Rory Kinnear – on Judi Dench, ‘Lord of the Rings,’ and the father he still misses

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson Episode: Rory Kinnear – on Judi Dench, ‘Lord of the Rings,’ and the Father He Still Misses Release Date: July 22, 2025

In this heartfelt and insightful episode of Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with acclaimed British actor Rory Kinnear to explore his illustrious career, deep connections within the theater community, and the profound impact of his late father. Recorded at Lasdun at the National Theatre in London's South Bank, the conversation seamlessly blends personal anecdotes with professional insights, offering listeners a comprehensive look into Rory's life both on and off the stage.

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Setting the Scene: A Culinary and Conversational Journey

The episode opens with Jesse and Rory enjoying a meal at Lasdun, a modern British restaurant situated within the historic National Theatre. The setting provides a comfortable backdrop for Rory to share his experiences and memories associated with the theater and his career.

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Rory Kinnear’s Journey with the National Theatre

Rory delves into his long-standing relationship with the National Theatre, emphasizing its significance in his career development. He recounts his first audition experience at the age of 29, discussing the initial uncertainties and eventual opportunities that led him to starring roles.

Rory Kinnear (07:20): "It was all I wanted to do. My only ambition as an actor was to work here."

He highlights the camaraderie among actors, describing how strong personalities come together to create a cohesive ensemble. This environment, Rory explains, has been instrumental in his growth as a versatile actor.

Rory Kinnear (05:30): "It's also the best thing to do, I think, as an actor to be in an ensemble, to not feel like people are coming to see you or that you have to carry something or that the focus is on you."

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The Legacy of Rory’s Father

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Rory's father, a prolific character actor whose legacy continues to influence Rory both personally and professionally. Rory shares touching memories and the lasting impact his father's work has had on him and his family.

Rory Kinnear (20:38): "You can't. If you've loved something so much you can't then say you can't, you shouldn't do it."

He reflects on the importance of preserving his father's memory, illustrating this through stories of family gatherings and the joy his father's performances brought to subsequent generations.

Rory Kinnear (25:50): "I'm very aware of how lucky I was and am to have that."

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Personal Reflections: Grief and Legacy

Rory opens up about his recent loss of his mother and the grief process he is navigating. He draws parallels between his father's legacy and his mother's dedication to advocacy, highlighting the resilience and strength passed down through his family.

Rory Kinnear (21:40): "Every time it's told here, I just keep fighting. That's what my mum's, as most parents of a disabled kid find they have to do. It's just fight, fight, fight."

He also shares how his family's experiences have shaped his approach to life and career, emphasizing the importance of legacy and the lasting impact of loved ones.

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Acting Roles and Cultural Impact

Rory discusses his involvement in various high-profile projects, including his role in the Lord of the Rings prequel series, The Rings of Power. He explains his portrayal of Tom Bombadil, a beloved character from Tolkien's lore, and the excitement surrounding this casting choice.

Rory Kinnear (39:10): "He is sort of whimsical and wise and in touch with the earth and sort of as one with nature."

The conversation delves into the meticulous nature of acting in such a protected and revered franchise, highlighting the challenges and rewards of bringing a cherished character to life.

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Balancing Family and Career

A significant theme in the episode is Rory's dedication to balancing his demanding career with his family life. He shares insights into his parenting philosophy, emphasizing the importance of setting a positive example for his children by pursuing passions and maintaining strong family bonds.

Rory Kinnear (45:43): "It's important that they see, like, you know, you doing the things that make you happy."

Rory also touches on the challenges of being away from his family due to work commitments, illustrating the emotional strain and the strategies he employs to stay connected.

Rory Kinnear (46:01): "I feel deeply that I can't believe a day has gone by in my kids' lives that I have not been able to be a part of it in a physical, meaningful, present way."

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Connection with Dame Judi Dench

Rory speaks fondly of Dame Judi Dench, a close family friend and a towering figure in British theater and film. Their professional collaborations and personal interactions underscore the deep respect and affection that both actors hold for each other.

Rory Kinnear (35:08): "When I first started doing those films, most of my time was just spent with her. And she's just as good fun as she is."

He recounts memorable moments, such as Rory's encounters with Judi at award ceremonies, highlighting her warmth and generosity.

Rory Kinnear (36:16): "She sends me a bottle of wine on my birthday. She sends a rose to my mom on the anniversary of their wedding anniversary. I mean, she's just one of those great people."

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Behind the Scenes: Theatre Traditions and Stories

Rory shares fascinating stories about the National Theatre's traditions, including the unique practice of actors banging on windows during previews and opening nights. He reminisces about the 50th anniversary celebration, recalling prominent figures like Judi Dench and Ian McKellen participating in the cherished ritual.

Rory Kinnear (11:31): "There was a 50th anniversary celebration of the building... and there was, you know, Judi Dench popping out the window. There was Ian McKellen... it was just so special."

These anecdotes provide listeners with an intimate glimpse into the close-knit and storied environment of the National Theatre.

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Looking Ahead: Future Projects and Personal Aspirations

As the episode nears its conclusion, Rory discusses upcoming projects and his aspirations within the acting world. He expresses enthusiasm for future collaborations and his continuous journey of self-discovery through diverse roles.

Rory Kinnear (40:56): "I'm just going to enjoy acting the part because I like acting."

He also touches on his personal life, sharing endearing stories about his relationship with his partner Pandora and their shared journey in both personal and professional realms.

