← Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark
Who Charlie Kirk Really Was | His Best Friend & Producer Andrew Kolvet
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Foreign.
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What if I told you we're diving into every single conspiracy theory surrounding the life and death of Charlie Kirk? From $150 million bribes to Catholic convers rumors to why the tent camera footage disappeared. We're pulling back the curtain. Today. I'm joined by someone who knew Charlie better than almost anyone, Andrew Colvette, executive producer of the Charlie Kirk show and one of Charlie's best friends. We talk about what Charlie and Erica's family vacations were really like, the biggest disagreements they ever had, and what's next with Erica stepping in as CEO of Turning Point usa. No question is off limits. This is the episode where we go there. Watch this episode on the real Alex Clark YouTube or you can watch it on the Culture Apothecary Spotify channel. Leaving a five star review right now is crucial as we rebuild without Charlie. I'd love to know how you found the show. If you're new, if you've been here forever, but you haven't left a review, tell us what you think about it. You can find the show on Instagram at Culture Apothecary or find me at Real Alex Clark. Support the organization and the show with merch@tpusamerch.com Code Alex Clark, by the way, will get you 10% off. Please welcome executive producer of the Charlie Kirk show and one of Charlie's best friends, Andrew Colvette to Culture Apothecary. I always describe you as Charlie's right hand man, one of his very best friends. Producer. I mean, you're like a founding father of Turning Point usa. I will never forget the first time that I met you. We were at a house party. Dan Crenshaw was there and he took his eyeball out. Do you remember that?
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A
I don't. I think I blacked it out, but I do, I think I remember the, the event that you're talking about.
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B
Yeah. So that was the first time I ever met you and. And so you've been around since, you know, before I was.
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A
Yeah.
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B
You know Charlie better than probably anyone else in this company. You and Mikey McCoy, I would say were the very closest to him. What was his very last week like? Like, what was he talking about? What was he doing?
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A
He was traveling abroad. He was in Seoul, South Korea and he was in Tokyo and then he came back to Phoenix and he did the show on Monday, Tuesday and then I guest hosted the show on Wednesday for him. And then it happened. It's interesting. I posted on X a video that was taken kind of, you know that, that port portal where you Enter the stage from kind of behind the stage. So Charlie was doing a lot. A big event in Korea was about two weeks ago, and he got done with his speech. And the event organizers came onto the speech and they asked them to come forward and to sing and pray over Charlie. And it's a beautiful video because they just start singing, how great is our God. How great is our God. Sing with me. How great is our God. And you can see Charlie's head. He bows it and he puts his hand on his heart and he just sits there and he absorbs it. And I wasn't with the team when they traveled. I've got three little kids. Charlie was always very good about trying to insulate me from having to travel too much. Right. Because we could have just been traveling nonstop. And so he's just sitting there like this and you can hear them shouting and praying for him. Koreans are really amazing prayer warriors, actually. And when he got off stage, Mikey told me that he was like misty eyed. He was really emotional. It really hit him. And I just think that's so beautiful because he spent this time in these foreign countries. And I remember kind of going, why are you going away? You know, what's the? You know, what's the. But it was after the election year, he was trying to carve out some of these international trips that have been. The requests have been piling up. So we went to London. Right. Earlier in the year and then.
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B
And we have a turning point uk.
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A
Yeah. Like, yeah, they're pretty independently operating, but yeah, they're connected to Charlie. And I remember the team that started that and it's kind of transitioned, but they've been mourning and honoring Charlie as well in some amazing ways. But one of the things that I love about that last trip to Asia is he was still extraordinarily famous in Asia, but he woke up really early in the morning one day and he just got to go for a walk. And he was. He's a walker. He.
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B
Oh, my gosh, he's a pacer.
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A
He paces. Well, his pace that he keeps up when he walks because he had these big, tall, long legs. And so it was hard to keep up with him when you're walking. But he just loved walking. He loved it. He used to run a ton. So when I first started working with Charlie, he was running like 10 miles a day. I'm not even kidding. And he eventually couldn't do that because he hurt his back from all the plane flights. And his back was a. Was a constant problem for him. So he just Was like, okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna walk. And he walked all around Seoul just by himself and adventured and explored. And that was. If you get into the day to day real life of Charlie, he just didn't have that kind of an experience being alone much.
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B
Yeah, I was gonna say that's really.
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A
Interesting because he had to be surrounded by security or he had his team or the staff, and so he just loved it. And he got to do that. And he kept sending us like selfie videos from the route he was taking, how he's exploring the city. And he did a couple other walks with his team, but then he went to Tokyo. And I think this is really telling of Charlie. He was talking to a non Christian audience. The Koreans are really Christian. The Japanese are not. And it was very important to him as he was preparing his remarks, that he shared the gospel. And so there was a whole lot of thought that went into how to do it appropriately, how to do it respectfully, but to do it. And so he did that. And then he got home from that trip and all I heard about was how excited he was to start the tour. He was so pumped. And it was interesting because anything that was in the news that was contentious or that there was infighting, he was excited because he was going to. He knew he was going to get those questions and he was going to. A lot of those clips go viral, and it was going to be an opportunity for him to sort of help steady the ship and bring the movement together and articulate what he. He thought was the best way forward.
