Brooke Shields – on Growing Up Famous & Learning to Trust Herself

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode: Brooke Shields – on Growing Up Famous & Learning to Trust Herself
Date: May 12, 2026
Guest: Brooke Shields
Location: Café Cluny, West Village, New York City

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Main Theme

This episode features an intimate and wide-ranging conversation between Jesse Tyler Ferguson and the iconic Brooke Shields. Over a meal at Café Cluny, they discuss Brooke's experiences growing up famous, the challenges and nuances of finding her own voice and independence, her relationship with her mother, the scrutiny she faced from media, and what it means to age and evolve as a woman in Hollywood. The conversation also touches on parenting, comedy, finding validation, and her current projects—including her new show, “You’d Kill Me."

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reconnecting & Shared Life Moments

• Jesse and Brooke reminisce about meeting on vacation before both had children, celebrating New Year’s together, and later navigating life changes just before the pandemic.
• Memorable Quote:
  Jesse: “I feel like you were just having your baby in Puerto Rico. I was just about to have my baby.” (04:00)

2. Brooke’s Accident and the Importance of Human Connection

• Brooke recounts recovering from a serious femur break during COVID, feeling invisible in the hospital, and making conscious efforts to humanize moments with her nurses and doctors.
• She describes intentionally connecting with hospital staff to resist the isolation of being “just a body in a bed.”
• Notable Quote:
  Brooke: “I became really aware and intent of everything the doctors were saying… And they were like, are you Googling? I was like, I’m not webmd-ing anything, because if I do, I will have everything in there. I will be dying.” (06:57–07:07)
• Jesse: “What a beautiful thing to do, to just remember, like, oh, Human connection is like a great healer in itself.” (07:27)

3. Growing Up in the Spotlight

• Brooke explains never knowing anonymity and the life-altering effects of fame from childhood, recalling being “11” when her notoriety became acute.
• Discusses the psychological impact: oscillating between feeling isolated, having to break the ice in crowds, and fighting against a feeling of invisibility.
• Brooke: “I never knew relative anonymity…so it’s something that you don’t know what you’re missing.” (10:05)
• She emphasizes that her true passion was always for the work, not for fame itself.

4. Career Survival, Commodification, and Lessons from Her Mother

• Brooke reflects on how her mother, who managed her career, instilled a “hustle” mentality—taking any gig if it meant a better life.
• She acknowledges mixed feelings about career choices driven by money rather than craft, but also the security and flexibility it’s ultimately provided for her family.
• Brooke: “That’s my mom…It was all transactional to get a better life. So in a way that doesn’t nurture a career or a talent…” (15:10)
• She explains the pivotal difference between focusing on art versus treating her persona as a commodity.

5. Lost Roles, Impostor Syndrome, and the College Escape

• Brooke opens up about frequently losing iconic roles (e.g., to Uma Thurman), feeling not “sexy enough” or “too famous,” and the resulting feeling of never being “good enough.”
• She credits Princeton as a crucial escape and self-discovery period—even though intense homesickness nearly made her quit.
• Brooke: “Thank God for college, because I found myself in college…Intellectually and emotionally differently.” (18:18)
• She shares the story of her mom urging her not to quit college, referencing a childhood hula hoop contest as an analogy for perseverance.

6. Media Scrutiny and Public Judgment

• Upon graduating from college, Brooke anticipated Hollywood’s respect for her intellectual credentials but instead found the press resented her, with Life Magazine publishing her grades and intrusive questions from Barbara Walters.
• Brooke: “Life magazine printed my entire academic record from Princeton…Insane that Barbara Walters asked me my measurements.” (27:59–28:18)

7. Generational Shifts & Family Reflections

• Jesse highlights the powerful kitchen-table scene from the documentary “Pretty Baby: Brooke Shields,” where her daughters openly critique her early films.
• Brooke notes the importance of having raised children who aren’t afraid to voice opinions—a stark contrast to her own voicelessness as a young star.
• Brooke: “Thank God your children aren't afraid of being judged for having an opinion...I didn't even know I had an opinion until I went to college.” (34:18–35:02)

