Interviews with Gilda Dent Actor Marcella Lentz-Pope, Two-Face Actor Adam O'Byrne, & Writer Jeph Loeb

Summary

DC High Volume: Batman – Detailed Summary

Episode Release Date: July 31, 2025

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Introduction

In this special oversized episode of DC High Volume: Batman, host Koi Jondreau delves deep into the intricate world of Gotham City through a series of insightful interviews. Celebrating the culmination of the four-part adaptation of Batman: The Long Halloween, the episode features conversations with key contributors: Marcella Lentz-Pope, the voice behind Gilda Dent; Adam O'Byrne, who brings Two-Face to life; and the acclaimed writer Jeph Loeb. This episode explores character development, the nuances of audio adaptation, and the enduring legacy of these iconic Batman stories.

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Interview with Marcella Lentz-Pope as Gilda Dent

Timestamp: [00:00] - [31:09]

Marcella Lentz-Pope shares her journey into voicing Gilda Dent, highlighting the unexpected twist of her character being the Holiday Killer.

• Origin of the Role: Marcella discusses her initial reluctance and unfamiliarity with comic books. “[03:07]...I say nerd with all the love,” she recalls, emphasizing her fresh perspective bringing depth to Gilda.

• Character Development: She reflects on portraying Gilda as a seemingly fragile woman with a hidden strength. “[04:28]...you have to know that how did I feel? And if I'm feeling this, then hopefully the Goal. The audience is feeling this.”

• Emotional Connection: Marcella connects Gilda's desire for motherhood with her own experiences as a new mother, allowing her to infuse genuine emotion into the role. “[08:20]...she desperately wants to be a mother...”

• Performance Highlights: She describes her transformative moments in the booth, particularly during the shocking reveal of Gilda’s true nature. “[04:08]...she’s the killer...”

• Impact of Audio Format: Marcella appreciates the immersive soundscaping of the audio adaptation, likening it to classic 1940s radio plays. “[12:09]...this is my radio play.”

• Empathy and Complexity: She emphasizes the importance of empathy for Gilda, despite her actions, highlighting the complexity of her character. “[30:07]...leave some space. Call your mothers. People are all going through something.”

Notable Quotes:

• “[06:25]...the emotions that she was feeling, and if I truly was feeling the emotions that she was going through...”
• “[08:34]...I am a mom as well. And at the time, I was even a newer mother...”

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Interview with Adam O'Byrne as Two-Face

Timestamp: [32:45] - [88:15]

Adam O'Byrne provides an in-depth look into his portrayal of Two-Face, exploring the character’s moral dilemmas and transformation from Harvey Dent.

• Casting and Introduction: Adam discusses his initial exposure to Batman through Michael Keaton’s portrayal and his audition process for Two-Face. “[33:21]...find the truth of what this guy's is going through.”

• Character Complexity: He delves into Harvey Dent’s internal struggle and how it leads to his transformation into Two-Face. “[36:42]...this guy really cares about this place...”

• Performance Techniques: Adam explains the physical and vocal adjustments he made to differentiate Harvey Dent from Two-Face, emphasizing the psychological trauma that fuels the character’s actions. “[40:17]...I felt more, like, chesty a little bit...”

• Collaboration with Jeph Loeb: He highlights the collaborative process with writer Jeph Loeb and the transition of Tim Sale’s artwork into the audio format. “[67:53]...how the magic of comics translated into sound.”

• Themes and Morality: Adam reflects on the ethical dilemmas presented in the story, questioning whether Gotham City’s corruption necessitated Batman’s existence. “[73:30]...if Batman didn't exist, would the escalation have happened?”

• Legacy and Impact: He expresses his hopes for the audience to understand the humanity behind Two-Face, fostering empathy rather than simple villainy. “[78:20]...they are really other sides. They are other parts of the human experience.”

Notable Quotes:

• “[37:20]...moral integrity is aggressively challenged by the circumstances...”
• “[50:34]...these are true feelings that I hope people can identify with now of Harvey and then also some of the aspects of Two Face.”

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Interview with Jeph Loeb – Writer of Batman: The Long Halloween

Timestamp: [52:41] - [87:42]

Jeph Loeb discusses the creation and adaptation of The Long Halloween, offering insights into the storytelling process and his collaboration with artists.

• Origins of The Long Halloween: Jeph narrates how the collaboration with Tim Sale began and evolved into a multi-artist, audiobook adaptation. “[55:01]...Archie approached us with the opportunity to expand the story.”

• Storytelling in Audio: He explores the challenges and creative solutions involved in translating a visually rich comic into an immersive audio experience. “[67:53]...the honor is such, how it's being delivered.”

• Collaboration with Artists: Jeph emphasizes the importance of working closely with multiple artists to honor Tim Sale’s legacy while bringing fresh perspectives to the story. “[66:36]...Mark Waid’s influence...”

• Themes of Morality and Chaos: He delves into the underlying themes of the story, such as the inevitable emergence of chaos in a corrupt city and Batman’s role in maintaining order. “[39:12]...organized situation, chaos is going to break out.”

• Legacy and Continuing the Story: Jeph reflects on the enduring impact of The Long Halloween and the process of continuing the story through The Last Halloween. “[78:20]...it still has to live on another medium.”

Notable Quotes:

• “[73:57]...it just all came together. And I think that’s so rare.”
• “[87:42]...this is something that is...a really human aren't really.”

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Conclusion

This episode of DC High Volume: Batman masterfully captures the essence of The Long Halloween through heartfelt interviews and deep dives into character psychology. Marcella Lentz-Pope and Adam O'Byrne bring nuanced portrayals of Gilda Dent and Two-Face, respectively, while Jeph Loeb provides invaluable insights into the storytelling process. Together, they illuminate the complex moral landscapes of Gotham City, offering listeners a rich and immersive experience that honors the legacy of these iconic Batman stories.

Final Thoughts:

• Empathy and Complexity: The episode underscores the importance of viewing characters beyond their surface, fostering a deeper understanding of their motivations and struggles.
• Audio Adaptation: The transition from comic to audio is explored as a unique medium that enhances the storytelling through immersive soundscaping and nuanced performances.
• Legacy and Continuity: The enduring nature of The Long Halloween and its adaptations highlights the timeless appeal of Batman’s world and its characters.

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Recommendations

• Listen to the Full Episode: For a comprehensive understanding and to enjoy the full depth of the conversations.
• Explore Batman: The Long Halloween: Delve into the original comic series to appreciate the foundation of these adaptations.
• Check Out DC Universe Infinite: Access a vast catalog of comic books to continue supporting and enjoying comic art.

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Thank you for joining this detailed summary of DC High Volume: Batman. Stay tuned for more insightful episodes exploring the rich tapestry of DC Comics.

Transcript

[Koi Jondreau]

Close your eyes.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Exhale. Feel your body relax, and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And breathe.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Koi Jondreau]

1-800-Contacts. Hey, guys, it's Christian McCaffrey, pro running back. I'm partnering with Abercrombie this season to tell you about their viral denim. All you need to know is denim should fit like this. Abercrombie's athletic fit is a game changer. They're designed for guys with an athlete's build like mine. Just enough room and the perfect stretch. When a jean fits that well, I'm.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Wearing it on repeat.

[Koi Jondreau]

Shop Abercrombie Denim in the app, online and in store. Hi, I'm Koi Jondreau and welcome to DC High Volume Batman. In this monthly companion series, we sit down with the cast and crew of DC High Volume Batman and beyond. Where we last left off in the story was the end of the long Halloween. After all these weeks, we know who the holiday killer is. And so, spoiler alert, we're going to be sitting down and talking with her today. I am so excited for this special oversized episode. As it's the end of the long Halloween. We thought we'd do three interviews to fully celebrate the experience. So we've got Marcela, Len Pope, who is our Gilda Dent, as well as Harvey Dent, Adam o'. Byrne. And today we're going to be sitting down the man who wrote this story, who brought us one of the most iconic Batman stories of all time, who continues to bring us some of the most iconic Batman stories of all time. The one and only Jeff Loeb. But first, let's bring out Gilda Dent. Marcella Lens Pope. I am sitting down with Gilda Dent herself. Marcella Lentz Pope, a storied actor of voice, work and screen. I am so excited to dive into this. You might know her from Superbad, might know her from Social Network, might know her from Boardwalk Empire, might know her from League of Legends. List goes on, but for us, she is gilded dense. How are you?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I'm doing good. I'm a little embarrassed by that intro.

[Koi Jondreau]

The buildup to us talking about it. I was like, can I make it.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Bigger than we've even started with sounds very daunting.

[Koi Jondreau]

The Mount Rushmore of the IMDb page is very strong.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

You pick the best of the mess there. The crim of the crop.

[Koi Jondreau]

So for me, this is the best. The best, because I have a very strong bias towards this character. Gilda Dent is a character that I find to be a underrepresented twisty tourney detective experience. And people don't give the payoff of. Oh, my God. That's where it goes enough to me. And people have just heard it seconds ago.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

If they're listening, it just aired.

[Koi Jondreau]

So as of this moment, the world knows. We'll get to that in a minute. But how did you get there first? I want to get your origin before we get to that moment.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

So, interestingly enough, when we started recording, they'd asked me, okay, did you have you read it and everything? And my fiance is a huge comic book nerd. And I say nerd with all the love. All the love. So, of course, when I told him that I booked it, he, like, immediately goes to his bookshelf and he's like, oh, you mean this? Okay, who are you? And he, like, freaked out with when I, oh, I'm Gilded Dent. I don't know. No, no, I am not into comic books. Not for lack of loving. I just have other tastes. And so I started reading it, and then when we started recording, I hadn't finished it, so they were like, so have you read through it? I was like, oh, I haven't finished. And they're like, do you know the contextualized thing? Yeah. And I was like, no, I don't. And then so they told me. Can I say. I can say this now, right?

