JOSHUA JACKSON — on losing his Topanga home and starting over with his daughter

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson Episode: Joshua Jackson — on losing his Topanga home and starting over with his daughter
Release Date: April 22, 2025

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Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of Dinner’s on Me, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with acclaimed actor Joshua Jackson to delve deep into Joshua’s personal journey of loss, resilience, and rebuilding. Filmed at Tatsu Ramen in Los Angeles, the conversation transcends typical celebrity interviews, offering listeners an intimate glimpse into Joshua’s life beyond the spotlight.

Reconnecting and Setting the Scene

Jesse begins by reminiscing about a chance encounter with Joshua at the Emmys, highlighting their longstanding friendship and Joshua’s grounded nature amidst Hollywood’s hustle.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [04:03]: "He's one of those rare Hollywood unicorns who's actually laid back. He's grounded and gives you the vibe that he just helped someone move a couch that morning."

They choose Tatsu Ramen, one of Joshua’s favorite spots, setting a cozy atmosphere for their candid conversation.

Losing His Childhood Home

The core of the episode revolves around Joshua's devastating loss of his childhood home in the Palisades fire. Joshua shares the emotional turmoil of losing a place filled with cherished memories and the significance of that home in his life.

Joshua Jackson [05:13]: "The house itself is my childhood home. Every nook and cranny was infused with some memory or piece of me."

He explains how reclaiming the house from his father symbolized closing unfinished chapters in his life, providing him a foundation to start anew with his daughter.

Emotional Impact and Rebuilding

Joshua discusses the profound impact of the fire on his family, particularly on his young daughter. He emphasizes the importance of transparency and emotional support in helping her navigate the trauma.

Joshua Jackson [15:54]: "She assimilated all the information and it was like, okay, that's what that is. And that's all right."

Jesse commends Joshua for his strength and the powerful lessons of resilience he's imparting to his daughter.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [17:36]: "I'm so moved by the fact that you had this home as a kid, experienced your own trauma, reclaimed the space, and are now guiding your daughter through similar feelings of loss."

Parenthood and Self-Healing

The conversation shifts to the nuances of fatherhood, with Joshua reflecting on how parenting serves as a path to self-healing. He contrasts his own experience with his father's avoidance of adversity.

Joshua Jackson [19:40]: "The experience of fatherhood is self-healing... I have the opportunity to give my daughter the opposite experience, which is like, hey, there are going to be hard things, but you don't run from them."

Jesse relates to this, sharing his own struggles with balancing children's emotional needs and self-preservation.

Career Reflections and Post-Dawson's Creek Journey

Joshua recounts his early career, particularly his time on Dawson's Creek and the pivotal moments that shaped his path. He highlights the challenges of being typecast and his decision to pursue diverse roles to maintain balance and personal fulfillment.

Joshua Jackson [43:07]: "I was 20, coming off a very successful show but looking down the pike of being pigeonholed... I was exhausted and homesick and really needed a break."

He speaks fondly of his transition to theater in London, performing alongside Patrick Stewart, which reignited his passion for acting.

Joshua Jackson [43:53]: "Doing a play with Patrick Stewart... it was like, oh, right. No, this is what I do. This is who I am."

Navigating Modern Television and Current Projects

Joshua delves into his current role in Dr. Odyssey, discussing the modern landscape of television with numerous streaming platforms and the creative freedoms they offer.

Joshua Jackson [46:04]: "Odyssey feels much more like a shiny soap opera where everything's perfect, but we’re not trying to dupe anybody."

He shares anecdotes about the show's production logistics, emphasizing the intentional beauty and professionalism behind every scene.

Enduring Friendships and Support Systems

The episode highlights the strong bonds Joshua maintains with his castmates, likening their relationship to a family that supports each other through life's highs and lows.

Joshua Jackson [38:25]: "These moments in life are unlike any other... there's always that 'I know you' feeling."

Jesse echoes the sentiment, appreciating the authenticity and mutual respect within their Hollywood circles.

Closing Thoughts

As the conversation wraps up, Joshua reflects on his journey of self-discovery, the balance between career and personal life, and the unwavering commitment to being present for his daughter. Their exchange serves as a testament to the strength found in vulnerability and the importance of building meaningful relationships.

Joshua Jackson [52:36]: "I need to find balance... so that when I do get an opportunity to go tell a story, I have something to say."

Jesse expresses his admiration for Joshua's resilience and integrity, underscoring the episode's central themes of loss, healing, and growth.

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Notable Quotes

• Joshua Jackson [07:00]: "The house itself is my childhood home. Every nook and cranny was infused with some memory or piece of me."

• Joshua Jackson [19:40]: "The experience of fatherhood is self-healing... I have the opportunity to give my daughter the opposite experience."

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson [17:36]: "I'm so moved by the fact that you had this home as a kid, experienced your own trauma, reclaimed the space, and are now guiding your daughter through similar feelings of loss."

• Joshua Jackson [43:53]: "Doing a play with Patrick Stewart... it was like, oh, right. No, this is what I do. This is who I am."

• Joshua Jackson [52:36]: "I need to find balance... so that when I do get an opportunity to go tell a story, I have something to say."

Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me transcends typical celebrity interviews by offering a raw and authentic conversation about personal loss, resilience, and the complexities of fatherhood. Joshua Jackson’s openness provides listeners with profound insights into overcoming adversity and the transformative power of family and self-discovery.

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Produced by Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm here in London, knee deep in rehearsals for Here We Are at the National Theater, the late, great Stephen Sondheim's final musical. And it's been an incredible experience so far. But between the long days of learning lyrics and blocking scenes, I've come to appreciate a good system that makes everything run smoothly. Like Airbnb's co hosting feature. Now, if you're a host and you're juggling life like I am right now, a local co host can handle the details while you focus on your big projects. They can manage guest communication, check ins, and everything in between. So whether you're hosting while traveling or simply need some help, you can rest easy knowing someone reliable is looking after your place. And the best part? These co hosts are local pros who know your area inside and out, ensuring your guests have an unforgettable stay. And you can focus on what matters most. So whether you're looking to host or need a hand while you're away, find a co [e-mail] host this episode of Dinner's on Me is brought to you by Huggies, snug and dry. As a dad of two little ones, Beckett, who's almost five, and Sully, who's just over two, I've changed more diapers than I thought was humanly possible on a floor of a restaurant bathroom. Yeah, I've been there in the backseat of a car. Oh, yeah, that's like our favorite place to do it. Once in an airplane seat. That was my proudest moment. Also not the easiest to do. Now, I'm sure any parents listening agree. When you find a diaper that actually does its job, you stick with it, right? Experience the unexpected softness and up to 100% leak protection of Huggies snug and dry diapers. So messes stay where they belong. Not on me or my furniture or, heaven forbid, a flight attendant. More parents choose the new Huggies snug and dry softness versus the leading premium diapers. Huggies, we got you, baby. Hi, it's Jesse today on the show. You know him from TV shows like Dawson's Creek, the Affair, and Ryan Murphy's new ME drama, doctor Odyssey. It's Joshua Jackson.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I hear the gong go off.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What does that mean?

