← Detox Nation with Sinclair Kennally
Detox Nation with Sinclair Kennally
"Drain Before Detox" - Fascia And Lymph Mistakes Blocking Detox | Dr. Stephanie Canestraro
00:48:02
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- [00:00]
A
When you're sick with Lyme or you have mold toxicity, that's what you're draining. Our body's always trying to do what it has to to protect us, but sometimes it needs a little help. I had a much larger left breast than my right breast, and I had, like, severe lymphatic stagnation. It's driving me crazy when I hear people say, you just have to regulate your nervous system. Your nervous system is hijacked. You're not clearing something.
- [00:22]
B
So you and I have a lot of synergy. We've shared, you know, clients in the past. You've been out to the Sala center to train for people. I think our synergy started because of both of our health histories. So I wanna make sure we cover, like, what you personally learned through your Lyme journey. We have a lot of similarities, but you also, like, arrived at really interesting conclusions. I've heard you speak really eloquently, privately with me about what you see is missing in the landscape right now in functional medicine, longevity medicine, performance medicine, about our fascia and our deep lymphatics or our lymphatic system. What are we still getting wrong? Even in this era of, like, really studying and wanting to honor how fascia works, how the lymphatics work, what are we still missing in the functional medicine conversation?
- [01:10]
A
I think, like, a big thing missing is we talk a lot about lymphatics, and when we talk about lymphatics, we're, first of all, not talking about the fascia along with it most of the time. Right. And even when you see the way people are addressing what they think is lymphatics, it's like this gentle pumping motion, which drives me absolutely crazy, because when you're sick with Lyme, like we had, or you have mold toxicity, it's not just your skin that needs drained, which that's what you're draining when you do that very small pumping. And, you know, even the whole messaging, which is that our lymphatics don't have muscular. Muscular walls. They don't have valves. That's only true for the very superficial layer, the very top layer in our skin. So we're talking about our skin fascia. Maybe, you know, vanity is very big right now. People don't want to be puffy, all of that. That's great. But when you're sick and you're in pain and you have organ issues and, you know, you talk a lot about the liver, your organs need to drain. When your organs do need to drain, and they're the Deeper things that's under the layers of deep fascia. So our fascia separates every organ. It's, it's. People use the analogy of an orange peel because it's the easiest thing to like, envision, right? So if you picture peeling back an orange and the first layer is your skin and that white thick layer underneath is the fascia. So you have that superficial thick layer, but then you peel apart each orange and you. Those are all intertwined in their own little fascial layer, right? So if you think about that and you just pumped an orange gently, like, and you're thinking of the interconnection of all the other ones that are supposed to be sliding, like, can you picture that? That maybe wouldn't really affect it that much, right? So now we know that in each layer of our fascia, there's under our superficial layer of fascia, there's our more superficial drainage. So the first, there's our skin lymphatic drainage. Then underneath the first layer of fascia is still called our superficial lymph, but that lymph is, still has a muscular wall and a valve. And then under the deeper fascia is our deep lymphatics that are draining even deeper our organs and all of the tissue that needs drained in our whole entire body. So when you're in pain because your organs are draining, you need to be affecting even the deep fascia, which that's why we teach a lot of teasing techniques where you're teasing the fascia because that's the only way that you're going to manually affect the deeper lymphatic tissue, right? And there has to be a little bit more pressure, like, yes, you might compress for a few seconds. The more superficial lymph and even the lymph nodes are okay to compress temporarily, right? Obviously you don't want to push on them so hard that you compress them and damage them. But again, we're trying to teach people self care because when I was really sick and I'm in pain and I'm suffering and I'm hurting, if I could release my left side where most of my lymphatic drains, right? So we all know 75% of our body drains into our lymphatic duct on the left hand side. If you just knew that and worked deep on that fascia in the chest and created space there. Because again, another misconception is that lymph doesn't know where to flow. We gotta push it to the right direction. Direction, right. Like, I mean, come on, just silly to think our bodies that it needs
- [04:24]
B
to be like, never sounded real to me.
- [04:27]
A
Yeah, when you create more space, it almost creates, like, a vacuum and stuff. And then your. Your lymph can clear better. So I think what I found, and even bigger, was, like, your abdominal. Like, no one touches people's bellies. That's where all your organs are. So we got really into working on the fascia in the belly. Like the deeper layers of fascia. Those are like these money spots. If you release that, like, the stomach starts gurgling, people feel, like, this release of pressure. And then, like, you know, think about all of the upper gi. Stuff you're seeing right now where people are getting, like, their hiatal hernias or their valves not working. And if you think of just behind those structures is one of the biggest structures that clears your whole body, which is the cisterna. Kylie. Right. So that's this big, huge lymph node that has to clear your whole body. Well, imagine that stuck and congested, and it pushes forward. There can be a structural issue that's creating that.
- [05:23]
B
Right.