[Koi Jondreau]

But isn't this crazy? You get to say, this is crazy.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I'm the killer. So they're like, yeah, you're. You. You were your holiday.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Your.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Your holiday. You. You. You killed these people.

[Jeff Loeb]

And I was like, what?

[Koi Jondreau]

You got the twist in real time. You got to, like, limit like.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

No, serious. I was like, you're kidding. Like, all of a sudden, this character became so much more interesting to me.

[Koi Jondreau]

You're like, I'll show up all this comic stuff.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

No, seriously, because this was not what the audition was at all. You know, like, the audition. I think it was like the earlier scenes that you probably heard in. I think it was in the first episode. And when I saw, like, the pictures of her, I kept thinking like, oh, she's such, like, she looks like such a fragile, weak woman. And then I was like, I can't think of her like that one, I hate just, like, deciding what a woman's like just because of what she looks like on the outside. We have no idea what's going on. And very, very strong women could be.

[Koi Jondreau]

I like this character.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, my gosh. She's so awesome.

[Koi Jondreau]

Like, she's the definition of that.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yes. Like, you don't judge a book by its cover, and just because a woman looks a certain way doesn't mean that she's not a total badass.

[Koi Jondreau]

Exactly. The character, like, illustration in writing. And also your delivery. I'm so impressed at the way that you were able to bring this Quiet, meek. You can feel her. Her slightness in the. The verbiage, and you can feel it in your delivery of the verbiage. And that's really, I think, difficult to have only an audio representation of petiteness. Like, it's. If you haven't read this, I can tell she's small.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

And that's really cool.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah. And I'm not, you know, so it's regular purse. I'm a regular person. And she feels like I have a big personality as well. So, like, getting to play that as well was. It was really nice, and it was a nice kind of departure from other parts that I've ever been able to play. So that was really cool. And it's so grounded. She's so grounded. The entire project is so grounded. Yeah. It just. It was really great.

[Koi Jondreau]

So the smallness being such an integral part of the reveal and integral part of the character, it was important to me, as a fan of this, like, your fiance, that the. The moment had to pay off, because this is a murder mystery, and if you don't have that matter, then it's like one of us spent the last weeks on.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

No.

[Koi Jondreau]

So that. That smallness. I'm wondering how you developed the voice to land that way. How do you find that and then listen back and go, ah, she sound.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

You know, this was a great thing about this project being so grounded. I wasn't necessarily thinking about, I have to put on a voice. It was much more about the emotions that she was feeling, and if I truly was feeling the emotions that she was going through and reading the words that Jeph Loeb, like, brilliantly wrote, whatever voice came out of me would be the right voice, and I just kind of had to.

[Koi Jondreau]

Trustful.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

That's cool. Yeah. You know, so I. I really, really was not worried about how I sounded. I really wanted to just know that how did I feel? And if I'm feeling this, then hopefully the Goal. The audience is feeling this. So I did make a decision, though, when voicing her that I was not going to do the thing that some people do when they are the rant. Rant. The murderer is like, have you know that you're the killer. And you're saying these lines, so you should be thinking about you're the killer. So, like, oh, I don't know. Who could be Holiday? I'm not sure. Like, I did. I. I do watch and listen to a lot of true crime.

[Koi Jondreau]

Okay.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I do like my true crime. And the serial killers and the killers in real life, when you interview their family and their friends every single time, they're always like, I had no idea.

[Koi Jondreau]

Right. You can't have it be someone that's like, they were a little off.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah. You know what? Yeah, they were kind of like a little.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yes. They were always like, I had no idea this came out of left field. Like, what? So I was like, okay, I'm going to play this entire first part not even thinking about her being the murder at all. It's just not in. She's just a mother. I mean, she's not a mother. She's a wannabe mother. She's a loving, doting wife. And I'm just gonna keep it between Harvey and I and our relationship, and then when it gets to that end part, then we'll kind of focus on that. But right now, it's just our marital relationship and my personal struggle in being a woman and wanting to be a mother.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yeah.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

And I'm a new mother as well. And at the time, I was even a newer mother. So there were a lot of things with Gilda that I was able to connect to and grasp onto and be like, oh, I. I totally understand where she is and where she's coming from.

[Koi Jondreau]

And playing subtlety is so important, especially with the world's greatest detective. It's not even like, you know, your friends in Nebraska didn't know. It's like, Batman didn't know. Like, you can't have that reveal come out of nowhere.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Exact. You've got to really believe it. And I do think when the stakes are so high, even if you're not an actor every day, Joe Schmoe can lie. You don't have to be an actor to be a good liar.

[Koi Jondreau]

Right.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

You know, so if the stakes are so high and this is life and death, and she doesn't want something this big of a secret to come out, she will be incredible at keeping that, and no one will be able to.

[Koi Jondreau]

Know, and no Mustache twirling, which is nice. Like this didn't feel like, you know, the underbelly. Then again, that doesn't work because we have those villains. We literally have the rogues gallery of Batman for Batman.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Like, this is so cool that she like, whoa, turn around. She's the killer. What?

[Koi Jondreau]

We have that splash page.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yes.

[Koi Jondreau]

And that's. I've always loved the dichotomy of the imagery and now the sweets of that splash page of just this cacophony of like evil and vibrancy and so much. And then it's like Gilda, Gilda. Cuz it's like the next page.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

And I loved that format and I love the way that we brought it to life here where you've got Batman taking out all of the icons that we've grown up with. You got all of this intensity, intensity, intensity. And then somehow the intensity of a small moment is bigger. And I'm curious for you, what was it like to hear that for the first time knowing that it's like.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Well, when we were recording, we. God, we did. I don't know how many. We did a lot of takes for the last monologue. A lot. When we tried many different ways of going. I mean, I was at a 10 the whole time, like total psychotic. You know, for some of them we really were trying to figure out like, where is she? And then we did a few that are kind of similar to what actually was chosen, which was kind of this underplayed. She still is small because that's who she is. But there's a passion there, there's an energy and there's a drive. And that drive, that focus, that drive is what kind of makes her want to be a mother. And also what makes her do anything to be a mother. It was kind of surreal listening back to what they chose. Cause I'm going through all the different takes that we did. Like, oh, that's interesting. Oh, okay, okay. And of course being completely judging myself the entire time as well. Cause I'm an actor. But the end part, like, it really brought it home for me. I was just like, oh, that's. And not to pat myself on the back, but I was just like, oh, that was perfect. They chose the like, yes, yes, that. That landed so well.

[Koi Jondreau]

And you got to say, one of the most iconic lines I know, in my opinion, in all of Batman, like, I believe in Harvey Dent is such a moment.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I know.

[Koi Jondreau]

And did. The only time I'll wonder, did your fiance go, you get to see the filming?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh my God, no. Yes. Oh, no. He immediately was like, showing me the panels and like, this is you. This is you. This is you. This is you. And when I saw I believe in Harmony, I mean, he didn't tell me that I was Holiday or the murderer or anything. So I'm just looking. I'm like, oh, that's cool. Like, I've seen that in the movies. Like, oh, that's cool.

[Koi Jondreau]

I know that one.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I'm like, I know that one. Oh, cool. Like, oh, that's a really cool picture. And it was also just cool, like me only knowing Batman through the movies and the cartoon show and just like, what a non comic book fan would know about Batman. Me finding out that Gilda was the murderer instead of some psychotic crazy clown, tooth fairy or whatever, you know, crazy villain. That was also like, oh. Oh, wow. Oh, this is. This is different.

[Koi Jondreau]

This is.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

This is a. This is a different story, a different style. And then, of course, listening to it, it's incredible. Oh, my God, it's such an experience. The first episode of year one that I was listening to, I was driving and after five minutes, I literally had to pull over and just listen to the rest of the episode. Luckily, I wasn't going anywhere. Like, I need to get there.

[Koi Jondreau]

Why are you late?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Sorry, guys. I had to listen, but like, literally just pulled over to listen to it because I was like, this is. I'm one. I like when I'm listening to close my eyes. So I wanted to just like close my eyes and pull over and like fully give into it. The mix, the sounds they have of Gotham City of like the foots, everything, it is so good. And it very much reminded me of, you know, the radio plays back in the 40s and that is something like I. That has always been a huge, like, tick off my bucket list to do a radio play of some sort. I used to listen to them with my parents.

[Koi Jondreau]

What a one to do.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Love them. And then like doing this, it was like, oh, my God, this is. This is my radio play.

[Koi Jondreau]

And what a noir. Like, this is such in tone. This is like a detective story.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Completely. Like, this is my noir radio play. Like, oh, my God, I'm checking this off. This is incredible. So, yeah, that was great.

[Koi Jondreau]

That's why I love comic books because to me, a lot of people have an idea of what comic books are. To me, a lot of people have an idea of even what Batman is. But then it's like, oh, I love 20s Noir Radio Place. Yes, we got one.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

There's a version of every kind that is Something that I have learned through my fiance because, like, I was very naive when we first started dating of like, oh, comic books are just all like this. And he's like, no, let me show you the world. It was very Aladdin. I can show you the world. And like, that's kind of cool.

[Koi Jondreau]

And you're one.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I can. I could get into that.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

There's such an approachability once you realize, like, there are options and it's not one thing.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yes.

[Koi Jondreau]

And year one, I think, is a great way for people to get like, okay, the origin isn't even what you think. And there's so. Especially listening to it.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

The.

[Koi Jondreau]

The Gotham character becomes so much more prevalent in audio.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, my gosh.

[Koi Jondreau]

So I think it's only work is.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Just like, so good.

[Koi Jondreau]

And the soundscaping is so immersive that it moves around you.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It's like immersive theater, like, completely. Which is why I was like, I have to. I have to pull over. This is. And then we. I actually listened to the second episode at home on our surround sounds, which was such a trick.

[Koi Jondreau]

You've done what I did. I listened to that too. In different ways.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, my God.

