Two Faced: Secrets The Makeup Industry Hides | Beauty Lawyer Whitney Ray Di Bona

Summary

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark | Episode Summary Episode: Two Faced: Secrets The Makeup Industry Hides | Beauty Lawyer Whitney Ray Di Bona
Release Date: December 3, 2024
Host: Alex Clark
Guest: Whitney Ray Di Bona, Beauty Lawyer

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Introduction

In this episode of Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark, host Alex Clark welcomes Whitney Ray Di Bona, a personal injury attorney specializing in the beauty industry. Whitney shares her journey from handling mesothelioma cases to uncovering the hidden dangers within the makeup and beauty sectors. Together, they delve into the toxic ingredients prevalent in beauty products, the regulatory shortcomings of the American beauty industry, and the risks associated with various cosmetic procedures.

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Exposing the Toxic Makeup Industry

Whitney DeBona begins by highlighting the pervasive issues within the makeup industry, emphasizing how brands exploit consumer insecurities to market harmful products.

“[00:00] Whitney DeBona: We are getting so bombarded every single day with everything on social media telling us that we're not good enough and that we're not pretty enough and that you need this eye cream, you need this surgery, you need this labiaplasty like whatever it is, and they're just really feeding off of our insecurities.”

Alex Clark reinforces this point with a succinct directive:

“[00:18] Alex Clark: Focus more on your legacy, not your lines.”

Whitney recounts her realization about the widespread use of toxic ingredients like talc in major makeup brands, leading her to investigate further.

“[02:00] Whitney DeBona: To say top five because there are so many brands that have toxic ingredients in them and it's sadly the majority of the makeup brands that are on the market... all of them. Everything from the luxury brands to drugstore brands. I mean, Maybelline, L'Oreal, Revlon, all of these brands are using ingredients that are toxic and potentially not safe.”

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The Legal Battle Against Toxic Cosmetics

Whitney details her transition from traditional mesothelioma cases to suing beauty brands for using asbestos-contaminated talc in their products.

“[03:13] Whitney DeBona: ...we started suing all of these companies for things like eyeshadow and blush and bronzer and loose face powder and those types of products.”

She expresses her shock upon discovering that companies like Johnson & Johnson knew about the asbestos contamination since the 1970s but failed to act, leading to severe health consequences for consumers.

“[07:37] Whitney DeBona: ...Johnson and Johnson, they've known since the 1970s that their baby powder contained asbestos... they knew what would happen to these people if they didn't get the asbestos out of their products. But they didn't.”

Whitney also exposes corporate tactics to evade accountability, such as bankruptcy protection:

“[10:45] Whitney DeBona: ...it's a little tactic called the Texas Two step where they basically make a new company, they assign all of their bad liabilities to that company, and then they file for bankruptcy on that company.”

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Dangerous Ingredients in Cosmetics

Whitney sheds light on specific harmful ingredients commonly found in beauty products:

Parabens

• Health Risks: Endocrine disruptors that mimic estrogen, potentially disrupting hormonal balance.
• Identification: Look for names ending in “-paraben” (e.g., methyl paraben, butyl paraben).

“[13:02] Whitney DeBona: ...parabens are, we know that they can be endocrine disrupting. They mimic estrogen.”

Fragrance

• Health Risks: Often a conglomerate of undisclosed chemicals, some of which can be harmful.
• Identification: Simply labeled as “fragrance” without ingredient disclosure.

“[14:05] Whitney DeBona: ...fragrance is huge... they don't have to disclose what's in that fragrance because it's protected under trade secret laws.”

Synthetic Dyes

• Health Risks: Linked to various health issues, including allergies and potential carcinogens.
• Identification: Look for terms like “lake” followed by color names (e.g., Lake Blue).

“[16:07] Whitney DeBona: ...if it's says, you know, lake whatever and has like the color on.”

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Navigating the Clean Beauty Landscape

Whitney provides guidance on selecting safer beauty products:

• Label Reading: Always check ingredient lists for harmful substances.
• Brand Transparency: Prefer brands that disclose their fragrance ingredients or use essential oils.
• Recommended Clean Brands:
  • Kosas: Known for their clean foundation and concealers.
  • Jane Iredale & RMS: Staple clean makeup brands she trusts.
  • Natural for Skincare: Highly recommended for clean skincare products.

“[40:30] Whitney DeBona: ...there's no, the FDA hasn't come out with a standard definition and say, or, you know, nobody, no government regulatory authority has said this is what is clean or this is what is okay to use.”

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Risks Associated with Med Spa and Laser Treatments

Whitney warns against the potential dangers of popular non-invasive cosmetic procedures:

Cool Sculpting

• Intended Effect: Freezes and eliminates fat cells.
• Side Effect: Paradoxical adipose hyperplasia, where fat cells expand instead of shrinking.
• Prevalence of Side Effects: Previously reported as 1 in 7,000, now potentially as high as 1 in 1,000.

“[36:08] Whitney DeBona: Cool sculpting is this machine that is supposed to freeze your fat... it has a horrific side effect called paradoxical adipose hyperplasia...”

Vampire Facials

• Risks: Infections such as HIV from contaminated equipment.
• Regulatory Attention: Recent FDA scrutiny highlights the dangers.

“[38:30] Whitney DeBona: ...a lot of these non invasive treatments honestly are shams.”

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Concerns Within the Plastic Surgery Industry

Whitney highlights significant issues in the plastic surgery realm:

• Board Certification Confusion: Many "cosmetic surgeons" lack proper training in plastic surgery.
• Malpractice Insurance Gaps: In states like Florida, many surgeons do not carry malpractice insurance, limiting victims' ability to seek compensation.
• High-Risk Procedures: Procedures like Brazilian Butt Lifts (BBLs) have resulted in severe health outcomes and deaths.

“[54:19] Whitney DeBona: ...the majority of people that have done cosmetic surgery do not have proper training like the board certified plastic surgeons have, versus these cosmetic surgeons who have like a separate certification.”

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The Botox Dilemma

Whitney discusses the controversial use of Botox:

• Health Risks: Severe side effects reported, including neurological debilitating conditions.
• Legal Findings: Majority of lawsuits involve therapeutic high-dose Botox, but even cosmetic doses have led to significant harm.
• Personal Stand: Whitney has ceased using Botox and questions whether the risks outweigh the benefits.

“[26:13] Whitney DeBona: ...the majority of those cases were people who were getting Botox for therapeutic medical purposes...”

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Remedies to Heal a Sick Culture

Whitney offers a heartfelt remedy to counteract the toxic influences of the beauty industry:

Self-Love and Acceptance

• Focus: Encouraging individuals, especially women, to embrace and love themselves without relying on external beauty standards.
• Message: Shift focus from superficial enhancements to meaningful contributions and personal legacy.

“[60:29] Whitney DeBona: I would say, and this is really for all of the women, is try and learn how to love yourself and accept yourself the way that you are...”

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, Whitney Ray Di Bona provides an eye-opening examination of the beauty industry's hidden dangers, the legal battles against toxic cosmetic products, and the ethical concerns surrounding cosmetic procedures. Her insights urge listeners to become more informed consumers, prioritize their health over societal beauty standards, and advocate for greater transparency and regulation within the beauty and cosmetic sectors.

