EP 425: The Contract to My Polyamory (Ft. Jerrie Johnson)

Summary

Decisions, Decisions Podcast - EP 425: The Contract to My Polyamory (Feat. Jerrie Johnson)

Hosts: Mandii B and WeezyWTF
Guest: Jerrie Johnson
Release Date: June 16, 2025
Podcast Description: "Decisions, Decisions" explores non-traditional relationships, pushing boundaries around dating, sex, and love with humor, vulnerability, and authenticity.

---

Introduction and Book Announcement [01:40 - 03:55]

The episode kicks off with Mandii B and WeezyWTF announcing the imminent release of their book, "No Holds Barred," a dual manifesto on sexual exploration and power. They outline various book signing events scheduled from June 23 to July 2, inviting listeners to meet them virtually and in-person across multiple cities.

---

Welcoming the Guest: Jerrie Johnson [04:00 - 05:14]

The hosts warmly welcome Jerrie Johnson, an actress known for roles in "Harlem" and "Survival of the Thickest." Jerrie introduces herself as a non-binary and polyamorous individual, currently engaged.

Jerrie Johnson [05:32]:
"I am the Jerri Johnson. I identify as a non-binary person, but any respectable pronouns work for me. Queen mostly. I am currently engaged, I am polyamorous. So we are open and a lot of things we can get into."

---

Representation of Polyamory in Media [06:00 - 09:12]

Mandii and Weezy discuss their first encounter with Jerrie's work and a circulating photo showing Mandii and Jerrie seemingly kissing. They delve into how polyamory is portrayed in "Harlem," highlighting Jerrie’s contribution to integrating polyamorous dynamics into her character Ty.

Jerrie Johnson [07:48]:
"I wanted Ty to be poly. But then when I read the script, I was like, oh, okay. And I love that he was ethically. Thank God, non-monogamous ethically."

---

Challenges in Representing Polyamory [09:12 - 13:01]

The conversation shifts to the challenges actors face in authentically portraying polyamorous relationships. Jerrie emphasizes the need for nuanced representations over stereotypical coming-out narratives.

Jerrie Johnson [29:21]:
"That's what drew me to Ty, was that it wasn't like, 'I'm so embarrassed about being gay,' or, like, I have to come out to my friends and, like, I can't have straight friends because they're gonna think I want the... It's not that."

---

Personal Experiences with Polyamorous Relationships [13:01 - 32:40]

Jerrie shares her personal journey with polyamory, detailing relationships that involved honesty, consent, and mutual understanding. She recounts dating both men and women, navigating the complexities of multiple relationships over four years.

Jerrie Johnson [31:00]:
"We were together for, like, four years. It was a safe space where honesty was paramount."

---

Ethical Non-Monogamy Framework [32:40 - 43:16]

Jerrie introduces her Ethical Non-Monogamy Framework Worksheet, a tool designed to facilitate clear communication and set expectations in polyamorous relationships. The hosts and Jerrie discuss the importance of consent, boundaries, and mutual respect.

Jerrie Johnson [57:37]:
"As an intellectual processor, it's helpful for me to write things out to process, understand, and express my ideas and feelings. The first one, why? Firstly, I like to start by saying that I am polyamorous by orientation, meaning that it is directly correlated with who I am and how I move through the world."

---

Confronting Misconceptions and Challenges [43:16 - 68:30]

The trio addresses common misconceptions about polyamory, such as jealousy and manipulation. They also discuss the misuse of terms like "kitchen table polyamory" and emphasize the necessity of honest communication and community support.

WeezyWTF [66:17]:
"Kitchen table poly describes a style of polyamory where all partners socialize together regularly... but it's being misused in some cases."

---

Navigating Relationships and Therapy [68:30 - 73:12]

Jerrie discusses the role of therapy in her relationships, highlighting how it facilitated better understanding and conflict resolution. They emphasize that therapy is an investment in the health and longevity of relationships.

Jerrie Johnson [53:18]:
"We realized, like, we need somebody to see what's happening... it's an investment, just like any stock."

---

Conclusion and Takeaways [73:12 - End]

The episode wraps up with hosts Mandii B and WeezyWTF reiterating the importance of ethical non-monogamy, consent, and open dialogue. They encourage listeners to embrace authentic connections and rethink traditional relationship norms.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jerrie Johnson [05:32]:
  "I identify as a non binary person... I am polyamorous. So we are open and a lot of things we can get into."

• Jerrie Johnson [29:21]:
  "That's what drew me to Ty, was that it wasn't like, 'I'm so embarrassed about being gay,' or something like that."

• Jerrie Johnson [31:00]:
  "We were together for, like, four years. It was a safe space where honesty was paramount."

• Jerrie Johnson [57:37]:
  "As an intellectual processor, it's helpful for me to write things out... Love in many forms is the perfect definition for me."

• WeezyWTF [66:17]:
  "Kitchen table poly describes a style of polyamory where all partners socialize together regularly... but it's being misused in some cases."

---

Summary

In Episode 425 of "Decisions, Decisions," hosts Mandii B and WeezyWTF engage in a deep and candid conversation with actress Jerrie Johnson about her non-binary identity and polyamorous relationships. The discussion delves into how polyamory is portrayed in media, especially through Jerrie’s character Ty in "Harlem." Jerrie shares her personal journey with ethical non-monogamy, emphasizing the importance of consent, honesty, and clear communication. They introduce practical tools like the Ethical Non-Monogamy Framework Worksheet to help navigate the complexities of multiple relationships. The conversation also addresses common misconceptions and societal challenges surrounding polyamory, advocating for more nuanced and authentic representations. Wrapping up, the hosts and Jerrie highlight the significance of therapy and community support in maintaining healthy, fulfilling polyamorous relationships. This episode serves as a valuable resource for listeners interested in understanding and embracing non-traditional relationship dynamics.

Transcript

[Mandy B]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Weezy]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Mandy B]

Welcome to Decisions Decisions.

[Weezy]

I don't think you should say Decisions Decisions. It sounded like you was talking to Kirsten.

[Mandy B]

You definitely say the welcome.

[Weezy]

Welcome to the new podcast.

[Mandy B]

Oh wait, you want to say it together. Decisions, Decisions.

[Weezy]

Mic check. Mic check. Is this thing on? Hey guys, we are exactly one week out from the release of our book no Holds Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power written by yours truly, your girl Mandy B and Weezy. Wtf? And I wanted to let y' all know you have the chance to to meet us, get your book signed and experience guided conversations with us about this book. And so I'm about to ring off the dates to you guys. Hopefully we're able to see you. So on June 23rd virtually we are doing another Talk Shop live where you can literally join us and ask us anything you'd like about the book while also ordering it. You get a signed version of the copy from our TalkShop live event June 24th at 7pm we are at the Word Bookstore in Brooklyn, New York, with a guided conversation. June 25th at 7pm Come and get your signatures at Uncle Bobby's. That's right. We are signing your books there. June 26th at 7pm we are at Solid State Books in Washington, D.C. and then join us as well. June 27th at 5pm in New Haven Pride Center. That's New Haven, Connecticut. And then June 29, Atlanta, Georgia, 3pm you can join me and some good friends for a conversation as well as book signing in LA. Wheezy is not leaving you hanging. July 2nd at 7pm she will be at Reparations with Shan Boodram. Really, really, really excited to have you guys join us on this monumental week of our book release. No holds barred. Go to our Instagram page, get your tickets, or put it in your calendars to pull up to these bookstores to meet us in person again during the week of our release of no Holds Barn. We cannot wait to see you there. Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Dcz Yons Da Sizzy, y' alls. It's your girl, Mandy B. AKA that beach.

[Mandy B]

It's Weezy. We're having another threesome with somebody from Survival of the Three. It's kind of cute.

[Jerry Johnson]

Heavy beach. Well, you guys have to be like threesomes.

[Weezy]

We have actress Jerry Johnson from Harlem and Survival of the Thickest and a lot more. But I do want to talk about your two roles there, because that's what you could sit and watch. Now, are they. They're both on. One is on Netflix, one is on Hulu.

[Jerry Johnson]

No. Amazon Prime.

[Weezy]

Amazon Prime.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

Prime Video.

[Jerry Johnson]

Prime Video.

[Weezy]

There we go. Prime Video. Welcome, Jerry, to the pod. I've been trying to make this happen for a very long time.

[Jerry Johnson]

Since last year.

[Weezy]

Um, I.

[Mandy B]

You just be busy.

