KIERNAN SHIPKA — on growing up on “Mad Men” set and her self-help book obsession

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson
Episode: Kiernan Shipka — on Growing Up on the “Mad Men” Set and Her Self-Help Book Obsession
Release Date: November 12, 2024

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Introduction to Friendship and Early Careers

Jesse Tyler Ferguson welcomes Kiernan Shipka, highlighting their long-standing friendship that began when Kiernan was just eight years old. Jesse reminisces about their early days in the entertainment industry, with Jesse navigating the success of Modern Family and Kiernan excelling on the set of Mad Men.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (02:39): "I have such deep respect for Kiernan Shipka for so many reasons...she gracefully navigated through this very complicated industry and became a very respected actor in her own right."

They discuss the contrast between their experiences—Kiernan as a child actor in a mature drama and Jesse as an adult in a comedic setting.

Life on the Mad Men Set

Kiernan shares insights into her time on Mad Men, emphasizing the challenges of growing up in a primarily adult environment. She reflects on the mental and emotional struggles of leaving the show at 14, feeling untethered without the structure of a traditional school environment.

Kiernan Shipka (09:59): "I kind of lost this anchor in my life...I was sort of, like, a little bit untethered."

Jesse and Kiernan delve into specific memories from the set, including Kiernan’s audition process and her first interactions with other young actors.

Kiernan Shipka (07:21): "I was a little miss. Little Miss Worker. That's incredible."

Navigating Fame and Social Media

The conversation shifts to Kiernan’s relationship with social media, which began in her early teens. She explains how her approach matured over time, allowing her to maintain a healthy balance between her personal life and public persona.

Kiernan Shipka (20:14): "I have a pretty healthy relationship with it...It doesn't get in with my day."

Jesse relates to the challenges of balancing fame with personal growth, sharing his own experiences at events like the Emmy Awards.

Transitioning to Adult Roles and Mental Health

Kiernan discusses her transition from Mad Men to more prominent roles, including her lead role in Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. She highlights the pressures of stepping into more responsibility and how these experiences shaped her approach to acting and personal wellbeing.

Kiernan Shipka (23:13): "I sort of isolated myself and all the stuff that I was dealing with was really internal and it wasn't really out in the world."

Addressing mental health, Kiernan opens up about her reliance on self-help books to maintain her mental stability, showcasing her commitment to personal growth.

Kiernan Shipka (25:54): "I feel like if I don't have a self-help book in my hand, I just lose it."

Recent Projects and Creative Endeavors

Kiernan shares details about her latest projects, including the rom-com Sweethearts and the holiday film The Best Christmas Pageant Ever. She expresses excitement about working in comedy again, a genre she has a deep passion for from her early improv days.

Kiernan Shipka (28:36): "I'd been wanting to do comedy. I love comedy so much."

They discuss the collaborative environment on set, particularly praising her co-stars and the creative freedom in Sweethearts.

Kiernan Shipka (29:54): "It was a little family... we were living and shooting in Las Vegas, living in a hotel."

Admiration for Fellow Actors and Continued Growth

Kiernan talks about her admiration for actors like Jamie Lee Curtis and Nicolas Cage, citing their fearless approaches to acting as inspirational. She emphasizes the importance of connection in acting, distinguishing between mere performance and genuine acting.

Kiernan Shipka (36:57): "I think there's something really special about people who look at it through that lens...connecting with other people and learning from the people around you."

Jesse echoes this sentiment, highlighting the difference between performers and actors who deeply engage with their craft.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (37:05): "I think there's a difference between performers and actors."

Memorable Moments and Future Aspirations

The duo shares amusing anecdotes from their careers, including Jesse’s memorable encounter with Kristen Wiig at the Emmy Awards. They discuss future aspirations, with Jesse aiming to tackle challenging theatrical roles and Kiernan expressing interest in exploring theater beyond her current experience.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (40:08): "I'm always scared to do classical theater. I'm about to do Shakespeare in the park with some, like, Titans."

Kiernan Shipka (40:14): "I would love to go. I would love to be on stage. But one day for sure."

Conclusion and Reflections

As the episode draws to a close, Jesse and Kiernan reflect on their enduring friendship and mutual support throughout their careers. They express gratitude for the opportunities they've had and the personal growth they've achieved.

Kiernan Shipka (43:37): "I think that was put in my head so much of like, oh, this could go wrong...so that happened."

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (43:50): "I'm so glad you said yes to this."

The episode concludes with Jesse extending an open invitation for future engagements, symbolizing their ongoing camaraderie.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (43:51): "Don't worry about leaving anything. Dinner's on me."

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Notable Quotes

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson (02:39): "I have such deep respect for Kiernan Shipka...she gracefully navigated through this very complicated industry and became a very respected actor in her own right."

• Kiernan Shipka (09:59): "I kind of lost this anchor in my life...I was sort of, like, a little bit untethered."

• Kiernan Shipka (25:54): "I feel like if I don't have a self-help book in my hand, I just lose it."

