Dan Bucatinsky – On Coming Out in Hollywood, Teaming Up with Lisa Kudrow & Finding Success After 40

Summary

Podcast Summary:

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson
Episode: Dan Bucatinsky – On Coming Out in Hollywood, Teaming Up with Lisa Kudrow & Finding Success After 40
Date: March 10, 2026
Restaurant: Louise’s Trattoria, Larchmont, Los Angeles

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Episode Overview

In this candid and laughter-filled episode, Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with actor, writer, and producer Dan Bucatinsky at Louise’s Trattoria, an LA staple. The conversation covers Dan’s early career, coming out in Hollywood, the evolution of LGBTQ+ representation, creative collaborations with Lisa Kudrow, and the realities of late-blooming success. The two friends share personal stories about self-acceptance, aging in a youth-obsessed industry, and the joys and challenges of parenting as gay men.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Finding Your Place in Hollywood – Early Career & Louise’s Memories

[03:00-06:47]

• Louise’s Trattoria is a nostalgic spot for Dan, who recalls working at the Canon Theater nearby when he first arrived in LA.
• Dan describes how his early sketch show in NYC led him to LA, eventually becoming his play and film All Over the Guy – a project that kickstarted his career, thanks partly to a supportive theater owner-turned-producer.

“All of it. And the woman who produced that little play ... told me to turn it into a gay story and make it into a movie. And invested in the movie.” – Dan Bucatinsky [05:35]

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2. Love, Closet, & Coming Out in Hollywood

[06:47-11:09]

• Dan shares the secrecy surrounding his early relationship with Don Roos, including hilarious subterfuge to avoid being outed (like hiding behind parked cars to avoid being seen rug shopping as a couple).
• He describes the era’s paranoia about being identified as gay in Hollywood and its cost to authenticity as a performer.

“But I realized, it took me years to realize that by pretending to be a person who was pretending to be another person, it was one extra layer that just did not ever connect me to material.” – Dan [10:07]

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3. Public vs Private Self – The Long Road to Authenticity

[11:09-13:00]

• Dan discusses the “kicking and screaming” process of being more openly gay, including an anecdote about declining a star-studded dinner out of paranoia it would out him.
• His journey toward self-acceptance in public is depicted as gradual and ongoing.

“I'm hoping that by Friday ... I can sort of be my authentic self in public.” – Dan [11:11]

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4. Owning the Narrative – From All Over the Guy to Fatherhood

[19:46-22:17]

• Dan describes how he hesitated to discuss the autobiographical nature of All Over the Guy, despite starring and writing it.
• The turning point came after attending LGBTQ+ film festivals, realizing the power in living one’s truth.
• Becoming a vocal advocate as a gay dad, writing for Out and The Advocate, and adopting children deepened his self-acceptance and empowered his art.

“Nothing was more cathartic than being 100% honest.” – Dan [21:26]

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5. Connection, Honesty, & Getting to Shonda Rhimes

[22:17-23:23]

• Dan’s honesty about his experience as a gay dad led to a connection with Shonda Rhimes, who later would include his identity as part of his Scandal character.
• He notes that key professional successes—like his Emmy-winning turn on Scandal—arrived after age 40, and attributes this partly to embracing his real identity.

“The kind of success I wished I could have when I got here at 27 happened for me at 47.” – Dan [23:00]

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6. Aging, Skincare, and Pressures in the Entertainment Industry

[24:33-28:08]

• Both Jesse and Dan reflect on entering fatherhood later in life and the increasingly youth-centric standards of Hollywood.
• Dan openly discusses his cosmetic surgery (eyelid procedure) and the impact of on-screen aging.
• They swap tips on personal grooming and the inevitability of seeing oneself on camera (“your house is all mirrors!”).

“I started noticing [bags under my eyes] ... I looked like my dad did 30 years later. ... I’m a big proponent of doing whatever you want to do to make yourself feel better.” – Dan [25:45-27:04]

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7. The Evolution (and Relevance) of The Comeback

[31:24-35:33]

• Dan details the unusual, decade-spanning release schedule of HBO’s The Comeback, and the accidental brilliance of revisiting the same characters every 10 years, creating a unique commentary on relevance and aging in showbiz.
• Jesse points out how this structure lets the series deepen with time and reflect changes in the industry.

“The show would have been a completely different show if we had done seasons consecutively ... but what you’re saying is exactly right. By accident and not by design, we have had the good fortune ... to do a season about how reality TV impacted relevance [then] and now ... 10 years later.” – Dan [33:11]

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8. Creative Collaboration with Lisa Kudrow

[35:33-39:41]

• Their partnership began after both went to Vassar College (unbeknownst to each other at the time), later meeting on the set of The Opposite of Sex.
• Despite agent resistance, they formed a creative company together, resulting in innovative projects like Web Therapy and Who Do You Think You Are?

“She wanted to produce and she didn’t want to partner [with a studio exec] ... she was like, no, I’d love to partner with Dan, who's also an actor and writer ... and the agents were like, ‘You’re making a big mistake.’ And so we did it anyway.” – Dan [38:21]

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9. What-Might-Have-Beens: Almost-Misses & Emmy Moments

[39:41-46:44]

• Dan reveals he auditioned for roles on Modern Family (as both Mitch and Cam), Will & Grace (as Jack), and even Friends (as Chandler)—but ultimately found his own, later path to prominence.
• Hilarious story on how he learned of his first Emmy nomination—by thinking his prankster friend Josh Malina was joking.

