EP 484: Heauxing Responsibly feat.Shae Primus

Summary

Decisions, Decisions – EP 484: "Heauxing Responsibly" feat. Shae Primus

Podcast: Decisions, Decisions
Hosts: Mandii B & WeezyWTF (under aliases Erica & Mila in this ep)
Guest: Shae Primus (Founder, Upper Echelon Matchmaking; Author of Touch; seen on Bravo's Love Match Atlanta)
Release Date: August 3, 2026

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Overview: Embracing Non-Traditional Sexuality and Responsible Pleasure

In this episode, Mandii B and WeezyWTF welcome Shae Primus, a renowned matchmaker and erotic author, for a deep and candid exploration of "heauxing responsibly." The discussion navigates the worlds of upscale matchmaking, sex-positive community events, black kink spaces, consent, sexual health, and the liberation that comes from shedding shame around pleasure. Shae shares her journey from a "church girl" to a liberated, unapologetically sexual woman—offering insights and advice for women seeking to embrace authentic pleasure and connection, especially outside of traditional relationship models.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet Shae Primus: Matchmaking & Redefining Sexuality

• Shae’s Background (04:28)

  • Founder of Upper Echelon Matchmaking for business professionals.
  • Previously focused on middle-class clients but elevated to serve high-net-worth clients (inspired by work with Rick Ross).
  • Shae: "My clients are typically very successful, wealthy even. If they're dropping $20,000, they can afford a $200 date." (07:35)

• The Matchmaking Science (05:41)

  • Beyond surface-level “likes/dislikes”; compatibility and interpersonal theory.
  • Discussion of "pedigree" and elitism within Black upper-class dating—what schools, family backgrounds, and careers matter in "elite Black circles." (09:51)

2. Modern Dating Dilemmas: Cost, Class, and Criminal Backgrounds

• First-Date Inflation (06:36)
  • Reported average first date: $252. Discussion about how expensive dating may drive people to alternatives like matchmaking.
• Vetting & Red Flags (11:09)
  • Shae on client standards: “My clients don’t want criminal backgrounds, period...women can have DUIs, but scamming and shoplifting are a no-go.” (12:07)
  • Lively debate about acceptable vs. unacceptable criminal backgrounds in partners—and double standards around gender.

3. Black Sexual Subcultures: Play Parties, Kinksters of Color, and Consent

• Play Parties & Vetting (15:05–19:40)

  • Erica attends Shae’s play party in Atlanta: “I walked in that bitch and there were three different bedrooms.” (17:01)
  • Description of robust vetting process:
    • Explicit consent forms: “What does consent look like to you?”
    • Color-coded bands for STI testing recency: green (2 weeks), yellow (30 days), red (over 30 days).
    • HIV prevention is openly discussed; many on PrEP.
    • “It was one of the first parties where the vetting form really stood out…” – Erica (18:50)

• Black Kink Groups (20:27)

  • Shae explains Kinksters of Color is a 300+ member group in Atlanta, blending kink, BDSM, and lifestyle parties.

4. Definitions & Distinctions: Kink, BDSM, and Lifestyle

• Clarifying the Terms (25:19)
  • Shae: “You could be kinky and not want to have...different fetishes, like a foot fetish, that’s kinky, but it's not BDSM...” (25:40)
  • “BDSM is when you think about doms and subs and restraint...Kink could be like, different fetishes that you might have or things that just...turn you on.” (25:54)
  • Impact play, power exchange, consensual non-consent, and sensory are all discussed.

5. Sexual Liberation, Sobriety, and Pleasure as Healing

• Shae’s “Heauxing Responsibly” Philosophy (30:35)

  • On sexual health: “I’m on PrEP and doxy-PEP…if I want to be a Twinkie, I can. And I don’t have to worry about catching anything.” (30:37)
  • On play parties: “For me...I go to fuck. I’m always in a room getting a gang bang or having an orgy.” (27:19)

• Sober Sex & Empowerment (31:50)

  • Shae: “Sex is my high...I do it for me, it's pleasurable for me. If I’m high or drunk, I can’t recall it to write about it.” (31:50)
  • Discussion of “shameless” pleasure: “How did you get past the shame of the stuff that you like...?” (32:32)

• Journey from Church Trauma to Sexual Freedom (33:11–34:35)

  • Shae recounts sexual trauma within the church and the failure of religious leaders to support her.
  • Shae: “I found God in places the church never told me to look.” (34:35)
  • “Finding healing through pleasure”—especially in safe kink spaces.

6. Sex Magic, Manifestation, and Spirituality

• Sex Magic Rituals (54:46–57:41)

  • Shae and hosts discuss using orgasm for manifestation.
  • Shae: “If he ejaculates in me, I can reach up there, grab that, wrap that around my candle, put my bay leaf on there, light it...semen is soldiers, girl.” (54:55)
  • Laughter and fascination about the practicality and spirituality of sex magic and altars.

• Notable Manifestation Stories

  • Mila describes manifesting her LA home through partnered sex magic. (58:20–59:39)

7. Challenging Sexual Stigma & Embracing Non-Attachment

• On ‘Body Count’ Shame and Responsible Pleasure

  • Discusses how shame, especially around women’s body count, discourages sexual health transparency. (50:40)
  • “Single is always better than lying, cheating, DL, nasty, limp-dick, lying.” – Mila (80:38)

• Non-Attachment Post-Relationship (45:12–46:28)

  • Shae states firm boundaries—no seeking relationships, just pleasure: “My heart’s not on the table, my purse is not on the table…All you can do is fuck me and leave.” (46:10–46:30)
  • She sets boundaries for casual encounters—no staying over, no phone calls, no emotional ties.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Matchmaking and Elitism (“Pedigree”)
  "It's a pedigree. Like, what school did you attend? …We have some elitism and…did you go to the right schools? What kind of careers do your parents have?" — Shae (09:51)

• On Sobriety and Sexual Memory
  “If I’m high or drunk, I can’t recall it to write about it. So I need to be sober so I can remember every…size, the feel, the stretch that I feel…” — Shae (31:50)

• On Sexual Healing and Spirituality
  “Faith and sex, it goes together. When you plug into sex, you have the most spiritual connections through orgasm. I say, I’ve met God.” — Shae (34:57)

• On “Heauxing Responsibly”
  “If I want to be a Twinkie, I can. And I also don’t have to worry about catching anything [due to sexual health protocols].” — Shae (30:50)

• On Sex Magic
  “Semen is soldiers. So the way semen go get a baby, they can go get anything.” — Shae (55:07)

• On Relationship Fatigue
  “None of them could meet me where I am. None of them had the capacity to hold me, meaning I’m too much for them…All you can do is fuck me and leave. That’s just how I feel.” — Shae (46:10–46:30)

• On Kinks and Orgies
  “I’m always in a room getting a gang bang or having an orgy.” — Shae (27:19) “At the end of the whole night, we literally gathered around this one sister and we were like orgasm doulas, like ushering her into her orgasm. She birthed this big beautiful orgasm and we were like coaching her.” — Shae (40:41)

• On Social Shaming & Singlehood “The patriarchy will uphold her for staying with her man versus me, saying, I don’t want to do this.” – Shae (75:24)

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Notable Story Segment: Table of Sisterhood – A Friend’s Unraveling Marriage

[62:44–77:34]

• Shae & Erica share about a group dinner where a friend revealed discovering her husband’s long-term cheating—with both women and men, including downloaded gay dating apps going back for years, all while being financially dependent on her.
• The conversation explores not just cheating, but identity, trust, self-worth, and why so many women "stay for the wrong reasons."
• “At what point in your life did you know you had the capacity for so much bullshit?” – Table therapist to the friend. (73:01)
• Discussion of why societal shame keeps women in bad relationships, and why leaving is not only “not shameful” but liberating.

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:28] – Shae’s matchmaking background & approach
• [07:35] – The money factor: cost of first dates and matchmaking
• [11:09] – Vetting clients: criminal backgrounds, standards
• [15:05–19:40] – Play parties & consent standards (bands, STI checks, Kinksters of Color)
• [25:19–27:19] – Kink vs. BDSM vs. Lifestyle defined
• [30:35–34:35] – Hoeing responsibly & sexual health
• [33:11–34:35] – Journey from religious trauma to sex-positive healing
• [54:46–57:41] – Sex magic, manifesting via orgasm, practical rituals
• [62:44–77:34] – True story: sisterhood support after friend’s husband outed for extensive cheating (with men/women), discussion on shame in singlehood
• [80:38] – Sign-off: "Single is always better…"

---

Flow & Tone

As always, Mandii and Weezy (Erica & Mila) maintain an unfiltered, humorous, and heartfelt approach, balancing poignant, healing moments with raucous laughter and unapologetic candor. Shae is both inspirational and pragmatic, stressing health, boundaries, and the joy of shameless pleasure—dispelling myths around kink and challenging patriarchal/monogamous norms.

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Where to Find Shae & Her Book

• Website: shayprimus.com
• IG: @shayprimusmatchmaker
• Book: Touch: Stories of Pleasure, Power, and Awakening (pre-order available)
• Matchmaking Services: upper-echelonmatchmaking.com

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Final Takeaway

This episode is a masterclass in radical sexual self-acceptance, responsible pleasure, and sisterhood. It provides real tools for sexual safety, explores the importance of manifesting what you want (in bed and in life), and demonstrates how communities of color can (and should) claim space in the kink/lifestyle world—without stigma or shame.

Transcript

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[Erica]

Decisions, Decisions.

[Mila]

Welcome to an episode, everybody, of hor. Oh, excuse me, excuse me. Decisions. Very confusing because these bitch. These ladies.

[Erica]

Oh.

[Mila]

Done met just a weekend ago and got tea for days. Let me tell you what I was sitting there looking at. Which camera on me. On. I went like this.

[Commercial Announcer]

Oh, yeah.

[Mila]

You were eating her out.

[Erica]

Oh, yeah.

[Mila]

I was in her.

[Erica]

Oh, you were in there. Oh, yeah.

[Mila]

I like Impact. Oh, you like this one? Oh, the girl I was fucking with. This one.

[Erica]

We are still on YouTube. Weezy. Can you wait? We gonna make it cute.

[Mila]

Well, you two couldn't wait. I thought we were gonna do pleasantries.

[Erica]

We gonna make it cute in the beginning, but if y' all stay for more than 10 minutes, it's gonna get spicy. Okay. Welcome to Decisions. Decisions. If you want horrible decisions, you can still get that, but over behind the paywall. Although this one is gonna be reminiscent of those days. Welcome, guys. I am just your girl.

[Mila]

Your girl, Mandy B. Hi, everybody. I'm bewildered. And we have a guest in the building.

[Erica]

We do. We do. I had the pleasure of meeting our guest at. We. We were at the same event. It was a slumber party of authors, all of which we have all written some sort of book. Your book is coming out in October.

[Mila]

Congratulations.

[Erica]

But it was a panel of authors that had sex in their books. And luckily we were able to do it at Emory University and really hold space for all of us as black sex somewhat educators. I was the only one unlicensed on stage, by the way.

[Shay Primus]

I'm not licensed.

[Erica]

Oh, you're not licensed?

[Shay Primus]

I mean, I'm licensed.

[Erica]

Oh, Cheyenne Bryant.

[Shay Primus]

No, no, hold on. I'm a matchmaker, and I do have degrees.

[Erica]

There we.

[Shay Primus]

Not as a sex.

