Jon Bernthal – on Career ‘Lumps’ & Challenging Himself on Stage

Summary

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Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode: Jon Bernthal – on Career ‘Lumps’ & Challenging Himself on Stage
Release Date: May 19, 2026
Recording Location: Lumay, West Village (NYC)

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Episode Overview

Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down at the West Village brasserie Lumay for an early morning breakfast with Jon Bernthal. Their conversation ranges from Jon's grueling Broadway run in "Dog Day Afternoon," to lessons from their early days as sitcom co-stars, to the “lumps” and setbacks that have shaped their careers. They discuss vulnerability, fatherhood, method acting, and the importance of creative risks, all in a candid, lively, and affectionate tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Life on Broadway: The Turbulent Journey of “Dog Day Afternoon”

• Behind the Scenes Turmoil
  Jon candidly describes the production's difficult, "landmine"-laden creative process, emphasizing unexpected drama, scheduling chaos, and setbacks:

  "From the beginning of this process, it’s been just, like, laden with kind of like these landmines...one small kind of like disaster after another."
  (Jon Bernthal, 03:59)

• Parallels with His Role
  Jon draws parallels between his own offstage experience and his character’s struggles in the play:

  "That is exactly what, you know, this guy is going through...Nothing goes his way."
  (Jon Bernthal, 04:45)

• Taking Big Swings, Facing Audacity
  Jon acknowledges the audacity of taking on a role so culturally iconic, and shares that his goal is always to find deeper meaning:

  "There’s a level...there’s an insane level of audacity to, like, try to take this thing on...But...the play works because it has to be its own thing."
  (Jon Bernthal, 10:55)

2. Routine, Fatherhood, and Health

• Jon’s Grueling Schedule
  Jon details his rigorous weekly commute between New York and Washington D.C. for both family and acting:

  "Sunday, right after our 2 o’clock show, my truck is parked out front of the theater. I drive as fast as I can to D.C...Monday, I coach football, I train my son boxing...come back Tuesday for the show."
  (Jon Bernthal, 02:52)

• Celiac Disease: Health Transformation
  Jon reveals how he discovered his celiac disease after years of suffering, a revelation that changed his relationship with food:

  "I just thought that that was life...when I went to Russia, after I got back, I had my blood tested and they told me I had this thing called celiac disease...literally, it changed my life."
  (Jon Bernthal, 06:11–07:25)

3. The Value of Fear and Growth

• The Role of Fear in Performance
  Jon embraces pre-show nerves as a survival tool and motivator:

  "To be able to be terrified at this point in my career...is, like, so healthy...My favorite place in the world is...right before I go on."
  (Jon Bernthal, 07:54)

• Typecasting and Expanding Identity
  Jon considers the roles he’s famous for, and his desire to challenge audience assumptions:

  "[People] look at my work and the things that first comes to mind is the Punisher or Walking Dead...I've never been strategic...I've always been like, how do I work with the best people...but it’s essential for me to also like find deeper meaning."
  (Jon Bernthal, 08:55)

4. Sitcom Nostalgia: “The Class” and Early Career Lows

• Formative Years on “The Class”
  Both reflect on their breakout TV jobs, the imposter syndrome, and close bonds formed:

  "It was my first time having a TV job...being with this cast of people...every part of it was magic."
  (Jesse Tyler Ferguson & Jon Bernthal, 15:27–17:31)

• Imposter Syndrome
  Jon honestly recalls feeling out of place and doubting his fit in sitcom TV:

  "I felt like it was almost like a fluke that I got in...my skill set or whatever would lend itself to a different medium."
  (Jon Bernthal, 20:45)

• Importance of Early “Lumps” and Rejection
  Jon stresses how rejections and canceled projects shaped him:

  "The lumps are really important, man...I think about that stuff, especially early in my career...just like a lump after lump..."
  (Jon Bernthal, 31:41)

5. Loyalty, Loss, and Loved Ones on Set

• Remembering Boss, Jon's Dog
  Jon shares a poignant story about Boss, his loyal pitbull and set mascot, whose life and death left a long-lasting impact:

  "He put his head right on my lap and...looked at me and wagged his tail...then jogged off into the woods...he was saying goodbye...I just was...crying...overwhelming sense of gratitude."
  (Jon Bernthal, 22:53–25:38)

6. Navigating Hollywood and Recognizing Success

• Coping with Setbacks and Uncertainty
  Jon emphasizes that setbacks can open surprising new doors:

  "It's always too soon to call it. You can’t judge it in the moment. And the lumps end up being really, really big gifts if you look at them right."
  (Jon Bernthal, 35:03–35:19)

• Spanning Genres: King Richard, The Punisher, and Writing
  Jon credits fighting for non-typecast roles ("King Richard") and describes his writing projects for "The Bear" and a new installment of "The Punisher".

