Jackie Tohn — on ‘GLOW,’ ‘Nobody Wants This,’ and trusting the timing of it all

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode: Jackie Tohn — on ‘GLOW,’ ‘Nobody Wants This,’ and Trusting the Timing of It All
Date: October 21, 2025
Location: Maciel's Plant-Based Butcher and Deli, Highland Park, LA

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Episode Overview

Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down for a lively, heartfelt dinner with his longtime friend, actress and singer Jackie Tohn. The conversation journeys through Jackie’s winding career — from near-miss TV breaks and American Idol heartbreak to her breakout success on GLOW and the new Netflix series Nobody Wants This. Throughout, they find humor and vulnerability in stories of perseverance, rejection, friendship, and the importance of trusting the timing of one’s life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jackie's Career: The Long Road to “Breakout”

• Early Ambitions & Development Deals
  • Jackie started in entertainment at 9, hustling through auditions, stand-up, and music (10:40).
  • She recounts early “almosts,” like being given a Nickelodeon spinoff (“Now This”) which never got picked up, then watching friends rise while she waited for her break (16:31, 17:33).
  • Quote:
    Jackie: “So then Nickelodeon was like, oh, she’s a funny teenager...They gave me my own spinoff...except then our show didn’t get picked up, and now I didn’t have my show or All That.” (16:31)
• The Highs and Lows of “Almost” Making It
  • Jackie reflects on the mental toll of being “the commodity” for Hollywood execs and the whiplash of offers, then silence (19:59).
  • She describes years of being paid for development deals that never translated to onscreen work, and how that messes with your sense of worth.

2. American Idol: Public Success, Private Pain

• Jackie recounts being the “grandma” contestant at age 28—just shy of being outside the age range (02:55, 21:15).
• She candidly shares the harsh reality of elimination:
  “You’re ushered off the stage. You don’t get to say goodbye...A letter under your door tells you where to go...They give you an opportunity to talk to a psychiatrist, and then you’re in a shuttle on the way home.” (19:59)
• Paula Abdul’s public endorsement of Jackie (23:12)—and the pain of being sent home immediately after.
  “Paula Abdul was on Jay Leno...and she was like, I love that Jackie Tohn...and then I went home immediately.” (23:12)

3. Friendships and Timing: Kristen Bell & “Nobody Wants This”

• Jackie and Kristen Bell became friends in 2003, before their big breaks (25:07).
• A chance near-miss accident in 2008 rekindled their friendship, a full-circle LA story (32:10).
• Jackie tells the behind-the-scenes story of landing “Esther” in Nobody Wants This — she was not handed the role but auditioned and won it on merit, with support but no guarantees from Kristen (33:25–37:58).
  “I made a tape in my kitchen with my boyfriend, sent it in...didn’t hear anything...and then a few months later everyone looked at each other and they were like, oh, yeah, that’s her.” (36:08, 37:58)

4. Reclaiming Spaces & Career Redemption

• Jackie and Jesse bond over stories of returning “victorious” to places where they previously failed — Jesse on the Modern Family set next door to a “traumatic audition room,” and Jackie at CBS Radford, where she was once fired and later returned for a table read for Nobody Wants This (39:25–42:34). “A man is paint rolling my name off my parking space...When we had our table read for season one I pull onto the lot and I’m like, oh my God, I’m reclaiming my time.” (41:34, 42:30)

5. The Reality of The Grind — and Gratitude

• Both discuss learning to celebrate career wins after years of bracing for disappointment:
  “I have to also check myself sometimes. Cause it’s like, you can’t be on a hit show for two years and then continue posting on Instagram like, somebody pinch me. It’s like, you’re doing it.” (38:06)
• Jackie credits her persistence and humor in navigating a tough industry:
  “This is better than what it was before...Going to the Emmys and having a good time and being on a really rad show with people that I love. Definitely better.” (19:11, 19:25)

6. Highlight Reels: Showbiz Fables, Fails & Favorites

• Stories of lying on resumes (“she can rollerblade, she can pogo stick”—and breaking her nose for Sesame Street& riddled with behind-the-scenes hilarity (45:03–46:44).
• Auditioning for GLOW required pretending to be athletic; the cast underwent wrestling training once hired (46:27).
• Aspirations to play Fran Drescher’s “The Nanny” if it ever comes to Broadway (47:17–47:55). “All you want to do is walk down a set of stairs in those fabulous costumes. It’s gonna be on Broadway.” (47:40)

7. Food, Friends, and Finding Your Place

• Jackie’s passion for Maciel’s plant-based deli menu; her “split-skis” approach to sampling everything (05:05).
• Jesse’s ongoing joy at seeing Jackie finally get her due — and the mutual support that’s sustained them through industry ups and downs (07:31–10:36, 48:23).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Persevering:
  “It never...it’s like, oh, this time, surely. And then not until I think, Glow...I started Glow, I was 27 years in the game.” — Jackie Tohn (11:33)

• On Letdowns in Showbiz:
  “Tell you how quickly the fruit baskets stop coming.” — Jackie Tohn (19:59)

• On Reclamation:
  “...I now am reclaiming the space...I have multiple Emmy award nominations on this huge hit show and I’m playing scenes under the window that I used to fail behind.” — Jesse Tyler Ferguson (39:25)