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Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers a rich tapestry of Rory Kinnear's life, weaving together professional achievements, personal loss, family legacy, and heartfelt relationships. Through candid conversations and memorable anecdotes, Rory provides listeners with a deep understanding of the man behind the acclaimed performances, highlighting the intersections between his personal experiences and his craft.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Rory Kinnear (07:20): "It was all I wanted to do. My only ambition as an actor was to work here."
• Rory Kinnear (05:30): "It's also the best thing to do, I think, as an actor to be in an ensemble, to not feel like people are coming to see you or that you have to carry something or that the focus is on you."
• Rory Kinnear (20:38): "You can't. If you've loved something so much you can't then say you can't, you shouldn't do it."
• Rory Kinnear (21:40): "Every time it's told here, I just keep fighting. That's what my mum's, as most parents of a disabled kid find they have to do. It's just fight, fight, fight."
• Rory Kinnear (39:10): "He is sort of whimsical and wise and in touch with the earth and sort of as one with nature."
• Rory Kinnear (45:43): "It's important that they see, like, you know, you doing the things that make you happy."
• Rory Kinnear (35:08): "When I first started doing those films, most of my time was just spent with her. And she's just as good fun as she is."
• Rory Kinnear (11:31): "There was a 50th anniversary celebration of the building... and there was, you know, Judi Dench popping out the window. There was Ian McKellen... it was just so special."

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This episode masterfully balances Rory's professional insights with his personal stories, creating a compelling narrative that resonates with listeners. From discussing the nuances of renowned theatrical traditions to reflecting on deep personal losses, Rory Kinnear brings authenticity and warmth to the conversation, making this installment a must-listen for fans and newcomers alike.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London.

[Rory Kinnear]

Right at the moment, which is why.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So many of my episodes have people with British accents right now.

[Rory Kinnear]

It's amazing here. I love it. And until I need directions or restaurant recs or anything.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I've got no WI fi and.

[Rory Kinnear]

Sky high roaming fees, which is just. It's not cute.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's why I started using Saily. Saily is an easy to use ESIM app created by the folks behind NordVPN.

[Rory Kinnear]

It gives you instant mobile data in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Over 190 countries, and you only have to install it once. That means I didn't have to line up at the airport for a SIM card, get scammed outside the train station.

[Rory Kinnear]

Or keep hunting for public wi fi signals like it's a rare Pokemon.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Seriously, I sat outside of Wagamama the other day trying to get onto their wi fi for probably 20 minutes. I just opened the app, picked a regional plan, and boom. I had reliable Internet from Italy to Greece without switching a thing. Plus, Saily offers private features and 24. 7 support, which makes me feel a whole lot more secure out here. Get 15 off your saly plan with the code dinners on me. Just download the Saly app or head to saily.com dinnersonme S A I L-Y.com dinnersonme Stay connected and don't miss your dinner reservation. Okay, let's be honest.

[Rory Kinnear]

Staying hydrated is the only thing keeping.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Me from turning into a raisin these days.

[Rory Kinnear]

That's why Fiji Water is always close by.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rory Kinnear]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rory Kinnear]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rory Kinnear]

And that soft, smooth taste that I absolutely love. Unlike some other top premium bottled water.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Brands, Fiji's water electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. And Fiji's water has a perfect balanced 7.7 pH.

[Rory Kinnear]

I have no idea what that means, but I like the word perfect score. Okay? And since 2022, Fiji's water's 330 and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

500 milliliter bottles have been made with 100% recycled plastic. So whether I'm backstage at home with.

[Rory Kinnear]

The kids or planning our podcast recording.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know I'm hydrating the earth's finest way. Fiji Water. It's Earth's finest water. Hi, it's Jesse.

[Rory Kinnear]

Today on the show. You know him from Bond films like Quantum of Solace and no Time to Die from the TV show the Diplomat and say Nothing. He's also one of my co stars. And here we are, that I'm doing right here at the National. It's Rory Kinnear. You were the first Nepo baby.

I think there were some before.

No, I think you were the very first one.

Edward ii.

This is Dinner's on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. When I started rehearsal for Here We Are at the National, I was so excited to meet one of my favorite actors, Rory Kinnear. I have been admiring his work for so long and never in a million years did I think I would be able to act on stage with him. Opposite of him at the National Theater, a place where he really, I mean, developed his whole career. He has such a deep history with this building. I knew immediately when I knew I was bringing episodes of Dinners on me to the uk, I would have to have Rory on. And not only that, I would have to have him on in a restaurant here at the National. Martha Plimpton and I ate at Forza a few episodes ago and now I'm with Rory Kinnear at Lasdun, their slightly fancier restaurant. Martha Plimpton's not mad about that at all. That I'm bringing Rory here, not her. It's a modern British restaurant from the the team behind the beloved gastropub the Marksman Public House. It serves elegant brasserie style food inspired by seasonal and locally sourced ingredients. Fun fact, the National Theater actually raises bees on top of this building which make the honey for the honey tart at the restaurant. All right, let's get to the conversation. So we had a cast gathering last night.

We did.

So you're out until 1 in the morning, which is just so rare for you because I have literally gotten text messages from you when you're already at home, like relieving the babysitter. And I'm still leaving the building.

There are many benefits to working at Sir Denys Lasdun's National Theatre and chief amongst them for me is the fact that I live a 10 minute cycle away. So, yeah, the show finishes at 10 o'. Clock, five to 10. I'm usually out before the.

