← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
To Dye For: The Impact Of Artificial Food Dyes On Kids | Filmmakers Whitney and Brandon Cawood
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- [00:00]
Alex Clark
You guys are regular parents and your lives were completely turned upside down by.
- [00:05]
Brandon Wood
Food dyes most days. We had a child that was just really, really struggling to keep his hands to himself. Impulsivity, hitting and biting. It really kind of came to a head when his daycare asked us to leave. So I came across an article that suggested eliminating wheat and dairy and synthetic dyes. And within about 48 hours we saw a child that we had only seen glimpses of.
- [00:27]
Whitney K. Wood
There are a lot of cancer links to a lot of the dyes. When you start looking into red, Red three is crazy.
- [00:58]
Alex Clark
After discovering that their child has a life altering sensitivity to synthetic food dyes, parents and first time filmmakers Brandon and Whitney K. Wood decided to document their investigation looking into this mysterious ingredient the American government allows in our food and the impacts of synthetic dyes on the human body. Their brand new documentary To Die For. The documentary follows Brandon and Whitney as they embark on a journey to meet with the world's leading synthetic dye experts. Conducting in person interviews with scientists and researchers which ends up leading to an unexpected series of shocking stories and surprising discoveries. Their mission is to spread science based information to the public so that those affected by synthetic dyes can begin healing and real policy change can occur for our food. You can watch this stunning multi shot high definition podcast on YouTube by subscribing to Real Alex Clark. Did you know that this entire podcast is funded by donations from listeners like you who believe in our mission to helicit culture? It's true. Support this mission with a tax deductible donation with the link in the show notes. If you don't have it in the budget right now, no worries. A free 5 star review wherever you listen is another way to support the success of the show. Please welcome the filmmakers of To Die for the documentary Brandon and Whitney Kwood on culture Apothecary. People think that artificial food dye is only in junk food like candy. But what other common things is it hiding in that people would never think about?
- [02:33]
Brandon Wood
So it's oftentimes hidden in foods that you wouldn't expect. Like we found it in a mashed potato product, spinach wrap, vanilla icing, chocolate icing, fortune cookies, marshmallows. Marshmallows. And like so like white foods, brown foods like it. It really has permeated lots of foods and not just the colorful foods and.
- [02:56]
Alex Clark
Even household products like toothpaste, right?
- [02:59]
Brandon Wood
Yeah.
- [03:00]
Alex Clark
Is it true that there is artificial food diet in ADHD medications?
- [03:04]
Brandon Wood
For sure.
- [03:05]
Whitney K. Wood
That's what. And that's kind of a. It's one of those things, like you're treating something. A lot of times artificial dyes or synthetic dyes can cause ADHD type symptoms. And some people are misdiagnosed within. That medication has dye in it. So you're treating it and also, you know, compounding on top of it at the same time.
- [03:26]
Alex Clark
How much has the use of food dyes increased in our food since they first came on the scene?
- [03:32]
Whitney K. Wood
They've been using food dye for decades. And then, yeah, I think you started seeing commercials, like bright food food that changes your mouth colors. Like, I think the 80s and the 90s is kind of when it really exploded.
- [03:45]
Alex Clark
Because the 80s is when we took these people, these scientists from the cigarette companies, put them in charge of processed food and said, hey, we need you to make our food as addictive as possible. Do what you did to cigarettes, to our food. Get the next generation of kids addicted. And then remember growing up, we had all these like, it was like green ketchup and like, weird, crazy food dye stuff.
- [04:05]
Brandon Wood
Yeah. And even, do you remember that sunscreen, it was like, it goes on purple and then like soaks into your skin.
- [04:12]
Whitney K. Wood
Well, and if you think about it, processed food uses a lot of things, like artificial flavors. And so if you're going to make an A product, strawberry flavored, but not use actual strawberries, you're going to need something to color it to look like strawberries. And so, you know, the more processed food we had, obviously, like, the more food dyes used to make those processed foods.
- [04:31]
Alex Clark
And you guys are regular parents, you have two kids and your lives were completely turned upside down by food dyes. What happened to your family?
- [04:42]
Brandon Wood
So between the ages of like 1 and 3, our son was just really, honestly, like a mystery. It was kind of like Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. We weren't sure, like, what kid we were going to get most days. We had a child that was just really struggling to keep his hands to himself, Struggling with impulsivity, struggling with hitting and biting. And so parents listening, they might hear that and be like, okay, that's completely normal. But what was not normal was the amount of times it happened per day, the amount of times it happened per week. Honestly, his behavior was putting, like, such a stress on our family because everywhere we went, from his mother's morning out to church to just like play dates, it was happening all of the time. So we were doing behavior therapy, we were consulting doctors, we were trying to help him. It really kind of came to a head when his daycare asked us to leave. And so we were like, We've got to help him. So I started researching foods that could cause hyperactivity in kids. So I came across an article that suggested eliminating wheat and dairy and synthetic dyes. He was kind of like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, where we were having, like, these really, really rough days where he was struggling to control his impuls, the biting, the hitting. And then we would have some days where he was a completely different kid. Like, he was very easy to reason with. It was. There was no hitting. It was just. He was just such an easy kid to parent. And so we eliminated the wheat, we eliminated the dairy, we eliminated the synthetic dyes. Within 48 hours. That kid that we had seen glimpses of on those good days, we had that kid for 30 days straight.
- [06:18]
Alex Clark
Whoa, that is incredible that you even thought to start Googling, you know, what foods could cause hyperactivity.
- [06:26]
Brandon Wood
Yeah, it was crazy.
- [06:28]
Whitney K. Wood
So she has a lot of. Of dietary issues and allergies and stuff. So she had done elimination diets in the past. And so we're like, maybe, you know, she thought maybe it could be something he's eating. I was much more skeptical. I was like, there's no way that these things could have anything to do with what's going on.
- [06:45]
Alex Clark
And how soon when you started consulting with behavior specialists and doctors, were they trying to push medication on child?