- [05:23]
A
And even when we try to detox, we start moving more lymph or we have lots of infections and we create more lymph. So there's too much pressure and there's not enough clearance and there's not enough space. And then you're not actually able to get better, because no matter if you push something and you take a lymph drainer that helps it move, you know, you're not. You don't have any space. So we're creating space with teasing, and then we're using topicals like, you love topicals that help the. The smooth muscle move or to help things open up or, you know, just like, help the immune system. Even that is intertwined with our fascia.
- [05:58]
B
People with frustrating chronic symptoms, how should they be thinking about taking care of their own lymphatics and their fascia? And where do they start? At home? I want to talk about the practitioner point of view of, like, evalu and supporting the fascia and limb from your perspective, using your technique. I also want to make sure that we squeeze in a little bit of time for those performance injuries and your thought process on those, too. But you just said a mouthful about how we're ignoring the abdomen. And I agree with you. Look, we. We see everybody who comes to us as this paradoxical breathing, really shallow breathing. So they're not using their diaphragm because they've been through prolonged periods of stress or shocks or traumas. So that Their, their diaphragm is no longer stretching and using its full range of motion the way that it needs to in order to massage the internal organs and keep things moving. So right away we know we've got some serious stagnation to deal with and retrain out of the body. And I've heard you say that everything starts with the breath and you really teach people how to breathe. So I want to talk about that today and then I want to go to the, the abdominal piece.
- [07:04]
A
So again, when I was talking about fascia, there's so many different levels, but your diaphragms, this, it's a muscle, but there' like such a thick layer of fascia that connects to it and connects the whole organ system, the mesentery and the omentum. These are different fascial structural structures in our abdomen. But one of the biggest points where you can access is releasing the actual diaphragm. So we teach people how to hook under their diaphragm, hold and release until you feel like a gurgle or some sort of release. But even just the manual release part, then people start to breathe better. Right. So sometimes it's like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Did you stop breathing? Well, because there wasn't enough space also.
- [07:46]
B
Right.
- [07:46]
A
Like, you have all these infections your term that I say all the time is the solution to pollution is dilution. And so now you have all that pressure. So first of all you can do some things to release it and then things start to gurgle and move and then you'll feel like your breath opens. And breathing is obviously one of the ways that we pump our lymph. It is for sure. I'm just doing a deep breath now into my belly because it's another reason why all of the organs are shifting upwards.
- [08:14]
B
Right.
- [08:15]
A
So that was part of. I personally had a hiatal hernia, again, just like you. A lot of our personal story drives us into finding solutions and then sharing that with other people in order to empower them. One of them was like pushing out my belly while doing a diaphragm breath. And I, I have a sliding hiatal hernia and I could feel. Feel it go downwards. And we use breath a lot too, when we're treating people in the abdomen. Breathing into our hands to help us release different areas that we can't reach without them breathing out to get deeper. So we use breath in that way. But just obviously breathing through your diaphragm and not having just those shallow breaths is going to help open up your Entire system. Your neck is going to move better, your posture is going to be better, you're going to get better blood flow everywhere. Your organs are going to be in the right place. Your lymph can flow, your liver can get the nice pumping it needs so it doesn't get stagnant as well, like all of that. So breath is huge. Working on your actual diaphragm is part of what we teach because of how powerful that area is and how thick that fascial layer is. So that's a very important piece as well.
- [09:25]
B
From your perspective, somebody at home, what is the first step they should do if they're struggling with chronic symptoms? You know, fatigue, edema, you know, sensitivity to their environment, sensitivity to food, that's not headed in the right direction. They may not be dealing with a diagnosis yet, but this is not ending well for them. Where should they start to support their fascia and their lymph?
- [09:49]
A
I want people to work on their lymph and their fascia. But I'm a big proponent of binders as well, because even when we loosen a lot of your fascia, you release a lot of toxins because your body is smart. It doesn't keep these bugs, like, it tries to kick them out of your bloodstream. That's why a lot of people with chronic illness and they're doing blood tests and it's like, oh, but it's not like, I don't have an infection. You know, our body kicks them out into the interstitial space, into the fascia, and that's where we kind of get these. You know, your terrain starts being, I don't want to say dirty, but, you know, giving off a frequency of help. Clear me out. Like some systemic kind of inflammation. We have now, this dirty fascia, and then now we're going to tease it, right? So we're going to release some toxins. We even see it in people's live blood cells. Like, if they get fascial work or, you know, if you get fascial work or go in a sauna, anything that moves stuff around, things are dumped back into circulation. Finding a binder, even if it's a stronger, like, plant antioxidant binder, like, it doesn't matter. I just need people to know that they can handle something that helps them. If something flares them or makes them hurcs, if they know that term, which I'm sure they do, if they're listening to this and have been through their own issues. But the place to start, like I said, is already