• Kiernan Shipka (36:57): "I think there's something really special about people who look at it through that lens...connecting with other people and learning from the people around you."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson offers an intimate glimpse into Kiernan Shipka's journey from child actress on Mad Men to a versatile performer embracing new challenges in the industry. Their candid conversation delves into personal growth, mental health, and the enduring power of friendship, providing valuable insights for listeners interested in the behind-the-scenes realities of Hollywood life.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The other day, I was making lemonade with my sons, Beckett and Sully, and Beckett is a little bit of a perfectionist. I'm not sure where he gets that from. It's me. It's definitely me. But he was getting really upset about the seeds falling into the juice, and it was turning into a bit of high drama. Now, listen, there's an easier way to do this. Who knew? Wonderful seedless lemons are a 100% naturally seedless lemon variety. They're juicy, zesty, bright, and everything you love about lemons, minus the. See, that's right. No more seeds floating in your lemonade or Diet Coke or getting caught in your teeth when you take a bite of salad. Frankly, that's just a hazard. Wonderful seedless lemons are available nationwide at retailers such as Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Walmart, Kroger, as well as select Costco outlets. Look for wonderful seedless lemons at your local retailer or visit wonderfulseedlesslemons.com to learn more. Hey, it's Jesse. Now, I have a question for you. Have you thought about hosting on Airbnb? I know so many of my listeners have such interesting lives. Maybe you're a traveling nurse running from hospital to hospital, or a touring musician, a pilot, a truck driver. I mean, there are so many jobs that take us away from our homes for long stretches of time. And even though there's perks in traveling, I love it. It's sometimes a bummer to be gone for extended periods and know that no one is there to enjoy the space we've put so much of ourselves into. So I come back to my initial question. Have you thought about hosting on Airbnb? Whether it's your whole home or just an unused space within your home, you have an Airbnb. I'm telling you, I know your next thought. Well, that's a lot of work. I got to make a listing. I got to make sure the house is clean, be by my phone in case I need anything. Ah. Well, let me tell you, Airbnb has a solution for you. With Airbnb's new co host feature, you can now hire a local co host who handles everything from start to finish. They can manage your listing, communicate with guests, handle the reservations, and even make sure your place looks amazing for every stay so you know you're not stuck worrying about last minute questions while you're in, I don't know, a completely different time zone. Find a co [e-mail] host hi, it's Jesse today on the show. You know her as Sally Draper on Mad Men and Sabrina Spellman from the Netflix series Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. But look out for her upcoming sweethearts. And redone, it's Kiernan Shipka.

[Kiernan Shipka]

We came up together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, basically.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, we really did, actually.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. You were doing your first Gerber campaign when I was getting my first pay job.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I guess it's kind of weird to say that Kiernan Shipka and I have been friends since she was 8, but I don't know. I guess that's true. Listen, I mean, now that I'm a dad and my son is four, my friend circle age range has definitely gotten wider. There are some pretty cool 4 and 5 year olds out there. I'm just. I'm just saying. Anyway, yes. Kiernan Shivka and I first met when she was at the height of the success of the brilliant TV series Mad Men, while I was navigating the early success of Modern Family. Now, our experiences could not have been more different. I mean, obviously she was experiencing all this as an adolescent in a very adult drama while I was experiencing it as an adult in a comedy who, you know, just loves personal drama. I have such deep respect for Kiernan Shipka for so many reasons. Well, one, because I was an absolute fanatic for the show Mad Men. I absolutely love it. I would watch it over and over and over again. But also because I have watched her gracefully navigate through this very complicated industry and become a very respected actor in her own right. Something that. That's not easy to do when you start working as a literal infant. I mean, gosh, the things I could have accomplished if my parents had faith in me to be a Gerber baby. I don't know, I just feel like I would be in such a different place now. Oh, and something else that should be said about Kiernan. She is incredibly responsible and very, very punctual. Kiernan was the first to arrive.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I was early. I was. I had a schedule, and I was sort of wandering around forage thinking, what do I do? Where do I go?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I took Kiernan to Forage, a cozy spot in Silver Lake, Los Angeles, that feels more like a treehouse than a restaurant. You follow a staircase up to a canopy covered patio. Walking into the restaurant, you feel like you're walking into someone's home with a cozy brick fireplace that's going in the winter. Oh, by the way, winter in Los Angeles is when it drops below 75 degrees. Chef and owner Jason Kim is committed to sourcing from local farms and markets. And something I appreciate about forage is that it makes me excited to eat healthy. From their salmon Billy tacos to roast chicken to yellow coconut curry, everything is delicious and nourishing. Plus, I'm not gonna lie, forage is. Well, it's. It's kind of hip. So I thought, why not bring Kiernan to this Silver Lake hotspot? Okay, let's get to the conversation. So I just watched Sweethearts last night.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Did you. Oh, my God. You got a screener.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I got a screener.

[Kiernan Shipka]

What do you think?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I loved it.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Really? Yay. Oh, my God. So exciting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, it's so interesting seeing you because we. I wouldn't say we became friends when you were doing Mad Men, but, like, we were.