- [06:53]
Brandon Wood
They had asked us to have him evaluated several times, and so we weren't really keen on that because we had those days that were so good, it kind of felt like a diagnosis doesn't really, like, turn on and off. And he was only three at the time, so we were going to give it until he was 6 and just try to help him as best we could. So when we reintroduced the wheat, we saw no effect. When we reintroduced the dairy, we saw no effect. But when we reintroduced synthetic dyes, within 15 minutes, the behaviors that we had been seeing came flooding back. So he went from having 30 days straight of just. This child was very easy to reason with. The hitting stopped, the fit stopped. And then when we reintroduced synthetic dyes, within 15 minutes, all of that behavior came flooding back.
- [07:33]
Alex Clark
In 15 minutes, you can notice effects in your child from food dye Massive.
- [07:37]
Brandon Wood
Yeah. And so not every child is that sensitive, but our child is. It was crazy and a trait. And Brandon was obviously a skeptic. And so when we reintroduced those foods, we were like. I mean, it was. It was crazy. We really. It really, like, won him over.
- [07:53]
Whitney K. Wood
Well, like, it completely changed our household. You know, we had peace that we hadn't had in, you Know, months. She was really stressed out. She felt like she was failing as a mother. And so, like, to just take this teeny, little tiny thing out of his, like, diet to make such a big impact was huge.
- [08:09]
Alex Clark
How vindicated did you feel when you realized, okay, it's not me failing as a mom. I am a great mom. It was this food the entire time. Like, was that just a huge burden lifted off your shoulders?
- [08:21]
Brandon Wood
Oh, for sure. I mean, that. The way that I felt, it was, like, such a dark place as a mom. And then when we were able to uncover who our child really was, like, this is who God made our child to be and dies. Were creating a child that. I mean, he was not created to be that child. Synthetic dyes were. Were. Were giving him sadness. It was affecting his ability to connect with his friends, affecting his ability to connect with teachers, affecting his ability, you know, to feel good about himself. I mean, even at 3, like, he felt bad. He knew that, you know, not doing things that he was supposed to do. So the most surprising part about. About our journey is that he was not regularly getting synthetic dyes and, like, the sugary cereals and the sugary pastries, like, on. On the daily. Like, he was only consuming synthetic dyes from his daily allergy medicine. And so we were shocked that, you know, when we did the elimination diet, I would assume that the wheat and the dairy would have more of an effect because he. He consumes that so much of that. So when we uncovered that, you know, daily, he's just getting it through his daily allergy medicine, or if he was on a prescription medication or, like, the occasional birthday party, but, like, he was not consuming that much dye regularly to help my child go from, you know, a child that we thought we maybe needed to homeschool for him and for other children to, like, he is thriving. And when I mean thriving, like, it's. It's on. Honestly, almost like an unbelievable story. Like, he's had two years in public school.
- [09:53]
Alex Clark
How do you handle the. The food that they're served? Because even milk and stuff in public school, the cafeteria has food dyes. So what do you do? You just pack all his lunches?
- [10:02]
Brandon Wood
I think it's different at every school. At our school, we haven't come across a ton of dyes in the lunchroom, but it is great. It does creep in at breakfast. Like, lunch is not as big of a deal at our school, but breakfast, it does creep in. So we do. We pack lunch, we send birthday swaps. So I send frozen cupcakes that are Dye free that we make together. So it's just a sweet moment with us and we send that and we. They keep it in the freezer. And then we also send like, chip swaps or like, what, whatever they have at birthday parties. So the teachers keep us in the loop. We send his lunch every day. Honestly, for us, the school has not been an issue. Our school has been on board. Even our school board is, you know, working to try to minimize the amount of dies in, in our school. So for, for us, our school board has been on board and our school system's been on board. But I, I have heard horror stories about certain schools and about how dyes have really permeated even like lunch, like the spaghetti's, the pizzas, the, the fruit. And so we know that it's there.
- [11:05]
Alex Clark
Yeah. Even fruit cups, even fruit cups could have artificial dye. Could you share one of the hardest days that you experienced in the thick of this?
- [11:15]
Whitney K. Wood
I would say probably the day that his school first told us that there was an issue, like we did, we weren't super aware that he was having the issues he was at school until they brought it up. And so to find out that, you know, kids aren't wanting to play with him and that, you know, that he's having issues, that was really hard. It's hard to hear that kind of stuff about your kid because, you know, you see the best in them and, like, you see their potential. And so you never want it, like, you never want your kid to struggle like that.
- [11:45]
Alex Clark
So how can you be sure that it was artificial dyes and not something else? Because there might be some people that are like, that's insane. You know, it could have been anything else that was aggravating his behavior.
- [11:55]
Brandon Wood
Yeah. So something we've noticed is, or something that has kind of been affirming to us is we will, we'll have days like Halloween where we will go trick or treating. We'll do all the things, and then we will let him consume way more sugar and way more, like, processed foods than we normally would. And like, he's completely normal. And if he consumes just a small amount of dyes, like we had an incident where I was. This was before I knew that dyes could be in, like, white foods and brown foods.
- [12:27]
Alex Clark
And so wait, artificial food dye can be in white food and brown food?
- [12:32]
Brandon Wood
Yeah, like marshmallows or, or some chocolates. Most chocolate is dye free, but there will be. There are some chocolates that have dyes.
- [12:40]
Whitney K. Wood
There's a, there's a muffin mix that we have that. It's like a strawberry and blueberry muffins. We bought it when we were shooting the film. And the little actual berries aren't actually.
- [12:49]
Brandon Wood
Made of fruit or are they berries? What are they? Okay, so a good example of how I know it's a dye. So we have dye free marshmallows, and the ingredients are exactly the same as the marshmallows that have dyes. But we had an incident where he consumed one mini marshmallow. And this was before I knew that white foods could have dye in it. And so he ate one mini marshmallow. And I immediately flipped it over and I looked at the ingredients and I was like, blue. When. Why would there be a dye in this? And so, like, I didn't tell his teacher and it, it would be over 24 hours later. So I just sent him to school. And the teacher met me outside on that day and she was like, we've never had a day like this. He was, he was defiant. He was throwing things, he was throwing toys. He was one marshmallow, one mini marshmallow. And then to contrast that, I mean, we, we are avid campers. I love being outside. And something that we do is we obviously do s'mores when we're camping. And so we consume marshmallows. And it has almost the exact same ingredients other than, you know, the blue one. And there's, there's no effect there. So for us, it's pretty obvious. And the fact that we have had so many people reach out to us and so many people that have had the same experience, I mean, that's pretty affirming for us.
