← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Debunking MAHA Lies and Explaining Year 1 Trump Controversies | Calley Means
01:15:07
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- [00:00]
Alex Clark
Polling says that parents overwhelmingly support vaccinating their children.
- [00:05]
Cali Means
Those polls are bs. That's like saying do you support food or do you support drugs? It's like the which one? Those polls are being done by pharmaceutical companies to kind of skew the debate.
- [00:15]
Alex Clark
What are Trump and Bobby Kennedy's goals for maha?
- [00:17]
Cali Means
Year two there's going to be an explosion of MAHA legislation going into next year. Cell phones out of schools, physical activity, school lunches, medical freedom. Anyone concerned about why children are so sick in this country need to enthusiastically, enthusiastically support MAGA and be praying that this coalition that President Trump has put together is the dominant political force over the next 10 years. Because we are getting a lot done, but we are not scratching the surface.
- [00:58]
Alex Clark
Foreign since the last time we had Cali Means on this podcast, a lot has changed. What started as a disruptive wellness movement is now shaping national policy, influencing the White House, shaking up the NIH and putting Big Food and Big Pharma on defense. Cali Means is the co founder of True Med, a former political insider turned health reformer, and one of the boldest voices behind the Make America Healthy Again movement, or Maha. If you've seen him on the Charlie Kirk show, Tucker Carlson's podcast, or working alongside RFK Jr. And President Trump's new health policy team, you know he's not afraid to go after the systems that are making Americans sick and profiting from it. In this conversation, we get into the latest on Maha from controversy surrounding President Trump offering pharma companies a break if they manufacture in the US to early puberty in girls, the rising infertility Crisis, allegations that RFK Jr. Is a quack, and even pressing him on claims that he's using his special government role to grow his personal business. If you care about the future of health, the truth about chronic disease, or simply want to understand what Maha is actually doing inside this administration, don't skip this. Cali is one of the most popular guests we've ever had on the show. We're happy to have him back. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture Apothecary on Spotify. This show is free, but one of the most impactful ways you can support us so that we can stay a free show is by pausing the episode before we start and leaving a five star review. That can happen on Spotify or Apple. Join the cute Servitus Facebook group to discuss the show and meet like minded women and send this episode to the liberal in your life who is skeptical of Maha. Today's episode is brought to you by the all new Jevity Studio, please welcome New York Times bestselling co author of Good Energy, founder of True Med and special government employee to HHS and the Trump admin. Cali means to culture apothecary. Since the last time we talked, everything has changed. Can you talk about what you've been doing with the Trump admin and Bobby?
- [03:01]
Cali Means
I think we've seen one of the most important political movements and most successful political movements in the past year with Maha. Just a year ago at a Turning Point event, RFK came out and endorsed President Trump. And I think what we've accomplished in the past year from Secretary Kennedy and this movement going from outside advocates to at the seat of power is extraordinary. In one year, we have opened up a conversation on medical freedom. We're able to talk about taboo subjects we've never been able to talk about before. We are going to be releasing nutrition guidelines and revolutionize school food, military food. We are going to have front of pack food labeling. We're going to taking food chemicals, dangerous chemicals out of the food supply. I mean, you can just go down the list. Additionally, the NIH completely and utterly transformed. For 40 years, the NIH was run by Dr. Fauci and Zacholytes. They're actually asking what's causing autism, what's causing Alzheimer's, what's causing diabetes, what's causing all these issues. They're asking root cause questions. So the amount of change and how fast that's happened is extraordinary. This is a long term, messy conversation. But Donald Trump deserves unbelievable credit for sitting in that desk every single day and having Bobby's back and encouraging him to go against special interests and ask tough questions.
- [04:10]
Alex Clark
What is your title or role? Because you're a special government employee, right?
- [04:13]
Cali Means
I'm a special government employee at the White House, really tasked with making Maha successful. I think that women, young people, independents, they broke extraordinarily for President Trump in this election. And there is a deep sense in every single meeting of, of the commitment.
- [04:31]
Casey Means
We have to those voters.
- [04:32]
Cali Means
You know, it's, it's amazing being in these meetings. We're talking about food issues, we're talking about pharmaceutical issues. And it's so clear in previous administrations, the voice of the American child, the voice of the American mother was not at those tables. And every single meeting, the voice of the voters that came together on this issue. Maha is a complex issue. I think it's many different components, but I think the through line that's talked about every single day in the administration that I feel A huge obligation to advocate for Israel is the children and mothers and their cries for why kids are getting so sick. And every single day that voter constituencies talked about were winning arguments. And that's what I'm there to advocate for. My goal in life is that this is remembered as one of the most important political realignments in American history. And I think that's a long term, messy endeavor. But we are trying. And my focus is on delivering for MAHA voters and keeping this coalition alive. And for anyone concerned about children's health, and I can tell you this with full certainty from sitting inside that room, anyone concerned about why children are so sick in this country need to enthusiastically support MAGA and be praying that this coalition that President Trump has put together is the dominant political force over the next 10 years. Because we are getting a lot done this year, but we are not scratching the surface. This is a ten year endeavor. And that's not to set expectations. That's not to tell people to not be, you know, to be patient or not be advocating for change. This is the political system in America. We have a democracy. We need to have time to transform the foundations of how we think about our food and think about our health.
- [06:11]
Alex Clark
And I know what you're saying. It's not to discourage people and voters. It's. It's saying maha has to be something that we vote for every single presidential election, you know, at least for the next two cycles. I've been saying, saying maha transcends maga. It has to.
- [06:25]
Cali Means
I see it as. There is, it's much wider than politics. Charlie Kirk talked about this all the time. I don't think his goal was partisan politics. It was, you know, a spiritual and cultural transformation the country. I think maha is in a very similar vein. I think the success of maha is much larger than policy change. It's a true, you know, I think cultural transformation and respect for our health, respect for children's, respect for our soil. But I will say it is so clear when we're debating on the political lens, there's no competition here. The, the right MAGA is taking this issue up. 30 state governors have passed Maha legislation. The states, you have senators in, congressmen on the right fighting for, you know, common sense. Maha things in the opposition from the Democrats. And President Trump has, has ceased this. Filtering these ideas through politics is unreservedly, I think, supporting the MAGA side. Now, as far as the timing, I think a lot about the abortion issue. When Roe v. Wade was enacted, the Federalist Society in 1982 formed and they said, we are going to reverse Roe v. Wade. And this was a life and death issue too, and huge passion, an unruly base, and it took 40 years. So they, they planned a very calculated effort to get their ideas into schools, get their ideas to politicians, get their ideas to presidential candidates. But a 1982, the idea of conservative justices was unheard of. All the justices were liberal and it was a 40 year effort with many, many times where the base said, you're not moving hard enough, you're not pushing fast enough, this is life and death. But there was a strategy and if you're playing for change in the political system, you have to think long term. And that's how we're thinking about Maha. Like if we can embed this, these ideas into the core of the party and into the core politics and win the argument, and I would argue we had not fully won the argument yet. We need to win the argument in order to win. That's a long term endeavor, even though it's a life and death issue.
- [08:28]
Alex Clark
When you talk about the strategy that the pro life movement used over those 40 years and how it was, it was a little bit slow, but it was very strategic and obviously they ended up getting it done. Is that similar or in the similar vein as how you feel we should be approaching the vaccine topic, which I know some people are upset, they don't think that we're moving fast enough. You're saying like you need to give it time. This is basically like a religion to people. We can't just pull the rug out.