[Kiernan Shipka]

We were friendly. I mean, we were on the same circuit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Modern Family, Mad Men, I feel like, had very parallel awards seasons.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I feel like there was years when, like, you won best drama and we won best comedy.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. Yeah, we were.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A few times. Overlaps. Right. But doesn't it seem like. I don't know how you feel with that show? I mean, I imagine specifically because you were so young when it started. I mean, doesn't it sometimes feel like it was just like another lifetime ago?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yes and no. I mean, it's. But I don't know how you feel. But I feel like it's. It both feels like forever ago and also yesterday. But, I mean, I. People still come up to me and say how much they love the show, and I know it's this same for you. I mean, there's something about being on TV for that long.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you have recollection of, like, the early years on it? Because you were six.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I was six when I started, and I remember everything.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you?

[Kiernan Shipka]

I don't know if it was. I don't know if it was, because my brain and body just decided to remember, like, audition, first day, whole thing. And I'm glad for that. I mean, I'm sure there's some days that are a blip, but that's kind of everything. But. Yeah, no, I like the core. I remember getting it. I remember where I. Like, I was in the Jimmy Kimmel parking lot when I got the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Were you in the Jimmy Kimmel parking lot?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Cause I used to do skits for Jimmy Kimmel.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I did hear about this.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I used to do skits for Kimmel. Like, little. Like, they would put the earpiece in my ear, and I would go around and, like, prank Uncle Frank and do the whole thing. And I remember getting it and freaking out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, I love that. You were six, like, on a job, hearing about another job.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's like, crazy.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I was a little miss. Little Miss Worker. That's incredible.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. So funny. I had Aubrey Anderson Emmons, who played my daughter.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yes. And I actually just hung out with her as an adult. It was Amanda Gorman's birthday.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. And she had.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, all of us obsessed with her.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Obsessed. We love her. And we all went to Disney, and I didn't, like, know anyone like it. Like, I didn't really know anyone. She invited me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You went to Disney with Amanda Gorman?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is so cool.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I mean, dreams do come true, honestly. When you wish upon a star, truly, you might end up at Disney with a man. Gorman. And it was wonderful. But I, like, I felt very like, oh, I don't know any of her friends. This. You know, let's see how this is. And Aubrey was there. They're close or they're friends somehow. And we had a little day together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Way to bury the lead, Aubrey.

[Kiernan Shipka]

She's grown up now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's totally grown up. I mean, you know, wild. And I think about you and John in January. I was like, I really relate to how they must feel about you. Like, you know, so protective and so proud of you as well.

[Kiernan Shipka]

But it's funny, there was, like, that moment where January and I get to have dinner and, like, drink together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And it's like, I know the first couple times are really odd or funny.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure. Yeah. I felt the same way about when I was with Aubrey. Like, I took her. She did an episode of the podcast. She was, like, ordering, like, a steak, and I was like. I just, like, remember her, like, eating grilled cheese and, like, chicken tenders.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. But she has very specific memories about her audition, too. I think it's just, like, it was such a big moment. Her mind screenshot that part because she.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Came in probably, what, second?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She came in, like, the third season. So that was. The other thing is her mom did show her, like, you know, what the show was. And I don't think when you started, you started kind of. You weren't on the pilot, but you.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Started pretty much at the beginning, though. I was on episode two. Pilot was shot in New York, like, a year before.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Kiernan Shipka]

So the back of Sally is seen. And it's not me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Not me doing that back. Acting. That's someone else can't take credit.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. And you know, to come out of Mad Men at, like, what, age? 14?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, I was 14 when we wrapped in. 15 when it came out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right, right.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Last season.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Obviously, you're doing so well, and I want to talk about, like, this bonkers year you're having with such incredible things, but do you remember what it felt like to be so young? But also because I remember, like, as an adult, I felt like a little. I don't know, I felt like I was coming out of an isolation chamber or something or like a bunker, and I was, like, blinking in the sunlight. It's like, okay, what is this new landscape I'm walking into? But what did the industry feel like after leaving such a hit show for you?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, at that age. I mean, it's really interesting because I was talking to someone about this earlier. I don't have a reference point for what it's like to not be in the industry or kind of some level of public figure. Like, I was six when I started Mad Men, so it sort of worked out so that I was doing Mad Men. And then the six months that we weren't filming, I was mostly just doing normal kid stuff. Like, I wasn't really, like, I need to keep. So I think coming out of it, I was still so young that it was a little bit of finding my footing, and it was a weird time. Like, I think mentally, emotionally, when I look back and I kind of pinpoint what I struggled with, and I, like, search for the why. It was because I was kind of. I kind of lost this anchor in my life. And because I wasn't in school anywhere. I mean, I already graduated high school through Laurel Springs.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you graduate early?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Independent study? I graduated early. I just did the whole thing. I was sort of, like, a little bit untethered. And did you ever go to school.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

With other kids, or were you strictly on set?

[Kiernan Shipka]

I was always on set. I stopped at first grade. Yeah, yeah. So I was young.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That always fascinates me, too.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just that whole.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I didn't know how to open a locker. I was filming. I was filming a high school. A high school film. After Madvin, I was like, 15. They're like, okay, Kieran, you're just gonna walk down the hall and then open the locker. And I was like, okay, great. And I walk down, and then I get to the locker, and I'm like, oh, no. Oh, no. I never got to this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's incredible.

[Kiernan Shipka]

This isn't part of my. Part of my skill set yet, guys. Someone teach me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know how to ride A horse. I can do karate. I can open a locker. These are special skills that you need to have.