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B
And what was that?
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A
It just depended on the question. It could be the Israel question, it could be the Epstein thing. It could be anything. That was kind of hard. Foreign policy.
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B
One of our last conversations, he brought that up. He said, alex, I'm really worried. Like, this is really serious, isn't it? The. The infighting and the splitting of the movement, like this is really a problem. And I said, yeah, but then, like, you know, I don't know, one of us got pulled away or whatever. We didn't. We literally only said that. So I didn't get to hear more of his thoughts on that. But what was he telling behind the scenes?
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A
It's interesting because there's been a lot of people who don't know what they're talking about saying a lot of things about this issue. And, you know, on the one hand, I love it because you've got the pro Israel side claiming him and you've got the anti Israel side claiming him now, which is a posthumous thing, but I think. I think that's interesting. You got the Catholics claiming him and the evangelicals claiming him.
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B
And was he becoming Catholic?
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A
No, but he really loved Catholic Mass. He loved the ritual of it. He loved the beauty of old Catholic churches and the stained glass.
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B
And him and Erica would go sometimes.
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A
Yeah, well, Erica's a cradle Catholic, but she ended up kind of like me. I grew up Catholic and first communion and went to Catholic high school. But then I ended up becoming a Christian in college through a Protestant church through a non denominational kind of more experience. It's actually Presbyterian, and then it was kind of non. Non denominational and. And I think Erica kind of follows that same path.
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B
She and I share that also, by the way. I just want to draw attention to. She's posted a photo of her and Charlie and the kids in mass before. And somebody in the comment section said, oh, are you guys converting? And she said, no, we just like attending sometimes. So she herself had said no.
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A
Yeah. And I think Charlie, one. One of the things Charlie really hated worshiping in like a gym, you know, or some sort of kind of blank space that you turn into church. I don't. There's no problem. He didn't have a problem with the act of that. He just didn't prefer it. And he loved, again, the ritual, the ancient feel of a Catholic mass and the fact that everybody around the world that was worshiping is Catholic. He loved. He loved that. So he had some really big theological hang ups with that. You can go check the videos out. Him debating with Michael Knowles, you know, in good fun. I mean, they were dear friends, but they loved kind of debating the whole Protestant versus Catholic thing.
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B
So. So tensions were rising in the movement. This is not news to anybody. If you are participating in the movement, you see it with your own eyes. You see it on X. If you live online like we do. And Charlie was aware of it.
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A
Oh, yeah.
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B
I will say, as far as the rumors go for. For donor pressures and all of that, and you can tell me if I'm wrong internally, what I noticed was, yes, he was getting pressure about having Tucker speak. There were people angry that we were allowing Tucker to speak. He wanted to double down and said, I don't care that people are mad. I have tons of different ideologies on this stage. Religions, viewpoints within the conservative movement. Everybody's welcome. I want everybody to have a chance to share their ideas. And that's the only pressure I know of as far as donor pressure that he ever received recently.
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A
Couple things that it's worth clarifying, you know, and you asked me this earlier, so let me make sure I'd say it. Charlie. Charlie's position on Israel was very clear. I like them more than I like Hamas. I just wish I was free to criticize Israel and not be labeled an anti Semite because I can criticize my own government and not be called anti American.
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B
Right.
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A
But why do I have more freedom to do that and not criticize a foreign government? And he was really upset that there was this sort of clampdown on the freedom of expression, the freedom of ideas, free speech when it came to a foreign government. And I will say this, he felt like he had earned the right as a friend of the Jewish people over the years and all of the things that he had done. He felt like his bona fides in that respect were unassailable and that he should have the freedom to say, hey, it's time to end the war. Hey, it's time to stop the killing. But, you know, when you. With Tucker, for example. Yeah, I mean, we took some pushback. We lost some donors. And what's interesting is it wasn't necessarily Jewish donors, although there was. That's a misconception about Turning Point's funding base, by the way, is, you know, it's not a whole lot of Jewish donors. It's just not. We never. You know, there was always. I saw the comments online, like, oh, the Jewish shekels or something. Like, I mean, it's all this gross stuff. It just wasn't true, and it isn't true. But we did lose, you know, one in particular towards the end. That was frustrating. There's this great clip when we were in Myrtle beach and you got asked if, you know, from somebody in the audience if he was going to debate Candace or disavow Tucker. And Charlie's answer, I thought was amazing. I remember he came off stage, he was like, do you like that one?
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B
He would always ask that for reassurance.
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A
Yeah, he always loved, like, did you see that? Yeah. Do I look good?
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B
Was that a good clip? Do you think that'll go viral?
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A
Yeah. And I remember saying, like, yeah, I thought it was amazing. It was morally, so crystal clear. And he basically said, I don't appreciate being morally blackmailed. And, you know, and every time people would say that to him, he would dig his heels in. It's like, well, maybe Tucker's gonna give two speeches now at Amfest.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Or maybe I'll invite so and so.