• On Auditioning Amongst Friends:
  “When I heard that Kristen’s best friend was sending in a tape for Esther, I was like, fucking kill me...And then we watched the tape and we were like, oh, it is her.” — Jackie Tohn on Erin Foster’s reaction (36:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [07:31] Jackie’s music roots: self-belief and hustling multiple comedy/music avenues
• [10:36] Discussing the emotional grind of “almost” making it
• [16:31] Early development deals, spinoffs that didn’t go
• [19:59] The abrupt, emotional exit from American Idol
• [23:12] Paula Abdul shouts out Jackie, Jackie is eliminated next episode
• [25:07] Early friendship with Kristen Bell before their breaks
• [32:10] Reigniting friendship with Kristen Bell after a near-accident
• [33:25] The true story of landing Esther on Nobody Wants This
• [41:34] Jackie’s CBS Radford story: being fired, then returning as a “winner”
• [45:03] Lying on resumes and breaking nose for a Sesame Street gig
• [47:17] Jackie’s dream: “The Nanny” on Broadway

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Tone & Style

The conversation is funny, self-deprecating, deeply honest, filled with both “industry tales” and real insight into the stress and struggle of creative life. Both Jackie and Jesse are warm, quick-witted, unafraid to name the messy emotions behind the journey.
Example:

• Jackie: “If I was on a date with someone and they did that, cartoon birds would come and sew my pussy closed.” (32:51)

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Conclusion

This episode is a candid, generous look into how “overnight success” really happens — through years of close calls, resilience, good friends, and the occasional plant-based deli sandwich. Jackie Tohn’s journey captures the heartbreak and humor of the industry, offering hope and plenty of laughs for anyone hustling toward their own big break. Dinners on Me is, as always, about what happens when you let the walls down over a phenomenal meal and good company.

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Next Episode Preview:
Teri Hatcher joins Jesse to discuss childhood, trying new things, and her new Desperate Housewives rewatch podcast.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Yeah, you have to be young. It's like 16 to 28. I was the grandma when I was there. I was 28 and I was like two years off from like some of the youngest kids moms. I was like, wow, look at her growing. Alison. She's really singing well, huh?

[A]

Linda this is Dinner's on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Jackie Tone is someone I have known for a very, very long time. I met her first in New York City, I think when I was doing spelling bee and she was doing a show off Broadway called Jewtopia. And we have just remained in touch over the past almost two decades. And I have been such a fan for so long. She's an incredible singer, songwriter, she's absolutely hilarious. She's someone who I've always loved and I've always wondered like when is her big break gonna happen? And I really feel like we're living in a moment where Jackie Tone is being discovered by so many people, especially with her incredible performance as Esther on Nobody Wants this. I cannot wait to sit down and catch up and have you all fall in love with my good friend Jackie Tone. Today I'm taking Jackie to one of LA's most intriguing culinary experience experiments, Maciel's plant based butcher and Deli. It's nestled in Highland Park. We're on a busy street. You can hear cars passing by as I'm waiting for Jackie. It blends Mexican flavor and deli nostalgia with full vegan craftsmanship. Think house made meats like pastrami, chorizo, turkeys, hams, cold cut classics. But they're all made from beans, tofu and carefully layered seasonings. More than just sandwiches, it's a neighborhood deli, butchered case and hangout all rolled into one. You can order a Mexican barbecue short rib sandwich, a loaded Italian or even take home plant based meats and dairy free cheeses by the pound. It feels like the perfect spot for my friend Jackie, who's a Jewish pescetarian vegan from Long island but now is calling Los Angeles home. Alright, let's get to the conversation.

[B]

You think I looked at this? You think I even took a gander at this?

[A]

Do you know what you do? You have the same thing.

[B]

I've been here. I love this place more than anything on earth.

[A]

What do you normally get.

[B]

I normally do. I've never done one of the hot sandwiches, but I normally do the colds, and I normally come with someone and we get two because they're huge. And then you do like, a split skis, where. That way you can have two sandwiches. But if there's something that you really are going to.

[A]

Which. Which sandwich would you get? If it was a cold sandwich, I mean.

[B]

Oh, there's so many goods.

[A]

What's your favorite?

[B]

Chickpea egg salad. The egg salad is togo.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. I mean, that's not. What's the soup? I have creamy potato leek soup, and you can add chickpea croutons or bacon crumble on it. See what I'm saying?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I would also say that for the.

[A]

Whole sandwich, the pesto.

[B]

The Californian are two really popular sandwiches. Yeah, the sandwiches. It's like, if you're here, you have to get.

[A]

Okay. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. This is my place. And what I love about it, too. Well, like, most of the time, I can't really get any. I get a salad and I'm like, okay, I'll eat something later. But here it's my domain, so. Ha ha, ha. Everyone, you have to eat my vegetarian cold cuts. I mean, they all sound amazing.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But you do whatever's in your heart.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna do the Californian.

[B]

You're not gonna regret it. I'm gonna do it. I'm very excited. The Italian just sounds so good to me.

[A]

I was looking at that one on the Instagram.

[B]

Well, then if we can do Splitskis and do half and half.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Great. Then I'll do the Italian. Italian, yes. Would you guys like any sides? Any salads?

[A]

I mean, you said they're better.

[B]

Try that soup.

[A]

Try the soup. Let's get the soup. Yeah, we'll try the soup.

[B]

And I'll do. What are the options? Chickpea or bacon crumbles? Yeah, you could even do both. Yeah, both, obviously.

[A]

Do you want French fries?

[B]

No, I don't need them, but would eat them with you.

[A]

Let's get some French fries.

[B]

Great. Can't wait. This rules.

[A]

I'm excited. So I was in the car coming here, and I was like, let me listen to some of Jackie's music. Because I was like, I'm just gonna remind myself, like, what it was. And I kind of, like, expected to, like, not be like, oh, yeah, I vaguely remember this. No, the minute I put on Beguiling, I, like, I remembered every single song. I was like, oh, yeah, this song, this song, this song. And I was. I mean, I was.

[B]

It doesn't not make me want to cry.

