is based on her own faults and failures. Right. Like the idea that Charms is a soft option is because of her own failings in the subject. And so now she's socialized Neville to see it that way. And so he then sees himself as a failure because he can get into Charms, but not into transfiguration. And it's just such a fascinating aspect of how we come to understand who Neville is, particularly when it comes to his relationship with his grandmother, because she puts so much pressure on him. And, you know, I'm sure it comes from a place of love and a place of fear. Right. We're talking about someone who has experienced great loss of her son, of her daughter in law. And we'll talk a little bit later in the episode about kind of what it means to lose someone who is still present and the realities of that and what that means for a person and particularly what it does to the child of those people. And I think that recognizing that particular reality for Augusta, for Neville, is really important in understanding the dynamic of their relationship. But I also think that it speaks volumes about the way that we understand, you know, how they operate. And so much of Neville's operation as a person is through the lens of trying to be good enough. And so I love this moment because it's one way where he gets the validation of he is good enough and not for anything that he did, but just by recognizing that his grandmother is the problem and it's not him. And I think that what feels real for me for Neville is that he internalizes a lot of the things that his grandmother puts out into the world. And this is a moment where some of that is dispelled. And he actually does get to not only recognize his own worth, but recognize that, yeah, his grandma failed Charms and that's why she's mad. And that has nothing to do with him. And I think one of the things about, like growing up, and particularly as an adult for me now that I realize is that, like, sometimes you look back on certain instances in your life and you're like, oh, that had absolutely nothing to do with me. And I internalized it as a thing to do with me. And that's a particularly difficult thing to reconcile when the person who is doing whatever is someone who is trusted to take care of you and who you trust and love and have nothing but admiration for. And so you find yourself working so hard to try to get something out of them that they may not be able to give you because of their own trauma and drama and madness and sadness. And so for this moment, where McGonagall is able to kind of shatter some of that a little bit and kind of give him a peek into his grandmother's thinking and how she's approaching some of these things, I just imagine that it is so helpful for him, particularly at this juncture where he is still kind of coming into his own after everything that happened at the Department of Mysteries. And y'all, I just love it so freaking much. When asked what word best describes Neville, the top three were brave, loyal, and kind. I love this because I think one of the questions that we'll get into as we move throughout the episode is this question of Neville's belonging in Gryffindor. Now, I thought this question was one that was gonna kind of take us on a journey, and for some of us it did, but for most of us it didn't. And that's okay. We'll get into that when we get into the Arithmancy lesson. But I think that what we do uncover and what I love about the discussion of Neville and Gryffindor House is what does it mean to be brave? As I said before in the last episode and at the beginning of this one, I posted something on Instagra that might have been a touch incendiary. And part of the drama of it all and the chaos, which, you know, I love, was that I said that the way we come to understand what it means to be brave in these books is so specific and toxic. Now, at the time, I didn't realize that the word toxic is, like, triggering to many millennials. I found out very quickly, and I'm still finding out, but I think that Neville offers us a very beautiful perspective on what bravery can be and looks like relative to other forms of it or other presentations of bravery. And so I do think that there are lots of reasons for us to believe that Neville is brave because he does a lot of things that seemingly stand in the face of his own fears and concerns and senses of inadequacy, and he still does it. We also see that Neville is someone who is outlandishly loyal and who, you know, particularly in the latter books, is just kind of on his ride or die. Right? And I think we've talked a lot about loyalty, mostly when it comes to people like Bellatrix or Barty Crouch Jr. Being loyal to Voldemort. But I think what we can see in Neville is, like, the good side of loyalty and what loyalty can look like when it's not kind of focused on a sociopath. And I think that there's something really amazing about Neville's loyalty because in some ways, you know, he doesn't have to give it to Harry. He doesn't have to give it to any of these people, particularly because, you know, he's the same age as them. He, you know, doesn't necessarily have the same vested interest in some of the things that they're fighting for, because he's a pureblood who comes from a good pureblood family. Like, he doesn't have to fight as hard. Like his family isn't as maligned and reviled as the Weasleys. Right? So he doesn't have to do some of the things that he's doing. And yet he does. And I think we've talked a lot about, you know, as we've gone on this journey and thinking about Pure Bloods and the sacrifices that we see some of them make and the ones that we see some of them not make, right? And I think that there's something to be said about Neville's loyalty to so much of what these kind of crazy Gryffindors get up to. And he doesn't have to, and he does. And what's more, I think important about Neville's loyalty, at least to me, is that he does it in the face of being afraid. And we'll talk a little bit more about that fear later on. But I think that facing his fear and still doing the hard thing is exceptionally brave. And doing it with friends in mind is even more amazing. And still finding room to be kind. I think this description of Neville as kind feels very important to me because we know all that Neville has gone through, and we know what Neville has endured at home. We know that there was a lot of reasons why Neville wasn't presumed to be magical. We know that his grandmother is exceedingly overbearing and kind of rude to him in a lot of ways. And even though it comes from a good place, we could also imagine a context where the internalization of those things would cause Neville to not necessarily be kind, to kind of mirror those behaviors. We talk a lot about those types of things when we've talked about other characters who we meet as children in the series, and that so much of the way that they're socialized comes out in the things that they do and the way that they treat others. And so the fact that Neville can come from a place of pretty significant criticism and still have the capacity of kindness, I think Also speaks volumes about who he is as a person and the way that he is able to navigate so many of the things that seemingly work against him, but he's able to turn them into things that work in his favor. And I just. There's something so laudable and beautiful about that because it is kind of interesting that Neville is one of the few characters who we see be affected in some way by the people around him in ways that are not like anger, right? Like we talked a little bit about, you know, Harry and Ron are very good at being angry, but we very rarely see Neville angry. We see him resolute, we see him sad, we see him terrified, we see him navigating those fears, but we rarely see him angry. And I think that there is something very specific about that because for most of the men and boys we meet in this series, anger is the go to emotion. And so the fact that we get to see see Neville go through an array of emotions to kind of try to figure things out as he's on this journey, I think is one of the things that makes it so easy for us to relate to him, why what he does throughout his journey resonates with us. And so, as we get into the arithmancy lesson, I think keeping in mind these words of brave and loyal and kind will kind of ground us as we continue on this journey and thinking through who Neville Longbottom is and kind of why he is the way that he is. For this episode's arithmancy lesson, we had 380 responses. And for the first question, is Neville Longbottom a good person? 