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B
That was one thing, like, Charlie and I I relate to him so much is that him and I both do that where we don't like being told what to do.
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A
Oh, I've noticed that before, by the way.
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B
Yeah, I know. Yeah. Andrew. I'm like, oh, there's so many things that we could talk about. How many times Andrew and Charlie have had to put out fires for me that I've started. But, like, yeah, when I'm told I. I can't do something, it's like, well, I'm gonna do it even harder then. That's just my personality. Charlie is very.
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A
I think that's the key. It's like Charlie was a friend of the Jewish people and a friend of Israel. Did he have opinions about the prosecution of the war? About. He thought their PR was abysmal, Thought they were doing more harm than good in many ways for their own cause. So all of those things were true. And he was upset that he couldn't express those things freely without all of this pressure coming down on the organization. He has a lot of great Jewish friends and, you know, and some people that maybe some not so good ones. Right. But I think there's just. It's just a nuanced thing.
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B
Was Charlie offered $150 million from Israel?
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A
As far as I know, no.
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B
I had never heard anything like that. Everyone I've asked has said the same thing.
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A
And by the way, just for what it's worth, it doesn't matter the amount that would have been coming down. We would have said no, because there's.
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B
Evidence that that is true.
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A
Turning Point does not. Charlie would not accept foreign money.
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B
Exactly.
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A
We only took American money. There was money sent to us, like, practically, and multiple instances where they're trying to cram it down our. Our bank account, and we said no. We canceled, like, money, wires and things.
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B
No foreign money. And also no handouts from the government. During the pandemic, he refused to do mass layoffs that everybody else in the country was doing. Said no to the. To the. Whatever that check was. What was that that they were handing out? Stimulus check.
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A
Yeah, the PPE loans. Right. I always get PPP and PPE mixed up, but.
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B
Yeah, but it was a big. It was a good amount of money that at the time, we could have used.
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A
Yeah.
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B
He put out a company statement saying, you know, this was tempting for sure, but we're gon. I mean, he was very principled in that way.
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He was extremely principled, especially on foreign money. I remember moments we'd be at an event and some foreign people would come up and demand A meeting or try and get a meeting with Charlie. And Charlie would look at me and go, deal with them. Get rid of them. I don't want to talk to him. So I often had the job of.
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B
Being the bad guy.
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A
Being the bad guy and saying, I'm so sorry. Charlie's schedule's busy and it's unfortunate, you know, we just can't fit you in. Oh, well, here's my card. Please let's. You know. And I mean, on one occasion when that happened a couple years later, those people got. We saw him in the news and they got arrested. And he texted me. He's like, see, I knew it. I knew it. My. My spidey sense could feel it. And Charlie did have a spidey sense for who he could trust and who he couldn't trust. And, you know, in this business, there's a lot of shady people that will try and insinuate themselves into your circle, into your orbit. And you have to be as wide as a serpent and as gentle as a dove. And you have to be able to really assess people's motives and cross check things. And Charlie was the best at that.
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B
Have you guys had a conversation, you know, on the board and just C level executives of the company? Have you guys talked to Eric about that? Just like looking out for opportunists that are going to be circling around her at this point.
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A
I don't think I need to tell Erica that. Erica is very shrewd. She's very smart, she's very sharp. There's a great story. I can't really tell you who this was, but it was a very important person. And it happened within hours of the news. And the call goes in, she takes it because it was a very important person. And the question was to her, okay, so just as a starting point, like, what do you know? And I think it was in reference to, like, Charlie's world, his work, his mission, like, how much do you, like, know about what he was doing? Like, what. What was he doing? But it was inferred. It was like, so what do you know? And she was like, I know everything. And I was like, that's amazing, because she did. Because Charlie would go home. And if you knew Charlie, I mean, a lot of influencers, a lot of people in the space, they go out and they party. They. They do that. Charlie did not. He went. He went straight home to Erica. If she was traveling with him. He went straight home to her very early and hung out with her. And they talked and they talked and he would bounce ideas off of her. And she really was this support to him. And the world is about to discover that Erica is one of the most exceptional and amazing women you're ever going to meet. Or as Blake says from the Charlie Kirk show side, Blake goes, what a woman.
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B
I love Blake.
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A
The world's gonna find out that Erica is, in fact, what a woman. What's amazing about Erica is that she was so happy to defer to headship, to the leadership of Charlie Kirk in the household at Turning Point usa. But there that was. And to empower him and be like this support structure for him and to provide a steadiness. And she thrived in that role. But that is not to say that she is not capable of leadership. In fact, I heard you mention kind of that call that she had with the staff, and she is. It's very feminine. It's a change in that sense because she's a woman. It's very feminine. It's a different approach, it's a different tone, but it's almost like just as efficient and just as on point and just as focused and just as strong. And so it's the feminine version of it. It's like so many of us who have been around Charlie for as long as we have, he has. It's almost like you can't help but absorb his energy and absorb his rhythms. And I noticed this, too, because I spent so many years doing Charlie's media hits and setting them up for him and prepping him and doing talking points and. And going through, you know, how. How we're going to present the arguments. And then here I am. You know, it was the Monday JD Hosted the show from the White House, and I had five or six media hits with all the networks lined up. You know, they all wanted to find out more. You know, hugest, biggest story in the world. And so I end up going and doing all these hits from pebble beach right in the White House, where they have all the media tents set up. And so all of a sudden, I find myself in this real place where I'm the one now doing the media hits about the man that I used to do the. Do that job to, like, set him up for those media hits. And I'm. I'm having this almost outer body experience because I. I start sort of, you know, not barking orders, but in the sense that when you're in that seat and you're like, hey, can I get this? Yeah. Hey, did you check on this? And I find myself. I was doing what Charlie would do.
