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Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Milk, Red Meat, and Real Bread: Are Biblical Foods the Missing Key to Wellness? | Jordan Rubin
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- [00:00]
Jordan Rubin
I was told that if I didn't seek conventional treatments, chemotherapy, a really invasive surgery at the time, and likely radiation, there was a 100% chance I would be dead in 90 days. You can live long, master metabolism, reduce pain, fight depression, and conquer cancer with Healing Secrets from the Bible.
- [00:27]
Alex Clark
Jesus is.
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Jordan Rubin
The Bread Foreign.
- [00:53]
Alex Clark
What if the Bible isn't just a spiritual guide but a health manual we've been ignoring? In today's episode, we're diving into food, faith and radical healing with Jordan Rubin, one of the most controversial and compelling voices in biblical nutrition. We're talking raw milk, the war on bread, why A1 dairy might be worse than gluten, and whether Jesus would shop at your local grocery store. Essentially, this conversation will challenge everything you thought you knew about clean eating, natural medicine, and what it really means to treat your body as a temple. Jordan Rubin is a New York Times bestselling author and natural health pioneer. After nearly dying of Crohn's disease at 19, Jordan turned to what he calls Biblical health, a lifestyle that not only saved his life, but has transformed millions of others. His latest book, which is out in just a few weeks, the Biblio Diet, offers a bold blueprint for returning to God's original design for eating, healing and living. Get ready to rethink your health from the inside out. You can watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture Apothecary on Spotify, which also has video. And big thanks once again to our good friends at Wirefi helping you pay off your student loan debt for letting us use their studio once again. While I've got a huge bunch of carpet weavers actually weaving the patterns for the Portland airport in my studio, just temporarily join the Cute Servatives Facebook group to make like minded friends in your area. And please make sure each week that you leave us a five star review encouraging others to listen. This helps us climb the podcast charts, appeal to big guests, and gain more of an audience as we try to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally and spiritually. Please welcome author Jordan Rubin to Culture Apothecary. If God designed our bodies, did he also design our diet?
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Jordan Rubin
100% yes. And it's about time Christians ate like that.
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Alex Clark
We're not eating like that already.
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Jordan Rubin
We are not. You know Alex, today people are more confused than ever about healthy eating, but they're also more interested than ever. Not just out of desperation, but people want to feel their best, look their best, and younger people are finally getting it. However, it's time that people truly learn to eat by the book and that's what our mission's all about.
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Alex Clark
You believe that the Bible is actually the ultimate health book. Most people, I would say, don't read it that way. So what were you discovering reading Scripture? That really stood out to you in terms of health advice? For.
- [03:25]
Jordan Rubin
For me, it was a life or death situation. I was diagnosed at a young age, 19, with Crohn's colitis, inflammatory bowel disease, which by the way, back then, hardly anyone knew what it was. Today, there's multiple commercials per football game when you're watching for medications for ulcerative colitis, Crohn's disease, et cetera. So when I was ill, I visited 69 medical experts around the world. Conventional medicine failed. Alternative medicine failed. And I met a man who told me that if I followed a diet based on the Bible, proven through history and confirmed by science, I could be well. And Alex, just like you mentioned, I had read the Bible quite frequently, but never saw it as a health and nutrition book until that moment. And it all crystallized for me why I got sick in the first place and what my mission would be should this biblical based diet cause me to be healed, which it ultimately did. And in that case, I am constantly scouring the Bible each and every day for what it tells me by how to eat and how to live. And amazingly, even a month ago, after reading through The Bible perhaps 100 times, I received another confirmation or revelation that made me understand what God created us to eat and how we can achieve that biblical health and longevity that a lot of the heroes in the Bible have experienced.
- [04:58]
Alex Clark
Well, I love that you say that this is not only confirmed by the Bible, but backed by science, because I don't know if you realize this, Jordan, but you are on culture, apothecary. So the. The cult members of conventional medicine love to point out that none of this is science based. They're going against the experts on that show this dangerous health advice. So what did you discover? God said, but also science says as well. I think this is a very important part to point out.
- [05:24]
Jordan Rubin
Well, first and foremost, if you saw my before picture where I was 104 pounds in a wheelchair, and you saw my after picture, which looks a little different than me now because it was 31 years ago, I can tell you conclusively that God's word brings healing physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally. And I don't care what anybody says now, mind you, over the last 30 years, most of what I have written, most of what I followed, most of what I quote, unquote, preach has been proven by science. And if there were any issues, those myths have been debunked. Because the Bible says fat is good. The Bible says red meat is the best thing you can eat. The Bible says bread is so important that Jesus was referred to as the bread of life. The Bible says that the promised land flows with milk and honey. And Job, who lived one of the most up and down lives in scripture, said that when he was in his prime, cream lined the streets and oil flowed out of the rock right in front of him. Olive oil in particular.
- [06:33]
Alex Clark
So it wasn't canola?
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Jordan Rubin
No, it was not canola. I don't think they had any seeds that had the word rape in them back in the day.
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Alex Clark
Nope.
- [06:40]
Jordan Rubin
So much of what we have been talking about for so long is now coming to pass and I'm excited that this message message is facing a little less resistance. Because Alex, before you were getting all of the heat, I was in churches preaching a message about health and nutrition and getting a few whacks along the way.
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Alex Clark
Yeah, I, I think the church in particular, they focus on a lot of sin, they don't focus on gluttony and they don't focus on physical health and well being, I feel like as much as they should. And I think that's a really important facet of, of your spiritual walker should be for a myriad of reasons. But one that comes to mind for me is that, you know, if we are supposed to be doers of the faith and, and out there and evangelizing all of this, but we're too sick to move and leave our house, we're totally unwell. How are we going to be able to do that? And also I think about self discipline and just core tenets of the faith and how you should be totally transformed when you are saved. You should have that fruit right of being completely transformed. And so shouldn't your outward appear parents also show that, that you are being, you know, a good steward and you're self disciplined in this area as well as reading scripture and attending Bible study and, and being discipled and all of these other things.
- [08:02]
Jordan Rubin
Alex, you're trying to use logic in an environment where that is often thrown out the window. You know, I used to say when I would preach in churches that I see a future time where the headlines and this was back when there was radio, magazines and newspapers and Christians are the healthiest people in the world, living longer, living better, less cancer, less heart disease, less dementia. And what I found is quite the opposite. And in fact within churches we see as much Sickness, as much divorce, as much bankruptcy, etc. And I believe throughout history, when God gave His commandments, and I'm talking about Old Testament and New, he set a people group apart, whether it was the Hebrews or later, the early church. And I believe they looked differently, better, I believe they felt differently, they lived longer, and you could tell them from a distance because they followed certain principles. And here's the great part, Alex. We can follow those same principles today because God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. So I agree with you 100% that we should have answers to people's problems. We like to say in the church, Jesus is the answer. Jesus is the answer through us. And part of my personal mission, being healed from multiple incurable diseases with death sentences, is to help transform the health of God's people one life at a time, one meal at a time, one bite at a time.
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Alex Clark
True or false? You can't just hand your problem to your pastor and wait for a miracle. God is also waiting on you to move to true.
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Jordan Rubin
And I've often said that faith is the currency by which you purchase the miracle God is holding for you in his hand. Think about that. Some people would say, but wait a minute, Jordan. You're saying it's a system or a process. No, the answer is God has given us these great gifts, and he says in his word, if we don't have the faith to receive them, we won't. So it's time for people who are sick to. To believe that God is the healer. It's time for people that are broke to believe that God will restore your finances. It's time for people who have lost children that are wayward and have fallen away to believe they're coming back. Because God is the restorer of families. He is the breach builder, so to speak. And listen, I'm not anywhere where I want to be with my faith, but God has given me the gift of faith a few times to believe he could heal me from Crohn's disease, later from terminal cancer and a lot of things in between.
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Alex Clark
You had cancer as well? Yes. And you healed that completely with diet?
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Jordan Rubin
Yes. Well, supernaturally and naturally, in 2008. And here's the crazy part, Alex. I wasn't told that I had a 50% chance to live. I was told that if I didn't seek conventional treatments, chemotherapy, a really invasive surgery at the time, and likely radiation, there was a 100% chance I would be dead in 90 days or 100%. So instead of thinking, could I at least have had 95%. I knew that was a testimony in the making, because first of all, how dare somebody say I'm going to be dead in 90 days? And secondly, that doctor never met the God that I serve who has pulled me out of the mire, out of the muck, out of the valley, of the shadow of death, time and time again. And so that is a part of my testimony, believe it or not, it is 17 years ago where I was given that death sentence. And one of my passions, and what we're going to hopefully get to with the biblio diet, is to see people conquer cancer in the name of Jesus.
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Alex Clark
Okay? Obsessed with this. I love this so much. And now there's. Oh, I have so many other questions now for you because that's phenomenal. You are raising six grass fed, raw dairy, homeschooled kids off the grid. Correct. Are you just extreme or you're just raising kids the biblical way?
