Decisions, Decisions: From Porn to the Pulpit (feat. Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Decisions, Decisions – EP 460: From Porn to the Pulpit (feat. Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord)

Date: February 16, 2026
Hosts: Mandii B & WeezyWTF
Guest: Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord
Podcast: Decisions, Decisions (The Black Effect Podcast Network & iHeartPodcasts)

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Main Theme / Purpose

This episode features an unflinchingly candid and deeply human conversation with Apostle Danielle Williams-McCord, author of "From Porn to the Pulpit." Danielle shares her journey from a traumatic and tumultuous adolescence—including molestation, rape, sex work, and addiction—to finding faith, healing, and purpose as a minister. Mandii B and WeezyWTF moderate a raw, respectful, and at times humorous dialogue on trauma, survival, the path of sex work, and the pursuit of self-worth and redemption.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trigger Warning & Introduction (04:21)

• Trigger Warning: The hosts clearly state that the episode will touch on sexual abuse, survival sex, sex trafficking, and may be distressing for some listeners.
• Guest Intro: Danielle is introduced as a faith leader, healer, and author whose story has inspired a stage play. Her unwavering openness and approachability are emphasized.
• Tone: The episode is a blend of humor, empathy, and deep vulnerability.

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2. Danielle’s Early Life & Trauma (08:10 – 15:18)

• Abuse and Family Instability: Danielle describes a childhood marked by molestation (age 8), surviving a murder attempt by her father (age 10, who suffered from untreated mental illness), and being raped at 12 by a neighbor.
  • “I had been molested and raped at a very young age. Eight years old. It started with the molestation by my babysitter’s son…my father was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and he tried to kill me.” (08:43)
• Isolation and Silence: She did not share these traumas with anyone due to instilled fear and stigma in the Black community about mental health and abuse.
  • “An abuser’s objective is to instill fear…make you feel like nobody’s gonna believe you.” (10:00)
• Pregnancy at 13: At 13, after being manipulated by an older pimp, she became pregnant and hid it until she gave birth prematurely. Her baby died shortly after birth.
  • “I went from school to the ambulance to the hospital where I gave birth to my first son who died in my arms because he was premature. And that’s when things kind of took a turn.” (11:38)

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3. The Bridge to Sex Work (17:54 – 24:44)

• Running Away & Survival: After losing her child, Danielle ran away, fell in with another pimp, and was introduced to stripping and later prostitution at 14–15, initially by a female choir friend from her church.
  • "My choir member from my church was like, yeah, we not dancing. We finna be hoes." (24:05)
• Entrapment within the Church Community: The friend became her entry into prostitution, highlighting how trafficking and exploitation can come from trusted sources.

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4. Life on the Street & in the Clubs (18:54 – 32:10)

• Shocking Environments: Danielle recounts her first impressions of strip clubs at 14—seeing sex acts, violence, and drug use, unprepared for the harsh realities beyond simple “dancing.”
  • "Sex in the champagne room. Girls getting beat up by their pimps...people doing drugs in the corner." (19:36)
• Prostitution: 'On the Blade': Describes her first client at 15, the risks (robbery, violence), and the grinding, unsafe realities of street-based sex work.
  • "As a prostitute, I went through a lot of things on the streets—pimps trying to kidnap me…tricks pulling out guns and knives. I’ve been robbed on the blade." (32:31)

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5. The Journey into Porn (38:41 – 48:38)

• Transition from Street to Screen:
  • Clients included pastors and men from church, highlighting the hypocrisy and secret lives within religious communities.
  • Danielle shares how the "glamour" of high-rolling sex work conceals deep misery and escalating substance abuse.
  • “Porn is prostitution. It’s just legal.” (38:19)
• On Happiness in Sex Work:
  • “I’ve never met a happy prostitute…We know how to pretend. There’s no woman that likes to be degraded. We like the money and the lifestyle, but internally, you’re not happy.” (37:44)

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6. Wrestling with Sex Work’s Morality & Realities (41:17 – 47:25)

• Debate: The hosts and Danielle grapple with sex work’s ambiguity—autonomy vs. survival, glamor vs. degradation, happiness vs. necessity.
  • Weezy notes her own sex work was by choice, not necessity, and wonders if that distinction allows for genuine enjoyment for some.
  • Danielle maintains: under survival circumstances, “once the high comes down…and the sobriety kicks back in, now you gotta deal with you.” (46:01)
• On Self-Worth: Both Mandy and Danielle underscore that healing and true self-worth often make returning to transactional sex emotionally impossible.

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7. The Turning Point: Near Death and Deliverance (59:16 – 67:19)

• Danielle’s Story of Survival:
  • Danielle details how a “routine” client in New York turned into a weeks-long ordeal of captivity, violence, sexual assault, and psychological torment—culminating in a desperate prayer and a miraculous escape when the abuser’s friend discovered her and helped her flee.
  • “I was in there for almost three weeks in his basement…He raped me and he beat me. He was a Haitian man, so he chanted voodoo over me, he tried to do rituals and he told me over and over again, ‘You’re going to die, I’m going to kill you.’” (59:45–61:58)
  • After returning home, she never engaged in sex work again and began healing.

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8. Pivot to Ministry & Redemption (67:22 – 70:27)

• Rebuilding a Life: Danielle did not set out to become a minister; she just wanted to be “normal,” found a job at the post office (where she met her husband), and sought a quiet life before feeling called to share her story for others’ healing.
  • “I just wanted to live for God…I knew if I went back, I wasn’t going to make it out.” (67:36–69:00)
• Love & Hope: Her now-husband encouraged her to continue telling her story, believing it critical for his own daughters and others.

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9. Notable Reflections on Stigma & Healing (70:35 – 76:13)

• “Hope for the hoes”: Danielle and the hosts joyfully reclaim this phrase, emphasizing there are happy endings and that no one’s past invalidates their right to love, respect, and a better future.
  • “It’s hope for the hoes. Because…a lot of times where we hear, once a hoe, always a hoe…And they need to know that…if you have a desire for a monogamous relationship…who in the helicopter is somebody to tell you that you can’t have that because of your past?” (70:36–71:16)
• Danielle’s Aim: To tell her story authentically for relatable healing across struggles—not just sex work, but addiction, trauma, parental relationships, self-worth.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why she made her book title blunt:
  “From porn to the pulpit is going to catch your attention. And it’s literally my story.” (07:25)
• On the self-worth struggle:
  "When you get into therapy and you realize…when you have to hold that mirror up…you look at yourself and it’s like, wow. You didn’t think nothing of yourself?" (47:36)
• On autonomy vs. survival:
  "Calling it autonomy and making money off your body…Whatever it takes for you to sleep at night, it still doesn’t take away the fact that we let people degrade us for a dollar." (56:42)
• On hope and change:
  "If you have a desire for a monogamous relationship, if you have a desire for marriage…who in the helicopter is somebody to tell you that you can’t have that because of your past?" (71:01)

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Important Timestamps & Segment Breakdown

• Trigger warning & intro: 04:21
• Danielle’s childhood trauma recap: 08:43 – 15:28
• Introduction to prostitution by church friend: 23:04 – 24:44
• First time on the blade, violence: 31:09 – 33:21
• Perspective on sex work ‘happiness’: 37:44 – 38:58
• Turning point (kidnapping, near-death escape): 59:16 – 67:17
• Post-sex work/new life/building faith: 67:22–70:27
• Stigma, hope, and book/play info: 70:35–76:13

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Resources and Further Support

• Book: From Porn to the Pulpit by Danielle Williams-McCord (available on Amazon; self-published)
• Play: Ongoing tour information to be shared by Danielle on social media
• Find Danielle: Facebook, Instagram, TikTok (@MinisterDanny, see episode description)

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Final Thoughts & Tone

The episode balances humor and raw truth, maintaining an open, supportive environment. The hosts—while challenging Danielle’s perspectives at times—ultimately create space for a multidimensional, nuanced exploration of trauma, healing, the complexities of sex work, and the radical power of self-worth and faith. Danielle’s story stands as testament to survival, transformation, and the need for honest conversation in both religious and secular spaces.

Transcript

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

When I got there, dancing was not a part of the plan. She was basically like, dancing ain't it. If you want to see some real money, you gotta, you know you gonna have to sell that thing. And so my choir member from my church was like, yeah, we not dancing. We finna be hoes. We had sex one time and I got pregnant at 13 by the 27 year old pimp. I hid my pregnancy until I was six and a half months pregnant and my water broke. I went from school to the ambulance to the hospital where I gave birth to my first son who died in my arms because he was premature. And that's when things kind of took a turn.

[Mandy B]

All of this at 13.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

13. Go ahead.

[Weezy]

Holy. Like yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.

[Mandy B]

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[Weezy]

From the God himself, Kenya Barris comes Big Age. A hilarious, heartwarming auto original comedy about love, aging and finding your way into life's next chapter. The stars on this show are Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer and Niecy Nash Betts. It basically follows the recently retired couple Dot and Butch to her location in Florida, Sunset Gardens. It's a little senior community that is not relaxing. Dot and Butch get into a bunch of mess that push their 50 year marriage to the limit. An ex flame appeal pushing neighbor. It's a mess y'.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

All.

[Weezy]

Go to audible.com.au Big Age series to start listening today at Charmin. We heard you shouldn't talk about going to the bathroom in public so we.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Decided to sing about it.

[Weezy]

Light a candle, pour some wine.

[Mandy B]

Grab a roll.

[Weezy]

The soft kind for a little me time. Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth tear Wavy edges for my rear so let the softness caress your soul.

[Mandy B]

Just relax, you're on a roll.

[Weezy]

Let her rip. Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth tear.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Charmin Ultra Soft Smooth tear has the same softness you love now with wavy.

[Weezy]

Edges that tear better than the lead. Enjoy the go with Charmin.

[Mandy B]

Decisions, decisions.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

All right. I know this is funny, but let me just pray real quick before we do it.

[Mandy B]

No, no.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

We're gonna have fun, but we.

