KATHRYN HAHN — on improvising in “Step Brothers” and Patti Lupone voice memos

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Episode Featuring Kathryn Hahn

Release Date: December 17, 2024

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Introduction and Setting

In this episode of Dinner’s on Me, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson welcomes renowned actress Kathryn Hahn to share an intimate dinner at Mazal, a family-owned restaurant in Lincoln Heights, California. The ambiance is warm and inviting, with Jesse and Kathryn settling into a meal inspired by Tal Zeit’s family recipes, reflecting a blend of Moroccan, Israeli, and Mediterranean flavors.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (00:24): "Kathryn and I had been trying to make this meal happen for a few months, and by the time our schedules finally aligned, the series had already aired its final episode."

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First Impressions and Early Career

Jesse reminisces about his first encounter with Kathryn Hahn on stage during the revival of the play Boeing Boeing, where she captivated him with her vibrant performance. This initial impression led Jesse to delve deeper into Kathryn’s diverse body of work, appreciating her ability to consistently steal scenes whether portraying an off-center best friend, an unhinged wife, or an unstable coworker.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (00:01 - 02:21): "She was magic. I mean, she was hilarious. Completely original and refreshingly unique. I had never seen her in anything before, so I immediately began digging to find the rest of her work."

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The Dining Experience at Mazal

The conversation seamlessly transitions to the culinary delights at Mazal. Tal Zeit, the owner, discusses the inspiration behind the menu, emphasizing dishes that resonate with his family’s heritage and the love infused into each recipe. Jesse and Kathryn enjoy a variety of vegan and vegetarian dishes, appreciating the homemade feel and the meticulous presentation.

Notable Quote:

Tal Zeit (10:01): "Most of the menu from the beginning is not only stuff that my mom would make for me growing up, but also that her mom from Morocco would cook for her growing up."

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Parenting and Personal Lives

Jesse and Kathryn delve into their personal lives, discussing the joys and challenges of parenting. Kathryn shares humorous anecdotes about her daughters and the unpredictable phases of childhood, while Jesse reflects on raising his two young children and the impact it has on his career and personal aspirations.

Notable Quote:

Kathryn Hahn (03:08): "Our daughter and son, who's 18 and our daughter's 15. Okay, how old are your kids right now?"

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (03:27): "Four and two. The two-year-old just turned two this weekend."

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Kathryn’s Acting Journey and Improvisation

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Kathryn’s acting career, particularly her role in Step Brothers and Agatha All Along. She discusses her approach to improvisation, collaborating with directors like Adam McKay, and the importance of trust and creativity on set. Kathryn highlights memorable improvised moments that have become iconic in her performances.

Notable Quote:

Kathryn Hahn (16:23): "That was our first ad. He suggested it, and I was like, Brilliant."

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Challenges in the Entertainment Industry

Kathryn opens up about the volatility of the entertainment industry, sharing experiences with shows that were abruptly canceled. Both she and Jesse emphasize the emotional toll of such uncertainties and the strategies they employ to manage expectations and maintain their passion for their craft.

Notable Quote:

Kathryn Hahn (27:25): "I think you've experienced this, too. Like anybody in this anything, you know, as soon as your expectations are really high, it's just hard to meet sometimes."

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Disney’s Agatha All Along and Marvel Universe

Kathryn passionately discusses her breakthrough role in Agatha All Along, a Disney series that redefines her career by allowing her to explore a multifaceted character within the Marvel Universe. She expresses excitement over the creative freedom and the unique storytelling approach that the show offers, highlighting its impact on diverse audiences.

Notable Quote:

Kathryn Hahn (33:35): "It really felt like it was just part of the DNA. It's not like it's about anything else, but like it's just a part of what the show is."

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Marriage and Personal Relationships

The conversation shifts to personal relationships, with Jesse and Kathryn sharing insights into their long-term marriages. Kathryn recounts eloping with her husband Ethan to avoid the complexities of traditional weddings, emphasizing the importance of commitment and mutual support in sustaining a successful marriage.

Notable Quote:

Kathryn Hahn (36:24): "We did not want to take that show on the road. And so it kind of worked out. We had big parties in each of our, like, hometowns."

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Grief and Moving Forward

Kathryn touches on the loss of her father, sharing heartfelt reflections on grief and resilience. Jesse offers support and shares his own experiences with loss, underscoring the importance of cherishing memories and embracing the future despite personal hardships.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (39:00): "I saw that you lost your dad in the spring. I'm so sorry."

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Closing Reflections

As the dinner concludes, Jesse and Kathryn reflect on their enduring friendship and the mutual respect they hold for each other’s work and personal lives. They express gratitude for the candid conversations over a shared meal, highlighting the unique bond formed through their professional and personal interactions.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (40:53): "This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Mazal in Lincoln Heights, California. Dinner Is on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions."

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Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers an enriching dialogue between Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Kathryn Hahn, blending professional insights with personal anecdotes. Listeners gain a deeper understanding of Kathryn’s artistic journey, the dynamics of maintaining meaningful relationships in the entertainment industry, and the heartfelt moments that define their lives outside the spotlight.

