Sharon Horgan – on pulling from personal chaos for ‘Catastrophe’ and plotting revenge in ‘Bad Sisters'

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Sharon Horgan on Personal Chaos, Creative Genius, and Navigating Relationships

Episode Title: Sharon Horgan – on pulling from personal chaos for ‘Catastrophe’ and plotting revenge in ‘Bad Sisters'

Release Date: August 5, 2025

Introduction to Sharon Horgan

In this captivating episode of Dinner’s on Me, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with acclaimed writer, actress, and creator Sharon Horgan. Known for her sharp wit and relatable storytelling, Sharon delves deep into her creative journey, personal experiences, and the intricate balance between vulnerability and humor in her work.

Sharon Horgan's Background and Early Life

Sharon opens up about her roots, sharing insights into her upbringing in London and Ireland. Born in Hackney Hospital before moving back to Ireland at the age of three, she recounts the serendipitous circumstances that led her back to London as an adult. Reflecting on her childhood, Sharon humorously touches on her introverted nature and reluctance to engage in sports, a sentiment that resonates with many parents navigating their children's activities.

Sharon Horgan [05:04]: "Born in this area, which I kind of don't always like to admit because I'm Irish. But I was born here."

Career Highlights: Pulling, Catastrophe, Bad Sisters

Sharon discusses her breakthrough with the British sitcom Pulling, co-created with Dennis Kelly. The show, characterized by its authentic portrayal of struggling early careers and complex relationships, marked Sharon’s emergence as a formidable writer and actress.

Transitioning to Catastrophe, Sharon shares how her personal relationship experiences inspired the series. The candid depiction of a whirlwind marriage and its challenges underscored the show's authenticity and emotional depth.

Sharon Horgan [17:00]: "We wanted to show all the hardships, but we thought very, very early at the beginning, what if they just really make each other laugh?"

Expanding her repertoire, Sharon touches on Bad Sisters, highlighting the adaptation process from the original Belgian series to the emotionally charged narrative that emphasizes sisterhood and personal fallout over mere plot twists.

Sharon Horgan [36:15]: "The whole premise is the original belongs to the original series. It was about five sisters trying to kill someone, but we made it much more about the emotional fallout and the sisters."

Creative Process and Writing

A significant portion of the conversation delves into Sharon’s creative process. She emphasizes the importance of drawing from personal experiences and emotions to craft relatable and impactful stories. Sharon reflects on the evolution of her writing style, balancing humor with genuine emotional moments to engage a broad audience.

Sharon Horgan [21:40]: "Like, say those things you weren't able to say."

Personal Life and Relationships

Sharon candidly discusses her personal life, including her relationship dynamics and the influence of her family. She shares anecdotes about her siblings, highlighting the motivating force they represent in her life and career.

Sharon Horgan [10:23]: "We have such good times together. We're really good at having a party."

The conversation also touches on her recent relationship, the age difference with her partner, and the refreshing connection they share, blending humor with heartfelt moments.

Sharon Horgan [11:32]: "It's different when I think my age because you're so... being single again at my age is kind of a whole thing."

Reflections on Relationships and Parenthood

Both Sharon and Jesse explore the complexities of modern relationships and parenthood. They discuss the challenges of maintaining a strong partnership amidst personal and professional pressures, the impact of parenting on relationships, and the mutual support that sustains them.

Sharon Horgan [22:07]: "We wanted to show all the hardships, but also retain that love. It's heroic if you can get through that and still retain that love."

Thoughts on Growing Older and Family

Sharon and Jesse share their perspectives on aging, loss, and the evolving dynamics within their families. They reflect on the emotional toll of losing parents and the deep conversations that arise with young children about life and mortality.

Sharon Horgan [32:53]: "I just like to work more and write more because, as soon as I stop thinking about whatever characters I'm got on the page, I start thinking about the fact that we're all hurtling towards each other."

Upcoming Projects

Looking ahead, Sharon teases her new project for HBO, expressing excitement about expanding her creative horizons. She also hints at potential future seasons for Bad Sisters, discussing the show's development and the emotional depth she aims to maintain.

