The Lie of 9 to 5: Fixing Your Circadian Rhythm | Thaddeus Owen

Summary

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark: Episode Summary

Title: The Lie of 9 to 5: Fixing Your Circadian Rhythm
Guest: Thaddeus Owen
Release Date: May 6, 2025

In this compelling episode of Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, host Alex Clark is joined by Thaddeus Owen, a visionary biohacker, engineer, and wellness expert, to delve deep into the intricate relationship between our circadian rhythms and modern lifestyle habits. Thaddeus, the co-founder of Dreamwalkers, shares his expertise on how sunlight, artificial light, and our daily routines silently shape our health in profound and often overlooked ways.

1. Understanding Circadian Rhythms and Health

Thaddeus Owen begins by challenging the conventional notion of the standard eight-hour sleep cycle. He asserts, “So this eight hours of sleep a night I think is bull” (00:15), advocating for a more flexible approach tailored to seasonal changes. According to Thaddeus, humans are biologically designed to sleep less during summer and more in winter, aligning our sleep patterns with natural light cycles.

2. The Impact of Light on Circadian Rhythms

Sunlight vs. Artificial Light

Thaddeus emphasizes the paramount importance of natural sunlight, stating, “Nature sets our biological clocks” (03:43). He explains that wearing sunglasses outdoors can hinder our body's ability to perceive ultraviolet (UV) light, which is essential for various health benefits such as vitamin D production and nitric oxide synthesis. By blocking UV light, sunglasses inadvertently reduce our ability to absorb these vital nutrients.

Blue Light and Its Detriments

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the dangers of blue light, especially from artificial sources. Thaddeus warns, “The light that we're exposed to is highly intense in the blue color of light” (09:14), linking excessive blue light exposure to cancer, heart disease, diabetes, obesity, and even macular degeneration. He highlights that devices like smartphones, tablets, and LED lighting predominantly emit blue light, disrupting our natural circadian rhythms.

3. Practical Strategies for Optimizing Light Exposure

Morning Sunlight Exposure

Thaddeus advises waking up with the sunrise to reset the circadian clock. “I wake up with the sun and that is a different time all year” (04:29). He recommends spending at least 10-15 minutes outdoors barefoot, without sunglasses or contacts, to allow the body to naturally adjust to the morning light and stimulate hormone production.

Evening Light Reduction Techniques

To counteract the harmful effects of blue light at night, Thaddeus suggests eliminating artificial light exposure after sunset. “Minimize or eliminate the amount of blue light you're exposed to at night” (54:40). This can be achieved by using blue light blocking glasses, dimming lights, or utilizing red lighting in living spaces to promote melatonin production and facilitate deeper, more restorative sleep.

4. The Concept of a Light Diet

Light and Weight Management

A groundbreaking revelation in the episode is the concept of a "light diet." Thaddeus recounts a study where mice exposed to 24 hours of light became obese, while those with a 12-hour light-dark cycle maintained normal weight (18:25). This underscores the profound impact of light exposure on metabolism and weight management, independent of diet and exercise.

Hormonal Effects

Thaddeus elaborates on how blue light influences hormonal balance. “Blue light increases cortisol. It keeps us awake and alert... when we see blue light at night, our melatonin is destroyed” (20:22). This hormonal disruption leads to increased stress, anxiety, and cravings for sugar and carbohydrates, further contributing to weight gain and metabolic issues.

5. Special Considerations

Parenting and Sleep

Thaddeus addresses the challenges new parents face in maintaining healthy sleep patterns. He advises, “New moms, new dads, you can get better quality sleep if you understand how the circadian rhythm and light works” (13:03). Recommendations include using red nightlights and minimizing phone usage during nighttime feedings to preserve melatonin levels for both parents and infants.

Jet Lag Solutions

For travelers, Thaddeus offers practical advice to mitigate jet lag. “Get outside as close to dawn or sunrise as possible and stay out there for a minimum of 10 minutes” (53:57). Additionally, he emphasizes the importance of getting barefoot on concrete to enhance light absorption and facilitate the body's adjustment to new time zones.

Night Shift Workers

Addressing those who work night shifts, Thaddeus acknowledges the inherent challenges but provides strategies to lessen negative health impacts. “Wear blue light blocking glasses during your shift, get blackout curtains, and see the sunset instead of sunrise” (46:07). While he admits optimal health may not be achievable, these measures can significantly improve circadian alignment and overall well-being.

6. Tools and Technologies

Blue Light Blocking Glasses

Thaddeus advocates for the use of blue light blocking glasses, categorizing them into different types based on their effectiveness. He distinguishes between clear lenses that offer minimal protection and yellow-tinted glasses that effectively block about 50% of blue light, preventing macular degeneration and preserving melatonin (31:27).

Red Light Therapy

Highlighting the benefits of red light therapy, Thaddeus explains, “Red and infrared are the antidote to blue light” (51:28). He recommends high-quality red light panels that emit appropriate wavelengths without excessive heat, enhancing cellular repair and overall health.

7. Implementing Changes: Steps to Fix Circadian Rhythm

Thaddeus outlines a three-step approach to restoring circadian health:

1. Morning Sunlight Exposure: “Get outside as close to dawn or sunrise as possible and stay out there for a minimum of 10 minutes” (53:57).
2. Eliminate Blue Light at Night: Use blue light blockers, dim lighting, or red lights to minimize exposure.
3. Adjust Sleep Duration Seasonally: In winter, aim for at least nine and a half hours of sleep to compensate for reduced daylight (54:58).

He emphasizes that with consistency, these changes can significantly enhance sleep quality, reduce stress, and improve overall health within six weeks (53:35).

8. Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Thaddeus Owen leaves listeners with a powerful remedy to heal a sick culture: “Get outside every day at dawn for your spirit and for your health” (58:03). By realigning our lives with natural light cycles, minimizing harmful artificial light exposure, and adopting a light-focused lifestyle, we can unlock profound improvements in physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being.

Where to Find More Information:

• Website: Dreamwalkers AI
• YouTube: Primalhacker
• Social Media: Instagram at Dreamwalkers AI

Thaddeus Owen's insights offer a transformative perspective on how revisiting our relationship with light can lead to a healthier, more vibrant life. For those seeking to optimize their circadian rhythms and embrace a more natural lifestyle, this episode serves as an indispensable guide.

Transcript

[Alex Clark]

Should we stop wearing sunglasses?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Yes, except we should be wearing them indoors and at night, not outdoors during the day.

[Alex Clark]

So you are an expert in all things circadian rhythm and light diet. So what time are you waking up and what time are you going to bed?

[Thaddeus Owen]

So this eight hours of sleep a night I think is bull. I wake up with the sun, actually need to sleep less in the summer and more in the winter and that's how we're biologically designed.

[Alex Clark]

How are sunlight, artificial light, and the timing of our eating and sleeping habits silently shaping our health in powerful, often overlooked ways? Thaddeus Owen is a visionary biohacker, engineer and wellness expert who has dedicated his life to helping people harness the power of circadian rhythms for peak performance and vibrant health. As the co founder of Dreamwalkers, he's on the cutting edge of creating groundbreaking tools that promote deep restorative sleep. This interview ended up being a favorite for me. I learned so much stuff about circadian rhythms I had never heard before. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel or culture Apothecary on Spotify and make sure that you pause right now and leave a five star review on whichever podcast app you listen. That is a huge help and not enough people are leaving reviews when they listen. Please don't forget join the Conservatives Facebook group to meet like minded friends and fans of the show. Please welcome Thaddeus Owen to Culture Apothecary. Should we stop wearing sunglasses?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Yes.

