Your Husband Or Son Is Watching Porn — Now What? | EZ Zwayne

Summary

Culture Apothecary with Alex Clark

Episode: Your Husband Or Son Is Watching Porn — Now What?
Guest: EZ Zwane
Date: January 23, 2026
Host: Alex Clark (Turning Point USA)

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Episode Overview

In this candid and confronting episode, Alex Clark and guest EZ Zwane—a pastor, speaker, and author—address the deeply uncomfortable but urgent reality of pornography's effect on children, marriages, and the broader culture. Focusing on practical strategies, spiritual perspectives, and parental responsibility, they unpack why porn has become a public health crisis, how it hijacks the brain and intimacy, and what families, spouses, and individuals can do to fight back.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Scope of the Pornography Crisis

• The Stats & Early Exposure

  • 94% of 11-year-olds have seen porn ([00:00], [02:20]).
  • Early exposure leads to neuroplastic changes, depression, isolation, and poor decision-making.
  • “Pornography wreaks havoc on the brain. It gets them hooked from very early age and leads to all sorts of destructive behaviors.” – EZ Zwane ([02:20])

• Porn Industry Scale

  • Industry exceeds the revenue of Netflix, Disney, and the NFL combined ([01:01], [06:38]).
  • Aggressive targeting of children and married men through pervasive media and advertising.

• Neuroscience & Mental Health

  • Massive dopamine release from porn rewires pleasure centers, leading to dissatisfaction with real intimacy ([05:51], [13:15]).
  • Direct link to sexual dysfunction in young men and increased need for more extreme content.
  • “People create these unrealistic expectations. They’re removed from real life when they’re looking at porn, and so…when they’re thrust back into real life, it just doesn’t measure up.” — EZ Zwane ([13:15])

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Addressing Addiction and Value Systems

• Is it an addiction?

  • Denial among men about porn addiction is common, but Zwane insists it has classic addictive features ([03:25]).
  • “Anything that you give yourself over to for hours…is going to get a hold on you. But pornography, because it’s related to the human function of sexuality, it takes you in an even deeper way.” — EZ Zwane ([03:38])
  • Illustrates with example: most men could stop if massively incentivized—implying it’s about values and priorities, not just impulse ([04:32]).

• Value Impacts Behavior

  • The value system needs recalibration: “Value impacts behavior. What we value will impact how we behave.” ([04:32])
  • Penny vs. $100 bill analogy for changing how we perceive the importance of purity and relationships.

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Cultural and Marital Impacts

• Dating & Marriage Considerations

  • Essential for women to ask potential partners directly about porn use ([08:28], [09:03]).
  • “The question isn’t anymore, do you look at pornography? The question is, when was the last time?” — EZ Zwane ([08:35])
  • Porn use doesn’t dissipate with marriage—often, it intensifies, undermining intimacy and trust.

• Marriage Destruction

  • Many men enter marriage hiding or minimizing their struggle, and marriages are “destroyed because of it.” ([10:15])
  • Direct advice for wives: Do not tolerate porn use—address it head-on, involve others if needed. “You’re not supposed to put up with it at all.” — EZ Zwane ([20:14])

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Parental Guidance & Prevention

• Talking to Kids

  • Begin age-appropriate conversations early, with “pre-talks” before the main discussion ([27:45]).
  • “A child’s mind is like a warehouse full of empty shelves. Whoever gets there first and stocks those shelves is going to make it harder for the next person to come unstock and restock them.” — EZ Zwane ([17:08], [54:13])
  • Proactive parental involvement: Family devotions, open conversation, parental control, public computer use ([26:02], [54:27]).

• Mistakes Parents Make

  • Failing to convey how tempting sexual sin is and the rationalizations that accompany it ([52:13]).
  • Encourage vigilance: “What lioness would give birth to her cubs in a hyena’s den?...But you let them understand their tendency to sin, the deceptiveness of sin, and the wisdom of being on your guard.” — EZ Zwane ([52:24])

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Practical Tools, Spiritual Approaches, and the "Nope Principle"

• Spiritual Framing

  • Portrays sexual sin as both personal bondage and a spiritual battle.
  • “There is a bondage breaker whose name is Jesus Christ, who can transform my life…” — EZ Zwane ([35:56])
  • Redefines “addiction” as “bondage” to emphasize personal responsibility and hope for liberation.

• The “Nope Principle” ([37:00])

  • Not One Peak Even: A commitment to avoid even a single lustful look, rooted in what and whom one loves most.
  • “I love my Lord, my lady, my lineage, His lambs, the lost — Nope, not one peak even.”
  • Applies to all areas of self-control, from sexual purity to food and gambling ([42:55]).

• Six C’s to Succeed

  • A “battle plan” for purity—creation, cognition, coition, etc.—with memorable, biblically-rooted statements to redirect thought during moments of temptation ([40:11], [41:00]).

• Accountability & Isolation

  • Isolation “is deadly,” leading men to relapse and lose perspective.
  • Real accountability involves trust, time, transparency, and teachability ([45:15]).
  • “You do end up in the echo chamber…You don’t have anyone who holds you accountable, asks you the hard questions, prays for you, encourages you.” — EZ Zwane ([45:15])

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Motivation, Shame, and the Church’s Role

• Empowering vs. Shaming

  • Shame is “appropriate” if it leads to repentance and freedom ([57:38]).
  • True motivation comes from understanding sexual sin as “sin against the cross”—motivated by Christ’s sacrifice ([50:32]).
  • “When we reconnect with the value of the cross and that our sin cost Christ his life… it becomes sobering.” — EZ Zwane ([50:32])

• Church’s Responsibility

  • The church must stop pretending secrecy is the answer; address sexual sin openly but gracefully ([59:40]).
  • Tailored resources and group discussions using works like "Fight Like a Man" help break the silence ([60:56]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Value:
  “Value impacts behavior. What we value will impact how we behave.” — EZ Zwane ([04:32])

• On Being Proactive Parents:
  “Your kids need to be raised by design, not by default.” — EZ Zwane ([54:27])

• On the Real Threat:
  “We are at war… Men and kids today have this peacetime mentality when we’re smack dab in the middle of war and nothing’s being done.” — EZ Zwane ([06:49])

• On Addressing Men’s Excuses:
  “It’s not that they can’t, it’s that they won’t. And something needs to radically change.” — EZ Zwane ([11:22])

• On Spiritual Warfare:
  “If you’re not worshiping the true God, you’re going to find another idol. And for many people, it’s the idol of pornography and sexual sin.” — EZ Zwane ([36:22])

• On Empathy:
  “Empathy is a must and should be natural. …Maybe that has been me.” — EZ Zwane ([33:46])

• On the Power of the Cross:
  “We’re doing it, in fact, in the shadow of the cross. We’re sitting at the foot of the cross indulging in that sexual sin, and in essence saying what Jesus did meant nothing to me.” — EZ Zwane ([50:32])