[A]

But this is the thing that I also was, like, realizing when I was listening to your early music is so much of, like, your lyrics were, like, about belief in yourself and, like, possibility, and I'm gonna be okay, and I believe in myself. And I feel like that has been the case for you because you were a hustler in a way that I was always so impressed by. And you were doing everything. You were doing comedy, you were songwriting. You were performing at Rockwell. You had your hand into so many different pots, and you're like, I'm fucking gonna do it. And it took like. I remember when you got onto American Idol, and for me, I was like, oh, I have a friend who's gonna win American Idol. Like, that's, like my belief level. Like, this is. This is. This is her time. And then it didn't happen. And I feel like as I was doing some research, and I kind of, like. Cause I didn't know a lot about your history, I was like, oh, my God. This has been a thing. This has been a thing that's happened to you a lot where you have put in so much work and it hasn't come to fruition or the seed just hasn't sprouted above the soil.

[B]

And.

[A]

And, I mean, when I started watching Glow and I saw your face on there, I was like, fuck, yes. There's Jackie Tone. Like, she's on my fucking tv. Like, this is. It's here. It's time. It's go time. Like, this is it. And when it was canceled, I was like, motherfuck. Oh, my God. And I loved Glow so much.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I love. But now, like, having this moment with. With. Nobody wants this, and so many of my friends are watching it and loving it. I watched. I was like, oh, my God, this is. This is major. And then I was just looking at your Instagram. I was like, you're on the carpet of the Emmy Awards. Like, fuck, yes. I mean, it's just been. I don't know. I'm taking a lot of. Like, there's a lot of satisfaction. I'm taking in your career, in your eyes. And I like. It feels very satisfactory to me. That's the wrong way. It feels, like, satisfying. Very satisf. Not satisfactory.

[B]

It feels very satisfying. It feels very middle of the road to me. What's interesting is I'm having an emotional reaction to everything you're saying, because I might train up, cry, but because I don't allow myself to not that I don't celebrate, because I'm trying to much more than I used to when I was younger. And I didn't celebrate anything. Cause it was just like, what's the next? What's the next? I can't celebrate. It's gonna get canceled. The thing's gonna go away. It's not gonna turn into what I think it will. But I'm like, experiencing my own career through your. I was gonna say storytelling, but that makes it sound.

[A]

Perception.

[B]

Perception. And it's like I was like listening to a story. Like I was. It was making me tear up. I was like, this all sounds amazing. And it feels like separate from me in a weird, but also obviously made me cry. So it doesn't feel separate. And it hits.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it's crazy. It's been a. It's been a no joke journey.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

No joke, Jerry. I started when I was nine.

[A]

I know, I know.

[B]

I do look back on a lot of those times and I'm like, you know, I think a lot of people go their whole lives and they never got a shot. I don't feel that way. I feel like I got a couple shots. But, like, then it still didn't. It didn't translate. It didn't. The show didn't get picked. The pilot didn't get picked up. The development deal didn't turn into anything. That showrunner believing in me and writing me something. It didn't. And so it's like, you know, obviously that's preferred to sitting there and wanting to live your dreams and twiddling your thumbs and no one seeing what you're capable of. But there is also a funny mind fucking to, like, just. It never. It's like, oh, this time, surely.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then not until I think, Glow. I started glow. I was 27 years in the game.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

I was like. Yeah, I was 30 something and I'd been just, like, hacking at it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Going on the Long island railroad with my mom to auditions. The 90s, just craziness.

[A]

Yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Jackie shares what it was like to almost land that big break for years. And the surprisingly candid thing Paula Abdul said about her during her American Idol days. Okay. Be right back. All right. The holidays are coming up, which means things are about to get crazy. Between work and family and figuring out who's bringing dessert to friendsgiving, I'm already stretched a little bit thin. So if I needed to hire someone right now, someone who could actually make my life easier, I'd go straight to Indeed Sponsored Jobs. Because hiring isn't just about filling a role, it's about finding the right person who can keep things running when life gets busy. With Indeed Sponsored jobs, you can post and instantly boost your job to reach quality candidates fast. In fact, according to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 90% more likely to report a higher than non sponsored jobs sponsored ones. And here's the best part. You only pay for results. No long term contracts, no monthly commitments. Just help when you need it most. So if you're trying to get your team ready for the holidays or the new year or really whatever, make your hiring easy and get a $75 sponsored job credit to give your post the visibility it deserves@ Indeed.com dinnersonme that's Indeed.com dinnersonme Terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the Right way with Indeed all right, here's the thing about kids. We all know it. It's gonna happen when you're a parent, but the kids grow out of their clothes constantly. So fast. I swear Becca and Sully wake up each morning an inch taller. I don't know how it happens, but it's why Macy's Big Fall Sale could not come in at a better time. Right now, kids sweatshirts and sweatpants are 40 to 60% off, which is basically my boy's uniform on the week. Weekends. It's perfect for running around and perfect for, let's be honest, spilling things in. They've also got 40 to 60% off dress up clothes for kids. I mean, the holidays are coming up. We gotta be ready for those holiday parties, those concerts, the photo shoots with the family. I don't wanna be scrambling last minute. And Abercrombie kids is 30% off as well, which means they'll actually like what I pick out for them. The big fall sale runs October 17th through the 26th. Shop macy's.com or in store. Listen, stock up now because your kids will outgrow everything by Thanksgiving anyway. I love Halloween. Give me pumpkins, costumes, a haunted house, candy corn. I want it. I'm all in for the fun kind of scary, but the real life kind. No, that's not my vibe. I recently saw a video of an arsonist trying to set a family's home on fire. It was absolutely terrifying. What stopped it was SimpliSafe. Their AI AI powered cameras stopped the threat right away, and live monitoring agents jumped in, talking to him through the system, setting off alarms, even alerting the police before the fire could spread that's what makes SimpliSafe different. See, most systems only react after someone's already inside or once a fire has spread. SimpliSafe helps stop the crime before it even starts. And for me, knowing Justin and the kids are protected when I'm away, it makes all the difference. There are no contracts, no hidden fees and monitoring starts at about a dollar a plus. There's a 60 day money back guarantee. Right now my listeners can save 50% off a new SimpliSafe system at SimpliSafe.com Jesse. That's SimpliSafe.com Jesse. There's no safe like Simplisafe. And we're back with more dinners on me. When I was hearing you talk about development deals, oh my God. Like, that's just something that I feel like is sort of a throwback now. Does it even, does it even exist anymore?