[Alex Clark]

No way.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Except we should be wearing them indoors and at night, not outdoors during the day.

[Alex Clark]

We should wear our sunglasses at night?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Absolutely. Wait, explain when you so first let's talk about outdoors.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

When you wear sunglasses outdoors, they block the uv and that's kind of what most people wear them for. Things are bright. Well, the reason things are too bright for most people is because they don't get out at dawn to see the sunrise. And if they did, their eyes would adjust to the sun and they wouldn't need sunglasses. The second reason people wear them is because of the ultraviolet. And we've been told forever from optometrists and doctors that UV is bad for the eyes. And in fact, our eyes have receptors to read the ultraviolet light, and when we cover them with sunglasses, we cannot read how much UV is in the sun, and so we get sunburned when we can read how much UV is in the sun. By not wearing sunglasses, we can create melanin on our skin to absorb the ultraviolet, which creates vitamin D or hormone D in the body. It increases nitric oxide, which lowers blood pressure all these beautiful benefits from the sun. But we don't get it if we cover our eyes with sunglasses because we cannot see any of the UV to tell our body what to do in the sun.

[Alex Clark]

So when you're saying that you're, you can tell when you're going to get sunburned if you don't have sunglasses on. Like, what do you mean by that?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Your body is really intelligent. It was designed perfectly and it was designed to work with nature and the sun. So our eyes have receptors for the UV light and it reads how much UV is present in the sun and it tells your body how to utilize that UV light for health. And part of that is putting melanin or darker pigmentation into the skin to trap more of those sunlight photons because they're healing. And when you create the melanin, you don't get sunburned. Your body knows how to protect itself.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so when I lay out, I need to make sure I'm not wearing sunglasses.

[Thaddeus Owen]

That is critical. So most people, they're fashionable, right? I look good in these sunglasses. So they want to wear them outside. But the fact is that nature sets our biological clocks. And when we wear sunglasses and sunscreen and clothes and hats, it's like if you cover a orange tree with a tarp. So you put a tarp over an orange tree, what's going to happen to the orange tree? It's going to die. Same thing with us. When you cover us with sunglasses and we hide from the sun. It's not how we were born. We didn't come out, you know, wearing clothes and sunglasses. So our biology is tuned and designed to utilize the sun. And when we cover up, we become less healthy.

[Alex Clark]

So you are an expert in all things circadian rhythm and light diet, as I like to call it. So what time are you waking up and what time are you going to bed?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Great question. So I wake up with the sun and that is a different time all year. So in the winter that might be 7:00 in the morning. That's hard when you have a full time corporate job. And what I try to tell people, and it's a quote from a book and I love it, is sleep as much as you can without getting fired or divorced. So it's true that the more sleep we get, the healthier we are. Especially in the winter, you don't need to sleep as much in my opinion and from everything I've studied in the summer. So this eight hours of sleep a night I think is bull. Like you actually need to Sleep less in the summer and more in the winter. And that's how we're biologically designed. So I almost always get up with the dawn and get outside barefoot, no glasses, no sunglasses, no contacts, and see the sunrise.

[Alex Clark]

Now, you live in Wisconsin. You're a Midwest guy.

[Thaddeus Owen]

I am.

[Alex Clark]

So in the winter, are you going out in the snow barefoot?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Sometimes.

[Alex Clark]

Really?

[Thaddeus Owen]

So if I could go out every day in the snow barefoot, I would. Now my wife and I go out every single day and see the sunrise at dawn. We made a commitment for the rest of our lives that we will not miss one day. If you're barefoot, it slows down the photons of the sun. This gets a little technical, but what it's doing is it's creating things, hormones in your body from sunlight. By being barefoot and looking in the direction of the sun at dawn, it turns on your testosterone for men and estrogen for women.

[Alex Clark]

You committed to every single day seeing the sunrise?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Absolutely.

[Alex Clark]

What if you're sick?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Get outside.

[Alex Clark]

Wow.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Because you're going to heal you. The sun is healing.

[Alex Clark]

So I remember, like, you know, when you're reading, like, old books, like the Victorian era or something, the doctors are always like, you need the sun. You're sick. Go to the seaside. It'll heal you. Is there truth to this?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Okay, so I used to read a lot of those books, too. And I'm always like, what is the deal with people? Like, I have rheumatism, I have this, I have that. And they keep leaving to go south or to the seaside. Their doctor is like, go to the sea, go to the ocean. And in fact, in Europe, they used to have sunlight wings of the hospital. Even so they would put babies and sick people in the direct sunlight outdoors. They had windows and doors that opened in the hospital, and they would put the sickest patients there. Or now the seashore has additional benefits like ozone grounding, but the sunlight is absolutely healing. And when you're barefoot on the ground, and especially at the seashore, it's even extra healing because of the ozone that's coming in from that ocean wave. That is healing. And that makes a ton of sense. You do heal. When you're on vacation, think about how much better you feel and how much happy you are when you're on the beach on vacation. It's a real thing.

[Alex Clark]

Well, and correct me if I'm wrong, you know more than me. But also part of the reason we feel so much better, oceanside is the negative ions coming from the waves. Right. And you don't. You get similar benefits to lighting beeswax candles.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Yes. So you can get negative ions from a number of things. Like some of those salt rock lamps.

[Alex Clark]

Yes.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Those can give off negative ions as well. If you have the right light. If you put an LED light in there, it's not working. But if you put an incandescent light inside your salt rock lamp, you get the negative ions coming off.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, wow.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Same with on the seashore. So those negative ions. Here's the deal. When we have inflammation in the body, it's positive charge. How do we get rid of positive charge, which is inflammation, which leads to disease? We want to get rid of that and absorb electrons, negative charge. The more electrons we have, the more energy we have, the more our cells can heal themselves. So standing barefoot on the ground dumps positive charge into the ground and absorbs free electrons, just like burning beeswax candles. Just like the salt rock lamp. And just like being on the ocean, right on the shore of the beach, all of those negative ions are free electron energy for the body.

[Alex Clark]

And I love that almost everything that we're talking about for the most part, besides like a salt lamp or whatever or a candle which costs barely anything, I mean, this is free. This is free stuff that can greatly benefit your health.

[Thaddeus Owen]

I kind of grew up in the biohacking space. And in the biohacking space it's chasing supplements and magic technology devices. And they're all really expensive. And if they all worked perfectly now, some supplements are great, but a lot of the devices, they don't work perfectly. So people chase the next one and the next one and they're spending so much money that what we decided is we wanted to look at how to take biohacking and make it nature based because some of those things work better. So if you're going to invest money in a supplement or if you're going to invest money in a device, it will work better if you're already doing the free natural things that tune your body up.

[Alex Clark]

How is the light in our homes and then in our workspace offices really making us sick so many ways?