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B
Yep.
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A
I caught myself I was like, whoa. Like, these lessons went in deep, and I didn't even realize it. And when the. When your back's against the wall and you're drinking through a fire hose and you can barely keep up, all of a sudden, the lessons. It's kind of like a soldier. You train for the war, and then when the war happens, like, your training will kick in. It was like my training kicked in. And the training was Charlie Kirk. If that's true for me, imagine being Erica Kirk, that they put their heads down on the pillow next to each other, they talked before going to bed every night and in the morning, and they were constantly in contact. And so she knows everything. She knows who to trust, who not to. She knows who to embrace. She knows who's going to be the allies in the fights ahead. And you can rest assured that Erica Kirk is up to the task.
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B
So one thing that I was so excited about, and I just am so upset that I didn't get a chance to say thank you or I'm so excited myself to him was right before he died, it was announced that we were going to be giving our female employees, at Turning Point, six months paid maternity leave. Now, this is. Is unbelievable. I mean, progressive organizations are not doing that. That's huge. And, you know, that was something that they tried to use against him on the left. Like, you're probably so, you know, misogynistic, and you hate women and all of this. And, I mean, we have more, I believe, still. Right. More female directors at Turning Point than male.
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A
We just love women more than they do, so we want to, like, treat them better, and we want to make sure that we love families more than they do. There's no question.
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B
So did Erica have influence on that decision before he died?
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A
Thousand percent.
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B
Do you think that we're gonna see even some more really exciting announcements as far as, like, work, family, balance that Erica will want to institute here?
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A
Not going to get ahead of Erica. So I don't know, but I'm sure she would love to hear your opinions on that, Alex. And you can. You can.
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B
My opinion. I. I had said we should be doing longer maternity leave, and I'd said that for a few years, and I think at the time, that was, like, really controversial. So everybody was like, do not say that. That's a. That would cost us a fortune. And I'm like, okay, but it goes with our values. So when he finally said that, I was like, no way. Because I had been thinking that.
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A
But, yeah, no, Charlie, like, I mean, was very, very much about putting his money where his mouth is and putting his values on full display so that, so that we knew that we weren't hiding behind something. We wanted to be proud about that. And as Erica said, Charlie, if he was ever elected, you know, president, you know, if he was ever in charge of the world, his job, he was gonna focus on rebuilding the American family. I mean, that was absolutely center and core for Charlie as far as a passion we, we talked about. And by the way, I mean, you know this. How many times did he get like these nasty headlines when he would just defend the nuclear family and the traditional values of a family? Because, and, and I realize this so much now that Charlie was essentially just a modern day prophet. Not, not in the sort of like fortune telling sense, but in the biblical sense of like, here's God's instrument. He goes into a wayward place and he speaks truth to them and calls them to repent. And then, then what happens when that happens? When you call a people to repent? Some accept it and they love you for it, and some reject it and they hate you for it. And that was Charlie Kirk. That was Charlie Kirk's. That's the central, like, dynamic of his entire, and I will call it a ministry. Yes, it was a mission. Yes, he was an activist, but it was a ministry was that he would go into a place, whether it was a college campus or a country like London. And that's what he was doing in London. I realize this now. He was calling London to repent. He was calling England to remember itself and to come back to your greatness, repent and be saved. And in that sense, like literally save your civilization because you need to find who you are again, identity. And so Charlie did that when he went to Asia. It was the same thing. And he would do it on these college campuses. He would speak about issues like family formation and getting married. And he would speak into the cultural lie so directly, like an icebreaker breaking through the water. And somebody had to be that icebreaker. Somebody had to go forward so the ships behind could, could do it. And that was Charlie's mission. He would speak so boldly and clearly to confront the cultural lie so that other people could come behind him. And one of the main issues he would do that on is getting married, the Mrs. Degree or whatever it was. And people would get so offended. And yet when you get past that level of offense, usually by the mainstream media, there was millions of kids listening online going like, you know what? That actually makes sense.
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B
It makes sense.
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A
And by the way, I Secretly want that.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I can't say it out loud, but Charlie, did.
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B
Does Erica have full confidence that we got the shooter, the right shooter?