• On Family Vision:
  “To gladly and passionately glorify God in every thought, affection, word, and deed, while constantly enjoying him as our greatest pleasure and most precious treasure.” — EZ Zwane ([56:39])

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Timestamps for Key Topics

• Effect on Children’s Brains: [00:00], [02:20]
• Addiction, Value, & Accountability: [03:38], [04:32], [45:15]
• Effects on Sexual Health / Marriage: [05:51], [13:15], [10:15]
• Industry Scale / Cultural Penetration: [06:38]
• Dating & Communication Advice: [08:28], [09:03], [10:53]
• Proactive Parenting & Prevention: [25:32], [26:02], [27:45], [54:13]
• Nope Principle Explained: [37:00]
• Shame, Repentance, Empowerment: [57:38]
• Church’s Role & Solutions: [59:40]
• Book / Resources: [60:56]

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is candid, empathetic, and urgent, blending practical advice with deep conviction. Both host and guest stress openness, accountability, and taking an active rather than passive stance—whether as parents, spouses, individuals, or church communities.

Final Remedy

• EZ Zwane’s remedy for culture:
  “It would be the emphasis on who made you, why he made you and why he put you here. When all those questions are answered, you'll find that you'll have the remedy to every area of life.” ([62:39])

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For further resources:

• Book: "Fight Like a Man" by EZ Zwane (Amazon)
• Social: @emilzwain / “Living Waters”

This summary skips all ad reads and non-content segments to capture the most relevant, actionable material and timeless takeaways from the heart of the discussion.

Transcript

[Alex Clark]

94% of 11 year olds have seen porn. What is happening to their brains before they even get to middle school?

[EZ Zwane]

Destruction, depression, isolation, inability to make decisions. Porn isn't always the issue. Men have pornographic machines in their brains. We've got memory, we've got imagination. This is really the tragedy is that there are a lot of men who have this deception in their minds that masturbation's okay. I can't tell you how many parents I've talked to and I've said, hey, you know, what kind of filters do you have on on your computers? What kind of filters do you have in your kids phones? And they're just kind of like, what do you mean filters?

[Alex Clark]

What are you supposed to do when you catch your little boy watching porn or find it on your husband's phone? Pretend it's normal? Blame hormones? Or finally confront the digital drug that's rewiring your family. Today we're exposing how porn is hijacking kids brains before middle school and killing real intimacy in marriages. I'm joined by EZ Zwane, pastor, speaker and cultural commentator who helps men break free from sexual bondage and rebuild their lives, their relationships and spiritual health. We talk about why the porn industry is bigger than Netflix, Disney and the NFL combined. How it targets children and married men, what isolation is doing to families, and what parents and spouses can actually do to protect their homes and restore trust. This conversation is uncomfortable, but ignoring it will cost your family everything. If you want to watch this episode, you can by subscribing to Real Alex Clark on YouTube or Culture Apothecary on Spotify. If you're new here, we release two episodes a week where we bring on experts doing their best to heal a sick culture physically, emotionally or spiritually. If you're a first time listener or longtime listener, please pause. Leave a five star review before we get started. Let us know why you love the show. Please welcome pastor and author E. Z wayne to Culture Apothecary. 94% of 11 year olds have seen porn. What is happening to their brains before they even get to middle school?

[EZ Zwane]

Destruction. A lot of people don't realize the effects on the neuroplasticity in the brain from looking at porn. You know, we're living in an age, Alex, where people, because of how prevalent pornography is, they have this mindset and understanding that it's not that harmful. So it creates this deception. But when you look at what happens, especially with young kids, in terms of depression, isolation, inability to make decisions, pornography wreaks havoc on the brain. It gets them hooked from very early age and leads to all sorts of destructive behaviors.

[Alex Clark]

Is it true that porn can literally shrink your capacity to have a sexual desire for your future spouse?

[EZ Zwane]

Oh, absolutely. In fact, you know, when you look at what's happened in Japan, people in Japan don't even want to get married anymore. They don't want to have relations with an actual partner because they are so entrenched in pornography, so impacted by it, that they don't find pleasure in actual real intimacy anymore.

[Alex Clark]

One thing that I see on social media a lot, and it's usually other men kind of dogging on other men. Like, when people talk about being addicted to porn, they'll be like, what's wrong with you, brother? Just walk away from the computer like you're not an addict, like you can't be addicted to porn. What's your response to that?

[EZ Zwane]

It's a lie. And I mean, you know, look, common sense first of all, makes it clear that anything that you give yourself over to for hours and hours and days and weeks and months is going to get a hold on you. But pornography, because it's related to the human function of sexuality, it takes you in an even deeper way. I can't tell you how many men I've talked to who have gone to lengths that are unimaginable. I remember one man in particular. This guy's at work. He knows that he's being monitored. His boss has talked to him. He knows that it's going to cost him his job, and he's still looking at pornography at work. The impact is beyond, I think, what people realize or even imagine.

[Alex Clark]

What do you say to a guy who is like, you know, I can't help it.

[EZ Zwane]

It hurt.

[Alex Clark]

It literally physically hurts if I don't get relief watching porn.

[EZ Zwane]

So I give him this scenario. I say, let's say Elon Musk was up in one of his SpaceX rockets floating around in the sky. He jumps out, parachutes down to you, and he says, listen, if you go six months without looking at porn, 100 million bucks. I mean, he's got it with him in a briefcase, right? Ready, ready to give to you. I don't know one single man who would not stop looking at porn for six months. Every man would succeed and have victory. So it's an issue of value. I've often said value impacts behavior. What we value will impact how we behave. You know, we don't treat a penny in the same way we treat a $100 bill, right? There are days I'm walking around I'll see a penny on the ground or one will drop out of my pocket. I don't give it the time of day to stoop down and pick it up. But you and I would never do that with a hundred dollar bill. So value impacts behavior. But if the United States government suddenly switched those values and the penny became worth $100 and the $100 bill became worth a penny, you can be sure that our behavior would change. Start using the dollar bill as a scrap paper to write on, or maybe a napkin to wipe our hands with. And then we'd weep buckets of tears over all the pennies we didn't pick up because we realized that we'd be a millionaire by now. So it's an issue of value. We need to reorient our value system.

[Alex Clark]

Do you think there's correlation between pornography in erectile dysfunction we're seeing in really young men?

[EZ Zwane]

Oh, no question. It's a known phenomenon. Because what happens is when you have those massive dopamine dumps, when you're entranced by unrealistic sexual behavior, I mean, it's all dressed up, it's all hyped. You know, a lot of these people are on drugs when they're engaging in these things. It gets you to a place where normal sex doesn't even satisfy you anymore, where it just doesn't do it for you anymore. And that's why it even accelerates. You see people getting into all kinds of deviant pornographic behavior. In fact, one of the most popular genres of porn right now is incest. And who would think, who would fathom that? But you have to go further and deeper in order for the satisfaction to intensify.