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Notable Quotes Highlights:

• Initial Impressions: "She was magic... completely original and refreshingly unique." (Jesse Tyler Ferguson, 00:24)
• Improvisation in Acting: "I was like, Brilliant." (Kathryn Hahn, 16:23)
• Marriage Insights: "We did not want to take that show on the road." (Kathryn Hahn, 36:24)

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Thank you for joining us on this episode of Dinner’s on Me. To stay updated with future episodes, subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS on Apple Podcasts for early access and an ad-free experience.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi, it's Jesse. Today on the show. You know her from films like Stepbrothers and Bad Moms. And now the new Disney series Agatha all along it's Kathryn Hahn. I mean, have you heard the term honaissance? Have you heard this?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes, I have. But I was like, you guys, there has been a McConaissance.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I have such vivid memories of the first time I fell in love with Kathryn Hahn. It was seeing her on stage in a revival of the play Boeing Boeing starring Mark Rylance. The play revolved around rylance's character and three airline attendants. Gina Gershon played an Italian, Mary McCormick a German, and Katherine Hahn played an American. She played the part with the optimism and patriotism of a Fourth of July firework. With a wide stance, hands on hips and a huge smile, she was like the emoji of an American before emojis even existed. She was magic. I mean, she was hilarious. Completely original and refreshingly unique. I had never seen her in anything before, so I immediately began digging to find the rest of her work. And it wasn't hard to find. She had made equally bold impressions in a handful of great films, always as the off center best friend or unhinged wife or unstable coworker. Whatever the role was, she was a highlight, never not walking away with the scene. I read once that Paul Rudd compared her to Radiohead, the band, an indie group with a small, passionate following that worked steadily for decades before. And all at once, everyone was listening. I couldn't agree more. That's actually a perfect description of Catherine. And she's continuing to rake in a whole new generation of fans with her knockout performance as Agatha in the Disney series Agatha All Along. Catherine and I had been trying to make this meal happen for a few months, and by the time our schedules finally aligned, the series had already aired its final episode. So I was very excited to share my obsession of the show with my buddy, Kathryn Hahn. I love how I could hear you approaching from a mile away, from so long away.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Just chatting, just looking for boogers. Hi.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I took Catherine to Masal in Lincoln Heights, a family owned restaurant manned by Tal Zeit and his parents. We had a feast of dishes inspired by what Tal's mom packed him for lunch growing up. From tahini and hummus spreads to chimichurri oyster mushrooms, everything tasted like you sat down in someone's home. Everything happens to be vegan or vegetarian. And if it's not clear already, there's a lot of love and care put into masal and you could taste that in each bite of food. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

[Kathryn Hahn]

It looks like I have some sort of disease around my eyes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Does it look like I'm having an allergic reaction?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Not at all.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Also, my daughter took all of my. Listen, this is very important information. My daughter took all of my makeup sponges.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh.

[Kathryn Hahn]

So I used my fingers.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had a makeup.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Can you see?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, no, I can't. I can't.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Okay, good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How old are you? You have two daughters, right?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Our daughter and son, who's 18 and our daughter's 15. Okay, how old are your kids right now?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Four. Four and two. The two year old just turned two this weekend and. Okay, wait, I actually have to get it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

You're in the hot pocket.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm in the hot pocket of it. So there's something going around at their school? Well, the older one's in school, the younger one's not. But it's like this ridiculous cough. Like a dramatic cough. And it's not Covid we tested.

[Kathryn Hahn]

But like, okay, I might have that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, yeah, it's like.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And to the point where it says grabbing water.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

To the point where I'm like, okay, you need to take it down a notch, Beckett. Like, the drama is too much.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Like, Wait, are they all doing it? Is it like everyone like, ah, now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The younger one's doing it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That is so strange.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you remember this phase?

[Kathryn Hahn]

I remember the drama over cutting their nails.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Kathryn Hahn]

It was like, as if I was like slicing off their. Like the drama was so extreme. I also remember when they were potty training and Ethan and I used to call ourselves shit duelists. All the menu. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes. This is Tall, by the way.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes, I know. I met on the coming in. Good to see you again.

[Tal Zeit]

Hunter Mazal here. All vegetarian menu just for you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Left.

[Tal Zeit]

Yeah, just for you, Cash.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh my gosh. This is really incredible looking. I'm glad I came. Very hungry. Perfect.

[Tal Zeit]

You're in the right place for it. Dinner's on him. From what I've heard.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Dinner's on me a couple minutes, but.

[Tal Zeit]

I'll hang out if you have questions.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Okay, thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I love that you're able to just like, eat and talk.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Isn't that great?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I don't care about the microphones anymore. At first I was like, let me be careful now. Screw it. If you hear me eating. You hear me eating.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Fine. If I draw pumice on it, please.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Don'T be mad cute glasses, by the way. I like that we're wearing our readers.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I have to. Have to, I have to. When did it happen for you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I got. It happened like in the last season of Modern Family. And the thing is, every. All the other adults.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Look how handsome you are in your Clark Kent glasses.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Look at you. You're cute.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I love them.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But all the adults were using them, and Ty was the first to use them. And then Sofia started using them. And I was the proud holdout. And the last season I was like, shit. And so I put them on and like they stopped the table read and applauded me. And they're like, okay. I was like, I almost made it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Watch you squinting over the screen. I know. I had to get them. It was like a long same thing. I had, like, it was all readers, readers. And then my kids make fun of me because the font on my phone, Huge. My gosh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So no, we know what's going on. Okay. Obviously we could share things.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, definitely some hummus. Cause that looks fantastic. Sweet potato hummus. I love a grape leaf. God, this all looks good. I love a cheese borax.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is like some of the things that you love and think we should maybe try.

