Josh Radnor — on reconciling with HIMYM’s Ted Mosby, marriage, and side effects of fame

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode: Josh Radnor — On Reconciling with HIMYM’s Ted Mosby, Marriage, and Side Effects of Fame

Release Date: September 9, 2025
Location: Evelina, Fort Greene, Brooklyn

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, heartfelt dinner conversation between host Jesse Tyler Ferguson and actor/director Josh Radnor, best known for his role as Ted Mosby on How I Met Your Mother, and co-host of the How We Made Your Mother rewatch podcast. Together, they explore the impact of iconic sitcom stardom, the complex emotions around being closely associated with a single character, transitions in adulthood, marriage later in life, and the lasting power of fan connection. The meal serves as a perfect backdrop as they discuss the joys and shadows of fame, personal growth, and the healing that can come from re-examining the past with new eyes.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sharing a Neighborhood, Breaking Bread, and Setting the Scene

• Jesse and Josh reminisce about Fort Greene:
  • Both lived in the neighborhood over 15 years ago, bringing a sense of homecoming to the conversation.
  • Josh is a regular at Evelina, underscoring the grounded, community vibe.
  • [03:00] Jesse jokes about biking in from Manhattan—“I rode a city bike here today... This is the neighborhood I lived in 15 years ago before I ever left New York to go to Los Angeles to become a TV host icon.”
• Dining selections spark nostalgia and casual ease.

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2. The Milestone of Turning 50, Transitions, and Melancholy

• Josh opens up about being in a reflective phase as he turns 50, channeling both gratitude and “a little melancholy” about endings and new chapters
  • [07:28] “I got my Equity card doing the Delacorte Theater when I was 21 years old... it definitely feels like it's marking the end of a chapter.”
  • Discusses the poignancy of performing in New York as a bookend to his acting journey.
• Aging and time:
  • [08:13] “Being this age is, like, really fascinating. I felt like I had gotten very used to being young, and now... I'm not young... just this weird middle.”

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3. Marriage Later in Life—A Reimagining of Self

• Both share how marriage reframes time and priorities.
  • [09:13] Josh: “Marriage has been a whole, like, reconception of myself. And it's been mostly, like, completely delightful. But I think I was afraid of being answerable to someone, like, my time.”
  • The benefit of marrying older: Josh references Alain De Botton’s take that “your insanity is your own”—you can own your stuff and not blame a partner.
  • [10:22] “At my age, I could go, 'Just to warn you, some days I get a little funky and blue… it's not you.' If you're younger…you might be like, ‘Why are you making me sad?’”

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4. Reconciling with Ted Mosby and Navigating Fame

The Duality of Hit Sitcom Stardom

• Complex Relationship with a Defining Role:
  • Jesse commends Josh for his honest discussions about the “complications” of HIMYM fame.
    • [15:17] “You've had a really lovely balance of appreciation for the opportunity, but also deep honesty with how it's made you feel. And I found that all extremely refreshing.”
  • Josh articulates the shadow side of success.
    • [16:35] “Everything has, like, a tax on it, or, like, a little bit of a shadow. Nothing is purely good, purely bad... if you get a win in this area, there's going to be a little tax in another.”
• The Strangeness and Privilege of Living in the Spotlight:
  • [21:44] “I have a friend who says showbiz is literally like, it's like a prison spotlight... sometimes it just lands on you. And when it lands on you, just make sure you're doing good work.”

Launching the How We Made Your Mother Rewatch Podcast

• The idea for the rewatch podcast sprang from his wife (a psychologist) having never seen the show.
  • [18:32] “She wanted to watch the show… it had been 20 years… so I called Craig Thomas: ‘Do you want to do something a little more formal… and have some conversations on the record about this strange time in our lives?’”
• Watching with Distance and Compassion:
  • Now, Josh finds he can see his work and the show with affection, rather than with the self-criticism he felt during original filming.
    • [19:10] “Now I'm watching it with some distance and some… compassion for myself… whatever boot I had on my own neck around it has kind of released.”
    • Shares Paul McCartney's analogy about making peace with one’s legacy: “When people say, 'I'm such a fan of the Beatles,' he says, 'I am, too.’”

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5. Crafting a Bigger Career, Ambition, and the Theater as “Cathedral”

• Josh reflects on misleading himself about early ambitions:
  • [28:11] “For years, I told a story about myself that I realized was a bit of a lie… I wanted to be a theater actor in New York… turns out I actually was envisioning a bigger career.”
• The importance of ambition, and the sense of pride in fulfilling his younger self’s journaled wishes for a TV hit and artistic variety.
  • [30:00] “I wanted a good career… I wanted to be on a primetime show. I want it to be generationally, like, defining… and I want to enjoy it. Because it took me awhile to learn how to enjoy it.”
• HIMYM’s slow burn to hit status, contrasted with the instant rocket of Friends; Jesse’s own “false start” with The Class before the landslide success of Modern Family.

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6. The Emotional Aftermath and Side Effects of Fame

• Being Recognized as “Ted” vs. “Josh”:

  • [43:26] “I’m a lot chiller with people who call me Josh than people who call me Ted… I’m glad you like it... but just do me the courtesy.”

• Fan Interactions—Profound and Challenging:

  • The tension of managing personal boundaries versus gratitude.
    • [44:05] Jesse describes the difficulty in public: “If I start [taking photos], it's going to turn to… I told this person… if I take a photo with you, I have to take a picture with all these other people.”
  • [45:58] “Some fan interactions are incredibly cool, incredibly meaningful… but the thing I don't like is when you feel like you're literally objective… you might as well be a cutout mannequin.”
  • Jesse and Josh agree the most powerful fan connections don’t end with a photo but a memory shared.
    • [46:11] Jesse: “Someone telling me a story about how they watched Modern Family with their mother who was dying of cancer… There's never a photo at the end of these experiences.”

• The Longevity and Reach of TV Characters:

  • [41:12] Jesse recalls being brought to tears by a fan letter Josh shared: “A 17-year-old kid… talks about how he just finished watching the series for the third time and he cried for the third time.”
  • Josh marvels at “male vulnerability” being rare on network TV in 2005, and the character’s global resonance—even with those far removed from his type.

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7. Finding Meaning Beyond Success

• After achieving “the thing” (hit show, fame), what next?
  • [36:34] “I thought the thing would save me—didn't save me. In fact, it gave me new problems… Then I really had to get on with the business of, like, what really will bring meaning to my life.”
  • His journey led him further into storytelling, creative work, and “deeper spiritual journey”—including ayahuasca.