- [08:52]
Cali Means
I would say this. If you are looking for radical, dramatic, immediate change, you should not be looking to Washington D.C. and the government. And that's not to say anything that, you know, be more patient or get in line. It's just the reality of our system, in our system. And I grew up in D.C. right. It's incremental change. I talked to Newt Gingrich about this question recently, who I think arguably put together one of the most successful coalitions, the Contract with America. That was a 10 point plan that they ran off and drove real change in the 1990s, I think more than almost any time in American history of conservative change. And he said, you are being a fool to not focus on anything other than winning the argument in the next two years. We haven't fully won the argument on vaccines. If you know that's an issue very important to you. Polls still show a lot of mixed opinions on that. We have not fully won the argument that the medical system is incentivized for us to be sick. I mean, you and I know that to be true. And there's so many people around us and there's people waking up on that question. But when you look at polls, there's still the highest trust of any person in the medical system is doctors as medical groups. So I. I think we still have a lot to do to make our views the consensus in America. To have 70% of people agree with them. It would be, I think, the most destructive thing to the movement, to not engage on all sides, to not try to find compromise, to not try to find incremental change. Because if we push too hard where the American people aren't there, we're going to kill the movement.
- [10:22]
Alex Clark
You're saying it would be a mistake to fully rely on government to do that. This is really a cultural spiritual work. Like, we need to educate people on the cultural level to kind of get this movement going. Like, it's more up to you and I.
- [10:34]
Cali Means
People should be radical and uncompromising in their daily personal lives. I think our public school system is absolutely broken. We're looking at homeschooling or looking at a radical type of school. I have severe concerns with pediatricians, the vaccine schedule, the pharmaceutical industrial complex. We are making bold decisions with our children. I think we're on the verge of a food collapse in this country. And I think our food system and what we're feeding our kids is an existential problem in this country. I'm making those choices for my child. I think the political system, the federal political system, the most important thing it does, it's a tool to drive market change. We have to drive market change.
- [11:14]
Casey Means
We have to have.
- [11:15]
Cali Means
And the most important accomplishment, in my opinion, is that parents are asking more questions of their pediatricians, that parents are making different decisions about what they're eating. Snacking of ultra processed food has gone down 7% this year. There's dramatic changes in how we think about vaccines, how we think about drugs for kids. Parents are asking dramatically more questions before they accept that SSRI for their teenage daughter or the Adderall for their son. That's where we need to change. That's our battle line, and we are winning that battle. And I think what's happening with this Maha movement now being at the center of politics is we're legitimizing those conversations and speeding up that market change. The world will change if the market changes. The market is above politics, but the market is very skewed, and there's trillions of dollars of incentives that are trying to Jam those drugs down your child's throat and jam ultra processed food down their throat. And a lot of lower income people particularly are really, really suffering from those incentives. The strategy is we need to do dramatic policy change, and we've had dramatic policy change in the next year and we're going to have more in the following year. We have to bring the market there too.
- [12:14]
Alex Clark
When people say, well, polling says that parents overwhelmingly support vaccinating their children, what's your response to that?
- [12:21]
Cali Means
My response is those polls are BS because what does it even mean to say, do you support vaccinations? And that's what those, those polls say. I mean, okay, people are going about their business. They've been told for decades that those are, you know, perfect products and do you support vaccinations? That's, that's 72 different shots, right? That, that's like saying, do you support food or do you support drugs? It's like the. Which one? So, so that's a very, very purposely and I'll say deliberately misleading question. Those polls are being done by pharmaceutical companies to kind of skew the debate and give talking points to people that you're probably hearing them from. I could create a poll where 90% of people agree. On the other side, I could do a poll saying, do you support sexually transmitted disease therapeutic for a baby in their second hour of life? If the mom tested negative for that disease and there's really no other documented way the child can get it, 90% of people would say no to that. I could ask a question. Do you think it should be aggressively studied why the United States gives two times more shots than Norway and other leading European countries? And is that an appropriate thing to scrutinize? And do you think it's appropriate for parents to be have the option of having the Norway schedule for Most people would agree with that. I could do a poll saying Japan and other countries are experimenting and seen positive effects with spacing vaccines out and giving them later on in life. And that shows lower rates of various comorbidities. Should we take a hard look at.
- [13:53]
Casey Means
That and give parents the option to.
- [13:54]
Cali Means
Follow the Japanese route?
- [13:55]
Casey Means
90% of people would say yes to that.
- [13:58]
Cali Means
So I think what the medical industrial complex is doing is they're heartened by the polls saying there's support for vaccines, whatever that means, and they're using that to just aggressively impugn Secretary Kennedy. And I don't think it's going to work.
- [14:16]
Alex Clark
Right.
- [14:17]
Cali Means
What I think we're leading towards is a mantra and a, and a Vibe for what the Republican Party is doing is that we are the party of bravery. That's what I see in the White House right now. We are turning over every stone. We are talking about cell phone usage, we are talking about food. We are talking about over medicalization, we are talking about vaccines, we are talking about pesticides. We are talking about every single possible issue that could impact our children's health.
- [14:45]
Casey Means
And putting together a, a thesis that there's something clearly wrong happening.
- [14:49]
Alex Clark
Okay, well, let's talk about pesticides. Does Bobby Kennedy feel betrayed by congressional Republicans on this chemical liability shield?
- [14:56]
Cali Means
What I see from Secretary Kennedy is that he sees in President Trump and generally how the Republican Party has embraced this movement as the most inspiring, surprising and positive development in his life and almost a spiritual issue. In just a year, an entire party has dramatically shifted the overton window and dramatically shifted policy preferences to battle for children's health. No, I don't think people in the White House are frustrated at all. I think we're inspired by the conversation happening. But let's take pesticides. In the past three months, I've met with over 100 farming groups, gone to a bunch of farms. I've traveled around the country, and I've been probably more inspired by those conversations than almost anything. And here's why. It's because this conversation is really messy. I've talked to farmers who are going bankrupt. They are getting killed right now. Farmers are getting absolutely killed. And 99% of corn in this country is sprayed with pesticides. They feel assaulted with tariffs, with low commodity prices, with weather, with all these other liberal policies that have been absolutely screwing them. They're like, oh, great, now we're being lectured on how to farm.
- [16:17]
Casey Means
So.
- [16:17]
Cali Means
So, So I actually think the fact that we're having these conversations, the fact.
- [16:21]
Casey Means
That Secretary Kennedy certainly has strong opinions.
- [16:23]
Cali Means
On pesticides and so do I, but.
- [16:25]
Casey Means
He'S in power now. And the fact that these conversations have to happen. If these conversations don't happen face to face, what, what is the other option?
- [16:34]
Alex Clark
Well, I understand what the farmers are saying, but my question is, Cali, shouldn't the American consumer be able to sue the chemical company if they get sick by their product? And isn't that the question?
- [16:44]
Casey Means
There are efforts at every single moment in states. There's been decades of efforts on Congress on various loopholes like that. And I don't know how far along that is. The White House has a mega comment. I think the idea that there's going to be unrelenting efforts to protect industries from Congress and Other routes is obvious. That's not disappointing, that's obvious. And we'll see how that plays out. Secretary Kennedy hasn't talked about, the White House hasn't talked about it. You know, Congress, that's going to happen in Congress. There's going to be a lot of efforts to help industry. I'd say higher level. What's happening is that every single board meeting in this country of a food company or an agriculture company, first order of business is talking about this tidal wave of voter outcry about what's happening to our food. That's a fact. And you know, this MAHA report that was released, you know, it's real. I mean, I mean, I will say everyone understands there's a problem. Everybody understands there's a problem of how we prioritize food, of how we have 70% of our child's diet ultra processed, where it's 10% in France. Everyone behind closed doors admits there's a serious problem and they understand the problem with soil health. And there's a ton of positive initiatives we're doing to improve soil health, to grow more with less inputs, things like that. Saying that pesticide should be banned tomorrow isn't a viable option.
- [18:17]
Alex Clark
Right.
