NATHAN LANE — on doing R-rated ‘Golden Girls’ in new Hulu show and being a Broadway icon

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Nathan Lane on R-Rated ‘Golden Girls’ and Broadway Legacy

Episode Title: NATHAN LANE — on doing R-rated ‘Golden Girls’ in new Hulu show and being a Broadway icon
Release Date: January 28, 2025

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Introduction

In this captivating episode of Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with the illustrious actor Nathan Lane. Recorded at the iconic Crustacean in Beverly Hills, the conversation delves deep into Nathan Lane’s illustrious career, his upcoming projects, and personal anecdotes that reveal the man behind the memorable performances.

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Early Career and Broadway Beginnings

Jesse opens the conversation by expressing his long-standing admiration for Nathan Lane, tracing back to Nathan's breakout role as Nathan Detroit in the 1990s revival of Guys and Dolls.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (00:02:19): "He was always sitting with some luminary like Liza Minnelli or Elaine Stritch… He was a Broadway star in the greatest sense of the word."

Nathan recounts his early days in theater, highlighting the significance of Guys and Dolls in launching his career.

Nathan Lane (00:18:19): "It was such a great New York show. I mean, it's my… [Laughs]"

He also shares his experience auditioning for Nathan Detroit, emphasizing the chemistry with co-star Faith Prince.

Nathan Lane (00:20:05): "I owe Jerry Zaks a great deal… We were just on the same wavelength."

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Collaborations and Memorable Roles

Jesse and Nathan reminisce about their time working together on Modern Family, where Nathan played the beloved character Pepper Saltzman. Jesse highlights the joy of collaborating with one of his favorite actors.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (00:07:05): "One of my scenes was with Linda Lavin, who plays Nathan Lane's mother in the series. A few weeks after we shot my episode, Linda passed away very suddenly…"

Nathan pays tribute to Linda Lavin, dedicating the episode to her memory.

Nathan Lane (00:06:10): "I would love to dedicate this episode of Dinner's on Me with Nathan Lane to the memory of Linda Lavin. God, I was so lucky to work with her. I love you, Linda."

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Behind the Scenes: The Birdcage and Mike Nichols

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Nathan’s experience working on The Birdcage alongside legendary director Mike Nichols.

Nathan Lane (00:25:15): "While I was doing Laughter on the 23rd floor, Neil Simon play one night, Mike Nichols and Diane Sawyer came to the show… He said, 'I'd like to talk to you about a movie.'"

Nathan shares the intriguing story of how he was considered for a role in The Birdcage, including a humorous anecdote about performing a screen test dressed as a woman.

Nathan Lane (00:26:55): "I had to sing and parade around in evening gowns…"

Despite initial enthusiasm, scheduling conflicts prevented Nathan from joining the project, a decision he reflects on with a mix of regret and gratitude.

Nathan Lane (00:29:55): "I really did turn it down… that's why it all happened."

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Voice Acting and Iconic Characters

Transitioning to voice acting, Nathan discusses his role as Pumbaa in Disney’s The Lion King, sharing humorous behind-the-scenes moments with co-star Ernie Sabella.

Nathan Lane (00:40:20): "Ernie would just make fart noises… and then they put it in the movie."

He also introduces his latest voice role in Netflix’s animated film Spellbound, portraying Luno, the oracle of the moon.

Nathan Lane (00:43:03): "They're like a couple… They make garlic bread and lasagna and giggle a lot."

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Personal Reflections: Being Openly Gay in Hollywood

The conversation takes a heartfelt turn as Nathan discusses his experiences as an openly gay actor in the entertainment industry.

Nathan Lane (00:34:36): "I've been out since I was 21 to my family and everybody…"

He reflects on the challenges and triumphs of being a public figure while maintaining his identity, emphasizing the importance of focusing on his craft rather than personal life discussions.

Nathan Lane (00:36:13): "I wanted it to be about the acting and not a coming out story…"

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Future Projects and Collaborations

Looking ahead, Nathan expresses his excitement for future projects, notably the upcoming Hulu show Mid Century Modern, an R-rated sitcom likened to a "gay Golden Girls." He and Jesse discuss the creative process behind the show, including its multi-camera format and witty humor inspired by Will and Grace.

Nathan Lane (00:07:35): "It's very R rated, longer form… The horse is off the reins and he's able to do all of the stuff that they probably wish they could have done."

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Dedication and Closing Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Jesse reiterates the dedication to Linda Lavin and teases the next episode featuring Alana Glaser from Broad City Babes. He also highlights subscription benefits for listeners eager to access new content early and ad-free.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (00:38:35): "This episode was recorded at Crustacean in Beverly Hills and is lovingly dedicated to the memory of Linda Lavin."

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Notable Quotes

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson (00:02:19): "He was always sitting with some luminary like Liza Minnelli or Elaine Stritch… He was a Broadway star in the greatest sense of the word."
• Nathan Lane (00:25:15): "While I was doing Laughter on the 23rd floor…"
• Nathan Lane (00:34:36): "I've been out since I was 21 to my family and everybody…"
• Nathan Lane (00:43:03): "They're like a couple… They make garlic bread and lasagna and giggle a lot."