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8. Remembering Friends Lost, and the Bonds of Theater

• Discussing the passing of friend and Broadway actor Gavin Creel, and the impact of loss.
  • [49:22] “When I saw the news, I had to read it, like, five times… loved that guy so much… there was no, like, duplicitous—his public and private face were the same… So goddamn talented, so effortlessly sparkly.”
  • The unique intensity of theater bonds: “It must… be like how military people bond… you're in the trenches together, and you get close so fast.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the “tax” of fame:

  “Everything has, like, a tax on it, or, like, a little bit of a shadow. Nothing is purely good, purely bad.”
  —Josh Radnor [16:35]

• On making peace with your legacy:

  “Paul McCartney was… eclipsed by [the Beatles]… finally he just made some peace with it. And when people say, ‘I'm such a fan of the Beatles,’ he says, ‘I am, too.’ You know? And I find that there's something so tender about that.”
  —Josh Radnor [19:10]

• On aging and self-awareness in marriage:

  “If you get married very young, you might blame your partner for things that when you're otherwise older… you can go, ‘Just to warn you, some days I get a little funky and blue. It's not you.’”
  —Josh Radnor [10:22]

• On fan impact:

  “You forget that, like, those things you're doing in a kind of moldy sound stage on the Fox lot are, like, getting beamed out all over the world and might be the source—the lone source—of lightness or laughter or inspiration in people's lives.”
  —Josh Radnor [47:52]

• On growth and reflection:

  “You realize every five years… what an asshole you were five years ago… if you're growing and evolving, it should make you blush a little bit.”
  —Josh Radnor [52:05]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening, Setting the Scene/Evelina and Old Neighborhood: 03:00–05:07
• Reflections on Turning 50, Melancholy, and Changing Perspectives: 07:28–08:28
• Marriage & Aging, Self-Knowledge, and the Benefit of Marrying Later: 08:28–10:36
• Honest Reflections on How I Met Your Mother Fame: 14:09–17:49
• Enter Rewatch Podcast—Reconciling with the Past, Healing: 18:32–21:07
• Ambition, Early Career, and Theater Roots: 27:10–31:12
• Fame, Fan Encounters, and Protecting Boundaries: 43:26–47:52
• Losing Gavin Creel, The Bonds of Theater: 48:14–51:18
• Value of Revisiting the Past with Compassion: 52:05–52:42

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Tone and Atmosphere

Warm, slightly wistful, always candid: The episode's tone is intimate and honest, with both Jesse and Josh generously sharing vulnerabilities, wisdom, wistfulness, and plenty of laughter. The setting—a favorite Brooklyn bistro—reinforces the sense of comfort and nostalgia, allowing for genuine connection and reflection.

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For Listeners Who Haven't Tuned In

This episode is perfect for listeners interested in the lived reality behind beloved TV: the joys, insecurities, anxieties, and growth that come with being part of the cultural fabric. Whether you’re a longtime HIMYM or Modern Family fan, someone contemplating life’s chapters, or a creative seeking inspiration about surviving the spotlight, this conversation is rich, poignant, and often unexpectedly funny—like, well, a really great dinner with old friends.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes have people with British accents right now. It's amazing here.

[Josh Radnor]

I love it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Josh Radnor]

Okay?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And since 2022, Fiji's water's 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made with 100% recycled plastic. So whether I'm backstage at home with the kids or planning our podcast recording, I know I'm hydrating the earth's finest way. Fiji Water. It's Earth's finest water. Hi, it's Jesse today on the show.

[Josh Radnor]

You know him as Ted Mosby on How I Met yout Mother and the co host of the Rewatch podcast, How We Made youe Mother.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's Josh Radner.

[Josh Radnor]

I have a friend who says showbiz is literally like. It's like a prison spotlight, like, trying to catch, you know, the escapees.

That's a great metaphor.

And he said, sometimes it just lands on you. And he said, when it lands on you, just make sure you're doing good work.

This is Dinner's on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. You guys, I rode a city bike here today. I came in from Manhattan over the Manhattan Bridge into Fort Greene, which happens to be my old neighborhood. This is the neighborhood I lived in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

15 years ago, before I ever left.

[Josh Radnor]

New York to go to Los Angeles to become a TV host icon.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now this is a neighborhood I lived.

[Josh Radnor]

In, and it's so exciting to be.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Back in this area, in this restaurant.

[Josh Radnor]

That I actually have not been in and probably over 15 years. I used to come here all the time. I am here to talk with my friend Josh Radner, and we have so much to talk about. We obviously both share history and the fact that we were on a huge.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sitcom for a very long time, and.

[Josh Radnor]

We are very known as certain people to a large majority of the population. I'm very excited to talk to him about those years on How I Met yout Mother, but also about his Rewatch podcast, How We Made youe Mother, which he just started doing. I'm sitting at Evelina in Fort Greene. It's a spot that feels like a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Cozy European bistro teleported straight to Brooklyn.

[Josh Radnor]

The vibe is warm, it's inviting. It makes you want to linger over a glass of wine or maybe one of their Shakespearean cocktails that they have here that I've heard so much about. And maybe talk about things that you didn't plan to talk about, which is exactly my plan with my guest, Josh Radner. After all, you know, many of How I Met yout Mother's iconic scenes happened over drinks and snacks at McLaren's Pub, which is a fictional New York City hangout. So what better way to chat with Josh over a meal at an actual New York hangout, Evelina in Fort Greene. And honestly, I think Evelina could give McLaren's Pub Food a run for its money. I am looking at the bucatini with aged ricotta. I've actually had the bavette steak with hazelnut romesco. It's delicious.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I think I might add the.

[Josh Radnor]

Peach salad with stracciatella Maybe add some grilled chicken to that. Okay, I'm officially salivating.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Let's get to the conversation.

[Josh Radnor]

I was at the opening of Twelfth Night, and you were so. Goddamn, can we say. Yeah, goddamn funny.

Fucking funny.

You really were hilarious. And my wife wanted me to tell you that just everything you did made her laugh.

I mean, truly, she was laughing, and you know this. But opening night audiences can sometimes be dreadful.

The worst, actually.

The worst. Truly.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And you are all great.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Are you having fun doing it?

I'm having a ball. I'm having a lot of melancholy around it, too, because actually, today is my.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi.

[Josh Radnor]

How are you? Good.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

How are you?

[Josh Radnor]

I'm good. Thanks for letting us do this here.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You're a regular, right, Josh?

I'm a regular. I live half a block that way.