[Mandy B]

No, no. Okay. No. This is how we start an episode.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Let's start this episode.

[Mandy B]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Weezy]

Let me tell you, we haven't held.

[Mandy B]

Hands in 10 years.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Whoa. Or if ever.

[Weezy]

Whoa.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Wow. Lord, we thank you. We honor you. We give your name, glory. Thank you for this platform. Thank you for this opportunity. We come against any distractions. We come against any flaws, and we just ask God that you would just give us the right answers and the right responses. We pray for the viewers that somebody will laugh, but they will also be transformed, healed, and delivered through this as well. Bless these hosts as they continue to bring laughter, information, entertainment, in Jesus name. Amen.

[Mandy B]

Hallelujah. Amen. But also, I heard hoes, not host.

[Weezy]

I just.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I did, too.

[Mandy B]

I heard hoes.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I said host.

[Mandy B]

Oh. Oh.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

We both.

[Mandy B]

Hold on. We both opened her.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Hold on.

[Mandy B]

I heard hoes, by the way.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Hold on.

[Mandy B]

Hold on.

[Weezy]

By the way.

[Mandy B]

By the way. We holding hands. You said hoes. We both looked at each other like. We both looked at each other like.

[Weezy]

Uh, it's recording, right? Oh, we need to click that.

[Mandy B]

I mean, okay, first of all, red heels. Now, I know y' all are looking at your phones, looking at the TV screen, looking at your laptop. Like, did I tune into the correct podcast this week? Y' all welcome Hallelujah. To another episode of Decisions, Decisions. By the way, they say I sound like a black pastor all the time. So welcome, everybody, to Decisions, Decisions. I'm your girl, Mandy B. Well, I can't.

[Weezy]

I'm her co host, Weezy.

[Mandy B]

And before we start this week's episode, I do want to give a trigger warning, only because we are going to be talking about some deep topics that may trigger the listeners. So anyone who may be triggered from any conversations around sexual assault, sexual harassment, survival, sex, sex trafficking, please just proceed with this episode with caution. All right, now, I do have a little introduction for who our host is. Now, I used my husband to help me with this, so if he forgot something, let me know. My husband is chatgpt.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I know.

[Mandy B]

Don't judge me. Dang. Ain't no judging in the pulpit. Okay, so today, y', all, we are the Pole Pit.

[Weezy]

That's the.

[Mandy B]

See, the Pole Pit.

[Weezy]

That's a good strip club name.

[Mandy B]

Look at you. The pink.

[Weezy]

Keep going, Keep going.

[Mandy B]

All right, y'.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

All.

[Mandy B]

Today, today, baby, we are joined by APostle Danielle Williams McCord, a dynamic voice in faith, leadership, and spiritual empowerment. Apostle Danielle is known for her unwavering commitment to God's truth, her passion for healing and restoration, and her heart for people, especially women. Walking into wholeness and purpose. Through her ministry, teaching, and prophetic insight, she challenges believers to grow deeper in faith while living authentically and boldly. She is also the author of From Porn to the Pulpit, which has most recently been turned into a stage play and is traveling the country.

[Weezy]

I am so excited to dig into that book.

[Mandy B]

Listen.

[Weezy]

Cause even just flipping through the pages.

[Mandy B]

I was like, this is juicy juv c just like your story. Welcome.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Thank you. Can we.

[Mandy B]

Okay. Intro. Thank you. I'll tell my husband he did a good job, girl. Because he like words of affirmation.

[Weezy]

Oh, you got crosses in the ear.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It is.

[Weezy]

You have those and you shouldn't even be wearing them.

[Mandy B]

You know what? I am a child of God. He is here for me all the time. Now let's. So let's get into a little bit about you first. So, y', all, this is a whole episode. We listen and we do not judge. Now, me and Weezy judge our friends all the time. But we're gonna come in not judging, because I think that your story is different. It should be told. And I think being a woman from a religious background and from the church, where there is a lot of shame in truth, there is a lot of shame in life experience, especially for women. I love that you are so brave in sharing it and being like, this is me.

[Weezy]

I can't imagine just sharing it, getting to a point where you felt comfortable to share it. Cause I know that you must have said the title of this book to somebody and they were like, are you insane?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Absolutely.

[Mandy B]

All the time.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Absolutely. It took a long time to get bold enough to talk about it. Who wakes up and says, hey, how you doing? My name Danielle. I used to be a hoe.

[Mandy B]

You know, like, you know, have we introduced ourselves? No.

[Weezy]

I feel like that's an alcoholic anonymous.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Like, especially in church and in the confinements of empowerment groups and things. It took a minute for me to be able to get to the point that I'm at now.

[Mandy B]

Ooh, but you really don't introduce yourself.

[Weezy]

Like that, do you?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I mean, it's straight to the point. From porn to the pulpit. I wanted it to be self explanatory. Right to the point. I didn't want to come with no saved title. No church title. People just look at that and put that down. From porn to the pulpit is going to catch your attention. And it's literally my story.

[Weezy]

Did you have like. Okay. Because it seems now even being a pastor, like you're still fun, you're still sexy. So like, there's still some of that personality. When you were doing porn, did you give churchy girl?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Not at all.

[Weezy]

Okay, so that personality didn't bleed in church?

[Mandy B]

No, I ain't giving you. You look like you had some fun.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Okay, now I do wanna start off then with your backstory. Like how early did you. Were you raised in the church? Like, what is your early relationship with the church specifically?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I do not have any recollection of my parents taking me to church.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

My mother or my father did not take me to church. It was my grandparents that gave me God.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

They gave me God.

[Mandy B]

And so what did that look like? At what age did you start going to the church? Cause that's where this all started, by the way. Y' all are gonna be surprised that, baby, it was really from the pulpit to porn, to the pulpit.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Uh huh. Uh huh.

[Mandy B]

So let's talk about it.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Okay, so prior to me in church, I had started in a strip club.

[Weezy]

Okay. Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So the pole pit.

[Weezy]

Literally. Okay. Literally.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So before I got with my grandparents and really got rooted and grounded into the church, I was an out of control teen, straight out of Compton, you know, all of the things. But I had been molested and raped at a very young age. Eight years old. It started with the molestation by my babysitter son. Our black community, our brown and black community don't really talk about mental health stuff, but my father was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia and he tried to kill me. When I was 10. He tried to drown me in a bathtub. He beat me halfway to death and then tried to drown me in a bathtub. I kind of bounced from family member to family member.

[Weezy]

He was having an episode when it happened.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Ended up in LA with my mom. And we had a neighbor, you know, that family friend who end up inviting me into his home and he raped me when I was 12.

[Mandy B]

You're at 8, 10 and 12.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

8, 10 and 12. This is prior to that.

[Mandy B]

And also you spoke with no one at this age about any of this that had happened, like. Cause you led with. It's really hard within the black community to speak about mental health and the things that we go through. And a lot of that stuff is brushed under the rug, unfortunately for so many women and boys. Right. Or girls and boys. So 8, 10 and 12, no one kind of came to your rescue during these things taking place?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No. So at 8 and at 12, an abuser's objective is to instill fear. So the babysitter's son. So I was 8, he was like 14 when I was 12, this was like a 40 plus year old neighbor. So their job is to instill fear. Make you feel like nobody's gonna believe you or if you tell, I'm gonna do this or I'm gonna do that. So I had. I was scared to say something, right? So I didn't say anything. Even when my dad tried to kill me. I think I went to. They took me to like therapy once or twice, and then it was like, okay, it's over with. So I didn't. I never got the proper help that I really should have got through the 8, 10, and 12.

[Weezy]

When you were going through these experiences and you said you ended up going to. Was it another family member's house?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Mm.

[Weezy]

That's when God was introduced to you?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No.

[Weezy]

Wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So much trauma happened before I finally found my peace.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. So 12, 13 in LA, standing at the bus stop, waiting for my bus to come on Fig on Figueroa. Oh, wow. Y' all know what happens on Fig.

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And this guy, and he was the finest thing I ever seen in my life. He pulled up in like this gold Lexus and I was like, ew. And he got out the car, he tried to talk to me, whatever. And I'm young and dumb at 13 years old. He's 27. Found out he was a pimp trying to pimp me. I didn't know that. That wasn't the introduction. I'm just thinking, I'm a young girl. This cute older guy is interested. We had sex one time and I got pregnant at 13 by the 27 year old pimp. I hid my pregnancy until I was six and a half months pregnant and my water broke. I went from school to the ambulance to the hospital where I gave birth to my first son who died in my arms because he was premature. And that's when things kind of took a turn.

[Weezy]

When you gave birth to him.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I gave birth, had to push him out.

[Mandy B]

Ectopic pregnancy.

[Weezy]

No, no, no.

[Mandy B]

So what is it?

[Weezy]

When it's still.

[Mandy B]

Still born?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No, no, he was alive, just premature.

[Mandy B]

And then NICU and didn't make it past.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Didn't make it past. There you go. Make it pass. And going back to what you said.

[Mandy B]

All of this at 13.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

13.

[Weezy]

Going like.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, going back to what you said. 8, 10, 12. Now 13. Trauma after trauma after trauma with no proper therapy or help or anybody older to try to mentor me and help me through that. So my mind just kind of.

[Weezy]

Who did you hide your pregnancy from? Who were you living with?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

My mom.

[Mandy B]

Wow. So she, after leaving your dad, you also felt like wasn't someone that you could speak to?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No.

[Weezy]

So.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And I want to touch on that because I think a lot of young girls, we go through this thing with our moms sometimes. And now she's my bestie. Now that's my girl. Shout out to you.

[Mandy B]

I mean, I hid my period for a year from my mom.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

So it's weird because I also don't know how. Especially like with so many of my friends now being mothers. It's almost like there is no teaching or right way or blueprint for you to gain that trust and safety net with your daughter all the time. It's very difficult.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yes, it is.

[Mandy B]

It is. And so just at 13, there still wasn't that you didn't feel like you could go to your mom.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I couldn't tell her, hey, I'm pregnant. Like, I just couldn't. The words could never come up.