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Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers an intimate glimpse into Nathan Lane’s journey through Broadway, film, and television. From his early days in Guys and Dolls to voicing beloved animated characters, Nathan’s stories are both inspiring and entertaining. His candid reflections on fame, identity, and the evolving landscape of Hollywood add depth to the conversation, making this episode a must-listen for fans and aspiring actors alike.

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For more enriching conversations and exclusive early access to episodes, subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS on Apple Podcasts. Visit sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow @sonypodcasts for additional updates.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The other day, I was making lemonade with my sons, Beckett and Sully, and Beckett is a little bit of a perfectionist. I'm not sure where he gets that from. It's me. It's definitely me. But he was getting really upset about the seeds falling into the juice, and it was turning into a bit of high drama. Now, listen, there's an easier way to do this. Who knew? Wonderful seedless lemons are a 100% naturally seedless lemon variety. They're juicy, zesty, bright, and everything you love about lemons minus the. That's right. No more seeds floating in your lemonade or Diet Coke or getting caught in your teeth when you take a bite of salad. Frankly, that's just a hazard. Wonderful seedless lemons are available nationwide at retailers such as Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Walmart, Kroger, as well as select Costco outlets. Look for wonderful seedless lemons at your local retailer or visit wonderfulseedlesslemons.com to learn more. Okay, let's be real. A lot of times we'll have good ideas, like, oh, I should totally defrost my freezer and get rid of all this frozen food from nine years ago. But when it comes to actually doing it, it sits on your to do list for like a year. I mean, let's face it, sometimes you just gotta ask for help. Our friends at Airbnb are introducing a new feature that's gonna rock your socks off. People co hosting. With Airbnb's Co Host Network, you can hire a high quality local co host to take care of all the details of hosting your home, from managing reservations to communicating with guests, to even styling the space. This feature is amazing for anyone like me who has to travel for long periods and can't necessarily be glued to their phone all the time. It's also great for my snowbird friends who ditch their amazing homes in Park City and Aspen during the winter months to come and hang in LA and Palm Springs. Find a co [e-mail] host. Hi, it's Jesse today on the show. You know him from the hit film the Birdcage on stage in the Producers and his upcoming TV show from the creators of Will and Grace, Mid Century Modern, it's Nathan Lane.

[Nathan Lane]

This is. This is barely a podcast. This is. This is. This is just. We're having dinner.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, but we're going to talk about so many things.

[Nathan Lane]

Okay. All right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is. Dinner's on me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I think Nathan Lane hates it when I say this. But he is such a hero of mine and my love affair with him and his immense talent and let me just stop there. I can already hear him listening to this saying, love affair, love affairs. Jesse, I had no idea. But my love affair with him and his immense talent began long before he played Pepper Saltzman on Modern Family, a role which earned him three Emmy nominations. Mind you, his breakout performance as Nathan Detroit in the 1990s revival of Guys and Dolls was one of the first Broadway shows I ever saw. And as I started a career in New York City, I was always in close orbit with Nathan. Having friends who worked with him on stage and A Funny Thing Happened on their way to the Forum or the Producers, I would often see him across the room at fancy after show hangouts like Bar Central or Joe Allen's. After one of his performance, he was always sitting with some illuminary Liza Minnelli or Elaine Stritch, Terrence McNally or Matthew Broderick. He was a Broadway star in the greatest sense of the word. And my early years in New York City were filled with deep admiration for him as an artist. A career like his was one I dreamed of. And I was so excited to be working on stages at the same time as him in New York City, never with but always adjacent. Now in Modern Family, Mitch and Cam, played by Eric Stonestreet and myself, often referred to their good friend Pepper Saltzman. And in the early days of the series, we always wondered with great anticipation when we would actually get to meet this character. Now, our casting director, Jeff Greenberg, told us one day that he had cast Nathan Lane in the role. And I could not believe how fortunate I was. At long last, I was going to be working with one of my favorite actors, Nathan Lane, on a television series. Now listen, I never really let Nathan know just how much of an inspiration he was to me. I've since let all of that creep out. But in the moment when I first was working with him, I really needed to stay cool and professional. The friendship I got to develop with him over the 11 years of modern Family is one of the greatest things to come out of that experience for me. And seeing him continue to grow as an actor in more dramatic roles in both film and on stage has been so gratifying. It might seem like after getting to know Nathan, the allure of of him may have worn off, but it has been quite the opposite. I am constantly in awe of the way he has navigated his career, and I am so honored to call him a friend. And yes, I still do Dream of a career just like his. Now, right before we sat down for this meal, I was able to drop by Will and Grace creator Max Muchnik's home to watch the pilot of his new series called Mid Century Modern that Nathan stars in. And I left Max's home after watching the episode with a surprise offer to do a guest spot on the following week's episode. And of course, I said yes. It was such a joy to be on set with Nathan Lane again. One of my scenes was with Linda Lavin, who plays Nathan Lane's mother in the series. A few weeks after we shot my episode, Linda passed away very suddenly at the age of 87. This episode of my conversation with Nathan Lane was recorded right before her passing, so it's not discussed here. But I really. I would love to dedicate this episode of Dinner's on Me with Nathan Lane to the memory of Linda Lavin. God, I was so lucky to work with her. I love you, Linda. And here we are with Nathan Lane.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, this is proof that everyone in America has a podcast that can be truly, truly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I brought Nathan to Crustacean, which has been an iconic force in Beverly Hills for decades. Helene Anh, the matriarch of the Ahn family, opened the restaurant in 1995 and became a national pioneer in Vietnamese fusion. She and her family moved to San Francisco in 1975 as refugees where her mother in law purchased her first family restaurant in what was an old Italian deli. Sixty years later, Helene's five daughters would also join the business, opening five more restaurants and building on 60 years of traditional. Hard work and good taste are at the heart of Crustacean. And I couldn't wait to share a meal with Nathan here. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I just came from Max's.

