MATT BOMER — on channeling Rose Nylund and getting excused from ‘White Collar’

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Episode Summary

Episode Title: MATT BOMER — on Channeling Rose Nylund and Getting Excused from ‘White Collar’
Release Date: April 8, 2025
Host: Jesse Tyler Ferguson
Guest: Matt Bomer
Location: Merroy, West Hollywood, atop the Pendry Hotel on the Sunset Strip

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1. Reconnecting After 25 Years

Jesse Tyler Ferguson begins the episode by reminiscing about his long-standing friendship with Matt Bomer, whom he met over 25 years ago in New York City. Jesse shares how their bond has remained strong despite Matt's rising fame, highlighting Matt’s impressive career trajectory from "White Collar" to "Mid Century Modern."

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [05:05]: "Over the years, Matt and I stayed close and I watched his career..."

2. Career Highlights and Achievements

The conversation delves into Matt’s notable roles, including his performance in "White Collar," "Magic Mike," "The Normal Heart" (which earned him a Golden Globe), and his recent acclaim in "Fellow Travelers," garnering Emmy and Golden Globe nominations. Jesse expresses immense pride in Matt’s professional accomplishments and his advocacy for LGBTQ rights.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [05:23]: "I just was so moved watching you... accept a massive award like that for an incredible performance."

3. Collaborating on "Mid Century Modern"

Jesse and Matt discuss their collaboration on Matt’s new Hulu comedy, "Mid Century Modern," where Matt stars alongside Nathan Lane, Nathan Lee Graham, and the late Linda Lavin. Jesse reflects on the emotional significance of working with Linda Lavin, who sadly passed away shortly after filming.

Matt Bomer [07:38]: "She was such a shining light, as you saw on that set."

4. Inspirations and Influences

Matt shares his admiration for Nathan Lane, recounting how Nathan influenced his development as an actor during his high school years. Both discuss the profound impact of influential figures like Nathan Lane and Larry Kramer on their personal and professional lives.

Matt Bomer [11:07]: "Nathan Lane was such a huge part of my awakening as a human being."

5. Navigating Intimate Scenes and Improvisation

Jesse and Matt explore the complexities of performing intimate scenes in "Fellow Travelers." Matt emphasizes the importance of having an intimacy coordinator and the trust between actors to create authentic and meaningful interactions.

Matt Bomer [20:26]: "We would improvise within the intimacy while staying inside the boundaries of what felt safe."

A memorable moment includes Matt humorously admitting to improvising a scene by licking a co-star’s armpit:

Matt Bomer [21:32]: "That was improvised. I knew it. Yeah. Also, when I licked my hand after that moment."

6. Personal Life and Parenthood

The duo transitions to discussing Matt’s personal life, particularly his journey into fatherhood alongside his husband, Simon. Matt shares heartfelt stories about creating a sense of presence for his young children despite his demanding acting career.

Matt Bomer [34:03]: "I made a children's book for them... It was a way for them and a format that they understood."

Jesse echoes similar sentiments, reflecting on the challenges and rewards of being a father while maintaining a career in the public eye.

7. Coming Out and Its Impact on Career

Matt recounts his experience of coming out publicly, initially facing unsolicited media attention about his personal life. He expresses relief after coming out, allowing him to focus more authentically on his roles without the burden of hiding his sexuality.

Matt Bomer [40:16]: "I was so happy to be working and to have a job where I thought, oh, this is gonna come back for another season maybe."

8. Reflections on Authenticity and Growth

Both Jesse and Matt reflect on their growth as individuals and actors. They discuss how embracing their true selves has enriched their performances and personal lives, highlighting the importance of authenticity in both acting and parenting.

Matt Bomer [42:17]: "As an actor, I was suddenly able to access parts of myself that I never could before."

9. Memorable Moments and Humor

The conversation is peppered with humorous anecdotes, including Matt’s tale of flying overnight with the late Joan Rivers and Jesse’s playful remarks about restaurant dishes and their interactions over the meal.

Matt Bomer [45:42]: "She has it down."

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [35:12]: "It's like doing the Ariel Little Mermaid part of your world."

10. Looking Forward

As the episode wraps up, Jesse teases the next episode featuring Jane Lynch, promising engaging conversations about her work and personal life. Both hosts express excitement for listeners to witness Matt’s comedic prowess in "Mid Century Modern."

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [49:26]: "I cannot wait for people to see your comic genius in Modern."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson [05:05]: "Over the years, Matt and I stayed close and I watched his career..."

• Matt Bomer [11:07]: "Nathan Lane was such a huge part of my awakening as a human being."

• Matt Bomer [21:32]: "That was improvised. I knew it. Yeah. Also, when I licked my hand after that moment."

• Matt Bomer [34:03]: "I made a children's book for them... It was a way for them and a format that they understood."

• Matt Bomer [42:17]: "As an actor, I was suddenly able to access parts of myself that I never could before."

• Matt Bomer [45:42]: "She has it down."

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Conclusion

In this heartfelt and engaging episode of "Dinner’s on Me," Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Matt Bomer explore the depths of their long-lasting friendship, Matt’s impressive career, personal growth, and the challenges and joys of balancing family life with a demanding acting career. Rich with personal anecdotes, humor, and profound insights, the conversation offers listeners a glimpse into the authentic lives of two beloved actors navigating fame, friendship, and parenthood.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm here in London, knee deep in rehearsals for Here We Are at the National Theater, the late, great Stephen Sondheim's final musical. And it's been an incredible experience so far. But between the long days of learning lyrics and blocking scenes, I've come to appreciate a good system that makes everything run smoothly, like Airbnb's co hosting feature. Now, if you're a host and you're juggling life like I am right now, a local co host can handle the details while you focus on your big projects. They can manage guest communication, check ins, and everything in between. So whether you're hosting while traveling or simply need some help, you can rest easy knowing someone reliable is looking after your place. And the best part? These co hosts are local pros who know your area inside and out, ensuring your guests have an unforgettable stay. And you can focus on what matters most. So whether you're looking to host or need a hand while you're away, find a co [e-mail] host this episode is.