[Tal Zeit]

Definitely known for all the spreads. So we can do like a sampler, like a mezze style thing where you taste all of them.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, yes.

[Tal Zeit]

Yeah, definitely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So we'll add to those.

[Tal Zeit]

Okay, I'll get that started. And I think as far as the mains go, we're definitely doing the bagel. The mushrooms is kind of like a crowd favorite.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I always feel like I'm gonna hate mushrooms and then I eat them and I love them.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Me two.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What's. What's up with us? Like, why aren't we just like going to give over? Let's do the.

[Kathryn Hahn]

There's a fungus among us. Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. Yeah, let's do that.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Perfect. This sounds incredible. Oh, wait. And then do you have any sort of iced tea or anything?

[Tal Zeit]

Should we make a, like a mint lemonade that I can do for you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I would love that. What do you want?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, I'll try your kombucha.

[Tal Zeit]

Kombucha, yeah, absolutely.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Some probiotics for this thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right. All right.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Thank you so much.

[Tal Zeit]

Delicious.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Tal Zeit]

Appreciate it. Be right back.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Very handsome. 32.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Very handsome.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I found out. Yeah, I've already inquired. I don't know why I'm inquiring. I'm married. Happily married.

[Kathryn Hahn]

My grandma would be like, just cause you're on a diet doesn't mean you can't look at the menu.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right. I'm trying to remember. I feel like the first time I really got to talk to you because I've known about you for a very, very long time. And I think. I think I gushed every year when we finally got to hang out a little bit. But I feel like the first time we really sort of got to talk was after a Pilates class.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Was that the first time?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I feel like we've seen each other in past.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, but I think I was always like, ah, but you're right. I think that was the first time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it's so funny because you were.

[Kathryn Hahn]

You're like a star. I can't describe it. It was like you guys were get. It was all the awards and all the. Like, you were. I just saw you everywhere. And also, it looked like you were all such. I mean, knowing Ty, too, like, clearly such good people that it just seemed so, like, that was like the bar in terms of, like, having a show and just loving who you work with. And.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I definitely.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That writing was so consistently good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, we were very lucky. It's so interesting, though, because, like, I always look at other people and think, oh, those are the cool kids. And, like, I wish I could just, like, have, like, five seconds with them. And honestly, like, you, Amy Poehler, Rashida Jones, these are some of your best friends.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Are like, those. That group of people? I was like, oh, they're the cool kids. And now I've become friends, genuinely friends with all of you. And I just feel like, oh, first of all, we make up so many stories in our heads about who is on our level or who is a star. Not a star. Cause I felt the same about you. And I remember seeing you in that Pilates class. I kept hearing the name Good Katherine. Good. Or a little deeper Katherine. Or do you want the balance bar Katherine?

[Kathryn Hahn]

A lot of notes for Katherine in the corner.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I kept. And you were just far enough. And as we just talked about, my vision's not great. And so I couldn't fully see if that was actually you. Because also, you know, we were at Pilates class. We were at Sweaty Messes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I got close enough to you after the class, I was like, that is Kathryn Hannah. I'm. Say hi. And we both kind of did that thing where, like.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I know, I know, I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, it would be really.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, my God, I love how hard was that class?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It remains hard. I still go back or what's Hard.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, it's amazing. I've only. I haven't been Metamorphosis.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Shout out to Metamorphosis.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Huge. Shout out to Metamorphosis.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They're. They got us. Our bodies. The bodies 2C today.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That is, like, the first time we really had a chance to, like. You're right. Connect.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And you were just about to go do a play on Broadway.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think I was just about to start Take Me Out. Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes, exactly. Which. Holy shit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. It turned out to be a very special. I'm gonna do Shakespeare in the park this summer.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, my God, I wanna cry.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. I'm so excited. But also, I've done Shakespeare in the park six times. I got my Equity card doing Shakespeare in the Park. It's the greatest. Cause it's free theater. It's. You know, theater's a democracy. It should be there for everyone. It should be affordable for everyone. And, like, Joe Papp set up this place for people to go and wait in line and see great theater. And it's. The audiences are the most lovely audiences because they're getting to see these incredible performances, and it's. It's unlike anything else.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, my God. So good. Yeah, that is. I'm gonna get this out of the way just so you can see it clearly.

[Tal Zeit]

Hummus. Baba ghanoush, spicy tahini over here. This is our side of vegan labener, which is made from almonds and garlic. Ria labneh. So it's really good. There's a sweet potato for our girl here. And then lastly, maghrebi tahini, which is tahini with pickled lemons and red pepper. So a little spicy, a little tangy.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Just like all the pita.