[Nathan Lane]

From Max Muchnik. Yeah, look what I left my new best friend Maxny.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you know this? I left with the job. It's a very funny part.

[Nathan Lane]

It's a very funny part. It's been one of the happiest experiences I've ever had in show business.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'll just say, because we have. I've just launched right in. But Mid Century Modern. Mid Century Modern, which is a multi camera sitcom which has not been done really a new one hasn't been done in quite some time, I don't think. I guess since like, I don't.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, there's the Reba McIntyre.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Nathan Lane]

I guess there's a few that disagree, but we're on Hulu. We're doing sort of an R rated.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's very R rated, longer form. So Matt's Max Multicam, Max Muchnik and.

[Nathan Lane]

David Cohan, who created Will and Grace.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right.

[Nathan Lane]

Have created this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's the same wit and smart humor as Will and Grace, but all they're off the reins. The horse is off the reins and he's able to do all of the stuff that they probably wish they could have done.

[Nathan Lane]

Will and Grace. Yeah. It's sort of wonderfully nostalgic because it reminds me of the kind of situation comedies you grew up on. And then it's just really outrageous and R rated and it's sort of what?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, yeah, and in many ways, and I think this was their template, but it reminds me a lot of Golden Girls. It's, you know, kind of like a gay Golden Girls.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, that's how it was pitched to you. Pitched to me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it's, it's not.

[Nathan Lane]

It's an easy, easy way of saying it because the similarity is that my character, Bunny Schneiderman, who was a very successful and wealthy manufacturer of women's bras and has a chain of 53 stores nationwide called the Bunny Hutch, he lives in Palm Springs in a huge house with his mother Sybil, played by the great Lindell Avin. And he has this core group of friends and one of them in the pilot has died. His name was George and he, George had dated Matt Bomer's character, Jerry. And so when we met Jerry, he was very young, which explains why he's a little younger.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm so young still.

[Nathan Lane]

And then Nathan Lee Graham, who plays Arthur, the wonderful Nathan Lee Graham and Matt Bomer. I think Matt Bomer's gonna be the revelation for people because he's so funny in this, as this kind of dim witted, sexpot airline steward.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know where I first met Matt Bowmer, Just a side story. I had a friend who had just done a workshop of the musical Spring Awakening with him and was like, oh, I just worked with this guy. He's such a dreamboat. He's working his last shift at this restaurant on Avenue A and like 13th street, he's like, we're going to go and like, send him off and like one of his last tables. So that's how I met Matt. He was my waiter and hit the very last restaurant he worked at before going off to do his first soap opera. But then I sent him a message when he won an Emmy for. What was it that he won for? For the Normal Heart.

[Nathan Lane]

I think he won the Golden Globe.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The Golden Globe for the Normal Heart. Yes, right.

[Nathan Lane]

Yes, yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When he won for Normal Heart, I sent him a message like, I'm just so proud of you and I can't believe I've known you since your last specials. Yeah, exactly, exactly. No, he's great.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, he's wonderful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The whole show's wonderful. And it's directed by James Burroughs who's, you know, directed at Cheers and Taxi and Will and Grace started Friends and it's just so good. How do you like being on a multi camera show again with an audience?

[Nathan Lane]

I forgot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Or was the last time Encores, encores. Was that the last time?

[Nathan Lane]

It was encore, encore. There was only one encore, baby. No one wanted two. Encores. Encores, encores, encores. No, it was just one encore both times and no, the last one I did was with Jeff Richmond. Oh, our beloved Jeff Richmond. That. With Lori Metcalf. What Was this? And T.R. knight.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I remember the show.

[Nathan Lane]

And it was called Charlie Lawrence.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right.

[Nathan Lane]

It was briefly on cbs. I played a newly elected congressman who's a former actor who for years had starred in a. At a show like Touched by an angel. And he was, it was very successful, but he. So. But no one would ever hire. I remember again, after being typecast.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Waitstaff]

How are you doing tonight?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm good.

[Nathan Lane]

Great. How are you? Good.

[Waitstaff]

Welcome to Festation.