[Matt Bomer]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi, it's Jesse today on the show. You know him from his six seasons on the USA series White Collar and from his new sitcom Mid Century Modern, it's Matt Bomer.

[Matt Bomer]

And then I flew back on the overnight. I sat next to Joan Rivers, God bless her soul, who was amazing and really knew how to do the overnight flight. Yeah, she passed out as we were ascending and woke up as we were descending. I was like, you got this down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She has it down. This is Dinner's on Me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Fergus. Listen, friendships with deep history are truly so special. There's something about someone knowing you when you were in your 20s, knowing your struggles, your bad style, your terrible haircuts. Friends with that intel, that perspective are so special, they're also scary because they probably have a lot of material to blackmail you with. Now, Matt Bomer is one of those friends for me. Not that I'm afraid he's going to blackmail me. At least I hope not. I met Matt in New York over 25 years ago through a mutual friend at the East Village restaurant where he was waiting tables. Now, funny enough, it was his last shift before he was about to start work on his first big acting job. He was starting the very next day on All My Children. I remember being so excited for him, Someone who was my age, someone I knew was getting a big break on television, and I don't know, maybe one day that could happen for me. Over the years, Matt and I stayed close and I watched his care. White collar traveler, Magic Mike, the Normal Heart, which earned him a Golden Globe. And most recently, Fellow Travelers, where he delivered a stunning performance that earned him an Emmy and Golden Globe nomination. But even more inspiring than his career, has been watching his family grow and seeing him become such a passionate advocate for LGBTQ rights and family equality. Recently, I had the chance to work with Matt for the very first time, actually guest starring on his new Hulu comedy, Mid Century Moder. He stars alongside Nathan Lane, who's also been on this podcast, Nathan Lee Graham, and the late great Linda Lavin. Linda sadly passed away just weeks after we filmed together, which makes the experience even more meaningful. In hindsight. It was so special to reconnect with Matt, reminiscing about our history, talking about his family, remembering Linda, and of course, celebrating his fantastic new show. And let me tell you, in Mid Century Modern, Matt Bomer is absolutely hilarious. I can't wait for you to see it. Hi.

[Matt Bomer]

Hi. How are you? Hi.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I brought Matt Bomer to Merroy in West Hollywood. It's perched on top of the Pendry Hotel on the Sunset Strip, which means we get sweeping views of the city while pretending you're not completely transfixed by the menu. Designed by chef Wolfgang Puck, the menu is a blend of Asian, French and Californian influences. It features many of the chef's sought after dishes, such as his Peking D and Chinois salad. If it weren't for the sky high views of Los Angeles, the style and vibe of this space reminds me a lot of Palm Springs with the greenery, soft pastels and golden accents, which is fitting because that's the setting of Matt's new show, Mid Century Modern. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, I've known you for. It's. I don't even. Should we even say how long we've known each other?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I. Okay, I. We can. And it's been. It's over. It was before 2000. It's over 25 years.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, because it was. It was 2000.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was right before you did All My Children. I'm a little older than you, but we're about the same age. But I remember you were, like, the first friend who got a soap opera. And we were like, no fucking way. Are you. Like, it was really exciting. Like, he is.

[Matt Bomer]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's. He's going places. But I do remember, like, after you won the Golden Globe for Normal Heart, I think either I called you or I sent a text message. It's like, I just. I'm so proud of you. I just. You know, I get very emotional when I see people whose whole career I've seen unfold in front of my eyes. And I really. I mean, I saw you the day before you started your first big job.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it was your last day as a waiter. And I just. I was so moved watching you, you know, stand on stage in front of all your peers and, like, accept a massive award like that for an incredible performance.

[Matt Bomer]

I felt the same about you. Cause all I ever wanted to do was theater at the time. And I remember coming to see all of your shows on Broadway, and I remember you telling me about the pilot of Modern Family.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, really?

[Matt Bomer]

You're like, I think I'm gonna get this job. And it's a really great script. And then you told me about the pilot of that. And then I remember seeing it being like, oh, my gosh. This is one of the best things I've ever seen in my life. I remember the first. The first day we showed up on the pilot of Mid Century Modern. The parking spot I had was right next to a big truck that had a Modern Family advertisement on it. But it also talked about how many people it had employed in Los Angeles, which I thought was what a cool thing to have.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, they were doing that for a while. Like, a lot of the props trucks would have a poster of the cast and then how many people they employed in la. I actually just today got an approval for a little promo for Mid Century Modern.

[Matt Bomer]

Oh, great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Advertising on the guest stars, which I was lucky enough to do.

[Matt Bomer]

Nice. Oh, you were phenomenal.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I had so much fun that week.

[Matt Bomer]

What was your character's name again? We didn't have scenes together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, what was his name? We had no scenes together. His name is Tevin.

[Matt Bomer]

Tevin. Tevin. Oh, my gosh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No. I mean, I am such fans of the creators of the show. I loved Will and Grace. And then to have you and Nathan Lane and Nathan Lee Graham and Linda Lavin. Rest in peace. And we're talking about her. To have you all on set and then Vanessa Bayer as one of the other guest stars. It was just a Dream come true. It was an incredible. And, Matt, I know you're funny, but, like, I can't wait for, like, America to see how funny you really are in this role specifically. You're so fantastic.

[Matt Bomer]

Oh, my gosh. That's very kind of you to say. I honestly feel like there was an icons only party happening, and they were like, but we'll let Matt just come hang out, Be a fly on the wall. And I was just, like, grabbing onto Nathan Lane and Nathan Leigh and Linda's coattails and going, okay, you know, you gotta figure it out. Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Incredible. And I mean, I love. Thank you so much. Are we ordering food or are things just appearing? I think things are just appearing today. Oh, I like that. I like that when you just appear.