99.7% of us said yes and 0.3 said, don't know. So basically, we couldn't agree at all. One person said, I doubt one person has anything bad to say about Neville. Good person. Check. Easy answer. Hilariously, one person put, don't know. And I wonder if that one person was just trying to, like, break the 100%, you know, because we love chaos here. And maybe that was what they were doing. Because I'm like, what don't you know? If you're that one person, please join us in the Patreon chat and just let us know. Was it chaos or was it curiosity? Mmm, intriguing. Someone else wrote, is Neville a good person? He may be the best person we get in the series. If I didn't know better, I would come close to calling him two dimensional. But the truth is his dimension comes from his failings as a student, wizard, socialite. But there is not a single moral Failing in that boy from start to finish, when it comes to rules, he is reasonable. He wasn't willing to break them in first year because the adults should have been handling. Handling it. But he was willing to break them later on when it was clear that the adults wouldn't or couldn't handle things. He has a strong moral compass and follows it no matter what the situation is. I can't think of a single time we see him falter, even with a tragic background, even in the face of abuse, even when the people he loves have something different to say. Neville is the main reason I have less sympathy for people like Draco or Buddy Crouch Jr. Because he had every reason to become villainous because of circumstance and he simply refused to. I think that that's the thing about Neville is that unlike a lot of these other characters, particularly, again, our boys and our men, a lot of our men and boys have these, like, tragic backstories that JKR gives them to kind of explain away their bad behavior. And. And so we take it and we allow for that to kind of be the thing that guides us in our understanding of who these characters are. And it's not until much later that we find out about Neville and his parents and his background and the reality that he could have been in Harry's position. And we realize that Neville has been suffering in silence and he has been, oh, God, I said I wasn't gonna get emotional. Everything's fine. Don't worry about me. It's all good. He's been suffering in silence. And he has been working so hard not necessarily to even hide it, but just to make it through. He's just been trying to be the grandson he thinks his grandmother wants, the son he hopes his parents would have wanted, the student he thinks his teachers want, the Gryffindor he thinks his classmates want. And so we never really get to see until much later on Neville as his own person, but we never doubt whether or not he's a good one. And I think that this was an easy question to answer because Neville has such an amazing grounded, foundational understanding of right and wrong and even the spaces and places in between. And I think that that also sets him apart. The fact that from the very beginning, he is not someone who has to kind of figure out the shades of gray but also understands that they exist and is outrageously nuanced in his assessment of situations in ways that I think, you know, Harry has to grow into. And Hermione really struggles to get there. And Ron lives there, but not for the same reasons as Neville does. And I find that to be so fascinating because I think what is true about Neville is the fact that he is someone who kind of is left to his own devices in a lot of ways. Once he gets to Hogwarts, we don't see him have a lot of friends at the onset and he is bullied a lot. And yet he feels like he doesn't really have a lot of shame. Like when he gets the, remember all in the first book he's like, hey y'all. Yeah, I got it. And I don't even remember why. And it's, and it's not clear whether or not he just doesn't realize that he, you know, should be ashamed or that shame is something that other people would feel. But regardless of that, it's still the reality that he just is who he is. And who he is is just so fundamentally kind of well rounded and good. And I think he serves as such a good example for a lot of the students around him, even if they don't recognize it. And I also just find it low key annoying that JKR made him this kind of bumbling idiot who forgets lots of things and has these moments. But I think that we so often characterize Neville, particularly in the first like four books, as a kind of mask until he does something that is reminiscent of the way that we understand bravery and Gryffindor ness and masculinity and all these things that look like what Harry does. And then at that moment we're in some ways given permission to recognize and appreciate him. And again, even the quote that I gave at the very beginning for my favorite moment comes in Half blood Prince, the sixth book. Before that we see McGonagall really, really, really going hard on Neville about his magical prowess, about his inability to remember the passwords. I mean, and so the idea that somehow, despite the fact that no one is really willing to meet him where he is, he maintains the level of goodness is something that is so beautiful and not discussed enough. So I'm really grateful that you all were so effusive in your understanding of Neville as a good person. And to the one person who said they didn't know, now you know. Is Neville Longbottom a good son? Grandson? About 95% of us said yes. About 4.7% of us said don't know. And I think that leaves about 0.3% of us that said no. Someone wrote Neville was a good grandson. He didn't always have a good grandmother. Someone else wrote good grandson. I said yes, Even though we get the impression that his grandmother expected more of him when he was in his younger school years. She wanted someone you would typically define as brave run into danger Gryffindor rather than recognizing his quiet and self assured bravery. Someone else wrote, neville lives in a home that seems so similar to the blacks than people realize, even if they are one of the good families. His grandma comes from old money and we can't forget he was thrown out of the balcony because he wasn't showing signs of magic. His parents seem like they were loved, brilliant people. And he has to live up to the expectations set by his family being compared to people he barely knows. He is genuinely good and tries so hard to live up to the expectations placed on him as a legacy to his parents and as a pure blood that needs to be perfect while also being a lonely kid. I think that what really strikes me about Neville and his experience and the way that we understand him as a son and a grandson is the fact that again, like so much of his experiences are not for him. I think that's why he loves herbology so much, because it's like his thing. And I know that many of us can resonate at least in part with the idea of having expectations placed on you and working very hard to try and kind of meet those expectations. And the difficulty of realizing that some of the expectations you don't even want to meet, but you feel compelled to. And I think that this is also something that we really don't discuss explicitly when it comes to pure blood children is that like when you have a name that is known to be part