The orchestra finishes.

The orchestra finishes and I'm on a bike and I'm home by, you know, 10, 15 in bed.

That's my dream.

Well, yeah, it's been pretty consistent. It's not always been like that, but as one gets older, the priorities change.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm glad you stayed out. I'm shocked and surprised you were out until 1 in the morning.

I thought if I'm out, I might as well stay out. And they're a fun bunch because as well as there some strong personalities, they're all working in the.

Oh, we have incredibly strong personalities working.

Together in the same direction. It's also the best thing to do, I think, as an actor to be in an ensemble, to not feel like people are coming to see you or that you have to carry something or that the focus is on you.

And certainly when you play the Hamlet that's the case.

Well, it can feel that way sometimes.

Okay. The chance to look at them.

No, he's been talking, I've been chit chatting.

What are you doing? What are some of your popular dishes? We have to also. We have to be on stage in like three hours. So we don't like.

During which we'll be talking about food non stop.

We'll be talking about food non stop in our show. So we can't. I mean, you eat as much as you want, but I'm just.

Thank you. Thank you.

I have to think about his digestion. My digestion.

I. Please. I'm going to do the salt cod, potato and hen's egg to start with.

Okay, so you're starting with that. I'm gonna start with the asparagus. English asparagus. Is that the white asparagus?

No, green swan. It's the season asparagus season at the moment. I know.

I'm gonna do the roasted halibut. Thank you.

For you, I will do the Per Lies. I'm having the lamb, please.

The diamond contaminar.

He's done it. He's done it.

Any sides to go with your mains?

I think I'm right.

I might have buttered potatoes for the table. Perfect. So you have quite a history here. This is my first time ever working on the West End and this building that we're in, this incredible building, the National Theater. You have such a wildly rich history with this place.

Yeah. And that has been like a wild adventure in terms of. That's all I wanted to do. My dad was an actor and worked here when I was about 7 or 8. I started seeing stuff then here. I kept on coming through seeing Ian Charleston's Hamlet when he. When I was 12, which he was doing in the last few months of his life, just before he passed away aged 40. And so it was all I wanted to do. My only ambition as an actor was to work here. And it took A few years and there were a few, you know, a few failed auditions and I thought. Began to think I was just wanting it too much. And then, yeah, finally got my foot in the door when I was about 29, doing a play called Southwark Fair in the smaller theater. And that sort of led to Nick Heitner, who was running the building at the time, saying he wanted to do Hamlet with me and then wanted to do Iago with me. And that was. I mean, it was kind of like I was doing man of Mode here and I got a call from Nick saying, please can you come to the office? And I thought I was in trouble. I thought that was my. I'd had my shot and I'd blown it and I don't know what I'd done wrong, but I thought, he's gonna ask you to get out the door. And yeah, just sort of laid out this sort of plan for me for the next sort of five, six years. And it was kind of one of those meetings where you leave going, the ground has slightly shifted beneath my feet. I know that.

Well, man of Mode was such a. I mean, you won an Olivier for it, which you know, is like. It's your version of the Tony, right?

Yeah.

Uh huh. Our version of the Olivier is called the Tony Award. No, but that was a huge moment in your career. But it's got to be wild to then be like handed Hamlet after that.

And wild because I. I didn't think of myself like that as an actor. I had confidence in what I could do, but I didn't necessarily think that other people would see me as kind of a leading man. Yeah, I thought I'd be a character actor and I am. But I thought maybe I could play Iago, but I didn't necessarily see myself as Hamlet or Macbeth, which we also did here. And like she was speaking to a young guy at the stage door last night, asking about advice about, you know, to do Shakespeare in particular. Sort of the only advice in terms of.

You had a really wild night last night. You went out to dinner and you talked about the stage door.

And I actually got stopped at stage door rather than you. You must have been going somewhere else.

Two things you never do. You never stop at the stage door unless you're physically out. Physically stops.

I'm usually out. I. That, you know, that privilege to be able to say the words. And you don't have to worry that there's been a thousand people played it before and you don't have to worry the fact there'll be another Thousand people playing it. This is your one opportunity to play those roles and get to feel what it is like to go on the journeys of these incredible roles. It sort of came to a point then that I did think, what. I've got to set myself some other ambitions, some other goals, because I could happily do this for the rest of my life.

Did this building look the same when your dad was performing here? You know, it's this incredible brutalist sign on the Thames river, and I can't imagine it would probably have shifted too much because it's such a time capsule.

No, I don't think they're allowed to. I mean, in fact, they recently, maybe about three or four years ago, replaced the carpets, but had to replace them with exactly the same.

Got it.

Designs.

Can we. Are we going to suggest that they were. That they do the dressing rooms next? Because those. Definitely.

They do, yeah. I mean, what is lovely about the dressing rooms is that they're all in this atrium. All the windows look in on each other. You're able to have conversations across the. Across the. This. I don't actually know what is underneath that.

I don't know either.

Little pointy bit. I mean, there's a jail sense to it.

There is a jail.

A chase.

It is, but it is so special because it's like all the actors dressing rooms face one another in this corridor. And I was always told about this really special tradition on the first preview and on opening night of whatever show's coming in, how all the other actors. Because there's three theaters here and sometimes there's as many as three productions away at the same time, and, you know, they'll bang on the windows and create noise when it's.

I think the first time you hear.