[Weezy]

Well, no, I. I met Jerry through both of our male friends or mutual friends.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

So we all went out one night after it was Paddle of the Sexes.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

And so we go to. I don't even remember some bar. We drinking, and everyone at the table's kind of having their own conversations. And I think I don't even know who the fuck Ish was talking to. But I end up getting into deep talks with this one right here. And I was like, oh, my God, I think I love you, but I don't love you because you're a taken woman, and I'm gonna respect that. But. But also, we have to bring you onto the show to talk about all things. So I guess before we start, how do you identify what is Your relationship status. And I don't wanna say age.

[Mandy B]

She never asked this. So this is what she was like.

[Weezy]

This is more because I wanna get into the character she plays and then all the things. So yeah, identity and relationship status. And if you're a lifestyler, what's the bubble or label if you align with any.

[Jerry Johnson]

I am the Jerri Johnson. I identify as a non binary person, but any respectable pronouns work for me. Queen mostly. You know, I am currently engaged, I am polyamorous. So we are open and a lot of things we can get into.

[Mandy B]

It's one of you things that I've heard about. So I haven't gotten to watch Harlem Survival of the yet, but found this picture. I have to show it to Manny while we're doing this because, uh, oh, this photo got sent to me three times. Once by Breonda, once by two random fans. And it was the first time I came across your page. Someone said, why are you and Mandy kissing in this photo?

[Weezy]

Oh my God, stop it.

[Mandy B]

Jerry and her fiance. And I was like, mind you, my hair is dark right now, but this how my hair be looking. Jerry is red.

[Jerry Johnson]

Wow.

[Weezy]

That's why we kissed it in wedding dresses, bitch.

[Mandy B]

That shit was so fucking funny.

[Jerry Johnson]

I'm saying that is correct.

[Weezy]

No, let's be very clear. I am sent every light skinned to light brown skinned woman with short blonde hair and some ass.

[Mandy B]

It was too elliptical. It's you blonde. Then the braid, it was like. It was literally our whole aesthetic always. Then the second thing was my partner watches Harlem. So I was like, oh, we're having this girl on that. Before I could say it, he was like, oh, don't wanna be fucking bitches.

[Jerry Johnson]

And I was like, men love that.

[Mandy B]

Wow, what do you know? And he was like. I was like, oh, this is one where she fucking this lady. And then she go downstairs and she was fucking the daughter too. And she just out here on the show. I mean, she was living player shit.

[Jerry Johnson]

I was like, ow.

[Mandy B]

Mind you, the only reason he started watching the show, he told me a woman that he dated previously hit him up and said, hey. Cause I think he told some previous partners, like, I have a girlfriend now. Whatever. She was like, you need to watch Harlem because Kofi uses the same language. Like, Kofi like talks the talk, walks the walk.

[Jerry Johnson]

Which I told them. I was like, we need a polyamorous storyline.

[Weezy]

Wait, you brought that to the writers?

[Jerry Johnson]

I was like, yes, I wanted Ty to be poly. But then when I read the script, I was like, oh, okay, this works out.

[Mandy B]

Ty Was just a hoe.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah. Because it also gives Quinn a new thing to battle with. But, yeah, when we had the. After season two, we had the conversation about, like, what kind of things you want to see? And there were some things, like meeting my family that we just didn't have time to do. But I was like, we need to talk about polyamory. So then they became curious, and I was like, y' all need to read Poly Secure. Y' all need to read the Ethical Slut and all of these things. And I was telling them about my experience. And then when I read it, and I was like, okay. And I love that he was ethically. Thank God, non monogamous ethically.

[Weezy]

So basically we could blame.

[Mandy B]

When I found out people were calling my nigga Kofi.

[Weezy]

So we could blame Harlem then for him going on the press run talking about his non monogamy.

[Mandy B]

Oh, that's right.

[Weezy]

Cause he did and was. But maybe. I don't know if he learned it there. I know that we've been seeing. So let me ask you, because your characters are, I guess, somewhat similar to me between Survival of the Thickest and Harlow Boss.

[Jerry Johnson]

Queer Women Boss.

[Weezy]

Right. Is that important for you to play that role and is there another role you would like to play, like, or do you feel like right now you're being pigeonholed into those.

[Jerry Johnson]

I wanna play everything. I can play everything, period. I think this happens to be like, you know, people saw me as Ty, and then they felt like they. You know, it feels like the. If you're looking for this kind of person, like, you know, she can do that. Right. And I think. But Tracy took a chance, you know, I was fresh out of grad school, you know, and so. And I was doing plays. Right. But now it's like, people don't know that I'm a stage actor first because they haven't seen that. And so it's really about, like, who in the industry is willing to take the chance for you to do something different? And where is it? Like, oh, well, we need somebody who we know can do this thing. So we're gonna hire you to do that thing because we know you can do it.

[Mandy B]

Sexuality. Sorry for anyone listening. Mandy and I aren't looking at each other, um, for being queer, being whatever you identify as, but just sexually fluid. Do you think that it kind of plays up and is a. Is a plus for when you're looking for certain roles? Do you think it's a look, or do you think it's actually that you live that lifestyle?

[Jerry Johnson]

I think it's both, I think. So when I talked to Tracee about why I was the first one to be hired for Harlem, and when I talked to Tracy about, she was like, do you know why we hired you? And I was like, no. Apparently, when I came into the room for the producer session, I was flirting with their assistant, but I was.

[Weezy]

So they said, ooh, they got a real gay girl. You know what I mean?

[Jerry Johnson]

I was so in character that I didn't notice, but they was cute.

[Mandy B]

They said a little toeing on the line.

[Jerry Johnson]

You know, I was giving them, you know, a little bit longer handshakes, like, you know, what's up? You look good, you know, whatever. I'm not even, you know, I'm not even thinking about it. And before I even said the words on the page, Tracee knew, like, this is all. And she thought that Ty would be the hardest person to cast because she didn't see anybody with that same aesthetic out in the industry.

[Weezy]

We had the conversation with Tone about his sex scenes, and often you could hear actors talk about their heterosexual sex scenes, right? And then we've heard male actors and their uncomfortability. If they're heterosexual in real life and have to play out gay scenes. What is it like for you? And what are the conversations between you and women that may or may not be bisexual or lesbian and having to do gay scenes and kiss? Like, what are those scenes like for you? I know they're comfortable for you, but what is the conversation like with the other person that's in the scene with you?

[Jerry Johnson]

It's interesting because I have yet to have a sex scene on screen with an actual queer person. Queer woman.

[Weezy]

Really?

[Jerry Johnson]

Nobody that I've been intimate with on screen has been queer.

[Mandy B]

What about when you were watching did you watch Black Mirror with Issa Ray? It.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

That made me feel like, wow, you're not gay.

[Jerry Johnson]

It makes a difference.

[Mandy B]

Even a white girl was a little more.

[Jerry Johnson]

It does make a little bit of a difference. And so for me, I always have the conversation of, like, hey, like, let me know what makes you feel comfortable. Let me know what doesn't make you feel comfortable. My interest is for this to be as authentic as possible. And so there are things that. That I would or would not do that. Like sometimes I watch queer sex scenes, and I'm like, bro, who did this?

[Mandy B]

What are they doing?

[Jerry Johnson]

You know, I'm like, where the strap.

[Mandy B]

At scene we seen?

[Jerry Johnson]

Where the strap at scene we seen?

[Weezy]

I haven't seen that yet.

[Mandy B]

Where you can maybe tell us, like, what that you saw that's a popular scene where you're like, this is fake as fuck.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, Sade. But I was watching the new generation L Word, and I was like, there was a sex scene in there that I was like, huh?

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Weezy]

What?

[Mandy B]

L Word made me feel like I got to have so many conversations with myself when I was younger.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. Because.

[Mandy B]

And the new one fucked me up.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

What about it? And what was the scene?

[Jerry Johnson]

It was like she was. I think she was going down on her or something. And it just wasn't. It just didn't feel. It didn't feel right. Like, it was like, huh. I don't know if this necessarily. Like, maybe it was too easy or maybe there was no other component.

[Weezy]

Right.

[Jerry Johnson]

And it just didn't feel like. It didn't feel like.

[Mandy B]

You know, the thing about the L word that felt real for me were all the hands. Like, there were times where I would say I was having sex with somebody and people would be like, you're not having sex if you're just doing this or if you're like. Or if you're using your hands. And it would make me feel so invalidated when I was younger because I thought that really was sex for us. The L word was such a different viewpoint.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Just being able to see. People call it car sex that had sex in a car with hands.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

It really changed it for me just with how I presented. Because I would want to do more and be like, oh, well, now I need a strap just to say I fuck.