- [12:12]
Jordan Rubin
I'm raising them off the wall, not off the grid. You know, Alex, I was healed by following God's principles. Raw dairy was a part of it. And I have been consuming raw dairy for 30 years every single day. 30 years. And my children, depending on what age they came into my home, have been doing the same. I have adopted kids of different ages. My biological son was consuming raw milk, starting with breastfeeding and then a 14 ingredient infant formula I made him from raw sheep milk dairy. I got so obsessed with farming and consuming raw dairy and grass fed beef that I started a couple farms myself. But it was all based on this idea that what was healing me at the time I saw this happen almost 30 years ago. I knew that there was a fight against raw milk even then. I knew that raw juices were illegal to buy in health food stores because of an E. Coli outbreak. Supposedly. I knew that factory farming was being controlled by the powers that be and trying to encourage people to farm like they did in the old days was going to come under scrutiny. So I said in 1996, God is healing me. I'm seeing it happen. This was from Crohn's disease. I went from 104 pounds to 185 pounds literally in 40 days, from death to life. And I knew then that I needed to one day grow and raise the world's healthiest foods for me, for my future family, which now I knew I would have one because I often thought I was going to be dead without being married and having kids and for others who would need it. And it's been a fight and a battle, but it is one of the greatest gifts God's given me is to have a vision not just for what quote unquote heals me, but to use that to bring a message of health and hope to others.
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Alex Clark
Have you seen eating a Bible based diet actually heal depression?
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Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. And quickly? Really quickly, yes. That's why the subtitle of the book is so in your face. Because it's the biblio diet, which by the way means book. People think biblio means Bible. Why wouldn't you? The Bible is called the Bible because people used to call it the book or the good book. So the Biblio diet for believers. Absolutely. This is eating by your book, but for others it should be eating by the book because this is the way we were designed to eat and live in our modern environment using those ancient principles. But what's interesting is as we unpack the principles of scripture and now 30 years of experience, and my co author, Dr. Josh Axe has about 15 to 18 years of experience helping people overcome disease. We believe you can live long, master metabolism, reduce pain, fight depression, and conquer cancer with healing secrets from the Bible.
- [15:10]
Alex Clark
Amen. Do you think that this idea of being more natural and using what God has given us as much as we can applies beyond food, like to cleaning products, cookware, even furniture?
- [15:21]
Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. And here's the thing, Alex, where people get hung up. The Bible isn't going to tell you to do 200 pushups and drink raw carrot juice. Woven into scripture are principles. As I mentioned earlier, Job was talking about a time while he was speaking to God. Literally, the longest conversation between a man and God was in Job. Job speaks, then God speaks. And God himself. God the father gave an amazing sermon, more or less telling Job, how dare you question me. Did you create the stars? Did you create the sky? Did you create the firma and the mountains? And did you know where lightning comes from and the stores of thunder? It's. I get chills every time I read it and talk about it. Job was saying, when I was in my prime, the streets were filled with cream and olive oil flowed out of the rock. Why would you describe cream as something good if it causes heart disease and is loaded with bad saturated fat? It makes no sense. Why would the Bible say, if you follow my commandments, you will eat the fat of the land? Why did King Solomon, and this is huge, Alex, who had all the money in the world, all the riches, fame and wisdom? Why would he choose every day to eat red meat and bread and serve it to all of his inner court? Why there's only one reason, because red meat is healthy and bread can be healthy as well. In some instances, it's the type of meat and bread you consume. I always say this two principles in terms of biblical eating. Eat what God created for food and eat food in a form that's healthy for the body.
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Alex Clark
What does that mean?
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Jordan Rubin
What that means is you can take an apple which could be healthy, you can peel it, get rid of the fiber and the nutrients, you can juice it, you can concentrate it, you can pasteurize it, and then you're drinking sugar in a juice box. Right? So you can't argue that an apple was created by God, but not to have wax on the skin grown and sprayed with pesticides, herbicides, fungicides. So you we get caught up in this used to be a food bread and now it's this white stuff that can stay outside for 50 years and not rot or attract insects because even they wouldn't eat it.
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Alex Clark
Do you ever have people playing devil's advocate with you or a naysayer that says, okay, well the reason that people in the Bible only were eating, you know, milk, honey, olive oil and, and bread or whatever is because that's all they had. It doesn't mean that when man invents other things that is just automatically bad. We just have, you know, new things and technology and all of that.
- [18:04]
Jordan Rubin
Well, I think the proof is in the pudding is a decent statement. Really. The statement is the proof in the pudding is how it tastes and our health tastes rotten right now. And I was talking about commercials we see during football games of autoimmune diseases that are gut related that most people hadn't heard of seven years ago. Our health is absolutely poor. I believe in the Bible most everyone was thin and healthy. The reason I know that is because the few instances where someone was overweight. There was a king of Eglin where they said he was fat and Eli, as he got older, was so heavy that he fell back in a chair and broke it. Why would they make a point in the Bible to talk about someone being heavy if it was commonplace? Nowadays you describe somebody as thin being rare. We all talk about going to Disney World and just people watching or going to the mall. It's not difficult to determine that most people in America are in some level of unwellness. I'll say it nicely, and it is not somebody's fault per se. They have bought into the lie that you can eat whatever you want and pay no price for it. Whereas in scripture you alluded to this, it says in Romans 12:1, that we should offer our bodies as a living sacrifice, as our worship, a spiritual act of worship. We talk about eating all we want to eat. Well, Paul mentions that we should buffet our body and make it our slaves, not buffet our body. And buffet means have discipline, right? I will say this. I eat the most delicious, wonderful foods on the planet. Before I got on a plane to come out and see you, I had a raw cream chocolate smoothie that anyone would have loved to eat. But many today would say it has too much fat, it's unpasteurized, it has disease causing pathogens. I consumed that, Alex, when I was the sickest of the sick. If you look at a raw milk warning in the states where it's legal, in California, for example, people with autoimmune disease, people who are susceptible to this, this, this and this, that was me. And the very thing that they told me not to consume helped aid in my healing. So I do believe that for the last decades, we have been backwards. And for once, right now, there's a beacon of light that says, you know what? People are not going to be as sick as their parents and their grandparents. They're tired of losing years, losing loved ones, and we're fighting back. And a lot of what you do here, taking some of the bullets for us, is an effort to save lives. Because I can't tell you how many people have heard the truth. And like the Bible says, when it comes to the truth about health, it can set somebody free and their future generations.
- [20:58]
Alex Clark
There's a lot of people that are, you know, doctors, nutritionists, dietitians on social media that hear what we talk about on this show or just the Maha movement in general, and really come after the Maha movement and say, this is ridiculous. These are influencers. Nobody's trusting the experts. They're sewing division. This is a terrible idea. And I'm like, okay, well, what are your ideas? You've been in the conventional medicine space for how many decades, right? Because they love to. To hold that over someone's head like mine, which I'm just asking questions. I've never said I was an expert. I'm interviewing you or Josh a. Or whoever. And I'm like, like, I'm just asking questions of my guest number one. But two, for you that to say like, well, this is getting nowhere. Maha movement is a joke. It's useless. What have your principles and, and your guidelines helped achieve? Because we are exactly what you said, the sickest we've ever been. The chronic disease crisis is the worst We've ever been. What are your ideas to improve it then? And they don't have any. All they want to do is say that we're wrong. I'm like, we are a a backlash to what has clearly been bad advice for decades. And people are tired of being sick and tired.
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Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. And the movement is only enlarged from a closet small movement. The past decade, I could tell you multiple instances where I was in a room at a dinner, at an event with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. With other friends of ours who have talked about this message, which is become educated. Notice RFK Jr doesn't say don't get vaccinated. He doesn't. His detractors would say that he's anti this, he's pro that. What RFK Jr. Is doing as secretary of HHS is saying we should not just line up like sheep to get every injection, to get every antibiotic, to consume every ultra processed garbage food. No. Learn for yourself. I have not immunized my children, but it's not because someone told me not to. I read, I learned, I understood. And I myself may have been vaccine injured because I took one immunization when I was 16. Point being, I've learned from experience, I've learned from mistakes, and I have read and spoken to experts. So people say raw milk is bad. Vaccines are good. Secretary Kennedy isn't saying raw milk is universally good for everyone and vaccines are universally bad. He's saying that it is our responsibility as human beings to learn and become educated. And the government should help, right? It shouldn't force. The government shouldn't tell doctors what to prescribe or what is bad. We should have our own choices. And if I can buy raw meat and cook it, why can't I buy raw milk and decide to cook it if I wanted to, or drink it as God created it? Because if God wanted milk to be pasteurized, he would have put a pasteurization chamber on the udder of a cow, goat or sheep.
- [24:05]
Alex Clark
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Jordan Rubin
What we talked about off the air is just a drop in the bucket of what I was willing to do for my son. But I believe that the most important thing I can be is a child of God, a husband of my wife Nikki, and a parent to my six children. And part of what I do is foster their dreams. And in this case, part of my dream and my son's was for him to play college football. But because of when he started, we were still coming out of our wokeness, which we were very asleep. I can promise you that he wasn't able to play college football and not receive immunizations and not live in a co ed dorm and not eat the total garbage that is the meal plan. And so in order to accomplish that, what we needed to do was have a residence, in this case in Birmingham, Alabama. And we don't lie. So we weren't going to get some apartment that he lived in and say it was a residence. So our family now goes back and forth between Nashville, Tennessee and Birmingham, Alabama. But what was interesting, Alex, they said, which vaccine does he want to be exempt from? And our answer couldn't really be, where do you start? Because he has none. He doesn't have Covid, he doesn't have mmr, he doesn't have any of them. Now, mind you, I am not sitting here today telling everybody that every vaccine is bad, every immunization is bad, and there's never gonna be an incidence of a disease that a vaccine could protect against. All I'm saying is I've chosen with my rights as a parent, and now my adult child has chosen to continue that, to. To opt out of immunizations and vaccinations the same way. My son's never eaten fast food and he's never had a medicine. We don't have an aspirin in the house. We don't have any over the counter. Anything that's just been our choice. God has healed me naturally and supernaturally. I've seen it happen from following his principles that you would call natural. And we go to great lengths to protect our family. And in this case, it wasn't just us telling our son, don't eat the meal plan because it's ultra processed. Don't live in a co ed dorm because it may compromise your beliefs. He learned, owns it and made the decision. And he's as staunch as I am about the way he eats and the way he lives. But it is something we're proud of, that we're giving our kids what we believe as parents as the right to be a parent, what we think will give them the best chance to succeed, live long and live a healthy life. And I think his performance is better. And he's actually having an influence on some of his teammates.