- [18:17]
Casey Means
It's just, it's just not. The fact that we're having these messy conversations and getting action, you know, to me is extremely inspiring.
- [18:29]
Alex Clark
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- [21:23]
Cali Means
I think that interests that profit from Americans being sick have co opted every institution that we grew up being told to trust. So the pharmaceutical industry is the single largest contributor to pharmaceutical ads. We've talked about this before. We go on news a lot and it's so pernicious how their reflexive inclination is not to ask how Covid could be clearly tied to metabolic health. Why 16 of COVID deaths in the world were American citizens when we're 4% of the world's population, but really say that Pseudoscience, misinformation, talk about any link between covet and our underlying metabolic health which is the result of all these external factors. And say you are a war criminal for not questioning, for questioning this pharmaceutical product. It's very pernicious. So that's the media academic research. The lifeblood of academic research is hundreds of billions of dollars from pharmaceutical companies. 66% of psychiatrists in the United States.
- [22:23]
Casey Means
This is on a government website, have.
- [22:25]
Cali Means
Taken money from SSRI makers.
- [22:27]
Casey Means
Direct payments, direct bribes. It's actually legal to do.
- [22:30]
Cali Means
You just have to put on a website.
- [22:32]
Casey Means
66% of all psychiatrists in this country have taken those payments. The American Academy Pediatrics, the American Medical association, the American Psychiatric association.
- [22:43]
Cali Means
These, these are pharmaceutical groups.
- [22:45]
Casey Means
They're 90 funded by pharmaceuticals. And then through decades of the fact that lawmakers themselves, they're paid more by the pharmaceutical insurance industries than any other industry times three have made the law such that we've outsourced medical decision making to these groups, the American Academy of Pediatrics. They actually are able to set codes for where CMS pays money so that when you're at a pediatrician's office, if they go against the embedded logic from these groups, they could lose their license. That's why they, you know, recommend ultra processed food as the first food for kids to eat. That's why they, you know, basically kick you out of the practice if you don't take the pharmaceutical products on their exact schedule.
- [23:26]
Cali Means
Also through description, they have kickbacks where they actually get more money for prescribing drug. The quality metrics that doctors and pediatricians are incentivized on where they get millions of dollars of payments from the, the metric, the primary quality metric is whether patients are taking the drugs, not whether they're healthy. So that, that, that's kind of the medical industry, the lawmakers, the top donators are pharmaceutical industries. And then, you know, it's not that pharma's all bad. We're having a lot of conversation with pharma. But as a primary statement of economic fact, the institutions that influence our health care make more money when an American, particularly a child, is sick and lose money when they're healthy. Pharma makes money when more drugs are prescribed. Insurance companies make money when costs go up. Interestingly, hospitals make money when beds are full. And this is the largest industry in the country. And what Bobby Kennedy and President Trump are now seeing in government is that these forces, these really powerful forces just bear down on the White House. It's impossible even know where they're coming from. But there's so many jobs, so much money, so much dignity of all these med school deans and all these scientists where their fundamental incentive structure of their industry is being questioned. It's just. It's just barreling down in so many misdirected ways. And I again think this first year of MAHA has been extraordinarily successful. You know, you look at the unrelenting negative press for the haters.
- [24:51]
Casey Means
Yeah.
- [24:52]
Alex Clark
In this first year of the Trump administration, what has MAHA accomplished?
- [24:55]
Cali Means
In the first year of the Trump administration, the MAHA movement has accomplished more significant public health reforms than at any time in modern history. You have these influencers and scientists often make the similar argument. They say, well, Bobby Kennedy is right about what he's saying generally that we're really sick and the incentives are screwed up, but he hasn't done anything. And then they list in these podcasts, they always list what they would do and they list exactly what we've done. We have taken soda and Candy off of SNAP. SNAP is 120 billion dollar program. It's the fourth largest entitlement program in the country. 15 of Americans depend on this program for food. It's a massive distorter of worldwide agriculture incentives. We spend so much money on snap. The number one item was soda. This is the number one agenda point for the American Beverage association. Every lobbyist in D.C. said this is so important to Coca Cola and the other companies. That will never change. And it changed in three months. Now 30 states are working with the federal government to remove soda and candy from snap. We have transformational nutrition guidelines coming out.
- [25:59]
Casey Means
In the first year.
- [25:59]
Cali Means
They're going to be coming out very soon, maybe by the time this is out. For decades, we've been living under the thumb of nutrition guidelines where 95% of advisors were paid for by food companies. So President Biden's team that gave us the initial recommendations that we were, you know, supposed to rubber stamp.
- [26:16]
Casey Means
Stamp.
- [26:16]
Cali Means
We've thrown them in the trash. We've thrown them in the trash. They said the number one prism for the dietary guidelines under President Biden, what we were supposed to rubber stamp was health equity. What does that mean?
- [26:26]
Casey Means
That means that we should just recommend cheap, crappy food.
- [26:31]
Cali Means
Because it's cheaper, because.
- [26:33]
Casey Means
There'S health equity disparities, that it's actually racist to recommend whole healthy food. That is the argument aggressively from the nutrition guidelines. The equity lens, the affordability lens has infiltrated into the science when the nutrition guidelines should just be recommending what is the Best possible food to eat. It's not the job of the nutrition guidelines to set food prices.
- [26:54]
Alex Clark
I guess I just don't understand Kelly, and maybe I'm totally ignorant. I'm open to being ignorant. But what is their argument? I mean, that African American people don't have access to fruits and vegetables. They're going to the grocery store to get the soda. Why can't you just go and aisle over to use your snap or whatever it is? On the other things like if they're saying it's racist, I don't understand this argument.
- [27:13]
Cali Means
The argument is that because food is expensive, healthy food, it's racist to recommend it because so many people are struggling with their income.
- [27:25]
Casey Means
So the best we can possibly do is recommend the cheapest possible food.
- [27:29]
Cali Means
That's that.
- [27:29]
Casey Means
That is the overriding assumption in nutrition science today. I'll just stress this again. The primary lens of the previous administration's nutrition guidelines was not health of children, it was affordability. So these companies are able to weaponize these issues like transphobia, fat phobia with our food. The D. DEI has infiltrated the nutrition science debate by making hunger and affordability the primary focus and not nutrition. It's very pernicious.
- [28:04]
Alex Clark
So then how can we make it so it is affordable for them to get healthier food?
- [28:08]
Casey Means
Here's what the strategy for the mission and I, I think this, what's happening with the tradition guidelines is extremely important. So first, nutrition guidelines are going to come out that you can't even believe this, but for the first time in American history, actually take a stand on highly processed food. Under President Biden, the USDA put out a report saying a child's diet, 91% in ultra processed food, could be healthy. And this is what the scientists do. They say it's nuanced and complicated. Let me just explain this very clearly. If we can have a national effort, which is happening right now, to have a simple message of getting whole real food on a child's plate, we would wipe out so many of the diseases that are significantly higher. 6 times higher childhood obesity in America than in Europe. 6 times higher childhood diabetes in America than Europe, this would be a trillion dollar budget savings. The reason we're spending so much on healthcare is because we're sick. Right? So that message has never been given by the USDA. Still to this day, we're in the food pyramid. From the 1990s, grains are the most recommended food group. Added sugar. They say it's okay for a 2 year old to be a healthy part of a 2 year old's diet. It's crazy. And that's all from this co option of this, you know, toxic empathy that, you know, yes, that poor people are too poor, they're too stupid to not poison their kids.
- [29:23]
Alex Clark
That's what seems racist to me.
- [29:24]
Casey Means
The food industry has also weaponized feminism.
- [29:28]
Cali Means
The food industry has executed a multi decade argument that become because moms are so busy and because it's so hard to afford healthy food, that it is actually sexist to expect moms to provide healthy food for their kids. It is pernicious. It is blatant. When we meet with the food industry today, the highest ranking food industry, they implicitly accuse us of being sexist for suggesting that moms should be cooking whole.