[Tal Zeit]

It's meant to just rip and dip, Right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Rip and dip.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Rip and dip. Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Incredible. Wait, are you going right for vegetarian?

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, I'm really, like. I mean, to be honest with you, I'll eat fish.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And sometimes steak. So when I say vegetarian, I'm California vegetarian.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And sometimes human flesh.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I would say. Yeah, I would say I'm a good California vegetarian.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, that's hilarious. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kathryn tells me about her scrappy theater roots, which jokes and stepbrothers were her idea. And always taking big swings on screen. Okay, be right back. If you're a listener of Dinners on Me, chances are you might be a foodie. And if you're a foodie, it's a possibility that you also might Be a wine aficionado, or at least know a couple. And we all do. And if you're trying to find a gift for that wine lover in your life, life, I know just the place to go. Justin wine. Since 1981, Justin has been producing world class Bordeaux style wines on California's central coast, putting Paso Robles on the winemaking map. The Justin team believes that wine should be exceptional from every angle, which is why their team uses boutique winemaking practices like hand harvesting and hand sorting. And listen, I know we're talking about wine aficionados here, but Justin also welcomes wine newbies into their fold as well. So if you're looking for a place to start, try Isosceles, which is Justin's flagship Bordeaux style red blend comprised of Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc and Merlot. And Justinwine has a little something for Dinners on me listeners, visit justinwine.com and enter Jesse20 for 20% off your order. Justin offers the perfect holiday gifts for clients, colleagues, friends or family. Be sure to check them [e-mail] and enter Jesse20 to receive 20% off your order for a limited time. And we're back with more dinners on Me. I mean, you've done like tons of Williamstown.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You've done lots of off Broadway. I know. I saw you in Boeing Boeing on Broadway.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah. That was the only time on Broadway.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

On Broadway.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which, by the way, what a debut. And like, the fact that you have not been on Broadway since Boeing Boeing is astonishing to me because I remember that performance so vividly. For people who don't know the play Boeing Boeing, it's about three flight attendants and a pilot.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And a pilot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, a pilot and then his friend rotating stewardesses.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Three stewardesses. Flight attendants.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I think you could say stewardesses back.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know what Sofia called them once when she couldn't remember the name for flight attendant? Plane waiter. And she did. She was just trying to find the words. I mean, she says the weirdest things, like the things that come out of her mouth.

[Kathryn Hahn]

She's like, that's perfect.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. She was like. She was trying to find the right words and she just. I mean, she keeps saying it. Like, the longer she's been in this country, the worse her English gets. We were on a flight to do an episode in Australia and she's like, where is the plane waiter? Like, she was like, help me out here, Help me out. I was like, it's like, flight attendant. She's like, yes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I had a friend once who was like, amma, should we go over and meet by that huge sheet of glass? And I was like, you mean window?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

She couldn't say it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, it's so funny.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Seriously, doing theater, that is like. You're kind of living out a dream that I. When I graduated from school, that was like, the track I had wanted to take. Like, I miss it so much. And I. You know, when I did boing boing, my son was like, God, he wasn't even a year. Maybe we re ended when he was like a year and a half. But it's not a. It's like, a very difficult job if you can't, like, schlep your kids around and have them.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's not a great job for people with young kids because you miss out on evenings.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're exhausted during the day. You want to sleep in because you work at night.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah. I remember, like, doing it. And then he would, of course, wake up in the morning, and I was like, oh. Cause, I mean, I don't know about you, but I couldn't go right to bed after a show. No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Your adrenaline rushing through your body still.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes, I know. So, anyway, I can't wait. I'm not sure exactly when it's. I mean, once I go to school. Yeah, I'm going to. I mean, that's where I had always felt the most myself as a performer.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's crazy to me that you. That you've been away from the stage for so long. I mean, I know having kids does, you know, do that, but.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, it's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just feel like I've always thought of you as a stage actress. And even in your performances on screen, like, I feel like you bring. There's, like, a bravery that you have to have on stage. You have to make kind of very specific, brave choices. And I don't know. I'm trying to say this in a way that's like. I don't want to say you're too big on screen, but you make big choices.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Carol Channing, her face eats the screen. God, I worship.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Me, too. I mean, you and stepbrothers talk about big swings. I mean, how much. I actually was just rewatching some of your scenes and that. Because I was like. I remember loving it so much.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Knowing I was gonna sit down with you. I mean, how much of that was scripted like you. These are the moments I wanna ask you about specifically.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You taking a piss in the urinal.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That was our first ad. He suggested it, and I was like, Brilliant. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Always have to give props, you having your foot in the sink after sex, saying, this is exactly how I've always imagined it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Okay, that's probably me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, just.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, that was like also such a specific time in comedy. Yeah, but McKay was so.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Adam McKay, the director.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah, yeah. Well, he wrote something genius and hilarious. I think with Will, that you could just do that and it would be. But then they would always, you know, do that thing where it was like, okay, just say, now throw it away and let's just roll. Sometimes the night before everything turns around.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, same, same, same.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Cause I feel like I don't want to be caught.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just like, I want you to think I improvised this, but I was just very prepared.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Very prepared. So it was like more in the like for him. Because you were usually as a two shot too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That there was room for the actual new scenes to happen. So like we, you know, in that bathroom, like we were plotting Adam Scott's murder. Like we went down the darkest rabbit. Like so dark that whole scene. Like when I tell him I'm gonna shove him on my vagina.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Kids, I hope you're listening.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That was all not really in the script.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. I mean, that feels like such an iconic line. I wanna like smash him to and shove you inside my vagina.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, that can't be.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And when I feel it tickle, knowing that it's your hair tickle. I mean, it's.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, that came from the deep recesses of a recovering Catholic. I always take it off.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Same recovering Catholic.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Are you really?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I went to Catholic school for 12 years of my life.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah, me too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oof. I mean, some beautiful things.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Absolutely.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I love a uniform. Wow, that looks cool.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's incredible. But also I find it interesting that you said that, you know, the stepbrothers and then Afternoon Delight, which is tonally so different, are the places where you're years apart.

