RACHEL BLOOM — laughing while grieving and surviving 'status dysmorphia’

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Episode Summary

Episode Title: RACHEL BLOOM — Laughing While Grieving and Surviving 'Status Dysmorphia'
Release Date: October 29, 2024
Guest: Rachel Bloom
Location: Kismet, East Hollywood, Los Angeles

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Introduction and Connection

In this heartfelt episode of Dinner’s on Me, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson warmly welcomes actress, singer, and creator Rachel Bloom, best known for her breakthrough series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Their shared passion for musical theater and personal connections set the stage for an intimate and vulnerable conversation.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [02:40]: "Rachel Bloom is one of those theater nerds. She also effortlessly brought musical theater to the mainstream with her critical and cult hit musical comedy series Crazy Ex-Girlfriend."

Honoring a Fallen Friend: Gavin Creel

Jesse opens up about the recent passing of his dear friend Gavin Creel, a beloved figure in the Broadway community. The sudden loss after a brief battle with cancer has left Jesse grappling with grief and searching for comfort.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [07:48]: "We did hair together when it was at Encores City Center. We know each other really, really well. And I am now realizing as I'm reading all these posts, how wide that net went with him and how many lives he did touch."

Rachel Bloom’s Therapeutic Journey Through Grief

Rachel shares her own experiences with loss, including the death of her songwriting partner Adam Schlesinger during the COVID-19 pandemic. She discusses how humor and comedy served as essential tools for navigating her grief, allowing her to process pain while finding moments of levity.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Bloom [09:28]: "He loved that so much. He was like, that's the new humble brag, ego obituary."

Creating Her Netflix Special: Death: Let Me Do My Special

The conversation delves into Rachel’s new Netflix special, Death: Let Me Do My Special. She explains how the abrupt changes brought by the pandemic and personal loss redirected her creative process, leading to a show that intertwines humor with profound themes of mortality and healing.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Bloom [16:04]: "I really did try to keep a lot of older material in... but something has interrupted the course of my life. And then it just very quickly became like, oh, what if that's a person."

Navigating Mental Health and Status Dysmorphia

Rachel and Jesse explore the concept of status dysmorphia, a term coined by Rachel’s therapist to describe the insecurity that arises from not meeting personal or external success benchmarks. Rachel candidly discusses her struggles with self-worth post-Crazy Ex-Girlfriend and the challenge of establishing a new identity in the entertainment industry.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Bloom [35:34]: "My therapist has called it status dysmorphia at times because I've been like, if I don't sell a thing, I'll say, I don't know if I matter."

Parenting and Reflections on Mortality

The discussion transitions to parenting, where both Rachel and Jesse share their anxieties about the safety and fragility of their children. Rachel recounts the traumatic experience of her daughter’s birth during the pandemic and the pervasive fear of sudden loss, highlighting the constant vigilance parents endure.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Bloom [41:37]: "When you experience someone suddenly dying, you can't help but navel gaze and be like, am I next?"

Embracing Vulnerability Through Humor

Throughout the episode, Rachel emphasizes the importance of humor as a coping mechanism. She explains how maintaining a light-hearted perspective helps her balance the darkness of grief, making it possible to face difficult emotions without being overwhelmed.

Notable Quote:

Rachel Bloom [23:21]: "There's a part of laughing that makes you almost feel immortal. And I can't really articulate it, which is why the show kind of comes back around to being silly."

Closing Reflections and Future Endeavors

As the meal concludes, Jesse commends Rachel for her remarkable ability to blend comedy with deep emotional truths. They discuss the ongoing process of healing and the significance of creative expression in overcoming personal tragedies.

Notable Quote:

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [45:58]: "It was such a beautiful tribute to your friend Adam. It's such a beautiful tribute to your daughter and to your dog."

Jesse teases the next episode featuring Zachary Quinto, highlighting the continuous journey of sharing personal stories over a meaningful meal.

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Key Takeaways

• Grief and Healing: Both Jesse and Rachel use humor and candid conversation as tools to navigate their grief, demonstrating the therapeutic power of vulnerability.
• Mental Health Awareness: The episode sheds light on status dysmorphia, encouraging listeners to recognize and address their insecurities related to personal and professional achievements.
• Parenting Anxieties: Rachel discusses the intense fears and responsibilities that come with parenting, especially in the context of unforeseen tragedies.
• Creative Expression: The importance of storytelling and creative outlets in processing complex emotions is a central theme, illustrated by Rachel’s Netflix special and her collaborative relationship with Jesse.