- [14:03]
Alex Clark
So when in this journey did you decide we should make a freaking documentary to film our journey and investigate artificial food dyes in America?
- [14:13]
Brandon Wood
I started becoming really, like, obsessed with what's going on in the brain. I was digging into research. I was trying to figure it out. My degree is in education, so I did not have a lot of background knowledge about, you know, the biology of what's happening. So I was really confused. Even reading the abstract of this research, I was confused. And I wanted to speak to researchers and, and ask the questions that I had to try to figure out, like, what is going on? Like, why is this even a thing? Once I started considering reaching out to researchers, I asked Brand. He would document our journey because we really feel like God has given us the talents, the ability to, to create a film that could get this information out. And there's so many people that have the same questions. So we obviously, it Took some convincing, but here we are.
- [15:02]
Alex Clark
And how long was the filming process?
- [15:03]
Whitney K. Wood
We've been working on it for about two years. And we, we just finished up like the final edit.
- [15:09]
Alex Clark
So I think what's, what was really shocking to me watching the movie was we know that synthetic dyes have been proven to have really alarming neurological impacts. I did not realize until your film how harmful they are to the body. Could you talk about that?
- [15:26]
Whitney K. Wood
There's a lot of studies that show that they are, you know, like you said, hyperactivity, sleeplessness, restlessness. I think probably one of the most concerning things is like, you know, there are a lot of cancer links to a lot of the, the, a lot of the different dyes. And specifically when you start looking into red three. Red three is crazy.
- [15:47]
Alex Clark
Yeah. I just learned about Red three because this is a food dye that the government said, you know what, this is so dangerous. We know it causes cancer, so it is not allowed in our cosmetics, but it's totally fine. We're just going to keep putting it in our food. What is going on with that? How can the government say we know that this causes cancer. Not allowed in makeup, but, but it's okay to eat it.
- [16:10]
Whitney K. Wood
What's even crazier about that is the studies that they did to come to that conclusion came from feeding it to animals. And then, you know, the animals got tumors. And so they banned it in cosmetics and externally applied drugs, but they didn't ban it in food. And the reason for that is, is because it had already been permanently approved for food and ingested drugs.
- [16:29]
Alex Clark
So why can't we just go back and be like, just kidding, we have new research. We, we found out it's super harmful to ingest.
- [16:34]
Whitney K. Wood
For whatever reason, the FDA felt like they couldn't ban it at the same time and have been saying for the past 34 years that they're going to take steps to ban it in food and internally, which is before we were.
- [16:45]
Brandon Wood
Born, to put that into perspective.
- [16:47]
Whitney K. Wood
Well, not before I was born. Before she was born.
- [16:49]
Alex Clark
Mean her, Mean her.
- [16:51]
Whitney K. Wood
But yeah, so they've been saying for the past 34 years that they're going to take steps and they've just kind of drugged their feet. And so I think in 2023, California became the first state to just take the steps on their own and Ban Red 3 along with some other chemicals. Now there's a couple other states that are kind of following suit that have bills on the table trying to ban Red 3. And I think Red 3 is the low hanging fruit right because there is this thing with the F where the FDA has said it causes cancer, but I think it's going to be kind of like the first step. And I think California right now also has another bill on the table where they're banning it or they're trying to get all synthetic dyes banned in schools. So.
- [17:29]
Alex Clark
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- [22:00]
Whitney K. Wood
But.
- [22:01]
Alex Clark
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- [24:16]
Brandon Wood
So we've actually focused more on like the nine synthetic dyes that have been approved. Okay. Caramel color is a little bit different. I did have that question with researchers and what the conclusion that they came to is that that caramel color can be made in very different ways. And some of them can be cancer causing.
- [24:35]
Alex Clark
Right.
- [24:36]
Brandon Wood
So I avoid them unless it's organic because the way it's made organically is very different than the way it's made synthetically. So.
- [24:42]
Alex Clark
Okay, that's good to know that if it says organic caramel color, that's not as bad. I think one thing that would really shock Americans is the lack of testing that goes into additives that are added to our food. You would think, like, oh my gosh, that it must go through all these tests and experiments before it added. But how much testing is really going on with things that are being added to our food?
- [25:06]
Whitney K. Wood
Companies can do their own research, say that this food or this additive is, falls under the generally recognized as safe protocols, and it can go straight to the market. And the FDA doesn't have to look at or anything like that. Luckily, synthetic dyes are not part of that list and they've never been part of that list. What's crazy about synthetic dyes is they're actually extremely regulated. So every single bat batch of synthetic dye has to send a sample into the FDA to be tested to make sure that it has the allowable amounts of like, carcinogens and heavy metals and things like that.
- [25:39]
Brandon Wood
The allowable amounts.
- [25:41]
Alex Clark
That's what I'm stuck on. And, and how do other countries view foods that are potential carcinogens?
- [25:49]
Brandon Wood
I think every country is different. Like, if you compare the United States to like Europe, there are different foods that are banned in each country. What what's different about Europe is that specifically with synthetic dyes, the government funded a study to look at the neurologic impacts of synthetic dyes. And because they saw an effect there with the general population. So this was. Many of the studies at that time had been done on children that had ADHD or an underlying condition. So they took students from the general population, they tested them, and they saw that synthetic dyes had an effect on their behavior. Europe has a warning label. So foods that have azo dyes, so that's red 40, yellow 5, and yellow 6. Those dyes bear a warning label in Europe. And those are the dyes that are used most often in our food. And so what manufacturers have done is they have decided to opt out of using those using the warning label. And they have reformulated their products for Europe, but they've left the same formula for the U. S. So you can have an American company that has one formula for Europe and a different formula for the US and that's because they have different regulations.