always around the left collarbone, the left trap area, neck clearing, you want to clear that area first because that's where it has to dump back into circulation. Then it's cleared out either through our intestines or through our kidneys because our lymph has to recirculate through our heart, which kind of is like, you know, and I have a good example of that too, which I want to share because it kind of gives. It gave me an aha moment. And it's when I had like severe lymphatic stagnation. So much so that I had a much larger left breast than my right breast. Like I'm talking like a double D on one side and like a regular size on the right. I was doing some work on my chest and I also got some neural therapy, which is when one of the things that can help lymph move, which is an injection. Once that started moving, I started getting multiple heart palps, one after the other after the other as the toxins like kind of recirculated through followed by a deflated left breast and a feeling of calm, you know, so that congestion and all that waste that had nowhere to go. So it overflows into my breast. My arm always felt kind of swollen as I opened up that collarbone area with the neural therapy and with the just teasing all of the fascia up, down, side to side. Same with on my trap and just opening the space around where it all drains into. Opened up enough that I literally like a balloon deflated. And that was my lymphatics kind of like recirculating and draining out. And it gave me like immense relief and was one of those aha moments for me. So like because 75% of your lymphatic strains right into your left side, that's where you start. Right. So and that is what they teach with pumping your nodes here. But we're not pumping, we're teasing fascia. You know, if you're advanced, you can be cupping the fascia. If you're. If you have a manual therapist that understands they can even loosing the whole shoulder complex helps clear this. So that's how we're like a little bit different. How are you rotating in your ribs, releasing your ribs. Ribs hold on and don't let you drain a lot if they're stagnant too. And that comes back into breathing as well. But you know, there's that manual component that can start to open it up because again there's too much pressure, there's not enough space for the heart. The heart's electrical. The lungs are now stagnant or have too much fluid around them because of the lymphatics. And it's like compression. So to me, when I had heart palps, when I figured out, okay, I have these heart palpitations, I have tachycardia, but they're telling me nothing's wrong with my heart. And I know infections can do that. We know all that. But when I loosened my lymph enough, I would have days without that. If I ignored it and things built up, then I'd have more heart palpitations. Even. Like we get people who are having lots of heart palpitations to prop themselves up a tiny bit at night to help drain down. There's a lot gravity. There's, there's the frequency of our bodies being grounded enough. There's minerals, right. Like again, our lymph moves electrostatically, right. So, so there's that whole frequency component that comes in and there's the, there's the loss of minerals from all of the different exposures of EMF that we have. Like think of all the electricity coming at us at different ways so that stagnates our lymph. So, you know, again, we have so much coming at us. Our body's always trying to do what it has to to protect us, but sometimes it needs a little help. And when it starts to give us these symptoms, like, and we're trying to decipher them, I think this is one of the missing ones. But I see the right side stagnant a lot. With people who have really, really hard time detoxing through their liver or really stagnant liver because the liver starts to take up too much space. And then you get a backing up of everything. Even though we're only clearing 25% to the right. Like, we know people with Lyme mold toxicity, all this, they have like that right sided neck pain, that kind of gallbladder referral, it's like so common. Or even like that coat hanger tightness, it's always seems to be more to the right. Although I have seen where it's more like the left side of the liver or spleen that's taking up the space and when we work on release that then it opens up. But there's that whole. The right side can be a big, big problem with the chronic disease too. So just starting off, you would start teasing and loosening both your collarbones, your traps. Even when you work on your traps, you're activating your vagus nerve as well. And then that helps lymphatics move right or nervous system. So it's. It's complex, but the actual movement is not complex. It's just teasing your fascia, like. And we. We teach also with tools, too, because some people aren't great with their hands or they don't know if they're pushing enough. So you can use different tools.
- [15:47]
B
What are some of your favorite tools for, you know, supporting at home? Small vibrator tools. I've seen you use, like, little.
- [15:54]
A
Yeah, Like, I even have this little one here. And this is like, even one of the other gentlemen that teach lymphatics, he had this, and I just have this from when I took his course. But we use little. Like, one of them's called the tend. But it doesn't have to any little vibrating tools and anything that it's better if it's like, maybe silicone. And you can create, like, a little bit of friction up and down. You know, you can add castor oil once you start to not even advance. That's something that we can start off with. It's pretty gentle, mostly for people when they can take a binder for anything that doesn't clear. Because if you do a good job clearing through your collarbones, then you really should feel better and not hurks. But just in case you're not fully flowing through, then we know that that's gonna help bind up some of those toxins. So cupping. Because you know how some people, they just go crazy and they're too aggressive. But you can do gentle cupping on your chest, but you can easily do it on your trap very safely.
- [16:47]
B
Right.
- [16:48]
A
So we get people.
- [16:49]
B
It's interesting. I haven't seen most people do that.
