Riz Ahmed — on prepping for ‘Sound of Metal,’ and how his wife led him to ‘RELAY’

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Guest: Riz Ahmed — On Prepping for ‘Sound of Metal,’ and How His Wife Led Him to ‘RELAY’

Released: August 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and lively breakfast episode, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson welcomes acclaimed actor, rapper, and activist Riz Ahmed for a meal at Deschume on Portobello Road, London. The conversation delves into the intersection of identity, artistry, and social change—covering Riz’s career, prepping for transformative roles like 'Sound of Metal', the creative origins of his new film ‘Relay’, struggles and responsibilities with representation, fatherhood, and the power of authentic storytelling. Throughout, both men reflect candidly on personal growth, vulnerability, and the unexpected connections between their creative and private lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Differences Between British and American Acting Approaches

[06:08]

• Riz highlights that British actors tend to see themselves more as craftspeople, focusing on not taking themselves too seriously and viewing acting as a job.

• Jesse compares this to the American method of acting, where actors often bring their whole heart and soul, sometimes at personal cost.

  • Quote (Riz Ahmed, 06:08):
    “The British thing is like, don’t take yourself too seriously… In the American point of view, because of all that history and the method, it’s more like you bring your whole heart and soul to it.”

• They share personal anecdotes about burnout and learning to be more economical with their craft, especially after becoming parents.

Managing Emotional Spillover from Roles

[08:43]

• Riz describes the physical and psychological toll of inhabiting difficult roles, recounting how ‘The Night Of’ left him with hives and sleepless nights.

  • Quote (Riz, 08:43):
    “Your body doesn’t know it’s acting. So you go home, you are stressed, you are tense, you might not have restful sleep. When I was doing ‘The Night Of’, I broke out in hives.”

• He discusses shifting from perfectionism to accepting that the most authentic work flows through him, rather than being willed.

Art Imitating Life: Roles Finding the Actor

[09:41]

• Jesse and Riz reflect on how sometimes, unknowingly, their roles mirror circumstances in their real lives.

  • Quote (Riz, 10:11):
    “The role that you need in your life kind of finds you at that time.”

• Jesse connects this to his journey as a gay actor on ‘Modern Family’ and in advocacy for marriage equality.

The Three Stages of Representation in Media

[22:42]

• Riz lays out his framework for how minority characters evolve on screen:

  1. Stereotype/caricature
  2. Subversion/humanization
  3. Seamless representation, where identity is “effortlessly woven” into the character
  • Quote (Riz, 22:42):
    “You start off first with a stereotype… then you subvert that or you complicate it. The next stage is… it’s not about that. It’s effortlessly woven into the character’s truth.”

• Both agree the ultimate goal is presenting themselves authentically, rather than representing an entire community.

On ‘Relay’ – Origin Story & Creative Choices

[24:16, 25:07, 26:34]

• The inception of ‘Relay’ is revealed: Riz’s wife, novelist Fatima Farheen Mirza, read the script and greenlit his participation, serving as his “North Star.”

  • Quote (Riz, 25:09):
    “She is like my North Star. Creatively, she has great taste… She read the script and she’s a tough audience. She was like, I would watch this.”

• In the film, Riz plays a fixer helping whistleblowers disappear, inspired by real but secretive legal advisors.

• Riz’s character is strikingly off-the-grid—a fantasy life for him, rarely uttering a word for the first 45 minutes—a creative decision he relished.

Casting and Communication Styles in ‘Relay’

[31:59, 32:39]

• The relay operators are real New York theater actors delivering tense, pivotal information deadpan—adding a fresh, low-key layer to the thriller.

  • Quote (Jesse, 32:31):
    “It’s just people doing their job. It is—it’s like a temp job for them almost.”

• Unique directorial choices, like dialogue relayed through a series of different voices, create a “cat-and-mouse” suspense.

The Rigors of Prepping for ‘Sound of Metal’

[33:30–36:00]

• Riz recounts starting from scratch with drumming, American Sign Language, and immersing himself in addiction support communities.

  • Quote (Riz, 34:13):
    “My life for that year was: get up, do my ASL sessions… go practice drums… go to meetings—NA, AA. When you lay it out like that, it’s kind of like, man, that’s intense. And it was.”

• He emphasizes the privilege of research and human connection, shifting from self-focus to service for the communities he represents.

Deep Lessons from the Deaf Community

[36:49]

• Learning sign language revealed to Riz a new emotional openness. Deaf friends describe hearing people as emotionally repressed, since signers must employ full physical expression.

  • Quote (Riz, 36:49):
    “We think deaf people think of hearing people as emotionally repressed… When we communicate, we communicate with our whole body.”

• Several deaf friends from ‘Sound of Metal’ also worked on ‘Relay’, carrying community and inclusion from one project to the next.

Creating ‘The Long Goodbye’ — Processing Cultural Exile

[39:09–41:23]

• The album and Oscar-winning short film were born from a sense of alienation as a British Pakistani, inspired by Rumi and classical heartbreak poetry. Riz reframed diaspora heartbreak through music and visual storytelling.

  • Quote (Riz, 40:51):
    “Through that poetic tradition, I was able to find a creative way of processing that feeling. And so the album is a breakup album with Britain. You know, the first line is, Britain’s broken up with me.”

• Collaborator Anil Karia was connected through mutual friends, and their creative process was organic and conversation-driven.

Career Wins, Losses, and Making Your Own Work

[43:03–45:24]

• Jesse jokes about Riz losing the Oscar for ‘Sound of Metal’ but winning the next year for ‘The Long Goodbye.’ Riz sees it as a sign to lean into creating his own projects.

  • Quote (Riz, 44:40):
    “After ‘The Long Goodbye,’ the message I felt from the universe was: lean into your insanity… do the thing that is a risk, that feels bold and like, who knows?”

• Riz teases a feature film adaptation of ‘Hamlet’ directed by Anil Karia, inspired by this mindset.