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Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers a profound exploration of loss, mental health, and the resilience of the human spirit. Through heartfelt dialogue and shared experiences, Jesse Tyler Ferguson and Rachel Bloom invite listeners to embrace their vulnerabilities and find strength in connection and laughter.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The other day I was making lemonade with my sons, Beckett and Sully, and Beckett is a little bit of a perfectionist. I'm not sure where he gets that from. It's me. It's definitely me. But he was getting really upset about the seeds falling into the juice and it was turning into a bit of high drama. Now listen, there's an easier way to do this. Who knew? Wonderful seedless lemons are a 100% naturally seedless lemon variety. They're juicy, zesty, bright, and everything you love about lemons minus the. See, that's right. No more seeds floating in your lemonade or Diet Coke or getting caught in your teeth when you take a bite of salad. Frankly, that's just a hazard. Wonderful seedless lemons are available nationwide at retailers such as Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Walmart, Kroger, as well as select Costco outlets. Look for wonderful seedless lemons at your local retailer or visit wonderfulseedlesslemons.com to learn more. Hey, it's Jesse. So I've got a bit of a crazy life. I have two kids under five, two dogs, a husband, a busy career. And I also just added another thing to my to do list. Hosting on Airbnb. Now, to be honest, I haven't yet pulled the trigger because I'm getting a little overwhelmed with everything I would need to do to be on top of everything as a host. I'd want to put gorgeous photos up to show off the amazing space. I would want to make sure that I'm as responsive as possible to guest and anticipate any questions or needs they might have. You know, you gotta get those good reviews. Plus, I gotta make sure that the house is in tip top shape, linens are clean, everything is pristine for when they arrive. See, I'm. I'm already tired just thinking about it. It's like a part time job. That's why I'm so excited about Airbnb's new co host feature. Now I can hire a local co host to handle all the details while I'm away. They can create my listing, manage reservations, communicate with guests, and even style my space. So it's perfect for every guest. It's like having a trusted friend who's really good at this stuff. Just take care of everything. I can focus on my family and my work, knowing that my home and my guests are in great hands. Find a co [e-mail] host hi, it's Jesse today on the show. You might know her from Crazy Ex Girlfriend or her newest Netflix Special death. Let me do my special. It's Rachel Bloom.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'll read Deuxmoi, where I'm not part of that celebrity, where I'm. I'm like, oh, what are the famous people doing? What are they eating? Right, Right. They're still a little separate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

In my head, this is dinner's on me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. All right. Musical theater nerds will always be drawn toward each other like magnets. There's just a deep comfort level we have around each other, even before we've outed ourselves as Sondheim aficionados or apostles of Rodgers and Hammerstein. If you're already lost, just stick. I promise this won't be too much Inside baseball. See what I did there? I used a sports reference to ease anxiety. Rachel Bloom is one of those theater nerds. She also effortlessly brought musical theater to the mainstream, or at least the cw, with her critical and cult hit musical comedy series Crazy Ex Girlfriend. I mean, that's when I fell in love with her. I mean, you can imagine. I was like, well, wait, wait, there's another musical theater obsessed redhead on the back. Lots of Hollywood. I had to find her. And when I. It was an immediate love connection. I have always, I don't know, felt a tad warmer when I'm around Rachel Bloom because I know the fabric that she's cut from, it's the same as mine. And yes, that fabric is very glittery. Her new Netflix special, Death Let Me Do My Special, tackles grief, mortality, mental health, and, yes, death, but all through the unique kaleidoscope perspective that is so specific to Rachel Bloom. Oh, I should also mention that it's also miraculously hilarious somehow, walking that fine knife ridge between comedy and tragedy, between grief and healing. It's such a great special, and it definitely took me off guard a bit. All right, I'm not really sure how to talk about this next thing. A few days before this meal with Rachel, my dear friend Gavin Creel, who's only a year younger than me, passed away after a short and brutal battle with a rare aggressive form of cancer. He was an extremely loved member of the Broadway community. His passing was not only devastating to his friends and his family, but it sent an earthquake through an entire community of people who were touched by his work on stage. Now I'm crying as I'm saying this. Obviously, I don't know if I'm fully ready to talk about Gavin's passing so publicly. I mean, the whole thing is so fresh still. But after watching Rachel's Special, I Knew that if there was anyone to have a conversation about the grief of losing a close friend, it was her. You look so cute.

[Rachel Bloom]

I wanted to get a beard too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You are my beard.

[Rachel Bloom]

That would be an honor. You know, I prefer to get lunch with people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Unless you're not entirely cleared out with just people observing. We have observers?

[Rachel Bloom]

Yikes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just a row of people observing us.

[Rachel Bloom]

I watch you eat.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Let's. Let's see what she does next. Oh, my God, she's lifting her fork. I brought Rachel to one of my favorite restaurants in Los Angeles, Kismet. Now, if you live in LA and you are a fan of rotisserie chicken, seriously, get in your car and get yourself to a Kismet Rotisserie asap. Besides their grab and go spot Kismet Rotisserie, they also have their sit down James Beard nominated namesake restaurant, Kismet in East Hollywood. I'm good friends with chefs and owners Sarah Kramer and Sarah Hymanson. Prior to Kismet, they ran a falafel concept called Metcapra inside Grand Central Market, earning a spot on Zagat's 201530 under 30 list. And only a few months after opening Kismet, they landed on Food and Wine's best new chefs list. Kismet's menu is vegetable forward with Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and Asian influences. I lose my shit over the Moroccan spiced carrots and the Persian crispy rice, also known as Tahdig. When I found out Rachel lived on the east side, I knew just the spot to take her. Okay, let's get to the conversation. How are you?

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's been a really long time since I saw you.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's been a really long time. I didn't know him, but, like, I'm so sorry about Gavin Creel.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you. Thank you. I was actually wanting to talk to you about this because it's sort of serendipitous that we're doing this because we're talking about grief. I know we're talking about grief. Did you know Gavin Creel?

[Rachel Bloom]

No. Here's the thing. I've met a lot of musical theater people. I really, for whatever reason, haven't met him. But, like, Thoroughly Modern Millie was my. I don't know a way to say this. Doesn't make it sound. It was like my breakup album. Like, I would play Forget about the boy in other ways, in the ways that other people played. I don't know who's. A band that everyone likes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Or like REM or something.

