Jason Isaacs — on being Daniel Craig’s on-stage lover and his career advice for his ‘White Lotus’ kids

Summary

Episode Summary: Jason Isaacs — on Being Daniel Craig’s On-Stage Lover and His Career Advice for His ‘White Lotus’ Kids

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson brings listeners an intimate and engaging conversation with acclaimed actor Jason Isaacs. Recorded in the vibrant city of London, this episode delves deep into Jason's illustrious career, his experiences in theater and television, personal journeys of sobriety and veganism, and invaluable advice for emerging actors.

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Introduction and Early Connections

Jesse Tyler Ferguson begins the episode by setting the scene in one of London’s premier vegan restaurants, Tendril, highlighting the unique dining experience that complements the candid nature of the conversation.

Jason Isaacs reminisces about his brief encounter with Jesse on the set of Awake:

[02:15] Jason Isaacs: "I remember being on the set one day and walking and seeing you come out of your trailer in a sailor's outfit."

This early connection paves the way for a meaningful dialogue about their shared experiences in the acting world.

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Career Highlights and Notable Roles

Jason Isaacs provides insights into his diverse acting journey, from portraying Lucius Malfoy in the Harry Potter series to his recent role in The White Lotus. He shares anecdotes about working in high-profile franchises and the challenges that come with such roles.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson expresses admiration for Jason's versatility:

[09:13] Jesse Tyler Ferguson: "I've been so jealous of them. I've never done a comedy. The only comedy I've ever done is Death of Stalin."

Jason Isaacs reflects on his career trajectory and the unpredictability of the entertainment industry:

[31:17] Jason Isaacs: "I keep saying enjoy this. Stop talking about what happens to other actors... We're in Thailand. Look at this. Today we've got a day off."

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Theater Experiences and Angels in America

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Jason's transformative experience performing in the UK premiere of Angels in America. He narrates how the play impacted both him and the audience, emphasizing its enduring relevance and emotional depth.

[10:15] Jason Isaacs: "I think it changed almost everybody who saw it forever in some way... They were choking on their tears and standing and cheering."

Jesse Tyler Ferguson resonates with this sentiment, sharing her own connection to the play:

[12:11] Jesse Tyler Ferguson: "I totally understand that... that play has always meant a lot to me."

Jason recounts personal stories from the production, highlighting moments that underscored the play's powerful message and its influence on his professional life.

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Working with Gillian Anderson on The Salt Path

Transitioning to his latest project, Jason discusses collaborating with the legendary Gillian Anderson in the film The Salt Path. He offers a glimpse into their on-set dynamics and the emotional depth required for their roles.

Jason Isaacs praises Gillian's professionalism and camaraderie:

[20:50] Jason Isaacs: "Gillian Anderson... she was my wife and she'd be loving and we'd be crying or be laughing, whatever it was."

He elaborates on the challenges and rewards of working closely with such a talented co-star, illustrating the synergy that drives their performances.

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Personal Journeys: Sobriety and Veganism

The conversation takes a heartfelt turn as Jason shares his personal battles with addiction and his path to sobriety, which began 26 years ago. He candidly discusses the struggles of overcoming addiction and the profound impact it has had on his life.

[38:02] Jason Isaacs: "I've been sober for 26 years. It was inconceivable to me that I wouldn't have a life beyond it."

Additionally, Jason touches upon his adoption of a vegan lifestyle four years prior, reflecting on the motivations and challenges associated with this change.

[37:43] Jason Isaacs: "I think life was going too well. I need something else to hate. There's no drugs and drink anymore. I'm faithful, you know, food was the only joy left."

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Advice for Emerging Actors

Drawing from his extensive experience, Jason offers sage advice to young actors, emphasizing the importance of building meaningful relationships within the industry and maintaining focus amidst success.

[28:58] Jason Isaacs: "Find filmmakers you like, have lunch with them. Find interesting people making interesting projects because otherwise you can suddenly find yourself on a Happy Meal but not having a career."

He underscores the significance of staying present and savoring the journey rather than being consumed by the pursuit of fame.

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Reflections on The White Lotus

Jason provides an inside look into the making of The White Lotus, discussing the collaborative environment fostered by creator Mike White and the unexpected magnitude of the show's success.

[31:17] Jason Isaacs: "I learned a long time ago, maybe when I got sober, to be in the moment and to try and... enjoy the journey because there's no destination."

He shares memorable moments from the set and how the show's acclaim surpassed all expectations, solidifying its place as a cultural phenomenon.

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Closing Remarks and Future Endeavors

As the episode draws to a close, Jason and Jesse enjoy the meal together, continuing their lighthearted banter and reflecting on their shared experiences. They express mutual respect and eagerness to collaborate in future projects.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson wraps up by teasing the next episode featuring Martha Plimpton, ensuring listeners are enticed to return for more insightful conversations.

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Notable Quotes:

• “I think it changed almost everybody who saw it forever in some way.” — Jason Isaacs [10:15]

• “Find filmmakers you like, have lunch with them. Find interesting people making interesting projects because otherwise you can suddenly find yourself on a Happy Meal but not having a career.” — Jason Isaacs [28:58]

• “I've been sober for 26 years. It was inconceivable to me that I wouldn't have a life beyond it.” — Jason Isaacs [38:02]

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This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers a compelling narrative of Jason Isaacs' professional milestones and personal growth, enriched by heartfelt dialogues and memorable anecdotes. Whether you're a fan of his work or someone seeking inspiration from his life experiences, this conversation provides valuable insights and authentic moments that resonate deeply.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Huggies Snug and Dry. The new Huggies Snug and Dry are luxuriously soft and ultra dry. And I can personally vouch for that, because when Beckett was around a year, he went through this phase where he refused pants. He just wanted to run around in diapers and nothing else. And I thought, well, if that's the outfit of choice, it better be a good one. So I gave Huggies Snug and Dry a try, and honestly, I was shocked. They were unbelievably soft. Like, wait, is this a diaper or a cashmere throw? And let's be real. Listen, Beckett has standards. If something's even remotely itchy, it's coming off. But these, he didn't even try and tug at them. Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection of Huggies Snug n Dry diapers. So even if your toddler is running a diaper only fashion show through your living room, you know they're comfy and covered. More parents choose the new Huggies Snug n Dry softness versus the leading premium diaper Huggies. We got you, baby. So I'm here in London, knee deep in rehearsals for Here We Are at the National Theater, the late, great Stephen Sondheim's final musical. And it's been an incredible experience so far. But between the long days of learning lyrics and blocking scenes, I've come to appreciate a good system that makes everything run smoothly, like Airbnb's co hosting feature. Now, if you're a host and you're juggling life like I am right now, a local co host can handle the details while you focus on your big projects. And they can manage guest communication, check ins, and everything in between. So whether you're hosting while traveling or simply need some help, you can rest easy knowing someone reliable is looking after your place. And the best part, these co hosts are local pros who know your area inside and out, ensuring your guests have an unforgettable stay. And you can focus on what matters most. So whether you're looking to host or need a hand while you're away, find a co [e-mail] host hi, it's Jesse Today on the show. You know him as Lucius Malfoy in Harry Potter. He was on the last season, season three of the White Lotus. Also, he has a movie coming out with Gillian Anderson called the Salt Path. It's Jason Isaacs, and I remember being.

