Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Guest: Riz Ahmed — On Prepping for ‘Sound of Metal,’ and How His Wife Led Him to ‘RELAY’

Released: August 19, 2025

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and lively breakfast episode, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson welcomes acclaimed actor, rapper, and activist Riz Ahmed for a meal at Deschume on Portobello Road, London. The conversation delves into the intersection of identity, artistry, and social change—covering Riz’s career, prepping for transformative roles like 'Sound of Metal', the creative origins of his new film ‘Relay’, struggles and responsibilities with representation, fatherhood, and the power of authentic storytelling. Throughout, both men reflect candidly on personal growth, vulnerability, and the unexpected connections between their creative and private lives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Differences Between British and American Acting Approaches

[06:08]

• Riz highlights that British actors tend to see themselves more as craftspeople, focusing on not taking themselves too seriously and viewing acting as a job.

• Jesse compares this to the American method of acting, where actors often bring their whole heart and soul, sometimes at personal cost.

  • Quote (Riz Ahmed, 06:08):
    “The British thing is like, don’t take yourself too seriously… In the American point of view, because of all that history and the method, it’s more like you bring your whole heart and soul to it.”

• They share personal anecdotes about burnout and learning to be more economical with their craft, especially after becoming parents.

Managing Emotional Spillover from Roles

[08:43]

• Riz describes the physical and psychological toll of inhabiting difficult roles, recounting how ‘The Night Of’ left him with hives and sleepless nights.

  • Quote (Riz, 08:43):
    “Your body doesn’t know it’s acting. So you go home, you are stressed, you are tense, you might not have restful sleep. When I was doing ‘The Night Of’, I broke out in hives.”

• He discusses shifting from perfectionism to accepting that the most authentic work flows through him, rather than being willed.

Art Imitating Life: Roles Finding the Actor

[09:41]

• Jesse and Riz reflect on how sometimes, unknowingly, their roles mirror circumstances in their real lives.

  • Quote (Riz, 10:11):
    “The role that you need in your life kind of finds you at that time.”

• Jesse connects this to his journey as a gay actor on ‘Modern Family’ and in advocacy for marriage equality.

The Three Stages of Representation in Media

[22:42]

• Riz lays out his framework for how minority characters evolve on screen:

  1. Stereotype/caricature
  2. Subversion/humanization
  3. Seamless representation, where identity is “effortlessly woven” into the character
  • Quote (Riz, 22:42):
    “You start off first with a stereotype… then you subvert that or you complicate it. The next stage is… it’s not about that. It’s effortlessly woven into the character’s truth.”

• Both agree the ultimate goal is presenting themselves authentically, rather than representing an entire community.

On ‘Relay’ – Origin Story & Creative Choices

[24:16, 25:07, 26:34]

• The inception of ‘Relay’ is revealed: Riz’s wife, novelist Fatima Farheen Mirza, read the script and greenlit his participation, serving as his “North Star.”

  • Quote (Riz, 25:09):
    “She is like my North Star. Creatively, she has great taste… She read the script and she’s a tough audience. She was like, I would watch this.”

• In the film, Riz plays a fixer helping whistleblowers disappear, inspired by real but secretive legal advisors.

• Riz’s character is strikingly off-the-grid—a fantasy life for him, rarely uttering a word for the first 45 minutes—a creative decision he relished.

Casting and Communication Styles in ‘Relay’

[31:59, 32:39]

• The relay operators are real New York theater actors delivering tense, pivotal information deadpan—adding a fresh, low-key layer to the thriller.

  • Quote (Jesse, 32:31):
    “It’s just people doing their job. It is—it’s like a temp job for them almost.”

• Unique directorial choices, like dialogue relayed through a series of different voices, create a “cat-and-mouse” suspense.

The Rigors of Prepping for ‘Sound of Metal’

[33:30–36:00]

• Riz recounts starting from scratch with drumming, American Sign Language, and immersing himself in addiction support communities.

  • Quote (Riz, 34:13):
    “My life for that year was: get up, do my ASL sessions… go practice drums… go to meetings—NA, AA. When you lay it out like that, it’s kind of like, man, that’s intense. And it was.”

• He emphasizes the privilege of research and human connection, shifting from self-focus to service for the communities he represents.

Deep Lessons from the Deaf Community

[36:49]

• Learning sign language revealed to Riz a new emotional openness. Deaf friends describe hearing people as emotionally repressed, since signers must employ full physical expression.

  • Quote (Riz, 36:49):
    “We think deaf people think of hearing people as emotionally repressed… When we communicate, we communicate with our whole body.”

• Several deaf friends from ‘Sound of Metal’ also worked on ‘Relay’, carrying community and inclusion from one project to the next.