[Mila]

Are they missing from a website as well?

[Erica]

No, don't do my dog.

[Shay Primus]

I'm not that person.

[Erica]

Now, y', all, I would like to introduce Shay to the episode. She is the founder of Upper Echelon Matchmaking for business professionals. She has also been previewed on Bravo's Love Match Atlanta, and she is the author of Touch. She is a businesswoman redefining her own sexuality and life as well and also helping you guys find partners by doing that.

[Mila]

How does welcome come about?

[Shay Primus]

Thank you.

[Erica]

Yes.

[Shay Primus]

Your question is, how does matchmaking come about? I just have a big network, so going to school here. I have a. I'm a Delta, so I have a big network of professionals. And so my friends were always coming to me, like, Shay, hook me up. Hook me up. And I just know a lot of people. I've been in HR 1520 years. Like a long time in my field. And so I just know a lot of professionals. And so I started making connections, went back to school, got certified as a matchmaker, certified as a relationship coach.

[Mila]

I didn't know you could be a certified.

[Erica]

I know Taomi just did it as well.

[Shay Primus]

Yes, I love Taomi, and Taomi is

[Erica]

leaning into matchmaking, which I love, for poly.

[Shay Primus]

For poly.

[Erica]

For poly people. So what does school for matchmaking look like?

[Shay Primus]

Well, she was mentored by a fellow matchmaker. So basically when me and the person that's her mentor, how we went, how we learned is just there is a theory behind matchmaking. So you would think it's. I like red. Do you like red? But it's not that. It's about compatibility, finding people who are compatible to you. And there's a science behind it.

[Erica]

There's.

[Shay Primus]

There's. And there's a long history of people who have. Have matchmakers in their culture. And we learn all of that and we learn the science of matchmakers.

[Mila]

We had on the Maria we had on, I don't know, she's from Greece.

[Erica]

Greece.

[Mila]

So she's like, oh, yeah.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

Oh, yes.

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

I love her.

[Mila]

She has some really dope shit that she brought up about builder and like, explorer. And I thought that was different than just that surface level shit.

[Shay Primus]

Absolutely.

[Mila]

Which I thought it was dope. I really like, enjoy that episode. So I liked learning about how, especially knowing that you. She got you right.

[Erica]

No, she ain't really match me a ginger. Let's not. Let's get some sort of ads on YouTube. I did want to ask because I did want to lean into a little bit of matchmaking because the conversations right now around dating are that it's so expensive. A recent study showed that the average first date costs $252. And so it's keeping a lot of people from going on dates. My friend actually just met a guy out, and he said he doesn't do first dates. They ended up meeting first like a walk, literally. And then he was like, after that. I know. He literally said, and then after that, I realize if I want to take you out, because if I go on three first dates in a week, it's very fucking expensive.

[Shay Primus]

That's true.

[Erica]

And so when it comes to matchmaking, I saw the prices.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

And so are people looking right now to skip the going on all of these first dates that end up in nowhere and just really honing in on feeling like, okay, a matchmaker can help me find the one.

[Shay Primus]

So people who come to Upper Echelon can't afford, you know, a first date. So we're not talking about the same demographic of people.

[Erica]

Okay.

[Shay Primus]

So my clients are typically very successful, wealthy even. And so if they're dropping $20,000, they can afford a $200 date. Right. So we're not talking about the same people. But I will say for the people who probably couldn't afford to because you

[Erica]

used to do middle class.

[Shay Primus]

I used to do middle class and I upgraded cuz Rick Ross asked me to match him and I couldn't match him under middle class matchmaker, so had to elevate my.

[Erica]

Rick Ross will be putting bitches on the 90 day probationary period.

[Mila]

Listen, we all have a friend that's fucked Rick Ross. Okay?

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Mila]

Now listen, and that's the truth. But I'm curious now in terms of a rapper, right, like forget the name of who he is. I've noticed, like we've all noticed, they genuinely want someone to be around often be able to move around with you, which to me is kind of like a bitch don't really work.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah, that's true.

[Mila]

Did you have to match make him based off of just beauty? Almost.

[Shay Primus]

It's not, it's not my typical clientele, to be honest, because my clients are successful and really he your woman client

[Mila]

to me because I'm saying he's successful, my female.

[Shay Primus]

So the people that I would match are successful. So I usually don't have a pool of people who are available like that to just hang around and go with you wherever you want to go.

[Commercial Announcer]

Right.

[Shay Primus]

The people that I match are people who have some business about themselves, they have a career. And you're gonna need to schedule some time to go on a. You know what I mean? It's not the same, not the same demographic. And so I think that's where we had a conflict. We weren't able to.

[Erica]

Do you find that successful women want successful men and vice versa?

[Shay Primus]

Successful women definitely want successful men, but successful men don't have to have successful women necessarily because they're looking to take care of them. If they're looking for you to be a traditional woman, you could be a waitress, you know, and they will. So it's really different. But successful women, absolutely.

[Mila]

You know, one of my girlfriends said something to me that I was like, huh? Okay. She said, men that I'm dating that come from a good family because success. She's like, I feel like they'll date anybody. But specifically good family. She's like, I feel like they want Ivy League grads, they want Women that own businesses. She's like, I've noticed if their family's well to do. That's when I've struggled to date.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah, it's a pedigree. Like, what school did you attend? And I've dated guys like that too. There are some people who are chasing the pedigree that does exist in a black culture. And we don't talk about that enough. But we have some elitism, and we have some, you know, did you go to the right schools? Do you. What kind of careers do your parents have? People do look for that. So it's all about, from my perspective, is understanding you, understanding your dynamics and what you're looking for.

[Erica]

I love that you said that too. Cause you're right. Within the black community, we don't talk about how we do seek that. Even though, I mean, when you talk about. Or when most people talk about how we date, it's all that we came from. Nothing. And we came from. But there's no conversations about the black elite.

[Shay Primus]

And we do exist.

[Erica]

And we do exist. And I see it more like, of course, living in Atlanta, seeing how people are brought up and their family.

[Mila]

And I was just kind of surprised when she said it to me. I'm like, oh, how'd it go with that guy?

[Erica]

And she's like, oh, girl.

[Mila]

She's like, they riding horses on the weekends and shit?

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Mila]

She's like, you know, it's a whole world.

[Erica]

They go to Martha's Vineyard.

[Shay Primus]

And I actually talk about that in my book. When we get to the book, I'll talk about it. Because I grew up that way, too, in private school my whole life. And I've dated guys who grew up like, me too.

[Erica]

Equestrian girl.

[Shay Primus]

Yes, Equestrian. Martha's Vineyard going to black yacht week. Yes. So it's a whole thing we do exist. And it's like, we don't talk about it enough. Everybody didn't come from the hood.

[Erica]

And I really wish we would talk about it enough. You're right. Now, I want to ask you just in terms of matchmaking, too, and then we gonna get into the myth. Um, I. There was recently this thing that I found really interesting. So a woman created an app. Now, we do know the T app got taken down, but that was because it was un. Kind of like you could just go on and say whatever you wanted about someone. But a woman recently created an app on Lovable that allows women to do an immediate background check on men. You only need their name and cell phone number, and you can look things up. I'm curious if there are any things that would be in someone's background that would not make them a client. And of course, you mostly deal with women, but also as women with dating. What things on a background check would be a red flag, really. Domestic violence and all that.

[Shay Primus]

But domestic violence, murder, sexual assault. Yes, but my clients don't want criminal backgrounds, period. Oh, but you got to think, if I'm an executive, I can't be moving around with a criminal. Right? You have to think.

[Erica]

Well, speeding tickets are allowed.

[Shay Primus]

Well, they don't care about speeding tickets. They don't want you to have served time, be a felon. You know, I can't post you because you run in front of police. You know what I mean? So people are looking for certain calibers.

[Mila]

What are certain, like, small criminal things that maybe you've seen women have under their.

[Shay Primus]

Like, ooh, women can have DUIs. Women can have scamming things. That's not gonna be a.

[Erica]

Come on, shoplifter.

[Shay Primus]

That would not be an upper echelon.

[Mila]

We want you to not sing this song.

[Erica]

Maybe she changed. Maybe she grew.

[Shay Primus]

She could have.

[Erica]

We believe that felons can be rehabilitated.

[Shay Primus]

They can, but because I know my clientele, they're not going to want me.

[Mila]

Actually, you know what? I'm going to be honest with you. I kind of don't.

[Erica]

All the way. You don't care about a man's background?

[Mila]

No, no, no. I don't think felons can. All the way. Like. Like if a woman.

[Erica]

Wait, wait. We clipping this up. Go ahead. I don't think felons can. What?

[Mila]

I think they could be rehabilitated into society. But what I'm gonna say is, if I had a homegirl that I knew was stealing credit cards before, she's not gonna be in my house. I'm not fucking leaving my purse when I go to the bathroom, bitch, you

[Erica]

ain't get rid of that.

[Commercial Announcer]

Uh.

[Mila]

Cause now I can't even talk freely. I can't tell you about. Oh, shit. So and so, hit me up for a brand deal. Oh, Mindy and I just did Sony hall and we made xyz. I can't talk about no numbers like that. What are you saying?

[Erica]

What's a crime? Did you like acceptable crime? Yeah, what's an acceptable crime? A DUI

[Mila]

one, maybe, but like the Tiffany Haddish. Bitch, you went too far.

[Erica]

What was Tiffany haddish?

[Mila]

Tiffany Haddish is just like multiple DUIs.

[Erica]

Multiple DUI's?

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Shay Primus]

Prostitution.

[Mila]

You could sell a little pussy.

[Shay Primus]

And I Think hey be okay with it.

[Erica]

Of course she would.

[Shay Primus]

I dated a guy who had a DUI and he couldn't drive, so he had to Uber everywhere. You coming from New York, that wouldn't be an issue. But here, he drive.

[Erica]

You said that, like, for women. If you were dating a man and he had a prostitution charge, would you be open to a man with a gigolo? Would you be okay with knowing your man was selling dick?

[Mila]

Oh, how good is it?

[Shay Primus]

Is it worth selling? Is it worth selling?

[Mila]

Is it that great?

[Shay Primus]

Cause some of them.

[Mila]

Cause I'm gonna tell you something I be joking about with my neck a lot.

[Shay Primus]

Some of them need to sell.

[Mila]

Sometimes my nigga be giving me massages, and it could even be me and another bitch, and I'd be like, he

[Erica]

did this shit for money before. I just. Now he did it for money.

[Mila]

Sometimes he be putting a dick on the forehead. It just go too smoothly, and I just feel like I be like, yo, you're lying to me.

[Erica]

But he had to sell the dick to women. Cause you see, nature boy was giving it to men.

[Mila]

No, I don't know the nature boy, Doc.

[Erica]

Oh, my God, girl, get with it.

[Mila]

I saw the Hulu doc. Girl, I need the YouTube now.

[Erica]

Oh, no, you gotta go to the YouTube, children.

[Shay Primus]

It was bad. It was bad.

[Erica]

It was bad, but it was good. It was bad, but it was good. Um, anyways, speaking of dick and all the things. Ooh, after. After, you know.

[Mila]

Are we 10 minutes in?

[Erica]

Yeah, I think we're 10 minutes in. Are we 10 minutes in, Yomi? Okay, cool. Now we can get to the shits. So Shay invited me to a play party.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

And this was. This was maybe only my third play party here in Atlanta. I of course, went to one with Susia, but I know them from New York. And then I went to a. Like, it was a petting party.