7. On Method Acting and Creative Process

• Jon’s Stance
  Jon distances himself from extreme or flashy method acting, preferring a respectful, collaborative approach:

  "If you have a process and I can be a part of that, like, let's roll...Ensemble and the other person is always more important than, you know, the self."
  (Jon Bernthal, 41:32)

• Balance and Humility
  He recalls Cherry Jones’ acting wisdom:

  "Never let your personal happiness and your career success be related...it’s all about the people that you meet along the way."
  (Jon Bernthal, 40:49)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On creative turbulence:

  "One small kind of like disaster after another..."
  (Jon Bernthal, 03:59)

• On celiac diagnosis:

  "I lived with my mom in D.C...she’s like, let me just cook you all your meals gluten free...it changed my life."
  (Jon Bernthal, 07:00)

• On stage fright:

  "My favorite place in the world is, like, hanging out backstage...at half hour, I'm there...I love that."
  (Jon Bernthal, 07:54)

• On “The Class” camaraderie:

  "Every part of it was magic...walking to lunch was magic..."
  (Jon Bernthal, 17:16)

• On the value of setbacks:

  "The lumps end up being really, really big gifts if you look at them right."
  (Jon Bernthal, 35:19)

• On method acting:

  "If you find the most scary thing and you run at it, like, that’s where you’re going to grow the most as an artist..."
  (Jon Bernthal, 36:53)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:52 — Jon’s family life, weekly routine & coaching his son
• 06:11 — Discovery and impact of celiac disease
• 07:54 — Jon’s reflections on performing live and fear as motivation
• 10:55 — On “Dog Day Afternoon” and facing critics & legacy
• 15:27–18:54 — Sitcom nostalgia: working together on “The Class”
• 22:53–25:38 — Story about Boss, Jon's beloved pitbull
• 31:41–35:19 — The importance of “lumps,” rejection, and resilience in his career
• 35:19–37:25 — The enduring surprise and joy of playing The Punisher, new writing projects
• 37:48 — Approach to method acting, humility, and the actor’s process

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Tone and Language

The conversation is casual, intimate, and often humorous—full of friendly jabs, vulnerable admissions, affectionate memories, and thoughtful observations about life, work, and identity. Both Jesse and Jon speak openly about insecurities, professional growth, and the constant balancing act between ambition and authenticity.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is an engaging exploration of how setbacks and challenges—both professional and personal—can act as unexpected catalysts for growth. Jon Bernthal’s stories about “Dog Day Afternoon,” his early years in TV, family, health, acting philosophy, and the loss of his dog Boss reveal an actor deeply committed to integrity, humility, and meaning—onstage and off. The shared history and genuine friendship between Jesse and Jon make this a resonant, inspiring listen for anyone interested in creativity, resilience, and the unpredictable pathways to fulfillment in life and art.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know those meals that just immediately take you somewhere? Like, you take one bite and suddenly you're transported to a backyard. Someone's manning the fryer, and everyone's waiting for a taste. That's exactly what Boar's Head has managed to do. But at your deli counter, new from Boar's Head, the Fryer's turkey breast has the taste of deep fried turkey. And I mean, it's perfectly seasoned. That golden, savory flavor. It really does that thing where one bite kind of takes over and you're like, oh, okay, this is what we're doing now. And the best part, you don't have to host anything. You don't have to fry anything. You don't have to politely ask someone else to handle the hot oil, which,

[Jonathan Bernthal]

frankly, I'm always happy to avoid.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's just there at the deli, ready to go. So if you're putting together a sandwich or just standing at the counter deciding what kind of day you're going to have, the Fryer's turkey breast is a pretty great choice. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at

[Jonathan Bernthal]

your local Boar's Head deli counter.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905,

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Refreshers contain caffeine. Copyright 2026 the Coca Cola Company. Sprite is a registered trademark of the Coca Cola Company. Hey, it's Jesse today on the show.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

You know him from his Emmy award winning performance on the Bear King Richard. He's known as Frank Castle the Punisher. He is starring in an incredible production of Dog Day Afternoon right now on Broadway. It's my good friend Jon Bernthal.

[Jon Bernthal]

When I'm playing Frank Castle, like, I'm not out, like, at the discotheque, you know, like, I'm not like, eating, like, Chinese food or, like, you know, like, especially if I know that that day I have to be in a really, really dark place.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

So today I'm at Lumay in the West Village. It's a little local brasserie with a European cafe feel. John is staying in this neighborhood while he's doing Dog Day Afternoon on Broadway. And I thought it would be the perfect place to grab an early morning

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

breakfast and catch up with my buddy.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I don't know why he's after a show that he just did last night, but I'm sure he'll let me know. He should be coming here soon. So let's get to the conversation. I was shocked when I heard that you were going to bring in at 9.

[Jon Bernthal]

You know, listen, I'm up early. No matter, like. Cause I. I get up. I usually get up and go to the gym. And then I. I like to talk to Aaron right after she drops the kids off.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Right.

[Jon Bernthal]

You know, I do the shows. And then Sunday, right after our 2:00 clock show, my truck is parked out front of the theater. I get in my truck and I drive as fast as I can to D.C. and then I'm home for dinner. And on Monday, I coach football and I train my son boxing. And then I come back Tuesday for the show and pull right up to the theater. Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Such a good dad.

[Jon Bernthal]

I don't know about that. It's nuts though, man. How you doing?

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Good morning, guys. How are you?

[Jon Bernthal]

All right.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

My name's Ella. I'll be taking care of today. Are we ready for some coffee?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yes, I want coffee.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Okay. Excellent. What can I get for you guys?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I'll do, like, a latte. Like an almond milk latte. Don't yell at me.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah, I didn't say anything. I didn't even judge you yet. I didn't even listen.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

It's coming.

[Jon Bernthal]

Oh, it's coming. Can I just get. Do you have green tea by yourself?

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Green tea.

[Jon Bernthal]

Thank you.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Hot green tea.

[Jon Bernthal]

You know what I'm saying? Everybody said, get on the tea. And I was like, I ain't drinking tea.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Black coffee.