[Jerry Johnson]

No. No.

[Weezy]

Is there any scenes currently on TV where a strap has even been shown?

[Jerry Johnson]

I have advocated for the strap to be hanging up on a bed so many times.

[Mandy B]

They're like.

[Jerry Johnson]

So just tell me, like, the thought process behind it. The thought is that I used it and that when queer people see it, they're gonna be like, oh, okay, I see what you did there. You know, it's a little bit of a level of recognition even if you don't have to see me putting it on all. You know, just that it's just not always bumping coochies.

[Weezy]

Right.

[Jerry Johnson]

And I enjoy that, but I'm not doing that.

[Weezy]

All the mine stays in my closet. Does yours stay on your headboard?

[Jerry Johnson]

No.

[Weezy]

Where do you put it?

[Jerry Johnson]

I have a basket.

[Weezy]

Okay. Yeah, I have a basket.

[Jerry Johnson]

Different sizes. Same, same.

[Weezy]

I just showed my boyfriend one that I have, and he was like, it was King Noir's. He was like, now, okay. It was bigger than his bottom. Oh, no. Let me tell you. I don't even know if I shared this on a podcast. Yet his parents live in Europe. So he just got me a refrigerator for my room. Cause I live upstairs and downstairs, and I be tired and lazy and don't wanna go downstairs to get water. So he's showing his dad the little refrigerator.

[Mandy B]

No, dad was not on refrigerator, bro.

[Weezy]

There was a dildo, a white glass, and condoms on top of the fridge. And he was like, oh, wow, y' all were. And so he had to tell me that his dad saw the fucking dildo on the goddamn motherfucking refrigerator.

[Mandy B]

You know what's funny? When I was gay gay, my mom saw everything, girl. It was a little too much. There was a suction cup dildo I had that I would hang necklaces on. She would.

[Jerry Johnson]

What is gay gay?

[Mandy B]

Oh, I just have a man now. I be making jokes.

[Jerry Johnson]

When I had a girlfriend, I was gay gay.

[Mandy B]

Now I'm just half gay. So, no, when I was gay gay, my mama was. Oh, she was almost so overwhelmed.

[Weezy]

You used a dildo to hang necklaces on?

[Mandy B]

It was just. I had so many at that point. It was just fun. So I stuck one on the wall, and the necklace was there. And she came into my. And I remember she said, you guys are balls to the wall with no balls.

[Jerry Johnson]

That's what she said.

[Mandy B]

That is funny. And I think the questions that she had were so interesting because she wanted to know so much how I wasn't missing anything. Like, my mom knew I was dating women for most of my life, but only her. She was just like. And I could tell my mom would have three little vodkas. You sitting there, SAP. I'm like, all right. It was very difficult for me to talk about it with her. And I think it's because talking about men with a woman that's straight, it's easy.

[Weezy]

But, like, ooh, I have yet. I have yet to talk to my mom about being with women, even though.

[Mandy B]

I be fooling with women. So weird, bro.

[Weezy]

And what's crazy is my experience with a strap is I've only been strapped once by a woman. My ex girlfriend when I lived in Miami. And, bitch, I do the strapping only on men. So, like, my. Oh, you know what I mean? So my experience with that is that. And I love that you, as an actress who can be so vocal for representation on screen, is able to try to at least advocate for these little subtleties of what our life really looks like in real life, but also on the paper. Because I think even when I'm seeing them acting it out, there's ways in which we talk woman to woman. That's different than heterosexual relationships as well. So I just love that. I know we talked a lot about Harlem, but what was it like working with Tasha Smith? Right?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. Tasha is great.

[Weezy]

Tasha is funny in all of our aunties and been that for our whole lives. How was that?

[Jerry Johnson]

You know, she came into the room like, well, y' all know we about to do this here sex scene, and she got her little robe that she. You know what I mean? But then, you know, when we in the back, she's like, but you gonna have to tell me, right? You know, you gonna have to let me know. And so she went and she got over me, and I'm like, we ain't even get there. You know, we gotta. You pull up the leg, you know, you gotta make sure the puzzle pieces work right, so that it looks like, you know, we really going there. And maybe I slide down, you know, so I can get up in there. Because it's supposed to be, like, such a. Such a beautiful experience for her that she gets so emotionally overwhelmed that she has to leave. And so I'm like, we want. I want also the audience to feel like, oh, I know what happened. You know what I mean? Even if we can't show everything, we have to do a little bit of the nuance.

[Weezy]

That's her battling with her sexuality, essentially, right? Or not knowing.

[Jerry Johnson]

It's her battling with power, really, like, not wanting to be vulnerable enough to, like, let a person see. You know, when you have that good. You, like, whew, I just want to cry and hug you and. And all of this stuff. And I have to go. Cause I don't know where to put these emotions. And so I think it's more about, like, the emotional arc of Marlee always being the one who can put her energetic dick on the table, who can pay for whatever needs to be paid for. And now she's meeting this woman who is not only beautiful and smart and has her own funds.

[Weezy]

She gonna fuck you good, too. I know that's right. How do you love her? How do you differentiate as a person from the characters you've played?

[Jerry Johnson]

I feel like Ty is. I feel like maybe both of the characters are lesbian. I don't identify as a lesbian. Gender fluid and sexually fluid. You know, I will throw that ass dick with a big dick. But. But I think also there is a lack of emotional availability with Ty. Like, there is a lot of family trauma there that just doesn't allow her to have the courage enough to go deep. And I'm a person. Like I lay it all out on the table. Like, I want you to know what you're getting into so that you don't say like, oh well, I thought da da da.

[Weezy]

You don't show up with a representative.

[Jerry Johnson]

Basically and some bitches want ties.

[Mandy B]

I'm from New York. Are you from New York?

[Jerry Johnson]

I'm from Philly.

[Mandy B]

Okay. Cousin.

[Weezy]

Yeah, right.

[Jerry Johnson]

You know, Ty's from Georgia. I'm from Philly. But it's, you know, it's giving that and the Philly, you know, they give that and so. But I think also Ty wants that type of like love and connection, but also doesn't know how to get it because she's not living truthfully to her family. And that was a big thing. Like people in my family know.

[Weezy]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Mandy B]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest.

[Jerry Johnson]

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[Mandy B]

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[Jerry Johnson]

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[Mandy B]

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[Jerry Johnson]

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[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Jerry Johnson]

Terms apply.

[Mandy B]

Lounge access is subject to change.

[Jerry Johnson]

See capital1.com for details.

[Weezy]

Was it easy for you to express? Like being that you're gender fluid, sexually fluid, was that easier to quote unquote come out to your family about?

[Jerry Johnson]

So my mom, she passed away in 2019. She was ready to go but my mom was the first hoe I ever met.

[Weezy]

Speak on it.

[Jerry Johnson]

Johnny Bay Cooper she was before the hot girls were popular.

[Weezy]

She was the hot girl.

[Mandy B]

I'm so sad but I just kind of. I kind of will Our children say this about us.

[Weezy]

I love that. Probably first off we say we is hereditary around here. Her mama said that she is a queen sucking dick like on our first live show.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Oh no. This is verbatimal conversation. I was in the car with my mom, I might be recorded. And she was like how was last night? And I was like he said I was the best he ever had. She literally held my Hand. Not joking. Men have told me this my whole life. I knew it would happen to you.

[Jerry Johnson]

I fucking knew it.

[Mandy B]

I knew it. There was just no way. I would look at you sometimes and I would say, they're gonna go crazy.

[Weezy]

I just knew. What did you see in your mom?

[Jerry Johnson]

She six, three. Always, like, between like 190 and 230.

[Weezy]

Okay.

[Jerry Johnson]

So she always towered over men. I have seven brothers and sisters. We all have different dads, except for two of us. I've seen my mom run a nigga out the house. She be going toe to toe with niggas. Yes. I've seen my mom fight her best friend on a cop car. They called the cops to come get her ass. She's like, I'mma beat your ass up before they take me away. Like, Truly, my mom has been on Cops twice.

[Weezy]

Wait, the television show?

[Jerry Johnson]

The television show.

[Mandy B]

Girl, leave.

[Jerry Johnson]

I swear.

[Weezy]

I need you to send us the episode.

[Jerry Johnson]

I swear. She was her own, like. And so conversations about sex. And she also was a bartender and she worked at the door.

[Mandy B]

Are you the only queer sibling?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

Okay.