"So on the morning of the Emmy nominations...I noticed on Twitter...Josh Malina tweeted out...something about an Emmy nomination. And I was like, oh, what a jerk. Like, why would you tease someone that way?" – Dan [43:12]

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10. Facing Fear, Taking Risks, and Being Open to the Next Chapter

[46:46-48:31]

• Dan speaks about the importance of embracing what scares you as the potential path to growth, noting he might return to theater — but “writing a play is so intimidating.”
• The conversation closes with relatable, comic riffs on foods (like oysters) that “nature is telling you not to eat.”

“If something from the world of nature is letting you know ‘this is not for you’—it’s impossible to open, there’s 4,000 locks...that just goes against all logic.” – Dan [47:44]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On self-acceptance in career:
  “The more specific to your true self that you can be when you have to take on anything, the better it’s going to be.” – Dan [10:33]
• On embracing parenting and visibility:
  “Being a gay dad was something I was very vocal about ... I was on the early side.” – Dan [22:01]
• On creative tenacity:
  “I can squeeze as many possible things, including an ice show maybe, out of the same material.” – Dan [05:35]

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Funniest Moments

• The Salad Mishap: Dan tries to toss his burrata and arugula salad for the cameras, but accidentally spills it, leading to a burst of laughter and impromptu “table toss” demonstration. [23:31-24:18]
• Oysters as Danger Food: Dan argues at length that oysters shouldn’t be eaten because of nature’s “very obvious warning signs.” [47:33-48:16]
• Nearly Famous in All the Wrong Shows: Dan lists (with self-deprecating humor) all the iconic roles he almost landed—from Will & Grace to Friends—adding hilarious color to his journey toward success. [39:52-42:49]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:03:00: Start of conversation, Louise’s memories, early LA days
• 00:06:47: Coming out, first loves, closet stories
• 00:19:46: All Over the Guy, letting down the walls, LGBTQ+ film circuit
• 00:22:17: Shonda Rhimes connection, impact of being a gay dad
• 00:24:33: Aging, cosmetic surgery, Hollywood pressures
• 00:31:24: The Comeback’s unique evolution
• 00:35:33: Partnership with Lisa Kudrow
• 00:39:41: Auditioning for iconic gay TV roles
• 00:43:12: Emmy nomination prank story
• 00:46:46: Risk-taking, theater dreams, fears & foods that scare you
• 00:48:31: Episode wrap-up

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Tone & Takeaway

The episode is warm, humorous, and genuinely vulnerable—balancing showbiz anecdotes and industry insights with personal growth and comedy. Both Jesse and Dan offer listeners an honest look at the complexities of building—and owning—a creative, authentic life, regardless of how late success comes.

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Listen If You…

• Are interested in LGBTQ+ history in Hollywood
• Love showbiz behind-the-scenes tales, including iconic near misses
• Want a heartening, real take on aging and reinvention
• Enjoy stories of enduring friendship and creative risk

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“It was a delicious dinner. And you know what? This Dinner’s on Me.” – Jesse Tyler Ferguson [48:38]

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Dan Bucatinsky]

Hey, it's Jesse today on the show. You know him from hacks the Comeback scandal. It's Dan Bukatensky.

I'm hoping that by Friday. What's today? Monday. I'm hoping that by Friday I can sort of be my authentic self in public.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is Dinner's on Me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

So today we're at Louise's Tattoria in Largechmont in Los Angeles. Louise's have been around since 1978 and they are certainly an LA staple. I personally love their minestrone soup. They also have gluten free pasta and pizza. And my friend Dan Bukatinsky happens to be gluten free. So I thought this might be a perfect place to bring him. It's also a place that I feel his character Billy from the Comeback might come to, you know, secure a magazine deal for Valerie Cherish. So. All right, let's get to the conversation doing.

I haven't been to Louise's in. In a million years. It used to be my. What, you've never been here?

No, I think this might be my first time here.

How long have you lived in Los Angeles?

Too long to not have come here before.

I know, yeah, Louise's was like a staple. Cuz I worked at the Cannon Theater in Beverly Hills when I first got here to la and there was a Louise's in Beverly Hills and we would just always go there.

What's the Canon Theater like a movie now?

No, the Cannon Theater was a theater. It's where Love Letters was. It's where Forever Plaid was. The amazing thing about the women who ran that theater is they would let us use the theater on Mondays to showcase our talents.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

So I wrote a. I'd come to LA with a this is more than you need to know. But I'd written, no, I need to know all this. I'd written a sketch show, a two person sketch show in New York that I was performing in the duplex. And then I had this opportunity to meet to do it three Thursdays, three Thursdays through Saturdays at a Santa Monica club. And so I flew to la. I put on the show at this Santa Monica club. And then I thought, LA is kind of cool. We should give it a shot. So I got a job at the Cannon. They let me do that same show on Mondays on the set. I didn't really start doing it regularly until Forever Plaid was there. So I was doing my little sketch show on the set of Forever Plaid. I love that. Which had no bearing on my play, but it didn't matter.