[Matt Bomer]

We're an easy audience.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We are such an easy audience. But the concept of the show is so great. I mean, I guess, like, the top line would be like, it's basically a gay Golden Girls, and it's a spiritual.

[Matt Bomer]

Sister cousin to Golden Girls. It's about Found Family, which I think that show had a lot to say. And within a lot of humor and wit, I think it. It tries to address certain social issues and things like that. And so I think it has a little bit of Norman Lear in there, too. But, yeah, I can see why folks would draw that comparison. I would say some of the archetypes are similar. Some are maybe a little bit different.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You definitely got a lot of rose in you.

[Matt Bomer]

I got a lot of rose in me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, who doesn't want to, you.

[Matt Bomer]

Know, a little bit of Phoebe maybe in there, too, you know?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. All these icons who I absolutely adore. I mean, who doesn't want to have a little Betty White in them? But, I mean, what I was so impressed with is, you know, having been a fan of Will and Grace and, you know, this is a show that's on a streamer. So, like, there's so much more they can do.

[Matt Bomer]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

With just themes, but also language. And there's cussing. And it gets very blue. And some of the jokes are. They really go right up to the line.

[Matt Bomer]

Oh, my gosh. Well, you know, we would do alternative takes that really just Carl Lewis right over that line. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love that.

[Matt Bomer]

It's hard for me to really be shocked enough to be like, should we do that? Because I'm pretty much game for anything. But there were a couple times I was like, okay, let's see what happens. But, you know, Jimmy Burrows. Jimmy Burrows, Max Muchnik, David Cohan. I mean, they're Just absolute legends. And so they could ask me to just walk out and do a cartwheel, and I wouldn't ask a question about it. I would just do it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, this is the second thing I got to do with Jimmy Burrows. And I've always felt like I'm in good hands with him, and it was so great to be reunited with him after the class.

[Matt Bomer]

What did you do?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He did all the class.

[Matt Bomer]

Oh, he did?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes. So, you know, I worked with him almost 20 years ago. Oh, wow. And it was such a lovely thing to come back together with him and get to work with. Cause I never thought I'd get to work with him again. I shadowed him.

[Matt Bomer]

It was such a great show.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was a good show.

[Matt Bomer]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. But I do want to talk about, first of all, working with Nathan Lane, which we both have in common. I've talked about this at nauseum, and I think Nathan, he really does get sick of hearing me say, like, how much of a hero he is of mine. But I always dreamed of working with him. And when I found out he was being cast as Pepper in Modern Family, I lost my mind. And, like, the first day I got to work with him, I just. I glommed onto him, and I was like, I need him to know that I'm cool and I'm going to be a lifer with him. And, like, we have so much in common. Like, I was just grilling about theater. Like, I don't know. I felt like it was my turn. Turn to step up and, like, be Nathan's best friend.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just adore him so much, love him profoundly.

[Matt Bomer]

To say that he is an idol is an understatement. I feel like he was such a huge part of my awakening as human being.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What did you know?

[Matt Bomer]

So the first time I encountered him, I feel like a big part of my development as a person was in the drama club closet at my high school, which says a lot on a metaphorical level and a real level. But I would just sit in there, and honestly, sometimes I would read plays, sometimes I would just leaf through them. But I remember reading Lisbon Traviata and falling in love with it when I was, like, 14 or 15 and seeing him on the COVID of it with the blanket over his head. And then I would do a scene from that. It took me a couple years before I started getting into musicals, before I got into Forum and Guys and Dolls and all that. But obviously that was a huge moment, too. So by the time Birdcage came around, I was, like, firmly in the camp of Nathan Lee.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

And now getting to work with him, I mean, he's just. He's as, you know, such a wonderful, generous person. He was always there for me. He just has a huge heart, and he's so singular as a performer.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

There's no one else who can do what he does the way he does it. He's completely singular, and I don't know that it will ever be replicated. You know, he's just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I hope not.

[Matt Bomer]

Welcome. Welcome to Marijuana. My name is Danny. Hi, Danny.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I have a few items here that.

[Matt Bomer]

Some of our favorites at the restaurant, some of my personal favorites as well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm over here.

[Matt Bomer]

We have coffee glazed ribs, pickled Fresnos.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And fried curry leaves, followed by one of our staples, which is Shinhua chicken salad, followed by our chicken dumplings with dandan sauce.

[Matt Bomer]

And we have our lobster spring rolls.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just put this in your lap. There's no room. No promises. Oh, my God. Wow. You cannot be mad if we don't finish all this. What if we just finish all this?

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, my inner Texan might finish it all.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow, this is so much food. Thank you. It looks incredible.

[Matt Bomer]

Thank you. Please have a wonderful evening.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you so much. Now, when did White Collar happen?

[Matt Bomer]

White Collar. I got the pilot in 2008 and filmed the pilot in 2008, and then the series went 2009.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That was the same time as Modern Family then, because. Yeah, yeah, I think we were 2009.

[Matt Bomer]

2000, and then we did six seasons.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, that was a moment when I realized, oh, Matt's on, like, another level now. Like, I felt like your career just took, like, a turn and you were being considered for, like, really cool film roles. Like, if there was, like, a Superman part that way, like, if they're recasting Superman, you're always on those lists. Like, you know, like, the list that I would never be on.

[Matt Bomer]

I was honestly just so happy to be working and to have a job where I thought, oh, this is gonna come back for another season maybe. And it was in. We got to film in New York City, which was such a dream come true to me, and I was getting to film in all these places that I'd gotten to see from an outsider. But I'd never been in a Upper east side penthouse before or anything like that, and residential Forest Hills or anything. So it was just. And everyone in the cast, we just bonded so beautifully, and it was the most easy, joyful work environment I've ever had.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I Always find it wild when I'm shooting in New York, having struggled there for so long. I remember I was shooting an episode of Elsbeth and I was shooting right outside of like a coffee shop I used to work at. And it was, I don't know, I felt like a very full circle moment. Like, I definitely don't take those moments in my life for granted. Like, I feel like, okay, I'm being placed here for a very special, specific reason. To acknowledge how far I've come and how lucky I am too.