[Koi Jondreau]

So I specifically made sure each was a different experience.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Third episode, I was on my headphones.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yep.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Fourth, I think was back in the car. Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

I did. I have these like 4 foot calf floor speakers. Like the Maxell ad where you're like. Like, I wanted that to be a thing. So I just sat there like Batman. And that was crazy. And then I did one with headphones because I wanted to see, like, if I felt that weird, like, back of brain tickle.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, my God.

[Koi Jondreau]

When it like, listens a certain way. And then the fourth one I did with people as like an event. Like I had with me to see if it affected, if I was like checking in on people. Like that thing. Like, I like this movie, you guys. Good.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

But also like, hearing like, where do they laugh?

[Koi Jondreau]

Where are they? Like, you know, because we know comic fans know the story so well. I was like, I can try that with the big speeches.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

You had the story, like, completely memorized.

[Koi Jondreau]

When you were listening Long Halloween. And you're one or two of the things that I could like, almost recite.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Wow.

[Koi Jondreau]

Like, they're both so formative to bat fans.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

So I personally.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Incredible.

[Koi Jondreau]

Well, it's. It's such a. That's why Gilda means a lot to me because it's one of those books that I gave to people when I was like, oh, I don't know if you'll like all comics, but this is for everyone.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

That's so my fiance does the same thing when he, like, meets people who are interested in comics. He like, curates these, like, like four or five comics. Like, this will be a good one to start you here and like, this will hear. And then, like, don't worry about getting back to me. Just. Just enjoy it. But like, he loves curating little sets to give to people.

[Koi Jondreau]

I've done a show called Comic Book Shopping where I interview people and in real time pull books based off their answers. Oh, my gosh, I love doing it to the scale of, like, let me do an entire, oh, 100 comic. That's the fifth love language or six comic books. There's recommendations, but the Long Halloween is one of the consistent ones where it's like, it's not for a personality type, it's for people's. Like, most people will get something, whether they're identifying with Harvey, whether identifying with Batman or Bruce or both. But Gilda, no one's going to expect. And that's what's fun is I know, like, if I'm like a housewife that doesn't want to raise your voice too much, you'll like the Long Halloween and you'll have a really special time.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I mean, honestly, this is how naive I was when I auditioned. I was like, oh, Gilda Dent, Harvey Dent's wife. Okay. Another. Another doting wife part. Like, okay, cool. Like, done that before. Like, just have another role where a woman is just all she is is the who she married to, you know? So like, having that whole turn was just like, oh, this is so delicious.

[Koi Jondreau]

And doing it on audio. I'm curious with your on screen work and audio work, there's such different animals in the actual act of doing them.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yes.

[Koi Jondreau]

Like, you're in a booth, no one's with you. You've got your feet. What was that like? And why does. How does it differ most for you?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

You're right. But also at the same time, acting.

[Koi Jondreau]

Is acting still a performance?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It's still a performance, but I do think instead of with some animation or video game work that I would do where maybe I am slightly putting on a voice or morphing my voice to do something different, like I said before, this was something where I was not focusing on my voice. I was focusing on the emotions, on the feeling, on the character herself and. And just keeping her as grounded as possible and as real as possible, not thinking, oh, this is a performance. I really, really didn't want it to come off. Like, she. That this was. Some perform this thing, you know, it just. This is just a woman at home, and she's just talking to her husband. And there's a lot going on, for sure. But I didn't want to think about it as, like, this big thing. And that's, I think, where. I think it's a kind of a plus in this world. Like, you can actually escape and listen to this film noir without the. Minus the film, and completely escape into this world. And it still feels real. It doesn't necessarily feel heightened. It doesn't necessarily feel like an animated series, which I love animation completely. But it is very different.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yeah.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It kind of teeters between animation and on camera. It was really fun, and it's. And I love what I do. I absolutely. I love working. I love working in any job, but some jobs are just more fun than others for whatever reason. And she was just so much fun.

[Koi Jondreau]

I like that you can visualize things with this format so much so that, like, the Gilda of your mind becomes so much more figurative. Like, you can imagine her in the way that you perceive her.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yes. But also at the same time, when we were recording, the panels were right up on my screen.

[Koi Jondreau]

As a fan of the comic, I.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Love that I was able. And we kept. I mean, the writing, they kept. So they were completely honoring what Jeph Lowe wrote. Like, so having her up there and I'm seeing her and I'm saying the lines and looking back and forth, like, it was able to kind of, like, keep me in just the right mood and the right feeling. I honestly think that's why the entire series feels so cohesive, because everyone was looking at the same artwork.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yeah.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

So we're all staying in that same world. Like, if you start to drift or what you're looking. Oh, that's where we are. Oh, yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yeah.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It's. It ground the artwork.

[Koi Jondreau]

And for people like me that have it up here, it's really cool because we get to go like that. Same sounds like it looks like. I haven't had the audio. I've only had this now I've got the audio. So it adds this level, which is great.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

No conf.

[Koi Jondreau]

And the visual of Tim Sales art, to me is so important.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I want to get some of them blown up.

[Koi Jondreau]

So beautiful and, like, so unique. Like, his style is so specifically Tim Sale. But what I love about it is the. The animosity and passion and love. Like, all of that with Harvey. That's clear.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I know.

[Koi Jondreau]

And it's so unique because we don't Have a lot of time with them? No, but the time we have gives you all of this color for what happens.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Well, I think, like, that's something that is the bonus of comic books. Like, and this is from an outsider's point of view, what I notice that comic books tend to be mostly visual and there are words, but because the words are like so small and like a little bubble or here or there, the artwork is doing most of the talking for the words. So you're getting the story without necessarily needing to read. So when there are words, they're incredibly important. So getting an entire relationship point of view across in just these few words, they have to be the right words. And it was beautiful.

[Koi Jondreau]

And Jeff Loeb, I mean, what a. I mean a wordsmith. But I feel like the way he made Harvey is so impactful that the, the twist isn't just about the murder or the Batman element. It's about like a Harvey element as well. Like, and it's kind of an inversion of what you were talking about before of like, oh, Harvey's wife. So speaking of Harvey Dent's wife, but also, you know, this situation where he is the husband of a holiday killer, which adds a dynamic to even two faced. Who is the more known character in the greater universe. Is this it? Is this the killer, do you think? Is it solved? Is that everything from your perspective?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Well, first, I kind of think Gilda is also two faced. I mean, on one side she is this very strong woman who desperately wants to be a mother. Who desperately wants to be a mother and have a family and have a home and just be a great, great wife and just have that life. And then on the other side, she is a murdering psychopath. She's Two face.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yeah. Yeah, I love that.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

I've never even thought about that.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

They're kind of a husband and a wife duo.

[Koi Jondreau]

And they're kind of like the other's half. Yes. Which is the beauty of marriage.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

But not in this case completely. And they both think that they're doing the right thing.

[Koi Jondreau]

Right.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

So that's my, my, my first little take. And did you get. Oh, God. Okay. All right. I want to say yes, they did the right thing because I want guilty to get away because I like, I feel like, you know, one. She was just killing the bad guys.

[Koi Jondreau]

Yeah, she's.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Come on. She's just getting. She's getting rid of the guys.

[Koi Jondreau]

Staying down Batman to get back up.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah. Honestly, isn't that not what Batman is doing? He's just not killing them. He wants the back of the bad guys to all come out and serve for their time and their cruelty and all that thing. He's just not killing them. She's just like, I want the same thing. I'm just. I just want him dead.

[Koi Jondreau]

It's a permanent way to do the same job.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I mean, so. So I'm kind of like, you know, is she that bad of a character? She's not just, like, killing random people. She's not doing bombs or anything. It's very specific. True to. But at the same time, it's like, no, she got away. She got away for sure.

[Koi Jondreau]

For sure. But do you think that's morally the right. Like, I love how ambiguous this book is. I love how interpretive it is.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Don't you love my ambiguous answer?

[Koi Jondreau]

No.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

No, no.

[Koi Jondreau]

So do you have a as ambiguous two face, everyone? By the way, here is your answer. The duplicitousness of this character is really wonderful, but also, you talking about the different ways you played her, Were there moments in the booth that especially stood out once you knew the twist or. I love that you didn't mentally prepare for that. So it was like, waiting. But do you have any highlights from the booth where you were like, oh, that feels like the person that's been underneath that I was saving for the.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Beginning, I would say, I think, like, the third or fourth take of the monologue, she really started getting under my skin in a good way, which is, like, kind of weird saying, you know, she's a murderous killer. But, like, I really started to kind of feel like, oh, she's here. Which is so bizarre and very actory of me, which I always hate when I. But, like, there. There is this kind of, like, possession that happens when, like, it just. Everything just. Yeah, the words come together. Your voice is just in that sweet spot, and you're kind of like, I don't know how. I don't know what's going to keep coming out of my mouth and how it is, but, like, I'm in the zone. And I remember it was like, I can't third or fourth. But I remember in the moment it happening and being aware outside being like, oh, God, this is it. Like, this is it. Like, she's there. And, like. And it was very powerful. And I remember afterwards there was silence for a while, and I was very embarrassed, like, oh, no. I.

[Koi Jondreau]

Like, was that not.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It sounded like just too much or like, shoot. And it was just dead. It was like crickets. And I remember I had to be like, I could. I can do it again if that would, like, do. And they're like, no, that was. Wow, Marcel. That was, like, really powerful. And it just. It felt really amazing. And I was like, you know, that felt good. It felt really good. So I remember that. I also remember very different take of doing her first scene in the Halloween scene, opening the doors for the trick or treaters. We had when we were filming this. It was in October, right around Halloween, and we had just taken my new baby boy on, like, a practice trick or treating thing, like a couple days before we were recording this. And so, like, opening the door, like, talking to the trick or treaters was just so like, oh, my God, like, this is me as a mom doing this. And like, this woman wants to be a mom. And I just so, like, I was just so in it in a way. And I was able to be like, oh, gosh, if this was a year ago, before I was a mom doing this scene, I know I would have a different perspective.