[Shay Primus]

Like, dressing up as a furry.

[Erica]

No, not a furry party.

[Mila]

Like, cuddle.

[Erica]

Furry. Like a. Like, everyone just petted each other and gave massages. There wasn't really any intercourse happening, but it was like you could have a massage with six hands, eight hands. Like, it was just. How was that sexy?

[Mila]

Or was it, like, annoying after a while? Because, like, were you not allowed to fuck? Oh. Cause I just said, my nigga be doing the massages on me and a bitch to get us open.

[Erica]

I mean, to me it was. But to me, it was great. For me, those who like intercourse isn't the by all be all with people, especially in the kink space. A lot of them are Going for other different sensations.

[Shay Primus]

A lot of people are kinky and

[Erica]

not having sex and not having sex, but me too. But I mean, it was advertised as a. As a pet party.

[Mila]

Cause I wonder if it's almost disrespectful if, like, for example, I've been at a party and, you know, let's just say there's impact play, and then maybe fingers go inside of me, Things like that.

[Erica]

And that's a play party. This one was specifically catered to, it being, like, you coming to learn about how to please your person from touch, sensual touch. It wasn't even promoted as a play party. It was like a pet party. So you were going in there to literally be. And you could either be the giver or the receiver. And we literally swapped. There was, like, maybe eight different massage tables.

[Shay Primus]

That's cool.

[Erica]

And then you had someone in the Taomi led.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Erica]

Taomi led it.

[Shay Primus]

I love her.

[Erica]

And so she was in front, actually, Yeah, I was in front. I agreed to be her muse, and so she was demonstrating on me. Everyone else had a literally, like, massage from your hands. Like, the way that you can literally, like, be aroused by your hands and where to touch on the back of your neck. So it wasn't like, a party that was catered to sex.

[Shay Primus]

Wait, what my party was?

[Erica]

Oh, no. Your party was party.

[Shay Primus]

It went down.

[Erica]

I walked in that bitch, and there was three different bedrooms.

[Mila]

So you didn't even know about the party until the day y' all met, right?

[Shay Primus]

Cause she was asking, do we want to go to Tokyo Valentino?

[Erica]

Oh, yeah. So.

[Mila]

So I thought you hated it.

[Erica]

I hated it. But I was with. We were with other friends who came in from out of town, and so I was just like, do you want to see the craziest thing and what they like? To me, it was, like, for research purposes, but to show someone else because they had never seen glory holes or

[Shay Primus]

a lot of them are pretty vanilla. Even though they had sex books, right?

[Erica]

Yes. Yes.

[Mila]

Well, you made me want to go back to that question I just asked last year.

[Erica]

And two of them were, like, married. So, like, I was like, do you want to see, like, what a sex space looks at in. Looks like in the Bible belt where anything goes? It was anything goes, but it's not a place where they have a consent speech. There's not. Niggas are in there with ski masks. So I like. And there's working girls for 40 for $50.

[Mila]

The ski mask part is for.

[Shay Primus]

And she has ass up. You just get into it.

[Erica]

See?

[Shay Primus]

So she went, that's how it is.

[Mila]

That's what Mandy was telling you.

[Erica]

No, no, I'm trying not to look

[Mila]

at you because of the lines. I'm getting dizzy.

[Erica]

Oh, no, it's fine. It was like. It was like the. It's one of the places where in terms of being someone who's been open to sex spaces.

[Mila]

So you basically were like, do y' all want to go to Tokyo Valentino? You're like, well.

[Erica]

They were like. She was like, well, I actually have a play party this weekend, if you want.

[Shay Primus]

And so I'm in Kinks of color. Kinksters of color.

[Erica]

Kinksters of color.

[Shay Primus]

And they were actually. I had offered my home to host the party, so I was like, actually, we're having a party at my house.

[Mila]

How large is the group? Kingsters of color.

[Shay Primus]

It's about 300 people. But that's not. Who was at my party. There was only 30. 30 to 50.

[Erica]

I was about to say it was

[Shay Primus]

50 people at the.

[Mila]

How'd you get it down to 50?

[Shay Primus]

Well, it's just who bought a ticket to come?

[Mila]

Okay.

[Shay Primus]

So they. They offer events every month, and then everybody doesn't. You know, you might have a schedule conflict. It's a Memorial Day weekend. Everybody's not available. So that's how that works.

[Erica]

And I will say it was one of the first parties where the vetting form. Yes, I really enjoyed the vetting form. Literally, the first question was, how do you. And they asked this also in the consent speech. It was, what does consent look like to you? And so answering that. And it was also, babe, me and my friend that I brought in the thing, it said, when was your last test results? Because there was different bands worn at the party to where it was within two weeks, within 30 days.

[Shay Primus]

So green. You're within two weeks of testing, 30 days. You got yellow. And then red is over 30.

[Mila]

Yellow. No.

[Erica]

And literally. But literally, the check in table was like, I need your result.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah, I love it too.

[Erica]

I'll be honest. I never had that happen at a party. That's what I'm saying.

[Shay Primus]

I love it.

[Erica]

I loved it. So I was like, oh, this is cool.

[Shay Primus]

We get consent. We. And then, you know what? Half of us.

[Erica]

How many reds?

[Mila]

Yellow, green.

[Shay Primus]

Most people had red, Red, green. Most green.

[Erica]

Most people hate.

[Shay Primus]

We're very like, everybody gets tested right before the party.

[Mila]

People were getting tested before the party. Okay. Because I'm like, I'm just thinking if the party.

[Shay Primus]

No, you know, the party's coming, you go get test.

[Erica]

I was green bitch. I said, oh, you know what I did? Showed my shit from it's me holding my negative sign at Black Market Fleet.

[Shay Primus]

Oh. So yeah, she had just gotten tested. Yeah, we both did.

[Erica]

And then when we did the authors event at Emory University, they also offered a free website.

[Shay Primus]

HIV testing on that helps too. Half the members of Kingsfords of color are on prep, so we also don't have that problem either.

[Mila]

So like are there many I've never heard of besides like, because I live in New York besides the sex club community of like Susie or nsfw. And then sometimes people that do like Chemistry nyc. But I haven't really heard of a black kink group outside of like Mocha Fest, Choco Bliss, which to me is like a vacation thing.

[Shay Primus]

No, this is.

[Erica]

Yeah. How did that come about?

[Shay Primus]

Well, I'm not, I'm not the founder. There are several of them on FetLife. You know about FetLife? On FetLife, there are several kink communities. And this one I like because it's not just kink, it's kink, BDSM and lifestyle. All three different things. And so when you go to the party, you see all three things. So some people are just kinked up. They just want to do kinky things. Some people want to do BDSM things.

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[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

Hey, it's Erica and Mila from Good Mom's Bad Choices on the Black Effect in this mini episode, we're getting real about the sex, pleasure and HIV and other STI prevention conversations with we wish we had when we were in our twenties. We share what we had to unlearn, what took so long to discover, and the advice we'd give our younger selves. Take a listen.

[Mila]

I've had so many situations, especially in college in Atlanta, going to dinners with people, having shots, getting in the car and feeling pressured, literally not using my voice, shutting down, leaving my body. And honestly, I'm still working through the trauma that that has caused, just the

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

irresponsibility and lack of care for our bodies. And now as someone in my 30s, my late 30s, I realize that part of empowerment is also knowing your status and your partners. It's not weird to ask someone's status and it's not weird to demand that they give it to you. Because HIV is still a real conversation and we need to be having it. So getting tested regularly and knowing your prevention options is so important. This includes prep and truly, this is one of the most powerful things you can do for yourself. You can listen to this special episode of Good Mom's Bad Choices on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcast, sponsored by Care for the Culture from Gilead Sciences.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

Yo, I was scrolling through the Sprite Living track list the other day and immediately started arguing with myself. It was wow. Because records like California Love Still Not a Player and back Then are so much more than words and songs. Their moments, their memories, their snapshots of where hip hop was and where it's going. That's what Sprite gets. They spent over 40 years, celebrated artists who define the culture and and now they're turning the conversation over to the fans. And if you're like me, the real fun is getting into the why. Why did this song matter? Why did this line hit? Why did it change hip hop forever? Now, I can't promise you any answers, but with Sprite, you have a good time figuring it out. Check out the full Sprite Living track list and break down the stories behind your favorite bars@livingtracklist. Genius.com this is the Sprite Living track list. Obey your thirst

[Erica]

for people listening to this also. Cause we just had a similar conversation on our Patreon. Could you explain the difference between someone into Kink, someone into bdsm, and someone

[Mila]

who's like, no, no, that wasn't Patreon, was it?

[Erica]

See, she. Don't be knowing. We bring horrible shit over here again. But could you explain the difference between the three? Because a lot of people intertwine the three of them, and they're not.

[Shay Primus]

They're not. So you could be kinky and not want to have.

[Mila]

Give me two things that are kinky

[Shay Primus]

and not BDSM kinky. So, like, having different fetishes. So like a foot fetish. Yep, that's kinky, but it's not bdsm.

[Erica]

Yep.

[Shay Primus]

BDSM is when you think about dumbs and subs and restraint. Yeah. Do you want to be tied up or do you want to be a sub and you want to serve somebody? That's bdsm. Kink could be like, different fetishes that you might have or things that just. What turns you on? What things that turn you on. And it doesn't have to be sexual, right?

[Erica]

It could be.

[Shay Primus]

Also in bdsm, there's impact play. So you have some people who do impact play.

[Mila]

You said you did that Power exchange.

[Shay Primus]

Power exchange feathers. People do different types of things that sensory play that people are into, and that's considered bdsm.

[Erica]

So, like, I've realized that that's something that when I go to play spaces, especially if I'm not going with a partner, that that's the space that I get to enjoy that you like that. So Scarlett was one of the ladies there, and she is a pleasure dom.

[Shay Primus]

She's a dom all the way.

[Erica]

She's a pleasure dom. So she literally before, mind you, she performed. And where I do have my boundaries with impact play, she had a paddle with tacks on it.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

To where she was hitting.

[Shay Primus]

That girl was bleeding.

[Erica]

She was bleeding?

[Shay Primus]

Yeah, that girl was bleeding and she

[Erica]

wanted to keep being spanked. And literally Scarlet was like, I don't want to gross everything out.

[Mila]

It could blow your mind sometimes when you're. Cause I watched a scene once where I watched the ass get purple.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Mila]

And I'm like, I know she's getting what she wants, but at some point when does the.

[Shay Primus]

That's why she's. That turns her on. Yeah, that does not turn me on. I'm not into anything like that.

[Mila]

What are your hardness?

[Shay Primus]

So I'm more. I'm more lifestyle. So when I go to parties, I go to fuck, like, straight up. I don't go to do any of those things. I go. I'm always in a room getting a gang bang or having an orgy.

[Mila]

You're a gang bang girl.

[Erica]

Well, I got to watch her even be a part of a ten woman orgy.

[Shay Primus]

Ten female orgy. So it was all.

[Erica]

All women.

[Shay Primus]

If that's a gang bang. Okay. Yeah, I did that too. And it was so much fun. We were there for like an hour.

[Erica]

No, I'm not gonna lie. Y' all was in there for a minute. And the way it was set up, the room, you could look through the room with glass.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

So, like everyone just was walking in and out, just looking at your house

[Mila]

lit, talking about a glass fucking seat.