[Jerry Johnson]

And so the only out.

[Mandy B]

Not when your brother.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, but she. So she had her schedule was she would wake up at 5pm, get herself ready, take her little laxative, okay. Go to the bar. She'd be back at like 3 o' clock in the morning. If the house wasn't clean, she'd wake us all up. She was a Virgo. Even if we had school in the morning, we'd be up cleaning the house until it was time to go to school. Truly, this woman was. She was. But she sucking dick and all of this with my aunts and stuff. And then my cousins. I love y' all. And my sister. They was horrible.

[Weezy]

Would you overhear the conversations or did she specifically come to you and your siblings with the conversation about the birds and the bees?

[Jerry Johnson]

We weren't having birds and the bees conversations. It was like, you just gotta sit there and be quiet. And they talking about what they talking about. Yeah, but it was no separation, you know, like, go upstairs because we're about to talk about adult conversations. No. When she got an Instagram page, her Instagram page was milky with two I's. Oh, okay. And she would post like, you know, the best dick suckers are this, this, that. This is when I was acknowledged.

[Mandy B]

Swear to God. How do you know?

[Jerry Johnson]

I'm 30.

[Mandy B]

So you were. Oh, my God. So, okay, I'm 34, so I'm thinking the same age. I'm just trying to think about my mama. Posting shit like, you know, my mom.

[Jerry Johnson]

It was crazy.

[Mandy B]

IG videos, tagging the people. My mom will comment on a bitch's thing. Like, look like, just crazy sexy.

[Weezy]

You was in high school and you had to see.

[Jerry Johnson]

I was so embarrassed. When I was in high school, I was so. I never wanted anybody to come to my house because my mom, sometimes she'll only have a bra on. Sometimes she'll take her wig off and put it on her knee and put her. She had a towel on one knee, right? She'd take the wig off, put it on her knee, put the towel. If she got too hot on her head. Her hair was cut like mine. She would dye her hair and her vagina are the same color. No way I'm seeing my mom.

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

What color?

[Jerry Johnson]

If it was red, she had red.

[Weezy]

Wait, she dyed her coochie hair to match her.

[Jerry Johnson]

Whatever her hair was. I swear to God.

[Mandy B]

Hold on. This is Ms. Scottie.

[Weezy]

What is it again?

[Jerry Johnson]

You said what.

[Mandy B]

What was her name?

[Jerry Johnson]

No, no, her first name. Johnny Mae. Johnny.

[Mandy B]

Johnny mae.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Oh, Ms. Johnny Mae. That name feel like some shit.

[Jerry Johnson]

And I love. And now I see, like, the audacity that I have comes from my mom, but there was a time where I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, you can't say that in front of people. Or you can't. She said, what.

[Mandy B]

Sinners in this?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah. No.

[Weezy]

We need a movie on your mama. Your mama need to be a character in one of these movies.

[Mandy B]

I'd like to ask you about coming out stories because I feel like I have friends that are gay for real. And a lot of this shit that we see on TV is just like, I'm confused. I don't know. And it's like, the same trope. Are you kind of tired of it? Are you kind of tired of feeling like queer storylines have to come with the coming out story? Why is it always a part of the character?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. That's what drew me to Ty, was that it wasn't like, oh, my God, like, I'm so embarrassed about being gay, or, like, I have to come out to my friends and, like, I can't have straight friends because they're gonna think I want the. It's not that. Or it's like, the gay character in the friend group is always questioning and confused and an artist and don't have no money. It's like, all of, like, if you're confused about sexuality, you can't.

[Mandy B]

Right.

[Jerry Johnson]

You can't also have, like, a business or a job. It's like, it also Comes with some sort of, like, aloofness, because I don't know if I want men or women or whatever. I'm just, like, living my life. And I do think that there is some. Some openness, like, when you're an artist, like, you're more open to different things, but it's not always that. Like, I feel like sometimes people are. People's parents just know that their kids are gay and they don't actually have to come out.

[Mandy B]

You know what I mean? What about, like, even in this moment, like, you do an interview, and it's the question, how often do you feel like you're talking about this story over and over to where it kind of, like, just muddles who you are?

[Jerry Johnson]

I feel like I come out more as poly than coming out as queer.

[Mandy B]

Oh, that's the more interesting thing to talk about now.

[Weezy]

Right now. Yes.

[Jerry Johnson]

People are like. But, I mean, when I was in college, I had a boyfriend who was a Leo, and we were both.

[Weezy]

You and these signs, girl. My mama who was a Virgo.

[Jerry Johnson]

Because it matters who was a Leo.

[Mandy B]

And you said that one was Leo.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes, it matters.

[Mandy B]

What's your sign?

[Jerry Johnson]

I'm an Aquarius.

[Mandy B]

Oh, February.

[Jerry Johnson]

January.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Jerry Johnson]

Very compatible, right? But we were watching porn, and we were watching lesbian porn, and I was so turned on, and he was like, you like women? And so we started dating women together. And this was me at 18, 19 years old.

[Weezy]

You introduced it because he was comfortable with that, or did you have to have. Did they have to join y' all in the bedroom? Was he able to go out? Like, what was the dynamic at 18, entering a relationship poly with a man, with other women? What did that look like?

[Jerry Johnson]

It was most of the time we had sex with women together, but it wasn't like, it wasn't closed to that. Like, if he. As long as he told me, you know exactly what it was like, I'm a truth person. Like, I can tell when somebody's lying to me. So as long as you're fully honest with me, I don't care. As long as you're being safe. Like, it is what it is. But most of the time, we were having sex with women together. And then I was like, how many.

[Mandy B]

Years did that last?

[Jerry Johnson]

We were together for, like, four years.

[Weezy]

Oh, wow.

[Jerry Johnson]

Maybe like, a soft five.

[Mandy B]

So you're learning together.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. Yes. And he was so. It was such a, like, deep understanding there that I felt safe enough to, like, what I needed. There wasn't any judgment. And he was curious about it, too. Like, he wanted me to Talk about it with him.

[Weezy]

And then was he older or same age?

[Jerry Johnson]

He was the same age. Wow.

[Mandy B]

What about that relationship brought around the biggest lesson? Cause now we know so much about open relationships. But what about that particular relationship? Kind of taught you something that you.

[Jerry Johnson]

Even use today was that it's possible. Like, I have like been with monogamous people who like, wanted to try poly with me. I've dated people who are like, you're just, you're just poly because you want this, this and this, and you want to have. And if I.

[Weezy]

You want to have your cake and.

[Jerry Johnson]

Eat it too, it's like, okay, sure. But also, like I say, talking about astrology, like, truly, it's in my chart. Like, multiple partnerships is like in my chart. And so to do that with him where it was safe, where he was kind of like, sometimes he was my wingman. Like, he knew that I didn't know if women would be attracted to me. Right back in the.

[Weezy]

What?

[Jerry Johnson]

I know, bitch. I know. I'm like, you know, I am a siren, but I know how to siren for men.

[Mandy B]

Can you talk about what a siren is for people who don't know?

[Jerry Johnson]

It's like, it's like Little Mermaid, kind of technically. But I was just in San Diego and my friend Lamar is like, jerry, you have a siren song. It's like this silent thing that you do that just draws people to you. And I know that that siren works for.

[Mandy B]

But how do you know the difference between your siren energy versus just having a extroverted energy, being somebody that people wanna be around? How do you know it's that?

[Jerry Johnson]

Because it.

[Mandy B]

You can see it. But I'm just asking.

[Jerry Johnson]

It's. So I was on the plane coming back from San Diego and I'm like in my headphones and this man stops and he's like, oh, my God, I am gay, but I wanna be with you. What is. I didn't say nothing to him. I didn't do any. I didn't even look. But there is something about me that calls people in and a lot of times it's like, it is a big responsibility because it can be used in a lot of different ways. And I am a deep empath and I care about. Care for people. I care about people's feelings, I care about people's well being. And I have a hypersensitivity to being used and using people, which sometimes is like this double edged sword because then there are things that I might not accept because I don't wanna deal with the whatever might come with the Thing that is being offered to me. And so because of that, I'm like, I'm really aware of people's feelings and how I come off to people. But that situation, I wasn't even like, I'm like, I'm kind of drunk off these beers I had. You know what I mean? I'm not thinking about nothing. And this man just like, you know, and so for me, it's, it's an intuitive thing, but it's also this thing that happens without like, I'm not putting it on, right. It's not just like, oh my God, you're a nice person to be around. No, you have impacted my life and I'm gonna be thinking about you forever.