It, I thought a rainstorm was coming. I was like, oh, gosh, it's like it's hailing outside. And I looked out, it was just all these people, these faces that I hadn't really even seen before, people getting ready for their own half hours, banging.

On the windows sort of sense. Because, you know, obviously you try and see everyone's shows and you try and support everyone else's work, but you can't always get to do it. And so the fact that there is this kind of camaraderie expressed through a banging on the window. And we did a. There was a 50th anniversary celebration of the building. We. It was sort of broadcast live on tv. And the same thing happened on that night and. And there was, you know, Judi Dench popping out the window. There was Ian McKellen, Michael Gammon popping out the window, banging on the window. Really just so special. Yeah. And it's, It's. It remains as special as I sort of always thought and hoped it would be.

Yeah, it's so special.

Yeah. I think you always remember that. You always remember your first time, your first bang. First bang out the windows.

Oh, my God, this is so good.

This too.

That truly is asparagus season. All right, so by the time this, this podcast comes out, our show will have been done.

Off into the ether.

Off into the ether. But if you could, like, reflect on, like, what it's been like. You've never done a Sondheim show.

I did Company at university.

Did you really?

At university. I stress. I played Harry.

Oh, okay.

But it wasn't like a kid who was into him. And then when, yeah, I got offered it and I was. Was away camping for the weekend and I sort of began to read it and realized, like, oh, this is going to take a bit more attention than, like. So I sort of put it away for. Until we were back in the first half. I sort of got through it, but was like, it's fun, it's funny. I don't. I don't know what it is. And then sort of about a third of the way through the second half, it just began to click and I began to kind of get it, I guess. And I think an audience is sometimes some of the most right on board from the off, and some of them, it takes a while and some of them maybe don't get.

There's something I also. I just really love about it when it's a divided response. I think there's something really exciting about that. I think it's exciting. Exciting to be a part of something like that.

I enjoy being in things where people. It leaves them thinking, yeah. Rather than like, I had a great time for those two and a half hours. Now I'm gonna get on with my life, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It sticks with you.

Yeah. And it demands you to sort of ask questions about it. And just because he was getting towards the end of his creative and physical life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

His brain was as sharp as attack till the end. And of course, he wasn't gonna go off A, doing something that was easy because he didn't do things easily, or B, do something that was just on one level. He was so loved in the uk, in London in particular, and so much of his work was done here at the national, and he had such a lovely relationship with him. And in fact, he had come to see Hamlet that I had done and had written an incredibly nice email afterwards. Never got to meet him because.

Wow, he wrote you an email?

Yeah, to the whole company. He was, he said it was in his top three theatrical experience of his, of his life.

That's incredible.

So, I mean, we all kept that email.

That's. That's incredible.

An absolute, you know, wow to receive. And then weirdly, that year, he was picking up a special something at the Oliviers and I was, I was sat very near to him and I. It was just one of those things like, I don't want to muck it up. I'm just gonna just walk out of.

Here with my dignity. Because I did the opposite and I mucked it up.

What did you say?

I just told him good job after I saw one of his shows. Cause I didn't know what else to say.

He had done a good job.

He had done a great job.

He'd written it.

He'd done a great job.

Yeah, no, he'd written it, but that's.

All I could say. There was no follow up.

I mean, presumably he was used to people getting a little bit tongue tied around him, I guess.

I don't know. I wish I could go back to In Time and redo that.

Very good job.

Very, very good job, Steven. Personal.

At least I remember we were doing a show at the Don Mart. It was like one of my first shows. And Ron Howard came to see it. And I hadn't been meeting that many sort of fancy American people at the time. And I just remember saying, it's a lovely to meet you. And just thinking, I'm never going to introduce myself ever to people that I admire or respect. It's a lovely to meet you.

It's lovely to meet you. Oh my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rory shares what it was like to be an OG Nepo baby and the special way he's honored his late father. Okay, be right back.

[Rory Kinnear]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

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[Rory Kinnear]

Do you think your kids have, you know, I'm sure they've seen, I mean what do they think about this career that you have? You know, I mean obviously you come from a family that you know also your mom was a soap actress and your dad was a very prolific character actor. And so I imagine that you know, just being a part of the entertainment industry such a young age was very influential to you. I mean do you, do you think about your kids doing racing this and.

If they want to, I mean, you know, as a parent you give them options and you try and encourage them to cast their net wide when they're young and hopefully they find something that they'll like. And quite often actors will say will react with kind of horror that their kids want to do it because, you know, it can be a chaotic.

And I've heard so many actors saying, I would steer my kids away from it. I don't think I would do that.

No. I mean, I love acting.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I also love the life that it's afforded me. So you can't. If you've loved something so much you can't then say you can't, you shouldn't do it. Yeah. And I didn't really get any resistance from my parents and my dad died when I was little, so, I mean, from my mom, I didn't really get. I think when people say, like, you know, what did having parents in the industry give you? As if it was kind of like a leg up. But wasn't necessarily that what it does, it gives you confidence that it's a viable career.

Right.

And that it's not a leap into the unknown. And I think most people who want to enter the industry without any background in it feel the pressure from family or friends and within themselves that, am I throwing everything away on a ludicrous pipe dream? Whereas, because my dad and my mum had both acted and I'd seen, like, fluctuations in their careers, but we had a life, you know, we had a nice life. So it was a job I could. I saw it was a viable job.

You were the first Nepo baby.