Producing ‘Joyland’ — Celebrating Complex Trans Stories from Pakistan

[45:29–49:43]

• Riz passionately recommends ‘Joyland,’ a prize-winning love story between a man and a transgender woman in Pakistan, produced by his company Left Handed. He describes the often-misunderstood but longstanding place of trans and nonbinary communities in Pakistan.

  • Quote (Riz, 47:24):
    “Being nonbinary is a recognized gender identity you can hold on your ID card... It’s not to say that it’s a community that doesn’t face massive challenges… But it is a recognized part of the culture and the society, and it has been for a very long time.”

• Both marvel at the rich, surprising stories often hidden from Western conversation.

Fatherhood and Shifting Perspectives

[50:39–52:25]

• Jesse and Riz reflect on how becoming fathers dissolved old identities and brought a sense of service and spiritual wholeness.

  • Quote (Riz, 51:13):
    “But then what you gain is you become part of a greater whole, and you’re in service of something that’s bigger than, and other than, yourself… which is the core of spirituality, the core of all purpose.”

• Jesse shares a touching “kid’s socks in my pocket” story, grounding big achievements in everyday joys.

Candid Finale

[52:30]

• Riz praises the atmosphere and conversation:
  • Quote (Riz, 52:30):
    “This is easily the most chill, fun, normal, human podcast I’ve ever done.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Roles Echoing Personal Life:

  • “The role you need in your life finds you.” — Riz Ahmed [10:11]

• On Moving Past Stereotype:

  • “It’s not about that—it’s effortlessly woven into the fabric of this character’s truth.” — Riz Ahmed [22:42]

• On Community and Artistic Service:

  • “I want you to see this and feel seen. I want you to see this and feel a little bit healed.” — Riz Ahmed [35:56]

• On Fatherhood:

  • “You’re in service of something bigger than yourself, which is the core of all purpose.” — Riz Ahmed [51:13]

• On Creative Freedom:

  • “Lean into your insanity, man—do the thing that makes you feel alive.” — Riz Ahmed [44:40]

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Key Timestamps

• [06:08] British vs. American acting philosophies
• [08:43] Letting go of roles and self-critique
• [10:11] Roles mirroring real life
• [22:42] The three stages of representation
• [24:16] ‘Relay’ origin story and wife’s creative influence
• [25:09] Riz on his wife as his creative North Star
• [26:34] Real-world fixers and thrillers
• [33:30–36:00] Prepping for ‘Sound of Metal’: drums, ASL, addiction
• [36:49] Lessons from the deaf community
• [39:09–41:23] Making ‘The Long Goodbye’ and insights on belonging
• [44:40] The universe, Oscar wins, and self-made opportunities
• [45:29–49:43] ‘Joyland’ and telling unseen stories
• [50:39] The impact and perspective-shift of fatherhood
• [52:30] Riz on the podcast experience

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Warm, candid, and intimate—with a sense of vulnerability, humor, and mutual respect.
• Moments of laughter and self-deprecating jokes (Jesse’s nerves, the “spicy” chicken keema, the “kid’s socks” revelation).
• The conversation weaves between serious reflections on identity and lighthearted quips about acting, food, and fatherhood.
• The chemistry between Jesse and Riz enables openness and layered discussion, fitting the “breaking bread” premise.

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For Listeners:

If you’re interested in nuanced perspectives on representation, the challenges and joys of transformative acting, the evolution of fatherhood, or want to hear about global queer cinema, this episode offers both food for thought and genuine laughs. You’ll leave inspired to check out ‘Relay’, ‘Joyland’, and 'The Long Goodbye', and perhaps to reflect on your own creative and personal journey.

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[End of Summary]

Transcript

[A]

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes have people with British accents right now.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Today on the show. You know him from Films like Sound of Metal and TV shows like the Night Of.

[A]

It's Riz Ahmed.

[C]

My character basically lives a version of my fantasy life, which is that he's off grid. He's not on his iPhone.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

He's not on his laptop. He's not in any of that.

[B]

This is Dinner's on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I am. Oh, gosh, I am really excited about this one today. Riz Ahmed. God, I'm such a fan of his. He is a British Pakistani actor, rapper, writer and activist whose career bridges groundbreaking artistry and urgent social commentary. He's also just such an incredible actor in person. I have been following his career for quite some time, actually. I first watched him in the Night of, which is an incredible series that took place about 10 years ago. If you haven't seen it, go watch it on hbo. But after that, I kind of went back and I found his earlier work, the Road to Guantanamo and Shifty, the Four Lions. He has a new movie coming out that I just watched called Relay. It's fantastic. It's unlike anything he's done. I am thrilled to have him for breakfast today. I know dinner's on me, but today breakfast is on me. We're meeting before my two show day on one of my last weekends here in London. And we're at Deshum. Deschum is a restaurant I love in London. They have several locations. We are at the Deschume on Portobello Road. When people tell you you're heading to London, there's this place that everyone insists that you have to try, and that is Dashoom. It's inspired by the old Irani cafes of Bombay and it's got this amazing vibe. It's warm, it's lively, it's a little bit cinematic. It's also an incredible place for breakfast. They have one of my favorite breakfasts in all of London.

[A]

I've actually.

[B]

I've never been to this location of Duchum on Portobello Road. And I'm pleased to know that there is some sort of a lodging upstairs that you could stay in. I love that.

[A]

I'm not sure what it is or.

[B]

What it looks like, but if it's anything like the restaurant, it's warm and vibey and cool and I want to live there.

[A]

All right.

[B]

I cannot wait for Riz to arrive. Let's get to the conversation.

[C]

How you doing, man?

[B]

I'm really good.

[C]

Yeah?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

How's it all going at the National?

[B]

I love it. Have you. Do you do theater at all?

[C]

I did some like right at the start and I haven't had a chance to since, but. But man.