- [16:51]
A
So you take the cup and you can cup your trap and you can even drag it up and down to, like, lift some of the fascia and create some of that redness, like, get a good blood flow. You could do below the collarbone. Right below. It is really safe. And it's more for frail people. Like, you don't want to, like, suction the lungs up if they're really frail in between the. But again, one pump of a cup is not going to do that. But what I find with cups is that when we're not good at feeling like even using a vibration tool or our hands, like, the cup does the kind of work for us. Another really important part where we put the cup is on the back of the shoulder. We call this the chicken wing, but it's actually called the quadrangular space. And it has to drain the whole kind of Back body. So in the course we teach you, like, where all of the lymph flows, like all the lymph from your back has to flow forward, right? So if it's in your lower back, first it flows to your sacrum. So there's sacral edema that people deal with a lot. Like that lower belly stagnation. You can clear. Help clear the back and the. You got to clear. If you, if you work on the back, you can puff out someone's belly. If you don't, work on the lower belly as well, and then the upper belly. So you start with the left, let's say you do the right and say it's your legs that are the problem. So you're going to tease all the fascia around your chest and then you're going to work on the emotional heart. So down the sternum, that thick fascia down there. And then you go all the way down to, you know, where your ribs end and the top of your belly. And you, you tease there because you want to open up each level, right? So if everything flows upwards from your legs, you don't want to start loosening your legs or the fascia on your legs or your lower belly until you've opened up your chest and you've opened up the cisterna Kylie, which is the place your tummy between your sternum and your belly button. But you're not really opening that. That's deep. But you're teasing enough. The fascia, you're. You find pressure points like you. We use people's pain points. So if you have abdominal oat that's feels stuck, like right now, my thumb's on a place that feels stuck in my belly, and I just put pressure with my thumb and then counter pressure with my other arm to, like, put some pressure in. And I just want to wait for like a gurgle or a little bit of movement or a feeling of relief or maybe gas passes or maybe you want to burp or something like that. Any, like, little space that you create, that's going to be helpful. So you work down your belly like that. And then you can start working the front of your legs. If your legs are puffy, like in those in the groin, like, or draining the back of the knees, things like that. But again, we're not working just on those lymph nodes. We're working around the lymph nodes. That's where the power is. The lymph nodes are there at a filter. They're not really. They're the ones that are Clogged up. They're not what needs personally teased. Right. It's like the tissue around them that needs opened up. So I think that's maybe like the biggest take home. We're following fascial lines, we're following superficial lines, we're following deep lines, depending on what we're doing. And again, we're trying to teach more practitioners so that we can actually refer and people can start understanding this because what we've seen is like extremely powerful. But there needs to be some consistency. And then that's why we like to teach the self care part. Because then if you're consistent and you can do it at home, even if you're not doing it perfectly, you're gonna give yourself some relief or create some space or start to like even learn something more about your body. You know, we treat, teach people to be introspective in a way, in a positive way, like, you know, not too introspective, that it's like detrimental.
- [20:17]
B
So how many times a day should somebody be checking in their fascia and trying to loosen things up, you know, keep things moving if they don't feel well, if they're dealing with stubborn symptoms, whether, yeah, they're a lying patient, like so many people who come to you or to me, or they're dealing with mold toxicity, or they're just dealing with skin issues, digestive issues. How many times a day do you want them checking on their fascia?
- [20:39]
A
Like at least twice a day. Like once in the morning, once before bed. If you can have like a small break in the day where you're able to lay down for a second, find a tight spot in your abdomen, stretch your leg across your body. Like holding like that can be really powerful. Especially like when we're having to sit all day and all of our abdomen's getting compressed. I think just having a chance to also lie down, we use your legs and we use your arms a lot. You pressure with like, say your thumb and then you're bringing your arm across your body to and to add that pressure or leaning into your hand just because there's so much stagnation, so much pressure, that's going to be helpful. So, you know, in the morning, even if you're just like, tease your chest for a little bit, tease your sternum, like even like rubbing your neck or, you know, above and below, like, that can make your day way better. When, when I was really sick and I woke up and I was like, how am I going to get through this day? If I could get. And I Taught my husband, and he's very talented at knowing how to do these type of treatments as well. Or another colleague that we learned together.
- [21:43]
B
We.
- [21:44]
A
I was able to sometimes almost feel normal, right. If I could get that really good clearing. And then I figured out, oh, I do this to myself. Like, I would always feel pressure here, so I'd always be like, pushing and hooking under my armpit and even just that, that lift, like, lifting. So if you're having, like, even right now, that makes me feel so much calmer. Just like having my. My hands under my armpits and pushing upwards. So there's a lot of that lifting stuff. Even if people have really stagnant breasts, like lifting it up, pulling it to the side, like, just like that affects the fascia, and then that in turn affects the lymphatic. So something as simple as that. I used to have terrible period cramps. And so when I had my period, I started lifting, pretty much lifting more my uterus off of my pelvic floor. And I'd feel this gurgle or something. And then I had zero cramps. Like, it was all just stuck inflammation in lymphatics that were like, stagnant there. And if you could just get that it felt almost like a bubble to move. And you're like, what really is that? Then I would, like, be completely pain free, more so than any painkiller. That's how I saw just how powerful it really can be.
- [22:56]
B
Yeah, this is so interesting to me because, you know, I healed myself from Lyme, and that was like a really debilitating experience. Several years of, like, not being able to open my hands for the first few hours of the day. Well, not really walking because I couldn't really sit or I couldn't stand and like, unwinding all of that and using all the detox tools for that and like red light and sauna and the, you know, the vibration plate and all this stuff, all the gas therapies, and then getting to the COVID era and getting long Covid and getting re exposed to black mold, and it taking a while to figure that out. I started holding fluid in brand new ways. I had a little bit of that joint pain, a little bit of limited mobility that I had had in the past. But all the fluid retention stuff was a totally new pattern. The right side of my neck wasn't draining. The, you know, my abdomen was filling up. My AR pits were puffing out in like a crazy way. And I wish I had known all these pieces because all the information I was Getting was more about superficial lymph. Are there any other, like, myths we need to bust to support people that are seeing this kind of edema and how to work through it so that they can feel empowered to get to the root causes?