[Koi Jondreau]

Wow, that's really cool that life reflected art in real time, but also that it was the season for that.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It was. Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

Like, everything came together for that to really be.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

But I really did feel it. Listen, we're actors. We can play. I can play anything. I can play a non mom, and I can play a mom, and it doesn't matter. But there was something to like me being a mom, playing this woman who desperately wants to be a mom, talking to these children. And like, there was something slightly different in how I was because I am a mom. Sorry to get all cheesy for your fault.

[Koi Jondreau]

No, that's. No, I love when art is able to reflect life to us.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

I remember that and I was just like, oh, my God, this just feels like, oh, I was here. I'm here. I know this, I know this. I can do this.

[Koi Jondreau]

I got this. And I love that the audience in the room had the same experience of your flow state. Like, that it all impacted you.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

Now, I assume my next question was about empathy for. For her, but I feel like, you know, clearly it's there. How much do you feel like you identified with the character at any stage? Or was it always like, once you figured it or once you were revealed the moment, like, did it all kind of click into place?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, no, I. I was. I had empathy for her from the beginning, just knowing that she was a woman who husband worked too much and she wanted a family and she's been waiting for a family and she wanted to be a mother. I'm also someone who was, like, wanted to be a mother. My Whole life and just, like, could not wait to be a mom. So immediately right off the bat, I was like, oh, that's my in. Yeah, that's my aunt. 100%. I get her. Yes, she may be quieter, she may be meek, whatever you want to call her, but she. And I, like, I get that. I know exactly where she's coming from, and I know what she wants and the pain that comes with wanting that and not getting it. And also knowing that the time with you men, you beautiful, lovely men do not need to experience this part, but us women, we do have a little going away. So knowing that she's going through that, and I went through that for so long in my life. Immediate empathy.

[Koi Jondreau]

It shows in the work. It really affects the performance in a way that I love the comic, obviously, but there's a. A nest that can't translate in the emotion of all those sensibilities. Like many are translated in Tim Sales Art and. And Jeff's work. But there's such a layer of, like, Jason's work as Batman. The discovery of the bat voice, by the way.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, my God.

[Koi Jondreau]

But you get to feel the discovery in a way that you. The two black and white colors can't quite but like the feeling.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And.

[Koi Jondreau]

And I got that out of the emotion for the motherhood. I got that out of the. The yearning. And that was really wonderful.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

So thank you. Thank you.

[Koi Jondreau]

My last question, I had the mom boat. I felt, and I got like a young mom. Me and my mom really close.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh.

[Koi Jondreau]

So, like, I've always had, like, that. That mama's boy.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

After this interview, go call your mother.

[Koi Jondreau]

With Gilda being a character that is so impactful along Halloween and the long Halloween being so impactful to Batman, but in my opinion, Gilda not being like a top, like, people don't go, oh, Batman's Gilda.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

It's a crime.

[Koi Jondreau]

That's what I'm saying. Like, it's. It's a character of import.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

When we finished and I had read through it all and finished recording, I asked my fiance. I was like, why have I not heard about this? Why have I not seen this? Why has it not been made word for word?

[Koi Jondreau]

This is how comic fans have felt for a very long time.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Really.

[Koi Jondreau]

I think it's really interesting because this is now word for word. It was waiting for you to get to it. But I think the Long Halloween is one of those stories that you see pieces of everywhere. Batman. It's one of those really formative stories that you'll see. I mean, Nolan wrote the Forward to this edition. Like no, like the Dark Knight has. If you think about Harvey Dent, Gordon and Bruce Wayne or Batman in that case on the roof that is long Halloween. If you think about Falcone. So like when you think of the story now you can start to see it's sprinkling.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah, they take pieces of it.

[Koi Jondreau]

But like the opening of the Batman with the new and the Pattinson one.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Him reading like I get that and when I saw it I was like oh there's definitely pieces for sure. But like this the entire book, it's so good as a whole. It's so beautiful. And why hasn't someone just taken it and you're like we're going to take this story, not bits and pieces and put it into something else. Why are we not going to take this story and create this anime?

[Koi Jondreau]

There's an animated two parter that is. That is a loose adaptation that is very good.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Okay.

[Koi Jondreau]

This is word for word for a reason. Because the people in my opinion the people that have waited for this, they want it are the team that made this like like we are the nerds that are like give us the long Halloween. So I think what's happening is you as a fan of Batman and the casual nature of knowing Batman have now reached the level where the ne have been fighting and so welcome. It's awful but now we've done it so now it's peaceful. As of this release of this last week more I know and but hey that's we're making it happen. We're chipping away. I hope so no one is the start and then us I that almost answers my question without me having to ask. But what do you want people to take away from Gilda now that the twist this they the last thing they heard was that reveal. How do you want people to walk away feeling about Gilda now?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Maybe a little bit of empathy for her if they were just thinking oh this cold blooded killer. Oh maybe just a little bit empathy of where she was coming from again. Remember she's. She's killing bad guys. Bad guys. They're not good guys. So you know there's a little bit of like I feel like she gets a little leeway there maybe I don't know.

[Koi Jondreau]

Robin Hood approach to murder.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah, to murder. She is still murdering people. But just don't judge a book by its cover. You never know what someone. You never know what someone's plight is. You never know what they are experiencing inside, what hard day they're having or what a great time. You just don't. You don't know. Yeah. And also, like, leave room, leave space for the quiet ones.

[Koi Jondreau]

Oh, I like that. I'm glad I said that for the end. I like that a lot. That's perfect. Well, no better note to end it on. Leave some space. Call your moms, call your mom. People are all going through something. Make sure to give them their reverence and space. Absolutely love talking to you, Marcella. That was such a pleasure.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

This was so fun. This was great and loved your work.

[Koi Jondreau]

Thank you for bringing so much. This character.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Oh, I really appreciate that.

[Koi Jondreau]

I want to thank Marcella Lentz Pope for joining us today. I love that conversation. I loved her energy. That was such a genuine blast. It's so crazy how big of an energy she has and how somehow small and contained the character feels, even over audio and how important that is for the portrayal and the mystery, everything. It was a lovely conversation. Now let's bring out Harvey Dent, the other side of that dynamic duo. Adam o', Byrne.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies just to see if you could save some cash? Well, Progressive makes it easy. Just drop in some details about yourself and see if you're eligible to save money when you bundle your home and auto policies. The process only takes minutes and it could mean hundreds more in your pocket. Visit progressive.com after this episode to see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states on WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Koi Jondreau]

I am honored to welcome Adam o'. Byrne. You might know him from lessons in chemistry on Apple. He is our Harvey Dent. And now, now he is our two face. How are you, man?

[Jeff Loeb]

I'm great.

[Adam O'Byrne]

How are you?

[Koi Jondreau]

It is. It is an honor to welcome both of you. It is a long time coming. What a journey.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

This character is so impactful and large and. And such a big moment in Batman mythos, but he's also such a pop cultural icon. Separate, like he's a known entity. But I'm curious, how did you come into this project and what was that like having him as a known entity and then developing your Take on him.

[Jeff Loeb]

Sure. So I am of the age where my Batman is Michael Keaton. I remember being a kid and going to the theater for a friend's birthday party to see the first Michael Keaton, Batman, Jack Nicholson. And so that era really was the. For me. I mean, I don't know how old I was at the time, but that was really. Those movies up through, I guess, through the. I guess the two Keaton ones, the Val one and then the Clooney one, those were the movies. That's how I got into Batman, really. And so, I mean, like anybody, you know, you're sort of always defined, I think, by the. The initial one, the big. The hook, you know, and, you know, and I guess it's the. Is it the third one that two Face makes an appearance?

[Koi Jondreau]

Yes. He was originally supposed to be Billy Dee Williams when they were gonna make a third one.

[Jeff Loeb]

Right, Exactly. Yeah.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

So Tommy Lee.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, so Tommy Lee did it in a very sort of over the top, kind of fantastic performance. That guy is unbelievable, obviously, but that was sort of my first initial exposure to that character. And then, you know, and then obviously, Aaron Eckhart's in the. In the films, which is, again, absolutely wonderful. And so those were the things that were kind of pinging around when I got the audition. And, you know, I confess that I was not that I didn't. You know, you come into these things, you read them, and you're just sort of trying to kind of fall back on your actor training and just like, I'm gonna play these scenes and try and find the truth of who this guy is. And, yeah, I mean, I didn't. You know, I'd read the Long Halloween probably around. When was it? 95. Yeah. Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

30Th. This year.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So I had read it, I would imagine, somewhere around there, like when I would have been end of high school, beginning of college, and I'm sure I remember. So I was vaguely familiar with the story and I knew what was happening. And I think really what I wanted to do in the audition particularly was just kind of, as I say, find the truth of what this guy's going through. And I think it's a. The reason, I think that it has such resonance and has been around for so long as we're talking about is that it is a. It is somebody who is fighting the good fight, who believes in something, who has some kind of moral integrity, and that moral integrity is aggressively challenged by the circumstances in which he finds himself. So that is a really interesting Thing to explore as a performer. And then also, of course, we're doing this in a different medium. We're doing it in audio form. And that was new and exciting. Yeah, it was a blast to dive into. It's such a cool role, and the story is wonderful. So it was very easy to. It was an easy pool to dive into, for sure.