[Thaddeus Owen]

So we are a light poisoned population. The light that we're exposed to is highly intense in the blue color of light. So if you look around yourself on your device, your tablet, your phone, your television, your laptop, the overhead lighting at the office or the gym, it doesn't look blue. But that white light that we see is based on a blue LED technology. So the thing that drives the light out of those lights that are all around us now that everything's LED is blue. Frequencies of light. And so if you analyze it with a scientific instrument, it will show you there's no infrared, almost zero red light, very little yellow, and a ton of blue light. Blue light in itself is not bad, but blue light becomes toxic when we're exposed to too much of it. It messes with our circadian rhythm. It is actually associated with cancer, heart disease, diabetes and obesity if we see it after sunset. And macular degeneration during the day because we have so much of it hitting our eyes causing free radicals.

[Alex Clark]

How do you know if your circadian rhythm is off?

[Thaddeus Owen]

You would know if your circadian rhythm, which is this natural 24 hour cycle that's designed into our biology and it is controlled by light and dark cycles of the earth. It will be off if you're not waking up and seeing the sunrise and seeing the sunset at night and then not seeing any light after the sun sets. Now, how many of us, none have the lights off after the sun sets? Especially in winter when it, you know, In Wisconsin it's 4pm when the sun sets.

[Alex Clark]

So when the sun sets in your house, is that bedtime or is that just no big light time. I'm putting on candles or something.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Ideally, if you sleep for the number of hours that it's dark outside, you will not get cancer, heart disease, diabetes or obesity.

[Alex Clark]

That's a huge claim.

[Thaddeus Owen]

There is a ton of research done by the National Institute of Health. They've known this for decades, that if you get enough sleep and you're not exposed to all this light, then it is almost. And they've done a study on, they've done a mouse study where they tried to give the mice cancer, but if the mice were sleeping nine and a half hours or more, they could not give them cancer because of the high melatonin because they are getting enough sleep. So most people think that diabetes, obesity, heart disease is caused by overeating or under exercising, but in fact it's caused by lack of sleep is what all of the studies show. To the point that the head of the circadian rhythm at the NIH National Institute of Health for our government back in the 1990s was asked if we know that sleep and therefore light is causing all these health problems in Americans, don't they deserve to know this? And the head of the NIH said yes, they deserve to know it, but nobody's going to turn out the lights. The NIH has thousands of studies that show that artificial light at night, they code name it Allen A L A N artificial light at night. So this Allen is a human carcinogen.

[Alex Clark]

Whoa.

[Thaddeus Owen]

It's listed in the World Health Organization As a type 2 probable human carcinogen because of all the things that it's associated with heart disease, diabetes, cancer and obesity.

[Alex Clark]

And you're saying over nine hours of.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Sleep during the winter time, and of course those of us in the Midwest get more darkness than you might down here in Arizona during the wintertime. We should be getting more than nine and a half hours of sleep every single night.

[Alex Clark]

So I'm just going to tell you because I just, I always, it's like I. It's like a devil and an angel on my shoulder. You know, I've got my audience always sitting there and I can hear what they will say in my comment section. And most of them are young moms and they're going to say that's not realistic. Nobody who's a parent can say, I'm always getting, you know, nine hours of sleep at night. What's your response?

[Thaddeus Owen]

That is the most challenging time to get sleep.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[Thaddeus Owen]

And it's the time when you want sleep the most because you're woken up all the time that is totally disrupting your circadian rhythm. And baby circadian rhythm comes in in around two to three months. So at two to three months old, they get a circadian rhythm. The problem is, even if we can't get enough sleep, new mom, new dad, you can get better quality sleep if you understand how the circadian rhythm and light works. So if mom is getting two hours of sleep at a time, wouldn't it be great if she got two hours of deep restorative sleep that restored her physically and that happens with melatonin production and deep sleep. You restore yourself physically and you can feel really good with less sleep if you're getting high quality sleep. And there's a way to do that for new moms, and that's actually we have a whole part of our website called New Mom Sleep Solution because of what we've learned for circadian rhythm. As baby is getting entrained to their circadian rhythm, you want them to sleep more during the night. But the problem is most moms, and including like when I was having kids, you wake up and there's a night light on in the kid's room. Night lights on the room. Not that it's a bad thing, but it has been shown especially for women, that if they have a nightlight on their bedroom, they'll gain more weight, significantly more weight than women that sleep in the dark. Same with kids. That predisposes them to gain more weight early in life.

[Alex Clark]

Whoa.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So what we did is we had pitch dark room for the kids. And then guess what? They weren't afraid of the dark either when they were older because they didn't have lights on growing up. Then what happens is when mom goes to breastfeed often, she's gonna like, look at her phone or a tablet because, like, you might be sitting here for a while. It's the middle of the night, so some kind of a light comes on. It could be the phone, it could be whatever. Well, that light disrupts circadian rhythm, and then it reduces and sometimes destroys all of the melatonin, which is what heals us during sleep. So then you try to go back to sleep, and you might fall asleep and then wake up and feel like you didn't sleep very well.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

It's because you're missing the benefits of sleep by utilizing light incorrectly.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, interesting. Now you have an iPhone. Do you always keep it on the red light screen?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Most people don't know this, that your iPhone or an Android phone, they both have a setting where they can be using just like a red version of light. So it looks like a red screen and you can program your phone to do that. I do not do that. And the reason RPI Renzelier Polytechnic Institute has done the the largest number of studies on light and melatonin. And they took iPads and they put the night shift on. So they didn't use the red setting, but they used the deep orange setting of night shift on the iPad. And what they found is it did not significantly change the disruption and destruction of melatonin with the orange setting. It was actually the intensity of the light. So not that orange is bad. Orange does protect some of the melatonin. But the intensity of the iPad, after 45 minutes to two hours, all by itself, regardless of the color, was disrupting melatonin production.

[Alex Clark]

You mean if you're scrolling for two hours.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Correct.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so. And then all. Just having your brightness down all the way.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Dimming the light is more important.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Than just the. The red setting.

[Alex Clark]

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[Thaddeus Owen]

So a light diet is. I love that term because I think light is more important than food and exercise.

[Alex Clark]

More important.

[Thaddeus Owen]

More important because we know. Here's. Here's the definitive study that proved this. 2017. They took mice. So they always take mice. Because they don't. It's hard to experiment on humans and try to give them cancer. It's really a bad, bad idea. So they took mice and they fed them the same diet. So same calories in, and they had them exercise the same amount. So they were doing same calories in, same calories out. And people say losing weight is about calories in, calories out. Right? But that's not true because they had the same exact mice. They had the same calories in, same calories out. They Measured, like, all of these things in the lab, but one set of mice had 24 hours of light, and the other set of mice had 12 hours of darkness and 12 hours of light. No other difference. The mice that had 24 hours of light became obese, and the mice that got 12 hours of darkness were normal weight. And so that study alone proves that light is a drug and that light can actually make you fat. And so going on a light diet actually will help you lose weight.

[Alex Clark]

So if somebody were to come to you, I guess Thaddeus, and be like, you know, I'm really struggling. Losing weight is one of the first questions you're asking them about their light habits.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Absolutely. And so I have a really good friend, and he's a biohacker, so he knows all the stuff. He's certified in all these things. Right. And he couldn't lose his last 45 pounds. It's a lot of weight. And he tried everything, like, every diet, whatever. And he's like. He called me one day and he's like, thaddeus, I lost 45 pounds in six weeks. I was like, what did you do? And he says, I finally did what you told me to do. I got outside every day at dawn, and I started wearing blue light blocking glasses. And I didn't change anything else, and I lost 45 pounds.