of this kind of exclusive club that comes along with a lot of social and for most people, financial benefits, it's not even just the expectations of your family, but it's the expectations of everyone else. And what we can see, right, is that like, as alluded to in one of the comments, you know, the concern and the fear that Neville would have ultimately been a squib was something that led to some very traumatic things happening to him. And yet he still kind of doesn't necessarily see it for being as problematic as we recognize it to be as readers. And like, I think that one of the words that I would have used to describe Neville is resilient, because I think that he is someone who has undergone all of these things and kind of takes it in stride in a way that I just don't think any child should have to. And so the fact that he is still in school trying so hard to please his grandmother and make his family proud and be the child and grandchild that he thinks these people want him to be is why I think he's a good son and a good grandson. Because at a certain point, I would be like, screw you. Like, I'm not fighting anybody. I'm not doing anything. Not because I don't believe in it, but because I have spent the vast majority of my life trying to please you. And even after the Department of Mysteries where I am in there literally about to die, risking life and limb, and you're still on me about not being able to be in transfiguration. No. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. At this point, it's in the words of Beyonce, me, myself and I is all I got in the end. And he has friends now, so, like, sorry, Gran, it's a no for me because that's ridiculous. And yet he still tries and he still works, and he still is disappointed. And that's what also makes that moment with McGonagall so meaningful to me. Because she's basically like, you've gotta stop trying to be who she wants you to be and just be who you are. And she needs to catch up. Like, this is a her thing. And so any sense that Augusta may have that he's not living up to her expectations is because her expectations aren't based on who he is as a person. And I think that, like, it's gotta be so difficult to be a child who constantly feels like you're never meeting Bar, and then to be reminded and become friendly with someone like Harry, who is, as we can see with his relationship with the Weasleys, often lauded as this kind of, you know, ideal child. And Neville has to contend with that. And he does it. He does it without much kind of rancor or anger. Like, you know, we know Ron gets jealous and Neville doesn't. And we know that Neville's grandma compares Neville to Harry. Like, there are moments where he says, like, you know, my grandma talks about that Harry Potter. And I think that that is really difficult. And he doesn't seem to be as affected by it as I think he probably should have been. But I think that also is the magic of Neville. And I think that, you know, he is a good son and a good grandson. And it is not incumbent upon him to prove that to the people in his life. It is incumbent upon them to figure out that they need to change their ways and their understandings in order to meet him at the amazing place that he is. And again, that's why I Love this moment with McGonagall that I discussed at the beginning because it's there that she kind of gives him permission to stop working so hard to please people who need to be changed instead of trying to change Neville. Is Neville Longbottom a good Gryffindor? 97.1% of us said yes, 2.4% of us said no, and 0.5% of us said don't know. Someone wrote Neville is the true embodiment of a Gryffindor. In his early years he came off as timid and insecure, someone who didn't believe in his own abilities and didn't believe he belonged in Gryffindor house. He was a quote unquote, late bloomer when he first showed magical ability and struggled to perform while in class. In comparison to his peers in the Chamber of Secrets, he expressed fear of being targeted by the Basilisk because he considered himself, quote, unquote, pretty much a squib. But as we know, it is not our abilities who show us who we are, but our choices. Neville admired bravery in others and chose to be brave when it mattered the most. Someone else wrote he is brave enough to follow his passions, even if they are quote unquote lame and even if it wasn't appreciated. As first tried his best to be what his family wanted of him at the same time as realizing that some of their views are not as good. I think that when we think about what it means to be brave and what we think about what it means to be a Gryffindor, and you'll hear this in the conversation that I have with the chronic overthinkers in the reflection for this episode. I think that one of the things that we recognize about bravery and that feels very cool to us is kind of recklessness. And I'm not saying that to be reckless means to be brave, but I think that the way that we see it displayed oftentimes in these books, particularly when it comes to Harry, is recklessness. And I think that one of the things that Neville is not is reckless. I think that he gets there, but I think he's a very measured person. And I think that, you know, one of the things that I've realized growing up and realizing that, you know, I have anxiety is that there have been lots of moments where I haven't been reckless because I'm outlandishly risk averse because I have the anxiety that I have and it's helped me not get into tough scrapes sometimes. It also has helped me make sure that I plan things out in a way that is still effective. And I think that for Neville, like he is that person, he still can do brave things. He's just not gonna run into it without planning. He's gonna write down the passwords because he knows he's gonna forget. I think the thing that Neville has that we don't see a lot of people in Gryffind is a level of self awareness. Like Neville knows himself. He knew he was going to forget those passwords so he asked the fat lady to, we shouldn't call her that. He asked the guardian of Gryffindor Tower to what, what the passwords were going to be. And yes, he lost them and that wasn't great. But I think that to have the foresight and the recognition that because of security measures that the password was going to change so much and he wasn't going to remember is brave because it means that you have to acknowledge your faults and your failures and you have to lean into them and try to mitigate them as much as you can. He was 13 years old when he did that. Like he didn't care that he got a remembrall at 11. He's just like, yeah, except it's not helpful if I don't remember what I don't remember. And so the level of self awareness that Neville has requires bravery. Because not only does he have the self awareness, but he operates in it as a child around people who don't feel the need to be as self aware and don't have to navigate their fears every time they go into a potions classroom. And he still tries to do well in Snape's class. And it is just, it's so brave to have to face your fears all the time. And I think when we meet Neville, he's afraid of a lot of things and he shows up every day and he does incredibly brave things. Whether it be fighting Draco, Crabbe and Goyle, whether it be standing up to Ron and Hermione, whether it be admitting that you're afraid that the Basilisk is going to come for you because you don't think you have the right kind of magical acumen because you've been socialized to believe that that's the case. Giving voice to those things out loud, to your friends, to people who you respect and want to kind of keep in your life, is bravery. And you know, one of the things that we talked about a lot when we talked about Neville just in passing was the fact that, you know, he sits there and debates with the sorting Hat many of us brought this up in our comments both in this question and for the next one. And I think that it's true. This seemingly omniscient, magical thingamabob that's on your head that seemingly, like, knows all the things and you're like, actually, you don't know this. I think that's crazy to me. I would never have that at 11. And the fact that he did. And again, there's a difference between knowing something and giving voice to it. And I think even our Queen Hermione, there are things that she keeps to herself because she's afraid that if she says it out loud, the boys will either make fun of her or not be her friend anymore. And Neville seemingly doesn't have that particular concern. And there's something very beautiful and brave about that. And so, yeah, like, he's not the Gryffindor that we come to understand as being the kind of archetype, but he's the one that should be the archetype. The next question was meant to be our chaotic question. It was a Patreon exclusive question. And it asked was Neville always a good Gryffindor or did he become one? About 84% of us said he was always a good Gryffindor. 