[B]

So, I mean, maybe, but not that I've heard of. Like, it used to be the thing, like let's say you were at like the Aspen Comedy Festival or jfl, like almost comedy headhunters would come from like the studios and the networks and they would like get, that's how Seinfeld, Ray Romano, Paul Reiser, Roseanne, you name it, Bret Butler, every single person that had their own comedy show, their own sitcom in the golden age, in the golden.

[A]

Age of multi camera comedy.

[B]

Correct. Those people were all not poached but like pulled from their standup and gotten a development deal and then a show was created around them. And you think about how many people in that time, the show didn't go anywhere. But that happened to me. So I was a teenage standup comic. Please, I need to go to bed. I am 45. I was, I had jokes. I went up at Gotham. My mom schlepped me into the city. And so then Nickelodeon was like, oh, she's a funny teenager. There was that show, all that. They wanted to put me on it, but instead they loved me so much, Jesse. They gave me my own spin off. And now this. All that, and now this. Except then our show didn't get picked up and now I didn't have my show or all that. And then I had to watch all the other kids on all that and be like, oh, that could have been me. But they told me they were making me my own thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So that was my first development deal. And then I had one with Danny Jacobson who created Mad about yout and show ran Roseanne. He created, he put Ryan Reynolds on the map. He did two guys and a Girl and a pizza place, I believe.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But it's always been like this. Absolutely. Oh, my God. How is that happening? While this is happening? Craziness. Oh, my God. Thank you.

[A]

Doesn't want fries first thing she wants.

[B]

No, thank you. Ew. Yuck.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

What's on here?

[A]

Mm, Those are delicious.

[B]

Now we're pretty upset. Thank you. Hold on. So. Oh, yeah, Development deals. We kind of closed that loop. There were a lot of them. They don't really happen anymore. And they were, I wouldn't say a blessing and a curse, but they were like, for years of my career, I couldn't go on auditions because I was. Somebody thought you kid.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then it didn't turn into anything. So there would be like a year and a half of that where I would just be like, this 20 year old. I mean, sounds like a dream. And it kind of is where you're like, I'm getting paid.

[A]

It's a dream. If it becomes a thing, that becomes really exciting.

[B]

But then, like, I did get paid, and then I have, like, you know, the argument could be made. I would have been going on auditions and not booking, and I wouldn't have even made money.

[A]

So you're being paid to do nothing if that was what it was.

[B]

Right. And so. But I understand, like, I really can't deliver that information. Like, it's a complaint because I see the other side way too clearly of someone being like, wow, you're 20 and you got however many grand to hopefully get a TV show. We were all getting no money to hopefully get a TV show.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I. But it's still. You look at it, and I say this a lot about, nobody wants this, and it's really low hanging, but this is better is pretty much what I say. This is better than what it was before.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Going to the Emmys and having a good time and being on a really rad show with people that I love. Definitely better.

[A]

Yeah. But also, I mean, I'm for sure better. But I'm also thinking about, you know, what it must feel like, the head of a 20 year old to have all these people who are in suits that have offices in high, shiny towers, believe in you. And then all of a sudden, it's like, you're the commodity that has to work out. They've invested in you.

[B]

Tell you how quickly the fruit baskets stop coming. It doesn't go, no one knows your name, no one knows your number. No one. That dichotomy was harder than most things, and it was never more clear than on American Idol. When we got eliminated, you're ushered off the stage. You don't get to say goodbye to anybody. You have to go into your hotel room, and then someone puts a letter under your door that tells you where to go downstairs. And they time everybody differently because they don't want you seeing or talking to anyone. They give you an opportunity to talk to a psychiatrist, and then you're in a shuttle on the way home. Wow. And you've just been in American Idol world for six months, on the phone with producers and calls and music directors and costumes, and you think your whole life is gonna be. Your dreams are finally coming true. Letter under the door. If you wanna call the psychiatrist, this is their number.

[A]

That's insane.

[B]

That's insane. If I hadn't, which is kind of so fucked up, had the childhood that I had.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I can't imagine the depression. Cause I was really depressed after American Idol.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. It's absolutely not natural. I mean, I don't. I. I'm not surprised that there was a psychiatrist on hand, especially, you know, a lot of the people in American Idol. I mean, there's an age range.

[B]

You have to be young. It's like 16 to 28.

[A]

Exactly. Yeah.

[B]

I was the grandma when I was there. I was 28.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like two years off from, like, some of the youngest kids. Moms.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I was like, wow, look at her growing. Alison. She's really singing well, huh? Linda? She really sounds good. Oh, it's my turn to go be on the show. Like, it was very. It was very mommy energy for me.

[A]

I also remember because you were on American Idol in kind of heyday. The heyday. I mean, it was like the height of the original 30.

[B]

30 million homes a week.

[A]

Yes. And it was. It was still Randy Jackson and Simon Powell and Paul Abdul. And it had been on long enough that I think people were sort of. I could see that they were messing with the formula and they did something really fucked up and weird. The year that you were on, there was 36 people that they were looking at. And instead of taking out, like 10 or 10 people, they took out basically more than half everyone to come down to a top 12, a third. And you were in that group that was. It was like mass exodus. And it just felt. I remember. Cause as someone who was watching for you, I was like, wait, no, there's a mistake. Like, give her another shot.