[Kathryn Hahn]

So I'm like, years apart.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. But like.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And I wouldn't say Afternoon Delight did anything professionally. Like, it wasn't like a huge. Not that many people saw it. Like, we got horrible reviews in the New York Times. But I just think as a performer, it shifted something in me that whatever that confidence was, I was able to and just myself like, okay, well, this is who I am right now on this trip. And so I can't like fight it or try to be something else. And so that was this allowance. I mean, like the over plucked eyebrows, you know what I mean? And, like, hair dye and all the crap. I was like, you know, shading of the nose, like, all this stuff that I was like, no, this is just why. This is who I am. If people I want to work with, the people who want to work with me instead of, like, constantly fighting for something that I just wasn't. And so I think after having. And weirdly, I think having kids, maybe it's that, like, bucking of authority that we probably both have from Catholic school, but everyone had told me, society people, that after you have kids, it's like. And also after being 40, that it's basically going to be harder and harder and harder as a woman. And I just found the opposite to be true. Totally. Like, I kept willing. I just kept. And I think it's more and more.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, have you heard the term hanaissance? Have you heard this?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes, I have. But I was like, you guys, there has been a McConaissance, and I was a proud member of the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've had an incredible. The work in the past, like, 10 years has just been absolutely bonkers and insane. And, like, I mean, such different opportunities and, I mean, do you think it's a product of maybe the people that were in charge of these projects? Obviously, Jodi Soloway, who you've then worked with on Transparent, which I also feel was an incredibly grounded performance and beautifully done, cool show. I mean, was it the environment that was sort of set up that made you feel free to play that way?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes. And also was. The other actors were as game. And also there was. I would say also the crew had a huge, like, our DP is like. He was like, an emotional script supervisor. I forgot what I was talking about.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just like, walking into a space and having it feel like it's.

[Kathryn Hahn]

So you would just walk in and not have to. You weren't worried.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You don't have to wait up for setup.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, no, no. So you could just, like, stay in it. No one went back to trailers, no phones at all. And I just think it was a huge learning for all of us. And then I went and did that show that only lasted a season called I Love Dick.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Which was also the same group of people, so same crew, same, you know, so many same writers. So that was like. It just felt like that chapter in my life just felt like. It just felt very turning pointy. Mm. This food is incredible.

[Tal Zeit]

Joanna, oyster mushrooms right here. Now, for the mushrooms, we recommend taking the minimum churro and doing, like, a pour over situation. Okay, do it. Or you can, like, choose your own adventure on that or I trust you doing it. All right, let's go. So we just want a little bit of dabble, guys.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Your plating is so beautiful.

[Tal Zeit]

That's all my mom. She's the artist behind this. I'm just the face of the operation.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You sure are.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Your mom's the face too.

[Tal Zeit]

Mom's gorgeous.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

For a 63. Truly.

[Kathryn Hahn]

She's gorgeous.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

63 doesn't look a day over truly.

[Tal Zeit]

32.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Well, how do you feel working with your mom? Do you like it?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, she's right there. So you can't say.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It'S great.

[Tal Zeit]

Listen, it's been tough.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes. If I could get my son to work with me, it would be the best.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What would he do?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Katherine, my assistant.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Your assistant? No.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No way. But I would. It would really. Oh, that's very sweet, though.

[Tal Zeit]

Jerusalem bagel toast with fresh arugula, provolone red splub with some spicy sauce. This looks incredible with some labnel on the. That's the non vegan version. So for the dairy people in the house and. Yeah, dig in, guys.

[Kathryn Hahn]

This is nuts.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Crazy.

[Kathryn Hahn]

This is crazy. This is how I always want to eat my bagels. Thin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No other way. Thin. We're going to take a quick break, but before we come back, we're going to give you a special segment. We are calling chef's tasting notes brought to you by Justin Wine Mazal.

[Tal Zeit]

Mazal. Yeah, Mazal. Nailed that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So we're here at Mazal. I'm sitting with Tal Zeit. Who. You're the owner.

[Tal Zeit]

Correct.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You have this place. It's a family owned business.

[Tal Zeit]

My mom and I put the menu together ourselves. My dad is no longer allowed to be in the restaurant. Cause he's just too proud. And he goes around to every table and is like, have you met the owner? He's my son and will like schmooze everybody. So I'm like, dad, you know, you can sit at the bar and like, have a beer, but nothing else.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, that's sweet.