- [29:58]
Casey Means
Food for their kids. And there's a underlying theme that it's.
- [30:04]
Cali Means
Unrealistic and we're living in kind of a 1950s pre feminist bizarro world. For the government to have that message, let's cook whole food for kids. It's very disturbing. The apparatus of the US nutrition system thinks that Americans are too poor, too stupid, too lazy to cook healthy food for their kids. So these nutrition guidelines are going to rebut that legacy of the food pyramid legacy of the decades and recommend whole food.
- [30:35]
Casey Means
Now what does that do?
- [30:36]
Cali Means
That then flows into school procurement for.
- [30:40]
Casey Means
Lunches, it flows into military, it floats into hospital foods.
- [30:43]
Alex Clark
It does, yes.
- [30:43]
Cali Means
The nutrition guidelines are one of the most important policy documents in the country because by law it sets standards for really wherever the government touches food. So hundreds of billions of dollars at least of direct government payments flow from the nutrition guidelines. And when we let those guidelines, starting with the food pyramid be co opted by special interests, that led to the hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars of government payment for ultra processed food. The school lunches have to abide by the nutrition guidelines. Military food. You won't believe this, but the various interests have really whipped up this concern about saturated fat, which is really concerned about protein. So the dietary guidelines have actually really demonized protein essentially and said that the plate should really be, you know, a lot of grains. Not even whole grains, processed grains. They've never taken a stand on whole grains being better than processed grains. And I've talked to a lot of military folks and Secretary Hegg said this, very amped up on this. But on military bases they can't really serve steak to soldiers because steak is considered, steak is considered worse than Doritos according to the dietary guidelines. Truly processed grains fine, steak bad. It's recommended against. So we, and then it just Gets very basic. So you have an epidemic of obesity and chronic disease among soldiers, obviously among kids. And you know, what, if we just serve them steak, some broccoli, some whole grains, I don't think we'd have as big of a problem. It's very simple. It directly will impact hundreds of billions of dollars of procurement. And then what if we do get to a question about affordability? What if we do get to that question? I somewhat dispute the premise that American mothers can't afford not to poison their kids. I don't agree with that. And I think you'll see a lot.
- [32:43]
Casey Means
Of public health messaging about how you.
- [32:44]
Cali Means
Can actually cook healthy on a budget.
- [32:46]
Casey Means
Let's just take that aside. The premise being wrong. Say it is right.
- [32:51]
Cali Means
We subsidize food so much in this country. We subsidize ultra processed food so much. Congress has voted literally for trillions of dollars of food subsidies over the past couple decades. Agriculture subsidies, additionally. Let's just think about just overall resources. We spend 6% of our federal budget and just national income when you combine government and personal income on food and 23% on health care. So we're prioritizing drugging people much more than just not poisoning them in the first place. It's reversed in Europe. In Europe, they spend two times more per capita than us on food and three times less on health care. So as a society, I don't think Americans voted for this. In America, we have voted for throwing a fit if we recommend, you know, slightly increased money on school lunches. But let's give all kids Ozempic. Let's give all kids Ozempic for hundreds of dollars, hundreds of dollars a month on Medicaid, but not think about what they're eating. So the idea that there's this cost issue when we're going bankrupt from healthcare costs in this country, it's what the shutdown's about. Like, the healthcare costs are like the biggest part of the U.S. budgets. 30% of the U.S. federal budget. Yeah, so. So that's what this is getting to. It's really an overarching prioritization conversation.
- [34:09]
Alex Clark
So the nutritional guidelines are going to be huge, and you're expecting that before the end of the year. Other Maha wins that we've accomplished food labeling.
- [34:15]
Cali Means
I think the autism announcement, the NIH represents a real cultural shift where they're asking real questions about why we're getting sick.
- [34:22]
Casey Means
The NIH, 95% of their budget prior to this administration was spent on pharmaceutical R and D, pharmacy gardening. Now that's being maligned by the media. But, but, but what? What? What an amazing change. It's amazing that it's being taxed so much that the NIH, which spends $50 billion a year on research, is actually marshaling from the top. Let's answer why people are getting sick. That's actually a profound change. I'd also say it's very notable that Brooke Rollins and Secretary Kennedy are taking on the food industry and special interests more than any administration in history. The SNAP reform front of packed food labeling reform. We have an ultra processed food definition coming up.
- [35:01]
Alex Clark
Operation Stork Speed.
- [35:03]
Casey Means
We're refining, finally looking at baby formula which hasn't been done in decades.
- [35:08]
Alex Clark
And what about the Presidential Fitness Test?
- [35:09]
Cali Means
Presidential Fitness Test. I mean this is what we're going to see going into the midterms, right? This administration working with states is aggressively working throughout the country to get kids moving. With the Presidential Fitness Test, the administration is supporting local and state efforts to get cell phones out of schools. Those bills are sweeping the country. We're taking a sledgehammer to over medicalization and the FDA is looking really hard at why so many girls are getting SSRI prescriptions, how many boys are getting Adderall prescriptions, why we have this over medicalization crisis. We are reforming our food system and school lunches and, and, and taking on ultra processed food more than any time in modern American history.
- [35:49]
Alex Clark
And then what about the revamping on the, on the vaccine committee or whatever.
- [35:53]
Cali Means
We're turning over every stone. Secretary Kennedy, President Trump's support. I mean this all goes to President Trump giving Secretary Kennedy air cover, fired the absolutely corrupt and conflicted people on the ACIP committee. And what have they done? They have removed the COVID recommendation. So they're saying it's so dangerous. Everyone's reading these articles. It's so dangerous they took the COVID vaccine recommendation from a blanket recommendation for six month adults. So you want to talk about polling, right. 90% of parents already made that decision themselves. And we're going against the CDC guidance. Right. The next dangerous thing they're looking at is a discussion and nuanced discussion which haven't isn't been decided yet on Hep B, which is an STD drug. So they're actually a diversity of opinions now on vaccines.
- [36:46]
Alex Clark
You ever have one of those days where everything goes wrong? Last year my cousin ended up in the ER after a serious allergic reaction. We thought insurance would cover it. Right? Wrong. Claim denied. They said the hospital coded it incorrectly even though he was literally unconscious. And that's just one example Navigating health insurance feels like trying to solve a Rubik's Cube blindfolded underwater while someone's taking your money. That's why I got the chance to talk with Andy, the CEO of Crowd Health, and I was so excited because he completely blew my mind. Health insurance companies, they're incentivized to deny claims and hike your premiums. They're not on your side. Crowd Health is different. It's a platform built by people who get it it. When you sign up, you get telemedicine, you get discounted prescriptions, access to cash, pay doctors, which are the best kinds, and a community that actually has your back. When someone needs help, you help them. When it's your turn, the crowd steps in. Stop relying on broken systems. Let crowd health help with your health care needs. Get started today for just 99 per month for your first three months by using code culture@joincrowdhealth.com and if you have questions about open enrollment, because we all know that's harder to understand than than giving illegal immigrants free health care, use this link in the episode Description to sign up for Crowd Health's open enrollment webinar with CEO Andy Shunover on November 11th. Crowd health is not insurance. Learn more at joincrowdhealth.com Code Culture so I was backpacking through the Rockies last summer, right? And somehow I ended up hiking with this newt. A Spanish speaking newt. Couldn't stop talking. Literally narrated every rock, every tree, every squirrel. I swear it was like living inside a telenovela, but with amphibians. Absolute chaos. That story didn't make sense. But you know what does? Primally Pure. I've been using their non toxic holiday body wash and their sleep spray and it's like someone finally hit mute on life's nonsense. The body wash, which is their new holiday one, smells like cozy vanilla Mint Bliss Clean, non toxic and seriously luxurious. And that sleep spray. Oh my gosh. This is a game changer. It is such a nice item to have in your guest bathroom this holiday season. One spritz and I am out like a light. No matter how much my new obsessed brain is narrating the world. Here's the best part. Primally Pure makes holiday gifting simple, beautiful bundles. Toxin free. Female founded and ready to wrap. Skip the chaotic holiday shopping. These are products that people actually want and actually use. Cozy, clean, intentional, long lasting. Go to primally pure.com use code Alex Clark and you'll get 15 off. That's primally pure.com use code ALEX CLARK and get 15 off their limited holiday line. So I'm treat on the left. Left says that we are gutting cancer research. You know, what do you say about that? Is the Trump admin taking money away from cancer research?