[Joshua Jackson]

And I come out of the toilet. And now every executive from the WB has come from every office, everywhere, and is just standing there staring at me and James and Katie and Michelle as we're like, oh, this is where they eat us. I guess this is like, what happens now?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Last year, I was asked to present an award at the Emmys. Now, I hadn't been to the Emmys since Modern Family was last nominated, so walking back into that world felt surreal. Kind of like a college student crashing a high school prom because they were someone else's plus one. I recognized the venue, but not a lot of the faces. The shows were all new. The people were all younger and somehow more beautiful. And I swear, I swear the lighting was crueler. Then Justin and I ran into Joshua Jackson. Now, Josh and I go back a bit. We became friendly after running into each other a bunch during his time on the show the Affair. Fun fact. I originally introduced myself to Josh because Justin wanted to meet him. Justin was and well, still is a huge Dawson's Creek fan. I mean, who isn't a little bit Team Pacey right now? If you know me, you know, I get a little socially weird on red carpets. I never know how to pose. I don't know what to do with my hands. I'm like, do I look campy or should I look like I've. I'm, you know, seeing a falcon in the distance. I don't know. I don't know what to do. But seeing Josh there was such a relief. He's one of those rare Hollywood unicorns who's actually laid back. He's grounded and he gives you the vibe that he just helped someone move a couch that morning. Anyway, I shouldn't have been surprised to see him at the Emmys that year because his face was literally on every billboard in Los Angeles promoting his new show, Dr. Odyssey. Like you couldn't drive 10ft without seeing his handsome, mysterious doctor stare. It was like he'd legally adopted half of Sunset Boulevard. He's coming. He's coming. He's early.

[Joshua Jackson]

Hi, how are you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I brought Joshua Jackson to Tatsu Ramen off Melrose. Although I should say Joshua brought me. Tatsu is one of his go to spots in la and you could tell it because he has his ramen order ready to go. LA has long, long been a battleground for top tier ramen with influences from Tokyo style Shoyu to rich Hakata style tonkotsu. And Tatsu holds its own with its signature bold ramen and customizable bowls. So whether you're a purist craving a silky slow simmered pork broth or a plant based eater looking for a stellar vegan option, Tatsu is a must visit for noodle lovers. There's something so undeniably Comforting about slurping up a steaming bowl of ramen with its rich broth. Now, I'm so glad we picked a cozy L, because as we jump in, Josh has had a difficult few months. He's picking up the pieces after losing his home in the Palisades fire in January. And just a heads up, but I might sound off mic for a minute or two. Of course, my mic battery died right when we got into it. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

[Joshua Jackson]

In ways that I wouldn't have chosen. There's actually a lot of beauty in this thing that's just happened because the house itself is my childhood home. And every nook and cranny, every board of that house was infused with some memory or piece of me. And I'm actually excited now to build a house for my daughter and I that is less burdened by my history and will be the place for her where all of her memories in our life together will be built. That house is where my family lived when my parents were still together. The reason I left is because my parents got divorced. I then bought that house back from the man who had bought it from my father. And I lived in it for all of these years. And I kind of closed all of these loops in my life. One, the first one being the, like, taking away of this thing in the divorce. Second one being just a place for me in the world as, you know, as an actor, you're all over the place, right? And so to actually have, even when I wasn't there, which was a lot of the time to know in the back of my head, like, I have a place to go to, was very necessary. And then it is. It's held everything right. The joys, the sadness, the love, the heartbreak. Everything in my life has in some way been tangentially connected to that place. But the last loop that it closed after my parents got divorced, my father disappeared, essentially. It took a little while, but. But then he was just gone. So the final loop that the house closed for me was I, for the first time, experienced the love of a father in that house. Right. And I experienced it, obviously, from the other side, but in many ways, like, the house gave everything it could possibly give to me. I mean, really, truly. Right. And the opportunity now closing all those loops to start again and have it be her place rather than Dad's place that she lives in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

Is something that I really am liking about that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I mean, it's certainly a great way of looking at something that is kind of insurmountable.

[Joshua Jackson]

I Mean, it is a big problem. Life's gonna be difficult for the next couple years, but what it is, is inarguable. Right. When I first went to go see the houses, the day after it burned down, it was literally still smoldering. Right. I wanted to go see it because I didn't know what my reaction to it was going to be. And so I'm standing in front of this thing and. And, you know, I didn't know. I'm like, am I gonna fall down, cry, tear my hair out, or. And what the experience actually was is, that's not my house. That's just a bunch of shit that burned in a fire because it is reduced to ashes and rubble. Right. And. And there's something liberating about the finality of that. Right? There's. No, it's not. I think if you were in. If I was in a situation where, like, it had been scorched or half the house has been burned or had been smoking, but there's nothing. It is gone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It truly is. It's. It's ash.

[Joshua Jackson]

Gone, gone, gone. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Have you seen anything you recognize?

[Joshua Jackson]

Well, the big thing. So the big thing that I was looking for, the reason that I bought the house, is because of this mural on the wall, this hippie dragon that was painted by my mother's friend for me when I was a kid. And it's what struck up the conversation between me and Arnie, the then owner. And I was hopeful to find a piece of it, and I did in kind of a weird abstraction, a piece of the wing. Something glass had fallen on it and then melted on it. And it preserved it kind of in amber as everything around it burned. So there's a piece of that and that I'm happy to be able to take forward into the other house. The other things, it all looks like it's been through a fire.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I don't know that I want to carry that forward into whatever the new space is going to be.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. So this was a house that was your childhood home. You were born in Vancouver, but you moved to this house in Topanga when you were how old?