[Jason Isaacs]

On the set one day and walking and seeing you come out of your trailer in a sailor's outfit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, I remember this day.

[Jason Isaacs]

I think I want to be in that show. I'm laughing already. In sailor's outfit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is Dinner's on Me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. All right. I am sitting in a beautiful restaurant in London. You heard right, London. Waiting for my first guest of this series of episodes that I'm going to be recording here in the uk. I am living here for four months. I am doing Stephen Sondheim's last musical at the National Theater. It's called Here We Are. And it is an absolute dream to be working in the uk. I have always dreamed of doing a musical or a play on the West End. So the next handful of episodes are going to be recorded here in London. And I am so excited to introduce you to some new restaurants and have some conversations with some of the great talent that we have here in the uk. And the first guest that I get to sit down with here in the UK is someone who is very familiar to us on American shores is Jason Isaacs, who has been all over American television recently with the White Lotus. He's also part of one of the most popular franchises in the history of cinema, Harry Potter. And he has a new movie coming out with Gillian Anderson called the Salt Path. He's someone who I've admired for such a long time and I'm so excited that I finally get to meet him in person. Jason is vegan, so I always love a challenge and I found a fantastic vegan restaurant to bring Jason to called Tendril. It's a buzzy plant forward spot in Soho, serving mostly vegan food, meaning that vegetables take the center stage here, but there is a bit of dairy here and there. So what started as a pop up has grown into this full blown restaurant known for bold flavors, seasonal ingredients, and a serious creative take on modern British cooking. Tendril has also earned a place in the Michelin guide, which is super exciting and it has big love from critics like Jay Raynor. So, you know, I'm very exc to try this place and also meet my new friend. Hopefully I think we'll be friends. Jason Isaacs.

[Jason Isaacs]

Hi.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hello. How are you?

[Jason Isaacs]

Do we hug? Do we shake?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think we're.

[Jason Isaacs]

Hi, how are you? So wait, so you're at the Nash? So where are you living?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm living in Battersea. My family's with me.

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, nice.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love that reaction.

[Jason Isaacs]

Battersea, I think Battersea. I don't know. No one else in Battersea is it Nice.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It is. It's perfect for kids. I'm right across. They're going to school in Charlotte, Chelsea. It's so cute. And they have, like, little smocks that they wear. But the best part is, you know, Beckett goes to a Montessori school in Los Angeles, and he's. He's very bright, right? And the. This place in Kingsland, it's, like, great. You know, they keep them busy, but I don't think there's, like, a ton of, like, they're not diving in with, like, academics. And I asked Becky. I asked Beckett the other day. I was like, beckett, how's school? And he goes, oh, Papa, this isn't really school.

[Jason Isaacs]

That's nice. How long have you been here? A month or two.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We've been here almost two months now. And my son's saying certain words. He's like, would you come over here? Just here? Yeah. That's the only word he says with the British accent, but like a hyah.

[Jason Isaacs]

That's because they're posh kids at the school.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's why.

[Jason Isaacs]

I remember going to the Parents Day in Santa Monica, the first one, and the teacher said, lily, you want to tell your dad what we were doing about the Romans? And she said, we were doing things in Aqueducts. I said, sorry, darling, I can't hear you. She went, we were looking at Aqueducts. And I went, I'm sorry, what's that accent? She went, dad, don't. And I went, I'm so sorry. There's another child taking possession of my daughter. She went, dad, just leave it. And she had a different accent at school from home.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's.

[Jason Isaacs]

By the way, one of the reasons I ended up being an actor is I code switched. When I was a kid. We moved, and I changed accents when we moved places.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Because you grew up in Liverpool, Right?

[Jason Isaacs]

We moved to London, changed my accent overnight, went to university, changed my accent overnight. And my. I watched my daughter do the same thing. Literally two different voices.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. We have so much overlap, I'm realizing.

[Jason Isaacs]

As well, we were at the same studio. So I don't know if you remember, I met you once for about two seconds. You won't remember because I. We up my whole.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was this when you were doing a wake?

[Jason Isaacs]

I was doing awake. We were both at Fox, and I saw you because I knew Ty, because Ty did Black Hawk Down. We spent six months in rock group together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

And I remember thinking about Ty. He was so funny even then, but also so lovely. Just such a lovely, lovely person. And he had menus thanks so much. It looks absolutely fantastic. Thank you very much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Vegan menu, mostly vegan kitchen.

[Jason Isaacs]

That's good. I am mostly vegan and I want to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I have questions about that.

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, we will talk about it. It's awful. Don't ever do it. This is the worst thing I've ever done.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is great. Everyone else ever. We were just saying the default mode in LA is vegan.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, I know. But back to time, I remember thinking. Because he was already in his. Well, in his mid-30s, I think I was 14 when tobacco were down, thinking, how's this guy look? He's lovely, he's talented, he's funny. And what's happened to his career? He's got three lines in this film. What is it like being him? The next thing I knew is on the COVID of every magazine and celebrated and winning awards that he deserves because he's fantastic. There's hope for everybody.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, for sure. I mean, Ty, I think he talks about it. He was about to kind of move on.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, yeah. You would think.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, it's waiting for that next big thing and then when things happen and, you know, shows get canceled and you're discouraged.

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm the king of canceled shows. Everything I've ever done.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, awake. I remember when that came out, you know, it was quite a buzzy show and it was too clever for network.

[Jason Isaacs]

It's a cable show.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But you were proud of it and it was good. It had quite a cult following.