Notable Quotes:

• Whitney DeBona [00:00]: "We're just really feeding off of our insecurities."
• Alex Clark [00:18]: "Focus more on your legacy, not your lines."
• Whitney DeBona [06:40]: "Apparently, they kind of put that off on the companies..."
• Whitney DeBona [30:29]: "Does the risk outweigh the reward?"

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For more insights and updates, follow Whitney Ray Di Bona on Instagram and TikTok. Listen to her podcast, Beauty Justice, where she continues to explore the intersection of beauty, law, and consumer safety.

Transcript

[Whitney DeBona]

We are getting so bombarded every single day with everything on social media telling us that we're not good enough and that we're not pretty enough and that you need this eye cream, you need this surgery, you need this labiaplasty like whatever it is, and they're just really feeding off of our insecurities.

[Alex Clark]

Focus more on your legacy, not your lines.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes.

[Alex Clark]

Whitney DeBona is a personal injury attorney specializing in the beauty industry working to hold everyone from beauty brands to med spas accountable for harming consumers.

[Unknown]

She's going to teach us about everything.

[Alex Clark]

From the most dangerous ingredients in our makeup to her favorite clean beauty brands at Sephora. And she has a bomb to drop about cool sculpting that I've never heard. Whitney is committed to educating women about the dangers of the beauty industry on her social media platforms and through her podcast which you can find in the Show Notes. Watch this multi camera shot interview on my YouTube real Alex Clark or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. Don't forget to leave a five star review to support the show for free right now so you don't forget. Or if you are blessed financially and you want to become a financial contributor, you can find a link in the Show Notes to leave a tag tax deductible donation for Culture Apothecary because we are completely donor funded. Show Merch is available at tpusa merch.com with code Alex Clark and there's a Facebook group for fans of the show called Cute Servatives. Joining us on our mission to heal us at Culture physically, mentally and spiritually is beauty lawyer Whitney debona on Culture Apothecary. What are the top five most dangerous luxury makeup and skincare brands? If you had to choose, it's hard.

[Whitney DeBona]

To say top five because there are so many brands that have toxic ingredients in them and it's sadly the majority of the makeup brands that are on the market. So I've been really open talking about Charlotte Tilbury for one that is kind of the makeup brand that I used to use. I used to use a lot of her products before I really started diving into the ingredients. And the first thing that I realized was that all of her blush, eyeshadow, bronzer, all of those products contain talc. So that was kind of like where I started. And then from there I was looking at all of the other ingredients and I realized that there's a lot of other stuff in there too. And so then I started looking at all of the different makeup brands and you know, it's it's all of them. Everything from the luxury brands to drugstore brands. I mean, Maybelline, L'Oreal, Revlon, all of these brands are using ingredients that are toxic and potentially not safe. So it's hard to just pick top five because it's really still such a widespread problem.

[Alex Clark]

You're a beauty lawyer fighting for a cleaner cosmetic and personal care industry in America. Why was this an important direction for you to take in your law career?

[Whitney DeBona]

When I kind of first started down this road, I was working for a law firm handling mesothelioma cases. And when I first started there, the majority of my clients were kind of your typical clients that you would think of when you think of asbestos exposure. So we're talking about construction workers and auto mechanics and men that served in the Navy or the Marines, people that worked in shipyards. You know, that's kind of like what we think of when we think about asbestos and mesothelioma. And so a lot of my clients were older men. You know, they were in their 70s, 80s, 90s, and they had worked in these industrial careers. And at some point, we started signing a lot of clients who were younger and a lot of women. And so we were signing a lot of clients, I would say between 40, 50, 60. They didn't come from families where, like, the dad worked in industrial setting and could have been bringing home the asbestos on his clothing. Because when you take one of these cases, you really have to dive through somebody's entire life to figure out where all the potential places that this person might have been exposed to asbestos. I'm getting these cases, and I. I had to start kind of learning the whole talc story and how, you know, how do we prove these cases and how did these women get exposed? And the firm that I was working with, we started naming in these lawsuits a lot of makeup companies. We've all seen those talcum powder kind of lawsuit commercials on tv, but I just thought that that was only for baby powder.

[Alex Clark]

Me too.

[Whitney DeBona]

We started suing all of these companies for things like eyeshadow and blush and bronzer and loose face powder and those types of products. And so in the discovery process, we started to uncover, you know, documents, and we're seeing that these companies were making loose face powder for decades with talc that came from asbestos contaminated mines. That was what really, like, shook me to my core, because I'm going, wait a minute, we're suing all these companies for these makeup products that I've grown up using, you know, CoverGirl face powder. And, you know, some of these products that I've been using since I was a teenager. And so that was what really kind of started this whole journey for me. Because then there was. There was one day where I was like, wait a minute, like, all of this stuff has talc in it, and I need to go home and look at all of my makeup. And I went home and I'm going through all of my makeup products and I'm like, oh, my gosh. You know, Charlotte Tilbury Talc, Mac, Talc. Like, all of these makeup products in my possession contain talc. And so that was when I really started to look into, okay, well, talc is bad. I want to get rid of all the talc. And so I'm telling my sisters, my mom, I'm telling everybody that I know, you need to get rid of the talc. And then I was like, well, if all of these things have talc and talc is bad and can potentially be contaminated with asbestos, what else is in my products? Yeah. And so that was where I started the deep dive into going, okay, what other chemicals are in here? What do I need to learn about and what do I need to avoid? Void.

[Alex Clark]

Would people be shocked by how loosely regulated the American beauty industry is?

[Whitney DeBona]

Shocked. I had no idea that the FDA does not require our beauty products to be tested for safety before they go on the market.

[Alex Clark]

I thought that was their job.

[Whitney DeBona]

That's what I thought as well. And it is not their job. Apparently, they kind of put that off on the companies and they're expecting that these companies are testing the products and making sure that they're safe before they put them on the market. But I think we all know what happens when we put all of our faith and trust in these big corporations. They don't care about our safety. They don't care about, you know, potential carcinogens and, you know, the potential health impact that some of these products have. And in fact, we know, and I know from lawsuits that I've seen, you know, these companies will go through great lengths to cover up any type of negative safety data that they might come out and learn about. They're going to cover that up because they don't want people to know about it. They don't want to have to spend the money to make the product safer.

[Alex Clark]

Do you have an example of, like, a big cosmetics industry that, you know, like, oh, they did a massive cover up on a big issue?

[Whitney DeBona]

Well, I mean, Johnson and Johnson, they've known since the 1970s that their baby powder contained asbestos. Baby powder Powder that is being, you know, marketed for moms to put on their babies. And there is, you know, substantial evidence going back at least to the 1970s, where they knew and they did nothing to warn the public to change their products to make them safer.

[Alex Clark]

What was happening to those children who used the baby powder?

[Whitney DeBona]

Well, at the time, nothing. But what's happening now is all of these people are being diagnosed with mesothelioma. So many women have been diagnosed with ovarian cancer from using baby powder. Powder. I didn't grow up with, like, powder wearing. My mom wasn't really a big powder person. But powder people are, like powder people, and they use baby powder everywhere. People use it as deodorant. They'll put it, like, in their underwear or their bra. Just they, like, basically get out of the shower and bathe themselves from head to toe in baby powder.

