← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
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- [00:00]
A
Okay, but when you say mill your own flour, that sounds really hard and intimidating. And if I'm a busy mom or I've got multiple kids, I don't have time to mill my own flour.
- [00:09]
B
Oh, it takes seconds. You know, we have the right tools to do our yard work. We have the right tools to vacuum our carpet. We have the right tools to wash our clothes. We're not out there hand washing with a washboard anymore. I want to help people find food freedom. And people are finding just that. They don't just tolerate the bread. They're getting healed. So many people say, I can't eat bread. I'm like, I agree, the bread in the store is making you sick, but not real bread. If we go back to making it the way God intended.
- [00:59]
A
Bread is one of the most celebrated foods in human history. It's woven throughout scripture, shared around family tables for thousands of years, and has sustained entire civilizations. So why is it that today so many people feel like they can't eat it? Why does a food that nourished generation after generation now leave so many people feeling bloated, inflamed, sluggish, and convinced they're better off avoiding it altogether? Maybe the problem isn't bread. Maybe it's what we've done to it. My guest today is Culture Apothecary fan favorite Sue Becker, food scientist, author, educator, co owner of the Breadbeckers and founder of Real Bread Outreach. Her first interview in March of 2025 on this show went completely viral and sold out flour mills all over the country for months. For more than 34 years, sue has researched the connection between processed foods, especially modern flour, and the chronic health issues affecting millions of Americans. In this episode, sue is here to answer all of your questions and how something as simple as changing your flower has transformed the health of countless families. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture Apothecary on Spotify. If you're happy that sue is back, make sure you leave that five star review for us. Please welcome for a second time Sue Becker to Culture Apothecary. Is the saying, the wider the bread, the faster you're dead. True?
- [02:20]
B
Yes, I think so. It's dead. It's dead flour. It has no real nutritional value, and what they try to put back in is all synthetic. Whole grains is one of the most nutrient dense foods God's given us. But they strip away the bran, the germ, and leave just the protein and starch for the white flour and then try to fix it, and they don't Fix it. Very well.
- [02:43]
A
What exactly is wrong with the bread in America? And why is it the culprit for why almost everybody is sick?
- [02:48]
B
Like I was saying earlier, with the bran, that's loaded with vitamins, loaded with minerals, loaded with fiber. And then the germ is the life of the plant, life of the seed. It's loaded with vitamins and minerals as well, but vitamin E and essential fatty acids. So when they strip that away, white flour is only, for all practical purposes, protein and starch. God never intended us to eat it without all the vitamins and minerals and even more importantly, the fiber. That's a nutrient that I talk about a lot. And a lot of people don't think of it as nutrient. They just go, fiber, fiber, fiber. You know, what is it? It's a carbohydrate that can't be digested through your normal digestive system, so it's dumped over in your colon, and it's your cleaner upper. It's your get rid of the trash nutrient. I guess you can say that. And Dr. Dennis Burkett was a medical missionary back in the early 1900s, mid-1900s, and he is the one that put fiber on the map. Up until that point, it was thought to have no real value except to just make you eliminate, you know, regulate your bowels. But he discovered that it was at the root of. Of most of the common diseases that plague Americans. You know, constipation, irritable bowel, heart disease, cancer. He even attributed it to that. With our lack of fiber. You don't see that in other countries that eat lots of real whole foods and fruits and fresh fruits and vegetables. We are not digesting that bread very well because it's stripped of all the nutrients to help us do that. So it's causing stomach pain when you're, you know, you can't digest something. And, yeah, it's just causing lots of problems for people. You know, so many people say, I can't eat bread. I'm like, I agree, the bread in the store is making you sick, but not real bread. If we go back to making it the way God intended, it'll change your life.
- [04:29]
A
Did American bread always make people sick?
- [04:32]
B
No. Prior to the 1900s, the bread consumed in this country was made at home. For the most part, people had the capacity to mill their own grain at home or communities. I love bread. As a communal type, food communities were built up around the local miller. Once water power, animal power was discovered, then they created these bigger mills, like grist mills and things like that that some people Go visit today. So communities were built up around that because they could mill big, larger volumes of flour, but it was still freshly milled. They didn't strip anything away. And so people would go and buy their flour on a regular basis in smaller quantities, what they could use over time. A lot of people laugh and say, well, 25 pounds, you know, is a lot of flour. 50 pounds. They had large families, they were a lot of times baking for farm hands, and they were making all of their own bread. So, yeah, Prior to the 1900s, America was one of the healthiest nations in the world. And you can look at it statistically when the steel roller mills came on the scene that sifted the bran and germ away from the flour, producing this massive volumes of white flour, stripping it of all of its nutritional value, all of its fiber. Those local millers went out of business. And everyone loved the white bread because it was fluffier. And every woman in America goes, hallelujah, I don't have to mill my own flour anymore. You know, I remember years ago, Brad's grandfather moved in with us, and I was milling my flour with my electric grain mill, you know, in my kitchen, and he was sitting over in the recliner, did like this. He goes, I milled a lot of corn in my day, you know, so hallelujah, we don't have to do this anymore. Someone's going to make this food for us. And the bread was fluffier and whiter. And you can look at the statistics of the health of America when those steel rolling mills came on the scene in the early 1900s, by 1910, local millers, they, they had displaced the local millers. White bread, white food, you know, white flour was food for everybody. You can look at the statistics of America's health and see it decline. 1900, we were the healthiest, one of the healthiest nations in the world. By 1920, we had dropped to like 78, 1960, you know, 80 something. 2,093 out of a hundred countries surveyed. That's pretty alarming. And bread was one of the first foods to be altered, to be commercially processed and taken out of the home.
- [06:57]
A
So then what is the solution? What are we supposed to do? If people want to eat bread, but it's making them sick or it's making them fat or, or they're, you know, feeling like, oh, I have to be gluten free.
- [07:06]
B
Can I say it real bluntly? You need to buy a grain mill. I'm sorry, you can't get real bread in the regular grocery store. You Might find some independent bakeries now because people are realizing that, hey, this is a real thing. We need to be milling our own flour, putting all the components of the wheat back in. But for the day in and day out, get a grain mill. Mill your own flour at home. Like I said, prior the 1900s, that's the way it was done. And we were one of the healthiest countries in the world. And in the scriptures, I find bread verses everywhere. But to me, Deuteronomy 24:6 is one of the most sobering. And it says, in those days there was a law. God had laws for how to treat people, you know, and he goes, when you, when you borrow something from someone, you were to give them a pledge that, hey, I'm going to return what I borrowed from you or I'm going to pay you back. So you gave them something of value for them to keep until you paid them back. And In God's Deuteronomy 24:6, it says this. Do not take a man's upper millstone as a pledge, for you would be taking his life. Wow, that's pretty amazing that God equates not Sue Becker. God equates the ability to mill your own grain, to make your own bread, with your life, with your health. Jesus compared himself to bread, and he said, I am the real bread of life. He who comes to me what shall be satisfied. And that's a pretty amazing verse. I know exactly where I was when I saw that verse for the first time. When it spoke to me the way I knew God was speaking to me. And it was pretty revealing.
- [08:48]
A
Okay, but when you say mill your own flour, that sounds really hard and intimidating. And if I'm a busy mom or I've got multiple kids, it's like, I don't have time to mill my own flour.
- [08:57]
B
Oh, it takes seconds. I'm not talking a hand mill anymore. We have wonderful thing called electricity now. So we have the, the fastest, easiest grain mill. The wonder mill is what I use. I love it. It's clean. You pour your grain in and in 30 seconds or less you have a pound of flour, which is about six cups. That's more than enough to make your pancakes, make your bread, and get the right tools. You know, we have the right tools to do our yard work. We have the right, right tools to vacuum our carpet. You know, we have the right tools to wash our clothes. We're not out there hand washing with a washboard anymore. So get the right tools. A grain mill is fast and easy. I have a big mixer when my kids were at home, I mixer cuz I would make six loaves of bread at a time or a bread machine for a busy person. That takes less than five minutes to mill your flour, dump all the ingredients in, hit a start button and come back to a baked loaf of bread. Everybody's got time for that. How do you want to spend your time going to the doctor all the time doing something else or eating and being satisfied.