[Jason Isaacs]

It was good. It was. I mean, the man was depressed and he was in grief the whole time. I'm always looking for a gag. There were no gags in anywhere. So I remember being cause and it was often crying and it was quite heavy viewing. And I remember being on the set one day and walking and seeing you come out of your trailer in a sailor's outfit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. I remember this day.

[Jason Isaacs]

I think I want to be in that show. I'm laughing already. In a sailor's outfit. Look at that. I'm not going to be in a sailor's outfit ever.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so funny. I remember that. That's the day that me and Julie Bone played my sister. We went back to our former childhood home and recreated a family portrait. And I was in a sailor outfit. And then our executive producer was making fun of me because I liked being in the Taylor Ostrich so much. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I think I might just wear this home. Yeah, that's right. That was very early in our run.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, yeah, it was early in the run. But we love to. My whole family like to rewatch and rewatch them. Parks and Rec, Modern family. They watched 17 seasons of Grey's Anatomy twice during lockdown. We're all watching Parenthood again and we're nostalgic. We're like, so, yeah, I've seen every second of it. I've been so jealous of them. I've never done a comedy. The only comedy I've ever done is Death of Stalin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

And my friend Tim Daly's on sitcom at the moment thinking, I'd love to do a comedy. I'm just. I'm such an end of peer entertainer. I just love a good gag. So the thing is, I've seen you be very funny and now you're not being funny in the song time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I know. I'm still funny. Oh, yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

Do you like to do. Is there a part of you that longs to do? Translating drama? Do you do that stuff as well?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I like doing both. I like when. I mean, I think the best comedic performances are from people who can also do drama. Don't you? I feel like dramatic actors, I think.

[Jason Isaacs]

Comedians can always do straight stuff. Comedians clearly can tell a story, so they can always do straight stuff. But I don't think that dramatic actors can become. Is about timing. You can do any timing in drama and people can go, that works. But, you know, comedy's. It's empirical. You get a laugh, but you don't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

It's binary, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So you were at the National. Let's talk about this. So I'm at the national now and you, 32 years ago were in the UK premiere of the greatest play ever written, Angels in America. And I really want to talk about this because that play has always meant a lot to me, as it means a lot to me.

[Jason Isaacs]

I think it did just change my life. I think it changed almost everybody who saw it forever in some way. But every single day, crossing the Waterloo Bridge, looking at the National, I felt like the greatest moment of my life was about to unfold and I knew something great was going to happen. It's a history piece now and, you know, thank God, but at the time, many people were dying of aids.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes. This was.

[Jason Isaacs]

Reagan was in power and the politicians who Tony references in the play were doing and saying the terrible things that they were doing in real life. And so it was a, you know, it was a piece about the world we lived in, but it was also a fantastical, timeless piece. One of the fantastic things about doing the national is Lots of people had season tickets, came and didn't know they would come and see a gay fantasia. They probably thought they'd come see a musical, you know, I remember, God, I remember this so vividly. Salmon Rusty came and there was a fatwa out on him. He hadn't been seen in public anyway. I mean, me and Stephen Delane come up for the first scene, we come off and we go, fuck me. Did you see? He was sitting in the third row. Some rushed to, came with two special brands because it was guarded by the policemen at that time because people were trying to kill him. And they were, you know, you could tell them a mile away. They had the police mustaches on, they were looking around. They did not come and sign up for seven hours of gay sex. That was not the thing they wanted. And by the end, they were choking on their tears and standing and cheering. And so I'm sure they were changed too. It was such a magnificent experience. And I'm afraid I have told this story before, but it's so true. Right at the end, somewhere near the end of the run, I was sitting in the wings. It might have been between the two plays a day when we were doing both of them and the two older actors, Harry Talbon, who was Naegle, walked by and they went, you're right, darling. I said, yeah. Just thinking that whatever else I do professionally, nothing's gonna touch this. I mean, nothing could ever be like this experience. And instead of saying what I would say to a 28 year old actor or whatever, don't be silly, you've got your whole life out of you. They went. We were just saying how glad we are it's come at the end of our careers. In the dressing room I'm like, thanks, but it's true. And I've been lucky and I've worked a lot and I've been in some good things, but. But nothing will ever touch that. It was something else.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I totally understand that. Yeah, I mean, that's a very, very special piece and it resonated with so many people. You know, it found me in Albuquerque, New Mexico. And that's where I first discovered it.

[Jason Isaacs]

I remember, I mean, the. Some friends. My parents would come. My parents are not from the world where people even go to the theater really, certainly to see things like this. And they, because they're friends of my parents, they would go, can you get us tickets? And I go, yeah, it's three and a half hours on Tuesday and three and a half hours on Wednesday, or we do both on Thursday. And they're like, you can see them panic. And they go, well, maybe we'll just come see the first one. I went, don't worry, it's sold out. I'll get tickets for both. And if you don't want them, I can sell them. Don't worry, they'd always stick to both. And I remember one coming back to the dressing room, there's people uneducated but not unsmart. And I said, did you enjoy it? They said, yeah, it's about something really important, isn't it? And I said, it is. What did it mean to you? And they said, well, it meant that there's never a perfect solution. You just got to keep going, haven't you? Whatever happens, you keep moving. And I thought, I'm going to cry now. I thought, you get it. You get what other people don't get. You get why the angels are talking nonsense. You got to what Tony wanted to say. There's never a perfect solution. And the answer is to just march on into the wind. It was such a beautiful play. Yeah, I'm just. I'm such an accurate, jealous. Just move myself to tears. Pathetic.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, but I think you know many people who have worked on that play specifically, you know, I talked to, you know, Nathan Lane's a dear friend of mine. He got to do the revival at the National.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, I was going to phone Marianne, so Marianne, who directed that direct, did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You get to go see that production at the National?

[Jason Isaacs]

I didn't want to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You didn't want to?

[Jason Isaacs]

I didn't feel it was right, you know, what's the point? I did see them on Broadway, in fact. They were very kind. So I spent a few days with Tony. He took me to the Ramble and I went, jesus Christ.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tony took you to the Rambles?

[Jason Isaacs]

Took me everywhere.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, let's.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, because it's in the play.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. You know, the Rambles is an area of Central park where in, you know, where people have people out in the.

[Jason Isaacs]

Air full on blowjobs and anal sex. Let's call it what it is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know if it's still happening there. I remember walking through Central park when I was young and going from the east side to the west side and, you know, I mean, the Rambles is also a beautiful part of the park.