[Erica]

Oh, no, no, no, no. It's a mansion.

[Mila]

I think you like the FBI. You know, the interrogation room.

[Shay Primus]

It does look like that. It does look like that. It does look like that.

[Erica]

She literally has a mansion. So she had like three bedrooms, a kitchen, a dance floor like her. The basement of your house is ginormous.

[Shay Primus]

It's an event space.

[Erica]

Oh, wow.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Erica]

Like, to where I was like, bitch, I kind of want to throw something in here. Okay.

[Mila]

So gangbang.

[Shay Primus]

I like them personally.

[Mila]

So my favorite porn to watch is bukkake gangbangs. Because I feel like gang bangs specifically sometimes it's just not enough.

[Shay Primus]

What's the bukkake?

[Mila]

The bukkake is when you're seeing, like the semen. So like multiple people are coming during the gang bang.

[Erica]

Okay, but on you.

[Mila]

But on you.

[Shay Primus]

I'm a twinkie. So I like.

[Mila]

Ok. You want it inside of you.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

And so for people who would be like, all right, bitch, now you, you, you. You said that you like to hold responsibly.

[Shay Primus]

Hold responsibly. You know, I have something for y'. All. And speaking of.

[Erica]

Oh, wait. Okay, let's get this.

[Mila]

Is it a twinkie?

[Erica]

Oh, my God.

[Shay Primus]

Okay, so it's Mandy's bag that she left at my house, and it ended

[Erica]

up in the chat.

[Mila]

You Said, this your sex club bag?

[Erica]

This is my sex club bag.

[Mila]

And I was like, it has stains on it.

[Erica]

I mean, well, this is a wash bag. It was also a makeup bag. So I used to. I use all the same thing. Look, look, that's makeup.

[Mila]

Could be cum.

[Erica]

No, it's not cum. That's makeup. Or it could be lubes, so. Oh, someone took my wipes out of here. I did have wipes. Did you? Uh huh. Flushable wipes. But there were wipes in here. I have Astro Glide. I have hand sanitizer. I have tingly lip and nipple balm. I have a butt plug. Oh, I have.

[Mila]

Who uses it?

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

Me.

[Erica]

This is all for me. Oh, I have batteries in case anyone wants to vibrator. And then this is also lube, but that, like, tastes like second blow lube. And. Oh, and poppers.

[Shay Primus]

And what's poppers?

[Erica]

Poppers is.

[Mila]

You don't know poppers. That to me, is such sex club.

[Erica]

This is very like, I am so.

[Shay Primus]

I am like, everything I do, I do sober. I don't get drunk or high. I just do it.

[Erica]

So this, like, makes your muscles relax. So for me, especially with the impact play.

[Shay Primus]

Okay.

[Erica]

It just allows. It allows me not to, like, be as tense.

[Mila]

Let's bring back to sober. I want to talk about that, too.

[Shay Primus]

I'm super sober.

[Erica]

But thank you for bringing my bag.

[Shay Primus]

Absolutely. And I have something for you. So I have. I have one for Mandy and one for Wheezy.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yay.

[Shay Primus]

Okay, this is. This is Wheezy.

[Erica]

This is Mandy, basically something.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Mila]

Going responsibly.

[Shay Primus]

This is to promote my book touch.

[Erica]

Just give me the meat raise girl. I like the hoeing responsibility.

[Shay Primus]

Y' all can switch out.

[Mila]

No, we don't. No, no, no.

[Erica]

Just give me the meat.

[Shay Primus]

Just give me the meat. Oh, let me explain. So hoeing responsibly. I have a chapter in my book called hoeing responsibly, Love, because I'm on prep and doxy pep. So I. And I'm on the iud.

[Mila]

Now, doxy is something that you take as needed.

[Commercial Announcer]

Correct.

[Shay Primus]

You take after unprotected sex, you just pop two doxycycline. And that prevents chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis. So it makes me, quote unquote, bulletproof from a sexual perspective. So I'm hoeing responsibly. I get to have sex the way I want to. If I want to be a Twinkie, I can. And I also don't have to worry about catching anything.

[Mila]

Okay. I want to ask you something about sobriety and gang bangs. I was having a conversation with my boyfriend about scenes that we've seen at sex parties, and he's like, one of the scenes that always makes me go, oh, shit, is when I see multiple men and a woman not looking like they're just taking their turn or whatever. He's like, I'm always looking around, because at some point, I'm like, all right, is there someone conducting it? Like, is she. Does she have someone that's like, yeah, you're gonna fuck. You're gonna do this. You're being domed up. He's like, but the inhibition. I was like, yeah. Sometimes when I've seen that, I always think they had to get a little high or a little drunk to be able to relax. You may be the first person I've ever met that says they've done gang bang sober.

[Shay Primus]

Well, sex is my high, so if I'm in the zone, I'm in the zone. I'm in the zone. And I enjoy pleasure. And that's something that maybe I do it for sport, I don't know. But I do it for me. It's pleasurable for me. So I am enjoying the acts, each stroke, each. I want to feel it. And also I write about my experiences. If I'm high or drunk, I can't recall it to write about it. So I need to be sober so I can remember every. I like to describe the size, the feel, the stretch that I feel when they insert it. I like to describe the moans, what he says, how he touched me, how he pulled me, how he moved me. If I'm high or drunk, I'm not gonna recall all of that in order to write it.

[Erica]

I'm also curious in terms of doing it sober. I think for a lot of women drinking liquor, especially, like, I think for me, for some things was, like, you could blame it on the alcohol. Right? So I want to know in terms of being this liberated with kinky sex and sex that is. Normally that comes with shame when a woman admits that she enjoys it. How did you get past the shame of the stuff that you like to be able to express out loud? I like multiple dicks. Give me me. Like, how did you work past that shame? How did you get there?

[Shay Primus]

I think this has been a journey, and I talk about that in touch because I didn't start off this way. I was a church girl initially, you know?

[Mila]

Of course you are.

[Shay Primus]

I started off all the time. Of course your Jesus makes you freaky. No, but I think that for me, I had church hurt, so I took a vow of purity. I was like, oh, I'm gonna be a virgin till I get married. In college, I was pure, like, and I got.

[Mila]

You lost your virginity late in college.

[Shay Primus]

That's late.

[Erica]

Wait, wait, wait.

[Mila]

You said pure. And I do think, like, the average age now they're saying is teens.

[Erica]

I mean, it's all in our teens.

[Shay Primus]

It was teens. It's now. No, these Gen Zs are waiting till later. They're waiting till later. So at this time, let's say I'm like 18. 18. I'm in college, and I was taking a vow of purity. So I went to church, wore a white dress, got a ring on my finger. I'm going to stay pure till marriage. Okay? So I was date raped by the youth pastor. When I called the pastor to tell him, he said, what were you wearing? So that. That brought me shame because I'm thinking, here I am trying to do the right thing, and I don't even have anybody having my back. You know, nobody held him accountable or anything like that. And it took me on a journey. And that's really what I started writing about, is the journey to get from there to this place that I am now. It's a big journey. It's in years of this. So it didn't happen overnight.

[Erica]

Did you leave the church after that happened?

[Shay Primus]

Not immediately, but yes. I'm not Christian today. I'm not churchy at all. At all. And I find that there is no disconnect between sexuality and spirituality. So I like to say I found God in places the church never told me to look.

[Erica]

Well, you know what?

[Mila]

Another author, Kennedy Ryan.

[Shay Primus]

Yes. I love her.

[Mila]

I just hosted her New York book, not screening. I love her signing whatever release. Yeah. And we were in a church, actually, and I kept joking like, y', all, can you believe the wheezy stop was like the church? And she's like, yeah, I'm not scared to talk about spirituality.

[Shay Primus]

Faith and sex, it goes together. If you. When you plug into sex, you have the most spiritual connections through orgasm. I say, I've met God. I've met divine, feminine. I've had conversations through orgasm.

[Erica]

You've met God? You've met God through orgasm?

[Shay Primus]

Yes, baby.

[Erica]

What he say, girl?

[Shay Primus]

She. Because.

[Erica]

Come on, God is a she, Right?

[Shay Primus]

God is a she because we have a portal that connects us to the divine. We have a direct connect to the divine, and we don't even realize it. They don't want us to know that. But when we orgasm, we Literally have this portal opens and you can ask for whatever you want and you can get it.

[Mila]

Now. I wanna.

[Erica]

That ain't witchy.

[Mila]

I wanna say I don't agree with this. While I say it, however, what you just said, I agree with. I have seen a bunch of manosphere memes talking about how women also included sharing this. I think it's very manosphere. Think how our body is a portal and divine, so we shouldn't be letting multiple people in it. How we're so connected, it's patriarchy, how it disrupts our spirit, et cetera. Like, have people ever said that to you to counteract how you live your life and be like, but you're doing xyz. Like, what does that make you think? Because you do agree that we are a portal and open.

[Shay Primus]

We are a portal. But think about this. Women. Women don't have a refractory period. So when we come, we can come again and again and again. Again. Men can't. Who are we supposed to be having sex with? They can't do what we do.

[Erica]

Oh.

[Shay Primus]

So think about it like that. Why is your body in the world? Why is your body created to keep doing it multiple times, multiple ways? You can orgasm 14 different ways, multiple times, all simultaneously. He can't keep up with that.

[Mila]

This is a great answer and, like, debate and, like, counteraction with the comment that Akon made about, I could have a hundred kids and you can only have one at a time. You're supposed to only hold one. But I could make a bunch of. We're supposed to procreate.

[Erica]

I mean, I think. I think that they do. There's a difference between reproduction and then also and pleasure.

[Shay Primus]

Our vagina, our clitoris is just for pleasure. It's not for procreation. It's just for. We have bodies for pleasure, like our clitoris, allowing us to have orgasms 14 different ways. That's because we're supposed to. That's why FGM, the goddess, created us to have pleasure. That is our birthright. Okay. And we can have pleasure in multiple ways. Men, women, multiple men. Doesn't matter. So for me, I feel like I'm using my body in the way it was intended.

[Commercial Announcer]

Do.

[Mila]

Have you heard the church say, I believe there was a clip I saw online about sexual deviance and kink and queerness being connected to assault trauma.

[Shay Primus]

Sure, sure.

[Mila]

And in your personal life, how were you able to recover, to be able to live so liberated and free?

[Shay Primus]

I found healing through pleasure. And absolutely, I've experienced sexual trauma. I think what Three out of four women have. I mean, so that's common. Right. All of us are not in kink spaces. But I think when you do come there, you can find you are seen. So when I talk about my trauma, when I talk about rape. So one of the things I enjoy in kink is consensual non consent. Me too, because I've been raped. I enjoy when I get to choose a safe partner and I get to have the control and I get to set the scene and say, you come in through the window and take it.

[Erica]

I will say that was interesting in terms of the consent speech. That was the one kink that they say that they said you could not do here.

[Mila]

Consensual non consensus.

[Erica]

Yes. Just because I've never heard that in

[Mila]

a consent speech either.

[Erica]

Me neither. And I'm really.

[Shay Primus]

That's so thorough.

[Erica]

They were. I'm not gonna lie. It was very thought out on.

[Mila]

Like, what were some of the other things you remember?

[Erica]

I know that that was a big one.

[Shay Primus]

And we all went around and said, what does consent look like for us? So that you would know if I. If I. If I do this.

[Mila]

50 people did that.