- [27:01]
Alex Clark
So when the United States government sees that Europe has done this, why can't they take that information and say, okay, well, here's, here's the study. We know what it does. We're not going to allow that in our own country.
- [27:14]
Whitney K. Wood
So what's crazy is at the time, around the time that, that Europe made that decision. Decision, and the European Union made that decision, the FDA did form a food advisory board. And so Lisa, who's in our documentary, and I'm just paraphrasing the things that she told me so she, she was part of this food advisory board. And like, so they, they looked at the studies, they looked at the information, and eventually they, you know, they asked them like, a very pointed question at the time, and like, they asked if they could reword it, but it was like a very important question, like, and they're like, can you say without a shadow of a doubt that food, diet is a causal. There's a causal relationship between food diet and hyperactivity. And based off everything at that time, they weren't able to say, like, for sure. But what's crazy is Lisa said if they had that same food advisory now with like, the OEHA report and things like that, that they would very easily be able to say, yes, well, and.
- [28:09]
Brandon Wood
They cannot take into consideration what Europe has done. And the problem is they have one chemical that has already been banned in the US in that study. So they've just kind of thrown the baby out with the bath water. And so they, yeah, they're Just relying on the studies that have been done here in the US but also about.
- [28:27]
Whitney K. Wood
That food advisory board. So, like, the FDA has a lot of advisory boards when it comes to, like, the pharmaceutical side. They currently have no advisory boards on food with the stuff in Europe and the European Union. So when we went to London, this was kind of crazy for us to see. So we went to London to interview Dr. Stevenson, who's the researcher who's kind of responsible for that study in the warning label in the east eu. But London is no longer part of the European Union. So while we were in London, we're like, maybe we'll be able to get all these, like, foods and stuff that we can take home and film that don't have dye in it in Europe in London. But we started looking. Most of the American manufacturers in London have put dyes back in.
- [29:04]
Alex Clark
Oh, my gosh. You're kidding me. How do food companies pressure the FDA lobbyist?
- [29:10]
Whitney K. Wood
I mean, that's what. That's what we've heard. They're. There's. Any time that they've tried to make any kind of change, there's always companies saying it's either gonna, you know, it's gonna damage them too much, like monetarily or lobbyists, you know, say that. Well, there's no proof that they're bad, they're safe. The FDA says they're safe, or it's racist.
- [29:30]
Alex Clark
If. If you do that, they make up all kinds of crazy stuff. Yeah, yeah. And then the problem is, is that then they bring them a stack of studies and say, well, read all these studies. And, you know, these average, everyday congressmen are like, okay, I don't know. I'm in the mid. Where, Alabama. I don't know how to, like, look at these studies. And if you're giving them to me, I guess if it's a study, it must be legit. And they don't even know that, you know, the food companies themselves are funding the studies. So it's just this entire cycle of corruption and confusion for them. Which Americans are suffering the most from these policies?
- [30:05]
Brandon Wood
I mean, it's definitely Americans in poverty. The WEHA report is. Is the. The best report that we have on synthetic dyes. And it actually states in that report that, you know, women and children in poverty, they are exposed to more dyes than obviously, people who are not in poverty, particularly children of color. So, I mean, that's definitely who's suffering here. It's. It's the children.
- [30:32]
Alex Clark
And do you think that's because of what is allowed on Our food stamps because it's people in poverty that are using snacks app, the food stamp program and all of those items, those processed food items which are more likely to have artificial dye are subsidized by the government. So we're making it cheaper and more accessible for poor people. Well, what we're going to make affordable for you is the food dye food.
- [30:55]
Brandon Wood
Yeah, I think there's a lot of reasons, I think that probably plays into it. We've also noticed just anecdotally doing our own research, when we go to stores like the Dollar Tree, it is so much easier to find dyes in places like seasonings and mashed potato packets and places that you wouldn't find it at, like a Kroger. So that has been shocking to us. But also you have children that if they are in an inner city school and so they have a government funded program and they oftentimes most of the food that they consume are food foods that they eat at school. So if you have a breakfast, that's an option that has dyes, you can't say no to that. Like you need to eat, obviously a child needs to be fed. So I think there's less options. I think you have less accessibility to stores that are dye free, like Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Aldi has a lot of good die free options. So oftentimes people in poverty don't have those options where they live. So I think that it's a very complex issue, obviously, but I mean that's a big motivation for me. Like I, I taught elementary school in an inner city school and I mean I have children that were really struggling. Synthetic dyes are not on their radar. Reading labels is not on their radar. I had several students that their parents immigrated here and were illiterate in their own language and obviously in English. So I mean that's, they don't know. And so, so I think that the FDA at one point had said, you know, if you're concerned about dyes, just read labels. And I think that's a really unfair.
- [32:34]
Alex Clark
Statement because when are we teaching? I mean the freaking food pyramid that we grew up with was all a lie. It was all in advertisement propaganda. So then, and then you're, you're expecting people, oh just we'll read the labels, understand what they mean. But you know, they'll give Sugar, for example, 20 different names, weird long names that you can't even pronounce. And people are supposed to know that. I mean it's just unbelievably unfair. That's what I'm trying to do with this podcast is make this information more accessible to American parents so that they can understand and just people in general, but not only parents. This benefits anybody. If you're eating then, which is anybody. Now, one thing that I think is interesting is that you talked about how states like California are making it a mission to ban food dyes entirely. And I guess when I first heard that news, I just thought, I mean, that's wonderful if you live in California or you live in whatever state. But actually in your documentary, you talk about how this, this is really crucial and this makes a massive difference. Why would a state like California banning food dyes just for them actually be beneficial and positively affect all of the other states?
- [33:36]
Whitney K. Wood
Well, if you look at the economy, California has a very big economy. And it's. It's said that if California were its own country, that it would be the fifth largest economy in the world. So it's about 11% of the US population. So if you look at the. That if a company has to make a version of their food just for California, are they going to make that version and sell California version there and sell something else everywhere else? Most like. I mean, they can. It's possible, but most likely they're going to change their formula and change it for the whole country. Why would they want to have one version just for California and one version for everywhere else? So I think the hope is, like, if California. This happens in California, even if the other states don't necessarily do the exact same thing, some companies are going to start taking it out. And we've actually already seen it. I think Pediasure has now officially, like, taken Red 3 out of Pediasure.