- [09:55]
A
What source of ailments have people cured by milling their own flour and then baking their own bread?
- [10:00]
B
Yeah, now I have to be careful because people say, oh this bread is not a miracle cure. But when you provide your body with all the nutrients, almost all of the nutrients it needs, then your body can begin to heal itself. We've seen people totally heal, you know, constipation, of course, that's fiber. What do you want to do? Eat a piece of bread or take something like. Exactly. I'd rather eat the bread. One of the first testimonies that came outside of my home was a lady called me one morning, said my cholesterol dropped 85 points and I know it was the bread. I've been to three different doctors, three years trying to get this down. I was like, okay. So I pull out my biochemistry books and I'm like, what's in this bread that would do it? Every nutrient there. Lecithin, inositol, choline, vitamin B6, vitamin E, it's all there. And the scriptures tell us in Psalm 104, God gave bread man to strengthen and nourish the heart. Dr. Wilfred Shute, another doctor that I studied, he used vitamin E to treat heart disease. No doctors would listen to him, but he, not too many anyway. But he was treating it successfully. And he says he didn't write books on milling your own flour, but when you read his works, he says when bread started being fractured, bran and germ being removed, he said America lost one of the most potent anti clotting agents that was in our food and that's vitamin E. Iron. Oh, iron deficient anemia. So many people, I mean we've had people that were on iron transfusions which is very painful to get in in a matter of months. One of my favorite and her story is on my podcast who's Healthy Minutes. This one I, I'm going to choke up because it was so, it was so hard to listen to. Her baby was born with a gen disease, brittle bone disease. They found out in the womb the baby had broken bones in the womb and they discovered it and so she had to have a C section. And even during that broke ribs, they could only hold their little newborn on a pillow so it wouldn't break her bones. She had to have metal rods put in her legs so her femur wouldn't more easily break. The first three years of that little child's life, 30 bone breaks.
- [12:09]
A
Oh, my word.
- [12:10]
B
Now the mom reached out to me in one year of freshly milled flour, zero bone breaks. What do you do with that? Did it reverse her genetic disorder? No. But you know what they told that mom when they put those metal rods in her femur? They said, we'll have to. These will probably last her for five years because she's not going to grow or probably even be able to walk. Maybe they're having to change those rods now because that child is growing. She's walking. She says she's. She's running. Leading an almost normal life. That's pretty amazing. I want to help people find food freedom. And we're finding that people are finding just that when they think they have to be gluten free and they discover that they really don't, that it is the white bread, the processed flour products in the store that is making them intolerant and in sensitive and, you know, horrible painful stomach and digestion and chronic horrible diarrhea and irritable bowel laying down villi, even they say, oh, we've even had biopsies. And they're discovering that even though wheat has those gluten forming proteins, they can eat it if it's freshly milled with all the fiber and the nutrients to help them digest it correctly. And they're finding healing. They don't just tolerate the bread. They're getting healed. And you know, Alex, since our last podcast, oh, gosh, people come from all over the country and they would say, I you on that podcast. Gluten's not the enemy, you know, and this bread has saved my life. And one day, I don't always go to our store. You know, I'm not always there because I'm out doing things like this. But anyway, I was walking through the store and she heard my voice. This lady, older lady from Ohio, she grabbed my hand. She goes, you're Sue Becker. And I said, yes. Tears started coming down her face. And she said, I drove from Ohio just to come to your store. This bread saved my life. She said, I was down to seven foods was all I could eat.
- [14:08]
A
Oh, my God, yes.
- [14:09]
B
Because that when you go, when you eliminate a whole food group, that Jesus compares himself to something's wrong with that picture. Real whole grains are healing to the body. And when you eliminate that and you eliminate fiber that's going to be dumped into your colon. That feeds that good healthy microbiome that's there. It changes your gut microbiome. The next thing you know, and they're, they're critical for helping you digest your foods, get rid of the toxins. The more toxic buildup we have, the more sensitive we come to all different kinds of foods. And so it changes that. And she. And so then the next thing you know, you can't have dairy, you can't have eggs, you can't have this, you can't. You're reacting to this and this and this and this. And people are finding food freedom because they're healing their gut. And that's not the only testimony. Another lady stood up our class and she said, I was down to eight foods. Another, and now I can eat because the bread is cleaning their body out, getting rid of toxic buildup. Now they're not overreacting to all kinds of things and not just food, you know, other sensitivities as well. So I, I love what I do because we're helping people find food freedom.
- [15:27]
A
Have you noticed this Gen Z trend where guys wear one dangly earring, A guy just has one mysterious little pirate accessories. You'll see a guy ordering an ice matcha latte and he's got the single earring gently swaying like he just returned from a voyage across the Atlantic. I always want to ask them, you know, if you're that committed to aesthetics, are you at least committed to clean personal care products? Because a lot of the stuff people use every day, deodorant, toothpaste, floss, it's full of weird ingredients that you probably wouldn't voluntarily rub on your body if you knew what they were. So I like zebra. They make really clean everyday essentials that really work. Their deodorant is aluminum free, paraben free, fragrance free. It goes on clear, it doesn't go on chunky. It holds up in real life heat. I live in Arizona, so I'm basically like the ultimate guinea pig for that. Plus, they offer two formulas, with or without baking soda for sensitive skin. Their floss is made from real silk with peppermint oil and xylitol, not polyester like most floss, meaning you're not dragging microplastics across your gums. And their toothpaste tablets are simple chew brush done. No messy powders, no junk ingredients. So whether you wear one dangly earring, Simon or none. At least upgrade your daily routine. Go to yayzebra.com use code Alex for 10 off your order. That's yay zebra.com code Alex for 10 off. Growing up, my dream was always to be a horse dentist. Yeah, I thought I'd spend my days poking around giant horse mouths. Maybe invent some equine braces. That dream stupid. I have a new dream. A dream to suffocate under 5 trillion pounds of masa chips. Not stupid. Masa chips are made from real masa stone ground. Authentic, perfectly crisp, totally organic. And they're fried in grass fed beef tallow. People, people. Grass fed animal fat. Grass fed tallow is nutrient dense. It's full of healthy fats and amazing for your brain, your energy and your soul. It's basically like giving yourselves a spa day. While they crunch, every chip hits like perfection.
- [17:13]
B
Corn.
- [17:14]
A
Organic texture. Crunchy enough to make you question why you ever ate vending machine chips in your life. Salt. Real ingredients. Transparent, wholesome and honest. This is the snack that your ancestors would approve of if they weren't already dead. Go to masachips.com use code real Alex Clark for 25 off. Your first purchase or buy in store at any sprouts nationwide. That's masachips.com code real Alex Clark for 25 off or grab them at sprouts. You ever been on a first date with someone and they hit you with so did you vote? And you have that moment where you're like, okay, wait, do I lie? Do I cry? Do I explain that there was a typo on my voter registration and I didn't find out until it was too late? Because that's the reality. Most people think they're registered. They assume everything is fine. Meanwhile, like one in four people either aren't registered to vote or aren't even sure. And you don't realize it till you're standing there looking like you just failed a citizenship test test? You move, you change your name, you haven't voted in a while, or there's just some random error. So if you want to make sure that you're registered to vote, go to real Alex Clark.com vote. You can check your registration in like 30 seconds from your phone. Real AlexClark.com vote. It walks you through everything. Just handle it now so you're not explaining typos on the first date. People have been able to heal warts on their kids.