[Weezy]

When did you start getting comfortable then, with realizing that same power worked for women?

[Jerry Johnson]

Through my relationship with him, I was like, I started to like, really see, like, oh, he's right. Like women do like me and find me. Right. But then when I moved to San Francisco. Oh, I was.

[Weezy]

That's all you had to say? Oh, you were in the Bay.

[Jerry Johnson]

The Bay area. I mean, they were talking about all this shit before anybody was.

[Weezy]

No, they weren't.

[Jerry Johnson]

When it was not popular, it was like, hello, my name is, and my pronouns are this, this. Yes, I'm a poly, non monogamous, blah, blah, blah. All in the bay. Yeah, it's just. And so to be in the, to live in a bay for four years while I was in grad school really opened me up. And so I remember telling my friend, like, I wanna be a hoe. And he was like, but you too nice, you can't.

[Weezy]

You said, you wanna be a hoe.

[Mandy B]

Wait, a hoe has then the nicest girl.

[Jerry Johnson]

Not that, but this is what he said. He said, it's like, I can't, I just, I was a little back footed.

[Weezy]

You saying, friend, I want to be a hoe. What did that look like to you? Because we've had that debate, tell us a long time, like since we had horrible decisions.

[Jerry Johnson]

Uh huh.

[Weezy]

What's a hoe to you? What's a, like, what did a hoe mean to you?

[Jerry Johnson]

That meant any sexual instinct or impulse that I had in any moment, I was going to follow through with, ooh.

[Mandy B]

Do you think you've had phases of your life where even in the pursuit of hodom, you felt a little guilty?

[Jerry Johnson]

No.

[Mandy B]

Never felt shame. It never happened.

[Jerry Johnson]

Well, yes, yes, because what I realized that then through that relationship that I had for four years, although it was so open in terms of being with women, I was his Barbie Like, I was his princess. Like, I was the girl who hadn't had sex with a lot of people, and I was like, only his. So then when the. So for me, for women, like, I'm like, you know, I feel the freedom there. But when I would have sex with men, I remember this one guy, I had sex with him, and then afterwards I was like, oh, my God, why did I do. Like, I was so hard on myself.

[Weezy]

What made you. Do you know what triggered that reaction?

[Jerry Johnson]

It was the, like, the shame of, like, what happens when you've been with X amount of men? Or what does it mean to be with a man? Or, like, what the things that can happen when you are with men. A lot of that started to come up. And so then when I was like. When I was like, I want to be a hoe, which is really just like me living in my truth and my freedom, I had to dismantle all of the ideas I had about what it would look like for me or who it would make me to have sex freely with men.

[Weezy]

Oh, wow.

[Jerry Johnson]

And when I tell you, I remember being at this meeting with this girl at this bar, and this man was just giving me these blueberry drinks. And so I'm looking at him and I'm like, oh, I'm about to fuck this bartender now, mind you, the bar is kind of like. It's kind of like an afternoon in the bay. Not that many people.

[Weezy]

And so now that'd be at 4pm and I'm not looking off the blueberry joints.

[Jerry Johnson]

He just kept talking. The way he was saying blueberry to me, I. I was like, he trying to fuck Blueberries.

[Mandy B]

You blueberries.

[Weezy]

Blueberries, you.

[Jerry Johnson]

You said he wanted.

[Mandy B]

Give me that.

[Jerry Johnson]

Dude, he wanted. So then I was like, can you tell me where the bathroom is? And so he was like, oh, it's downstairs on this side. Da da da. So then I'm in the bathroom. I'm like, okay, how can I get this nigga down here so we can fuck right now? In the middle of this meeting? This girl didn't even know. So then I was like, this is hoe shit.

[Mandy B]

I said, I'm judging, bitch.

[Jerry Johnson]

I don't care. I said, sorry, there's no tissue down there. He said, oh, really? Let me come show you. Then we went down there and we fucked in the freezer, bitch. Bitch, you are a motherfucking liar. Yes, we did. We did. And there was no. And then I went back upstairs and had the meeting.

[Weezy]

I lived for this, period.

[Jerry Johnson]

I said, oh, okay. To freedom.

[Weezy]

Jerry. Jerry. When is your book coming out? I need the whole hold em your entire 20s written into a motherfucking erotica biz.

[Jerry Johnson]

Add me a fucking chapter in that, bitch.

[Mandy B]

The thing I really am curious about, being someone that is, I would even say lesbian. Presented just on your page, your girl, the shows we're seeing you in now, when you have sex with men, do you find that they're almost a little insecure? Do they have this conquering attitude? Do you enjoy that? What is it about the male dynamic sexually that kind of gets you?

[Jerry Johnson]

I think men are so infatuated with me, they're so curious about me. But what I find is when I'm just trying to fuck a nigga, they want so much more. And I have friends who want that.

[Weezy]

They hate it.

[Jerry Johnson]

And it's like, oh, no, well, let's do this first and this first and this first. I'm like, I'm trying to get some you wanna do.

[Weezy]

But reverse psychology, ladies. If you treat a man like a piece of motherfucking meat, they still want it. He will literally pour his soul out of insecurities. Like, that's all you want. You only want me for my dick. This is what I learned, bro. They will literally be like, but I have more for you. You have the time.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. Also offering everything. But I find. So I feel like sometimes like either American men, either American men want to play this sort of game, this game of cat and mouse, or it's like the Caribbean. Or the African American men who are like, you need to be my wife. But then I went to Europe. Shit, I was fucking. Aw, shit, I was fucking the European.

[Weezy]

They're a little bit more.

[Mandy B]

The European niggas. No, the Europeans.

[Jerry Johnson]

The Europeans. I don't know what you said. I don't know.

[Mandy B]

I.

[Jerry Johnson]

I didn't even know that's what I went to Europe to do. You know, I was just trying to mind my business.

[Mandy B]

We think it's all pussy.

[Weezy]

I was trying to be a hoe.

[Jerry Johnson]

Y' all want to go to get them Hungarian men, okay? They.

[Weezy]

They hungry for the pussy.

[Jerry Johnson]

Woo. Hung. Hung. Do you understand? And it felt a little bit more like, oh, we can have our intimate moments and that just be it. Like you not calling my phone a million times.

[Mandy B]

But you know what Euro like my encounters. I have always been the little Yero travel girl. And I will tell you, they're just more passionate people where we have more of a tie to like intimacy and chemistry. Like, I've had conversations with friends about kissing and how, you know, maybe one of My homegirls was like, ooh, I don't know. I kinda wanna just get some dick. I don't know. I feel like I might need to like this N, bro, I could be in love with a nigga in an hour. In Italy?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. In Berlin, I was at Berghein, y' all. Oh, my God, yes.

[Mandy B]

Did you go to basement?

[Jerry Johnson]

Did I go to basement? I went to the Kit Club.

[Mandy B]

He goes basement here.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, I don't know about the stuff here. I would love to, though. Well, for sure. But afterwards we should talk about it. But I was at. And it was like, the tension between. It was like, we knew that we were gonna do this thing, but we also didn't know. And it felt like more of a vamping up to the act as opposed to transaction, which I think, like, sometimes in America it can be about the transaction. Like, I'm a very passionate person. I feel like my erotic is attached to and connected to my creativity. And so, like, I like sex to be creative.

[Mandy B]

Not too bad a fuck to get this roll off, bruh. Listen, I feel like my eroticness is attached. I don't. I don't know if I can perform.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, no, no. Not that it's contingent upon it, but I do think that sex is a creative act for me. That, like, I'm not just like, gonna be like, oh, yeah, let's get this. It's gonna be incredible. Like you really. Like they said on hotels, you gonna remember this pussy. You understand? But I like that type of passion. And I feel like in Europe, it just felt more like they were down to have that, like that rendezvous for a night that's really passionate and sweet and sexy and it doesn't feel like exploiting.

[Mandy B]

We have weirdness with intimacy. Think about even children, nudity, nude beaches, sexuality. Yeah, we have such.

[Jerry Johnson]

When you were in high school and you said, like, I got a condom, people were like, oh, my God, why do you have a condom? You know? But in Europe, like, it's like people you would have to carry. It was almost like shame because. Because you having a condom meant that you were promiscuous. But it's like, but if I have sex and I don't have this condom. But that's the American conditioning as opposed to in Europe. It's like people are having sex. More people in America lose their virginity in cars than anywhere else. Because where else are you gonna go if you don't talk about sex with your family? And sex is so taboo.

[Weezy]

You, right? You not having it in the house.