Great. We're going to. He's here all the time, I assume.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've been here, but I used to.

[Josh Radnor]

Live a block away on Lafayette.

No way.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I love that.

You probably already know what you.

Can I get an Americano with some half and half? Y. Yeah, Great. Thanks.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'll do.

[Josh Radnor]

I do want some coffee. I'm going to do, like, a cortado. Like, not like a cortado. Literally, a cortado.

[Restaurant Staff]

Yes. Amazing. In terms of breakfast, I mean, the pancakes are delicious. The omelette's amazing.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Restaurant Staff]

Kind of what we do here is we make a lot of our stuff in house and just do, like, seasonal French ingredients. So, like, the stracciatela cheese on the omelette is super fresh. We homemade. Our sourdough bread, but. Yeah. And then lunch menu items.

[Josh Radnor]

Thank you.

[Restaurant Staff]

The peach salad's delicious. Peaches are in season, so it's with, like, zucchini.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, it's very good if you want a pasta. The pappardelli is really.

[Restaurant Staff]

Yeah. And all of our pastas are made in house also. You really can't go wrong with any of them. But, yeah, our pappardelli is definitely the most popular. Super.

[Josh Radnor]

I definitely want to actually do a peach salad.

[Restaurant Staff]

Yeah, it's really good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is that. Is that a.

[Josh Radnor]

A meal, or should I get something else? Is that.

Would you.

[Restaurant Staff]

How hungry are you?

[Josh Radnor]

Kind of hungry.

[Restaurant Staff]

Yeah. I mean, if you want it. Sometimes people like to do, like, a side of grilled chicken or something and add it to the salad.

[Josh Radnor]

That's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna do that.

[Restaurant Staff]

I like that.

[Josh Radnor]

That's what I'm doing. I did it.

Can you add chicken to the grain bowl?

[Restaurant Staff]

Yeah, of course.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Let me do that. You can leave off the egg. No, sorry. I want the steak. Yeah, I want the steak. No potatoes. Can you double the broccolini?

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Awesome.

No, I was gonna say I'm a little melancholy around this job because. Well, for lots of reasons. One of them is I'm turning 50 this year, and I got my Equity card doing the Delacorte Theater when I was 21 years old.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I'm happy with, you know, being a part of this play in New York. It feels very. I don't know, I feel. I feel very. I feel very blessed that I was chosen to be a part of it. And I think that there's a reason why I get to be a part of this play, because I think it's. It does. It definitely feels like it's marking the end of.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know, a chapter.

Well, also, 50 will do that to you.

Well, I think that's the big thing for me.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Being this age is, like, really fascinating. Like, I felt like I had gotten very used to being young, and now that I'm. I don't think I'm old, but I'm not young. It's just this weird middle. There are these middle years that are really strange.

Yeah. It's interesting. And, like, the thing you said about, you know, just economy of time and, like, really making sure that what you were doing with your time and your energy is something that feels worthy is. Is. Is. It's an interesting exercise for me. Like, I. It's something I haven't had to do until kids, and I think, you know, even. Well, I guess even, like, getting married, I feel like there was, you know, the minute you sort of bring someone else into your life in a really meaningful way like that you have to, you know, really weigh how your choices are affecting them. I mean, you're recently married. You probably are feeling a lot of the same as well. I mean, it's just been a very interesting transitional.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Yeah. I mean, marriage has been a whole, like, reconception of myself.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, and it's been mostly, like, completely delightful. But I think I was afraid of being answerable to someone, like, my time. Like, I got very used to my time being mine, but also, like, getting.

Married at what, 49.

I got married at 49. Yeah.

I mean, so much of your life has happened. I mean, totally.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You really.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, get stuck in your ways and, like, in a. And not a bad way, like, but you become engroved and, like, you know.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you know Alain De Baton. Have you heard any of his? Like, he's a Swiss philosopher, but he gave a great TED Talk. It was called why you will marry the wrong person. And he does say there's a benefit. I don't know if he says this in his talk, but he says there's a benefit to getting partnering up a little bit older. And one of them is, you know, your insanity is your own. So, like, if you get married very young, you might blame your partner for things that when you're otherwise older, like, Like. Like, at my age, I could go. Just to warn you, some days I get a little funky and blue.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

It's not you. Right. But if you're younger and you have. You don't have enough evidence that, like, that's what happens to me on Sundays. You might be like, why are you driving me crazy? Why are you making me sad? Right. Like, you can own your own stuff a little bit more when you get older.

Yeah. It's just familiarity with who you are.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Josh discusses the highs and lows of working in an ensemble cast and shares his wife's reaction to watching How I Met yout Mother for the first time. Okay, be right back. You know how much I love food, and lately I've been obsessed with this one thing from Boar's Head Sweet Bees Honey barbecue glazed chicken breast. The name alone makes me hungry.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, it's so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's honey drizzled and barbecue sizzled. And honestly, it tastes exactly like that sounds. It's slow roasted, layered with this proprietary glaze that has wildflower honey and a hickory smoke, plus a dry rub with smoked paprika and garlic. It's got that sweet and smoky balance that reminds me of a great barbecue joint. But you can get it sliced fresh at your local deli counter. I've been using it in sandwiches at home, sometimes with Boar's Head American cheese, and sometimes just on its own, because.

[Josh Radnor]

It is that good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My kids will literally eat it straight out of the fridge, which, if you're a parent, you know that's a win. So if you're looking to mix up your lunch game or your dinner game, honestly, try Sweet Bees today and experience the flavor of authentic barbecue at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head Sweet Bees Honey Barbecue glazed chicken breast. Honey drizzled and barbecue sizzled. Boar's Head. Committed to crafts since 1905 after a morning Pilates class. I am sweaty. I am tired and I need something that's going to refuel me fast. That's when I head straight to Tropical Smoothie Cafe. Their Peanut paradise smoothie is my go to. It's got 22 grams of protein, it's freshly blended, and it tastes like a vacation in a cup. And if I'm feeling a little extra, one of their tropic bowls always hits the spot. The PB Protein Crunch bowl is loaded with 32 grams of peanut buttery protein. Or I'll go for a mixed berry Greek yogurt bowl topped with fresh strawberries and blueberries. Everything's made to order, it's easy to grab, and you can even order ahead in the app. So you're in and out, just like that Tropical Smoothie Cafe. You're on tropic time now. Hosting dinners on me means I'm often out, whether I'm grabbing sushi with a guest in Los Angeles or traveling to a cozy Italian diner somewhere in New York City. And while I love those conversations, it also means I'm away from home and away from Justin and the kids. That's why we use Simply Safe. I used to think security meant an alarm that went off after someone broke in, but that's honestly too late. Simply Safe is proactive. It helps stop a crime before it starts. Their system uses smart AI powered cameras to spot suspicious activity outside your home, then immediately alerts their professional monitoring agents. Those agents can step in instantly, talking to the person through two way audio, triggering sirens and spotlights, even requesting police dispatch before anyone gets inside. It's real security that lets me focus on my work and my guests and my own life, knowing that my home is covered. Visit SimpliSafe.com Jesse to claim 50% off a new system that's S I M P L-I S A F E.com Jesse there's no safe like Simplisafe. And we're back with more dinners on.