[Kiernan Shipka]

They're on the resume. Win headshot resume.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's really funny, actually. And I know. Hi.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Hello.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Good.

[Kiernan Shipka]

How are you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm Jason. I'm the owner of Chef of Forage.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Jason.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Very nice to meet you guys.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I'm about to be a big fan. I've never been here before.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, we're excited to have you. I've been, but it's been a while. You guys try all our food? Well, what are some of your favorites?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, what do you like?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So our definitely. Our signature dish is probably our salmon bowl. I was eyeing that.

[Kiernan Shipka]

That looks good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, we're kind of known for our, like, kind of seasonal. Seasonal sides, vegetable forward kind of menu. Awesome.

[Kiernan Shipka]

What are you feeling, Jesse?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm gonna do the Korean fried chicken.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Bowl, I think, and I'm gonna do the salmon bowl.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So one salmon bowl, one Korean fried chicken bowl.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I would love a coffee, please. One coffee as well. Oh, it says cream top cold brew. What's. Talk to me about the cream top, the cream top cold brew. So wheat with some cream with some. A little bit of sugar, but we don't whip it all the way, so it's, like, really soft. I might do that.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I got to do it, too. It sounds so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So we got two cream top cold brews, one salmon bowl, and one Korean fried chicken. Yeah. All right, I think that's it. All right, guys, we'll have put your order in, and we'll bring out your food once.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Thank you so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Exciting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Major.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Major. We were talking about something deep.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait. No, I was gonna say, and it makes so much sense, is that you weren't, like, really kind of allowed. First of all, you weren't allowed to watch the show, and rightfully so. I mean, it was a very adult show. But also what I found so interesting, there were moments where they would get reaction shots from you, but you wouldn't necessarily know what you were reacting to.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, I was reacting to, like, John playing Words with Friends on his phone as an eyeline. Incredible. And not the real deal.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And, like, something that would actually be happening is you, like, walking in on him having an affair or something.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. Or someone else having an affair. I was walking in a lot, so I really opened the wrong doors, I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Guess it was like. Yeah, you did. Sally was always open the wrong doors. I think I remember Matt saying he was like, sally saw everything, but Kiernan didn't see Much.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, do you remember what it felt like to be in scenes that you didn't necessarily have context for?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, I mean, I think I had. Well, I definitely had context, but I didn't. They were very. They were so protective over me and my kind of innocence and not exposing me to stuff that, you know, was sensitive or more adult. And you know, I always knew what I was reacting to. Like, I always knew what I was walking in on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You just have to see it, but.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I just didn't have to see. See it over and over again because I think that felt like, well, she doesn't need to, you know, really see that. And I think at a certain point I was like, guys, I know, I know what this is. Like, I'm good, I'm fine. But I really admire and respect the way that they handle it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it's very remarkable.

[Kiernan Shipka]

But I do think in my head I was probably like, I'm mature, I'm an adult, I know what's going on here. Fine.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Guys, when was the first time you watched a full episode of the show?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh my gosh. Probably at. Oh my God, we have cream top coming in. That looks so good. Cream tops. Probably at some premiere. Like some premieres I would go to and then I would sit in for the episode. And I remember that was always really exciting. And then I did a rewatch.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is what I heard for your 16th birthday. Is this right?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, I did, I did go back, but then pandemic, when everyone was watching it, I was like, I'll join in on the fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Were you. And you were seeing episodes that you'd never seen before?

[Kiernan Shipka]

I think so, yeah. I mean, I really like, I did the full.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And you were an adult at this.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Point, top to bottom, I was an adult. I was, I was almost 21.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Were there any like, revelations or like, I don't know, for me it would be weird watching something that I did, not knowing all the information. I just, I always, I'm too much of a control freak.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Uh huh. So interesting because I am too. Especially as I get older. I like, I love to prep everything so much and really get into the psychology of who I'm playing and like. And there's so many different, like, routes I could take with this. But what I thought was really wild was that I was watching her go through stuff that at the time I was feeling in a really natural way. But now as sort of an adult, I can psychoanalyze and go, oh no, she was grieving there and acting out and, and at the time, I think I understood her as much as she understood herself. And as I get older, I kind of understand her the way that I hoped she, you know, would understand herself one day with therapy. And there's something really wild about seeing that because it was like it wasn't that I didn't know what was going on, but I didn't know what was going on in the way that we don't know what's going on with us until later too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so interesting.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Kind of mind blowing in a way. I mean, she really went through it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She did.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I know she did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And obviously, you know, it's just a sign that they did a great job casting and, you know, they were so trusted.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And it's the. Being trusted is the big thing. Because if you feel that level of trust that imprints forever.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

In the opposite direction too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kiernan tells me about being a young celebrity in the Deuxmoi era, her addiction to self help books, and when she knew Nico Haragura was the right choice for her rom com counterpart. Okay, be right back. So recently I've gotten back into somewhat of a consistent workout routine. But one thing I did realize, and I'm embarrassed to say this, is that some of my athleisure wear was looking a little worse for wear. I ended up doing a little refresh with some items from Quince. I got a few of the Flowknit breeze performance tees and polo shirts. They're super comfy and lightweight. They look really great. And fun fact, the fabric is made from recycled water bottles. Alright, but we gotta talk about the price. These shirts feel just as nice as the name brand shirts I have that were quadruple the price. Okay, how is this possible? Let me tell you. Quint's partners directly with factories, cutting out the cost of the middleman and passing the savings directly on to you. And I appreciate that they only work with factories that have safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with quince. Go to quince.com JTF for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com JTF to get free shipping and and 365 day returns. That's a year, people. Quince.com JTF this episode is brought to.