8. Reclaiming Agency, Comedy, & TV Success

• Brooke discusses learning to trust her comedic instincts, specifically a pivotal moment on “Friends” where improvising a laugh led to a starring sitcom role (“Suddenly Susan”).
• She explains the personal significance of being allowed to embrace physical comedy, and how her new show, “You’d Kill Me,” empowers her to combine wit and drama with authenticity.
• Brooke: “You don’t often get your instincts respected…sometimes your instincts are wrong. It does happen.” (43:06–43:11)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• On Hospital Recovery & Humanization:
  “I would remember one thing about each of [the nurses]... so they were humanized. And then I became, like, a person instead of a body in a bed.” — Brooke Shields (06:50)
• On Early Fame:
  “By 12... People are trying to cut your hair off at the Cannes Film Festival. You’re like, oh, this is not for me.” — Brooke Shields (09:35)
• On Fame vs. Craft:
  “If it affords me more opportunity to work, then it’s worth everything. Because I’m not interested in fame... I coveted doing more work and getting an opportunity to keep learning and growing as a talent.” — Brooke Shields (10:20)
• On the College Turning Point:
  “She [my mother] said to me, you’ll never forgive yourself if you give up. You’re not a quitter. Remember the hula hoop?” — Brooke Shields (22:23)
• On Media Intrusion:
  “Life magazine printed my entire academic record from Princeton…[and] Barbara Walters asked me my measurements.” — Brooke Shields (27:59–28:18)
• On Intergenerational Dialogue:
  “Thank God your children aren’t afraid of being judged for having an opinion...I didn’t even know I had an opinion until I went to college.” — Brooke Shields (34:18–35:02)
• On Comedy and Instinct:
  “You don't often get your instincts respected...and sometimes your instincts are wrong. It does happen.” — Brooke Shields (43:06–43:11)
• On New Creative Freedoms:
  “From day one [on 'You'd Kill Me'], they have allowed me to be funny and do things that are not cool. You know, me climbing into a window with my, you know, butt hanging out, whatever...” — Brooke Shields (39:00)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment/Theme | |--------------|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:25–05:35 | Recalling early meetings and mutual parenting journeys | | 05:36–08:55 | Brooke’s accident, hospital recovery, and the power of human connection | | 08:56–11:22 | Growing up famous—never knowing anonymity, learning to break isolation | | 14:28–15:44 | Reflecting on industry ageism, “commodity” status, and lessons from her mother | | 17:11–18:37 | Losing out on roles, impostor syndrome, validation and growth in college | | 20:38–24:43 | Parental relationships, leaving home and individuation, evolving from her mother | | 26:59–28:18 | Media scrutiny post-college, Life Magazine, and Barbara Walters anecdote | | 33:26–36:40 | Family discussions, generational change, Pretty Baby documentary reflections | | 38:13–40:41 | New show (“You'd Kill Me”), creative autonomy, reclaiming comedy and agency | | 41:10–44:03 | Comedy breakout (“Friends,” “Suddenly Susan”), respecting instincts as an actress |

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Tone & Atmosphere

Conversational, open-hearted, candid, and peppered with humor. Both Jesse and Brooke are refreshingly vulnerable while discussing vulnerable topics, but they infuse their stories with warmth and self-awareness.

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For Listeners: Why This Episode Stands Out

• Industry Insights: Offers a rare, honest look at surviving—and thriving—in an industry obsessed with youth, beauty, and celebrity.
• Personal Reflection: Brooke’s openness about her struggles with identity, validation, and familial entanglement is both relatable and deeply moving.
• Humor & Heart: The episode balances serious themes with light-hearted self-deprecation and the playful camaraderie between Jesse and Brooke.
• Generational Wisdom: Explores how attitudes toward fame, agency, and voice have shifted from one generation to the next, especially for women.
• Inspiration: Brooke’s journey offers lessons in resilience, boundary-setting, and the ongoing work of learning how to trust oneself.

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Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right now, our family is living that New York theater life. I'm performing in a play right now called Tru where I get to play Truman Capote, and the kids are here with me. And I'm working in the city, which is amazing.

[Brooke Shields]

I love it so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It also means I'm juggling a lot between rehearsal schedules, school drop offs, figuring out dinner in between shows, and then making sure everyone has what they need. It's hard enough just getting through the day, let alone planning ahead. And while we're here in New York, fully immersed in this, you know, season of life, it got me thinking about how our place back home is just sitting empty. If you're going to be away for a while, like me, listing your space on Airbnb can be a great way to put your space to use and earn a little extra cash while you're gone. And the idea of doing it all by yourself, see, that just feels like too much. That's where Airbnb's co host network comes in. You can partner with a local vetted co host who can handle all the behind the scenes details. So hosting feels manageable. Even when your schedule is as packed as mine might be, Co hosts can create your listing, manage reservations, handle guest communication, and even provide on site support. So you're free to focus on the busy season ahead. If you're ready to get started, find a co [e-mail] host. You know those meals that just immediately take you somewhere? Like, you take one bite and suddenly you're transported to a backyard. Someone's manning the fryer and everyone's waiting for a taste. That's exactly what Boar's Head has managed to do. But at your deli counter, new from Boar's Head, the Fryer's turkey breast has the taste of deep fried turkey. And I mean, it's perfectly seasoned. That golden, savory flavor, it really does that thing where one bite kind of takes over and you're like, oh, okay, this is what we're doing now. And the best part is you don't have to host anything. You don't have to fry anything. You don't have to politely ask someone else to handle the hot oil, which frankly, I'm always happy to avoid. It's just there at the deli, ready to go. So if you're putting together a sandwich or just standing at the counter deciding what kind of day you're going to have, the Fryer's turkey breast is a pretty great choice. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905. Hey, it's Jessie today on the show. You know her from Blue Lagoon. Suddenly Susan, Lipstick Jungle. She has a new show out on

[Brooke Shields]

amc, Acorn called you'd kill me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It is the icon herself, Brooke Shields.