Sharon Horgan [36:07]: "I'm working on a new show for HBO that I'm really excited about, so that's kind of what I'm doing."

Conclusion

Jesse wraps up the heartfelt and insightful conversation by expressing his admiration for Sharon’s work and their meaningful exchange. Listeners are left with a profound appreciation for Sharon Horgan’s ability to intertwine personal experiences with universal themes, creating content that is both entertaining and deeply resonant.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson [44:18]: "It's really thrilling meeting you. I just have been such a fan for so long. I really look forward to everything you create and I cannot wait to see what's next."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers a deep dive into Sharon Horgan’s multifaceted life and career. From her early days in Hackney to her current successes, Sharon’s blend of humor, vulnerability, and creative brilliance provides listeners with both inspiration and a compelling narrative of resilience and connection.

Join the Conversation

To stay updated with future episodes and gain early access to new content, consider subscribing to Dinner’s on Me PLUS. For more engaging podcasts from Sony Music Entertainment, visit sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow @sonypodcasts on social media.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes have people with British accents right now. It's amazing here. I love it. And until I need directions or restaurant recs or anything. And I've got no wi fi and sky high roaming fees, which is just. It's not cute. That's why I started using Saily. Saily is an easy to use ESIM app created by the folks behind NordVPN. It gives you instant mobile data in over 190 countries and you only have to install it once. That means I didn't have to line up at the airport for a SIM card, get scammed outside the train station, or keep hunting for public wi fi signals like it's a rare Pokemon. Seriously, I sat outside of Wagamama the other day trying to get onto their wi fi for probably 20 minutes. I just opened the app, picked a regional plan and boom. I had reliable Internet from Italy to Greece without switching a thing. Plus Saily offers private features and 24. 7 support, which makes me feel a whole lot more secure out here. Get 15% off your Saly plan with the code dinnersonme just download the Saly app or head to saily.com dinnersonme s A-I-L y.com dinnersonme stay connected and don't miss your dinner reservation. As a dad, I spent a lot of time thinking about how to give Beckett and Sullivan the best foundation possible. You know, how to help them grow into curious, confident little humans. And let me tell you, every kid learns differently. That's why I was really impressed when I found out about K12 powered schools. These are accredited, tuition free online public schools for kindergarten through 12th grade. And they're designed to meet kids where they are. Whether your kid thrives on structure, needs a little more flexibility, or learns best outside the traditional classroom, K12 offers an engaging curriculum tailored to their style. And the best part, it works with your family's schedule. Learning can happen wherever there's Internet access. So if you're juggling a million things, totally get that. This can be a game changer for your kids. Join the more than 3 million families who have chosen K12 and empower your student to reach their full potential. Now go to k12.comjtftoday to find a tuition free K12 powered school near you and enroll. Now that's the letter K. The number 12.com JTF K12.com JTF hi, it's Jessi today on the show. You know her from hit shows like Bad Sisters and Catastrophe. It's Sharon Horgan.

[Sharon Horgan]

He said, I work, so I forget. And I was like, well, me too. I work cause I want to forget. Like that's, that's why I get my head down.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Escape, isn't it at work.

[Sharon Horgan]

And he was like, he's going, no, no, I walk because I forget. Like he was like going in and out because he forgot his tools.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He was just like, he was circling back. This is Dinners on Me and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I am sitting here in London in the neighborhood of Hackney. I'm waiting for my guest who actually I believe was born in this very area, Sharon Horgan. I am such a massive fan of hers. I have been a fan of hers for a very long time. I think I first discovered her when she was doing the show Catastrophe. She created it and starred in it. But then I became obsessed with her and I was like, what else has this woman done? Because she's a genius. And I found this show called Pulling, which was her first success and completely devoured it. It's fantastic. And I have been following her career ever since. She has the creator of the massively successful Bad Sisters on Apple tv. I cannot wait to meet her and sit down with her and pick her brain and discuss this incredible career she's had. I'm bringing Sharon to Murito in Hackney, which she is very familiar with this neighborhood because as I said, she was born here. Merido is a vibrant small plates restaurant known for its bold flavors inspired by the cuisines of Spain, North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. If you happen to be in the Exmouth Market area, they have a sibling restaurant named Moro, which is heavily acclaimed. This place feels light and airy. It's extremely hip. I feel like I'm in Brooklyn or Silver Lake. This is a very, very cool area. The restaurant's beautiful. It has a horseshoe shaped marble topped bar, polished concrete floors, and it's just a very inviting, beautifully lit, bright space. All right, let's get to the conversation. So you were raised in this area, right? You were born in this area?