[Joshua Jackson]

Two and a half, three years old.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, wow. So it's like, really the house you remember?

[Joshua Jackson]

It's the. Exactly. It's. It's where my brain turned on, so. Where. Where. Or the recording portion of my brain turned on, so. And we didn't live there for that long. But it is all of my simple childhood memories of my parents being together. We had a golden lab. It was that we were out in the country, it was that life. Right. And from that moment forward was the introduction of difficulty, which is parents splitting up and moving quite a bit and then ultimately ending up in Vancouver, which is a better place. I'm happy that we ended up back there. It was a better place for me to be raised. But it always represented, in the years that I wasn't in it, it always represented this kind of idyllic recollection of early childhood. And in the years since I brought it back from him, it has been all of those things. It has been the reclaiming of that power from my father, who kind of snatched it from us. And then, like I said, a place for me to go.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And it has, you know, lived and grown with me over the years. But it is also a place that I bought when I was 20, did the major redesign when I was 25. Like, I probably won't put a circular jet tub in my bat in my bedroom.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is that what you did in a new build?

[Joshua Jackson]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's something a 20 year old would do.

[Joshua Jackson]

Like, you know what I need.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

20 year olds should not be in charge of loops.

[Joshua Jackson]

Absolutely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, absolutely not.

[Joshua Jackson]

Like, I'm amazed. That was the. The worst choice that I made, given all the options on the table.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. It's really incredible that you were able to go back and was it just that one guy who lived in the house between the time your parents left and the time you bought it back?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, and it was a complete accident. The short version of the story is I was in Topanga for a wedding. The day after the wedding with an early childhood friend of mine from that era of my life was like, you know what? I want to go see the old house. Let's go walk across the field. And as we were walking across the field, the guy was standing there, and my friend, God bless him, said, you know, this is my friend Josh's old house. And I called up to him, I was like, I put that sticker in that window when I was a kid. And he said, oh, you mean in the dragon room. And so I'm like, the dragon room? Charging across the field. Get up to the front door because it's Topanga. He said yes to this question, which is like, hey, can I come in and see your house? And he takes me on a tour of the house, which is just like, even his things are in the places that our things were. So it's like a mausoleum to my childhood. And we get to the dragon and I said to him, I can't believe this is still on the wall. And verbatim, he said to me, I knew it meant a lot to somebody and that they were going to come back for it someday. Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's incredible.

[Joshua Jackson]

And then he sold it to me the next day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was he wanting to sell?

[Joshua Jackson]

Nope.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi, guys.

[Joshua Jackson]

Hi.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi. How are you?

[Joshua Jackson]

I'm good. How are you guys doing? Very good. My name is Dautheus. I'll be taking your order today.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You've eaten here before. Do you get the same thing every time you come?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. I'm going to have a bold ramen, side of white rice, and extra noodles.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, wait, I. What did you just get? Because that's not what I saw.

[Joshua Jackson]

I got the spicy ramen.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You got the spicy ramen. I'm gonna do the red ramen.

[Joshua Jackson]

Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And can we get some of the pickled cucumbers?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, for sure. Of course.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Awesome.

[Joshua Jackson]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So. Okay, wait. So the guy was not want. He wasn't even thinking about selling the house and he decided to sell it to you?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. So we ended up spending the rest of the afternoon together. And the bulk of the conversation was he had been told by my father that my mother was this horrible woman and. And was abandoning her children. And he is a Brooklyn dude, son of a single mom, and it bugged him, and so I set him straight. Was like, actually, it's the reverse. And raised by my mom. And at the end of it, just kind of on the spur of the moment. And I'm. I'm 20 years old at this point, right? Just some. And for him, just some dickhead, literally, who walked in off the street.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He didn't know who you were? He didn't know. He's not, as Austin's Creek fan. No.

[Joshua Jackson]

Okay. He was a retired baseball player. He was a pitcher.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, wow.

[Joshua Jackson]

And so at the end, just. I said, hey, man, look, this is going to sound crazy, but, like, if you ever consider selling this house, will you give me a call? Because I don't know if I could afford it, but I'd like to know that I tried. So we exchanged phone numbers and then I left and went back to the. Where the wedding was and told my mom and was like, mom, you never believe what I just did. I was in the old house, and the next morning I'm driving, literally about to get on a plane and go head east back to Dawson's Creek, and I get a call from Arnie. He's like, hey, were you serious about trying to buy this house? And I was like, well, yeah. He goes, well, Is that a possibility? I said, well, the part of my CV that I left out last night is, for the first time in my life, I have money, so maybe, I don't know, what would the price be? And he told me the price. I was like, yeah, I think I can do that. And he goes, okay, it's yours. And he sold it to me the next day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's such a moving story. I really find that story incredibly moving. And the fact that, you know, you do have this opportunity to rebuild after it was taken away from you in the, you know, it just. It's really very moving.

[Joshua Jackson]

The. Again, I wouldn't have chosen any of this, Right. This is not how I would have picked to do a remodel of the house. But there is something in. In the. In that first week, in the shell shock of it. And it was, you know, as you can imagine, hugely stressful. I have a young daughter just trying to, like, I literally had a sweatsuit and a pair of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, talk me through that day. You were at the house, obviously.

[Joshua Jackson]

No. So thankfully I was working. So my last experience of the house, and even more importantly, my daughter's last experience of the house was a normal morning. We got ready for school. It was a beautiful, bright, sunny day. No stress, get her to school. Also, thankfully, that was a custodial transfer day, so her mom was going to be picking her up anyway.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

So I then went to work and the Palisades fire broke out. And over the course of the day, you know, there was the conversation like, josh, do you need to leave? Do you need to leave? And I was like, you know, Palisades in the. In the scheme of things is far enough away from Topanga. And then at like 6 or 7 o'clock, we got the news that it was on the pch and I was like, oh, shit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

So I went to stay at my friend's place and had a neighbor up there who I was in contact with and was watching. There's a fire cam, so I could see. You can't see my house from the fire cam, but I could see her place and a couple neighbors places. And I could see at night just the fire marching up. And then in the morning, I saw the first helicopter they were able to get in the air, actually saved my neighbor's house. I watched it drop like she was just about to be on fire. And then everything dropped. And so for a brief moment, I was like, well, choppers are in the air. It's in the canyon. And then a couple hours later, a friend of mine who was up there sent me a picture saying, man, I'm so sorry it didn't make it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So that's how you found out?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Living in a place like that, you prepare yourself emotionally for this as a possibility.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