15% said he became a good Gryffindor and 1% said don't. No, Kathy wrote, he was always a good Gryffindor and I am ready to die on this hill. Kathy, you don't have to. You don't have to. You're not alone. You're not alone. 84%. So no dying on hills this time around. Kathy, Kathy continues. He proved his bravery in the first year when he decided to wait in the common room and confront Harry, Ron and Hermione when they were sneaking out again. Which for someone who didn't have a lot of friends was probably one of the hardest things he had ever done. But he felt duty and loyalty to Gryffindor house and felt it was the right thing to do. He fully came into his own later on, but the seeds of it were always there. Matt wrote, I would absolutely say Neville was always a Gryffindor. He shows courage and bravery before it's even officially recognized. Harry gives him that confidence boost after he gets hit with a leg locker curse by Malfoy. Enough so that he stands up to Malfoy. He goes into a fight with Ron against Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle. That takes a lot of bravery. When Malfoy was literally bullying everyone he deemed beneath him, it all culminated in him standing, standing up to Harry, Ron and Hermione for official recognition from Dumbledore. But Neville was always a good Gryffindor, even before that. I have a confession and I feel like this is a safe space mostly because none of you can get to me. But when I first posed this question, I was in the he became a good Gryffindor camp. And then I was in church and for the children's moment at church, the pastor was talking about changing leaves and she said, you know, did you know that for the. I believe it's like the yellow and orange leaves, like the color is always there, but it just takes the seasons to change for the colors, for the yellows and oranges to come out. But like, it's not as if the process is not creating these colors. It's ever present. We just can't see it until a certain moment in time makes it easier for us to recognize the yellows and the oranges. And as I was thinking about this question of Neville and whether he had always been a good Gryffindor or whether he became one, I kept coming back to that metaphor of these leaves and what it takes for us to recognize the colors and the contextual nature of it. But the fact that those colors are always present, they're always there, it just takes certain circumstances for them to come forth. And I think that that's true for Neville. I think that he always had bravery both in terms of the way that it's understood and kind of presented to us and rewarded in the books, but also in these quiet, self assured ways that you all have brought up. Right? It's in the fact that he was willing to talk down the sorting hat and basically be like, you got it wrong. It's in the fact that he was willing to bring a toad to school when no one was doing that right? Everyone was bringing cats and owls and he said, trevor, let's go. It's in the fact that he was willing to be a herbology nerd and be so happy and proud of it and unrepentant about the fact that he was good at it and he was happy. It's in the fact that he was like, I'm going to this dance and I'm going to be dancing the night away that he just is. So his bravery is always there and it manifests in ways that we recognize and appreciate because it looks the way that we understand it from the Golden Trio later on. But the seeds of it are there and the colors underneath the leaves are always there for Neville. And I think that there's something so amazing about recognizing that because it expands our understanding of what it means to be Gryffindor and it highlights the different kinds of bravery that we understand. And I think what's fascinating is that we as readers are really led to believe that he becomes a good Gryffindor. By the end of the series. We're like, yeah, you finally came into your own, right? Like, he's supposed to have that arc, him killing Nagini, him taking out a Horcrux was supposed to be the zenith moment of his bravery. And I think that there are other moments where we can look and say, like, hey, actually there are other things that this person has done that don't have to be violent, that don't have to be, you know, the typical understood way of bravery that still count and may or may not be more important. And so I think I, in my reflection of this particular question, I really did have to grapple with my own understanding of Gryffindor ness of bravery and recognizing like, oh, yeah, no, Neville was always that person and just like his grandma, right? Like, I had to change my own understanding and definition in order to appreciate what he was bringing to us. And so I'm grateful to Neville for that because I think it's really important. I also am annoyed, though I will say that I'm annoyed because I think that part of the reason why we look at Neville's bravery as not being brave is because it doesn't get the same kind of recognition, both from JKR in the way that it's written, until he starts doing things like Harry. But also, even in this moment that many of us brought up, that he stands up to Ron, Harry and Hermione, he still only gets 10 points. And I know that those 10 points send them over the mark and, you know, do this treacherous thing where they overthrow Slytherin, I get that. But I do think that when you are taking four actions, right, and you give 50 points to Hermione, 50 points to Ron, and then 60 points to Harry for, you know, bravery that the school hasn't seen, and then 10 points to Neville for doing something that you say is even harder than what these other people have done, y'all, I know that what they did was dangerous, but you can see how that emphasizes the idea and invalidates what Neville did. Because it's basically like, yeah, what you did was good and it's only worthy of 10 points. And that to me is very insufficient. And I know that we shouldn't be looking for validation, but he's 11 and he's not been validated in pretty much this whole thing. And I know, I know that he was so surprised that he got points to begin with because he never gets points, which is also a load of bs. But I still think that when we think about what it means to be brave and our understanding of what it means to be Gryffindor, the idea that certain things are getting many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many more points and more validation, I think it drives home the point about, you know, what bravery is and what it means to be a true Gryffindor. And I think it further kind of isolates those individuals who can't necessarily do those things yet. And that is why we don't see the colors underneath their leaves that are always there. And maybe we should think about that. Is Neville Longbottom a good pure blood? 