- [28:55]
Alex Clark
Oh, good.
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Jordan Rubin
We're having an influence on some of the coaches, and it's been a blessing, but it was not easy. And most people don't know this, but the university my son goes to, the Dr. Fauci replacement, came out of there as a professor, so this was a difficult task, but we made a family decision not only to allow him to pursue his dream, but to Keep our lower four children, meaning our four youngest together, as long as we could, selfishly and unselfishly.
- [29:23]
Alex Clark
I think it's such an important, you know, real life experience to share of that. As Christians, we're called to look differently than the world. And I think that also applies to how we eat. And, you know, when we talk about how we live, I mean, that could mean a myriad of things. But that example and just willing to do the hard thing, which I can't imagine how stressful that is, driving three hours back and forth all the time and all that. Like, like. And you said off the air to me, you know, this is just a short season and I know this is really frustrating right now, but like, we're doing this right now because we need to do it. I just think, you know, because a lot of parents will say that, like, well, I'm living in the state and my state says my kids, you know, cannot go to public school unless they're vaccinated. I'm like, you need to move. But nobody likes these hard, these answers because it means they're going to have to do hard things. I think. And I just think that sometimes we're going to be called to live differently and sometimes that's going to be inconvenient. It's not going to be easy. And I think hearing encouragement from other real parents of just different things that you guys have had to kind of figure out can be helpful and encouraging that there's a lot of parents out here that are willing to do hard things so that you guys can keep your integrity and keep living the life that you feel like God intended you to live.
- [30:33]
Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. And there's more of a story behind every decision someone makes. And in our case, my son actually followed his high school coach to college when his high school coach was hired to at that level. But it was because we knew his beliefs. My son played for Coach Dilfer. His name's Trent Dilfer. He's a Super bowl winning quarterback during the pandemic. And Coach Dilfer believed that the families had the freedom to make decisions on healthcare. When other schools were saying, you need to be vaccinated, you need to wear a mask all the time, you can't practice this time. It was a good experience. And we have understood that without sacrifice, you're not going to get to the level that God called you to, no matter what it is. And this is just an example. And we also believe when you're obedient to God, other things tend to fall into place. You face opposition but you often have these other unintended miracles that come into play. And we knew it was an important decision. We always like to say that where you spend your college years, you could meet your spouse, you are going to meet your core friends, you're going to form your identity. So it was more than just, hey, we don't want our son to get a vaccine or to eat Mac and cheese at the cafeteria. We really thought and prayed more into it. But my wife Nikki and I have never been afraid to make bold big moves, Even if many, including our friends and family, think we're nuts.
- [32:04]
Alex Clark
What do you think it does to a person spiritually and emotionally when they consistently eat food that is disconnected from how God designed it?
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Jordan Rubin
Well, first of all, I think food is used as a medication for stress. When you think about it, ice cream, chips, and cookies are what we reward ourselves with when something good happens. You know, you get a raise or a some type of benefit. I'm gonna go for the cookies and the crackers and the ice cream to celebrate. But then when you're in the dumps, when you get fired, you go to the same thing, which is ice cream. Cookies, crackers. And again, by the way, I make amazing ice cream. We buy some ice cream that's organic and regenerative, et cetera. And my daughter made the most amazing cookies that are arguably healthy. So I'm not saying never eat crackers, cookies, and ice cream, but the kinds that we often use to medicate our stress are pretty rough.
- [32:58]
Alex Clark
Well, I always tell people that, they're like, so what am I supposed to eat? I'm never supposed to have any fun. My kids are never supposed to have cake and ice cream at a birthday. And I'm like, I eat all of those things. I love ice cream. Ice cream can be a health food. It depends on how it's made. You can make ice cream to be nourishing.
- [33:15]
Jordan Rubin
Yes, absolutely. So I believe that when you're consistently eating something that is not aligned to your body, a, it's going to disrupt all kinds of functions and structures of your system. But I think deep down today, people know that they're eating junk food. Nobody goes into a fast food restaurant thinking that the burger, fries, and coke is going to nourish me. People know intuitively, even I'll say, like, young men who are probably the worst because they think their bodies are indestructible. Think of, like, a young athlete who is not enlightened to the truth about health. You see NBA players saying they live on candy, and yet they're ripped and chiseled and can jump 40 inches. That catches up with you. They all know that it's unhealthy and I think part of it. Alex, you're touching on something deeper. What you eat says a lot about you. It isn't simply that what you eat is who you become tomorrow. It says a lot about you. Now, granted, this country is so backwards that there are people that might be listening who can't afford to eat anything other than fast food. And that stinks because the government subsidizes the horrific backwards agricultural system to produce corn, soy, genetically modified and all of these downstream products. So if someone's listening and afford to eat anything other than fast food, please don't feel condemnation, but I'm talking to someone who can afford to buy any of the tens of thousands of items in a grocery store and yet chooses muffins that have 27 ingredients, including hydrogenated oils, including artificial sweeteners, including unbleached and enriched flowers, or worse, bleached and enriched flours. They had a choice and they made the wrong one. And, and people are going to see this. I've been saying this for 30 years. And finally, I'm not considered the outlier, or at least the only one.
- [35:14]
Alex Clark
Well, and the only thing I'll disagree on a little bit is the idea that some people feel like, well, the only thing I can afford is fast food. I think maybe 10, 15 years ago that might have been the case. I think fast food is so expensive.
- [35:25]
Jordan Rubin
You know, you're right, Alex, I sit corrected.
- [35:27]
Alex Clark
I, I mean, because if they go to. And, and by the way, and I try to say this in as many episodes as I can because people get really hung up on this that are, that are ball a budget, which I, I understand is that it doesn't have to be organic or grass fed if what you can afford is just ground beef, eggs, chicken, sardines. Yeah, canned sardines, which I am now. I'm a huge tin fish person. I love tin fish. But like, if that is what you can afford, you can get that at Walmart, Aldi, even Dollar General now is selling produce and some, some of, you know, limited things in certain areas, but I actually think that those real food items, even if they're not organic, even if it's not grass fed, if that's what you can get, I think that's cheaper now than going to Chick Fil A.
- [36:12]
Jordan Rubin
It is. I was trying to appeal to what people's excuses are. Yeah, because you're right. Fast food prices have crept up like crazy. And I believe a truly nutritious meal can oftentimes be consumed and prepared for 75 or even half of what a fast food meal is. When you add and add and add all the goodies.
- [36:34]
Alex Clark
Right.
- [36:34]
Jordan Rubin
Not everyone's buying 29 cent hamburgers anymore.
- [36:37]
Alex Clark
I think the main thing when you are shopping for real groceries versus fast food, I think the main thing that you're paying with is actually your time and convenience. So when we're talking about people that are really, really strictly on a budget and, and times are really tough, I think of like a single mom for example. Now she has to decide do I have with with you know, working crazy hours and trying to raise kids and picking them up from school and all the things that she's got going on. Do I have the time to make a home cook meal versus go through the drive thru. And maybe in a given day or moment it is a better thing for her to just go through a drive through, you know, time wise. But I think we're all going to end up paying at some point just with your health later. Yeah, but I understand those moments when people are really in a crazy crunch, especially with kids. And so they, they, I think they, it may not even be the money, but then it becomes time.
- [37:26]
Jordan Rubin
Absolutely, totally agree. I, I've said this many times as a cliche, but you're going to either pay the, the farmer more now or the doctor more later. And the doctor gets paid much more later. We might not see it because someone who's undergoing cancer treatments, they don't necessarily look at the insurance bill of $560,000. They know what their copay is. They know that they might have to pay themselves 20,000 out of pocket. People are not looking and seeing that in the hospital. A single aspirin or ibuprofen is billed 9 to $12 to your insurance. An IV can be $600. And I'm talking about an IV of saline like salt water. Again, we are so backwards. And I want to be very clear because you corrected me and you're right. Eating healthy doesn't have to be for the elite, although it is for the enlightened. And anyone who's listening today can consider themselves enlightened. Because as soon as we share the message and someone hears that vaccines may not be necessary in the number and frequency that they're recommended in infants and childhood. Raw dairy may not be harmful. Fat may not be bad for you. Red meat may not cause heart disease. And I would argue that red meat could be the most important superfood the Bible says it is. Dairy could be one of the most nourishing foods on the planet. And fat could be the number one micronutrient to build healthy hormones, healthy immune systems, and healthy cells.