[Kiernan Shipka]

You by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI Assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 + to use Gemini Live.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. You were raised in Chicago earlier.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When did you move to la?

[Kiernan Shipka]

I moved to LA when I was six.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow. So moved to LA when you were six?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Right before Mad Men.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. So that was like you got here and you kind of had a big opportunity right away.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. Pilot season happened. I booked a show. I booked a pilot that was honestly very Modern Family esque.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, really?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Like, it was called Angriest man in Suburbia.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It was with Mitch Rouse. And yeah, everyone was like, oh, this is going to be absolutely great. Got the pilot. That's what they all say, Jesse, listen to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's jaded.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I know. I see through that now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You do.

[Kiernan Shipka]

But. But yeah, no, it was like waiting. Is it going to get picked up? Is it not? And it didn't. But during that little waiting period, snuck in a little audition for Mad Men and then that was it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Kiernan Shipka]

That was like, okay, I guess we're kind of moving here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Also, I'm kind of curious, just like, with. When did you get social media? Did you do that? Did that happen in Mad Men or. No.

[Kiernan Shipka]

So no.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Instagram. I think Instagram was maybe 2012 or 2013.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think you're right.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And I got it right away, but I got it on a personal level. Like, literally my only follower was my best friend who lived across the street from me. And we would post every photo that we took pretty much with like sepia filter on this one. I was 13.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And it was just fun. Like, there was no level of, oh, I'm thinking about this. And then I remember I was. And by the time I was maybe 15, it was social media and I wanted to be cool on it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I remember you brand yourself as.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I wanted to be cool in it. But I. It's funny, Jesse, because I didn't even want to be cool for the world. I wanted to be cool for the girls who went to high school in la. And then I think it transitioned into, oh, now this is, you know, now I'm on social media. And that's a whole other conversation that we can have. But in the beginning, I remember that shift. Thank you so much. Hello.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so.

[Kiernan Shipka]

That's Mine. Thank you. It looks gorgeous. And that looks so good, too. Oh, my God. Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's incredible.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It looks so good. Thank you. Wait, I remember that transition of, like, oh, this is fun to. Oh, I'm thinking about how I look on this thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. You know, I'm asking because, like, I also find it interesting, you know, at this moment when you were sort of becoming available for the next chapter of your life after this very successful show, there was sort of this surge of attention being paid to social media. How has that been, like for you? Because you definitely are someone who people pay attention to now.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, it's interesting. I think that, like, I kind of. I've been doing this for such a long time that there's a pretty good separation. So, like, the honest answer is I think I have a pretty healthy relationship with it, where I can look at something and go, like, oh, that's funny, or that's silly, or that's, you know, this or that. But it doesn't get on with my day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It doesn't feel invasive.

[Kiernan Shipka]

If I probably thought about it long and hard, I could get, you know, to a place where I'm like, hey, like, that's my. You know, that's my personal life. But I don't know. I think I've, like, created a bit of a steely sort of protective barrier between myself and, like, the Internet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What was it like for you when Sabrina happened? And it was such, like, a shift from you going from an ensemble piece to a show where you are the title character.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And that was four years. That's a long amount of time. I always think that that's, like, literally high school.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All of high school.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I went to Netflix University instead of college, visited a few, and then decided on Netflix.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, it seems like you were poised to take that responsibility on, and you had such great role models, you know, on previous jobs.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, Ham was a great example. Honestly. He's such a good number one.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Absolutely. But it's different in practice.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Sure. Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, what was that transition like for you?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Honestly, I was 18 when it started, and I really didn't think about it that much, like, I think. And now I think back, and I was like, I think if I thought hard enough about the pressure, I probably would have lost it. And it primed me for. I was 18 when I started, 20 when it ended, and it really primed me for what I've done in my adult life. I got very used to long hours and responsibility and knowing a lot of lines, and it was such a Fun set too. So that, that always, that always helps. And you know, there's days where it was. It was difficult, but I look back on it and it was really fun. And I felt like I was in some kind of, some kind of where I wasn't really thinking about it too much because also to go from a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Show where, you know, you were, you were a child amongst so many adults to then be a part of a show where you are around more people your age.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh my God. I know. I felt like quite a change. It was crazy. I like felt like the. I felt like the grandma. Yeah, they were all going out on weekends and I was like staying in because I was so tired.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I had Keri Russell on the show and she was part of the Mickey Mouse Club. And she talks a lot about how she kind of escaped like that weird childhood transition. Because I'm sure you've seen these great actors who have had really rough goes through their teen years and do you ever step back and sort of think about how it could have gone differently or you just also seem like a person who has her head screw down really tight and it would be hard.