45% of us said yes, 29.5% of us said no, and 25.5% of us said don't know. Someone wrote, I don't think Neville is a good pureblood. He actively stands up and fights those who would submit pureblood supremacy as law. He uses his status to his advantage until he's a bigger problem than he's worth dealing with. And then, and only then, do the Caros consider killing him. Someone wrote, neville is without a doubt in my mind a good person who as a pure blood does the most to be a true ally to the cause of equality and uses his privilege in massively impactful ways. His grandmother and parents, history taught him how to, in the words of John Lewis, rest in power. Never ever be afraid to make some noise and get in good trouble. Necessary trouble. Someone wrote going to cause chaos. Sorry, not sorry. We love to see it. But the only question I wasn't 100% sure on was whether Neville was a good pure blood. I ultimately chose no because Neville's actions don't indicate that he was a pure blood supremacist. But I also can't confidently say he didn't possess pure blood supremacy views as some of the other characters we've looked at. Neville not does not overtly. Oh doesn't overtly support Voldemort or bullying non pure blood wizards. However, we don't actually spend enough time with Neville to know if he had pure blood supremacist views at one point in his life and then had to reflect and work towards ultimately rejecting those views. Now this is a bit more chaos that I like because I think that it's an interesting thing to think about this last comment. Right. You know, do we understand Neville as actively kind of working against pure blood supremacist views and pure blood supremacist. And I think the former two comments speak to this, namely because what we see in the final book is that while before this moment we don't necessarily see anything from Neville that would suggest that he even thinks about pure blood supremacist views. And I think some of us might say, well, his parents were Aurors and so obviously. But again, I would invite us to remember that, you know, being an Auror and taking down Dark wizards isn't necessarily fighting against the structure that is Pure Blood supremacy. Right? Like that's just anti Voldemort or anti Dark wizard, not necessarily anti, like pure blood supremacy. And so it's fair for us to hold Neville to the same standard and ask the question, you know. But I do think that when confronted with the notion of pure Blood supremacy, which is made manifest, at least in this case as the Karrows, right, And the way that they believe and operate within Hogwarts as teachers of having them punish Muggle Borns and Neville and Ginny, it's important that we bring up Ginny as well, right? Both leveraging their Pure Blood status as ways to stand in the face of that, knowing that they wouldn't be hurt because they are Pure blood. And that pure blood supremacy protects them, but it also gives them the ability to subvert the system. Because of that protection, I think answers the question about whether he is someone who benefits from the system. And the answer to that question is yes. But benefiting from the system is one thing, recognizing it is another. Taking that recognition and turning it into subversive action is something completely different. And I think that that's what we see them do, right? There's a recognition from Ginny and Neville in this moment that they are people who are part of the privileged class and that offers them the ability to really kind of disrupt things. And so in that way it's like, yes, he is a beneficiary of the system, but he uses it to his advantage for bringing down the system. And so I think that that's really important. And so I appreciate this comment that kind of invites us to remember that sometimes our good characters are beneficiaries of a system that is inherently bad. And that also in this case. Right. What we can see is that when these individuals recognize the privileges that are bestowed upon them and then actively take on dangerous roles, some might say even brave roles, to subvert that system. And that's Neville, and that's what Neville does. And I think that there is something, I've often said that, you know, when we think about bravery when we think about heroism you know, doing things that you don't need to do because you are benefited in society is really important. And I think that Neville takes that a step further, so does Ginny because they recognize that they don't need to do it and they do it anyway. And that they are actively, like, knowing that they can get away with it because they are pure blood. And I think, you know, there's something about that recognition when you're younger that looks very different than when you're older. Right. Like, we don't see Arthur doing this particular thing at the Ministry but the Ministry also isn't being explicit about wanting people to kind of punish Muggle Borns in the way that the Carrows are. Right. Like, the Ministry is doing it in a way that seems above board. And Mr. Weasley has other things to worry about. Right. But what we can see is that Neville's like, whatever, you won't hurt me. I mean, even at the end, when he steps up to Voldemort after Harry has died the first time and spoiler alert, and he goes up and says, like, yeah, he's not worried. Because he's like, I'm pureblood and I know that this is what you care about. And so maybe Neville wasn't always a person who recognized the privileges that he had. But when he figures it out, he does write by that recognition and he does write by the people who are marginalized and can't do it for themselves. And, I mean, it doesn't get much better than that. Especially not in these books. Hello. Is Neville Longbottom a hero? 96.6% of us said yes, 1.8% of us said no, and 1.6% of us said don't know. Someone wrote, there are many heroes in the wizarding world, but Neville, he stands out among them all. If I could give an analogy, Harry, Ron and Hermione and others are who we are. But Neville, that's who we strive to be. King Neville, Long may he reign. Hear, hear. Hurrah. I added, in those last things they ended on. Long may he reign. You get what I'm saying? Someone else wrote, I do believe the pain of losing his parents within their own minds knowing that they were willing to sacrifice themselves as they did, to the cause and hearing his grandmother speak so highly of them as heroes for the cause galvanized his own beliefs in equality for wizardkind and his drive to fight with the same commitment that they had. In conclusion, he is a precious cinnamon roll and a national treasure. We should all bow to King Neville, another person wrote. I would venture to suggest he might be even braver and more heroic than Harry. Standing up to the trio in book one was also brave. Being steady about seeing his damaged parents in St. Mungo's was brave. It's shameful that they didn't include that scene in the film. It's incredibly moving. The sweet rapper crying emoji, even being determined to join Harry and the trio, plus others too, of course, in the Ministry of Magic in book five is brave. Then his actions in Deathly Hallows, standing up to the Carrows, creating a safe space for students in the Room of Requirement, gave him a higher score still. Neville, we salute you. I mean, this is an easy question. To me, it's a no brainer. Of course, Neville is a hero. Neville is someone who, again, by the definition that we've been using for a lot of our pure blood people, particularly our good ones, right. You know, stands in the face of a system that benefits him in every way and he still goes above and beyond to make sure that people who are not in his position feel safe and seen and heard. And that cannot be overstated. And I think that, you know, the work that he does with the fear that he possesses and I think, again, like, I think it's important for us to acknowledge and highlight the fact that a lot of what Neville does, particularly in the beginnings of the series, is also coupled with fear. And he still does it. He still shows up to