← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Tucker Carlson On Biggest Parenting Regret, Seasons in Marriage, and Epstein
00:54:07
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- [00:00]
A
When you told your wife my career is changing after 14 years, did her reaction surprise you?
- [00:07]
B
She thought they were really anti Christian.
- [00:08]
A
What is wrong with Elon?
- [00:10]
B
You can't have two alpha bitches in the same kitchen. I just had that actually over the fourth of July. You know what I mean?
- [00:15]
A
What is the hype on nicotine?
- [00:17]
B
I would prepare to be as aware as you've ever been. Don't let other women shame you into thinking working in a bank is better than raising children, because it's not. And it's women who enforce in a very fascist way that lie. Oh, what do you do? I. I don't know. I'm doing the only thing that really matters, which is raising children. How's.
- [01:03]
A
If you know me, you know that my absolute favorite person in the conservative movement is Tucker Carlson. And I've been wanting to interview him for forever. I was actually supposed to. Which we'll get into in the beginning of this interview. Didn't get to. So this moment has been a long time coming for me. And we get into everything from his relationship with his wife and his marriage in different seasons that come in marriage, to parenting. His number one regret as a parent. We also talk about Epstein and the Trump administration. We talk about what Tucker does at night since he doesn't watch tv and so much more. It's just a fantastic interview. I appreciate Tucker's ability to be so candid and open and honest and vulnerable and kind to everybody he meets. This is a must watch interview. Real Alex Clark on YouTube or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. We're healing a sick culture physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Twice a week. I don't really need to give a major introduction. You know who he is. Please welcome Tucker Carlson to Culture Apothecary.
- [02:04]
B
Cowboy Colostrum. I know what that is.
- [02:06]
A
You do?
- [02:07]
B
Yeah. I think we just. We did a deal with them, I think.
- [02:10]
A
Oh, they're amazing.
- [02:11]
B
I was just talking to the owner of this.
- [02:13]
A
Yeah, Cowboy's the best. Yeah. These are two of my sponsors.
- [02:16]
B
I've never tried it. The concept is so repulsive. I don't think I could put that in my mouth.
- [02:20]
A
It's good. It's really good for you. Super good for immunity, hair growth, skin, nails, gut health. It's super good.
- [02:27]
B
I don't have a problem with any of that.
- [02:28]
A
You don't?
- [02:28]
B
I'm 56 and I like pizza and tobacco and I feel good.
- [02:31]
A
Okay, so you don't know this, but I was supposed to interview you last December and my dad died, and so.
- [02:39]
B
How old are you? You don't look very old.
- [02:41]
A
I'm 32. My dad was just a year older than you. And what's crazy is, is I know you also lost your dad.
- [02:50]
B
Yeah. At 84.
- [02:52]
A
Right.
- [02:52]
B
It's a big difference so far.
- [02:54]
A
What has been the grieving process like for you?
- [02:57]
B
It's been, you know, like everything in every profound thing in life, kind of not what you expect at all. I was really close to my father, unusually close. I had a different kind of child. I grew up alone with him and my brother, so. And I lived near him my whole life. I talk to him every day my whole life. You know, I just. I think the saddest deaths are those that kind of occur in the middle of an argument or an estrangement where there are things left unsaid. And that was the opposite of the experience that I had with my dad. I mean, I was holding his hand when he passed, like, literally with my wife and my brother. We were the three closest people to him. And so it was just. The whole thing was he lived next to me. It was so great. Kind of the last year and a half of his life. I saw him every day. He was a widower. We talked about everything every day. So when he died, it was obviously sad. I cried, but I didn't feel like, my gosh, I wish I'd told him. I mean, I said I love you every conversation I ever had with him from, like, the age of five until the age of 56. So it's not. You know what I mean? It was like you didn't feel like.
- [04:04]
A
You had things unsaid.
- [04:05]
B
I was not cheated.
- [04:06]
A
Yeah.
- [04:07]
B
At all. My father also believed in God, as I do, so it's not like, I think, you know, this is the end. I don't think that at all. So, honestly, it's been great. Think of my father every day. I've had a couple moments where I felt sad about it. On the 4th of July, I felt sad about it.
- [04:22]
A
Why the 4th?
- [04:23]
B
Because we spent it with him in Maine. You know, sitting on the front porch talking about women kind of thing. You know, it's just. Just the kind of. You know, I was very close to my father, who was hilarious and just a. A true patriarch. Like a. He was patriarch.
- [04:38]
A
Well, see, my.
- [04:39]
B
No one ever argued with my dad.
- [04:40]
A
He had glioblastoma, brain cancer, heart failure, all these things. Wrong. And I totally attribute it to a lifetime of being addicted to ultra processed food. It was ironic. As I'm doing this podcast talking about health and wellness and, you know, in the Maha movement. My own dad was dying at what age? At 57. When you dropped the interview with Callie and Casey means, I was like, oh, thank God. Because if he's not gonna listen to me, cause I'm his daughter, so it's like he's not gonna listen to me. I thought he's going to listen to you. Like if I say, well, Tucker Carlson's talk about this. So I sent that episode and, you know, it was just too late. But did you have a feeling in the moment of the ripple effect that that episode was going to have?
- [05:20]
B
Yeah, I did. I've done, you know, many thousands of interviews over 35 years. And occasionally once or twice a year, you feel like, wow, this is really just one of those moments like you have in life, you know, in bed with your wife or at dinner with your friends, there's like some moment that you're just like, oh, this is unusual. There's something else in the room with us. And I felt that way very much. And actually a lot of what I felt had nothing to do with physical health. It had to do with KC means attitudes toward life. Here's this woman who grew up in the neighborhood that I lived in. I mean, they grew up like two blocks from me in northwest Washington, D.C. i know the world that they're from intimately. And it's very much a merit badge type world. People's children are measured by the schools they get into, the dumb jobs they have at stupid companies. My kid works at McKinsey, he's at HBS. And all this sort of pointless achievement chasing, and it's not actual achievement right? At all. And Casey is a product of that world. And she achieved kind of every measure of conventional success, wound up at Stanford Medical School as a surgeon and decided that she had, in the process of. Of winning, had lost and had ignored the things that really mattered, which are marriage and children. And she had just said to me, I don't even know if this was on air or off air. But she said, you know, I. I really wish I hadn't done any of this. I wish I'd had kids. And I was like, whoa. That's when I realized, because of course I. I so vehemently agree with that. Nothing I've done in my life means anything compared to my children. It doesn't even rate. It's not even on the scale. So I really felt that. And I felt that she had not just come to conclusions about, you know, Wheat Thins being bad for you, comma. Though they are. Despite being delicious, she had come to deeper conclusions about what matters in life. And I was, wow. I was really moved by it. I felt emotional in the middle of an interview and I felt that she was, you know, while a person and therefore imperfect was. This was a messenger.