[B]

Sneak.

[C]

It's a trip, huh?

[B]

It's a dream. I mean, I know as an American it's very rare for us to get invited to the national. It just doesn't happen, does it? Not the National. That's a. That's, you know, that's a big deal. It's.

[C]

You're a big deal, man. Well, yeah, I mean, let's just, let's just, let's just come out and say it, man.

[B]

But it's, you know, it's a Sondheim musical. He's American. There's a lot of. There's other Americans in the cast with me. But it's, it's mostly. I mean, the majority is. It's a British cast and it's been a dream.

[C]

Have you found British actors compared to American ones?

[B]

Grumby, grumpy, more serious? I'll tell you that.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. I think the funny thing about I think British actors and the approach to acting here is so fascinating, the difference from the American point of view. But I think the British thing is like, don't take yourself too seriously. You know, you come in to do a job, you're a craftsman or a craftsman, you know. And I think in the American point of view, because of all that history and you know, the method and on all of that kind of thing, it's more like you bring your whole heart and soul to it. But I think that there's actually a lot that can be learned from the American way of doing things and vice versa as well, you know.

[B]

Well, there's definitely what I'm learning and then this. A lot's happened after becoming a dad, but like just self care and not because I was that type of actor. I was like, I brought everything to the stage every night. And like, there is a point where I was like.

[D]

I have to be.

[B]

A little bit more economical with the way I'm offering myself up because I don't have anything left for this family that I have.

[C]

It's that classic story, that John Gielgud and Dustin Hoffman story, right? They were like, was it Marathon man or something like that? It's John Gielgud in Marathon Man. I'm probably totally butchering the story. I thought what it was is that like Dustin Hoffman's like running, just exhausting himself, running on a spot, doing push ups, star jumps, he's gotta be out of breath. And John Gielgud's like, darling, what on earth are you doing? And he goes, I've got to be tired in this next scene.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm gonna be out of breath.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And Gielgud goes, try acting, though. And it's that, you know, I mean, it's that slight difference.

[A]

But when you were.

[B]

I mean, I don't know how you were when you were starting. When you started acting. I did feel like if I wasn't doing all that and, like, really feeling exhaustion, like I wasn't doing enough and I was boning it in. But that was. That's how I was. That's how I operated when I was younger, you know.

[C]

And what is it now for you now? I just.

[B]

It's just, you know, age and experience and also just exhaustion, like, with my day. Like, I show up to the theater now and I'm tired. It's not like I'm giving a smaller percentage of myself, but I have to be more economical and smart about how I'm, you know, working. And also leaving things at the theater is something I've learned to do. I used to bring the roles home with me. And, I mean, I've also been lucky in my career. I've played very lighthearted roles. I haven't, like, I imagine, like, with a lot of your work, I mean, there's a lot of heavy stuff you could be bringing home. And you have to, you know, you have to be kind with yourself and be okay with leaving that at work.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. It's weird because I kind of feel like when your work is your best, you have probably the least to do with it. It's like a vibe, an energy is kind of moving through you. So I think for me, it used to show up in two ways when I go home. One is, you know, your body doesn't know it's acting. Yeah, right. So you go home, you are stressed, you are tense, you might not have restful sleep. You know, you're. You know, when I was doing the night off, I broke out in hives. I was like, crazy. Stuff was happening, you know. But there's another side of it that you are in control of that I've got better at, which is, man, I should have done it like this. I screwed that up, man. Now I know what that scene is. I should have done it like this, man. I was like. I was a psycho with that stuff. I'd be, like, waking up in my bed three years after I'd rapped something. I'm not exaggerating. I'd go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. And I'd go, I know what that line should be about.

[B]

Like a play you did in high school.

[C]

Without exaggerating. Yes. Like, years later. Can I ask you something that, like, when you're taking a role on, you sometimes don't realize how similar it is to what's going on in your own life. And by the end of it or something, you're like, oh, my God, this is. This is me. Because I feel like the role that you need in your life kind of finds you at that time.

[B]

No, there's definitely truth, and I resonate with that. But I think that, I mean, socially things have definitely lined up with me, like, you know, being a part of Modern Family and then also how. Oh, here, let's order.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

Good morning to you.

[B]

Put a pin in that.

[E]

Nice to have you.

[B]

My favorite breakfast in all splendor.

[E]

Lovely things on the breakfast menu there.

[D]

Okay.

[E]

French toasts, very popular. Crumpty eggs, my favorite, the chicken keema. It's a little bit spicy. Will definitely wake you up in the morning. And our naan rolls, which we're very famous for as well. Of course, you may have had one of those before. The chicken keema is definitely very different and will liven you up in the morning, that's for sure.

[B]

I'm very intrigued by the chicken keema and you're scaring me at the same time.

[E]

I think a nice mix of intrigue.

[B]

And fear goes a long way. Is it super spicy? Am I gonna, like, have heartburn? Oh, my gosh. You're being so cryptic. And I love it.

[D]

It's delicious.

[B]

Okay, I'm gonna do the chicken quinoa for sure.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

100%. Kima. I was the only option.

[B]

Nice.

[C]

At any point, Kima is like, yeah.

[B]

We'Re both going down together.

[C]

It's like the home cooked options, you.

[D]

Know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Okay.

[E]

Those on the way for you now.

[C]

Thank you, man. Appreciate it.

[B]

Yeah, you know, when socially things line up like Modern Family and then also, you know, I was in the trenches fighting for marriage equality. And, like, I do feel like I felt so lucky to be part of a pop culture touchstone that was also part of that same issue. Like, I was like, I have packaged myself brilliantly right now. The fact that I could be a part of this show and also, like, actively fighting for marriage equality. But when you're saying, like, you're.

[C]

Isn't that because 1. I guess what I'm saying is, like, these things blur, right?