- [34:29]
Alex Clark
Pediasure had food dye?
- [34:31]
Whitney K. Wood
Yeah, Red 3.
- [34:32]
Alex Clark
And that's. Doctors are going to tell parents to give that to your kids.
- [34:35]
Whitney K. Wood
We have a. We have a Facebook group that we run and somebody posted a shelf and this was really weird and random to see, but they had posted a little printout from a printer that said, PD sure no longer has Red 3 in it.
- [34:47]
Brandon Wood
Great.
- [34:47]
Whitney K. Wood
So, yeah.
- [34:48]
Alex Clark
Okay. Have you guys heard these rumors that they are changing the names of food dyes to be something else to even create more confusion with the consumer so that they don't know it's food dyes in the product?
- [34:59]
Whitney K. Wood
So we have seen that and we have reached out to our sources and we don't think that's factual.
- [35:07]
Alex Clark
Okay.
- [35:08]
Whitney K. Wood
So, like, the names that they're saying they're changing to, those are. Those are names, alternative names of these dyes.
- [35:14]
Alex Clark
So it's not new.
- [35:15]
Whitney K. Wood
It's not new. So those, a lot of those names are used in other countries like the Allure Red and the Sunset Yellow and things like that. Those have been around for a long time and they're used in other countries. The FDA requires if it's manufactured in America that it has to have that. The, the red, the color and the number system. So like red 40, yellow five.
- [35:32]
Alex Clark
Okay. So it's kind of like Internet. They're kind of getting it warped and it's. So we don't need to be super scared and alarmed. I think that's good. Some good news. Finally.
- [35:41]
Whitney K. Wood
We never give good news unless there's something happening under the surface. And you know, I feel like the people that we have been working with with our film, it would be something on their radar.
- [35:50]
Alex Clark
Yeah. Okay, great. Well, that's good then. I mean, you know, I was worried about that, but yeah, that's.
- [35:54]
Whitney K. Wood
It's popped up everywhere. We run that Facebook page and so we haven't let the. Well, there's like tons of them posting every single day, so it's crazy.
- [36:00]
Alex Clark
What's the name of your Facebook group?
- [36:02]
Brandon Wood
So it's Dye Free Family swaps recipes and resources.
- [36:09]
Alex Clark
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- [38:55]
Brandon Wood
I mean, you have to learn how to read a label. And so just memorizing what the dyes are is obviously important. But you look for a color in a number like red 40, yellow 5, yellow 6. It's usually located kind of at the bottom of the ingredients. So I always start at the bottom and then go up and so I just think reading labels is the most important thing you can do. As a rule of thumb, anything, anything that's organic cannot have synthetic dyes. Synthetic dyes are synthetically made, therefore they cannot be organic. So I would say that that would, would be my biggest tip is just to learn how to read labels and then to find swaps that you love. Because there, there's a swap for nearly.
- [39:35]
Alex Clark
Everything for snack items that kids love. Like they love fruit roll ups and, and things like that. What are some brands that you really like that are dye free?
- [39:43]
Brandon Wood
I really love Trader Joe's brand. Okay, not everyone has a Trader Joe's.
- [39:48]
Whitney K. Wood
But Trader Joe like doesn't. Their food does not have dye in it. So like you can go into Trader Joe confidently shop. Your kids can pick out candy.
- [39:57]
Alex Clark
Well they do have seed oils, so that's another thing. But that's good to know about dyes. That's good to know about dyes. Are there any other just snack brands you're like, I really like them.
- [40:05]
Brandon Wood
I mean a lot of, a lot of families love like Annie's. Annie's is a good one. Simple Meals, Simple Mill, Whole Foods, I love Whole Foods. They're, they're dye free.
- [40:17]
Alex Clark
They're like their in house brand, that 365 brand or whatever. How likely is it that Americans will see artificial food dye completely banned within.
- [40:27]
Brandon Wood
Our lifetime in America? I don't know that it's going to be a full ban. I think it'd be more likely that we would follow Europe and have a warning label which would, you know, do a lot to protect, affect Americans. I do think that, that synthetic dyes that are known to be carcinogenic or synthetic dyes that are known to be genotoxic, I think they have a better case to have them completely banned. So I think something that a lot of people who are looking into synthetic dyes may not come across is that some of these dyes can be genotoxic. So if a chemical or an additive is genotoxic, that means that it can damage the DNA, which can lead to a tumor or it can lead to damage that can be pathogens pass from mother to child. So say your child is consuming a synthetic dye that's genotoxic. It could damage their DNA and then could affect them, but then also could be passed to their child. So that part to me was really shocking because a lot of families, they say, okay, well my child doesn't, I haven't noticed a neurologic reaction. But really none of Us should be consuming synthetic dyes daily especially.
- [41:32]
Alex Clark
So does your child that is sensitive to food, diet, does he know when he's in public or he's at a play date or a birthday party, does he say, oh, I can't have dye? Or, like, does he. Has he learned that now?
- [41:45]
Brandon Wood
He is literally the sweetest child ever. And he's like, he's very much a firstborn. Like, he is a leader, and he reads his labels. He doesn't want to consume synthetic dyes, and that's not the case for every child. That's just the case with him. He doesn't like the way it makes him feel. So he. He actually has not eaten synthetic dyes in two years. But, yeah, he. He reads his own lab, and he always asks, and he's his own best advocate.
- [42:09]
Whitney K. Wood
We have a great story that I think Whitney should share. When we were teaching him about stranger danger.
- [42:13]
Brandon Wood
Okay, so we. We have two children. So I have one child that is two years younger than Atreyu Aslan. And we were going to the park, and I was trying to teach him about stranger danger because I had to kind of stick with my little one more. So I was teaching him, you know, what to do and what not to do if somebody approaches you and comes to talk to you. You. And so I asked him, I was like, okay, Atrey, you, like, what would you do if someone came up to you and said, like, I have a puppy and some candy in the car, like, you want to come see it? And he said, does it have food dye in it that'll keep him away? And I was like, no. Yes, but no.