[Alex Clark]

Talk about how the porn industry is bigger than Disney, it's bigger than the NFL, it's bigger than Netflix, all combined even. Like, what are the sneaky that the porn industry is targeting men?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, it's everywhere. You can't get away from it. They infuse it into advertisement, they infuse it into movies, into television programs, into podcasts. Everywhere you go, you can't escape it. But the problem is, Alex, isn't just what the industry is doing, it's what people are not doing. Especially you mentioned kids earlier. Especially what parents aren't doing to guard their kids. I can't tell you how many parents I've talked to and I've said, hey, you know, what kind of filters do you have on your computers? What kind of filters do you have on your kids phones? And they're just kind of like, what do you mean filters. And so there isn't any proactivity on the parts of parents to make sure that their kids don't go in that direction. And then at the same time, men don't guard themselves. You know, I've often said that men don't realize, and women, by that token, that we are at war. And so because we don't realize that, we kind of have this peacetime mentality when we're going through life. When it comes to this issue of porn, imagine someone being deluded into thinking, like, during World War II. A soldier during World War II being deluded into thinking that he's on a luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora to an exotic resort, when in reality he's on a Higgins boat heading for the shores of World War II Normandy. Can you imagine this guy sauntering off the Higgins boat? He's clad in his bathrobe, fluffy slippers, remote in one hand, latte in the other. That guy's gonna get smoked. And that's what's happening to men today. That's what's happening to kids today. They have this peacetime mentality when we're smack dab in the middle of war and nothing's being done.

[Alex Clark]

What sorts of questions on a date should a woman be asking a guy about porn?

[EZ Zwane]

You know, I have three daughters and I've had suitors come my way, many of them for my daughters. And that's the first question I ask. One of my daughters is a lot older now, and it's a question that she makes sure she asks at the beginning. And that is, hey, where are you in this regard? And, you know, I heard a very well known pastor say, the question isn't anymore, do you look at pornography? The question is, when was the last time?

[Alex Clark]

That's what I asked.

[EZ Zwane]

You looked at porn?

[Alex Clark]

Yep. So I asked that probably like on the. I probably say, like, if I make it to, like a third date, I'm not gonna say that on a first date, but on a third date, I'm like, when was the last time you watched porn? And they're like, yeah. And I mean, the answers are really interesting. You know, it's like, probably like within the last month or so, I'm really trying to get better at it. Or I mean, probably like a couple years ago I really felt convicted about it. Or, you know, never. And I'm like, never. Yeah. And then, you know, I'm really pressing. But, yeah, that's. I think that's really important. And it's a Question. Like, right now I feel like the hype is like, okay, we're really grilling them about are you Christian? We're really grilling them about your political views. But, like, nobody is talking about this, right? And what's interesting to me is the amount of women in my audience who are messaging me saying, I've been married for four years and I'm just discovering my husband has like this serious porn issue. And I'm like, wow, that is scary. I just feel so much for those women. But if there was a way to find that out before even getting married, I mean, yeah, if you've got like a pathological liar when it comes to this issue and he's really hiding it like a true addict was like, how do you think that you can kind of snuff this out?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah. Well, first of all, let me just say that the question is so important and has to be asked. And a lot of women have this misconception that, oh, well, maybe he's just struggling now because he's not married. You know, the guys that seem to struggle with porn most are the guys that are married because they're now in that realm. They're experiencing, gives them the opportunity to wander more in their thoughts. And I can't tell you how many men I know that have plunged into that in marriage. Marriage is destroyed because of it. And I think a lot of young women kind of want to plug their ears, close their eyes and pretend like it's not going on. Listen, if it exists before marriage, it's probably going to get worse after you're married and he's probably going to commit adultery on you.

[Alex Clark]

So if you're dating and it's really serious and you're dating for marriage, and the guy says, you know, I used to really struggle with this, but I'm a lot better now. What should be the follow up question?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, it depends on the nature. Nature of it.

[Alex Clark]

Okay.

[EZ Zwane]

You know, so how long ago was it? How. How deep were you into it? One of the questions that I asked a young man recently is what was the nature of the porn you looked at?

[Alex Clark]

Yeah, like what type?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, like.

[Alex Clark]

Because that kind of tells you how addicted they were. Like, if it was super messed up. Basically.

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, absolutely. Again, because it progresses typically, do you.

[Alex Clark]

Think that a guy is less likely to be honest with the girl he's dating on that when it comes to the type of content it was than like another guy at church, for example?

[EZ Zwane]

I know that there is that possibility for l. And at the end of the day, you don't fully know, but at least you can take the precautionary steps. I would even talk to his pastor. I would go as much as you need to. If you have any kind of suspicion in that regard, and if you do decide to date, be careful in the process. You gotta examine his character, you gotta examine his spiritual bent, you've gotta examine his accountability. What does he have in place? Even if a guy looked at porn, okay, we'll hit him with the questions. What have you done since then? Do you use accountability software? Do you have people that hold you accountable? Have you read books on the subject? What do you do when you're tempted? All of those things are extremely important because the stronghold is so strong and so destructive. And again, there's that lie that men can't help it. It's not that they can't, it's that they won't. And something needs to radically change. You know, I've often said, Alex, that if our lungs were sitting on the outside of our chest, right, instead of housed with these walls of flesh, you'd have a lot less smokers in the world, right? You've seen the healthy and the smoker's lung, like side by side in a picture online, I'm sure. But the problem is we don't see that in the moment. So if men are able to see what pornography does to them on a spiritual level, on a psychological level, on a social level, on a relational level, I think it'll be a wake up call. But there's just this blindness because we can't see the effects in the immediate.

[Alex Clark]

Can you explain how porn watching makes real life, sex and intimacy boring, unsatisfying or awkward?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, again, as I mentioned earlier, it's that fantasizing that leads to what you're experiencing not measuring up. It's being lured into a world that doesn't comport with what you're really experiencing. And so you're watching porn, you're seeing this glamorous, fantastical world, and then you're interacting with another real person, the person you're gonna wake up in the morning next to, who's got morning breath and who's snoring and who you know. You got relational issues that come into play. And so people create these unrealistic expectations. They're removed from real life when they're looking at porn. And so when. When they're thrust back into real life, it just doesn't measure up. And so that's what leads to adultery, that's what leads to disconnection, even Within a marriage.