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Because you are, no matter how economical you're trying to be, you're offering a part of your heart, part of your soul. I would ask, do you think you packaged yourself or do you think this story you were telling kind of, it entered your life, you know, and it carried you forwards with it?

[B]

Oh, 100% entered my life. And I completely understand what you're saying about allowing things to change you. And even if there are things that I don't expect to change me, I think it's hard.

[C]

Like what this thing is, you know, that we're trying to do, it's like it's giving opportunity, giving people an opportunity to find themselves in unexpected places. Yeah, right. I'll be watching something and I'm just like, I am Dame Judi Deitch, right? Like, just somehow that's me, that person, that woman right there, that's me. And it just reminds us, you know, slap you around the face way. It's like, nah, man, you're the same. There's these differences that seem to separate us, but actually underneath it all, we are one. And so ideally, that's what happens when an audience watches something. They recognize themselves in the other, in an unexpected place.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. It reveals parts of you that you don't know existed. Absolutely.

[A]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, we talk about what it means to embody marginalized voices on screen. And he reveals the fascinating origin story of his latest film, Relay. Okay, be right back. Lately, our August calendar has been absolutely packed between summer travels, Sunday dinners with friends, chasing our kids around the park.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's busy in the best possible way. And when you're juggling all that and.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

That's why I've got my eye on.

[A]

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[B]

Okay.

[A]

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[B]

But I like the word perfect score. Okay.

[A]

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[B]

Were you always drawn to work that resonated with what was going on in the world. I mean, if you look at your early work, I mean, almost everything you did seemed to have such impact on what was actually happening in the world at that moment. There's a lot of, I don't know, social responsibility that was in your early work, and it continues to be. Were you aware of that or can I tell you?

[C]

I feel like on the one hand, I'm like, the answer I want to give you is, I'm so proud of that. I absolutely wanted to come in and say something with this precious medium called storytelling. And, you know, another part of me is like, man, I don't have to carry any of that.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I completely relate with this.

[C]

You know what I'm saying? You can relate as well, like from what you were saying as a kind of vocal advocate for same sex marriage and kind of becoming an icon in that conversation. I mean, actually, I would love to hear from you a little bit about how do you think about that, because.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, I. That's absolutely 100% exactly on the nose. I mean, I felt a responsibility from the community when I was given a role like the one I had on Modern Family to get it right and to do it with care and precision. And I'm in a place where I am as an actor being given a role where I'm attracted to the messiness of that character. I'm attracted to their flaws.

[A]

That's what makes it interesting.

[B]

And honestly, that's what makes the audience interested in watching me. No one wants to see perfect people. No one wants a sitcom or a movie where it's like, everything just happens, you know, neatly. And yet, because there is. I've been. I felt like, you know, at least in the first few seasons, about our family being put on a pedestal in a way as far as, like, okay, this is a gay couple that's on network television on a.

[C]

On a huge.

[B]

On a huge show. Like, they. They better get this right. You know, things like, there was a storyline that, you know, I had. My character had a problem with pda, public displays of affection. And it's like, the gays were furious. Cause it's like, why are they not kissing? And like, it was more empowerful to show the story of, like, why is this character worried about showing public displays of affection with his partner? It's because of his past. It's because of his history. It's because of the trauma he had as a kid growing up and being gay and being teased by his sister. It's like all these things that made the story interesting and made it last for 11 years are the things that I was also being kind of criticized for.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And so it was tricky for me because I had to tune out that noise of a community wanting me to do it correctly and preciously, and, you know, my desire to do it with nuance and levels and layers and also poignancy. And I just felt like there was no way to please both camps.

[C]

First of all, you telling that story, I was like, are you sure you're not a Muslim guy from Wembley right now? Because you just copy and paste everything you said. I feel a responsibility to portray these characters with care for the community. And so. So many people have this. Have this cross to bear. And I do believe it's a gift and a curse at the same time.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I think the shift you're talking about there at the end is really powerful. Which is actually the most important thing to represent is yourself, authentically. And so I often think about it, like, and I was forced to think about and was privileged to think about representation and storytelling for a lot of my career. But the way I think about it now is I don't want to think about representing others. I want to think about presenting myself, you know, and if I can be present with myself and present myself, actually, that's much more liberating. That's actually embodying a sense of freedom rather than asking for it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Or lobbying for it.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Does that make sense? Absolutely Amazing. Thank you very much.

[B]

That looks great. Thank you. This doesn't look intimidating. I was expecting.

[C]

Do you know what gima is?

[D]

What?

[C]

Gima. Gima is mince. Right. This is chicken. Minced chicken. Hassan Minaj, the standup comedian, says to me, like, listen, his litmus test for whether people are real is, you're either Kimaruti or you ain't. So we're gonna find. We're gonna see, you know.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I think you're Kimar Roti.

[B]

I think I am.

[C]

I think you are.

[B]

This is incredible. No, I mean, you know, I think sometimes I have to constantly remind myself that I am a husband, I'm a father. Like, there's this huge, long list, and for me, I get very excited when the thing that seems most exciting to other people, which is the gay part, is lower down on the list and things precede that, you know, And I can't force what people think of me. But, like, for me, I have to. I try not to identify because for a while, I was identifying as like, I am a gay actor, I'm a gay actor. And I felt responsibility for that because I think I felt the pressure of.

[C]

That and to express pride in that when so many people have historically been forced to, you know, bury that.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[C]

I think it works in stages. You know, what I've often said is, like, you start off first with a stereotype and the caricature, these stages of representations. And then stage two is you kind of subvert that or you complicate it. Right. So story is about the character being gay or being Muslim or whatever, but we're gonna flip it on its head. It's not exactly what you expect. We're gonna humanize these portrayals. And then I think that next stage is like exactly what you're describing. It's not about that. It's effortlessly woven into the fabric of this character's truth. It makes them a three dimensional human being. They have this side to their identity, but it ain't about that. So, yeah, I think it works in those stages. But, yeah, I'm definitely excited by more than anything right now just thinking about that sense of freedom, that freedom to present yourself. And I think that's one of the most powerful things for people to witness. I think that can be inspiring in a different way.