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A
I think so. And I also think, you know, I think we're waiting to see if there's more details that will follow. Did who knew in advance, who radicalized them, was there a funding network? All of that stuff I think is fair and open ended questions that we can keep asking, and we should, but I have every confidence that Cash and Dan at the FBI and the whole DOJ are behind this. And the cooperation with local law enforcement has been tremendous. And so, yeah, I'm very aware that there are other theories of the case. And I would just say, listen, we have to open every door, pursue every lead, and be open to being surprised. That being said, there's a pretty high level of confidence that this is the truth and that they got the guy. And now we need to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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B
How do you think this would have potentially played out differently if we would have had a Harris administration instead of a Trump?
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A
Oh, gosh, you know, it would have been an utter disaster. Somebody said to me this morning, actually, like, how fortunate we are that if this was gonna happen. Yep, I said the same, that we have this administration in place, the administration that Charlie helped get elected and then obviously flew to Mar a Lago within 72 hours of the election to help with the transition. So Charlie basically, you know, helped his, you know, helped hand select some of the people that are now overseeing the investigation and ensuring that justice is done.
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B
As we wrap, there's just a couple things I want to hit.
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A
Oh, by the way, very good doing this without questions.
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B
Thank you.
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A
You're doing well.
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B
I love to be super prepared and write out all my questions for my guests. And with Andrew, I know him so well, and, you know, I'm just asking questions that have been in my mind for the last week that we've been just grieving and dealing with this. So I was like, I'm just gonna let it roll.
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A
You're doing great. Thanks. I always wanted Alex to be a lot less rigid.
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B
You think I'm rigid and everyone else that knows me knows I'm a spaz.
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A
When we first started working with Al, we'd book her on Fox or something. She'd be like, but wait, what are the questions? They have the exact. I'm like, no, they're not going to give me the exact questions. Alex, you have to be a human and hear what they say and then think about it, and then maybe Respond. I was scared, and she was, you know, I was just trying to, like, dumb it down for her, but she ended up. I mean, obviously you've had such amazing success, and Charlie was so proud of you, and so you've taken any advice I could have given you.
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B
And what were some of the things about me that aggravated Charlie the most or gave him the most trouble?
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A
You just, like, sometimes don't think the consequences through of your wild statements. Sometimes. So, like, what did you ask? So and so, like, oh, okay. How did you work? Oh, you worded it that way. Okay, that was good. What did you tweet? Did you run that by anybody? No. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. Free speech. No, totally. Yeah. Yeah, well. And we don't censor you. Like, it's so funny. You know, it's. It's. It's like most of our job is more reactive when you don't see all.
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B
The messes, it's asking for forgiveness.
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A
Yeah. And it's like, we don't. We don't believe in. In that control. We think, like, we hire good people and good people are going to do good things.
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B
No, there was only. And I said this in my solo episode that came out yesterday. There's only one time in my six years of working here. And it. And I don't think it was Charlie. I think it was other management at. I had an.
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A
By me.
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B
I don't even think it was you.
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A
No, it wasn't.
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B
It was other management. And I had a guest coming on who kind of talked negatively about some people that happen to be donors. And so it was like, hey, we really are thinking that maybe you shouldn't put this episode out. And I wrote like a. The one and only time I threatened to quit ever working here. It was like my most strongly worded letter just saying, if I am expected to go on campuses and defend free speech to these students, then my free speech and my guest free speech should not be squandered within our walls of Turning Point usa. And I just said, we don't have to agree with everything that my guests say. And I have guests with different opinions, and those don't agree owners want to, you know, come out and disagree.
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A
That's me.
- [28:02]
B
So I don't think it was you, and I don't think it was Charlie. But when I said that, I think Charlie was notified. And then it was like, just let her post it. Never to be. No one ever said anything to me again. And then any other times that I said controversial things, I would always get Little messages from Charlie saying, like, keep up the good work. I support whatever you want to say. Just like, very kind like that.
- [28:17]
A
Yeah.
- [28:18]
B
Let's talk a little bit about the behind the scenes relationship of Charlie and Erica. And I mean, this is an audience of women that want all the giddy little weird details. Did they go out to eat? Did they cook at home? Who was messy, who was clean? You know, what were their little funny, like, tiffs that they would have things like that.
- [28:35]
A
Traveling them with them was always very telling because they had this way of, you know, Charlie never raised his voice to her, but they might have a disagreement about what was the right, you know, next few steps in the travel plan. And, like, should we pick you up here and do this? And then Erica always kind of would go, you know, she kind of has that no baby like, thing where, you know, I feel even weird saying, because I don't use the B word. And then he would say back, like, yes, yes, yes, sweetie, or something. And they were always, like, so nice in their disagreements, but you could tell they were like, had a. They diff. They definitely had different plans about how we were gonna get the kids to the hotel and then with the dinner and then when she should meet him. And, you know, and so watching them kind of problem solve and work things out in this really sweet way with all these. These little window dressings of like I love yous in there was kind of something I.
- [29:28]
B
You look beautiful, but you are so wrong right now. Like, stuff like that.