- [39:03]
Alex Clark
Let's talk about bread. Because there's a lot of different narratives on social media from people that are in health and wellness about bread. Is it bad? Is it good? Does it have to be freshly milled? Does it just have to be gluten free? Is sourdough really the end all be all? You say God made bread. Bread is amazing. What we have done to bread as human beings, and especially Americans, is what ruined it.
- [39:27]
Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. Now, I want to be really clear. The biblio diet is not telling people that any bread is good, any dairy is good, any beef is good. But we do give a hierarchy of what is best, and then maybe what is not so good. And when it comes to bread, we have to understand that if we are Christians, which means we are followers of Christ, and he was referred to as the bread of life, it can't be bad. In fact, Alex, bread was so important that the word bread and food are used interchangeably as synonyms in the Bible. Now you pointed something out. Is sourdough the end all be all? And I believe that a whole grain sourdough is likely the best bread you can consume. It is gut friendly, it supports your immune system. It's great for your skin, it's good for your heart, it's good for energy. But I also want to point out that some people have severely damaged digestive tracts or they have an autoimmune disease, or they are sensitive or allergic to certain compounds in wheat that has been overly hybridized. I know I'm throwing out a lot of words there. In some instances, you need to be without grains to heal your gut, to eventually add them back. However, for the average person listening today, there are some grains that can be very healthy as long as you prepare them the right way or know how to shop for them.
- [40:56]
Alex Clark
All right, so let's get into that because I don't understand how somebody who was 100% death ridden, had Crohn's disease, is now eating bread. So how did you do it? What were you doing to the wheat or to the bread that made it so you were able to enjoy it?
- [41:10]
Jordan Rubin
I'll give you a little secret, Alex. I was bedridden eating bread while I was recovering. Not just eating bread now, but it was only whole grain heirloom sourdough. And back then, it was Difficult to find. It was a grain called kamut. There was another grain called spelt. Spelt's mentioned in the Bible. Kamut is sort of an Egyptian version of wheat. And I was eating traditional sourdough bread with butter while I was recovering from Crohn's disease. And mind you, prior to that I had been on all kinds of diets. A raw vegan diet, a macrobiotic diet, an all animal diet. I tried back in the day what would now be called low fodmaps. It wasn't called that back then. Nothing worked until I added these real foods based on the Bible. And bread was not my main staple. But it was a part of a healthy diet. And today you can get traditional whole grain sourdough from local farms. You can order it through the mail. You can get it at health food groceries, specialty stores, and in some cases Costco.
- [42:18]
Alex Clark
What is the Costco sourdough bread that you approve of?
- [42:21]
Jordan Rubin
It depends on where you are and sometimes they're what you would call a regional in and out. But if you find a sourdough bread that is listed with a whole grain and then you can see a sourdough starter or, or sea salt and probiotic cultures, it is generally healthy. Now, if you're someone who's super sensitive, Alex, there has been studies on sourdough bread being tolerated by people with celiac disease because it was fermented or leavened for two to three days. Because when the sour leavening process takes place, fermentation, the gluten, actually barley, is broken down into amino acids that become less harmful. And you can actually consume a sourdough, wheat, rye or barley and it have virtually no gluten in it. Now, am I telling everyone with celiac to go to the local grocery store and get whatever's labeled as sourdough? No. But once you understand how to shop for this bread or make it, and I would say if somebody's super sensitive, make your own. There. It's the coolest thing. Now everybody's talking about making sourdough. Give it a try. It'll connect you to your food. And it's the way that people have eaten bread for thousands of years. My wife and I went to Greece for our 25th wedding anniversary and sat through an old school sourdough making class at a olive orchard. It was the coolest thing. And they didn't say this was a super health fad. They said that this is how our family has been making bread for generations.
- [43:55]
Alex Clark
Now, if you are interested in what Jordan is saying, I recommend going and listening to my episode with Dr. Bill Schindler, who kind of gets into the fermentation and like the correct way to make sourdough, especially if you're struggling with making sourdough. That being said, what is your opinion on milling your own flour?
- [44:11]
Jordan Rubin
I have never done it. I know people that believe it's the best thing you can do because of rancidity of fats, etc. I think personally, again, with this time value of money, I've made the decision to purchase bread or make it from flour where I trusted the source. Okay, in a perfect world, would it be cool to mill your own wheat? Yes. But I believe, Alex, the source of the grain is more important than who mills it and when. But I also don't believe you should mill your grain and let it sit out, out and deteriorate over time, unrefrigerated or unfrozen. So I think the bread baking movement, it's awesome, partially because there's something special about eating something that you made and people have lost that connection. Now I've taken it a step further. I've invested much of my time and resources into farming, regenerative farming. And now I'm able to eat something or drink something that came from a seed that I planted. And for me, that's one of the greatest privileges of my life. Second to that is making something for you or your family, quote, unquote, from scratch and knowing that it is perfectly healthy and having a role in making it that way. Yeah, it's amazing. And I know people don't celebrate homemakers, whatever you want to call it, everything's bad these days. You got to be so careful calling somebody a housewife or calling. But if you're a stay at home mom and you've chosen to be a source of health and nutrition for your family, and you are preparing healthy meals so your kids can thrive now and when they're older. I think that's on par with a farmer and a teacher. And notice those are not some of the most highly paid positions, but stay at home mom, farmer, and teacher. Show me a society where those three roles are celebrated and I'll show you a society that's healthy and whole.
- [46:17]
Alex Clark
One of my friends wanted to treat herself on a budget, so she booked a $12 spa treatment off Groupon. The place was in a strip mall between a vape shop and a taxidermy school. They scrubbed her legs with what she's pretty sure was gravel and olive oil from a Costco sample tray. She left with smoother skin and also a mild concussion. I said hey, you don't need industrial exfoliation, you just need Primally Pures Coffee body polish. This isn't some sticky sludge you find in a clearance bin. This is handcrafted small batch sorcery made from coffee grounds, organic cane, sugar, coconut oil, shea butter and orange essential oil. All from real farms, not a lab. It buffs, it softens, it makes you smell like you've achieved inner peace and excellent time management. It's energizing without the caffeine crash like being gently nudged awake by a purple haired barista stuff. Plus it comes in compostable packaging. If you're thinking about switching to cleaner non toxic skincare, check out the thousands of five star reviews on Primally pure dot com. Once you're ready to scrub, use code Alex Clark for 15 off. That's primly pure.com code Alex Clark. You meet some interesting people in California. I know everyone thinks it's the conservatives who are all into the woo woo health stuff, but we were the last people to care about this stuff. I once met a woman in Topanga Canyon who told me she could smell aluminum in people's armpits. I thought she was insane until I learned how toxic conventional deodorant was and that I was basically walking around like a battery. That's when I found Zebra deodorant. Zebra makes deodorant, floss and toothpaste tablets that aren't full of chemicals that you need a hazmat team to pronounce. Everything smells amazing or smells like nothing depending on your level of paranoia. Paraben free, aluminum free, microplastic free, BS free. You could basically live off this stuff in a bunker and emerge cleaner than the day you were born.
- [47:56]
Jordan Rubin
So slimy.
- [47:58]
Alex Clark
Zebra is what happens when a personal care company decides not to poison you for sport. And that's refreshing. Like their peppermint floss. Go to yayzebra.com use code Alex for 10 off. That's yayzebra.com and code Alex for 10 off. You've talked about extensively how the reason why so many people cannot handle dairy or they think they can't is because they are consuming conventional milk, which is typically what you see in grocery stores. And it is A1 milk that if we started consuming raw or pasteurized A2 milk it would be a lot better for us. What is the game changing difference between a 1 and a 2 milk?
- [48:37]
Jordan Rubin
Well, let me say this. There was a very provocative book written I believe in 1999 by scientist Dr. Keith Woodford in New Zealand called the Devil in the Milk. Now that's a title that would cause you to either buy it or stay away from it. But it's memorable.
- [48:53]
Alex Clark
Love the title. That is a very Alex Clark title.
- [48:56]
Jordan Rubin
And in the book book he discusses a genetic mutation for modern day dairy. Think the Chick Fil a cow, right? The Chick Fil a cow is a Holstein or a Holstein Friesian breed. And it's what we've come to know as dairy cows in the US they produce a lot of milk. They can tolerate growth hormones and antibiotics and all kinds of confined feeding. That is horrible. And they produce an ungodly amount of milk a day to feed probably six calves when they only have one. It also contains a 1 beta casein, but you'll now never forget it as the Devil in the milk. But if that doesn't sell you on why A1 is bad. Mother's milk only has A2 beta casein. No A1 dairy, goat's milk, sheep's milk, water buffalo milk, and almost every mammal except for certain cows produce only a 2 beta casein. It is natural for your body. You started out with it as you were breastfed. And as soon as you introduce A one beta casein, it acts like an opioid, stimulating your gut, overstimulating your brain. And Dr. Woodford found that the nations of the world that consumed more, quote unquote, A1 milk versus A2 milk had a greater risk of diabetes, heart disease, as well as childhood and adult neurological diseases. Now, I am not saying epidemiological research is absolutely conclusive, but if mother's milk was created to have only a 2 dairy, and I would say that in air quotes, because there's a lot more to dairy than just beta casein. And if the original livestock that came from the Middle East, India and Africa are predominantly A two gene carrying livestock, why should we do well on something that's foreign to the body? In fact, if someone thinks gluten is an issue, I would say that a 1 dairy could be 13 times more dangerous. That's how many receptor sites are in your gut that fire off when you consume gluten and you are someone who has been diagnosed with celiac disease or when you consume a 1 beta casein, it is a challenge. It causes something called BCM7 beta casemorphine 7 and you heard it, morphine. And it is an opioid agonist or stimulator. And I have spent the last 20 years studying a2 dairy. In fact, Alex, I built built a 1000 a2 cow dairy in between other gigs because I wanted the world, at least the US to consume dairy that was free of that devil in the milk.