[Weezy]

I don't know if I could have a mom that cool at 13. To even be like, it's hard. You know what? I want to go back to like just thinking. And I'm curious now, especially in the era of like the Epstein files, like I love Deepak Chopra and just found out he was making poems about his lust for little girls. So it's like all of our faves are just going away. Right. I mean, for example, it could be something like, I think Jay Z is on the list because he was on the list for a party. Right. Everybody has a different type of party. Or Mamdani, the mayor of New York, his mom went to a film screening of something so like anybody could be connected. And then there's the ones who were actually having sex with little girls. What were some of the things that you remember him saying to you?

[Mandy B]

Like the pimp?

[Weezy]

Yeah. Were there any things that when you were in the car or when you guys met that acknowledged maybe your age or he knew your age or was there something that he was saying, I.

[Mandy B]

Ain'T gonna hold you. We talk about this 27 year old knew she was underage.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Of course.

[Mandy B]

A 13 year old.

[Weezy]

I just want to know what he said to you specifically to where you knew he knew you were 13.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I don't think he knew I was 13. He knew I was underage. Like 16. I think I lied and said, I'm 16, 15, 16. Either way, he knew I was a minor. I just don't think he knew that I was that young until I got pregnant. When I got pregnant, the first thing was I told him. And the first option was abortion. So I think that's when the conversation about my age came up. Because he's like, well, if you're 16, you can go there by yourself. In California. I get in LA, I think you can go at 16 by yourself. Um, and I think that's when it came out. Well, I'm not 16, I'm 13. And then I said, so he was like, 13? I'm like, yeah. So he was like, I said, so you have to take me. You gonna have to play the brother, the uncle, you gotta do something. Um, and he said, okay. But he never showed up. And so at that point I was still early in the pregnancy, but when he didn't show up, I just. Thirteen. I thought, out of sight, out of mind. If I don't acknowledge it, it's gonna go away.

[Mandy B]

Oh my God, we're so dumb.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Are we dumb?

[Mandy B]

Yeah, literally, like, we're so dumb. So then, at what point was your mom aware of your pregnancy?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

When they caught her? When I was in labor.

[Mandy B]

Your mom found out when you were in labor?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

My mother and my grandparents. Because I tried to leave the hospital while I was in labor because the time was going, mind you, my water broke at school. So I'm like, all right, I've been here a couple hours, it's getting late, the street lights are coming on. I'm still a child.

[Weezy]

Do you know what that meant in your head when the water broke? Did you knew you were going to labor?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I don't, I don't know. I don't think I knew the severity because I was trying to go home. Like I literally.

[Weezy]

The police came out. What in your head, what were you thinking? Like, I'm gonna give it up for adoption.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. I was gonna leave it at the hospital, go home, and then come back the next day and figure it out.

[Mandy B]

Yep, that's. That sounds like what a 13 year.

[Weezy]

Old they could do.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, I'mma go home and then I'll deal with this in the morning.

[Weezy]

I crashed the car, but I hit my parents car when I took it out at 13, I remember thinking, it's okay, it's on the right side. My mom enters from the left side. By the time I find somebody, I'm gonna take my dad's checkbook. So the way you.

[Mandy B]

It's the process things as a child. The frontal cortex is not even close. Okay, so she found that out. You have the baby do you remain in this relationship with the pimp? Because now also your mom is a. Has. Is your mom now aware clearly of the baby, but the relationship and who you have it with?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I think I concealed his age.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I did. I don't think I told how old he was, nor that he was a pimp.

[Weezy]

Were y' all sleeping together while you were pregnant?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I had sex with this man one time.

[Mandy B]

Wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I had all of this because when I got pregnant, he was like, let's get the abortion. Then when he didn't show up, he said, well, just have the baby. I'll take care of you while you're pregnant. But once you had a baby, you gonna have to get on the blade.

[Mandy B]

What is on the street.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

On the street, on the trail. Yes. You go, I'm gonna take care of you while you pregnant. You had a baby. And then you gonna have to get.

[Mandy B]

To work because you a bottom bitch.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Now at this point. Yeah. Yeah. I said, never. No, no, no. I said no. And it was funny that I said I had enough sense to say no to him, but not to the girl that introduced me to the actual institution.

[Weezy]

You tied it to romance or.

[Mandy B]

We also tied. We don't a lot of times tie harm to women as a woman, especially young, especially if they become friends. Like, you don't think a friend is gonna put you into some shit so the baby doesn't make it. You're 13. Let's fast forward a little bit to this introduction and who it was, where it was. Cause it was in the church.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Absolutely.

[Mandy B]

So let's get to. You are a stripper.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Mm.

[Mandy B]

You.

[Weezy]

How old were you when you started stripping?

[Mandy B]

Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Stripper. So I ran away after the baby. I just ran away. Rebellion kicked in. My mom is like, how did you have all these questions? I don't wanna talk. I'm mad. I run away, get a fake id, run away with another pimp.

[Weezy]

Did you know he was.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I didn't at first. But the difference between him and the baby dad was he didn't force me or try to get me to do it. He offered. I was like, no. The problem with him was this is where the strip club came in. He was like, Mr. Jekyll. What'd they say? Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde. Yes. He was really nice when he was sober, but when he would get high on coke, he would beat the crap out of me. And he was a dope dealer, so one of his customers was a stripper. So when she would buy her little stuff from him, she'd see Me all beat up and she's like, hey, you ain't gotta deal with this. You can come to the club with me and make some money. So in her mind, she was helping me.

[Weezy]

Well, I mean, she kind of was.

[Mandy B]

In a sense, innocence, innocent.

[Weezy]

And how old are you now?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I'm almost 40 now.

[Mandy B]

No, no, no, no, no, not now. Oh, okay.

[Weezy]

Let me just.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I'm almost. Okay.

[Weezy]

But in the time of the story.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I was 14 at this time.

[Weezy]

Whoa. Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So I started dancing, but with a fake id. With a fake id. But it was some grown people stuff going on in the strip club that a 14 year old wasn't ready for. And so I was like, nah, I can't do it.

[Weezy]

Does that strip club still exist today?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Um, that was the after hours in la.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So I don't know if they're still open, but it was the after hours and it was a lot of stuff going on at 14.

[Mandy B]

What were some of the things that, like, at that age you saw and were wowed by, like, being in that type of environment?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Sex in the champagne room. Girls getting beat up by their pimps. Cause the money wasn't enough. People doing drugs in the corner. What Ebony from Players Club said, I just came to dance for y'.

[Weezy]

All.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I just came to dance. But they wanted. They was like, nah.

[Weezy]

At that time, how much do you remember sex being in the club in the champagne room?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I don't know. When they offered me, I was so. I was so. I felt so disrespected. I was so like, how dare you ask me to do that? Cause I'm 14. So when I hear strip club, I hear dancing.

[Mandy B]

Dancing?

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I'm thinking dancing naked, dancing in sexy clothes. Not prostitution, because there is a difference. There are some clubs that only allow you to dance. If you do anything else, they will fuck you out. So that's what I'm thinking. But not over here. It's like, yeah, you dance. That's the appetizer. But, you know, after that, we go.

[Weezy]

Back there, we fucking.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I. At 14, I wasn't ready for that.

[Weezy]

You know, I actually don't know if in my lifetime I've been in a private room and not been offered more. Like there was a place I went. I don't know if it still exists in New Orleans called the Passion Pit. And I was only 18 or 19. Went to the back room because my friend bought me a dance. And the girl literally said to me, okay, do you want me to eat your pussy or you want. Have you Ever had fingers in your pussy? Like, how much do you want to spend? And I remember thinking to myself, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Do I have to say yes?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

What do I say?

[Weezy]

And I'm thinking like, oh, these people bought me to dance because they knew I was coming back here to do this shit. And it's not really, to me, something that I don't know. It's common knowledge. We think, just like you said, stripping is dancing.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

I'm sure you had no idea that later in your life you'd be at the point. I feel like any stripper we meet that started at stripping, then it became. It's like no one ever saw that trajectory.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Absolutely.

[Weezy]

But when did you start to see.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It happen in the strip club? Like, right away.

[Mandy B]

Right away.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

As soon as I started doing it.

[Weezy]

For yourself, I mean.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So when I left the strip club, I went to Compton with my grandparents.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

In order to be in their house, you had to go to church.

[Mandy B]

And this is what age now?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

15.

[Mandy B]

Okay. You didn't last very long. You said I was gone.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I don't think I was in there a year.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I don't think I was. I was at my grandparents for a while. But when the prostitution started, was 15.

[Weezy]

Where were you staying? Like, where was your home, like when you were 14?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I was living with the drug dealing pimp.

[Weezy]

Oh.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And then I left, started stripping, was staying with the stripper who introduced me to that. And then I was like, yeah, this ain't gonna work.

[Mandy B]

So in your grandparents home, the rule was that you had to go to church.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Gotta go to church.

[Mandy B]

Okay. So by 15, church is introduced.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

At this point, did you feel like church would be like, now this new reawakening or rebirth or you felt safe?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

Like their church was. Okay, let's get into the. You getting into church?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. So I got into. I got into stability with my grandparents. It was stability I got into. Got back into school because I had dropped out of school, obviously. So I got back into school, got me a little summer job, and then they had me in church all day. Every day.

[Mandy B]

Not all day.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, my gosh.

[Mandy B]

Oh, you had those type of grandparents?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I had those type of grandparents. It was something every day. And so I was like, you know what? Since I'm gonna be here, I might as well do something, find something I enjoy. And at that time, I wanted to sing. And so I joined the youth choir. And so I was singing for Jesus and I befriended this young lady in the choir. You know, my grandparents knew her mother and I knew her from visiting the church. And then when I joined the choir, we really got together.

[Mandy B]

Y' all were the same age?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No, she was 18, I was 15. And one day, she pulled me to the side after choir rehearsal, Pulled me to the side. And she was like, I know you used to dance. I'm like, well, how you know that? How you know I used to dance?