[Kiernan Shipka]

To be hard to unscrew. It'd be hard to unscrew. In fact, I'm trying all the time. Like, I think I. There's no real like ceiling. I'm such a kind of control y perfectionistic. That's just, that's just sort of my nature. It's just how I'm built. So I think I was. I sort of went in the opposite direction where I think that was put in my head so much of like, oh, this could go wrong. Like, make sure that you have your head on your shoulders. And I was like, let me screw it on so tight that there's like no room for anything. Solder it, solder it. So that happened. And I think I definitely had my set of issues and stuff that I dealt with in the mental health space, but it was less acting out and it was more acting in. Like, I think I sort of isolated myself and all the stuff that I was dealing with was really internal and it wasn't really like out in the world, let me go.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, how do you take care of yourself in those moments when you're.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Feeling it's been a journey. I mean, love a book. Like, I feel like if I don't have a self help book in my hand, I just lose it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love that. That's honestly, if you have any like good titles that you're like, oh, read this one, please pass them along.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I'm reading this book called Way of Integrity right now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Which is by Martha Beck.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And it's very good. And it's about not lying, and it's about. And she sort of talks about how, like, we all tell these, like, little micro, little lies to, like, please other people and just, like, get by and how it, like, slowly kind of eats away at us, but even, like, a How are you? And, you know, you say good to sort of get on with your day, but, like, what if you're not good? It's like those.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I used to do this.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Joe things. I used to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I used to do this joke literally on the carpet at the Emmy Awards. Oh, my God, it's such a circus. You're. There's so many people to see, and, like, everyone's just looking, and people are talking to you, but they're not really looking at you. They're looking over your shoulder. I'm totally victim of it as well, But I started doing this thing where people would be like, how are you? And I'd be like, I'm not good. Do you have a second? And, like, Juliana, yes. Yes. Do you have a second? And like, literally, this is I. A testament to, like, the people I surround myself with, though, are, like, always, like, yes, yes. Come on. Come on. I was like, I'm just like, if.

[Kiernan Shipka]

We can find a corner, J, we can talk about this really quickly. Oh, my God, that's so fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But anyway, I. Speaking of the research, I just removed from the table, so you didn't have to stare at me, but you have had a bonkers year.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It's been kind of. It's been kind of nuts.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's crazy.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It is. It feels wild. It feels wild because it's been. It was a couple years of. Again, like, doing. Doing all the things working. And then for me, I guess I never get into my head that it's gonna come out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But literally, like, you have, like, four things happening, like, in succession, and they all start. Well, what's so striking to me is how different they all are, which is, you know, again, kudos, because, like, I think it's so hard when you do something on television, being both Sabrina and Mav, and now I'm talking about. But, you know, it is hard to break free of those things, so to have so many things happening right now that are so different than one another. I mean, I know right now you're talking a lot about Sweethearts, which I got to watch last night, and it's so great. It's you know, a rom com, which. I'm a big fan of the rom com.

[Kiernan Shipka]

We love a rom com.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We love a rom com.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It's fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Good.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Watch. Watch it with the fans.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Absolutely. Yeah. I love that it references When Harry Met Sally a lot, which is probably the king of all rom coms, truly. And it's also a comedy that takes some real big swings. There's some things that happen to you that I'm like, oh, well, they went there.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yep. It's a bit super bad. It's like super bad next to Harry Pottell.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you think when you read the script? Was it something that was offered to you or did you pursue it?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, it was an offer. I was deeply excited about it right away. I'd been wanting to do comedy. I love comedy. I mean, I grew up doing Second City. Like, I grew up doing the teen troupe on weekends. Second City from 13 to 18 until I aged out improv shows. But we were performing every single weekend. I was like, I love. I love improv. I love comedy so much. And I just never really fell into it in my professional life. So I think that was. That was part of the pull for Sweethearts. And then it just turned out to be such a, like, bonkers cast. Like, so fun. So just delightful. And I think there's just something to be said about having a really fun time on something.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And that was that. And it was great. Yeah, it was really fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you have an opportunity to improv in the movie?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, I think we did. There's like a decent amount of, oh, you can be free here. I mean, I think for me, Mad Men was word for word. Like, if you said they're. And it's supposed to be, they are, someone's coming up to you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And going, that's not what it was. We have to get it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Word for word. And I think even just like a level of freedom that, you know, is not. Is not deeply locked in was. Was kind of what Sweethearts was. And that was really fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tell me the name of your co star again.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, Nico Hiraga.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's so great, isn't he?

[Kiernan Shipka]

So cute.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's so. You guys have incredible chemistry together. Thank you.

[Kiernan Shipka]

We did a chemistry read.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you? Okay.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Anytime that I have been on the side of the chemistry read where I already have booked the part, I think I've known pretty instantly when the person came in that it was gonna be them.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And that's how it felt with Nico.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You guys are great together. I love the movie. And then another one that, you know, people are so excited about that you probably don't have a lot to say about it just yet, but I'm so excited. Just know that I'm so excited. Last Showgirl.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. It's gonna be fun.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've been hearing we're kind of in.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Q and A season right now, and it's been really like, the response has.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Been amazing with Jamie Lee Curtis.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yes. Jlc. Pamela Anderson.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Pamela Anderson.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Brenda Song. Billie Lore, Dave Bautista. Honorary showgirl.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right?