[Koi Jondreau]

The character has always fascinated me, and it's always been one of the characters that I feel like it'd be a dream as an actor. Because comics, to me, are this Trojan horse of morality. They're this way to look at ethics and how you choose to be and present yourself. And then a lot of the Cape comics have an alter ego. And Two Face, to me, is the definition of all of that. He's morals and ethics, and he's visually the thing that makes comics interest. Interesting, for sure. So as an actor, when you're playing two sides of a literal coin, that is the metaphor of a coin that is having all these layers, where do you start? Like, how do you go, okay, this is a lot to unpack. I could go mad finding the madness or the morality. What's day one look like? And trying to develop them.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, I think it was really just figuring Harvey out before and just understanding what it means to feel passionately about public service. What it means to feel passionately about the place that you live and the people that you serve. And when that is going sideways, what do you feel you have to do? I mean, that's the thing I think is so compelling about Harvey, is that he just. He really cares about Gotham. He cares about how it's gone askew or how things are, like, have drifted away from the ideals that he wants it to represent. And so I think that that's where I. That was the easy end for me, really, is just kind of figured that this guy really cares about this place. He wants this place. He doesn't want it overrun by crime. He doesn't want. He wants people to be able to live safely and happily and flourish. And so when you find that that's. You sort of ground it there and then, honestly, like, the easy part is sort of taking the other side of that. Because I think what's interesting about Harvey and Two Face is that the things they believe in, in a way, are the same, but the means of getting there are obviously very different. There's a moral integrity to Harvey that this is. You play thing. You do things this way. I mean, that's not to say that he doesn't. I mean, there's Wonderful writing where he's sort of dripping in cynic, which is fantastic. You know, there's something really enjoyable about that. A guy who's like, really cares, but also just goes, oh, this is such a pain in the ass. Like, everything's screwed up. How am I going to deal with this? You know, I'm standing on a roof of a building talking.

[Koi Jondreau]

Exactly. There's one good cop.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, exactly. We have one good police officer and a guy in costume and, you know, costume vigilante.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And you're like, oh, God, what have.

[Jeff Loeb]

I got myself into?

[Koi Jondreau]

I went to law school.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, exactly. But I think then. So really, what's the sort of tragedy of the man is that he gives into the temptation, Right. To say, like, no, there is a different. There's an easy way to solve all my problems, and that is to turn my back on the things that I think are sort of the spine of my own morals and ethics. And. Yeah, I mean, I think that was the. That was the path that I took, such as it is, to. To finding the. To finding where we are.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

And did you feel that transformation, like, as a performer when you're performing the. The Harvey Dent versus letting the cynicism take over? This is so Shakespearean in that there's a physical attribute, there's an actual act that occurs when you're performing. If you're actually in the booth going through that, does it feel physically different to be one post scarring?

[Jeff Loeb]

Absolutely. And I think it's. If there was just a silent film of me in that booth, it would have been very, very funny because you are sort of going through these physical changes. And I mean, one of the things that. Obviously, the only instrument that you have to express what's going on is your voice. And so you are trying to manipulate yourself physically. You're trying to. You know, I'm sure I was standing up straighter and. And trying to you know, get a sort of more. Yeah, a bit of a deeper resonance. I mean, I would say that, like, from. From purely technical standpoint, like, my Harvey was sort of. I would say I felt more, like, chesty a little bit. Like, I kind of was like, he's leading with his chest. He's a very proud guy. And then. And then. And then two face sort of got into the rasp of, like, an injured. You know, I sort of thought about the injury to his. You know, because I think if you. When you look at the comic, it's sort of like it's all kind of down into his neck and everything. And I think that that's, you know, you just sort of think of like, I mean, really people have had any kind of, any kind of injuries. They talk about referred pain, you know, where. So you're holding tension here and then it's going to affect the other side and then it's going to like, you know, make your voice sound. Yeah, I mean that's not to say that I'm. That I was. I mean, I guess what I'm saying is I was using my imagination to see how that would be.

[Koi Jondreau]

Reflect.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Exactly.

[Koi Jondreau]

So we're drinking hot coffee.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, exactly. But you know, I think when you're in the booth you sort of have to just. You're just doing your best to be truthful to those lines and then trust that the. Everybody on the. Who's helping from the outside is going to steer you in the right direction. Serve as those guardrails.

[Koi Jondreau]

So, so yeah, the, the trifecta on the rooftop is one of the most iconic scenes. To me. We spoke of it briefly a second ago, but to me that's like, like what Batman is because that's what Harvey is, because that's what Jim is. And, and that's such a, an interesting dynamic of they all want the same thing, all three of them. Five of them, if you count two. Face and Batman as separate entities to Bruce, like there's an army up there of ideals. But the relationship between them is what makes this story so interesting for me. Of they all trust in the other to a point, but they all have different landings of what they want that to mean.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

How did you develop that relationship since you didn't get to actually, you know, work with the. You had the words, but you don't get the emotion until you get to hear it pieced together.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, I mean I think that the. Start with the words, that's very important. You sort of look at the scene and how it's structured and you're absolutely right that there's that. That idea of this triumvirate of shared, somewhat shared like Venn diagram vision of what the city can be and should be. I mean, I think that's the one thing is that they really share an understanding of the problem. I think they're probably all looking at it from different points of view. So in that sense it's a very three dimensional problem for them. And I think their point of view is significant in their understanding of it. And I think one of the things that they're probably not very good at and I talked a little bit about this when we were prepping is that I think they're very bad. Batman's maybe the best, but the other two are very bad at acknowledging the perspective of the others. So they're very sort of like, this is the only place that I can look at this mountain from. You know what I mean?

[Koi Jondreau]

And so one thing we can do. I don't know.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, yeah. So that, I think was one of the things that, you know, this idea of. I'm happy I'm here with these other two guys. I really wish they saw it my way because what they're talking about is stupid or just not stupid, but just not productive to solving the problem. And I think that that's kind of the fun tension there. Because they're not. Because I think also there is a mutual respect. There is a. Because they have a shared ideal. They have a level of respect. I think your word that you used coy when you said that the trust only goes so far. I think that's really key because I think that's where it, you know, ultimately kind of breaks down. That they. Because they can't maybe share enough of each other's perspective, they don't quite have that trust that is necessary to. To form a lasting partnership and a.

[Koi Jondreau]

Way that they can actually lean each other enough to actually be productive. I've always liked the idea that, like, what they could have done, who they could have been. And now thinking about it, I mentioned five of them on the roof. But in this story of all, it almost feels like this. In year one, Jim Gordon's almost two men, like who he is at home versus.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

All these men are hiding something.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

So how do you trust that?

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the tragedy of the. Of the story, really, that, that, you know, there's. There is great potential there in. In that moment. And. And to see it dashed, I think takes something. Obviously takes an enormous amount from Harvey, but I think. I think it's. It weighs on the other two as well.

[Koi Jondreau]

And I. I think the Long Halloween in particular is so minable for this psychology. And I think that's why we see it adapted or pieces of it adapted in so many ways. And to see it, for me in the animated two parter was already a dream. But to see it adapted here so literally, like to see word to word.

[Jeff Loeb]

Right.

[Koi Jondreau]

We're getting the experience of it. And I think the reason it can be is because it's. As we're discussing, there's different ways to play it. Like you can play Gilda different ways. And she's still authentic to her. And there are ways to play Two Face. And one of the things I loved about your take is that there's this empathy for the madness. There's this like you're not playing him mad, you're playing him in a way that you can feel the reserved. But it's not toning him down. It's a really fine line of like.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

Holding something back. And I think that's an interesting take on the other side of Two Face because of how much you see them as one. Like, you're right, the brain isn't different.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

It's just the impulse control or whatever.

[Jeff Loeb]

Broken one thing.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Loeb]

Takes over and, and. But yeah, I think that at its core it's the same guy and he just. Yeah. He just can't. I think, as I said, I think there's elements of the cynicism and the way the cynicism leads to nihilism or leads to real fury about. You know, it's sort of that again, you know, we keep coming back to that rooftop scene. But the sort of the resignation that he has as Harvey of like, God, I guess this is my job to when. When. When he becomes two faced that, that, that it is that there's sort of righteous anger about that. That is my job. That this is what has happened to the thing that I care so much about. And I'm gonna do something about it in a way that Harvey maybe would be.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Jeff Loeb]

More reserved about doing and sort of just complaining and sighing heavily or whatever.

[Adam O'Byrne]

But.

[Jeff Loeb]

But yeah, yeah, I think that's, that's absolutely right.

[Koi Jondreau]

And now that we've got to this point in the story, it feels like the time to ask the question because it's not as spoilery because we know. Are there any highlights from the booth? Any moments that you remember that you're really like, ah, that was it. I found the guy. Either one of them. But like found the moment that you connected fully to 2Face or Harvey.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, I mean I was writhing around on the floor at one point, which was, you know, when I got. When he's. When he's attacked. And it was, that was pretty fantastic. But also, you know, you know, in a way like, I think that kind of clued me in because they, I mean I was writhing around, literally like screaming, writhing, going down to the ground. And I was like, what is happening? At some point you're like, what am I doing? You look around, you're like in this tiny booth. Yeah. What is happening? But it really. I think one of the things that it did do in a good way. Cause I really let myself do it. Was that it brought home the trauma of that event and how. How that contributed. You start thinking like, oh, wow, this is not. This is a real. There's real pain here. Physical pain, but also psychological pain that has created this bifurcated guy. And so that moment really stuck out to me, I would say, quite a bit.

[Koi Jondreau]

One of the things I've always appreciated is that impact of the moment. I love that you felt that to use in your work of that would be a traumatic experience in all the ways. Because it isn't just a Tuesday. That's. His life is forever changed. But then Gotham is forever changed. And I'd love to know, as my last question for you, reflecting on your time as Harvey Dent and Two Face and with the character having such an impact, what would you hope people take away as, like, your take? What did you want to imbue that you hope people walk away with as your Harvey Dent?

[Jeff Loeb]

Well, I mean, that's it for.

[Koi Jondreau]

The most loaded question. No, I mean, it's great.

[Jeff Loeb]

But I mean, honestly, I think that the thing that I felt most about him is again, getting into it and realizing how well crafted this character is that you're not really needing as an actor to put anything on it in the sense that if you trace it chronologically through the story, it's not some crazy. Like, I'm a bad guy. Yeah, right. It's a very much like a human thing. And I think that if that's what I hope is clear about all the characters, that this is, again, that this is something that is. It is a really wonderful reflection of humanity that we're seeing in all of these different people. It's a really human. Are really. These are true feelings that I hope people can identify with a lot of the aspects of Harvey and then also some of the aspects of Two Face because that. I mean, I don't want people necessarily to identify with the violence, but certainly the urge to rip it all down, the urge to say enough is enough. These are things that I think make him a compelling character and somebody that.