[B]

It's why they never did that again. I mean, we always called it a hatchet job. I mean, it was the worst. It's just not good television. Aside from how heartbreaking it was for me. We've been rooting for these people for so long, and now 24 of them are gone. In one episode, they took 36. They took 24 people away. It makes no sense. And so regardless of, again, how awful it was for me, I'm like, this was so they never did it again. They were like, whoops, this wasn't.

[A]

But you were part of that experiment.

[B]

I was part of that experiment, yeah. Which sucked because I. No way to know. But I feel like if there was a top 24 and it was a.

[A]

Normal year, I think you would have been at it.

[B]

Me too. I remember this is, like, the crazy high to low of this business. Like, Paula Abdul was on Jay Leno.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're not supposed to say, like, who of the contestants they like. And he was like, who do you love this year? And she was like, I love that Jackie tone. And he straight up said it. And then I went home immediately.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, whoa.

[A]

Yeah. If I recall correctly, you sing. Did you sing a Jason Mraz song for your auditions? Were you guys together at that point? No. What?

[B]

I just liked the song, and I always felt like, does everybody chew on the pod? Like, everyone's chewing.

[A]

Here, I'll do it with you.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[A]

No, Jackie, People just sit with the food in their mouth and dissolves.

[B]

No, I mean, like, do they chew and talk? Because there's so much break. There's so much break for, like, how much I have to eat. It just dissolves. So Jason and I, we were together from, like, 2001 to 2004.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I sang his song on Idol in 08. And what's really crazy is that it wasn't a hit song at all. I just knew it from the record.

[A]

What was the song again?

[B]

It was I'm yours.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And it became. I mean, it has nothing to do ever of all time. Has nothing to do with me, obviously, but it's not what I'm suggesting. What I'm suggesting. Yes. What I'm suggesting is the timing was just funny because I remember he called me, and it was like he was. He thanked me. He was like, that was so cool. Thank you.

[A]

Aw.

[B]

I remember thinking, like, oh, yeah, I loved him forever.

[A]

I feel like even just hearing you talk about some of these stories and, like, these development deals and how things fell into your, you know, lap at that time, like, it was people believing in you. And, like, I mean, it's interesting because now with this moment that you're having now with Nobody Wants this, you know, it's Kristen Bell is an EP on the show. She's the lead character. And I know you guys have been friends for decades, like before she ever really.

[B]

Oh, no, no. Yeah, I know her from before. Veronica Marx. Yeah, that was her real foray. She was in a play called Snow, directed by this guy, Andy Fickman, fabulous director. I was in Jootopia, directed by this fabulous guy, Andy Fickman at the Same Time in 2003. And the cast at Jutopia went to Snow and the cast of Snow and we were supporting each other's shows. And then of all of that, she and I became friends. And then. That was 22 years ago. Wow.

[A]

It's crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it's crazy.

[A]

What was.

[B]

I mean, finally. Yeah.

[A]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. After the break, Jackie tells me about how a near death experience on the streets of Los Feliz reignited her friendship with Kristen Bell and the unexpected story behind landing Esther in Nobody Wants this. Okay, be right back. Vacation season is nearly upon us and this year, you know, I'm treating myself to luxe upgrades that I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. Think lightweight loungewear that's perfect for those long haul flights or premium luggage options. The best part, all Quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quints cuts out the costs of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quints only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I just love that. I've been eyeing their expandable carry on hard shell suitcase, which comes in four sizes and a bunch of colors. It's just so nice to be able to get an extra inch of packing space in if I need it. I love options. I also just had a tab open for the Nappa leather duffel bag, which for under $200 feels like a steal. For your next trip, treat yourself to lux upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.com JTF for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com JTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com JTF you know, one of my favorite parts about this show is how much it reminds me of the little ways people show up for each other. A few years ago I was starting rehearsal for a new play. And a friend surprised me by sending money for my lunch on the first day. It was such a small gesture, but it made me feel so supported, like, hey, I've got you. That's what I love about Zelle. Whether it's a big moment or a small one, Zell makes it easy to send and receive money directly between enrolled bank accounts. So when someone you care about needs it or when you want to make a thoughtful gesture, it's right there. When accounts send money with Zell, look for Zelle in your banking app or head to Zell.com to learn more.

[B]

The detective said missing kids usually come home. What happens when they don't?

[A]

Based on a true story.

[B]

Police looking for John Gacy.

[A]

We discovered bodies. By the looks of it, they're younger men. The things he did to those kids.

[B]

He's sick. The system failed. These families.

[A]

Devil in disguise. John Wayne Gacy. Streaming now only on Peacock.

[B]

Do you know how many there are?

[A]

Up to you to find out. And we're back with more dinners on me. It's so funny because when. When I started doing this podcast. Kristen, first of all, when you have a podcast and no one's heard it, it's kind of the same as tv. No one's really gonna believe in it until they see it, right? So I was calling all my friends to just, like, do a favor and come on. And so Kristin and I. She was kind of like our second guest.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, I think so. Second or third guess.

[B]

Horrible personality.

[A]

Horrible personality.

[B]

What a drag.

[A]

Terrible conversation. But I sat with her at little Dom's, and we had a. A wonderful time. And then she was sticking around to meet with Steve Levitan, who was coming to meet with her to talk about this new show called Shih Tza Shiksa.

[B]

Shiksa.

[A]

Shiksa.

[B]

S H I K S A. Yep.

[A]

Shiksa, which was the original title. Everybody wants this.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And she was to decide if she wanted to move forward with this podcast.

[B]

I can't.

[A]

How about that?

[B]

The best.