[Erica]

No, I'm not gonna hold you. That was gonna be something else. We all started off by introducing ourselves by our names and what consent looks like to us. Some of us said, it looks like a hell motherfucking yes. Other people also led with just saying what they were there for for the night. So, like, they would say, I'm here just to watch.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

I think mine was, it's a hell yes for impact and massages. For me, I was ready to get fucking massaged.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Erica]

And I did have quite a bit. I had like three or four different people spank me, bring out tools. Like, I was there for impact. Cause I knew that's what I wanted. And so it looked like that. It looked like people addressing what they were there for and just saying what a yes sounded like to them.

[Shay Primus]

Yes. Because obviously I'm gonna have. So I only had sex with the. With the 10 women. I did not have sex with a man or Saturday. I did not. Typically I will. But that day I just wanted. I needed to be. It's healing. Like I said, pleasure is healing. So that was healing for me. That was medicine for me just to be with my sisters and to experience pleasure in that way.

[Mila]

I've never called someone I fucked a sister.

[Shay Primus]

These are. These are women.

[Mila]

You call them black women and sisters.

[Shay Primus]

They're black. Yeah.

[Mila]

Wait, wait. But like, I will say I'm telling

[Erica]

You one white person?

[Shay Primus]

Well, not.

[Mila]

I get kink of color. Hold on, wait, wait. Let me get to the point here. Do you. Is it sisterhood or sisters? Sisters with an A. Are you saying black women is why you said sisters?

[Shay Primus]

Yeah, black. So, yes, sisters. But also we're women, huh?

[Mila]

Cause I never like.

[Shay Primus]

These are not like my girlfriends.

[Erica]

These are my partner's. Daddy. What's the difference? I mean, we got sisters, we got daddy.

[Shay Primus]

Let me tell you why it was a sisterhood. Let me tell you why. So imagine somebody's eating your pussy, right? You are. You reach over and you grab somebody's arm and you're stroking it. Or you grab somebody's boob, you're stroking it, they're grabbing your leg. You turn over, you eat her pussy while somebody's eating your pussy. At the end of the whole night, we literally gathered around this one sister and we were like orgasm doulas, like ushering her into her orgasm. She birthed this big beautiful orgasm and we were like coaching her.

[Mila]

Bitch, we lovers. We ain't sisters.

[Erica]

But.

[Mila]

But I actually fuck with this.

[Shay Primus]

It's a community.

[Mila]

I like orgasm doula.

[Shay Primus]

It was an orgasm doula. And nobody told us to do it. We just sinked in and did it like it was a sisterhood. It literally felt spiritual.

[Erica]

What do you call. Because I know you told me at one point you'd done a party where you had seven of your lovers there.

[Shay Primus]

And even at that party, there were seven of my. There was maybe more than seven of my lovers. Ok, because we're in a group. You're gonna see. I've been with him, I've been with her, I've been with him. It's a community.

[Mila]

Has any.

[Erica]

You've been with the girl I was with?

[Shay Primus]

I have not been. Well, she was a part. She was a part of the ten women. Origin.

[Erica]

Oh. So technically we have.

[Mila]

Where was you?

[Erica]

I was watching, but I wasn't involved.

[Shay Primus]

She had her face in some other. In this other girl's pussy?

[Erica]

No, it was. It was.

[Shay Primus]

It was hers. Then she participated in the ten women.

[Mila]

So it was ten and a half.

[Erica]

No, no, no. So the. I didn't know that she was. Oh, wait, are we talking about the. The curly hair girl? So. Yeah. So I didn't even know. I couldn't see. There was bodies on bodies in that goddamn room. 10 bitches all on each other on one bed. Like, on one bed. 10 people on one bed. It was a king size, but it was like a river of women. A river, like upstairs? Yes, Waves Baby, all you saw was waves.

[Shay Primus]

It was so beautiful.

[Erica]

It was like this. But, yeah, we ended up, me and another guy gave her a massage together, so we, like, you know, massaged her, and then I ended up massaging a different. Her ass. Yeah, I was in that whole way.

[Shay Primus]

I knew she would like her. She's so cute. I knew she was gonna like her, I think.

[Erica]

Oh, yeah.

[Mila]

So wait.

[Erica]

What I also liked is she started as the bartender, and she was just so, like, oh, my God. She was bartending, and like. Like, she was just making my drink so thoughtfully.

[Mila]

Man, do it like this.

[Erica]

Let me say thank you. No, but she was just so, so nice.

[Mila]

Now, you mentioned earlier when Mandy and you. Before we got on camera, you were like, mandy told me her type. And I was like, I got it.

[Erica]

And she did. I ain't gonna hold you. As soon as I got in, I saw her making the drinks. I said, ooh. I said, bitch, you was right. And then that was the girl I ended up playing with the other girl, we just did impact play. But that was the girl that I. Yeah, I said.

[Shay Primus]

I told Mandy, you know, you might be. Cause she. I knew that girl only wanted girl play, too. She did.

[Erica]

And she literally said that she only wanted to deal with a girl.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah. Because sometimes masculine energy is a lot, and sometimes you just can't do it. You don't have the capacity for it, you know?

[Erica]

Yeah. And I will say, like, there was one moment there was this guy. He was, like, bigger than, like, what I was interested in. And I don't normally play with men, but I did. Like, he wanted to be smothered. And so I don't know if you saw.

[Shay Primus]

I wasn't. I wasn't.

[Erica]

I made him literally in the middle of the floor. I was just like, okay, fine.

[Shay Primus]

You sat on his face.

[Erica]

And I literally just, like, sat on it and then got up and was like, you can get up now. And I loved it.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

But that's what he wanted. Yeah. And I was just like, okay. And I literally, like, like, smothered him. I thought that was.

[Mila]

You know, I had this interaction a week ago with a woman that. So initially, we approached her as a couple, and I think I told my man to go get her. And she came over, saw me, and was like, oh. And looks at my boyfriend and goes, I'm actually a lesbian. And I'm like, why did you say yes to this? She was like, sometimes I just, like, the male energy, whatever. But, like, I didn't really think you were going to be my vibe and literally after that was like, yeah, we can go on a date, but not with him. And I was like, this is super interesting because I've had many scenarios myself where I was about to have a threesome, I was interested in a couple, and then I was just like, boop. Sometimes that feminine energy just starts to hit me. And even though he's not a thirsty nigga by any means, sometimes you almost associate men with like, oh, we want to do our own thing. Like, you kind of want him away. And I'd be feeling like, you're so lucky to be in the presence.

[Erica]

You know what I'm saying?

[Mila]

So I wanted to know, for you, for your male lovers that night, did you forewarn them? Were they like getting excited by seeing you? Like, did you let them know I'm not looking for dick tonight?

[Shay Primus]

Oh, so I should tell you, I'm not a relationship girly. I'm gimme the meat, fuck me and leave. That's my philosophy. So they already know if we, you know, it ain't no lovey dovey stuff. It's just ever. No.

[Erica]

What do you mean? How long has it been like that for you? Cause I know you also said this is your second whole phase.

[Shay Primus]

You said, well, since I started this whole phase after a breakup almost two years ago. I tell them my heart's not on the table, my purse is not on the table. Cause that's the other thing for me. When you pull up to my house, I drive a Porsche, so you're gonna. People are going to assume I'm a sugar mama and I'm not. So I let that be known. Don't ask me for shit.

[Erica]

And I didn't realize when she said that when we met. And then, bitch, I pulled up to her house and I said, oh, a n. Yes, they will think that I will see how it is. They will think that it is.

[Mila]

I would too.

[Shay Primus]

And I'm not.

[Mila]

Especially someone single and kinky. I'd be like, oh, you gonna pay for this now.

[Shay Primus]

Do you think that you have to pay for dick? I have dick.

[Erica]

Lying.

[Mila]

But where does the. Where does a non relationship like, okay, two years breakup. So you have been a relationship person for sure.

[Shay Primus]

My whole book is like navigating all my relationships. And then you see me go through this journey that I'm on now where I'm not in relationships and I'm just having sex for pleasure and I'm prioritizing myself.

[Mila]

So then what did he do to you?

[Erica]

To me?

[Mila]

Who hurt you for the.

[Shay Primus]

Well, it's not he, all of them. None of them. None of them.

[Erica]

All of them hurt you?

[Shay Primus]

Every single person I've ever been in a relationship with, none of them could meet me where I am. None of them had the capacity to hold me, meaning I'm too much for them. And I don't wanna. I don't wanna try it again to see, can you contain all that I am. I don't even wanna give you that opportunity. I can contain me.

[Erica]

It's sexually, it's professionally.

[Shay Primus]

On no level. You can't handle me on any level. All you can do is fuck me and leave. That's just how I feel.

[Mila]

Can I ask how old you are?

[Shay Primus]

I'm 40s.

[Erica]

Yeah.

[Mila]

So you had to have met someone in your life that you thought, this is it. We all have that one.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Mila]

When it comes to that moment where you're like, to me, there has to be some sort of major disappointment to not want even any type of relationship

[Erica]

or emotional connection or too much disappointment is what.

[Shay Primus]

And that's what I'm saying.

[Erica]

She's not saying at the end of

[Shay Primus]

that relationship that my last relationship, I, which is my book is called Touch. At the end of that relationship, I realized I had never been touched. I never am Being seen, being fully held, being. No one has ever. No one has ever from a spiritual, mental, physical, sexual, any capacity been able to hold all that I am. I have to shrink myself. In all of those relationships. Nobody could hold me.

[Mila]

But we also, like, don't meet. I have a friend that just got married at 41. So, like, I think. Do you think that there really is nobody?

[Shay Primus]

I'm okay. I'm not. This is not a boo hoo woe is me. I'm good.

[Erica]

Hello.

[Shay Primus]

Because one of the things I realized too is I upgrade every man that I'm with. And I decided I don't want to pour my energy into that. I don't want to upgrade you. I want to upgrade me. So I'm pouring into myself. And this period is very selfish. I'm elevating me, I'm expanding my business and all I want to do is have sex and enjoy it.

[Mila]

What happens if emotions happen? Do you blame yourself? Do you blame the situation?

[Shay Primus]

Like, I just don't let it get there. So I don't even have conversations with them. We don't talk on the phone. We don't hang out. Those are the boundaries I set up to keep it what it is.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

What's up y'?

[Commercial Announcer]

All?

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

It's Erica Mila from Good Moms. Bad Choices on the Black Effect in this mini episode, we're diving into the double standard around women and sexual partners. The shame and judgment tied to body count. We unpack where it comes from, who it serves, and why reclaiming your sexual history and knowing your HIV prevention options matters. Take a listen. And the crazy part is, is that body count shame actually discourages women and men from getting tested and talking openly about prevention.

[Shay Primus]

Honestly, Because.

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

Because HIV is still a real conversation and we need to be having it. And the crazy part is, is that body count shame actually discourages women from getting tested. And not just women, men too, and discourages them from talking openly about prevention because HIV is still a real conversation that we need to be having, and the stigma around how many is the same stigma that keeps people from getting the care and the prevention that they deserve. Knowing your status, knowing your options, that is what actually matters, right? You can listen to this special episode of Good Moms Bad choices on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Sponsored by Care for the Culture from Gilead Sciences.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Mila]

This is an interesting thing for a lot of people that want to learn how to have sex without emotions, attachments. Yeah.

[Erica]

Cause I told you I actually you liked being attached. Well in for the very first, I don't know, seven years of this pod casual sex was something that I enjoyed.