[B]

Absolutely. I'm impressed with the work that you've been able to do. That feels very authentic, but also so wildly different in tone. I mean, if you look at the Road to Guantanamo and then Four Lions, the tone in those are completely different. And you get to play, you know, such different facets of yourself, but is also so deeply tied to, you know, heritage and in history.

[C]

Yeah. I think all of us are many things.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And I think that's the beautiful thing about what we get to do is we get to express that. We get to express those different sides of us. And so that kind of goes back to that, you know, that. That Guiding Light that I'm kind of trying to. That word. I'm trying to help define my choices in the way I'm living right now. That's that sense of freedom, you know, I mean, that's what. That's how Relay came about. It was like a very straightforward thing where, you know, we just had a kid and it was like, don't know if I'm. Take time out right now. Did you just have a kid? I did, yeah. Yeah. We were like. I was like, okay, do I want to take. Step away right now and do a movie? And I just showed it to my wife. I was like, look, what do you think? You know how it is. It's like the whole family's gotta be signed up on something. You move the family the whole thing. And she read it and she goes, yep, this bangs. I would watch this. And it's as simple as that sometimes.

[B]

And your wife's a novelist, right?

[C]

She is, yeah. So she is my. She is like my North Star. Creatively, she has great taste. And it kind of annoying sometimes because I feel like, why don't you ask for my opinion on what you're doing? She's like, yeah, I'm good. I got it. I'm good, I'm good. I'm like, maybe you could change the sentence to this. She's like, yeah, maybe, maybe. Yeah, yeah. But she. Yeah, she read the script and she's a tough audience. And she was like, I would watch this. Yeah, I loved it.

[B]

I thought it was great.

[C]

Yeah, I think it's a lot of fun. I think it's smart. It's that kind of classic edge of your seat, gripping kind of cat and mouse thriller.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, the story for people who don't know is it's. My character is a fixer, but he fixes something very specific.

[D]

Right.

[C]

If you're a whistleblower, if you work at a company and you realize your company is being corrupt and you want to alert the authorities, that doesn't always go so well for the whistleblower.

[B]

Yeah, right.

[C]

They can end up getting harassed. This moment of like, okay, am I going to go public or not? Can often be very tense because people get harassed. People can be put in prison. And so what my character does is he helps those people get out of that situation. If you suddenly decide, listen, you know what? I want a simple life. I want to give these papers back to the company. I want them to leave me alone. I just want to disappear. Can you get me a new identity? Help me live safely? That's what he does. So he's saving people's lives in this very specific situation.

[B]

Is this a real job that actually exists or is this.

[C]

Well, this is the thing. Like, we. I was like, okay, this is. This sounds implausible. And then I started talking to people and started talking to whistleblowers and started talking to lawyers and special advisors, as these law firms use to work with whistleblowers. And there are versions of this. You know, I wouldn't say there's necessarily someone exactly like my character that I've spoken to, but I'm sure they're out there. So, yeah, the Underbelly of this world was super fascinating. But there's a twist on it in our movie, which is that, you know, it's a classic thriller but with a twist. And the twist is that my character basically lives a version of my fantasy life, which is that he's off grid. He's not on his iPhone, he's not on his laptop, he's not on any of that. That's really what drew me to the role.

[D]

Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

[B]

But for the first, like, 45 minutes, you don't say a word.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And I was like, oh, is this gonna be performance without a dialogue?

[C]

This is my chaplain moment. Yeah. David, as a director, just made all these awesome decisions like that right.

[A]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away after the break. Riz shares the story of an on set Bond that's carried through multiple films, reflects on those back to back Oscar nominations, and tells me about a special film we're all gonna add to our cues immediately. Okay, be right back. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold turkey.

[B]

Always.

[A]

It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head. Smoke Master ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted. Thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care. Because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli Counter. Boar's Head. Committed to crafts since 1905, this episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. So my youngest son, Sully, is that very active age.

[B]

He's a toddler.

[A]

He doesn't walk. It's more like he launches. And a routine diaper change. He wriggled out of my grip, stood up mid change, and just you know, just walked away like a tiny little.

[B]

Boss with half his diaper still attached.

[A]

Having a baby who's always on the move is. Listen, it's a lot of fun, but.

[B]

It'S also a workout.

[A]

And when you've got a little mover, you need a diaper that actually moves with them. That's why we use Huggies little movers. They've got up to 100% leak proof fit and I love that. I can choose between the double grip strips or the new Huggy Fit360 waistband. Both options keep the diaper snug, secure and right where it should be, which.

[B]

Is over the little bum bum.

[A]

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[B]

Huggies.

[A]

We gotcha, baby. You know what doesn't belong in your epic summer plans? Getting burned by your old wireless bill. I'm in New York right now doing Shakespeare in the park mem lines, dodging rainstorms and trying to stay cool in every sense of the word. The last thing I want to deal with is an overpriced phone plan. That's why I've been looking at Mint Mobile. With Mint, you get the same coverage and speed you're used to, but for way less. And for a limited time, they're offering three months of unlimited premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. So while your friends are sweating over data, overages and surprise charges, you could be chilling financially. And literally all plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text on the nation's largest 5G network. You can keep your phone, your number and all your contacts this year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your three month unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a [e-mail] Jesse. That's mintmobile.com Jesse. Upfront payment of $45 required, equivalent to $15 a month limited time. New customer offer for first three months only. Speeds may slow above 35 GB on unlimited plan. Taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[B]

The casting of the people who are the relay operators.

[C]

Oh my God. So good.

[B]

And because it's all these people who are just. They're like normal people and they're all.

[C]

They're like kick ass New York theater actors. Yeah, they just came in slam dunked it and just dropped the money because.