[A]

How about that? And so, yeah, they. They. I. As I was getting up, finishing with Kristen and packing up my. My dinner's on me. Microphones. Steve was walking in, and I was like. He's like, oh, do you know Kristen? I was like, yeah. I literally just had her on my podcast.

[B]

I love that story. Yeah, I love that.

[A]

Yes. I. I was Forrest Gump. Very Forrest Gump.

[B]

All these little things are happening that you were there. I love. But I feel similarly where I'm like, you know that video Where Kristen goes on. When she was on Ellen, they played that video of her crying over the sloth. It was a piece. I was in the house and it's just a weird felt forest gumpy where it was like the world. And that video was years old when she played it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And Dax got Melon, I think was her name, the sloth, to come to the house. And me and Ryan Hanson came and we were in the living room and we were gonna surprise her with the sloth. And we were all three of us standing there, me, Ryan and an animal handler and a sloth named Melon on like a stick with some fucking sticks. And Dax goes in the room to tell her and that's when she gets hysterical and starts crying. And it just was such a funny thing. All these years later, like you're feeling like, oh my God. When she went to meet with Steve, I was there. And I'm like, when she wept about the sloth, I was there. I was there. It was weird.

[A]

It's so funny. At what point did she. Did she say I have a role in this for you and did you audition?

[B]

No, she didn't really. At what point? No point. No, not even that hard. Like basically she's my wife and we were on a hike in Griffith Park. Of course not to out her location. She lives in Griffith Park. She lives in Griffith park by the bear and funny rewind story. After Jootopia and Snow, I moved to New York to do the show. Jutopia went to New York. It's when I was running into you in the street because before you guys went to Broadway we were for spelling bee. For spelling bee. We were like right next to our theaters were right next to each other on 43rd and 9th or something. And so I finally came back to LA. This was right before American Idol. I'm dating my ex boyfriend Ka Ill and we're driving down Los Feliz Boulevard and some fucking lunatics on like a. I don't know what they're called, a four wheeler.

[A]

Uh huh.

[B]

Comes speeding off the hill of Griffith park across four lanes of traffic into a driveway and comes to a screeching halt. And I'm like, those fucking people almost killed us. That's Kristen with that guy from Punk'd.

[A]

I was gonna say it probably was Dax driving.

[B]

It was Kristen and Dax.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Driving to Dax's house where he used to live. And I called her and I was like, you and the dude from Punk'd almost just killed me and my boyfriend. And she was like, Hi.

[A]

Come over.

[B]

I haven't seen you in forever. And that in 2008, was the rekindling. And then from then we really were.

[A]

And so had they just showed. They just started dating at that point.

[B]

Just.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And he was, like, showing her the cool. Mm.

[A]

Trying to impress her with the. Truly.

[B]

If I was on a date with someone and they did that, cartoon birds would come and sew my pussy clothes. But somehow it did it for her and you. And God bless. I would say you just put our lives in danger. I don't quite think so. She said, everybody dance. No, she loved it.

[A]

She went the opposite way.

[B]

She went the opposite way. We are different people.

[A]

It's so funny. They are kind of perfect for each other.

[B]

They're really. Angel. I'm obsessed.

[A]

Oh, my God. Okay, so wait, so she. She didn't have this role in mind for you?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And it's obviously there must have been at some point where she's like, what about my friend Jackie Tone? What?

[B]

Okay, so I don't wanna. I'm not like, demon. I'm just saying that didn't happen. So what happened was the reason I was bringing this whole Griffith park story up was because she and I went on a hike. We come back to the house, and she's like, very not. She's not a very, like, talk about her career person. Like, she's got so much going on in life, and she's just, you know. So first. Tim, we come back from a hike before the writers strike. She is like, oh, I have a zoom. I gotta go. I gotta go. I have a zoom. She gets on this FaceTime, and it's with Steve Levitan and Aaron Foster. And after our hike, and she's like, wait, wait. Come here two seconds. Come here two seconds. I'm working. Steve, Aaron, everybody, this is. Oh, Jeff, this is Jackie. I'm like, what's up, you guys? And she's like, we're talking about who would be a good rabbi for this shiksa show. And I was like, okay. I mean, I know they already had their list, but I said, babies, you came to the right place. Let me pull up a chair. What are we gonna. I go, are we looking Adam Pali? Are we thinking Adam Brody? Are we going more of a Max Greenfield? Is he a little bit out of range? All I think about is what hot Jew men could be like. My love interest is, by the way.

[A]

Like, my dream board. It's basically like me pouring down my dream board of all the guys I had crushes on. Same sex.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was, like, giving them all these names. I went into my phone because I literally had a doc, I wrote a movie, and I already made, like, a hot my age Jew man list. And I was like, okay, do we have. And I had some, like, random. So I was like, skylar, Aspen's a little younger, but I feel like it could be cute, you know, all the things. Yeah, yeah. But we all from Jump. Everyone was like, it's Adam Brody. And then we can figure out the rest of the list if it's not Adam Brody, but it's. It's Adam Brody.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Good night.

[A]

That's what everyone wanted.

[B]

And then I left. And then there was the strike. And that was it.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And that was then in truly November, after the strike, I get an audition for a show called Shiksa to Read for the Rebecca roll, which is Adam's ex, Right? And then I call Kristen and I'm like, oh, my God, I just got an audition for your show for this Rebecca role. And she goes, no, no, no, no, no. And now she's.

[A]

She's involved.

[B]

Now she's like, no, no, no, no, no. There's like a cunt sister in law. Let's wait till those sides drop, and then audition for that. So then I call my team, which I haven't worked in years, so I don't exactly have wind in my sails to call my agent and be like.

[A]

We'Re gonna hold off.

[B]

I'm gonna hold off for another roll. They're like, but I told them I'm at Kristin's. She says, told. She goes. And she's very cool like this. She's like, tell them.