[Josh Radnor]

Me, something I've really related to just as I've been doing my research about you. I mean it's weird because I feel like we're friendly, but we don't. Haven't. We've never spent. We never done this, we've never done that.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, there are also those people in show business that you feel like, forgive the, like you feel like you're in. They're in the same class as you. Like I feel like if we were, if this was high school, like we're in the same grade. Right?

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

Because we kind of started around the same time. We like similar Weird, destabilizing, but cool things happen to us around the same era.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, but anyway, go on. What were you saying?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I was just gonna say I. What I've.

[Josh Radnor]

What I've found a lot of comfort in. As I was researching you, I bet, and just, like, listening to your musings on your time with How I Met yout Mother is how honest you have been about the complications that that was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How complicated that was for you.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it's something you were able to. I don't know, you've really been able.

[Josh Radnor]

To articulate the complications of how, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sort of the duality of how.

[Josh Radnor]

Complicated that is with how, like, also amazing and awesome that is to have a job like that. And I think the way you've spoken about it has always. You've had a really, really lovely balance of both appreciation for the opportunity, but also deep honesty with how it's, you know, made you feel. And I found that all extremely refreshing. And then to know that, you know, I mean, you know, as. As I've been doing this podcast, it started off with, like, me just asking my friends to do it. And, like, you know, I was like, I don't even know what we're gonna talk about. But now that I've been doing it for a while, like, a lot of people come onto this podcast because they have something to talk about. And one of the things that, you know, we want to talk about with you is this. This rewatch podcast that you're doing with How I Met yout Mother. So I. I love that, like, now we're in this moment where you're kind of reclaiming that moment of your life in a different way and reframing it through a podcast that you're sharing with the fans and you're sharing with the people that kind of put you on that pedestal and changed your life in a lot of ways, for good and maybe also for bad. I don't know, maybe not for bad, but, you know, for. For in a way that.

The way I think of it is. Thanks for saying all that, by the way, but I'm. I feel like I'm old enough to understand, like, everything has, like, attacks on it or, like, a little bit of a shadow. Like, nothing is unqualif, like, purely good, purely bad. Like, everything is kind of like an interesting mix. And if you. If you kind of, like, get a win in this area, it's kind of like there's going to be a little tax in another area. Yeah, I don't know. That's the only way I can describe it and what we went through and which we still feel the, the ramifications of, you know, kind of daily is really strange and really special. And also there's very few people you can kind of like talk about the, the deep kind of gray of that thing. You know, it's like, even in like interviews as a cast, like, you all have to love each other, you know, I mean, that's just the truth. Like, no one wants to hear, like they're at each other. They do want to hear that.

Yeah.

You're not gonna say that. And the truth is, if you're on a show for nine, 10 years, you're not at your best every day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No.

[Josh Radnor]

Other people are not at their best every day.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

No.

[Josh Radnor]

You see a lot of life in those people, in yourself, you know, 100%. And, but, but, but you have to kind of like sell it to the public, like, oh, every day is a hoot, you know, like, as if the whole thing is just a blooper reel when that's not being filmed. It's just all the bloopers and stuff. But at the same time, I, I felt like I was on this decade long quest to be like, I'm not that dude. But at the same time, the podcast came up because I got, because I got married. My wife had never seen the show. She'd never seen a single episode. And it's hilarious because she's a real TV watcher, but for some reason that was just one she missed. And it was actually really helpful in getting to know her because she had no mistaken sense of my identity.

Did she know that you were famous?

Yes, yes. And she quickly learned, like, if we were gonna be out or at an airport, people were gonna maybe approach me. And that was something she had to really adapt to. Cause she's a psychologist. Like, she didn't have a public profile to her life, but she wanted to watch the show. And it had been 20 years since it premiered. And I called Greg Thomas, who I remained very dear friends with, one of the creators, and I said, do you want to, I'm going to rewatch the show. Do you want to do something a little more formal and kind of like have some conversations on the record about this strange time in our lives and what it was like and what it meant. And so we've, we've done the first season and I'm, I've actually been really delighted and it's been quite healing for me because I don't know if you went through this, but like, Especially in the early seasons, I was incredibly hard on myself. And I found it. I found myself. I found it hard to watch myself. And now I'm watching it with some distance and some, like, more tenderness and compassion for myself. And I'm like, you were doing a really good job. You were doing a really good job in a really hard role. And it's like, whatever boot I had on my own neck around it has kind of released. And I've just been like, oh, I get why people love this show. I get why they're connected to my character. Like, I've been able to look at it much more compassionately and kind of almost like, I love this thing to compare myself to the Beatles for a moment. But I. Paul McCartney was. I heard this thing that he struggled with the Beatles for a long time and kind of similar. Like, he felt so eclipsed by it, and he wanted to kind of do his own thing and come out from under the shadow of it. And finally he just made some peace with it. And when people say, I'm such a fan of the Beatles, he says, I am, too. You know? And I find that there's something so tender about that. Right.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Like.

[Josh Radnor]

And generous.

Like, generous, like, oh, I love it, too. And also, it was bigger than me.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, I'm not. I couldn't create this global hit show on my own. Like, I needed those four other actors, all the guest stars, all those writers, all the props people, all the scripts. You know, like, everyone. You know, that the one thing we try to do on the show is give people a sense of what the ecosystem of a set is like, and that it's not just us improvising or it's not a documentary. They're not following us around. Highly scripted, many rewrites. The network and studio are weighing in. Like, I want people to understand, like, this is how you make something. Like, this is how we made this thing that you loved so much.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And even I'm learning stuff that I didn't know, like how they arrived to certain bits in the writer's room and how they had all these callbacks and all this stuff. So I've been totally fascinated by it. It's been really fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Has it given you a sense of.

[Josh Radnor]

Nostalgia in a way that.