[Brooke Shields]

I mean, I practically have Suddenly Susan on a loop in the house going, mom, what's funny? Watch your mother be funny.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on Me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So today we're at Cafe Clooney, where

[Brooke Shields]

I have been coming to for years here in New York City. It's definitely a West Village institution known for its reliable take on classics. But then with a French twist, The French brioche toast is incredible.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The French omelet, I always seem to

[Brooke Shields]

lean toward the frise salad. Every time I'm here, I see an A lister. A West Village A lister. And so I thought, yes, this is the perfect place to bring my friend Brooke Shields. Because, listen, you can't get more A list than Brooke Shields.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All right, let's get to the conversation.

[Brooke Shields]

I was just going through my phone, and I found the photos.

Cause I feel like you were just

having your baby in Puerto Rico. I was just about to have my baby. I feel like we had met before, probably very briefly, but we had never really, like, connected.

No.

And Justin and I were sitting in Puerto Rico. You were on vacation with your family. And I remember I had stickers on my ipods because Justin and I have the exact same ipod cases. And so I was like, these are mine, these are his. But I just put stickers on. And you came over and you're like, oh, do you have kids? Oh, this was your icebreaker. And I was like, oh, no. But ironically, I'm about to have a kid. And like, six months. And we ended up having kind of

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

like, we celebrated New Year's Eve together.

[Brooke Shields]

Yeah.

I gotta show you these photos.

Brooke.

We look so cute.

We were very happy. Oh, we were so happy. And we had those things on our head.

Look at.

Yes. I was so happy for you guys. I remember being super excited for you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know.

[Brooke Shields]

Babies.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Babies were coming.

[Brooke Shields]

And we were. Now we have two.

And then you sent me your announcement. I wasn't in la.

Yes. Yes.

I couldn't go to that.

I know. For the. For the baby shower.

Yeah.

But what's so crazy is, like, right before. Like, that. Those were, like, months before COVID Like, everything shut down. And I remember the next time I

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

saw you, you had.

[Brooke Shields]

You were recovering From a broken femur.

Oh, man. It was one of the worst experiences of my life. I'm so glad I'm alive.

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, you had a cane.

[Brooke Shields]

I know. And that was good. That was after being in hospital for a month.

Insane. It's mind blowing to me that something so, like. I know you were, like, just on an exercise.

Yeah. On, like, a balance thing.

Balance thing. And, like, flew up in the air and. But I mean, that think something like that could happen so fast, but also that you were recovering so quickly too. I mean, I know it was. It probably felt like an eternity for you, but.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then to do it during COVID

[Brooke Shields]

when everything was, like, wacky with, like, going to hospital and, like, seeing doctors,

like, doing rehab by Zoom, it's, like, surreal.

Yeah.

I was feeling so invisible because it's Covid, and I thought, oh, my God, if I, like, if this is it, like, really, if this is it, I have to go out registering somehow. And so I started listening intently, not just to my diagnoses as they were talking, so that I could ask good questions, but I remembered something about each of the nurses because they switch shifts every 20 minutes or something. Like, you get different people. And so I would remember one thing about each of them, and then the next time I'd say, hey, how was your son's second year birthday on Zoom? Was it fun at all? And they'd be like, oh, well, yes. And his grandmother sent us, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so they were humanized. And then I became, like, a person instead of a body in a bed. And, I mean, granted, I was young enough to, you know, a lot of the people on that floor, the people who are breaking hips and femurs, are not my age. They're older. And, like, I became really aware and intent of everything the doctors were saying. And we remember it, ask them about it the next day. So that. And they were like, are you Googling? I was like, I'm not webmding anything, because if I do, I will have everything in there. I will be dying.

Right.

I'll be convinced I am dying.

Yeah.

So, no, I'm not stupid enough to go look at WebMD.

Catastrophizing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you feel like you came out

[Brooke Shields]

of that process, like, changed? I mean, it sounds like even just that exercise, like, trying to connect with people, which is not, like, a groundbreaking concept, but it is like, you know, in that time when we were so separated from one another and, you know,

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

you are feeling invisible.

[Brooke Shields]

Like, what a beautiful thing to do, to just remember, like, oh, Human connection is like a great healer in itself.

Yeah. I mean, I think I've always felt that because I think for some. Well, for obvious reasons, I guess I'm always, like, instantly isolated. Like, I'm reminded of that scene in. Oh, God, Last Year at Marion Bad. It was a French film, and it was very avant garde, and it was the first time I'd ever seen a reverse zoom. So we're also programmed to see this and then go into that. This started here and just zoomed out and it was like. As a cinematic tool, it really struck me. And, like, I wrote a paper on it and I. I was like, oh, I often feel that way. Like, even. Like, especially in a crowd of people, I instantly am like. Like, it's. I'm on display or something. There's something in there. So I. I think that I've understood from an early. Early on that break the ice immediately or say, you know, hey, I like that shirt. You know, and kind of get people like, oh, thank you. It was my. You know, and then all of a sudden, you're like, okay, now maybe they can just at least see me.