[Alex Clark]

He didn't change anything else?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Nothing else.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, like my audience, if you are somebody who's been on this weight loss journey and, like, nothing has worked, I want you to try this and tell us, like, if this actually works, because this is so fascinating. How does the wrong light mess with our hormones?

[Thaddeus Owen]

It's because our body reads blue light, and blue light increases cortisol. It keeps us awake and alert. That's awesome. During the day, we want high cortisol. We want to be awake and alert. But cortisol, as everybody knows, is a stress. It's the hormone of stress. It's a stress hormone. You don't want it at night. So when we see blue light at night, and again, people think, oh, I don't see any blue light. Well, your tablet, your television, your laptop, your phone. And the overhead lights are blue lights, even if they're incandescent. So let's just say, like, you went away from LEDs and you put in incandescents. Those still destroy 50% of your melatonin from the blue that's present. So when we see blue light at night, I mean, the fact of our biology is we have melanopsin receptors. These are receptors in our eye that read blue light. And when they see it, they tell the body it's daytime and to increase cortisol and destroy melatonin. So we're increasing our stress at night when we want to go to sleep, and destroying the hormone called melatonin that is the body's master anti cancer hormone. When you destroy melatonin, melatonin is what sets what we're hungry for. So when we see light late into the night, our body makes us crave sugar and carbs. It makes us do that. We're biologically engineered to do that. When we see blue light at night because we think it's going to be winter soon and we need to put on fat so we become more stressed, we become more anxious. It messes with our insulin, it keeps our insulin high. When we see blue light at night, our insulin stays high because it wants to pull every bit of carbohydrate and sugar into fat for the coming winter. And the problem is we never turn the lights out all year round. So we keep storing this fat for winter with high insulin and high cortisol. Both of those things reduce the amount of melatonin, which is cleaning up all our cells. The other thing it does is it stops the production of leptin. And leptin is a hormone when we wake up that makes us hungry for breakfast, which is a good circadian time to eat. So a lot of the community in the health and wellness space says, like, skip breakfast.

[Alex Clark]

Right. And you disagree?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I completely disagree. Breakfast is probably the most important thing and the largest meal of the day should be your breakfast. Oh, we're biologically designed to have a bigger breakfast because that sets our circadian rhythm. So light and meal timing set your circadian rhythm. And it starts this clock in our body. And the clock says after seeing the sunrise and having a meal, we should produce melatonin in 16 hours.

[Alex Clark]

So if you are somebody who wakes up every morning and you're never hungry for breakfast, your body is telling you.

[Thaddeus Owen]

What your body is telling you that you have a broken leptin system because your circadian rhythm is broken.

[Alex Clark]

So at nighttime when the sun is setting, are you in the winter putting, lighting fireplace? Are you only using candles in the house or using some lamps or what do you do?

[Thaddeus Owen]

The best thing to do at night when it gets dark is to not have any lights and go to bed. No one's going to do that. So the next best thing you can do is candles and fire. So we put in a wood burning stove in our home. We live in Wisconsin, it gets cold in the winter, so we do have a fire every single night in the winter. We do use candles whenever we can, but let's face it, like sometimes I need to be on the laptop or sometimes you need more than a candle to cook dinner. And I think nobody should be eating after dark. There have been numerous studies that show eating after dark causes weight gain every single time and disrupts circadian rhythm. What time do you eat in the winter? We eat at 4pm 4pm the only.

[Alex Clark]

Other person I know that eats that freaking early for dinner is Howard Stern.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Oh my gosh.

[Alex Clark]

I know Howard Stern because he is a morning show host and so he eats dinner at like 4pm and I just know that about him because I used to work in morning radio and I've always thought that was so fascinating I could never get on his level. But oh my gosh, that is so early. So then, so, so breakfast is how soon after you wake up.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Breakfast should be within 30 minutes of seeing the sunrise.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so you go outside and you do sunrise stuff first, then immediately eat.

[Thaddeus Owen]

The sunrise tells your body to start producing testosterone for men, estrogen for women. To start your circadian clock for the day and then to allow you to be hungry for breakfast.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, and then what time is lunch? And what, how big of a lunch are you eating?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I eat a pretty big lunch. So in my opinion, breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince or princess, and then dinner like a popper. Okay, so big, medium, small.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

The best time to fast would be dinner, not breakfast.

[Alex Clark]

And what time is lunchtime?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Solar noon. It can be anytime between 10:30 and 1:30.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, and then dinner is at 4 in the winter.

[Thaddeus Owen]

In the summer, dinner can be at 6 or 7pm because it's still light out. So in Wisconsin, in the, in the Midwest and the north, we eat with the sun. So when the sun is up until 9pm you can eat up until 8pmyou know, you really want to finish dinner, but three to four hours before bed if possible, to get the best sleep.

[Alex Clark]

Doing what you do and like this is your entire life's work is light and circadian rhythms and all of this. I mean, everyone in your life knows that this is your thing. So does that mean that occasionally you do accept dinner dinner invitations for 7pm or does nobody invite you out that late cuz they're like he won't come or what happens? Like, do you make exceptions?

[Thaddeus Owen]

We do make exceptions. So breaking bread with family and friends is really important. And let's face it, in our modern society, it's going to happen. We do try to minimize that though. Like honestly, if you're having a meal with friends and family and it's a social environment and you're relaxed, it can be really healing. So we do have less of those that happen though, because honestly, like, it is inconvenient to go to bed with the sun and to eat with the sun. But cancer and obesity are also pretty inconvenient for your social life. So we really try to limit the amount that we do things like that.

[Alex Clark]

You ever get off a plane and feel like your face aged 5 years? Same between recycled air and altitude, my skin turns into sandpaper. And don't even get me started on what that does to my makeup.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Ugh.

[Alex Clark]

That's why I started traveling with Adele Natural Cosmetics. Their moisturizing foundation is basically a hydrating serum in disguise. It is rich, creamy, it gives buildable coverage without caking even when I'm hopping time zones. And their Blue Lagoon face balm is my carry on essential. It locks in moisture and doubles as a setting cream. Adele is handcrafted in the usa. Made with only the cleanest ingredients. No parabens, no synthetic fragrances, no weird stuff that you can't pronounce. Just skin loving goodness. Adele Natural Cosmetics is the perfect gift also for the mother in your life or mother figure in your life. This Mother's Day. Check out their Mother's Day bundle when you head to adelenaturalcosmetics.com and use code ALEX for 25 off. Your first order your skin and your mom's skin deserves better travel companions. That's Adele natural cosmetics.com with code Alex for 25 off. If you're around tons of kids, you know how hard it is to stay well. And if you're like me, traveling a lot, I mean planes, bad sleep, eating, off schedule, it all messes with your immune system. That's why I started using Cowboy Colostrum and honestly, this is one of my favorite products. My gut is calm. I've had zero travel blow. I haven't gotten sick in months. Now here's what sets Cowboy Colostrum apart. While other Colostrum brands, yes, the ones that you see all over social, use a mix of first, second and even third milkings and strip the fat nutrients. Cowboy uses only first milking Colostrum completely whole and unstripped, think whole milk versus their skim down version. That's why Cowboy Colostrum is fluffier. You will really notice that creamier and way more effective. The vanilla tastes Like a milkshake and it froths into coffee like a dream. Go to cowboy colostrum.com use code Alex for 15% off. That's cowboy colostrum.com with code Alex for 15% off. You're never going to go back to the other colostrum. Our blue light blockers legit or are they just like another wellness scam?