- [18:25]
B
Oh yes. I don't get time to tell my wart story so much. And people laugh at me on that one. But I knew it was the so way back when I was a young girl, I didn't have normal monthly cycles. First cycle, 13, the next one, 11th grade. And then in college they'd come whenever they want. So when I got married and then wanted to have children, I'm like, well, this isn't good because if you're not having that, you're not ovulating anyway. So I started studying and I learned, pulled out my biochemistry books and I learned about vitamin E. Vitamin E is very critically important for the female's reproductive cycle and system. So I started taking vitamin E in short amount of time. I started having regular cycles, short amount of time, I get pregnant, I keep taking my vitamin E. I have my second child, my third child. Anyway, so I was taking vitamin E. But in my studies of vitamin E, I learned that vitamin E protects the cell membrane of every cell in your body. Every cell in your body. And I think that's one reason wheat is the richest food source of vitamin E. And I think that's one reason we hear so many testimonies because it protects, protects every cell in your body. And for you, it might be your cells in your muscles or your eyes or your iron, your red blood cells, whatever. And what that does is when, if your cell membrane is compromised, it's more susceptible to a viral invasion. Viral viruses can't reproduce on their own. They have to invade your cells and use your genetic material to reproduce. So when, during my studies of all of that, I was just trying to figure out how to have normal cycles in babies, I remember to this day seeing a sentence on the page of vitamin E has been known to get rid of warts because it helps. Warts are a virus, okay? So if our cell membrane is compromised, we're more susceptible to this invasion of a virus that causes warts. When my first child, she was three, she started getting warts. I'd never seen this. So I take her to the doctor, he's like, oh, they're virus, they'll run their course, they'll go away. So I'm like, okay, three years go by, two years go by, she's five years old, they're all over her, they haven't gone away. And I'm like, that's a little longer course than I wanted. So I take her to the doctor, he sends me to a specialist. The specialist is going to do all this acid. We're going to drop on there to get rid of the warts, which I hope people understand when you do that, you're killing the live Skin that's keeping that wart attached to your body. You're not doing anything for the virus anyway. So it was a long, horrible process of taking her back and forth. And then they were going to put her asleep, cut them all off. And I'm like, you know what? No, we're not doing this. On the way home that day I remember, I mean, it was like the Lord just showed me the sentence in the book. Vitamin E has been known to get rid of words. So I go home and I start giving my daughter vitamin E. And my second child, he had started getting warts too, start giving them both vitamin E and they're gone in three weeks from vitamin E. And I just spent months back and forth to the doctor. Traumatic experience. So my third child is born. For whatever reason at three, he starts getting warts. And I'm like, okay, I know what to do. Give him vitamin E. He couldn't swallow the capsule. I mean, we're talking a tiny little gelatinous capsule he couldn't swallow. I'm like, you know what? Just forget it. Whatever. Because he was three and I had two younger siblings. He had two younger siblings. I had three babies in three years. Woo. So warts weren't a big deal. So at 5, the mill comes in our home, richest food source of vitamin E there is. One month into milling my own flour, I look down and he's had them for two years. All of his warts are gone. That's how I knew it was the vitamin E. People laugh at me. And I'd say, no, one of our children's warts went away. And I would share that story all the time.
- [21:49]
A
Time.
- [21:49]
B
Someone came up to me one time and they said, you really shouldn't share all this wart stuff. It really sounds hokey. You know, all your other stuff is pretty scientific, but that's hokey. So I wasn't going to share it. And I was about to go speak in a conference and I was going to take that wart story out till a lady walked up to me 15 minutes before and said, my very best friend had a huge wart on her thumb. She goes, it was so massive that they said if we tried to cut it off, we'd almost have to amputate your thumb.
- [22:14]
A
Oh my gosh.
- [22:14]
B
Live with a. So she was like, okay. She goes, sue, even my husband's a doctor. And she said, he said, live with the word. I don't know what to do for you. You know, she said, I just baked two loaves of bread that day. And I looked at my friend and I said, hey, I heard this lady say, this bread will get word of warts. Do you want to try it? She took the bread home and she goes, sue, I just have to tell you. Before she finished the first loaf of bread, the wart was going away. By the second loaf of bread, the wart was completely gone. A wart so huge. Okay, so I was speaking at a homeschool show. I only have 45 minutes. I'm clipping along, talking as fast as I can, and I get to the wart part and I'm like, you know what, maybe I should just get it. Skip it. The Holy Spirit just says, nope, tell your wart story. So I shorten it up as best I can. I tell my wart story and something happened that day, Alex, that's never happened before and never since. I finished five minutes early, not finished, but if I'd gone on, it would take him 30 minutes. So I just stop and I'm like, does anybody have any questions, anything you want to share? Two people stand up and share wart stories. When I leave my room that day, I walk out in the hall, a young mom, tears flowing down her face, and she said, I was walking past your room to go to another workshop, and the Lord told me to go in there. And she goes, my daughter has over 500 warts on her body. 17 year old girl. She got started getting them when she was 12. She said, we had them all burned off. Do you understand that's just a treatment of a symptom. You're not treating the virus. And she said, we've tried everything. She said they currently have her on ulcer medication because maybe it's stress related. And I'm like, well, talk about practicing medicine. Anyway, we won't, you know. And she was in tears. And then her daughter comes up, she's this beautiful 17 year old girl, but you could see the warts all in her headline hairline. She pulled up her pants leg and she had a patch about this big, over 250. She said, I won't go swimming, won't wear shorts, won't go swimming with my friends because I don't want them to see this nasty work mess on my leg. The mom comes to my booth, we had a vending booth, you know, and she goes, tasted the bread, she goes, how much is the meal? I told her, and she goes, you know, I paid more than that for one medication for my daughter that didn't work and none of us could eat. She goes, I like to cook we have to eat. What have I got to lose if it doesn't work? I got a phone call. Are you ready for this? Two and a half weeks, every wart on that child's body was gone. This is the craziest thing I've ever heard.
- [24:39]
A
No, I'm not even laughing.
- [24:41]
B
No, no, no, no. I am in awe. And this. We have hundreds. Hundreds. This is not just two isolated. Three isolated cases. And then about a year or so later. No, it was more than that. Cause she was married and had a baby. It was several years later. I'm speaking in Virginia at a conference they invited me to, and that young girl comes up to me, me, I'm gonna cry. Pulls up her sleeves and go, look, Mrs. Becker, still no warts.
- [25:05]
A
Praise God.
- [25:06]
B
I know. And hundreds. And you think I have a podcast Testimony. On my podcast, a little girl, she just prayed that God would take her warts away. And they had tried everything. And the mom tries the bread, and the warts go away. And I see people all the time go, warts go away on their own. This bread's not a miracle cure. I'm like, you tell that to the girl that had 500 and they went away in two and a half weeks, that it had them for five years. Yeah, maybe they'll go. But I see people say, I had them all my life. And I look down and go, oh, my gosh. And they didn't even expect that. The guy that shared his testimony in that workshop that day, he said, I thought you were crazy, you know? And I didn't think about that too much because I had all the sinus congestion, the constipation, all the other things you talked about. He said, so we just did the bread for that. But he goes, one day, I looked down and went, oh, my gosh. Words I've had since I was a little boy are all gone. So it's. When you provide your body with the nutrients needed to support your immune system, then your body can heal itself, even from a virus that you've had for years, that the manifestation is warts. And you know what's even more exciting to me when I think about those stories? Two and a half weeks to get rid of 500 warts. What other virus is it protecting us from? And your tonsils. I just coming down, a lady on the elevator, she goes, my tonsils are so inflamed, they want to take them out. What is that a sign of? That your immune system is so weakened, your tonsils, your little first line of defense, that God gave You when you were a baby, that should atrophy as your immune system gets stronger. If they're inflamed when you're an adult, that's a sign that your immune system is over taxed. It's stressful. And we have testimonies. My own, my tonsils have atrophied. When I was a senior in high school, they wanted to take them out. I don't know why I didn't let them. But they've atrophied now and so have all my children's because their immune system is strong. They don't need their tonsils anymore.
- [27:07]
A
So if somebody wants to get into this, I mean what is the best starter pack? Like what do they need to buy or, or what do they need to plan for? Right?