[Jason Isaacs]

It's gorgeous.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

People doing herd watching and, you know, maybe like as they're looking for birds suddenly coming upon something else that they don't want to see. I remember seeing these guys walk up a very large, like, rock and they Kind of disappeared at the top of the rock. And I was like, what are they doing? And then I caught a glimpse of, like, one of them, and they were completely naked.

[Jason Isaacs]

Sure. One of them's kneeling. And you go, are they praying?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, so Tony Kushner took you to the ramp?

[Jason Isaacs]

Tony took me. So many plays. He told me so many useful things for the play. Mostly because he is Lewis. I mean, he is Lewis. You know, he talks like Lewis, and Lewis is written to be in his rhythms. Oh, look at that. Here we saw that looks. Aubergine with white garlic tahini.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That means eggplant, right?

[Jason Isaacs]

That means eggplant. Then we have the white bean parfait, porcini oil and white garlic, artichoke and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Dye with artichoke puree, mokameh on top.

[Jason Isaacs]

And some fluffy pita. Fluffy pita? That's a roll. Fluffy pita's a roll. That's like saying a bagel with a hole filled in as a donut. Okay, thanks so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you so much. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Jason tells me about his experience acting in what we both deem the greatest play ever written. And he tells me all about acting alongside Gillian Anderson in his new movie, the Salt Path. Okay, be right back. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold turkey. Always. It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master ham, because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care, because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905. You know, dinners on me is all about gathering around a table. Good food, Great company and feeling at home. But let's be honest, it's hard to really relax when you don't feel safe in your own space. And that's why I love Simplisafe. It's the kind of peace of mind that lets you focus on what matters, whether it's catching up over pasta with a friend or just enjoying a quiet night in. I've been using Simplisafe for a while now, and it really has changed the way I think about home security. Here's the thing. Most systems kick in after a break in, but Simplisafe's new active guard outdoor protection actually helps stop crime before it happens. Their AI AI powered cameras and live monitoring agents detect suspicious activity. And if someone is lurking around, they'll speak to them in real time, shine spotlights, and they can even call the police. I mean, how proactive is that? No contracts, no hidden fees, just real protection. It's no wonder CNET named Simplisafe the best home security system of 2025. So if you want to protect your home while you focus on what makes it feel like a home, family, friends, or the perfect roast chicken SimpliSafe has covered. Visit simplisafe.com Jesse to claim 50% off a new system with professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com Jesse S I M P L I S A F E.com Jesse there's no safe like Simplisafe. And we're back with more dinners on me. I, you know, also, you got to, you got to be with Daniel Craig at the beginning of his career.

[Jason Isaacs]

Got to be with him. We had a lot of sex. A lot of sex. I was actually anxious about having sex. And it was a weird thing because I, I, it became clear to me at drama school that all the great artists in life have been bisexual.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So you think so?

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah. Okay. Michelangelo and all. Just the actors, you know, Brando and Olivier, you know, everybody I admire to in many ways. And I thought, well, I better have sex with men. And then I thought, well, I better hatch. You know, it's only right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you try it?

[Jason Isaacs]

It's conditioning. So I hadn't tried it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Jason Isaacs]

And I had done. I know, but, but I was anxious about it in rehearsals and we were building up to. And I think at some point I'm gonna have to. And Stephen was quite. Stephen Delane, who played prior, felt tense about it. So I was tense about it and then. And I started reading these weighty tomes on the psychology of sexuality. Like I tried to intellectualize my way into it. I took my brother, who is a psychiatrist about it, and my agent, various other people. And then I kissed Daniel and he was so easy with it. And then I was easy with it and we were really easy with each other's bodies. And I thought, oh, it's just that, God, why did I build this up? And we had to lie naked under the sheet, you know, for an hour every night. It was easy. It was never easy with Stephen because he was tense, so I was tense. But Dan was so. He was the perfect bond because he's the only person I've ever met who's as. Or maybe more comfortable naked than he is dressed. You know, it's just very easy in his body.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I love that you had that comfort and ease with one another. I mean, that's.

[Jason Isaacs]

He was a lovely man. He was easy to work. Not that Steven wasn't easy, it was just. He was very comfortable with that. And so it made me comfortable with it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh. Well, yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

You know, I used to drag him to the showers and make him have a shave because I got stubble rash off him. I'm used to pinch each other's bits under the sheet just to make each other laugh, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh my God. No, that's so great. I love that. I do love the full circle moment.

[Jason Isaacs]

This is bloody delicious. Sorry, what's. Bit of meat.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm looking here.

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm not sure what this is, but it fucking.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

These are the three that are durbain. I swear it's white bean.

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm conscious that you don't swear. You're well brought up.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is the fucking white bean chili. This is the white bean and chili.

[Jason Isaacs]

It is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's amazing.

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm coming back to this restaurant.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Will you talk to me a little bit about working with Marian Elliot, who is such a great director. She directed the Salt Path, which is.

[Jason Isaacs]

She did. That's a sensory one. I'm here to promote. Watch the salt Path. That's a bit overs now. That's good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Also, one of my favorite actresses, Gillian.

[Jason Isaacs]