[Thaddeus Owen]

There are a couple of people out there trying to say that they're a scam and I, I noticed that there were some really big sites and articles saying like the number one health myth is blue light blocking classes. And I read their articles. They have not read the research. So there is very definitive research at the National Institute of Health, at Renal Polytechnic Institute at Harvard and elsewhere that shows melatonin, this master anti cancer hormone that cleans up our mitochondria and our cells while we sleep, is preserved. If you wear blue light blocking glasses after sunset, it's proven in numerous peer reviewed published studies that they absolutely work.

[Alex Clark]

Did our ancestors have any little light tricks that we've forgotten about that could really help us today?

[Thaddeus Owen]

They did. So think about 1820 and you're in New York City and it's 5:30pm in the middle of winter. What are you doing at that time? You're probably sleeping because a there's no electrification so the city is not lit up. If you're at home with your family, it's expensive to use firelight to heat up your home, to light up your home so that you can see, so you can read, so you can write. All of those things would only be relegated to the very wealthy that could have to tons of candles burning all the time. So most people, they woke up with the sun. They didn't have these clocks that said like it's 8:00, I have to be at work. 8:00 they woke up with the sun and they went to work when the sun was up.

[Alex Clark]

I'm guessing you don't use an alarm.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Unless I have a flight. Yeah, that I have to be up for. I do not use an alarm. Nobody needs to use an alarm. I actually have an article on my website that says like you never need to use an alarm again. Once your body is synced to the sun when it rises and when it sets, you will naturally wake up when the sun rises.

[Alex Clark]

Are you anti blackout curtains?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Definitely not. Okay, so the reason blackout curtains are beneficial is most of us live around light pollution. So the American Medical association, they published an article in 2017. It was actually a warning. It says warning, LED lights are harmful to Americans health. And that article talked about LED streetlights and how they harm our circadian rhythm and our health. And we should not be using LED street lights with all this blue light. So your neighbor's light, the street lights, whatever lights are outside your home, unless you live in the middle of the country, are coming into your bedroom. And any amount of light coming into your bedroom can be read by your skin when you're trying to sleep and mess up your circadian rhythm and your melatonin. So blackout curtains are great to stop those things.

[Alex Clark]

Okay. I just didn't know, I was curious what you would say because I was wondering if you would say you don't like them because then, you know, the sunrise, you don't notice it. So it's good when you're trying to fall asleep and keeping asleep. But then in the morning though, you're missing out on that light.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Ideally, like you would have these mechanical things that would go up on a timer. Yep. When the sunrise comes up. So the sun comes in and it naturally when, when the sun hits your body, it will naturally wake you up.

[Alex Clark]

Now I noticed that you have on yellow blue light blockers. I interviewed Hilda Labrada Gore a couple years ago and she had orange ones on. Is that a fashion choice or there's like something different going on with these different colors?

[Thaddeus Owen]

There's definitely something different. There are really three types. Well, I'm going to say there's four types of blue light blocking glasses. The first type is not a real type. So the first type of blue light blocking glasses, they look like they have clear lenses, but they look like they reflect a little bit of blue light. Those don't really do anything. They just give you like a warm feeling that like, hey, I'm probably doing something you're not. So those don't work. I don't recommend them. Yellow blue light blocking glasses where they have a little bit of a yellow tint. That's what you have on, that's what I have on. And that's what you want to wear during the day, not outdoors. You need blue light. Natural sunlight is very healing and it's not destructive to your eyes in any way unless you're staring at the sun at noon. But inside, when you're on a device, you're on your laptop, you're on your phone. Wearing yellow blue light blocking glasses stops about 50% of the blue light from hitting your eye. But specifically it stops the high intensity blue light that can cause macular degeneration. So there's A whole host of issues with kids having macular degeneration all of a sudden. That never occurred before.

[Alex Clark]

You think it's from the iPads.

[Thaddeus Owen]

It's from all the devices they're on all the time.

[Alex Clark]

Ooh, that's freaky.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So when we age, our eyes start getting a little bit yellow. They start to get this yellowish tint on older adults eyes. And that yellow, just like my glasses, blocks some of the blue light. Kids don't have that. They're getting the most light poisoning from all these lights everywhere, especially being on devices all the time. You know, my kids are in high school and middle school, and they don't really read books. They don't take tests with paper and pen. They take everything online. They read on a device. They take their test on a device. They're constantly on devices. There's no chalkboards. They're smart boards. And so they're getting all this light in their eye that's not protected by glasses or a yellowing lens of their own eye. So during the day, these blue light blocking glasses that are yellow can prevent that macular degeneration.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

But still allow enough blue light to keep us awake and alert the orange lenses. You see a lot of these people wearing, like, orange glasses at night?

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Those block 100% of blue light. And after sunset? If we see blue light after sunset, our melatonin is destroyed. That's not good. So blocking 100% of the blue light to the eye is perfect. That allows your body to think that it's dark and to produce melatonin to heal yourself while you sleep.

[Alex Clark]

What types of light bulbs should we put in our houses?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I recommend two types. Incandescent. So even though we know that incandescent bulbs can destroy, like, half of your night's melatonin, which is not great, but they don't flicker like an LED light does, and they're a more natural, soft, yellow or light. They have infrared light coming from them. We all know, like, we use these red light panels, these healing red light panels that are red and infrared, While an incandescent bulb has red and infrared light. When you put in LED lights, they flicker even though your eye can't pick it up. Your iPhone will pick up that the light is flickering. Your brain notices that, and you can get migraines. It causes stress in the body, that flickering of the LED that's not visible to our eye but is picked up by our brain.

[Alex Clark]

So one of the worst things is, like, your light on one of those dimmer switches, isn't it?

[Thaddeus Owen]

If it's an LED light, those dimmer switches create a huge magnetic field, which is really bad and massive flicker.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, I have that in my apartment, which I can't help, because it's an apartment.

[Thaddeus Owen]

You can't do much about it.

[Alex Clark]

But that is something I wondered about.

[Thaddeus Owen]

If you replace your light bulb, though, with an incandescent or a halogen bulb, then you can use the dimmer. And it's not as much of a big deal. It's the LED bulbs that go in that are the worst. So I recommend most people either put in incandescent. They're just. They're naturally better for our bodies or. Which is what we do. Except in the kitchen, we use. We use halogen and incandescent in our kitchen. So we can see, like, everything looks gray. All food looks gray under a red light. And we use red light in the rest of our house. So our bathroom light, our living room light, and our bedroom lights are red lights.

[Alex Clark]

Now, is that just a red light bulb?

[Thaddeus Owen]

You can get incandescent light bulbs that are red.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Or LED light bulbs that have almost no flicker and are red.