Yes.

Hear me. You know what I mean? Like, it's. You get used to it. Because I think the opposite, or the alternative is complete isolation.

Right.

You know, just get smaller and tighter and. And stick to. Because it's all too much. And I didn't want to. I could do that really easily.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it's interesting that you kind of

[Brooke Shields]

had to consciously keep that in check, because I feel like, you know, so many people just cannot relate to being someone who's been in the public eye as long as you have. I mean, I've been in the public eye for a lot of years, but, like, not since I was, you know, preteen. I mean, it's very intense.

11. Yeah, 11.

That was your first. I mean, you know, and obviously working before that. But, like.

But I wasn't cognizant at 11 months old.

Sure. Right, right, right.

By 12. And people are trying to cut your hair off at the Cannes Film Festival. You're like, oh, this is not for me.

Right, right.

You know, so. But I get. But there's another thing about that, though, which. Cause I grappled with trying to reconcile it and a. There's nothing to do about it. Right. It just is. But also, like, I. I never knew relative anonymity.

Right.

So it. It's something that you don't know what you're missing. Choose it or not. That you haven't been robbed of something that you really treasured in a way.

Oh, that's interesting. I never thought about it that way.

And then that's the way I kind of psychoanalyze things. Because otherwise you just won't go crazy. Do you know what I mean? Like, you can. And you can start feeling victimized, which is the worst, right? You know, you can all of a sudden start pitying yourself and losing sight of the blessings that do come with being whatever that thing is. Does it. What does it afford you? Does it? For me, if it affords me more opportunity to work, then it's worth everything. Because I'm not interested in fame or like, that's nothing I ever coveted. I coveted doing more work and getting an opportunity to keep learning and growing as a talent, which I didn't really have much opportunity when I was coming up because I became famous so fast that it was just sort of all of that.

Right

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Brooke talks about how her mom taught her to hustle for a buck and why it's so valuable now and why she almost dropped out of Princeton. Okay, be right back. I am always trying to cook more at home. The one thing I do know is if you start with really good ingredients, everything just gets easier. That's exactly why I love Wild Alaskan Company. They deliver wild caught, perfectly portioned seafood straight to your door. And it makes cooking fish at home feel so incredibly easy. What sets them apart is that everything is 100% wild caught, never farmed, no antibiotics, no GMOs, no additives. Just really high quality seafood that you can feel really good about eating. It's also frozen right off the boat to lock in flavor and texture. And everything is sustainably sourced from Alaska. My current favorite is their sockeye salmon. It has this gorgeous vivid red color and such rich flavor that it barely needs anything. The other night, Justin was showering me with praise about this salmon that I made for him. It was so amazing. It's the best he's had in so long.

[Brooke Shields]

I didn't tell him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just sprinkled on a little salt, olive oil, and lemon juice that that was it. It was just the really great fish. That was a star. Although I do have very nice pants here, if I do say so myself, so I did that part. And if you're trying it for the first time, there's no risk. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company will give you a full refund, no questions asked. Not all fish are the Same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wild alaskan.com/jtf for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wild alaskan.com/jtf for dollars off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode.

[Cafe Clooney Waitstaff]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026, the Coca Cola Company Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca Cola Company. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Cafe Clooney Waitstaff]

Did you two need some more time with the menu?

[Brooke Shields]

I usually have the frise salad. I think I might do that.

[Cafe Clooney Waitstaff]

Would you like an extra poached egg on there?

[Brooke Shields]

No, I think just one's fine.

I think I'll do the omelette, spinach, tomato, gruyere and mixed greens, please. Maybe a mushroom in there is fine, too.

Just one mushroom.

Just one little baby mushroom. One little lonely mushroom. Baby mushroom.

[Cafe Clooney Waitstaff]

Do you like your omelette soft, medium, or well done?

[Brooke Shields]

Well done, please. Thank you. No. And then the other piece of it, which I've kind of understood lately, is that, like, as an actress and an aging one, you age out pretty quickly, right? In a way. I mean, yes, there are more roles being written for my age group and, you know, and with a lot of my contemporaries that are working a lot more. And, yes, we're seeing that more. So that's positively changing. But if I didn't have this other element of being a commodity, I probably wouldn't be able to live as well as I do because I can ferret out money making gigs that are not. Don't jeopardize my career. Like, my work. Right? That's my mom. Like, that's my mom sort of Wanting, like, look, we can get a car if we do this. We can get a better apartment if we do this. It was all transactional to get a better life. So in a way that doesn't nurture a career or a talent because, you know, after Pretty Baby, my next. Or after, let's say, Blue Lagoon. Right. My next move wasn't a Natalie Portman move, which was go on Broadway and play Anne Frank. That creates you as a thespian, as a actress. I had Brook dolls and hairdryers with my name on them, you know, and was doing kind of, you know, shitty TV movies, like. Because then we got to go on vacation, like, so it was a non. There was no plan. But in hindsight, it has afforded me a nice life and better schools for my kids. Like, all of those things that I now go, oh, I don't resent that anymore, because in this era of my life, I can use it probably till I'm however old.