Right, right, right. That is incredible. And you, I know you, you, you wrote a play that you later turned into a movie that, you know, you had made.

The basics. I mean, this is how much I can squeeze as many possible things, including an ice show maybe out of the same material. There was like four sketches in my sketch show that became the play that I put on at the Tiffany Theater in West Hollywood, which isn't there anymore either. And that became the movie all over the Guy, which I then was in. And that. That sort of launched everything, but all. All of it. And the woman who produced that little play. Yeah, that. The. And told me to turn it into a gay story and make it into a movie. And invested in the movie was the woman who ran the. The Canon Theater.

No way.

So that relationship at this point.

No, no.

So in. So in. So in, so in, I met Don. And Don and I were dating my husband, Don of Don Roos, screenwriter and director, and my husband for more years, most importantly, your husband, more years than I care to admit. He. He met me while I was working at the Cannon Theater. He would come, he would. He and I would go have dinner during the. During the show and I would come back afterwards to sell pencils and cassettes for the. For Forever Plat.

That's so romantic.

Is it?

I think so. And so you weren't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You were. Were you dating him or you were.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

When you said you weren't out, we were very in. Were you out to yourself?

Yeah.

Okay.

I was out to myself.

And you were interested in.

No, I was in. When I met Don says. When I met Don, I was in a love affair. An absolute head over heels love affairs with another guy who was working as the general manager of Forever Plat.

And then he's like, yeah, I'm dating the merch guy.

Yeah, totally. No, it was totally top secret because he had. He had a long term person in his life. So I was the other man. And I couldn't understand how one person could love two people. I was like, you clearly have to leave this person. I can't, I can't. You can't feel this way about me and I feel this way about you and you still still have somebody else. Like, I couldn't wrap my brain around it. And he was like, I believe I can love two people at the same time. And I was like. And then he went. He got a job. Interestingly enough, he got a job on the national tour of Cats as the manager. As a general manager. So he left town. And I said, you're leaving town? Don't call me. It's too painful. Don't ever call me. Don't ever reach out to me. I need to mourn. He left town. I'm not kidding you. He left town, like, on October 8th. Let's say I met Don on October 23rd.

Oh, my God.

And Don was like, you are not interested, so let's not do this. And I don't know. We kept talking on the phone over and over and over and over and over.

He was wooing you?

He was wooing me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Did you have a coming out process while you were dating Don?

No, I came out to my family and to myself, like, two years earlier. Okay. But only two years earlier. The business to me was like, oh, my God, Nobody can know. Because at that time.

Well, at that time, really, truly, it

was like if they saw you as gay, you just would not, you know, God forbid.

And you were trying to break in.

I was trying to break in. And then Don and I were dating for several years, and I was keeping it. I was really not being very out about it for an embarrassingly long amount of time. I'm going to say six or seven years.

Really? That's a long time.

One time, we were moving in. We were moving in together finally. And we were. We were area rug shopping together, you know, as bros do.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And we were in one of those shops, and Meg Lieberman, the. The acclaimed legendary casting director, she saw me and she's like, hi, Danny. And I was like, hi. I waved, and I ran around the corner, and I called and I said to Don, I go, you. I can't be in there with you. I cannot be in there with you. So I'm gonna hide behind this parked car. And she won't see that I was with you. And so I hid behind a parked car as though she didn't see us. As though she didn't think that two straight bros spend their Sunday afternoon rug shopping. Like, I was so lame at how much I thought I was getting away with it. And years later, Meg, she cast the first season of the Comeback. Yes. And so she and I laughed about that story many a time.

She remembers that.

Yeah. She was like, I love how you thought that you were gonna pull the bull over my eyes. I mean, she completely busted me in her head.

Oh my God.

And she didn't care. That's the thing. Like we cared way more than the world did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

But we, you know, who knew? And I was not working very much. I was getting little tiny bit rolls. But I realized, it took me years to realize that by pretending to be a person who was pretending to be another person, it was one extra layer that just did not ever connect me to material. And I think people were like, yeah, okay, he's, you know, I was unspecific.

Right, right, right.

And that's such. I always tell actors this, like young actors, like whether you want to be out or not is a decision you have to make. But the more specific to your true self that you can be when you have to take on anything, the better it's going to be. It took me a long time to learn that lesson. But anyway, blah, blah, blah.

Did you feel like, what did you feel like was the, the moment for you when you didn't have to worry about that anymore? Like you could just be a working actor who didn't, wasn't concerned about that?

You know, that's a good question. I don't think.

Have you partner yet?