And in the moment it is disassociative. Right. It's like it's too enormous a thing to really sink your teeth into. Right. But I found a place to live basically on day one. It took a little while to negotiate, but found a place that's close to her school so life will start to get a little bit more peaceful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My oldest son's about your daughter's age. What does she understand about all this? Has she been able to talk about it?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, I'm astonished at her resiliency in the face of this. So that first week she was with her mom, which is great. And that first week, another one of her mom's friends lost his place. So the concept was introduced to her of loss, that this was a possibility. So I think she had the general sense that something was up. And then when she came back, you know, I was very stressed about telling her. And when she came back, so I went, picked her up from her mom's, I brought her back to the new place and said, you know, this is where we're going to be living. But I do have something I need to tell you. The house did burn down and she starts crying as. As one, you know, which is, I think, healthy and over, you know, and then I say, but I just want you to know we're okay, right? Everybody's safe and we have this place to live and daddy found us another. We're going to move into another house that will be our house, but we are going to rebuild and we'll move. She calls Topanga Panga Panga. So we're going to move back to Panga Panga. And also there's nothing about this that's grown up stuff. So any questions you want to ask me, you can ask me and I'll answer anything that you want. And she says, you know what, Daddy? I think when we build a new house, we should build water around it because water doesn't burn. I was like, honey, that's a really good idea. And you know what? We should also build it with dirt around it, because dirt doesn't burn. I said, you know, these are really good ideas and I want to remember them. So I'm going to get my notebook and I want you and I to just sit here and talk about things we should do in the new house. And for the next hour, myself, my mother, my sister, and my daughter just sat and went around in a circle and spitballed. And I have the notes, and that's something I'll probably frame and put up in the new house. She just assimilated all the information and it was like, okay, that's what that is. And that's all right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm just so. I'm not going to let go of this story for a while, but I'm so moved by the fact that you had this home as a kid, experienced your own trauma in a way, with your parents divorcing, reclaimed the space, and now you're ushering your daughter through the same sort of complicated feelings of loss. I think that's really incredibly powerful.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, I agree. One of the things that has really struck me about my experience in that house, it's just this concept of closing loops, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yes, there is going to be pain. Yes, there is going to be loss. Yes, there is trauma. There's no way through this life that you. That this stuff doesn't happen. But you can be okay on both sides. Right? You can feel safe and supported and loved and nurtured and taken care of and all those things. I'm not certain that she'll have really clear memories of this time, but I'm certain that she'll have clear emotional recollection of, like, am I okay? Right. Not the way I would have chosen it. But there is a brutal but beautiful lesson about resiliency for her here. Right. This is a hard thing. Just like her experience of me and Jody's divorce. This is a hard thing that you are not responsible for. Right. This house burning down is a difficult thing that you are not responsible for. And we can't change that. It's gone. But we can choose now how we're going to go about responding to this hard thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it's really incredible. And obviously your kids trauma and emotions are going to always be the first thing you try and protect. But, you know, there also has to be self preservation in that as well. And being able to negotiate both those things and sort of being sandwiched in between them is very hard. I know. I've experienced that myself.

[Joshua Jackson]

Tell me if this experience tracks for you as a dad. I am surpri, and I think somebody had said this to me, but I probably brushed it off or didn't really understand it. I am surprised at how much of the experience of fatherhood is self healing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. Yes.

[Joshua Jackson]

Right. Like the I. I Knew that as a, you know, people like, well, you're really parenting yourself, you're re parenting all these things, but until you're experientially in them, or at least for me, I didn't really get that until, until frankly, you know, some difficult things happen or the divorce happens and it's like, oh, right, you have no prior experience of this for. So for you this is tabula rasa. Right. And it's my job, shared with my ex wife to do everything that we can to like nurture you, cultivate you and give you all the tools that you need in life. But man, it is not lost on me that I'm getting an opportunity to experience a father's love in a way that I never experienced it. And especially in the face of these hard things. Right. My father's, my father's response to difficulty was to run away. Right. And I, instead of doing that, I have the opportunity to give my daughter the opposite experience, which is like, hey, there are going to be hard things, really hard things, but you don't run from them. Right. And you are, you are better off for having faced them.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And that I, that is a, I mean it's an important life lesson, but it is such a tremendously like self healing thing to be able to continue to show up. So I am for sure going to have some kind of emotional collapse here in the next couple weeks as I get through, through work, the move and they just like things get a little bit simpler. But I have been surprised so far. It's been really, these last two months, really these last six months. It's been really difficult times.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean I have a lot of friends who are co parenting right now and going through divorce and heartbreak and it seems like there's a generational thing where I think enough people are recognizing that we have to figure this out. I see a lot more people just trying to figure it out rather than do what your father did, which is, you know, run away from it.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. I think, I mean, particularly for men. Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

In our generation it was always the women who raised the kids.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And the men were kind of optional.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I do think for a lot of men, you know, as I, as I am now a grown man with a child, I have my father, who I never became close with, also passed away and I find myself for the first time with a great deal of sympathy for him because the pain that he must have lived with to have four children in the world and essentially no relationship with any of them. Yeah, it would. Like if my daughter, if I, if I ever did anything to estrange my daughter from myself, I would be same.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think about my kids not wanting to be around me and I mean like that's.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The most devastating thing I could ever imagine.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, exactly. Like I actually can't conceive of it because I can't even. I don't even want to think of the pain that that would be. Right. Regardless of how messy. The divorce is beautiful. The divorce is easy, hard. The co parenting is. By and large I think this generation of dads is. Is understanding. Like I need to be here. It's going to be hard. But this is important and I've got to do this. And for me there's not a. There's no other option. Right. There's not a. It is the great and beautiful purpose of my life.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

It is the single organizing principle of everything that I do over the course of the last four and a half years has been like, how can I be of best service to this developing entity that I have this beautiful and terrible responsibility for too?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Joshua tells me how hanging out at his mom's office after school led to an acting career and a bizarre casting ritual for Dawson's Creek. Okay, be right back. So picture this. You're running a business and suddenly you realize, oh no, you need to hire someone. Like yesterday. You've been there, right? But don't panic. I got you covered. Just use Indeed. Why waste time on other job sites hoping someone notices your post? Indeed's Sponsored Jobs helps you stand out and hire the right person and fast. Here's how it works. Sponsored Jobs bumps your post to the top of the page for all the right candidates. That gets your post in front of the eyes of the people you actually want to hire. Indeed just makes hiring so much easier. I remember a time when finding the right person felt like a full time job in itself. If only I'd used Indeed back then, I could have avoided so much stress and maybe even found time to, I don't know, go to cooking school. Oh, and also, there's no strings attached. With Indeed sponsored Jobs, there are no monthly subscriptions or long term contracts. You only pay for results. Want to know how fast they are? In the time it's taken me to tell you this, 23 hires were made on Indeed. 23. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with.