[Jerry Johnson]

What happened in your House.

[Mandy B]

You asked Jeeves that.

[Jerry Johnson]

That is not.

[Weezy]

I mean actually my mama was at work, I was braiding this nigga hair. It was at the house. But you know, it was a little.

[Mandy B]

I think I do remember your.

[Jerry Johnson]

I was also a woman's studies major in college and we talked about this kind of stuff. We talked about how it's like even just like the weird shit that be going on in America. It's like because we're having conversations because parents in Europe are like, oh, okay, is Cindy coming over? Okay, you guys can go upstairs, we'll leave you alone. And so then it's a safe for experience because everybody knows what's going on. We're not sneaking. If something happens, there are witnesses to know.

[Weezy]

Like also just being that in the western world we're based off Christian views. And so we even just went through on an episode we talked about the history of sexual norms through age. And it's really interesting to know that a lot of our views now actually stem from the feminist movement and us getting our autonomy back and really letting these niggas know they weird out here.

[Mandy B]

I don't want a job. I lie.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Let's be real. Life happens, kids. Spill, pets, shed and accidents are inevitable. That's why you need a washable sofa that can keep up. Our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space. Whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. Starting at just $699. It's time to upgrade to a stress free mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. What is dadication? The thing that drives me every day.

[Jerry Johnson]

As a dad is Dariana. We call them date A for short.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Every day he's hungry for something, whether.

[Jerry Johnson]

It'S attention, affection, knowledge. And there's this huge responsibility in making.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Sure that when he's no longer under my wing that he's a good person. I want him to be able to.

[Jerry Johnson]

Sit back one day and go, we.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Worked together, we did a good job.

[Jerry Johnson]

That's dedication.

[Mandy B]

Find out [e-mail] brought to you by.

[Jerry Johnson]

The U.S. department of Health and Human Services and the Ad Council.

[Weezy]

I do want to get into our reactionary because I want to talk about your relationship just a little bit. I'm going to play this clip and then we'll go from there. I want to know if you agree or disagree.

[Jerry Johnson]

At the age of 54 and two divorces later, let me give you the marriage advice I wish that I had listened to. Love is not enough. Marry for character, not just chemistry. You're not just marrying them. You're marrying their habits, their debt, and their family drama. Marriage will never fix loneliness. The wrong person will make it worse. You can't marry potential. You're not a life coach, you're a spouse. Being alone is way better than wishing you were the right person will make you feel safe. The wrong one will make you feel small. We'll figure it out. Is not a financial plan. Some people don't want love. They want control. Learn the difference. You should be excited to marry them, not just relieved that they finally committed. Be prepared to marry the whole family, period.

[Mandy B]

What that.

[Weezy]

Did you agree with her sentiment? And then the follow up would be what lets you know that your fiance was the one.

[Jerry Johnson]

I agree. I think I was dating my fiance and I was also dating somebody else. And.

[Weezy]

Ooh, the other person met. They ain't get the ring, right?

[Jerry Johnson]

No. And we had. It was a great thing going. They planned my 28th birthday together.

[Weezy]

It was very.

[Mandy B]

The other woman and your fiance?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah, she wasn't my fiance at the time, but yes. Were you my girlfriend? I was dating both of them. They were not dating.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Jerry Johnson]

But my girlfriends at the time planned my birthday. You know, I'm a person where I'm like, everybody got to meet everybody. So that you don't. You're not asking me? Well, it's not. There's no. I think sometimes, like, the mystery of, like, who this other person is is more daunting than the reality of, like, with this.

[Weezy]

Once you meet them.

[Jerry Johnson]

And I don't like to amplify or throw salt on anybody's insecurities. Like, let's just all know what's going on. Y' all have each other's numbers. Y' all want to compare notes with each other. Y' all could do what y' all want to do, you know what I mean? So that I am not the centerpiece of this thing. And then the relationship with that person didn't work out. And then I was like, oh, okay. And I think the relationship with my Fiance at the time kind of got a little. It was a little interesting. I didn't feel like. I felt like we were, like, butting up against each other. And I couldn't understand that. Cause we were so. We just, like, had fun together, right? And so I was like, okay, I don't think that this is working for me. So I kind of just, like, took a moment and then I was child. I'm not even gonna say that.

[Weezy]

Anyway.

[Jerry Johnson]

Anyway, I started getting these messages that I needed to, like, reconnect with her. Like, that this is my person and I'm. But when I met her.

[Weezy]

Messages?

[Mandy B]

What do you mean, messages?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. Like, I would be on a plane and I'm behind this couple and we're having a good time. I'm like, what's y' all, Signs? Cause I am into signs. And it's like an Aquarius and a Libra. And that's our signs. Or. Or it's like 666. That means that you're gonna rekindle with an old flame. Or me getting a reading months ahead saying, whoever you're gonna be with on this date is gonna be the person that you're gonna be with. Happened. So, like, at 12:00am on that day, I went to a concert that she also was at. And then we decided to get dinner together. So that. On that, it was just like, all of these things. And so I was like, hey, like, I'm coming back to. I had gone to Dominican Republic, twisted my ankle, and I was like, I'm coming back to New York. I would love to, like, talk to you. And so she was like, okay. So we sat down and we had a conversation. And the thing that she said is, like, I wanna be best friends this time. Like, no matter what we do, like, I wanna be friends. And I was like, oh, okay.

[Weezy]

Did you believe that that was possible? To go from a romantic relationship to just a platonic one?

[Mandy B]

Well, it didn't mean platonic, right?

[Jerry Johnson]

I don't think she wanted it platonic, but she wanted the friendship to be the most important thing.

[Weezy]

Okay.

[Jerry Johnson]

Because I think sometimes we miss our partners. We miss connections, we miss communication. When we aren't friends, it's like, that's not your friend. And so you don't even understand me on a baseline, because I'm not your friend. I'm just your partner. And so for us, she was like, okay. I said, let's. I'm down with that. And we've literally been inseparable ever since. That is truly my best friend. Wherever I'M at. I'm like, I wanna share information with her. I'm, like, going to events that I don't really wanna, because she's gonna be there. And we live together, like. But I just love hanging out with her. I can talk to her all night. We can, like, go on these walks where we don't know where the hell we going, and we just laughing and joking. And there's been, like, some moments where it's been difficult to, like, figure out, like, okay, how do we. Because a lot of our pain. Pressure points were the same. And so it was like, we would be at these standstills. And it's like, okay, why are we. We don't, like. We'll have, like, every three months, we'll have, like, one big argument. And it's like, what is this? And so we started going to therapy and all of that to, like, truly get to understanding. But it'll be like.

[Mandy B]

How many years have you been dating her?

[Jerry Johnson]

Three years.

[Mandy B]

Did you feel like therapy early on? Or just. Let's just say a year, year and a half is too early?

[Jerry Johnson]

I don't think therapy is. I think if you feel like. I think a relationship is an investment. It's an investment of time. It's an investment of money. And so you're not just gonna invest in a stock that you don't know nothing about. Right. Or invest in a stock that you might get some opinions from other people and all of that. Right. And I think that relationships are the same. And so sometimes you just need to be witness. It's not about, like.

[Mandy B]

Cause people would say the argument on the other side is, well, if you're thinking about therapy so early, this can't be good. And really what I'm hearing from you is like, okay, we're going good. This is happening. Let's fix it.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah. It's like not letting. Not letting the one thing. The one thing be the thing that, like, we can't see eye to eye on. And it wasn't. I mean, we had gone maybe two years at first of just, like, trying to figure it out ourselves. And we realized, like, oh, we need somebody to see what's happening. And to say, oh, Drea, that's actually just this trauma, Jerry. You need to be more considerate about this or this and that shift for me. Cause I'm an intellectual. The shift for me of that is like, oh, I can do that. I don't mind making concessions, but it has to make sense to me.

[Weezy]

But sometimes we also just don't have the right Tools to figure it out from either not seeing healthy relationships or not even being able sometimes to hold up the mirror and get ourselves out of our own way sometimes.

[Jerry Johnson]

Right.

[Weezy]

And so I'm glad that you guys chose to do that. So after therapy and being together, what was the. Aha. I gotta put a ring on it.

[Jerry Johnson]

I actually put a ring on it before we were going to therapy, but I did shrooms in Tulum, and I.

[Mandy B]

Was like, all of our stories in.

[Jerry Johnson]

Tulums, and I was, like, walking down the beach and I sacrificed.

[Mandy B]

Did you even have the ring?