- [42:50]
Alex Clark
Like, that is so precious and so adorable. Oh, my gosh. I didn't know either. I thought it was interesting and really helpful. You interview a lot of other families who have experience negative effects on their child's behavior because of synthetic food dye. And one common thing that the people that you interview kept saying was that their kids, little, little kids would describe. They go, oh, Mommy, my brain is buzzing. My brain is buzzing, or my brain is fuzzy or things like that, like, they, It. They feel it like it's cooking their brains. And I thought that was an interesting thing, that maybe if your child ever says, oh, mom, my brain is buzzing, or things like that, like, maybe they have an adverse reaction to food. Die.
- [43:34]
Whitney K. Wood
It's possible for sure. I feel like, yeah. And I think a running theme is, like, they just didn't. A lot of times they didn't feel comfortable. You know, it's like a, you know, just a feeling inside them that they, they didn't feel comfort comfortable in their own body, whether it was like their clothes. Some people had like problems with like scratching themselves. And it's, you know, that did seem to be a common theme. And I think in our film we are interviewing, you know, like, like Whitney said atrey you his reaction isn't like the norm. So there it's, everything's like a spectrum. So like everybody's on the spectrum where some people might ingest food dyes and it might affect them, but it affects them so little that you, you don't notice.
- [44:14]
Alex Clark
And then did you speak to people that had kids with autism and food dyes that how they, it affects autism or do you know anything we have.
- [44:21]
Whitney K. Wood
In our, in our group, we have encountered that a lot, but not in that actual documentary.
- [44:25]
Alex Clark
What have you heard about families that end up getting rid of food dyes for kids with autism and how their symptoms do so?
- [44:30]
Brandon Wood
Just anecdot families have come to us and said they've eliminated dyes in their child with adhd, autism, even Tourette syndrome. Oh, we just anecdotally they have said removing dyes has helped with this area. So we, we know from there's been so many studies that have, you know, shown that it can make hyperactivity, aggression, sleeplessness, things like that worse. But the, these other aspects have not really been studied. So it's my personal opinion that there are probably a lot of areas that this is affecting, like our mind and our brain that we just haven't like, delve into. But the families that we've talked to, we've had several families that have reached out and said, yes, my child with autism reacted in this way. And so for a lot of families, like Brandon said, it's a sliding scale. And so like, if your child is already here in kind of the danger zone, adding synthetic dyes is going to push them even more. And for, for a lot of kids, it kind of adds that level of aggression and irritability. And if you can just remove that, like, you can really get to the root of, of, you know, what, what issues your child has. And so one of the moms that we interview, her child does have ADHD as well. And so that's what she has echoed is that, you know, they eliminated dyes first, actually, and then after they eliminated dies, they could really get to the root of how to help her son. So that, that's been beautiful.
- [45:50]
Alex Clark
But was there anything in the making of this documentary that even surprised you guys that you learned new everything really?
- [45:59]
Brandon Wood
Yeah. So we went into this, I started the research and I felt very overwhelmed. But once we decided to make a documentary, I was like, okay, no, more like I just have all these questions and I want to ask the researchers because I didn't want to go into this knowing more than, like the average person would know. Because if you go into an interview and you know more than the average person, you're asking questions that are higher, higher level questions than, you know, the average person would have. And we really want our film to be something that anyone can digest. Digest something that anyone can understand. So every aspect of this documentary has been surprising to me personally. What was most surprising to me is when we sat down in our first interview, we started asking our questions and the researcher referred to synthetic dyes as a chemical. And that, I mean, for your audience, that may not be surprising to them, but for me, I did not even, I had no idea, never thought about what are synthetic dyes. And so she described how some of them are made, and some of them are made as a byproduct of petroleum, which is insane. And so the fact that we have chemicals in our food, and especially chemicals like synthetic dyes, that we have so many studies and we know that it's causing issues, that was surprising to me.
- [47:10]
Whitney K. Wood
Well, and we don't talk about grass in our documentary, but that was learning about the grass loophole, which.
- [47:15]
Alex Clark
What does that stand for again?
- [47:16]
Whitney K. Wood
Generally recognized as safe.
- [47:18]
Alex Clark
Okay. Generally recognized as safe.
- [47:20]
Whitney K. Wood
And you can go to the FDA website and there's a list of things that fall in the grass list. And it's.
- [47:24]
Alex Clark
And that's.
- [47:25]
Whitney K. Wood
And what's. I think one that was initially brought to the market on the grass list was like the brominated vegetable oil.
- [47:33]
Alex Clark
Yes. That just got banned.
- [47:34]
Whitney K. Wood
It just got banned. Yeah. So it originally came onto the market under that list. And I think, I do think the FDA removed it from the grass list at some point. And then they, the California, like the band that banned Red 3, that was also on there for California. And I think that caused it to be looked at again.
- [47:52]
Alex Clark
I mean, I always just what I. And, and this is really what started me on this journey in the first place of like investigating what's allowed in our food. But I always go back to people that are skeptical and they think like, oh my gosh, you guys are woo woo weirdos. Because I get that all the time. Like, this is insane. It's just food, you know, And I'm like, okay, you know what else? Doctors were saying cigarettes were safe. They also said oxycontin was not addictive. We have a history of the FDA in our government approving things that are so damaging and harmful our health when it comes to our food products or other, you know, chemicals or things allowed in, in personal care products. This, this, there, this is a documented thing that they say yes and give a thumbs up to a lot of things that end up getting pulled later. Trans fats. Trans fats. Also another thing. You know, now they make sure on every label says no trans fats in this. Well, that was allowed at one point. Then everybody started dropping dead from heart attacks.
- [48:46]
Whitney K. Wood
So everybody's like, well, the FDA says that they're safe. Like you're saying there's this history of them of something being labeled as safe. And then years later, oh, we were wrong, let's ban it. So, like, I don't think you can all. You can't just look at a government agency and say, well, they say it's safe, we should be able to eat it.