Anderson, she is a phenomenon because she's an utter delight to work with me. She's a fabulous actress. When someone says action. We're on the side of a mountain most of the time, walking up hills with outdoors in very arduous conditions a lot of the time. And she feels a cold. She's, you know, there's not much to her, there's not an ounce of fat on her. And we had this giant warm winter Coat and she would put it on backwards like the hood on bag so she was enveloped in it and be on her phone and sit on the side, you'd see a lump of coat somewhere until they said action. And she'd fling it off and she'd come over and she'd be my wife and she'd be loving and we'd be crying or be laughing, whatever it was. And then they'd go cut and she'd run back to the little heated tent sometimes for her. But we got on very well and we have, you know, we have a nice dry texting relationship, but on set. Well, it wasn't tense or anything, but we lived in different acting planets.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so interesting. It's essentially, from what I gathered from the trailer, a two hander. I mean.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, no, it's a two hander. I mean, other people in it, but it's a real life thing. It's a real life event which was memorialized. Someone wrote a memoir and now we're trying to make a very popular book because it's phenomenal. I don't know how to do it without making it spoiler, but I'll try and do a very quick version. There was this couple, they were farmers in Wales. They're from Staffordshire and farmers in Wales. They had an Airbnb, their barn as well. And they were, you know, they were doing okay, but they have two kids who are just at college and a friend of his, a friend of moth's, said, you know, I don't know how you provide for the kids in the future, but I've got this investment opportunity. I can make you a load of money if you want, you know, if you want to do it. So they did and they signed over their property for this investment, but it was a con and they lost everything. He, by the way, building the Airbnb had fallen through the roof of the barn and his shoulder didn't work and his leg didn't work and it got worse and worse. Anyway, they went to court one day. They had this silver bullet. Someone. They found out he'd con loads of other people. Had a piece of paper, they submitted the courts and they'd hand it in too late. And the judge went, you have to give up your house and all of your money and you've got a week to get out. Their entire life taken away from. They just were in shock. He had a doctor's appointment for his. His shoulder and his leg packed up and they went to the doctor, still in shock, really, and. And the doctor Said, sit down. I've got bad news for you. And then what? They thought it was arthritis or, you know, bad shoulder. And he had a fatal, degenerative neurological condition and he had possibly weeks or months to live. And he said, go home and avoid the stairs and say your goodbyes, not knowing they didn't have a home. Yeah, didn't have a home. Before they knew it, in a blink of an eye, the bailiffs are banging at the door to kick him out. And then a book, a box in their hands with a book sticking out. And it was a map, a guide to the southeast coast of Britain. And she went, why don't we just walk? Which is a weird thing to say to a man whose leg wasn't working and arm wasn't working. His brain was packing up. But. But he said, well, they had nowhere to stay. They didn't have friends. They were embarrassed and ashamed to ask if their friends, if they could stay with them or live with them, didn't know what they were gonna do. So they walked. And it's a story of that, what happened on their walk. It's a really extraordinary story about these two people. And making it was unlike telling a fictional story. You think, I've met the real people. They're amazing. The book's amazing. You feel a responsibility to try and capture some of the extraordinary feeling you get when you read the book or when you meet them. And I hope the film has captured some of that. I don't know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, there's gotta be. And I think about this actually with Harry Potter too, but, like, a pressure when you are being given the gift of portraying something people already love. People that already love. They love it so much. And I think about that a lot with actually, you know, with Harry Potter. You know, those books were so incredibly popular and, you know, then you were given the opportunity to bring this person to life.

[Jason Isaacs]

And, I mean, well, it's a perfect segue to talk about Marianne, actually, in some ways because, like you say, she comes from the theater.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

And on Harry Potter, the thing that was very surprising is how much leeway we had to improvise and change things. Jo, I think, recognized there were films and not books, and it's a different medium. And she. She gave. She wasn't on set. I didn't meet her for years and meet her for the sixth book, you know, and. And for my very first day, I was improvising lines. And my very first shot was walking out of Dumbledore's office from the end of Chamber of Secrets and where he just dismisses me and I leave. And I went, I don't know if this. Would this guy leave without saying something? Harry Potter's there. He's a very proud, arrogant man. Surely he'd say something. Trying to get status back in. Well, we'll try something. And I made up a line and Daniel made up a line back, and I thought, we're allowed to make shit up in Harry Potter. Mariana, on the other hand, comes from theater, and so she always had the script in her hand. And for her, the script was sacrosanct. And that was an unusual experience. The only other time I've ever experienced that was doing some episodes of the West Wing. And although Aaron Sorkin had left, there was this culture of a semicolon is a semicolon, it's not an ellipse. And like, you know, you know, you. You better make sure that, you know, you don't turn do not into don't or vice versa. And I've struggled with it a lot. It's not how I'd ever worked before. And it was my introduction into American TV culture, which was very, very different. I'm presuming on a comedy you get more freedom to change.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So much more. So much more. Anyway, you know, it's very collaborative. Did you get to see Daniel Radcliffe in Merrily you Roll Along?

[Jason Isaacs]

I didn't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You didn't?

[Jason Isaacs]

I haven't seen Dan on stage, which is a shame, really.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I always knew Great on stage.

[Jason Isaacs]

I always knew he was smart. I thought he would. And I still think he'll end up being a director as well as an actor. But I loved what he. He has such. He was anyway, so grounded and so mature, always and humble. And he's continued to be ambitious, really ambitious and take risks as well. He's like, I've done. I've been famous, I've been rich. I am those things. So now I can do interesting independent films.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Jason tells me about the life advice he gave to his TV kids on White Lotus and how his outlook on life shifted after he became sober. Okay, be right back. So picture this. You're running a business and suddenly you realize, oh, no, you need to hire someone. Like yesterday. You've been there, right? But don't panic. I got you covered. Just use Indeed. Why waste time on other job sites hoping someone notices your post? Indeed's sponsored Jobs helps you stand out and hire the right person and fast. Here's how it works. Sponsored Jobs bumps your post to the top of the page for all the right candidates. That gets your post in front of the eyes of the people you actually want to hire. Indeed just makes hiring so much easier. I remember a time when finding the right person felt like a full time job in itself. If only I'd used Indeed back then, I could have avoided so much stress and maybe even found time to, I don't know, go to cooking school. Oh, and also, there's no strings attached with Indeed sponsored jobs. There are no monthly subscriptions or long term contracts. You only pay for results. Want to know how fast they are? In the time it's taken me to tell you this, 23 hires were made on Indeed. 23. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Vacation season is nearly upon us and this year, you know, I'm treating myself to luxe upgrades that I deserve with Quince's high quality travel Essentials at fair prices. Think lightweight loungewear that's perfect for those long haul flights or premium luggage options. The best part? All Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quint's cuts out the costs of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I just love that. I've been eyeing their expandable Carry On Hard Shell suitcase which comes in four sizes and a bunch of colors. It's just so nice to be able to get an extra inch of packing space in if I need it. I love options. I also just had a tab open for the Nappa leather duffel bag which for under $200 feels like a steal. For your next trip, treat yourself to luxe upgrades you deserve from qu. Go to quince.com JTF for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com JTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com JTF and we're back with more dinners on me.

[Jason Isaacs]

When I've been around other young people who are having moments in their career and they blow up. Even the kids who play my kids in White Lotus who I became very close to Patrick, Sam and Sarah Kathleen. I'm like, I keep saying go to Sundance, find filmmakers you like, have lunch with them. Find the people. I know that your agents will be going you just had this giant launch. Let's get you in a huge franchise. You can do that, too. But make sure you find interesting people making interesting projects and do that stuff, because otherwise you can suddenly find yourself on a Happy Meal but not having a career.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right. So speaking about White Lotus a little bit, I, you know, I love all of those seasons. I've seen the last two.