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, first of all, did you watch the documentary about Pamela Anderson? No.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I kind of. Once I learned that I was doing it, I like sort of weighed my options and was like, she's such an icon. She's such a sort of front facing that we all have a relationship to. And we all know I'm just gonna strip it all away.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And it was like working with her on a daily basis. I kind of forgot that it was Pam Anderson just in our own little 18 day shoot world where it was quick and fast and dirty and there was really, I don't know, it was sort of a conscious. Oh, do I, Do I not? And I went with, I do not.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's perfectly smart. Yeah. I mean, it's an. It's a really fascinating documentary and she's an incredibly resilient and inspiring person. I mean, my God. And I'm so excited to see, you know, I mean, this whole cast, you included, like in these wildly different roles.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know her so, so much from Baywatch.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which is how I grew up with her. But like, what was it like seeing her in such a different part?

[Kiernan Shipka]

I mean, it's amazing. I mean, she'll joke, she's like, this is the first good script that I've ever read in my entire life. And it was a journey to actually get the script to her and get her to say yes. And it was a whole thing. But it's amazing because when we were working together, we were working very closely every single day. And I was seeing all the like, I mean, it was really the demands of the role and this sort of daily challenges and things that she had to face. Just playing something so intense. And she just rose every single time and did such an incredible job being so vulnerable, doing really scary, really hard work every single day. It was so stunning and it was so raw. It was like I couldn't. I almost couldn't believe what I was seeing. And it was really brave. And I think it really, it that kind of work, that kind of honest work is really taxing. And I saw her give 150% every single day. So to see it pay off in such an amazing way is incredible. Like it reads on screen so beautifully.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love being able to go there with the character, but you can't do it unless you're surrounded by a group of actors that make you feel safe.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I can only imagine that this ensemble is just a very special group of people. Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It was like a little family. And again, it was. We were living and shooting in Las Vegas, living in a hotel, going down the stairs every single morning at like 6am shooting until 4 because we had to get out of the dressing room because real dancers needed to come in. So it was this very sort of intimate familial experience. And you write the best. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that happens in the movie that my favorite moments of the movie are just not scripted. But that's, I mean, Giacoppola is so amazing and she just has this amazing way of going, oh, just do that. Just keep doing that for like a minute. Can we get that? And it all. To see it all cut together is really, really cool. It's cool to see someone really work and do what they do best and then see it all cut together. It's like, I know, it's mind blowing. I learned so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Kiernan tells me about why she looks up to Nicolas Cage watching girls as a woman in her 20s. And what kind of projects would scare her most. Okay, be right back.

[Kiernan Shipka]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Kiernan Shipka]

Like, watching Jamie work, I was like, oh my God, this is a masterclass that I'm just sitting in on right now. I feel like I need to pay for this, you know, kind of thing. And it's really, it's amazing, especially as I get older. Like, I think that when I was younger, my focus was kind of on, oh, this is acting. It's so fun. I love, you know, performing. And the older I get, the more I realize how much it is just about connecting with other people and learning from the people around you. And that's been like, the cherry on top is, oh my gosh. I actually, the most excited I get is when I get a scene with someone else that I'm excited about or working with this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm venture out to say that a lot of actors don't say what you just said. I think there's a difference between performers and actors.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Interesting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I think that what you just said is such an integral thing about what an act. Like this is where this is what theater people talk about all the time. Not to put them, oh God, looked like an earthquake just happened.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Peter, let's go.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But you know, not to put theater people above any other type of actors. But I do think there is that thing about connection. And not all people who love acting get that. And I think there's something really special about people who look at it through that lens. Because there are great actors who I think are working now that don't ever get that. I don't know. It just struck me that you said that because I think it's your. I don't know. I don't want to say you're young to be thinking that because you've been working in this. You've actually had a longer career than I have.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Like 19 years or something.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Truly.

[Kiernan Shipka]

So silly. So silly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. I just think it's.

[Kiernan Shipka]

We came up together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, basically.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, we really did, actually.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. You were doing your first Gerber campaign when I was getting my first paid job.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we were. We were, you know, boots on the ground.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What kind of, like, actors do you admire now? I mean, speaking of people like Jamie Lee Curtis.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, I mean, she's my go to at the moment. Just because I feel like I just got to see her really work and do the thing. I've been thinking about Nic Cage a lot recently, just because I think that, like, even with, like, like, with long legs, like, he just, like, takes fun, bold. Makes bold choices and takes big, big sort of risks, and I love that. But I guess I really just like people who feel fearless on screen. Like, my favorite thing is just going, oh, they're just going for it. Like, I just did the. I just did a girls rewatch. Ugh. I just think it's so good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

There's this incredible scene. I mean, it's Lena Dunham. Talk about fearless. And, like, putting herself out there. There's this incredible scene where she's having an argument. I don't know the circumstances of this scene exactly. She's only wearing a shirt. Pantless, you know, no pants. And they're like, cover up your stuff. And she pulls down her shirt so it covers up her vagina and her tit pops out. And I just. It's such great physical comedy.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it also says so much about the character. Yeah, I really admire all those.