[Matt Bomer]

We are so extraordinarily lucky.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We're so lucky.

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, you're one of the most talented people I know, so you're obviously prepared for when that opportunity presented itself. But just for us to even get the opportunity, we've been so lucky.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean. Yeah, I agree. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Matt tells me about improvising in sex scenes for fellow travelers and losing his mid century modern co star, great Linda Lavin. Okay, be right back. I don't know about you, but when I was a kid, one of my favorite errands was going to the deli counter with my parents. I'd press my nose against the glass, watching as they sliced the perfect cut of turkey or ham. And if I was lucky, I'd get a sample handed over the counter like a little gift. Now, as a dad, I love the idea of recreating that experience with my own kids. Picking up some Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey or Smokemaster Beechwood Smoked Black Forest Ham and some aged cheddar for a picnic in the park. Because there's making a sandwich and then there's crafting a sandwich. Boar's Head uses premium whole cuts of meat, hand trimmed and slow roasted to perfection. Every flavor is carefully chosen and every recipe is crafted with purpose. So when I want a meal to be truly great, I choose Boar's Head. And I know when we spread out the picnic blanket just like I did when I was a kid, it'll be a meal worth remembering. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at Boar's Head dot com. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Nissan. These days, it feels like the world and our lives are moving at hyperspeed. I mean, that's why I love doing this podcast. It's a chance to slow down, to truly connect with another human being and to enjoy the feeling of actually being in the present moment. On that note, I am Very excited that Dinners On Me is partnering with Nissan because Nissan understands that sometimes the greatest rush comes from not rushing at all. And with the all new Nissan Murano, you can enjoy an unapologetic refuge amidst the daily hustle and bustle of life. The Nissan Murano is not just a vehicle. It's a space where you can take a beat to catch your breath and re energize to be in the present moment. And trust me, this is the moment you'll want to be in and drive in. The Nissan Murano features an elevated modern interior design and a bold new exterior look. Plus, the expansive panoramic moonroof adds tons of natural light to the roomy cabin. With massaging leather appointed seats to help melt away the tension of the day and ambient moonlighting with 64 color options to set the vibe just right. What's not to love? So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Dinner's on Me and for reminding us to take a moment and breathe. Learn more about the all new nissan [e-mail] Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. By the way, last week I started watching Fellow Travelers very late because everyone's like, you gotta watch this show. First of all, it's fantastic. And I'm like four episodes in now, but you two are so good together. You're so incredible. Also, you know, if I'm blushing a little bit as I'm sitting here across the street, the table for me is because I've seen a lot of you in the past week.

[Matt Bomer]

You've seen a lot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Doing a lot of things.

[Matt Bomer]

Doing a lot, a lot of things.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

To a lot of people.

[Matt Bomer]

To a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was. I'm so grateful we were able to get that show made.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, I don't know that it would happen today.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was gonna ask if you thought it would.

[Matt Bomer]

We got so lucky. First of all, I got so lucky because I read it in two days, called them and said, oh, we have to do this. But the cynic in me was going, I'll help you guys pitch this or produce however I can, but there's no way this is gonna sell.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Why did you think it wouldn't?

[Matt Bomer]

I just wasn't sure if the marketplace as a business would put their money where their mouth was for a queer period piece that took place in multiple decades. And I was wrong. I was overly cynical. I'm just so grateful because Obviously, it couched in a lot of those, you know, the interplay between the characters, some of which was sexual, but also there was a ton of political intrigue, and it had so much to say about our country and our history, and people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Speaking about the Lavender scare, which is such a specific point in our history, but also hearing a lot of that same rhetoric that was being spoken to the LGBTQ community then being echoed today, it just felt so relevant in a way that was terrifying.

[Matt Bomer]

It was terrifying. Obviously, I would never hope for it to be relevant in that way, but it has been shocking and even more so recently.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've never had to do super intimate scenes on screen before. Yeah, I've done some stuff on stage, but walk me through how much preparation, dialogue there was before, because these scenes there are. They're highly choreographed, highly physical, very sexual. Also very intimate in many, many ways. But, I mean, it felt very lived in in a way that I think sometimes, you know, when you're watching people be intimate on screen, it's hard to achieve.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was there an intimacy coordinator? Did you guys talk through all these?

[Matt Bomer]

There was an intimacy coordinator. She was great, I think. I think she did a great job of. You know, I think why they're so vital and important is because, you know, as someone who's had to do those kinds of scenes, starting from when I was on that Soap Opera in 2000, you know, when you didn't have an intermediary, it was sometimes hard to communicate any boundaries you might have to other people. But then Johnny and I really kind of knew what each other's boundaries were. And I think we were always trying to think about what was the story we were trying to tell underneath the intimacy. Like, how were we different after the scene than before? So what was kind of the arc of that scene supposed to be? But we would also improvise within the intimacy while staying inside the boundaries of what felt safe. And I think that permission allowed it to live in a way that could have felt stilted or overly choreographed if we hadn't had that freedom with each other.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm gonna ask you about one moment, and you're gonna tell me if it was improvised. You licked his armpit.

[Matt Bomer]

That was improvised. I knew it. Yeah. Also, when I licked my hand after that moment.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

After that moment. Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, I guarantee you there was no conversation about. And then you lick his armpit. But it was so bad.

[Matt Bomer]

That's what I'm talking about.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was so real, and it was so. I don't know, it crackled. It was very. I mean, listen, I enjoy the series. It's great, and it's brave, and I've never seen anything like it. It was really fun to see you play that type of guy, too, especially having just done Mid Century Water with you.