I'm hoping that by Friday. I'm hoping that by Friday. What'd you say? Monday? I'm hoping that by Friday I can sort of be my authentic self in public. No, I, I, you know what? I was kicking and screaming a little bit. I think I was really scared. And Don was like, you know, we would, oh my God. There's other thing happening. When I first met Don, the premiere of a movie he had made called Love Field, starring Michelle Pfeiffer, for which she was nominated for an Oscar, was. There was a premiere of that in Westwood and Don and I were only not even a year together. And he was like, you want to come with me to this? We're going to go to the premiere, but we're not going to watch the movie. We're going to go to dinner with Michelle Pfeiffer. And she at that time was dating her brand new boyfriend, David E. Kelly of Ally McBeal and many other show fame.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And I was like, I can't, I can't be seen in public with you at a dinner with Michelle Pfeiffer. What if I ever work with her? And Tom was like, she's met, she's a movie star. She's met some gays before. Yeah, yeah, but not on camera. Like that could ruin my career. God, Must have had to bite his lip to keep from laughing. He was like, well, you can come. I have a feeling you're gonna be okay. Yeah, I was a wreck. And we went to the dinner and I don't think anybody knew I was even there, which was fine with me. But I was invisible at the dinner, which was perfect. And Michelle was gorgeous. Yeah. And. But I remember that feeling of like, oh, I better not even be seen in public with you at a Hollywood thing because I have my whole career ahead of me. Like, what if? What if what? You know, I can't even connect to even what that thought was. Now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Dan Bucatinsky]

Hi, how are you?

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Hi yourself.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Good taking care of you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Thank you so much.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Joel, if you have any question about the menu, just let me know.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Oh, great. Could I get an iced tea?

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Sounds refreshing.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Well, you tell me.

Well, hopefully.

And I'm gluten free. Oh, you have gluten free pasta available. That's such good news. Thank you.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Spent you a couple minutes?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I could.

I mean, I. I think I know what I want. I'm gonna go really super simple.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I'm just getting a minestrone soup.

Sounds good. I'm gonna order a couple of things because I haven't eaten since about an hour ago. No, no, the 80s. Can I start with. Wait, let's. I'm looking to see what has the GF little logo on it. Right. Well, I'd love some burrata and arugula.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Sounds pretty good.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Okay, and then I'll. And then should I order the other thing now, too? Order.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

No, no.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yes. All right. Thank you.

Do you want a pasta that's gluten free pasta?

Yeah, they have. Do you know what form the gluten free pasta is?

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

It's penne.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

It's penne. Yeah. You can use any.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Any type of.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Any of your sauces. That's exciting. Okay.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

I can offer the pappardelli. Me. And sausage is really tasty and creamy, and that goes perfect with the gluten free option.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Wait, tell me what that is. The pappardelli with Italian sausage. But you said it's creamy. I don't like a cream sauce, but that sounds delicious. Can they make that same thing, but no cream?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

For sure.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

All right. That's what I want with gluten free pot. That sounds delicious. With. With no cream. And. And I'm getting a little bra salad too, and that sounds. That's perfect.

Could I get a sparkling water, please? Thank you.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

You want to do a small or large bottle?

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Small is fine. Thank you.

[Joel (Restaurant Staff)]

Sounds great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Well, I'm thrilled. I haven't been here in a million years, and I love it. But this is just an example of how powerful a closet is. I was. I made that movie all over the Guy, which was a love story. I starred in it. I wrote it. It was. Much of it was autobiographical, and I refused to talk about how autobiographical it was to the press. I was like, well, the Writer. The writer is out, but the actor isn't out. I was like, and I'm. I'm a college educated individual. Like, when I'm saying it now, I'm like, what kind of dumbass did I actually think I could get away with talking about sort of the. The autobiographical tones of my script? But the actor, I don't need. It's none of your business who I sleep with. I think after my movie came out, I was like, oh, we're in every gay and lesbian film festival in the country. Every single one of them. And I went to every single one of them, and I was like, this is a crazy opportunity. This is a crazy opportunity to tell the story, be the story, live the story. And so for the years after that, and for the couple of years after that, as I started writing more, I started letting my guard down in a much bigger way.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And then, you know, then having a kid. I mean, the movie came out in 2001, I had my daughter in 2005, and my son in 2007 wrote a book about it in 2010. So that was 10 years from the movie to having two kids and writing about it. I. I've never been more exposed. But nothing was more cathartic than being 100% honest.

Yes.

And it took me a long time.

On your terms.

Yeah. Yes. You know, with.

I wrote it in ways that you wanted to share.

In ways that I wanted to share, but it took me a long time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I mean, do you feel like for you, having kids was. Bathroom at court cracked into like a. More that sort of blurred the lines between your private life and your work and.

Yeah, well, it did. Let's see. It did a little bit because I wrote. Because I wrote about it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And then being a gay dad was something I was very vocal about and parenting in general. And I was writing articles in out magazine magazine and the Advocate. It was fairly not brand new, but I was on the early side.

Yeah, you are.

So I was sort of on this. I was on this daddy kick. It became a big piece of my identity. And. And. And I have to say that because of that, weirdly enough, because of that honesty, because of owning that, because of talking about it, I connected to Shonda Rhimes because I adopted my kids and. And she adopted her kids, and I wanted that. It's not an accident. I mean, it was very good luck. But it wasn't just luck that landed me on Scandal because she and I had a relationship. She wanted to see there be a writer, gay dad on that show in some way. And she worked it into the show.

Yeah.

But I came to LA at age 27 and I wound up. And really just because of the success of Scandal, I had no control over that. But the crazy success of that show was 20 years after I came to LA. So the kind of success I wished I could have when I got here at 27 happened for me at 47.