[Sharon Horgan]

Born in this area, which I kind of don't always like to admit because. Because I'm Irish. But I was born here. My mum and dad were here for a certain amount of time. I was actually born around the corner in Hackney Hospital and. And then they moved to Ireland, back to Ireland when I was three. But then I ended up back in Hackney. It's so. I mean, that I ended up back living here is kind of mad. You know, it is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, of all places in London.

[Sharon Horgan]

Just by accident, I was just driving around. I was. I think I was pregnant. And I was just looking for places that had push chairs that were, like. Looked kind of fun as well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

And. Yeah. And then suddenly it was happening, and I was like, oh, right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, the vibe in this area seems sort of young and hip and, like, kind of. I would, like, maybe associated with, like. Like, Brooklyn.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, it is kind of Brooklyn Williamsburg kind of thing. How's it going? Hi. Good. Can I get you something to drink to start? I'm all right, actually. I've got water.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I might do your sparkling lemonade.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, sure. Would you like to go fizzy?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Fizzy?

[Sharon Horgan]

Fizzy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I said sparkling, but I meant fizzy. I'm American.

[Sharon Horgan]

No problem. No problem. Perfect spark. Amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We know what we want. Yeah. Okay. We're gonna do the labneh.

[Sharon Horgan]

Did you want that with bread as well?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, sure.

[Sharon Horgan]

And can we get the hot stick? Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We're looking on the other side now. Grilled asparagus.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we'll do the ceviche.

[Sharon Horgan]

Ceviche, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And the Cretan sausage.

[Sharon Horgan]

Sounds good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do we think that's enough?

[Sharon Horgan]

I think. Yeah. Maybe start off with that and then see how you go. I think that's a good. That's a good amount to start off with.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It feels right.

[Sharon Horgan]

It does feel good. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. My instincts say stop. Okay.

[Sharon Horgan]

Thank you so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I haven't eaten it today because I had to go to sports day.

[Sharon Horgan]

You did?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I went to my very first sports day, so my kids that are. Are with me here in London, and my husband.

[Sharon Horgan]

How old are they?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Five and three.

[Sharon Horgan]

Oh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was really. I mean, I was a very, very much an indoor kid. Like, I like to be in the corner with my crowd. Like an indoor kid. Yes. Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

Would you. That's so funny. So if someone opened the door for.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You, you'd just be like, I don't want to go out there. There's bugs and sunshine, and I don't want to be out in it.

[Sharon Horgan]

Aw.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No. I was very shy, and I also did not play sports well. And it's like, what was happening today, what I witnessed was sort of my worst nightmare. They were all having such a great time.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, I know. But it's also. It can also be not a nice time. Yeah. I mean, if your kid isn't sporty.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

I did an episode about it on this. Do you ever watch this show I made called Motherland?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've seen everything you've Done.

[Sharon Horgan]

You have.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

But the sports day episode was the most fun to write, but gave me the most ptsd, because that memory of, like, a kid sort of failing and then looking over at you for affirmation and you just trying to make your face do the right thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you competitive with your siblings growing up?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yes and no. I mean, we were all so different. And also my brothers are quite a bit younger.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And one of your brothers is, like, a professional rugby player.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, well, he was, but, yeah. Yeah, he was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, no one competes with that.