[B]

They'Re delivering really important, tense information, life or death information at times, and yet they're just like. It's almost like this is just their 9 to 5 job.

[C]

Leave the money in a briefcase.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

Do not contact my client or else we will alert the authorities.

[B]

Yeah, it's just people doing their job. It is. It's like a temp job for them almost.

[A]

It's so great.

[C]

Isn't that the coolest twist? You don't see that.

[B]

I love that. And every time you're talking with Lily James, you know, you're having this conversation through a different person. So it's like every time you communicate, it's through the voices of another person. And yet there's this continuation of the same conversation. It's really fascinating.

[C]

Yeah, it's a super cool concept that kind of just adds a fresh twist to that kind of classic. Yeah, Cat and mouse, twisty thriller, you know, and. And, yeah, it's always. It's always very telling, I think, you.

[B]

Know, wouldn't have been amazing if, like, they just, like, got crazy cameos like, Like, I. I'm trying to think.

[C]

You just.

[B]

You're just in there, for example.

[C]

You're just in there reading the relay service. Truly think of a director's car over there. So we have.

[D]

Right.

[B]

I mean, listen, I think we could get some great people. You were talking a little bit about just being, you know, having worked with the deaf community. Of course, that was on the Sound of Metal, which was so incredible. I love that movie so much. When I have to do research for something, I get really excited, but also I get overwhelmed. And I'm like, I'm always happy when I'm actually doing the research. But the thought of, like, standing at the bottom of the hill, of having to learn something is the scariest thing. And you had to do two hills. You had to learn how to drum. I don't know how much of a drummer you were before.

[C]

Zero.

[B]

Yeah. Zero. Okay. There you go. And also learn American Sign Language, which I don't know how much you knew of that before. Zero, maybe.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And also, I should say, you know, you're also sort of holding the responsibility. Your character is a heroin addict. Right. You're also holding the responsibility of that community, too, which I think, you know, is a lot to tell the story of someone who's struggling with addiction. I mean, the process of putting that film together must have been harrowing.

[C]

Yeah, it was very daunting being at the bottom of the hill. Yeah, Very, very daunting. I think, like, the deal you make is this. It's like the downside is you're gonna lose your life. Life for a year.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

This was also before you were married.

[C]

It was exactly. So you can actually commit in a very different way. But this was like, yeah, you lose your life, but the. But you get a new one. And so my life for that year was get up, just do my American Sign Language sessions with my amazing teacher, Jeremy Stone, jls for a couple of hours, then go and interview and spend time with people from within that music scene. Spend some time with them in the studio and that kind of thing. Then go practice the drums for a couple of hours and then go to meetings, NA and AAA meetings. And that was. You know, when you lay it out like that, it's kind of like, man, that's intense. And it was. But it was also. It was such a privilege.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I always feel like at a certain point in research, I feel like I'm. It's daunting, right? When you're at the bottom of the hill, it's daunting because it's about you and your failure and whether you're gonna screw this up and can you do it. And I feel like one of the amazing things about research isn't even so much the stuff you learn, but the people you meet, because it allows you to shift focus and go, I'm doing this for you, man.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

I hope that doesn't sound pretentious, but I guess what I mean is, like, I'm not doing it for you. Like, hey, superhero, out here with my cape. But I just feel like this is your. This is your experience, you know? Like, I want you to see this and feel seen. I want you to see this and feel a little bit healed and also.

[B]

Proud of the work that they helped you learn and put into you.

[C]

Yeah, it's kind of. On some level, it's that I was speaking with Sir Patrick Stewart, the legendary Patrick Stewart, who just did a.

[A]

I.

[B]

Don'T know who you're talking about.

[C]

It was. I mean, I was just trying hard not to just turn it into a Q and A session, you know, And I'm working with the guy that. But I asked him, and he goes, you know, I always feel like the thing that's unlocked things for me is that I've always felt like I'm doing this for my teachers. It's like, what an amazing way to like, de. Center yourself.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And so, yeah, meeting those people, particularly, like, with the deaf community you know, learning not just sign language, but learning a different way of being. Jeremy, my sign instructor, told me. He said, you know, we think deaf people think of hearing people as emotionally repressed. I was like, why is that? He goes, because you guys hide behind words. He goes, when we communicate, we communicate with our whole body. You can't hide in the same way. Yeah, sure, you can lie or whatever, but I remember the first time I started really being able to express myself with ASL and really getting into deep conversations with Jeremy. I'll find myself just tearing up in a different way. I was like, what is happening? But what was amazing was Jeremy and some of the deaf community in New York were part of this project as well. Were part of Relay.

[B]

Oh, were you able to bring them in?

[C]

Yes, absolutely.

[B]

Because, you know, that makes me so happy. You meet those people in your career.

[C]

And you know what it's like, what you were saying? It's like, yes, we did the movie where it's about being deaf.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Now let's get some of that into the movie where it's not about that.

[B]

Yes, that's great.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So they're. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So we have that. Because my character is, you know, a man of few words, we kind of realize actually maybe his. Maybe his best. Best friend is a deaf guy. Maybe, actually he's most comfortable talking to his childhood deaf friend in asl.

[B]

So it's such a privilege to be able to bring people along that you have connection with. I mean, you kind of did it brilliantly with your. With your album the Long Goodbye. I mean, you had these voice memos between the songs, and you have all these incredible people I'm sure you have history and friendships with. And it's obviously very. It's an album that is very. You have such ownership of it. When I think of that album, I think of you also, because there's a visual element that, you know, you won an Oscar for. But, you know, it's great that you also gotta bring along these people who I have greatly admired. And it just feels like a. It feels like a sense of community came together to create the Longaby.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

No, which is really, really wonderful. And I hope you're so proud of that.