I think there were. I think there were some before me.

No, I think you were the very.

First one, Edward iii.

I had such a good time looking at your research because I did get to go down a little bit of a rabbit hole with your dad's career. You share so many characteristics.

Yeah.

You know, I also. I just lost my mother and it's, you know, grief and loss of a parent is something I've been thinking about a lot and I'm obviously on the early end of that grief process.

I've completed it.

You've completed it?

I'm done.

Finished. Wait till you've finished it. It's great.

And I.

So just like researching the history of your family, it was. I don't know, I was just. It felt very. I don't current for me. And it felt like there was just a lot of stuff that you had talked about in interviews. I was like, oh, that's really helpful for me. One of the things you said is, you know, every 10 years you sort of have a different relationship with the loss of a parent, which I think.

You probably would have if they were still alive. I mean, that is the other thing about particular loss of a parent is that Your relationship with them is. Will last your entire life, whether they're there or not. And I was lucky to have had 10 years with my dad. I was obviously unlucky to lose my father. I was lucky to have 10 happy years with my dad where I felt loved and which has been a sustaining love for the 37 years since. And it will remain there. I mean, it is. It is kind of remarkable how potent it still is, how, you know, I will. You know, I will cry about it and. But I have a weird. A weird comfort in it in that my dad lost his dad when he was 8. My dad's father was a. Was a rugby player, quite a celebrated rugby player. I mean, he had died playing rugby and died as part of combat, but he was. Died playing rugby for the raf. And my dad would still cry about his dad when I remember talking to him about it. And in some ways, the fact that he was able to be so open and was still moved over 45 years after. After his father had died, I found kind of comforting. And when I'm interviewed, I'm willing to talk about it, and I'm quite open about it because I love his memory being kept alive.

And I think, you know, most people, I mean, he's. He's pretty ensconced in history just with. With the performance in Willy Wonka alone. Yeah, he played for.

What's the Bruce oldstadt. Yeah, yeah, Mr. Salt.

And, you know, I mean, that's. So many people adore that original. Not the Johnny Depp version.

Sure, sure, sure.

It was wilder.

I did actually. I went along to see it and, you know, interested to see what Tim Burton had done with. And I was enjoying it. And then I think it was James Hawkes who played my dad's role. And he came on screen and literally this sort of. This jolt went through me. Just kind of like, get off the family jewels.

I can imagine.

Yeah, it was kind of back away.

Yeah, you're away from me now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Step away.

[Rory Kinnear]

Away from the part.

So it was obviously. Oh, right, yeah, I do. There was a protective instinct that goes both ways, as there's something so special.

About your dad having left this legacy that people can enjoy. And I mean, I'm struck in a way that you lost your father at such a young age. There must have been so many ways that you built a relationship with him through the work that he had done and left behind as well.

Yeah, I'm unbelievably, like, lucky to have that. And I. I have made full use of it, particularly in the first five, six years after he died, I just watched his stuff all the time because he made me laugh. When my daughter was born. He would have been 80 just before then. And there was a really. There's a really lovely cinema museum just around the road, down the road for me in Kennington, and used to take my son there. They could do like a little Saturday morning kids club. The chap sort of sidled over and was like, you know, if you ever want to do anything here, we'll be happy to. And I said, well, actually, yeah, it would have been his 80th. Maybe I'll do like a 80th birthday celebration. Yeah. And so it was like, do it in about six months. His sister came down from Scotland and friends of his, friends of mine, friends I'd made through the kids to have these generations in a room of like 250 people celebrating him. And then some friends of his did a little Q and A after afterwards. It was unbelievably special to have that opportunity, but also that. That raw material to work with for my son to be able to watch his stuff. And I've got a video of my son when he was about 4, watching Charlie and the Chalk Factory for the first time. And my dad doing this little prat fall down the bad egg chute and him just falling off the sofa, laughing, going again, show me again, show me again. And just thinking, there you are, the hand. Hand reaching out across the generation. You know, I'm very aware of how lucky I was and am to have that.

Yeah.

I mean.

Cause I, you know, I think about when I was 10 or 11. I really have a hard time remembering specifics about that time of my life. Do you remember specifics around, like your time with him when he was alive?

Yeah, I got. I mean, I. I've got plenty. And I think probably. I think probably any kid that loses a parent early or loses anyone early, whether you're doing it actively or subconsciously, you put a highlight pen around things.

Yeah.

From that previous time, the time with them. I got lucky with lots of stuff in life, so I didn't want to, didn't. Slightly sense of responsibility not to throw all that luck away. Yeah. Just on one, you know, one bad day.

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Rory tells me about the legacy of his late sister who passed away from COVID about a special relationship with Dame Judi Dench and how he wooed his partner, Pandora, with his accuracy, as he puts it. Okay, be right back. Okay, so you know, when my husband and I were planning our wedding, we joked that finding the right caterer felt harder than casting a new season of White Lotus. I mean, we were down to the wire tasting 12 different types of risotto, wondering, why is this so hard? I mean, yes, I enjoyed eating 12 different types of risotto, but also I am a fan of anything that makes hiring easier and faster. Like Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Instead of waiting around hoping someone sees your post, Indeed Sponsored Jobs puts your listing right at the top for the right candidates. And it works. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed get 45% more applications than non Sponsored Jobs. One of the things I love about Indeed is how fast the process is. No long term contracts, no subscriptions, you only pay for results. And to give you an idea of how fast we're talking here, and the minute I been chatting with you, 23 hires were made on Indeed. I mean, that's worldwide, but still, that's a lot. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of the show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To give your job posts more visibility@ Indeed.com dinnersonme just go to Indeed.com dinnersonme right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. That's indeed.com dinnersonme. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need. I have got a busy summer ahead. I will be back in New York City performing in Shakespeare in the park, which I am so excited about.