[Tal Zeit]

It's nice.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm proud of you.

[Tal Zeit]

I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tal Zeit]

I'm very lucky, honestly, with both my parents, definitely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I assume that a lot of what we're like, what I'm eating with Catherine today is stuff that you have been eating your entire life. Are these based on, like childhood recipes that you. You love?

[Tal Zeit]

And 100%. So most of the menu from the beginning is not only stuff that my mom would make for me growing up, but also that her mom from Morocco would cook for her growing up. And so it's a little bit of like a Moroccan inspired Israeli Mediterranean, you know, mishmash of everything. We also grow a lot of the fruits and vegetables that we cook here. So my parents live in Agua Dulce, and they have a little orchard there. So in the late summer, early fall even to like, now, everything that we grow, we cook. So, yeah, it couldn't be more like, you know, generational familial. Like, our fingers are in every single piece of the pie here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now, I know you talked about this food is stuff you had growing up. I'm sure you didn't drink a lot of wine growing up, but Catherine and I obviously had this, you know, fantastic vegan meal today. And, you know, a lot of people think of wine pairings with meat. I mean, the oyster dish was like.

[Tal Zeit]

The oyster mushroom dish.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's. Sorry, the oyster mushroom dish.

[Tal Zeit]

Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was it oyster mushrooms? Yeah, the oyster mushroom dish was incredibly meaty. But what would you consider pairing with something like what Catherine and I ate?

[Tal Zeit]

Yeah, definitely. So a lot of our dishes are super lemon heavy. I mean, it's kind of like a staple in Mediterranean, Middle Eastern food. It's definitely with, like, the Moroccan twist. You have a lot of pickled lemon ingredients. You want to go something with, like, really high acid. So like a Riesling, Sauvignon Blanc, Albarino. Those are three kind of like, good varietals that would pair perfectly with stuff that have a lot of lemon in it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right, right. What are your thoughts on white. White wines and varietals during the winter?

[Tal Zeit]

I'm all for them. The only problem is if you throw an ice cube in there, then we're gonna have some ice cubes. Is that what you do?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I guess. Carrie Russell won't be having wine with you. She loves a few ice cubes.

[Tal Zeit]

She have some ice cubes in the wine and watering it down? Yeah, God forbid. Yeah. No, listen, again, if you like some sort of wine, just drink it. You know what I mean?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. Keri Russell. Sorry. So no more ice cubes for you. That was so great getting to hear from Tal about the inspiration behind his family's cooking. And we got some great suggestions for wine pairings. That was a special segment called Chef's Tasting Notes brought to you by Justin Wein. Now back to our show. And we're back with more dinners on me. You were mentioning I love Dick, and I also, I was thinking, which I love so much, but also, Mrs. Fletcher, there was, like, a Moment. I feel like there was this, like, a few years where, like, every year there was, like, a Kathryn Hahn series.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Single season, series, single series, series.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But they were always so great. But, like, what I mean, having, you know, also experienced disappointment with shows that I'm so proud of. How do you, like. What do you do for yourself to, like, I guess, also protect myself. Protect yourself. But also, like, when you're going into something that you feel. Because I'm sure you believe in all these projects as you're doing them, too, to, you know, also curb your own expectations about what can happen afterwards and still stay in the excitement of it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

My expectations now have to be. Because I'm sure you've experienced this, too. Like anybody in this anything, you know, as soon as your expectations are really. It's just hard to meet sometimes. You don't know if it's gonna be everybody's taste or just a few people's. Like, I just try to go with the things that are, I don't know, the most interesting. And then I try really hard now not to take it on. Although it's really difficult, especially if you've invested so much of your life and to something that is just, you know, unceremoniously. That's how they have to do it here, too. It's like there's no kind of slowly letting it. It's like you get a call and you're done. And that's like a crew. That's like a family you've put together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Nice way. Sometimes you just show up to the set like your name's been painted over on, like, your parking spot.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Sometimes you literally read it in the news.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Or, I mean. Cause I've been in plenty of them where you think you're signing on for, like, a show, and then all of a sudden, even midway through, it becomes a limited series, which is kind of a gentler way of just canceling a show.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

See, I used to say that one.

[Kathryn Hahn]

But it is basically canceling.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I did a show that. It was right before we're actually Modern Family. It was called Do Not Disturb, and it was with Niecy Nash and Jerry O'Connell, and I love him. Created by Abraham Higginbotham, who ended up going on to be a writer for Modern Family. And right before that, he had worked on Arrested Development. Like, really talented.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it was, you know, kind of doomed from the beginning.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And how did you know?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just felt it. And there was, like, no support from the studio, really. And it got canceled after three episodes. And we shot like five or six. But I remember when I left for like the hiatus after shooting like number six, I was like, oh, I'm not coming back. Cause the show had already started airing and I saw the numbers. Oh, God. But anyways, I was just telling people that I shot a three part miniseries. I was like, no, we told our story. That was what we meant to like. It ended in a very. No, no, no. It was always meant to be three episodes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I think I've said that too. Where I'm like, no, I'm very satisfied with how it ended up. I feel like we told the story.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We told the story.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I once did a show with Hank Azaria called Free Agents.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, I remember this.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh my God. With the brilliant Natasha Leggero.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh.