[Jon Bernthal]

Bring on the tea. Thank you.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Ellen, how are you settling into it? Because I saw you, you know, kind of at the apex of the creative process, you know, where you're working up to this opening night. And, like, obviously, I hope that night was fun for you.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah, it was good. I mean, like, look, man, I think. I mean, honestly, Jesse, I feel like this whole thing has been. And I'm trying to be like. I'm not trying to be a douchebag now, but I'm trying to be. I'm just trying to be, like, dead honest. From the beginning of this process, it's been just, like, laden with kind of like these landmines. Like, it's been like kind of like one small. Not to be too dramatic, but one small kind of like disaster after another, you know? And the process was not easy. There was A lot of drama behind the scenes. It has been difficult, you know, like, you know, my dear friend, you know, Eben, like had to miss the first two rehearsals because like a bare schedule because of like film. There's just been all these things along the way. And. And the truth is, is like that is exactly what, you know, this guy is going through in, in, in robbing this bank. Like nothing goes his way. And so like. Yeah. And the second anytime in this process where I felt, oh wow, this is going well, something comes in and it like explodes, you know? You know.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Sorry to interrupt, guys.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's okay.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Especially here at Lume is our avocado toast for breakfast with the fresh baked picassa. But you can't go wrong.

[Jon Bernthal]

So I'm going to get. You got eggs, right?

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

We got.

[Jon Bernthal]

You have eggs. Excuse me.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Of course.

[Jon Bernthal]

High maintenance. So I want some eggs, some pancakes and it. Do you guys. Yeah. Do you have any like meat, like sausage or bacon or anything you want to do?

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Bacon? What?

[Jon Bernthal]

Like, I don't see that though.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Where is that bacon? Bacon exists. We have it with our fasha blt. So we can make you make some strips.

[Jon Bernthal]

Amazing.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

You've just created your own.

[Jon Bernthal]

I know, like, you gotta eat, you

[Jonathan Bernthal]

know, I'm not in the kitchen and make your own thing.

[Jon Bernthal]

I don't just order everything and not eat it. I'm gonna get down. I'll eat every bit of it.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

So good. I'm gonna have, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna have the avocado toast. Look how simple that was.

[Ella (Server at Lumay)]

Sounds good.

[Jon Bernthal]

Okay, but like.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

No, no, no, no. I want you to have what you want.

[Jon Bernthal]

Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. This is, you know.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Do you want to go back into the kitchen? Just. Let's go fix it yourself.

[Jon Bernthal]

Oh, God. No, but you know, like before a gluten free pancake that's like to have.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Celia, that's a rare man. Do you really?

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah. And I didn't know that. I didn't know. Like, I don't know if you remember, but like, I mean for like the, the beginning part of my life, you know, like the bathroom was like an emergency type situation. Like I don't remember it like plagued me. You don't remember my, my.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I don't remember you having digestional issues.

[Jon Bernthal]

It was a huge. My whole life I just thought that that was life. And when I went to Russia, after I got back, I had my blood tested and they told me I had this thing called celiac disease.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yeah, it's really serious.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah, it is serious.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And they were like, can you not even touch it?

[Jon Bernthal]

It's the whole thing. Yeah, I get allergic to it. And I mean, I get skin reactions to it if I touch it, but. And, like, you know, think about my brothers making fun of me for that. It's like, one was, like, deciding to be an actor, and then it's like, can I get gluten free? You know, at every restaurant? And the thing is, I didn't. And this doctor told me that when I got back, and I was like, you think I'm gonna stop eating sandwiches and beer? Go yourself. And for 10 years, man, it just was like. I mean, you ask Aaron, it was like running through restaurants, knocking people over, trying to get. And that's just what I thought going to the bathroom was. And then. And then I actually came to New York to audition for a play, and I had a callback. Callback was two weeks later. And I lived with my mom in D.C. for those two weeks. And she's like, let me just cook you all your meals gluten free. Will you just try? And literally. Yeah, it changed my life. So, Yeah, I don't. I don't touch it now.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I had no idea.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah, man. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love that.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I love that little tidbit about you, because you are like that. I mean, I know you probably rage against that piece of yourself, but I follow it.

[Jon Bernthal]

I follow. I'm very strict about it. Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Good for you. Yeah.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Okay. So I was going to ask you, though, are you. Now that you've opened and you've settled into some. Some sort of a run, are you enjoying the process?

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah. You know, like, to be able to be terrified at this point in my career and at this age in my life, I think is, like, so healthy to, like, take that step. My favorite place in the world is, like, hanging out backstage, like, right before I go on. Like, at half hour, I'm there. It's like, the only time where I'm, like, alone. Like, I don't. You know, everybody has their rituals. I just like being alone and being like, you're about to take this step. It does feel like I'm going in to go into a fight. And I love that. I love that. Like, there is that moment of, like, am I gonna be like, you know, because, you know, like, I'm not up there alone, but, like, once I'm on, I'm on, you know? And so I. I think there's that. But I think what's also come about for me in this is, you know, because I Think people do associate me with certain things. And I think even though I feel like. Well, I think just like, you know, like a lot of people look at my work and the things that first comes to mind is the Punisher or Walking Dead or like these sort of like hyper.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Masculine.