[Rory Kinnear]

And while I'm diving into iamic pentameter under the stars, my husband Justin will be holding down fort at home with the two boys. Baths, bedtime, the whole nine yards.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's.

[Rory Kinnear]

Well, he's basically running a small, adorable circus.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

With all that's going on, it's nice to know that there's one thing that makes life a little simpler.

[Rory Kinnear]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Check ins, and even keeping it stylish so your home can keep welcoming guests even if you're far away from it. So whether you're heading into a new chapter or just out of town for a little bit, find a co [e-mail] host and we're back with more dinners on me.

[Rory Kinnear]

When we were in rehearsal, I came in one day. I had come across a piece you had written about your sister who passed away from COVID pretty early on in the pandemic and your sister, who's older and she has special needs. And you had a very interesting perspective on losing another family member and how you said goodbye under the circumstances you were forced to be in.

I mean, interesting talking about, like, wanting to keep my dad's memory alive in interviews that almost as soon as my sister passed, I wanted to write about it and I wanted to write about it publicly and I wanted her story, which was one of, you know, she had a lack of oxygen at birth and was so severely brain damaged and profound multiple learning, dis. Disability, but gave as much to us as we gave to her. And, and the sort of, the, the people with that severity of disability don't, don't get written about when they die, not in newspapers. And I realized, like, having the privilege of having a bit of a name or whatever it is, that someone would probably publish it. Yeah, I knew it. It was a similar story to thousands of people in this country and obviously hundreds and thousands of millions of people around the world. That sense of what my mom was very good about was we're not going to hide away, but we're going to keep fighting for the best quality of life that she can get. We're going to not accept. No. Every time it's told here, I just keep fighting. That's what my mum's, as most parents of a disabled kid find they have to do. It's just fight, fight, fight, fight, fight for the little scraps that are on offer. My mum, Karina, was living at home with us as we were getting older. My other sister and I, as we were getting older and my mom sort of, I guess, realized that her life was going to be, you know, greener and her and ever decreasing scraps of like the care support that she might be offered. So she, and again linking it back to this building she decided she was going to. And my mum and dad had talked about establishing a sort of center of excellence, a small sort of center of excellence for young adults like Karina. And she thought, okay, I'm gonna do it. She'd never had any experience in the charity sector at all, but, but driven by necessity and a refusal to be cowed by it all went along to an auction and put a bit, put a bit. I'd never been to an auction before put a bid on a. On a. On a bungalow, and then realized, okay, I'm gonna have to raise this money now. Wow. So she actually approached Richard Eyre, who was the boss of the National Theater at the time, said, any chance we could do, like a fundraising show? They'd never done a fundraising show here before. It was kind of like, I don't think it was. Was considered part of what this building should do and whatever. But knowing how loved my dad was, Richard said, yes. And so that. That bungalow that she got at that auction, they transformed it into a home for six young disabled adults. And where Karina lived until. Until she died, and where now that level of care and level of attention and level of sort of respect and dignity is afforded to people and, you know, hopefully will for long past, hopefully my life, let alone my mum's. And to have something lasting, you know, much more than a newspaper article. Lasting and meaningful and tangible.

I mean, what a gift that that was able to happen.

I mean, like, when you. When you try and quantify what we do, right, in terms of concrete success or concrete, what it actually means, compared to a house in Twickenham that looks after, you know, six young disabled adults, it's, you know, that's. It's an unfair.

I mean, it's incomparable, really, Truly. Oh, God. I was connected to what we were just saying.

Just have a big mouthful of lamb whilst you compose yourself.

Yeah, I don't know if this is what I was going to say, but you. Speaking of your film career, you went first of all from, you know, doing Shakespeare and being a very celebrated stage actor to being a part of a pretty big franchise with the James Bond films. And another connection there, I know that Judi Dench, who you played opposite of in the films, was a family friend and in fact her husband. Tell me his name again.

Michael Williams. Williams.

Is your godfather?

Was, yeah.

Was your godfather. He passed away quite a few years.

Ago now, but, yeah, so he and my dad had been at the RSC together in the, let's say, late 60s, I think, and have become great mates. So, yeah, when. When I came along, he was. And he was a great, great godfather as well. But obviously, Judy, it was really nice to. When I first started doing those films, most of my time was just spent with her. And she's just as good fun as she is. Good at acting. Yeah, yeah, she's very good at acting. Good job, good job. So, yeah, and we went away to Panama for a week or so filming that first one we did together. And on what could have been a slightly overwhelming experience to have someone that. A good and respected, but also so kind and easygoing.

And even though maybe you weren't super connected to her personally, I mean, like, she had such a deep connection to your family.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, your father.

And she is one of those people who, I mean, when Mike died, she sort of took over and started sending me presents. And I'm like, you know, I'm 28 now, you know, but she, you know, she still sends me a bottle of wine on my birthday. She sends a rose to my mom on the anniversary of their. My mom and dad's wedding anniversary. I mean, she's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's very thoughtful.

[Rory Kinnear]

Just one of those great people.