[Jason Isaacs]

He's an extraordinary talent. Talk about extraordinary talents. Mike White is incredible. Really special.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I started season three, and then I came here and I went right into rehearsal. And so I saw the first three episodes. I was like, let me figure out how to continue to watch Lotus here. I know there was something called a vpn. I don't know what that is.

[Jason Isaacs]

It was on British Channel as well. You have to have Sky.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I can't find it anywhere.

[Jason Isaacs]

You need Sky.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Listen, this is what I'm getting at. I have not finished.

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, you stopped.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, I stopped the first three episodes. And I am.

[Jason Isaacs]

No, it's a very slow, but like a great torch song. He takes it very, very slowly. You know what a great singer sings. You like, Please belt, please.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, no, I've seen the.

[Jason Isaacs]

He waits and then it gets going.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The magic. I know, because that's how he's. Every season is that way. But it's been impossible. The show is so popular. Popular. It's been impossible to avoid. So I'm getting information, you know, stuff now from little. Would you. I mean, do you want to recap what happens after episode three for me?

[Jason Isaacs]

No. Here's the thing about him. There'll be many shows like it. When we were making it. I don't know if you've had this. You've been in a very big success that ramped up so many seasons. But I've been in things somewhere successful. I've been in lots of big failures, lots of shows that are canceled. So I was with the other actors in White Lotus now, you know, I'm older than them and they allowed me to patronize them because we all got close and spend a lot of time just hanging, doing nothing together. And I was constantly saying to them, enjoy this. Stop talking about what happens to other actors. Stop talking about what's coming down the road. We're in Thailand. Look at this. Today we've got a day off. We rented a boat. Enjoy the journey because there's no destination. Just enjoy this. Don't be living in its success. Little did I know what would actually happen. It blew up a billion times over. But I do think it's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You didn't think that it would.

[Jason Isaacs]

No. What you don't ever know. But no one. No one had any idea that this thing would happen to it at all. It's just it. And it was for me, I learned a long time ago, maybe when I got sober, to be in the moment and to try and. If I'm. When I'm not in the moment, to recognize it and to try and be present. And so I was in film with Peter Pan, for instance, at. Shot for 14 months on the Gold Coast. It's a beautiful film, great film. And it destroyed everybody's career. It took, you know, five and a half cents and a bubblegum wrapper, and it was all over for everybody. I couldn't get a walk on him. CSI Hendon, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Are you serious?

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah. Yeah. It was. It was. I was thinking, I need plastic surgery. I've got to go. I got to go back to law.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was playing Captain Hook.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, I. Captain Hook, Mr. Dynamic, Mr. Owen in a stunning film. But I had been grounded enough to go. I'm living on a beach in Australia. We have a new baby. My wife is here. They fly friends out every month because I'm not getting paid very much, but they give me a lot of flights. This is a beautiful life. And if the film doesn't work, it'll be disappointing. But I didn't invest in its success like other people did who were. Who were crushed and broken by it. So anyway, I was saying that to all the White Lotus kids when we were doing it, and, yeah, who knew? It went bonkers. Yeah, it went really, really nuts, you know?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like for so many people, you know, like Jennifer for Coolidge and Parker Posey and Carrie Coon, who I've, like, been such a fan of for so long, I feel like if you are on White Lotus, all of a sudden, it's like it does something to your career.

[Jason Isaacs]

Not necessarily.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think there's two of the other.

[Jason Isaacs]

Actors who are great. No one's ever been better. And the reason no one's ever been better is that actors are great with great material. They're brilliant with material, and they're forgettable. Forgettable material. Everyone I know is good enough to be great with great material. Yeah, all the actors are great in White Lotus. I couldn't wait to watch what everyone else did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Ask, how much of an overlap is there? Because the show is sort of structured, that you are all in these groups and families and sort of sub.

[Jason Isaacs]

The stories don't overlap.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Subplots. And do you get time with the entire cast. Are you sort of. Well, because it's not structured with your.

[Jason Isaacs]

No, no. But you, you shoot with your family group. Yeah, but there's often the night shoots where you do the restaurant, you know, the two weeks when you do night shoot. There's two weeks on a boat, everybody's there.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Jason Isaacs]

And then they just do people one at a time. They move around, you know. And yeah, you have your, your days off or normally by just with your story group. We're there for seven months.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

There's five storylines.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

Four fifths of the time. You're off with all the other 4/5 of the people. You. Believe me, you get more than enough time with each other.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Favorite memories offset.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, my wife came when she, she's never wanted to visit a set before. She doesn't. I remember her saying to me once, she goes, you don't see it on a set. It's like the court of Louis xiv. Everyone is nice to you and they bring you tea and they love your jokes. And I went, oh, I see it, I fucking love it. I don't get that at home, you know. But for some reason that when we're in a five star hotel in Thailand.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She wanted to come visit.

[Jason Isaacs]

And we're also freshly empty nesters, so she comes, how are you? Okay, so my, my favorite days were when I first arrived. She didn't come. I was by myself for a month in the place that looks like the White Lotus. We actually were in loads of hotels, but when we first got there in the four seasons of Koh Samui, it's spectacular. And because they have to take the whole place over because you can't have a paying guest and tell them they can't use the pool or whatever. So I was given this gigantic villa and a side villa for a bedroom and a butler and occasionally a butt lady. And so I would. That's an inappropriate phrase, you know what I'm saying? A lady butler. And what kind of. No, no, it's fine. And, and So I would FaceTime. People go, look where I am. I'm living like the Aga Khan. But actually it was really lonely because we were miles away from all the other people. And the women there, Parker and Carrie and Michelle and Leslie were all in these two villas together. They hung out and did pilates and I hadn't met the other people much yet. So my kids, Patrick, Sam and Sarah, Kathy, my screen kids, came and hung out with me every day and we played cards, we watched telly, we watched movies. We had a laugh and we ate and stuff. And then we would rent boats and go out on boats by ourselves. And I got very, very close to them. Not as any kind of method thing, but I just really fell in love with them. So that's one of my favorite memories. The first month for Emma got them. Once Emma got there, she's so good with people. Suddenly all the adults wanted to know me too. And she. She was my way in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's how it is with my husband. People love my husband and, like, once they meet him, I like. They. They trust you. They like me more.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah. Yeah. That's absolutely what happened. She came, she met the women. The women all adored her. And I was. I was then invited for the dinners. And they're like, okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Because they really wanted her there.