[Sharon Horgan]

No. Not in an Irish family. No. No one can be with a son who plays rugby for Ireland, which was kind of good. You know, it was kind of good to know that, like, you didn't have to because there was no way you could compete. But, I mean, it's hard to compete with sons in an Irish family anyway.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

Even if they do fuck all.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

Carry a certain kind of start us naturally.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're. I did a little research on your family just because I, I, I find, you know, people with lots of siblings obviously, fascinating because it's like, you know, there's so many different facets of, like, that same family. And it seems like everyone in your. All your siblings have done so well in, like, whatever fields they want to do. Like, I'm, It's.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You have a really cool family.

[Sharon Horgan]

Oh, they're the best.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I feel like going home for the holidays must be a lot of fun.

[Sharon Horgan]

It's the best. It really is. I mean, they are part of the reason why I sort of pushed myself to try and be successful, because it was, you know, I didn't want to be the only one who was like, you know, just living in a squat in London, not getting my shit together, which I did for a long time, but then I was like, hang on, everyone's doing it apart from me. And so, yeah, it did make me knuckle down. It's like when you have.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's like, you sure did lap them and, like, do pretty well for yourself.

[Sharon Horgan]

But it's like when you, you know, when you hang out with the clever kids at schools, you don't want to be the dummy, you know, it does, it does. It is an impetus to sort of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it's a great motivator.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, it's a great motivator. But, yeah, but also apart from that, they are, they are the best laugh we have. We have such good times together. We're really good at, we're really good at, you know, having A party?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

Do you have siblings?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I do. I have a younger brother and sister.

[Sharon Horgan]

Are they similar age here? Are you close in age?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm the oldest and I'll be 50 this year. And they're.

[Sharon Horgan]

You're. Have a big party?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I am, yeah. My husband turns 40. I'm 10 years older than him.

[Sharon Horgan]

I've got a younger partner as well. Yeah, same. Not. Well, it's actually nine years.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

I said 10 years for a while, and it freaked me out too much, so I've kind of. It is not.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Why were you rounding up?

[Sharon Horgan]

I don't know why I was rounding up. I think initially I was like, oh, that's exotic, being 10 years older. And I sort of got off on it. And then I was like, oh, no, that's not good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where did you two meet?

[Sharon Horgan]

Well, we met years ago on a. Doing a film together, and then. And, you know, became friendly and then a good few years later. This wasn't on purpose, by the way. Why? Well, I cast them in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh.

[Sharon Horgan]

In Bad Sisters.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No way.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah. Honestly, it wasn't on purpose. It was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is this relationship public? Do you. You've talked about it, right. Before. Do people know about it?

[Sharon Horgan]

I've never talked about it before, actually.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, okay.

[Sharon Horgan]

But, yeah, So, I mean, you know, it was unexpected, but it's different when I think my age because you're so. Wow.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, that's a sweetie.

[Sharon Horgan]

I forgot about the ceviche. Yeah, it's different when you're my age because you're kind of like. I don't know. Being single again at my age is kind of. Was kind of a whole thing, and. And it just feels like so much fun just to meet someone who you can have a laugh with and connect with and, you know, it's. It's like surprising. It's just, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, it's something you kind of don't expect to get again.

[Sharon Horgan]

I don't know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's what I'm saying. Like, I. There's some. I don't know, I don't envy you because I don't wish I was with my partner, but I envy you in the fact that, like, you get to have those feelings that you had when you were in your. At least when I was in my young 20s or starting to date Justin, when I was in my early 30s.

[Sharon Horgan]

You know, how was it like meeting someone when you were just at that early stage of huge fame?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A lot of my friends were giving me the advice to not get into something and just, I bet, you know, enjoy that.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I mean, that's all to say, like, I'm glad that this person that I'm sharing the time after Modern Family, I'm glad that same person that kind of saw me through the entire thing.