[Rachel Bloom]

I was gonna say Korn, but That doesn't make any sense. But, like, that's how much he touched musical theater. He's just in everything I listen to. So I didn't know him. I'm reading all these posts. It sounded like he was a fucking saint.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is the thing that I'm sort of dealing with right now, or like, I guess finding comfort in right now. You know, Gavin and I knew each other for 25 years.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We did hair together when it was at Encores City Center. Encores. Oh, my God. When he had just moved to New York. And we. We know each other really, really well. And I am now realizing as I'm reading all these posts, you know, how wide that net went with him and how many lives he did touch. And I was talking with a friend of mine who also didn't know him very well and was just so moved by the outpouring of love. And I think a lot of it was because it happened very quickly. He was diagnosed with this cancer nine, like, basically 10 weeks ago.

[Rachel Bloom]

I didn't know this could happen. I honestly didn't know there could be a cancer like this that was this aggressive.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

So aggressive.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And to happen to someone who is so young and so, you know, full of vibrancy. And, you know, there was this moment, and I'm sure you felt this way, you know, as well, you know, when you've lost someone dear to you, there's those moments, those days after, and it's like, especially now with social media, you're like, I have to post something about it. And I did end up posting something, but it almost felt like I was, like, in this contest of grief with other people.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's so funny because one of so Aline, when we were on Crazy Ex Girlfriend, my writing partner Aline had this joke called egobituaries, which are obituary that everyone dies. They post about the person, but also it's like. And the further away you are, the longer. Right. So it's just like. It's just like I brushed Gavin Creel's hand at a bus stop in 1996, and from then on, I knew. Right, right. No one's actually posting that, but Adam fucking. My friend Adam Schlesinger, who died.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes, yes. Which I'm gonna circle back to.

[Rachel Bloom]

He loved. He loved that so much. He was like, that's the new humble brag, ego obituary. And so when he died, Aline posted about egobituary, and there was a real thing with me of like, I don't want to post an egobituary because he'll be. I want to make, like, afterlife Adam laugh, but also, I don't want to. But he, like, you don't want to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Fall into the trap.

[Rachel Bloom]

He had a real allergy for ego bit words. But I gotta say, everything about Gavin Creel that everyone's been posting and what you posted, it doesn't seem like that. It seems so profound.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And this is the other thing that I was going to say that I'm sort of grappling with right now. The only thing that's giving me comfort in, like, I don't know, dealing with this is going to those posts and looking at the way he touched other people and just reminding myself that we all can live a life that way and be as open and generous as he was. That being said, I cannot click on a video of him right now. Like, I can't see him. I went back to my old text exchange with him, and we have, you know, video exchanges. And, like, I can't watch them yet, but I've saved them. I made sure they're archived, that I can go back to them later. But I was so excited because we are gonna talk a lot about grief because your show is brilliant.

[Rachel Bloom]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And now also, this is why I'm also glad you're here. So this is my friend Sarah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Hi.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sarah Kramer. She and her other friend Sarah opened this place.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, my God, I'm such a fan. I eat here all the. We come here all the time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I want you to know this because. Musical theater fan. I'm sorry. I'm gonna put you on blast. Oh, my God. I have something teed up. So Sarah told me a little piece of information about her when we got to know each other a little bit. Cause she knows I'm a musical theater fan. Sarah was a participant. Mamma Mia. On Broadway.

[Rachel Bloom]

A long, long time ago.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A long time ago.

[Rachel Bloom]

You've gone from Broadway to being a superstar. I'm a code of maybe the best chicken in Los Angeles. Oh, my God. Nice to meet you, too. I truly come here. Long time, first time caller, long time listener.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sure. Yeah. I want something spark. Do you want booze? I'm on something sparkling. That's like non alcoholic.

[Rachel Bloom]

Ooh, I'm gonna do this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And that could be as simple as, like, sparkling water. Or like, we've got Ghia spritz also. Oh, I love Ghia.

[Rachel Bloom]

They're really nice. I'm gonna.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm gonna do it.

[Rachel Bloom]

Guess that sounds perfect.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, perfect.

[Rachel Bloom]

Also, we have some food coming for you. We put together little greatest hits for you. So sit back and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So excited. God. Okay.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, you were not. I was connecting to something you were saying earlier about Gavin about not being able to watch a video. So the day Adam died, I was shocked. I mean. Cause, you know, I found out. For those of uninitiated. But basically, I gave birth to my daughter in late March 2020. My daughter was in the NICU, which is the neonatal ICU during COVID As Covid was getting scary, you know, we didn't know what it was. The night I gave birth, I found out my songwriting partner Adam had Covid in New York and was on a ventilator. I found out both things in one night. He died a week after my daughter was born. So the day he dies, I'm inconsolable, and I'm getting all these lovely texts from people, and I can't even look at my phone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And I handed my phone to my husband, and I was like, can you just answer my text? And then I was. Then it was the thing of, like, I better say something on social media. But I couldn't fucking do it. And so, like, I literally. I think what I posted, I wrote something in a notes app, and then I screenshot it, and then I had my husband, like, post it. Like, it you can't even bear. And I couldn't look at videos of him for months. It was. When someone dies, suddenly, it's. I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I've never experienced that with someone so close to me.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I think it really took my breath away. And also just the fact that it was someone who was a contemporary and such a dear friend, you know, and also just had so much to still do.