[Mila]

Mandy to said for a while she didn't need kissing before sex.

[Shay Primus]

Oh I like kissing.

[Erica]

I mean, well it's not that I didn't like it. I didn't need it. Yeah, I didn't need someone to cuddle with me or lay up with me. Like there was quite a bit of time where I was having sex and they would either leave right after or if I was at their house. I just want to be in my own bed. I didn't like being at other people's home for even that. Like just come to me and then good. I could kick you out when I don't want you in my space anymore. But since my first relationship, which now ever since then I feel like I'm a relationship girly, I need intimacy and I need intimacy in forms of things that Come outside of sex. Like. And Weezy's like, I'm sick of you saying this, bitch. Yes, it's the bare minimum, but take out my trash if you see it full. If something is broken in my house, like, I'm not gonna lie. Yomi, I loved. I don't have much company here in Atlanta. And her and her friend came over one day, and it's a girl, but she fixed my toilet. Yeah, like. And even that little fix. No, but you know how she.

[Mila]

Wait, the lesbian couple, you know, came and fixed her toilet?

[Erica]

Well, what. But it was just like, stuff like that.

[Shay Primus]

To me, I'm like, do that stuff.

[Erica]

Yeah. Or like, so to me, like, if a man is in my house, if something is down, I'm not gonna lie to you, if Yomi and her girlfriend

[Mila]

came over and fixed the toilet, I'd be like, I don't need a nigga anymore.

[Erica]

No, but that's what I'm saying.

[Mila]

Don't show me how good it could be on the side.

[Erica]

No. Like, she was like, oh, no. And it wasn't my toilet. It was my toilet paper holder. But it was, like, loose. And she was like, oh, do you have this? So to me, when a man enters my home, and either the next time they come, they're bringing something to make things easier, simpler. Like, I've had. You know, that's very thoughtful. I've had a partner. Like, you want. You want your curtains hung up like, you know, or like, again, the trash being taken out or doing the dishes, or when we wake up in the morning, I coming back to my room and my bed is made. Like, I just like. And I need that now.

[Shay Primus]

You can get that. And I think that works for you because you can get with you. I don't need that.

[Erica]

You don't need it. What does aftercare then look like for you?

[Shay Primus]

I don't need aftercare.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wow.

[Shay Primus]

I don't need.

[Erica]

After being pumped and dumped, you can

[Shay Primus]

pump and dump, and I'll say, lock the door on your way out, and

[Mila]

I'll roll over and go to the hospital. How do you then recover from those moments? Because you said sex is healing.

[Shay Primus]

So for me, I do a lot of spiritual things. So you have to understand, when I have sex, let's say I'm manifesting something. So I do sex magic. So let's say he.

[Mila]

Me too.

[Shay Primus]

So if he ejaculates in me, I can reach up there, grab that, wrap that around my candle, put my bay leaf on there, light it.

[Erica]

You wrap nut around a candle, his

[Shay Primus]

nut his semen is soldiers, girl.

[Erica]

What the fuck does that do?

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

Oh, no.

[Erica]

Y' all know I ain't into this

[Mila]

witchy shit, but this.

[Shay Primus]

Let me explain. Semen is soldiers. So the way semen go get a baby, they can go get anything.

[Mila]

She got a mansion. You don't say that.

[Erica]

First off, first off, first off, I have a manner, a banner.

[Mila]

Why don't you get some cum in a candle?

[Erica]

Oh, bitch, I got a banner. Hold on, hold on. Not too much. Yes, a mansion. But I got a manor, baby.

[Shay Primus]

That's cool.

[Erica]

I done with a spot. I got it.

[Shay Primus]

Everybody can get what they want.

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

Hello.

[Erica]

I got everything I want.

[Shay Primus]

That's good.

[Mila]

She said you pulled up to my.

[Erica]

I mean, to be fair.

[Mila]

How was that?

[Erica]

Uber. To be fair. To be fair, I did just get told that I'm not human. And I did just get told that. That. Because I get. You know, I have all the things. There's nothing like that. I don't want that. I. When I say I'm finna get something, like someone feels like they were summoned.

[Shay Primus]

Ooh, Ooh.

[Erica]

Yeah. And so that was interesting.

[Mila]

Dude.

[Shay Primus]

That does sound interesting to hear.

[Erica]

And you know what's crazy? I had to sit with it. Remember the nigga that I told you was on my wall as a child? I could think of all the. Baby. Hold on. Actually, no. Yomi knows. We talked about it more. The people that throughout, like, my entire life, whether I was a fan of them, whether I had a crush on them, you get them, it's like, almost like, really crazy.

[Shay Primus]

That's manifestation.

[Erica]

You don't want to believe in the

[Shay Primus]

wicked stuff, but you're doing the wicked stuff.

[Erica]

I'm manifesting dick. Wait, what? And I manifest dick, too. Yeah, but I like. Hold on.

[Mila]

Wait, wait, wait. Let's keep going.

[Erica]

Okay, wait, wait, hold on. Now tell me you wrap the semen around.

[Mila]

Yeah.

[Erica]

Start over, because we gonna clip this up.

[Mila]

Okay, you take the semen.

[Shay Primus]

Okay. Sex madam, for you. Now, listen, this. You don't do this with anybody. So let's say I'm sleeping with somebody. Who is that? He owns multiple businesses. Like, it's gotta be like, powerful semen. Yes, yes, yes.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay.

[Erica]

Powerful semen.

[Mila]

This is why niggas throw away the condoms.

[Shay Primus]

They be throwing. But I don't want your babies.

[Erica]

No, no, no, no.

[Shay Primus]

I'm not trying to get pregnant or anything like that.

[Erica]

She said she got an iud, but

[Shay Primus]

I have an iud. I need the semen. Because your semen is powerful. You don't even know that you Spill

[Erica]

it on the floor.

[Shay Primus]

You spill it in a towel. You don't even know. I know what I'm gonna use it for. So I will have an intention. I will reach up my juices. His juices combined. I will wrap it around a candle. I write on a bay leaf what I want.

[Erica]

Like, on a bay leaf. Like what you put in, like, cabbage.

[Shay Primus]

A bay leaf.

[Erica]

Cabbage, bay leaf.

[Mila]

Like seasoning.

[Shay Primus]

It's like a leaf.

[Mila]

It's dry.

[Erica]

Yeah, I know.

[Shay Primus]

You write on it what you want. You write your manifestation. You write it on there. Light the candle. Light the bay leaf.

[Erica]

Yes, I put that in a lot of. Like, you might like my oxtail.

[Shay Primus]

Like, you must just write on it and use it for magic. Absolutely.

[Erica]

And can he see this happen?

[Shay Primus]

Like, they see my altar is right beside my bed.

[Erica]

You fuck next to an altar?

[Shay Primus]

You didn't see my altar. You were getting dressed next to the altar.

[Erica]

Oh, shit. No, I didn't see that on the altar.

[Shay Primus]

If you can say things that I do, I'm witchy.

[Mila]

But, like, I don't know if maybe Mandy didn't notice it. Is it just like you're just seeing crystals and the candles? No, no.

[Erica]

Now that I think about it, bitch, it's an altar.

[Shay Primus]

It's a whole altar, bitch.

[Erica]

It was, but I didn't even realize that that was your. Yes. You fucked next to. So you're in, kids.

[Mila]

Such magic. Because my magic, I've done solo. And my man and I did it before we bought our house. Did I tell you about how we said we was gonna live in a house like that? Okay, this is crazy. This had no sex magic pocket.

[Erica]

It works.

[Shay Primus]

It absolutely works.

[Mila]

We went to a game night. I can't even say the location now, but it was in the hills. And during this game night, he kept saying, God, this is fire. I wanna live like this, like. But, you know, I don't fuck with la. Ha, ha, ha. That night we're fucking, I remember it was a full moon and my period was on. And so he always says, oh, you know, you in alignment.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Mila]

So we start fucking. And right when I hear your sex. Oh, bitch.

[Erica]

That's the strong one.

[Shay Primus]

It is strong people don't know that's the one.

[Erica]

I know it's strong. Little penis smell,

[Shay Primus]

Penny smell.

[Mila]

So while I'm about to orgasm, he's having me hold it. Because, you know, the veil is very thin when you come.

[Shay Primus]

It is.

[Mila]

So he get it?

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Mila]

He's like, think about that house. Yes, think about the house. And he's like, what are we going to do in the house? And now he's making sure my eyes are open. He's like, look at me. And we're talking about the house. And he fucking. It's amazing.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Mila]

Did not even hit me. Boom. We end up buying a house in la. It's in the hills. It's beautiful. I, in my phone, type in my zip code after we bought the house so I could pull up a picture. The only photos that came up were my house and the pictures from that game night. It's the same.

[Shay Primus]

Shut up, zz.

[Mila]

And when I tell you it freaked

[Erica]

me the fuck out.

[Mila]

While we were fucking, we just started talking about that house, right? And I'm like, oh, my God.

[Erica]

Oh, no. Let's be very clear. Not that our book isn't great, but knowing that we both kind of manifest shit. We only wanted to be New York Times bestsellers. Nobody believed that we would be able to do it. We didn't get traditional media. Our own publisher was like, we don't know how to sell this or push it or market it. No, there's, like, a gossip blog that

[Mila]

doesn't really cover, like, women pods or anything, but they, like, are obsessed about talking shit about Mandy because she would.

[Erica]

Everyone talks.

[Mila]

She had a. She had an alignment to the Joe Biden podcast at some point. And there was a guy, and it really hurt my feelings. It's a show called do not say his name.

[Erica]

Nope, we don't. We nope. Bleep it up. Minute mark.

[Mila]

Well, whatever that nigga said. Oh, New York Times bestseller. Charlemagne must have bought that for them. And I was like, you know who it is.

[Erica]

Wow.

[Mila]

Like, mind you, because it was sent to me. And I was like, fuck. Why would you think that Low of us? Fuck it. Albeit we're whores and we're this. And you don't think we have enough views. Do you really think for a moment

[Erica]

you can't even buy.

[Shay Primus]

You can't buy your way in.

[Erica]

Have you seen them? How are you in to a sex club? You can buy your way to love. Have you been to a horrible messages show you can't buy yourself?

[Mila]

We've been around 10 years and you think we couldn't have thousands of people purchase a book when we do have

[Shay Primus]

thousands of people that will purchase your book.

[Erica]

But, yeah, it was. Yeah, but I know the power isn't manifesting now.

[Shay Primus]

And orgasmic manifestation, which is what you described. What is it you did? Orgasmic manifestation. So that is a form of sex magic. It is what I talk about that Is a form of sex magic. What I talked. What I just described is a diff. It's all sex magic. But I do use cpu.

[Erica]

I ain't gonna hold you. If I'm fucking on a nigga and he make me come, and that nigga start to wrap his wet fingers around a candle. I'm calling the cops, bitch.

[Mila]

No, you're not. I'm calling. Cause what they gonna do?

[Erica]

I think he gonna be so strong.

[Shay Primus]

She gonna be like, oh, my baby's so spiritual.

[Erica]

No, I'm sitting here.

[Shay Primus]

No.

[Erica]

Now, before we get out of here, I do wanna get y'.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

All.

[Mila]

Fuck that bitch. Keep on it.

[Erica]

Oh, I wanna. No, no, no. This is. This is tea. This is tea.