[Jerry Johnson]

No. Oh. Oh. We did go. We found this ring upstairs at this vintage shop, and we bought this ring, but it wasn't like, it was like, in case it happens. Like, this is the. We didn't want to pass up on the opportunity of getting this ring. It was a beautiful ring, and we both loved it. Hold on her finger.

[Mandy B]

Purchased it.

[Weezy]

What?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

This ring. You didn't buy it in a vintage shop in Tulum? Cause I ain't never seen one. No, you bought it in New York, upstate. Okay. You buy this ring at a vintage.

[Jerry Johnson]

Shop that fits on her ring finger perfectly.

[Mandy B]

Just in case we get married. Who holds it?

[Jerry Johnson]

Not just in case we get. We didn't even talk about it. Like, we just kind of like, she tried the ring on her ring finger, and then I bought it, and then I had it. Like, we didn't talk about it, which was interesting because we talk about everything. Yes. And then I would do this funny thing when she. When she would say something smart. I mean, we just do stuff with each other, but when she would say something smart or something, I would do this. Cause the ring was in his pocket. You better watch out, girl. Girl. And she would just crack up.

[Mandy B]

That's what this. This little energy is what makes me feel like, you know, my man and I have been dating two years, and we just talk very deeply about exactly what we want. Marriage planning, whatever. So I feel like when women get to that stage, sometimes you're like, ooh, when? Right. Sometimes I be doing shit where I be fucking up. Like, let's just say my birth control made me act crazy. He be looking at me like, and you think, I can't go back out there, bitch. We were right on the line, huh? And it's scary because when you are in these moments, you just made me think something about therapy. We were having a conversation the other day where he was like, sometimes I wish you could hear yourself from someone else's, like, point of view.

[Jerry Johnson]

Because we don't See it with our part, when our partner says it, it's like, absolutely not. No, no, no. And it's like, no, you need somebody else to hear you and let them tell you, because you're not gonna hear it from me.

[Weezy]

Absolutely.

[Jerry Johnson]

And it's also, like, with all of our endorphins and the love thing, and it's like, I wanna have a look. I wanna seem perfect to you. So when you say. When you give me these notes or this feedback that I can't see, it's hard to contend with from your partner. Right. It's hard to be seen in that way. And so it is nice to be witnessed.

[Mandy B]

Were most of your arguments surrounding open relationship things?

[Jerry Johnson]

Um, no. We had a. No, it just. We had a. There was a. It was a sticky situation because she felt like, I get why you are ethically non monogamous. It makes sense on paper, and it makes sense why I could be. I just am contending with, like, am I or not?

[Weezy]

Did you give her.

[Jerry Johnson]

I gave her my worksheet. My ethical non monogamy framework worksheet.

[Weezy]

No, this is what we're. This is why y' all. She has it in a Google Doc.

[Jerry Johnson]

I do.

[Weezy]

In the Google Drive on her phone. Yes, I would love. Could you pull up.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

The ethical non monogamy contract.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

And if we could go through the points and mind you real quick, this is something that when you meet a partner, you give to them.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes.

[Weezy]

On the first date.

[Jerry Johnson]

Well, when it's getting. When it's getting there. Because what I found was I was going on dates with women who had so many preconceived notions about polyamory that I was saying the same thing on a cycle. I'm like, why am I keep, like, proving this? Or, like, I'm, like, handing out the facts or something. So when you got questions about it, if you say, well, I think people who are poly are this. And I think that. Here goes. My ethical non monogamy framework worksheet. Here is why I am poly. This is my Virgo moon and Virgo rising. Here's why I am poly. If you can get down with this, we can do this. But you know the baseline of what you're coming into, so there's no assumptions or preconceived notions or any of that.

[Mandy B]

September, Virgo. What day?

[Jerry Johnson]

No, I'm not a Virgo. I'm a Virgo moon in rising.

[Mandy B]

Oh.

[Weezy]

Oh, my God.

[Mandy B]

That's right. Aquarius.

[Weezy]

Y' all already got cause, Bitch, I need to know. Okay, so what Is your framework. What does it read on that document?

[Jerry Johnson]

So it says why? It says Jerry's CNME Poly Framework. It says, as an intellectual processor, it's helpful for me to write things out to process, understand and express my ideas and feelings. The first one, why? Firstly, I like to start by saying that I am polyamorous by orientation, meaning that it is directly correlated with who I am and how I move through the world. It is also connected to my need to decolonize my body, thoughts and ways of being. For me, ethical non monogamy or polyamory is directly dismantling the patriarchy. Queerness and white supremacy are direct opposites in how they function in my life. This supports my desire for expansion in this lifetime. Having multiple, intimate, romantic and loving relationships helps me to sharpen my communication skills, learn and address where my blind spots are, and pushes my capacity for compassion, empathy, and love. Love in many forms is the perfect definition for me. Love is abundant in my life and in conjunction in conversation with the universe. My being non monogamous is a continuing conversation with myself, how I spread love in intimate relationships and the freedom that comes without the confine of Western ideals of monogamy and heteronormativity. Also, the word intimate is mostly faceted because it is not limited to sex. It is, I think sex is just a minuscule part of intimacy. And because people limit intimacy to those that are sexually involved with it stunts the expansion of how we can connect and express ourselves as humans. I just want to feel free in my expression of love outside of any binary, including the ones we've learned, because all this is what we learned about how we should exist in relationships. I also know that how I show up in the world in all of my identities with that elevated expression of love is a radical act. It is what I call liberation.

[Mandy B]

Honey, if that wasn't a theater kid right there, I ain't gonna hold you up, Ed.

[Weezy]

And I'm gonna need the transcript for this episode so I can copy and paste. Gonna need that for me. So have you ever given this worksheet to someone and they've been like, oh, yeah, this isn't for me.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, people wanna be with me.

[Mandy B]

You know why it would be a no for me?

[Jerry Johnson]

Why?

[Mandy B]

Because there's a lot of discussion about the act of love needing to be spread. Decolonization to me of the body sometimes is sexual freedom, not necessarily love. And I think I would probably have issues with jealousy knowing that more love needed to be shared, but less that love needed.

[Jerry Johnson]

But me sharing me, share me Loving somebody.

[Mandy B]

And I'm ethically non monogamous, by the way. My partner and I dated the people and together. But the love aspect makes me sometimes, and again, just boundary for me, feel like I'm putting myself at risk, right?

[Jerry Johnson]

Because there's also, I think polyamory is an umbrella, right?

[Mandy B]

It is.

[Jerry Johnson]

You are in an open relationship, right? And in open relationships, different partners might need different things, right? And usually sometimes, like the olive conversation, there's a person who like, is like, well, I can't just have sex all willy nilly. I need to know somebody. I need to know that I like them. And then there's a person who's like, well, I'm just trying to fuck. And sometimes the two of them might judge the other one for the other thing, right? But it's like, this is what I need. I can't just have sex with a stranger or I don't wanna talk about my feelings with a person that I don't. So outside of my partner.

[Mandy B]

So that's a worksheet and under what you like, can you say I love you to someone else while also saying I love you to your fiance?

[Jerry Johnson]

Yeah, I feel like I was. I loved my fiance and I loved the partner that I was, was with at the time. Now, now, you know, I think there is a little more nuance to it, right? Like I like, I'm gonna. Somebody wrote on not TikTok. Well, how are you getting married if you're polyamorous, right? It's like my partner is the. Is my best friend. She is the person that I wanna share resources with. She is the person that I want to carry my child. She's the person that I wanna start a family with, right? So everybody coming in will know that my partner is my primary the partner. And so whereas maybe before her I was open to like having like nobody be the primary, right? Maybe having like a kitchen table thing. But for her, for what I know, right, which is interesting.

[Weezy]

That's what it's called, the kitchen table. I just, I just learned about the kitchen table.

[Jerry Johnson]

Let me say something real quick. Uh, oh, niggas who be talking about kitchen table, but don't do the work. Okay?

[Mandy B]

This is why I need to quit it.

[Jerry Johnson]

Y' all need to quit it. Because.

[Weezy]

Look what's in my notes. Kitchen table poly, it just got added in here. February 22nd of this year, I went to a freaking party and literally they handed out.

[Jerry Johnson]

It's a way for men to shirk responsibility.

[Weezy]

What do you mean by that?

[Jerry Johnson]

It's like, it's like. It's like I feel this so deep that this is kitchen table. Then, like, I don't actually have to deal with the real problems at hand. My sister is currently dating somebody. Sorry. I'm gonna tell you a business for a little bit.