[Rachel Bloom]

He was in the mid. I mean, he was in the middle, if not beginning middle of his career.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, a year ago, he was doing his own show in New York. He had written his own show, but, I mean, so I got an advance. So by the time this comes out, your special will be out.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm glad you got to see it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I got to see it.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But when it started, there was a voiceover, you know, and it's like, you see the date. February.

[Rachel Bloom]

March 13th.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

March 13th, 2020. And we're like, okay, we're back in that place. And there was a moment I was like, oh, gosh, it's gonna be. We're in Covid. It's gonna be one of those things. And felt the same way around 9 11, too, where it was such a traumatic experience. And it was like, when is it safe to wade back into those Waters or when is it safe to acknowledge it? But the stuff that broke through was stuff that was done so beautifully and in such a clever way, with such a light touch, and it's kind of snuck in. And that's all I'm about to say. Like, that's what your special did with me. Just so you're not stressing out, like.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, God, I assumed you wouldn't be, like. And I have to say I thought it was gross and really heavy handed and no one should watch it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thanks.

[Rachel Bloom]

When something awful happens, the easy thing is to go heavy handed and to be like, this is awful and revel in the awfulness. But you're not. What are you? Why have you made the thing? I guess because it's already. Well, a couple things. So when Adam. Shortly after Adam died, I had written a book. I'd written a book when I was pregnant. And I put in the epilogue of the book, something about Adam, because it was weird to release a book in November 2020, which was mostly written in 2018, 2019, and not mention that because it was the thick of everything was going on and my life had experienced. So I put this in the epilogue. And a lot of times that's what people wanted to talk about. And there was this little bit of this sense of like, Covid is the sexy thing. Of like, oh, I had the friend who died of COVID And there were like a couple podcasts I did where like, that was the thing they used. And it's like I was talking about my book about being a musical theater kid, but clearly for the views and the eyeballs and the clickbait, they're using the atom part. And it felt weird. And then also, Adam was such an unsentimental person. And even though my special ultimately is not just about Adam. Cause it really isn't. I didn't want to do anything that. Because he's such a central part of it, I didn't want to do anything that he'd be like, oh, don't. Ugh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, don't make it about me.

[Rachel Bloom]

Don't be sentimental. Like, he was such a non saccharine, non sentimental person.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, I really was quite taken by it. I mean, I have so many questions. Like, let me back up a little bit so we can get back into this and when you were putting the show together, because we hear the first thing. First of all, let me say the name of the show is called Death. Let me do my show.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. And then for Netflix, it'll be Death. Let me do my Special. It was death let me do my show when I was. I just translated for Netflix.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

When it was off Broadway and stuff.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it starts off with making reference to the fact that you're about to go on tour. Covid was happening. You're like, okay, let's step back from this. You were also nine months pregnant about that time.

[Rachel Bloom]

So I was building. So the idea was I was building up to this new material. The show was maybe half done. I was gonna go on maternity leave and then ramp it up and finish the new material in a couple months in my head and then film this, like, silly, raunchy special especially. Cause I had a network show for four years. I was excited to actually curse and say pussy and stuff, like a middle schooler. So I had had this show that I was planning, and then the origin of this show is I'd had all the beats mapped out on a whiteboard in my office. And I was looking at the whiteboard. This is like a couple months after Adam died. And I was playing with my daughter. And it's 5am And I'm exhausted. And I look at. You know, it says, like, the bullet points just say, like, come tree pregnancy tests. What if Billie Eilish were really old? And I'm like, this is so. Which actually is like a pretty good song. I was like, this is so stupid. The world is so much more than this. How dare. Like, this means nothing anymore. Like, especially. This is like June 2020, July 2020. I'm like, oh, this is all gone. I can't. I'm not working on this anymore. And then I had the idea of, like, it feels like something has interrupted the course of my life. And it just very quickly became like, oh, what if that's a person? And then the challenge with this show was I really did try to keep a lot of older material in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, initially.

[Rachel Bloom]

And over the course of only one. Yeah, it's the beginning and ending song. But so much material. Lift it out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know. You're sure your show does start off with you singing about cum trees?

[Rachel Bloom]

Sure I do. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which is hilarious. Cause it's something I immediately recognize. We've all walked by the country.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, they're all.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They're everywhere.

[Rachel Bloom]

So, you know, they were planted. It's called the Bradford pear or the callery pear. They came from China originally. They started planting them all over the US in the 50s because they were beautiful suburban trees. And they are very resistant to, you know, disease. And they're very. I think they're very Water efficient. But yeah, they smell like cum.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So really it did hook me immediately. It makes me very happy knowing the title of your show. I was like, where is this death feed coming in.

[Rachel Bloom]

Feels like a fun time to come.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. Perfect time cum trees.

[Rachel Bloom]

Perfect. We've got some things to start. The tomato salad, the feta with plum flaky bread. You've got some share plates over here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Here.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm just pumping like a footballer.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes, you are. Very, very much.

[Rachel Bloom]

Cucumber salad and the lemony chicken and. Oh, gorgeous. That I haven't tried yet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, it's so good. That was my suggestion. Wait, just.

[Rachel Bloom]

Do you ever have the term in high school? God come.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

God come.

[Rachel Bloom]

God come. Like, when food was really good, some of my friends would be like, oh, that's God come.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, no.