[Jon Bernthal]

Hyper. Yeah, for what? I mean, depends on what your view of masculinity is. But like, you know. Yeah, you know, like these, like, very muscular, like kind of like. And, And I feel like there have been times where I've really tried maybe like what you're saying to do things to kind of play against that and to explore other sides of it. I've never been strategic kind of career wise in that way. I've always been like, how do I work with the best people and the best stuff and the things that make my heart sing? But then I. It's essential for me to also like, find deeper meaning. And I think for me in this as like a dad of two boys and because people associate me with these things, to be able to be who I am and really tell this kind of love story that looks different than what a lot of people associate love stories with or love stories that I would be a part of. That's the gift and that's the thing. That's my sword in this piece. That's the thing that I'm fighting for. I think that there's no question that like, there's a level going in. You know, I was very aware that there's like an insane level of audacity to like, try to like, take this thing on because it is so iconic and it is so sort of like steeped in the zeitgeist. And it is, it's like this classic, beautiful film and this like, legendary, you know, pair of performances and filmmaking, you know. And I think that said, I think that you, you know, I think this, this, this, this play never purported itself to be a take on the film. You know, it's a real life story, something that really happened. There's a book. There's, you know, so much sort of like information about what happened there. But I think that like the way that Steven attacked it and, and Stephen Adley Girgis, who's like, you know, like a very, you know, unbelievably like a genius playwright, complicated guy, like, like interesting guy, but his always sort of written about his. He's a New York playwright who writes about like the forgotten New Yorkers and like, gives them this like, unbelievably like, irreverent, honest, hilarious, tragic voice and Like I thought like that pairing was like really beautiful. And I knew going in like we were going to get hit. Like I knew that like there were going to be people who were going to say how dare you, how dare you try to do this. And like, look, the last thing I would ever want to do, like those guys and that performance in that movie, like they sit on that mountaintop for like it's only reverence. But the way that the play works is that it has to be its own thing. And I know for sure it has to be. And like I've had to do it that way and I know that that that also might kind of people off. But like again, for me it's like

[Jonathan Bernthal]

it's the heartbeat that's the big swing I think that we're just talking about and I think it's, you know, doesn't always pay off and it's paying off in huge ways.

[Jon Bernthal]

Thanks.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I mean it's wildly successful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, John and I take a trip down memory lane and reminisce about our time on the short lived sitcom the Class and how that job shaped us into the actors we are today. Plus, John tells a really moving story about his pitbull boss, who was a familiar face on many of his sets. Certainly I remember him from the class. Oh, rest in peace, boss. Okay, be right back. Right now our family is living that

[Jonathan Bernthal]

New York theater life.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm performing in a play right now called True, where I get to play Truman Capote and the kids are here with me and I'm working in the city, which is amazing.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I love it so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It also means I'm juggling a lot between rehearsal schedules, school drop offs, figuring out dinner in between shows, and then making sure everyone has what they. It's hard enough just getting through the day, let alone planning ahead. And while we're here in New York, fully immersed in this, you know, this season of life, it got me thinking about how our place back home is just sitting empty. If you're going to be away for a while, like me, listing your space on Airbnb can be a great way to put your space to use and earn a little extra cash while you're gone. And the idea of doing it all by yourself. See now that that just feels like too much. That's where Airbnb's co host network comes in. You can partner with a local vetted co who can handle all the behind the scenes details. So hosting feels manageable even when your schedule is as packed as mine might be, co hosts can create your listing, manage reservations, handle guests communication, and even provide on site support. So you're free to focus on the busy season ahead. If you're ready to get started, find a co [e-mail] host this episode is

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I was really just blown away by you and I, you know, also hearing that you fought for it, really. I know that's. I mean, of course you did. And I think that that is something that we obviously have to do, fight for these things that, you know, people don't necessarily see us as. Did you? I mean, I feel like I also read somewhere that you had to fight for King Richard too, pretty hard.

[Jon Bernthal]

Oh, yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And that, you know, that's also a role that I feel like when I look at, you know, that's not, it doesn't line up with the roles that, you know, you were kind of known for. But then also it very much lines up with the role that I met you doing.

[Jon Bernthal]

Sure.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Because 20 years ago we haven't even really talked about it. But like we did the show called the Class.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Which was a one season sitcom that sort of sits like in this, in our careers, I think in sort of this like almost like invisible pocket. Like not a lot of people know about it. And it's very like blink and you miss it kind of thing. But super formative for both of us in crazy ways. I mean, you know, for me, it was my first time having a TV job.

[Jon Bernthal]

Me too.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yeah. I mean, I just, it was the first time I was entrusted with something big like that. Like I felt like I had a real person job and you know, being with this cast of people that you Know, I again, came from the theater world, and here I was with, like, people I just felt like I would never encounter, like, like Lucy Punch and Lizzy Kaplan and you and like, and

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

just Jason Ritter and.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And. And, you know, I had people from the theater world, like Julie Halston, who plays your mother, and Sam Harris. Like, some of those people were, like, familiar to me, but, like, all these other.

[Lowe's Announcer]

David Keith.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

David Keith.

[Jon Bernthal]

Like, again, like, so, like, what the fuck?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How am I in a scene with David Keith?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I mean, and that role is sort of like, I see glimmers of that role. I mean, obviously you've grown so much as an artist since then, but, like, you know, I saw glimmers of him when I watched King Richard. And I see glimmers of that in, you know, Dog Day Afternoon, even just that willingness to be goofy and silly.

[Jon Bernthal]

Well, I mean, Jesse, you and me, I mean, it was like, it was, you know, man, formative. It's like not, you know, like that. That show, like, that experience, like, I don't know. Yeah, it's everything. It's like, it's kind of, you know, it's like the baseline sort of for everything. I felt the same way. Like, like, holy. Like, every day was like, you know, you're still just so full of that. Like, pinch me. What the am I doing here? Like, I'm allowed to just drive onto the lot. Like, I have a parking spot. Like, I have a dressing room. Like, and like, every part of it was magic. Walking to lunch was magic. You know, like, walk around with the dog, throwing the football, going to like, the Warner Brothers Gym, you know, like these.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Do you remember training me at the Warner Brothers Gym one day? Like, we both ended up. I don't know if you remember this. I don't remember.