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[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, well, that's the thing, right? I often tell men that. That porn isn't always the issue, in that men have pornographic machines in their brains. We've got memory, we've got imagination. And this is really the tragedy is that there are a lot of men who have this deception in their minds that masturbation's okay. I remember years ago counseling a young man when I was pastoring. We were in the prayer room, and he was saying, man, I don't know what's going on. You know, I'm in the word, I'm in prayer. I'm going to church. I'm serving in my church. He said, but I feel this weakness. I feel this real kind of inability to have deep strength in my life. And I just looked at him, I said, do you masturbate? And, you know, after the shock hit him, he goes, yeah. You think that has something to do with it? So a lot of guys are desensitized. You know, the. The. The act of sexual intimacy was created by God for a specific purpose. A guy didn't wake up one Tuesday morning and say, oh, that's a good idea, right? God designed it, he fashioned it, and he formed it for a specific purpose. But when we get out of those bounds for which it was created, we're engaging in something unnatural and something sinful. Sex was meant to be unifying between a Man and a woman. When you're not engaging in that way, then you're outside of God's bounds. You know, I remember when we sat our kids down to have the talk. You know, parents, when they have that talk with the kids, are always nervous, anxious, you know, wringing the hands, shifting the eyes, you know, and kids are like, I never want to do that. You. And so. But I remember before we sat down with the kids, I said to my wife, I said, honey, look, I want the kids to understand sex in light of the beautiful thing that it is. And so it's important how we present it to them. And so before we even sat down with them, I said, listen, kids, mom and dad want to talk to you tonight about something amazing, something beautiful, something wonderful that God created. And, you know, they're all excited about it. And so. So we sat down with them that night and we just. We laid it out, but in the beautiful context in which sex should be presented. And their minds were clear. Right? I love the saying that talks about how a child's mind is like a warehouse full of empty shelves. Whoever gets there first and stocks those shelves is going to make it harder for the next person to come unstock and restock them. And so I said, we want to beat the world to it. It. And so it's important for us to remember sex is beautiful. It's wonderful, it's amazing. God made it, but Satan has twisted it. Our flesh has perverted it, and the world has tainted it. And so we need to get back to a place where we see it in the beautiful context in which God has created it.

[Alex Clark]

What's your word of advice for a wife who is just in the middle of a season dealing with a husband who's addicted pornography? You know, he says, one minute he's getting better, he's doing a great job. Then she catches him slipping, or he's saying he's not watching it. She finds out that he is, and she's just wondering, like, how long am I supposed to put up with this?

[EZ Zwane]

You're not supposed to put up with it at all. The problem is, is that because it's become so prevalent, women don't take any steps. Oh, I guess every guy does this. Oh, I guess he's got it under control. I don't want to upset him and ruffle his feathers. Listen, anytime someone is in sin, anytime someone is in violation of God's natural design, they're doing something unnatural, and the end result is going to be destruction. So here's what I would say. To the wife. If you're approaching this from a selfless standpoint, like Philippians 2 says, let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, we're to consider others even more important than ourselves. If you love your husband, you're going to recognize, aside from how this is impacting you and your marriage and your children, it's destroying him. And so love would say, deal with it. So you got to sit down with him, you got to open up your heart, you got to come at him with love, compassion, but also honesty and saying, listen, this is not right. And if he doesn't take heed, you've got to get others involved. You've got to go to your pastor, you got to go to close friends. Because it's not a light thing, but because it's done privately and people don't see it expressed and the guy can go about life like normal, like it's no big deal, we don't do anything about it. But. But it's not a light thing. You can't just be half hearted about how you address it.

[Alex Clark]

Besides a moral issue, do you think that pornography is also a public health issue?

[EZ Zwane]

Absolutely. Well, all you have to do is look at the hard drives of pedophiles. All you have to do is look at the collection of downloaded videos of men who rape women. It's a massive health issue for our society in that regard. But also, of course, as we've talked about, the destruction of the individual themselves. Look, if I can convince someone that their brain cancer is just a bad migraine headache, I can convince them to take some extra strength Tylenol. If I can convince someone that their intestinal cancer is just a bad stomachache, I'll convince them to take some Pepto Bismol and end up destroying them. And so we can't be light about this. We gotta see it for what it really is.

[Alex Clark]

You talk about the world, the flesh and the devil attacking all areas of life. Can you give examples where porn is just the tip of the iceberg for.

[EZ Zwane]

Other cultural pressures, you've got different elements that are at play. Again, the spiritual is the most important. And Satan's tactics are what they've always been. It goes back to Eden in the garden, right when he was tempting Adam and Eve and it began with first discontent. Has God said you can't eat of every tree of the garden? Well, what did God really say? God said, you can eat of every tree except for one. But the way Satan angled it, he made it sound like God is like, look, you can't eat of every tree. No, he said, you can eat of every except for one. So he created discontent in them. Then it was disbelief. No, no, no, you won't surely die the way God said that they would. And that's what Satan does. He makes us think that the consequences for sexual sin aren't really what God says that are going to be. You know, First Corinthians 6:18 says, Every sin that a man commits, he commits outside of the body. But he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. So Scripture is setting sexual sin apart as a distinct sin. And why is that? Because in the context of the chapter, he's saying that when you commit sexual sin, you're joining Christ with a harlot. Because we're the temple of the Holy Spirit and Christ dwells in us. And so it's a serious thing. And then finally, it's deification. What did he end up saying to Eve? No, you will become like God. And that's the temptation of autonomy, of, you know, my body, my choice, in a sense. I can do what I want, and it's destructive. And then, you know, it leads to all kinds of cultural ramifications because we're not people of self control. We're not people who are walking in the fear of God. We're not people who understand how we were made and why we were made and how we're to function.

[Alex Clark]

If somebody doesn't believe in spiritual warfare, how can they still recognize and respond to these patterns?

[EZ Zwane]

Practically, even secular experts are now recognizing the harm of porn. Because for a long time it was, oh, it's fine, you can find entertainment through it. Hey, it may even help your sexual dynamics within marriage. But they're realizing now it's harm and it's destruction. So I would say that to anybody, just like someone who may not be a Christian or have a spiritual bent, who's doing drugs, I'd say, you've got to get help, you've got to stop. You've got to recognize that this is only going to lead you down a pathway of greater destruction. And so I would encourage them as well to get others involved and to get help. I mean, again, the bondage of sexual sin in many cases can exceed the bondage of heroin. It can exceed the bondage of all sorts of chemical dependencies because it's that intense. Because in a sense, there are chemical dynamics that are at work in it. And so you've got to get help and you've got to recognize that help is available, but you've got to take those steps.

[Alex Clark]

If somebody catches their 8, 9, 10, 11 year old son watching porn, what is the correct way to deal with that and respond?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, in self control. I think every parent, I have five, and I know the tendency when you come across something that's shocking is to fly off the handle. You've got to be careful that you deal with it delicately but at the same time deliberately. I can't tell you how many parents I've talked to whose kids have dabbled with porn, but they still haven't taken extreme measures. And so you have to take those extreme measures. 8, 9, 10, 11 year olds shouldn't be running around with phones with Internet access.

[Alex Clark]

Fully agree, Fully agree. That's the first problem. No iPads. If there's a computer, it should be in a common area where the whole family is at all times. Nobody's allowed on the computer by themselves without someone else in the room. I mean, and the phones, it's just unbelievable to me.