[Matt Bomer]

It's a polar opposite.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. That's what they call versatility.

[Matt Bomer]

Hawk wasn't verse, but.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah. No, he was not. No, he was not.

[Matt Bomer]

Well, hold on. Hold on. Till episode eight.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When I was doing Take Me Out, Scott Ellis brought Linda Lavin back after she saw the performance. And she was so kind to me. It was the first time I'd ever met her. And he's like, I'm taking her to Orzo. And I was like, okay, well, I gotta go do something. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna take this opportunity. I'm gonna go meet them at Orzo. Like, I don't know if I'll ever get to have this moment with this woman who I admire so much. And I sat with Scott and Linda Lavin, and it was the first time I actually got time with her. And I was like, oh, my God, this woman is incredible. It was magical. Now fast forward to when I was asked to do guest spot. I'm at Century Modern, and just knowing that I was gonna be around all of you, you, Nathan and Nathan Lee Graham are all dear friends of mine. But then to get to work with, even if briefly, Linda Lavin, who I just adored so much, was such a huge treat. And I can't tell you how meaningful and impactful that week was, just not only seeing you all thrive in this incredible new show, but also just being around her. I remember after it was Sarah Paulson's birthday was the night before, and I came in to work after that. I had been at Sarah's birthday, and you asked me if I had been there, and I said, oh, yeah. I went. And you're like, yeah. I just. I was nervous about my voice. You know, there's like, Covid's kind of going around. So I decided, you know, I didn't want to go, and just, you know, I wanted to be good. I wanted to be good. I was like, well, you know who was there? Linda Lavin. And you just started laughing. You're like, of course she was. And I was like. And she shut it down.

[Matt Bomer]

Of course, by the way. Of course. I never even knew Linda's age because she was the most vital, cognitively present member of our cast.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

Which obviously made it really shocking. And really upsetting when she passed. She was such a shining light, as you saw on that set. And she carried with her such an inherent easy leadership. I was a huge fan going in, but she was just such an effortless, loving leader on the set. She just was so kind to me and generous to me. And I got to say everything I had wanted to say to her. And we both ended it by saying, I love you. I didn't know that that was gonna be the last conversation we had. I'm so grateful that that was it, you know?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, I spoke to Nathan a little bit about this just personally, but I checked in on him a little bit after she passed. And, you know, just knowing that he had that responsibility to sort of send her off, you know, because she obviously, whatever happened to her had to happen offstage because she had already at that point, passed away. I just. I mean, I can't imagine how difficult those scenes must have been to shoot.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, I wouldn't wish it on anybody. You know, I'm so grateful that we were able to honor her and pay tribute to her. I can't think of another time in a career or another medium where you'd ever have to be processing something and performing it at the same time. Because we shut down for one week for the writers to collect themselves and then we had to go right into it. It's times like that that you really are grateful that you're working with these incredible veteran director actors who know how to kind of gently steer the ship in a situation like that. And I remember obviously rehearsing that all week. I think we were all kind of, you know, mourning, but also protecting ourselves. And then I remember looking to Nathan Lane and Nathan Lee and something was like roiling in Nathan Lane. I mean, I could tell something was coming through him. And so I think we all just tried to kind of get out of our own way and pay tribute to her character and her hopefully at the same time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

First of all, I want to hear how you like this part of the process. But on those multi camera sitcoms of you're doing it in front of a live audience and if something's not working, the writers will huddle and come up with a whole new, sometimes whole new scene on occasion, but at least, you know, like new monologues and paragraphs. And it'll come to you. And they don't hand you pages of written changes. They tell them to you and you repeat them back. And then they say, okay, let's roll it. And you just do it. And they had Written me a chunk of dialogue that was like, I don't know how I'm gonna remember all this. And you wanna get it right because the audience is there and they don't wanna struggle. They're hearing it for the first struggle. Yeah, they're hearing it. And, you know, it's fun to watch actors mess up once or twice, but if it starts to become more than that, they start to get nervous for you, and you feel that and you start sweating and then you start getting in your head. So I was like, don't go down the rabbit hole before, you know, you can at least get it out of the mouth one time.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I was having a hard time, and it was starting to get to that point where I was like, I'm about to go into my head and Linda Lavin, who was in the scene with me, just looked at me and she just said, nobody is you. Nobody's you. And it was after she said that that I was able to get it.

[Matt Bomer]

Wow.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, she just gave me so much confidence. She's like, you got this. Nobody's you. You're here. Yeah, you're you.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's like leading with heart, right? Like. Yeah. Because obviously, you know, everyone's gonna look to you in certain times. And it was in those times when we all did it always came from love.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

You know, and she's right. Yeah, nobody is you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm so happy that you've been doing more theater recently. You know, the Boys in the Band was such. I was doing a play off Broadway at that time, and I was like, I think I'm the only out gay actor who's not in Boyz in the Band. You know, I had so many good friends in that castle. But there was something so powerful about it, being this cast of successful gay out actors coming together and being a part of this ensemble. First of all, it felt like, how did we get so lucky as to see this play revived with this cast, with this director, and then to have all of you come together and do it for Netflix? It was just. I was like, how are we so lucky?

[Matt Bomer]

I. I love both of the experiences. And when will you ever get to say that you did a play and then did a film with the exact same cast and the same director? It just doesn't happen. So I'm so grateful for that. But the theater experience for me was just the dreamiest thing I ever could have hoped for. And like you mentioned, I didn't know what to Expect from an audience. And the fact that the show sold out and extended it, won the Tony.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Award for best revival.