- [51:51]
Alex Clark
Is your farm open to the public?
- [51:53]
Jordan Rubin
It is for visiting. We don't do dairy anymore. We primarily grow mushrooms and we grow all kinds of fruit trees. And we have something called healing leaves that we talk about in the biblio diet, which God shared with me as a revelation to fight cancer. But yes, our farms in Missouri and Tennessee are open to the public. If we invited everyone who's listening, that might be a little much for the water buffalo, chickens, ducks, turkeys, goat, sheep, donkeys, et cetera. But yes, not only are we open, but both of our farms are teaching farms. One of them is a regenerative organic learning center where we train other farmers on how to practice regenerative agriculture principles.
- [52:34]
Alex Clark
Awesome.
- [52:34]
Jordan Rubin
We have all kinds of events. It's. It's so much fun and it's almost sad how much fun it is because people come to our farm and say, I've never seen how something that I eat is grown. They were grown up in a concrete jungle. They've never picked and eaten anything. They never knew what a watermelon plant looks like. They've never seen a baby soursop tree or any soursop tree at all. So we like to, to offer the exotic for sort of the wow factor. But one of my greatest passions in life is as a steward of the land to help create not only healthy soil, but see the food that it's grown in or the animals that are raised within it provide the world's healthiest, nutrient dense food on the planet. So we're really what you would call a research farm group, etc. We call it Heal the Planet farms. But we're trying to prove that you can farm God's way and feed the planet with much less acres than you think and do it in a way that is completely nourishing this idea that regenerative agriculture can't be scaled. I disagree.
- [53:47]
Alex Clark
Okay, let's talk about why you disagree. Because I just did an episode with glyphosate Girl and we were talking about glyphosate and, and she agrees that regenerative farming can be done to scale. It's not gonna. You can't do it over. There's so many things that have to be done for us to be able to get to that point she talked about. Then you have a lot of traditional ag people in the comments, like, this is insane. They have no idea what they're talking about. This is impossible. Now, I know it's possible. I've talked to people like Joel Salatin, Will Harris yourself like that, say this is possible. And I'm not using pesticides. So what are you doing to keep bugs and predators and stuff away from your food?
- [54:24]
Jordan Rubin
So many things. And we've learned a couple of, of cool, I'll say their tricks, Alex, but they literally could be groundbreaking research if we did multiple studies on them. But we have been able to avoid deworming and medicating our animals by grazing them in the woods and feeding them fruit tree leaves, which are natural anti parasitics by the way, for animals and humans. And it makes sense because God says in his word twice that the leaves are for healing or the leaves are for the healing of the nations. And guess what else we've been able to do do? We don't have to cut down trees in order to raise livestock because we're grazing them in the woods. They're sort of clearing some things out, allowing some sunlight, and they make the forest healthier. So that's one really cool thing we've done. In terms of plants, we like perennial plants. We like trees. A perennial is something you plant once and it produces for 10, 20, 30, 50 or 100 years. So think of an apple tree as a perennial. An annual plant is kale or a carrot or spinach. You plant it, you harvest it, you eat it, you till the ground again and start the whole process over, which is a bit disruptive to our environment, even in an organic system. So when we have fruit trees, we have actually combined multiple species together in a very tight and close acreage, which most people say not to do. And we have found that the multiple species of plants together, instead of all blueberries, all strawberries, all apples, we think that each plant is actually transferring cellular defenses to their close neighbors who have now become family through the root system to keep pests from taking a toll on the plant. So. So on our farms we don't spray even organically approved pesticides, which there are herbicides or fungicides. We are seeing our animals thrive and plants thrive the way God intended. After all, Alex, if you're driving anywhere, well, maybe not here, but if you're driving by any kind of forest, God doesn't plant monocrops. You could count if you knew what different plants were. Probably 20 or 50 species in any patch of forest. And they're all together in a certain order. And we tried to emulate that with what we call our regenerative food forest.
- [56:52]
Alex Clark
So you don't Use vinegar or anything?
- [56:54]
Jordan Rubin
No, we don't. However, we are using vinegar to make sure that we can plant our new blackberries because they're really, really small. We haven't done it yet, but we're thinking about doing that to keep some of these, the quote unquote weeds out. But no, we don't use anything right now.
- [57:09]
Alex Clark
What is your response to studies that say red meat is bad for us in high amounts and it really should be largely avoided?
- [57:16]
Jordan Rubin
I don't believe that the research was done in a way that would restrict other variables. And I've said this for a very long time because the fight against red meat has been consistent, it's been strong, and it hasn't really led up to the fact that, that we have less cows today in America than we did 10 years ago. And that's why some meat prices are going up. Because people now are being enlightened that red meat contains vitamins, minerals, amino acids. It's like a sports nutrition shelf at a store. Creatine, glutamine, carnosine, carnitine, iron, B12, B6, really good sources of protein. It's amazing. And let me start by saying that the Bible calls red meat, if not the superfood, a superfood. And I say that Alex, because anytime anyone could afford it or had the means, they consumed red meat. When the angel of the Lord came to Abraham, Abraham had Sarah go kill the fatted calf. When the prodigal son returned, as Jesus was explaining and telling the story to his disciples, when he came back, they killed the fatted calf. The fatted calf was a grass fed choice bull that was probably four to six years old, delicious and nutritious and believe it or not, even boosted hormones because there was a little bit of testosterone in there to boot. I said earlier, King Solomon chose to eat red meat every day. According to first Kings, that was his daily provisions. And I could go on and on. Red meat is a superfood. And what I say about the research is they did not separate red meat eaters from fast food, red meat eaters with white bread, ultra processed seed oils and all the other junk. Most people in large groups with an epidemiologic study, they would also be likely smoking, not exercising, not. Not someone who is making concerted steps towards their health. So if you say I'm going to study meat eaters, ten years ago, the average meat eater was someone who ate anything and everything they wanted to, didn't exercise, maybe didn't care about their health. And then you look at a vegetarian They've at least made one conscious choice. Right. They chose to eat a certain diet. I'm guessing they would be more likely to choose exercise. They'd be more likely to choose stress reducing efforts. Right. So I think it's very difficult unless you're going to absolutely study someone eating only meat versus someone eating a standard American diet versus someone eating a plant based diet. Now, believe it or not, that has been done. There was an explorer in the early 1900s named Wilhelmer Stefansson. He lived with the Inuit. Inuit, or the Eskimos ate only meat. Noticed that the Eskimos or The Inuit had 0 trace of heart disease, 0 trace of cancer. And this was at a time when cancer and heart disease was rising in America. He came back, published his findings and under the care of Harvard scientists ate only red meat for an entire year. They told him it would kill him. And he ended up testing equal to or greater in all of his biomarkers.
- [60:49]
Alex Clark
Oh my.
- [60:49]
Jordan Rubin
One year.
- [60:50]
Alex Clark
Oh my gosh. What about people that say that red meat causes heart disease?
- [60:54]
Jordan Rubin
I believe red meat helps cardiovascular function for many reasons. I mentioned a few moments ago L carnitine, which is an amino acid that is great for the heart, not to mention important minerals and B vitamins and even the fat in red meat. Now I prefer pasture raised, grass fed, organic, etc. Even sources of fat in red meat meat help your heart or cardiovascular health. I think it is total nonsense. Now if you combine red meat with enriched, unbleached or bleached flour and all kinds of chemicals you would find in the special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame seed bun where the only thing healthy is the sesame seeds. I'm dating myself with an old fast food commercial jingle. But red meat has not been isolated and proven to cause ill health at all. And I think those that have avoided it it for the last 20 or 30 years are paying for it with ill health. Yeah, we're seeing people today get excited about eating red meat and when, when you say, why have you been avoiding it? Because my doctor told me, because they said it was bad. Meanwhile they eat. Have you seen someone, Alex, who eats a steak or a burger for the first time after maybe 10 or 15 years avoiding it? Oh yeah, it's pretty awful. Awesome.
- [62:16]
Alex Clark
Yeah, I've seen these. It's like they're in love in these. Like I was vegan and then I couldn't resist anymore. So I had a burger or a piece of salmon or something and it was. It's like their life has changed Forever.