- [39:35]
Cali Means
The Trump administration is steering more money to foundational research about why we're getting sick and focusing the entire academic community on that question more than any administration history. The NIH budget is still $50 billion. Congress hasn't changed that. There's a total revamp of that. I feel like the criticism of Maha, right. It's almost like this. These essays were written before Bobby Kennedy took over. And I want to make this really clear. If Secretary Kennedy, President Trump were executing perfectly, perfectly on the Maha agenda, there'd be the same amount of attacks. It is, it is guaranteed that there will be unrelenting delegitimization of what's happening because there's so many interests at threat. So the essays are already written. It's just like, let's find like the, the bullet points and the fact that their top bullet points right now is that a sip took the COVID vaccine off the schedule when everyone, already 85% of healthcare workers were going to say.
- [40:39]
Alex Clark
People can get it if they want.
- [40:41]
Cali Means
That's literally bullet point number one of criticism.
- [40:44]
Casey Means
So if that's the strongest bullet point of why Bobby Kennedy is killing people, we're winning.
- [40:49]
Cali Means
Bullet point number two is this vague.
- [40:51]
Casey Means
Assault on cancer research. Cancer research has been an unmitigated failure to re ashamed themselves. The lack of humility from the medical system which spends $300 billion a year on cancer care as cancer rates go up. Richard Nixon 50 years ago said that the war on cancer has begun and we're going to solve cancer in five years. It's been the costliest and deadliest war ever launched. We're 50 years after that and we have the record high rates of cancer today ever. The United States as a society in 2025 has the highest rates of adult and pediatric cancer of any society in the history of human civilization today. Now people say, well, the death rates have gone down a little bit. Yes, Exactly. We spend $300 billion not to cure it. None of that research is going to actually cure and prevent. It's going to slightly ameliorate. It's all about management. And yes, we're taking a hard look at how we do cancer rate. But just as a factual statement, as a factual statement, research has not been cut. That talking point is based on some grants being pulled. 19% of NIH grants went to DEI. 19%. I cannot express how weaponized these, these cultural issues are used to basically protect the existing system. We've moved some grants, but show me the evidence of cuts.
- [42:15]
Alex Clark
What do you think of President Trump's deals with the pharmaceutical industry to, you know, bring jobs here, take your manufacturing jobs to the United States, and then I'm going to give you a break on tariffs. Like, is Trump kind of going back on his word with working with Big Pharma?
- [42:28]
Casey Means
Oh, no, no.
- [42:29]
Cali Means
The bringing the pharmaceutical companies the table is should be supported by every single Maha voter. The pharmaceutical lobbying group had an emergency meeting two weeks ago because they are so destabilized and caught off guard because President Trump is negotiating one by one with each pharmaceutical company and bringing them each into the Oval Office, cutting deals on pharmaceutical pricing. These deals are primarily around pharmaceutical pricing right now for many leading drugs. The pharmaceutical companies, when they make the drugs here, they charge Americans 10 times more than Europe. So with the mob perspective, right, it's not. It's not ban all pesticides, ban all drugs. It's. We need really strong critical thinking on these things and really strong incentives that we have whole, healthy food and that we have therapeutics where there's unmitigated patient consent, informed consent, patient choice, medical freedom. It's not to abolish the entire pharmaceutical industry. There are drugs, many people watching, strong Maha supporters take, take or their children take. Those Drugs are often 10 times more.
- [43:34]
Casey Means
Expensive than they are in Europe, which.
- [43:36]
Cali Means
President Trump was outraged by.
- [43:38]
Casey Means
And this has been talked about for decades. People on the far left, from Bernie Sanders to people on the far right, have been talking about us getting ripped off from drug pricing for the past two decades. And President Trump said, enough with this bs. Enough with all these advisors telling me how it's going to change just a.
- [43:55]
Cali Means
Little bit or we can't do anything.
- [43:56]
Casey Means
He started negotiating with individual companies, and he's brought Pfizer in, he's brought other major companies in, and it's dramatically lowering drug prices. So this is something that's a strong use of power against the pharmaceutical industry. This is something where by next year, people are going to see dramatically lower costs for drugs and these drugs that the U.S. taxpayer, you know, is really funded. You know, we're not going to be ripped off on the back end. The United States right now is 4% of the world's population and produces 75% of worldwide pharmaceutical profits. It's crazy. 75% of worldwide profits for the pharmaceutical industry. So President Trump felt very strongly about that. He marshaled Dr. Oz and Secretary Kennedy to negotiate. And I'll tell you, I'll just say this right now. President Trump led that negotiating strategy. It was unbelievable. So I think picking apart the, you know, company by company to get prices lower, it's a strong show of power. It's a strong. It's not something they like.
- [44:59]
Alex Clark
So President Trump just made a huge announcement with Bobby Kennedy about ivf. What I am concerned about with this move is that again, we are prescribing a band aid to a rising infertility crisis in women from pharma and not looking into the root cause of what is causing infertility. That is my concern with just telling women we're going to make it just easier for you to get ivf. And instead of, you know, supporting something like naprotechnology, which is getting to the root cause of infertility. What do you have to say about that?
- [45:27]
Cali Means
I agree. We have a spiritual crisis in this country with fertility. It's a metabolic issue. I think the question, which Charlie hit on all the time, of why we're choosing not to have kids is a much deeper cultural, spiritual issue. I think this administration is scratching those questions and opening those questions harder and more aggressively than we could have ever imagined. And I, I get. I would see that announcement as one important pillar in an overarching strategy where it's unrelenting action.
- [46:01]
Alex Clark
So you're crisis going on.
- [46:03]
Casey Means
Well, even. Even in the speech, even in his.
- [46:05]
Cali Means
Speech, Marty McCary, RFK, Heidi Overton, who is at the White House, talked about.
- [46:10]
Casey Means
How this is one part of a overarching strategy, you know, to. Absolutely. You know, if there's a certain line where a woman chooses that she needs this, it's going to be more affordable. But this is a much, much larger strategy. Let me just say this. Let me just go to, like, next year, November voting. Next year, we are going to have a tidal wave of activity to improve school lunches, to reduce cell phone usage. Right. To get more physically active. I think there's a spiritual awakening, thanks to Charlie in the country. I mean, there's so much disruption happening. There's so many conversations, there's so many policies happening on all the areas that impact our metabolic health, impact, potentially fertility. In addition to these cultural questions, I think we're having, you know, really robust conversations around religion, around feminism, around really complex topics. That, to me is like, what I see at the White House. Like, like, there, there's conversations and there's things happening that are much wider than even our understanding. But, but, but there's a. There's an encouragement to be having these conversations. So that IVF announcement, it was actually said this is one part of a much larger strategy, and that is for women, you know, who are getting ripped off at the end of that fertility journey when they feel like they need that. And I think that's really important.
- [47:22]
Alex Clark
RFK is being called a dangerous quack for saying that girls as young as five and six are getting puberty. Is he wrong?