[Mandy B]

Your grandparents run their mouth, child.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

You know, they talk.

[Mandy B]

Your grandparents ran down.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Y' all know Danielle doing good now. She was out in that strip club, but she over here with us. Yeah, you already know.

[Weezy]

They were probably real proud. Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And so she was like, I know you used to dance. And I'm like. She was like, but don't trip. I dance too present tense. And so I'm like, okay. And so she was like, you don't have to stay with your grandparents. I got my own place. She was like, look outside. You see my car? She was like, I'm dancing and you can come stay with me and we'll dance together. So I'm like, you know, okay. You know, this is my friend. This is my girl. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I run away from stability. I run away from my safe place to go move in with my friend to dance. However, when I got there, dancing was not a part of the plan. She was basically like, dancing ain't it. If you want to see some real money, you gotta. You know, you gonna have to sell that thing. And so my choir member from my church was like, yeah, we not dancing. We finna be hoes.

[Weezy]

Did she want some of your money?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No.

[Weezy]

She wanted a little partner in crying.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

She wanted a partner in crime. I later found out she was with a pimp. It was a scheme that Todd set up. She didn't tell me at first.

[Mandy B]

Not a scheme that Todd set up.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I didn't know at first, but it didn't get me.

[Mandy B]

I knew she. Did she not hit with girl. That's the Housewives. Oh, okay.

[Weezy]

Oh, Pastor Todd.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No, wait.

[Mandy B]

Todd is Candy Hut ex husband. Todd is a.

[Weezy]

That's his name. Candy's husband.

[Mandy B]

What's Todd?

[Weezy]

Where is he?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Where you be?

[Weezy]

I don't know.

[Mandy B]

She is a TLC girl.

[Weezy]

Now you bring up a fat white lady in Nigerian. I know who it is.

[Mandy B]

I'mma help her, okay? While she coming down to Atlanta. She needs to know. Housewives of Atlanta. Okay, bruh?

[Weezy]

It's embarrassing.

[Mandy B]

Okay, well. Cause even my baby daddy know Potomac.

[Weezy]

I be like, please.

[Mandy B]

But this. That's Mama Joyce said that.

[Weezy]

Anyway.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Anyway.

[Mandy B]

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[Weezy]

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[Mandy B]

So it was a scheme that she probably set up with her pimp.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Absolutely.

[Mandy B]

To bring you into the fold. What transpired from there? How long were you doing this? Because I ain't gonna hold you. God damn. This is once every year. It's like trauma. Oh, sorry, I can't say got. I said got.

[Weezy]

You gotta say got.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Got. Got. That was got got.

[Mandy B]

Damn.

[Weezy]

Uh huh.

[Mandy B]

My bad. Oops, sorry y'.

[Weezy]

All.

[Mandy B]

If y' all are watching this on the video, we came in our church fit. You know, church fit ain't no cleavage. Sorry fellas, Ain't no cleavage.

[Weezy]

The cherries give horror for you.

[Mandy B]

They match the shirt.

[Weezy]

She said to good these hoes today.

[Mandy B]

You know what?

[Weezy]

I would like to play it Back and I'm a teacher.

[Mandy B]

Oh, we don't play it back if.

[Weezy]

We had to subtitle it. I bet you ain't in here.

[Mandy B]

He didn't hear the tss, but okay. So what ended up happening during this time that you're with this friend and her pimp?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I wasn't with the pimp.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Weezy]

No.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So just with her. She basically got me ready for the first date. You know, we went. I literally went from singing for Jesus at our church to now she's dressing me up.

[Weezy]

How did she find you?

[Mandy B]

I'm on some bow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

What were you like?

[Mandy B]

I was singing to Jesus to humming on bow. No, I can't say that. Sorry, y'.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

All.

[Mandy B]

Sorry. Okay. I'm just gonna be.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Well, you ain't.

[Mandy B]

You ain't wrong.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

You ain't wrong, but. Yeah. So she just got me ready for the first date.

[Mandy B]

What were.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

What were.

[Mandy B]

How were you feeling? Like? Do you remember? Like, even some nerves.

[Weezy]

She told you?

[Mandy B]

Like, yeah. What did she tell you? How does she prepare you?

[Weezy]

Like, did she tell you about condoms or maybe, like, what to put on? Like, what was that first experience like?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I mean, it was a whole rundown, and I think it just was like, have you ever just sat there, just you hear them? But it's like an outer body experience. Like, I'm really getting ready for this. And then she was like, well, I got something to calm you down. So not only did the choir member introduce me to the prostitution, she introduced me to drugs. So I started with the cocaine and the X and all that.

[Weezy]

Hold on. Coke calms you down. Or maybe she just wanted you out your head.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, I mean, you would know.

[Weezy]

Oh, no, that's why I said, I don't know what she talking about. I thought it was for the turn up.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No, it was. I don't know if she was just trying to come, you know, get you out your. Your sobriety, get you in another place. So it was just interesting.

[Weezy]

Oh, you know what? Confidence.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

There you go.

[Weezy]

There you go.

[Mandy B]

Coke and confidence.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

So, wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I don't think you ever forget your first. Your first client.

[Mandy B]

What was he like?

[Weezy]

Was he white? Was he black?

[Mandy B]

Was he old? Was he young?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Was he old?

[Mandy B]

Was he fat? Was he thin?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

They always tell you, don't do black. Don't go black because he's either a pimp or a police. So he was Armenian. It was in the Valley in la.

[Mandy B]

I've never heard that. I always hear, don't go black because they got big dicks. That's what I heard. Wait.

[Weezy]

Because if you look. For those of you that may not know what we talk about, if you are ever on a site or you're ever seeing women talk about who they're looking for, they'll list out that they won't take black men. A lot of sex workers, black women.

[Mandy B]

Well, my homegirl that used to be on arrows, she told me she didn't take black men because her cap was six men a day. She did out calls, but they either went too long, were too big, or. And I hate that she said this, but this was her words. Or aggressive. So because of that, she steered clear of black men as clients.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I was just told it was either a pimp or the police. So clear of them.

[Weezy]

Interesting.

[Mandy B]

Okay, so your first client was Armenian.

[Weezy]

Armenian, that's very Louisiana.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Very much so. In the Valley. Yeah, for sure.

[Weezy]

He was like, honey, honey, honey.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Weezy]

What was your name?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

What was my name? I don't remember. I know they used to call me Lil Bit before I changed my name to Queen.

[Weezy]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So I think I was just going by that because I always was short and I was smaller in stature, so I just went by that.

[Weezy]

And were you in a car? Were you?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I was in the car, yeah. She took me straight to the Blade.

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

You were on the blade at 15?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

At 15 years old.

[Weezy]

Where's the blade? Cause I've heard about fig.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Maybe we could. If you could give context.

[Weezy]

I know people may not know Fig.

[Mandy B]

Didn't they do a documentary about this particular strip? I thought you talked about it there.

[Weezy]

Yeah, I just know about fig.

[Mandy B]

Ok.

[Weezy]

But I've never heard of the Blade.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So in the Valley, you got Sherman Oaks, Sherman Way. You have places in, like. Where are some other ones? Obviously Sunset, you know, Hollywood Boulevard, things of that nature. Yeah.

[Weezy]

Wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

So this is still today, then? A place where you can get.

[Mandy B]

Okay, so you're 15, you've had your first John. Does it get easier, harder? Do you disconnect? And then we gonna get to you going back to the place that brought you this. But what. How long were you. Were you doing prostitution and then it. Did it go to porn from there?

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Okay. Girl, you did all.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

All the time.

[Weezy]

I'd like to ask you a question that might be uncomfortable, but I'm curious. A lot of my friends that do sex work, we may laugh about the fun moments together or something silly like, girl, he could get up. He wanted this. What was the scariest moment for you?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, we gonna get there.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, it got real bad. I think that was the Turning point. The scariest moment was my turning point.

[Mandy B]

Was your turning point.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

However, before I got there, I went through things like pimps trying to kidnap me and, you know, tricks, pulling out guns and knives. I've been robbed on a blade, on the track or whatever they call it.

[Weezy]

Were you getting robbed because you weren't giving the money away, so you had the money on you?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Well, some people go out there to rob the prostitutes because they know they getting cash. This was way before cash. Apps and squares and Venmo and PayPal. You know, it was a. It was a cash transaction.

[Mandy B]

So we only had Western Union back then. That's all you had to go to the public.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. So for the most part, a lot of men and women know that that's an easy lick. Go out there with the women are a little bit more or less vulnerable than men, you know, they're less of a threat than a man. So a easy hit is to go on the track and hit a prostitute, get her money or whatever. So I went through a lot of that.

[Weezy]

What percentage of men were trying to do things without condoms?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

You know, I didn't really run into that a lot. I mean, you have a few, but I didn't really run into that a lot. I think I started seeing that more so in the porn industry when my clientele changed.

[Weezy]

Wow.

[Mandy B]

Now that's what I want to get to.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

So you go from prostitution on the blade to porn. So doing it on video. Now you talk about your clientele.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Uh huh.

[Mandy B]

And it brought you kind of back to the church just a little bit. Kind of, sort of. Well, okay, I need to know about your clientele. That was God fearing men.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. So even before, I think before porn, a lot of my clients were pastors.

[Mandy B]

Now this is interesting.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Men in church.

[Weezy]

Yeah. You said you just left Orlando. Do you remember hearing a story about new destiny? Mm.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Mm.

[Weezy]

There was a church I went to growing up in Orlando and the pastor of the church died in New York in a hotel room, they said, of a cocaine overdose. And he was with a sex worker, his wife, and now, I think with a new husband, now runs that church. Maybe she named it something else. But I had heard my whole life that like the highest paying customers or like the most frequent or sexy to talk about. Just crazy in a story. We're always pastors and policemen.

[Mandy B]

They told you they was pastors?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Some of them, yeah.