- [29:30]
A
Yeah, kind of. Yeah. In their own way, that was the equivalent of whatever that would be for them. But that always. I'm always reminded of that. And I'm always reminded that Charlie would always drop everything. We'd be talking about something extraordinarily important. He would just be like, okay, hold on, Erica's calling, and just take it. And she was always the number one priority. And everything else would stop if she needed something. And there wasn't anything in the world that he wouldn't do for her. I mean, he would move heaven and earth to make sure Erica was taken care of and her for him. I mean, she was. She would put her life on pause to sort of support his life and his mission and his work. One of the things that struck me just thinking about it, they were just on vacation in the Northeast, you know, this summer.
- [30:18]
B
He loves Maine.
- [30:20]
A
Yeah, he loved. Yeah, he loved Maine. He loved Montana. There was certain places where he loved to vacation. And I remember thinking, like, it was basically like a week and a half they had on the schedule and they had a really cool spot to go vacation in. And. And they had planned it out, like, pretty far in advance. And then, you know, he got invited to guest host Fox and Friends. So they, in the middle of their vacation on the weekend, which would have been like the chillest time of the vacation, she was like, well, let's go to New York. Let's do it. I mean, she was totally game for it. To interrupt her family vacation for so Charlie could guest host Fox and Friends.
- [30:54]
B
And that ended up being such an incredible weekend for him. I mean, those moments of him hosting, it was fun. You got to see his really endearing, you know, fatherly side on.
- [31:06]
A
On a horse out in Manhattan.
- [31:07]
B
Like, it was so funny for Charlie to do that. And I'm so glad that they did because, I mean, and Megan Kelly brought this up. So I have to ask you. I mean, Megan says she knows for a fact that there were internal issues with Fox wanting to have Charlie on for several years.
- [31:21]
A
Let me just put that to rest. And I actually talked to Megan about this when she came into guest host Charlie show. It is true that he was on a lot and then he wasn't. And that was kind of around some comments that he had made in and around the Tucker parting of ways. Here's the thing. They have been so supportive and people, I don't know what I'm at liberty to say and what I'm not, but. But Fox really wanted to fully embrace Charlie. They wanted him to come host the Sunday, the weekend Fox and Friends again. They wanted maybe put him on the 5 a couple of times. They wanted to maybe talk about documentaries and things that were close to Charlie's heart. And Charlie was excited to do that. And very much in life, Charlie was fully appreciated, embraced by. By Fox and they understood his talent. And there's actually a really funny story. So Charlie found himself at a very nondescript out in the middle of the boonies kind of place with a couple of very prominent Fox hosts.
- [32:36]
B
Recently or a long time?
- [32:37]
A
Very recently.
- [32:37]
B
Okay.
- [32:39]
A
It was over the summer sometime. I think it was like June or something. I kept trying to tell people. I was like, Charlie has become like, like super famous. Like, super, super famous. Like, you can't take him anywhere.
- [32:52]
B
Yeah, it totally changed in the last, like, year and a half, two years.
- [32:55]
A
Yeah. And. And a lot of that was like tick tock and some other things. But he became like, super famous and he finds himself at this bar restaurant, and they're kind of out. They tried to get it into the back of this place, and people notice them. And again, this is the middle of nowhere, middle of the boonies, and we're talking top talent. Like, you should know who these people are. In fact, you would know who they are, of course.
- [33:20]
B
Yeah.
- [33:21]
A
And so they're sitting there, and then people start coming up for selfies. And apparently about this happened about a hundred times over the course of about an hour and a half, two hours. And I don't know if they ever got asked for questions as well, but it was basically all for Charlie. So you get, like, these two top talent at Fox and Charlie Kirk, and they. And on more than a couple of occasions, probably about half the other people were asked. These two anchors were asked to take the picture of Charlie with the people coming up. So you imagine these very well known.
- [33:55]
B
I'm sure that was humble.
- [33:56]
A
Yes. If so, right. And I think Fox, you know, probably. And by the way, Fox had already sort of fully embraced him at this point, but I think those little stories must have got back and. And Charlie, you know, was extraordinarily popular with we the people and the grassroots and the. The. And. And, you know, so it's. It's an amazing thing. But, yeah, I mean, the. The vibes were good at Fox.
- [34:18]
B
How much did Charlie believe in Maha?
- [34:22]
A
Charlie was like, Mr. Maha. He, you know, I don't know what percentage of your audience is Christian, but I would just say I look at so much now of Charlie's decision making as, like, these weird little Holy spirit nuggets and these little clues. Charlie obviously didn't know he was gonna die so young, but he had so much discipline that he got the most out of his body that was physically possible. In the years that he had, it was almost like God put this little wiring in his brain because he knew that he had this huge larger purpose for him. And so he disciplined himself. He was obsessed with biohacking. Like, how can I get more energy? How can I sleep deeper? And it's really amazing, actually. And I don't. I don't. I think this is okay. But, you know, there was these reports after it happened that they found a pulse.
- [35:22]
B
Yeah. And Erica told me that when she. So I was. We were. There was a select group of us when Erica gave her first statement to the media that were there in the same room. And she came out and she hugged all of us and talked to each one of us. And she said that. She said, you know, his heart kept beating even when his, like, spine and brain were severed or whatever. And I said it was Beating for you. He was holding on for you and your kids, and you know it well.