[Jon Bernthal]

Still on brand.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

It was only like, for, like, I think I let you do it for like maybe 30 minutes to 40 minutes. I was like, I'm done. We gotta stop.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was in there just like, probably

[Jonathan Bernthal]

doing some sit ups, and you come in with like, you're like, probably a trainer or whatever.

[Jon Bernthal]

I probably had pit bulls.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

You had pit bulls with you. You know, chains and. And tires and things. And then you're like, come on, Jed.

[Jon Bernthal]

No, get up, get up. We're gonna do this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And like, you start yelling at me and we're.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And you basically trained me for 30 minutes. And I was like, I'm done.

[Lowe's Announcer]

I'm gonna.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I'm tapping out.

[Jon Bernthal]

Like, it was. It was also magic and like, things like, you know, like going to the up fronts or like doing press was like you, it was such a. You were like, wow, it was so great. But it was the people. It was really just that there was like this, this group of like everyone was such a badass at what they did and everyone was so invested in each other and watching each other's scenes and rooting each other's, rooting each other on. We all ate together and you know, partied together at the Smokehouse. And I don't know, you know, it was like, I don't know. But I felt like you and me especially, I felt like in a way we were the kind of newest. Like we really hadn't done this kind of thing before and we, you know, and our stuff like, was so great.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

They ended up pairing us together and

[Jon Bernthal]

like it was so great.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Which I never saw coming when I pilot.

[Jon Bernthal]

Me neither.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And then it was sort of like this odd couple.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And yeah, I mean I, I loved it. I loved all of our stuff that we had together. And I remember specifically there was something where we're sitting on a scaffold, scaffolding and we could not get through the scene.

[Jon Bernthal]

Like we were laughing so hard. Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I think the outtakes are probably on YouTube somewhere. Like it is. It was some of the greatest memories of my career.

[Jon Bernthal]

I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree, I agree. And like, you know, and just like such, such wonderful people and, and, and, and like such a, such a wonderful time and like, look, I think for me, I think while I was there, you know, I felt like I wasn't suited for it. Like I felt like this medium or this, this thing is not like, you know, like all, you know, it was that, that whole outsider, anyone who knows

[Jonathan Bernthal]

you're like your, your, your career and like, knows what you're known for. If like you said, oh, John started

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

his career on a situation, especially that

[Jonathan Bernthal]

half hour multi live studio audience.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

No, he did it.

[Jon Bernthal]

No way. No way. I know, I know. And that one too. Because it was all. That show was all heart. I mean like, that's, that's, that, that's what it was. And like, I don't know, I just, like there are certain things that you do in your life and certain people that you meet and you know, I don't know whether it's the alchemy of like the human beings that are there or the project or the time, but like, it's just, it's indelible. It's like they're, they're, they're in your heart, they're in your Soul forever. And I do. It's like, I see you. No time has passed. I feel that way with everybody on that show. I wish. I wish I just got to see people more. I just wish that there was more. More of it, you know?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

But you're saying you didn't feel like you. You were.

[Jon Bernthal]

I just felt. I just think that. I think that I. I just felt that, like, you know, like, it was almost like a fluke that I got in, you know, like, I felt like I didn't. It's not like I ever, in a million years. Because you remember, like, during that time I was, like, auditioning for the Pacific. I remember, like, being outside. I think we were like, on the lot. I was like, jesse, Jesse, just. Hey, let me just do this model

[Lowe's Announcer]

for you one time.

[Jon Bernthal]

You're like, john, you've done this for me. Like, just watch it. Just watch it one time. Watch it. Like a psychopath. And I, like, worked up and like, I just think that I thought that, like, my skill set or whatever would lend itself to a different medium. Like, I remember kind of like having that conversation with. With. With. With. With. With. With Anders, with Andrea, just like, saying to her, like, I don't know, like, I can. I feel like I might be able to do this, but I don't know that I would be able to keep doing and. And who knows, like. Like, how different things would have been if I had been able to go do a. Another kind of, like, comedy or if that show had. Or if that show had gone. Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. Let's go.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I mean, because don't judge it.

[Jon Bernthal]

Everything's here. Thank you so much.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Thank you. There's a plate number four for John. We have bowl. Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Five.

[Jon Bernthal]

I'm just gonna dump this on here. Look. See how I do this?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Monster.

[Jon Bernthal]

I'm gonna give that to you back. Thank you.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Now what are you gonna do?

[Jon Bernthal]

Listen, I don't know if you have four.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

You still have four plates going.

[Jon Bernthal]

I know, but I feel like maybe, like, on this, like, I'm not gonna

[Jonathan Bernthal]

be a pot of jam.

[Jon Bernthal]

I'm not gonna be the least bit self conscious.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

No, I don't want you to be, because I'm.

[Jon Bernthal]

I'm on this very weird eating schedule, Jesse, with this play, like, I. I don't eat. I eat breakfast, and that's kind of it.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Y.

[Jon Bernthal]

And part of me was like, you know, maybe what I'll do is I'll go eat something. So I'm not like a complete barbarian on his show.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Can you imagine?

[Jon Bernthal]

He's gonna be the barbarian.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

All right, be the Barbarian. I'm not mad at you. I'm happier eating. You know what I remember, first of all, is Boss still around?

[Jon Bernthal]

Boss is not around. But you remember how great, how special

[Jonathan Bernthal]

was your first dog?