[Mandy B]

Did they have kicks where they was like, ooh, call me pastor. Like, like, how did you know?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Like, well, some of them were well known. So I just kind of knew. Oh, yeah. Some of them were well known. I ran into some in church because. So this is the thing.

[Mandy B]

I would have paid to see their face when I saw you.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So it was times where, like I said, prostituting. Before I got into the porn industry, I still went to church. Like, it didn't matter what I did. I was on drugs at this point. I was prostituting, stripping, selling dope in and out of jail, but I still went to church. And I thank God that my grandparents gave me that, because even though I was living while I was wild, but I still had that relationship with God. People say you're a hypocrite or whatever.

[Weezy]

You know, like, for those of us, I feel like I'm someone that casually goes. When it's a holiday or a friend drags me. Right.

[Mandy B]

When a friend dragged me.

[Weezy]

And when it happens, there's something I want to change that day. How did that never happen or did it did happen?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It happened. But then when the money gets low, that flesh rises again.

[Weezy]

So when you go to church, you'd be like, I'm doing the wrong thing.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Of course. Yeah. Especially if that message is right, that song is right. And then it's like, dang, I'm gonna go to the club. Or I just left a married man. Or I just left doing this. You know, it would hit. But, you know, you have to make a decision, and sometimes we just not ready to make that decision. And so I would be in church, and then I see the dude that I was just with the other night, and that's how I will find out. A lot of them had positions in church. They were pastors, deacons, ministers, or whatever, just by trying to go worship. I had times where I was literally in worship, crying, snotting, ugly crying, and want to tap me on my shoulder and it'll be one of my clients.

[Weezy]

Wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Weezy]

What?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It was very.

[Weezy]

With their family.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

With their families.

[Weezy]

What about something. I'm curious too. Like, you're almost 40. This is happening to you as a teenager. Yeah. Do we think sex work is so immoral and bad now?

[Mandy B]

What is your opinion in comparison?

[Weezy]

You were basically saying that at the time you felt like you were doing the wrong thing.

[Mandy B]

I mean, but also back then, I remember when I was one of my close friends, her sister was a dancer at Magic City. And back then, being a stripper was so taboo. You didn't. They. They weren't proud, but they made money. And they were the girls in the strip club. Right. But now with only Fans and with, you know, the, like, IG models, we know what some of them are doing on the trips that they go to. It's a lot more normalized sex work now than it was back then.

[Weezy]

I think normal more than today.

[Mandy B]

You think?

[Weezy]

No, I'm. I'm like. Direct question. Do you think it's wrong?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yes.

[Weezy]

Oh, you do?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

And so knowing that one, somebody could be happy and doing legal sex work. And even if it's something like a virtual sexual relationship, just sharing nude photos, you feel like it's wrong or you believe that it is wrong because of the Bible. Where does that come from?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I've never met a happy prostitute.

[Weezy]

Ooh.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

We know how to pretend there's no woman that likes to be degraded. We like the money and the lifestyle. There's no woman who will sit down. They'll tell you, oh, yeah, I'm getting money. I'm getting all of that. That's great. We gonna portray that. Especially if you have celebrity clientele. Especially if you're buying bags and you're living a luxurious lifestyle, but internally, you're not happy.

[Weezy]

Now, what about sex for money? What about if it's porn and it's. Or it's stripping or even if they're making money off their feet?

[Mandy B]

Sex work. That's what she's. Porn is.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Right.

[Weezy]

But she said prostitute, so I want to know.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Porn is prostitution. It's just legal.

[Weezy]

Is there any kind of sex work that you think is moral?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No.

[Weezy]

Does that come from experience or. Because you're a pastor now, you know so much more and maybe have such a close relationship to God. I want to know if it's because your experience pushed it away or if your relationship with God is telling you that.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Both my experience and then obviously my relationship with God. But even before I was really rooted into that as a woman who did it. It's. No. We know how to make it look good. Especially when I got into porn. Shout out to my best friend, Shawna, our mutual friend. I met her on the porn set.

[Mandy B]

Oh, wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So we literally met when I was 18 years old on the porn set. We were doing an orgy scene. That's how we met. That's how me and my best friend met. I was 18 years old, and we just hit it off and we became really good friends. And we're friends to this day. I'm the godmother to her child. She introduced me. Cause I was hood. You know what I'm saying? I was one of them. I was hood. Okay? I was from Compton. I was one of them hood strippers fighting in the clubs and all that. When I got with Shawna, it was like, you can't do that because we have a different crowd. I hang out with a different type of people. And that's when I was introduced to the celebrities, the rappers, the ball players, the Hollywood lifestyle. And so even in that, with the money and the clientele of the celebrities and high profile people, you're still not fulfilled, you're miserable. I don't care how they portray it. I've never met even the women that I work with today that are. Cause I work, my ministry is different. I always start from that other church. I'm not super religious. It's like I don't fit anywhere the church. I don't fit in the church. Cause they say I'm too worldly and I don't fit in the world. They say I'm too churchy. So, you know, I'm in my own lane. But I deal with a lot of women who are sex workers. Even men who have prostituted themselves. I never sat with a happy prostitute, porn star or stripper.

[Weezy]

Now do you feel like out of the women you know and men, I.

[Mandy B]

Feel like, I will say, I will say in my 20s, they made it seem like they did it because they enjoyed it or they liked it. I will say at 35 now, the people who have either had to go back to resort to it, or the women that at their lowest right now would rather ask me or someone for help before laying on their back, because that's my thing too. They've all laid on their back. A lot of my friends have laid on their back for me. And so I even be like, bro, at some point though, in your big A, just, just go do it again. And the way how they feel about themselves now and how they've worked through traumas or childhood things or their self worth, they physically cannot imagine doing it again. You know, like I actually, I have.

[Weezy]

Friends that was like going back to an office job for you.

[Mandy B]

Well, no, no, no, no. Oh no, no, no, no, no. Not even close. No, not even close. No, no, no.

[Weezy]

Can I tell you why I really.

[Mandy B]

Not even close.

[Weezy]

And I'm gonna die on this sword.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Okay.

[Weezy]

Nobody wants to go back to something that they had to do before they elevated.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Right?

[Weezy]

And a lot of the times when we talk about sex work because everybody else congratulate you when you're done. That's why I think people don't want to go back.

[Mandy B]

You think it's the easiest thing it's.

[Weezy]

The image of doing it.

[Mandy B]

No, if I think about going back to a job, you literally said on.

[Weezy]

The I'll never, never go back to office job.

[Mandy B]

Well, I don't want to go. No, no, no. Night and day for me saying literally, I wouldn't even know today what my price would be like because of there was pride in actually working at Goldman Sachs and things like that at this big age. And in the book that we talk about survival sex, there's no pride that I have in having to sleep with men that I didn't like to pay a bill.

[Weezy]

But at the same time, you get rich guys that give you cash.

[Mandy B]

No, no, no, no. There's a big difference from also dating men who give me money than me having to date.

[Weezy]

Yes and no. That's what I have.

[Mandy B]

Sex with a man.

[Weezy]

I'm in line with sugaring and sex and women.

[Mandy B]

I'm not sugared by any men in my life.

[Weezy]

I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about thin line between cash for money sex. If you are a sugar baby, you.

[Mandy B]

Are a sex work. That's prostitution. A woman dealing with a man with money who gives her money and she likes the man and they're in a relationship.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

That's different.

[Mandy B]

That's way different than in a relationship.

[Weezy]

Is also different from women dating somebody. They be like, okay, girl, you know, he be giving me xyz. This is all just subjective to me. All of it is sex work. This whole hierarchy of it can be.

[Mandy B]

If a woman can make the money to live on her own and not have to depend on a man. I highly think that 99.9% of women, if they had the skills, the degrees, the ability to make money without having to lay on their back to not having to depend on a man.

[Weezy]

I think some of these girls that wouldn't do that would also date a rich dude that was fucking them, didn't care about them and giving them money, they will.

[Mandy B]

But I would.

[Weezy]

This is all of the same and we act like prostitutes that are on a blade or fig are different from.

[Mandy B]

A lot of the she's saying though that none of them are genuinely happy with having to do that.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So this is.

[Mandy B]

They wouldn't choose it.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

A woman who is dating a man because he has money or she likes him or he's taking care of her is different from a woman who has to wake up and go online or pick up her phone and sleep with strangers to fend for her life.

[Weezy]

I agree with that.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

That that's different. So if I meet a guy, if I'm single and I meet a guy and he has money and he's not super attractive, but I know he has money and I'm gonna give him a chance. Cause he has money and as time goes on I start to like him. Cause you get to know a person, sometimes you start to like them. The ugly, they ain't that ugly. Like they said, if he got a little one that feel big.

[Mandy B]

They grow on you.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

They grow on you. They grow on you. But me having to wake up and go and sleep with different men so that I can have a roof over my head, so that I can feed my kids, so that I can pay my bills. I've never met a woman, whether she's on OnlyFans, whether she's on the track or in the strip club, who is genuinely happy with this decision.

[Weezy]

I think that it is different from the level of sex work. And I only say this because I have 10 women in my phone that are fucking ball players that don't care about them, that they're sharing around with different friends. X, Y, Z. And I bet they would do it again and again and again because the money looks different, it's less of a risk. And I also believe that the luxury lifestyle is a high that I don't think a lot of women would get off of. But I'm saying that to me is happy prostitutin now, whether it's short lived or not, I don't think, I think this is all of the same.

[Mandy B]

You've talked about these same girls though that deal with these ballers that then cry because they're not being seen more often.

[Weezy]

Of course I'm talking about that.

[Mandy B]

But I agree with what you said. I've not met one. You saying that you have not met one woman that is happy being degraded. And I think that again, when you reach a level of self worth, which is what I talk about too. So for a lot of women, they don't know they're unhappy because they don't see themselves as someone that is deserving. And I talk about that in my journey with even men now casual sex is different for me. Now I finally feel like I'm deserving of a man caring about what I'm doing in life, considering me, my feelings, talking about that, caring about what's happening with my family. I deserve that. And so now the idea of being with a man who doesn't repulses me. And I think that that's the thing too. There's so many women that haven't gotten to that place yet?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Absolutely.