[Sharon Horgan]

Got you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Sharon and I talk about why some new TV shows flop, how she draws from her own life for inspiration, and the fine line between being honest and being too uncomfortable to watch. Okay, be right back. Okay, let's be honest. Staying hydrated is the only thing keeping me from turning into a raisin these days. That's why Fiji water is always close by. Fiji water really is from the islands of Fiji, 1600 miles from the nearest continent. It's filtered through ancient volcanic rock, naturally protected from external elements. And it picks up a unique profile of electrolytes and minerals along the way that gives it more than double the electrolytes of the other top premium bottled water brands. And soft, smooth taste that I absolutely love. Unlike some other top premium bottled water brands, Fiji's water electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. And Fiji's water has a perfect balance. 7.7 pH. I have no idea what that means, but I like the word perfect score. Okay. And since 2022, Fiji's water's 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made with 100% recycled plastic. So whether I'm backstage at home with or planning our podcast recording, I know I'm hydrating the earth's finest way. Fiji Water. It's earth's finest water. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven gold turkey. Always. It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master ham. Because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, Cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care, because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game. Trust me. Start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head. Committed to crafts since 1905. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Sharon Horgan]

I was going to say, do you know I went in for two auditions for Modern Family?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And you didn't get them?

[Sharon Horgan]

No, of course I didn't.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I thought maybe you, like, said no.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, no, thanks.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Was this before Catastrophe?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, it must have been before. I think it was just. Yes, it was just before because I was over there making a pilot which I was so sure wouldn't go that I went in for the Modern Family. Do you remember which.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Which part it was or what the scenario was?

[Sharon Horgan]

It was Julie's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, you went in for.

[Sharon Horgan]

For.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

To play Claire?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, no. I thought. Okay, this entire time, I thought you were, like, auditioning for, like, a guest role. I was like, tell me.

[Sharon Horgan]

Not at all.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Tell me something about the character you auditioned for. Her name was Claire. I mean. Okay, okay. I didn't know that. The way you said it made it sound like was for, you know, like a guest star.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, it was for Claire. Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

For Claire. It's so funny because when I was watching some episodes of Pulling, which was your first show, and I was like, God, there is a. You and Julie have the same energy about you.

[Sharon Horgan]

I love her so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Isn't she great?

[Sharon Horgan]

Oh, she's great. But everyone. Everyone in the show is great. I mean, it's like a master class of comedy. Acting like, it really. It blows me away. It really, really does. But it was also, like. Because I always had this thing of, you know, a lot of my earlier stuff was, you know, what you might call cult hits, which means nobody really watched them. So I always had this sort of attitude that, like, that's what I like to make. I just like to make stuff that, you know, if you like it, you like it. But actually, my big ambition was always to make something that was really good and funny that millions of people saw.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of course, that's what you want.

[Sharon Horgan]

So Modern Family was just one of those shows that I thought somehow some. Somehow they've managed to hit the jackpot with the demographic where everyone at every age, you know, will want to watch that show. And that's the thing, I think it's like Rob Delaney used to say that it. You know, if something. If you write something and it's, you know, only funny to white people, then it's not funny. If it's only funny to women, then it's not funny. It needs to sort of, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Be more universal, be more universal, and.

[Sharon Horgan]

And it was just very inspiring to watch something that could be that funny and yet, you know, be mainstream, you know, and really attract that kind of wide audience.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it definitely felt like lightning in a bottle for a lot of reasons. But when you were doing pulling, which I guess was probably the first thing that, you know, people would know you from, but also was the first, I guess, sort of reflection of success, that you were a great writer as well as an actress. But with that, I feel there's a scrappiness to it that I kind of love. It kind of reminded me a little bit of, I don't know, like, what Broad City was in the early days. Like, these two people just wanted to create something, and they got people who they trusted to do this thing, and they were able to create it in a bubble, and it was the thing that they wanted it to be.

[Sharon Horgan]

I know. It's so real and pulling.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Definitely feels like that. It's tonally so specific. It's tight and it's about. I mean, I think it's based on your early years as a song.

[Sharon Horgan]

Dennis Kelly, who I wrote it with. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it's just so specific and so relatable to anyone who, you know, struggled to kick off their careers and like.

[Sharon Horgan]

Or relationship.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Or relationship. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it also seems like it was kind of created and made without a ton of outside help. I mean, is that correct?