- [24:10]
A
Yeah, most of the things, like I said that superficial pumping, even the like dry brushing your skin, like, that's great for exfoliation and again, your skin lymph, but again, when you're feeling how you just explained that kind of puffiness, when you just work on the skin lymph, you can flare more than anything. Like, it just. It brings more to an exit that is blocked. Right. So that, like rebounding, does it help? A little, maybe, but, like, it's not gonna ever. The vibration plate. Way more beneficial than rebounding. Is rebounding bad? No, if you can move. But the, the whole thing that. That's like really doing something great and huge for your, for your lymphatics, that's something else. Whereas, like, more like, like I said, the hydration, the minerals, the grounding, the humming, gargling, gagging, anything that, like, you know, whenever you're in a more rested state and you're not tensed up, like your fascia is not tensed up, then things flow better, right? So those are the bigger movers and shakers. Like, even when you're teasing your fascia, you're getting better blood flow, right? So more oxygenation. You get a more calming feeling when you do that. And then there's. There's all these other wonderful, wonderful therapies that you can pair with all of this. And it can help a lot because again, one of the things that I did a lot was neural therapy. And they were doing some deeper injections and it was releasing stuff in my deep lymph. But the more superficial layers weren't ready to let that go. So I was increasing pressure in different ways, and I felt more terrible than I did before until I realized I can't get that injection without having this type of treatment right after or even before and after, if I'm lucky, or doing it for myself. But even my neural therapist, I was showing him, you know, like, if you do that just like tease the fascia after, it's just like we do acupuncture on people. When you do acupuncture and you do a deep needle, sometimes you can. The fascia gets almost tangled and people, like, can't move their arm for a day. But if you work on it and you can clear it, it's actually going to have the benefit of that deep needle. But also, you know, clearing out what you affected.
- [26:13]
B
This is so interesting to me because you and I both been through all, like, the hurxing and flares where it's like, well, I tried the right thing. What functional medicine said was the right thing, or bioregulatory medicine said, this is the tool for you. And then I had a paradoxical reaction what happened to me. And it's so often we see like, right tool, wrong time or not balanced appropriately with the steps to set you up for success. So I'm really glad you're, you're highlighting this piece. One of the things that you and I both use a lot is topicals for our sensitive guys. You know, with that I have, have the mold and the infections and all the things, and they're not draining well. And what I wish I had understood earlier in my journey is that if your liver cannot keep up, it will start to overproduce lymph fluid. And it's not good lymph, it's really low quality lymph, the white cell blood count is off, the proteins are low quality. It's that whole. The solution to dilution is dilution. And it's like, okay, I can't get it out fast enough. So I'm just going to try to dilute within the tissues and buy myself some time. And that's where the edema is coming from for so many people. What do you wish people understood about, like, the lymph fascia, liver connection?
- [27:24]
A
I mean, if we're talking about topicals, like, there are things that you can put topically that go deeper, that help release, like, calm down, create space, bring down inflammation so that we don't have those reactions that you're talking about. And I know that, you know, there's different. We start with the basics. Well, what we call the basics is just castor oil, which is, you know, can go and be absorbed up to 7cm in depth. People don't realize that it breaks apart scar tissue. Like, it brings down inflammation, it helps move smooth muscle, right? So if you have that stagnant liver and it's just, just, you know, trying to survive by, like, overproducing, and you actually help it drain a little bit, then you start to get that higher quality lymph, you start to, you know, dump your bile acids so that you actually break down things properly, you start to protect your gut lining. Like, all of the things that, all of these downstream things that happen if we, if our liver's stagnant doesn't happen. So castor oil is one of the first ones. But then there's other ones. Like there's pokeweed. Pokeweed breaks down even more. We use that a lot. We use different ozonated oils that have different herbs that actually start to like, get at those infections that. That get stuck in the fascia and help clear them out. So one of them's like, we use the gamma oils or, you know, I've used para three with you. We use a lot of those immuno cream, which is, you know, has the immune cells that actually can. You can drive them in and you can start to help clean up the area. So those things are powerful and you can use them on your chest, on the areas that you want to clear. It can help you clear those areas. You can use it over your liver, over your belly once you start. And you build on that without hurting you. Because even topicals, I don't know if you find that, but topicals these days can hurts people. We have to start really small, you
- [29:29]
B
know, organic castor oil and, you know, just really gentle, thin, like not even a full pack, just like a thin layer, gently inviting the tissue to just start to move, start to drain and really controlling it, you know, where you place it based on the stagnation that you're seeing in the body. You know, really focusing on like the termini area and the armpits and just supporting this area to drain before we put a ton of pressure on the liver and say, like, because we can do great topical packs. You know, you and I love to do this. You're like ozane casserole and Para 3 and we're like stacking like five things in my DMSO, like all of that. But we would never start there for a super sensitive person directly over the liver because it's just an accelerant.