[Alex Clark]

The powder people.

[Whitney DeBona]

The powder people, Yeah. I just. I didn't know that. I guess powder was used. I just thought it was baby powder, was. People used it to diaper babies. But with all the clients that I've represented, men and women, I've learned that there are so many men who used baby powder and still do.

[Alex Clark]

They're probably using it on their balls.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes. Using it everywhere. So those are always fun depositions.

[Alex Clark]

I'm not like. I'm not talking in lawyers speak.

[Unknown]

I'm like, he's putting it on his ball.

[Whitney DeBona]

Well, they did. They. They definitely did. And in private areas and women, too, you know, with, like, dump it in their underwear. So that's always, like, a fun conversation at a deposition to have your client have to describ, and then how did you apply the powder into your underwear? You know, but this is very common. And so the thing with asbestos exposure and mesothelioma is that it's a disease that takes many, many years to develop. And so basically, you breathe in the asbestos fibers, they go down and embed themselves into the linings of your organs, and then it can take 10, 20, 30, 40 years before it actually develops into the disease.

[Alex Clark]

Whoa.

[Whitney DeBona]

So that's why we still have people that are getting diagnosed with mesothelioma right now, where, you know, they were using these products 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. And that's just kind of the nature of this disease. So, you know, like I said at the time, nothing was really happening to these people. But Johnson and Johnson knew what would happen to these people if they didn't get the asbestos out of their products. But they didn't. They actually just switched over to talc free products completely. So now if you buy Johnson and Johnson Powder, it's going to be made with cornstarch. But that has just happened in the last like two or three years.

[Alex Clark]

Can you share any big names of, of companies? We know that you've helped with lawsuits?

[Whitney DeBona]

CoverGirl, Maybelline, Avon. We're seeing a lot of women who worked as Avon ladies and, you know, sold the Avon products. A lot of their stuff was contaminated with, with asbestos. They actually just filed for bankruptcy protection on those cases.

[Alex Clark]

So is this how they get out of it?

[Whitney DeBona]

It's how they get out of it. And that's exactly what Johnson and Johnson has been doing. Now. They have filed bankruptcy multiple times claiming that they're bankrupt. I mean, Johnson and Johnson is a billion dollar, multibillion dollar corporation. We know that they're not bankrupt. It's, it's a little tactic called the Texas Two step where they basically make a new company, they assign all of their bad liabilities to that company, and then they file for bankruptcy on that company. They've done this multiple times. The bankruptcy courts keep throwing these out and saying, no, Johnson and Johnson, you're not bankrupt. But they continue to do it over and over again. And in the meantime, we have thousands of men and women who have developed these diseases, have, you know, found out that they're diagnosed with these terminal cancers and they're just waiting, they're waiting for justice, they're waiting for compensation for their medical bills, for the pain and suffering that they've gone through. And, you know, there's really no end in sight to it. And it's, it's despicable.

[Alex Clark]

Is Mary Kay any better than Avon?

[Whitney DeBona]

No Mary Kay, I would say also I know that they've been named in some, some talc lawsuits. I haven't personally represented anyone in a Mary Kay case, but I know that there are suits against them as well. And right now it's also, I mean, this is kind of newer litigation when we're talking about a lot of the makeup companies. So we're still learning, like we don't have all the documents. We don't know where all of these companies were sourcing their talc from or where they're still sourcing their talc from.

[Alex Clark]

Have you looked into any of these big new celebrity beauty brands that are at Sephora to see if some are better than others? Like you've got Fenty Beauty, you've got Selena Gomez, Rare Beauty, Ariana Grande has a line now. Are any of them like, maybe a little cleaner than Another, I haven't done.

[Whitney DeBona]

Like a side by side comparison. I know Fenty Beauty. Back a long time ago when I first started doing all this, I made a real, probably like one of the worst reels I've ever made in my life. I think it was, it was one of the first reels I ever made. It was the year, whatever year she performed at the Super Bowl. But I went through a bunch of her products and it was all like horrible stuff, I think at the time. And maybe she's changed that now. But at the time she was still using like parabens and some of her products, which at this point, I mean, anybody that is still using parabens, like.

[Alex Clark]

Why are parabens bad in your makeup?

[Whitney DeBona]

So parabens are, we know that they can be endocrine disrupting. And so they're basically messing with your hormones. They mimic estrogen. And nobody has really studied in depth the effect that that can have on our bodies.

[Alex Clark]

What kind of names do parabens have on the ingredient label?

[Whitney DeBona]

So it will end in the word paraben. It would say like methyl paraben or butyl paraben or something. There's like a bunch of them. But it will end in paraben. The majority of companies are jumping on the paraben free bandwagon and making products that do not contain parabens. And so any company that is actively avoiding parabens, they're putting that on the product. So it's pretty easy to look at a product and they'll, they'll have it listed right on the front. It'll say paraben free. If it doesn't say that, it probably has parabens in it.

[Alex Clark]

So if you are looking at your makeup besides talc in parabens, what other ingredients? If it says this, you've got to throw it away right now, I would.

[Whitney DeBona]

Say fragrance is huge. A lot of people don't realize that fragrance is an ingredient listed on a lot of makeup products. Because we think of fragrance like, oh, that's perfume or something scented.

[Alex Clark]

No, it's in the powders. I mean, I, I'm thinking of the Too Faced Chocolate Soleil Bronzer. Smells like chocolate.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah. But some of them that don't smell like anything also have fragrance in them. And so those are the ones where it's kind of sneaky because some makeup products like they might have a funny smell or whatever. And so they're coming up with, with whatever concoction they're creating to make the product not have a funny smell. It's all going to be under that umbrella phrase, fragrance. So it's going to say fragrance on there. But fragrance could contain like a thousand, two thousand different chemicals. And they don't have to disclose, they don't have to tell us what is in that fragrance because it's protected under trade secret laws. So I always look for fragrance. If the company doesn't specifically disclose what is in their fragrance, then I, I'm not going to use it and I'm not going to buy it.

[Alex Clark]

What about skincare? What ingredients are really dangerous in skincare products?

[Whitney DeBona]

I think the same thing. I always look for fragrance in my beauty products, skincare products, really in anything. Even if we're talking about shampoos, lotions, anything like that.

[Alex Clark]

Do dyes matter?

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah, I think avoiding synthetic dyes, this is one of those questionable things because a lot of the clean beauty brands still use synthetic dyes in their products. So some of your big brand clean products that you're going to find like at Sephora, they're avoiding a lot of these specific chemicals. But then a lot of the lip products are still going to contain synthetic dyes. And so if you're looking on the label of a lipstick or a lip gloss, if it's says, you know, lake whatever and has like the color on.

[Alex Clark]

It, that's what's in the Laneige lip balm.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes. So that's a petroleum derived synthetic dye.

[Alex Clark]

So would you use that?

[Whitney DeBona]

So I have used some of those, but now I have found that there are brands that are making lip products that do not use the synthetic dyes. They color them with other natural ingredients. And so I've been looking for more of that lately because the more I learn about, you know, lipstick, you're putting that directly on your lips and you're licking your lips and you're ingesting that lipstick. So, you know, a lot of this stuff just kind of comes down to like personal preference and what you're comfortable with.