- [07:19]
A
I thought, well, and now she's pregnant.
- [07:21]
B
I know.
- [07:21]
A
And then she's, you know, nominated to work in the administration. Right as she's giving birth. I know, which is crazy.
- [07:27]
B
And she's taken a, a raft of abuse. And you know, I, I try to stay off social media and try not to live digitally. You know, it's a, it's a battle. But. And I definitely try and stay away from all the fights within Maha, which are very intense and very bitter. And I know everyone involved. I don't really understand some of the issues.
- [07:47]
A
Well, basically it's two camps. It's why aren't you solely focused on vaccines and then others that are like, we can't solely focus on only vaccines or nobody's gonna listen to us. We have to do the other stuff first and slowly walk people into the vaccine conversation.
- [08:01]
B
I'm more on in the former camp. I feel emotional on the subject. Knowing a lot of people who've been injured or killed by the vax. I think it's completely evil and I'm shocked by the fact that it was just authorized. The Moderna Vax for kids was authorized. So I feel very emotional about that and I feel like that's almost like a buy ammo moment when they do that. But I don't want to fight with people of good faith who agree with me, who disagree with me, rather, because I, I just don't want to do that. So I don't even know where Casey is on that question. I don't want to be involved in any of these fights. I've got my views, I'm happy to say them out loud, but I feel like almost everyone I've met of the well known people in that movement is a, is a good person. You know, I just don't want to take sides in it. And I think that, you know, I don't know if she's tough enough on the vax. I mean, I have a zero tolerance view of that. Like, no, I think the people who make it should go to prison. I think their immunity should be stripped tomorrow by the United States Congress. I think it's a deadly product. I think the whole thing is evil.
- [08:56]
A
You're speaking of COVID specifically.
- [08:58]
B
I'm talking about the COVID vaccine. I'm talking about the MRNA vax. I think it's evil. And I mean that not just in a generic sense, but in a spiritual sense. I think the fact that some vaccines are made from aborted baby fetuses, which they are. Which I didn't even know that was actually true. It actually is true. The whole thing is so mind bogglingly evil that I can't deal with it. Whatever side she's on, I think she's a really good person with very important things to say. Maybe not on the vax, I don't know. But certainly she has important things to say about health. And certainly her orientation toward life is so refreshing. It's so nice to hear someone say I won the prize and it's not worth having because that is the most human possible experience.
- [09:38]
A
Did you make any major health changes after getting to know Casey?
- [09:40]
B
No. I mean, I probably should have. I mean, I quit drinking in 2002.
- [09:49]
A
Uhhuh.
- [09:51]
B
And drugs.
- [09:51]
A
So you're like, I made the biggest health decision of all. I'm never making another one again, please.
- [09:55]
B
That was kind of it. It's like no more cocaine, no more beer, no more vodka. But by the way, I do think that pizza is bad for you.
- [10:05]
A
Okay.
- [10:06]
B
Cookies are a dark temptation.
- [10:08]
A
But President Trump, what's funny is he does everything opposite of what Bobby Kennedy and Cali means in case he means, say, to do. And yet he's thriving.
- [10:16]
B
If people only knew. I mean, if you could see the green room that is prepared for Trump before he gives a speech, which I've seen a number of times. I mean, it's unbelievable.
- [10:26]
A
What's in it?
- [10:26]
B
Oh, it's like a convenience store in the ghetto, you know, it's like only chips and candy, by the way, I'm not being critical. I love that stuff. Well, of course, but it's like true food desert, you know, and they're like telling you on TV it's a food desert. All they have is Doritos and Kit Kats. And that's what it is from Screen Room.
- [10:42]
A
But here's what's weird, is that he eats that way and yet he also brags about how he only needs three hours of sleep at night. And what I heard, and I want you to say if you've heard these same rumors and if they're even true, is allegedly he thinks he has a special gene which allows him to function after three hours and he wants his brain studied one day.
- [10:59]
B
I'm not going to comment on that. But yeah, I think that you're getting warmer I think that he is an anomaly in a lot of ways, and I don't understand it. I have a lot of thoughts on that, which I'm not going to share. But he's. I've never seen anyone live like that and perform like that. I. I'm not aware of him ever consuming water, which is an element, and the earth is covered with it. Most people do consume it. I don't think that's on the menu. I think it's only Diet Coke. And I mean that. Only Diet Coke.
- [11:27]
A
So do you think he's serious about Maha?
- [11:28]
B
I think there are certain things that he's serious about. I think that he's concerned that vaccines cause autism. He said that, and then for a while he stopped saying it. I guess he was told to stop saying that. But I. As far as I know, he's concerned. I don't know if we can say that conclusively. I certainly believe it. Bobby Kennedy certainly believes it. He's commissioned a study of the existing data. So we have these massive data sets, particularly. I mean, the US Government has the biggest data sets of all, of course, from cms, Medicare, and Medicaid, and he's commissioned a study of them to see if we can detect some connection between the expansion of the vaccine schedule and the rise in autism, both of which have been really dramatic. So it seems not crazy that there'd be a connection. It seems, in fact, very likely there would be a connection. I don't think we can say that there is a connection, but I know that the President's concerned about that.