- [30:10]
A
Yeah. Even as simple as, like on days that I'm like maybe being a little bit. I don't want to call it lazy, but I'm like less symptomatic. Like, I just have my roller of organic casserole and I just roll it over my above and below my collarbones and kind of like you said on those, the apical nodes, like near the armpits and all in the chest where we want everything to clear and then just kind of do a little bit of massage there. Just that helps to bring stuff up and open up the area. Right. So if you want to start even just that gentle, it's better than nothing for sure. And it's really. You'll start to see a difference and Feel better and sleep better. And then if you're sick, you'll see, you know, maybe you'll be able to do that protocol or that herb that you couldn't do before if you're working on these areas.
- [30:54]
B
I also have really relied more and more and more over the last few years on gas therapies, and I know you do too. So I want to get your thoughts on that. Because we first discovered this, like we were using ozone a lot. You know, ozone insufflations and like ozone bagging and of course the topical ozoned oils for people, as well as like 10 pass ozone. Although you need to be really intentional about how and when to fold that into a protocol. But I don't think I would have healed from long Covid and turned it around and lost all this weight that my body could not shake without the use of the hydrogen therapies to just reduce the inflammation. But then the CO2 suit to really vasodilate and kind of wake the tissues back up. Because my body felt so shut down from head to toe from that black mold and the lung Covid situation, I just could not shake it through supplementation, couldn't reach it. What are your thoughts about that and how do you use gas therapies, gas therapy?
- [31:56]
A
It was one of the game changers for me, using it daily, like lucky enough to be able to purchase it and use it daily. I mean, it's just a potent antioxidant, crosses the blood brain barrier and just that helps your whole nervous system calm down to create space for healing. And like the CO2, I didn't have the suit, but even I had the CO2 creams that create that same kind of vasodilation. Not same. I'd say the suit is definitely better, but you know, that's what I had available. And those were things that helped me a lot. And especially like even I had a lot of rashing. And whenever I went into the CO2 suit, my rash would almost disappear getting that proper blood flow to the skin. Because I think you see that ashen look in a lot of people because your body is like, it's prioritizing where it's shunting, shunting the blood to. Right. So you see a huge difference. So I think if people have access to that, it's really powerful ozone I found really harsh for myself. Not the topical stuff. A single pass and I flared or I had just like an ozone. Well, the direct ozone was really tough. But then I had this ozonated saline like it. My veins were so sensitive and then it, like, blew up my vein, you know, Like, I don't know. And that was when my chest puffed out like that. But even though once I cleared my chest after that ozone, it obviously helped because it kills a lot. It cleans out a lot, like is. But I think it mobilizes a ton. So just like you said, you know, time and a place for those kind of ten passes and stuff. Insufflations I found helpful.
- [33:28]
B
I like the insufflations a lot. Like sinus insufflations, ear insufflations, rectal insufflations, and vaginal, depending on the context. But ozone bagging is really, really great for people who have stuck areas. Like, Michael used to bag his head
- [33:42]
A
because his head wouldn't drain. He was so underweight and his fascia
- [33:48]
B
was so tight, and his head wouldn't drain. This poor guy.
- [33:50]
A
My head wouldn't drain and, like, it would puff out like, freaking cone head. And then sometimes I get this like, severe dent. But it was like this right here. And sometimes it would be like so. So full. It was hot, like. So again, working on the tissue there. And I would use a lot of like, immuno cream on the back of my neck and just like working in it, and I'd actually. I could feel it kind of draining, but that would have been cool. I never did the ozone on the. On the head.
- [34:17]
B
I know those bags are cheap, you know. Yeah, we do a lot of ozone insufflations and bagging at the clinic. And, you know, I actually think your experience about single pass ozone is way more common than people realize. Like, we take sensitive people through eboo, which is a much deeper, more productive use of ozone in the body, you know, because you're pulling the blood out your oxygen and pulling it back in, and it's actually tolerated so much better because of the filtration process.
- [34:48]
A
Yes, yes.
- [34:49]
B
Versus just like throwing ozone into the blood, you know?
- [34:53]
A
No, because they recirculate it. So this is the thing, right? So they take out a whole bag of blood to ozonate it. And when they took out that blood, I felt so much better. I was like, can you just dump that blood? Like, I do not want it. I don't want it. It's dirty, it's gross. And then they. They spun the ozone in, and as it started coming back in, like, my heart palps my started feeling like the prickly feeling. Like it was. Oh, it was tough for me for sure. But if they had filtered out that nasty stuff after spinning it in there, that Would have been a whole different thing. But I've never actually done the EBU because I think I've been so, like, nervous because of that. But I'm now willing for sure.