[Rachel Bloom]

Isn't that so good?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so ridiculous. Yeah, I went to Catholic high school. I don't think we were allowed to say that.

[Rachel Bloom]

I went to public school. So we were all bad kids. Mm.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right.

[Rachel Bloom]

Mm, yeah. You know me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So bad. Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rachel tells me about weaving heavy topics into crazy ex girlfriend being into the exorcist as a kid, and why middle school sucks for everyone. Okay, be right back. So recently I've gotten back into somewhat of a consistent workout routine. But one thing I did realize, and I'm embarrassed to say this, is that some of my athleisure wear was looking a little worse for wear. I ended up doing a little refresh with some items from Quints. I got a few of the flow knit Breeze performance tees and polo shirts. They're super comfy and lightweight. They look really great. And fun fact, the fabric is made from recycled water bottles. All right, but we gotta talk about the price. These shirts feel just as nice as the name brand shirts I have that were quadruple the price. Okay, how is this possible? Let me tell you. Quint's partners directly with factories, cutting out the cost of the middleman and passing the savings directly onto you. And I appreciate that they only work with factories that have safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices. Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with Quince. Go to Quince.com JTF for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C-E.com JTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. That's a year, people. Quince.com JTF this episode is brought to.

[Rachel Bloom]

You by Google Gemini. With the Gemini app, you can talk live and have a real time conversation with an AI assistant. It's great for all kinds of things, like if you want to practice for an upcoming interview, ask for advice on things to do in a new city, or brainstorm creative ideas. And by the way, this script was actually read by Gemini. Download the Gemini app for iOS and Android today. Must be 18 to use Gemini live.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. Yeah, so when I was watching, you know, the show, and then I saw the turn.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where death literally interrupts your show, played by David hall. And I realized that this show was going to be about death. And this was literally the day after. After Gavin passed away.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But let me tell you how therapeutic it was to hear you sort of break down and disseminate mortality and just the healing process. The way you start off the show is you talk about how, you know, your dog's going to die soon.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But you get us sort of comfortable with this thing about, like, you know, you hope to outlive your dog. You don't want to. Your dog to outlive you.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, that'd be fucked up.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That would be totally fucked up. And I just. I was very taken by how you were able to sort of weave your way through these kind of tough topics. And right when I would think that, okay, she's not gonna be able to make me laugh, anytime in the next 10 minutes, you would say something that would make me completely just break and laugh and. And release. So it was a very therapeutic thing for me just in that moment. So I was actually. It felt like a godsend, the fact that I got to get an early link for your special and watch it on that day.

[Rachel Bloom]

Honestly, that makes me so. Cause when you say you watched it the day after he died, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ. Like, laughter's what got me through a lot of the time that I'm talking about. And, I don't know, funny podcasts and funny TV shows and rereading funny books. I reread a compilation of the Onion. And there's a part of laughing at things that for a moment, you, like, forget death. There's a part of laughing that makes you almost feel immortal. And I can't really articulate it, which is why the show kind of comes back around to being silly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

But also, like, it's kind of all we have.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But it's something that you. I mean, I obviously became a fan of yours first through Crazy Ex Girlfriend, and, you know, how you navigated mental health and sort of weave that through musical theater was so. It was so deftly done. And so, like, it was. It. It felt very sleight of hand. Like, you didn't realize at times that, oh, this is. We're talking about heavy subjects because we're also talking about ridiculous things. And these are musical numbers, like, set in, you know, like, 1940s or 1950s or, you know, in the style like ABBA. And so I knew that I was in good hands with you when I started watching this special. But I want to talk to you. What made you want to take that genre and sort of embrace it in a way and use it as a way to get these bigger ideas across eventually scripted television.

[Rachel Bloom]

Part of my love is the Clash, and I think is the Clash, but not. Not the Clash, but the Clash between them. Because there's a part of me that has a very, very dark side and a very. Goes to a place where I'm thinking about really dark things. And I grew up by the beach in the sun, and my brain was not that. I mean, I watched welcome to the Dollhouse when I was, like, 11.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, that's such a dark movie.

[Rachel Bloom]

I read the exorcist for my 8th grade book report. I fucking loved it. Like, I just. There was a part of me that was very dark, and then there was the other part of me that did Adelaide's Lament for the Middle School Lip Sync. Right. And it's these very dark sides of me and these very light sides of me. And so that definitely went into so much of what we were doing on Crazy Ex Girlfriend.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I can only imagine that it must be extremely cathartic as someone. I mean, I was also ruthlessly bullied in school. But then to create something and then have great success with it. Did you ever. I mean, what. Do you have relationships with people from that time of your life that have reached out to you?

[Rachel Bloom]

Uh, some bullies apologized in high school. A couple. One of my bullies came to see one of my shows. This is before Crazy Ex, and, like, apologized. And she'd been through a lot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow.

[Rachel Bloom]

Um, I mean, I think what's funny, Especially this middle school bully. Well, no, so this bully who came and. And reached out to me at the time, we had coffee. This is over 10 years ago. I had a song come out called the OC Dance, which is like a. Like a call and response dance song about ocd, which I had had. This woman says to me oh my God, I have OCD too now. I don't know to this day if she was talking about. She actually had dark, intrusive thoughts that you could only relieve with a certain confession or action. Or if she just likes things neat and tidy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Uh huh.