[Matt Bomer]

Won the Tony was just like, I couldn't have asked for anything. It's partially why I've been. Cause I'm dying to get back to theater in New York.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, but having been able to do A Normal Heart, the TV movie of Normal heart, and then to do Boys in the Band, do these sort of two iconic tent poles of queer theater and then be able to tell those same stories on television, must have. I can only imagine, must have felt so lucky and so meaningful and impactful. I mean.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, both of those plays, if you're looking at, like, the gay canon of, like, plays, those are the two that in Angels of America.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, those are like the three I think about as being the most iconic.

[Matt Bomer]

It all goes back to that drama room closet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

And that's where I discovered Larry Kramer, too. And folks had, like, hinted me in that direction and things. It wasn't like I was just like, individually picking out all these masterful plays. But. But I think he was a huge part of my awakening as a person and really woke me up to things that were going on in the world that nobody around me was talking about in suburban Texas and educated me in a way that I feel like enabled me to kind of enter the world of gay life as a gay man in a way where I could have some sense of responsibility and kind of at least know what was going on in the world around me that I wouldn't have otherwise.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, we have something in common, that we're both dads. And I just. I still don't believe that your kids are as old as they are and you're literally sending everyone off to college and you're almost an empty nester. Yeah. And I'm at the very beginning with a four and a half and a two and a half year old. I just know how complicated it was, you know, to become a father so soon after marriage equality passed.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, and I think about you and Simon, who have been together for.

[Matt Bomer]

Is it like almost 20, 15 years?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. Okay.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You've been married for.

[Matt Bomer]

Since 2011.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

2011.

[Matt Bomer]

We missed that first little window in California. It's so funny, though, because so many people say to me, oh, you've only been married since 2011.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Matt Bomer]

That's when we could do it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

We had been domestic partners, I think, for two years before that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. And you met through Lee Pace.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Lee Pace. Did you know That I didn't know that.

[Matt Bomer]

No. We met through Lee Pace. As you may or may not remember. I had never really dated anybody in the industry. And so I was like, I don't wanna. That's, like, too close to home. And, like, what's a publicist? Is he gonna be, like, on his phone the whole time? Like, I don't know. But, yeah, he. So finally, after a while, I was like, okay, if this guy's still asking, I'll go. And Lee had a little barbecue for the three of us at his house.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so cute.

[Matt Bomer]

We met and just completely hit it off. He was wearing Birkenstocks and cargo shorts. And I was like, okay. Simon was. And I was like, There was something about that I just loved. I was like, this is not what I pictured a publicist to be. And I think it's so cool that he's just his own person. This is before Birkenstocks were really. I guess they never really went out of fashion for him. But now they're really cool. But at the time, they were maybe on the fence a little bit more.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right, right. I don't know. I just kind of think they're on the fence for me still.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, Yeah. I remember Max had me wear them in a scene on the show this year. And I really. It was the one time I was like, do I have to wear brace?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Everyone's also like, they're so comfortable, and your foot becomes one with them. I'm like, it just hurts. I feel like I'm walking on pebbles.

[Matt Bomer]

There's a break in period. That's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't want that break in period.

[Matt Bomer]

No, we don't need that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I want my shoe to just feel good immediately. Give me a Hoka.

[Matt Bomer]

Give me a Hoka. Oh, I love a Hoka. God, I love a Hoka.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A cushy hoka.

[Matt Bomer]

A cushy Hoka. Me and, like, the boom operator, just always in cushy hokas.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

But, yeah, so. And then our second date, he took me to a Stevie Wonder concert, which. Oh, that's a good date.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

It was just a really iconic, amazing experience to have. It's like a first real proper date, you know?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And you were young.

[Matt Bomer]

I was young. I was 29. Or maybe just turned 30.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

To meet someone so young and then also have such longevity is really remarkable.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And to become a dad at such a young age.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. I mean, I had always been like, well, you know, maybe when I'm 40, which seemed like an eternity, which is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When I first became a dad. Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

Okay. Yeah. Like, maybe I'll adopt the kid then.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. To be gay fathers at that time was, I'm sure, a whole other set of, like, you know, hoops to jump through.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We obviously became dads much later in 2020 was our first time, even at the hospital in Vegas. You know, I remember, like, having to fill out forms where I had to cross out mother and put, you know, intended parent. And I mean. And that's, you know, that's. Now I can only imagine how different things must have been when you had your first kid.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. And a lot of that. Cause there was so much before even I came into the picture. He was just one of those people who knew he wanted to have a family. And you know what? It shows in every fiber of his being. While I think he's an unbelievable publicist, seeing him as a father is like. I mean, there's so many times where he's such a good father that I just, like, have to just step aside and just, like, bask in the glory of him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so sweet. I love that.

[Matt Bomer]

You know what I mean? Like, I'm like. I'm not even gonna chime in here because you're handling this so beautifully.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm sure he feels the same way about you at times.

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, at times. At times. At times. I think he's passed the baton a few times, too, but it's just so clearly a role he was born to play.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What is that? You said, I'm gonna bring you one small dish. I said a few. Small dish. You said a few.

[Matt Bomer]

So look at the pectoral fins of this fish. It looks like it could fly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It sizzling fish. It's like doing the Ariel Little Mermaid part of your world. Backbend on this ladder. Part of your world. Wave a binder. Oh, my God. What are you doing? Some pineapple glaze.

[Matt Bomer]

Sure. Wow.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then spring peas that are in season right now. That's actually great.

[Matt Bomer]

Spring peas, Toasted chili, soy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's crab rice.

[Matt Bomer]

And our. This is crab rice.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Crab rice, yes. Crab fried rice. Is it. What's. What's with egg? Wrapped egg? Yeah, it's wrapped in. Oh, my God.

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, I'm blown away.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We're going to do our best. This is incredible. Yeah. Thank you so much.

[Matt Bomer]

Thank you. How do you feel about a whole fish situation coming to the table?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, I love branzino, and usually it comes whole. And if they can do it off in another place where I don't see all yeah. The other things, I'm happy with that.