- [35:29]
B
I gotta show you this test I ran on myself then because, oh, you know, we're such nerds. We went to, you know, A for M in December and that. That hotel room was so moldy. And I knew it. You and I are like, litmus test for this, right? So you walk in, you know, immediately, oh, crud. And the hall was moldy and it's like, okay, you know, I've got my stuff with me. I'll be fine. But I didn't feel amazing afterwards. We were only there for a couple of days, but I went and did an IBU because, you know, right at the clinic, we just like made a beeline back home for that. And I got a ton of filtration stuff out, like enough liquid that I could send it in and pretend it was a urine sample to Vibrant for the total tox bundle. So I just pretended it was urine just to see what would happen. And it came back so high in these black mold markers that I haven't had before. And I was like, I knew it.
- [36:21]
A
I gotta do that. I have to do that now. I have to come there. I'm in Dominican and I. There was water damage, there's been lots of rain and you could see the walls start bubbling in this place I rented for two months. And while we were out, they peeled it off. I. Unfortunately, I wish I didn't even say anything because they just peeled it off and they let the spores go, like, just willy nilly. I can't even walk in the door now without having my blood pressure go up. We're moving out of there. I'm out of there right now. But like, like, I am. I am like you. I can feel it. Whereas everyone else is in there cleaning up. No one's wearing a mask. And I'm like, what? You know, I can feel when those things happen. And speaking of lymphatic drainage, like, I've been nice and drained, not like having a lot of stagnation and then just like puffed right back out after and had to like, work all here, work all around the tissue for the last two days, and then I can now recover faster. I took my binders that I know bind up the mycotoxins. I feel better, but, you know, it's still in your system, but right away, like, the liver pain that radiates to my neck, which I haven't had in at least a year and a half. And like, you know, this feeling in my. That's one thing I wanted to talk about, which I think is missed, is the cerebral spinal fluid as being part of that glymphatic system. We were just talking about Michael's head, my head, that's. Your cerebral spinal fluid doesn't have anywhere to go. It leaks out the dura. Then you get like. It's like in the scalp, right? So. So we do a lot of work face down where we're working along the whole spine, like, right beside the spine, making sure there's like a finger depth. Or we can get our finger in between your spinous process and your tvp, it's called. It's like this time. And if we can't, if we're able to, like, pump that or create a little bit of space, the brain starts to drain. People feel less of those. A lot of neurological symptoms they're getting from, like, the dirty csf, and it helps, like, to start to flow it and pump it. If you think of, like, you know, craniosacral type of treatment, right? They're. They're in a more gentle way, changing pressure to help drain the whole dura, cerebral spinal fluid kind of thing. And if you can work on even pumping your partner's ribs, if they're laying face down, as if you have a table where their face can be flat and you just go up the rib heads and you just pump, you're going to help clear the cerebral spinal fluid. So, like, it's not talked about enough how the CSF is part of our lymphatics, and when your lymphatics is stagnated, like, think about all the, like, head symptoms that we get with all of these chronic infections, right? So if we can help the cerebral spinal fluid move out, help the glymphatic system in some way shape or form, our immune system starts to work better. So if we talk about stagnation, so when you have a puffy area and it's hot and red, there's dirt, there's gunk in there. If you think it's like a pond, that's a little stagnated area, but if you think of a flowing river, it's still the same body of water, but it's pristine and clear. Like, when. When things are flowing, our body can clean them up. So the. The more that we can force that along, when our body can't really do it by itself, like, the more we can help our body clear these Infections and toxins. Not just infections, but the toxins as well.
- [39:31]
B
Yeah, that's what I used to tell Michael. A moving stream runs clean. You have to move. You have to move the tissue.
- [39:36]
A
I like your rhymes, kind of.
- [39:39]
B
I know for people listening. I need to ask you a serious question as we wrap up today. Actually, I have two serious questions for you. You and I have both been through hell with our health and we have pulled ourselves out of it. I'm very at peace with that now and all the, you know, lost years. Like I. I don't grieve for that time at all. I feel so good and on mission about what we're doing now. You know, every one of these like episodes and like every. Everything that we've been through, I try to turn into a love letter for the people listening and following both of us because we're some of the few examples of people who really had to walk the talk and pull ourselves out of this when the answers weren't easy. What do you wish you had known when you were really in the depth of like your line being reactivated and you knew all the functional medicine stuff and it's still the answers weren't coming, like what was overlooked? What do you wish you had known?