[Sharon Horgan]

We had so few notes on the whole thing. It was like everyone went on holiday. It didn't make sense. It makes less sense now, but we would get, like, a handful of notes per series. I mean, really, really nothing. And given, like, the fact that Dennis and I had never made anything before makes it even more, like, refreshing and amazing and, like, I haven't watched it for years, but I went back and looked at some of it, like, a good couple of years ago, and I thought, wow, we really went dark on that and didn't, like, you ever look for a happy ending or. And I don't know whether I would entirely do that now. It's funny how your. Your perspective and. And even your taste kind of changed, but I'm really glad we did it then, you know, I'm really glad that it is the show that it is, because it was reflective of our lives then, and it was exactly what we wanted to make at that time. And I think it's the same with, like. With Catastrophe. With Rob and I, it's exactly what we wanted to make, but we also wanted it to have, you know, a kind of a more of a warmth to it, you know, and to have a slightly more optimistic outlook and to, you know, just examine things under a completely different lens because, you know, we had families and marriages and that kind of thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right, right. I mean, also, it's such a gift when you can bring your experiences into your work and turn your trauma into art and offer it up, you know, with funny writing and sort of, like, reclaim your trauma, I guess, rewrite your mistakes. Exactly.

[Sharon Horgan]

Like, say those things you weren't able to say.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I know you did that certainly with pulling and then also with catastrophe, you know, that was also based on your current relationship and sort of this whirlwind marriage and getting pregnant with this partner. And what I really responded to with Catastrophe. There's such a great honesty between that couple, I think, because they were so fresh to each other, yet at the same time parenting together.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The way that those characters talked to one another and joked with one another and made each other laugh brutally sometimes, like, really putting each other down. But also, you just wanted to be with them. Like, that's the relationship I wanted. I was like, I want a relationship where I can, like, dog on my partner and he knows I love him so much. That's.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know. There was something really aspirational about that, that relationship.

[Sharon Horgan]

The dream, isn't it? That is. I mean, we wanted it to be very real and, you know, to be a true portrait of a marriage, kind of in opposition to what we'd seen previously, you know, what had been depicted before, because it just felt like no one can achieve the perfect relationship, you know, so we wanted to show all the hardships, but we thought very, very early at the beginning, what if they just really make each other laugh? And it also helped because I'm a terrible Corpser as well, and Rob Delaney is so funny. So it actually really helped that he could say something funny and I could laugh at it. Whereas, I don't know, I feel like the previous sitcom style was for a character to say something funny and for you to sort of be like, eye roll or, you know, like, have it. Have a sitcom reaction to it. So it was great to actually just really feel like we were living it. But then by the time we got to the fourth season, we had so much less sex as a, you know, a couple of characters, because, I mean, that's what happens in a relationship. So it made Us laugh so much that the first couple of seasons it was, you know, we were writing so many sex scenes and, you know, and it was uncomfortable and, you know, not for the faint hearted. And then by the time you get to season four, it's just like, it's barely there.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