- [47:29]
Casey Means
The New York Times had a front page article about this saying it was a major issue and nobody knows why. I can't think of a more blaring warning sign that for many children, puberty is happening five to six years younger and five to six year olds. According to the New York Times and Harvard and other places, the researchers are now hitting puberty. It's pronounced happening in the United States versus other countries. In the United States, our hormones are under unrelenting assault from almost the first day of life. And this is where the nuanced, complicated conversation comes in. Quite frankly, you know, we just have to accept reality. But why are hormones being disrupted? Well, it's because of our food, obviously. It's because of light, it's because of our cell phones. It's because of chronic stress. You know, it's because of a whole host of issues.
- [48:15]
Alex Clark
Plastic, chemicals.
- [48:16]
Cali Means
Right, Right.
- [48:17]
Casey Means
You probably have no plastic. But most people watching probably wouldn't want to ban all plastic. They wouldn't want to ban their cell phones. Right. It's not about that. But this is a very complex conversation. And for Bobby Kennedy to talk about this blaring warning sign and then be castigated by the medical elite for talking about this, this, this really dramatic and horrifying situation that really is the tip of the iceberg of much wider things happening. It just shows you what we're dealing with.
- [48:42]
Alex Clark
I just wonder what the wider implications could be of that. You know, girls starting puberty so early, if that could affect their fertility years later, who knows? Is the White House looking into this at all?
- [48:52]
Cali Means
The NIH is being steered to ask all of these questions, okay? Secretary Kennedy never, ever says what the answer should be or. Or really wants to influence what they. He wants to open up wider questions about why girls are hitting puberty so much earlier, about the impact of microplastics, which is specifically cited as a research priority in the MAHA report. The MAHA strategy document outlines about 40 different research areas for the NIH. They're going to shift that $50 billion of funding towards microplastics are on there. We need to understand these issues. I And I think, you know, we all know high level, where this answer gets to. We need, we need to understand these external factors that are impacting our health, impacting our fertility, impacting our mental health. And we need to have a real conversation, you know, with the $5 trillion we spend a year on, on healthcare, how we can ameliorate and reduce these.
- [49:45]
Casey Means
Exposures and, and get back to basics.
- [49:48]
Cali Means
And I, I think this conversation we're.
- [49:49]
Casey Means
Having about getting back to basics and.
- [49:51]
Cali Means
Realizing and respecting these external factors that are impacting our happiness and health is vital, particularly in the next 10 years, as there will inevitably be a lot of technological change. We've got to get back to basics.
- [50:00]
Alex Clark
At the same time, another really alarming stat is that men's testosterone rates are plummeting. What can you share about what Maha is doing in terms of research here?
- [50:09]
Cali Means
Testosterone and fertility are a top focus.
- [50:12]
Casey Means
Of the nih, according to an official White House document.
- [50:15]
Cali Means
There's a lot being looked into that.
- [50:17]
Alex Clark
What do you think is causing that? Just you personally?
- [50:19]
Casey Means
There's so much of a long tail. This is the problem right now. The scientific industry, as I call it, has convinced us things are really complicated. And there is a complicated long tail. If your child has a rare disease, I pray to God that there's funding for researchers figuring that out. And it's very complicated on that long tail. If there's a complicated surgical technique, but 90% of costs in the medical system are lifestyle chronic conditions, there's a huge base of things that I don't think are complicated. I think that's the battle that Secretary Kennedy and the Trump administration are really fighting right now for the preponderance of issues. It's not complicated. It's eating whole food. It is getting more sunlight, which dramatically impacts our hormones. It's being more active, it's managing chronic stress, prayer, meditation, getting off your cell phone. These simple factors that have changed so dramatically in the past 30 years. I mean, just, just this is what we do. You know, we talk about this high level at the White House, right? Just look at differences between us and other countries and look at changes over the past 30 years. There's so many pronounced differences from the vaccine schedule to our food, to our chronic stress and cell phone usage, to our sleep, which is two hours less than it was 100 years ago. Right. And dramatically different than European countries. There's just differences. Things have changed so quickly on simple things. Our body is a complex, you know, machine will never fully understand. And these, you know, factors that are obviously existential to its continued functioning and thriving have been dramatically changed. Like, that's what it is. I mean, that's what Casey and I got in this fight for. That's what the book was about, good energy. And then people attack the book and attack Bobby and say, well, they're just dumbing it down. You know, it's much more nuanced. It's much more complicated. Yes, on the long tail, but really, it's not like if we can have a national effort to get kids outside more. 40% of schools don't even require recess right now. That's another initiative we're really pushing on. Right. It's just like if we can get.
- [52:27]
Cali Means
Back to basics, we are going to transform this country. And there is so much, so much resistance to that conversation.
- [52:36]
Alex Clark
You have a company, TruMed, which allows consumers to use their HSA and FSA dollars towards health and wellness products and services. How do you respond to concerns that your role in government is indirectly promoting true med and that your policy advocacy might actually benefit your private business?
- [52:53]
Cali Means
So my mom died. I was inspired by my sister and her leaving the medical system. And right after my mom died, where we saw the horrors of the medical system, I said, with Casey, I'm going to devote my life to this issue. I poured myself into helping her write a book. I started a company asking, how can we actually incentivize exercise and healthy food? And I started talking and I started advocating where this magical dynamics happened, where Bobby Kennedy and President Trump and wider culture started talking about these issues we talked about.
- [53:32]
Casey Means
I met you and I met so many other people.
- [53:33]
Cali Means
And this, I think you'd agree, this, like, magical coalescing happened, where we all.
- [53:39]
Casey Means
Were on the same page and just thousands and thousands of people started chipping away at this. So that led to me being asked to go to the White House as.
- [53:48]
Cali Means
A special government employee.
- [53:49]
Casey Means
Like what Elon did. And I dropped everything, left my family, you know, in Arizona and went to D.C. and did that. So I think what happens is when you are out there, people try to find an angle. It's every tweet I put, they say I'm part of Big Wellness and that I'm a supplement salesman. And I do think that attack is kind of funny. Right. It's beware of the specter of Big Wellness, which includes, by the way, grocery stores and gyms. And there's no policies I'm pushing on.
- [54:20]
Cali Means
Right.
- [54:20]
Casey Means
That impact the company. I mean, the company operates under existing law, but I'll say I'm proud to be part of Big Wellness. I think Big Wellness needs a seat at the table. I think we need people that believe in exercise, people that believe in vitamin D supplementation, people that believe in healthy food. Regenerative farmers. There's New York Times articles attacking Secretary Kennedy for consulting with Mark Hyman. Regenerative farmers, you know, people that are entrepreneurs and successful business people in wellness. We know a lot of these people. And it's a complicated industry. And I'm not defending the industry in a blanket way, but I don't think a person exercising and experimenting with supplementation and sunlight and following your podcast, I'd love to see a study of the cohort of those people and their mental health and physical health versus an average American.
- [55:04]
Alex Clark
Me too.
- [55:05]
Cali Means
I think those people are on a much better track. I, I, I, I'd bet anything on that. I think it's really important. I'll tell you, pharmaceutical companies and others are still well represented in Washington D.C. but the fact that people like Mark Hyman and these people from Big Wellness who believe in exercise, sunlight supplementation and healthy food, the fact that they're being heard out because they don't have a big lobbyist behind them.
- [55:26]
Alex Clark
Yep.
- [55:26]
Cali Means
But what they have now is the voters. We are going to do billions of dollars of research on food is medicine and how, you know, regenerative, you know, whole food, you know, for diabetic populations.
- [55:39]
Casey Means
On Medicaid, you know, might be better.
- [55:41]
Cali Means
Than the drug route at some point. Right, right. We are gonna do, we are gonna do so much research on the root cause. So I think that's really a good thing.