[EZ Zwane]

Well, yeah. And then parents are shocked, like, I can't believe my kid is doing this. It's like, what do you expect?

[Alex Clark]

This is what really freaks me out with friends of mine that have kids because almost all of my friends have kids at this point. And what they're doing is like, well, they're allowed to have a strategic iPad time just for a few minutes a day and they're allowed to go off, but they're just playing games. Why is that kind of like a. It's a false security?

[EZ Zwane]

Because kids are a lot smarter than parents realize. I've been educated by kids who have told me what they were doing to get around the system, how they were able to access pornography on apps. You would think, what in the world does that have to do with porn? But they're more media savvy or tech savvy than we realize. And so you want to be careful and giving them the opportunity to go in that direction and you do it in love. Look, the problem, Alex, is that parents are trying to tackle this when their kids are already entrenched in it. So you have to have what I call and I talk about it in my book Preventative Preparedness. You have to be determined to head off the dangers that lie ahead. And so you've got to be proactive. These are your children. You're custodians of the children of God that he's entrusted into your care and you can't be lied about it.

[Alex Clark]

What do you think is the right age to talk to your kids about porn?

[EZ Zwane]

I would say you kind of have kind of pre talks, if you would, before you get to the main talk. You talk to them about our propensity as people to be lured and tempted by things that are wrong. You talk to them about desires that they might have, that they could relate to. Even at a young age, 6, 7, 8, 9, as they enter preteen years, you start to up it a little bit. I'd say around 12, 13, you really open up that box in a deep way. And you may even need to before that, depending on the circumstance your child is in. If your kid is in school, you need to talk about it way sooner because they're gonna.

[Alex Clark]

Because maybe like somebody might, you know, show you.

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, they're gonna get bad pictures. Exactly. You're tactful with how you do it, with how you approach it. But again, 95 or 94% of 11 year olds will have looked at porn. It's insanity. And so you can't just have this thought of, oh, well, no big deal. Even things that you're watching. Friend recently was watching, I think it was an Andy Griffith show. And a commercial comes on with drag queens on it like Andy Griffith, you know, so you have to think ahead on what they might see, what they might hear already. And so I'd say the sooner the better, but you adapt it to their age.

[Alex Clark]

You talk a lot about how sex can be twisted into a weapon. How can somebody recognize whether a natural desire has been turned destructive or not?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, whenever you're willing to sin against God in order to fulfill it, whenever you're willing to hurt other people in order to satisfy yourself, you know, love has at its heart that desire to care about another more than you care about yourself. Right. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself. Well, we love God through glad obedience. Biblically, we love people through sacrificial service. It says in the word, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. And you know, when I talk to men about what it means to be a man, my book's called Fight Like a Man. Right. And there's a reason for that. You know, we're living a day where a Supreme Court justice candidate couldn't even tell us what a real woman is and much less a man. And so we're living in a day and age that's confused. And when I talk about fighting like a man, I'm talking not so much about what we would consider as masculinity. Someone who's deep Voiced and buff and athletic. That can all be true. But a real man is someone that has courage, conviction, devotion, dedication, self control. Self control, love, a willingness to sacrifice and lay their lives down for another. I ask men this. I say, look, if this guy came up to your wife, pulled his fist back and was about to clock her in the face and you were there, would you not jump in front of him and absorb that blow? Would you not fight him off if you could? A woman. If a man is pointing a gun at your children and is about to pull the trigger, would you not jump in front of him and take that bullet and fight that guy off if you could? Of course. But we're not willing to do that when it comes to protecting our husbands, our wives, our children from our sin of pornography, from our sin of sexual immorality. And something is wrong there. We have to step it up and say, no, this is worth the fight because of those that I claim to love.

[Alex Clark]

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[EZ Zwane]

Empathy is a must and should be natural. Because all of us have struggled with sin. All of us have struggled with temptation, all of us have struggled with the lure of lust. And so there has to be that recognition of, wow, first of all, that could be me. And second of all, maybe that has been me. You know, when we look at scripture and it talks about a whole host of sexual sins in 1 Corinthians 6, and then it says, and such were some of you, and such were some of you. So it's that reminder of that that was once us. And so there has to be empathy and sympathy and compassion. Otherwise there's a blindness there and it's gonna be counterproductive.

[Alex Clark]

Can you share a positive story where somebody successfully reframed sexual desire as a sacred connection rather than just something to consume?

[EZ Zwane]

You know, one of the things I did in my book at the end, which I'll do in every book I ever write, as I put an email address where I said, if this book has impacted you, I want to hear your story.

[Alex Clark]

Love that.

[EZ Zwane]

I can't tell you smart how many because yeah, it's like, you know, social media. You're going to get responses on your posts or whatever, but a book goes out, you just never know what happened or how it impacted anyone. And so I have a whole inbox that is full, full of emails from men whose lives have been changed through the truth of God's word. And it's been a joy One in particular whose marriage was on the brink. He said, hey, we were, like, on the brink. My wife was about to leave me. I read your book. I read the biblical principles in there. I repented. I confessed to my wife, and it transformed everything. And I mean, I'm a man, but I'm reading these things, and I'm, like, bawling my eyes out. Because that's the thing. There is hope in the Lord that no matter how badly you've fallen, how. How deeply you've gone into sexual sin, there is hope. We're talking about the God who raises the dead.

[Alex Clark]

Yeah.

[EZ Zwane]

And he can transform you.

[Alex Clark]

Do you think that society leans too heavily on addiction language instead of bondage language?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

Why does that matter?

[EZ Zwane]

I think because sometimes addiction language is sort of a scapegoat type of approach to sexual sin. And so I much prefer to talk about it as bondage, because that's what sin is. And scripture talks about that whoever you submit yourself to, you become that person's slave. When someone recognizes, okay, this is bondage. And what led to the bondage was my decision making. And then there is a bondage breaker whose name is Jesus Christ, who can transform my life, that infuses the situation with more hope versus, oh, it's just an addiction. And I think that the language of bondage also helps people to recognize a spiritual root of it. Because at the end of the day, you asked me earlier, what if someone, you know doesn't have a spiritual bent at the end of the day, whether they do or not, or claim to or not, it's always spiritual. It always comes down to what we're worshiping. And if you're not worshiping the true God, you're going to find another idol. And for many people, it's the idol of pornography and sexual sin.

[Alex Clark]

What is the Nope. Principle? You kind of came up with this. How can that help men struggling with porn?