So in a, in a time when you are more comfortable with who you are.

Totally. Thank you so much. I am.

[Sabrina Corrine]

Wow.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Burrata and arugula, come on. That's a beautiful, crazy combination. Can I show this to all cameras?

Oh my God.

I can't believe.

This is the funniest thing that has ever happened. Let me take it out.

Oh my God. It's all good. I wanted to toss it anyway. I was just trying to toss it.

By far my favorite thing that's happened.

You know I'm a TV producer also. Right. I was trying to. To help the camera angle.

Oh my God, that was so funny.

It was perfect. Cuz I got to toss it. Which was really what my intention was.

That was my intention. I like to have it when I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A table toss.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

A table. It's called a table toss.

When I say table toss out, I mean like I. I spill it onto the table, I toss it, then put

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

it back in the bowl.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Correct. It's the only way really to toss.

Oh my God, that was so good.

Oh my Lord. I can't believe that just happened. Yes I can. Because I do that all the time. Oh my God. Really good.

I cannot wait to watch that back.

I can, I can, I can wait to watch. To have you watch that back.

Oh boy.

Anyways, John and I had our kids at 40 and 50 and we had been together for 12 years already. So we had done a lot. He had made a bunch of movies. I was already work on my path, at least career wise. Yeah. And we were on the older side.

Yeah.

But certainly nowadays when so many young gays are wanting to get married at 28, 29, 30, 31, like they're just doing it all earlier.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Don was really worried about being a dad at 50.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And now understand I have a daughter who's 20. Yeah. And my son's 18. And I certainly hope that we're empty nesters at the. At some point.

You both look great, by the way. I mean, when you told me you just turned 60, I was like, I did not believe you, Don. Just not like his age. You all look great.

Well, we're hanging on by a Thread.

But that's one thing about the gays. We know how to take care of ourselves. We know a good skincare routine.

Yes.

We know we need to plunge our face into an ice water bath every

once in a while. I, I absolutely am going to start doing that. Are you to going, kidding? It's the one thing I haven't done. And I'm going, if it was good enough for Joan Crawford, it's good enough for me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Well, I had my eyes done. My dad genetically had incredibly, incredibly pronounced bags under his eyes, as did his sister. And I started noticing mine in my late 30s. Oh. And I was doing 24. Legacy was like the reboot of 24. And the lighting on the show was, as you can imagine, not glamour, gay lighting. I was, I was at CTU with a headset and the camera was always under my chin. And I was like, guys, come on, help the, help the lady out.

Yeah.

I went to do ADR and I had an episode where I was being interrogated and I had to take my glasses off. And I took my glasses off and I couldn't believe. I couldn't believe it. When I took my glasses off, I looked like my dad did 30 years later.

[Sabrina Corrine]

Wow.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And I was like, I'm leaving here and I'm making an appointment.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Tits and ass and off. I went to, to park in 73rd. No, I went to a guy who just does eyes and he, I met with him and he said, yeah, you're, you're holding all of your age in your eyes and we'll take care of it. And they did. And it was money I ever spent. I couldn't believe it.

Desperate after.

You don't need, oh, I'll, I'll show you before and after. But you won't believe it because it was almost 10 years ago and you won't believe it. And I will let anybody who wants to look at it because I'm a big proponent of doing whatever you want to do to. Yes. Make yourself feel better more than anything else. Same. Do you think A, being gay or B, being in our business is pushing us towards these things more than we would normally?

I think being in A, for me, it's being in the business because I, I would not have cared, but I would see myself on screen. I'd be like, o, I don't like the way that's looking.

It's having to see ourselves.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I think that's what it is for me.

And I've been in your house. It's all mirrors. I don't know why you would do your entire house in mirrors. I mean, you would see yourself anyway. So I don't really know. I guess that's something that you guys like. But I find that it's not panic.

It's all just in the ceiling. Just in the ceiling.

Your house is stunning.

Thank you.

It is absolutely gorgeous.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Dan tells me about how he and his creative collaborator Lisa Kudrow narrowly missed one another in college. And he tells me about the backhanded way he learned he was an Emmy nominee. Okay, be right back. So on a recent episode, we had Ted Danson on. And if you know Ted, you know he's very passionate about protecting the oceans and buying sustainable wild caught seafood. And after talking to him, it. It really made me think, am I actually being intentional about this myself, or am I just hoping for the best at the grocery store? That's one of the reasons I Love Wild Alaskan company. I cannot recommend this company enough. First, it's 100% wild caught, never farmed. So no antibiotics, no GMOs, no additives. Second, their fish is frozen right off the boat, which helps lock in flavor and texture. And third, it's all sustainably sourced from Alaska, supporting responsible fishing practices. Lately, I've been really into their Pacific halibut. It's firm, meaty, great for searing, and the Pacific rockfish, which has this amazing, bold flavor, works beautifully in a quick pan fry. And also, there's no risk here. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund, no questions asked. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com jtf for 35 off your first box of premium wild Caught Seafood. That's wildalaskan.com JTF for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. You know Kelly Ripa. You've watched her every morning for years. I've watched her every morning for years. But now you're finally getting Kelly off camera. And as someone who has met Kelly off camera, all I can say is that version of Kelly is a delight. Kelly Ripa is launching a new podcast called let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa. I am so excited about this because this is where the filters come off each week. Kelly DY into stuff she doesn't always get to say on daytime tv. Stuff about her marriage her family, her career, and how she somehow holds it all together while living very publicly. She's joined by a rotating group of friends, people like Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson. And the conversations go everywhere. Fitness, fad, sex, aging, ambition, marriage, the chaos of life. All of it. It's funny, honest, sometimes unexpected, and very, very Kelly. So if you want real heart humor and zero small talk, check out let's talk off camera with Kelly Ripa. Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Starbucks Announcer]