[Matt Bomer]

Yep.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But if the fish is doing a part of your world. Little Mermaid Backbend Over a Rock.

[Matt Bomer]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I want to see it.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. You need to take that moment in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, that is very good.

[Matt Bomer]

I grew up, like, fishing a lot, and my dad and my brother are both hunters, so I did see a lot of stuff. It's a Texas thing. It really is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Did you feel like it took leaving Texas to sort of really become comfortable in your own skin? It took more than that. Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

It took leaving college to. Yeah, it really did. I think there were just so many things that had been programmed in me from a young age that I didn't know how to make peace with, that I didn't know how to identify with, and that I didn't want to separate myself from, but I knew I had to if I was gonna have any kind of authentic experience as a person.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, all actors have. Well, not all actors. All actors who are queer have a different relationship with the business and how to navigate your way through that. And for me, I think I specifically chose not to deal with it until I feel like I had to.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I don't want it to sound like I. You know, it was something that I. It was a burden to confront, but, like, it also felt like something I just didn't want to draw attention to and put flags around until it felt like it was important enough to do that same.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Also, being a part of the theater community, it just sort of felt like, well, there's absolutely no need to cross that bridge right now. I felt very supported, and I just felt very much myself around these groups of people. And it wasn't until really, Modern Family for me, that I felt like, okay, I'm playing this gay dad. I want kids to look to these characters and see a reflection of themselves in these people and recognize themselves and recognize the types of lives they can have. And I knew I was gonna be asked questions about my own personal life, and I just never. I never questioned that I was gonna be honest with it. I've known you for a very long time, and I've never known you to be someone who has hidden your sexuality.

[Matt Bomer]

I never did professionally.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, no.

[Matt Bomer]

And it was so weird. Book. I felt like, you remember this time, but it was like. And I don't mean to cut you off if you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm done for the whole day. Actually.

[Matt Bomer]

It was that time when folks could kind of take over your own personal narrative before you even had a chance to. And so I remember, like, outlets like Perez Hilton and things like talking about my personal life before I had ever had a chance to even do it myself. And it wasn't because I. I didn't want to. I didn't even have an opportunity to. No media outlet was ever going, like, hey, I just didn't have a career that warranted that. And so it felt kind of unfair to me that that was stolen by people who did have a microphone at the time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Totally.

[Matt Bomer]

It was a weird time. But for me, I think once I did have a little bit of a. You know, didn't have a voice or anything, but even when we were walking around the street, you know, there'd be pictures of Simon and our kids, and I. And I didn't want them to feel like they were some kind of shameful secret or, you know, that something I was sweeping under the rug so I could have a great career or something. When I had the opportunity to do it, it was perfect. The amazing Diane Carroll, who I was lucky enough to work with for six years on White Collar, was hosting me for this event. And it was a humanitarian event. And it just. I was like, I'm gonna thank my family because. Cause that's what someone would do in this circumstance.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But the headlines were that you came out, like, you know.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. And that's okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. But isn't that funny? Cause you'd been with. You'd had a whole. You've had a family for so long, and it's just like, oh, well, that's what it was. I mean, the same thing happened on the View. Like, the first time I actually said something about me being gay, it was with Modern Family was already on, and I was on the View, of all places. And someone asked something about. And I talked about my boyfriend or, you know, me being gay. And, like, it was just, like a passing thought. And I didn't. I didn't even think that it was me making an announcement. It was just answering a question. And my sister called me. She's like, oh, you came out on the View today. I was like, first of all, there were no headlines that had come out. But, like, for her, that was the first time she'd heard me say it. And I was like, I guess I did. But it felt so anticlimactic, I guess.

[Matt Bomer]

I mean, I had the first Magic Mike movie coming out later that year, and White Collar was this. You know, it was a pretty successful show where I was playing a straight leading man. I didn't have anything to fall back on. What I had was a loving family. That was my safety net. And I was like, you know what? If the worst that happens is that I don't work again and I have this beautiful family who I love and who loves me, then so be it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you feel a change or no?

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, but I also felt a relief. You know, I felt like for so many years, not that I was like, putting on a performance or anything, but going into a meeting, I didn't. It was one less thing for me to have to even worry about. Not that I ever, like, changed who I was because I was always pretty honest with anybody I worked with. There was one professional experience where it was not safe for me to. And I didn't say anything, and I don't regret it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was it early in your career?

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, yeah. Early ish. Yeah, it was just there was language being thrown around on the set and direction being given where those terms were being used, and I had no one else around. So anyway, different time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's like ptsd.

[Matt Bomer]

We've all grown.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like high school for me.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, totally. It triggers all that stuff and you're trying to give a performance at the same time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I, I, I can only tell you from an outside perspective, you know, watching your career, it, it blossomed in a way that I think it, it wouldn't have if, Yeah, I think so. These nuances about your personal life were not something that were part of your makeup and who you are.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah, I wouldn't change a thing. I'm so happy that it all worked out the way it did. And I feel, I don't know if you felt this way too, but I feel like as an actor, I was suddenly able to access parts of myself that I never could before, regardless of what the sexuality of the character was. Yeah, like, I was able to go places that I don't think I would have been able to if I'd had that one extra layer holding me back.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, that's interesting. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Matt shares a very sweet thing he did for his kids while shooting White Collar and becoming an empty nester in his late 40s. Okay, be right back. Vacation season is nearly upon us, and this year, you know, I'm treating myself to luxe upgrades that I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair price. Think lightweight loungewear that's perfect for those long haul flights or premium luggage options. The best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands by partnering directly with top factories, Quint's cuts out the costs of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quints only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I just love that. I've been eyeing their expandable Carry On Hardshell suitcase, which comes in four sizes and a bunch of colors. It's just so nice to be able to get an extra inch of packing space in if I need it. I love options. I also just had a tab open for the Nappa Leather duffel bag, which for under $200 feels like a steal. For your next trip, treat yourself to luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quint.com JTF for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Quincom JTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com JTF.