[A]

I said, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, okay, chills. So I call my agent. I'm like, kristin really thinks that I should read for Esther. And so I'm gonna wait. And they were like, okay. And so I made a tape in my kitchen with my boyfriend, sent it in, and then didn't hear anything in November. Didn't hear anything for December. I didn't find out. My manager at the time called me after New Year's and was like, talk to your literal best friend about this acting job. And I was like, no, I'm not gonna make it weird. I'm not gonna go to her house.

[A]

Was there any feedback after you had gone in that I knew that they.

[B]

Liked the tape and that the tape went on to producers.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But also, it's like, Kirsten's not choosing who's on this show. She's one person amongst Aaron Foster, Steve Levitan. She's one person among studio, network, Netflix, 20th. People need to agree on who they like the best. And it was really nice. Cause we were. I didn't know this, but I was on a panel with Kristen and Aaron and a bunch of the cast a couple months ago, and Erin told the story from her pov, and she was like. When I heard that Kristen's best friend was sending in a tape for Esther, I was like, fucking kill me. Because we're gonna like, have to at least consider her. I mean, we're not gonna hire her, nor would we have to, but we're gonna have to at least, like, play along about. And then we watched the tape and we were like, oh, it is her. And it made me feel really. Made little chills. It made me feel really good. She was like. Everybody looked at each other and they were like, oh, yeah, that's her. That's her. That's her. Yeah, that's her. And this time I was like, it's me. Please, like, let me it be. And then here we are. And then it became more and more and more. I had more and more to do, which was also so.

[A]

Right. Well, I mean, you ingratiate yourself to the character and the cast and the writers, and then they start writing for you, and it becomes like. It takes on its horror thing.

[B]

You know, I. Steve Urkel'd them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was supposed to be a guest star. And I said, well, my mother has a different idea. My mother's opinion is that I should be on it more now. What do you think about that? I have to also check myself sometimes. Cause it's like, you can't be on a hit show for two years and then continue posting on Instagram. Like, somebody pinch me. It's like, you're doing it.

[A]

You're not.

[B]

You know what I mean? Kristen even said to me, she's like, stop with the. We get it. You're grateful. Yeah.

[A]

I mean, but it's okay to have those moments where you feel. I remember when I was shooting a scene in Modern Family, we used to part of the lot for our backyard. And it happened to me next to this building where I had had some of my worst auditions of my life. And, like, I remember failing miserably in this. In this. In this casting office. It's not like the casting director that I had this horrible audition for was. Was still in the room, but I remember seeing the building, and it was right next. In fact, the building might have even acted as, like, one of the Walls of our. On the Foxhall, of course. And so I remember shooting this scene in this backyard that they'd erected and basically, you know, the parking lot that they made it look like our backyard.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And I was underneath the window of this space where I had failed so miserably for so many years and had was traumatized.

[B]

I cannot wait.

[A]

I was like, I love that I now am reclaiming the space and I happen to be like I have multiple Emmy award nominee on this huge hit show and I'm playing scenes under the window that like I used to fail behind. And I just, I feel like when I. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Multiple Emmy nominee. So I shit the bed for that one episode of Graze Suck my. I'm obsessed. I have such a, like a similar story for you.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I had a. So I had development da development da da. And then when I was 24, I tried out for a mid season replacement show called Regular Joe and it was starring Daniel Stern, the greatest. Judd Hirsch, the greatest. And it created by David Litt who created King of Queens. I auditioned for the show and they had fired everyone from the pilot. But it got picked up to mid season. I auditioned, they fire the girl from the pilot. I'm at the screen test and I talked to this girl, she's delicious. We've become friendly. And she was like, you know what's really crazy? I did the pilot, but they are making me. They fired me and I'm re auditioning for this part with you. And I'm like, you're joking. And she was like, let's see what happens. This business is crazy. She was so cool. I book it. I book this series, this mid season replacement. I show up to CBS Radford where I have my picture for the first time on my little ID card. Pull up to the gate, sup my guy. You know, my shit doesn't sink. And they had told me to come and it was like weird energy. And there was up fronts the night before and nobody went. And I was like, what's happening here? And I go to pull into my spot to drop my parents off so I could go meet with the producers. And a man is paint rolling my name off my parking space.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

And he was paint rolling Jackie Tone off my spot.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And I was like, what's going on? Dropped my parents off. I went over to. Oh no. Kept my parents in the car, backed out, went over to the executives, was freaking out. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And then we're like, well that certainly Wasn't the way we wanted you to find out another version of oh, my God, it's happening.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then it didn't happen. I find out that day I've been fired and replaced with the girl I ran into at the audition who they fired from the pilot, who they made re audition for her own role that she didn't book. I booked. Now I'm fired. She's replacing me.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So when we shot so then when we had our table read for season one of Nobody wants this there. Oh, you had it at that at CBS Radford. So I pull onto the lot and.

[A]

I'm like, oh, my God, I'm reclaiming my time.

[B]

Hi up. May I please reclaim my time?

[A]

Absolutely wild. But walk me through a little bit just like, how what it was like, I mean, obviously you and Kristen are good friends and I know you also, didn't you. You lived with. Was it Jessica Biel, like, at the beginning of your time here in la.

[B]

Gross in the face and the body, but otherwise she's gotta go yucky.

[A]

But like, to be surrounded by people who are, you know, making things happen.

[B]

That'S sort of what I felt like before when I was saying the Forrest Gump thing. I'm like, God, there's so many, like, weird and wild things. I've, like, been right, like, truly, you see the picture and I'm just, I'm like right out of frame. I don't know why I said that. You had asked something about.

[A]

I was just talking about, like, oh, Jesse Beal. Yeah.