[Kathryn Hahn]

It was a great cast.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was. Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And I remember same thing. I'd never been in that where it's airing as you're shooting and you can see, like, the mood is getting like less and less. So there was one night, it was like a walk and talk. I had to come out of an elevator and meet him. And then we were gonna just continue down the hallway. I love Hank. And there was this amazing background artist who always played the receptionist. And I was in the elevator ready to go. And right before they called action, she just mouthed, I'm so sorry.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, no, no.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I had not known that we were canceled. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She was like, action. Action.

[Kathryn Hahn]

It was pretty amazing. And I don't even think it was one of those where I don't even think that episode made it to the air.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right, yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, God, that was brutal.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But you've had an incredible. The work in the past, like 10 years has just been absolutely bonkers and insane and like, I mean, such different opportunities. And everything that's happened with Agatha, I mean, is absolutely, first of all, so deserved. But like, you have this great opportunity with this incredible character who has so much. You have so much to do in the show. I mean, you get to be incredibly moving, you get to be hilarious, you get to be dramatic. You get to twirl that coat. Twirl that coat. Just you posing. And as the Wicked Witch of the west, like, I was like, Catherine just is. All this is right now is just like camera angles.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh. Just absolutely allowed myself to do that before.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's fantastic.

[Kathryn Hahn]

It's so fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So fun. And I was eating it up. I mean, what does it feel like, first of all, to have such a meaty thing being offered to you? But then also I just feel like opportunities like that are not given to people our age.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, they're not doing WandaVision in this part. I never in a million years would have found myself in Marvel. Like, it was all that was. Again, that was like, somewhere else completely. I didn't really know Marvel. That was just. Wasn't my, like, milieu. Like, my kids loved it. So I like, see it through them. And I always knew that they got these incredible actors. So when I got it or when they asked me to do the witch in WandaVision, I was. I mean, that was ridiculous. Like, you never. Like you said, you never get to do that. So that was also with a trope that I had known really well. I had been the. The best friend or the nosy neighbor. Like, that had been like my bread and butter. So to be able to play with those tropes for a whole show was, like, so much fun. And then have that reveal at the all of it was just the dreamiest. So when this came about and I knew that Jack was gonna be writing it as well. Jack Schaefer, who? I would. I just. I would follow her anywhere. I trust that brain. And I really. I mean, I said yes before, obviously, before even really seeing a script. Cause I didn't care. I would fall into the abyss with her. Cause I just love her brain. I kept. At the end of it, I was like, well, that was my last acting job.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Cause it doesn't get better.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Well, yeah. And also, like, you don't get to play all of that in one.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You really don't.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, it was nuts to be able to do all of that. Anne Wiggs and Aubrey and Patti LuPone. Patti the Wolf LuPone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I sent her a voice memo after her after episode six. She does love a voice memo. I save all of them.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Of course I tried to save it. She sang me Happy Birthday. I can't find it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You can't find it?

[Kathryn Hahn]

No, I tried.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is it still there?

[Kathryn Hahn]

No. I thought I had saved it, but it's gone. You know how all of a sudden.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It'S like, poof, I'm gonna call her. And I'm saying, you need to re. Sing Happy Birthday to Katherine, please, will you? Of course I am.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I thought you were taking out your phone to remind yourself.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I was like, wow, Siri, remind me to call Patti LuPone to rerecord happy Birthday.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, my God, we should call her right now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, like, all these act. All of you had such incredible things to do. And I just felt, you know, for someone like Patti LuPone who's like, you know, she's done so much but never gotten to play something like this.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it's just. It really. I don't know. The casting of the show was just.

[Kathryn Hahn]

She is a witch. She'll tell you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, 100%. I don't know. I hadn't seen anything like it on television before and it really felt really special. And I hope there's more of it. It seems like it's sort of open ended that it could be another season. No, no.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, I think. I don't know. That's all I've heard is that this was. There is a trilogy. The next one would be focused on vision. That had always been like the game the long. But I don't know. I don't know. This show really surprised me at how so many people have responded to it. It's not like, I mean, there's some sophisticated themes in there for like the kids. I think this is why I'm also so, so proud of it. It just feels like it's just in the DNA. It's not like about anything else, but like it's not about a bunch of women, you know, witches over 40 and this like beautiful, queer young man. It's all just a part of what the show is. So it gets me very excited that young people could see this and just be excited. Just that it's a Marvel show.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I don't know, I found it incredibly moving in ways that I wasn't expecting to. And Joe, you know, Joe Locke is someone I've been admiring for a long time. He actually did an episode of this podcast.

[Kathryn Hahn]

He did not. I still listen to it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

He so loved him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I caught him when he was in New York doing Sweeney Todd. So I sat down with him then.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Did you see Sweeney Todd?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

How about that voice?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know, he's fantastic. But you know, we talked a little bit about this show. Cause I knew he had just finished shooting it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh. So he couldn't say much, but you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Really couldn't say very much. So I'm really excited to like, you know, sit down with him and gush over him.