[Jon Bernthal]

He's my first dog. He's a man. And. And Boston, Venice. Remember he had that little sidekick, Venice?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yes.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah. But Boss, you know, was with me. He was on set every day of the Walking Dead. He was on, you know, every set. You know, he crossed the country, like, 50 times, no leash. Wolf of Wall street, he was on set. I ended up doing a play in LA called Small Engine Repair. And then this play went and moved to the Lortel here. And I couldn't do the play here because I had to go do that movie Fury. But Boss was backstage every day when we did that play, and he was just a real huge part of it. My friend John Palano, who's a beautiful playwright, director and actor. Ten years later, we did the movie version of Small Engine Repair in New York. And he said, look. And Boss was, like, on his last legs. Like, they had already given him. They gave him, like, a month to live, and he had already gone a year past that, but he had really bad cancer all through his body. He was 15 years old. But he said, look, Boss, like, needs to be in this movie. So we drove him across country. It was in upstate New York, and he was, like, the most pampered member of the cast. But I tell you this story because right after that, I went on to do, I think, the Sopranos movie in. In. In New York. And Boss went down to D.C. to get him out of New York while shooting the Sopranos. And now he's just. It had been, like, two months since I'd seen him. We had finished this movie. He did such a great job. And. And Lauren and I, we worked until, like, three in the morning one night, and I said, let's go down to D.C. and go see Boss, you know? And we, like, rolled down there and we saw him was so great. We took him to the. The river, he swam. We had this great day together. We went to sleep. And then the next day, Lauren left the house with Bam Bam to go take them running. And I went out and I was just sitting on outside on this rocking chair, and Boss, like, came trotting over to me, and it was like this beautiful day, and it was like he was smiling, and he put his head, like, right on my lap. He really was like my best friend in the world. He Put his head right on my lap and, like, looked at me and wagged his tail and. What's up, dude? I gave him a big kiss, he gave me a kiss. And he just, like, jogged off into the woods. I went upstairs and I got in the shower, and then it hit me, and I was like, oh, man. And he was saying goodbye, and he. I hadn't seen him in two months, and I was just there with that one night. We had that one perfect night together. And then I walked downstairs and I found him, and he. He was gone. And I, like, you know, I was, like, alone in this, like, with the sun and the trees and his. And I just was, like, crying, and I was like. But then I was hit with this, like, overwhelming sense of gratitude. Like, what a great, like, thing we had. All the way to the, like, this guy, he even, like. He even, like, went out.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Even died perfect.

[Jon Bernthal]

Even died perfect. And, like, yeah, that was boss. So rest in peace. He's with me, man. Like, I. That's. Yeah, that dog was like, 101, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now, let's take a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, John tells me why he relates so deeply to his character in the Punisher. And John tells me about his perspective on method acting. Okay, be right back.

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[Jon Bernthal]

How?

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Jon Bernthal]

I, I listened to your episode with Lizzie. Yeah, it was so, it was so great to. I mean, it's like, first of all, this is such a great, it's such a cool way of doing it and I really love the podcast, but, like, I really felt like I was with you guys and I'd like, I, like, I love her so much, man. Like, I, like, I, I, I. She's like one of those people, you know, who. And you too, man, like, that, I think, like, what would they do in this situation? Like, how would they approach this? Like, how would they think about this? And, you know, Lizzie, Lizzy's just like, you know, she, it's, it's not just like she, she, she always, like, with her work, she always surprises me. There's always a different.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Doesn't she always do the coolest.

[Jon Bernthal]

I feel like the minute after, she's like, taste like she, she, she only does great, but it's also like, she does great, but then she, like, there's nothing that she's done in the past that would tell you that she could do this.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jon Bernthal]

And then she does it and then she crushes it. But besides work, she's just like, I don't know, such a, such a deep feeling, deep thinking, fun, kind, good, soulful person. And, And I don't know, I just, I like, I really love her and she was really, you know, when I did get in trouble back in 2009, you know, she, she was really, she really helped me out with something beautiful. You know, she, you know, I had to, like, because I was like, you know, I had issues with, like, getting angry and, like, doing bad shit.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And this was a few years after the class ended.

[Jon Bernthal]

I remember years after the class. But I was like, in that whole thing, you know, like, drinking and I was getting in trouble and all that stuff. And, you know, man, I just had those issues since I was a kid, and it was really somebody that she had me go talk to, you know, really, really was instrumental in helping me with that. And, like, I'm forever indebted to her and I just, I love her and it was just so great to, like, hear you guys. You know, it was beautiful.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

No, I was so excited that she had said yes. And you too. I mean, like, I've been wanting you to do this for a long time.

[Jon Bernthal]

I love.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I mean, I. I think I keep in touch with all the people. Everybody class. Yeah. I mean, I try.

[Jon Bernthal]

How's Lucy?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Lucy's good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She. I saw her.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Lucy Punch came to. I had a birthday party. A 30, 50 birthday or 40. 50. Justin turned 40, I turned 50.

[Jon Bernthal]

Okay.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

We're a decade apart. And she showed up to that. And I don't see her very much, but, like, I always love seeing her. She's always, like, a little sweaty and like. Oh. Oh. She's always, like, pushing her hair aside. She's always, like, a little haggard.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, she's always just run out of petrol on the highway or something.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

You know, she's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She's. She's a mom. Andrea Anders is a mom.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Lizzy Kaplan's a mom. We're dads.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sean McGuire is a dad.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I mean, Jason Ritter's a dad.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We're all dads. We're all parents now.

[Jon Bernthal]

Crazy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All of us are parents.