Not in the way that I want to be back there doing it again, but I'd like. I don't know if you feel this way, but. And it doesn't even have to be a series, but I'd like another thing that is, like, great and watched and beloved like, for sure. I think you can tell actors who are terrified of the spotlight moving elsewhere. And I never wanted to be one of those actors who was like, don't forget about me, you know?

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I have a friend who says showbiz is literally like, it's like a prison spotlight, like trying to catch, you know, the escapees.

That's a great, great metaphor.

And he said sometimes it just lands on you. And he said when it lands on you, just make sure you're doing good work.

That's a great metaphor.

Isn't that so good?

It's so good.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

I love that. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. After the break, Josh reflects on the remarkable journal entry he wrote before his rise to fame. And together we recall fan interactions that brought us to tears. Okay, be right back. Lately, our August calendar has been absolutely packed. Between summer travels, Sunday dinners with friends, chasing our kids around the park, it's busy in the best possible way. And when you're juggling all that and you realize you need to hire someone fast, that's a whole different kind of heat. That's where Indeed comes in. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Instead of waiting around hoping someone sees your post, Indeed's sponsored job puts your listing right at the top for the right candidates. And it works. According to Indeed data, sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed get 45% more applications than non sponsored jobs. One of the things I love about Indeed is how fast the process is. No long term contracts, no subscriptions. You only pay for results. How fast is Indeed in the minute I've been Talking to you, 23 hires are made on Indeed, according to Indeed data worldwide. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed, and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com dinnersonme just go to Indeed.com dinnersonme right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com dinnersonme Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Vacation season is nearly upon us and this year, you know, I'm treating myself to luxe upgrades that I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. Think lightweight loungewear that's perfect for those long haul flights or premium luggage options. The best part? All Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quints cuts out the costs of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quintz only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I just love that. I've been eyeing their expandable Carry On Hard Shell suitcase, which comes in four sizes and a bunch of colors. It's just so nice to be able to get an extra inch of packing space in if I need it. I love options. I also just had a tab open for the Nappa Leather duffel bag, which for under $200 feels like a steal. For your next trip, treat yourself to luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.com JTF for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com JTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com JTF anyone else ever look at their dog's dinner bowl and think, oh buddy, you deserve better than this? I feel that all the time with my two dogs, Sam, my Goldendoodle and Leaf, my tiny but mighty Morkie. I want mealtime to be more than just fuel for them. It should be something exciting. I mean, yes, they do act so excited when I feed them anything, but.

[Josh Radnor]

Sometimes I just think they're faking it, you know?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's why I've been eyeing Nom Nom. Their recipes are gently cooked and actually designed to engage your pup senses with textures, smells and vibrant ingredients that keep things endlessly interesting. They've got six different recipes like Pork Potluck, Chicken Cuisine, Beef Mash, and more. And every one of them is crafted by vet nutritionalists, which gives me real peace of mind. The idea that Salmon Leaf could have meals with premium proteins and vibrant veggies cooked in small batches so the nutrients and textures stay intact. Sounds like something I definitely want them to try. After all, I wouldn't want to eat the same thing day after day. So why should they keep mealtime exciting with Nom Nom available at your local Pet Smart store or Chewy? Learn [e-mail] JTF that's trynom.com JTF and we're back with more dinners on me.

[Josh Radnor]

I love that, you know, the impetus for it is, you know, your wife has never watched, you know, any of the episodes. First of all, I want to know how what she thinks of it.

She's really loving it. There was, I remember there was one episode where she was like, I'm in. Like, like it hooks you emotionally and it's Kind of around episode seven or eight of the first season, you. You can feel it. Like, it. It. It. Like all the things come together, and it's like, oh, this is really quite an emotional journey. She's a binger, though. Like, she likes to sit and watch many episodes, and we're doing one a week, so she's kind of having to be patient in a way she's not used to. But she's excited to watch the second season.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When you were starting off your career.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, where did you.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

You've.

[Josh Radnor]

You've conquered so many different. I don't know if I conquer is the right word, but you've. You have found success and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Traction in.

[Josh Radnor]

So many different facets of this industry, with music and with writing and directing. I love your movies, Josh.

Oh, thanks, man. I'm really. I mean, that's mostly what I'm wanting to do.

Obviously, you're a great director. You're a fantastic writer. I'm in awe of the fact that you have not only written and directed, but also starred in those films.

Yeah, I don't want to do that again.

I was. I can only imagine that much being incredibly difficult.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But when you were starting off your career, did you have a game plan.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Or did you have, like, an idea.

[Josh Radnor]

Of, like, what success looked like? I mean, did you know where you wanted to land? And was. It was what you've created?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is this what you imagined?

[Josh Radnor]

That's such a great question. You know, for years, I told a story about myself that I realized was a bit of a lie.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Okay.

[Josh Radnor]

And the story was I wanted to be a theater actor in New York who, like, did the occasional Law and Order, but was just really committed to the theater above all things. And then I found these journals that I had written and, like, little pep talks to myself, and I actually was envisioning a bigger career, bigger meaning bicoastal, that involved TV and film. Just. Just more varied. I don't mean I think the theater is, like, the best, but I. I did have my eye on the prize a little bit more than I. But I had this story. I think it's. Being from the Midwest is a very, like, don't brag. Don't. You know what I mean? And I've struggled with some of that.

Through my grip again.

Columbus, Ohio. But there's. It's. It's got a kind of tall, poppy thing going. So I think I had to. I felt like I had to disguise my ambition, but I was. I remember when I did my Broadway debut, I took over for Jason Biggs for a couple months in the Graduate, Kathleen Turner. And they wanted me to come back and take over the role. And I told someone, I can't do this because I got to go out to LA and do it, get a hit TV show so I can do all the theater I want.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, I had this idea, and I think some of it was from. Because I went to nyu, to the grad act acting program, and there was this bulletin board, like the alumni board, you know, where they put up, like, what the alumni are doing in the world. Yeah. And, you know, there's reviews and good reviews are highlighted and profiles on people in all these magazines. And I would stare at it. And I was just like, am I going to be on that board? Like, am I going to be up there? You know, because I wanted my training to. To have. Be fruitful.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I wanted. I wanted a good career. So, I don't know. I think that, yes, I wanted to be on a big TV show. I wanted. I even said this to myself, I want to be on a primetime show. I want to be the lead. I want it to be generationally, like, defining. I want the people who created it to have never done a big hit show before because I think it's kind of lightning in a bottle. Like, there were all these weird things that I kind of, like, put on my little wish list that came true years later. I was looking at that and I realized I forgot to say. And I always say this now when I put it in order with the universe. I forgot to say, and I want to enjoy it because it took me a while to learn how to enjoy it.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I was too overwhelmed with, like, how strange and vertigo inducing the whole hit show thing was. And I also don't know. I don't know if you guys felt the. This on Modern Family as much as we did. We didn't feel like we were a hit show until many seasons in. We were a little bit more like on the bubble. And our demo was a slow burn for yourself.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So it wasn't like. Like, Friends was like. I remember it was like episode two. They were international stars.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And it was insane. We didn't have that. And I think that was to our benefit that we didn't have that because we had this slow and steady so we could metabolize more of it. Like in a. I don't remember. What was. What was your hit show ness like?