Snape's class brave. He had to. Yeah, but like, he still tries, even though he knows that Snape is going to do some crazy stuff to him. That's brave, y'all. And I just think that, you know, the heroism that we see at the end of the book, you know, when it comes to Nagini, when it comes to how we understand what he's been doing at Hogwarts without in Harry's absence, it just speaks volumes about who he is and what he fundamentally believes. And I think that Neville always believed those things. I think that it is a very difficult thing when your parents are as heroic as his were to figure out where you fit in that narrative and to also grapple with the reality that you may never, ever, ever be able to live up to them. And when you are so young, when these things happen to your parents and you're hearing these Amazing stories. Everything about them, I'm assuming, feels so much larger than life. And that makes it even more difficult and just more daunting to try to meet that level of heroism. And he does. But he did it because he found out who he was and he figured out what it meant once he realized that he could do it, that it was possible for him to learn these spells, to do these things. All it took really was confidence from someone like Carrie in those DA lessons. And he said, oh, okay, I can do this. And became this hero that surpasses anything that I think many of us at the beginning of these books would have thought possible for him. And I think more than what he thought was possible for himself. And it all comes from a place of wanting to make his parents proud. But I also think of wanting to make himself proud and prove to himself that he belongs in a world that he was made to feel like he didn't belong in. And so like there is both an intrinsic and an extrinsic motivation for his heroism. But the one thing we can't deny is that Neville is a hero. Is Neville Longbottom a good friend? About 95.8% of us said yes. About 3.7% of us said don't know and the rest said no. Someone wrote, neville is a true friend to the Trio. He tries to warn Harry about Draco in their first year and he remains loyal to Harry and others throughout the series. He even follows Harry's example and leads an underground resistance when Hogwarts becomes a school run by Death Eaters. Someone else wrote, is Neville a good friend? Absolutely. He's a better friend than most of those he considers friends deserve. Well, the two moments I think prove this without a doubt is when he stands up to the Golden Trio in book one and going to the Ministry in book five. Sometimes a good friend is one who will tell it to you straight and not allow you to continue with your bad habits. They may have petrified and ignored him, see them not deserving his friendship, but he is one who will be real with you and hold you accountable for your own mess. I'm censoring him. Going to the Ministry, though, is hands down the ultimate level of friendship displayed in the series at this time. Neville didn't know that Sirius was innocent. He knew him as a murderer and an escaped convict. The cousin of a woman who tortured his family to insanity. And he still went with Harry, no questions asked when he saw how worried and upset he was about the situation. That is some top tier friendship right there. Someone Else wrote, Neville is a great friend, loyal to the end. When Harry went to the ministry to save his godfather who was still considered a murderer, Neville never thought twice about going. He joined his friends because of his love for Harry. He was willing to stand up when no one else would. Again this feels like such a no brainer to me. I think when we look at Neville and we see what he is willing to do for the people that he cares about, I think it is so evident to me that he is an incredible friend to everyone who considers him to be a friend. And even in the moments, like one of the comments said, where people can't show up for Neville the way that he shows up for them, he's still there for them. And I think that that resilience comes from having to step up and be there for adults in his life who can't be there for him the way that he would want them to be. One thing that we know for certain is that Alice and Frank Longbottom were people who were loved not only by their family, but by their friends. Right. We hear the real Mad Eye Moody talking about the different people in the Order, we hear Sirius talking about it and we know that they were people who were respected and loved and that they were just great people by all accounts. And even in the moments when we see them in St. Mungo's and Order of the Phoenix and their minds are not all the way there, there is still something about the way that they interact with Neville that makes it so clear just who they are. Like there are some things that you can't lose. And even when there are faculties and things that may be gone, there are just things that are truly at the essence of who a person is. And I think in the moments where we see Neville with his parents, we see the essence of who they all are. And Neville brings that with him everywhere. Neville wears his heart on his sleeve. He is available and present for people when they need him to be. He recognizes that people don't necessarily respect him the way that he deserves and he's still shows up. And you know, I think we talk a lot about, you know, the strength and the bravery it takes to stand up to friends. But it also is really hard to be friends to people who can't necessarily be a good friend to you and consistently. And Neville does that regardless. And I think that that's something that he and Luna have in common but for different reasons. And I think that, you know, his parents legacy lives on in him. Not only in the brave actions that he takes, but also in the friendships that he makes and in the hashtag bars and in the way that he goes about loving people. And he is the person who, after Harry dies the first time, stands up in front of Voldemort in whose name his parents lost their minds. And he gives this amazing soliloquy about his love and faith for Harry and what Harry represented and what Harry meant to him and to other people. And I think that moment again where he's staring in the face of this outrageously frightening person who scares people to the point where they won't even say his name. And in this moment, Neville, whose greatest fear at 13 was his potions teacher, is standing there and defending his friend whose body is being held by one of the other teachers. And he doesn't waver, he doesn't question, he just goes. And we would be so lucky to have an ounce of the bravery and the gumption that it takes to be that person in moments where everything in our bodies is telling us to run in the other direction. And so, yeah, again, it feels like not even a question about whether Neville is a good friend. And I said I wasn't getting emotional and then I did, but doesn't matter because you only know because I told you so. Yeah, wow. How about that? For this episode's reflection, I'm going to share an abridged version of my conversation with the chronic overthinkers during our monthly virtual meetup. I cannot wait for you all to hear the brilliance that they brought to bear in thinking about whether or not we believe that Neville could do what Harry ultimately had to do. We know that they were meant, it could have been one or the other. And the question was kind of what would have happened if it had been Neville? Could he have done it? So listen in and feel free to share your thoughts in the post episode chat. The question that I want us to think about as it pertains to Neville is do we think that he could have done what Harry had to do? Like if Voldemort had chosen him over Harry, like ultimately given everything that we know, like, do we think that he would have been able to do it? That's as easy as a way as I can word it. Okay, so we'll start with Laura and then we'll just go to Eric.