[Nathan Lane]

Thank you.

[Waitstaff]

All right, this is our drink list here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I might have a spirit less cocktail.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, you know, I. I also have. I have a dinner after this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Are you kidding me?

[Nathan Lane]

No, I'm not with who? I'm with the legendary two time Oscar winner, Ann Roth. Oh, the costume designer. Yeah, she's a very close friend of mine and her daughter Hannah and Max Muchnik.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, well, look at that. Well then eat light, but have a drink.

[Nathan Lane]

You make anything like a Moscow Mule.

[Waitstaff]

We have our own version. Tumeric Mule is fantastic.

[Nathan Lane]

Sure, I'll try that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you. Like literally I had Kathy Bates on yesterday. We were talking a little bit about Terrence McNally and she really credited him to starting her career. And I know you've always kind of done the same, you know, lips together, teeth apart, and obviously lives with Traviata.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, that was the one.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That was the one.

[Nathan Lane]

It wasn't Lips Together. That was, that was after. But yeah, that was after.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Don't second guess me about my own.

[Nathan Lane]

Career, about the things I've lived through.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know the chronological order.

[Nathan Lane]

I don't think so.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think I do. I just was talking about the one that I preferred.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, excuse me. Where you played my part. I Did play your part during COVID.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

During COVID On Zoom. I did, but Kathy was talking about, you know, how important Terrence McNally was to her with Frankie and Johnny, and she mentioned she had a big falling out with him. She didn't stop speaking for, like, 18 years, and then saw him at his 80th birthday, and there was a big celebration. You were there as well. Anyway, they had a falling out and came back together.

[Nathan Lane]

I can tell you about all of this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. But she said that, you know, you also. She's like, you should ask Nathan about this as well.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, sure. I've been through it, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was not unlike some of the characters he wrote. He was a passionate man, and he was possessive of his actors. And. Yeah, if he could have kept us in a warehouse in Times Square.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

And just brought us out to do his plays alone, he wouldn't. He probably wouldn't have objected, you know, but that was Terrence, you know, he was. You know, he was so great. But, yeah, he was possessive of the certain actors he used to refer to as. There are McNally actors.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Waitstaff]

Cheers.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, thank you very much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you so much. These are pretty gay drinks.

[Nathan Lane]

Couldn't get any gayer. Cheers.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Cheers to being gay. Good to see you.

[Nathan Lane]

And on a podcast is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, I haven't looked.

[Nathan Lane]

No.

[Waitstaff]

I'll let you gentlemen know about our.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Our.

[Waitstaff]

Our specials.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. Yes.

[Waitstaff]

So at the top of the menu, the big blue box, we have our anom family tree. Now, anom is our play on dim sum or smaller bites. So it's a tree that comes out the table with five small plates. Tonight it's going to have chicken satay, crab puffs, coconut bronze, spicy yellow tail shashimi, and a mushroom ravioli topped with the sesame ber l sauce and garlic lime. So be one piece of each of those for the two of you. Our other various hot and cold starters will be directly underneath there.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Nathan, do you want to. What? What about this tree thing?

[Nathan Lane]

The what?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The tree thing. It's five pieces. Would that be Because I know you don't want to overeat.

[Nathan Lane]

All right, good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Does that sound okay?

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then you can bring me out the. What's, like, the entree that you feel like I should definitely try.

[Waitstaff]

The working salmon is going to be right here in the middle.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'll do that. That's great. Thank you.

[Nathan Lane]

This is barely a podcast. This is just. We're having dinner. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But we're gonna talk about so many things.

[Nathan Lane]

Okay. All right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now, for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Nathan tells me why they hesitated to cast him in Guys and Dolls and working with the magical Robin Williams in the 1996 film the Birdcage. Okay, be right back. All right. Does this sound familiar? You've had a long day at work, you're starving, and the last thing you want to do is think about what to make for dinner, much less actually make it. Enter Tovala. Their meal service helped me ditch the dinner drama and eat a delicious home cooked meal without all the hard work. Tovala pairs chef crafted meals with a smart oven that literally cooks them for you. The smart oven is also really cute. It sits on my counter and I also can use it as a toaster oven or just something to reheat meals with during the day. But if I want to make a meal, all I have to do is select one of my favorite meals from their rotating weekly menu, which all cost less than the price of takeout. All the meals arrive fresh to my door and they come in a cute little brown box with a QR code. All you do is scan the QR code, pop the meals in the Tovala, and bam. In like 20 minutes or so, it spits out a delicious dinner of Korean barbecue glazed shrimp with sesame, garlic, broccoli, brown rice and kimchi. I mean, how amazing does that sound? All you have to do is relax and enjoy. One of my favorite things about Tovala is the time you get back in your day. And who doesn't love having dinner cooked for them? And with Tovala, dinner's on me. Head to tovala.com to use code Jesse to get your free Tovala smart oven through January 31st. That's tovala.com T O V A L.

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. I remember you getting angry at me because you said I was making you feel old, but one of the first Broadway shows I ever saw was Guys and Dolls.