Spring is here, and there's a whole new way to chai at Starbucks that's made perfect for you. Choose your sweetness. Dial it up. Or keep things light. Add a touch of pistachio, a hint of strawberry or vanilla, or make it a spring classic with lavender. Because this season, there's endless ways to chai at Starbucks.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

But no. Yeah. Having to. The self acceptance part of it is really hard for me. Yeah, I, I see things like, I. I've been watching episodes of the Comeback, which is. Which I don't know when this drops, but is imminent. Yeah, the third season.

By the time this drops, you will have premiered.

We will premiere. Well, the comeback started in 2005.

I was gonna ask you, like, going back and like, looking at yourself.

This is what I mean.

Decade increments, because.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

2005 and then 2014. Right.

And then now we're dropping into. In 2026. So 21 year difference and the same character. You know, you just have to look at the episodes and you can watch them back to back and you see a before and after.

Well, what's so great? What I kind of love about this structure. And I think it kind of, it probably happened by accident because, you know, I, as many people will also say, am a massive fan of the original season, the first season of the Comeback. And I think I was shocked, as many people were, that it was. Was not renewed for more seasons. And I think, you know, I think in hindsight, we can all recognize that it might have been a little bit

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

ahead of its time.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And, you know, I, I don't know. There are probably other reasons why it didn't get picked up for another season, but the structure that we've now found ourselves in, where we check in on these characters every 10 years is kind of genius because it's these people who are navigating where the industry is at this moment and trying to figure out how to stay relevant, which is very relatable. Maybe more so. Had we just had like a five season run of the show initially.

You're taking that takes 1000% exactly right. I mean, literally, almost verbatim, when I talk about the show. You are hitting on exactly what is. What is this interesting thing? Listen, I'm not one of those everything happens for a reason people. I'm not manifest all that stuff. I find all of it really tiresome. But when I look, what you said is so true. The show would have been a completely different show if we had done seasons consecutively for five years and just Valerie and a lot of different, really funny, interesting, maybe sometimes embarrassing situations and victories and all that. They would have been smaller stories. Valerie loses her keys. By the way, I would love to watch Valerie. The thing I love about Valerie Church is I would watch her do anything. But what you're saying is exactly right. By accident and not by design. We have had the good fortune in a way to not be able to make consecutive episodes. So we. To do a season that was about the way reality television impacted, threatened, maybe even helped some people who were looking for relevance back in 2005, what it was doing to writers in particular, and then come back 10 years later and talk about not quite streaming, but premium cable. And the sitcoms were starting to fall away and the dark comedy was becoming the most important thing. And how this woman was going to navigate relevance in that world.

Yeah.

And now 10 years later, what can we talk about 10 years later that is both possibly a threat or an inevitability in our business. And how does that impact this one, these characters, but particularly this one character who all she wants is to keep working relevance, having fun and be relevant. And the show, oddly enough, continues to have relevance because we check in every 10 years. This is definitely the final season. And it's really.

How can you say that, though?

Because it's called the final season, so. Well, I'm very close with the creators of that series, considering I produced it too. And I can. I can let you know this is the final season.

Okay. Okay. I've done two projects with you that you've created with Lisa Kudrow. I did Web Therapy.

Yep.

Which was a dream because you were so funny. To include myself on a cast, a guest cast list that has some of probably the greatest TV cameos of all time.

Meryl Streep.

Including Meryl Streep was just a huge honor. So Web Therapy and then who do youo Think youk Are? Which is a reality show. The. That you and Lisa create and produce about finding your roots. You and Lisa have known each other for a very, very long time.

Yes.

How did you two meet initially?

Well, we met really truly for the first time on the set of my husband's movie, the Opposite of Sex.

Yeah, Great film.

In 1997. But Lisa and I went to college and at the same place and overlapped by two years.

Oh, no way.

A tiny college named Vassar College. And she was pre med and always in the chemistry building. And I was everything but pre med. In fact, my only brush with the chemistry building where she spent every minute of her time was I had joined a modern dance troupe that did an interpretive dance piece on the steps of the chemistry building called Lost Angels. It was about la. And we would this very loud song we would rehearse on the steps of the chemistry building all the time. And Lisa remembers those fucking dramaramas dancing when she was trying to study. And I was like, that was me.

That's incredible.

So that fact that our experience at a very small college was so different that we didn't, we just didn't run into each other. We had some mutual friends, right. And as the years have passed, we've have some alum friends that, that, that are the same. But we didn't meet up at Vassar subsequent to our meeting and becoming friends. We've gone back a few times.

So you really don't even remember seeing her in college?