[Matt Bomer]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me I had Patricia Clarkson on the other day on the podcast and she had just come from the Vanity Fair party. But I remember a year that I went to the Oscars and I went to the Vanity Fair party and I had to shoot the next day and I stayed out like till like 4 in the morning and I had a like 6am call and I was like, it's a once in a lifetime thing. And it was. I still can. Whenever that episode comes on, I just see it like I look like I just rolled out of bed.

[Matt Bomer]

Oh, oh dude, no human can supersede that. No, I never missed a single day on White Collar all six seasons. Never missed a single day. The one I I did get sent home one time. It was when that show, the way it worked out is it would be released while we were still filming, so I'd be having to do all the press and talk shows while we're and they wanted me to do west coast talk shows. So I did my first Tonight Show. I had the flu. It was with Jay Leno. That's how long ago.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh my God. I did Leno too.

[Matt Bomer]

And Then I flew back on the overnight. I sat next to Joan Rivers, God bless her soul, who was amazing and really knew how to do the overnight flight.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

She passed out as we were ascending and woke up as we were descending. I was like, you got this down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She has it down.

[Matt Bomer]

I had to go straight to set and start work. And after the first two scenes, the ad was like, we're going to go ahead and let you go home today. Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You were dismissed.

[Matt Bomer]

That was so awful. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, wow.

[Matt Bomer]

I want to share with you, though, because I'm so curious how you feel about this, because I was working with this brilliant actress. I'm not going to name drop. But she had chose to have kids later in life. And she said to me, I'm so grateful that I did because I was able to do the work on myself before I was parenting little souls. And now anytime something comes up, that triggers me, because we all hear our parents voices come out of us when we're parenting, Right. And it's like, it's our job to, like, in the moment go, oh, was that a good one? Or is that one that it's my responsibility to kind of, like, maybe find my own way to navigate? And she said, now when something. And I wish I'd heard this when I had younger kids because it's so brilliant now. I parent myself before I parent the kid. And I know how to address the part of myself that's getting, like, triggered before I talk to the kid.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I heard something else like that from an actress who I admire greatly. And another thing she said was. Cause I was feeling bad about leaving and going to work. And she said, it's really important for your kids to see you doing things that make you happy.

[Matt Bomer]

Yes. And know that you love it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. Great advice.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Truly.

[Matt Bomer]

I made a children's book for them. The first, like, four seasons of White Collar. And then if I would go away, do a location shoot or something, I would print out pictures of us all and cut out our heads.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, that's sweet.

[Matt Bomer]

And then draw stick figures and be like, maddie's going to New York. And I'd be like, me on an airplane waving goodbye to them. And he's going to be there doing something he loves. And I would have, like, a director and a camera. And then, you know, he's gonna come back for your birthday, and then he's gonna come back for Easter, and then you're all gonna be back together again. And it was a way for them at, you know, 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 even to go, oh, okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. I don't understand.

[Matt Bomer]

Cause they don't know time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

It's the most beautiful thing. They have no concept of time, but they know you're gone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

And so it was a way for them and a format that they understood. I got this from a child psychologist. I didn't just come up with this myself. And anytime I'm. I always ask them, I'm like, hey, I got offered this play or whatever, and are asked to maybe do this play for three months or whatever. How would you feel about me doing it? And they were like, if it's what you love, you should go do it. You know, they're really mature about it that way. They're not like, no, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, part of me is, like, manipulative.

[Matt Bomer]

You could be a little bit more.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. A little bit more sad that I'm.

[Matt Bomer]

Sad that I'm going, but. Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's something I'm learning to navigate now with young kids. And there's that thing of, like, you know, having kids later in life, though, is I did get those years when some of my friends were being parents. You know, I got to, like, go travel and do fun things. And then I also look at people like you. I'm like, oh, God, they're at the end of it. And there's a piece of me that feels, like, sad because I'm enjoying so much about. With the young years, but also the idea of, you know, getting your life back in certain ways. And, yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

I'm not gonna lie. There is part of that that's really enticing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Matt Bomer]

You know, but there's a part of me that's like, oh, I've never really known this with Simon. Of, like, what's it gonna be like if we're like, let's have a date night tonight on a Wednesday night, last minute.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, your whole relationship has kind of always had this other element in it.

[Matt Bomer]

It's always had different responsibilities that we've had to honor, first and foremost, most. You know, and so it's going to be like, should we just. Let's take a vacation? Like, you know, it's. That's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Take our hearing horns out to dinner and just have conversation.

[Matt Bomer]

Yeah. Make sure they turn the music down. Oh, my gosh. That's real. That is real.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That is real. I'm so happy you did this. I cannot wait for people to see your comic genius in Modern I. The day that I got to spend with you I was like, wow, this is so excited to see you do such a different hilarious new thing. And I just feel like people are really going to be surprised by this new side of you.

[Matt Bomer]

That's very nice of you to say. It was a bucket list all around.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It really was. I'm so proud of you and I.

[Matt Bomer]

Hope folks like it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What's the restaurant you used to work at again?

[Matt Bomer]

Komodo.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I feel like when I came to Komodo that night, you might have comped our meal. So. So today, Dinner's on Me.

[Matt Bomer]

Aw, full circle. Thank you so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're welcome. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Marois at the Pendry in West Hollywood, California. Next week on Dinners on Me. You know her from Christopher guest films like Best in Show and for your consideration and her long running role as Sue Sylvester in the hit ABC series Glee. It's five time Emmy award winning actor and comedian Jane Lynch. We'll get into sharing the screen more than once with screen icon Meryl Streep. And she delights me with her Montecito life which includes midweek lunches with comedy icons. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week earlier, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcat. Sam Barrett engineered this episode. Hansdale Chic composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kalasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.