[Nathan Lane]

How old were you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was a junior in high school, so I was probably like 17 or 18. 17. Yeah, well, I came in 1993.

[Nathan Lane]

I'll accept that. It's when they say I was 12 and I just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was right before I moved to New York, really. And it changed my life. It was. I think I saw Falsetto's first and Geyson's all second.

[Nathan Lane]

So that's a good combo. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was so fantastic. I mean, you and Faith Prince together. Incredible. I didn't realize that you actually named yourself after Nathan Detroit because there was already a Joseph Lane in the.

[Nathan Lane]

That is correct. I had played Nathan Detroit. I had done Guys and Dolls in a community theater as a kid. And then I had played Nathan Detroit in a non equity dinner theater production, the Meadowbrook Dinner Theater in Cedar Grove, New Jersey, when I was 21. And then when there was a Jolain in Actors Equity, the woman said, take. Take some time. Go think about it. And I said, no, just give me a few minutes. And I sat on a little bench right across from where she was, behind a window. And I had played Nathan Detroit, which I loved. And I had played Benjamin Franklin in 1776 in a summer stock in Chatham, New York at the Mac Hayden Theater. You did eight musicals in eight weeks? Yeah, I played Benjamin Franklin, of course. I was a kid and I said, do I want to be Nathan Lane or Benjamin Lane?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They're both great names actually.

[Nathan Lane]

And I said, I'll be Nathan. Nathan Lane.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, do you consider Guys and Dolls to sort of be your. The thing that sort of launched your musical theater career?

[Nathan Lane]

Well, I had done a lot of musicals before, but it was. It was such a. Yeah, it was something. And it's such a great New York show. I mean, it's my.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you audition for.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, sure, yeah. Yeah. And he, you know, he was trying to find age wise and, you know, put it together to the two couples and the. And. And I think there was some resistance because I'm not Jewish. And now, you know, I became an honorary Jew because I've played so many Jewish characters. So I pass, I guess. But then finally Jerry Zaks was like, I don't care, we'll send them to Hebrew school. I don't know what. I think. He's the funniest actor who came in for the part and that's who I think should do it. So that was. I owe Jerry's Acts a great deal. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, it was just magical. It was within Faith Prince, you know, that thing. You can't predict that kind of chemistry. And we were just on the same wavelength.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, you both Were incredible.

[Nathan Lane]

She was great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, you're both incredible. It's one of those theater experiences that's so vividly ensconced Constance in my brain. Like, I would love to go to Lincoln center and rewatch it, actually.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, I mean. And that Tony Walton, the great Tony Walton.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Remember how Candy colored it all?

[Nathan Lane]

Was all the colors and the gorgeous and. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Anyways, like, I did that revival of on the Town shortly after, and I think they were hoping to embody sort of that same spirit.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That old, old 1940s, 1950s Broadway musical. And with the color and just the.

[Nathan Lane]

You and Leia Delari.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, we oftentimes said, if we could be half as good as Nathan and Faith for, like, we've succeeded.

[Nathan Lane]

No, I think was that. That may be the first time I saw you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Probably. It was the first thing I did in New York. Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

Just a little thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I remember, I think the first time I met you was when you were doing Forum. Funny thing Happened on the Way to the Forum because Mary Testa, who was your co star in that, was in on the Town with me in the park when I did it. And I think that you came to see her and that's the first time I got to meet you. And I had seen Forum, obviously. And that was also such a incredible performance. I mean, there was a point in your life where it was like every big musical on Broadway seemed to have you attached to it. Like Guys and Dolls for the Producers. I mean, it was just like. It was Nathan Lane everywhere. I mean, did it. Did it feel that way? Did it feel like you were just going from, like, crazy hit to crazy hit? No, it didn't. That's what it seemed like to me.

[Nathan Lane]

No, I mean, you know, you get a handful of those.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

I mean, if you look at at least my. Just the Broadway career, you know, of the 25 shows I've done on Broadway, seven were musicals.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

The ones that were hits. There were like three with the Producers.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Nathan Lane]

Forum and Forum was a success, but it wasn't like a gigantic success. It was, you know, you want a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tony of your first Tony for it.

[Nathan Lane]

Yes. And it was. It was right after the Birdcage had, you know, opened. And so that helped a little bit. But the Producers was the. Is really the one that was like. That was a phenomenon.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It really was.

[Nathan Lane]

So that's really. So if you want to. We could narrow it down to that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks. I had heard. It's just True. When you were doing the Birdcage. I heard that. Mike Nichols. Let me see. I hope that's right. Made, like, a deal with Stephen Sondheim because he really wanted you to do the birdcage. Is this right? And, like, basically got Stephen Sondheim to delay the production of Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum so that you could.

[Nathan Lane]

No, this is. I'll tell the story.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Fine, tell it. I'm just telling you what I heard.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, you just. This is like we're on all that chat.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, I hate you.

[Nathan Lane]

And you've. I'll tell you what happened. No, what happened is.

[Waitstaff]

Okay, gentlemen, I have a treat.

[Nathan Lane]

Uh. Oh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh.