[Jason Isaacs]

So that's somewhat. And then my favorite memories on set. Because Mike is just. People don't talk about his directing. They go, mike White is such an incredible writer. No, it wouldn't be the same if anyone else was directing. There's an atmosphere of kind of controlled chaos.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's a great dragon because he's behind.

[Jason Isaacs]

The monitor, shrieking demonically with laughter at some really inappropriate sick things and then shouting out ideas which you would never try for anyone else. But, like, it's him, and he controls the edit. You also give him things you would never give another director because there's so many storylines. It's an anthology and he's gonna have to edit it. In the end. He's not sure what tone a scene should be. Normally, as an actor, you're like, that's my bit. I will bring you this character. It's shot out of sequence. I know what I was like walking through that door five months ago. But he wants a bunch of choices, and unlike with anyone else, I was happy to give them to him because I trust him in the edict, because he's proved himself so many times. So the set was an exciting place to be, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

My favorite memories, I think, were the work. And then the other thing is, we traveled, Emma and I. Some people stayed in the hotel seven months. They think they've got an impression of Thailand. And they didn't go anywhere. They didn't see Thailand, they didn't see other countries. We went to various other countries. And I went to Bhutan, which is the greatest country on God's earth. It's the happiest place in the world. It's never been colonized, it's never been invaded. They have a Ministry of Happiness. You know about that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They Have a. I've heard about this.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah. The gross national happiness is their national philosophy. And so if they're going to do something for the country, they take, they send offices out all over the country and they take a measure of will it increase or decrease gross national happiness. And if it won't, they don't do it. So don't dig up their natural resources where they're rich in. They don't want to be richer than they are. They don't want more tourists than they are. They're the only carbon negative country world. They export hydroelectric power and, and it's very, very traditional arts and crafts, low building, traditional costumes. They're shagging like rabbits. You can marry five people, they're all slightly high on these beetle nuts and stuff. It's just paradise. So my favorite memory of Thailand was not being in Thailand.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you want to try this? Did you try this yet?

[Jason Isaacs]

No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It doesn't grab one of them before it goes away.

[Jason Isaacs]

I don't like artichoke. I'm the worst kind of vegan. I don't like most vegetables. Isn't that a terrible thing?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, how do you do it?

[Jason Isaacs]

Because I grew up on meat and potatoes. I'm very working class.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, well, wait, how did you. How did you land on vegan? As in then?

[Jason Isaacs]

I just, I thought life was going too well. I need something else to hate. There's no drugs and drink anymore. I'm faithful, you know, food was the only joy left. I don't smoke anymore. Let's take that away.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did becoming sober and veganism kind of go hand in hand for you? Or did it.

[Jason Isaacs]

No, no. I got sober 26 years ago. Vegan's like 4 years old. I'm not a poster boy for anything. I just, I haven't drunk or taken a drug and I've tried to take the benefit of the other things. And I lean into, I lean out, sometimes I'm fit and I go to a gym a lot. And sometimes I really get badly out of shape. And the same is true for my spiritual life. So that's why you're not meant to talk about it. But I was hitting 20 years, I think, and I thought I'll post something about it just to give some people hope that it can be done because I couldn't have imagined. Thanks so much. Thank you. I couldn't have imagined a minute, a day when I didn't have drugs in my pocket. I couldn't have imagined a day when I was looking at the world clear eyed or who might I be So I just thought that at that moment I would just offer a snapshot up to other people to try and be of service since I'm not. One of the things. Thanks very much. One of the things, you know, to explain to people at home because again, it's not a secret. You can buy the book and read it. What it's meant to be about is most drug addicts and alcoholics are wildly self centered and selfish. And so it's about getting your shit together and trying to be of use to other people. Trying to be of service to other people. And I'm not, because sometimes I don't do it, do it much or I don't do it well. And I don't, you know, I'm not helpful to be. I'm not even living the principles much myself, but sometimes I am. And, and what can be said is since October 5, 1998, I haven't had a drink or drug and it was inconceivable to me that I wouldn't be buried with it in my system. Inconceivable, wow. God, that is a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is that great?

[Jason Isaacs]

That's a sexy mushroom. I don't talk about it much because I don't think I do it very well. And there are other people who should talk about it more, but people should know. Only this from me, there was no chance. There was just no chance. There was never going to be a life beyond it. And by the way, things are going very well professionally. Yeah, things are going fine. And I was making money, you know, things are going fine. In our profession, people put up with anything as long as you produce the goods. When they say action.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right.

[Jason Isaacs]

And I don't know what it was that I changed, but it was never for anyone else. I was with Emma, who's now my wife. You know, we split up, we got back together again, but it wasn't for anyone else. We didn't have kids yet. She wasn't stupid enough to have kids with someone who was like that. There's just a moment and I went left instead of right. And people should know you can do it because it was nuts. The first meeting I went to, I ran screaming from, I thought, these fucking people. What a mad cult. I'm never doing that again. And I did it the next day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, I mean, I think it's really important to hear that with anything in your life, you know, where you are in that moment does not have to dictate where, where the rest of your life goes, good or bad.

[Jason Isaacs]

By the way, you're present for terrible things as well. The terrible things I. I avoided forever, you know, I avoided. When I have friends dying of eight, I avoided seeing them, which I'm. Shames me terribly. I don't avoid death now. If people are sick, you know, don't avoid it. And when people have died and, you know, to be able to sit with someone and. And not know what to say but not want to run away either. I was holding my mum's hand as she took a laugh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Me too, me too.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, it's quite something because my dad was dying. My dad didn't die. My dad's had 2 quadruple heart bypasses, 10 stents, 4 ablations. Only knows what's holding him together right now. Is he still a bit sticky about plastic? Oh, he's still around. He's swinging the golf club. He moved. He misses most of the time, but he's still around. No, but the first time he was having his heart bypass and by the way, this is like, I don't know, 40 years ago. So the operations were newer and, you know, they weren't quite as successful as a risk. We're not coming back. I was in the hospital. I remember being there. I was off my head, you know, I said, you want to buy a dad? Good luck, you know, it'll be great. See a minute. Went out to the car park, you know, did whatever drug I was doing at the time, you know, but just. I wasn't present for any of it. Had he died, I still. It would all be a smoky haze days to me now and. But I was with my mum in the hospital and I didn't need to leave the room all the time to go, you know, pull over the car, just right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Jason Isaacs]

Top up. Whatever blurry existence I. I often think of in terms of camera focus and what I felt like I needed to be underwater all the time. I needed to see the sky just through what. And if I ever came to the surface and put my head out, I just need to go back down. I needed to go back down. I didn't want to see the world clearly. I did. Some people were binge drinkers or binge druggies. No, I just. I needed permanently to be out of focus, you know, and now I can't bear it if I'm even slightly out of focus.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. So interesting. Well, I'm really. I mean, is it weird to say I'm proud of you?