- [27:14]
B
So a grain mill and it's a little over 300, $330 is the wonder mill. Grain mill, so that's your starter. You gotta have a way to mill your own flour and then you're going to need wheat. And that's how we started selling wheat. People go, okay, I have a grain mill, where do I get wheat? And I'm like, guess we need to sell wheat, so get some wheat.
- [27:32]
A
Don't you have like clubs or something in different cities?
- [27:35]
B
Yes, we have what we call co ops. Our machine ship free. So that's easy to get those shipped to you. But grain is heavy. We package all of our grain in 6 gallon food grade buckets with carbon dioxide gas so they're perfectly protected from moisture, bugs and rodents. Early on in our business fact one week, we hadn't even gotten our business license yet. God woke me up early in the morning and said that he was raising us up to be like Joseph to supp his people with grain. And so we set up these co ops is what we call them. We have them on an ordering schedule. They're different ones. In all the city we have a coordinator that handles the orders and the pickup location and everything like that. And we have over 150 all over the country. So what it does is it we can ship you grain ups, but it's very expensive. So what it does is when you order collectively then we, we compile that order, we put it on a pallet and ship it on a freight line. And so you get much less shipping costs that way. And you can order in bulk and you can order as much or as little as you want. And like I said, we have them all over the country.
- [28:39]
A
Where do you find your co op?
- [28:40]
B
So you go on our website, breadbeckers co op.com find the one that's closest to you and see when your order month. So what they'll do is they'll order one month and then it's delivered the next month. So for the co op shoe order three times a year we deliver every four months.
- [28:55]
A
Months. So what type of wheat berries are you supposed to buy? Because there's like a million options.
- [28:59]
B
I know. Well, maybe not quite a million, but there, there is. So for yeast breads you need what's called a hard wheat. That's a high protein, low moisture grain. It's got a lot of those proteins, those gluten forming proteins that form the stretch that you must have to trap the carbon dioxide gas when you're doing a yeast leavened bread, that's so important. So that's what enables the bread to rise. So you need a hard wheat. There's a couple of varieties. There's hard red, there's hard white. A couple other good varieties of wheat might be spelter Kam. Those are more ancient grains and so those are good for your yeast leavened breads. You can also make quick breads with them. But those are good for your yeast leavened breads. They grow in the colder, drier climates of the United States. In the south we grow soft wheat. And soft wheat is more for your cakes and your cookies and your pastries and your biscuits, which is why southerners eat biscuits and not so much east lemon bread. So that would be a good starter. I, I tell people, if you can afford it, I'd get a bucket of hard red wheat, a bucket of hard white wheat and a bucket of soft wheat to make your cookies and things like that.
- [30:02]
A
And so these buckets, how long do those last?
- [30:04]
B
Grain is storable. Grain will last, it's storable pretty indefinitely as long as you keep it away from bugs, moisture and rodents. And so that's why we package it in those buckets. And it doesn't matter if you open it and go in and out and in and out, it's good for probably a lifetime.
- [30:18]
A
What is the most universally loved grain?
- [30:20]
B
Wheat. Because it's so versatile. You can make bread with it, you can make muffins with it, you can make cookies with it, you can make anything with it, with it.
- [30:27]
A
So what's the most nutritious wheat grains?
- [30:30]
B
It that's hard. Cuz people ask me that all the time. That would be like standing in the produce section going what is the most, what is the healthiest fruit here? Yeah, they, they all have different Things, you know, white corn has. Or yellow corn has more beta carotene than white corn. But does that mean you don't eat white corn? Because you don't get. No, you eat a. You get a. Eat a cross section of everything, you know, so grains, whole grains, once you
- [30:54]
A
freshly mill the flour, like the flour that comes out, how long is that good?
- [30:59]
B
Well, there's a lot of differing opinions, but from my studies and I've talked to universities, oxidation begins as soon as that flour is milled and those nutrients are exposed to the air. Just like you cut an apple and it starts turning dark, or an avocado with oil starts turning dark. So oxidation begins immediately. In my first few years of studying, I had read some information, and it was credible information that said you lose about 45% of the nutrients that are there in the first day. Now, you're not gonna lose the fiber, you're not gonna lose the protein and starch, but vitamins and minerals and oils begin to oxidize immediately. There's a lot of differing studies that say, oh, it'll. It'll last for a year or whatever. Maybe it'll last for a year. But it's just like, you know, the tomato sitting on your counter or the cabbage in your refrigerator, it's losing nutritional value. It may not be rotten, but it's losing nutritional value. So I've seen studies done where there was a German rat study done where they fed a group of rats. There were five groups. The first one a freshly milled flour. The first group was fed freshly milled flour. The second group, bread made from that freshly milled flour. The other two were flour that was freshly milled but then held for 14 days. Bread made with that flour that had been held for 14 days. And then the fifth group was white flour. The. The article, the study said that only those first two groups thrived. So you lost something even holding it for 14 days. Once the bread is baked, the nutritional loss is minimal. So I tell busy moms, mill your flour that's fast and easy. Bake, you know, have a bake day. Bake your bread. Freeze your bread if you need to. You know, but cooking it helps retain those that nutritional value.
- [32:30]
A
Can you refrigerate freshly milled flour?
- [32:32]
B
You know, there's some research being done out there. You know, we know that oils don't go rancid as quickly if you refrigerate. You know, foods that have fat in them. But apples still turn dark if you've cut them and put them in the refrigerator. Bananas still turn dark and avocado still turns dark in the refrigerator. So we know that that's an oxidation process. And one thing that I really have studied a lot is vitamin E. And I like I mention, mentioned Dr. Wilfred Shute earlier in his works he used vitamin E to treat heart disease. And I remember reading in one of his books, he said he was so thankful when vitamin E began to be encapsulated because he was using wheat germ oil for his treatment of heart disease for the vitamin E content. And he said after three days it didn't have enough vitamin E to be able to be used therapeutically. So he was very glad. So there was, there's that three day thing again. I keep. And that was another thing that I'd read that a lot of the nutrients by three days have as much as 90% have been oxidized out. So I don't know the hard in fact answers to that. People will send me reports that show a little bit more, a little bit less. And so I just say, you're better off milling your flour. Bake your bread, eat your bread. The bread will store. But I still tell people if you have to go to a friend's house and mill flour and put it in your refrigerator, put it in your freezer and use it over the course of a week. So we know that people milled their flour at the local miller in the early days. That is the best flour you can possibly use. And we do mill flour, small amounts for people. We don't ship it. But when people come in our store, they're not ready to jump into a grain mill. We mill the flour and say, go home, put it in the refrigerator, make your bread. It's still the healthiest flour you can buy. Yeah.
- [34:18]
A
Is sourdough bread at the store the best option?
- [34:21]
B
It's probably the best option by like
- [34:24]
A
a, like a millisecondimeter or whatever.
- [34:27]
B
If it's, if it's white flour, yes, it might be easier to digest. And that's what I hear people say that it doesn't cause me the stomach pain because you are getting maybe some extra enzymes and breaking down of the proteins and things like that. So it may be easier to digest, but it doesn't have fiber in it and I don't know how many vitamins and minerals that it has in it. You know, when we had our bakery and we mailed which we don't have a bakery anymore for everybody listening that thinks they can buy bread, we don't have a bakery anymore. Anymore. We had our bread Laboratory tested and the lab actually called us and said, what are you fortifying your bread with? We were like, nothing. What do you mean? Or they. And we said nothing. And they went, no, no, no, you don't understand. What vitamins are you putting in your bread? And we said nothing. No, no, you don't understand. What are you enriching your flour with? We went nothing. And it has like, I can't remember the exact statistics, but it's like 8% of the vitamin B. One in one slice has the B2, B3 iron, 10. I think the biggie, one in one slice of bread. 100% of your vitamin E in one slice of bread. Now, do I totally buy into the daily value? You know, is that really what we need? But that's as close to what, what we can value things on. Daily value is how much of a vitamin or nutrient you need to prevent illness. So one slice of our bread, 100% of the vitamin E is in one slice of bread. It's not going to be in white flour.