- [35:49]
A
And that's. That's a beautiful. Yeah. Thought. And I think there's that, which is very true. And then there's. There's the medical angle. And I talked to the doctors. It was that his heart was strong. Like, it was so strong. And he. That. That even sort of. Yeah. After this traumatic thing that had just happened to his body, that his heart still beat. I mean, he was. People need to know that. It was instant. He didn't feel a thing. He didn't even. He didn't even know it. He blinked and he was in heaven. That's, I think, the truth. It was a devastating wound.
- [36:27]
B
Why did our team start taking down cameras immediately? Was it just in shock and just thinking, like, this is what we do, and just not thinking it's a crime scene?
- [36:35]
A
I think massive shock. I think there's been some stories about the SD cards or whatever that was, because even in the shock, there was an understanding that the proximity of those cameras were, A, gonna be evidence, and they wanted to make sure they didn't get stolen out of the cameras. But B, they didn't want anybody to run in. I mean, there was those videos of the kid running and grabbing the hats.
- [37:02]
B
Yeah.
- [37:03]
A
So there was an understanding. I mean, I talked to the team on that, and they said, because we know people can be evil.
- [37:10]
B
Yeah.
- [37:10]
A
And they grabbed the SD card so that nobody could get that, so that.
- [37:13]
B
Law enforcement could get it.
- [37:14]
A
Did I answer your Maha question sufficiently? Yeah. Okay. He loved Maha. Well, he loved Maha Moms, too. He thought that Maha was the most underappreciated and the most critical of the coalition of Trump's 2024 coalition. And he wanted to grow it. And he had a real vision for that. And he. I think that's why he was always like, run, Alex, run. Like, do your thing. Because obviously, he couldn't speak to the women like you could speak to the women, but he just loved. He loves Bobby Kennedy. Loved Bobby Kennedy and really respected him. By the way, there's this fun interview that RFK did with Charlie in. I think it was December of 2023. RFK was here in Phoenix.
- [37:53]
B
Okay.
- [37:54]
A
And they did that. They did that interview, and Charlie, like, challenged him, and RFK got a little mad at him for one of the questions. And. And I remember Charlie looked at me and he goes, bobby, you know, I respect you, but I gotta ask these questions. And I remember, you know, going like, good for you, Charlie. Yeah. Asking the hard questions. But, like, even in a moment of tension, Charlie was like, you know, I respect the heck out of you. Like, let me ask the questions I have to ask.
- [38:15]
B
That's a good interviewer.
- [38:17]
A
It was a good. It was a good interaction. And then obviously we got to host the. When he endorsed him. And that was like your favorite event of all time in here in Phoenix as well. Massive, massive event in one of my favorite in the history of Turning point, actually.
- [38:31]
B
Oh, 100%.
- [38:32]
A
Yeah. But. But, like, he was so excited because he saw the power of it and loved that we were taking on this thing that he had so much passion for personally.
- [38:41]
B
So he wouldn't want us to stop talking about this, because I think right now, not at all. I mean, I struggle with that. I'm like, man, everybody, right now, more. More is just like, wanting to talk politics because, you know, this is. This is important. And I do. I love talking politics.
- [38:52]
A
Charlie was bored with politics, if you want to know the truth. Charlie was bored by it. He knew he had to because politics is so important. Cannot tell you how many times I tried to book congress people on the show, and he'd be like, I don't want to talk to them.
- [39:05]
B
He was excited by Maha.
- [39:06]
A
He was excited by ideas and Maha and things that, like, he was actually interested in.
- [39:11]
B
Yeah.
- [39:11]
A
And, you know, he was not a policy wonk. Charlie was not a policy wonk. He didn't care about the. You know, he just. He cared about big ideas and truth, and he believed that Maha is the truth.
- [39:24]
B
What happens now with Charlie's tours?
- [39:26]
A
They're going to continue, obviously. We did Knowles yesterday, and that's amazing. And we're going to keep. We have some. Knowles was previously booked. He was always supposed to be at that event. I think the prove me wrongs are going to go away for now. There's just too many questions about security. But the evening events, which you can secure the. The venue much, much more easily inside, and those are going to keep going. And we have special guests out the ying yang for that. We have Megyn Kelly, Governor Youngkin. We have Governor Gianforte, Vivek Ramaswamy. We are working on another really big person that I can't confirm yet, but another really big person, and I think it's safe to say that. And we got Glenn Beck. I'm trying to think. I don't want to leave anybody off, but we've got some big names and we're not going to pull back. We're not pulling back. We're actually moving forward in Earnest. And I think it's safe to say that you will see Erica Kirk, you know, at least one or two stops.
- [40:33]
B
Wow. Wow. That shows a lot of strength and says a lot about her character and her mindset with all this, I think. What happens to the Charlie Kirk Show?