Nope, I don't remember. I don't ever remember laying eyes on her. And I did a play at Vassar called the man in the Glass Booth. And Lisa always talks about remembering people talking about the play in a positive way, which was nice. And she was thinking, she remembers feeling like, I can't believe I missed that play. And I was like, had you seen the play, we would have laid eyes on each other for the first time.

This all could have started way earlier.

It could have started way earlier. But I really credit my husband with meeting Lisa.

Did you have hesitations about getting into business with a friend and like what that was going to be or.

Yes. And our representatives were really not supportive of it. Oh, interesting. They really did not want Lisa to like hitch her wagon. What happened is I made this movie all over the guy, which was this little gay romcom after Donald, after the Opposite of Sex. And so I knew Lisa and she did a cameo in my movie. And right about a year and a half later, I had made that movie. I was writing television pilots. Lisa and a lot of the friends were offered by Warner Brothers what they used to call vanity deals, you know, we'll give you an office and a production budget. And yeah, people like Jesse Tyler Ferguson and by the way, they're called vanity deals, but what you make of them is what you make of that. And Lisa wanted to produce and she didn't want to partner. Her agent was trying to match her up with a development executive from a studio or an ex agent. And she was like, no, I'd love to partner with Dan, who's also an actor and a writer and produced his own movie. Like, we can make things together as two creative artists. And the agents are like, you're making a big mistake. And my agent was like, you're making a big mistake. You're just starting your career. You don't wanna. And so we did it anyway.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. That looks great. Wait a minute. I wanted to ask you something. Did you know that I had auditioned to play Mitch and Cam?

I did not know that.

Yeah. And I auditioned to play Will. I was gonna say. And Grace. I got so close. I tested opposite Debra Messing for Grace. No, I auditioned for Jack and I. Like I was destined to not be a famous gay on tv.

Well, it happened later.

It happened later. But. But in a different way to an

Emmy Award winning performance.

Might I have. God bless you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm waiting.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

You auditioned for Mitch and Cam? Yeah, they brought me in for Mitch. And I remember that audition really well because Steve Levitan and Chris Lloyd. And Chris Lloyd were both in the room. And then I came back and auditioned for Cam. And it wasn't meant to be. It was somebody else's story.

It was someone else's story.

Yours. And you can't imagine it being anybody but you. You cannot imagine.

That's how those things always work out.

It's so iconic. It's. So you're now like the touchstone of a. A gay couple on TV having a baby from. From minute one, which was so. I also read that pilot and was so infuriated that I didn't think of it. I loved that pilot. The pilot was great. With every fiber of my being. The notion of meeting three families and not knowing how they connected to the last scene gives me goosebumps.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's the thing that's.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

That's tricky now because the show is part of the zeitgeist. And like, everyone just knows that that's one big new, like, one big family. And you know what I keep forgetting sometimes is that because I remember when

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I first read it, I didn't know.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I was like, we're following these Three families. I don't know how. Why are we following these three random families?

How are we going to connect?

And then in that last scene, you realize they're all related to one another. And that's just something that people forget because we know the show so well now.

Wanted to check in, see how, how we're doing with lunch.

So great.

So good.

Thank you.

Yes. Are you Louise? Yeah, no, Louise. I know. I remember Paul. This is my family spot. Thank you. Well, it's delicious, of course. Thank you for having gluten free pasta and pizza too. Oh, you do? Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Incredible.

I didn't know that. That's awesome. So good. Yes. Yeah, totally. Thank you.

Thank you, thank you. I, I feel like I remember you saying that, like you felt like your Emmy nomination was a joke at first.

Oh, yeah, Because. Because of Josh Molina.

Wait, explain that to me. I don't think I know this Josh

Molina, who people will remember from the West Wing and was on Scandal as David Rosen.

Right, right, right.

Another part I didn't get.

Oh, my God. The roles in your.

The role's in my way. But listen, I'm happy with the way things turned out, even though I could have been Chandler on Friends. Another one, Another one. Can you believe that? I just found the sides in my file cabinet the other day. Isn't that crazy?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's crazy.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Anyway, Josh Moline is a famous prankster. I mean, he will pull pranks. That's all he does on set. He makes people's lives miserable and he loves it. I mean, he is a self proclaimed sociopath in that he just enjoys the chaos. Coming up with a way to like torture you on set.

Yeah.

And so that was always his thing. It was always his shtick. And he did it to me a lot. And so on the morning of the Emmy nominations, I don't know if I was even aware that they were being. For whatever reason, I didn't quite think it was possible. I wasn't that keyed up about it. I certainly. It was a. It was a pipe dream. I certainly thought it would be amazing. But the competition was fierce and it was in the guest star category, which is a much bigger category.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Drama.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Madman was madman.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Mad Men.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Two people from Mad Men were nominated. Two people from Game of Thrones. I mean, we're up against all these cable shows. It just didn't seem possible. And I would. So I wasn't really that keyed into it, but I was certainly. I just didn't know that at what time they were going to announce them. And so I got up to go to the bathroom at five o' clock in the morning or six in the morning or whatever it was. And I noticed on Twitter at that time, there was no Instagram. It was just Twitter. Josh Molina tweeted out, yeah. And Dan Bukatinsky pulls off in a snarky way. He said something about an Emmy nomination. And I was like, oh, what a jerk. Like, why would you tease someone that way? And then I was like, wait, is he teasing? It is this morning. Then I ran to the TV and I tried to turn it on to see if there was any. They're not gonna list that category. Guess Star doesn't get listed on television.