- [62:26]
Jordan Rubin
Yes. I think, and I've said this for a very long time, red meat is far more nutritious than white meat poultry. And people think white meat chicken is healthy because there's less fat in it. Well, frankly, there is some fat in it. And if I were going to eat poultry, which I do from time to time, I like the dark meat for health purposes. I like a bone broth even more. I think red meat meat is, if not the healthiest neck and neck with a fatty wild fish that is from waters where they're uncontaminated, which is kind of hard to have these days. But when you're looking at a pasture raised animal where you see everything they're eating, you know how the pastures are managed and planted. You mentioned two luminaries in regenerative farming, both friends of mine, Joel Salatin and Will Harris. Their animals are healthy, our animals are healthy. And what they're doing is they are taking indigestible plant food because we can't live on grass, we can't digest it. They're doing the work for us. And if you're eating a chicken egg or a duck egg, if you're eating meat from a cow, goat, sheep or water buffalo or their dairy, they are taking indigestible plant food and making it body ready and nutritious for us. People say milk is like glue, it's white mucus. And I mean, you've heard all white death. We used to call milk white gold or white lightning. And when I was getting well, it was illegal to sell, sometimes illegal to buy. And I gotta tell you, in the throes of my Crohn's disease, I desperately sought after raw dairy. And I lived in this little motorhome and I had just a cooler with ice in it. And when I went to the few places that sold raw dairy, if they were out that day, I was devastated. I watched as a diet that included red meat bread, now again, whole grain sourdough bread and dairy healed my body from a two year illness where doctor after doctor said, you have the worst case scenario of Crohn's disease we've ever seen. I watched myself gain weight, transform even in my mind, my emotions. After 69 medical experts failed, the Bible succeeded and God's promise was true.
- [64:52]
Alex Clark
Let me explain something to you. The chemicals under your sink, you're basically running a low budget chemical weapons lab in your home. I opened a conventional bottle of all purpose cleaner once and had a vision of Nancy Pelosi r a horse through a cloud of Febreze I said no more. I switched to Branch Basics and let me tell you, it's the first time I've cleaned my bathroom and not gotten a migraine, a rash or a nosebleed that felt CIA related. They sent me the premium starter kit and this stuff is like magic. It's one concentrate that turns into everything glass cleaner, laundry detergent, produce, wash, maybe even a vaccine if things go south again. Completely joking. Completely joking. But it is an excellent stain remover. I already had to use it on some carpet in my new place where Mochi peed. He's never peed on any carpet before, but I guess he couldn't figure out where his pee pad was. Was. We'll get there. There's no fragrance, no endocrine disruptors, no weird industrial sludge. Just plant and mineral based ingredients that clean your house without turning it into Chernobyl. And the best part? It actually works. I clean my counters with it. I clean my shoes with it. You can even wash your produce or use it as windshield wiper fluid. This stuff is worth every penny. Go to branch basics.com use code ALEX15 for 15 off your premium starter kit. That's branch basics.com code ALEX15 for 15%.
- [65:59]
Jordan Rubin
Off.
- [66:01]
Alex Clark
I've heard several estheticians recently recommend only washing your face with purified filtered water. As in take a water bottle or something if you don't have a water system in your house and use that on cotton rounds instead of tap water. Honestly, it makes sense. Another helpful skin tip is to use non toxic skincare and makeup. That's why I love Adele Natural Cosmetics. They're a family run, holistic, handcrafted, toxin free skincare and cosmetics company made in the usa. Transparency is everything. Anything. They avoid unpronounceable chemicals, no nanoparticles, no petroleum based fillers, just pure nourishing ingredients that you can trust whether you're detoxing from sunburn, salt, sweat or just your everyday shower. Their gentle cleansers, calming creams and light moisturizers are like a spa getaway in every jar. They do not just stop at skincare either. Adele's non toxic makeup from lipstick to foundation to eyeshadow is formulated cleanly backed by EWG Hazard scores of only one across popular shades like cozy gray and BlackBerry fan favorites the Lotion Bar Rich moisturizing goodness they've got the face facial stick soothes sensitive or acne prone skin without clogging pores. Real results. Natural ingredients, less eczema, reduced redness, calmer healthier skin blessed by another season of growth through God's guidance. Adele is dedicated to serving you with integrity and love. Use code alex@adelenaturalcosmetics.com for 25 off that first order. That's adele naturalcosmetics.com code alex I've heard Adele advice that says that vegetables are overrated or even harmful due to anti nutrients. From your biblical lens, where do plants fit in the picture?
- [67:31]
Jordan Rubin
I think plants are very important to your diet. However, I do believe that people are consuming more plants and avoiding certain things like meat, dairy, eggs, etc in the vein that three salads a day is going to make you healthy, does that make sense? I think a plant correction within the health conscious is in order and I do know there are plant toxins. My answer to that is consume fruits and vegetables with less plant toxins or find a way as our ancestors and indigenous people always have, to moderate or lessen those toxins. We've all heard about pressure cooking beans for example, fermentation, sprouting or in some cases. I don't believe raw broccoli is really good for people. Or cauliflower.
- [68:23]
Alex Clark
Yeah, Goku told me to stop eating raw vegetables. Was Dr. Josh Axe well, Josh believes.
- [68:29]
Jordan Rubin
As many in traditional Chinese medicine, et cetera, that consuming a lot of raw vegetables is overly cooling to the body and difficult to digest. Whereas some raw food vegans say that eating eating cooked vegetables are difficult to digest because there's enzymes. I would differ in Josh's opinion slightly. I think some vegetables are great to be eaten raw. I think many should be cooked. That would reduce some of the anti nutrients. I think choosing fruits can be easier on your body and your gut than vegetables. And it's interesting Alex, part of the problem with plants is that our definitions are wrong. Nobody, including veggie tails knows the difference between a fruit and a vegetable. So if you're wanting to eat vegetables I would tell you that squash is a fruit. Yellow squash, zucchini, not genetically modified but zucchini that is non GMO summer squash, winter squash, peppers are arguably a fruit. Tomatoes are a fruit. So I think sometimes we need to understand what are the quote unquote quote lower toxicity fruits and vegetables in order to choose those. But here's what I will say. This idea that plant defense chemicals are bad. I disagree with it because in the Biblio diet I write about a revelation that I received in 2019 where God told me that the answer for cancer and other incurable diseases is found in fruit tree leaves. And Alex, I read it a thousand times. Ezekiel 47:12 says the fruit will be for food and the leaves for healing. Many authors of books like the Genesis Diet or Back to the Garden would say that that verse means we should eat spinach and kale, etc. No, it doesn't. That verse talks about fruit tree leaves lining the river, producing fruit that should be for our food. Food and its leaves for healing. And having read the Bible all these years and now being a farmer, how is this hidden in plain sight? I don't know. But I believe that the defense chemicals in certain plants, like polyphenols, are absolutely powerful for our health. And in fact, Revelation 22. 2. Revelation 22 is the last book in the Bible. Verse 2 says, the leaves of the trees are for the healing of the nations. All of us who have read the Bible have either read it, skipped over it, sort of had it subconsciously in there, but for some reason, me and so many others have not thought about the physical application. So what people will learn about in the chapter called Healing Leaves in the Biblio Diet is that I have for the last six years, made a tea, or what you'd call a tea, from discarded fruit tree leaves, what the world calls trash or prunings. And I have shared it with dozens of people and had miraculous testimonies, including the healing of cancer. And this is a biblical health secret that I never wrote about in the Maker's Diet or the Great Physician's Prescription. I'd written all these biblical health books, but I never understood this revelation until today.
- [71:47]
Alex Clark
I need you to use your farm and I need you to start making a tea that we can purchase online.
- [71:54]
Jordan Rubin
Deal. For now, I'm giving away a free chapter that people can sort of buy some leaves on their own. Find some leaves. I had to call orchards and ask this mango guy if I could buy his leaves. And he did a double take because he said, you know, we kind of compost those or throw those away. But I have made a decision in many cases. I hope in the future it'll be all cases. When God speaks to me from his word, I'm going to do it. So I didn't just start drinking this healing leaves tea six years ago. I also planted over 600,000 fruit trees on both of our farms because I knew someday someone like you was going to ask exactly what you just did. So, Alex, I may not have known it at the time, but I was buying all this fruit from these different exotic places and eating it and spitting out the seeds and planting those trees for you and your future listeners and viewers. So maybe we can get people healthy together. And best of all, God will gain all the glory. Because I see a time where instead of drinking your morning coffee or your morning tea, you'll consume something that came right out of the Bible and tell the world that God knew it all along. He had the answers for our health from the day he created us.
- [73:10]
Alex Clark
You have called seed oils liquid evil. What are we actually consuming?
- [73:15]
Jordan Rubin
We're consuming something that ages and creates unhealthy cells and, let's say, rusts our body. So back in the day, we used to talk about partially hydrogenated or hydrogenated oils, which was easy to see on a label and created trans fats, which are damaged fats, which literally damage your DNA, your cellular structure. Now, we know know that industrially processed plant or seed oils are harmful ubiquitously. There are certain oils that are amazing and olive oil you can make with very little technology. You quite literally stack a bunch of olives together and the gravity will push the bottom olives to produce an oil without doing anything mechanical. Seed oils are using the same processing as highly refined motor oil in our automobiles. And in fact, some seed oils were created as varnish to protect wood and other surfaces. They have zero resemblance to the seed they came from. And in some cases, like canola, which came from a rape seed, you don't even want to have anything to do with the seed it came from to begin with. The three worst foods or food groups in the deadly dozen. And I've written about this since the maker's diet in 2003. Number one was what the Bible calls detestable animal foods or things. That's pork and shellfish. I know I'm gonna stir up a lot. Number two.
- [74:53]
Alex Clark
So you. Wait, hold on. You avoid.
- [74:55]
Jordan Rubin
Avoid deadly dozen. Avoid unclean detestable foods, pork and shellfish. Number two, two artificial sweeteners. Number three, damaged processed oils. To me, those are the worst. Now, sugar follows and there's plenty of other chemicals. But if you're eating according to scripture, you want to avoid pork and shellfish and other finless and scaleless fish and other creatures that are monogastric garbage cans. And you want to avoid. Avoid pink, yellow and blue packeted sweeteners as well as hydrogenated seed oils. And I'm detecting some interesting looks. Yeah. That you're giving me.