[Jon Bernthal]

It's crazy.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

It's wild. It was so funny because, like, it was really interesting for me to sort of watch where everyone's careers went afterwards. And, like, you know, I mean, Lizzie was off doing, like, you know, cool J.J. abrams films. And, like, you were doing the Walking Dead, which I love so much. And then, you know, I mean, I then got swept up into show that, like, you know, really, like, huge.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Massive. And it was. That was a very wild ride for me. And I feel like. I do feel like even though the class didn't take off, just that moment of sort of having this experience in Hollywood amongst people I really trusted allowed me to kind of enjoy the. The thing that did take off in a way that I don't know if I would have. If I had not had something that I love that didn't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That didn't.

[Jon Bernthal]

I mean, like, I think about that all the time. I mean, it's kind of like what I was saying about this play. And, like, the lumps. And, like, the lumps are really important, man. Like, they. They really are. And like, we were. We were like. I mean, I didn't know about ratings or, like, how it worked, but I was. I just was like, okay, so what does that mean? What does that mean? So we're up or down? We're like, well, that's down. Downs, bad. You know, like, we were so attuned to it. And what was cool, again was, like, it wasn't just like, wow. We want to keep working. We're actually, like, making money now. We can support ourselves. We're out of this. It's like, we loved each other and we wanted to keep making the show. And we believed in the show. We believed in the relationships. We believed in our characters. We really wanted it to keep going. And it was, like, not going to keep going. You know, there was, like a. There was, like, bumps in the road where it was like, okay, okay, we're going to get a little bit more, but we're not going to get all the way. And, like. Like, I don't know if we're gonna be able to keep doing this. And. And I think about that stuff, especially early in my career, because, you know, you. I don't know whether you went through the same thing, but, like, before the class, there was. For me, there was a few years where it was like, just like lump after lump, you know? I mean, like, everybody who's been doing it has to take the. The door slammed in their face and that whole outsider thing and me feeling like my nose is as big as Long island. And, like, I had these big gumbo. Like, people, like, did not want to, like. Like, get out of here. Ugly.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Like, no.

[Jon Bernthal]

Like, you're not a leading man. You're not a character, dude. You're not. Like, what these. You know, these casting directors being like, no, you know, like, I felt that. And then the class came around, and then I was like, of course. Of course it's gonna. Like, of course it's gonna. You know. And then, like, some sort of happened like that on the Pacific, and then Walking Dead happens, and I'm like, wow, okay, this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. Like, this is the exact character I'm supposed to be playing at the exact time with the exact right cast, with the exact right person at the head of Frank Darabont, who, like, totally sees me, and, like, this is per. And then, boom, it takes off. But then I'm killed, right? Like. And I knew that. I knew going in, like, he wasn't gonna last two seasons. Two seasons. But, like, you know, like, the first season was only six episodes, and it was. But. But.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

But again, God, that character had such an impact.

[Jon Bernthal]

Crazy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I remember the name of the character.

[Jon Bernthal]

It was so great, and it was such a gift. But the reason why I bring it up is because, like, at the time. At the time when the Classic gets canceled, at the time when, like, your role from the Pacific gets changed and doesn't, or at the time when you're like riding high on this unbelievable rocket ship of a show. And then it, like, you. It gets to keep going, but you got to go away. You know, any one of those times. It's exactly what. What we're talking about, you know, doing this play every night. It's like you can either look at that. And I do love that about what we get to do. And I think everybody can probably find this in whatever job they do or whatever they have in their life. But I really try to. I really try to just imprint this on my kids. Is that, like, in any situation, like, you can look at it, you know, through either lens, and you. You don't know how it's going to play out ever. And I think the fine line between this life that we chose of not knowing what's going to come next and the terror of, like, it can all come to an end. And, oh, my gosh, the phone could stop ringing and, oh, my gosh, like, I'm never going to be able to, like, work with these people again. Is such a close cousin. It's so akin to, oh, my God, who knows who's calling tomorrow, right? Who knows who's the next great relationship I'm going to have? Who knows the next thing that I'm going to do that's really got to make me grow. And. And I've just had enough time in the box now to know that it's always too soon to call it. Like, you can't judge it in the moment. And, like, you gotta see. And the lumps end up being really, really big gifts if you look at them. Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I mean, did you ever imagine

[Jonathan Bernthal]

that, like, something like the Punisher would, like, parlay into a few different spinoffs and your own show, and now, didn't you write on the new one?

[Jon Bernthal]

It's the last one. So Eben and I wrote. Wrote this. This sort of standalone bear.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

No way.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah. And it's coming out. Mayfield, we're just gonna drop it. I'm so proud of it. And. And, you know, I've been writing a lot. I did. I wrote that, and then I wrote the. The Punisher thing. And then I have this show that I've been working on that's at fx. That. That. That's about Shreveport, Louisiana. That's, like, my heart. But, like. Yeah, with Punisher, you know, I mean, it's. It's like. Like, you know, it's funny. I never wanted. I never in a million years. Like, the guys. I've said it before, and it's. I. I Just, I just got did this interview with Esquire and I kind of got called out for it. But it was like, you know, I said years ago, like, the guys I really respect have like, all kind of like steered away from the superhero stuff. And I think there is some truth to that. Definitely not across the board, but I think that that was just like a really kind of like, you know, immature, stupid thing to say because, like, there's so many guys that I deeply respect that have done it right. But you know, for me, like, that character and like, who that, like, it was never something that I sought out, like, you know, like wearing a cape and like flying and being able to do all this different. But, like, who that guy is, you know, as just like a father and a husband who lost his family and he's got no superpowers. He's just trained by the United States

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Marine Corps, like, completely organic to. I think, like, you're, dude, it's like,

[Jon Bernthal]

you know, you know, like, what's the worst fear of your life? You know, like, what, what is something that you can't even begin to, to, to think about. And it's that. And it's like, I just have always found, like, you. If you find the most scary thing and you run at it, like, that's where you're going to grow the most as an artist. And I can't believe it. It's really incredible. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm, I'm proud of the, the, the course that we've, we, we. We've taken on it. And, and yeah, it's been a. More than anything, the relationships that I've been able to sort of foster through that character, I'm just really proud of. Yeah.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yeah.