[Mandy B]

Of valuing themselves.

[Weezy]

I think that women don't know that they are in the place. Agreed. I think that's really what I'm talking about here.

[Mandy B]

So then, I'm curious for you, when was the turning point? Because you. You thought it was all for a while. The lifestyle, hanging with the ballers, the actors, the celebrities going on the trips, the yachts was fine. But what was the turning point of you saying this ain't right?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Well, going back to what Weezy said, she said luxury is fun. It is. Right. But what you have to do for it is what changes the dynamics. And so even though, like you said, all of those things were great, right. But my drug intake increased. I overdosed three times because I could not be sober doing that. I had to be high. I had to be drunk. I literally would wake up and take a shot of Jose Cuevo.

[Mandy B]

Wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Before I brushed my teeth and got out of the bed so that I can function in a lifestyle to have the luxury stuff. I had to sniff a line of coke and pop almost three pills of ecstasy just to be able to get through a weekend of sleeping with strangers for money. And so, yes, I had all of these things, but I was dying. There's a scripture. I know we don't go too churchy. There is a scripture that says, what profit is it to a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? Which means you can have everything given to you, all the luxuries in the world, and still be dying on the inside. And I think that's where a lot of us, that's where we misconstrue the image of sex work. Because it looks like they're balling. It looks like they're having a great time. And they are in that moment. But when the high comes down and when the sobriety kicks back in, now you gotta deal with you. Now you gotta look yourself in the mirror and say, I got this bag because of all the men I just slept with, I got this house. And I'm living in this penthouse in this high rise. But this is what I have to continue to do to keep it. That's where it starts.

[Weezy]

Do you ever have a look?

[Mandy B]

She got me. I'm over here about to cry. Because literally, yes.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah. What you're willing to do for it is with changing, but also.

[Mandy B]

Or what you have to do because you. You need a roof over your head or you need to eat or, like. And I thought, like, that was my hardest chapter in this book because, yeah, It. It doesn't feel good. And when you get into therapy and you realize when you have to hold that mirror up and realize what you thought was fun, the trips and all that, and it's like, wow. Like you look at yourself and it's like, wow. You didn't think nothing of yourself?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Nothing. Nothing. Because you said something earlier. Women who could get it on their own, if we could get on our own, it's so much more satisfying and so much more rewarding versus standing in the mirror knowing I got this. If you did it because you built a platform and you built businesses versus I did it because I sucked a million penises.

[Weezy]

Right.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

You understand what I'm saying? We got the same thing, but it cost me more.

[Mandy B]

Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

You understand?

[Mandy B]

Even when it cost you, the cost wasn't there.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

But inside, yeah, it cost my morals, my soul. It wasn't hard work. If you built it because of hard work versus I built it on my back.

[Weezy]

Right.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It doesn't equal out the same. And then it goes back to self worth. What do you think of yourself to let multiple strangers do whatever they want to you? You don't get to pick and choose because once, I mean, you can say no, but once you're in that room and they done gave you that money, they can do what they want. They can say what they want to say to you. They can come where they want to come, they can call you what they want to call you, they can do whatever. And once you're in the moment, what you gonna do as a woman?

[Mandy B]

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[Weezy]

Listen, I have been waiting to promo this, okay? Y' all know I work with them. I have been waiting for this project to drop for years. They've worked so hard to make this. From the visionary creator, Kenya Barris. From Black Ish comes Big Age, the hilarious and heartwarming audible original comedy about love, aging and finding your way into love's next chapter Big Age stars comedy legends Jennifer Lewis, Cedric the Entertainer and Niecy Nash Betts. Big Age follows the recently retired couple Dot and Butch Watts reluctant relocation to their new Florida home. Sunset Gardens, which is a senior community, does anything but relaxing and embarrass retirement community. Dot and Butch encounter a parade of unforgettable personalities who push their 50 year marriage to the limit. There's Butch's flirtatious ex flame Ethel, who's Niecy Nash, spiritually possessed neighbors, pesky pill pushing couples and the ferociously competitive Steven Aider. Through its blend of outrageous comedy and touching revelations, Big Age explores what it means to grow older without growing old at heart. Listen to Kenya Barris new Laugh Out Loud Audible original comedy Big Age Big Age Age does funny things. Go to audible.com bigage series to start listening today. You know what's hard about this conversation for me? Many people have heard me tell this story, but I do a TV show called Sex Sells and we explore businesses and how they make money from sex. I was brought a TV show called Sex it and they initially wanted me to hold and I've done Sex Cell now my fourth season, and Sex it. They wanted me to cover people that were leaving the sex industry. And I was like, well, I can't do that on this platform while I sit where I celebrate sex and I celebrate autonomy. And there is a big part of me, as much as I can feel this moment and be empathic, that still stands on wanting women to be able to have the right to do what they want.

[Mandy B]

No, I can. And I want to be clear. My journey, her journey we can. I'm still pro sex for women that have.

[Weezy]

Well, let me tell you why I'm saying this, though. I think it's because I refuse to believe all of it is bad, but by the notion that nobody is happy. It's hard to then celebrate something if I think people are going to be in a dark place. I want anybody that wants to make money safely to not hate that they have to do this or feel like they're low or down and out. And that's what makes it hard, because I've felt like that I've also had sex for money. I've been there and then I wasn't. I've had ups and downs and lows like we all have, but it's hard because I don't intrinsically, intrinsically believe that every single sex worker can be unhappy. I think that circumstantial sex, which is what both of you are talking about, is what makes Us unhappy. I need to have sex for my rent and that's tough. I need to have sex or else this is my last option. But there are other sex workers in the world that look at the highest paid porn star or whatever. How come they haven't pulled out yet? There is these.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

You just said it. They're the highest paid.

[Weezy]

But that's what I'm saying, right. I think. And that's the circumstance versus choice. So when someone is making the choice to do it because they're either enjoying they're celebrated, et cetera, lifestyle, but also being celebrated, I don't know. And I know that this is a hard convo to have, but I can't be who I am for the last 10 years and believe that everyone let me say this.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And even with the show and geared to those who want to do, you know, like you said, choice versus circumstance, you're you, you have a platform where you celebrate it. So of course, if I'm still in the porn industry, I'm gonna come on here and talk about the great things about the porn industry and the money that it brings. And I'm going to act like I'm so happy and this is so wonderful because that's the platform that I'm in. But half those people that been on your show, send them to me and let me have a conversation with them. I guarantee you the conversation is going to be different. The same people you have had on your platform that celebrate sex work and they love it. And it's this, that, and the third. Let me sit down and talk to them.

[Weezy]

But I'm in this conversation too, and I've sold myself. Right. And I think, how did you feel? Well, I never had it because I needed to. It was sugar daddies, it was things like that. It was never for food. So it's a different story. Which is probably why I'm able to have this conversation. Like, I know I didn't feel that way and why I said I can be empathic, but at any point I could have stopped. I did that with a corporate job, right? Like, because it was this, oh, well, he can give me this at a bigger apartment or et cetera. And that's what I. At least my choice. That's what I hope every story I'd hear is there was a girl who was safe and I've had sexual assault happen, but it wasn't from any of those transactional moments. Right? So it's a different. And it's not me trying to say this elitist and that never happened. To me. I know why I can tell that story in a different way. But I.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

But you had a sugar daddy.

[Mandy B]

Well, no.

[Weezy]

You had a sugar daddy that we.

[Mandy B]

Could bleep this out. I have a question for you. We could bleep it out. You felt that way. Was not a sugar daddy.

[Weezy]

Was a sugar daddy. I didn't love it. But I also, at the same time, you gotta remember I didn't need to do it in that moment. So I believe that because I've never been pushed to this is it or die. I think that's why I hadn't had those super, super low moments.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Did you enjoy it?

[Weezy]

I mean, my chapter. That's not true. Please don't speak for me. My chapter is very different. And I wouldn't say.

[Mandy B]

No, I'm talking about that.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No, no. I'm saying.

[Mandy B]

I'm talking about Joy.

[Weezy]

Hate my job sometimes and love my job. But what I will tell you is there were 90% highs for me in this. And also I had a lot of business acumen while I was sleeping with someone for money. Right. Like mine is called. I think it's like, why buy purses when you could buy stocks? There's a lot of. And maybe because also I always. My next question to you before we started talking about this was actually, did you ever have an exit plan and what was your job or business you wanted to start? Because I think everybody wanted that I did it. Maybe every woman did not right. Or get their chance to. Right. We're always saying, I'm gonna do xyz. This is gonna be over. I'm gonna stop selling drugs. I'm gonna start doing this. Right. So that's where I'm in this crossroad of this conversation. Because while I feel like God called you to be a pastor later in your life and having these experience and helping people out of that lifestyle, I don't know if it's all 100% bad. The only thing I could think is 100% bad is drug use or being abusive to other people. But having autonomy of your own body and making money on it. I don't know.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Calling it autonomy and making money off your body. Whatever. Whatever it takes to make it sound good. For a lot of people, they say whatever it takes for you to sleep at night, it still doesn't take away the fact that we let people degrade us for a dollar.

[Weezy]

Do you think it should be illegal?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I think it is illegal.

[Weezy]

Isn't it?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

In a lot of places, prostitution is illegal, Right?

[Weezy]

Are you saying, like, I guess all across the board. Like, there's brothels, like, oh, like all that stuff. Escort websites are legal, but you can't have sex. Like, do you think it should all be out so that women don't have this option?

[Mandy B]

I think it should be legal to be safer. It being illegal creates a lot more unsafe. Right.

[Weezy]

Women could end up in agreement.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Like if you legalize it the same way now you legalize weed, you can get it on a. Like it's more regulated. If prostitution was legal, there would be more ways that you could see the johns or you could, that you could share information.

[Weezy]

Agreed.

[Mandy B]

Everything is dark web because of it being legal.