[Koi Jondreau]

And it's true.

[Jeff Loeb]

Look, it is obviously true for me, having played this part, but I think what it's done for me about the whole universe of Batman and the quote unquote, bad guys is that you do start to appreciate how human they are.

[Koi Jondreau]

And how they ended up in that.

[Jeff Loeb]

Position that wouldn't have gotten exactly that. You're not like, oh, these are just these sort of literally cartoon foils to our. To our hero. They are other sides. They are other parts of the human experience. And I just think having all their own tragedies and personal hang ups and peccadillos that really lead them where they, obviously they don't go down a great road in their lives, but a lot of people don't go down a great road in their lives.

[Koi Jondreau]

Gotham sets you up for that. Exactly. I love that Gotham is this great equalizer of like, well, we kind of get it. And for me, 2face is always that question of, like, what if Batman used his money to fix the city? What if he got into politics and tried to do it the right way?

[Adam O'Byrne]

Right.

[Koi Jondreau]

And it falling apart always was like, well, that's why he has to be Batman.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

So to me, Two Face was like. And then when he broke, I loved that your performance. Felt like, I got to live that elseworld like that. Like, oh, and this is why the politics side can't work in Gotham.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yeah.

[Koi Jondreau]

And a great performance, really great experience. Really loved it, man.

[Jeff Loeb]

Thank you very much. This was fun. I had a great time. I mean, it's a wonderful, wonderful project that sort of was a. Was a delightful surprise for me and I. I had so much fun.

[Koi Jondreau]

So since you record this in isolation, there's a character you interact with, and I don't know if you know who that is. In our, like, real canon, there's a person you murder in the hospital, and it's a doctor.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Okay.

[Koi Jondreau]

Do you remember the scene?

[Jeff Loeb]

Yes, I do.

[Koi Jondreau]

So he has that dramatic line like, he's gone. Yeah, that's going to be Jeph Loeb, the writer of the Long Halloween.

[Jeff Loeb]

No way.

[Koi Jondreau]

So you get to take out your creator. That is.

[Jeff Loeb]

That's incredible how that's so fun.

[Koi Jondreau]

Adding to the Shakespeare you were taking out.

[Jeff Loeb]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam O'Byrne]

That's so great.

[Koi Jondreau]

And next up, we've got Jeph Loeb.

[Jeff Loeb]

Oh, well, I mean, got to tune in for that.

[Koi Jondreau]

You heard me right. I'm so excited. I got to have that moment revealing who Jeph Loeb is playing to the man who killed him, Adam o'.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Byrne.

[Koi Jondreau]

I love talking psychology with him. It was a really special conversation about a character I've always been fascinated by the psychology of. I love when actors really look beneath the surface, especially of a character who's very beneath the surface. Halfway. And it's so dynamic to find a portrayal like his. Wonderful conversation. I want to thank Adam once again. And now let's bring out the man who wrote that very portrayal, the man who made this story 30 years ago and continues to make some of my favorite Batman stories of all time. The one and only Jeph Loeb. Not all meals are created equal. For instance, breakfast has a spicy egg.

[Adam O'Byrne]

McMuffin for a limited time and lunch doesn't. McDonald's Breakfast.

[Koi Jondreau]

Pro savings Days are back at Lowe's right now. Get a four piece GE kitchen suite for under $2,000 plus get a free DeWalt 20 volt max XR hour battery when you buy a select DeWalt tool. Save big with deals that work as hard as you do. Shop Pro Savings Days in store or online. Today Lowe's we help you Save valid through 8. One selection varies by location while supplies last. Discount taking the time of purchase. See Sales Associate for details. I am sitting down with a man who needs no introduction, but I will give him one because he has brought me some of my favorite comic books. Books with both Long Halloween and Hush and currently last Halloween and hush.

[Adam O'Byrne]

2.

[Koi Jondreau]

He has brought me some of my favorite adaptations with Smallville and Daredevil and so many other things. He has brought me some of my favorite movies with Commando and Teen Wolf. The great Jeff Loeb. How are you, man?

[Adam O'Byrne]

Thank you. That was quite an intro. I was hoping you were going to say and he brings me my lunch so that that part would be.

[Koi Jondreau]

That's next. I can add it to the next interview now. I adore Long Halloween. I think it's one of the most formative comics in the history of comic books.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Thank you.

[Koi Jondreau]

It is. That's quite a truly iconic because it's a thing that we see adapted and people that don't know Batman know Long Halloween, even anecdotally. And I'd love to know what the process was of bringing that book together for the first time with Tim Sale. How did that collaboration land Long Halloween?

[Adam O'Byrne]

We actually before then had done three Halloween specials. And every time I did one, I thought, well, that's it. I'm not gonna be doing Batman ever again. So that was fun. And that was largely because I was working on television shows while I was writing comics. We had done the three Halloween specials and the late great Archie Goodwin, who unequivocally to me is, was, will always be the best editor at DC and at Marvel because he was, is, will always be the best writer who worked in comics. And so he approached everything from a story point of view. And Archie was in California and Tim was in California. And in fact, now that I'm thinking about it, we probably were at San Diego at the Comic Con and Archie Said, can I have breakfast with you guys? And I literally, just. Because I'm an idiot, I had no idea what it was about. I just thought he'd just want to have breakfast.

[Jeff Loeb]

So.

[Adam O'Byrne]

So we sat down and Archie said, do you have any interest in doing more? And I said, archie, look, we have this conversation every year. I can handle about 48 pages. I don't really think there's another story in me. And he said, oh, well, I always liked what you did with gangsters. And I, at the time, I'm thinking to myself, I love gangsters. And obviously, because you can tell, I've watched the Godfather about a million times and Godfather II about a million, two times. And so I'm thinking to myself, I would love to write gangsters, but I don't know what this man is talking about. I don't think I've ever written gangsters. And then he dropped the card. He had the ace in his hand, and he just was like, this is 21 right now. He says, so I was talking to Frank, and there's only one Frank. You don't have to say anything more. If you're talking Batman, it's Frank Miller. He said, I was talking to Frank and I said to him, the characters that are in year one, the peripheral characters, do you plan on revisiting any of them?

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

Them?

[Adam O'Byrne]

And Frank said, no, if someone wants to take a story about Carmine Falcone, then please go and do that. And I went, what? And he said, yeah. He just said, you can have anybody in the book. Wow. And obviously Gordon and Batman and Bruce were already there and Catwoman were there. But Frank created the idea of what. What organized crime looked like. We always heard about it, but in the first Batman stories, the Joker was in the first Batman story. So what happened before then? And all of that is in year one. So anyway, now cutting back to this breakfast. So he says, I think that there's a story in you that's more than 48 pages. I think there's a story that could be longer, I don't know how long, but. But just think about it and think about those characters. And I sat literally through the rest of the breakfast going. He just sort of handed me the keys to the Batman kingdom in year one.

[Koi Jondreau]

Those are pocket aces. That's incredible.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And I was like, how am I gonna say no to this? So went home, started thinking about it. The original proposal was actually in the absolute edition. It's like a 10 page outline of which very little is what the story is. But one of the key things was that there was no holiday. It was Calendar Man. And I thought that'd be cool. We could tell a story about how Calendar man, when he was younger, was a serial killer. And then as he got older, he turned into something else. And Archie called and said, you can do it if that's what you want to do, but I think you have an opportunity to create your own villain and be part of the mythos in your own way. I suddenly realized this was gonna be this opportunity to tell this murder mystery. And in fairness, there were some other people, because nothing happens in a vacuum. I love the idea of it going from October to October, and the first holiday would be Halloween, and so it would end on Halloween. That seemed like a good idea. And it was Mike Friedrich, who, at the time was. He's a writer of some note. At the time, he was an agent for Tim. And he said, I think the two bookends should be 48 pages. And I was like, wow, okay, that's a super cool idea. But now that means we're going to do 15 stories, not even 12, because people forget if you do October and have another October, that's an extra month.

[Koi Jondreau]

13 months. Not yet.

[Adam O'Byrne]

It's 13 months. Of course, Math and I are not friends, so of course I was like, sure. And so it became that. And then the other key person that I have to give a shout out to is I ran into Mark Waid. Literally, I can't remember where, but it was like a diner. Like, it was the strangest thing. And he said, I hear you're doing something with year one. This is before I'd even started. And I went, yeah. And he said, well, I hope you're gonna do something with Harvey Dennis. And I was like, why? And he goes, because nobody has. And we all know that he went into the courtroom and got acid thrown in his face. But I'm just throwing that out to you. And it's sudden. And at the same time, I had watched a documentary on the Beatles, and Tim and I both had. Tim and I were very different people, but we both had the same love of the Beatles and a lot of music and things like that. And I watched this thing, and what I watched was that here were four very different people who came together for a purpose. And then it fell apart. And why it fell apart. There's a lot of theories. But I looked at that, and I went, wow. I have Batman, Bruce, Because I do consider they're different characters, Gordon and Harvey Dent. And what will break them apart is that Harvey becomes the very Thing that they were fighting to keep from happening. He turns bad and it suddenly was there. Suddenly it became the Long Halloween. And I was so concerned about whether or not anyone was gonna care about the murder mystery. Like, I really. Because I'd never really written a detective story before. I mean, I, I know Batman has to go solve a crime, but a murder mystery is a very different. You have to have all kinds of people that are suspects. And then you have to try to like, fool the reader. And if the reader gets ahead of you, or if the reader on page five goes, well, it clearly, it's Fred. Well, you're kind of screwed. You have to like you. No, I have a year's worth of stories like, what are we going to do? And we had a guy that was in the shadows who didn't talk. So there were very few clues and he shot other bad guys. So it was sort of, it was like, okay, so you just introduced Milos, the guy that's the bodyguard, and then you shot him. Like, I could see people, like putting down the book and going, I don't really care about that part of the story. And so Harvey's story was originally supposed to like, two Face was supposed to be in and issue three. But as time went by, I kept sort of finding, oh, there's this whole other thing that I could play with. And I kept moving it further and further away. So that's how that happened. And I'm not sure what question I'm answering.