Well, I mean, it's interesting because I had a kind of a false start with it, because the Class was a script that people were really excited about. I think, you know, David Crane, who was one of the creators of Friends, was our co creator. It was directed by James Burroughs, you know, a hit maker and himself. And James Burroughs told us he. He took the cast of Friends to Las Vegas the night before the show premiered because it was like, this is your last night of anonymity. And he gave them all money to gamble and have fun. He took the cast of Will and Grace to Palm Springs and did a similar thing. So he flew the cast of the Class to Vegas the night before.

I thought you say Sacramento.

Can you imagine?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It just keeps getting lower.

[Josh Radnor]

Albuquerque, Sorry, Reno. That we went to Vegas and he gave us money to gamble and, like, we had a fun dinner and, you know, came back on the Warner Brothers private jet, and it was a whole thing like, tonight's your last night of anonymity. And then the show premiered, and it was. It did fine, but it wasn't a huge hit. And then, you know, the show ended up getting canceled. And, like, I kept my anonymity pretty much intact.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And so I had already had that sort of false start with it.

Right, right.

That when Modern Family happened, I kind of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know, I just.

[Josh Radnor]

It took me by surprise that it was such a. Because it was a pretty big hit right out of the gate. I remember walking into a restaurant and like, shortly after Modern Family premiered, and I was like, yeah, maybe 10 people in the restaurant recognized me and perked up and.

Right.

This was a full restaurant. I was like, oh, that's. That's crazy.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

But, you know, then, like, fast forward three years, I'd walk into a restaurant like that, and like, 99% of the people, even if they hadn't watched the show, would have recognized me. So it. It was certainly faster than I expected, but also somewhat of a slow ramp up.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You also really get. You get very clearly, like, oh, at least then you're like, this is about advertising money. This whole thing is about advertising money and selling things. And you kind of feel like this cog in the capitalist wheel, like, pretty strongly. That's how I felt. But I think that I was more than any other. I was more conflicted about all of that stuff and more, I don't know, queasy or like, I was more uncomfortable than anyone else on my show. I know, you know, Ali, Neal, and Jason had, like, been through the ring around that. I mean, Ali had been on TV and Neil also. They were pros about It. Jason always made me laugh because he. It was like he didn't take any of it seriously. And he would kind of like, he was a clown. Like, if anyone came up to him and they're like, you won't remember this, but. And they would say. He would always go, I do. I do. Yes. And it was like a random thing that he would never remember. Like, he just had fun with it in a way that I was like, I don't think I could do that. It was a little more, like, trickster energy. Like, he just didn't care about that stuff, but he acted like he was caring. It was a really interesting magic trick he was doing. I just run a little more sincere than that. But it kind of, like, I think I worship. I think I. I didn't have, like, a deity or a religion or a theology that was as meaningful to me as theater. Like, theater to me. When I discovered it felt like it was my, like, empty theaters were my cathedrals, you know, I just was so moved by the whole process of people gathering and telling stories in the dark. I just thought it was the coolest thing ever. And it really taught me how to be an emotionally expressive person, because I didn't learn that in my family, you know? So it was like. It saved me in a lot of ways. But then when I got success, I realized that the shoulders of success were not big enough to support what I was actually looking for. So it drove me on, like, a deeper spiritual journey. I started going down to South America and doing ayahuasca, like, every second I could do, you know, fine. And I was just looking for something deeper. But, yeah, I just. I just. I think in some ways, success is really good to happen when you're relatively young, because it disabuses you of the idea that it will save you. So. So if you can get that out of the way. I mean, there's people 60, 70, 80 in Hollywood who never had a run like we had, and they. I don't know. I can't speak for them, but I imagine there's people that thought, well, if my. If I had been on a hit show, like, one of those things would have worked out for me. And I just had to. I had to acknowledge that, like, the thing I thought would save me didn't save me. In fact, it gave me new problems that I didn't foresee. So then I really had to get on with the business of, like, what really will bring meaning to my life, what will really bring me satisfaction? And weirdly, it's Still. It's still storytelling.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, it's not. It's not like I had to throw it all overboard and become a fisherman or something. Like, it's still in the area I had a sense about when I was, like, 16.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

But it's just like, it's. It's. It's got a different fuel to it. It's not like I need the world to love me because I. I didn't feel properly seen or witnessed when I was a kid. Whatever story there is, you know, it's now, like. I don't know. I. I really like telling stories and sharing ideas and things light me up, and I just want to keep doing it, you know, but. But in a different way. Does that make sense?

You. Totally.

Yeah, totally.

And how. I mean, how has it been with 10 years to go back to something.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

And.

[Josh Radnor]

I don't know, like, reunite with the creators and also experience it with, you know, the person you're sharing your life with now?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, are there.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Like, what.

[Josh Radnor]

I guess, what are the things that, like, you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That spark you.

[Josh Radnor]

That spark a lot of joy in you when you're thinking about the show? Like, what are their specific moments? Are there. Are there interactions with the cast?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, I mean, I'm sure for me.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, when I watch an episode of Modern Family, if I happen to see it on tv, I'm not really watching this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm enjoying the show, but what I'm really seeing is, like, that day, Stuff.

[Josh Radnor]

That day, that day, that day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's like I'm. I crash.

[Josh Radnor]

Cut back into that day.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And stuff that I never thought I would have remembered.

[Josh Radnor]

All of a sudden, I remember.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

There's a lot of that. I think the greatest thing, especially what we're doing on the show, and this was an idea I had that I'm really loving, is we open it with, like, a voice note. I was just gonna mention that from, like, a fan. You know, we had on this. This last episode that just. Did you listen to it? The Letter from the trans Person was such a beautiful letter. And I felt like me and Craig's discussion, but especially Craig's kind of stuff, was so beautiful.

Yes.