- [49:03]
Brandon Wood
Yeah.
- [49:03]
Alex Clark
By the way, the rule of thumb on this podcast is that you never look at the government and trust everything they say is good. If the government says we're here to help, then you turn the other way, you slam the door, because it's basically never the case. So what are the steps a parent can take today to determine if food dyes are, are causing bad behavior in their children?
- [49:22]
Brandon Wood
The best way to determine if your child is having a neurologic reaction to synthetic dyes would be to obviously eliminate all the synthetic dyes. So I would go through your pantry.
- [49:30]
Alex Clark
Go through your refrigerator, even seasoning, check that like every single item in your, in your house, basically there's a lot.
- [49:38]
Whitney K. Wood
Of lemon pepper seasoning that have viola dyes in it.
- [49:40]
Alex Clark
So. Okay, see, I didn't even know that. And check the toothpaste and, and floss, maybe, I don't know, colored floss, pot possibly.
- [49:46]
Brandon Wood
Yeah, and even like the toothpaste. I mean, if you eliminate it in food, you're going to see like a massive change if your child is reactive. I mean, there's two ways you can do it. What we did is we just, I mean, we went through everything. We, we really didn't find it very many things. But our intention was to throw out everything that had synthetic dyes. But you could also do it slowly. And as you run out, you can buy, find swaps that are very, that are similar to what your children and what you already love, but just eliminate it. I would say give it 30 days. And I would keep a journal and see how your child's doing. Honestly, I would say feel good and then keep moving forward. But if you wanted to test it like we did, you can, you can test it. But even if your child doesn't react neurologically, like, there's so many benefits of.
- [50:32]
Alex Clark
Getting rid of them.
- [50:33]
Brandon Wood
Yeah. And another benefit of eliminating synthetic dyes is the swaps oftentimes have less chemicals in it in general. So it's normally a safer swap even going farther than synthetic dyes. So I would say just start to read labels. You can do it. It's really overwhelming at first. Even for us, it was overwhelming because everywhere you go, restaurants, birthday parties, you have to think about your next move. But the reality is it's. Things start off hard and then you find your rhythm and it's not hard. And you can do it and just step by step, you can figure it out. And if you, like, have a slip up, like, it's totally okay. Like, just keep moving forward.
- [51:11]
Alex Clark
Yeah. What do you do? You just have to, like, wait it out for the behavior to subside. If he accidentally has a marshmallow again or what?
- [51:18]
Brandon Wood
Yeah. So he hasn't consumed synthetic dyes in two years. But what he does sometimes react to is like play DOH or markers being on his hands. And so we obviously just wash them off and we do like an ebbs and salt bath and play DOH and markers.
- [51:31]
Alex Clark
That's another thing I would not think.
- [51:32]
Whitney K. Wood
Well, if you think about it, skin is, is your. The largest organ on your body and your skin absorbs things. And so, like, and the way we, the way we realized that was we were on vacation in Florida. We were at a restaurant and like, the waiter gave us like a little temporary tattoo and so we put it on him right there at the table.
- [51:47]
Alex Clark
No. And then he went like Tasmanian devil in the restaurant.
- [51:51]
Brandon Wood
So he had. We had eliminated dyes for about a year at that point, and he had not had a reaction like that in. In a year. And at the table, he had a massive fit over something so trivial. It was. He wanted to go to the boys bathroom inst. The girl's bathroom with me. And so he just like, lost it. And we were like, what is going on? You know, everybody has bad days. So we were like, maybe he's just like having a rough day. He's over stimulated. But it, it continued. And then we were, we finally looked down and we were like, oh, my gosh, can. Can dyes be absorbed through your skin? And I, I do want to preface this by saying there have not been any studies on if Dyes can be absorbed through the skin, but just that is what we have noticed in, in our child.
- [52:30]
Alex Clark
So if you guys could give any remedy to heal a sick culture, and that could be physically, mentally, spiritually, whatever you want, what would it be?
- [52:38]
Brandon Wood
I think what has been transformative in my life as a Christian is like being in the Word daily. That is the most powerful, most beautiful place that you can set yourself. And, and even in being, in being in the Word, I would say go through one book of the Bible at a time, and I spend a week on an entire chapter. And I really think about the cultural context, what God is saying about what, what God is asking me to do in my life, but also what is this saying about God? So I would say be in the Word. That's the best thing you can absolutely do to heal your soul. And like, even, even in the Bible, like, it tells us, you know, how to conduct our life, how to have a healthy life, how to get outside and to our body as a temple and how to have gratitude and all of that. Everything that will heal your life is right there, like in the Bible. So I would say just like digging again.
- [53:33]
Whitney K. Wood
And I would say just the importance of moving, walking, running, getting out daily. Like shooting this film, I. I ended up sitting a lot.
- [53:47]
Alex Clark
Yeah. To edit.
- [53:48]
Whitney K. Wood
Yeah. I mean, this film is literally made by just me and Whitney. We're the only people, like, obviously the people that we filmed and they're on the camera. But as far as making the film, we've done it all and a lot.
- [53:55]
Alex Clark
That is so incredible, you guys.
- [53:57]
Whitney K. Wood
And a lot of that has fallen on me. And so I've spent the past two, two years having to sit a lot. And so now that we're, you know, towards the end of it, I'm finally getting to get out and run again and like, and move around and not have so much on my plate all the time. And like, I just feel so much better. Like my sleep's better, like everything's better. So, yeah, it's like, it's crazy. Like the amount of, like the small amount that your body needs if you, you know, if you get up, get out and walk every day for 30 minutes, how much that can add to your life?
- [54:24]
Alex Clark
How can people watch your movie and follow you? For more info on artificial dies.
- [54:29]
Whitney K. Wood
So if you go to our website To Die for the Documentary, and that's D Y E To Die for the Documentary dot com, you can see there'll be links to all the platforms that we're on and hopefully we're on one that you, you like to watch. And also we have resources and things on the website that you can use that will help you with eliminating dies, with writing politicians, with writing your school boards, all that sort of stuff. So that's all at To Die for the documentary dot com.