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you ever feel that?

[Brooke Shields]

Do you remember feeling when you were younger that you wish you had more opportunities like that? Did you?

All the time for that? All the time. Obsessively.

Yeah.

And it would always be, like, between me and Uma Thurman and, like, you know, for Dangerous Liaisons, it's like they brought me through the wringer. And then for, you know, all these different. Like, I don't think I was in the Raising Arizona one, but. But there were all those conversations that you're a part of and that you went up for, you know, went out for. And then I was always just a little. Not sexy enough or too famous or. Or too well known. And I would unbalance the ensemble, so I couldn't be in an ensemble because

you're too much of an. I mean, let's face it, an icon.

Yeah. All those things, you know, and so I was shocked. Just constant, like, oh, I must be not good enough, because if I was good enough, I'd be able to get those things, and I'm not good enough. And. And, you know, and then thank God for college, because I found myself in college.

Right, right, right.

And, like, intellectually and emotionally differently so. But then when I got out of college and nobody, like, I couldn't get arrested, so it, you know, it's been sort of. It's just been a really interesting, ongoing kind of dialogue in my head.

Right.

But I always felt, you know, I was, like, even seeing Jessica the other night. Like, she came up to me. Like, she saw me, and she went. And I was just. I could not speak Yeah. I was like, hi.

I know.

I was like. And part of that is because she's just. Oh, my God. But. And just amazing in every way. But also, like, these are the women that I was like, oh, I could just be like that and get respected for my work, you know, for like my talents, you know, and then maybe I'm not good enough. Maybe that's it. You know, that's gotta be it. Because if I was gonna good enough, you know, it's like. It's like living with an alcoholic. You're like, I can make them stop if I'm just good enough that, you know, mommy will stop or daddy will start, whatever. It's like, it's the same crazy, crazy making unending. Never getting that approval because it's not possible. Right? So I really had to. And thank God for comedy. Thank God for suddenly Susan. Like, thank God for friends. Friends just flew it open. And I didn't have any problem being a comedian opposed to a serious actress, which was at that point, kind of those two things, right?

You pick a lane.

Well, you were either television or film, right. And then you were either comedian or serious because you're so.

When you're talking about having gone to college and, you know, focusing on your career and also your independence, I know that was a time when you sort of like, were able to separate from, you know, being under your mom's roof at all times. And I know that was also a very difficult thing for her to, like, let you go. I can only imagine.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, you're going through this now

[Brooke Shields]

with your kids, so you must have some empathy, like what it feels like to like, have your children go out into the world.

It's horrible.

I can't even. My kids are so much younger than yours are right now. But like, I mean, I can't even fathom how that hard that must be.

Seeing them in the rearview mirror as you're driving away from college is like a gut wrenching experience.

Do you have empathy for your mom? Having now processed.

I've always had empathy, yes. I mean, like, she of all people,

but that's specifically like letting you go.

Because you know what? That was the least. That was the most. And I wouldn't say my mom was selfish, but she was very scared and scarred. And so with that, there was this desperate. Her whole world was tied up in my love of her and her. My being her. Her. Her son, you know, and was such a source of, like, there was never going to be any letting go. Cause why, you know, but when she. I Begged to come home because I could not believe how homesick I was. Like, I couldn't believe it. I was so shocked with how. And I thought, what am I doing? I was like, what am I doing? This is stupid. I just keep working, like, why would I do this to myself? And. And, you know, the joke was I was about a summer away from becoming Grey Gardens.

A summer away.

That's so good. And then she said to me, you'll never forgive yourself if you give up. She goes, you're not a quitter. She goes, remember the hula hoop? And I'd won a hula hoop contest when I was nine, never having hula hooped. And it was on the stage of Grease for their hundredth performance. And I got up on stage and I won, and I got to meet the cast and get a vinyl record signed.

Wait, this is when you went to see Grease on Broadway?

When I was nine.

And then you went and played Brazil later.

20 years.

Full circle moments. Okay? That's the universe saying, you're doing the right thing, by the way. Yeah, that's crazy. Okay, so you won a hula hoop contest at age 9. Your mom says, remember the hula hoop contest.

Don't quit. And she just wrote, remember the hula hoop? And she said, you'll never forgive yourself. So she kind of forced me to stay, which for her was the beginning of the end, because she. That was. That was the beginning of my real individuation from her. And she never planned for it, I don't think emotionally that's really tough, you know. Yeah. Because you feel beholden, you know. But I also knew kind of how broken she was, and I thought I could do both. But she was very gracious in the most painful way for her. And you would have thought, because all she wanted was to go back to the way it was, you know. And I just give her a lot

of just the two of you working and her managing you and traveling.