[Rachel Bloom]

But I think even her saying that and her being like, she was miserable in middle school too. And I'm like, well, really, you were the most popular girl. You had everything. The kind of general thesis that's happened, especially in the past 10, 12 years is realizing that I'm not that unique. That the problems that I saw that were bespoke to me are actually, I wouldn't say common, but there's a lot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of people, there's a lot of universality.

[Rachel Bloom]

There's a lot of universality. There's a lot of people who have. No one likes middle school. I think that's what I've realized is even the most popular kids were always afraid their popularity was gonna plummet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

How did you. Do you feel comfortable talking about how you found how you navigated your mental health at an early age? Was it? Did it? Were you?

[Rachel Bloom]

I didn't. I covered it. I kind of have a show pony instinct. So it leaked through like something was off with me in middle school, definitely. But something's also off with everyone in middle school. So I was a weird thing is I saw myself as so weird, but looking back at videos I'm actually not. There are other kids, other friends of mine who when I look at videos of them, they're also weird.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. We're trapped in our own personalities at that age too. It's like you can't see beyond the, you know, your own self at that age.

[Rachel Bloom]

And that's how I felt. So the answer is, how did I navigate? Is I for a long time would mostly cover how I was feeling because I was ashamed and I didn't want people to see me as crazy. And then it would come in outbursts. I would have moments where I occasionally little things where I would scream at people or I would have moments of depression where people would see it. And it took me a long time. I only got in real therapy probably my junior year of college and it was a long road. Felt like I was a little bit sleepwalking through life and just being purely reactive. I was also very ambitious. I'm so weird. I'm so lazy. That's what I really thought was like for years I would this teacher who said something, laziness is a form of fear. And I would quote that because that's what I believed. I believed that I was lazy because I was afraid. And there was a part of that that was true, that when I got into school, I was surrounded by people who were more naturally talented than I was around me. And so there was a part of me that stopped working less hard because it's easier to fail and be like, well, I didn't work hard than try your best and still fail. But also, I had adhd.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. No one can really dissect the storm that's happening. They can't explain the storm that's happening aside into other people.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. And like, even now, there were. There were people I've met all the time who, like, oh, we would have been best friends in middle school. This looks beautiful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I smelled this coming in from, like.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All the fennel, six feet away. That's incredible. I don't think I've had this before.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, it's one of my favorites. That's a tahdig.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes, the tahdig.

[Rachel Bloom]

The Moroccan spice carrots, and the chicken skewers that are super friendly with the pine nut pepper schmear on the side.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[Rachel Bloom]

How are you doing?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Drinks?

[Rachel Bloom]

Got everything you need?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Great. This is a party. What do they call this? Jeweled rice? When it's like, brown and crusty on.

[Rachel Bloom]

The bottom, it does look like. It looks like a beautiful little engagement ring for my stomach.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Rachel Bloom]

Will you marry me? Yes, I will. Oh, this food's really special.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, that's great. It's really great. How. First of all. So your daughter must be four and a half now.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I only know this because my son was born in July of 2020. Oh, yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, so you have a similar. I mean, it's interesting as the months change, you had a full lockdown baby.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We weren't. And also, I know this is gonna surprise you, but we didn't carry.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, I was gonna ask, like, how was your pregnancy?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, our surrogate's pregnancy was great. It was very smooth. But it was, you know, that was a wild thing, you know, going to Vegas where our son. Both of our sons were born. But during.

[Rachel Bloom]

Did you have twins?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, no. But we used stacked them. Yeah, we stacked them. Truly. Talk to me about putting this show together, having just given birth. Like, at what point did the piece. You were talking about this moment sitting in your daughter's room.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Looking at the whiteboard, thinking, okay, this shows. Not this show anymore.

[Rachel Bloom]

Yeah. I got asked to do Mike Birbiglia's podcast, which is all about making art and I hadn't prepped for the podcast and so I came on and I was like, what are we talking about? He's like, you gotta talk about something you're working on. And so I was like, I have this idea for a show where death would interrupt. I talked about it on the podcast and then my first standup show where I mostly did old material, tried out a couple of new jokes. Not even about what's in the special, but just new jokes was in, I think it was an outdoor standup show in May 2021. So it wasn't even until probably a year after I had the idea that I was even comfortable performing live again. And I don't know if you did any live shows around then, but it was like everyone who get up, you'd basically come up and wipe the mic down with a sand. Like it was like a stripper pole basically.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rachel and I talk about the status dysmorphia she experienced after her show ended and the paranoia we all feel around young babies. Okay, be right back.

[Rachel Bloom]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rachel Bloom]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rachel Bloom]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rachel Bloom]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rachel Bloom]

My therapist has called it status dysmorphia at times because I've been like, if I don't sell a thing, I'll say, I don't know if I matter. And she's like, well, you have a little bit of status dysmorphia. And I went, everyone does, because no one quite knows where they stand. So if you're gonna offer someone a role, you're going for the person who's gonna get your thing made. And chances are the first person you're gonna pick is the person who's really, really famous at that time. And I think I came off a crazy ex girlfriend being like, I'm gonna get so many movie offers. And I didn't, and I can't tell you why. I mean, you were on a really, really popular show. For me, my show was a cult show. We got a lot more viewers, actually, after the show had ended during the pandemic, if you watched it, you loved it, but most people didn't. So I think that that messed with me. I mean, for you, I'm surprised, actually.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, the way you're phrasing this. Your show is you. Actually, this is kind of fucked up.