- [55:54]
Alex Clark
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- [58:12]
Cali Means
So the Surgeon General is a spokesperson for health priorities in the country. And it's interesting, you know, Casey's got attacked. I've got attack.
- [58:24]
Casey Means
I. I really take a lot of lessons from Secretary Kennedy and President Trump. I mean, I talked to Casey about the attacks and she said she's surprised.
- [58:33]
Cali Means
There are not more.
- [58:34]
Casey Means
I mean, what we are talking about is radical to entrenched industries. It's thermodynamics. If there are ideas being put out there and a political coalition being put together that disrupts trillions of dollars of interest. It's what I used to do. It's what my original career was working for pharma. You find angles and you attack that. Lobbies aren't able to get to President Trump. President Trump's not listening to them. So they've got to create this controversy. The Surgeon general is, as a spokesperson, what they're attacking her for is that she's not a slave to the existing medical system and that she's too simplistic. And I personally believe that what we need in this country is very simple public health messaging. We need to encourage moms and give them that backbone to ask their pediatrician questions, to give their kids whole food to think about the metabolic inputs to their children's sunlight, exercise, things like that.
- [59:30]
Alex Clark
So does the Surgeon General come up with PSAs that like run on TV and stuff?
- [59:34]
Cali Means
Yeah, I mean, the most famous contribution for the Surgeon General was the smoking report in the 1980s. And you know, it's a very similar thing to food where there was huge, you know, medical industry opposition to any regulation cigarettes. They said it was healthy, similar financial dynamics. And the Surgeon General was able to really conduct research with the NIH and, and put a, you know, really dramatic public health warning out there. And it's interesting, right, because today you don't have cigarettes banned. But there was information put out there.
- [60:05]
Alex Clark
It changed the culture.
- [60:06]
Cali Means
Changed the culture. And I think it was like, you know, 70 of people smoked and now it's much lower. I, I think it's kind of a similar trajectory. We need an ultra processed food and I honestly think that the industry's okay with that, quite frankly. I've talked to a lot of people.
- [60:18]
Casey Means
In the food industry.
- [60:18]
Cali Means
They know we have a problem. And I hate to use the word incremental, but if we incrementally shift our diet through public health messaging and shift the markets over the next 10 years, we're in a dramatically different place in 10 years. And I, I think Casey has the opportunity to do that along the issues that are, you know, what she's talked about and, and, and what's in her book. And I think particularly for a moment right now, you know, the other thing Casey's been attacked on is kind of her background, I guess. I mean, Casey is the most extraordinary human being I've ever met. She's, she has excelled in every single thing she's ever done. President of her Stanford class, top Stanford med school. She was absolutely crushing it in residency. These reporters are saying, oh, she, she.
- [61:02]
Casey Means
Left for anxiety or whatever. She has emails from her attending surgeons saying that she was one of the best residents that they've ever seen in her career. Casey has a degree of moral courage few people I've ever met. And she shocked me when she left the system. You know, then she started a successful company, wrote the best selling health book in the past couple years. I mean, everything she does and I think it comes from the fact that she is able to go against the grain and think for herself and think critically. And I think she's going to be horrified with all this BS that's infiltrated.
- [61:33]
Cali Means
The Surgeon General's office before.
- [61:34]
Casey Means
You know, the last surgeon general said that medical misinformation was the biggest public health threat to America, not diabetes.
- [61:40]
Alex Clark
I need people to be serious.
- [61:41]
Casey Means
I think she's going to drive simplicity. And I will say we have done more policy change in the past year than at any time in modern history. But the most important accomplishment of this administration is winning the argument, is changing the market. Where we cannot look at what the health industry is saying and really accept it anymore. That we have to change perception on an individual level and we have to continually just push on that argument. The things your listeners know and listen you talk about every day, that has not fully bled into mass society. We have to win this argument.
- [62:19]
Alex Clark
When is the confirmation hearing it?
- [62:22]
Casey Means
The shutdown's been problematic. It could. It could be in weeks. You know, it's. It's moving along. I mean, people are starting. This is another thing I've learned it. Government takes a lot of time. People are just starting, you know, recently that were nominated before the inauguration. So she's been having good meetings with senators and should be soon.
- [62:43]
Alex Clark
What are Trump and Bobby Kennedy's goals for MAHA year two?
- [62:46]
Cali Means
There's a couple elements to this. One thing we're very excited about is we are in touch with 30 governors right now. Thirty governors. And there's going to be an explosion of MAHA legislation going into next year. Along those lines. I talked about cell phones out of schools, physical activity, school lunches, medical freedom. That's really helpful. We really encourage that. It's. It's much harder for forces to combat 30 different states and the federal government. So we're really, really excited. So every single person listening. I can't express this enough. Get involved in your state bills.
- [63:21]
Casey Means
You've met with and testified at some of the states. I think in Arizona, who's been amazing.
- [63:27]
Cali Means
There'S real ability for change. And some of the best bills are actually literally from individual people in the.
- [63:33]
Casey Means
States going to their lawmakers and they'll.
- [63:35]
Cali Means
Take meetings and actually coming up with.
- [63:37]
Casey Means
New ideas that we didn't even have.
- [63:38]
Alex Clark
Anybody can test school lunch bills and stuff like that. Like you do not have to be credentialed or have a talk show or, or have a nutrition degree. Anyone can do it.
- [63:49]
Cali Means
And it makes a big difference.
- [63:50]
Casey Means
It moves these bills. Everyone thought these bills on Removing soda from snap. Texas the single most lobbied bill in the state of Texas last year was to put more transparency on food labels. The the food industry lobbied against it, flew their CEOs on private jets and the governor signed it because they said they got more positive calls than any other bill from moms. I cannot express strongly enough. When you see bills up for debate in your state legislature, testify, call your lawmaker, tell them you really support this. That's really important. The initiative I talked about, you know, front of pack food labeling, grass reform, where we're actually going to study what's in our food for the first time.
- [64:30]
Alex Clark
And GRASS stands for generally recognized estimate as safe foods and products.
- [64:34]
Casey Means
Front of pack food labeling Dietary guideline reform. We're going to have Secretary Kennedy out to implement those initiatives out on military bases, out at schools, recommending these basic things. I mean for all he's denigrated, all the denigration he receives from the media, what do you have actually happening? You have Secretary Kennedy focusing on mental health, healthier lunches, more physical activity. And then when you get to the pharmaceutical issues, I think we're going to be communicating more and showing the results of the true institutional change at fda, NIH and cms. The FDA is dramatically reforming, conflicts are getting out of there. We're actually asking hard questions about these drugs, doing real safety studies pre and post market. I think it's not as sexy. But you have real institutional reform being driven at the fda. You're going to start seeing next year the fruits of the research transformation that's happening at the nih, which I think is so important. You know that that research sounds kind of simple. How does food impact our health? How do microplastics impact our health?
- [65:37]
Cali Means
How does artificial light cell phones impact our mental health?
- [65:39]
Casey Means
I mean, we might assume some of the answers to this, but substantiating it in billions of dollars of scientific research with, in conjunction with the NIH and.
- [65:46]
Cali Means
Top academic institutions that is going to really change the culture of health, which.
- [65:50]
Casey Means
I think is a really important 10 year goal.
- [65:52]
Cali Means
And then, and what Dr. Oz is doing at CMS is it gets back.
- [65:55]
Casey Means
To what I talked about.
- [65:56]
Cali Means
The quality metrics for how we pay money out and care is based on how many drugs are taken.
- [66:02]
Casey Means
He's actually looking at foundation changing the.
- [66:06]
Cali Means
Quality metrics of where we spend $5 trillion of healthcare spending on actually people getting healthy.