[C]

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's a weird one because, you know, that album got born out of a feeling of despair.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it was born out of a feeling of, like, man, the world is in such a crazy place. So many of us feel almost unwanted in our own countries. If you look at what's happening in America right now. You know, so many people that are the lifeblood of the American economy and the foundation stone of American society are now being told they're not welcome or being disappeared or all of this kind of stuff. And it was a similar feeling here. You know, people that lived here their whole lives were being told, actually, you don't have a British passport. You don't have a chance to stay here. We can take your passport away. You know, and that was really painful. And then I started looking at kind of South Asian kind of love poetry, you know, poets like Khaleb and Rumi and Persian poetry and stuff like that. And I realized there's such a rich tradition of, like, heartbreak poetry, of, like, oh, I'm not. I've been separated from my beloved. I feel like I don't have a home anymore. I feel like I've been cast into the shadows by the thing that I'd invested so much of my heart into. And so I think a lot of people were feeling, you know, about. About their country. I think a lot of people around the world have been feeling like that, from India to the Philippines.

[B]

I feel that way about America right now.

[C]

Right, right. It's not just America. It's not just the uk. It's not just Italy. It's like, so many people around the world, we're living a time of change. Felt like, man, am I being dumped by my country? Yes.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

Or. Or actually, should I break up? We might. You know, so many people feeling that. And so through that kind of poetry, through that poetic tradition, I was able to find a creative way of processing that. That feeling. And so the album is a breakup album with. With Britain. You know, the first line is, britain's broken up with me. So, yeah, no, it was. It was. It was special doing that. And then, of course, the short film with Anil was.

[A]

Did those go side by side?

[B]

Did you always know that there was gonna be a short film to go with it?

[C]

Not at all. Not at all. Speaking of community, there's both the director, Anil Karia, and myself. We have a mutual friend called Jan DeManche, who's British director, TV and film director. And he put me and Anil together and said, you guys should just sit down. You guys should just meet. You should talk. And from that, we just started talking and talking. I was like, well, you know, I'm kind of. I'm in the middle of recording an album about this stuff, which is maybe where my head is at. Okay, you will keep me posted about that. And what about this and, and just over a series of conversations like this, you know, we came up with this idea. And Anil is such a gifted director. I think what he does is he can take an everyday situation and turn it up to 11, you know, in a way that just. It doesn't lose its sense of reality.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And so, yeah, that was the thing about the film.

[B]

It's like, you know, you're take. You're feeling very Safe for about seven minutes, and it's an 11 minute film and then things happen. And then the last three minutes is this incredible one shot of you doing a soliloquy, basically, which is.

[C]

It's like a spoken word poem.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

From the album. And it's just. It's incredibly impactful.

[C]

Oh, thank you, man.

[B]

I encourage anyone who hasn't seen it to take the 11 minutes that you know you have and watch it.

[D]

It's.

[B]

It's. It's really powerful. This is a weird question. I'm not sure how to ask it, but like, how dare you? How dare you? How ding dong dare you flip this table?

[A]

The year before, you were nominated for.

[B]

An Oscar for Best Actor for the Sound of Metal. And I don't know if you know this, you didn't win.

[C]

What?

[B]

You did not win.

[D]

What?

[B]

But wait, the next year.

[C]

Did I not win?

[B]

You didn't win? No, no, no, no. The next year you win for this short film. I mean, it's kind of crazy the way the universe works, because, you know, when you're nominated for Best Actor for the Oscars, I mean, it's like, okay.

[A]

Well, this is the shot. And then like the next year, 12 months later, you're being given an award for this other thing way over here.

[B]

It's just weird. It's crazy. It's like the universe is being like, yeah, I got you. Like, I'm gonna. Don't worry. Not that thing.

[C]

But this thing is so interesting, isn't it? Do you kind of feel like the universe gives you signs and, like. Because the thing that I took from that is like, wow, I need to lean more into making my own stuff as well.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And. And I have since then, you know, since then I've. You know, we just. Just me and Anil, the director of the Long Goodbye, we made Hamlet and we made a movie. Yeah, we made a movie of Hamlet. It's not out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This is a very exciting.

[C]

But it was partly inspired by executives. Hamlet. Yeah.

[B]

Shut the front door to the shoom. What? That's so exciting. Just to be clear, this is not a short version of Hamlet. This is a.

[C]

No, this is a feature.

[B]

I love. I love that you're like, we're gonna go from this 11 minute film to Hamlet. That's fucking awesome.

[C]

Yeah. I don't know. I kind of felt like after the long goodbye, the message I felt I was getting from the universe was like, lean into your insanity, man. Lean into the thing you know you want to do. Do the thing that makes you feel alive. Do the thing that is a risk, that feels bold and like, who knows? And you know what? Sometimes I've done stuff like that and no one has seen it, and sometimes I've done stuff like that, and it's ended up, you know, being seen by a lot of people and getting awarded and all this stuff. So it's like you don't control. I'm sure you. You can relate to this. You don't control how well something does, quote unquote. But the ideal situation is, no matter how well or how badly it does, you can stand by your decision of doing it.

[B]

Wow. I'm definitely keeping my eye out for that. Seem really.

[C]

Thanks, man.

[B]

Really incredible.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

Will you tell me a little bit about Joyland?

[C]

Joyland, yes. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

So I don't know too much about it.

[C]

Do not. You should definitely watch Joyland.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

It's such a good movie. So I have a production company, it's called Left Handed. And, you know, our big thing was like, we want to tell stories on being told. And so we. We got this project from this amazing Pakistani writer, director called Saim Sadiq, and he made this film called Joyland. And it's a love story between a man and a transgender woman in Pakistan. And, you know, Pakistan is a conservative, religious, Muslim country. And so this kind of relationship and this kind of story, you know, it was a bit controversial, and the film was actually banned in Pakistan, but it was the first Pakistani film to go to the Cannes Film Festival. It won the Queer Palm, it won Uncertain Regard prize, and then it won the Independent Spirit award for Best International feature. But here's the thing is like. Here's the thing that complicates the narrative. The transgender community is so visible in Pakistan, and it has been for so long now. It's not. That's not to say that it's a community that doesn't face massive challenges, social marginalization. Often people are left with little choice but to do sex work and stuff like that. There's lots of kind of perilous things that come with that terrain and holding that identity in Pakistan. But it is a recognized part of the culture and the society, and it has been for a very long time.