[EZ Zwane]

So one day I was counseling a young man, and I said, man, how you doing with porn? And he said, you know what? I'm doing pretty good. I could see kind of like a sort of a joy in his response, like, I'm doing really good. I said, how are you doing, though, with lust? Because this goes to the question you asked earlier. I said, when you're going about your day, walking around, you see women or you're alone by yourself with your thoughts, how are you doing there? So he kind of hung his head a little discouraged and just said, man, I'm not doing too well there. And I felt this sort of Zeal for purity and righteousness rise up in my heart. And I said, you know what, brother? There just comes a time when we have to say, enough is enough. I am done with this. We gotta just say, nope, it's over. I said, in fact, you know what? We need to say that word nope out loud because nope. It's got an edge to it. It's like, if you ask me, hey, can you help me with this? And I go, no. It's one thing if I go, nop, right? You know, like, I mean business, right? It's no joke. So I said, we got to say it out loud because that commits us. So I sensed it resonated with him. It resonated with me. So the next day, I'm leaving home, heading to the office, and these. These two women come jogging by my car wearing barely anything. And I suddenly, instinctively caught myself going, nope out loud in my car. And as soon as I said it, I had this thought. I thought, man, I wish there was some sort of acrostic that could go along with that word that would help me and other men. And again, as soon as I thought it, it came to mind, and it's, nope, N, O, P, E. Not one peak even. Not one peak even. And then I thought, well, why not one peak even? I thought, well, it's because it's fueled by what I love. And Jesus said, whoever puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not fit for the kingdom. That's what we're doing when we're lusting, whether it's with porn or it's looking at other people or imagining or whatever. We're called to walk forward for the glory of God as citizens of his kingdom. And when we're looking at porn, we're looking back. We're not focused on the kingdom. And so I envision that as my hand goes out to reach the handle of the plow, each one of my five fingers represents one of the things that I love in life. And as I. And I think on it, my fingers are wrapping around the handle. So why. Nope. Why not one peak even? Well, first, it's because I love my Lord, the one who paid the highest price ever paid for anything to redeem me. Next, I love my lady, the woman that I vowed before heaven and earth to be faithful to. I don't want to wound her in any way whatsoever. Next, I love my lineage, my children, my grandchildren. Those are to come from them. I know that my sexual sin can destroy them. Next, I love his lambs, God's Children that I'm called to be an example to an impact. And finally, I love the lost. Those that I'm called to be a witness to as an ambassador of Jesus Christ. So because I love my Lord, because I love my lady, because I love my lineage, because I love his lambs, because I love the lost. Nope, not one peak even. Not now, not ever. Not with my mind's eye, not with.

[Alex Clark]

My physical Eye pornography is one thing. And then I think about guys dealing with lust and I'm like, man, that seems even harder to me. Like lust to me seems like, well, I don't even know how you control that. Like it's like thoughts that just pop up and what do you do? I mean, so what do you say to guys about that?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, well, that's why my book has a subtitle, A Bold Biblical Battle Plan for Personal Purity. Because here's the problem. Guys don't have a battle plan. They don't give their hearts and minds something to do when they're faced with sexual sin. So they don't have the preventative preparedness ahead of time. And then when they're in the midst of the battle, they don't have a game plan. And so I have what I call the six Cs to succeed. And these are six points that are biblically based. And each of them has an alliterated sentence that men memorize that go along with it so that they can train their heart and mind and they can go back to that just like with the note principle when they're in the heat of the battle. And so I'll just give you an example of a couple of them. So the first one is creation. And this is where I talk about the importance of realizing what's going on. When you're indulging in sexual immorality, you think about what's involved in like the whole process of lust. Right? First you have vision. Your eyes have 137 million light sensitive cells, right? The focusing muscle moves about 100,000 times a day. Your eye has a built in super sensitive light meter, immediate automatic focusing, wide angle LEN and full color instantaneous reproduction. Sounds like I'm talking about a camera. Right? But the camera was based on the human eye. Then you have cognition, so your eye is looking, but of course your brain is processing. You think about the human brain, more nerve lines than all the telephone lines in the whole world put together. Electrical signals from 200,000 living thermometer cells, a half million pressure sensing cells, 3 to 4 million pain sensing cells, all the Signals from your eyes, ears, nose, taste buds, they're all routed to your brain. You've got imagination, creativity, memory recall, like what computer would you compare the human brain to? And then finally you have coition. So vision, cognition, coition, and that's the word coitus, which is related to sexual intimacy and the mechanisms of that. You've got attraction, you've got desire, you've got pleasure, you've got anatomical compatibility, you've got procreation. You are dealing with features and faculties that are mind blowing. But what we're doing is we're taking these wonders and we're using them as weapons against God, ourselves and others. And so that alliterated sentences wield wonders as wellsprings for worship, not weapons for wounding. What we do, Alex, when we indulge in sexual sin, whether it's pornography or it's fornication or adultery or masturbation or whatever, it's like we're taking the Mona Lisa and we're using it as a doormat. It's like we're taking a grenade and we're casually throwing it around like a football, playfully. We're dealing with priceless and powerful things and it's high time we wake up and realize these things aren't to be trifled with.

[Alex Clark]

Can the nope principle be applied to things like gambling or food?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, because again, it comes down to self control. You think about it, everything in life comes down to self control, right? You're going to read God's word, you got to control yourself to do it. You're not going to commit adultery. You got to control yourself to do it. You're not going to look at porn. You got to control yourself to do it. Right. Everything is self control. You could apply that to anything. But ultimately it comes down to the fear of God. It comes down to love for Christ. You know that the last C is Christ. And that principle of seek the sweet Savior for strength, satisfaction and sympathetic support, it has to be Christian. And what blows my mind is it tells us in Hebrews 4 that we don't have a high priest who can't sympathize with our weaknesses. He was tempted in all points, as we are yet without sin, and says so we can come boldly to the throne of grace. We'll receive mercy and find grace to help us in time of need. So Christ isn't looking at you as a believer in your struggle with porn and just rolling his eyes and saying, you dumb idiot, he's looking at you and saying, I love you. I was Tempted in all points, as you are, right? I mean, the general temptation of lust. Of course, Christ would have been tempted by that. So he feels with you, he sympathizes with your weaknesses, and he calls you to run boldly to him. Scripture says that, that he doesn't quench a smoldering wick. He doesn't break a bruised reed. You know, you see a little wick with an ember barely on there. He fans it back into a flame. A bruised reed. He doesn't just break it and throw it away. He mends it back to health. That's what he does with people. So it has to be rooted in Christ and love for him and the fear of God. There was an artist years ago that had this song, and he was talking about, you know, entering the kingdom. And it was kind of a pilgrim's progress scene where he's heading for the kingdom and these enemies are coming at him. And he talks about how the porn monster was coming at him. It's a hip hop song, so it's. It's lyrically broken down that way. He said, with my sword, I hacked it to pieces because I'm way more attracted to Jesus. And I thought, man, that nails it. We have to build an attraction for Christ, fall in love with him, sit with him, spend time with him, grow in his word. That's going to be our greatest tool and weapon in the fight against porn and sexual sin.

[Alex Clark]

You've brought up one of the main reasons why men really feel like they're drowning on this issue is because they isolate themselves and they live in echo chambers. Why is isolation so dangerous in porn struggles for men in particular? And how does accountability prevent spiritual and relational decay?