Did she ever tell you things about your father that you didn't know or.

I mean, every. Again, a nice thing about following him into the same career is that every job I did for the first 15, 20 years was with. Was usually with one or two or three people who had worked with him. And still to this day, you know, I'm meeting people I've not met before who have a story about him from, you know, the 70s rating and, you know, much to my great fortune. He was a really lovely man. So they're all positive stories. Must be quite difficult if you're the son or daughter of someone who was famously an asshole. What you must have to do to sort of. To apologize, to pre apologize before they get there.

Well, you yourself have a very good reputation. Actually, I got a phone call from Alison Janney the night before we started this saying, you're about to work with Rory. You're gonna love him so much. Buckle up. He's so funny. I was like, oh, if Allyson likes this guy, I'm.

Well, that is also. I mean, I think it's a slight testament to that, that cast and set actually on the Diplomat. Yeah. Because I mean, really lucky to have gone from. We finished the third series of that, and I flew here to start this. But to have had back to back jobs with two casts that are not only, like, good and nice, but really smart. But when it. When it does, and when everything therefore becomes so easy, you just don't want any other way of working. You just don't want ever to have to. To not work like this.

Yeah.

If it can be done, why isn't it done all the time?

Yeah, you were telling me the other thing you're working on right now. You are in a prequel of Lord of the Rings called. Called the Rings of Power. Rings of Power. And you're playing a character that is referenced a lot in the Lord of the Rings.

Yeah. There's one section of the first book in which he appears and that Peter Jackson didn't use because he couldn't sort of work out how it would drive the narrative forward because it was such a big story. Well, it was more just like he's kind of like a character that people who know the books quite often love. Some of them probably don't, but quite often love because he is unlike anyone else in the lore.

Okay.

And he is as old as time your go to.

So, yes, I see how this happened.

He is sort of whimsical and wise and in touch with the earth and sort of as one with nature.

And what is his name again?

Tom Bombadil.

Did you feel. Because you didn't know a lot about the character and obviously, like you just said, it's a very popular character. Your partner Pandora was like, this is incredible. It's my favorite character in the books. People love this character. In fact, when I was going through my little rabbit hole, like researching, you know, what people were saying about this character, there was like a whole, like, I didn't watch the whole thing. It was like 69 minutes long. But they were. Once your casting was announced, there was like one picture of you. Terrible. Terry Paul.

No.

They were like analyzing your costume and like how the feather was sitting on your hat and like, it was just, you know, people are obsessed. Okay. So was there. Were you aware of that fandom?

Well, I'd seen my partner's reaction, so I knew that, like, there was going to be expectation and he hadn't been in any of the adaptations.

Musicians. Right.

So I knew there was going to be an appetite for it.

Right.

But I also always sort of come back when. When it was announced that I was. Whenever people found out I was playing Hamlet, it was announced. When it was announced that people. I was playing Hamlet, people would go, God, you're not a bit. Bit scared. It's a lot, isn't it? That's a lot. That's a big deal. As if it was this kind of burden. It's like, I like acting. Yeah, this is a good part. Yeah. Yeah.

It's well written.

Yeah.

So I. I'm just gonna want to do him.

I'm just going to enjoy acting the part because I like acting.

Yeah.

And I guess similar with this, it was like, I might not be everyone's idea, but this is. I've been asked. So here's my opportunity and privilege to be able to Discover what it means to me.

Yeah, yeah. I've never been a part of something that has been, like, wildly protected. Like, you know, I imagine, like, people who are doing Marvel movies, like this happens to them, but, like, you know, and it probably even happened with the James Bond films to some degree. But, like, you know, they fiercely protect the material. And I've.

The script for James Bond is. Is delivered by. By car. And if there are changes in the script, they are delivered by car.

Really? Still, there's nothing. Nothing's ever digital. Nothing's ever emailed.

I mean, they got burnt. Yeah. So, yeah, I understand why they did it.

I think I am. Yeah.

Yeah. Great. Thank you very much. Delicious.

How did you in Pandora meet?

We met.

First of all. I feel like people in England refer to their husbands and wives as partners way more than we do. Although I know you're not legally married.

We are legally civilly partners.

You're civilly partnered because after a while.

When you got kids, like calling and we weren't legal, but calling someone your girlfriend is. So you sort of have to. And then, you know, even before we were civilly partnered, I was beginning to call her a partner.

But then you also realized your civil partner, that's pretty sexy. My cp, I did my seats, caters my seat, Pandora. Okay, so you. So you. How did you and Pandora meet?

We met through my best friend, who I've known since I was two and. And who is not in this industry, but he used. He is a graphic designer and designed some posters for a band that she. So she was a bassist in various bands.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What age were you when you met her?

[Rory Kinnear]

I was 27.

Oh, wow.

Got in touch with her and she said, oh, I'm having a birthday party, invite a friend. And because she's quite. She's quite small, she looks quite a bit younger than she is. And we turned up and said, oh, it's your birthday?

She went, yeah, can I have a lollipop?

She said, how old? How old? I said, how old are you today? She went, how old do you think I am? Knowing that most people fear quite a bit younger. I said, 33. Went, yeah, I'm exactly 33.

Oh, really?

Yeah, I got it spot on. And it's that level of accuracy that she fell for. And, yeah, we spoke for about 12 hours. And I said to my friend, that's it. I'm done.

I'm gonna make her my cp.