[Alex Clark]

Now, let me ask something, because this is something that's been very confusing for my audience. Is there a difference between a red light bulb, like a red light used on a chicken, et cetera, and then red light therapy?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Yes. So if you had a chicken light, the chicken light gives off heat because the chickens need to stay warm in the winter, especially where we live. So that red light has a red and infrared. The infrared is the heat coming off of it, and the chickens stay warm. It gives off infrared. It gives off red light. That light bulb can be used for therapy. But a lot of the red light studies show that if your skin gets hot, the red light therapy is not as effective.

[Alex Clark]

Oh.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So the red light panels have invisible infrared light and then some red light. And they don't. If they're designed properly, they don't heat your body. And therefore, the red light gives you more benefit when the skin is not getting hot. So they are different.

[Alex Clark]

I get, like, a little bit warm.

[Thaddeus Owen]

The incandescent lights, the chicken lights, there's saunas out there that use them, and there's red light panels that use these. You get really hot, you'll sweat. So, like, when your skin gets so hot, you're going to sweat. That is too much heat in your body, and it's not as effective. Red light therapy.

[Alex Clark]

Do people that live in Arizona, like me, where it's very sunny, or Florida, are they doing better than with their.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Light diets, you know, they should be because when you're closer to the equator, you can get intense sunlight to make vitamin D in your body. You can get all the hormonal benefits of the uva, like more nitric oxide that lowers blood pressure. All these things that are really healing, the infrared and red, come from the sunlight. There's a ton of infrared and red. So all these things are healing for the body. And therefore we tend to find people that live closer to the equator are healthier than people that live in northern environments. With the exception of modern people today. Because today even people that live in the south, like Arizona or Florida, they don't get outside anymore. They are in their homes behind glass. Glass blocks 50% of the red and infrared, but lets in all the blue and it blocks 100% of the UV, which some UV, not too much UV, but some UV is healing. We need it. We're in our cars, air conditioned behind glass. We're at work, in the office, we're at the gym, we're at the grocery store. And we spend so little time outside that even though we should be healthier living in these beautiful light environments, we are not healthier because we're living 95% plus of our time indoors.

[Alex Clark]

Well, and I mean, that's for sure. My problem is, I mean on the weekends I try to make up for it, but during the week, especially when I'm filming like this, I mean, I'm in this room on set, you know, with these fake lights all day long. So what is your recommendation for the average nine to fiver who going into a workplace to get ideal light throughout the day? Are you advising like just like you take a lunch break, you need to take a sun break.

[Thaddeus Owen]

That's absolutely what I advise. And I, I always tell people like this back, you know, so I grew up in the 80s and 90s, so when I started work, it was the 90s and people still smoked. And sometimes they smoked in the office, like right when I started and then that went away. So they would go outside to smoke, they'd go outside and take a smoke break. And they would take like four or five, six of them a day. You can take a light break. So why not just instead of going to the bathroom or going to the break room and getting another cup of coffee, like fine, grab your coffee, go outside and literally spend two to five minutes outside. No glasses, sunglasses or contacts. Your eye needs to read the light. And because light is a quantum technology, a little bit goes a really long way. So if you can Just get a little bit of a light break. 2 to 5 minutes during your workday. It makes a massive difference in your health.

[Alex Clark]

Let me ask you something. What's actually in your pantry right now? A few dusty cans, some cereal, maybe a mystery box of rice. The last few years have taught us anything. It's this. The supply chain can snap at any moment. Inflation, empty shelves, global shipping delays. We've seen it all. Walmart runs out of food. The whole country runs out of food in just three days. That is exactly why I invested in a harvest right home freeze dryer. This thing is next level. It lets me preserve real food that I already love. Homemade chili, vegetables, even fruits and desserts. And it lasts up to 25 years. And it's not emergency food with weird ingredients like space food or something. It's my food preserved in peak condition with all the flavor, color and nutrition locked in. It's peace of mind that I can see every time I open my pantry. Because I'm not just stocking shelves. I'm protecting my future family. Start building your food security [e-mail] that's harvest right.com. so my friend was telling me how much of a challenge it is to pack her husband's lunch. You know the type. He's the guy who would literally survive on gas station food if left to his own devices. I mean, I get it. So she started packing Paleo Valley beef sticks for him. And honestly, he was in love with it. These beef sticks are made from 100 grass fed grass finished beef. No antibiotics, no grains, no junk. She doesn't want him eating processed foods with ingredients that she can't pronounce. That's where Paleo Valley comes in. They're fermented the old school way, which means that they're packed with gut friendly probiotics. I've seen him gobble one down, you know, and ask for more when it's not even work hours. And let me tell you, he's not one to usually choose healthy snacks, okay? He used to snack on those weird greasy jerky sticks from the gas station until he tasted Paleo Valley. Now it's the go to snack for both of them and their kids. They both feel good knowing that they're eating something that's actually really good for them. Plus, Paleo valley beef sticks taste incredible. Smoky, savory, just the right amount of satisfying. If you're tired of your friends or family snacking on junk, head to paleovalley.com Alex and use code ALEX for 15 off your first order. That's paleovalley.com Alex and then use code ALEX for 15 OFF your first order. No babysitter, no problem. At YWLS, moms are not just welcome, they're celebrated. This is our huge women's conference that Turning Point puts on that I speak at with a nursing room on site this June 13th through 15th at the Gaylord in Dallas. Every woman is invited of every season of life. Hear from Ali Stuckey, Lila Rose, Erica Kirk and more. Connect with women who live for faith, family and freedom. Whether you're 16 or 60, this event is for you. Register now at ywls2025.com and use code ALEX for 25 off. Pack your diaper bag and let's go. What about people that live in really cloudy or darker environments? I mean what's their same exact thing?

[Thaddeus Owen]

People always ask me like, well I get up at dawn but it's cloudy or it's raining or it's foggy. Doesn't matter. Like outdoor light is always going to be a more intense. It'll have more red and infrared and more ultraviolet regardless of what's happening outside than indoor light.

[Alex Clark]

I am very curious your thoughts on these Alaska people where it's like dark all the time.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So just like someone like you that's in a studio all day long, people in Finland, Alaska, Siberia, like they have awful light environment.

[Alex Clark]

That would be your worst nightmare. That's hell for you.

[Thaddeus Owen]

I would not survive there. So those people have to take extraordinary risks to get more light. Like what a sauna. So that's why finish sauna I think is so popular.

[Alex Clark]

Oh yeah, that's right. They are like the sauna people even while pregnant.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Exactly. Yeah. You got to be careful when pregnant because too much heat no good. But definitely like we come indoors especially when it's dark all the time and you're missing red and infrared and uv. So let's give back the missing frequencies. Sauna so traditional Finnish sauna gives you back the red and infrared frequencies that your body misses from outdoor. That's only half the picture. The other half then is the ultraviolet that we're missing and setting our circadian rhythm. Their circadian rhythms are so messed up from it being dark all the time to all of a sudden it's light all the time. So these are extreme environments and they cause extreme distress in the body.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah. Have you ever looked into like you chronic disease rates and things like that for those Alaska people in darkness?

[Thaddeus Owen]

So they have definitely higher anxiety and depression. Finland, Alaska, a lot of like murder.