- [68:18]
Chronic Overthinker
Yeah, thanks. I think I said that in my survey as well. In terms of the self sacrifice, I don't have any doubt that he would have been willing to go there. I think what's interesting is that Harry starts with some naivete kind of into this whole scenario. And I think that's why he doesn't doubt himself as much. So I think in terms of the earlier challenges, I'm not as sure how well Neville would have done. Especially because he didn't have the same kind of support as Harry had in the earlier books. But seeing as how he became such a leader later on in Gryffindor, I do believe so. I mean, he finished off one of the Horcruxes, so that wouldn't have been an issue. He turned out to be a true Gryffindor. He got the sword. And I think we see, I don't think any character that's less kind and selfless in a way. So I definitely believe that he would sacrifice himself in a heartbeat for anyone else.
- [69:19]
Professor Julian Womble
Eric, what's up? This is a question that I hadn't really considered before. For Neville, this is different because, like, Neville has family that doesn't hate his guts, right? Like, Neville still grows up with love. Admittedly, like love with a lot of baggage from his grandmother and his uncles and whatever and tough love. But, like, his parents are still alive and, like, still capable of showing him affection, right? Like, Harry grows up with none of that. And so, like, without his parents being alive, he certainly would have been capable of doing that, I think. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. And I think so much of what we understand about Harry's weaponization, right, is that it comes from lacking something. Cassie?
- [70:03]
Chronic Overthinker
Yeah. Kind of going off of what Eric said as well. I think Neville himself is capable. I think at his core he's like, I will do what it takes to get the job done to be a good person. Neville would have grown up in the wizarding world. He didn't have Muggle family to go ship him off to to isolate him to, you know, really put him kind of in that trauma situation to bring him back Almost, you know, 100% loyal to Dumbledore and those who got him out of it. So I think Neville almost would have come in a lot stronger growing up knowing, like, this happened to him. This was now his goal. This was something he needed to overcome. Like, I almost feel like he would have come in with more confidence.
- [70:44]
Professor Julian Womble
It's also interesting too, because when you think about, you know, the fact that, like, Neville has an anchor in the magical world in a way that just like Harry doesn't necessarily have and that that anchor he's got, like, kind of two. His parents and his grandma and his grandma's like, go get revenge. Like, you need to like step up. And then his parents are kind of, they, he doesn't, it doesn't seem like he has the, like that I don't know that they would want the same thing for him that his, that, that we know his grandma's pushing for. Part of what we know Dumbledore does is kind of create this level of isolation and this level of dependency on him for Harry on Dumbledore. And we can quibble about motives and things of that nature later. But I do think that like the circumstance in which Harry is found is one that primes him to do the things that he does. And I think that because Neville does to Eric and other points like has adults in his life who he does trust, I think that that makes a difference in terms of like how far Neville would have been willing to go to do the things that needed to be done. Then we'll go to Carmen.
- [72:01]
Chronic Overthinker
So I agree with a lot of points that have been said. I do wonder though what effect it would have on Neville being a kid that is being trained especially by his grandmother to ultimately defeat this guy. I want to say that even though Neville would be growing up in the wizarding community, I don't know how much that would help him because there's this added stress that he's going to be not open to but exposed to by his grandmother, his family, the whole of the wizarding world. It's like, hey, you're our savior. I hope you're ready to lay down your life for us. Because we're not going to do the hard work. The wizarding world is not going to do the hard work of fixing the themselves. They're going to in turn turn to Neville Longbottom, really to anybody else to try to fix themselves. So it's slightly unfair and I would feel sorry for Neville, but I do think that he could grow into that sort of responsibility. And I would just hope that his grandmother, which I'm not too sure how she's capable of having the sensitivity to not lay it on him too much. Because I'm like girl, I get it. You're grieving the loss of your son and your daughter in law who you seem to have loved a lot. But your grandson is still a kid. Neville's capable. I just fear that he's gonna go through a lot before he even has to go and face Voldemort. So who knows, maybe facing his grandmother is gonna be make Voldemort a cakewalk.
- [73:31]
Professor Julian Womble
But yeah, that's really interesting to think about too, about, you know, because we don't think about it for Harry, because it feels like Harry is doing this, like, because he wants to. It feels like he's like, absolutely volunteering. And I feel like when we look at Neville, it seems like there would be this kind of sense of, like. Like we would be forcing it. Like, we would have to be like, no, you need to. Like, we need to. We'll be pushing Neville to do this. And I think that for Harry, it felt much more like very early on, like this kind of sacrificial instinct was something that he had. And I think that there is a meaningful difference in that regard, I think. Mila, please.
- [74:07]
Chronic Overthinker
I kind of wanted to. When you first asked the question, I was thinking, like, for sure, Neville is the king. And he is, like, grows up to be this character who is very reliable, very brave, very smart, takes on leadership roles. But then again, when I was kind of reflecting before answering the survey for Neville, I was reading Philosophers Stone and he's very afraid in that one and a lot more present than I remember, actually. But he. When they find out about Fluffy, he's super afraid. He doesn't want to do anything with that. So I think, like, how Neville's character goes. He becomes this kind of hero personality, in my opinion. But then if we look at him as a kid, for sure, I think he would have struggled with going after Voldemort, for example. But I do agree with this kind of point that was made earlier by multiple people that the confidence that would have come, like, if his grandmother would have been more proud of him and kind of celebrated his success of defeating Voldemort, I think his confidence level would have gone up and he would have been a completely different character.