[Waitstaff]

This is our king crab Bangkok.

[Nathan Lane]

Say that again.

[Waitstaff]

King crab Bangkok. Okay, we have a crispy rice flour shell. It's going to be topped with Alaskan king crab, coconut bechamel cream, and royal Kuga caviar.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My goodness.

[Nathan Lane]

It's best to just eat it with.

[Waitstaff]

Your fingers down the patch so you enjoy.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It sounded like the name of a corn film.

[Nathan Lane]

That's a souvenir.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's really good. Wow.

[Nathan Lane]

I'll. I'll. I'll try to do this quickly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Nathan Lane]

Or how. Although maybe I don't have to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's up to you. You have a dinner.

[Nathan Lane]

I mean, you're obviously gonna be cutting a lot of this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

People are stopping.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We haven't even started recording.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, it's just us.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, no, no. These are just. No, these aren't real. I'm so sorry. This is the pre interview to see if we want to do a podcast with you. I am so sorry. Here's the coconut shrimp, buddy.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, good. I'll have one. Yeah, take the sauce. Take the whole thing. The story is, while I was doing laughter on the 23rd floor, Neil Simon play one night, Mike Nichols and Diane Sawyer came to the show. And it was like, I can't believe I'm being introduced to Mike Nichols. You know, it's like, God. And he came back. He had seen me in other plays, but he had never come backstage before, so that was highly unusual. And he said, I'd like to talk to you about a movie. I said, oh, okay. He said, can I call you tomorrow? And I said, yes. Yes, you can. I really wish. I really wish you would. So he and Elaine May had wanted to do this for a long time. And finally the rights were available. Steve Martin couldn't get out of this other obligation. Robin decided that he had already. He had done Mrs. Doubtfire. He didn't want to be in a Dress again. So the other part would be the more challenging for him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, interesting.

[Nathan Lane]

So. Pardon. You know, he included me in the process of its coming together in a way that I was just thrilled to be even considered and, you know, to be talking to them, you know, and then we did kind of a screen test. So they wanted to see what I would look like made up as a woman. And I had to sing, and I. You know, it was a whole thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then you had to sing?

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah, I had to sing in this sort of screen test. I did.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, okay. It wasn't like a singing audition to.

[Nathan Lane]

See if you could sing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was okay.

[Nathan Lane]

No, no, no. It's just they wanted me to just sing and, you know, parade around in evening gowns. So I would run into Mike and he would say, oh, maybe Robin wasn't going to do it. So he said, what do you think of Billy Crystal? And I would say, well, I love Billy Crystal. And then one I was. We were at a benefit, and he came over to me. This is Mike. And he said, Robert Redford. I said, what about him? Is he here as your husband? And I said, well, if you can work that, all my dreams will be coming true. You know, all very interesting ideas, but fortunately, Robin agreed. Do it. But then I got a call from Scott Ruden saying, you know, he's never going to make that movie. He's been talking about that a long time. That's not going to happen. And he said, you know, when you're. We're building this show around you and here's, you know, schedule. Funny thing happened on the way to the farm was going to be a conflict, so I had to turn it down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Turn down the bird cage?

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah. Imagine I had to turn it down. I had to say, no.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[Nathan Lane]

I said, I can't leave these people in the lurch. They've been building this whole thing around me. So I have to say, I can't do it. I can't believe this. When I tell this story, even I still don't believe this happened. So again, I'm still doing laughter on the 23rd floor. And I get a call in the dressing room one night, and it's from. He's in Ireland, Mike Nichols. And he says, nathan, I keep seeing people I met with Kevin Klein, and I talked to this one and that one, and I just feel you're the guy to play this part. I said, mike, I have no power. You're Mike Nichols. Perhaps if you called Scott Rudin, an agreement could be had and we could Try to work all this out. And then the next day, I had a call from Scott Rudin, and he said, you really want to do this movie? And I said, well, why wouldn't I want to do this movie? I said, of course. It's a leading role, and it's all of the best people in the world. He said, you realize we'll have to postpone for a year. I said, I do realize that. That's a huge thing, and I don't take that lightly. And I said. I said, I did turn it down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I did my best.

[Nathan Lane]

I really did. So. And he said, okay. So I'm also incredibly grateful to him because that's why it all happened.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you consider that you're kind of a big break in the film, right? In film world?

[Nathan Lane]

Sure. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think you were on set with us doing an episode of Modern Family when the news of Robin Williams passing came in. I feel like I was with you.

[Nathan Lane]

Really?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think so. I remember talking to you about it, and I think foolishly asking if you'd ever worked with him or if he'd ever gotten. And you're like, well, I did play. I was in the Birdcape. I was like, of course you were. I mean, what was it like? You know, I mean, obviously, I got to meet him briefly.