- [35:57]
A
Right.
- [35:57]
B
Because no amount vitamin E or fiber is ever added to enriched white flour.
- [36:02]
A
Yeah.
- [36:02]
B
So that they're missing. Is it the best? Maybe. But find, find somebody to make bread for you. They'll do it.
- [36:12]
A
I just got a message from a listener that said, Alex, I thought air purifiers were hype until I got a Jasper within one night. I was sleeping better, breathing easier and wondering how I've ever lived without it. And that is the reaction that I hear over and over again. Most people do not think about air quality and they also don't even know that they have bad air quality until you get a JAS because it's not your typical air purifier. It is the first air scrubber specifically built for home use using commercial grade technology powerful enough to tackle wildfire smoke, mold spores, dust, pollen, pet dander, and even the VOCs released from household products and furniture. What I love is that it doesn't just mask problems, it actually removes them. And that's especially important during seasons when windows stay closed. Whether it's wildfire season, allergy season or winter when we're spending more time indoors, the air inside our homes can often be more polluted than we realize. Which is why so many people notice improvements in their their sleep, breathing and overall well being after bringing a Jasper into every room of their home. Plus it's backed by a lifetime warranty. So this isn't just another gadget, it's an investment in your family's long term health. Go to Jasper Co use code Alex for 200 off. That's Jasper J A S P R doco with code Alex for $200 off. One thing my 30s have made very clear. I am done over complicating things. I want the smallest suitcase possible. I want the makeup bag with only essentials. I want more space in my bathroom cabinet and less toxic junk that I've been dragging around for years. Years. I recently purged like five old naked palettes that I've had for over a decade and it felt incredible because now if something takes up space in my routine, it has to earn it. That's why I use Adele Natural Cosmetics Blue Lagoon Face Balm. This is one of those products that just makes your life so much easier and more hydrated. It's still a light and breathable moisturizer, gives your skin a beautiful glow without feeling greasy and makeup will go on so much smoother. It's the kind of product that makes you look more than rather rested and put together in just two minutes. And because Adele is focused on clean, non toxic beauty, I really, really love feeling good about using that every day. Their products are handcrafted in Texas by a conservative Christian family. You can tell that there is so much care behind everything they make. It's skincare that actually simplifies your life instead of adding another unnecessary step. Go to Adele Natural Cosmetics.com use code ALEX for 25 off your first purchase. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics.com code ALEX for 25 OFF your first time purchase. Question when you came and visited me the first time you brought me some bread and it tasted like so similar to Sarah Lee Honey Wheat or something like that. What bread recipe was that of yours?
- [38:38]
B
That's my basic bread dough. Us Americans, we like sweet fluffy bread. So I use honey and oil and yeah. To make my bread soft and fluffy and sandwich texture very soft. Yes.
- [38:50]
A
If somebody is struggling to use freshly milled flour to make sourdough and claims that their starter won't eat their freshly milled flour, what are they doing wrong?
- [38:58]
B
I have no idea because I feed my sourdough starter with freshly milled flour and it's bubbly day one. You know, even when I'm making my starter, it's bubbly in day one. So I don't know what to tell them there. Check your water, make sure it's not chlorinated or something like that. But I have heard people say that and I just don't understand. We teach sourdough classes and we're feeding it with 100% freshly milled flour.
- [39:20]
A
So is there something else in the process happening? Is it true that Einkorn bread is keto?
- [39:25]
B
I do know that one slice of our bread, bread that we make with just hard red wheat or hard white wheat has 5 grams of protein, one slice. So I don't know that Einkorn is any higher protein than your regular traditional wheats. I don't. I don't know.
- [39:41]
A
Are there any tips for using Einkorn flour for sourdough?
- [39:44]
B
I mean, you can certainly use it. Einkorn has. Is the new quinoa. That's what I'm going to say. Do you remember a few years ago, quinoa, everything. Quinoa. Einkorn's the new quinoa. Einkorn is a little trickier to work with because it is a little bit lower protein. I love Einkorn for more for quick breads, though, like muffins and pancakes. I don't know of any trick for using Einkorn and sourdough over your regular wheats and things like that.
- [40:09]
A
If you're using freshly milled flour, what percent of your diet do you think should be grains?
- [40:14]
B
A lot. I've traveled to other countries and taught them how to make bread. I go to Haiti, I go to Tanzania. I've been to Israel. You know, I've been to Greece. The mainstay of their diet is grains, grains and beans. You know, you tell a. You tell an Italian or Greek person, you give me some grains and beans and I can make a meal, you know, so I think it should be the most part of your plate and then meat the most. Yeah.
- [40:40]
A
And then not protein.
- [40:41]
B
Well, you get protein from grains. That's what people don't understand. You do? Yes. The endosperm is protein and starch. That's the white flour part.
- [40:49]
A
Okay. Yeah.
- [40:50]
B
Cool. Yeah. And that's the most part of the grain is protein and starch. You get good proteins. The. No, the main protein in your brain is found in wheat, is the richest food source. I mean, you get proteins and that's what people don't understand. Just because it's a carbohydrate. So, yeah, you get a lot of protein from that. You get, like I said, five grams from one slice of bread.
- [41:11]
A
What are your recommendations for a celiac?
- [41:13]
B
It's hard to know what to say to people because there is such a thing as true genetic celiac disease. Here's the kicker. It affects less than 1% of Americans. That's probably not what you and I are seeing around the country. So, so they will never be able to eat wheat freshly ground because they are born with the inability to break down a protein found in wheat called gliadin. Okay. But it's so often misdiagnosed. And what people are presenting is all the symptoms of celiac disease, even biopsies. You know, they. Oh, they biopsied me and I have celiac disease. Well, you have what I have learned in reading research studies, studies what's called non genetic celiac disease. Good news for those people. And that's the majority of people that think they are celiac. You can mill your own grain, even wheat, though it has gliadin and those proteins, and you cannot just tolerate it. You find healing and health.
- [42:17]
A
Let me share something that's extremely tmi. So I'm just giving you that warning. But when I was in high school, this doctor told me that I had celiac and I, I did. And I just, I never, ever had solid bowel movements for almost the majority of my life because all I ate was ultra processed food.
- [42:38]
B
Yes, yes.
- [42:39]
A
So he didn't tell me, stop eating the ultra processed food. Your, your bowel movements will be normal. He was like, oh, well, you must have celiac disease.
- [42:47]
B
Yes.
- [42:48]
A
So there's a lot of that.
- [42:49]
B
Yes, there is a lot of that.
- [42:50]
A
As soon as I changed my food, everything was normal.
- [42:53]
B
Yes, yes. And that's what we see all the time. Unfortunately, a lot of times, times they get told they're celiac. So they, they, you have to give up wheat, you have to give up bread. And they do. So they get that sometimes things turn normal. You know, they, they start having normal bowel movements, the stomach pain goes away because they've quit eating that processed bread in the store. But then like I've told you so many times though, the next thing they know, they find they have this issue, this issue, this issue. And it just kind of seems to get on a roller coaster until they put real bread back in. So I try to be careful there, but it's like right before I came here, I just spoke with a little girl and I want to help people find food freedom. And I once heard a doctor that really started the whole gluten free nonsense, I call it. And for celiac, it's not nonsense. I get that. But for most of the world it is. And I remember him saying, giving up wheat is one of the easiest things you can do. And I'm like, what planet do you live on? You know, have you been to the grocery store? Do you shop for your food? That's That's a very difficult thing. And it's a food that we shouldn't give up. It's a food that we need to save and bring back to the way God intended us to eat it. What Jesus compared himself to.
- [44:09]
A
If somebody has nailed down bread, like they're really great at making bread, but they're having trouble with cookies and cakes, what might be the issue?
- [44:17]
B
You might be using the wrong kind of flour. I would go with soft, white, sweet. Spelt is great. Einkorn is really great. So you might have to, if you're using one of your traditional tried and true recipes, I find that you have to add a little bit more flour to those recipes.