[Alex Clark]

Suicides and Crazy stuff, right?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Just crazy stuff. And it's because that causes anxiety and depression when our circadian rhythm is messed up and there's like always messed up because they have lights on all the time. Then they go outside, it's dark. It's just like a huge mismatch that they're finding. So they need to bring back missing frequencies. They can get ultraviolet light panels so you can bring like a tanning bed. Right. So when you go tanning, it's ultraviolet A and if you're lucky, ultraviolet B bulbs. The ultraviolet B gives you vitamin D, which they're all missing in the north and it gives you the nitric oxide in your body. But we're missing some of those. So if they go tanning, if they do sauna, and if they're wearing blue light blocking glasses during the nighttime, which can be a lot, then their melatonin is going to help heal their body during that long days of night. And missing frequencies, then heal their body from the things they cannot get from an indoor environment or from their outdoor environment because they don't have it.

[Alex Clark]

Are tanning beds as bad for us as we've been told?

[Thaddeus Owen]

If you overuse them, yes. But for people that live in the north and are not getting enough sun, especially people with darker skin, they need more light and they cannot get it in the winter. You cannot make vitamin D or hormone D in the wintertime in a northern environment. It's impossible unless you're tanning. So I do personally use tanning lights myself and my wife does as well, and I recommend people in the north use them.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so how often are you doing that during the week in the winter?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Not as often as I should be. My wife's like, you have all these lights and you're not using them. So ideally three to five times a week.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, well, the people that like are obsessed with the tanning bed are going to be elated to hear that they are very.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Don't overuse them. But it is healthy to tan in the winter.

[Alex Clark]

And how many minutes per session are you doing?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I'm doing 10 minutes. So I do red and infrared at the same time. I do ultraviolet, so I have my ultraviolet light. I have a closet. So in my closet I've got three red light panels and an ultraviolet light.

[Alex Clark]

Well, now see, that would still be different than going to like Suntan City.

[Thaddeus Owen]

If you go to those tanning places, which I completely recommend for people. You want to ask if they have UVB bulbs because there's two types of uv. Well, there's Three, but there's two types that we can use. There's a third type that sterilizes things if they have UVB bulbs. Yeah, going to those tanning beds can be great. Don't overuse them, don't go too long, but absolutely use them.

[Alex Clark]

For people working night shifts, what is a good way to protect their health and sleep?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Stop working the night shift.

[Alex Clark]

Ooh.

[Thaddeus Owen]

I think the best use of AI technology and robots is night shift.

[Alex Clark]

You know what, that is a fair. Because we're going to need. There's, you know, we need mail to go and all these different things. Like we need some things at night. But yeah, let's put the robots there so that the real humans can have the sunlight and the sleep.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Our biology is designed to be what's called diurnal. We're supposed to be awake during the day and asleep at night. We're not. Night owls. Like owls have a biology called nocturnal. They're supposed to be awake and alert at night. So when humans become awake and alert at night, like, thank God the people are in the emergency room at night. I love that. But it's really bad for their health. Like, there is no way to become optimally healthy working night shift. There are things you can do to make it better. Definitely. Like wearing blue light blocking glasses during your shift, like getting blackout curtains, like, absolutely. Blacking out your bedroom when you go to sleep, seeing sun set instead of sun rise. And you can start to shift your circadian rhythm. It will never be optimally healthy, but it can be better than what people are doing now with no blue blockers, not seeing the sunset, not blacking out their rooms, driving home, rolling their window down and seeing the bright sun of sunrise, that wakes them up. Now they can't get good sleep. Their melatonin is destroyed. So there's things they can do. But honestly, like, if you work night shift, it would be better if you could rotate with somebody on for two months, off for two months, so that you can really reset yourself. Okay, that's hard to do, but that would be ideal. Or like work defining a shift during the day, it is really destructive to work night shifts.

[Alex Clark]

What are your thoughts on the Trump administration's discourse on daylight savings?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I would be so happy. And I've been waiting. I've been like, every time there's a new administration, I'm like, are they finally going to do it? Are they finally going to do away with daylight savings? It would be so helpful.

[Alex Clark]

Really? Why?

[Thaddeus Owen]

If you look at the statistics, every time we do this daylight savings on that next Monday, there's more accidents, there's more suicides, there's more heart attacks because we're completely disrupting our circadian rhythm with the wrong type of light that we've been programmed for six months with a certain circadian rhythm. And then boom, one day they change the time and it's all messed up. And so my preference, if I had my way would be like, we don't go to work till everybody's seen the dawn sun, then go to work and everyone will be healthier and happier. So if the Trump administration does away with daylight savings like, thank you, Please.

[Alex Clark]

Do question about new moms breastfeeding at night, best practices. I mean you talked about don't put your phone on, have it, you know, as dim as possible if you do. But is there any other recommendations?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Definitely dim your phone. Wear a pair of blue light blocking glasses. So mom is waking up her melatonin when she flips on a light or looks at her phone is going to get destroyed. When mom goes back to sleep, she wants the melatonin to be right there to keep repairing her body. So for the little bit of sleep she gets, she gets the repair. So mom put on blue light blocking glasses, dim your phone. Because babies circadian rhythm is getting messed up every single time you breastfeed by that bright light that's shining over the baby's head. Very thin skull in the baby and it's still forming, it's not like a fully formed skull. So that light and the EMF microwave energy goes right into the baby's brain. So honestly, I think your phone should be on airplane mode. It should be very dim and I think you should have a red light in your bedroom, your baby's bedroom. Because when you, if you need a nightlight, you gotta see the baby, make sure it's doing okay, right? And so when you pick the baby up like you don't want it to be pitch dark, but if you have a regular just white light in there, you're disrupting your circadian rhythm. And the babies put a red nightlight in there or a salt rock lamp with really soft, kind of like orangish red lighting. And that will preserve and start to set baby circadian rhythm appropriately when we.

[Alex Clark]

Travel across time zones like you were on, you know, a different time zone before you came here to film in Arizona. How do you use light to help beat jet lag?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Very best way you can do it is as soon as you get off the airplane, get entrained in your local environment and you do that by taking your shoes off and getting barefoot on the ground, no sunglasses, glasses or contacts, and your body will read. Our bodies are designed to read where we are on the planet and what time of day and what time of year it is if we let them. So get off the plane, get barefoot on the ground, take off your glasses, sunglasses and contacts, and you will start getting set to the area that you are in the world.

[Alex Clark]

Is it okay if it's concrete?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Concrete is okay. Asphalt is not okay. And concrete, like on a third floor, not going to help you. It's got to be concrete on the ground.

[Alex Clark]

Is red light therapy the new frontier in health and wellness? Like, I mean, is this going to be a game changer for health?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I talked to Harvard University's Dr. Michael Hamblin. He is the United States expert on red light therapy. So he's the Harvard professor of light. He's done a ton of research on red light. And his direct quote is, very soon all Americans will have a red light in their home because they are so beneficial and the price is coming down so much.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, yeah. So I use joovv and I have for years. They're a sponsor on the show now. I mean, full disclosure, but I've used them for years before they became a sponsor. What is your thoughts on juve?