Right. It's not a headline.

And. And so I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it. And I was like, don, wake up.

No one was calling you?

No, nobody called me. Not yet. Not yet. Half an hour later I got a call. I got a bunch of calls half an hour later. And I was blown away. I was so unbelievably thrown and honored and thrilled. And I will say, like, it was great to win, but I have to say that. That people say that this all the time. I will never experience. I think being nominated is. Is unbelievably thrilling. It's just thrilling. To win is like winning lotto in a way. It's like, oh, you were in a sweepstakes and you won the sweepstakes. But like, this felt huge. And Josh, I was not kidding at this one time. He was not joking, but I thought he was teasing me. I thought he was like ribbing me because it didn't happen. Yeah. So that was a thrill that I'll never forget. And. And yeah, well, you know, these things you can't predict. I could never have predicted that

right before the Tony nominations came out. The year I was lucky enough to get nominated on the. The day before the timeout New York. So the Akron from Time on New York magazine is T O N Y. They published their Tony Awards and so I was included on that list. And did you get a flood of congratulations?

Because people didn't know.

And they didn't know. And then I was like confused because they were. Said it did say Tony.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then like.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

And like the kind. It was like copyright or like the all R or whatever, like in the circle.

Not the. Not the real Tony.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Not the real one.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yeah.

There's quote mark around it and like, I don't know. I was confused. I was really confused for a good like 20 minutes. Ended up getting a nomination.

Yes. You did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And winning.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Yes, you did. But that's not well deserved. That's why we're here. Well deserved. Well deserved. I mean, theater is your home and first love, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Do you think.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

Do you think you would ever want to go back into that world? Like writing plays, doing beyond stage?

I don't know about writing play. That's so intimidating. I mean, I did it. I've done it, and I just. I can't imagine doing it again. Maybe. Maybe that's. Maybe that's the trigger you need to go and do it. The things that make us afraid are the things that we need to jump into. That's my new path, by the way. I'm all about talking about how fear stops us from success.

Something scares me. I'm like, that's probably what I should be doing.

Right? That's right. And. And yet. And yet sometimes it really. Some things are really scary. Right. I don't particularly want to eat an oyster or do mushrooms or jump off a building or jump out of an airplane.

Right.

There's some things that are. We're fine to not do.

I like that eating an oyster was included in that.

Yeah. I find it scary. Yeah. I mean, what's in there? It doesn't feel like it was meant to be eaten. That's how I feel.

You're not wrong.

I feel like it's. Let me explain something to you. If something from nature, the world of nature is letting you know this is not for you. And how do you know it's impossible to open. It's impossible to open. There's like 4,000 locks. Do not open this. And we're like, no, guess what? I'm gonna open it. I'm gonna jam my fingers and stab my hands to get this thing open. And then I'm gonna eat it. It's like that's. This just goes against all logic.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're not.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

You're not wrong.

I'm not wrong. So I. There must be something about it that's like, not meant to be eaten. Listen, but I'd like to get it.

I'm not wrong, but I do.

You love an oyster.

I seem like an oyster.

You see? Yeah. It's like I'm missing out on something. I gotta try it.

I don't know if you are. Thank you for doing this with me.

Thank you for. Thank you for lunch. It was delicious.

You're very welcome.

It was a delicious dinner.

It was a dinner. And you know what? This dinner's on me.

Are you serious?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is.

[Dan Bucatinsky]

I was Just about to Venmo you.

No, you do not need to, because Dinner's on Me.

Well, thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Louise's Tattoo in Larchmont Village in Los Angeles, California. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know her from the movie, musical version of Mean Girls and no Way Home. She's now starring in the gripping Apple TV series the Last Thing He Told Me. It's Angouri Rice. We'll talk about what it was like working alongside Jennifer Gardner and how growing up in the industry shaped the kinds of roles she's drawn to today. Plus, we get into her podcast and why storytelling has become such an important creative outlet. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, but you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale, she composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

[Sabrina Corrine]

Sabrina Corrine I have been listening to a new show from the binge called Fatal Fantasy. I am obsessed. Oh my. I need to know more. Tell me. Tell me everything. I will. It's very shocking. It's this like ultra weird crime story of a murder for hire plot that. Yeah, wait for it. Leverage the dynamics of the underworld and underworld being a medieval fantasy game. Wait, so it's live action role playing gone wrong? Horribly wrong. And you can binge all episodes now? Oh my God, that sounds so good. I know what I'm doing on my drive home today. Search for Fatal Fantasy and subscribe to the binge podcast channel on Apple podcasts [e-mail] and then once you're done, you can listen to one of the over 60 true crime and investigative podcasts a part of the channel while you wait for the next month's drop. I really need to know what happens. Selfishly you do, so that we can talk about it. So whenever you listen. Search for Fatal Fantasy and hit. Subscribe to the binge to get all episodes all at once ad free.