[Nathan Lane]

You know, he. You know, he was a movie star. You know, he could have said, I want Billy Crystal or somebody, another big movie name, to do it, to do the film. I know they showed him, like, the screen test or, you know, and he didn't know who the hell I was. And he was like, yeah, absolutely. But, you know, he was just, as you've heard, incredibly generous and sensitive and kind soul and very, you know, and we were sort of kindred spirits in a way that was. He was just so wildly funny and brilliant and comic genius and a wonderful actor, and. And, you know, we always had that bond from that film. It was. You know, I hadn't. I did a thing for the New Yorker Festival, and they showed a scene from it, and I hadn't seen it in a while, and I hadn't seen it since he had died, and I just. You know, I just started crying. You know that scene at the bus stop where he, you know, gives you the. The palimony?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

See, I'm getting emotional. He has the palimony agreement, and it's my favorite scene in the film. And it's so sort of Robin just, you know, being so simple and true and just, you know, I remember I had to. There was a musical Number I had to do in the nightclub of the Sondheim song. Sondheim had written songs for it, and then Mike didn't use any of them. But I sang in the club, can that boy Foxtrot. And I did the whole number with the crowd in the club. And so he had a day off while I was doing that, and he came in for the day to be there. I said, why are you here? It's your day off. He said, I want to be here for you. I want to support you in this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Nathan Lane]

You know, he was just. It was very special. It was a very happy time for everybody.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Nathan talks to me about the pressure of coming out publicly as gay, becoming a Ryan Murphy darling and developing the voice of Timon in the Lion King. Okay, be right back.

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. What was it? I mean, did it feel. I'm asking this as someone who's like, obviously played in gay character in a different time, but, like, did it feel being gay yourself at that moment, but not necessarily being out because I know you weren't gonna come out publicly until a few years later, but you were out to your friends and family and, like, did it feel. I don't know, I mean, scary to play a part like that on film?

[Nathan Lane]

No, no, no, no, it was a great part.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Fantastic role.

[Nathan Lane]

Just a great part. No, I didn't think about that. I didn't think, honestly, because I've been out since I was 21 to my family and everybody. But being out and then being a public figure and coming out, it's a whole other thing. Yeah, I didn't. I literally didn't really think about it. And I now I was, you know, the movie. I had a. I got a publicist, Simon hall, and he said to me, what do you want to do? This is just before this junket where the junket is about to start. He's wondering, what do you want to do about your sexuality? I said, not that it's too late. Said, no, you know, it's going to come up, you know, and what are you going to say? And I was like. I was like, oh. And, you know, I don't want it to be about that. I want it to be about this part is. And I wanted to be about the acting and not a coming out story. And for better or worse. And I said, no, I'm just gonna. I'll just say I'd rather not talk about my personal life if it comes up, which, you know, is code, which is, you know, you might as well have said, and by the way, I love the cock.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. It's like bringing your mother to the Oscars and saying, I'd rather not talk about my personal life. Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

You know, it was sort of pointless, but, you know, it was all overwhelming anyway. I'd never been in that position. So I don't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think it's still thought it's. People still think now it's like.

[Nathan Lane]

But everyone's fluid now, right? Everyone's, you know, thanks. You know, it doesn't matter. It's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So we can be fluid.

[Nathan Lane]

What? Well, I carry a lot of water weight. I don't know if you know this. So I've. I've always been fluid, but I'm 90% fluid. But I did say to us, us magazine said, you know, are you gay? And I said, I. This is how long ago it was. I said, I'm 40, I'm single and I work a lot in the musical theater. You do the math. What do you need flashcards? So. But for some people, that wasn't good enough. I had to be in the swimsuit competition as well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Notarizer. Yeah, absolutely.

[Nathan Lane]

What did you just say?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You need to notarize.

[Nathan Lane]

I need a notary republic.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Notary republic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but witnesses sign here and here.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah, I know nobody had cared before, but, you know, that was that part. The nature of that part and the success of the film and then, you know, but. Or a King.

[Waitstaff]

Sam.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.

[Nathan Lane]

So much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Waitstaff]

Are you doing okay, sir?

[Nathan Lane]

I'm great. No, I'm perfect. Thank you. Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Nathan Lane]

Absolutely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When you were doing Modern Family, you. Which you were nominated for three Emmy awards for which. Is it true that you are the most nominated comedy guest actor in the history of the Emmys, Nathan? That's really cool.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah, that's really cool. I mean, there were certainly people with more nominations than me in that category. Yeah. Eight nominations in the guest. That's unbelievable. Yeah. Well, technically it's seven nominations in the comedy category and one in the drama guest. But in the guest actor category. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's incredible.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When you were doing stuff with us on Modern Family, you were also doing Angels in America at the same time.

[Nathan Lane]

Was I?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh. I remember you exhausted.

[Nathan Lane]

I just remember. Yeah. Going out the first time to do the first one.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh. I remember the earthquake.

[Nathan Lane]

The earthquake.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. I have a photo of us from that because I didn't know if like you would decide to come back or not. I was like, I'm getting my photo with Nathan Lane now. Yeah. I have a picture of Yumi and Eric and I think Chris Lloyd all together.