[Unknown]

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[Alex Clark]

I'm not.

[Unknown]

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[Alex Clark]

I never hear anybody talking about the nail industry in the non toxic world. Is there such a thing as a truly non toxic nail polish?

[Whitney DeBona]

I know that there are nail polish companies that are making cleaner polishes. The problem with the nail industry and and I know that this is a huge concern for women that actually work in nail salons is that a lot of the nail products are they contain formaldehyde releasing agents and so that's a huge concern for, you know, women that are working in these nail salons every day. Being exposed to all of this formaldehyde, which we know is carcinogenic.

[Alex Clark]

Every time I go to the nail salon. And I mean, I have the luxury of like being in Arizona. Besides, a couple months of the year, it's too hot. You have to just have every, you know, all doors close, air conditioning on most of the year. It is beautiful here. And so it's just like nice weather all the time. And I, if their doors are closed, I'm like, hey, do you mind if we keep these doors open and prop them open? Because the, the fumes in there. I absolutely loathe getting my nails done. Pedicure is different. Like, that's nice, but I don't know about you, I hate getting my nails done. It just sucks. You can't use your hands. And so the whole time I'm sitting there, I just like, I feel myself breathing in these chemicals and I'm like, get this over with as soon as possible. What about the hair care industry? Like, what are the biggest dangers lurking in our shampoos or styling products?

[Whitney DeBona]

Again, going back to fragrance, I think that that is like the biggest thing. If I am scanning a product really quickly to see if it, you know, contains clean ingredients or it's something that I might want to buy, the first thing that I look for is fragrance. The other thing that I look for, the problem is with a lot of the preservatives that are used in these products. So we, whenever you have a product that contains any amount of water, which most of our skincare, makeup, hair care products, they are water based. And so when you have a water based product, you have to add preservatives to it to keep it from molding.

[Alex Clark]

Right.

[Whitney DeBona]

And so a lot of these synthetic preservatives, that's where we're finding out, okay, some of these are actually harmful. That's where the parabens, I mean, that's a, that's why they are included in these products, because they're a preservative. So there's another preservative called phenoxyl ethanol, and this one is. People got all up in arms about it because if you go into Sephora or Target or wherever and you're shopping in the clean aisle, you're still going to find a ton of products that contain phenoxylethanol. But there are studies out there that talk about phenoxyethanol being harmful.

[Alex Clark]

And in what ways, what does it do to you.

[Whitney DeBona]

So phenoxylethanol, there are studies out there that show that it is actually a neurotoxin and there are studies out there specifically that talk about it being very toxic and harmful for babies specifically. If you go in the baby aisle and you look at a lot of the baby products, you're going to see phenoxy ethanol in those products too, which just kind of blows my mind. But so anyways, phenoxyl ethanol is, it's, it's one of those. I think it's a better preservative than parabens, but it's still something that I would not consider to be a completely clean ingredient and it's something that I look to actively avoid. So if I'm in the clean beauty aisle, even I'm going to scan the product, I'm going to look for fragrance. I'm going to see are they disclosing what's in this fragrance? Is it synthetic fragrance or is it a natural derived fragrance? Because that's another thing that, you know, you can look for. A lot of these companies are making their products now with fragrance, that is essential oils.

[Alex Clark]

Right.

[Whitney DeBona]

Which, you know, some people might have allergy issues or whatever, why they want to avoid essential oils. But for sure, for sure, better than.

[Alex Clark]

What are you using to scan? You said you scan, you have an app.

[Whitney DeBona]

I do my own scan where I just kind of look at the back of the product really quick and I'm like, does it have fragrance? Does it have phenoxylethanol? And the other thing I look for is pegs or pegs. So if you see that on a product, that's something else that I look to avoid. Those are ethoxylated ingredients and they have a risk of contamination with I4 dioxane, which is, it's like a byproduct of the, the way that they manufacture these products.

[Alex Clark]

Do you use hairspray?

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes.

[Alex Clark]

What hairspray do you use?

[Whitney DeBona]

I use Innocents Hairspray.

[Alex Clark]

I was going to ask you about innocents. I mean, as far as non toxic hair care goes, do you trust them?

[Whitney DeBona]

I do. I think they're a great brand. I really like their products. I've tried a lot of the non toxic hair brands and they're tough like some of them, you know, when you're used, if you're used to Pantene Pro V and that, you know, smooth kind of feeling that you get from using those types of products. When you try to switch to the clean natural products, it, it's, it can be tough But Inner Sense is, I think, the best brand that I have found that works for my hair. That still feels kind of like a luxury shampoo brand.

[Alex Clark]

Besides cosmetics and skincare, you're also doing a lot of lawsuits for plastic surgeons, plastic surgery offices, on behalf of patients, med spas. So my question is, are there any laser treatments that you can get that you are like, okay, it's not only safe, it also gives amazing results.

[Whitney DeBona]

Highly recommend when it comes to the lasers. So I have had lots of women reach out to me with burns problems, issues from a lot of these lasers that we see out there. Like, the BBL laser is super popular. I am very scared now. Just, I have seen too much. Like, I have gone down. I've gone down a pathway that I can't, you know, I can't get out of. But I think the one thing that I would still do and recommend if you're going to a safe, reputable provider is just regular microneedling. I'm out on the RF microneedling now. That scares me.

[Alex Clark]

What's the difference between microneedling and RF microneedling?

[Whitney DeBona]

So RF microneedling involves a heat. They basically are using a really high heat intensity along with the microneedling, and they say that it's supposed to give you, like, a tightening effect to your skin. I've seen and heard too many people saying that it causes fat loss, especially when you're using it in your face. Oh, that's like, if they go too deep with the needle, you know, somebody uses the wrong setting on your face, like, that can be a big problem because we want the fat in our face.

[Alex Clark]

I've been wanting to try micro needling now for a while and haven't done it yet. It's on my list of things I really want to do.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah, I think micro needling is great. And you get that? Yeah. Okay. I haven't done it in a while, but I have done it well.

[Alex Clark]

People need to watch on YouTube because Whitney's gorgeous and, like, super trendy and cute. So, like, I trust you. Like, you saying, like, this is safer. Do this. Like, you know what you're talking about. I saw on social media that you, this summer were going back and forth between, should I continue getting Botox or not? Tell us the pros and cons, and if it is as bad as some people say it is in the crunchy space.

[Whitney DeBona]

This is something that I have been battling with. I still have been hesitant to, like, fully come out and say, like, I'm never getting Botox again. And I Think it's more of just the fear of, like, what is my face going to look like, you know, if I just stop getting it. But I haven't had Botox. So March was the last time that I had any Botox in my face. So it's, it's all worn off by now, right? And I'm like, okay, I'm all right, I'm okay. You know, ask me again in like two or three years. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see how things go. But I interviewed on my podcast earlier this year an attorney named Ray Chester, and he is an attorney who sued Allergan, who makes Botox in a bunch of different cases where all of these men and women and also children were severely injured by Botox. So, you know, I'm researching, oh, what's in my mascara, what's in my, you know, lotion, whatever. The whole time I'm going and getting Botox injected into my face, and I just kind of kept telling myself, if you just do a quick Google search of Botox, like, does Botox cause cancer? I think like one day maybe I had searched that and immediately it pops up and it's like, no, Botox is safe. You know, whatever. That's what the AI will tell you. And, you know, just spit that out. So I had just justified it in my head, like, okay, Botox is, is fine. It doesn't cause cancer. There's no, like, major issues with it. And then I just kind of didn't look into it any further because I just, I think I just really didn't want to know, though. So I brought Ray Chester on and I talked to him and he really went in depth about these cases that he handled and the severe, you know, life debilitating injuries that some of these people sustained from Botox. And I'm gonna say that. And he even said this, that the majority of those cases were people who were getting Botox for therapeutic medical purposes. So they were getting really high amounts of Botox injected for whatever the medical treatment or medical condition was that they.