[Jason Isaacs]

No, it is weird. I'll tell you why it's weird, because I tried constantly for years, couldn't Ask for help. And so you can't be proud of me. I didn't do anything. I had to go somewhere and go, I'm an idiot and I'm the last person that should be in charge of myself. You tell me what to do.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

So it's other. It's everyone else that needs congratulating.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Before we wrap this up, I want to talk a little bit about. Because we have. We share a mutual friend in common. Martha Plimpton.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Plays my wife. And here we are.

[Jason Isaacs]

She is a force. She's a force of nature on and off stage. She's quite something.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've been friends with her for quite some time. The first job I did with her was at Midsummer Night's Dream at the Delacort Theater in the Park.

[Jason Isaacs]

She was Hermia. I'm guessing she was Hermia.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She was, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, she wasn't. Who are the two lovers? It's.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah, Hermia. Helena and Hermia are the two women. Hermia's the short one.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hermia.

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm guessing she wouldn't be the tall one.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

Sorry. Martha.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi. How are you?

[Jason Isaacs]

It's absolutely delicious. Thank you so much. It was superb. Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Jason Isaacs]

Really great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This has been delicious.

[Jason Isaacs]

This is our vegan tiramisu.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Only took us nearly, like, about, I.

[Jason Isaacs]

Think, think five months. Wait, are you saying that people came here for the previous five months and had awful tiramisu?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We've got the good one.

[Jason Isaacs]

I had the opportunity. Okay, good, good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's been on for so long.

[Jason Isaacs]

Superb.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is incredible.

[Jason Isaacs]

Thank you very much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's del. It's one of the best tiramisu I've ever had.

[Jason Isaacs]

I need independent verification. There's no way this is vegan because it tastes so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's incredible.

[Jason Isaacs]

How fabulous. Thank you very much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Jason Isaacs]

That film we did together was one of the most intense experiences.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Mass.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's such an incredible film. Martha showed it to me. It was. It was during COVID so it was at Sundance, I believe, and they didn't remember. It was some festival.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And Martha sent me the link because I think the festival.

[Jason Isaacs]

That's right. It was. It was an online link for Sundance.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right.

[Jason Isaacs]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so she sent me the link and I watched it twice. I watched it once and I showed it to my husband. Husband. I was like, you have to watch this film. It is such an incredible, powerful film.

[Jason Isaacs]

Well, it's funny enough, it overlaps what we're talking about. It's a film about the power of forgiveness and how carrying resentment against someone else just poisons you. It's like trying to kill someone by drinking your own poison.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

And other. I think people mistook it thinking it was a heavy film or that it was about school shootings. It's not really. It's about forgiveness. That's the excuse for them to have hatred. It could have made a car pile up, you know, bad driving. It's about. And Martha embodied that. So I don't know. Amazingly. But, yeah, it's just. It's one of the most extraordinary. Maybe it's the most extraordinary film I've been in because it's about something I believe in. It leaves you with something, you know, well, so great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love it and I want people to see it. And if a few people listening find it, I think I've done my job.

[Jason Isaacs]

People should come and see your play.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We're gonna find you a ticket. Martha's. If I don't get a promise for me before I leave, because I'm gonna see more Martha.

[Jason Isaacs]

Of course I'm coming.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of course she's gonna ask when you.

[Jason Isaacs]

See the last place you did here. I'm seeing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She's a great.

[Jason Isaacs]

She was amazing in the last play. She.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That was the Shakespeare.

[Jason Isaacs]

The place of Shakespeare.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

I was gonna play the Almeida once, and my voiceover agent at the time said, oh, can you get me free ticket? I said, darling, I'll get you a free road. She went, oh, come on. You've got five stars in the Independent Day. You're always down on yourself. I went, it's boring. Don't come. It's boring. I'm telling you. I can feel the audience. Audience all unwrap the same crinkly sweets at the same time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Jason Isaacs]

You're like, it's not a good play. I wish I hadn't done it. She goes, you always say stuff like that. I said, you want a ticket? I go to. So I get her a ticket and we do the play. You know, this is. It is roughly sold out. And people clap at the end and stuff. And the odd idiot stands up and I come out and if I can't find her. And the barman goes, oh, your friend left me this. No, she left at half time. She goes, you didn't tell me it was this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, she left it.

[Jason Isaacs]

She was right, by the way. But it's still hurt.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's still crushed.

[Jason Isaacs]

I wander.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now, listen, if I don't. If I. If I really don't want someone to See the show. If I'm not proud of something, I will say, you can absolutely miss this one. Save your money, save your time. But you do need to come see here.

[Jason Isaacs]

I'm dying to see it. Yeah, I always like. I love a musical. I love all musicals. I'm the. I am the gayest straight man you'll ever meet. All of my playlists. So I'll show you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right up my alley.

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, we're getting into double entendre territory now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Terrible thing. Let's turn these cameras off and really get this things started. All right.

[Jason Isaacs]

You're not eating very much. I'm wolfing this down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's so good. I look at how much I'm unquestionably.

[Jason Isaacs]

Coming back to this restaurant is. Do they always have nothing on the menu? Is it just one thing?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, it's a special frost.

[Jason Isaacs]

We chose very well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You come back here, you pay next time. But this time, dinner's on me.

[Jason Isaacs]

Oh, well, thanks so much. I never carry cash anyway. Me, the royal family.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. This episode of Dinners On Me was recorded at Tendril in London Soho. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know her from the Goonies, Raising Hope, and more recently, she plays my wife in Here We Are on stage. It's Martha Plimpton. We get into tackling stage nerves, the unexpected gig she picked up between roles and her deep connection with River Phoenix. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today, Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode, Hansdale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.