[Rachel Bloom]

You're more famous than I am, so I'm like. But also, it's like, it's also a right place, right time thing. But I also think coming off of Crazy X and what year did Modern Family end?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

2000. We shot our last episode February of 2020, so.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, so you ended even later than we did. So, like, right when our shows ended, the industry fucking changed.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

So that's the other thing. So there's the acting perspective of where are all my lead parts? Oh, wait, who watched my show? Not a lot of people, but I have a Golden Globe. Oh, you don't care. Copy that. So there's that aspect. And then as a writer trying to sell stuff, seeing the market collapse, all of the networks.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, we have a visitor.

[Rachel Bloom]

Oh, La Chanatova.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They're looking for Sarah and Sarah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Looking for Sarah and Sarah. Rabbi Korf.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Rabbi Korf is here. I love it. So cute. A rabbi just popped in.

[Rachel Bloom]

A rabbi. If we're all talking about this, a rabbi just popped in. The rabbi wants something from us. I think he wants us to believe.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What if it just all of a sudden, Fiddler on the Roof started tradition.

[Rachel Bloom]

I don't know why the rabbi popped in. Let me tell you. I forget, but the rabbi popped in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's like a scene out of Crazy X. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

I don't know. You're not going to be handed a thing. And it's just. It's really. I don't know, it's really fungible and it's funny. Like, my publicist is here and I'm. I want. Right. Like, I don't know. I feel like everyone you rep probably thinks, like, has this moment. Except for, like, Tina Fey. Cause she represents Tina Fey. You don't have to share anything. You don't have to share anything personal about Tina Fey. That's not what I'm saying. But I feel like everyone, no matter.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She definitely doesn't have as much problem as we do.

[Rachel Bloom]

No, she's so famous. But everyone has this idea of status dysmorphia. Isn't. Doesn't everyone have that moment of instability of, like, am I famous? Do I even matter? Yeah, but it's not exclusive to celebrities. It's also not exclusive to celebrities. That's a really good point.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We heard.

[Rachel Bloom]

That's a really good point.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

From four tables down, I think.

[Rachel Bloom]

But I think that's a good point that we all, but all humans want validation.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Isn't it so funny, celebrities? Sometimes we just feel like you guys are so much harder for us. You guys, you don't understand.

[Rachel Bloom]

But it's funny. Cause I don't think of myself as a celebrity, partially because, like, that's all.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think about myself, My whole identity. No, I don't.

[Rachel Bloom]

But also for most people, I'm super. Not like, I either. I'm the person. If you know me, you're like a huge fan. But most 99.99% of people have no idea. To the point where, like, I'll read Deuxmoi, where I'm not part of that celebrity, where I'm like, oh, what are the famous people doing? What are they eating?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. Right.

[Rachel Bloom]

They're still a little separate in my head. So that's also a little bit of an imposter syndrome. But coming off of Crazy Ex Girlfriend, I think now I'm finally starting to get a sense of what a career looks like. And your career has different ebbs and flows and tops and bottoms, and all you can do is do your best work and be consistent. And it's why I love live performance. Because if I'm not booking a role in film or tv, there's always live performance. Would you like, as far as doing my own. As far as, like, anywhere from, like, doing my own, putting my show up at Dynasty Typewriter, or, like, jumping on an improv show, I can always have a way to be artistic.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now, why have you not been in a Broadway musical? Is this because you don't have any interest or because no one's asked you?

[Rachel Bloom]

No one's asked me. They have my number.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, well, I just want to put that out there. That should happen.

[Rachel Bloom]

Let me make this very clear. I have not been offered a Broadway musical yet. And I have not been. I'm not fielding offers. I'm not turning them down. But to be for the record, yes, I would like to do Broadway, and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'd like to see that if anyone.

[Rachel Bloom]

Wants to approach me, people have my contact information. My email's really easy to figure out. It's, like, astoundingly easy to figure out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm not gonna give it out.

[Rachel Bloom]

I'm not gonna give. But just, like, it's really easy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Joanna, I had another great question, which I forgot about. Speaking of that you do talk about in your special. And I love this because I definitely relate to this. Looking at the Internet and, like, listening to parents and, like, hearing all the crazy, insane ways that your baby can die, which is insane when you're already scared about becoming a new parent.

[Rachel Bloom]

And after my friend has actually died.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I remember we posted a photo of our son's nursery. Cause we had a partnership with Crate and Barrel, and we had to post some photos on Instagram, and we had a tree in our live plant near the crib. And the amount of people that were like, that is terrible for a baby. And the allergens on the tree. And one of those leaves could fall on his face and suffocate it's always suffocating.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's always suffocating.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I know you also talked about, like, carbon monoxide being a thing that you were never really aware of.

[Rachel Bloom]

Well, because the hotel where my husband and I got married, a couple was found dead in a room of carbon monoxide poisoning. And we'd actually. Just. A couple months before this happened, we had revisited the hotel and they'd done a whole refurbishment, and we'd been like, oh, they added a lot of nice outdoor fire pits at times where, like, smells a little like gas. That's weird. Yeah. It turns out there it was riddled with carbon monoxide leaks. They had turned off the carbon monoxide alarms. The carbon monoxide alarms were going off and guests were complaining, so they just turned them off.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yep. Oh, my God.