[Weezy]

It's got to be illegal for the safety of the women, actually over anybody else.

[Mandy B]

I mean, just, just from a safety standpoint. But I mean, we talk about it being the oldest profession, you know, and we can all have different ways of how we view 90% happy, 100% unhappy, whatever. But.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And wait, let me say this, don't get it twisted. I had moments where I had good times.

[Mandy B]

Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

But they were short lived. Once the high wore down, once the high wore off, once the drinking, all of that. And I had to deal with the reality of what I was doing.

[Weezy]

The start of your story answers it all. I don't even know how it. I think even your high times are just better than the last.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

Like, to me, it's very painful to be a teenager and go through that. I'm a consenting adult at the time that this is happening for me. Right. And hearing you talk about that, it's just like, it's terrifying because I want to have children. Imagining them just on the Internet, it's like, you never know. One of my close friends, she told me her sister was sex trafficked. And the first thing out of my mouth was, didn't y' all grow up with money?

[Mandy B]

Like.

[Weezy]

Cause that was really where my brain went. I'm like, didn't y' all live in this big, like, what the fuck are you talking about? And she's like, guy on the Internet, boom, took my sister. But, you know, that's what we assume. We think that these stories come from some kind of poverty living, or like, you couldn't have had a good family. Like it's really a kid just being a kid and ending up in the wrong place.

[Mandy B]

And I'm kind of scared to hear now, hearing everything. What was your turning point?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, scary moment. Yeah.

[Weezy]

Like, holy.

[Mandy B]

Like all of this sounds scary, but what was the turning point that you were like, this is it.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. So A guy flew me to New York. I was in LA and it was nothing unusual because men flew me out. You know, this is back in craigslist days, back page days, so MySpace, things of that nature. So contacts me online, said he wanted me to come to New York. Nothing out of the norm, you know, Long story short, he flew me from LA to New York on a one way ticket. So it was a disaster from the beginning, but I'm high, out of my mind, you know, I'm going to New.

[Weezy]

York, blah, blah, blah, I'm going to.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

New York, go get this money, I'm coming back. He got me. Everything he said to me online was a lie. From where he lived to what he drove, all of the things, but the first three days he whined and died. He took me to get drugs, he took me shopping, he took me to eat, he gave me money. We end up going to a club in Manhattan. I'm there to work, I'm there. You know, this is not a girlfriend, boyfriend thing. You pay for a prostitute. So when he went to the bathroom, I started trying to work, you know, I was talking to other guys and he saw me, got really, really, really upset and he dragged me out of the club and he fought me until we got into the car. Now I'm hood, I'm gonna fight back a little bit. But he looked at me with such a devious look in his eyes and he said, I'm going to kill you. You are not going to leave here. And like I said, as a prostitute, I went through a lot of things on the streets, but this was different. He ended up taking me to like this old abandoned house and took me into a basement and it looked like something out of a horror movie. It was a big basement, but it had a small room. In the room was an old tv. It was a boarded up window, a small closet, and a mattress on the floor with like a sheet on it. And he threw me in this basement and he raped me and he beat me. He was a Haitian man, so he chanted voodoo over me, he tried to do rituals and he told me over and over again, you're going to die, I'm going to kill you. And when they say you have near death experiences and like your life flashes before your eyes, it is true. I knew that. I knew that he was going to kill me. It was like after he got done with his torturing and whatever he would get off on, he was very sadistic. So I felt like once he got done doing whatever he needed to do to Please him. He was going to kill me again. I told y', all, I stayed in church. No matter what I did, no matter how I lived, I still went to church. Um, I still had a prayer life. It was very low, but I had one. He would leave me in that basement for hours at a time. And it was one particular day because I felt like the time was coming. I was only supposed to be in New York for, like, three days. I was in there for almost three weeks in his basement. What? Yeah, I was supposed to be there three days.

[Weezy]

How were you counting time?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I watched the sun go up and down.

[Weezy]

Wow.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Watch the sun go up and down.

[Weezy]

It's almost like hearing about a movie.

[Mandy B]

Literally.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Literally.

[Weezy]

Literally. I don't know. There's a Kennedy Ryan books where she has the same story.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Just.

[Weezy]

Cause this is a movie.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It is. Speak it, girl. I want it to be a book and a play now, but thank you. And so he would leave me in that basement. And it was one particular day. I said, he goes. I just knew. I felt it. I was 19 years old.

[Weezy]

Were you, like. How could you not escape? Were you, like, chained or something? Or you were just scared?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I. So the door that he had me. The. The room, he had me in it locked from the outside.

[Weezy]

Oh, okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So he would have to unlock the door.

[Weezy]

This is another movie. This is the housemaid.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his mom. He would let me go upstairs.

[Mandy B]

I'm trying. Let me know yomi if I need to pick up my mouth, because I'm just like.

[Weezy]

His mom was in the house.

[Mandy B]

The.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. One time he let me go upstairs to take a shower. And I'm assuming that was his mom. It was an older lady, but she spoke no English. They were Haitian, so she only spoke Creole and French. So I was trying to get her attention. He was watching me, though, the whole time, and I'm trying to get her attention. She. She was like, I'mma mind my business. And plus, she didn't speak English, so it was like. Cause I heard how he's talked to her. They didn't. So I'm like. I don't know if everybody in the house is crazy. It's like the hill has to have eyes in this house. I don't know what's going on. But she didn't help me. She didn't even look at me. Like, the setup of the basement was as if he's done this before.

[Weezy]

I was gonna say, of course he has. Because if that night went well, maybe he would've let you go.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mandy B]

Or. Or he was just waiting to be triggered to.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. Cause he brought me on a one way ticket. So I'm like, maybe you already had your plan. You just didn't think it was gonna go that way. But yeah, so he. He would leave me in the basement. And this one particular day, I just knew that the end was coming. And something in me said, pray.

[Weezy]

You knew the end for your life?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, I knew the end.

[Weezy]

Or the end for your escape?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Okay. No, the end for him to kill me. Right. And so something in me said, pray. And I prayed and I said, lord, if you get me out of this, I'll change my life. You just don't let me die. Don't let me die like this. I'm in New York by myself. My family wouldn't even know where to find me. They wouldn't even know where to put my body for my future. Cause all my parents, my mom and my grandparents just knew. Danielle just met men with money. Nobody knew I was stripping. Nobody knew I was prostituting. They sure didn't know about porn at that time. All they knew was because I was dating football players, I was dating rappers, I was in magazines. So they're like, she meets men with money.

[Weezy]

She's a beautiful girl.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. And so they wouldn't even know where to find me. And I was just like, God, please don't let me. I done told this story so many times. I don't know why I'm getting to. Because it's so real. And it's just. It takes me back to a place. That's how nobody can tell me God is not real. And I just. I called on him and I said, please just don't let me die. Not like this. Few days later, his friend, for whatever reason, came to that house. And I'm scared. I'm thinking he's a part of it. It's his turn now, for whatever reason. And I know it was God because he came down there to that basement and opened that door. And he looked just as horrified as I did. Like, what's going on? And I'm telling him, like, your friend had me locked down here. Cause he remember, he was in the club with. He remembered me. He was like, you still here? He didn't know I was still in New York.

[Weezy]

Were you going in the bathroom? In the basement, everything? Is that why, like he could did it. What did that room look like that? He was like, what's going on?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

So the basement looked like a regular basement. It was a room in the basement, like a little. A Little room that I was kept in. I don't know why that man came downstairs for whatever reason, but I thank God that he did. And he heard me, or I guess he was calling the dude. And. And he was like, hey, where you at? And I was like, huh? And he opened the door and he's like, Cause, mind you, I'm beat up. I look all disarrayed. I'm all jacked up, right? So he's like, this ain't the same girl that came out. And, you know, I was beautiful and I looked great, and now I'm all disoriented. And he's like, what's going on? Tell him your friend is psycho. He's trying to kill me. Please help me out of here. He was like, come on, come on, come on. He helped me out and he was like, do you have anywhere to go? I knew somebody in New Jersey. He took me to the train station. I got on the train, went to New Jersey, and somebody bought me a flight back to la. And I never looked back.

[Weezy]

Wait, wait, wait. You almost left the house too quick in the story for me. When he took you out, where was the guy?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I have no idea. I have no idea.

[Weezy]

He took you out.

[Mandy B]

So he came down by an angel.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It was nothing but God. He was not at the house, so I believe he was supposed to meet him there. So the friend got there before he did and came in the house.

[Mandy B]

I heard the noise and came out.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

He not upstairs, so let me go downstairs, see if he's in the basement or whatever. And in the finding me down there.

[Weezy]

Had you ever heard from the guy again? The friend? No, the friend who helped you?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I didn't want to talk to none of them. I didn't talk, like, right back in my head.

[Weezy]

I'm like, did he ever say, like, are you okay? Try to, like, find. Like.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I think he was. So everybody was. We were all like, what's happening? He probably like, what? What's up with homeboy? I'm still like, are you a part of the craziness? But when he took me to the train station, that's when it was like, oh, wait. Like, oh, he really did come to help. He really is helping me. And he got me out. I took that train to Jersey. I got back to la.

[Mandy B]

And you never, never went back?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Never ever, ever, ever, ever.

[Weezy]

It's terrifying.

[Mandy B]

And then what led you to a life of ministry and getting back into this church after the church was also a part of this becoming your lifestyle.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Right, right, right. So ministry was never Part of the plan.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I just wanted to live for God. Cause I think a lot of times people think being a Christian or being whatever you are, you have to have a title or a position. You don't. You can serve God without a platform. Yeah.

[Weezy]

It's like whenever I make a post, like, hey, y', all, look out for ice.

[Mandy B]

Go be a mayor.

[Weezy]

You wanna make a change? Like, damn, I can't say no.