It's mainly just like the kind of the tragedies and the difficulties you have to deal with in a family, you know, with parents dying and just getting older but still trying to stay in love, you know, still like trying to hold on to that thing. And it's heroic, you know, if you can get through that and still retain that love. And you know what? I love that couples liked watching Catastrophe. It made me really happy because sometimes when you make something about a relationship, if you're being really honest, sometimes it can be too hard to watch. You know that thing where you kind of, you're scared to kind of look at your partner because you're both feeling that. Right. That awful thing that they're talking about on the telly, you know, when you, when you, when you sort of. I remember when I was making divorce, like, I know couples did not like watching that together because it was so much the end of a relationship. It was a breakdown. And, you know, even though there was this thing of like, you know, you could change sides, you could, you know, he was the body that and she was the baddie, generally it was just a feeling of uncomfortableness because everyone's felt those terrible feelings towards their partner and just wanted to get the hell out, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away after the break. Sharon shares how one of her shows took a turn after she stepped away and betrayed memories of the unforgettable Carrie Fisher. Okay, be right back. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. So my youngest son, Sully, is that very active age. He's a toddler. He doesn't walk. It's more like he launches. And recently during a routine diaper change, he wriggled out of my grip, stood up mid change and just, you know, just walked away like a tiny little boss with half his diaper still attached to having a baby who's always on the move is, listen, it's a lot of fun, but it's also a workout. And when you've got a little mover, you need a diaper that actually moves with them. That's why we use Huggies Little Movers. They've got up to 100% leak proof fit. And I love That I can choose between the double grip strips or the new Huggy Fit360 waistband. Both options keep the diaper snug, secure, and right where it should be, which is over the little bum bum. No matter how many laps around the house Sully does before br breakfast, I know his diaper is going to stay put. Huggies little movers made with double grip strips or with new Huggy Fit360 waistband. So your mini me can keep moving like you Huggies. We gotcha, baby. This summer, I'll be spending a lot of time in New York City working on Shakespeare in the park, which I am so excited about. But it also means I'll be away from home and Justin will be juggling the kids and the home Ford, which is hectic enough without also having to worry about home security. That's why we use Simplisafe. We've got the full setup. Cameras, sensors, 247 monitoring. So whether I'm backstage in Central park or Justin's doing bedtime back home, we both know the house is protected. Simplisafe's professional monitoring team is amazing. If something suspicious happens, they can talk through the camera trigger lights and even alert the police before anything bad happens. No contracts, no hidden fees. Monitoring starts at about a dollar a day and there's a 60 day money back guarantee. Visit simplisafe.com Jesse to claim 50% off your new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's S I M P L-I S A F E.com Jesse. There's no safe like Simplisafe. And we're back with more dinners on me. I really love divorce. I. I mean, I love Sarah Jessica Parker. So, you know, any opportunity to see her do anything.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And also it was very exciting. I'm sure there might have been, I assume maybe there might have been a little bit of, I don't want to call pressure, but expectations since this was the first kind of big thing she had done after sex in the city.

[Sharon Horgan]

Oh, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But divorce was, I thought so, so wonderful. And it was so refreshing to see her in a different light. But also, you know, your writing, it's interesting because if you look at both pulling and then you look at catastrophe, you could tell that it's the same thread, but it's such a different color.

[Sharon Horgan]

It is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then with. If you pull that into divorce, it's, you know, the same thing. It's like there's that wit still there and like a very interesting perspective on. On a failing marriage.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And, you know, I did watch it with my. My husband, and I know what you're saying, like, it's sometimes, like, uncomfortable to watch because you don't want to watch a failing marriage when you're in the early years of your own. I'm now at an age where I've been married long enough that people who have gotten married after me are now getting divorced.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And there's a piece of me that feels so happy for them. I mean, I do feel happy for them. I mean, I'm obviously sad that the relationship didn't work out, but I'm like, you know, you got so many more years ahead of you. Like, if this is not working and you're staying in this too long, get out and, like, start again. Like, I don't know. I found it hopeful and, like, ways that I wasn't expecting it to.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah. I have to say, to be really honest, I think the hopeful thing came in after I skedaddled.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Sharon Horgan]

You know, I was only involved in the first season, and. And I love. I did love it very, very much, but I think it took on a life of its own, and I think it was sort of really important for, you know, the writers to take it in that direction because it couldn't keep sort of pounding that awful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Were you happy with how it went on?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I was happy that it went on. I mean, I was. I was kind of like, you know, I was working on Catastrophe at the same time, and it was a crazy time, and I think I felt a little out my depth. You know, it just felt so different from making our little six episodes of, you know, me and Rob, it was just the two of us, whereas suddenly you're just part of a huge machine. And also, I was, you know, away from home, and, you know, I was happy to leave because of that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you feel like it was ironic that you were on the brink of, like, making that big change in your own life, too, or was that something.