- [12:24]
A
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- [14:48]
B
I think it's tragic. I mean, it's awful. It gives the impression that the Trump administration is covering up for an international blackmail ring. True or not, that's devastating. You know, people who voted for Trump voted for him precisely. Not just on Epstein as an issue, but more broadly because they're out of political options. I mean, they figured out that both the parties are aligned on the questions that matter. The war, foreign policy and the economy. They have identical views. We tax labor at twice the rate of capital. Why do we do that? Exactly. And we're happy to send troops around the world at the behest of other nations. Why are we doing this again? And so that's the consensus in Washington across both parties. And Donald Trump was the option to that. And so if he is seen as covering up the crimes of the uniparty of the deep state, of the deep architecture of power that clearly runs the world, then, you know, that's kind of the end of his movement. Were they actually doing that? I don't think they were necessarily doing that. I mean, I'm confident the truth is that they don't have a lot of evidence about Epstein's sex crimes, actually. And the reason they don't is because the original search warrant in 2007, six or seven. Seven, I think, was crafted in such a way to protect Epstein. So the COVID up began with the first arrest. And as a result of that, the Department of Justice doesn't have some giant corpus of, like, videotapes of Epstein having sex with children. In fact, I don't. I've never heard it credibly alleged Epstein had sex with anybody. I think he got massages, erotic massages. Maybe he did. You know, I don't know, but I've never even heard that alleged. I think what happened was the Attorney general, for reasons that are not clear to me, went on television and said a bunch of things that were untrue and that she certainly couldn't support and gave the impression that they had thousands of videotapes of Epstein and his associates having sex with minors. I can't imagine why she would say something like that. I can't imagine why she's still the Attorney General after saying something like that, but she said that.
- [16:57]
A
Do you agree with Candace Owens that the reason we are not going to see the client list is because Israel is implicated?
- [17:03]
B
Israel is implicated. I'm just going to say that. To what extent? I don't think we know.
- [17:09]
A
But what would Israel have to do with Epstein?
- [17:11]
B
Well, let me just. Let me just get to the second part first. I don't know that there is a client list.
- [17:15]
A
Okay.
- [17:16]
B
The only list that I'm aware of is a list held by attorneys of the 25 men who have settled with women who claim they were trafficked by Epstein. So there have been a series of civil cases about this. And I think some of this woman represented by David Boies, who's one of the most famous lawyers in America, I mean, this is all like on the Internet and there is a list of the people who've settled. It's not public. Probably could be public. Is that the same thing? No, that's not the same thing. Those are people who've settled claims made against them which are true or not. I don't know. This is a civil case. I don't believe that there's a list. And I think if There was a list. It would have been destroyed around the time Epstein was first arrested almost 20 years ago. Was Israel involved? Absolutely. I mean, the former Prime Minister of Israel, Ehud Barak, lived at Epstein's townhouse on and off for years. And so. Absolutely. What does that mean? I mean, the allegation is that Epstein was running a blackmail operation against powerful people where they would be videotaped having sex outside of marriage or illegally with underage women, and that that information would be used against them to get them to comply with whatever request that government wanted them to comply with. Is that true? I don't know. That's the allegation. Did Epstein have deep ties to the Israeli government? Absolutely. That's public. In fact, Benjamin Netanyahu has talked about it in public, so far as I know, as a way of criticizing Ehud Barak, who was a political rival of his. There's so many topics. As a regular traveler to Israel and a great appreciator of Israel as a country to cool country. If you haven't been there, it's worth going. There's a lot more freedom to talk about stuff like this in Israel than there is here. Everyone here is like, oh, you can't say that I'm attacking anybody. It's a country, lots of countries. You know what I mean? Like, I could get up and say, the CIA was running Epstein. I don't think they were right. And everyone be like, okay, the CIA was. If you get up and you say Mossad's running Epstein, it's like you're a Nazi or something. Well, of course I'm not a Nazi. And I don't know that they were running Epstein, but I know that he had. We shouldn't be embarrassed about having a straightforward conversation about the facts about anything, including this. And we can say conclusively he had extensive ties to the Israeli government. What were they? Well, they won't answer that question.
- [19:28]
A
Well, as we're recording this, Dan Bongino is threatening to resign if Pam Bondi does not resign as ag. What does that tell us, in your opinion?
- [19:37]
B
Well, it tells us that Dan Bongino got shafted. Completely shafted. And I'm saying this as a friend of his and someone who respects and likes him, but also just as an observer, an informed observer of it. So Pam Bondi, who's, by the way, I don't hate Pam Bondi. Totally nice person she was here. You would enjoy if. I don't know if you know her, but she's very nice person. Not against Pam Bondi in the Slightest. But the fact is, she got on television on Fox News and started saying stuff like, I've got the client list on my desk. And actually, no, you don't. And I've got thousands of videos of Epstein having sex with kids. Well, actually, no, you don't. Most of the material was commercial porn taken off his computer. Like, that's just not true. Why did she say that? Probably because she's insecure and she's trying to please the audience, I would expect.
- [20:20]
A
Do you think Dan is upset because his integrity is being questioned now over her mistakes?
- [20:24]
B
Oh, my gosh. So you're Dan and you're a media figure, and you've got one of the biggest podcasts in the country, and you're making tons of money and you're having a great time, which he was. You just built this brand new studio in Florida. You work with your wife, who you really like, which she does, and you get the call saying you'd be deputy FBI director, and you're like, I love Donald Trump. I love this country. I will, you know, cut my pay by, you know, into a tenth of what it was, and I will leave my house and move to D.C. which is a kind of prison sentence itself. And I will do this because I love the President. I love the country. And you're there a few months, and all of a sudden everybody thinks you're covering up Epstein's crime, and it kind of wrecks Dan's career. Like, he can't go back. It's gonna be very hard at this point. I mean, things may change, but as of today, pretty hard for Dan to go back to his podcast audience and be like, I'm telling you the truth, when they all think that he's covering up for Epstein. Who did that? Pam Bondi did that. And I don't know that she did it on purpose. I'm assuming not. I don't think she's a mean person. I've never gotten that sense. But for whatever reason, she went out there and said things that were not true that she could not back up. And then they issued this memo thinking that it would clear everything up.
- [21:33]
A
That was embarrassing.
- [21:33]
B
And I guess they're just so dumb they didn't realize that if you tell everybody you have the tapes of these crimes and then you issue a memo saying you're not going to prosecute anybody for the crimes. What are you saying? I'm covering up for the perpetrators of these crimes. Duh. They. They have no one with an IQ over 80 of there to read the memos. Are you kidding? You know, I'm not exactly sure how that happened, but I do know that it leaves a guy like Dan in a horrible position.
- [21:59]
A
Yeah.