[Koi Jondreau]

You answered a few of my questions. No, we've been on a journey.

[Adam O'Byrne]

That's kind of how it sort of began.

[Koi Jondreau]

Incredible. I've wondered that personally for years and I've known some of the ingredients, but seeing the cake come together, that's wonderful.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Well, it's also. What's weird is that you, you don't know unless you are working on a project, when the first issue comes out, you're on issue seven or eight. Yeah, it's drawn, it's lettered. Like there's nothing you can do. And so I do my best to sort of go, well, we're off to the races. But I've been very lucky. And I think a lot of that has to do with the talented artists that I worked with.

[Koi Jondreau]

Speaking of, your collaborations with Tim Sale have brought us not just this incredible, long lasting story, but. But I personally am a huge fan of what you did with Spider man, what you've done with Daredevil Yellow, what even Catwoman, when in Rome is such a way to elaborate on that character. There's this depth that happens when you work together. There's this adding of layers to these characters. What was your workflow like that allowed that level of nuance to come, whether it's a short or long form story.

[Adam O'Byrne]

You know, people talk about. First of all, we're talking about somebody who was one of my. My closest friends and who I considered my partner in many ways and who I knew my entire comic book career. Like, he was the first guy I ever did anything with. And I literally thought that the Halloween special, which has become the Last Halloween zero, would be. It was either we were doing the last Halloween together or after he passed, I thought, well, that's the end of that. We're never gonna do another thing together. And it was a nice sort of bookend to our careers. But, you know, this is a guy who. He had a love of art and a love of music. And we're both incredible romantics. Like, you know, either one of us would watch Casablanca and call up the other one and go, why couldn't they get together in the end? And that kind of thing made us laugh. But the best way I was thinking about this, because I knew we were going to be talking to each other, and the best way that I can describe it is that we were so close that it wasn't like we finished each other's sentences. But what he did was he finished my thought in art. So I would write a scene and he would draw it and it would have a life to it. That was completely his point of view, but very much what I wrote. And that was the most exciting thing that we ever did. And on the Long Halloween, at that point, we had done about 200 pages together and.

[Marcella Lentz Pope]

And.

[Adam O'Byrne]

You sort of get to know what a person's strength is and what their isn't. I'm amazed I went back, particularly when I heard that they were gonna do an audio version of this. I went back and I read the book. And I was surprised how much. What Tim really taught me was set the scene, make sure that the audience knows where everybody is and what the setting is, and then don't worry about it. Go close on the character and drop out the background. Nobody cares. Nobody needs to see the window behind them. They don't need to know where they.

[Jeff Loeb]

Are in the room.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And that helped me enormously because it enabled me to go, oh, I could put more dialogue in here because I'm not really covering up any of the artwork. And he has told me where everything's going to be because I think very cinematically and that really helps us when working together.

[Koi Jondreau]

There's a romanticism to his art I've always really loved. And Spider Man Blue is what really made me fall in love with those characters. And then rereading this over and over again over the years, there's such a romance to the crime. There's such a, A sweeping ness that feels like classic film. With his work being so dynamic and you talking about the musicality of your writing, when you got those pages, did you feel that same rhythm that that you felt when you were writing, seeing the musicality?

[Adam O'Byrne]

I, I, I was talking about this earlier. I tend to write as though it is a symphony. I think it's important. I think there's a rhythm to the page. And it's one of the reasons why I really like artists who draw in order because I think it gives them an opportunity to see, oh, this needs to be quiet. And then all of a sudden, boom. You can't just have, like, a splash page that suddenly comes out of nowhere. It has to build to where that is or a double page spread. And I knew Tim's rhythms really well, and so I knew how to build a story that would do that. And very rarely, but sometimes Tim would go, I need another panel here. I need, in music terms, I need another beat before I can get to the next panel in order to explain what's going on here or just to give it an emotion. One of the things that I love about Tim's artwork is silence works for him in a big way. And so Catwoman would say something, and rather than having Batman say something back to her, we would just have Batman look down, and that would say more than whatever clever line I thought I was gonna come up with. On the other hand, I really do enjoy writing Catwoman. So she just blathers all over the place, and, and that kind of banter is just great fun. And when you can have that kind of romantic banter, it can be fun. But it also look, in many ways, it's a story about a family, and it is the opposite story of the Wayne family, which is Bruce never really gets to know what it's like to know his parents as an adult. He watched them be murdered. And on the other side of the story, the Falcone family is one where Carmine is this enormous figure who had three kids. You don't get to know Mario as well as you do when you get to Dark Victory, but it really is about how Alberto wanted so much to matter. It's the opposite of Marco Corleone in the sense that Vito Corleone never wanted Michael to be part of the business. And Michael, because he knew in his heart that Michael would be the most dangerous man alive. And he wanted to keep him out of that world. And I looked at it and went, and wouldn't it be interesting if the youngest son was in fact a complete failure in his father's eyes? And what could he do to live in that world? And he became the very thing his father hated, which was to become a freak, a villain. One of those.

[Koi Jondreau]

The other side of the world.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Yes, the other side. And that really interested me. And then how that then perverted Sophia, who was kind of a monster from the beginning. It's just a family of incredible grossness in terms of what they were doing. But you had to be that way in order to control Gotham City, because. Because I've always believed that. Say what you want about the Falcone family, Gotham City was a corrupt. Cops were corrupt. Everything that was going on was corrupt. But it was organized. They knew what they were doing and they had business doing it. And that's all that mattered, was that it was good for business or it was bad for business. That's how they made decisions. Now, you bring in a character like the Joker who doesn't care whether or not it's good for business or bad for business. He's just there to create chaos. And so you realize that these are really two different ways. And the real question is, will Gotham City survive? Can it, after for so long being this corrupt place, now suddenly deal with the fact that it has this ungo bongo kind of mentality running around that includes murders that don't have any kind of reason for them other than to give Batman something to work on. And that's always the magic question, which is, if Batman didn't exist, would the escalation have happened? Would the freaks exist? Did it open the door for them? Or was that the natural progression of what was going to happen? Because whenever you have any kind of organized situation, chaos is going to break out. It just is. And so I. That's why I can never blame Batman for the Joker or for Two Face or any of those people. It was inevitable to happen. Thank goodness Batman was there in order to stop it from becoming whatever the next step is now.

[Koi Jondreau]

I love the idea of orchestration. I love the idea of you seeing these characters as almost instruments that come together for this sound. This experience high volume is that experience of making sound and these suites out of these characters. It gives me an almost synesthesia when I'm hearing It. Because I have such an amount of Tim Sale art in my mind. I've read it so many times. I have this movement that happens when you hear these suites. Does it feel like the characters to you when you hear it as an audio version? What's that like?

[Adam O'Byrne]

Always different when you see it in another medium, because they exist in their own world. And so when I found out about an audiobook version of this, I thought, well, I have no idea how that's gonna work because it's such a visual medium. How can it paint itself into that? And then I started listening to it, and, you know, it's just another way. It's a use of sound. And then the most important part is it's cast brilliantly. I mean, to the point where Jeph Loeb has a part in it. But it's. So everyone who plays the role does sort of sound like I had it in my head. And that's just good voice casting and great acting. When I first got the call and they said, look, we're going to do Batman audio Batman high volume. I was like, okay, what's that got to do with me? And then they said, we're going to do Batman Year One, I was like, oh, cool. You know, are they gonna ask me to do a voice like, still, Am I gonna be Commissioner Loeb? That'll be awesome. Which, by the way, folks, just so we're clear, I did not name him Commissioner Loeb. And when I took over Long Halloween, Archie said to me, do you wanna change his name? That was something that Frank did. I think it was a wink from Frank, but it's weird because I don't know how he really sort of was aware of us at that point, but I did get to kill him. And that is on me. That part was fun.

[Koi Jondreau]

I've wondered for years, the chicken and egg of that death.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And so, yeah, and I love the way that Medicelli drew him because he was like this little. Like, his face looked like a potato that had been mashed. And I went, well, I guess that's how he sees me. But again, getting back to sound and the voices and the. The story, it just all came together. And so then they let the cat out of the bag, which was, we're not only going to do Long Halloween, we're also going to do Dark Victory. And of course, me being me, rather than saying, thank you and can I help in any way, I immediately went to, are you going to do Catwoman and Rome? Are you going to do the prequels? Are you going to do. I'm also going to be writing a sequel called the Last Halloween. You could do that one. Are you gonna do Hush? Are you gonna do Hush too? And I can't imagine the person on the phone just going, who is this guy? I just called him to tell him that we're doing Long Halloween and Dark Victory. He should be doing jumping jacks at this point, or cartwheels or whatever it is people do. And in fact, I was doing that. I was so excited that this was now going to live in yet another medium. So it's now been this book that Tim And I did 35 years ago, I think now. I mean, when I think about that, it's just. It's crazy. It's 95. So what is 30 years ago? We just did the 30th edition. The fact that it's still published. Let's start there.

[Koi Jondreau]

And republished and added to with Forbes. Christopher Nolman.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Exactly. But that it also exists as an animated movie. Two animated movies. And then it's in the real movies. And now it's this audiobook, high volume, like, have at it, guys. Just go make this whatever it's going to be. And what's really interesting to me is that how protective D.C. has been at sort of saying that Long Halloween World and those characters are Jeff and Tim's. Like, don't start telling a story that uses those characters. It wasn't intended for that. And because every time we finished one, we went, well, that's it, we're done. And. And. But we get dragged back into and tell the story. But I mean, unless something miraculous happens and I don't see it, the Last Halloween is the end of the story. It's intended to be the end of the story.