[Kiernan Shipka]

They, like, go. They, like, pee in the show. And it's like. There's like a. Like, I feel like they're always, like, having a conversation and then, like, one of them just, like, goes, you know, to the bathroom and it's like, yes, that is. That's what happens.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. I have such a great appreciation for the big swings.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I agree. I think that I was really. One thing that I'm. That I think about more and that I try to do more now is just, like, fail yeah. For lack of a better term. Or at least do something that could possibly go terribly wrong. Because I think I was so, like, scared for a minute there of, like, doing so. And that you don't grow from that. You don't change from that. And I think that's. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is there something like that would scare you? I mean, do you always.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Theater.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Theater.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Sure. Because I've never done it before outside of children's. Children's theater, outside of the Youth Academy of Dramatic arts, yada on 3rd Street.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But listen, everyone's gotta start somewhere.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I mean, a lot of people came out on stage. Oh, I would love to go. I would love to be on stage. But one day for sure.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And that was incredible. In Chekhov.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Or something like, really sophisticated.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, I take that as a compliment.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Thank you. Yeah. How about you? What scares me?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I feel if I'm not scared by something, it's not always worth doing. So thankfully, I'm scared by lots of things. I'm about to go do a musical that scares me. I haven't done a musical in over 15 years. I'm always scared to do classical theater. I'm about to do Shakespeare in the park with some, like, Titans. I always feel like, oh, this is gonna be the one where they realize I'm terrible at Shakespeare. And then I end up pulling it out somehow and I end up doing okay. Yeah. I think I might direct something amazing, which would be really cool. Yeah.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Wonderful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. So, you know, stuff that takes me really out of my comfort zone.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did John ever direct an episode?

[Kiernan Shipka]

He did. He directed maybe two. And then Slattery. John Slattery.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes. I knew he directed.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Also directed two. Yeah. More than a few. I mean, I love an actor. Director.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I do, too. We had Bryan Cranston direct a few of our episodes.

[Kiernan Shipka]

That's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Really intimidating.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. That's terrifying. Terrifying, but he's not terrifying.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No. The next all the fear was completely from me.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Now that you mentioned Bryan Cranston, one of my favorite memories of Nolan Gould is I think he broke his arm.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Kiernan Shipka]

And he was at the Emmys with his chest. And he got Bryan Cross Cranston to sign his cast. Was getting all of these amazing people to sign his cast, and I was like, damn, I really should break my arm. Or at least time it right next time it coincides with the show.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was, like, so geeking out. I was geeking out about Kristen Wiig at the time, and I remember she was like. And it was when she Was doing that character like, oh, don't make me sing.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, don't make me dance.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Don't make me dance.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Don't make me sing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And she was sitting across the aisle from me, one of the first years that she was nominated for supporting actress in a comedy. And I went up to her like, oh, my God, I'm getting sweaty just thinking about this. I basically asked her. I pulled out my. Oh. Oh, dang.

[Kiernan Shipka]

What'd you do?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I pulled out my camera.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I pulled out my phone.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Embarrassing Emmy stories.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, no. Oh, God. I'm really actually getting palpitations from this. I pulled out my phone. I said, would you. Me and my boyfriend Justin.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My boyfriend at the time, we obsessed with the don't make me sing character. Would you, like, do it? Like, basically, I asked her to perform it for me with the camera. I put on my camera, like, putting it in her face. And she was so generous. My God. She's like, oh, no, not right now. And I was like, of course, of course, of course. And I absolutely miss Wick.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I am so sorry.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was probably, like, our first season, and I was just, like, so starstruck by everyone.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And the thing is, I was at this last Emmy Awards presenting, and she was in room with me. Kristen Wiig was in a room with me. And I really have had very little interaction with her since that moment. Maybe, like, waves across the room or something. And I was thinking, like, I need to take this opportunity to go up to her and apologize for how awful that was.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And, like, just be like, I'm better now. I'm a better person now. I promise. I'm much cooler.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Oh, my God. I've been.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I still freaked out. I wasn't able to approach her.

[Kiernan Shipka]

That is so wild.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So if this ever gets back to her, I just want her to know that.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Sorry, Kristin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She probably doesn't remember. Or maybe she does.

[Kiernan Shipka]

It's okay. We all make mistakes. That's. That's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Then I talk about how I love a big swing, but I did not like that big swing.

[Kiernan Shipka]

Well, I like it because I feel like it probably shaped you in some kind of way. Like, you know. You know, next time, I'm going to approach it differently.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I am so glad you said yes to this.

[Kiernan Shipka]

I'm. I will have lunch with you any day of the week. Also, coffee. Such a good move, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm going to finish this. And don't worry about leaving anything. Dinner's on me.

[Kiernan Shipka]

What? Next time, dinner will be on me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you, Jessie. This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at forage in Silver Lake, California. Next week on Dinners on Me. She's an actor with over 150 credits to her name. I mean, you've literally seen her in everything from rom coms like the Wedding Singer to Marvel's Ant man franchise. And coming up next is her holiday film, the Best Christmas Pageant Ever. It's Judy Greer. We talk about her deciding to walk 16 miles to a party in the valley, which actor she envied when she was coming up, and who made her absolutely starstruck. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vanguard. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.