- [22:00]
B
And he loves Trump. And I don't think Trump had any knowledge of any of this at the detail level. And so he doesn't. I mean, what do you do if you're Dan Bongino? I just really. I feel for. Feel for him. What is Trump going to do? I don't know. I do think that they're going to. I think they know that they have to do something. I think it's absolutely fair to ask. To what extent was Epstein involved in a foreign intelligence operation on our soil? This is our country. This country doesn't belong to any foreign country. Okay. This is our country. I was born here. I pay taxes here. So if some foreign country, I don't care if you claim it's our ally or not, Is running an intel operation on my soil, I have a right to know what that was. And don't make me feel like I'm some kind of Nazi for asking. I'm an American. I have an absolute right to know that. And they're clearly. That is what is being covered up, because it makes everyone so uncomfortable.
- [22:52]
A
Well, speaking of people leaving the Trump admin, what is wrong with Elon?
- [22:57]
B
Elon's awesome, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't put a neural chip in my brain, I'll tell you that. It's like the bottom of my to do list.
- [23:03]
A
So you don't think he lost it with all that?
- [23:06]
B
No, I mean. Well, I just like Elon, you know? And Trump liked Elon, too, for the record. Yeah, a lot. And what was that about? Probably about a lot of different things, but fundamentally, I think it was, I have a lot of dogs. Do you have a lot of dogs?
- [23:19]
A
I have one dog.
- [23:19]
B
You have one dog. Okay. So when you get to the pack level with dogs, there's the alpha dog. I have a female, the alpha bitch in my house, and there can be only one. And if one of my kids brings a dog over, my children have dogs. They bring a granddaughter over, and there's a battle.
- [23:34]
A
And that's what happened, you think, with.
- [23:35]
B
Trump and your can't have two alpha bitches in the same kitchen. I just had that actually, over the Fourth of July. You know what I mean? I mean, you see this in families when you have a patriarchal figure who's, you know, and then sometimes he's got tension with his son. I mean, it's. It's Hard for dominant men to share the stage. That's just a fact. It's not an attack on anybody. And I think, you know, there's a series of layers of specifics I think there. But fundamentally I think that's what it is. But nobody's going to convince me that Elon is a bad guy. Elon is a. I know Elon well and he's a great guy and, and he has all kinds of views that I disagree with. Some I think are kind of kooky. Again, I'm not putting a freaking Neuralink chip in my head. No, I'm not going to meld with a machine. No, I totally disagree with that. But I really like him and I think that he has given this country something irreplaceably important, which is free speech, which is our birthright, given to us by God, protected by the US government. But we didn't have it because we had no outlet for speech. And X was the beginning of the resurgence of free speech. And I just pray that it remains open. But Elon did that single handedly. Some foreigner who moved here, a naturalized citizen who gets America, understands that the Bill of Rights is the core of our country and defended it when no one else would. And so I don't care what Elon does. I don't care. I don't care if he robs a dozen banks in Michigan next week. I won't support that. But I will always be grateful to him for opening X.
- [25:02]
A
When you and your wife first got married and you were thinking about having kids, were you talking about, you know, your hopes and dreams for your kids? Were you like, we're going to have conservative kids. This is like an absolute, you know, no brainer, no exceptions. Was that important to you? Did it matter to you?
- [25:19]
B
Well, first of all, I got married at, I just turned 22. I didn't really want kids at all because they totally screw up your sex life and which they do for a while. And my wife came to me and said, I want to have kids. And I was like, I knew that you can't get in the way of the maternal instinct because it will just flatten you like a truck on a highway. You know what I mean?
- [25:42]
A
You knew that at 22, I've always.
- [25:44]
B
Had strong instinctive understandings of things, even though the details sometimes escape me. But I knew that I didn't want to mess with that. So I said to her, look, I don't want to have kids right now. We're having an awesome time when you really mean it, because Women test you all the time. I want a puppy. Really? Do you really? And so I always say to my wife, how about I will do whatever you want to do, but you have to be serious. So when you really mean it, come back to me and we'll do it. And so she came back to me like a year later and she's like, it's time. And I said, done. We had children at 25, our first at 25. I. It was a different country. That was 1994. It wasn't that political. I was always ideological. My wife is not political at all. I never said anything about politics to my children at dinner. We never talked about it.
- [26:25]
A
Never their whole life growing up, ever. So when did you talk politics with them?
- [26:29]
B
The only issue I ever said was we are pro life, period. We are pro life. We're the only Protestant, Episcopalian pro lifers like in the world. But I don't think that you can kill people, period. Especially didn't do anything wrong. Like you're not allowed to do that. We are pro life. We are opposed to abortion. It's totally evil. You can vote for someone who is for this, that or the other things. Tax rates, communism, I don't care. We're not for abortion, period. That's the only issue I ever mentioned.
- [26:56]
A
Why the only issue? Why didn't you?
- [26:57]
B
Because that's all that matters. Many issues matter. It's not the only issue that matters, but it's the one from which all others flow. If you acknowledge that there are some things you're not allowed to do, however much you might like to do them. There are all kinds of people I've fantasized about killing my whole life. All of us do same. The guy who cuts you off in traffic or whatever, including an inconvenient baby you think is going to wreck your life. I get it. But you're not allowed to because you're not God. You don't get to kill people. That's a decision you're not allowed to make. So if you frame a kid from early age around the limits of human behavior. We are not gods. We can make all kinds of decisions, but some are reserved for God and not for us. And the taking of human life is the number one on that list, then I think you change a kid's orientation. And children in general don't benefit from too many rules. They're like dogs. It's like you can't teach a dog 150 commands. You teach them six commands. You know what I mean? You don't want to overwhelm a child or a dog. So you have to figure out what's really important. We'll start there. That's all we ever talked about. But it was a different world.