And I think, like, in some ways, like, we're still telling the story of How I Met yout Mother. It's just like we're adding an additional, like, almost oral history to the whole thing. So we're. I just think Craig's journey around, like, with his son and, like, certain jokes that were on the show that he never thought about before, but also Like, I love that letter. Jesse, I think, was the person's name. But, like. Like, I loved How I Met yout mother, even when it felt like how I. Mother. How I met your mother didn't quite love me. And just how when you're lost and you feel alone, a show about a group of friends in New York City can feel like this fire, like this campfire that you can gather around and warm yourself and hear this story. And it teaches. We've heard from autistic people who are like, how I met your mother taught me about social cues. Like, I didn't understand certain things. Like, there's just this weird way you don't realize you're contributing to culture.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And, you know, you can think, okay, it's a silly sitcom and you can disregard it, but the truth is, like, I don't know what shows you grew up watching, but, like, Family Ties, like, meant a lot to me when I was a kid.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, certain shows meant a lot to me, and they taught me a lot. And maybe some of those lessons were, like, I had to unlearn them.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

There's all these things that the show. Carrie. This. These lessons.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

That I'm, Like, I was a part of that I'm really. I'm grateful to be a part of that. And. And. And they were things I was thinking about as I was going through that. Like, Craig and Carter and I are about the same age. You know, we were around in college around the same time. I love that our show was one of the first shows to parody the 90s. Like, it was just far enough away from the 90s to look at the 90s as a period piece and to kind of, like, make fun of some of those things. And you don't realize that you're living in a period piece when you're living in it. Like, our clothes might seem ridiculous one day.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

I mean, these are timeless classics we're wearing today. But, like, the other thing is, there's something very meta about the meta, meta, meta thing, which is Craig and I are nearing the age where the narrator was when he looked back on this pivotal time in his life. And the pivotal time in our lives was making this show about this fictional guy's pivotal time in his life. So we are now looking back on it with these older, wiser eyes and kind of narrating it for ourselves.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Right.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what I'm saying? It's wild. It's like, a lot of, like, postmodern layers.

Absolutely.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I was just on my ride over Here I was listening to the first episode because I hadn't. I didn't start there. I started farther in of your podcast and I actually was in tears in the last few minutes of it because you read a letter from a 17 year old kid who talks about how he just finished watching the series for the third time and he cried for the third time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And he feels like he needs to.

[Josh Radnor]

Tell you how important the show is to you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And he understands. It seems like he understands that it's.

[Josh Radnor]

A complicated relationship that you have with that period of your life.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it was really moving.

[Josh Radnor]

I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Because you think about a 17 year.

[Josh Radnor]

Old kid that's such a pivotal.

You can feel so alone with these big emotions and then sees a character on TV who has these big emotions who's also the hero. You know, even though Ted was constantly, you know, knocked down and goofy and unbearable sometimes, he's ultimately the hero.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I found that it was really hard sometimes to be 2005 was still like male vulnerability wasn't exactly in vogue then, you know, and there was something about playing a heart on. On your sleeve character who was quick to cry and he. But. But it also lent him so many heroic. He was such a loyal friend and he was an emotional guy. I also feel like I'm delighted by the fact that it's not just urban New Yorkers who like the show. Like, it is a global show. It was like very specific and of its time. But like, I hear from women all the time who say, oh, I relate to Ted so much.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, I get that all the.

Time with Cam and Mitch.

I love it.

Straight couples say, like, my husband's such a Mitch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I find it so incredible to have a character you like, become a cultural shorthand for something.

Yes.

You know?

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I just. I don't know. I. I don't know why I was. I really still. I don't know how much I'm fighting this fight anymore. But it's so clear to me that I was playing a character and I still want that to be honored. Like, I'm. I'm a lot chiller with people who call me Josh than people who call me Ted.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, if you approach me just like honor, like I'm with my wife, it's many years later.

Yeah.

This is my name.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

This is my dog. Like, like to create like some distance. I'm glad you like it. I'll actually talk to you about it because I like it too. But just do me the courtesy.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, do you have any of that?

I mean, I. I remember being in. I think it was. Might have been even after seeing a show in Times Square. I was in. I think I was in Times Square. I was in a very crowded place. And I. Sometimes when I'm in places that I feel like there's too many eyes on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Me, I just say, I can't take a photo.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Because if I start, it's going to turn to yeah. And the thing that really bothered me, though, is I told this person, like, if I take a photo with you, I have to take a picture with all these other people. And they're like, come on. It's, you know, it's. I'm just here for a day. You're the first famous person I've ever seen. Like, and they. I relinquished and I took the picture. And then I was immediately annoyed with myself for not standing up for myself and advocating for myself because I was also trying to get somewhere and have my day. And, like, I wasn't able to do that because.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I felt.

[Josh Radnor]

Then I also felt angry at myself for being angry at the situation because I was like, this is a very. I'm only in this position because I've had success. And like, this.

Oh, my God. It's a very complicated in your head around that kind of thing.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Do you know Steve Martin who has like, cards, he gives. He won't take photos. Do you know about this? He has business cards that he hands out and it says, this is to certify that you met Steve Martin, world famous entertainer, and he was delightful and charming.

That is incredible.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Can we get those made?

We need. You can make those. My friend Seth Godin made those kind of cards for me. Did you use them? No, it was more like he made it seem like it wasn't me.

Right.

It was like, oh, I get this all the time.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know what I mean? But I think it's also. I think Hugh Laurie said something like, he referenced Steve Martin. Like, he said, do people have friends that don't believe them? Like, you need photographic evidence that you met Steve Martin. Like, why can't you just say, I met Steve Martin today. He was really nice. You need to show the photo. I think it's part of also the social media thing. Like, you. And also you take those pictures and you know, they're going up on people's pages. And yeah, it's just a. It's. It's a whole other. It's a hornet's nest of, you know, self consciousness. I mean, you also. You could probably. I don't know if you can think of your head, but, like, some fan interactions are incredibly cool, incredibly meaningful. Meaningful. Yes.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And I would rather. The thing I don't like is when I feel like it sounds like you with this person where you're literally objective. Yes, you are. You might as well be a cutout mannequin.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I will say that the most meaningful.

[Josh Radnor]

Interactions that I've had with people where they will share a story about a coming out experience or I remember someone telling me a story about how they.

Their.

Their mother who was dying of cancer. That was a show they watched together in bed. It's a family. They watch Modern Family together. That was like, what brought them joy in the last moments of their mother's life. There's never a photo at the end.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of these experiences, though.

[Josh Radnor]

No. It's usually just because they have enough. They have enough with that, you know.