- [44:33]
A
Where do you stand on soaking the grain to neutralize the phytic acid?
- [44:37]
B
Phytic acid is not an anti nutrient. I just did two podcasts on that. I've spent three years researching phytic acid. It is an antioxidant, a powerful antioxidant. It protects the seed from germinating too soon until conditions are right. So that's what it does for the seed, but for you and I, it keeps you from over absorbing dangerous minerals, minerals that you need. And so it's known as a chelator. And so someone has, they did studies where they fed you all phytic acid, you know, and. Yeah, so it chelated you. It helped, didn't you? Couldn't absorb iron and calcium, whatever, but not the way God created it if we're eating it in real food. So it protects you from absorbing too much iron. Iron deficiency is an issue, but too much iron is a problem too. That can cause a lot of free radicals in your body, so it protects you from that. It's getting a bad rap. And now they're even finding that it's a potent protector and anti carcinogenic agent. So I'm not one that says you need to soak your grains to denature the phytic acid. You need that phytic acid. When the phytic acid thing came on the scene 15, 20 years ago, big time got real popular. Everybody's saying you have to soak your grains, you have to sprout your grains. I did a lot of research and I came across a book by a biochemist and it was called Diet for the Atomic Age. She talked about how toxic our world is from radiation and microwaves and all the things, and now we're even more toxic than we were 20, 30 years ago. And she said the more toxic our world becomes, the more grains and beans we need to be eating to get the phytic Acid to protect us and, you know, chelate these toxins out of our body. That changed my perspective of phytic acid.
- [46:26]
A
How can you keep non yeast treats like muffins from becoming too crumbly?
- [46:31]
B
Try adding using eggs and fat. And I learned a trick of storing them. Put a paper towel in the storage container. It's like magical. Don't ask me. Well, I do know how. I think it absorbs the moisture and keeps the muffin from, from getting gummy. You know how sometimes it'll get gummy on top? It just keeps it from doing that. Then, you know, I just told you you might need more flour. Maybe you need less flour. So there's a little fine line there. Just keep working on that recipe till you, you'll get it there. You know, find out what you need to do to make that muffin better. I love muffins. They're easy and fast. I tell every mom, skip the yeast bread. If you can't make yeast bread, make a muffin, bake a pancake, make a, make a waffle. You can do that. Your kids will love it.
- [47:16]
A
This question's probably gonna give you nightmares. If you use part con white flour and part freshly milled, is that beneficial?
- [47:23]
B
I'm an all or nothing person.
- [47:25]
A
I don't know why you would do that. I don't even understand the purpose.
- [47:27]
B
Well, I know because you heard me. I mean, and that's what I did prior to knowing about milling my own grain. I was trying to buy the nasty whole grain flour from the store. And the only way we could consume it, if I mixed it with white flour, you know, so I get the tendency to do that. But you're adding in, you know, flour that's been. Been bleached with chlorine and benzoyl products. I guess they buy unbleached flour and maybe unbromated.
- [47:55]
A
Yeah, but like, why would you even do that? Like, if you're just milling your flour, then just use all the milled flour.
- [47:58]
B
Yeah, because they say, oh, I can't get soft bread. And I'm like, I don't know. I. I'll help you with that. Let me help you get soft bread. My bread is as soft as can be. I mean, you tasted it. It is, it's literally like a pillow.
- [48:10]
A
Like.
- [48:10]
B
Yeah.
- [48:11]
A
Is bread from freshly milled flour better for your glycemic?
- [48:15]
B
Yes, it's a low glycemic index food. You know, you see, the naysayers say, oh, whole wheat bread is still high glycemic index. Yeah, the stuff in the store, because it's not real. But when you freshly mill your flour, very low glycemic index and loaded with fiber, when, you know, when you eat complex carbohydrates, your body starts digesting them well, the fiber in there really slows the digestive process. Slow release of those sugars that your body needs for energy. And then so that slow release of sugar, you don't get that spike in your blood sugar. You don't get that demand for insulin. You just get this steady blood sugar level. And so, yeah, it's low glycemic index. We have lots of people, every now and then we'll hear someone say, you know, buy blood sugar spikes when I eat this bread. More than not, we hear people say, oh, my goodness, my blood sugar is stabilized. I've come off my medication. Even. Even with type 1 diabetes, they were, you know, born with it, or they'll. They'll say it's greatly reduced how much insulin I have to take. And that's a. That's a plus no matter what you say.
- [49:23]
A
Do you sell plastic free grain mills?
- [49:25]
B
Our grain mill that we love, the outside is plastic, and then the flour does go into a plastic canister, but the inside, the milling heads are stainless steel. So the grain is dropping in there, there, and going through the stainless steel milling heads, and the motor is metal,
- [49:44]
A
but there's no, like, wood ones or anything.
- [49:45]
B
Well, that we do sell. We do sell wood grain mills. They're stone mills, milling heads. I'm not a huge fan of them because the milling heads have to be replaced, and they're made of a composite material. So if they have to be replaced and that milling head is wearing down, what's happening to that material? Where's it going? So that's kind of my thought there. When the stainless steel milling heads came out back in the 80s, the Mills prior to that were all stone milling heads. And people love the stainless steel milling heads because there's. They're so durable. Lifetime, limited lifetime warranty. They don't wear out. They're. And they're fast and they're clean. They clean themselves. There's no guessing. Pour your grain in, it comes out flour. So we do. We do sell the wooden ones, and they're a little more expensive, a little more tedious, little learning curve. But a lot of people love them. They do, they love them, but they're slow. What I can do in 30 seconds, it might take five minutes in a stone mill, wooden box, pretty sits on your counter. They're expensive, though. And for people that are on a tight budget, you know, you're talking 6, $700 as opposed to 3, $330.
- [50:51]
A
What are your top three tips for somebody on the fence on starting to mill their own flour?
- [50:56]
B
Just do it. You'll never regret it. We have too many stories of people. People say, this changed my life. So just jump in, get a grain meal, get some wheat, just start doing it and you tell me what the changes are. I'd love to hear from you.
- [51:11]
A
Why might freshly milled flour for someone be making extremely dense bread?
- [51:16]
B
Usually it's adding too much flour. And that's why I love a bread machine or a mixer to knead the dough. You can knead dough by hand and sourdough, of course, a lot of people do that by hand, but a mixer is going to need that dough no matter how sticky that dough is. So if you're bread is heavy and dense, it's usually a sign that you've got too much flour in it. So that's why using a machine to knead it so you don't have to keep adding flour so it doesn't stick to your hands. That's usually a better way to get a little softer bread. That's usually my tip there. If they say my bread's just heavy and dense, it's usually too much flour. Also, I use an emulsifier called lecithin. Sunflower seed lecithin. Lecithin gets a bad rap because the food industry uses it from soy. That's the richest, cheapest food source. But I use sunflower seed lecithin. Lecithin is already in your grains. It's in any food that has fat in it, but it's emulsifier, so it breaks the oils that you're using in your recipe, breaks them down a little bit more, helps them to be absorbed into the flour and the dough. So it makes a smoother dough, a softer bread, and it actually helps your bread stay softer and moist longer. So I do love that.
- [52:23]
A
If you're at the store, do you sunflower flour? Less. Less thin. Different than sunflower oil?
- [52:28]
B
Yes. Okay.
- [52:29]
A
I just want to make.
- [52:30]
B
It's an. Extracted from the sunflower seeds.
- [52:32]
A
Yeah. So sunflower oil, we do not want. That's a seed oil. But this is different.
- [52:35]
B
Well, if it's extracted naturally, sunflower seed oil is getting a bad rap. But I've been to a sunflower farm. You're good with it. Yes. If it's. If it's okay extracted, they run it through a press and it comes out
- [52:47]
A
I don't know about that. I might disagree with sue back around that, but, but that's okay.
- [52:50]
B
But I believe like corn and, and soybeans, beans, and those have to have a solvent to be extracted.