[Nathan Lane]

So really the writers on that show, they maintain the quality of that writer. It was always so funny and smart.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When you were incredible on it. So I'm in the middle of Monsters. I mean, it's so well done.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, you know, it's interesting when you're talking about Terrence McNally talking about a group of actors who he really holds dear and would lock them into a warehouse and use them all the time if he could. Ryan Murphy's very much the same way. And you are definitely in that camp with Ryan Murphy.

[Nathan Lane]

Well, now, sure, I had when we did, I love doing People versus OJ but then I wasn't asked to be in anything else after that. So I thought, oh, well, I didn't, I didn't make the cut. And then this past year he, you know, with. With Monsters and. And now Mid Century Modern, which he's also a producer of. You know, I feel like he's. Well, he's. He's become my guardian angel.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I'll just have. I'll just stick with the water. Thank you. Good.

[Nathan Lane]

You know, for my third act. So, yeah, I'm very grateful to him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You also have this incredible career as a voiceover actor with. That's a terrible way to say a voice actor.

[Nathan Lane]

I happen to be in one really successful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

One of the most successful movies of all time.

[Nathan Lane]

We created a franchise.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

We just did a. At The Hollywood bowl. We did the 30th anniversary, the concert with Jennifer Hudson and Jeremy Irons.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love the stories of you and Ernie Sabella in the recording booth together. Because at the time, you were doing Guys and Dolls.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah. And it was an accident.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Nathan Lane]

You know, I don't know what Ernie says.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Ernie played Pumbaa, by the way.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah, played Pumbaa. Yeah. Yeah. But you can't believe anything Ernie says. But what happened was I. We were on a. I was on a break anyway to audition. We auditioned. He. He had gone in and he was auditioning, and then he came out and he said, you know, was saying, like, you want to get lunch? I'll wait. And I said to them, you know, I have to. I'm reading for three hyenas. So I said, why don't I read with Ernie? He said, that'll make it more fun and more interesting, and I'll have something, you know. And because he was about. He was going to leave, they said, okay. So we went in, and then we improvised and carried on. And then we left. And I thought, well, you know, that's not gonna happen. And then they said, we're writing these characters. It's a meerkat and a warthog, and we're writing these for you two guys.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So they hadn't even. They hadn't written these characters.

[Nathan Lane]

And they. I think they might have been talking about it, but now we're gonna.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Had a prototype.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah. And they're kind of the comic relief. And you'll, you know. Great. And then when we showed up and they showed us the drawings, and I said, well, how do you. What do you want them to sound like? And they said, well, you're doing Guys and Dolls right now. They should be like that. Like Damon Runyon characters. And, you know, they said, you should be more higher pitched, and Ernie can be a little lower. So, you know, I became a New York, Jewish, Brooklyn meerkat, and he was doing. Ernie did a really interesting. Because he kind of. It was a combination of Wallace, the character actor, Wallace Beery, who used to talk like this. So Wernie kind of does that thing. It's Wallace Beery. And then the character actor, Michael Gotzo, when he gets really. Hey, raspy hype, you know. Yeah. And then. And then when we would go in. So we were doing Guys and Dolls, doing eight shows a week. And we go in to record at, you know, 9, 10 in the morning. And I was tired. I'd be drinking coffee and cranky, and Ernie would just. We start to do the dialogue, and he would just make fart noises, you know, just a lot of fart noises. And I would laugh. And then they put it in the movie.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They put it in. Yeah. It was a very gassy warlock.

[Nathan Lane]

That's why Pumbaa is flatulent.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So good. And now then you. You know, you get to do another animated film out on Netflix right now. Spellbound.

[Nathan Lane]

Titus Burgess and I are oracles. The oracle of the. He's the oracle of the sun, and I'm the oracle of the moon. He's Sunny, and I'm Luno, and we're very small, round creatures. And for some reason, you know. So it's written. My character was written with, like, a German dialect, and Alan Menken on the demo tape sang it in an accent. And I said, well, is there a reason why? Is he German? Or what's happening here? And I said, no, we just wanted to differentiate between the two. So that's why I'm talking, like, Ludwig van Dreg. So. Yeah, yeah, they're like a. They seem to be a couple. Yeah, the oracles. They live together in the forest in a mushroom house.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it's like the bertinerni of the oracles.

[Nathan Lane]

Yeah, that's right. Something's going on. They make garlic bread and lasagna and giggle a lot. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Listen, even in your animated shows, you're gonna be. There's gonna be a little bit of gay in there. I'm so happy you did this.

[Nathan Lane]

Is that it?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is it over pretty soon? Yeah.

[Nathan Lane]

Oh, we're still. Well, you seem to be gathering your things.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I just picked up my glasses.

[Nathan Lane]

Okay, well, you know, I'm just checking.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode was recorded at Crustacean in Beverly Hills and is lovingly dedicated to the memory of Linda Lavin. Next week on Dinners on Me. You know them from Broad City Babes and their new special Human Magic. On Hulu, it's Alana Glaser. We talk about the crazy ride that is giving birth, how their friendship with Abbi Jacobson has changed after a successful show together, and how pregnancy helped them understand their relationship to gender. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vang. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sami Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.