[EZ Zwane]

Proverbs 18:1 says that he who isolates himself seeks his own desire. He quarrels against sound wisdom. I wouldn't be who I am today. I couldn't have written this book today if I didn't have men in my life who speak into my life. And I talk about what I call accountability fellowship, where it's not just chilling with the bros and watching a game and talking just gibberish. It's about opening our lives up to each other. I just got away with a group of 11 pastors. We went away and got accountable. We're looking at the pastors around us that are dropping like flies. We said, man, we. We don't want that to happen to us. And so we're getting accountable. We're opening our lives up to each other. And. And I talk about how, look, it's going to Take a number of elements. First, it's going to take trust. You got to find guys that you trust. And then it's going to take time. You got to invest the time that you need to. And then it's going to take transparency. You've got to be willing to open your life because you can lie and hide it. And then it's going to take teachability, your willingness to receive from others in that regard. So that's key. You've got to open up your life because you do end up in the echo chamber. You don't have anyone who holds you accountable, asks you the hard questions, prays for you, encourages you. I meet every month with a couple of different brothers. Another brother I meet with on a weekly basis. We ask ourselves the hard questions. And there are times when we've asked, have you lied about anything you just told me? Right. And that's why, ultimately, it comes down to the fear of God. You can have all the accountability in the world. You can have all the restrictions on your devices in the world. But if you don't fear God, which means honor him, are in awe of him, respect him, have that healthy sense that you would have from a parent that you revere in terms of discipline and so forth forth, then you're in big trouble.

[Alex Clark]

How do you cultivate reverence in a generation that rarely views anything as sacred?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, it deals with understanding and value, like I said, you know, what we value will impact how we behave with the illustration, with the penny and the $100 bill. So we need to get back to opening what reveals to us the value of God, and that is His Word. And then recognize that you have a choice to make when it comes to who Jesus Christ is. Is he Lord or isn't he in a fiat is? Then you need to bow your knee to him. Hey.

[Alex Clark]

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[EZ Zwane]

You know, it's crazy how the cross has become so devalued. We see it worn as a accessory. We see it used for decor. But people don't recognize, like, what the cross is. There are times, like, I'll see someone wearing a cross and the most profane things coming out of their mouths with the cross right beneath them. You know, we forget what the cross represents. That represents God Almighty, who condensed himself into a man giving his life to redeem his enemies. When we're indulging in sexual sin, what we're doing is. We're doing it, in fact, in the shadow of the cross. We're sitting at the foot of the cross indulging in that sexual sin, and in essence, saying what Jesus did meant nothing to me. And we're basically spitting on the cross and we're stomping it beneath our feet. And that principle in the book is, stop spitting and stomping on such a sacred symbol. We need to be crucified with Christ. Jesus said, if anyone comes after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. And so when. When we reconnect with the value of the cross and that our sin cost Christ his life, life on the cross, it becomes sobering. It can work kind of like a stopgate before we go, oh, I'm about to do this in the shadow of the cross to spit on it and stomp it beneath my feet. We don't like thoughts like that. They're uncomfortable. But when we. When we really uncover our sin for what it is, I think it could really help us to steer clear of it and really see what we're doing.

[Alex Clark]

What are the biggest mistakes parents are making when they have the talk with their kids, They're.

[EZ Zwane]

They're failing to help them understand how tempted they're gonna be.

[Alex Clark]

Oh, that's a good one.

[EZ Zwane]

When they face life.

[Alex Clark]

Okay, so how do you do that? How do you explain that?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, you explain to them the subtleties of sin. You explain to them their tendency to rationalize and excuse certain things that are going to lead them to harm. Well, I know that, you know, and as they grow up, especially, you know, oh, I know that this ex girlfriend of mine, you know, was a big flame of mine back in the day. But, you know, it's been a while since. Since we haven't been together, and I just want to see what. What she's up to online right now as a Married man, right? Oh, it's. Come on. What's the big deal? I'm watching the show. I know that there. There's some sex scenes in it, but I can handle it. I'm fine. You know the foolishness of thinking that we can handle certain things? We need to recognize that we can't. Oh, I'm just hanging out alone with my girlfriend in our apartment. No one's around. We're just cuddling on my bed. You're crazy. Sin is an enemy. What lioness would give birth to her cubs in a hyena's den? What chicken would lay her eggs in a fox's hole? What mouse would cuddle up to a boa constriction? No, it doesn't happen. But you let them understand their nature, their propensity to sin, the deceptiveness of sin, and the wisdom of being on your guard. To What? Do as 1st Timothy 4. 7 tells us, exercise yourself for godliness. 2nd Timothy 2. 2. Flee youthful lusts. Right. 1st Thessalonians 4. 3, 8. That you would know this is the will of God, your sanctification, that you should abstain from sexual immorality. So you have to be proactive. You have to be all in. This is war, and you can never let your guard down. You can't put your weapon down. You've got to fight.

[Alex Clark]

I love this from you. You said children's minds are like warehouses and that parents need to be stalking the shelves of their warehouses responsibly before the digital world does.

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

Can you elaborate on that?

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah, absolutely. It's what I mentioned earlier. You have to be proactive with your kids. You know, your kids need to be raised by design, not by default.

[Alex Clark]

Ooh, yeah.

[EZ Zwane]

Think of the things, Alex, that we planned for in life. We planned for our vacations, we planned for our weddings. We planned for our careers. We. We planned for our educational goals. We plan. But when it comes to this area of raising the children God's entrusted into our care, we're just kind of doing it on the fly. We have to pour ourselves into this and equip ourselves so that we can equip our children. So you stock those shelves by family devotions. You stock those shelves by good talks with your kids while doing fun things. It's not about just, like, sit down and find every opportunity you can to connect and to speak to the issues of life. Laugh with your kids. Have fun with your kids. Be tender, gentle. Read books with your kids. It's one of the things that we did early on with our Kids, we would read books at dinner time. You know, we'd be eating dinner, talking. I'd read a few pages of a book. We talk about it, discuss it. You know, you. You catechize your kids. You teach them the foundations and the principles of the faith. You open up to them about your own life and. And God's grace and mercy and how he's worked in you. And as you do that, you're not just giving them information, you're bonding their heart with yours. You're. You're creating in them this. This healthy sense of security. My parents love me. My parents care about me. You know, we have five children, and. And it's a joy to see all of them at the stage of life that they're at walking in. Purity, uprightness. The third one's about to get married.

[Alex Clark]

And I'm literally shook by this because. I'm not kidding. You just tell you, when I met you and your wife, I thought you guys were like, parents of, like, really young kids. Like, I thought you were in, like, your late 30s or mid, late 30. I'm like, I'm like, I don't understand how you have grandchildren.

[EZ Zwane]

Ye. Plastic surgery works wonders. I'll give you my surgeon's number.

[Alex Clark]

Afterwards, I literally shook this whole time. I'm like, what?