- [28:02]
A
You know, summer can be brutal on skin. Sun, chlorine, heat, all dry you out. And that is why Adele Natural Cosmetics, a family founded brand in Central Texas, is my secret weapon. Their Aloe Vera spray is a mini oasis for your skin sprints at any time your face feels parched or tight. I keep it in my purse. It's made from fractionally distilled hydrating aloe, designed to last without preservatives. Just pure soothing refreshment. Pair that with Adele's Essential Moisturize, a light yet nourishing cream that replenishes skin without feeling heavy in the heat. And then post shower their body oil locks in moisture with natural oils that absorb quickly and leave your skin radiant, not greasy. Everything is made in small batches and handcrafted with love by the family in Central Texas. That is also like me, caring about natural ingredients. They prioritize sourcing from sustainable US farms because they want purity, quality and ethical stewardship. Plus it's all rooted in faith. Guided by First Peter 3:3:4. They believe that true beauty comes from within. When you choose Adele, you're supporting a mission, a family and a heartfelt purpose. Head to Adele Natural Cosmetics.com use code ALEX for 25% off your first purchase. That's Adele Natural Cosmetics.com code ALEX for 25 percent off your first purchase. Let's skip the big gimmicks. Zebra focuses on small daily essentials that do exactly what they should without toxins. So deodorant. For example, Zebras goes on smooth and clear, smells amazing and performs whether you sweat or stay cool. No aluminum, no parabens, no fragrance. Just two options with or without baking soda. Ideal even for sensitive skin. I also love Zebra's silk floss. Now most natural floss, I'm saying natural in quotes, is still polyester. So microplastics plus pfas. Zebra uses silk, peppermint oil, xylitol and they've confirmed no detectable forever chemicals. Clean, safe, effective flossing every time. And of course Zebra has their toothpaste. I love their toothpaste. No fluoride, no hydroxy appetite. Instead you can just have xylitol, which is one of my favorite toothpaste ingredients because hydroxy appetite gives me gray spots on my teeth. Zebra is proudly made in the usa. Make the switch to essentials that actually Work and keep out the junk. Visit yay zebra.com use code Alex for 10% off any order. This is the number one toothpaste of culture apothecary. That's yay zebra.com code Alex. Personal care that you can trust. The only parenting regret I've ever heard you say publicly is that you wish you would homeschooled.
- [30:24]
B
Yeah, that was so stupid. Well, we're, you know, I was born in 1969.
- [30:29]
A
But why do you feel like that's a regret? Because it seems to me like what we know, what's been shared publicly about your kids by yourself or whatever, is that they've. They're all the very successful Ivy Leaguers, your sons working in the administration. I mean, so why do you feel like, well, I wish I would have gone back and homeschooled.
- [30:43]
B
I mean, I have all kinds of excuses for why I didn't homeschool. I'm sure there's not one of my children who wanted to be homeschooled. I'm sure if you were able to find them now, all living in Zambia under assumed names. Just kidding. Don't ever. If you ever run into them, don't ask them. But if you were to ask them, they would say, oh, my gosh, that's a nightmare. To have our father homeschool us overbearing, all his theories about everything. But I was educated almost exclusively by my father at home. I went to every stupid private school, boarding school in the world at great expense. But I learned the overwhelming majority of what I know today at the table with my dad, talking about books that he had read and experiences he'd had in places that he'd been, people he knew. I was educated by my father. Most of my understanding of the world comes from him. And I wish I'd passed that on to a greater extent than I did to my kids. I think the education they received was, like, contemptibly stupid. I would sometimes ask, you know, like, what are you reading? Our Eyes Were Watching God by Zora Neale Hurston. She's a famous African American audience. Like, oh, shut up. It's garbage. Have you read Anna Karenina? What's that? I mean, like, the education was a joke. It was a joke. And for all my pot smoking and failing out of college and all the sort of checkered nature of my educational history, I always read good books because I had no choice, because my father made me.
- [32:00]
A
Did you at least pass on a love for the Grateful Dead?
- [32:03]
B
I did, actually. And for bluegrass and Americana and for acoustic music in General, I think school is stupid. I think basically don't think most people should go to school at all. I strongly feel that way. But I don't think reading is stupid. And I think that we don't take it seriously enough. I don't think it's enough to read. I think any time spent with a beach novel is wasted time. And you hear these elaborate justifications, oh, I need to relax my brain. No, I think you're relaxed. And if you're living in American society, you get enough downtime on your brain. Okay, you get enough of that if you're on Twitter, I think you've had enough of that one. You read a real book. And so I was with certain of my children, probably not across the board enough, but was certain I was like, no, we're not reading that. Like that's crap. Actually.
- [32:47]
A
Do you agree with the idea that marriages have seasons? You know, lots of sex, no sex, roommates, best friends, lovers, or has it stayed very consistent for you?
- [32:57]
B
I've always gotten along with my wife. I've always liked her. I do think that not just sex, but like attraction, smell, affection. Do I like, do I like, do I have warm feelings for this person? Like a lot of that is like genetic or it's determined on a non conscious level. It's not the product of choice. You just run into somebody. And by the way, I think that children are the product of of course, genetics, the mix between man and woman. And I think people who are attracted to each other on a phenome level have their children tend to be more impressive than their parents. Like that. So I think it's really important. But of course, I mean if you've got, you know, four kids at home and one of them is breastfeeding, it does tend to affect your sex life.
- [33:47]
A
What's your advice for young married men? Because my audience are typically married starting families, 25 to 35 year old women. So for their husbands who are listening to this episode, they're like, oh, I'm in that season right now. Like, what is your encouragement for them?
- [34:00]
B
Don't retreat. I mean that tends to hurt men's feelings a lot, A lot. And they take it personally. And women just reorient to the child and it's just so shocking. Every husband feels it when you know, you realize you're not the most important person to your wife. Her child is. And, and then the kid takes over your wife's body, which is like, what? Get off those things. Like, you know what I mean? I think every man feels that Way, like what? No, that you're not allowed there.
- [34:31]
A
You know, what are you doing here?
- [34:33]
B
I feel that, I felt that really strongly and I tried not to say it too much. Now we, I joke about it, like, I'm glad they're, you know, glad they're off of you. Much as I love them, they're my children. But so, but there is this moment for a man where you're like, oh, my gosh, I lost my wife. And I think it's important at that point to make the effort to try. Your wife is never going to focus on you with the kids around. She just can't. It's just impossible. So you need to get her out of the house, whether it's on a walk, preferably. I mean, we always, always went out to dinner. Instead of going out to dinner, we'd get a motel room near our house, get room service, hang out there for, then go back. You know what I mean? Spend the 150 bucks for the room. Because you're never going to get her full attention with her children in the room ever. To this day, by the way. You can be in your 50s and your kids will come visit with their spouses and she'll be distracted because that's just how women are wired. And thank heaven they are wired that way. It's. It's how infants survive. I mean, a baby cries the middle of night. If, if I were the mom, the kid would starve to death because I just wouldn't wake up.