[Alex Clark]

Were using it to treat, like migraines or sweating.

[Whitney DeBona]

Migraines, sweating. There are, there are a ton of medical conditions that they are using Botox to treat. And so in those cases, typically they're using way higher, you know, dosing, and that's how people end up getting the Botox poisoning. He also talked about his, his one client. He had multiple clients, but there was one specific client, she was like a doctor and, you know, just went in for regular run of the mill, Botox, cosmetic injections. She got something like 60 units or like, a very normal amount of Botox, and ended up, like, her entire life was ruined. She literally could not be a doctor anymore. Like, it completely destroyed her life. And so he kind of told me the story about his client, and then I started digging more. And if you go online, you're going to find the. These groups where there are thousands of women who are reporting that they have had these terrible, terrible side effects from Botox injections. And there's a one particular page that I follow. It's like, never talks on Instagram. They might be on Facebook, too. But, you know, the stories of these women on that page. And I've had women reach out to me ever since I started kind of speaking up about Botox and just telling me, like, what happened to them. And so I think that a lot of this, again, is being. I don't want to say hidden, but it's like, I never knew any of this stuff. And I've been getting Botox for, like, 10 years. So you really have to dig to find this information. And once you find it and you really kind of look into it, I don't know, I just sit here and I'm like, does the risk outweigh the reward? And I think that that's the thing that we have to always look at when we're looking at any of these cosmetic treatments. Like, do I hate these wrinkles on my forehead so badly that if I got this horrible, you know, neurological debilitating condition from getting Botox, like, does that outweigh the benefit of not having any wrinkles?

[Alex Clark]

The conviction, y'all, it's. It's fierce.

[Unknown]

Now.

[Alex Clark]

I have not gotten. I have not gotten any Botox injections for a little over a year now. So I had to stop.

[Whitney DeBona]

You look great.

[Alex Clark]

Well, thank you. It's. It's. Things are starting to go a little haywire, and I've got the frowny sitting on my bathroom counter, and I have yet to gain the confidence to figure out how to do it.

[Whitney DeBona]

Oh, my gosh.

[Alex Clark]

Intimidated. But I'm going to interview the founder, and so I'm going to ask questions, and I'm going to have her, like, show me. I'm going to, like, go in the bathroom with her and have her show me what I'm. What I need to do. But, yeah, so I got an autoimmune disorder. And then I think that was, like, the last thing that was overflowing my bucket. And then I started having way worse symptoms. I Think my body was like, no more Botox. But here's the other thing I will say about Botox, because it does wear off after three months, that we think we need to get it every three months. I really do think women, if you want to get Botox, can benefit from only getting it once or twice a year, max. I don't think you need to go every three months. I think it. It helps your face relax and to such a state and train your face not to, like, fall into certain, you know, wrinkle patterns that, like, you'll be good once or twice a year.

[Unknown]

At the.

[Alex Clark]

At the most, maybe twice if you're, like, way older and your wrinkles are deeper.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

But, you know, 30s, I think you could totally get away with once a year.

[Whitney DeBona]

I completely agree with that. And I think I feel a little bit almost like lied to or like, just very misled on the whole Botox thing, because that's so true. Like, any injector, they're going to tell you, you know, every three to four months, you better get back in there.

[Alex Clark]

You know, six, seven hundred bucks or whatever they want.

[Whitney DeBona]

You, like, get in here, get here, get your Botox. They should be telling you other things that you could be doing or should be doing to take care of your skin in the meantime. And I think for so long, I think my skin was just super dehydrated. I think I just wasn't using good skin care. I wasn't doing other things to help keep the wrinkles at bay that I could have been doing. And then, like you said, maybe just getting Botox once a year versus, you know, every three months like clockwork. But, yeah, I'm on the frownies train. I've been using the frownies very religiously, and I do. I think that they work.

[Alex Clark]

Really?

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes.

[Alex Clark]

And how long have you used them?

[Whitney DeBona]

So I quit doing Botox in, like, March, and I think I started using them probably in, like, April. So I don't use them every single night. I use them maybe like, three or four nights a week. And I think. I mean, I don't know.

[Alex Clark]

No, you look fantastic. I mean, you don't have any resting, like, resting. You don't have any lines.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah. And. And I will say, because it's like, the more you go, the more you need to get. And so I think when I first started getting. And I did dysport, too, so dysport is more units than Botox, but dysport, I want to say when I first started getting it, I would maybe get like, 60 units. Or something. The last time I went, when I got the bill, I was like, how many units did I just get in my face? And she said 150 units. And I'm like, how did, how did we get from 60 to 150 units? You know, but just creeps up on you. And the next thing you know, you know they're telling you not only do you need it in your forehead, you need it around your eyes, you need to do it on your nose. You got to get the lip flip. People are putting it in their masseter muscles now.

[Alex Clark]

Like people are just everywhere in their neck, everywhere.

[Whitney DeBona]

And so it's, you know, it's very expensive. You're putting all of that toxic substance in your body and it's just, it's a lot.

[Unknown]

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[Alex Clark]

What are the biggest shams in the med spa laser facial industry that people should not fall for?

[Whitney DeBona]

Cool sculpting.

[Alex Clark]

What's wrong with cool sculpting?

[Whitney DeBona]

So cool sculpting is this machine that is supposed to freeze your fat. And so it's like these little, you know, applicator things, and they'll stick it to different areas of your body. Usually they say, like, you can put it on your, like, stomach pooch. Or people do it on their underarms or even on your chin. And it's supposed to freeze your fat and make the frat. The fat kind of, like, melt away. It has a horrific side effect called paradoxical adipose hyperplasia, where instead of the fat cells shrinking, they actually expand and grow into, like, a tumor.

[Alex Clark]

No way.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes. And I'm, like, so ashamed to say this, but I did coolsculpting back probably like 10 years ago or something. When it first came out and everybody was advertising for it, it was like the latest, greatest thing. Every med spa was getting it, and I did it. Thank God I didn't have that side effect happen to me. But I can tell you that nobody told me that was like, that was a poss disability. And so many of these people that have had that happen have said the same thing. Like, nobody warned me that this was a side effect. Nobody told me that this could happen. And something else that we've recently found out about this side effect is that the makers of the coolsculpting machine were actually kind of fudging the numbers on how often this side effect was happening and how many people were reporting it. There was a huge article done by the New York Times. I think it was like last year, maybe the year before that it came out where they really dug into. I think when they first were reporting the side effect, it was something like 1 in 7,000 or 1 in 10,000 people, something like that. And this article in the New York Times said no, that the numbers are actually closer to, like, 1 in 3,000 or possibly 1 in 1,000.