[EZ Zwane]

But anyway, we got married young, got married at 20, had our first at 21.

[Alex Clark]

Wow, that's awesome.

[EZ Zwane]

Our oldest is 28 now. Our youngest is 18. And it's been such a joy. We have in our home a plaque that sits on our wall, and it's connected to a family vision statement that I drafted years ago. I sat my family down in the living room and I unveiled it to them. And it reads like this. This to gladly and passionately glorify God in every thought, affection, word, and deed, while constantly enjoying him as our greatest pleasure and most precious treasure. I've memorized that. My wife's memorized that. Our five kids have memorized that. It's become the foundation for our family devotions. It's become the cornerstone of our. Of our discussions. Because if there's anything I want my kids and their kids and their kids. Kids to know is that they were made by God and for God, and they're calling us to live for his glory story. And so you start young with stuff like that, you know, and. And it. It really does make a difference.

[Alex Clark]

How can somebody walk away from pornography and feel empowered rather than just shame?

[EZ Zwane]

Well, let me say this first. This. This may be a little bit controversial. Yes, we love that. I think shame is a good thing. Okay, yeah, let me explain that. We're living in a culture that. That is constantly talking about getting rid of shame, getting rid of shame. Now, in part, I agree with that, but. But it has to be in its right context. Wherever sin exists, we should experience shame. If we're living in rebellion, if we're living in sin, then it's appropriate to be ashamed. In scripture, it talks about a certain people group, and it says they. They no longer know how to be ashamed or how to blush. In the book of Thessalonians, it talks about how, you know, to remove such a one from among you so that they may be ashamed. So there's. There's biblical foundation for shame, which means what? Having that sense of regret, that sense of remorse, that. That sense of even displeasure toward yourself when it comes to your sin. But that shame should lead to repentance, which should lead to freedom from shame.

[Alex Clark]

So there's a difference between shame and guilt.

[EZ Zwane]

I think that guilt. Guilt can. Can be a part of shame or feeling ashamed. Okay, but what happens is when you. When you repent and get your life right with God, the shame can be removed. The guilt can be removed.

[Alex Clark]

Yes.

[EZ Zwane]

Otherwise, people are just dulling their consciences. Oh, and that's the mindset. Like, I don't want to feel ashamed, so I'm gonna. I'm not gonna listen to that. You know. No, what I'm doing isn't wrong. I don't want to, you know, feel shame. No, no, no. Let the shame do its work. Let the guilt do its work. Work to lead you to repentance, to receive God's grace, mercy, and forgiveness, and then be free from the shackles of shame.

[Alex Clark]

What should the church be doing to effectively deal with this issue and help men in the congregation? Because, oh, my gosh, I mean, I could do a whole podcast on this. I just think, historically, especially for millennials.

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah.

[Alex Clark]

The entire purity, porn, sex issue has been so botched in the church, how they've dealt with it. So what do we do now going forward? 2026 on.

[EZ Zwane]

I'll tell you what, what has been one of my greatest delights is I've had a couple of really large churches and some conferences that have invited me and allowed me to speak on this topic. We have to stop pretending like this isn't, like, probably the issue of our age in the church.

[Alex Clark]

Wow.

[EZ Zwane]

We got to stop that. Like, that's dumb. Men are being ravaged. I mean, honestly, if. If there was, like, some kind of chemical you could shoot out across your congregation. And the men that are looking at porn would glow. Or even the women. Right. Of women, by the way, are looking at porn. So it's not just a men's issue. The whole place would light up. So a pastor's job is to shepherd the flock that's been entrusted into his care. So you need to address it. You need to talk about it. You could do it tactfully, you could do it tastefully, and you need to especially infuse it with grace. But you can't pretend like it's not going on. You know, there's one pastor who just took his entire men's group, a hundred men. It's a big church through my book. In fact, he wrote his own study guide to take them through it. And we have a study guide that's coming out real soon as well, that's a companion to the book. But address it, talk about it. Ask the hard questions on an individual basis with the men in your church, and they'll thank you for it because they'll see that you love them.

[Alex Clark]

Talk about your book. Fight Like a Man. Who's it for? What do you cover?

[EZ Zwane]

It's designed for men, but I've been blown away by the number of women. Like I said, I have that email address, the number of women that have said they've read it and it's radically impacted them. Because, as you asked about other places where nope can apply. The principles in the book apply to other areas. So it's not just focused on just sexual immorality. The principles tie in with how we can build a life that glorifies the Lord. So it's built for men, but works for women as well. And it's broken down into four sections. And it's really about knowing who our enemy is, what their tactics are against us, and how. How to counter attack, how to combat those enemies. And it's broken down into four parts. The world, the flesh, the devil, and then the six C's and a Nope.

[Alex Clark]

And you can get this on Amazon.

[EZ Zwane]

Yeah. Amazon would be the main place to get it. Fight Like a Man. A bold biblical battle plan for personal purity. And let me just say, I've been blown away by its success. It was endorsed by Dr. John MacArthur, which blew my mind before he passed. Like he's the pastor of pastors. That's so special. Yeah. It was endorsed by Ray Comfort. Endorsed by. By Owen Strand, which is a friend of mine that I know you've had on Ken Ham from Answers in Genesis, wrote the foreword to the book all Cool people and its debut, it was a number one new release in a number of categories and one of the top selling books on all of Amazon. So it's been awesome. And again, the men that have written and have said it has transformed their lives, it's been so encouraging.

[Alex Clark]

Where can people find you on social media?

[EZ Zwane]

So you could check me out on Facebook, on Instagram, you could check out our ministry, Living Watch and Emil Zwain is the name or Easy Zwain Sahandel.

[Alex Clark]

If you could offer one remedy to hela sick culture, physically, emotionally or spiritually, what would it be?

[EZ Zwane]

It would be the emphasis on who made you, why he made you and why he put you here. When all those questions are answered, you'll find that you'll have the remedy to every area of life.

[Alex Clark]

Life.

[EZ Zwane]

And ultimately that's all rooted and centered and grounded in the person of Jesus Christ.

[Alex Clark]

I like that. That's like a remedy hack. Nobody's done that. Nobody's done that on the show. We gotta hack it up easy. Thank you for coming on Culture Apothecary.

[EZ Zwane]

It's been a joy. Thanks for having me.

[Alex Clark]

Before we were Culture Apothecary and it was the show by the old name, I did interview a former porn star who became a Christian and totally changed his life. I also interviewed a woman who battled with pornography addiction all throughout teens and early twenties. I have not though, until this moment interviewed anybody on how to talk to your kids about sex or what to do if you find your spouse or your child struggling with pornography. So I really hope that this episode will bless you, your families and give you the tools that you need to tackle this problem if it has presented itself in your own families. Please leave a five star review anywhere you get your podcast. You can continue the discussion in the cute Servitus Facebook group. I'm Alex Clark and this is Culture Apothecary.