- [35:42]
A
When you told your wife, my career is changing after 14 years, what was her initial reaction? And did her reaction surprise?
- [35:51]
B
You mean when I got fired?
- [35:52]
A
Yeah.
- [35:53]
B
Oh, it was amazing. It was amazing.
- [35:54]
A
So she was like, finally, she was relieved.
- [35:57]
B
I said, I got a call from Suzanne Scott. I almost couldn't remember her name. I mean, her. No, Hill Will, who was the president, I guess still is the president of fox. I never really had much of a relationship with her. Odd person, but. But always nice to me. And I said, suzanne Scott just called me and they canceled my show. And my wife was with our dogs. And she goes, what? Why? And I said, I don't know. They wouldn't tell me. And she goes, thank God.
- [36:21]
A
No way.
- [36:22]
B
First thing, first thing she said, thank God.
- [36:23]
A
Why'd you say that?
- [36:24]
B
You think she thought they were really anti Christian?
- [36:27]
A
Oh, really?
- [36:28]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [36:29]
A
Do you agree?
- [36:29]
B
Oh, of course, yeah, yeah.
- [36:31]
A
Why do you say that?
- [36:32]
B
It just makes them uncomfortable. They're not comfortable, comfortable with that at all. If you said on Fox, which I don't Think I ever did. I probably should have, but, like, hey, how are the Christians of the west bank doing? Like, how's Bethlehem doing where Jesus was born? The church in the Nativity? It's got to be. That's not the most sacred site in Christendom. I'm not sure what is. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. It's the Church of the Nativity. Let's call the rector of the Church of the Nativity and ask him what he thinks was really occupation just as a Christian. I think it's totally fair. Whoa. I mean, you'd be out of there.
- [37:06]
A
Really?
- [37:07]
B
Of course. I mean, you're not allowed to say. Are you joking? No.
- [37:11]
A
So when we saw that viral photo of you guys, like laughing on the golf cart or whatever you guys were driving to dinner, I mean, it was, it looked like pure joy and it was pure joy because you both felt like a weight was open.
- [37:20]
B
She got canned. Yeah, that was pretty funny. It, that was actually very funny. My wife's very sweet person, mother of four, always four dogs, former religion teacher, totally non political, not a news consumer and just a nice person loved by everybody, I think. But we are coming back to the house and they're all these back where the trash cans are like side gate. They're all these like reporters and guy with a camera and, and the guy with the camera was from the Daily Mail. And he goes, you know, I was trying to be nice, but what are you doing at my house? I don't like that. So. But anyway, I was trying to be nice because I'm on camera. You just got. Your show just got canceled. What do you have to say to Fox News? And I was like, you know, haven't talked to Fox about it. I got to figure out about my contract and I don't really have anything to say. And my wife goes, I've got something to say. And we try to keep that to a minimum. You know, she's a. She's kind of person who never lies. And I was like, oh. And the guy goes, we have to say. And she goes, fox News. I was like, oh.
- [38:19]
A
And were you never more in love with her than in that moment?
- [38:21]
B
No, I was so. I was like, susie, you can't say that. And she goes, why? I think that. And I said, because I've got all these kids and like family and stuff. You can't talk like that. And she goes, well, I think that. And that's what I think. And I'm not gonna lie. So I go in and I call the editor. I knew the editor of the Daily Mail. And I was like, my wife's a lunatic. I just wanted you to know. But very sweet person, very sincere Christian. Can't have her using the F word on camera. Can you not run that? And he's like, okay. Isn't that nice? Yeah. And so I go in and I tell my wife, I went to my bedroom and called him right away. And she goes, what? I want to be quotas. I think that she was mad, actually, the real reason she was mad, every year they would send me bottles of wine for Christmas.
- [39:04]
A
And they knew that you were sober?
- [39:06]
B
Well, they didn't know. They didn't care. I mean, they just sent me bottles, wine. I thought it was really nice. Whatever. Give them to my kids or give them to friends or whatever. I'm sure it was good wine. I don't know. My wife would always be like, but you don't drink, and they send you bottles of wine. I mean, that's so thoughtless. They don't even know who you are. And I was like, it's my employer. I don't. I don't care. I don't want some personal relationship with an employer. I mean, they're nice. They were super nice. From the day I started till the day they fired me. They were nice to me. So I'm not mad at them at all. But she thought that just bugged her, you know, she doesn't live in that world at all. She lives in a world of total sincerity and honesty.
- [39:37]
A
And now some of your kids are married.
- [39:38]
B
One married, two, engaged.
- [39:40]
A
What do you and your wife envision or hope for your years as grandparents?
- [39:45]
B
I'm really about quantity, not quality. I feel the same way about kids as I do about, say, a buffet at Shoney's. I just want a lot of it. And so I would like a lot of grandchildren. And you'll notice in the Hebrew Bible, wealth and stature are measured not by, like, the quality of your kids, but by the number. It's like his descendants were plentiful. And I. I feel that way. Sorry. I do.
- [40:13]
A
I don't think there's anything wrong with.
- [40:14]
B
As a shallow. As a shallow person. So my goal is to sit in my declining years, which are probably fast approaching at the end of the table, and look out on this sea of people who vaguely look like me, chatting away. And I turn my hearing aids off and just sort of look noble like that. Like, that's kind of.
- [40:29]
A
What do you think? That's really what every man's dream is, to sit at the kitchen Table and just see it filled with his family.
- [40:35]
B
It's always been my dream. I mean, I grew up in such a small, weird, fractured family. I went to boarding school in 1983 and there was this kid, I was a freshman. And there was this. And there was the other side of the country from where I was from. There was this kid and I kind of remembered it. I recognized his name. We're on the wrestling team together. He was a senior, I was a freshman. And he comes to my room one night and he goes, are you from so and so this and all stuff. I was like, how'd you know that? He goes, we're cousins.
- [41:00]
A
Oh.