- [75:37]
Alex Clark
Do you avoid oysters?
- [75:38]
Jordan Rubin
Yes, I do.
- [75:39]
Alex Clark
Did you? I just heard gunshots. Oysters to me are like the ultimate superfood. So I need to know why you.
- [75:47]
Jordan Rubin
Say avoid shellfish is a barometer for the toxicity of the body. Of water it's in. So when a scientist wants to study how toxic the waters are, check the shrimp, check the scallops, check the oysters. In fact, all of these can be thrown into polluted waters and help purify the water as they store those toxins.
- [76:10]
Alex Clark
My number one favorite food.
- [76:12]
Jordan Rubin
I know I'm gonna be wrinkling some feathers here, but when I first started following a biblical diet, I read three books. One of them was called or now is called the Milk Book. At the time. Check this.
- [76:25]
Alex Clark
Today, the devil.
- [76:26]
Jordan Rubin
No, this was called the Milk of humankind is not pasteurized. Someone should have told Dr. Douglas. That's too long of a title. Now it's called the Milk Book. Pediatrician wrote it. Amazing. Changed my view on dairy for the rest of my life. Number two, God's key to health and happiness. A pastor who had stomach cancer yelled at God and said, God, I've served you all these years. I don't know why I'm sick and dying. And he said, you haven't followed my word. He felt led to avoid pork and shellfish and wrote about how he was cured and others had similar experiences. And the third book is called none of these Diseases, which is a phenomenal book, really, on hygiene and how God's principles could have spared us from the bubonic plague and the Middle Ages, et cetera.
- [77:14]
Alex Clark
Oh, interesting.
- [77:15]
Jordan Rubin
But God's Key to health and happiness made a big impact on me. And I haven't consumed any pork or shellfish or what God would call detestable animals in the last nearly 30 years.
- [77:26]
Alex Clark
Not even lobster.
- [77:27]
Jordan Rubin
Not even lobster.
- [77:28]
Alex Clark
Not even salad. Pigs.
- [77:30]
Jordan Rubin
There's other fish in the sea. Joel and I disagree on this. He wrote a book on pigs, and so did I. They have different outcomes, let me tell you.
- [77:37]
Alex Clark
Wow, this is crazy.
- [77:38]
Jordan Rubin
And I love Joel. I love Joel. But we disagree on that. I believe that God created us. He created the. We call them. People will call him kosher. This is not about kosher. They are called detestable, the same way human excrement is called detestable. And if I started telling you about. About the anatomy and physiology of pigs, no matter how well they're treated, you might not want to eat it either.
- [78:01]
Alex Clark
What should our medicine cabinet, and I'm saying that in quotes, in our homes actually be filled with.
- [78:07]
Jordan Rubin
Now, we do have some medicine, things like hydrogen peroxide and alcohol for certain emergencies. But everything we have ranges from herbs and spices. I do use some homeopathic remedies. I know that can be a little controversial, but I do believe they can be helpful in certain instances. And really, that's it. Essential oils are great, but they kind of come from herbs and spices. If you look at our pantry, we have all kinds of remedies for everything you would need. And I have to, because I had six children that I was raising. Now we have four in the house. And undoubtedly you're going to have a bump, a scrape, a bruise, a boo boo or a sore throat very frequently. Other things we use. Apple cider vinegar is great. Along with. We love honey. So we've got manuka honey. We've got melapana honey from Brazil, which is really good for certain ailments.
- [79:01]
Alex Clark
Why should honey be in our medicine cabinets?
- [79:04]
Jordan Rubin
Honey is the ultimate medicine. Now you can get honey just like milk and bread that is highly processed and mostly just a bunch of sugar.
- [79:13]
Alex Clark
But don't buy the one in the bear.
- [79:15]
Jordan Rubin
Honey in its natural form. Form is amazing. Topically, it's a skin regenerator. And it's amazing for sore throats. It's God's sweetener again. You want to get a honey that is raw or unpasteurized, unprocessed. But it is literally a medicine cabinet. A beehive is a medicine cabinet in and of itself. With propolis or propolis. Royal jelly. Bee pollen's amazing. I give my kids who have seasonal allergy issues, I give them raw bee pollen from a local area. And notice how I was careful on how I said that about my kids. I'm really intentional about not saying that my kids have a disease or they are. Xyz. I don't like it when people say I'm diabetic, my son's diabetic, my child's autistic because I believe there's a level of acceptance or ownership in a disease. So I try my best to use terms like. Like I'm fighting something or I've been diagnosed with or in a battle. Because I just don't like people identifying with disease. And I believe the Bible says that out of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. And death and life is in the power of the tongue. So add to controversial things. I don't want to label anybody as a cancer. Xyz. I'm a. I'm a cancer survivor. Now. I say cancer conqueror. But. But I don't want people to say I have cancer because I don't believe you have cancer. I believe you have an abnormal reaction to the environment within your body. That God hasn't brought healing yet. But he. He already gave the answer to six.
- [80:52]
Alex Clark
On vaccine, kids growing up, sickness, fevers. What were you giving your kids for fevers?
- [80:58]
Jordan Rubin
A lot of things. We will make sure somebody is hydrated before giving them anything else. But as we're filming this, I'm here in Arizona and my wife is in Alabama with my kids. And I have a daughter who had some kind of a virus because she vomited and she had a fever. So what she first did was a couple of drops of oregano oil. Now this is kicking and screaming. She's 12 and oregano is spicy. And obviously we made sure she was hydrated not just with water, but with really healthy sea salt because she needed to make sure to hold onto the hydration. We monitor and then we use lavender oil for her forehead and make sure that she only consumes nourishing foods like broth. So I'm not here to tell you, my kids never have anything.
- [81:44]
Alex Clark
Right.
- [81:45]
Jordan Rubin
My daughter, who's 12, is homeschooled. She's going to a homeschool co op. She's around other children. My son goes to college. My daughter plays sports. You know, they're in contact with people. So we get inevitably some of these same issues. But we always, always go for natural methods first. I don't judge people that do otherwise. We've just found that when you, quote, unquote, treat an ailment naturally, you come out better than when you were initially dealing with symptoms. And when you treat a disease conventionally, you often come out worse. Most people who die from cancer die from either a wasting disease, they lose their muscle and lose their constitutional health, or something related to toxicity and often due to the treatments. And that is a fact, and it is a sad one.
- [82:39]
Alex Clark
What foods do you give your wife when she's pregnant that would shock most obs?
- [82:46]
Jordan Rubin
Raw dairy is essential pre, during and post natal because that helps you build your own milk supply. Most doctors say for women not to eat soft cheeses while they're pregnant because the bacteria in there can cause issues. I have believed that dairy products are essential to consume during and after pregnancy. In addition, and this is not controversial at all, it might just be new information. There's an herb, it's actually a root called shatavari. It is spelled shatavari. It's an asparagus. And it is is clinically studied to increase prolactin after pregnancy and delivery, which increases breast milk. And it can help reduce cortisol, reduce stress, and help with postpartum issues, I'll say, versus depression. So Shatavari or Shatavari it's an Indian herb that is soon being mainstreamed in the US and it is great for women of all ages and stages, but particularly pcos. Clinical study is about to publish. It's absolutely amazing. It's great for blemishes and acne in women. It's great for postpartum, it's great for perimenopause and it's great for menopause. And it is something that both Dr. Josh Axe and I are going to be shouting from the rooftops in the next year because we've delved in, looked at the research and are working with some of the researchers to bring this to market. Because women's health has never been in the shambles it is today here in America.
- [84:23]
Alex Clark
Is this something that you and Dr. Axe are looking to introduce in the future?
- [84:26]
Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. And if I had it my way, Alex, every woman from puberty on would be consuming Shatavari or Shatavari every day because our environment is so toxic and women are suffering and often. And women are suffering in many cases in silence because they don't want to be seen as complaining. Their lack of energy, their mood swings, et cetera, they don't have to happen. And they can be helped with so many things. It just so happens that a certain Shatavari or Shatavari extract has randomized controlled trials that show this can be a real answer to those who are struggling.
- [85:07]
Alex Clark
When does trusting God mean sticking with natural remedies? And when does it mean saying yes to surgery or meds?
- [85:13]
Jordan Rubin
This is a great question and I want to go on record and say that America has the most amazing trauma care on the planet. If you sever a limb, I'm not going to tell you to drink oregano oil or simply to put some lavender on it. If you have a serious issue and you don't have either the knowledge, the practitioner or the means to deal with it naturally, then find a doctor that at least is open minded, will tell you about the side effects and will give you hope that you can one day be medication free. That's the biggest thing. I'm not against medication. I don't believe people should be on a medicine for 19 years that's been studied for nine months. That's just not right. I don't believe when a doctor says you'll need to be on thyroid medicine for the rest of your life. I want people to have choices. But emergency medicine, trauma medicine, is absolutely essential. And I will tell you, Alex, I've had two children who have had Injuries and they've had surgery. And when they're having surgery, I can't say, don't give them anesthesia. I can't say don't give them a painkiller. It's been hard on me, but I am not going to go and completely risk someone's health based on following certain principles. And I came to that same crossroads when I was diagnosed with cancer. I didn't say, I am going the natural and supernatural route or I'll die. What I did was I told the oncologist that I am going to take 40 days to fight this naturally and supernaturally. And if my scans and blood work don't show that I'm cancer free, I will look at conventional options. And I monitored it. I didn't just, just turn a blind eye and say, I'm going to go ahead and eat wheatgrass and a few, you know, seeded grapes. I made sure to do it responsibly. And that's how I raise my family as well. We are not against conventional medicine. I don't believe every alternative and integrative medicine is amazing, safe and effective. I want to see what we can do to care for our bodies the way that God intended first and foremost, most before seeking conventional medical means. And I believe, Alex, in the next 50 years, what we're calling alternative today, Peptides, stem cell therapy, that's going to be standard care. I just don't think people should wait.