- [40:32]
A
I think we covered a lot of them here. Like again, the lymphatic stagnation. Honestly, I tell everybody about the gas therapies, the topicals, the homeopathics became so much more powerful for me looking at it from a different lens to like help the body get rid of something as opposed to maybe not always like directly killing it at the start. Minerals, minerals, frequency. I mean those type of things. Like I wish I. I knew about them and I was reading about them, but I didn't really get it. Get it connecting back with the earth for sure. Like again, partially when I got sick, I was up in a tower as well. Like I lived in a condo high up. That's big. But like the whole mineral thing for me because again it was this mineral IV that really was a game changer for me. And then I realized like how depleted all the different electricities make us, like all the wifi. So I think that one of my aha moments cuz once I introduced those in a real way, that was really helpful. I do think we've covered the nervous system stuff again. I want to just end by saying it's driving me crazy when I hear people say you just have to regulate your nervous system. You know, they've done 5 million things. I know someone who's literally Gone as far as, like, one of their, like, organs is removed. And that's what helped them feel better. And they're like, all you have to do is regulate your nervous system. And I'm like, well, you felt way better after you had an organ removed. That was diseased. Diseased, Right. Like, it wasn't just your nervous system. So, like, let's just clear up nervous system. You don't want it to go into overdrive. You don't want to panic when you feel something and make it worse because your cortisol goes through the roof and then you shut down your immune system more. You want to control the spirals of your nervous system, but your nervous system is hijacked because you have these toxic load. You're not clearing something you need. Your body needs help. Because someone said that to me, who I respected, and they're like, just go calm your nervous system. And I'm like, I wanna. I wanna punch you.
- [42:33]
B
I agree with you. I have a podcast episode coming out about this because it is the most revolting form of gaslighting to me. Oh, you don't need to detox. You don't need to support the body biochemically, even though your body's under siege. Just ignore that and support the nervous system. It's like, what do you think the nervous system is? It is the command center for your body. It is a physical system.
- [42:56]
A
And also, can we talk about how we had to go through some hard things sometimes and. And that's okay to an extent too, that you're. Sometimes you do feel a bit worse before you feel better, but you don't just quit. Like, you have to get over humps. Like, this isn't like a straight line of healing. Like, you're going in the right direction, but there's dips and there's valleys as your body clears stuff out. I show a slide a lot when I'm teaching, even about lymphatics and, like, the stagnation that's going on in there. And I show a picture of like. Like, what should be like, this clear background in a live blood cell and it's just full of waste. My nervous system is responding to the waste. That's why I was hijacked. So if I'm just going to sit there and waste away and, like, I don't know, say some affirmations or tell myself I'm okay, it's not going to help to the extent that you need. And I see those people who disappear for the while because they got talked into that. They think they just have to primal trust their way out of something. And that's not, you can't just use that. That's a great tool that you use along with getting things out to state
- [43:57]
B
to support your body, to do the deeper work. It's not either or, it's both. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. It's nervous system support and deeper fascia, deeper detox work, you know, gotta clear out the toxins and the infections and
- [44:12]
A
I think the emotional aspect of things that people talk about, past trauma can only be accessed at certain times once you're out of that hijacked phase, like I think sometimes we're trying to address the wrong things at the wrong time. So those are things that I like.
- [44:28]
B
You're not going to talk therapy your way out of a mold driven depression and your body's going to feel a whole lot safer to tackle any deep seated issues once it's no longer trying to withstand a mold onslaught. I love you so much as a person, as a colleague, as a fellow chronic illness warrior. You know, of course we're featuring your work as a faculty member in Toxin University. You know your, our director of structural, lymphatic and fascia and care and all that stuff here at the Sala Center. What do we call you? Your structural director? I don't remember.
- [45:05]
A
I'm not good with titles. We'll have to get it. We'll have to.
- [45:08]
B
It's on the website. I don't remember. I also want to really underscore that you have this body of work as a pioneer in this field and you can speak to this intersection of functional medicine and chiropractic care, nervous system, forward support. It's deeply informed by what's going on with the root cause exposures of today, the mold, the EMFs and how these infections can take hold and get stuck in the tissues. So the way you've pioneered your own technique about this is so cool to watch you turn your personal frustrations and all this knowledge that you've deeply steeped yourself in from all these different disciplines into your own body of work. I want to make sure people know how they can learn from you, both as you know, somebody working on their own health and also, you know, practitioners.
- [46:01]
A
Our course is going to be out soon. We're releasing two body parts by the end of March. So first the chest and then the abdomen. So but we're doing some in person work as well that are going to be like pop ups. So if you're a practitioner and want to learn, then Those will be posted on our website, which is vegasclinic.com you can also find us on Instagram, either Vegas Clinic or my personal one which is Dr. Scanishrero. And again, we're gonna have the course platform we're gonna have. We already have a lot of information that we, that we give for free. We have a YouTube channel. So yeah, there's multiple different ways. We're gonna be on Detoxin University. We're gonna start getting it out there because it is, is really important and we can really help people a lot get through some, some dark times. And I don't want people to feel helpless ever. And I think that we share that and that's why we share our stories so much and try to help people troubleshoot through with information that we didn't have at the time when we were suffering.
- [47:08]
B
Well, I think you're a ray of light in the space. So thanks for everything you do and thanks for being so generous with the information that you share, especially today.
- [47:18]
A
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
- [47:21]
C
Thanks for spending this time with us today. I know these conversations can bring up a lot and I want you to have room to sit with what you learned and let it land in your own body. If you want more support or you're curious about the next step on your healing path, you can always connect with me. Find me on Instagram hedetoxnation and explore resources mentioned in the episode@detoxnation.com this conversation is shared for education and personal reflection and isn't medical advice. Please always work with your trusted healthcare providers for your care. I'm really glad you're here and I'll see you in the next episode.