[Mila]

Oh, the table.

[Erica]

The table. So, bitch. So me and Ishay go out to dinner, and a mutual friend comes. Y', all. This is the part that is goot. And I can't wait to listen.

[Mila]

And we judge.

[Erica]

We listen. And. Babe, did we not judge?

[Shay Primus]

We had to judge.

[Erica]

Oh, we judged. Kind of.

[Shay Primus]

We had to judge.

[Erica]

It was kind of hard, but not.

[Shay Primus]

It was with me. As a sisterhood. As a sisterhood, you have to judge. You gotta set people straight. You can't leave them.

[Erica]

You gotta judge the game. Mind you, on the gang, Shay the same way she came late to this pod was a little late to dinner. Don't do me, baby. We was eating when your ass walked in.

[Shay Primus]

But I ate two.

[Erica]

You did eat two. And her food came right out. So she got to enjoy the meal while we helped our sister.

[Shay Primus]

Because I just had the meat. See?

[Erica]

You did. Just had the meat. This bitch was like two hearts of wings, bitch, not a side. Just give me the meat. Just give me the meat. So she comes in, but literally in the middle of our friend sharing her dilemma. So backstory, Weezy. Can't wait for you to hear this shit. Also a way to help y' all sisters out there.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

So she's like, this is a table of sisterhood. I trust you ladies. And, you know, we're all talking about just where we're at in love. Other people are at the table. Married. Me and her are the representatives of poly and lifestyle.

[Shay Primus]

So she just felt like we the only selective sluts.

[Erica]

Yeah. So she felt like she was at a table full of people that, you know, could kind of help her out. So she has been with her partner for 10 years, married for five. Okay, okay. They have a toddler. I'll say. A child under five. And so the dilemma that she brought to the table was, I found out my man Was cheating two months ago.

[Mila]

Okay.

[Erica]

So I'm like, okay. So she goes into what happened. So she's like, yeah. So my man's phone wasn't turning on, and I told him I could take it to the store, get it fixed, and bring it back. And she was like, thought nothing of it. Like, okay.

[Shay Primus]

And he's a trucker, so he was overnight.

[Erica]

He's a truck driver, so he was overnight. By the way, ladies, if you were dating a truck driver, more power to you.

[Shay Primus]

Red flag.

[Erica]

Red flag immediately.

[Mila]

Oh, my God. You know, my boyfriend was a truck driver when he was young and a hoe. I called you.

[Erica]

You know what he talked about?

[Mila]

I was like, so did you have a bitch in different cities?

[Erica]

He was like, bro, you wouldn't have been.

[Mila]

Not exactly a truck driver.

[Erica]

Truck driver. A ho.

[Mila]

I know he was ho.

[Erica]

A ho. Anyways, so she's like, so I took my man's phone to the Apple Store.

[Mila]

Okay.

[Erica]

And they turned it on immediately. She just goes to think, okay, let me go through his messages. Now, she said she spent a long time in the messages between him and his baby mama and saw a lot of inappropriate conversations, but even more so, so, so inappropriate that the baby mama is like, can't wait till you get a divorce, because I think we can try again. And she also found out that they exchanged Valentine's Day faces.

[Shay Primus]

Yes. Which is a red flag. You already know what that means, bitch.

[Erica]

So she sees this. She's hurt by this.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

What was?

[Mila]

Everybody's face. But they hold it.

[Shay Primus]

We're not even done.

[Erica]

Oh, no, we're not even done. That's not even the tv.

[Shay Primus]

That's not.

[Erica]

So we're like, oh, bitch, they fucking. And da, da, da. So she goes deeper, and it's like something in my spirit told me to keep going through her phone. She goes through her phone and immediately goes through his phone and sees a text message between him and a man named Vontae.

[Mila]

Mm.

[Erica]

Now, him and Vontae are not only texting each other, but exchanging photos. And it's boot ahole and dick pics.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

And so this leads her to see this exchange. He's asking this man if he got good bussy, what position he is. And so she's turned off because she's like, not your first time. He knows the lingo.

[Shay Primus]

But wait, but he in. He in the lifestyle.

[Erica]

Ssy.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah. He in the lifestyle.

[Erica]

And so I'm just like, wait.

[Mila]

Which I was doing.

[Shay Primus]

No, no, hold on.

[Erica]

So wait, she goes further. She's like, something.

[Shay Primus]

This is not it.

[Erica]

No, this is not it, bitch. So she goes further, and she's like, okay, he's exchanging these messages with his baby mama, and he is sending his dick to this man. I don't know what convinced her. She said something in my spirit, told me to just go through his apps. He had six gay dating apps on his phone. Grindr, Grindr, Swift, Swifties, Everything but six gay apps. And she did, mind you, she found this two months ago. She did something that I don't think any woman would have thought, but, baby, she did with her research and asked. She went to his app store and decided to look up the purchase and download history of these apps.

[Mila]

Bitch.

[Erica]

He had them downloaded since 2021.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

So he had been on these apps for the last five years.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

One year after they got married.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

They got married in 2020. He's had these apps downloaded since 2021.

[Shay Primus]

Right.

[Erica]

Hear me out. Wait, you ready?

[Mila]

He's alive.

[Erica]

You ready? You ready? It gets worse.

[Shay Primus]

It gets worse.

[Erica]

She's the breadwinner. He hasn't.

[Shay Primus]

He don't even pay the mortgage, bro.

[Erica]

He don't pay the mortgage, and I

[Mila]

hate n so much.

[Erica]

And even worse, he moved his mama in.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

She would roll her out. And I want y' all to know, by the way, both of these people are black.

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

And so as we were sitting here talking to her, I asked the question, which, you know, was, are you more upset that he lied and betrayed you or that it was men and to be. It was interesting. It was more that he lied because she felt as though she did create a safe space for him. She said that she brought it to him, and all he did was sit down and admit to it.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah.

[Erica]

He claimed that while he did not mess with any men, which we all told him, that's a lie.

[Shay Primus]

Also, she pegs him.

[Erica]

She does peg him.

[Shay Primus]

She pegs him, and I think that's a good piece.

[Erica]

And he admitted to being trans attracted.

[Shay Primus]

Yes. He likes the dick.

[Erica]

He likes the dick. So all of these things. And stop letting. So this is what she's doing, bro. While this woman is like, wait, you was lit.

[Mila]

No,

[Erica]

bro. Because he was like that. Taking it in the house. She's taking it, too. No, wait, who said.

[Mila]

Is the pussy good?

[Erica]

No, he asked the other woman. The other man, he just ate my.

[Mila]

Does he want to switch?

[Erica]

Okay, so we were trying to sit

[Shay Primus]

here and figure out.

[Erica]

That's the question. Nigga, I will say a. I mean, clearly, you asked if he was alive, so I know what you would do. But it was really disheartening. I will say.

[Mila]

You know what really would have killed me, though?

[Erica]

What?

[Mila]

Actually, the baby mama shit would have fucked up.

[Erica]

No, bitch, that's what I'm saying. I said, bitch, you pay the mortgage and all the bills. Cause this nigga ain't got money, but he got enough money to buy his baby mama Valentine on Valentine's Day gift.

[Shay Primus]

I said, what, are you seeing him? She said, he's really sweet and he's a good dad, girl. He could be a good dad outside.

[Erica]

Hold on.

[Mila]

This is why I almost had a baby with Vinny, who's my gay best friend. Who gives a.

[Erica]

That's all you have, girl. That's it. To the point where she was like, well, you know what? I'm not wearing my ring anymore. However, maybe I can let him stay in the basement for a year to get his money together before I know, no, no, no. Stay with them niggas. You don't understand. We were just like, no, ma', am. What is happening here?

[Shay Primus]

She didn't know what she was gonna do. I really. You know, I just have a little kid. I don't wanna be a single parent. Like, it was just sick.

[Erica]

Cause I know we talked about this with your friend. To me, it's like, ladies, I need you to get under the shackles of staying with a man that is not. And I want to say, too, this was really interesting. And it hit me. Y' all know, in a recent episode, I talked about not really having. This was Patreon not having empathy for Khloe Kardashian because she married a man who she didn't know. It was really interesting to know she's been with this man for 10 years, married for six. He's been cheating on her for the last five. And literally, what we were saying was, damn, you're with a man that you don't know. You still don't know him, and you still don't know him. Because I know that there's elements of a lie there. It's also so disheartening how much a black woman shows up to just nurture and help you through trauma.

[Mila]

She literally, can I oppose something?

[Erica]

Yes.

[Mila]

Not shitting on her.

[Erica]

Oh, no, girl. Did you see how she just left?

[Mila]

I don't believe someone can change your life for five years. And you saw no sign. Don't believe it.

[Erica]

Well, to me, though.

[Mila]

Don't believe it.

[Erica]

To me, though, signs of cheating. Maybe not, but maybe she did feel like she knew her man because she was pegging him I think that that's why that's important. So in terms of kink and exploration and things that he enjoyed, she was like, bro, I'm pegging you. She said she had no, like, inclination that he was doing this. And mind you, hold on. I had to tell her. I said. I said.

[Mila]

I just. No, we actually have to pause.

[Erica]

What?

[Mila]

This. That is actually unbelievable that she didn't.

[Erica]

To be with someone. He's gone overnight. To me, that's why, like, certain jobs and stuff. When I say, like, you should expect a man to cheat, like, yes, I say athletes and rappers, but, like, in terms of regular spaces, like, regular jobs. Like, y' all know nurses, too, then. I mean, when you have an overnight, or, like, firefighters, oh, my God, they stay at the firehouse for 24 to 48 hours. They work two days straight, and then they're done. So, like, bro, I found cops. They're literally. Bro. They could go get their dick sucked in the car or be in the

[Shay Primus]

middle of the shift, bro.

[Erica]

In the middle of the shift. Like, I had an ex friend that was dating a police officer who would come and drop dick off. Bro, he's engaged right now.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

Yeah.

[Shay Primus]

So, like, a lot of them cheat. Let's just say that they do.

[Erica]

So to me, it was like, I do find that when some people. When you're not a woman who looks because you want to believe that you and your partner on the same page. And if you've been with someone for five, 10 years and you're able to explore kinks, you're able to feel like you could trust him. Y' all just created a baby together, planned. You held him down, got his mama moving in. You got his mama moving in. There's an element of where I can see how even certain signs, you just kind of. You don't see them.

[Mila]

Okay.

[Erica]

And she. Okay, look, there's the baby. She's always gonna raise your hands.

[Mila]

He has another child.

[Erica]

You're not going from before the marriage.

[Mila]

I understand. You're not going to tell me that a man you've been with who, if you're a good. If you're a good partner, if he's a good dad like you say, means he's spending a lot of time with that other kid. I just don't believe. I think there has always been some tension with baby. I think there's always been something there. It's just very difficult. For example, ooh, I wonder if he'll let me keep this in. We went to a traditional family party, and my man introduced a Woman and said, this is one of my aunties. Afterward, I'm like, is she really one of your aunties? Because why does she act like she wants to fuck you? So he starts smiling and laughing. He's like, no. I say auntie out of respect. She do be acting like that, don't she? I'm like, yo, since the day we knew each other, I've always saw this woman and known there was an attraction there. Right. Based on the way she speaks to me, looks at him, touches him. Sometimes how she may get irritated if we dance. I don't think there's been a sign you didn't see it, that you didn't see. You chose to ignore it. But here's the other layer. On top of this, you sat up with women that you feel were trustworthy enough to share this with, and you don't realize how much you're disrespecting yourself in the process.