- [52:56]
A
True.
- [52:57]
B
Sunflower seeds, they're oily, you press them. And I've made flax seed oil with a press. Yeah. And some flowers are the same way.
- [53:04]
A
Sally Fallon from Western A Price. I mean, she says to put sunflower oil in your homemade baby formula.
- [53:09]
B
Yeah.
- [53:10]
A
So I mean, you might be right. I don't know.
- [53:11]
B
Yeah, well, it's, it's. Yes. And it is a seed, but you got to understand it's different. It's an oily seed. You just drop it in a press and it presses the oil out. No solvents needed.
- [53:24]
A
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- [55:57]
B
Well, sometimes on Sunday mornings when my kids were all at home, I would go, here's your muffin, here's your smoothie. Get in the car. So that was. So a muffin and a smoothie is great. Fruits and vegetables with your grain. Grains and beans. Of course, beans make a, they complement grains. Protein that's missing in grains is found in beans. Protein that's missing in beans is found in grains. So gra. You know, that's why the world lives on beans and rice, you know, beans and cornbread. So eat some beans, have some grains.
- [56:26]
A
And I think too, you know, if you're just looking at like how to make a total complete meal, like having a plate that is adhering to the new dietary guidelines, having some protein, having some sort of carbs, so sweet potatoes or rice, something like that, white potatoes. And then having a fiber, having a good vegetable on there, having, having something fermented. For the first time, our dietary guidelines are recommending something fermented. Guys, I'm so obsessed with sauerkraut. I'm so obsessed with kimchi. We have, Vance and I, every single time, like we make dinner together, we always have a little cup of like sauerkraut with whatever we're eating and then having just a piece of freshly mil flour bread with a whole slab of butter and then whatever your protein is that you're eating, cooking that and you know, beef tallow or olive oil. A healthy fat fat.
- [57:16]
B
Yeah.
- [57:17]
A
Cooking your potatoes in a healthy fat like duck fat and then vegetables and olive oil or whatever you're getting. And then a huge slab of grass fed, organic grass fed butter on that freshly milk flour bread.
- [57:25]
B
Absolutely.
- [57:26]
A
You're gonna feel so satiated, so full, your kids are not going to be asking for snacks for a long time.
- [57:30]
B
Right.
- [57:30]
A
I think that's like an ideal plate you got me.
- [57:34]
B
Yes.
- [57:34]
A
Yeah.
- [57:35]
B
And that's, you know, when I, when I first started and I was going to homeschool shows and you know, they, they people go, you must spend all your time in the kitchen. And I was like, absolutely not. I said we eat a meal and my kids don't stop, they're not hungry until the next meal. What you described is what I, we eat meat, we eat vegetables and you know, and also when, when I say bread, that could be brown rice, black eyed peas, a piece of bread. So that's when I say my plate's going to be mostly bread or whole grains. Do you see what I'm saying? And then the meat on the side, a sweet potato, green vegetables, a fruit, a fermented drink, Kefir kombucha.
- [58:11]
A
Kombucha, yeah.
- [58:12]
B
You know. Yes. And I, I tell you, I've been as a food microbiologist, I've been teaching cultured food since 1992. 1991. And now when I started it was Dannon yogurt. That's all you could get. Now you go and there's this whole case of stuff and you can make your own so easily. Sauerkraut is delicious homemade.
- [58:33]
A
Why not store bought organic wheat flour?
- [58:36]
B
Well, if it is milled and all of the bran and germ is left whole and intact. So if it's milled with more of an, at an independent miller, maybe so. But again, it is losing nutritional value when it's stored on the shelf. And, but unfortunately, like your commercial whole wheat flour, when the steel rolling mills came on the scene, that started sifting the bran and germ away, that's the way all of the commercially milled flour is now. And so what they do to make whole grain flours, then they'll add some of that bran and germ back in. And so I don't, I don't trust it. You know, if, if you can buy from a trusted source, then that might be the best option for you. But it's typically expensive. I mean, it's cheaper to mill your own and faster.
- [59:27]
A
What does it mean? When your flour says unbleached or enriched,
- [59:30]
B
white unbleached means they did not use the chlorine derivatives or benzoyl peroxide to bleach the flour. You know, when they. When they separate the bran and germ, the residual oils from the. The germ caused some yellowing in that white flower. And oh, my goodness, we couldn't have yellow flour. So they were like, okay, we got to bleach it. So product called nitrogen trichloride was used for more than 25 years until they discovered that it caused seizures and hyperactivity in dogs. So they went, oh, well, we can't use that. So we'll still use a chlorine derivative to bleach the flower. Benzoyl peroxide is another bleaching agent. So a lot of people do opt for that, where they're like, well, at least I'm not getting those bleaching agents. So they'll do the unbleached. But enriched is a deceptive term that. As a food scientist, I didn't realize how deceptive it was until I learned this. So for the 35 to 40 nutrients and fiber that are taken away or lost when we remove the Brandon germ, they put four back in. Or originally that was the four mandated to put back in, three synthetically produced B vitamins and iron. Okay, that was it. That was all that was mandated. And so then it took 50 years, like I shared before, of watching the rising incidence of neural tube birth defects that go, hmm, the missing folic acid, or folate, the natural folate, that's no longer in our bread. We better put that back in. So, yeah, it. It helped that a little bit. But again, it's synthetic. It's causing a lot of health issues. They've even banned synthetic folic acid from being in part of the enrichment process in other European countries. Cause they're finding people can't break, break it down. But good news is, for someone with that MTHFR gene mutation, they can eat the real folate that's in freshly milk flour. So that's what it means by enriched. And it's a very deceptive term. They replace a mere fraction of the nutrients that were there. If they had just left the bran and germ in.
- [61:29]
A
How do you get freshly milled flour bread to have air holes? I don't know why they want that.
- [61:33]
B
Oh, that's a sourdough baker, I'm sure. Okay, so that's a tricky one. If you're a sourdough baker and you use white flour and you switch to freshly milled whole grain. You're gonna understand right away. While everyone loved white flour, cause it made fluffier bread a softer texture. Whole grain flour. The best way I can describe it is thirsty. In your sourdough baking, they. You go by a hydration, a high hydration flour will give you those big holes, you know that artisan bread that you love that has the chew on it, you know, and you just, you just love it with those big air holes in it. That's a little trickier to get with your whole grain. Freshly milled whole grain grain because it's thirsty. So you have to just up that hydration until it's almost a wet dough and just. Yeah, it's a little trickier.
- [62:18]
A
You want to add more water?
- [62:19]
B
Yes.
- [62:20]
A
Can you explain ancient grains versus modern grains?
- [62:23]
B
Yeah, that's a biggie thing. That came out, you know, a number of years ago. The whole thing about wheat being genetically modified, our modern wheat being genetically modified. And it's not, it's wheat is crossbred. There's new varieties of wheat developed every year from crops crossing this wheat variety with this wheat variety like we do with apples and oranges and everything else. And it's done to find what will grow best in this climate in this area. So I personally don't have a problem with modern wheat. But a lot of people have jumped on the bandwagon of more ancient grains. Your Kamut spelt Einkorn Emmer. They're healthy, they're nutritious. So yeah, they're just older varieties. But there's nothing wrong with our modern wheat, just so you know. There's just nothing wrong with it.
- [63:08]
A
How do you get a good, good rise?
- [63:10]
B
So you've got to choose the right wheat, the right grain for your, what you're making. So that's what I tell people, especially people converting white flour recipes. You know, it might. We get this question all the time. Okay, My recipe calls for all purpose flour. What wheat do I choose? If it's all purpose flour and it's a yeast or a sourdough leavened bread, then you've got to go with a hard wheat, a high protein wheat. Okay. If it's a cake or a cookie or a muffin, you're going to get a better texture if you go with a soft wheat. So that's, that's what you choose according to what recipe you're using.
- [63:45]
A
Someone says your recipe book requires so many ingredients to make bread. Why can't it be simpler?