- [40:41]
A
Well, we're going to keep doing guests in studio and bringing like the family together. I think that's been really cathartic for everybody. You know, week one was jd, the Daily Wire guys. We had Glenn Beck, Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson. And you know, we've got Benny Johnson and we've got, by the way, we have a great team of just that are here in our thoughtcrime crew. You know, Blake and Tyler and Cliff Maloney, who was on a lot during the run up to the 2020. I think he's gonna be kind of hanging in there with us. And so it's a little tbd, but we're working it out and maybe we do like a, you know, Tuesdays with Erica or something and she can, she can be a part of that. But it's. The vision's coming together, it's taking shape. And obviously with you know, Charlie being such, you know, a world class talent, there's no way to fully ever even come close to replacing that. And so, yeah, it's a daunting task. But I have this weird piece in my heart because you kind of mentioned the DNA of Charlie, the fingerprints of Charlie, how we've all absorbed it. And in some ways, the people closest to that show need to be the people closest to that show moving forward because we saw the way he did things and we saw the way he wanted things done and we saw what he was passionate about. I remember I tried to get guest hosts before, when we first started when he couldn't make a show and they just didn't have the DNA. They didn't know how to keep the spirit of the show alive. And so whatever form it takes, I think it has to have his DNA in it. It has to have his spirit and his magic in it. And I think that has to be driven by the people that did the show when he was doing it.
- [42:34]
B
Every day I ask every guest this question at the end of my episodes. If you could offer one remedy to heal a sick culture, physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would that remedy be?
- [42:45]
A
You know, the way I'll answer this. So yes, the answer is give your life to Jesus, repent and be saved. And I know that sounds like kind of fire and brimstone y age, but like it's literally that simple. But what does repent mean? It means it's not just saying sorry. It's like turning around. So the thing that. When I say, like, you should repent, like, repent, you know what it is, that whatever that thing is, like, instantly there will be something that comes into your head and you'll be like, I know the thing that I'm really like, I know I have to stop that. Is the thing that you need to spend all your time and heart energy, like, quiet time, figure out how you're going to stop that. Is it an addiction? Is it a lie you're telling? Is it something you're holding on to? Is it wealthy that you refuse to let go? Is it a comfort? Is it an expectation for the future of your life? And I will just tell you because when this happened, I remember I got the news, my wife came in, and I looked at her and I said, everything just changed. And I remember thinking I didn't want it to change. Not only was I tragically devastated that one of my best friends in the whole wide world, my brother, my business partner, the leader of Turning Point, and this icon of our culture, had just been assassinated in cold blood. All those things are going through your head. But I had also to confront the fact that all of my little comforts had just evaporated. All of the things that I thought about the future of my life had just gone out the window. And I would say that I wrestled with that quietly, alone. I didn't have enough time to think about it, but I would get up to my hotel room and just be hit by the weight of. I don't know what's coming next. And then actually it was. Ali Stuckey sent me this song by Matthew West. Just weird. I was like, the Saturday after, in my hotel room, my wife's like, you know, back with our kids, and I'm just, like, alone. And it's just. It was probably the first second I stopped for a second, and it just. I listened to this song and it just. Just started weeping. I was, like, bawling, like, ugly cry. Like, you know, talking to you ladies. You know what I'm talking about? I. This would be the right podcast to.
- [45:13]
B
Say this, to reveal this.
- [45:14]
A
Yeah, I just had this, like, ugly cry, you know, but it was. I needed to get it out. I don't. And I just repented. And I repented because I think up until that moment, I didn't feel like I could do what was going to be called of me in the days and weeks ahead. And in that moment, I repented. Because what was holding me back from feeling like I could rise to this moment and rise to this occasion was that I was not willing to let go of my flesh. And I wasn't willing to let go of my selfishness. And in that moment, I realized, like, Lord, it is all whatever you want. Like, I throw my hands up and I throw them out to youo. I'm open to youo. And I understand that I. This is not what my flesh wanted. But I don't want my flesh. I want what yout want from me. So just come, Holy Spirit, change me. Don't let me hold on to these things that I think I need, because I know that I don't. And if you bring them back to me, so be it. If you don't, so be it. Like, your will be done, not mine.
- [46:25]
B
You said that. Probably one of the best of any guests that's ever been on. I just want you to know that I love you so much. You're one of my favorite people that I've gotten to know working at Turning Point. And as sad and horrific and traumatic as this has been, I was the most excited to talk to you just because you were the closest to him. You knew him the best. I'm just so sick of some of the misconceptions and things that people are saying online. And I just was like, you're the person to just like, let's get the truth out there and his right motives and mindset before he passed away. So thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary.
- [47:01]
A
Been an honor. Thank you, Alex.
- [47:06]
B
You still have questions, friends. Leave them in the comments if they weren't answered. But I feel like we hit everything. Please leave a five star review. Tell others why they've gotta listen to Culture Apothecary. We've got one more special episode this week with somebody who knew Charlie very well, actually, since childhood. We're on a mission to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally and spiritually. Twice a week I have new guests who bring their own unique remedy to do just that. On Mondays and Thursdays, 6pm Pacific, 9pm Eastern. Although this is a special week, don't forget to subscribe to Real Alex Clark on YouTube or find me on Instagram at Real Alex Clark. Tpusamerch.com use code Alex Clark for 10 off merch. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.