[B]

You know, Pakistan is longer than we might assume.

[C]

I mean, longer than here.

[D]

Wow.

[C]

By a very long way. You know, they're transgender newsreaders in Pakistan.

[D]

Oh, wow.

[C]

Being non binary is a recognized gender identity. You can hold on your ID card and your documents in Pakistan, actually, there's a kind of, like, according to, like, folklore and some of the kind of mythology, in a way, is kind of messed up because it's kind of like exoticizing and mythologizing what is like a very naturally occurring, like, you know, human phenomenon. But there's. There's this belief that the prayers of non binary people and transgender people are more powerful.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Because God kind of owes them. Right. And so you do not piss off a transgender person in Pakistan. So there's this kind of very particular style for people who, again, due to the social marginalization, end up kind of having to do street work or begging, where they don't come up to you and go, like, please, can I have a dollar? They come up to you and go, hey, fucking pay up. And people are like, oh, wait a minute. Let me get my wallet. Let me get my wallet. And they're like, pay up right now, bitch. And it's that kind of energy which is so fascinating. What a complicated, like, power dynamic. And you do it, and you give them $10 and they go. They go, yeah, may you always have good health and may your kids blossom.

[D]

Right?

[C]

And it's that. And so because of that, the Pakistani government started doing this crazy thing where they said, man, not enough of our population businesses pay their taxes. Our tax collectors should be transgender. So they started this promotion program of trying to get transgender people out of some of these more marginalized industries in sex work and train them up as tax collectors. Like, the world is so much more complicated and rich and unexpected than you know. And those are the stories we want to tell. You gotta watch Joyland. It's an absolute banger of a movie. It shows you a world you don't know about, and it's just a beautiful love story. And so, yeah, those are the kind of stories.

[B]

What if someone's like, no, I've seen the trans tax collector story before. It's a trope that's been done.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Listen, tell me something new. That's incredible. I cannot wait to watch that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It's a vibe.

[B]

What a cool. Aren't you so excited when stuff like that comes to you and you're like.

[A]

Oh, I Get to create that.

[C]

I mean, I. No, I mean, it's not about me being. I'm not the creator.

[B]

Help get it made.

[C]

Tell you something. It's almost more pleasurable not being the creator.

[B]

I know. I'm starting to.

[C]

Because it's less pressure.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And actually, you kind of. You know, sometimes when you make something you're all up in your feelings about, like. Yeah, but this moment should have been like that and this scene. But when you just. When you're just a cheerleader, when you're just a supporter for something, you're like, this is beautiful. And you can.

[B]

You can shout about it without energy coming in. Yeah. You know?

[C]

Yeah. And also, it's like, imagine how arrogant it would be if I'm sat around and going, my film's amazing. You don't gonna do that.

[B]

Not everyone's like that, but someone else's.

[C]

You're like, you have to watch this. It's so good.

[B]

Can I ask how. What fatherhood's been and if that's changed, Like. All right, I know it's changed a lot. Like, how is.

[C]

Totally. It's weird. You know, I think in the beginning, it was. It was a big adjustment.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

You know, it was a massive adjustment. And there's a loss as well. Right. You lose your independence and you lose the idea of you as an individual.

[D]

Right.

[C]

Because it's. You become part. But then what you gain is you become part of a greater whole.

[D]

Right.

[C]

And you're in service of something that's bigger than. And other than yourself, which is the core of spirituality, which is the. Which is the core of all purpose in life.

[D]

Right.

[C]

It's like, if you can be in service of something, if you can be part of something, that's not just your own ego.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I got here today and I was like, what is in my pocket?

[A]

And I have my son's socks that.

[B]

I forgot to put on his. I was getting him dressed and I was. Yeah, he's 21. No, but I. There's something so sweet about, like, I.

[A]

Was like, what is going on here?

[B]

But, like, those are the moments where I actually. I. Those moments make my shoulders go down. Like, I was so excited to sit down and talk with you, but, you know, I'm nervous. I want it to go well. I want to make sure you're having a good time. I want to.

[D]

To.

[B]

You know, I have two shows to do today. I want to make sure that I have a good meal. Like. And then. And then I found these. His socks. I was just like, oh, yeah. Like, that's. That's.

[C]

What does it make you think?

[D]

What.

[C]

What is it?

[B]

It reminds me that all of this is in service of that.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

And it tightened my heart in a way that I wasn't expecting.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

That's so beautiful, man. Yeah. Just those moments where you get that sense of. Of perspective.

[D]

Right.

[B]

Thank you so much for doing this.

[C]

Thank you. I love this chat. I love the Munch. This is easily the most chill, fun, normal, human podcast I've ever done.

[B]

I'm so glad.

[C]

Yeah, man.

[A]

This episode of Dinners On Me was recorded at Deschume on Portobello Road in Notting Hill, London. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know her from iconic films like the English Patient, the Apple TV series, Slow Horses, and now from her new dramedy and directorial debut, My Mother's Wedding, it's Kristen Scott Thomas. We dive into her first time directing, what she learned from actor directors like Robert Redford. And I might ask her about that kiss with Prince.

[B]

And if you don't want to wait.

[A]

Until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Charlie Morell with production support from Leaf Troop. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode, Hansdale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, boar's Head Oven Gold turkey. Always. It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of boar's head smoke Master Ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow, smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese Sharp Cheddar. If I'm feeling bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon. Crispy crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two. You know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted. Thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care, because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905.