- [63:49]
B
It can be simple and I don't think flour, water, salt. And I make American bread, oil and honey and yeast. I mean, I don't know that. Have you read the food label? It's a whole lot less than.
- [64:01]
A
I don't know.
- [64:03]
B
I was like, I think this is pretty simple. I do. So what a lot of people have to understand is, you know, I started this. I had five young children. You know, when I started, we were used to fluffy bread, And I'm Southern. I like a tomato sandwich on a soft piece of bread, and they liked peanut butter sandwich on a soft bread. Americans like soft bread, and that's what we're used to. So I developed recipes that use oil, use honey as a sweetener, salt, yeast, flour. I don't think that's too okay. So I do use less lecithin to make the bread softer and stay softer. We discovered that when we had our bakery because we weren't putting preservatives in there. And we learned that that lecithin helped it hold moisture longer. So, yeah, I don't find my recipes to have that many ingredients. And muffins, it's flour, baking powder, baking soda, salt, oil, honey, egg, buttermilk. I don't understand that. So my first book came out in 2016, way before. Before the sourdough craze came on the scene, where everybody started weighing their grain. And people always come at me with, why do you use cups? I'm like, cause I'm old. I'm 71 years old. When I started cooking at 5 and 6, every recipe was cups and tablespoons and teaspoons. So I did just revise my essential homeground flour book. All my recipes now are by weight. And I did add a sourdough section, and I did add a crusty bread recipe. That's flour, water, salt, and yeast. That's it.
- [65:27]
A
Okay, so you're talking about weight. That means weaved. About buy. We need to buy a scale or something.
- [65:31]
B
Yeah. Which. I know the scale anyway, so the ti.
- [65:33]
A
So everything we need to buy to become a freshly milled flour person.
- [65:36]
B
The flour mill.
- [65:38]
A
Yeah, A scale.
- [65:39]
B
Yeah. Bread pans or some kind of pans. Something to knead your dough with. And I, you know, if you want to not knead it by hand to make life easy, a bread machine or a mixer.
- [65:48]
A
And you sell the bread machines?
- [65:49]
B
Yes, we do. We sell the Zoharushi. We love it. It's one of the best bread machines on the market.
- [65:53]
A
Okay.
- [65:54]
B
So. Yeah.
- [65:54]
A
And that's it.
- [65:55]
B
And they just came out with a ceramic pan, so that's Nice. Oh, yeah. And the grains, yeah, you got to have grains. So you got to have wheat. You got, you gotta have wheat. So buy your wheat. Hard wheat, soft wheat, corn. Oh my goodness. As a southerner, I love cornbread. The mill we sell will grind any kind of dry grain or bean into flour. So. And we love Ezekiel Mix in the fourth chapter of Ezekiel, God tells Ezekiel, take wheat, spelt, barley, millet, lentils and beans. Put em in one vessel. We sell it in a bag, one vessel and grind it, make a cake out of it. And it's delicious. I use it for most of my muffins and pancakes and things like that. Cause I like, like we talked about earlier, getting the combination of grains and beans and different variety of grains, they give you different things, you know, different nutrients and it makes a complete protein. So I like having that.
- [66:41]
A
How can people learn how to make bread with you?
- [66:44]
B
Okay, they can come to my class. They can come to Breadbeckers in Woodstock, Georgia. Come to a class. We have people flying in from all over to come to our class. They can check out our classes online. We have a YouTube channel, Breadbeckers, and they can learn right along with me. And the only thing they miss on those is they don't get to taste the bread. In the class, we feed you from the moment you walk in the door so you can taste how delicious the bread is.
- [67:08]
A
I love that. Okay, so what's near Woodstock, Georgia? Like, where am I flying into? What is there to do?
- [67:13]
B
Right, you're flying into Atlanta. We're about 35 miles north of Atlanta, so there's a lot to do. Yeah, in Atlanta, it's big.
- [67:20]
A
Do you offer online classes too or only in person?
- [67:23]
B
Yeah, we videotape our classes and we have a lot of classes already recorded and my wonderful producer has divided them up into chapter, so you can actually go if you just want to see the mixer demonstrated or the mill or the bread machine, or just hear me talk about wheat. And we do have a couple of videos that I did that are just your basic list of getting started items where I just go through. This is what hard wheat is. This is the difference in. Red wheat is a nuttier flavor. White wheat is a milder flavor. Soft wheat you want for your muffins and pancakes. Ezekiel mix and I go through. We sell extra virgin olive oil. That's my oil of choice that I, I use. We import it from Greece, so we know it's really olive oil. We use raw, unpasteurized honey. It hasn't been heat treated at all. So that's what, you know, those are the things we use. Natural mind mineral salt. So it's good ingredients. Yeah. So we just walk you through that and help you. And then we have a getting started page on our website and we have wonderful customer service that sometimes you can't get through to our phone because we're spending an hour with someone on the phone walking them through, trying to troubleshooting. We'll even. Sometimes our customer service will. I'll be prepping in the kitchen and she'll have her headset on. She'll come back, she goes, do you mind if I make some bread real quick? I've got someone on the phone and she'll walk her through setting up. And we're here to help you.
- [68:36]
A
Wow, that's incredible.
- [68:38]
B
We'll help you.
- [68:39]
A
If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be?
- [68:45]
B
Real bread. You know, here's the way I look at it. Jesus compared himself to bread. If you're sick and dying spiritually, who you going to start with? You know, we see people sit in church all their life. You know, a lot of philanthropists give, you know, sell things, give their money to do so many great charitable things. But if they don't know Jesus, they're sick and dying spiritually, their eternity is. If they don't know Jesus, it doesn't look good.
- [69:14]
A
Yeah.
- [69:15]
B
So take that over to our physical life. I have never seen one food bring so many noticeable changes, not just physically. We had one little girl had anxiety horribly. She went gluten free because they thought that was the problem and it changed her life. She. She's better now. You know, she's well now emotionally, mentally. So I take the bread over to our physical life. You want to, want to change your physical health, start with your bread. And then you're gonna feel like doing all kinds of other things, you know, drinking raw milk and having chickens and all kinds of things.
- [69:53]
A
Sue, you're like the most famous person I've had on this show. I mean, your first interview was so incredibly viral. It's one of the top episodes that I get told, you know, this is the episode that made me a fan of Culture Apothecary. This is the episode of Culture Apothecary that changed my life. So we are delighted to have you on a second time. You're always welcome back. You're such a friend of the show. My audience adores you. Go to Woodstock, Georgia and go hang out with Sue. So many, so many people in my audience have said that they went to the class, had the best time of their life and absolutely love their experience.
- [70:28]
B
So yeah we love what we do. We love helping people again. We would just want to help people find food, freedom and get well.
- [70:35]
A
What is the website again for people that want to buy a bread maker machine and the in the grain mill and the grains and all that.
- [70:41]
B
So it's breadbeckers.com and then our we YouTube channel again is Breadbeckers and then my podcast is Sue Healthy Minutes and then the co op is bread Beckers. Yeah breadbeckers co op.com and I tell people go to our website subscribe to our email newsletter. We will only send you Once a month 11 Newsletter a month and that'll tell you where I'm speaking classes that are coming up and come come join us for a class. We'd love to see you in our store.
- [71:07]
A
Thanks for coming on Culture Apothecary Again
- [71:09]
B
sue, thank you for having me. You're amazing.
- [71:14]
A
Whether you agree with every claim we discussed today or not, I think sue leaves us with an important question. If generations before us thrived on bread, what changed? To learn more from sue her classes, resources, podcast and book, check out the link in the show notes. And if you know someone who says I just wish I could eat bread, send them this episode and the one that we did last spring. New episodes come out every Monday and Thursday at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. Wherever you get your podcast, please leave us a five star review on Apple or Spotify. Tell me how long you've been listening. It takes two seconds. It really helps us this content is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be taken as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthc care professional regarding any questions or decisions related to your health or medical care. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.