[Joshua Jackson]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. And your mom was a casting director, is that right?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, well, my mom was a lot of things. Where she ended up was casting director, but she basically was first woman at all of her positions.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Really?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it was because she was involved in the industry that I imagine you were given your first opportunities.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, well, she. I mean, she's actually the reason why I got my first job, which was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I technically was at Mighty Ducks or something.

[Joshua Jackson]

Before that, my first real job, which is crooked hearts in 1989, came from. My mom was a single mom. Her casting assistant, Sandy was a single mom. And so myself and Sandy's son Ryan would often be as kind of latchkey kids in the office. And they were trying to cast the younger. The on camera, younger versions of Pete Berg and Noah Wiley. And after going through round after round after round of professional kid, somebody in the office was like, well, what about those two yahoos?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And so that was literally my first gig. Was it Bass?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right time. That's what they always say, Josh.

[Joshua Jackson]

Exactly. That's how it happens. A little. A little OG Nepo babyism. And.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is that right? You were the very first Nepo baby.

[Joshua Jackson]

And that was it. A few short years later, here we are.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is delicious, by the way.

[Joshua Jackson]

Right. So good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So. But Mighty Ducks was probably the first.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thing that was. Well, people would recognize you from.

[Joshua Jackson]

Definitely the first thing people would recognize me from. And also was the first. I think I worked on Crooked Hearts for a total of like seven days. And it was definitely. I was not in a career mode at that point. And so the producer of that movie, Crooked Hearts, then did a play in Seattle. He did a. A professional adaptation of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. And so I got to go down and play Charlie Bucket. And the casting director from Crooked Hearts, who had since become an agent, came up to see the play. To see another actor in the play and instead decided to sign me up. And so Suddenly I was 13 years old and had an agent at William Morris.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, it was William Morris. Yes, just the biggest agency. Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And then from that started like a quasi real actor's life, you know, semi regular auditions and things like that. And that's where Mighty Ducks came from.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. I feel like if I remember correctly, because I mean, we're roughly. I'm a little older than you, but Mighty Ducks was sort of like a known thing, right? Or was it like, was it a. What was based on. Was it based on.

[Joshua Jackson]

No, no, it's. It's back in the days when you used to make original content.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was original.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, yeah. Steve Brill, the writer. It was his, his brainchild. But then, but then it takes on this, you know, this massive second life when Disney, right, decides to be like, well, we have this ip, so we should buy a hockey team and we'll name it this New Jersey. So the first movie happened. I think if you had like a 6 to 12 year old child at that time, you would have known it. But it probably would have fallen by the wayside had it not been for the fact that then they made the, they bought the NHL franchise and then we became part of the, the franchising of the ip.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. So that's why I'm thinking it was a thing because they did that very well, obviously.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, Disney has a. They're pretty good at that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if I ever told you this. I might have told you in passing at some point, but did you know I auditioned for Dawson's Creek?

[Joshua Jackson]

I did not really for, for the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Role of the film. I don't know if you know this character, Dawson.

[Joshua Jackson]

You know, little known fact. I also auditioned for the role of Dawson. Did you really?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I remember. Listen, I didn't even get a call back. It was like a pre screen before the pre screen. So when I say like people, if they're gonna mistakenly say like, I was like almost offered the role, that's just not true.

[Joshua Jackson]

But, but I think we should start that route. I think, in fact it was between me and James. In fact, I think you turned it down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I did turn it down in order to make room for him. Had other things that I want to do. Like my Bye bye birdie at St. Pius X High School. No, but I remember at the time thinking, oh, that's the one that got away. And I'm like, no, you really were not. I have to remind you, Jesse, you were not in consideration for this part in any real sort of sense of the word.

[Joshua Jackson]

I think I had, like, nine auditions for. I think first for Pacey, then for Dawson, then back to Pacey. And then when I made it to the final, final, final thing, they take you to the Warner Brothers Ranch. I don't even know if this place exists anymore. And the WB had this, like, Quonset hut basically off on the side. And when you walk in, there's a giant gong and a woman at the desk whose job it is to say www B. Every time she answers the phone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I shit you not.

[Joshua Jackson]

And in that room are 35 potential kids who are now, like, put into this Hunger Games moment. And you spend literally the entire day getting called in groups, right? Going like, okay, you two, you four getting taken back to the room. You audition, and then you come out and they've just, like, four people are just gone. And then two people are gone. And so over the course of the day, and I'm talking about an entire day, like, from sun goes down, you are still there. And then the final cut down, I use the washroom and I hear the gong go off.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What does that mean?

[Joshua Jackson]

And I come out of the toilet. And now every executive from the WB has come from every office, everywhere, and is just standing there staring at me and James and Katie and Michelle as we're like, oh, this is where they eat us. I guess this is like, what happens now. They put us in the. In the pot and they're like, congratulations, you just got the job. I didn't actually. I don't even think I knew which role it was that I had finally auditioned for. They were just like, you, you, you, you. And that's how they used to do their castings.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You were the chosen people.

[Joshua Jackson]

If you hit the gong, everybody has to scurry out of the office to get whatever the news is. And I would like to think at some point somebody there was like, this is not great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is weird.

[Joshua Jackson]

This is weird.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's already weird enough.

[Joshua Jackson]

Exactly. This is already uncomfortable. Exactly. Why? Also, let's not make this poor woman say WWWV every time she answers the phone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Oh, my God, it's incredible. Did you have a sense that that was gonna be something that would change your life?