- [54:56]
Alex Clark
Is there a way for us to change laws and do and make sure that our state bans artificial dye just.
- [55:04]
Whitney K. Wood
Like California did when we started making the film? Our main driving factor was the fact that we don't think that this information is well known. Like people just don't know about the impacts of synthetic dyes. There's like Pop Tarts, right? They, they have a, a simply version and a regular version. I, I don't think you can buy the simply version anymore in the stores. I think that's what they send to school and stuff. But then also like fruit by the foot. The only place that we've ever seen that you can buy dye free fruit by the foot is at Costco. But on that packaging they highlight it, they praise it, they praise that there's no artificial dyes, that there's no like it's so, it's so weird that they're.
- [55:42]
Alex Clark
Well you know what I bet it is. I bet shoppers said to Costco, I don't want this product in your store. Now if we're talking about, if you can't as a consumer you can't get through to the company themselves. If we all put pressure on places like Target, Walmart, Kroger Fries, you know, Publix, Costco and we say we do not want to shop with you. If you guys are, you know, selling these items, they're huge distributors. If they go to Kellogg's, if they go to General Mills and say stop putting this stuff in or we're not putting in our stores, they would wield a lot of power.
- [56:17]
Whitney K. Wood
Well you see that with Walmart, right? You see Walmart's great value brand. Like a lot of that has taken a lot of stuff out and they have like a whole organic like selection now because they were losing customers to organic brands.
- [56:29]
Brandon Wood
They have dye free sprinkles, die free medication. Like Walmart listened. Walmart at one point, you know, it was not the healthy place to go. So their customers went elsewhere and they responded to that. So we've seen like a massive shift.
- [56:44]
Alex Clark
With Walmart and like a good what you're buying. If all of us decided to shop this way, they're going to have to shift the products because they want to make money. So we really do have a Lot of control.
- [56:55]
Whitney K. Wood
It's crazy to see a brand that typically has tons of dyes and their main product have a version and like highlight that there's no, like, no artificial color. Like that's, they know that, like, they know that it's not good. They know that that's something they should, they should be doing so that they highlight no artificial colors. No artificial, like it's, it's, it's crazy.
- [57:14]
Brandon Wood
These manufacturers are in it to make money and so if they hear us say, okay, we want a dye free version, they're listening. And we've, we've seen that you can find a dye free alternative to so many food products and also like over the counter medications. Where it gets tricky is prescription medications because so many of them contain synthetic dyes and there's no other option. So I had a mom that wrote me, she was sharing her story, her child is epileptic and so she actually has an allergy to Rev40. So she either breaks out in hives or her throat swells, something like that. Like it's a true allergy. So she could not take this medication. The only other option had red 43. We know it's so bad for our health and then we know that it causes tumors in, in animals. And so she's taking it every single day. But she can't not take her epilepsy medication. Epilepsy is something that you, you have to be medicated for. And so I, I think that's where it gets really tricky.
- [58:11]
Alex Clark
Wow, that's terrible. Okay, so there's a lot of work we gotta do. We gotta make sure that the pharmaceutical companies also are not including these, these dyes.
- [58:19]
Whitney K. Wood
And so our goal with the film will was let's get this information in front of the general public because I think what's going to cause change are enough people saying we don't want this in our food, you know, riding their senators, riding their, their legislators and like reaching out to companies because why, why would companies eliminate dies if nobody's asking them to? You know, we've seen in the past like with tricks in like the 2015, 2016, 16, they did take dyes out. People were saying, you know, they were hearing a lot about healthier options and things like that. And there was some backlash on the Internet with people talking about how they were ruining their childhood and all this crazy stuff and they put the dies back in. So like if we, you can, you know, if enough people make enough noise, maybe something's done, but they can always put it back in if they see their, their profits starting to drop, then I will. What we have changed. Changed is the artificial color. Let's put it back in. Whereas if we can get laws, you know, warning labels or bands, then it's gone for good. So writing the companies is important, but I think the most important thing is to, is to, you know, we gotta, we gotta talk to our legislators in our film. Our call to action is write your senators, write these companies, and let's, let's make some noise because that's what's gonna make some change.
- [59:36]
Alex Clark
Well, just speaking of making noise. Noise, the fact that you guys, you know, funding this film yourself and, and taking all of these years to put this together, to get your story out there to help other parents, I mean, it really is. I can't thank you enough for just all of the labor of love that you've put into this and how important this is to have this information. And nobody has done a documentary on this subject like this. So thank you guys so much for everything. And go watch To Die for four. It's so good. I know that my audience will love it. And they're always asking me, give me some, they always like, give me some homework. Alex, what can I be watching? So this is something for you to watch. Go watch to die for. Thank you guys for coming on. Culture Apothecary.
- [60:17]
Whitney K. Wood
Thank you for having us.
- [60:18]
Brandon Wood
For having us.
- [60:22]
Alex Clark
Did anyone notice that I have on my very little kid looking colorful outfit today for the theme of this episode? That was on purpose. I personally found this interview so education educational. Fascinating. Also, because explaining why artificial dyes are dangerous for human health can seem crazy to somebody who's never heard this before. I thought that Brandon Whitney broke it down in a really simple way that makes it easier for us to explain to other people why it's important we avoid those in our food. And I also want to highlight that their story can hopefully make a parent struggling with behavior issues in their child know that maybe they aren't crazy. Maybe you're not a bad mom, right? Maybe it is as simple as a food item that your child has been eating or drinking regularly that is causing these problems. So I hope this conversation brought some solace to someone. Today we drop two new episodes a week with different guests and their remedy to heal a sick culture physically, mentally and spiritually. On Monday nights and Thursday nights at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern, you can watch every episode live as it premieres. And later on the real Alex Clark YouTube channel. Don't forget your five star review as a free way to support the show. In the description of each episode is every coupon, code link and social handle for the guests featured. I'm Alex Clark and thank you for listening to Culture Apothecary.