[Unknown]

No way.

[Whitney DeBona]

Which that's a huge difference. Right? And if you're going in together, get this treatment done, someone should be saying, hey, just so you know, you know, one in three, even one in 3,000, like that to me is kind of a high risk. And again, it comes back to that. You have to weigh out the benefit versus the reward of whatever you're going to get.

[Alex Clark]

The girlies are not cool sculpting. Okay. The girlies are not cool sculpting ever again.

[Whitney DeBona]

We're not doing cool sculpting.

[Alex Clark]

Vampire facials.

[Whitney DeBona]

I think it's a very kind of harsh treatment and I've heard mixed reviews about it. I've never done a vampire facial facial, but there was recently fda. I think the FDA came out and did a whole thing on it. But basically there were these women that had gone to this med spa for vampire facials and they got HIV because the med spa was using contaminated, dirty equipment. So and that goes back to be careful where you're going kind of thing. So I don't want to say like, oh my gosh, if you get a vampire facial, you're going to get hiv. I think a lot of these non invasive treatments honestly are shams.

[Alex Clark]

So you need invasive if you're going to get results and then you have a whole nother set of risks that you're dealing with.

[Whitney DeBona]

That's a whole nother set of risks. But yeah, I think so many of these med spas, you know, they're buying these machines, lasers, whatever they are cool sculpting. There's also, you know, there's the fat freezing machines and then there's the fat melting machines where there's.

[Alex Clark]

What about this thing that shakes that you put on your tummy to give you abs? I tried that.

[Whitney DeBona]

Did it work?

[Alex Clark]

No.

[Whitney DeBona]

Well, did you get abs?

[Alex Clark]

No.

[Unknown]

I mean, not really.

[Whitney DeBona]

I don't know, I've never tried that one. But I just think so many of these non invasive things, the, the medical professionals get sold on them because they have these reps for these whatever is like the newest, greatest thing.

[Alex Clark]

They come in and they're like pharmaceutical reps and doctors.

[Whitney DeBona]

Exactly. And they're going to say, oh my gosh, your patients are going to love this. They're going to get this fantastic results result. So then the surgeon or the provider spends thousands of dollars to buy this machine and then what do they have to do? They need to recover their cost. So they're going to push it and they're going to tell all their patients to try it and they're going to say it's the greatest thing in the world. And I just think the reality is most people that have tried non invasive things, like did you really get that great of a result? Most people would say no.

[Alex Clark]

What clean beauty brands at Sephora are actually clean clean.

[Whitney DeBona]

I'm gonna say this It. So obviously Sephora has its clean section. Okay. And they have their own set of, I think there's like seven ingredients or nine ingredients that they have banned. And so it's like phthalates and parabens and you know, some of these things that we know are harmful and that people buying cleaning, clean products are generally looking to avoid. Like, everybody's making up their own definition of what clean is these days. That's the problem. There's no, the FDA hasn't come out with a standard definition and say, or, you know, nobody, no government regulatory authority has said this is what is clean or this is what is okay to use. So it's kind of everybody using their own personal judgment. For some people, you know, is it, is it better to go into Sephora or Target and buy something out of the clean section? Yes, because you at least know they're not going to use parabens and phthalates and some of these other things. But I kind of have a little bit stricter of a standard. And so like I was talking about earlier with some of those preservatives that I try to avoid, like I will go in and I have have to look for that. And it's not so easy to just say, well, Ilia, for example, is a clean brand because there are some products in the Ilia line that I probably wouldn't buy. So it, you almost have to look at every single product on a case by case and ingredient by ingredient basis, which is Kosas. Yeah. So I love that brand. But again, is every single thing in their entire line completely clean? No, I think that they still use some like synthetic dyes and some of their stuff. So again, it just comes back to like, what are you comfortable with?

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Whitney DeBona]

There's people that are like, I don't want anything. Like if it's made from petroleum, I don't want it anywhere near my body. But then there's people that are like, well, if, you know, if they're testing it, if they're doing third party testing and you know, making sure that it doesn't have lead or it doesn't have.

[Alex Clark]

This, you know, so not at Sephora and also not makeup, but skincare Agent.

[Whitney DeBona]

Natural for that is actually a very clean brand. I think that's a great brand for skincare.

[Alex Clark]

What, what brands are you using? Skincare and makeup.

[Whitney DeBona]

Makeup, I'm using, I, I use the Kosas foundation. I really love that. And their concealer. I use a lot of the OG brand makeup products. They have like a contour set that I Love. There's a couple of brands, like Jane Iredale makes some great clean makeup. RMS is another one. I think those are probably kind of like my staple. Go to's and then skincare. I'm probably also gonna have people coming after me for this.

[Alex Clark]

But Oliveta, there's controversy with them.

[Whitney DeBona]

There's controversy because it's like, people are.

[Alex Clark]

Like, it's an mlm and that's. Some people don't like that.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes, exactly.

[Alex Clark]

I'm not a fan of that. But I. I mean. But you really do like it?

[Whitney DeBona]

Oh, I love it. And same thing. Like, I. I've never bought any kind of, like, MLM products. And I kept hearing about it, and then people were asking me, especially when I started talking about Botox, because they were talking about that Botox in a bottle serum. So I was like, whatever, I'll just get it and try it. And I loved it. And that's what I've been using.

[Alex Clark]

What do women need to know about Tampax tampons?

[Whitney DeBona]

Well, first of all, it's not just Tampax. It's, you know, a lot of the brands. Because there was that recent study that was done, and it wasn't just Tampax. It was a lot of these organic tampon brands, although they didn't release and tell us which ones that showed that they contained all of these heavy metals and lead and all of this stuff. How long have women been using tampons? And nobody ever thought to test them before for this? Nobody ever thought to, like, see if they're safe for us to be sticking inside of our bodies for, you know, I know seven days a week, every single month, I use Garnu.

[Alex Clark]

And I love them so much. They're a 100 organic cotton tampon pad company.

[Whitney DeBona]

Okay.

[Alex Clark]

I love them so much. I, I basically, most of the brands that advertise on my show, it's because I am loving and using the product. And we're beating down their door, begging them, like, what kind of deal can we make? You're a very small business. We want you to advertise on our show. Because I'm using and talking about it and love it. And I want. I think it's such an important product that I want my audience to know about it. So, like, I just, like, force them all to advertise. Like, I'm going to them. That's like, people get all Ben. Well, they're sponsor. How can we really trust them? Like, I. I mean, you can ask them. I, like, beg them to be a sponsor because I'm using it, but Garu has been amazing to me.

[Whitney DeBona]

Okay, I need to try that one.

[Alex Clark]

Is this vaginal rejuvenation procedure that some people are getting, actually tightening and beautifying down there.