Traveling, having fabulous experiences, reaping the benefits

of hard work and. Sure, yeah.

And I mean, what we didn't know is, I think, just era wise, even if I had stayed, I was not on the right trajectory for kind of improvement, you know, because we didn't have a lot to hold on to except for fame at that point, you know, So I. So I think those four years gave me a perspective enough to say, okay, I have to go about all of this differently. And it just took, you know, it took a turn because my next move was to leave her as a manager and go to an agency, which I'd never been with before. And, you know, finding out later that like, Sam Cohen wanted to represent me when I was like 14 or 15 or something, but he wanted my mom out of the picture. I never knew this. I didn't know this until she died.

I wrote you. I mean.

Yeah. And my godmother told me. And I was like, so he did think I had talent. So all these years I didn't think. I thought I was rejected by him because I wasn't talented. Meanwhile, I know that that type of valor validation doesn't necessarily mean the world, but it did to me because he was a big agent of really great actors, you know.

Right

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Brooke looks back at the media scrutiny she endured as a teenager. And we get into her new murder mystery show called you'd're killing me on AMC and Acorn. Okay, be right back.

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Brooke Shields]

So I was under the impression that I was going to come out of college a smart actress and that Hollywood was going to be like, oh, great, and now she's intelligent. This is it. So I mean, a trifecta, you know what I mean? We've got looks, fame, intelligence, hopefully talent and they were like, oh, no, no, no, we wanted you kind of dumb. Like, the press were, like, mad. It was weird. They were weirdly. They couldn't manipulate me in the same way. So instead of struggling through answering their questions like I used to, I would say, I don't think that that's what we're here to talk about. I mean, if you want to talk about. And they would be like, oh, she's not valuable anymore. Oh, we don't like her that way.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And also, didn't.

[Brooke Shields]

Didn't, like, Time. Write an op Ed or the New York Times. Write an op Ed about your.

My mom. That was. The op Ed was about my mom.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, it was about your mom. But something about your scores.

[Brooke Shields]

Life magazine. Life magazine printed my entire academic record from Princeton. I mean, I was thankful that I only got one one, you know, B. B minus or B.

It was.

Thank God, it was, like, almost all A.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was impressive, but still.

[Brooke Shields]

It's insane.

It's insane. Well, but I mean, it's also insane that Barbara Walters asked me my measurements. Like, wow, like, people are. What?

Did you ever, like, encounter her again, like, when you did the View or anything in later years?

I did.

Do you ever since, like, no, her, like, ever? Kind of like. I mean, when you know someone that long and you're on the media and you've seen them grow up, you know, in the public eye, and then, you know, you're, you know, years later at the end of your career. I'm talking about Barbara Walters, not you, but, you know, like, on the View.

Thanks for asking me on your podcast,

Jesse, but, like, you know, Barbara Walter is now, like, you know, in this, like, the twilight of her career and on the View, and. And, I mean, in having you on, I'm sure, as a guest at that point, like, there was no, like, sort of acknowledgement of, like, I've seen you through this.

Oh, no. Because that's not in her nature. You know, I mean, yeah, I think also it's like, I took everything personally, and I kind of still do. I'm much better now at not letting it affect me so much. But, you know, these women were, like, when nobody. When women weren't had any power and they're in a male world, like, they weren't thinking about me at all.

I mean, you know, that's a very generous response.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I think it is, because, you

[Brooke Shields]

know, I mean, you also lived through that and had to, like, as a young kid, go through the media machine, and that's just got to be hard in Itself.

But also, you know, what they all. Well, Barbara in particular, did she. And God rest her soul, she. Her big thing, especially on the View, was Brooke. And I go way back. Like, all of a sudden, my presence had more currency in the View scenario than it ever did on the. On the way. So it was like, oh, I'm famous and still relevant somehow in her mind or whatever, because I'm on there for something.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm working or whatever.

You do go way back.

And it was. But it was, like, validating. It was, like, so interesting to sit there and going, like, oh, she's needing validation in front of these ladies. It doesn't end. I don't care who you are. There is that. I mean, I don't know if an Oprah feels that way. Maybe she's in a different world or, you know, Diane, I mean, you know, she's been through loss. I think that, you know, makes people a little more human. But it was really interesting to me because I was like, huh, wow. I've come from that. In your mind, where you are. I mean, the discomfort that I felt at age 15, and you see it on my face standing up kind of being compared to this woman in measurements. And I stand up. I did it. Like, I didn't brush it off or anything. If someone asked me that now, you know, I'd come back with a. Some kind of a quip, you know. You know, I don't know what I would say, but it would be agency.

And you have, you know, you. You have a sense of possession of yourself now in a way that you've just. Just don't. When you're that age.