- [87:41]
Alex Clark
Let's talk about these 40 days where you healed your cancer. It was completely gone within 40 days when they said you were 100% likely to die.
- [87:50]
Jordan Rubin
Yes. And in this case, Alex, I had to quote, unquote, fire. The two oncologists I worked with. I did have, fortunately, a good friend who's a medical doctor that could order me tests and scans. He co authored some books with me. But in my case, I had studied, I had learned, I had gone through nutrition, naturopathic medical training. I felt God calling me to do this. And the 100% death sentence, it didn't deter me. It gave me more resolve because I knew that was going to be the ultimate testimony. And as I shared this with you today, I'm seeing the reaction, right, if I told you that I had a 1% chance to live, it would be less controversial. But I believed that God was going to heal me. And I took a course where 12 to 14 hours a day, day, spiritually, mentally, physically and emotionally, I fought cancer. I had a prayer that I constructed called the Healing Prayer for Cancer. That took some amazing Bible teachings. Scripture combined it. I said it out loud three times a day. I also ate a particular diet that was high in nutrition, low in toxicity.
- [89:06]
Alex Clark
Share a little bit about the diet.
- [89:07]
Jordan Rubin
So I consumed primarily raw foods, and that was raw. Raw dairy, raw fruits and vegetables, and raw animal foods. Raw. I'm opening up Pandora's box. Raw meat. Now, why raw? Because in this particular case, I needed to flood my body with enzymes. And before people go crazy, we often eat sushi or sashimi. We often eat beef carpaccio. True, true. In this case, it wasn't really raw as much as it was cooked without heat. So I had salmon ceviche with lime juice and some lemon juice. I had meat that was marinated in extra virgin olive oil, which, believe it or not, would lower the bacterial count if there was any. But eating those unprocessed foods flooded my body with nutrition. I also detoxified consistently. I was in a sauna for hours a day. I got a lot of sun while protecting my skin appropriately. But I got sun without sunscreen and later would be put oils on. And probably most importantly, I spent four days going back through every memory I had, whether someone had hurt me or I had hurt someone. And I went through every memory, wrote it down, and I prayed through it so there would be no emotion left. And I'm telling you, I went back to eight years old, little Jordy Rubin in little league baseball when my coach said, if you strike out one more time, I'm going to do something terrible to you. I worked at it. And I got to tell you, Alex, eating raw meat was way easier than going through even minor emotional issues. But we've all got some kind of emotional junk in the trunk, if you know what I mean. And I felt like a weight was lifted off me when I forgave those that hurt me, me. And when I asked for forgiveness from God in instances that I hurt other people. And there were a lot more than you would think. So it's something that is powerful. I would never tell anybody to go eat raw foods and expect to be cured from cancer. You've got to take a holistic approach. I know it's cliche, but you got to fight it on all fronts. And I also, Alex, surrounded myself with people that believe I would be healed. I didn't tell many people. I didn't let my quote unquote following come along. I told my employees, I said, I've been diagnosed with cancer. God has healed me. You're going to see it manifest. That's some church ease for the symptoms. Are going to go away and science is going to agree with what God already said. I told about 40 friends and family members. I didn't allow anyone in my life who spoke negatively or told me I, I was going to kill myself or doing something crazy. And I got to tell you, after those 40 days, which, answering your original question, when I got the scans back and the blood test that said I was cancer free, I made the 40 best phone calls in my life. Most of the time with tears before words. But sharing with my family and friends that God healed me when there was a 0% chance of it happening, according to the expert, hurts. Being used by God in that moment was something I'll never forget.
- [92:24]
Alex Clark
Okay, so. So let's say after the 40 days were up, your scans were showing that things were really improving, but you weren't totally cancer free. What would you have done?
- [92:32]
Jordan Rubin
I didn't even think about that during the 40 days because I truly asked God to give me faith that is the substance of things, hoped for the evidence of things not seen. And he did. I broke faith four times. I had blood tests every two weeks with a very sophisticated way to test my markers. And every time the lab director called, my hand would shake when I saw his number on the phone and when I was going to get my CT scan results at the same radiology center that I had my original results, I was holding a glass at the counter of water and I dropped it and it broke because my hand was shaking. And I told my wife, Nikki, I said, you have to drive me. I can't drive myself.
- [93:13]
Alex Clark
So.
- [93:13]
Jordan Rubin
So I broke faith four times. But the rest of the time, I didn't have a doubt that God was going to heal me and science was gonna prove it. However, I was learning and educating myself. And if I were to still have further to go, I would have crossed that bridge when I came to it. But I told my wife in no uncertain terms, I am not going to use natural health as an idol. It is a tool that God uses. But if I need other types of therapy that I believe will work, I'm going to do it. However, during those 40 days, that wasn't part of my thought process. I wish I could impart that kind of faith to everyone or even myself today with some things that you inevitably deal with. But it really was a supernatural faith that God can give, and I needed it to win this battle.
- [94:06]
Alex Clark
When does your book, the Biblio Diet, come out?
- [94:08]
Jordan Rubin
I am so excited, Alex, that the Biblio Diet launches on Tuesday, September 16, and the greatest passion of mine is to see people who call on the name of the Lord overcome health challenges, know how to feed their family, look and feel their best, but ultimately give glory to God. So the Biblio diet again will help people live long, master metabolism, reduce pain, fight depression and conquer cancer with healing secrets from the Bible.
- [94:39]
Alex Clark
Where can people find you on social media?
- [94:41]
Jordan Rubin
Believe it or not, Alex, I launched social media five weeks ago. At the airing of this program, I was very content to stay in the shadows. I like to joke and say that through TBN and QVC. My audience was 75 to 90 year old women, which by the way, are awesome. If you're listening, I don't think that's your demographic traffic. We launched social media and you can go to Jordan Srubin at Instagram. We have all the socials now and I am unashamedly sharing the message of health and hope in the name of Jesus and not looking at many comments because as you've taught me on this program, they're not all nice.
- [95:17]
Alex Clark
That's right.
- [95:17]
Jordan Rubin
But yeah. So I'm really excited. We're going to talk about regenerative farming. You'll see me with the water buffaloes and the little baby goats. We're going to show you show how plants are grown. We're going to talk about mental, physical, spiritual and emotional strategies to fight cancer. We even have some really cool freebies to give away. But I want to have an army raised up to take back the health of this nation in the name of God. You and I have in common that we both greatly appreciate Secretary Kennedy and all of the maha soldiers. But God needs to gain the glory for, for transforming our health. Not a man, not a government and not a movement.
- [95:55]
Alex Clark
Let's freaking go. Okay. If you could offer one remedy to helicit culture physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would that remedy be?
- [96:05]
Jordan Rubin
The number one thing is prayer. Number two is forgiveness. I know you only asked for one.
- [96:09]
Alex Clark
That's all right.
- [96:10]
Jordan Rubin
And number three, if you're gonna ingest anything, I'm really passionate about these fruit tree leaves mainly because God mentions in scripture only two times something that is in any translation, medicine, a cure or a remedy. And that is fruit tree leaves. And I'm going to spend the rest of my life, Alex, sharing with people how to consume them. And best of all, the poorest people in the most remote nations in the world have the greatest amounts of healing leaves. There is no barrier here for healing God's way.
- [96:48]
Alex Clark
In the healing leaves chapter of the Biblio Diet, do you give examples or recipes on what to do with them.
- [96:53]
Jordan Rubin
Absolutely. And in fact, if someone wants to visit thebibliodiet.com we are giving chapter 14 healing leaves away for free. I give my favorite leaves. You can order them from farms, you can order them from herb shops. You can find them here and there. They're not all combined yet. Yet. But I promised you on this program, so I have to do it. Alex, we're going to bring healing leaves to the people one day soon.
- [97:18]
Alex Clark
Thank you, Jordan, for coming all the way to Hot Phoenix in the middle of the summer to film. You were very, very, very highly requested. My audience already knows you, loves you and are so excited to buy your book. So thank you for coming on.
- [97:30]
Jordan Rubin
Thank you so much for having me.
- [97:35]
Alex Clark
I am 99% sure Jordan Rubin thinks I'm the weirdest person that's ever interviewed him. But that's okay. That's okay. That was so great. Please leave us a five star review. Tell us what you thought of this episode and others why they should listen to Culture Apothecary. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture. Twice a week, Mondays and Thursdays at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern, new guests bring their own unique remedy to do just that. Don't forget to subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube. You can find me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark the show at Culture Apothecary. And some of you may not know this if you're new here, but we do sell show merch. Tpusamerch.com code Alex Clark, by the way, gets you 10% off. I'm Alex Clark. Thanks for listening to Culture Apothecary.