[Joshua Jackson]

I mean, I was too young to have any taste, so I don't. I wouldn't have read it and been like, ooh, this is. This is great. I did not have any concept of, like, well, you might Come back and do this for six years.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

It just did not occur. I remember finishing the pilot, going home. I don't think I thought about it again. I didn't know what upfronts were. I didn't know, like, it just. All of it was just booming circus that goes around.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, for sure.

[Joshua Jackson]

And then I got the call, like, hey, you need to be in North Carolina in 10 days where we're.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, that's the other thing. I mean, you. You did get to sort of then go into a bubble and shoot the show.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. Which was also very, in retrospect, very necessary. We shot the entire first season before a single episode aired, so we had this. Yeah. And. And so you have the core cast, but then all of the, like, people get sent to us every week. And on the weekends, everybody parties together, goes out drinking together, eats together, barbecues together. We're like, okay, now, new episode. What are we going to do today?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

I'm sure there was pressure on somebody at some level, but I had no concept of what it was like. I was astonishingly appreciative of the paycheck and the change that that made in my life. And I really, you know, I always enjoyed acting and performing, and so I was also astonished that I was like, hey, I have. This is. I can. I can do this. This is. I'm being allowed to do this every day. But the broader implications of what was. What could possibly happen never even occurred to me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

If you shot the first full first season in a bubble, from what I remember, it was very popular, like, right away. I mean, the first season was kind of a huge deal.

[Joshua Jackson]

Was on the COVID of Rolling Stone, like, I don't know, four or five months after the show came out. And that was the one was like, huh? Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, you were hosting snl.

[Joshua Jackson]

That came a couple years later, but.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Still, like, it was. It's in the zeitgeist.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah, it was definitely. It was in the zeitgeist. Also. Kevin Williamson was kind of the whole zeitgeist, at least for younger people at that moment, and that his style of rapid fire, very intelligent dialogue was very much the moment. And I remember being actually here at the end of the first season during the off season, and being at the DMV trying to get my California driver's license and having a guy, like, pitch me a script and try to tell me about his Friday night, whatever party I should come to, and just having this reaction of like, I've got to go home. This is not being Vancouver. Yeah. Six months Ago, this man would not have pissed on me if I was on fire. And now I'm, like, getting the full sales pitch and I'm not. I'm not built for that. I don't want that. And so I did. I went home for basically the entire off season and just, like, enjoyed the, you know, the silliness of my youth.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But how old were you when the show started?

[Joshua Jackson]

I was either 18 when we shot the pilot in 19 when we shot the first season, or 19 when we shot the pilot in 20. But I was very young. Yeah, really young. And so had that full off season. And also the show didn't air in Canada yet, so I kind of gave myself this additional bubble of time before coming back into the second season. And then, yeah, it was like there were. It was wild there for.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was also an era. And I know this because I own some of these magazines, but, like, you know, the Teen Beat magazines and like, basically it was like the tabloids, but for kids. And, you know, you would have the covers you'd have to pull out, poster size, the Jonathan Taylor Thomas, you know, you'd have the posters of the NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys and, yes, some.

[Joshua Jackson]

Deeply embarrassing photographs of me from that era, I'm sure.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. So it was like, you know, I guess, you know, we always evolve and like, fame is on a whole other level now with. With social media. But it just felt for me, it was. There was a frenzy around kids that age who were popular. Like, if you were of that generation, you.

[Joshua Jackson]

Well, I think it was the convergence of a couple of things, but before the emergence of a couple other things, because it was the beginning of the Internet era. Right. So kids were. Kids who were. Were able to connect with each other in ways that they had never been before.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm sure there was a Dawson's Creek AOL chat room and you.

[Joshua Jackson]

I might have moderated it, but yeah, but yeah, for sure there was. Right. And so I think that's a. That was a big part of, like, the zeitgeist that we hit. But then also there was, you know, we were. We were coming to the end of a cultural moment. Right. We were coming out of the 90s of the gen X time, and we were at the beginning of the Millennials time. Yeah. We were coming out of the Clinton eras into Bush and then into 9 11. Right. There was a lot. There was this big kind of shift in. In the culture here. Right. That we were a part of. And in the same way that it seems like every generation or even half generation needs to have that show like the show that is for young people that's really talking to the older people, but is actually for the young people that doesn't talk down to them. Right. I think if I look back on the show and I think what is the thing that actually made it successful, it's that Kevin wrote those characters from a place of fellow traveling and love. Right. That they weren't the precocious teen and that, you know, that he wasn't writing stereotypes and archetypes, he was writing kids that he grew up with or, you know, pieces of himself that didn't get to get expressed.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And so it, I, I think it was written from a. Mostly from a non cynical place. Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And we're in a deeply cynical era now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And then.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And then who knows why things. Some things work and take off and, and other things don't. But we definitely caught lightning in a bottle.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. I imagine that you all, I mean, I know the Modern Family cast felt this way, but just when you're a part of something that's so big and so many people are looking at it and you're sort of experiencing this life changing moment together, you bond in a very unique way that I don't think anyone else could possibly penetrate. Like I have to imagine that you and specifically your family, you're, you know, the four stars of that show went through an incredibly intense.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Moment of.

[Joshua Jackson]

It forges.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Bonding.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. And, and even like James is going through. Through something really, truly terrible right now. And the. And I wish I could take credit for this, but I was kind of the absentee partner here. But the girls all got together and were like, we need to do something to help this guy out because this is even whether we talk to each other all the time. Bizzy and Michelle are very, very close and Katie and I are very close. But whether we're. I'm sure it's the same with your cast. It's not a daily call. Sometimes it's not a weekly or a monthly or even a half yearly call. But when you're together, A, there's always that like I know. You know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And B, there is. You know, these moments, like these major moments in life are like other than your husband, there's probably no other people in your life that you are that forged to 100% because you had to go through good and bad and happy and fuck you and don't talk to me and I love you and life changes. And then. Yeah. And then you, you guys ran for nine. Eleven. Fuck.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know.

[Joshua Jackson]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's almost two Dawson's Creek.

[Joshua Jackson]

That is 2000s creeks. Yeah. Holy shit. Wow. That is astonishing. It was a lot, but, yeah, like, everything. Yeah. Life happens, right? Everything that can happen, happens.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love to hear that you all show up for each other. I assume that was the case. Did you see Katie in her play.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I did not, because I was working.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, she was great.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know her, but.