[B]

I was like a young up and coming actor and we were best friends and I lived with her and it was just like, I was fucking pumped for her. She's the best. But it was just very interesting. Like, for example, we would like, practice lines for her for a movie she was doing and she'd be like, how would you say this? And then I'd give her an exact line reading. And then I couldn't even get an audition. But I'm like, not coaching, but I'm like suggesting a funny, quippy way to say something to a movie star. But, like, I don't have two nickels to rub together.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It was like a weird.

[A]

You know, Eric Stonestreet has a really interesting story that I don't. I mean, I love this story. It's his story to tell. But, like, I think it's so fantastic. He was helping a friend put themselves on tape for Modern Family and he was just reading behind the camera and he was like, God, I really resonate with this part. And he was asking his agents if he could get an audition for it, and they were just like, not interested in seeing him. And, you know, obviously we know how that worked out. He ended up getting that role. But, like, the first time he even saw the sides was he was putting his friend on tape and he was just reading, I think, my lines as Mitchell off camera. You know, it's. It's wild.

[B]

I know how did it do. We know how he'd end up getting in, because I think it was just.

[A]

Perseverance and like, I think they also were, you know, seeing so many different types of people. I think that they were at one point, like, let's just open the floodgates up and like, see more people, see more types and see what comes through. And there was just chemistry between the two of us. So, like, it worked out. But, like, I know it's not an immediate yes, that is wild. Yeah. But when you're talking about auditions with glow, were you asked if you wrestled? I mean, there was so much physicality in that.

[B]

You know what's fun about Glo? It was, you know, how many times in my life and career I've just bold faced lied on an audition?

[A]

Oh, I've done it so many times.

[B]

I remember my old agent, Aggie Gold at Fresh Faces Agency in Baldwin, Long Island. You have to say all of it. You know, you can't just say, she was the best. And I booked a job where I had to rollerblade because she told them I was like a great rollerblader. I. And then I had to learn how to rollerblade. She told the people on Sesame street that I was a pogo sticker. So I had to learn how to pogo stick. Did it alone at my house where my parents weren't home. Broke my nose, fell flat on the marble. My neighbor Salvinti came over and my nose was crooked and he squeezed. He squeezed the bridge of my nose. He's like, you're gonna be fine. Your parents will be home in an hour. You're gonna be fine. He left fully had broken nose. It healed. They had to do cover up on me when I was on Sesame Street. Thank you. And then talk about lying on a resume. She was like, she can do it all. There's nothing she can't do except rollerblade and pogo stick. And. But so for. It was just my childhood happening again when Jen Houston was like. Although I didn't really lie that much. I sort of played the cause a bit part of the Bit in Glow. Is that the girls? Melrose is a music video girl.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

She's obviously not a wrestler, so to have to learn to wrestle in real time as they were sort of created.

[A]

Like a girl group.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I did say that I was like super athletic and like I was not. And so, yeah, it was just in a long line of me just being like, what do I need to say to get the gig? I'll figure it out later. And then we did do four weeks of wrestling training before every season. These are good. Cold.

[A]

Yeah, they are good. They're delicious.

[B]

They're almost sweet.

[A]

They are. Wow. Yeah. Are you so proud of your girlfriend Drescher? For the. For what she did with the. I love her SAG after strike.

[B]

I love her. Yeah.

[A]

Do you guys keep in touch?

[B]

No, but I keep in touch with her ex husband who is the co creator of the Nanny, Peter. Just through Instagram and he's the cutest and they're delicious. And my dream to this day, if anyone ever asks me, like, what's the ultimate goal, it's to be the nanny. So I don't. It's still. You're kind of on your way to be like the. To come down the stairs in the fun outfits and a multicam.

[A]

Yeah. Aren't they making the banana? Am I making that up? They're not, right?

[B]

I think they were. Maybe I heard like for a moment, Rachel Bloom was talking about like a Broadway version.

[A]

Right. Maybe that's what I thought.

[B]

I was thinking of bending over every desk in the city.

[A]

Tell me if that ever happens. It's absolutely you. That's a great idea. The Nanny, the musical.

[B]

Who do we know?

[A]

Can you imagine? You just. Okay, you put this out in the universe, all you want to do is walk down a set of stairs in those fabulous costumes. It's gonna be on Broadway.

[B]

That's how you're making it, Mr. Sheffield. I don't want Cece saying now, come on, come on. And then a nanny who could sing.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah, well, she was working.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

It seems like a no brainer, but you know how these things work.

[A]

No.

[B]

And like young people. I don't know.

[A]

You're fresh, you're young.

[B]

Listen, tell that to my eggs.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Just kidding. They're on. No, they might be.

[A]

It's going to happen. I adore you. I'm so happy you did.

[B]

I adore you. This was the greatest. I got this ask and it was like I put on my rocket boots. I was like, today. Now where do I go how do I see him? I could not wait.

[A]

I love you. And you know what? All of this, all this is on me. Dinner's on Me.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Name of the podcast.

[B]

Funny, I didn't even bring a wallet, so I had a feeling.

[A]

You don't have one in the backseat of your curb?

[B]

No, I have Giles bring my wallet around. Giles, hide my credit card. I don't want Jesse to know I have money.

[A]

This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Maciel's plant based butcher and deli in Highland Park, Los Angeles. Next week on Dinners on Me. You know her as Susan Meyer and Desperate Housewives. It's Teri Hatcher. We'll discuss her early years growing up in Silicon Valley and how she's trying new things in her career and being a total badass. Like trying stand up comedy. And we'll get into her new Rewatch podcast, Desperately Devoted. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Behr engineered this episode. Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week Limu Emu and Doug. Here we have the Limu Emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug Limu. Is that guy with the binoculars watching us? Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty Liberty, Liberty. Liberty Savings Ferry, underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.