I need to make that woman officially legal within Lambeth's registrar.

I love. I know you've told this story Before, But I think it's so sweet. On one of your first dates, you bought a pair of. We would call them rain boots.

Yeah.

You would call. Thank you.

Some people might say sweet. Some people might say creepy. We. We bought a pair of. Yeah. Wellington boots. Some kids were having, like, a garage sale, and, yeah, we were just going for a walk, and I bought this pair of wellies. And sort of in the back of my mind, maybe in the front, I was like, I wonder if our kids will wear these? And they did. So there you are again. I was right.

You were right. You're right. But, yeah. You didn't tell her.

I didn't at the time, go, well.

Did she think you were buying these little tiny wellies?

She thought I was being adorable, helping out these kids, make some money for their charity, whatever they were doing.

Yeah, you did say these are for our future children.

Yeah, Yeah. I tried to put them on my own feet. I put them on my hands and walked on all fours down the street.

When did you guys start discussing this something you wanted to do?

I think I wanted kids. I think when you meet the person that you know you're gonna be with, you want to be with, you have to be you, it instantly becomes quite scary. Yeah, Daz.

No, you're so right.

And also, I think the fact that we are both actors makes it so much easier to be able to go. Go for it. If it takes you away. Takes you away. Or like, if we're going to be both be working, we'll make it work. We love what we do. We want to do it. And as much as we love our kids, we're not gonna, you know, not gonna not do the thing we love.

I mean, I think there's also some advice that I've gotten from some of my friends, is that, you know, you want your children to also see you pursuing the things that make you happy. That's setting a good example because you want them to do those things, too.

Cocaine.

Cocaine. But, you know, I think it's polygamy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's important for them.

Daddy likes it, but Daddy likes it.

It's important that they see, like, you know, you doing the things that make you happy. And, like.

Absolutely. I mean, but also, you get one shot at life. And I want them to take their shot at life. I feel like I'm really lucky that I'm able to do the thing I love. I'm also with someone I love, and I have kids that I love. The riches are beyond compare. And again, I think that's probably why when the show finishes I go home. Because you have a small window as I mean like, yes, you will be a parent to them for the rest of your life. You have a small window when you're absolutely integral to their day to day existence.

Right, well.

And you don't want to waste it.

As we, you know, as any parent says, things go by so fast. There is for me, I do feel, relate deeply to what you're saying. There is a need to sort of grasp onto a little bit of each day. There are times where it's 24 hours where I don't get to see my kids because of work and their nap schedules and their school schedules. And I feel that deeply and I know I'm gonna see them the next day and I saw them the day before. But like there's something about like I can't believe a day has gone by in my kids lives that I have not been able to be a part of it in a physical, meaningful, present way.

I did a show in la. Our flag means day comedy show about pirates. And I hadn't realized that when I was, was going to go to LA and film and because they'd worked out my visa for me that I could just come and go. I thought like that was what it was going to be. And I got there like, no, you have to reapply every time you go back to the UK and it takes four to five weeks. You, you can't go home.

Oh God.

And so I had to have the. And I'd never done, done more than 10 days away from them at the time.

How old were they at the time?

So was it they were like 10 and 7 and then. Yeah, I just had to make the call and like, you know, I said it might be, be back in about 10 days, it might be four months. And I know, you know, as always, like for the first 48 hours it's quite nice. You know, see new places and you, you get to have your own time.

Yeah, that was me for the first week of this rehearsal process. I was like, this is great. London by myself.

And then the enjoyment absolutely falls off a cliff. You feel you've never been lonelier. And I was faced with kind of four months. So yeah, in that sense of being really, really made really, really vivid just how much I want to be around my family and try and you know what was great about the Diplomat? Obviously filming in, in London doing something that was. That you thought was.

Yeah. But then Keri Russell moved into the States.

Well Yeah. So now I get a few trips to New York, so it's not too bad.

Which, by the way, I said this to Carrie. I was like, Rory's like a really good dancer. I don't know if I'd come while we're doing dancing, but, like, you know, I was just astonished and still am, how quickly you pick up choreography and how you also remember what everyone else is supposed to do. Like, if I make a mistake across the stage behind you, you somehow know about it.

And I. And I let everybody know.

Oh, yeah, you let everyone know, including the audience, Including Icmover. And she was like, I'm actually not surprised. I'm actually not surprised at all.

I'm coming from her.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, please, real dancer. Like an ex ballerina. Thank you so much for doing this. I'm gonna let you get to.

Thank you, Jesse. I'll see you in approximately two minutes.

Go ahead, go to warmup. Dinner's on me. Don't worry about paying anything.

It's all on the National View.

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Lasdun at the National Theatre in London's South Bank. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know him from the TV series Catastrophe, Marvel's Deadpool and Wolverine. And more recently, playing opposite Michelle Williams in the Hulu dramedy Dying for Sex, it's Rob Delaney. We'll get into his life as an expat finding comedy in dark times. And he tells me about playing Michelle Williams, horny neighbor. And if you don't want to wait.

[Rory Kinnear]

Until next week to listen, you can.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson.

[Rory Kinnear]

It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker with production support from Matias Torres Soleil. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale Sheet composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

[D]

Mom and dad. I'm growing at an alarming rate and clothes you buy me this year will be very small very soon. But at least your wallet doesn't have to be my fashion victim. With low prices for school at Amazon, hope that helps Amazon spend less, smile more.