[Weezy]

Who.

[Jerry Johnson]

Who was not poly. Right.

[Weezy]

When they first. But your sister was not poly.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, my sister isn't. It is not poly, but now is in a poly situation. And they were not poly to begin with. Right. But now all of a sudden, a year and a half in he said he poly, and now it's this girl that he had been dealing with from before who maybe they broke up or maybe they did it, but he tells her that it's kitchen table. And so then when she must have just learned it, like me, when she's like, well, like you said, the things between us wouldn't change. Well, you know. Well, it's kitchen table, so we gotta share. No, no, no, no, no. Kitchen table is us coming to the table together, discussing things. They don't ever come to the table together to discuss anything. We don't have a relationship where. Where we can have a relationship. But also, you don't have to. When she gives him feedback, it becomes about her not being poly and not about the fact that he didn't do what he promised him to do.

[Mandy B]

This is the problem with men having these ultimatums. So, like, and if she can't suck.

[Jerry Johnson]

A dick, you not poly.

[Weezy]

Well, it does say kitchen table. Kitchen table. Poly describes a style of polyamory where all partners in the polycule, which is why he's just misusing the word wrong, are on friendly terms, socialize together regularly, and may even share meals or living spaces. But it emphasizes a strong sense of community and a we're in this together attitude, where the relationships between all partners are prioritized and considered. So he's misusing the word, which I think is what and it ain't.

[Mandy B]

We chose it together.

[Jerry Johnson]

I think you both polyamory too, because these niggas are polygamous. No shade. But it is what it is. Because if the women can't go and have relationships with other women or other men, then you are.

[Weezy]

Can I ask you why as us knowing E and M being under an umbrella and that polyamory has all of these different ways in which we set up. Why are we shading polygamy when it's one of the ways under the umbrella? Is it because it's the men that'll be in the polygamy?

[Jerry Johnson]

There's no shade to Polygamy, okay, no shade at all.

[Mandy B]

But polygamy is also the intent to marriage. But when people are polygamous, they're dating, they're choosing women. Financial game, family structure, socioeconomic. Again, that's polygamy with the intent to marry. What happens with these situations? That's why I kept. You know. So if you don't listen to our town hall, Mandy was saying, I'm surprised you had this opinion of Neo's girlfriends when we don't wanna shame anybody.

[Weezy]

It wasn't on Neil's girlfriend specifically. It was the views on. Specifically a woman in a polyamorous situationship wanting to be with him alone.

[Mandy B]

My opinion is that I believe these women probably wanna be with him alone. And they're accepting. The reason I'm coming to that is because one kind of like what you said about your sister. We see a certain dynamic. We hear about infidelity, whatever, boom. Now I have four girlfriends. The other layer was that interview of when he said, this is what it is. They don't like it. They can go, I don't hear anybody doing anything ethical or consensual with that attitude. If we're gonna come to the table together, if we're gonna be in this relationship together that hers is not, part.

[Weezy]

Of her contract is. No, it's literally, this is who I am. This is what I want. This is how I see putting your.

[Mandy B]

Girlfriends together and not.

[Weezy]

What I'm saying is it's consent. People can choose to know what relationship you're getting into.

[Mandy B]

Telling me what I need to do is coercion and manipulation and hurt. Especially consent. Well, it's consent, but we're wrapping honesty in manipulation.

[Weezy]

I don't agree with her.

[Mandy B]

That's what her sister's man is doing, right?

[Weezy]

Because they were together and he brought someone in. I'm saying out the gate. If you're saying this is what it is. There's no manipulation in someone accepting what it is. Yes. In this scenario, where a woman who may or may not have been broken up or was a part of it is one thing. If he's saying out the gate, these women were given what I'm willing to do, how I'm willing to run my house, my kids are here. They're gonna have to partake in that.

[Mandy B]

How much we gonna pay one of y' all? We got an IG live coming. 12 months or less. I'm telling you, when people just decide to jump onto something, that's a fad. Caring for these women, the feelings, the conversations, making everyone feel Valued, which I wish they had.

[Jerry Johnson]

This is my issue, is that there's not more people when they're in these interviews asking them those questions because they.

[Weezy]

Don'T know that they're judging and monogamous.

[Jerry Johnson]

Right?

[Mandy B]

I guess I'm not a monogamous person, but I'm judging based on his answer. And to me, when I talk about coercion and manipulation, it's generally, man with money, you can't fuck another nigga. I'mma fuck these girls. Hey, these are my girlfriends. Hope y' all bitches get along kind of vibe to it. Instead of. As we learn more conversation about ethical non monogamy or not. It doesn't sound like that even the thing you just said about, is it poly if she can't suck a dick? A lot of this is control. That's not poly. That's not openness.

[Weezy]

But I also believe in poly and within ethical non monogamy that everything is customizable. And it's not about just everyone being free to go out and suck dick, eat coochie, sit on dicks, whatever they want. No, but again, it's a conversation. I was very adamant that, that me and my partner, my ex, could fuck women together. I didn't want him fucking bitches outside of me. Which is why, yes, he betrayed my trust and cheated on me, but he also was not comfortable with me fucking other niggas. I didn't feel controlled, I didn't need it. But to me, ethical non monogamy looks different for everybody. I don't think it's controlling because, hey, this doesn't work for me. If you want to go and have a poly relationship with someone else that's going to allow you or be okay or can take it for you sucking dick, go be with that person.

[Mandy B]

But that doesn't go deep.

[Jerry Johnson]

Clearly, I'm like, damn. But I think ultimately what I wanna say is that consent is the biggest part. As long as we are all consenting. I do, because I've heard stories of another person with a lot of money who uses control to be with multiple women. Right. Like, I do also understand where you're coming from because we do need to be having the conversation about, like, money playing a part in, like, how people are relating or what people would put up with or not put up with. But I do think, like, we can see that all of the women were together, so we know that they're all consenting. So my hope is that they're happy and they're fulfilled and when they want to talk about it, and tell us, oh, my God, this is the greatest thing ever. Or actually I was upset. Then I could make the judgment on, like, what that was.

[Mandy B]

And that would hopefully be the story. Right. Because honestly, that would be the greatest thing for ethical non monogamy.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes. For somebody to be like, wow, I was treated so well. And then I had these women who I loved, who I could be with all the time, and we all loved the same man.

[Mandy B]

Live casting, a contract.

[Weezy]

Live casting. Can I get a poly amorous couple with two women, one man, combined income under 200,000 that I think, like takes away. I would want to know two women who are happily with a man where the combined income between the three of you.

[Mandy B]

Girl, you ain't watch tlc, baby. You know that black man with the four big white girls.

[Jerry Johnson]

I was just talking about that white woman with the two. With the. The black woman with the two.

[Weezy]

Yes. And I've seen them online. I would love to be able to talk to it because I hate where we have to just keep bringing up the money. I would love to speak about two women who are agreeing to be in a relationship that's poly, that don't care or wouldn't be happier if they were the only ones that could genuinely come in and explain and express ethical non monogamy and why it works for them without the money being the factor. Please email me. DM me, decisionspotmail. We'll get you on horrible. We might bring you here.

[Mandy B]

We need to have Jerry come back. Cause we got a rap. Cause somebody else walking in and I know y' all like, damn, it just got hot.

[Jerry Johnson]

But I just wanna say that it's also indigenous, like the sharing of resources, the community. And so I'm happy to see, like, more people are talking about it. I just am. I just am excited about more women talking about it.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, we've been watching.

[Jerry Johnson]

No, because we get a lot of the male perspective on it. And I think also people have so many ideas about it, but monogamy is the younger sister.

[Weezy]

You know what?

[Jerry Johnson]

You know what I mean?

[Mandy B]

So in alignment with us. Hold this. Thank you. Mandy close us out while she holding this book that just fits so perfectly well her life.

[Weezy]

No, I need a book now by you, Jerry.

[Jerry Johnson]

Not for real. People are asking for the book.

[Weezy]

No, no, no, no. And I got a good writer for you if you want to write one.

[Jerry Johnson]

Yes, I do. I got a writer for you.

[Weezy]

No holds barred. A dual manifesto, sexual exploration and power. Get it now. Wherever you get your book. Available June 24th. Also get onto our patreon patreon.com Horrible Decisions.

[Mandy B]

Bye y' all.

[Weezy]

Jerry, thank you so much for joining us.

[Mandy B]

Of course.

[Weezy]

So glad we finally got this to happen. I know this has been another episode of Decisions Decisions.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Mandy B]

This is an iHeart podcast.