[Shay Primus]

And somebody. One of the therapists asked for that.

[Erica]

No, no, no. She literally looked to her face and was like, at what point in your life did you know you had the capacity for so much bullshit?

[Shay Primus]

Yes.

[Erica]

And literally, literally looked at her like, there's trauma here as to why you're staying with this man. And in, like, the most vulnerable way. She was the eldest sister, and she was like my sisters. And like, there was family trauma that made her realize her capacity for bullshit.

[Mila]

Wait, there. Here's the other layer. This is how bad we act like being single is, bro.

[Shay Primus]

And that's not what you just said to me.

[Erica]

Who hurt me?

[Shay Primus]

Who hurt you and why? I can't. Why I don't want to.

[Mila]

Not single. I'm talking about emotional connection. Why you can't enjoy it or why

[Erica]

you need that single. But if you think about it, too, the fear and the way the society. No, but they're being a single person. And literally, like, even the response be, well, who hurt you? Oh, bitch, no one's ever.

[Commercial Announcer]

Okay, wait, wait, wait.

[Erica]

Hold on.

[Mila]

Wait, wait, wait. Cut. Stop. I am not shaming anyone for being single. I am questioning the capacity for emotional. Emotional investment while being single.

[Erica]

You're not. But we're saying something.

[Mila]

We're not talking about me. Let me continue speaking. There are many people that aren't able to do this. So to me, being that we even teach aftercare, it is very interesting that you should be like that. You desire someone to do this and leave is where I'm like, okay. If emotional connection can breed safety, even in casual relationships, I cannot know a nigga name. He could hold me after we fucking leave.

[Shay Primus]

He could.

[Mila]

Why is that not happening? That, to me, is not shaming.

[Shay Primus]

Just because I didn't want to.

[Mila]

Right there's my question. I, like, I really want to reiterate that, like, I'm going to end up being married with kids and I'll always ask questions about single shit. And I've been single and been a ho, so I don't ever want to perpetuate the idea that it's a shame.

[Shay Primus]

No, no, no, no. I don't feel any shame.

[Erica]

We say that people shame women. So they do. So that's why a woman who just found out her broke ass husband is buying Valentine's Day. Which is worse. Hold on.

[Shay Primus]

It is worse.

[Erica]

Hold on. Is trans attracted. Has cheated on you for the last five years. This is single. Not that bad, bro. Hold on. Is sending his dick to men. Is getting ass pictures. Has literally betrayed your trust. It's why, though, a woman would choose to stay with a man instead of being single. But wait, Mandy, that is a single woman society.

[Mila]

Shame can't be a real reality that we're in.

[Erica]

No, but it is. Like, look at, look at society can't

[Mila]

make me feel worse than my own.

[Erica]

But they do. And unfortunately, the patriarchy does uphold.

[Shay Primus]

The patriarchy will uphold her for staying with her man versus me, saying, I don't want to do this.

[Erica]

Yes, they will uphold her for holding her husband down.

[Shay Primus]

They would.

[Erica]

And I say that all the time. I say that all the time.

[Mila]

What would Dr. Sarah say?

[Erica]

No, but I mean, but that's the thing, too.

[Mila]

She said she never leaving her nigga.

[Erica]

No, that's what I'm saying. So unfortunately, we have conversations. We just sat up literally on stage with another woman.

[Shay Primus]

Yep.

[Erica]

Literally going through a divorce. And she's upset that she stayed so long because she's like, wait or wait, no, she left. And people were trying to convince her, give it two more years. Give it five more years. People push you to stay in these unhealthy relationships. I will say this because of marriage.

[Mila]

I actually can understand. And I talk about this with one of my homegirls often when we joke about forgiving. To cheat. I mean, whatever. This morning, to cheat. No, no, no, no. We'll talk about how, like, hey, what would the level be? And I'd be like, all right, if him and the bitch started texting, I love you. Oh, I'm out for six months, bitch. I'm out. Like, I'm out the house. You gotta be scared I might divorce your ass. But, like, Ah, da da, Right. The thing that becomes more interesting as we talk about deception is how deep the deception goes. Now we're talking about, you've taken advantage of me monetarily. You've now put me in a place of vulnerability because I know she loves and cares about his mother. That's 10 years. Oh, no, no, no, no. She kicked her, so now she don't. Good for her.

[Erica]

Yeah, she kicked her.

[Shay Primus]

Yeah. But what we told her she needs to at least get on prep. And I said, listen, you know, he messing with dudes. Let's just cut to the chain, because that's the.

[Erica]

They're still together.

[Shay Primus]

She ain't put him out.

[Erica]

She has not put him out. Hold on, I want to call my Uber.

[Mila]

I want to leave before she.

[Erica]

Before she. Before she confronted him. She did go to get tested and at least didn't have anything. Yeah, but girl, he's still in the house and she trying to decide if they gonna stay together or not. Because also, I'm like, bitch, you're the breadwinner. That nigga gonna get alimony from you. You gonna have to pay this cheat habit. Is she ugly or something? No, she's not ugly, mind you. No prenup. So. Bitch. And she's like, I don't think he would do that. Bitch, look what he already did to you.

[Shay Primus]

He gonna put your money. It's been six years of him sneaking around like, bitch, wake up.

[Erica]

Yes. No, it's. Listen, anyways, before we get out of

[Mila]

here, I wish you didn't tell me that.

[Erica]

Oh, no, it's crazy. Your book can be pre ordered now. Yes, Let them know. Can you take your book and hit that bitch over the head with it? Listen.

[Commercial Announcer]

Ooh.

[Shay Primus]

So I'm giving y' all a taste.

[Erica]

Oh, talking to the mic, baby.

[Shay Primus]

I'm giving you a taste of touch. And it comes with a little cookie. The taste of Touch is just four chapters of touch.

[Mila]

Oh, this is fabulous.

[Shay Primus]

So that you can have an idea.

[Erica]

I wish we did this.

[Mila]

Me too.

[Erica]

This would've been cute.

[Mila]

Oh, do you know what? I just opened too. He sat up, his mouth pounding my nipples, sucking slowly before just biting enough to make me gasp.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yes.

[Mila]

I rode him harder. My thigh's burning his cock.

[Erica]

Oh, you're a cock, girl.

[Shay Primus]

I love cock.

[Mila]

You see, real hoes hate CoC.

[Erica]

I love CoC. Hate that.

[Shay Primus]

I love cock.

[Erica]

Have you fuck white guys.

[Shay Primus]

I love white guys.

[Erica]

Oh, see, that's why, babe.

[Mila]

I love white guys, too.

[Erica]

I've never been with a pink dick, so I'm not saying cock pink dick.

[Mila]

Ooh, what is the white guy thing?

[Shay Primus]

I do have a white guy in my book. Not in that taste, but I do have a couple in my book.

[Mila]

One of my stories is about a

[Erica]

white guy giving like chocolate by Zayn. Like, is it a whole bunch of my stories?

[Shay Primus]

There are sex stories, but they're mine. They're not made up. They're not fictional. These are my stories.

[Erica]

Ours weren't either. Babe, she said no.

[Mila]

You said, you said Zayn, bitch.

[Shay Primus]

I'm saying, like, it's not a fictional character. It's me on every page.

[Mila]

Uh huh.

[Erica]

So we gonna make.

[Mila]

Oh, so all the experience is me. Ooh, I love this one. I just like am jumping into something. To moan to move to masturbate to manifest.

[Erica]

About to read that statement Magic manifest to your witch. To moan to move to masturbate to manifest.

[Shay Primus]

Oh, we just talked about that.

[Erica]

Okay, and so where can our listeners get a taste of touch?

[Shay Primus]

You can go to shayprimus.com and get a touch. You can get touch. My book, Stories of Pleasure, Power and Awakening. This is just a gift I'm giving to people who pre order, but you can go to Amazon.

[Mila]

We all know how important pre ordering

[Shay Primus]

is, by the way. Pre orders is huge.

[Erica]

Yes.

[Shay Primus]

My book doesn't come out till October, so I'm doing a whole march.

[Erica]

Do all the pre orders. Babe. We was promoting months before March too.

[Shay Primus]

Did you like that?

[Mila]

I really think people should be giving out tangible things for pre orders more.

[Erica]

I do like this.

[Shay Primus]

Thank you.

[Erica]

I do like this because it's gonna very smart. Mind you, the I don't need the cookie, but to even see. This is an example of Chapter 1, 11, 22 and 28. So there's a lot more than just,

[Mila]

oh, there's panties on the cookie.

[Shay Primus]

Yes, it's my panties.

[Erica]

I love it.

[Shay Primus]

One of my lovers. One of my lovers shot my book cover too. He came over to my house and shot it. So it's.

[Erica]

Come on. One of my.

[Mila]

She said, I don't need you to, but I need you to take some pictures.

[Erica]

Shay. They do that so you can get the book touch shayprimus.com where can they follow you?

[Shay Primus]

They can follow me at Shea Primus Matchmaker on Instagram if you're interested in my services. That's upper echelon matchmaking.com girl.

[Erica]

And clearly men and women, you could slide in the DMs if you know,

[Shay Primus]

slide in the DMs.

[Erica]

I'm about to look.

[Mila]

I'm about to see which one which love? I need the tea, bitch. You need to show me the wife and the husband now.

[Shay Primus]

Oh, yeah.

[Erica]

Oh, yeah. No. You okay? Yeah.

[Mila]

Oh, yeah. Wrap this up. Let me see it.

[Erica]

And if you guys can. As you know, our paperback version of no Holds Barred is now available for purchase. It'll come straight to you wherever you get your book, so make sure you get no Holes Barred. A dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power.

[Mila]

And remember, single is always better than lying, cheating, DL nasty, limp dick, lying.

[Erica]

Thank you guys so much for tuning in to another episode of Decision Decisions. By.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Erica]

Hey, you planning a little adventure tonight? Knowing your status is part of staying protected against HIV keeps it hot, keeps it sexy. So stay naughty and stay informed because keeping it real about HIV prevention is part of the vibe.

[Shay Primus]

When you date, stay up to date

[Mila]

on your HIV prevention and sexual health. To learn more, talk to your healthcare

[Good Moms Bad Choices Host]

provider and visit carefortheculture.com

[Commercial Announcer]

Back to School is here. And Target has everything families need to help head into the school year feeling confident and ready to do their thing. From school supplies and stylish apparel to accessories kids actually want, Target makes it easy to check every box on your list at a great value. We're talking backpack starting. Just $5 and up to 60% off school supplies. Plus, kids can express their style with brands and collabs they love, like Love Shack, fancy cat and Jack Overtime. And customizable owalla bottles with stickers, charms and much more. The prices parents want and the brand's kids love, all in one place at Target.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

Before we go, I gotta leave y' all with a question. What's a hip hop lyric that changed the way you saw music? Because that's really what the Sprite living track list is about.

[Erica]

Out.

[Hip Hop Enthusiast]

It's not about crowning winners. It started conversations. 50 tracks, generations of artists, endless debates. And Sprite didn't just put lyrics on cans. Nah, they went deeper. Bringing together hip hop experts and tastemakers to help unpack the stories and impact behind every track. Check out the full Sprite Living Track List and break down the stories behind your favorite bars at Living Tracklist genius. Com. This is the Sprite Living Track List. Obey your thirst.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.