Devil and the Deep Blue Sea: BONUS Episode Summary

Episode: BONUS: Livestream Q&A with Mike Kosper, Matthew D. Taylor, and Robert Downen
Release Date: June 9, 2025
Host/Author: Christianity Today

Introduction

In this bonus livestream Q&A episode of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea, the hosts Mike Kosper, Matthew D. Taylor, and Robert Downen engage with special guests to delve deeper into the themes explored in the main series. The conversation centers around the enduring impact of the Satanic Panic, the influence of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) on modern politics, particularly in Texas, and the pervasive corruption and abuse within Christian institutions.

Key Discussions

1. Remembering a Survivor: Dwayne Rollins

Timestamp: [48:14] - [51:44]

Robert Downen pays tribute to Dwayne Rollins, a courageous survivor whose testimonies were pivotal in uncovering the abuse crisis within the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). Downen shares personal reflections on Rollins' bravery and the profound impact his loss has had on the community. The discussion underscores the immense personal cost borne by survivors who step forward to challenge entrenched abuses within religious institutions.

Robert Downen: "Dwayne was someone that I got to be very close with over the last few years... it's a testament to the devastating effects of child abuse, especially when it's kind of coupled with divine justifications."

2. Amy Isham's Exorcism Case Study

Timestamp: [06:46] - [17:14]

Listener and member of the show's Facebook group, Amy Isham, presents a harrowing case from rural Australia in the early 1990s involving Joan Leonora Taylor. The account details how Joan's family, influenced by deliverance ministers, subjected her to extreme and abusive exorcism practices, culminating in her tragic death. Isham highlights the intersection of mental health issues and religious fanaticism, illustrating the real-life consequences of the Satanic Panic mentality.

Amy Isham: "They are treating innocent lives with this dark theology and bad practices, leading to tragic outcomes."

3. The New Apostolic Reformation's Influence on Politics

Timestamp: [17:44] - [42:36]

Matthew Taylor and Rebecca Sebastian explore the New Apostolic Reformation's (NAR) significant role in shaping contemporary American politics. They discuss how NAR leaders have steadfastly supported Donald Trump, interpreting his presidency through a theological lens that views him as God's anointed leader. The conversation delves into the propagation of conspiracy theories, the entrenchment of Christian nationalism, and the strategic alignment of NAR with political agendas to influence legislation and cultural norms.

Rebecca Sebastian: "They are just saying, we're going to reset American culture, entrench them in power so that they never have to grapple with being on the losing side again."

4. Christian Nationalism and Legislative Actions in Texas

Timestamp: [30:22] - [42:36]

Robert Downen discusses the rise of Christian nationalism in Texas, highlighting recent legislative initiatives influenced by NAR ideologies. Bills such as the Ten Commandments in Classrooms and the allowance of optional school prayer exemplify the efforts to embed religious principles into public education. The hosts examine the broader implications of these policies, including the distortion of American founding principles and the push for a theocratic-like governance structure.

Mike Kosper: "The infrastructure of this movement has been slowly built since the 80s... they are also calling for unfettered capitalism that effectively would end anything resembling our current labor rights and workers rights system."

5. Abuse and Corruption Within Christian Institutions

Timestamp: [42:36] - [46:35]

The conversation shifts to the systemic abuse within Christian institutions, particularly within the Southern Baptist Convention. The hosts discuss how the same movements that propagate moral righteousness have been breeding grounds for corruption and abuse, often cloaked under the guise of spiritual warfare. The narrative highlights the hypocrisy and moral failings of leaders who preach against evil while perpetuating it within their communities.

Rebecca Sebastian: "There's this powerful narrative that says the evil is out there, the evil is in the culture, and we can diagnose that evil, and then we can go after and conquer it. And we are on the side of the angels, so we're righteous."

Notable Quotes

• Matthew Taylor: "If God has put an anointing on someone, if God has given you this special gifting in their theology, that anointing is irrevocable."

• Mike Kosper: "It's a testament to the devastating effects of child abuse, especially when it's kind of coupled with divine justifications."

• Rebecca Sebastian: "They're trying to reset American culture, entrench them in power so that they never have to grapple with being on the losing side again."

Conclusions and Reflections

The bonus episode of Devil and the Deep Blue Sea offers a profound exploration of how religious movements, under the guise of spiritual warfare and moral righteousness, can perpetrate real-world harm and influence societal structures. Through personal testimonies, case studies, and in-depth discussions, the hosts illuminate the complexities and dangers of conflating faith with extremist political agendas. The episode serves as a cautionary tale about the perils of unchecked religious fervor and the importance of safeguarding against the misuse of spiritual authority.

Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the lasting impact of the Satanic Panic and the ongoing influence of the New Apostolic Reformation in shaping modern American society and politics. By remembering survivors and critically examining the intersection of faith and power, Devil and the Deep Blue Sea invites listeners to reflect on the true nature of evil and the importance of vigilance in protecting innocent lives from manipulation and abuse disguised as spiritual practices.

Note: For those interested in further exploring the topics discussed, it is recommended to follow the podcast's Facebook page and YouTube channel for updates on future episodes and additional resources.