[Thaddeus Owen]

So almost all the red lights are very healing because red and infrared are the antidote to blue light.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So we should all be using red lights because we're all blue light toxic, Almost everybody. That's almost without exception. So juv lights are great. A lot of the red lights do very similar things. They have red and infrared. What you want to pay attention to is how intense they are. The higher the intensity light, the further away you want to stand and the less time you want to be in front of it. Because it's about how many red and infrared photons, light particles are hitting your body and being absorbed. When it's a really bright red light, you don't need as much time. When it's a softer, less intense red light, you need to be in front of it longer. The other thing that some of these red lights do is they reflect, especially us that are white. They like white skin. They'll reflect the red photons away from us and they won't go into our body. So the closer you are even touching the red light will get more of the red light into your body. But if it's a really intense, bright red light, I mean, sometimes, like if I'm using a Joov panel, five minutes.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

I only need five minutes.

[Alex Clark]

Five. Wow. So I'm doing 10. I'm doing morning and night. 10 minutes in front of Juve.

[Thaddeus Owen]

But you're not putting it directly on your body.

[Alex Clark]

I'm, like, sitting right in front of it, very close. Is that too much?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Eight minutes.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

It's fine.

[Alex Clark]

Should night owls force an early schedule?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Oh, this is very controversial. My opinion. Yes.

[Alex Clark]

Ooh.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So night owls do not have different biology than anybody else. Regardless of what you hear, their biology is the same as all men and women's biology. And we're tuned to be awake during the day and asleep at night. If they want to be optimally healthy, when they have the lights burning all night after dark, their body thinks that it's the long days of summer. It's forcing them to crave sugar to raise cortisol and be stressed, and actually helps create anxiety and depression and stops their melatonin production. So they might still sleep fine.

[Alex Clark]

They're really going to hate us.

[Thaddeus Owen]

But deep sleep is from 9 a. 9pm to midnight. That's when you get your most deep sleep. So if you're going to bed past midnight, you're almost never getting enough deep sleep.

[Alex Clark]

Yes. So let's say people want to take all of your tips and put it into practice. How long, realistically, does it take to fix your circadian rhythm?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Depends on how broken it is. It can take anywhere from a week to six weeks. So really six weeks at the. At the outset, people can do a leptin reset, a circadian rhythm reset, and it can take six weeks. And that's like if you're. If you've got a really broken circadian rhythm, Six weeks usually fixes it.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so three easy steps. Somebody should start today to fix their circadian rhythm and their optimal light diet.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Get outside as close to dawn or sunrise as possible and stay out there for a minimum of 10 minutes. 10 to 15 minutes is perfect. That's number one. Every study over and over and over shows that getting out at dawn fixes your sleep. Every study, insomnia. Get out at dawn. Very helpful. So get out at dawn every single day if you can. If you're in the car because you're driving to work, roll the window down. If you're at work and the sun rises after you're at work, if you can open a window, awesome. 10 minutes. Open the window. Like, turn the heat up a little bit or just go outside for 10 minutes. So dawn, sun, number one. Number two, eliminate the blue frequency of light at night.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

So whether you have Blue light blocking glasses on, or you're going to light with candles, or you're just going to go to bed earlier. Whatever it is, minimize or eliminate the amount of blue light you're exposed to at night. And finally, when it's winter, sleep at least nine and a half hours a night. It's hard.

[Alex Clark]

I mean, my natural, like, I feel like I'm a pretty good sleeper and it's seven and my body wakes up and I feel awake after seven hours.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Absolutely.

[Alex Clark]

So do you force yourself to go.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Back to sleep for two more hours if it's winter? I basically say, like, take half the year and get two hours more sleep than normal.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

In the summer, you can get away with five hours. There's long sunlight. You can do it. You'll feel good as long as you make up for it in the winter with more sleep. I do recommend you try to get more sleep in the winter for everybody. Even if you wake up and you feel great long term, that's not helping.

[Alex Clark]

Are you going to bed around 9pm.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Or like 8 in the middle of winter? In the Midwest, we go to bed between 7:45 and 8:30.

[Alex Clark]

Oh my gosh. Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

And then summer, summer, anywhere between 9 and 10pm and in the summer, we're up at 4:30am4:30 in the morning.

[Alex Clark]

And then what do you. You're just hanging out, working out and doing stuff.

[Thaddeus Owen]

The sun rises at like 4:45am and so we go outside and we see sunrise and we actually do some qigong. So we, we practice qigong. Okay, so we'll do qigong or some yoga outside and then have a little breakfast, take the dog for a walk. And then, you know, you got, if you want a morning routine, like, that's the time to do it.

[Alex Clark]

I interview so many people and, you know, it's very rare that you get to spend like actual time with them and overnights and, and travel. Okay. So one person that I've had on my show that I've gotten to extensively travel with now has been Hilda. Hilda practices what she preaches like no other. I. We shared an Airbnb together. This woman, I show up, she's already in bed because I get there dinner, she's already asleep, and there's red lights all over the bathroom. Like, and they were just. She had traveled with them, like string lights of red that she had plugged in so that she wasn't using big lights. She was waking up at like 5 in the morning or whatever to go outside barefoot for the sunrise. And it's it's cold out. I mean, I was like, wow, she really is doing this. Like, she's doing what she talks about on her podcast. It sounds like you do too. So I think that's interesting because I think a lot of people listen to this stuff and they're like, you know, this is so unrealistic. Nobody's doing it. And I think, no, there are people that are doing it. They're prioritizing it. I'm going to be honest with you and say right now, I have not prioritized waking up that early, you know, so I have a lot to work on. But some people really are doing it and I see the benefits. I mean, you. Hilda is like one of the healthiest people I know. And I mean, she's older, but you would never know it.

[Thaddeus Owen]

She's in her 60s, in her energy level, and how she more than me, it's. It's crazy.

[Alex Clark]

It's unreal. Like, she is up for anything. She's going to run into the ocean, she's going to go on a crazy hike. She's going to climb a mountain. She's like, she's up. She's game for anything. Always joyful, always high energy. I see the fruit in people that really do live this out. And so I just think you take this information and, you know, if you can't do exactly Thaddeus's routine perfectly, then, like, do as much of it as you can. See if you see an improvement, I feel like you probably will. Okay, so I ask every single guest on the show if you could offer one remedy to helicit culture. And it could be physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be?

[Thaddeus Owen]

I'm gonna go with my all time favorite that I tell everybody and when they do it. But it makes a huge difference spiritually too, because there's actually a Christian mystic from the early 1900s that would only teach verbally. He never wrote anything down, but somebody transcribed some of his stuff and you can now find it in book form. And I'll say the same thing that he said. Get outside every day at dawn for your spirit and for your health.

[Alex Clark]

Where can people find out more about you, follow you on social media and all that?

[Thaddeus Owen]

Yes. So Dreamwalkers AI on Instagram.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Thaddeus Owen]

And Dreamwalkers AI on the interwebs.

[Alex Clark]

Okay. And you have blue light blockers and all of this? We do.

[Thaddeus Owen]

We've tested, designed our own and we sell blue light blocking glasses. And then we also have free information about red and infrared light. We have a YouTube channel right now on Primalhacker. So if you go to Primalhacker on YouTube, we have a thousand videos, all for free, teaching you all these things.

[Alex Clark]

Thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary.

[Thaddeus Owen]

Absolutely. It's great to be here.

[Alex Clark]

Have you been influenced to change your bedtime or the lights in your house? I want to hear about it either in a five star review or the cute servatives Facebook group. If you're new here, I bring two guests a week on to offer their own remedy to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally or spiritually. Subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube and follow me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark. The show's there too, at Culture Apothecary. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.