- [41:01]
B
I was so cut off from my family that my cousin was in the same border. I didn't even know we were cousins. He hadn't seen me since I was like 4. Anyway, the point is, I grew up in a very. Was me, my dad, my brother, later my stepmom was a wonderful person. And that was it. I didn't have, you know, 19. Well, I did have 19 cousins turned out, but I didn't know them. And I always wanted to be like, you see these Italian families in the movies, you know, they'd have dinner on Sunday night, you know what I mean? And they'd like have endless courses and stuff. You know, we. We always ate in restaurants, like full time ate in restaurants. And I just always wanted that. Like eating at home, tons of people, dogs running around. I just wanted. I like that. And I have that.
- [41:47]
A
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- [43:04]
B
No, we don't have tv. And now we've like gone without TV for so long that we're like.
- [43:08]
A
But what do you do at night again?
- [43:10]
B
I hate to admit it, I will. I mean, I do tie trout flies at night. I talk to my wife. We have a fire most nights of the year. Actually try to do it every night. Didn't have one last night, but usually we have a fire and try to talk to my wife. I get caught up in the texting.
- [43:25]
A
Who are you texting?
- [43:26]
B
Oh, everybody. I don't have email, so it's like. And I don't love phone calls like most teenagers.
- [43:32]
A
You don't? That's shocking.
- [43:34]
B
I know.
- [43:34]
A
I figured you would prefer a phone call.
- [43:36]
B
I know you would think that. No. I'm on text and I don't read the news and I try not to go on social media. So almost my whole reality outside of my house, my immediate world is determined by text message. So I end up with a lot of texts. And I'm embarrassed by the number of nights I'm up late texting. And I have a couple dogs who are my hunting dogs. Really, really smart. Sleep on the bed and my head dog. True story. If I stay up too late, will trot out into the living room and get right in my face, put her nose in my face, being like, let's go. And she'll like, wait there till I go to bed. I do text too much and I feel like it really cuts against physical health and spiritual health. I don't think it's good for you at all to be on your phone all the time. Time.
- [44:16]
A
When was the last time you went to like, a movie theater?
- [44:18]
B
No. Decades. I mean, I don't.
- [44:20]
A
You don't watch any movie? No. TVs? Nothing?
- [44:23]
B
Oh, no, not in decades, no. Wow. I just admitted I'm like texting until one in the morning some nights. I mean, that's. I don't know if that's more healthy. It's all gross. I mean, I'm sitting in a room filled with books. I've been A reader. My whole. I do read in bed every night. I read in the morning. Every morning.
- [44:38]
A
What are you reading right now?
- [44:40]
B
I read the New Testament. That's it.
- [44:42]
A
That's it.
- [44:42]
B
That's it. Yeah.
- [44:43]
A
Over and over again.
- [44:45]
B
Yeah. Actually, for three years.
- [44:47]
A
What do you feel like is the latest thing that God's revealed to you?
- [44:50]
B
I don't know. I'm in Rome. I'm coming out of Acts, which is like Acts of the Apostles, which is the first. It's basically history of the early Church, right? And the Apostle Paul, right out of the fourth gospel, John, and it's like this adventure story. And he's bombing around the Mediterranean, you know, getting in shipwrecks, and he's in prison, and they're always trying to beat him to death with rocks. And it's like. It's crazy fun. Amazing story. And now you go right from that into his letter to the Romans, which is like deep theology. And last night, I'm lying in bed reading this, and it's very late. We have, like, a million house guests, and I've been up chatting with people. We have a lot of people stay at our house always. That's the other thing I do at night is talk to people who are staying with us. And. And I'm like, I'm so tired. And I'm like, oh, I've read this before, but I totally, totally confused by the theology here. But I'm trying.
- [45:37]
A
Yeah.
- [45:38]
B
And next thing you know, I'm, like, falling asleep with my glasses on. So I would not say I'm much of a theologian at all, but I am making an effort, and I do love it. And then we. We take two vacations a year for a week each, and I read P.G. woodhouse novels on those, which are just, like, very shout there. He wrote, like, 95 novels, and they're all the same, but they're so hilarious. So my wife reads them also. So we read those and. But, yeah, I've kind of. I've just narrowed my life down a little bit.
- [46:04]
A
What is the hype on nicotine?
- [46:05]
B
I'm not sure I understand your question. Hype suggests undeserved praise.
- [46:09]
A
Okay.
- [46:09]
B
And yet there's nothing about nicotine that's undeserved.
- [46:11]
A
That's undeserved. Right.
- [46:12]
B
I mean, it's the idea that you could hype something like this, a naturally occurring compound. I think it's the only compound ever analyzed by scientists that simultaneously increases mental acuity and relaxation.
- [46:23]
A
Okay, Should I try?
- [46:24]
B
So it's like a natural speed ball this is how John Belushi died. But this will not kill you. In fact, it will enhance your life.
- [46:29]
A
Okay, don't give me a super powerful one. What do I do?
- [46:32]
B
So this is a nine. Are you have. Do you use nicotine a lot?
- [46:36]
A
No, I've never used it. So give me.
- [46:37]
B
So we're not gonna actually give this to you because what about the six? I think we would start you on a three. And.
- [46:44]
A
And that doesn't. We don't have it, but I think.
- [46:46]
B
We would prepare you for some nausea. I'm not gonna lie about this.
- [46:49]
A
Really.
- [46:50]
B
This is about truth. This is about the unvarnished veracity of the human experience.
- [46:54]
A
Well, I just had this fascinating doctor on, Dr. Brian Ardis. And he was talking about the benefits of nicotine, saying, like, it'll help with your Ms. Symptoms. And he doesn't ever get sick anymore because he's taking it again.
- [47:03]
B
You're a of fan affecting this voice. My daughters do this. And he said, da, da, da, da, da, da. And that voice suggests skepticism.
- [47:10]
A
Well, because my audience was hearing you.
- [47:12]
B
Say is, I don't fully believe everything Dr. Brian Artis was telling me.
- [47:16]
A
I believe it. My audience. My audience was like on the fence. It was a very controversial episode. I believed it, but I haven't tried it yet because I am worried about the nausea. I mean, he suggested patches and everything to start, you know, cutting those down.
- [47:30]
B
I wouldn't do that. I would start with the threes. I would do it on a full stomach. I would prepare to be as aware as you've ever been.