And I would have happily taken. By the way, I would have happily taken a picture with them if they wanted that. But, like, it seemed like that was. They just wanted to share that with me and that I always leave those moments completely, first of all, devastated by the fact that something I did was that important to someone. Devastated in a good way.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, and also just so grateful that, you know, that I, I have put something on the world that was able to be a tonic for someone. In a way, it's very powerful.

I met Damien Eccles. Do you know Damien Eccles? He was one of the West Memphis three, Those three kids that were convicted of, like, the satanic murder. It was total false, railroaded. And they, they were on death row for like 20 years. And I, I did an evening with him at Joe's Pub, like a writing kind of evening. And I talked to him backstage and he told me he was a huge fan of the show and he watched it all the time in prison on death row. And I said, can I ask you, like, what was it about the show that you. That you responded to? And he said it was fake enough that it took me away from where I was, into this other land, but it was real enough that it promised me a life I could maybe come back to if I ever got out. And I was just. I was.

Taking your breath away.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And you forget that, like, those things you're doing in a. In a kind of moldy sound stage on the Fox slot are like, getting beamed out all over the world and might be the source, the lone source of, like, lightness or laughter or inspiration. In people's lives. And that, to me, makes the harder days, like, really worth it, you know?

Yeah. I did want to ask you before I let you go. I know that you did the she Loves Me reading with Kelli o'.

Hara.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

And Jane Krakowski is our mutual friend.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yes.

[Josh Radnor]

Also Gavin Creel.

Gavin Creel. The greatest.

The greatest. And I just. You know, I think about him every day. I lost Gap. I mean, I lost my mom around the same time that Gavin passed away. And so it was a very. I don't know, like, having losing someone who was at the end of their life, who I knew was I was gonna lose, and then bookending that with someone who was at the peak of their career and had so much life still was a very. I mean, it was hard for all of us who left Gavin, but it was. It put my mom's passing into perspective in a way that I never. I didn't really expect to. I was just asked. I just want to know if, like, I don't know. Do you have any thoughts about Gavin that.

I mean, I. I didn't know. I mean, it was so fast. I didn't know he was sick.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

So when I saw the news, I. I had to read it, like, five times. I was like, how can this be? Like, it had this surreal. Like, this doesn't feel right. It feels like the universe made him a steak. But I. I loved that guy so much. And he was. You know, when you. There's something about doing theater that feel. It must. I don't want to overstate this, but, like, how military people bond. Like, you're really in the trenches together, and you get close so fast, you know? And I think when I did it, I was still in my, like, let's only talk about ayahuasca phase. And Gavin really wanted to know. He was really curious about that, but I just found him. I remember him being. Seeing me in disgraced. You know, he would just show up. He was just a guy who showed up, and he.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Disgrace.

[Josh Radnor]

Being a play, not a state of mind.

Yes, I was very disgraced. This guy was filled with shame, and he showed up. But I just. I just loved that guy. I just loved that guy. And I. You hear? So, you know, everyone had the same kind of Everyone. I don't want to say this in any way that flattens him, but, like, everyone knew the same guy. Like, his public and his private face were, like, the same. You know, there was no, like, duplicitous, like, he's one way this way, and he's another way. He was just the same with people. And so fucking talented.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Like, so goddamn talented and so effortlessly, like, sparkly and handsome and a great, like, the way he moved on stage. I just. I found him so watchable, and I just found him so delightful. I just loved him. I'm so glad to get to talk about him. I haven't really been able. I haven't talked about him publicly. I mean, I posted about him when he died and everything, but, like, he. He was just the guy you want in your production and in your life.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, incredible.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Really special.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

I'm glad you did this. I love your podcast. I love that you're watching the show that, I mean, I loved. And I think you have so many people, obviously have such a very beautiful relationship with the show, and I think it's really lovely that you're revisiting it with some space and time.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah, I'm.

[Josh Radnor]

And I. I do love the way you disseminate not just the episodes themselves, but sort of like the cultural meaning of, like, what. What this means to watch the show now, what we got wrong, what you got wrong?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What you got right?

[Josh Radnor]

What.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

It's.

[Josh Radnor]

It's.

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

It.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It just feels. It feels very timely, and it's really.

[Josh Radnor]

Refreshing to listen to you all sort of dive into.

Oh, that's nice. I had a line in. In. In Happy. Thank you. More, please. The first film where one of the characters said, you realize every five years, you realize what an asshole you were five years ago.

Yes.

And I think there's something about, like, revisiting, like, when I look back at my younger years or even stuff I wrote or, you know, even stuff no one saw. It's like, if you're growing and evolving, it should make you blush a little bit. You should be like, who said that? Like, that was. What an idiot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

You know, because we're. We're constantly revising ourselves. You know, I think that. I think it's. It's good to revisit those times and say, like, you did okay, kid, you know?

[Restaurant Staff / Supporting Speaker]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

[Josh Radnor]

Well, you did.

Thanks for. Let me know when you rewatch Modern Family. I want to hear what it's like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Evelina in Fort Greene, Brooklyn. Next week on Dinners on Me, you know her as Cora Crowley in Downton abbey. And from 80s and 90s classics like Ordinary People and Ragtime, which earned her an Oscar nomination, it's Elizabeth McGovern. We'll talk about her early days in Hollywood including her childhood BFF who became a celebrated director, her connection with Robert Redford and other Hollywood royalty, and how she feels about Downton Abbey.

[Josh Radnor]

Wrapping up.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale, she composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. You know how much I love food and lately I've been obsessed with this one thing from Boar's Head Sweet Bees a honey barbecue glazed chicken breast. The name alone makes me hungry.

[Josh Radnor]

Oh, it's so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's honey drizzled and barbecue sizzled. And honestly, it tastes exactly like that sounds. It's slow roasted, layered with this proprietary glaze that has wildflower honey and a hickory smoke, plus a dry rub with smoked paprika and garlic. It's got that sweet and smoky balance that reminds me of a great barbecue joint. But you can get it sliced fresh at your local deli counter. I've been using it in sandwiches at home, sometimes with Boar's Head American cheese and sometimes just on its own because.

[Josh Radnor]

It is that good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My kids will literally eat it straight out of the fridge, which, if you're a parent, you know that's a win. So if you're looking to mix up your lunch game or your dinner game, honestly, try Sweet Bees today and experience the flavor of authentic barbecue at your local Boar's Head Deli counter. Boar's Head Sweet Bees Honey Barbecue glazed chicken breast, honey drizzled and barbecue sizzled Boar's Head Committed to crafts since 1905.