[Whitney DeBona]

I have very mixed feelings about the whole vaginal rejuvenation phenomenon that is going on on. A lot of these plastic surgeons are advertising for labia plastis. And, you know, it's something that I follow a ton of plastic surgeons just based on the things that I talk about. And so I see this advertised all the time. And it's just one of those things where I'm like, if you are having, like, an actual problem down there, if you're in pain, if you, like, listen, all things can happen after you have kids. Like, you know, lots of things can go on. And if you need surgical procedure to, you know, fix something that is actually a problem, then I have no problem with that. And I'm all for that. But I have a problem with plastic surgeons, people in the aesthetic industry, advertising for these procedures that probably the majority of women do not need. And it's like they're making us feel bad or insecure about something that we did not need to feel bad or insecure about.

[Alex Clark]

I think it's insecurities fueled by the porn industry.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes, I do. I think that that has a lot to do with it. And sometimes I've said this before, but I'm like, unless your sole source of income is like, you know, your only fans account, then, like, why are you. Why do you care?

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[Whitney DeBona]

What your vagina looks like on, like, I don't know. I'm just like, who are you doing this, by the way?

[Alex Clark]

Men are never doing that.

[Whitney DeBona]

No, men don't care. Their balls could be sagging to the ground. And do you think that they're going and getting like a ball lift or getting like. No.

[Alex Clark]

Remember that next time you're, like, super insecure about what's going on. Is clean perfume actually clean.

[Whitney DeBona]

This again comes back to, what are you comfortable with? Do you want to avoid all synthetic chemicals in your fragrance? And if so, you're looking at your only option is really using a straight essential oil. So a lot of people are doing that. They're making, like, these rollers with, you know, essential oils. They don't really last. You know, it's not going to last. Like a perfume is going to last. So you can kind of like keep it with you and carry it around with you and. And put it on all the time.

[Alex Clark]

Do you trust the dime beauty perfumes?

[Whitney DeBona]

I don't think that dime is a completely clean brand. I will say that I don't know that I've actually looked at the ingredients in their perfume. So I don't know. So I'm pretty sure that they use synthetic ingredients. And what I'm going to say about the synthetic ingredients is if you have a company, so there's one company, for instance, Henry Rose, have you heard of that one?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Whitney DeBona]

Okay. They, you know, have done extensive testing on a lot of the synthetic chemicals that they're using. And you know, they talk about how initially when they started that brand, they wanted it all to be plant derived natural ingredients, but they could couldn't get it like it just, you just can't get it to that high quality perfume that people are used to when everything is a natural ingredient. So but they've done extensive testing on those chemicals that they are using. And so again, it all just comes back to like that per personal preference thing of am I comfortable with synthetic ingredients? Does this company actually perform safety testing on their synthetic chemicals that they're using and are they releasing that to the public?

[Unknown]

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[Whitney DeBona]

Okay.

[Unknown]

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[Alex Clark]

So many women give up switching from their traditional deodorant to a non toxic one because it's a hard process. It takes time, it's a lot of trial and error. And so they're just dying to throw in the towel and go back to their secret aluminum free deodorant. What should those women know?

[Whitney DeBona]

Deodorant is hard. That's been one of the toughest product switches for me. I think the majority of people are sensitive to baking soda and so a lot of the natural deodorants contain baking soda. And so people are always like, I try the natural deodorant and I broke out in this horrible rash. And you know, it was, it was terrible. I'm going back to Dove. I'm going back to Secret. What I'm using right now is the Humble brands deodorant. That one is working for me. Deodorant is so personal and it's so individual to every single person. So I could find one that I'm like, I love this, this works great for me. Me, someone else could try it. I'm always hesitant to recommend deodorants because then people will try it and they'll be like, I got a rash. I, my sisters, they all hate me. Because like every natural deodorant, very personal.

[Alex Clark]

And that's why it's trial and error. The only two clean ingredient deodorant brands that I'm like, this works, this works. No issues are Zebra and Salt and Stone. Those are the only two that I, I personally have dealt with. But then I have people in my audience, they're like, I like Native, I like whatever. Which Nature Native. I don't think Native is a clean brand.

[Whitney DeBona]

No, I don't trust Native and I don't use any of their products. I think, again, is it better than Dove or Secret or whatever?

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, probably barely a step above.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah. But that's not one. And honestly, I don't even think people really like native. Like a lot of the people that I've heard tried it. I tried it back in the day and it didn't work for me and I thought it was awful. But yeah, it's. I would just say keep trying, keep, you know, moving forward. I've had the situation happen to me several times where I found one that I was like, oh, I love this and I used it and then I was like, this is great. And I bought like three more just to have it stocked up. And then I broke out in a rash from it. Yeah, so sometimes it's kind of like a delayed rash. Something that I did recently because that happened to me. And I used hypochlorous acid spray and I sprayed it in my armpits for a couple days and it cleared up. And then I tried the deodorant again and I've had zero issues.

[Alex Clark]

Before booking a major plastic surgery, what research should someone do on the surgeon?

[Whitney DeBona]

It's tough because there's so much information on the Internet about these surgeons that may or may not be true. A lot of it is kind of smoke and mirrors and stuff that's being put out by the surgeons themselves. I think there's a huge problem going on right now with advertising in the plastic surgery and also in the med spa and the, you know, just the entire aesthetic industry. A lot of false advertising and misrepresentation that's going on. And so it makes it really, really hard for somebody to find a plastic surgeon or an aesthetic provider that is actually, you know, qualified and reputable. So the first thing that I would say to do if you're getting plastic surgery is make sure that you are going to a surgeon who is a board certified plastic surgeon. People think that if you, if you have board certified on your website, it could be anything. That. Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

That it could be board certified muffin man and then try to do a BBL on you.

[Whitney DeBona]

Exactly. And that is what has been happening is, you know, we've had situations where like a pediatrician just decided, hey, I'm going to start doing cosmetic surgery, did liposuction on a lady and killed her. Holy sp. That just recently happened. And there's so many cases like that. So people don't realize that anyone who is a medical doctor can perform cosmetic surgery.

[Alex Clark]

What do you think about liposuction?

[Whitney DeBona]

I'm not against it.

[Alex Clark]

There's always a risk, but there's always a risk. It's not something that you're seeing like Pop up. Like people are really getting messed up by.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah, no, I mean, I mean, some people do. Again, that goes back to who do you go to? And all of that. But no, I'm not like, nobody should ever get liposuction. It's terrible. I don't really feel that way about any specific plastic surgery. I know I've spoken up about BBL surgeries in the past because that is a very, very dangerous procedure and if it's not done by the right person, I mean, we had a huge epidemic in Florida where we had a ton of women who were dying from these BBL surgeries. And it became such a problem that they had to actually create this task force and make all these rules around bbls and how they could be performed and how many they could perform in a day. Because there were surgeons in Florida who were lining women up and starting surgery at like 7am and then still operating on women, you know, starting surgeries at like 11 o'clock the same night.

[Unknown]

What?

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah, it was insane. You would think that the surgeons would be like, hey, I'm gonna put the patients first and I'm gonna to be safe and responsible. But no, like the Florida regulators had to step in and say, you're only allowed to perform three of these in a day. You know, it's too dangerous. So yeah, there's been a lot of issues with bbls going back to what I was saying about the plastic versus cosmetic. So the cosmetic, you can be a board certified cosmetic surgeon, but that's like a completely separate board certification that's kind of been made up by I plastic surgeons who did not go to school for plastic surgery. So maybe they went to school for something else and then they decided that they wanted to do cosmetic surgery. So that's kind of like a separate certification. And you really want to know and understand the difference before you hire a plastic surgeon. Because there's a huge difference in the training and everything that the board certified plastic surgeons have gone through versus a board certified cosmetic surgeon.