[Rachel Bloom]

And this is how people die. People die of carbon. People die of carbon monoxide poisoning from fireplaces, you know, from cars. So that was another thing of, like, oh, okay. This place that I'd actually seen as, you know, the best weekend of my life is now a death. So. Yeah. And I think also when your friend. When you experience someone suddenly dying, you can't help but navel gaze and be like, am I next? When am I next? I could be next.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You think about your own mortality. Absolutely.

[Rachel Bloom]

How am I next?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

And then, of course, if you have a baby, they're so fragile. And. Yeah. If you're told that anything can make them suffocate if you're reading the right materials, which I was obviously.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, I found out.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's horrifying. They're helpless. And it's why I really. I don't think I want another kid. I don't want an infant again. And maybe it's also just was this specifically vulnerable time for me, but, like, it was. I remember when she learned to. Finally learned to roll on her stomach. Watching her stomach sleep for the first week was like. But she's suffocating herself. Because that's what I've been told not to do. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I know.

[Rachel Bloom]

And it makes it worse with baby monitors. Cause our parents didn't have video monitors. They just, you know, hoped for the best, I guess.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But now that you have videos, every morning was a.

[Rachel Bloom]

Every morning's like a nose.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We'll see.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's horrifying.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It is.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's hard, but it fucking happens.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, I know.

[Rachel Bloom]

And I don't talk about this in the special, but I was concerned about dying during childbirth.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

Our Americas, not great for maternal death rates. California has a better rate than the country. I did a lot of research, but did you know that basically we're still evolving, that our pelvises narrowed so that we could walk on two feet, but simultaneously, our brains got bigger to make us smarter. So as our hips narrowed so we could walk on two feet, the brains got bigger. And that's why our young is born technically premature, because if they were born any later, they wouldn't be able to come out of our tiny. Of our tiny hips. But it's still a really imperfect process. And it's partially why our human childbirth is, from what I've gleaned, significantly more painful than if we were walking on all fours. Because our hips would be bigger.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. I mean, I see these elephants giving birth, and they're just having a snack, and then they give birth and they continue to eat that hay, and then the elephant walks. Yeah.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's because we give birth to premature young. That's why they call it the fourth trimester is. Cause, like, they should still be in the womb.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Interesting.

[Rachel Bloom]

They shouldn't be here. And you get that from your. Did you feel that with your kids? Like, there's something about a newborn where they're like, why have you foisted this existence upon me, Father? I. Don't put me back in the lady. Like, they don't like you. They don't like this. They're cold.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. They're like, what is all this space and air? Like, what are you putting in my mouth? Yeah. You have a very good sense of humor over these things. I mean, the fact that you played that music during. What was the Space Jam during?

[Rachel Bloom]

That was my Pump Up Riff playlist. Also, the epidural had really kicked in. And also I was on three hours of sleep, and I was loopy. But, yeah, I try to. Again, like, I try to keep myself happy because there's a part of myself that could really slide into darkness. And that's kind of what the special is, is that I kept myself happy. I kept myself happy, and at a certain point, it got dark and I couldn't avoid it. And then I felt all the darkness that I'd kind of been avoiding.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, I'm so proud of you for doing this special. I'm so proud that you are able to talk about these incredibly difficult moments and give so much light to other people. I certainly felt that when I watched it. And I'm really grateful that the special exists. I can't wait to show it to Justin, who's also my husband, who's dealing with his own sort of Grief with Gavin. I think it was really. It was very helpful. And I mean, it's such a beautiful tribute to your friend Adam. It's such a beautiful tribute to your daughter and to your dog.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's ultimately a big tribute to the dog.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it really is. And I just can't wait for people to watch it and rewatch it. I think that it was, you know, because it was so hard to categorize and define. It was such a meaningful thing for so many people to watch because it's. If you're not a fan of comedy, you have a way in. If you are a fan of comedy, you have a way in. It really speaks to a broad audience, and yet the themes are razor sharp and spot on. And you should just be really, really proud.

[Rachel Bloom]

Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of the special. It's great.

[Rachel Bloom]

Thank you. That makes me really happy. And your opinion means a lot to me. Well, it should, because you're very smart.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I'm a very prolific podcast host now.

[Rachel Bloom]

I know. Congratulations on this. And also, thank you. Thank you for a beautiful. We are recording this on the Jewish New Year. Thank you for a beautiful Rosh Hashanah lunch.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're very welcome.

[Rachel Bloom]

What a wonderful way to welcome in this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I forgot it was a Jewish New year.

[Rachel Bloom]

It's like 5785, I think.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Ah, feels. It feels like a new year.

[Rachel Bloom]

I texted someone, I was like, this is gonna be my year, baby. 5785.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It is. It is. And because of that, Dinner's On Me.

[Rachel Bloom]

There you go.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wasn't my best one. Wasn't my best one.

[Rachel Bloom]

I thought that was great. And because of that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And because of that, Dinners On Me. This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Kismet in East Hollywood. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know him as the lead of the new NBC medical drama Brilliant Minds. It's my friend Zachary Quinto. Now, we've had Zach on the show before, but this time around, I want to chat about this huge moment in his career. I mean, he's playing the lead character in this incredible new drama. I see his face plastered on billboards all over la. It's just such an exciting moment for him, and I wanted to take a minute to dig into what it means and how he got here. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Angela Vanguard. Sam Baer engineered this episode, Hans Dale. She composed our theme music. Our head of Production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tamika Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.