[Joshua Jackson]

And John McGinty, who's in that play, too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. But every time I've met someone who works with her, just speaks so highly of her.

[Joshua Jackson]

She's lovely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I got to meet Michelle on a plane, and she's sweet and busy, a very good friend of mine, so I kind of know Michelle through her. But you are very. It seemed very fortunate to have a group of people that seemed like really good humans, and they've also grown up to be really decent. Decent people, too.

[Joshua Jackson]

I mean, I think it speaks to a part of the reason that the show was successful that you had. And look, I was an absolute lunatic in my late teens and early 20s, and I enjoyed every possible thing I could enjoy and also took my job very seriously and didn't want to be an asshole. And this is also part of being in Wilmington. Right. It's like, we expect you to come here and do this, and then if there's fun to be had on the outside, you can do that, too. But this has to come first, as opposed to. I think when you shoot here, it's like there's all this extraneous noise around you, and. And then you, like, occasionally show up and say some words.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, right.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

It's been. I. I have found myself on Odyssey being like. I'm now the grumpy old man, where cast members will come in and be like, okay, so just so you know, here's how we run this show. Like, you. I want you to have a good time. We have a very good time. It's fast and it's loose, but you have to know your words.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

Like, we're not gonna wait for you. So just. Just know, like, it is professionalism with joy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And so long as you come ready and prepared to play, everybody here will embrace you. But if you don't, this is going to be a hard week. And if that's good, we're good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Josh tells me about figuring out his career post Dawson's Creek and the hilarious production logistics of Dr. Odyssey. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners On Me is brought to you by Nissan. These days it feels like the world and our lives are moving at hyperspeed. I mean, that's why I love doing this podcast. It's a chance to slow down, to truly connect with another human being and to enjoy the feeling of actually being in the present moment. On that note, I am very excited that Dinners On Me is partnering with Nissan because Nissan understands that sometimes the greatest rush comes from not rushing at all. And with the all new Nissan Murano, you can enjoy an unapologetic refuge amidst the daily hustle and bustle of life. The Nissan Murano is not just a vehicle. It's a space where you can take a beat to catch your breath and re energize to be in the present moment. And trust me, this is the moment you'll want to be in and drive in. The Nissan Murano features an elevated modern interior design and a bold new exterior look. Plus, the expansive panoramic moonroof adds tons of natural light to the roomy cabin with massaging leather appointed seats to help melt away the tension of the day and ambient mood lighting with 64 color options to set the vibe just right. What's not to love? So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Dinner's on Me and for reminding us to take a moment and breathe. Learn more about the all new nissan [e-mail] Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features.

[Joshua Jackson]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more Dinners on Me after Dawson's. What did your career look like after that?

[Joshua Jackson]

Back in the day you were a movie person or you were a TV person and if you had the like luck to be on a successful TV show, generally speaking that was your shot, right? And you could maybe pick up work here and there, but this modern era of like 50 streamers and 200 things. So on the one hand I was 20. What was I? 24. Coming off this very successful show but looking down the pike of being a like stuck, you know, pigeonholed as people get. But also I was exhausted and homesick and really needed a break and I wasn't sure if I wanted to be an actor anymore. And it was actually going to London and doing a play with Patrick Stewart. With Patrick Stewart. That through the course of that process and feeling that good fear again.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Joshua Jackson]

I was like, oh, right. No, this is what I do. This is who I am.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which also is. I just want to say it's impressive that I think I. I assume the last time you were on stage before that was in this infamous Seattle. Yes, it had been a minute Willy Wonka. Yeah, yeah. And so then to go from, you know, not really being on stage to then going to the West End with.

[Joshua Jackson]

Patrick Stewart doing mammoth.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Stewart doing mammoth. And what was the play was life in the theater.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is really intimidating.

[Joshua Jackson]

It certainly was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Am I wrong? Am I wrong? I'm thinking that's a two hander play.

[Joshua Jackson]

It's just Jim, Patrick Stewart, two hander, one act.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, well, yeah, I can imagine how that would certainly reinvigorate.

[Joshua Jackson]

Look, the success of Dawson's was amazing. The training ground of doing it every day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And the immediacy of like, yeah, you might get three takes maybe, but today you might get one take. Actually one of my all time favorite pieces of direction, Steve Miner, may he wrestle in peace doing a scene. Steve Miner's directing and he was clearly not happy with something that James was doing. He's like, james, look, you gotta, you gotta have a thought, right? There has to be a thought, an idea to what you're doing here. I mean, look at Josh. He has a thought. It's the wrong thought, but at least it's a thought. And you're hoping that your instincts are good enough to get you through most of it. And then occasionally you sort of apply craft or thought, but most of it is just fly by wire because you're going so fast, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And. And you're tired and yada yada, yada. Whereas when you have a reversal process and you're sitting down and it's particularly on something as particular as Mammut, right. Where you're like, no, that's a period, not a comma. And the breath goes here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

I look back with incredible fondness on Dawson's, but would not want to go back into something like that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

I mean, Odyssey, I guess, is kind of the same way, but I mean, it's a very different thing and I'm in a very different place in my life. But TV as product is a hard thing for me. Right. And there were many years where we as, as a cast were really fighting the. The like this is just a product to get kids to buy stuff. Part of the show. I wouldn't want to do that again. And something like Odyssey, which is very glitzy and glad. But, but I don't think we're trying to dupe anybody. Right? It is, it feels much more like, you know, we're like a very shiny soap opera.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

You come here, hang out, everything's perfect, everybody looks great, the lighting's always amazing. And, you know, we'll do some icky stuff and there'll be a little kissy kissy and then go home happy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's really fun. I, I had dinner with Philip Pu and Steve Pasquale, her husband.

[Joshua Jackson]

That diva.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That diva. Like the day after the show premiered.

[Joshua Jackson]

Okay, interesting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I hadn't seen it yet. And I was like, how did it go? And she goes, it did really, really well. Like connecting, fun. It's easy, it's sexy, it's.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I think that second word is, I mean the fun part is, is really important. But it always, I always fear it sounds like I'm diminishing the show when I say this, but I'm really not. It's easy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

Right. In a time when, when, when Ryan first called me about this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Ryan Murphy.