[Alex Clark]

If someone has found themselves in a situation where they believe that a beauty procedure or a cosmetic product has seriously harmed them, what are their options?

[Whitney DeBona]

That's going to depend on a lot of factors, but definitely speak to a lawyer, talk to a personal injury attorney. Whether or not you're going to be able to take action or bring a suit is going to depend on a lot of different things. For instance, going back to Botox. So somebody who gets injured by Botox, you're going to have very little recourse at this stage in the game because Botox now has FDA approved black box warning on all the products and they have all these warnings and those warnings get passed on to the providers. And then the provider is supposed to be passing on those warnings to you as the patient. It kind of insulates the manufacturers of a lot of these drugs and devices from lawsuit. So if it's a situation where they already have a warning on the product and you know it's deemed to be an adequate warning, when they pass that product off to the medical provider, it's like, okay, well, now it's on you. It, you know, our, our hands are clean now. Whatever, whatever this device that we made does to you, that's not my problem anymore. That gets kind of transferred off of them. And then in terms of plastic surgery lawsuits, you know, that's a whole different game. Or if it's a suit against the actual medical provider, a lot of those cases it comes down to, did you get proper informed consent? Did the surgeon sit down and tell you, these are all the risks of this surgery? Did they have you properly sign, you know, the informed consent forms? Something that, when I started looking into these cases, I was really shocked to find out is that a majority of plastic surgeons in the state of Florida and also a lot of other states are not required to carry medical malpractice insurance. So you go to a plastic surgeon, they bought you, they hurt you, kill you, God forbid you find out after the fact that they have zero medical malpractice insurance, you might have very little recourse. And you're going to have a very hard time finding an attorney that's going to take that case, because they could take the case and they could fight that plastic surgeon and try to get you money, but you're basically going after the plastic surgeons like personal assets at that point.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[Whitney DeBona]

And they might not have any assets to go after. So there's been a lot of situations where women have reached out to me and I've tried so hard to, you know, figure out a way like, what can we do?

[Alex Clark]

And there's like, nothing.

[Whitney DeBona]

And there's nothing.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, that's terrifying.

[Whitney DeBona]

It's really sad.

[Alex Clark]

That's really important information I think right there to remember with your line of work. Would it have been like your dream client to get the McDonald's coffee lady or the Gorilla Glue girl recently in the last couple years that like, use Gorilla Glue as hair gel?

[Whitney DeBona]

Oh, gosh. Some of those cases that are super high profile like that, I almost think it's like, oh, gosh, do you want that case? Because then you're painted in such a light and there's so many things like the McDonald's coffee case. I think people just have that in their mind. Like, that was this frivolous lawsuit and like this woman, you know, she just spilled a little cup of coffee and then now she's a billionaire. And that's not true. And actually, if you really dive into the facts of that case, McDonald's was extremely negligent. There had been multiple, very serious injuries reported of people getting, like, burned. I'm talking, like third degree burns. We're not talking about. Oh, it was hot, you know, wasn't.

[Alex Clark]

It, like, down to her bone?

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes, it literally, like, melted. She was like an elderly lady. It like melted her skin off. And it was really, really a horrific injury. And when they dug into it, it was like, well, McDonald's knew you shouldn't be selling coffee out of a window that is hot enough to melt somebody's flesh off. So, you know, I laugh, but.

[Alex Clark]

No, but it's been long enough. There's been enough time.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes, yes, time has passed now. But, you know, I. People just get such a negative, like, idea of some of these cases without actually knowing all of the facts. So would I have represented her? Of course I would have represented.

[Alex Clark]

If you could provide one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, mentally, or spiritually, what would yours be?

[Whitney DeBona]

I would say, and this is really for all of the women, is try and learn how to love yourself and accept yourself the way that you are. We are getting so bombarded every single day with just everything on social media, advertisements, all these different things telling us that we're not good enough and that we're not pretty enough and that we need. You need this eye cream, you need this surgery, you need this labia plasty, like, whatever it is. And they're just really feeding off of our insecurities. That's something recently that I've really been dealing with myself. And I'm not saying, like, I love my, you know, 10 step skin routine and I love, like, trying all of the fun beauty things. And I think it's all. It's all great and fun, but I just wish that we could all stop putting so much emphasis on that and focusing more on just like the good that we can do in the world.

[Alex Clark]

Focus more on your legacy, not your lines.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes, yes, you should brand that. Should trademark it. I can help you file it. That's great. I love that.

[Alex Clark]

Where can people follow you on Instagram? And also you're Going to be doing a giveaway with some of your favorite non toxic beauty skincare brands for my audience. So they need to follow you. What is it?

[Whitney DeBona]

Yes. And they can follow me on Instagram and Tick Tock. I'm trying to get my Tick Tock going, but it's Low Talks Lawyer.

[Alex Clark]

You also have a podcast. Talk about your podcast.

[Whitney DeBona]

I do. So I have a podcast. It's the Beauty justice podcast. We're actually, we're rebranding everything right now. It was Beauty justice where we rebranding to Low Talks Lawyer. But yeah, I have a podcast and you know, I interviewed like the attorney I was talking about with Botox and I've had plastic surgeons on the show and just a lot of different things dealing with kind of legal and beauty and safety.

[Alex Clark]

So yeah, I love the beauty podcast like that. I also love this one. It's like between two girls that used to be like beauty editors at magazines and they just talk about like, which, what new trends, like what new products are like crushing it. Amazing, worth it. Which ones are like absolutely terrible.

[Whitney DeBona]

Yeah, I love that.

[Alex Clark]

I, I love listening to stuff like that. How can somebody reach out to you.

[Whitney DeBona]

For Legal Match Matters so they can find me? We're again redoing our website right now, but LowToxLawyer.com they'll be able to reach out to me through there. I also have a link in my bio on Instagram. So if anybody has a case, they can reach out to me through there. They can reach out to me through Instagram. I'll give you a free case evaluation and if it's not a case that I can help you with, I can probably refer people to somebody that, that can help them.

[Alex Clark]

I told you this before we started recording, but I came across you on social media. I sent you to my team. I said this, this is such a unique career. She has such unique expertise. I think it's perfect for my rebrand. It's perfect for my audience. I thought, I thought this was such a fun, different type of conversation on the show. So thank you, Whitney, for coming on Culture Apothecary.

[Whitney DeBona]

You're welcome. Thanks for having me. This was fun.

[Alex Clark]

The cool sculpting stuff better go viral because that is some of the most mind blowing information I have heard about anything in the beauty industry that's causing harm. New episodes come out every single Monday and Thursday at 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. And you can listen to this podcast anywhere you get your podcasts. Just subscribe to Culture Apothecary. Make sure you're actually subscribing or following the show and then leave a five star review. This is a free way to really help other people discover the show makes us look credible to potential future guests. And yeah, my bosses read them, so, you know, leave a nice little compliment of how you found us and what you like. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture physically, mentally and spiritually. This is culture Apothecary. And I'm Alex Clark.