[Kathryn Hahn]

He is one of the most special, fully realized. I mean, then he was 19 year olds I've ever met. I just, I admire him so much. I admire his like, sensual and I also. It's crazy how many little girls and boys are in love with him. Like how many little girls like have such crushes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. He is so cute.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Amazing. Oh, he's so cute.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Those little eyebrows. Oh, forget they're not little but they did. They're very significant.

[Kathryn Hahn]

But they're. I mean, he's so beautiful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. He really is.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah. A good. Good egg. Yeah. I'm excited for all of the next steps for him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Me too. Me too. Yeah. You and your husband. Ethan, right?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Is it Ethan?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes. 30 years you've been together.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Married 20.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Married 20. Long time. I've just. Justin and I are about to celebrate 12.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, when. First of all, you met him in school, I assume.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes. Met him, like, freshman year.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Freshman year.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah. But I think I at least was like, God damn it. Because I thought I was gonna really, like, just take him down one by one. Like, I was so horny, and I had no takers. And I remember even being in eighth grade, I was like, any takers? Any takers? Any takers? I was nobody.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, Freshman year of college or high school. Okay. Got it, got it, got it.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm obsessed with the fact that you and your husband eloped.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Mm.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which is such a smart thing. Cause you saved so much money. What made you want to elope and not deal with, like, the wedding stuff?

[Kathryn Hahn]

Well, mainly it was because both of our parents are divorced. His parents and my parents.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes. I knew this. Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

And we did not want to take that show on the road. And so it kind of worked out. We had big parties in each of our, like, hometowns. So, like, afterwards, I had a big party in Cleveland, and he had a big party in Seattle. But I loved it. There was a moment, though, like, the day we were getting. We got married in Big Sur.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Beautiful.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Beautiful. We stayed there, like, the night before we got married, and then we just blew it in a positive way. That's probably not the expression. I was gonna say blue or wad. But, like, at the Post Ranch Inn.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Holy moly moly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

I mean, that was like. I don't know what it is right now, but it was, like, $1,000 back then.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It still is. It's more now.

[Kathryn Hahn]

20 years ago.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

We were like, this is crazy. But then we kept being like, well, we're not having a wedding. I, like, got a used wedding dress and my grandma's python pomps. As soon as my dad heard actually, what a wedding would cost, I think he was very pro elopement.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I had such. And I still do have such a deep desire to have a successful marriage. I think partly because my parents weren't able to see that all the way through. Justin's parents got married when they were very young and just celebrated. I think their 52nd or 53rd anniversary.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Amazing. And so, so inspiring. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But there's a big piece of me that really wants. Now that I have kids.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, there's a piece of me that just like, really wants to succeed at it. And like a very like almost desperately wants succeed at it. And that's all to say, like, I have a really great marriage that I love and I love being married. But I sometimes have to remind myself to not set myself up against the standards of my parents. But it's hard because I really. I want so badly to succeed. I'm a perfectionist too.

[Kathryn Hahn]

He also. I'm sure you wouldn't mind me saying this. Like he had for a very long time, he had kept saying, like, we're never. Like, I am in this forever. Like we. I believe in marriage. Like, we're in this forever. Like we're gonna make it. He had a lot of. Like, he really, really, like you was desperate for a. What his parents didn't have. Like a long successful. Sometimes if I just think like that too big picture, it's all the other stuff starts to drive us batshit crazy instead of just because, like, ah, we're stuck in this whatever. Like I can feel us sometimes going like, take each other for granted or whatever. Because instead of just appreciating, you know, the day by day. Also it helps that I travel sometimes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think this time away is so important.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Yes, absolutely. Not even joking. It really is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. Isn't it delicious? So good. So incredible. One of the last times I was at Metamorphosis, I sent you a little video, a huge billboard for Agatha all along, right across. It was right across the street from Metamorphosis. And I sent you a video. I was like, what the fuck, Kathy? You think you're better than us? And that's all it said. And you responded back saying, as my dad would say, what a handsome woman. And I just saw that you lost your dad in the spring. I'm so sorry. First of all, yeah, I sound like you had a really special relationship. I mean, anyone who would call you a handsome woman is my type of guy.

[Kathryn Hahn]

That was actually my friend that said that. But he would, he would have loved.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He wasn't your dad himself.

[Kathryn Hahn]

No. My friend said you're what my dad would call a handsome.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Which I guess is a huge. I take it as a massive compliment.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kathryn Hahn]

But my dad was also. You would have loved him. He was also just fricking a hilarious Hilarious. Hilarious, man. Like, if he could get in a little rascal and just wreak havoc even though he really didn't need one, like, he was. He would do it. I felt a lot of. That's not to say that grief is really a bucking bronco.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. And it just seems so, like, permanent and then to, like, you know, know that there's just so much ahead of us and, you know, you're in a place where you're gonna be sending your son off to college soon. It's just.

[Kathryn Hahn]

It's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's wild. Yeah. Oh, Catherine, you gotta get out of here. Here's your plane.

[Kathryn Hahn]

Oh, thank you. The plan should be landing soon. That's how I travel.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Mazal in Lincoln Heights, California. Dinner Is on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode, Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.