[Joshua Jackson]

Ryan Murphy first called me about this, one of the things that he said, and I've said this elsewhere, but the, that really was like, oh, man, I would love. This is like we've all been collectively like clenched for four years and I want to make the show that lets people exhale and for where I am in my life and the things that I was going through, I was like, God, that sounds like a joy to me. Right? To go and do front footed dialogue. Right. Where everything's just a little bit too simple and it's all. You always have the right thing to come back with. And sure there's like drama, but it's never like drama.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And. And it results.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Drama's like someone's got a broken dick.

[Joshua Jackson]

Exactly. That poor fella. What a way to get on tv. I know. Yeah, but exact. But exactly. The drama's got Someone's got a broken dick or we kill the. The living Ken doll.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And, and it, and it in a, in a way like, like TV shows from our life when we were kids at, at the 42 and a half minute mark, everybody's happy and everything's good and they'd like just go on about your week. Right. You don't need, you don't need to be taking notes by the time you come back next week. It'll be fine. You'll figure it out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. It's just such complete fantasy. I mean, even the doctor's office or the medical. Yeah. Wing of the ship. It's like the most beautifully lit. It looks like an Abercrombie and Fitch store from, like, 1997. Like, it's just gorgeous.

[Joshua Jackson]

Gorgeous. Everything.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Dim lighting. I'm like, you can't do surgery under this lighting.

[Joshua Jackson]

Oh, but.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, but you can. I just love it. And it's. First of all, the sets are incredible.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. I mean, the sets, the wardrobe, the hair, the makeup. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I'm like, I'm. I'm. You know, people always ask me with Modern Family. People have been in this business for a long time, like, oh, but you must shoot in, like, real houses. And I was like, no, they're all sets. And even when I was watching this, I was like, oh, well, that can't possibly be a set. They must really be out at sea. No, no, it's completely. It looks fantastic.

[Joshua Jackson]

Completely make him up. And also, in a way that is fairly rare these days, like, I haven't worked on a pretty show in a long time. Where the intention. Seriously, like, where the intention was, we're gonna make this look slick and glossy and beautiful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And Ryan, to his great credit, his group of people that he works with over and over and over again, that he has trust with is top notch. And also he has the wherewithal to be to say to Disney, what if?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

What if the. What if it had water slides and the water slides worked?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And they built this beautiful playground for us that is, like, sumptuous. I mean, every. I've never worked on a set where the. Where you sit on the couches and you actually want to sit down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

I mean, seriously, normally it's like, oh, God. And also that the intention is the beauty. Right. That what we're doing, what the story is like, the slickness is part of the story. Right. The doctor always knows just exactly the right thing to do at just the right moment. And the wardrobe. We were just doing a scene the other day and we had a literal on set debate. A church. Yeah, whatever. A church collapses on my character, and I come out of the rubble.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A church.

[Joshua Jackson]

A whole church. It's a longer story.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's a long story. Sure.

[Joshua Jackson]

We've decided to really embrace the religious right. And so I commit an act of sacrilege and I'm punished. But no. And we had a debate of, like, well, how much dust actually gets on Matt and does it mess up his hair? And the answer is not much. And no, it doesn't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, course.

[Joshua Jackson]

I'm literally, like, building collapses on me. And I'm like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love that. Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I'm good to go.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So good.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. It's amazing. It's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's a fun romp and I love it. I'm happy you're on it. I hope it does get us down the season.

[Joshua Jackson]

Me, too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. So you're in the middle of shooting. We're done now. You're done now?

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. Literally last Friday.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How many did you all do?

[Joshua Jackson]

18.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah. Which is also a throwback. We were supposed to do 13. They expanded us to 18, which is nice. But it had been a lot of years since I had done a full season like that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've always. I've always just been very impressed with the way you have reshaped and sort of matured. But also, you've done it in a very. I don't know, not every actor can say that they started off, you know, in the Mighty Ducks in Dawson's Creek and yet so carved out a really interesting career. You're always great.

[Joshua Jackson]

Not always, but thank you. And look, I was years into doing this before I realized I was allowed that I was the type of person that I was allowed to do this. And I think partially because of having my mother's counsel and then also partially because of the. I managed to bump into a lot of good role models early in my career who approached it from the work standpoint rather than, like, you can be famous and have all the. The trappings of this life. And then also the. It's. I'm just not of the personality type, where to be more famous would be more satisfying.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

And I also. I came to the realization at the end of Dawson's, just after I did the play, because I was. I really was burnt out and I really was going through that, like, I don't think I'm any good at this anymore. And then I did the play, and it reignited my fireboat. It also made me realize, like, I can't do this 100% of the time. So I need to find balance, some kind of balance in my life where the other things that I'm doing are filling the well back up so that when I do get an opportunity to go tell a story, I have a little something to say.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I met you, I don't know, over a decade ago, just at various Hollywood thing when I was doing Modern Family. I think when you were in the Affair, Probably. Maybe. But I always enjoy seeing you. I think you're such a cool guy. You're so, like, down to earth. And you feel that when you're around. I just. I feel very comfortable around you. So I'm. I was so excited when you said you wanted to do this, because I know you don't do a lot of. I don't know if you've ever done a podcast, have you?

[Joshua Jackson]

I did one this fall. Last fall.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, see, now you're on the podcast.

[Joshua Jackson]

My podcast. Talking circuit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Joshua Jackson]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm just honored you trusted me with.

[Joshua Jackson]

Well, can I pay you this compliment as well?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure.

[Joshua Jackson]

In many times when you had no reason to be, like, kind or warm or. Or embracing to me, you have always greeted me with warmth, and I really appreciate that, like, genuine warmth. So I am always happy to see you, too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, that's love. The love is mutual, then. And just because of that, Dinner's On Me.

[Joshua Jackson]

Excellent.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Only because of that.

[Joshua Jackson]

It's good that dinner's on you because just like a fucking actor, I didn't bring my wallet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

There you go. This episode of Dinners On Me was recorded at Tatsu Ramen in Los Angeles, California. Next week on Dinner's on Me. You know him from Narcos, Civil War, and most recently from Apple's new show, Dope Thief, it's Wagner Mora. We'll talk about going from journalism to showbiz, improvising Shakespeare with Al Pacino, and so much more. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Behr engineered this episode. Hans Dale, she composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.