- [66:13]
Casey Means
There's a lot of effort to figure out how, you know, that money at CMS can be taking on the entrenched interests and giving people more decision making with their doctors. So that's hard institutional reform work that is happening every day. But I think we'll be seeing much more fruits of that. But I would say to everyone watching, you know, when we get to the.
- [66:35]
Cali Means
Midterms, we will only scratch the surface again. It's that 40 year battle for abortion. But we've gotten a lot done. But what all I care about is that this coalition stays together. Because if we can keep doing this, imagine if the midterms are one and that voter coalition grows. That's what drives action, that's what changes culture. And if we can keep that coalition going for cycle after cycle after cycle, we might feel like it's incremental at times, but we will look back in 10 years and be in a totally transformed place from a policy perspective. But I think culturally, if you like what's happening, keep pushing. But the Republican Party is on the side of these issues. I, I can't explain the bravery that's being exhibited by President Trump to take on special interests is extraordinary.
- [67:28]
Alex Clark
So with midterms on the line, what do my listeners need to be calling lawmakers and saying next year I would.
- [67:35]
Cali Means
Strongly support state bills that you agree with and you know, work to advocate or recommend bills on areas you care about along all the spectrum of maha. Medical freedom, food, healthy kids, healthy schools, more transparency. I think when you see an acute issue, an acute issue.
- [67:59]
Casey Means
That you see.
- [68:00]
Cali Means
On Twitter or you're animated by that, you can call your member of Congress and let them know what you think as part of the MAHA army.
- [68:07]
Alex Clark
And the calling works.
- [68:08]
Cali Means
The calling really works. So this is my opinion, like, like.
- [68:12]
Casey Means
Large, like broad frustration, you know, Bobby's.
- [68:16]
Cali Means
Being co opted this that, you know.
- [68:18]
Casey Means
There'S a tendency on Twitter to be like, it's like existentially bad. If one thing goes wrong, I can promise you that things are going to go the way people don't want. And micro instances. Well, sure, I would argue in a way, you know, throwing your hands up when one thing happens that we don't fully agree with is, is somewhat, almost politically immature. There is massive complex conversations happening and interesting weighed that are fair interests. I mean we're talking about the entire US Healthcare system, the entire US Agriculture system. There's nobody that's fighting harder than Bobby Kennedy and President Trump. I, I don't think it's legitimate to say that Secretary Kennedy and President Trump aren't doing any other than fighting aggressively. What is helpful is calling your senator or congressman or state lawmaker about a specific issue. If you see Something that they're going to vote on that isn't aligned with Maha values. Yeah. Organized to barad them with calls and those really, really work. I think the unruly nature of the Maha coalition is a strength. It's passion. There's Pat and I. I don't think that should be tamped down. But if that's channeled to specific asks, I think it's, it's politically much more helpful to get things done.
- [69:29]
Alex Clark
My audience doesn't know this. Well, I haven't, I haven't told them on the show. At least I have on Instagram, but not on the show. You and I were very privileged to be asked to be in a documentary on big food that's coming out this Thanksgiving on Apple TV and Amazon Prime. It's called Breaking Big Food. There's a huge spotlight specifically on like the clean food and farming system in Arizona, which is cool. Which you and I are both Arizona residents. So can you talk about the documentary with the audience?
- [69:59]
Cali Means
I am so excited about this documentary. I mean, these are two folks, I think, who are inspired by your podcast, inspired by what's happening and wanted to just tell the story in Arizona particularly.
- [70:08]
Casey Means
It's amazing.
- [70:08]
Cali Means
I think we're, I think we might be the largest grower of fruits and vegetables. I think what we talked about today, it's about people who resonated with these large scale ideas and then drove change in their individual lives. And I think it's a great movie to watch with, with your kids or with your family.
- [70:24]
Casey Means
And I think it hits on that.
- [70:26]
Cali Means
Point that really I, I think was.
- [70:28]
Casey Means
The key point for me today and.
- [70:29]
Cali Means
A key point at the White House. The political process, as is only good.
- [70:33]
Casey Means
If it can inspire and open conversations on individual change. What people are eating, you know, what people are doing with their kids, where they're sending them to school, things like that. And this movie is really about individual empowerment and I was honored to be.
- [70:45]
Cali Means
A part of it.
- [70:46]
Casey Means
And I think storytelling and it gets to what we were talking about with Casey. I, I do think storytelling and continuing to bring people along on this journey is just so important.
- [70:55]
Alex Clark
Yeah. So Breaking Big Food this Thanksgiving, Amazon prime and Apple tv. And you can watch it and tag Callie and I as you're eating your mountain mashed potatoes or whatever. So where can people follow you on social media?
- [71:07]
Cali Means
I'm at Cali Means on Instagram and Twitter.
- [71:10]
Casey Means
Yeah.
- [71:10]
Alex Clark
If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would it be?
- [71:16]
Cali Means
Well, I've been thinking a lot About Charlie and how important he was to Maha. I was so struck at his service that there was no talk about specific policies or, you know, this bill should be changed. It was really about cultural and spiritual revival. And I saw this. But it was clear at that memorial that he saw politics as a way, as a platform really to open up a much larger conversation about spirituality and about culture and about family. I really see the same thing with, with, with, with, with Maha. Like the world is not going to change. It's not going to be written about in history books. You know, what we changed to Medicare.
- [72:04]
Casey Means
Part D. What's happening is a substantiation of a much larger conversation that I think is really tied to, to what.
- [72:09]
Cali Means
Charlie was trying to do.
- [72:10]
Casey Means
And Charlie, I think saw the spiritual nature, which almost can't be fully articulated of this Maha issue and of this new political coalition.
- [72:19]
Alex Clark
So summarized your remedy as well in a succ.
- [72:24]
Casey Means
I think a lot of the answers to our health crisis and what we're feeling with Maha are in the Bible. And I think, I think Charlie understood that.
- [72:32]
Alex Clark
What kinds of things did Charlie say to you about Maha behind the scenes when you go on his show?
- [72:36]
Casey Means
Charlie was extremely excited about the electoral implications of Maha. He saw from the first second how new voters could be brought into the Republican party fold. And, and I think he mixed the ruthless and clear eyed political strategy with the mission. And he realized that in order to get these mission based things done, which Maha obviously wants to do, and he was so aligned with, you have to drive votes. And he saw immediately how this energy on the Maha side could redraw the political map, which is also really what excited me and I think it's what's happening. But that political change is what drives the, the policy change. You have to keep those coalitions together.
- [73:25]
Alex Clark
And by the way, what's really cool is that in that breaking food documentary, you see scenes of Cali and our friend Vonnie the food babe and, and Paul Saladino hosting a Maha panel at Turning Points America Fest last year, which, you know, Charlie obviously greenlit. So that's pretty cool that Turning Point gets a spotlight in this documentary. So it's just really special. You should support it, you should stream it. Thank you Cie, for coming on culture apothecary. Thank you. I hate having Cali as a guest on this show because I want to talk to him for like 8 hours long and I never have enough time ever. I think the first time we talked that episode was like two and a half hours. This one we had to crunch into an hour because he's a busy guy now working for President Trump and Bobby, he's flying all around, had to immediately get on another flight. So I'm just happy that we got to have an hour with him and have him back back since we've rebranded to Culture Apothecary. So make sure you leave that five star review and support Cali and me and tell people why Culture Apothecary is the best podcast in health and wellness. I might be a little biased, but also it is we're on a mission to heal a sick culture twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern, where New guests bring a unique remedy to do just that. Subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube. Find me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark and the show at Culture Apothecary. By the way, thank you so much. The show just hit over 400,000 followers on Instagram. That's like unheard of for a podcast, so pretty freaking cool. We do share a lot of extra content on there, not just clips of the episodes. You can find merch for the show@tpusa, merch.com and code Alex Clark will get you 10% off. My name is Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.