- [75:31]
Professor Julian Womble
Yeah. And I think you point to something really, really important, right? Like, Harry is reckless. Like, and there is in some ways, especially very early on in these books, there's a. There's necessity for recklessness. Because even after they all see Fluffy, like, Neville's like, enough, I'm good. And Ron and Harry are like, that was actually a lot of fun. And so they like, it kind of lit the fire of adventure in them. And Neville's like, put it out. Like, I'm good on adventure. I don't need any of. And I think that is another thing that kind of separates Harry from Neville. And it's not clear what the impetus for that recklessness is insofar that. But it does exist. And I think that a lot of what we see Harry do across these books is, like, requires a level of recklessness. And we See Neville arrive there, we see him kind of get to that place once he gets more confidence. Right. And so maybe this kind of confidence that we kind of see in his arc motivates him to be more. More reckless. And we construe that idea of recklessness with bravery. And those two things can go together. But I think we also see brave moments from Neville that are not reckless. Jasmine, please.
- [76:51]
Chronic Overthinker
Yeah, I wanted to touch on two points I kind of agree with everyone of. Is he capable? Theoretically, yes. Practically, no. And I think there are some certain components with that. One being that Harry has been deprived of the magical world for so long and then when he's 11, he's ushered into this magical place where he has friends and food and, like, he wants to protect that. And so I understand the motivation of why he willingly sometimes volunteers himself to protect this thing that he has now found. But I also think we're underestimating the importance of Ron and Hermione in Harry's journey. Like, yes, Harry ultimately alone goes into the Forbidden Forest and sacrifices himself. But, like, a big part of why Harry is able to do the things he's able to do because he has a Ron and a Hermione to support him. And that's what I love about the Golden Trio so much. And Neville doesn't have that as much. Or like, he, you know, he's not really popular. And so I find it very hard with him not having his own run in Hermione that he's able to build the confidence that he would need to. To face Voldemort.
- [78:17]
Professor Julian Womble
Yeah. And also to have people who can pull you back from the brink. Right. Like, we know that when Harry. Like, there are a number of moments where Harry is ready to just go it alone. And both Ron and Hermione are like, don't be dumb. Please save yourself. This is ridiculous. And also moments where he needs to remember them, like when the dementors come and he has to, or when Voldemort possesses him and he has these memories of them. And I think it's more than even just the kind of tangible friendship that they bring, but it's also the kind of what they have given Harry through the friendship that I think makes a really big difference. And I think you're right, Jasmine, you know that Neville gets friends, but. And again. And it's interesting that we see the moment where he kind of acquires this kind of solid friend group is also the moment where we see him move into a much more confident, much more reckless, much more like traditional gryffindor space, which is fascinating, right, because it's very, like, we talk a lot about, like, you know, Hoppo Pops and friendship and all of these things. And it really does. Like, it rings true for me that so much of what we see, Harry being able to accomplish is not only just because of the acumen of these individuals, but also just what they offer and bring to Harry. And when Neville gets that, he is able to do the same thing. But it's not to say that it's too late, but it is just a very different time in his life. And I think that what also helps Neville kind of curb what we might consider recklessness is his fear, which I think is healthy. That he is someone who, like, doesn't feel like he has to be unafraid. The thing about Neville, and it's often played for laughs in the books, but his forgetfulness. And there's something very human about Neville. I think that's why so many people love him, because there is such a human. There's a humanity to him that doesn't feel, like, preternatural in terms of, like, you know, Harry is just, like, ready to go full tilt from the moment in the Hogwarts. And Neville is like, y'all, I didn't even know if I was gonna be here. It just strikes me that, like, you know, of what would have made Neville's journey, had he been the Chosen One, more difficult. I think he could have done it. But I think what would have made it more difficult is that one, he has things to lose that feel very tangible. Who does he turn the Resurrection Stone to see? Like, his loss is still alive. And something about that, I think, would have made him a much more formidable photo Voldemort. Because he could have never understood that. Because Voldemort thinks that death is the worst thing. And Neville knows, like, that's actually not true. Right? Like, his parents are still alive but not present. And that feels worse to me than death. And so it just. There's something about it that I think he would have pulled it off. But, oh, my God, like, what a journey it would have been. And I just. I feel like I would have not been okay emotionally. I would have absolutely lost my mind. Y'all, we did it. We made it through an episode on Neville Longbottom King, Neville Mehee forever reign. I almost cried twice. Had tears coming down my face once. It's a win for me personally. And I didn't even give you cry voice, so it doesn't even count. Thank you all so much. For listening. And thank you to the chronic overthinkers who met up with me on Saturday for being willing to share their thoughts with us. You know, I hope that you all give me something good to work with for the episode that's to come on who it's going to be. I'm giving you all until Friday. Right now it's giving Rufus Grimgeour and Cornelius Fudge, which was a little bit on the nose for those of us in the United States right now. But if that's the case and that's what we're gonna do, that's what we're gonna do. So please go feel free and check that out on the Patreon and share your thoughts. This has been another episode of Critical Magic Theory. I'm Professor Julian Womble and if you like today's episode, first of all, thank you. Please feel free to, like, rate, subscribe, do all the things where pods are cast. We don't know what the next episode is going to be, but y'all, it's gonna be good. So I hope that you listen in. Hold on. We gotta bop along. We're boppin. Please feel free to join us for our post episode chat on patreon patreon.com criticalmagic theory and until the next episode, be critical and stay magical, my friends. Bye.