Creating ‘The Long Goodbye’ — Processing Cultural Exile

[39:09–41:23]

• The album and Oscar-winning short film were born from a sense of alienation as a British Pakistani, inspired by Rumi and classical heartbreak poetry. Riz reframed diaspora heartbreak through music and visual storytelling.

  • Quote (Riz, 40:51):
    “Through that poetic tradition, I was able to find a creative way of processing that feeling. And so the album is a breakup album with Britain. You know, the first line is, Britain’s broken up with me.”

• Collaborator Anil Karia was connected through mutual friends, and their creative process was organic and conversation-driven.

Career Wins, Losses, and Making Your Own Work

[43:03–45:24]

• Jesse jokes about Riz losing the Oscar for ‘Sound of Metal’ but winning the next year for ‘The Long Goodbye.’ Riz sees it as a sign to lean into creating his own projects.

  • Quote (Riz, 44:40):
    “After ‘The Long Goodbye,’ the message I felt from the universe was: lean into your insanity… do the thing that is a risk, that feels bold and like, who knows?”

• Riz teases a feature film adaptation of ‘Hamlet’ directed by Anil Karia, inspired by this mindset.

Producing ‘Joyland’ — Celebrating Complex Trans Stories from Pakistan

[45:29–49:43]

• Riz passionately recommends ‘Joyland,’ a prize-winning love story between a man and a transgender woman in Pakistan, produced by his company Left Handed. He describes the often-misunderstood but longstanding place of trans and nonbinary communities in Pakistan.

  • Quote (Riz, 47:24):
    “Being nonbinary is a recognized gender identity you can hold on your ID card... It’s not to say that it’s a community that doesn’t face massive challenges… But it is a recognized part of the culture and the society, and it has been for a very long time.”

• Both marvel at the rich, surprising stories often hidden from Western conversation.

Fatherhood and Shifting Perspectives

[50:39–52:25]

• Jesse and Riz reflect on how becoming fathers dissolved old identities and brought a sense of service and spiritual wholeness.

  • Quote (Riz, 51:13):
    “But then what you gain is you become part of a greater whole, and you’re in service of something that’s bigger than, and other than, yourself… which is the core of spirituality, the core of all purpose.”

• Jesse shares a touching “kid’s socks in my pocket” story, grounding big achievements in everyday joys.

Candid Finale

[52:30]

• Riz praises the atmosphere and conversation:
  • Quote (Riz, 52:30):
    “This is easily the most chill, fun, normal, human podcast I’ve ever done.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Roles Echoing Personal Life:

  • “The role you need in your life finds you.” — Riz Ahmed [10:11]

• On Moving Past Stereotype:

  • “It’s not about that—it’s effortlessly woven into the fabric of this character’s truth.” — Riz Ahmed [22:42]

• On Community and Artistic Service:

  • “I want you to see this and feel seen. I want you to see this and feel a little bit healed.” — Riz Ahmed [35:56]

• On Fatherhood:

  • “You’re in service of something bigger than yourself, which is the core of all purpose.” — Riz Ahmed [51:13]

• On Creative Freedom:

  • “Lean into your insanity, man—do the thing that makes you feel alive.” — Riz Ahmed [44:40]

Key Timestamps

• [06:08] British vs. American acting philosophies
• [08:43] Letting go of roles and self-critique
• [10:11] Roles mirroring real life
• [22:42] The three stages of representation
• [24:16] ‘Relay’ origin story and wife’s creative influence
• [25:09] Riz on his wife as his creative North Star
• [26:34] Real-world fixers and thrillers
• [33:30–36:00] Prepping for ‘Sound of Metal’: drums, ASL, addiction
• [36:49] Lessons from the deaf community
• [39:09–41:23] Making ‘The Long Goodbye’ and insights on belonging
• [44:40] The universe, Oscar wins, and self-made opportunities
• [45:29–49:43] ‘Joyland’ and telling unseen stories
• [50:39] The impact and perspective-shift of fatherhood
• [52:30] Riz on the podcast experience

Tone & Atmosphere

• Warm, candid, and intimate—with a sense of vulnerability, humor, and mutual respect.
• Moments of laughter and self-deprecating jokes (Jesse’s nerves, the “spicy” chicken keema, the “kid’s socks” revelation).
• The conversation weaves between serious reflections on identity and lighthearted quips about acting, food, and fatherhood.
• The chemistry between Jesse and Riz enables openness and layered discussion, fitting the “breaking bread” premise.

For Listeners:

If you’re interested in nuanced perspectives on representation, the challenges and joys of transformative acting, the evolution of fatherhood, or want to hear about global queer cinema, this episode offers both food for thought and genuine laughs. You’ll leave inspired to check out ‘Relay’, ‘Joyland’, and 'The Long Goodbye', and perhaps to reflect on your own creative and personal journey.

[End of Summary]