[Jon Bernthal]

And they've just added so much to my life.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Yeah. And I know I mentioned it earlier, but like, I started watching his and hers when you were coming on here, and I was. Now I'm, you know, totally invested. So I'm like, crap, I have to finish this. It's really good. It's really good. I loved it. Yeah, thanks. Talk to me a little bit just before we go. Talk to me about method acting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Are you really a method actor, Jesse?

[Jon Bernthal]

No.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

I read that somewhere.

[Jon Bernthal]

Look, I, I think, and I. So douchey. I think, I think I don't understand

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

anything about method acting.

[Jon Bernthal]

No, man, I, Look, I, I, but, but, you know, like, look, Jesse, if you and me are gonna go play Richie, like, if we're gonna go do Duncan and Richie, right? And like, and like, you, you, you, you, like you and me, whether it's intentional or not, are gonna get into a kind of banter that I think sort of represents our characters. Like we're, we're both gonna try to bring ourselves or who we are that day to the part. And, and, and, and look, I will never be in a situation. Well, hey, call me Frank Castle, right? This my pancake. Like I, you'll never see that. And I'm not. But I think, I think, I think what I do do is I think especially on camera, you know, it's all about like the proximity to, you know, like you got all these people working super hard for just like these few seconds between action and cut. Those seconds are sacred. Like all this time, all this energy, all this money, right? It's like it's all about that time. So just the same way that like, like we wake up in the morning and we're like careful of our vo. Like we are that time when we step on that sacred. So it's like what do you have to do to kind of get in there? And so like in each thing is different. But I will tell you that like, yeah, when I'm playing Frank Castle, like I'm not out like at the discotheque, you know, like I'm not like eating like Chinese food or like, you know, like I'm, I'm especially if I know that that day I have to be in a really, really dark place. Yeah. I'm not seeking out conversation. I'm not. You know, and, and look, there's times where I've gone really extreme with it. If that's what kind of like the park calls for, if that's what the movie calls for. And I think if there's an infrastructure in place, like when I did that movie Fury, the whole movie was designed that way. Like the whole experience was designed to like, psychologically like make no difference between like life, what, what's in life and what's on film. And he wanted like the darkest, most depleted, stripped down versions of us. And you know, and, and I'm down to play a lot. Like what, what an opportunity. Wouldn't have to go live on a 75 year old Sherman tank and like do it for real. Like, yeah, like piss and eat in the tank. Like when else am I ever gonna have that experience? And, and it's not like what I find confusing about method acting and people who like take it, I think a bit, little bit too far is it can be really loud. I think a lot of it sometimes is like kind of telegraphing like See how hard I'm working? What'd you do? I did 100 push ups before this scene. How many did you do? Like, and I think that that is kind of absurd and because I think at the end of the day, like, if your is making any, at the end of the day, we always just got to remember that we're human beings like that. Like, I remember Cherry Jones spoke at. At art when I was leaving, and she said, you know, the three most important things about being an actor is always live within your means. You know, don't get a big paycheck and go spend it. I don't know if I followed that that well. Never let your personal happiness and your career success be related. Like, keep them different. And I think. I think I would imagine that both of us have been able to, like, do a pretty good job with that. You know, just the way that we were raised and the way that we live our lives. And the third one is to always remember it's all about the people that you meet along the way. Like, at the end of the day, it's the relationships. It's like, that's the true gift of this thing. And I think whatever your methodology is, it's got to be inclusive. It can't be like, I never want to put a wall between you and me, and I never want my process to impinge on yours. And if you have a process and I can be a part of that, like, let's roll.

[Canva Announcer]

Like, let's.

[Jon Bernthal]

Let's see. I think ensemble. And the other person is always more important than, you know, the self. And that's where you get stuff that's like, two people can always do something more special than one.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

No, I really tell that.

[Jon Bernthal]

So. Yeah, yeah. Dude, I'm not a psychopath. Well, no, I mean, I'm my own guy. You know what I mean?

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Like, you are just the right amount of psychopath. Thank you, buddy.

[Jon Bernthal]

Just.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And I love every morsel of it. Thank you. I really appreciate you doing this. Are you kidding?

[Jon Bernthal]

I love spending the time with you, man.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

Well, I would like to have done this without a whole setup.

[Jon Bernthal]

They're not. We'll do it again. We'll do you mother. We'll do it again. I got so much to ask you.

[Jonathan Bernthal]

And there's more to talk about.

[Jon Bernthal]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Lumay in Manhattan's West Village. Next week on Dinners on Me. You know her from Desperate Housewives, the Lincoln Lawyer, and only murderers in the building. It's Eva Longoria. We'll get into her sharp instincts both in front of and behind the camera, the journey from modeling to breakout roles to producer and director, and how she's redefined what it means to be a powerhouse in Hollywood. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hansdale Chic composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

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During Memorial Day at Lowe's Shop Household must haves for less save $80 on a char broil performance series four burner grill to chef up something special plus get up to 45% off select major appliances to keep things fresh. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's Lowe's. We help you save valid through 527 while supplies last selection varies by location. See lowe's.com for details.

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