No. And my mom was sitting right there, and she was. I think she probably had already been drinking, but, like. Because I know her face, but, you know, she didn't even register that as slightly inappropriate because her thing was. As long as they're talking about you, it doesn't matter what they say. Like, keep. You know, we're on Barbara Walters. This is. You are my shining, you know, thing. My. My baby. So it didn't matter. Like, it wasn't. Also, that wasn't the era where people thought that was weird.

Well, it's in. I mean, first of all, the documentary is really. I'm really impressed that, first of all, you were so willing to be so open. And also, it's just astonishing to macro out, like, look at your career, because it is really. It is really impressive. And you've been through so much, and it's kind of miraculous knowing because I got to know you as an adult and I think you're like one of the most like level headed people I've ever met in my life. And I was like, how, how did this happen? Like, you're just, you're such a wonderful, generous, caring, compassionate person. And I was like, you have every excuse to not be like. Like you can just a fraction less than what you are and yet you aren't. And anyway, but in the documentary, It's Pretty Baby. Brooke Shields is the name of the documentary. It's a two part series. And I had watched it years ago when it first came out. We watched it before our conversation. But you know, there's a really interesting conversation that happens at the end of the movie with you and your family around the kitchen table in your brown that I've been in about, and your daughter's talking about your work and like

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

kind of,

[Brooke Shields]

you know,

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

analyzing it.

[Brooke Shields]

I'm trying to think of the right

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

words, judging it a bit.

[Brooke Shields]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But also you're really great about hearing

[Brooke Shields]

what they're saying, not making them, like

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

not making excuses for it, but at

[Brooke Shields]

the same time not apologizing for it. Because that's right happen. I loved hearing that conversation about what your daughters and what this generation respond, why, how they respond to those films. And also they hadn't seen any of them. They were just talking about it from

the information that they had. And then Greer's saying, I'm never gonna see any of those movies ever.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Has she seen any of them?

[Brooke Shields]

Still hasn't.

None of them. I mean, you know, I practically have suddenly Susan on a loop in the house going, mom was funny. Watch your mother be funny. So. Well, what was amazing about that scene was it wasn't planned like we were supposed to just do B roll. It was just gonna be B roll and have like music, you know, like before the credits, like, oh, this is her life now. And you know, it's not a complete tragedy. And Lana, the director asked one question. Have you ever seen any of your mom's movies? One question she asked, we were loved. And that was the question she asked. And that whole conversation happened. My first reaction when I even saw it after was, thank God your children aren't afraid of being judged for having an opinion. Like, even if that opinion is possibly judgmental to you or possibly not hurtful, but like it could be kind of make you feel like, oh, something bad. Right? And I was really proud of that because it didn't happen just in the moment. It happened over the course of their whole lives. Asking their opinion, having them voice it, having it not be a right or wrong, but an opinion. And having been a kid who's never asked her opinion just didn't factor in, you know, I didn't even know I had an opinion until I went to college. So intellectually, you know, I didn't know these kids thought anything of this. You know, and then seeing Pretty Baby, the film, I did not prepare Greer enough. And the first screening of it, she left in the middle.

You talk about Pretty Baby, the documentary.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Documentary.

[Brooke Shields]

So I. You know, my. It's all been so compartmentalized, and our life with our children in New York has been so. A life in New York with children. You know, it hasn't been Hollywood, and it hasn't even. When I was doing Lipstick Jungle, I was like, in the city, but I was there for the morning and there for bedtime, and. And so it was like. It was just sort of like, mommy has a job. But when they were talking about all of the things that you couldn't do today and that it was exploitation, you know, I never wanted to own up to any of that because I felt like it was going against my mom. You know, I needed to stay on her side. The other part was, I don't feel scarred from it. Like, it really was pretend. And you remember the Keith Carradine thing where I had to kiss him?

Yes.

And I was, like, freaked out because song like this.

Yeah.

And Louis Mal was getting madder, and madder was. And he was like, no, that was Endless Love. The other. The other director twisting of the toe.

But you were scratching your face.

I was like. I was like, oh, I don't want to. And he generously. He was like, 28. He said, Can I talk to her for a minute? And I was 11, you know, and he said, you know, this doesn't count as a first kiss. And I went, it doesn't. He's like, this. All of this. He goes, this is pretend. It means absolutely nothing. None of it. And I was like, oh, okay, well, I can act this. So I, you know, closed my eyes lightly and, you know, and that was everything to me. So, like, those little moments solidified this belief that it was literally just acting.

I love that you're. You're, you know, you're on TV again. I got to watch the first two episodes of your new show.

You did?

I did, yeah. It took me forever to figure out how to stream these shows with, like, a second, like, authenticator.

No, it's impossible.

It's impossible. But I did it.

Oh. Oh, thank you.

While you're telling me, it's so great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's so much fun.

[Brooke Shields]

It's so much fun.

Amc.