[Mandy B]

Golly, ice out.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Like, I can be, you know, for good things without having to really be fully involved. And so I just. I remember the vow that I made. It made to God. Now, don't get it twisted. It was hard because that's all I knew since I was 14 years old. So it was absolutely hard to stay on that. On that path. But I knew that. I knew if I went back, I wasn't gonna make it out, you know? And so I just wanted to be saved and live by the Bible and get into church and live on.

[Weezy]

What was your first time after. Like, how did you get normal? What was your normal girl routine? How did you get normal?

[Mandy B]

How'd you get normal?

[Weezy]

You said, I wanted to be normal.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, I did. I wanted to be normal. I didn't want ministry, and so I did. I ended up getting a job at the post office where I met my husband. Yeah, he was my boss. My husband was my boss.

[Mandy B]

Oh, this is a story.

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Is this all?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

No, I wrote that before I met him. Yes.

[Mandy B]

Okay. No, now we need a part.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It's in my other book.

[Mandy B]

You're meeting your husband at the post office?

[Weezy]

When I saw your wedding ring, I was so curious. Like, I'm not gonna lie, this sound.

[Mandy B]

Like the American dream.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I do.

[Mandy B]

From prostitution to the post office.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Right. That was my first job. That was my normality. That's all I wanted. But in the midst of me being normal, God said, no, you have too powerful of a story and you didn't go. A lot of times we don't go through what we go through for ourselves. We go through it for somebody else.

[Mandy B]

That's what I feel about this podcast.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

This is me sharing my story and us writing this book.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yes.

[Mandy B]

It's for whoever.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It's for somebody else.

[Weezy]

It's probably why to me, when I saw your ring earlier, I think to myself, because it's the question people always have for me, what does your boyfriend think of your show? Or how do you date with a podcast? We've heard that for years. And when I was looking at your ring and you're telling the story I'm like, I wonder if he learned to be comfortable or if he just knows. People need to hear it to go through their own journey. People need to hear this.

[Mandy B]

So how does your husband feel about you sharing this story? Was it a conversation? How has he gotten comfortable with everyone else knowing that this was your truth?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Well, when he met me, he knew the story, so he met me. Like I said, he was my boss. And then we became friends and he's older than me, so he had daughters, all girls. And he was like, my daughters need to hear your story. You know, they need to sit down and hear your story and see what life could be like. So he bought a book and went and read the book and came back to work and was like, I wanna show you that all men are not bad. And clock out. Let's go on a date. Now I'm gonna tell you, Danielle, there.

[Mandy B]

Might be a little too much hope for the holes in the hood.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, no, I. Too much hope for the hoes.

[Mandy B]

It's hope for the hoes.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

It's hope for the hoes. Because I hear that. No, they need to hear that. Because it's a lot of times where we hear, once a hoe, always a hoe.

[Mandy B]

Always.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Ain't nobody gonna wife you. Who's gonna marry you knowing you didn't just do you strip or just prostitute, but you are on film, you know, and so what man would marry you? And they need to know that. Listen, can't nobody. When God. What they say, when God say, yeah, can't nobody say no. And if that.

[Mandy B]

That's.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

If. If you have a desire, I don't care what you done in your past, if you have a desire for a monogamous relationship, if you have a desire for marriage, who in the helicopter is. Is somebody to tell you that you can't have that because of your past?

[Mandy B]

I'm not gonna lie. Who in the helicopter?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

That's my. That's my saved cussing. My save cussing.

[Weezy]

Can you tell us before we get out of here, what are your alternate cuss words?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Do you say fricks helicopter. And what in the Vin Diesel is going on?

[Mandy B]

What in the Vin Diesel?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

And shut the faith up.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, shut the faith up. This is hilarious. Now real quick, also before we get out of here, just because I think it is important, not only where can people get your book, but when are you bringing it back to the stage?

[Weezy]

What's happening?

[Mandy B]

Because From Porn to the Pulpit is also now a stage play.

[Weezy]

How do we go see the play?

[Mandy B]

Yeah, how do we support this.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Okay. So the book is on Amazon.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

The play self published. It is.

[Mandy B]

Okay. Y' all support. Y' all support a self published black woman author, period.

[Weezy]

They definitely buying this book.

[Mandy B]

I don't know if anybody ever sold the book.

[Weezy]

More.

[Mandy B]

I'm excited to.

[Weezy]

You ever. I thought you were going to tell the book.

[Mandy B]

No, no. To know that it's.

[Weezy]

I read it.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I gave you snippets. It gets raw in the book. So anybody that's overly religious and sensitive, they probably going to be like, she's a minister. She wrote like. Like, I'm very real. I'm very transparent. God told me to continue to be.

[Mandy B]

Me, which is, you know what? You're also human.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

That part. You're human, but sometimes the church makes you feel like you cannot be and church people make you feel like you cannot be human. But that's okay. You know, I'm gonna be her. And so the book was written and it's on Amazon. I did the stage play. I prayed that I can take this worldwide. We did a few shows. We did a couple of shows in Atlanta with Young Jock. We've had. Who else did we have?

[Mandy B]

You went to Charlotte.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

I went to Charlotte with Terrell Carter.

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

That's so cool. I went to Baton Rouge with Darren Henson. We came back to Atlanta with Momma Dee and Willie Taylor from day 26. And so the goal is to.

[Weezy]

Oh, that was the play. Yes, I remember mama. See, I know some shows that's Love.

[Mandy B]

And Hip Hop girl.

[Weezy]

So I want to call something for you because since I've been doing this show, I've had so many opportunities working from any TV show, any network. And what I've learned is so many people listen to this show. So if you work anywhere where it could be in writing, you could be freelancing. If you are somebody that can produce films or you just know someone and can send the email, please do.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

If you are an angel investor, a sponsor, you just want. You just got money and don't know what to do with it. Give it to me so I can take this show around and then make a film. Obviously that's the goal.

[Mandy B]

So I've given a 24 cause.

[Weezy]

Listen, you gotta think Zola. And this is way more interesting than Zola. Zola came from tweets. And I think what we kind of forget when we're sharing our story is to ask. I ask all the time, like, do you know XYZ and people. I've given jobs to people that ask me for stuff, you know, so you might be watching this and maybe connected in a way that you don't even realize. But it's always very, very helpful when you're thinking of something. You know? Why else I say that, too? Whenever I hear a good idea from somebody, I want to make money on the idea.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Come on. We all get things.

[Mandy B]

Girl. Girl, I said you having all these different actors. I'm acting now.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah, yeah. Come on, man.

[Weezy]

Girl, we gotta introduce you to Tempest.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, no, this is. This is great.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Thank you.

[Mandy B]

And you guys supported us and helped us become New York Times bestsellers. So if you're looking for a book, this is nonfiction, correct?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, it's 100% nonfiction.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And so is our book. So make sure that you, again, support this independent book. And whenever you get it back to on the Road, Back on the Road, let us know. We would love to let our audience know where they can come and support us.

[Weezy]

And how do they find you online?

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, I am on all the platforms. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. Is that anything else you don't get over channel?

[Mandy B]

Give your name and we'll put Minister Danny. And it'll be in the description of this episode as well.

[Weezy]

And.

[Mandy B]

And thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Thank y'.

[Weezy]

All.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Cause I know y' all don't be too churchy. So if y' all let the pack go, baby. So thank y' all for letting the helicopter.

[Weezy]

Listen, I know y' all mad at me.

[Mandy B]

Rizzi wants to stay a horse. She said this happiness.

[Weezy]

But you know what? I find that it's good to have conversations that get sticky because the thought is still there.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah.

[Weezy]

You know what I mean?

[Mandy B]

Like, I gave the trigger warning and I'm over here.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Gun. Yeah.

[Mandy B]

No, Everything hit.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. I always say you don't have to have done porn or been a prostitute to relate to some aspect of my story. Whether it's self work, self worth. I'm sorry. Whether it's drugs, alcohol, whether it's molestation, essay, things of that nature, or just, you know, the relationship with your mother, your father, you're going to see something about yourself within my story without having to go through.

[Weezy]

Girl, you hold in every trauma. It's crazy.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. If you anything you went through therapy for, it's in that book.

[Weezy]

That's what you say.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Earth thing, friend.

[Mandy B]

Well, thank you so, so much for joining us. This was, wow, different. You know, I know we've been doing the solo pods, but hopefully you like the direction that we went.

[Weezy]

Maybe cussing us out. We have a guest.

[Mandy B]

But this, this was.

[Weezy]

It'd have to be Beyonce for them to be happy, but they gonna be.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Real happy with this.

[Mandy B]

No, this was great. And I hope that y' all see our improvement on our interview skills. They did very well.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Y' all said, look, y' all changed. Look at Weezy's dress. I know.

[Mandy B]

I ain't gonna hold you. I ain't never seen Weezy look so wholesome. She look like a wholesome Puerto Rico.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

She look like she just did my choir. You know what I'm saying? She my choir direction.

[Weezy]

I was telling Mandy and Danny, I said this was the outfit when I go to my boyfriend's parents house. So that's what I consider a church fit. No buried.

[Mandy B]

I just knew I wanted to church.

[Weezy]

And you know, they churchy too. They do a happy Birthday for like, there's a bunch of nieces and nephews. And after they sing Happy Birthday, they start singing J E S U S. I'm not joking. They sing for Jesus too.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Yeah. Happy Birthday, Jesus.

[Weezy]

And then I'd be like, we going on our way to a threesome, baby.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

Oh, my goodness.

[Mandy B]

Well, guys, hope you enjoyed this episode. Make sure again you purchase from porn to the pulpit. Make sure you also purchase no Holds Bar, the dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. And make sure if you want the sex and raunch and the X rated shit, head on over to Shit. Can I say shit ship. If you want the X rated, ship the stuff, head on over to the Patreon. That's patreon.com Horrible decisions, baby. Hallelujah. And thank y' all so much for tuning in to another episode of Decisions Decisions.

[Weezy]

We should ask for donations.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

That would be pass offer.

[Mandy B]

Hey, y' all can donate on Patreon.

[Weezy]

Bye, y'. All.

[Apostle Danielle Williams McCord]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.