[Koi Jondreau]

And for me, the use of the gangsters you talked about informing the story and all of those elements remind me of the radio play era. So it was really interesting. When I've seen this in so many mediums. This one, I was like, oh, well, that makes sense. Like, it felt like such a linear. Like, oh, a radio with gangsters. This is totally a thing, Right?

[Adam O'Byrne]

Exactly. It's the shadow. You know, it's that kind of world.

[Koi Jondreau]

And I love that Batman got to have the format that feels so Batman that I hadn't yet gotten to experience. Like, it seems like a word.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Part of it is that, you know, and Tim used to talk about this all the time, which is that even though the story is in continuity and even though the story is in year one, even though there are. I don't know, 16 Halloweens.

[Jeff Loeb]

It is.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Tim always saw Gotham City like being in the 30s and the 40s. Like that was why he, when he look at the architecture, when you look at the cars, he just drew them so that they looked like they were from another time and sort of said, yeah, well, Metropolis looks like a city from the future. Why can't Gotham City look like a city that's old? And there are parts of New York City and certainly parts of Chicago that were built in the 30s and still look exactly like that. So if you turn right, there's the Flatiron Building sitting in front of you and it doesn't look like anything else that's around it, but it's still there. And so that kind of world, which Tim so loved, really does lend itself to high volume.

[Koi Jondreau]

Absolutely.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Because visually you're not, not thinking about Batman in a high rise, in a glass encased modern kind of thing. You really are sort of thrown back in time because it allows that for your imagination to be able to do that so that you can listen to the sounds of the story. And it's why I love this, that the honking of a car or a siren sounds like something from the past. It doesn't sound like where you sort of go, well, that's weird. There's like a 2012 siren in the middle of this story.

[Koi Jondreau]

So yeah, I also love, and I want to talk about your cameo in just a second, but I also, I really love, actually, actually I take that back. Ongoing role as of the comic I'm about to talk about with this ongoing role in this production that is now tied into the last Halloween. I would love to know firstly how the ongoing role came to be. And then I'd love to talk about how last Halloween is in my hands. And I'm so happy about it.

[Adam O'Byrne]

Well, the ongoing role, the special guest star and Jeph Loeb, as I like to refer to it again, I, you know, they had started, I, I sat at home going, nobody asked me to play a part. And. And then suddenly the phone rang and they said, listen, we were just wondering, we don't know if you have time. And by the way, I, I've left out a really important part which is the, the folks that made this did not just go off and make this as often happens when they're making a movie. They, they sent me every script and asked me if I had time, very politely, if I wanted to give notes or if there was a particular way something was pronounced, that kind of thing. And so they said there is a Scene that's in Labor Day, which is the ninth issue or the tenth issue, I can't remember. It's September. It may be the 11th issue. It's when Harvey is in the hospital after the ass has been thrown in his face. And a doctor comes out and he says, I'm terribly sorry, but he's gone. And they all think they being like Barbara Gordon and whoever else is waiting to find him coming out of surgery, they think he's gone, means he's dead. And the doctor says, no, no, he's gone. And then keels over and he's got a scalp on his back. How he got out of the building without anybody recognizing, that's the magic of comics. And they said, do you want to be this unnamed doctor? And I was like, well, as it turns out, that unnamed doctor isn't dead. That unnamed doctor is in fact plays a pretty big role in the last Halloween. He actually turns out to be Matthew Thorne, who was the original crime doctor. And it's not a spoiler, guys. It's been out for six months. If you're that far behind, shame on you. And he more than once tells the story. He says, I want you to know that I was there the night that Harvey Dent was brought in and I took the fall for it and my life was destroyed, but a new life was born out of it, which is classic Batman, which is something tragic happens and something else comes out of it.

[Koi Jondreau]

And I do want to talk about the last Halloween because I've talked about that at the end of almost every episode. I'm so happy that it exists. As a die hard fan of the original to see artists honoring Tim sales work in a way that doesn't feel like it's replicating, but honoring is so wonderful for me as a comic fan to see that love poured into the work and for you to get to tell the story. How has it been working with different artists of each issue? If you're plotting, how has it felt to honor the story?

[Adam O'Byrne]

First of all, our editor, Ariana Turturro, she's really the hero of the story. Because for an editor to work with one writer and one artist on one story in itself is a miracle. I'm so in awe of the editorial staff at any kind company. But I will tell you that to come into D.C. and say to them, look, I want to do something originally just so everybody knows this was something Tim and I were going to do. The 48 page special, which is now the zero, was the first story. It was the prologue. And then he was supposed to take off from there. And so I had started to write. I had written the first two episodes, and Tim had just started their very rough layouts on the first issue. And then he passed. And him passing was like. It was like he was there and then he wasn't there. And I literally. I took the scripts, I put them in a drawer, and I called D.C. and I said, we're not taking doing this. Like, what's the point? And everyone said, that's fine, that's cool. Let's just move on. Life goes on. Mark Giarello, who is an exceptional storyteller, illustrator, and although he doesn't admit it, editor, who was the art director for 20 years at D.C. and was, after Archie Goodman passed away, took over and became the editor on Dark Victory and on Catwoman Rome. And Richard Starkings, who is my angel on my shoulder and not just a letterer and designer, he is my secret editor because he reads the scripts before anybody else does and says, this works, this doesn't work, that kind of thing. We all sat around and we said, this is kind of a shame. Is the story not going to get told? Like, what are we going to do? And they. They said, well, what if instead of telling a story that is without Tim, what if it is a story for Tim? And what if what we did was we made a list of artists who Tim respected and admired. And so that. And then Marciarello put this thought in my head, which still to this day, he said, you just picture Tim in a rocking chair on PA Kent's porch in Smallville, and he's looking at the collected edition, and every page is one of his favorite artists. And he's just smiling. And he's smiling for two reasons. One, because he gets to see his favorite artist. But two, he knows what a pain in the ass this is going to be for you to put together and work with 10 people that you don't know and try to convince DC that this is actually going to work. And no one has ever created anything like this that's not been an anthology. It's a one continued story with 10 different artists. And then when you throw on the prologue, which is 48 pages by Tim, it's actually a 12 part story. And. And that is the last Halloween.

[Koi Jondreau]

It is absolutely beautiful in both the presentation, what it's for, and the delivery. I'm loving it so far. I really appreciate it and thank you so much for all of your work. So formative to my comic love and fandom in multiple mediums. I really appreciate it.

[Adam O'Byrne]

And I say this to everyone who says kind things. It's a partnership. The reality is, I'm thanking you. I can't do what I do unless you do what you do. Because if people stopped buying stories, if people stopped enjoying the stories. That's why I do comic book conventions. It's so that I can meet the people that allow me to continue to tell stories. And I consider myself a storyteller more than anything else. It's not a writer, it's not a musician. It's a storyteller in any medium.

[Koi Jondreau]

And. And it translates, and I really appreciate it. Go buy some comics. That is how we support beautiful art. And check out High Volume next week for more of this glory. We'll see you then. I would like to extend my eternal gratitude to Jeff Loeb for making this impossible story. I would like to thank Adam O' Byrne for adding so much to this take on 2Face. And I would like to thank Marcella Lynn's Pope for finding what a perfect voice for Gilda to reveal to people the Long Halloween. I mean, if they've read this story all those years ago as I did, or if they're discovering it for the first time, these three incredible artists really brought something special out of D.C. high volume. So thank you so much for sitting down and talking with me. Let's talk about some comics. I want to talk about the Last Halloween. This is Batman, the Long Halloween, the Last Halloween, Issue Zero. We talked about this in the interview. This is the issue where Tim Sale brought us so much beautiful, beautiful art before we lost him. This is the issue that leads into the ongoing Last Halloween we discussed where a different artist picks up and honors Tim's work every single time they pick up a pencil. It's. It's an honor of him. And that was such a beautiful conversation about that. It all starts right here. So this is issue 0. Highly recommend you check out Last Halloween. I've talked to a number of times, but now I can hold it and show you how wonderful it is. I'd also like to mention Batman and Robin Year one. I never knew that Mark Wade had had any sort of impact or influence on the Long Halloween. It was so cool to hear that Harvey Dent moment from Jeff. And right now he's writing a book with Chris Samney on art that actually has two face in it. So clearly, Mark Wade loves this character. It's also one of the best comics on the shelves right now. Batman and Robin, Year one is the OG we're talking Dick Grayson and Batman. We're talking classic stories, but they feel so fresh and so lively with the art from Chris Samy that's so iconic and so colorful. The writing for Mark Wade that is so dynamic and so captivating. Highly recommend that book. These two books, such a wonderful time to be a Batman fan. Check them out. You can check those out on DC UI as well as your local comic shop. DC Universe Infinite is an online comic catalog with tens of thousands of comic books. Those are over there. Please do check that out as well as checking out your local comic shop. I always recommend people going in, exploring. It's like a candy shop, but comics. Less calories, more jokes going. Check out your local comic shop. And please hunt me down on social media. I'm at coyjondro on YouTube and Instagram. Happy to share some recommendations there. Happy to talk comics with you. So please find me on those. And most of all, I want to thank you, dear viewer, for watching. You are watching this, which allows me to talk to these incredible actors, to this incredible writer. All of this is such an honor that I do not take lightly. So thank you. I appreciate it and we'll see you next time. Thank you for joining us in this special episode of DC High Volume. Batman executive producers for Realm, Carly Miliori and Roshan Singh Sambi executive producers for DC Mike Palata and Victor Diaz producer Adam Boffa technical director Insung Huang Engineers Jason Gambrell and Echo Mountain. Hosted by me, Koi Jondreau. Special thanks to Fred Greenhalgh, Kalyn West, Olivia Darienzo, Sarah Sam Ewing and to comic books for existing.