AMC Acorn. Yeah. You know, these, these shows, you know, you shoot them in Canada, the goal is to sell them internationally as well. And there's a formula and you know, this whole sort of world of only Murders in the Building or Murders she Wrote or, you know, there's this affinity for these things. But these shows, they can really tie your hands if you're not like creatively voice your opinion and. Really, really. And from day one, they have allowed me to be funny and do things that are not cool. You know, me climbing into a window with my, you know, butt hanging out, whatever, like, whatever those things are that previously in some of these environments they've been like, no, it makes you too unlikable or oh, no, you're, you know, you're too pretty to be funny like that. And you're just like, you finally go like, no, no. The reason why this is appealing is because this character looks the way she does, then she falls on her face and it's not slapsticky jokey, but it's, it's intelligent, self deprecating without being self diminishing humor. And I said the only way a show like this is going to differentiate itself at all in a sea of these mystery, the Irish Bloods and this one going to England and Ireland and everybody solving mysteries everywhere. And you know, it's like, and there's a murder every week and oh my God, it's like in a small town and I mean we.

The coastal town.

Yeah. Teeny sleepy town and you know, a fishing town. And so you kind of have to go, guys, you have to think outside the box for this because it's not enjoyable for me. You're not using me appropriately. So lean into that so that when we get to the dramatic stuff, it matters.

Yeah.

Otherwise it's just maudlin and boring.

I mean, it's also like a formula that worked really well on Suddenly Season two. I mean, I feel like that's what I remember so much about that it ran for four seasons and I was an avid watcher and I loved it. But just like watching, you know, you be ridiculous and you know, you're such

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

a great physical comedian which also then

[Brooke Shields]

like parlayed its way. I don't know what came first, the chicken or the egg with this. But like, I think, you know, that was also the time that like you started doing Broadway and like, well, like

Grease came at the right Time. And that was when stunt casting really hadn't happened.

Right.

So, you know, they weren't putting famous non Broadway people into these lead roles. You know, Rosie was kind of the first. Rosie o' Donnell played Rizzo. I replaced her. And that opened up a whole new world where they realized, oh, we can get a name in there, keep the show open through the holidays, make their nut or whatever. But then I got Friends. And the day after I got Friends, it was like my Lana Turner moment. The next day, my agents called and they were like, how would you like to do your own sitcom?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, stemmed off of that

[Brooke Shields]

friend's appearance because Marta Kaufman didn't let me do the crazy laugh.

Yes. You talk about this in documentary, which I love because it's such a testament also of, like, big swings pay off. So you were playing Matt LeBlanc's crazy stalker, stalker girlfriend. I know. You talk about how you did this crazy laugh and, like, kind of just

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

like, over the top and throwing your

[Brooke Shields]

ass head back and then, like, back

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

to, like, being super serious.

[Brooke Shields]

And Marta Kaufman, who's one of the creators. Co creators of Friends, David Crane, was like, that's too much. No one's gonna believe that's too wacky. And then I know how these tape nights go because you're in front of a live audience and, like, they will change things. They'll just, like, they'll figure out what works in the moment. And it was one of those things where you're doing the scene and then you heard from across the stage, marge, I love that I'm telling your story too.

No, I love it.

But, like, harder calls to you. Like, like, shield, do the. Do the back end. And so you do it.

I felt like the Macy State Parade balloon. Like, I was like, oh, my God. You know, because you're.

[Cafe Clooney Waitstaff]

If you're.

[Brooke Shields]

You don't often get your instincts respected and, you know, and does it.

And sometimes it's like your instincts are wrong. It does happen.

Oh, it happens. And. But at that moment, I was like, okay, they already have the straight one in the can, so if this sucks,

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

they can just use the other one.

[Brooke Shields]

They'll at least use the other one, right? So I thought, okay. And, you know, I went like, crazy. And it changed everything. I mean, all these guys in suits. Like, 20 minutes later, we're all walking in, and I thought, like, oh, it must be a tour. Those. Those people are in. Like, they're getting a tour of the facility. I don't know. Like, I'm in a sane asylum. Can they. And then they were executives.

Yeah.

And they brought all the executives out of their offices to come in and, like, scout me, which I had no. I. Thank God. I didn't know any of that was happening. I just. It was.

So while you were on set at Friends, they were already, like, saying we should make a sitcom.

Yeah, they were. They were. They all came down en masse.

Oh, my God.

Because after that laugh, people kind of went, how'd she. There's what that is. We never understood that.

How interesting.

Thank you so much.

I adore you for doing this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've been wanting to do this for so long.

[Brooke Shields]

I feel like we've been trying to

do it for a while.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinners On Me was recorded at Cafe Clooney in New York City's West Village. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know him from the Punisher, the Walking Dead, the Bear. He's currently starring on Broadway in Dog Day Afternoon. It's Jon Berenthal. We'll get into his intense, no BS approach to acting and how he brings such raw humanity to every character he plays. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special than thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

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