- [47:40]
A
As aware as you've ever been.
- [47:41]
B
No, I mean, I don't overstate. This is not ayahuasca. Okay? You're not going to see visions, but you are going to feel better than you've ever felt. And I do think, as someone who's used nicotine every single day since 1983. June of 83. So that's. Let's do the math with me now, that's 41 years. I can say I'm in better shape than I deserve.
- [48:02]
A
Do you get sick often?
- [48:03]
B
I never get sick.
- [48:04]
A
There you go.
- [48:04]
B
See, I got Covid in 2020. I was sick for two days. And then before then, I got food poisoning in El Salvador by eating shrimp. My fault.
- [48:14]
A
Yeah.
- [48:15]
B
And then before that, I got food poisoning in Nicaragua in 1988. So I got appendicitis once, and I hurt my back and had back surgery from moving something heavy. That's this. That's my total health history. And I'm 56 all right, we're trying ALP. Okay.
- [48:30]
A
Okay.
- [48:30]
B
So I'm not saying nicotine has kept me from. But I'm just saying, as someone who is spotty about extra. I mean, I'm always moving, but spotty about exercise. Never been inside a gym that I'm aware of. And I do like pizza, which is bad. And I do have to stop that. But other than that, I'm never sick.
- [48:46]
A
Okay.
- [48:46]
B
Okay.
- [48:47]
A
All right.
- [48:47]
B
Ever.
- [48:48]
A
Okay, so then you've heard it here first. We're trying Alp.
- [48:50]
B
Or ask anybody. I mean, how many shows. I mean, I was on TV for 29 years.
- [48:55]
A
That's true.
- [48:55]
B
How many shows did I miss?
- [48:57]
A
That's right.
- [48:57]
B
None.
- [48:58]
A
The proof is in the pudding. Okay, So I ask every guest this. To wrap this show, if you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally, or spiritually, what would it be?
- [49:09]
B
Sobriety. It would be sobriety. I mean, and by sobriety, I don't just mean the absence of drugs and alcohol and particularly prescription drugs, which I think are especially insidious. As I used to do cocaine as a kid, I just lived in a world. People say cocaine, and I'm not proud of it. I haven't done that. I haven't seen it in over 20 years. But it was very common. But even in show business and television, even when I was around it, I was like, yeah, cocaine's bad. There's something bad about. You know, it's illegal, for one thing. It's like the drug cartels bring it here. Everything's bad is bad and naughty and shameful and whatever. People take Xanax like, well, my doctor gave it to me. Or Adderall. Oh, my doctor gave it to me. Or they're on SSRIs, which destroy their sexual function and, like, make them into zombies. And they're like, no, no, this is. My doctor told me. You know, it's like, there's no shame attached to prescription drugs, and that's why they're so incredibly dangerous. And they're physically dangerous is try to get off. Try to get off. Benzos.
- [50:02]
A
Yeah. Oh, I know. We've talked about that.
- [50:03]
B
Kill you, right? So. So I would say sobriety, but. But not again, just the absence of drugs and alcohol. I mean, sobriety in the truest sense. Like a sober worldview, like, assess reality. And by reality, I mean physical reality. I mean, physicalist. Above all. You're a capitalist. You're a social. I'm a physicalist. I believe in the physical reality of things. I believe that how people look and Smell and feel and what your landscape appears to be, the world around you, God's creation and man's creation all around you. That's what actually matters. And it's not on a screen, it's around you. So make your judgments on the basis of that, not fantasy. And by fantasy, I mean anything emanating from a screen is by definition not real. It's ones and zeros. It can be manipulated. It's fundamentally fake. Soberly assess the world around you and your relationships. And if you spend, you know, as much time on your relationships as you do on Twitter or DraftKings, you will be. No, I'm not attacking anybody.
- [51:14]
A
No, no, but DraftKings, I mean, it's just so accurate.
- [51:17]
B
Yes, yeah, no, I know. I'm aware of the reality around me. And it's increasingly just fake, like what matters? And again, by sobriety, I mean a sober attitude, a reality based attitude, an attitude based in the five senses. That is what matters. And if you focus on that, other people, your dogs, nature, you know, you may have a bad day or two, but you're not going to face any of the many made up psychiatric conditions that the lunatics who, true lunatics, who run our mental health system are constantly describing. Oh, that's bipolar. It's a chemical imbalance in your brain. They can't define any of it. It's all fake. And what they're really describing is the sadness of modern life, the sadness of disconnection, of not being connected to people, nature, animals, smells. We're totally disconnected from that. So no wonder people are freaking crazy. I would be crazy too. And to the extent that I'm disconnected from those things, I am crazy. So reconnect to those things. Don't dull out on weed or cocktails or benzos. Face the reality around you and you will find peace.
- [52:32]
A
I mean that 30 seconds of advice for moms raising the next generation.
- [52:36]
B
Make it your priority. And don't let other women shame you into thinking working in a bank is better than raising children, because it's not. And it's women who enforce in a very fascist way that lie. Oh, what do you do? I. I don't know. I'm doing the only thing that really matters, which is raising children. How's that? And it's women who enforce that. I've seen it a lot. And everyone lies about it. Oh, it's the patriarchy, maybe. No, it's the matriarchy, actually, that makes women feel guilty for being moms. And ignore them. Ignore them because your kids are all that matters.
- [53:09]
A
Tucker, thanks for coming on Culture Apothecary.
- [53:11]
B
Thank you. I'm gonna have one of these.
- [53:15]
A
Have it. Have them all. Okay, so we're adding a 3 milligram alp to our cart, right? You and I, and we're gonna try not to throw up. We're in this together. I feel like I can retire now, right? Like, this is. This is the end all be all of interviews for Culture Apothecary. So much fun. I loved it. I've got to get him back on again because there's so much more, you know, I could cover with Tucker. He's one of those people that you could easily talk to for just hours and hours and hours. If you love this episode, please leave us a five star review. Subscribe anywhere you get your podcast. I interview two new guests every single week on how to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally, and spiritually. You can subscribe on YouTube, real Alex Clark, or of course, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Culture Apothecary. Follow the show on Instagram at Culture Apothecary or me at Real Alex Clark. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.