[Sharon Horgan]

I mean, the thing is, like. I mean, I love writing about certain stages of life rather than specific events. You know, I mean, like, I've written about being single and, you know, lost in London and unhappy and early marriage and parenthood and deep sort of motherhood. And now I want to write about this particular time in our lives, which is, I don't know for you, but I'm finding it fascinating and interesting but really difficult. But the world is such a difficult place to be, you know, and it's so much harder to just sort of, you know, leave home and just get on with stuff and you know, so your kids stick around longer and you know, if you're lucky, you have your parents to be thinking about. And it's just an incredibly interesting full time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's tricky and this age is tricky. I know. You know, I lost my mom last November and I think you lost your dad not too long ago.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, the February before. Sorry, the January before.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's this age where, you know, your parents are at that age where, you know, they're, they're not gonna be around for that much longer. And losing a parent, you know, you really, it really does sort of feel like there's a, there's a, an era passing and like I am now in this, another chapter of my life where like, oh, I'm. It's now my turn. Like I'm on that treadmill that my, my mom was on.

[Sharon Horgan]

I totally, totally agree. It's. It's weird. Something sort of shifts. Everything has changed for me in terms of like, looking after myself, you know, constantly getting checkups and, you know. Yeah, I want to, you know, be healthy and stick around for as long as possible and. But then the other thing I do is. And I know I did this after I died, it's just I was never great at like just being alone with my thoughts. So I just like work more and write more because, you know, as soon as I stop thinking about whatever characters I'm got on the page, I start thinking about the fact that we're all hurtling towards each other.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I mean, it's. That's very relatable.

[Sharon Horgan]

It comes into your head more now, doesn't it? It's so annoying.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

I mean, actually, though, I don't know if you found this with your little ones. They're very morbid. Young, young kids are.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My 5 year old is obsessed with us. The other day he said to my husband, dada, when you die, can I have your wedding ring? And he was like, well, I think papa will take the wedding ring. And he goes, okay, well then when papa dies, can I have the wedding rings? Do I get both? And it's just because he likes going through our. Like he likes to hold them, he likes going through our wallet, like he's gonna ask for my credit cards next, like when I die. And part of it is because he did seem, you know, he's aware that my mom passed away. And the moment we had that conversation about, you know, grammy Annie's not here anymore. And and like, will I see her again? And like, you know, he still has follow up questions to that.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, but they get very, I mean, certainly my kids did talked about their own, their own fear of death when they were, when they were really young a lot. Which I found terrifying that there would be a little person lying there in bed before they go to sleep freaking out about the fact that they're gonna die one day. Yeah, they're so deep. My little brother told me the other day that he was messing about with his daughter. She's 5, and he was pretending to be a monster. And he had this old shirt on that he did not give a shit about. And he sort of ripped it apart just because he was in the game. And she broke down, she was like crying and crying so upset. And she was like, he asked her what was wrong and she goes, there's memories in that shirt. Oh.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God, that's so deep.

[Sharon Horgan]

It is deep, isn't it?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But true.

[Sharon Horgan]

But so true.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so sweet. Oh, my God. I remember just when kids say deep things and sometimes it's not so deep. Becca wasn't feeling well, so I was going to have to take him to the doctor, but I dropped his brother off at school. And so we were in the neighborhood of his school here in London. And I'm with him walking on the street, and he goes, oh. Becket says, oh, summer just passed by. I was like, that's so, that's so poignant. And like, it's, no, no, no. Summer's just begun. Like it's just begun. Like it's like literally just begun. And he goes, no, my friend, summer just walked by.

[Sharon Horgan]

That's gas. Yeah, I, I was having my house renovated, my kitchen renovation. I had these builders. There was one really, really solemn builder. He came in one day, he was kind of in and out to, you know, to his van, and he said, I work, so I forget. And I was like, well, me too. I, I, I work because I, I want to forget. Like, that's the way I get my head down at work. And he was like, he's going, no, no, I walk because I forget. Like, he was like going in and out because he forgot his tools.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He was just saying he was circling back.

[Sharon Horgan]

I was so convinced we were just having this, you know, I work to forget. Oh, my God, me too. Me too, buddy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, ma', am. I just forgot something.

[Sharon Horgan]

I just forgot my tools, bitch.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's hilarious. Oh, my God. What's happening with Bad Sisters? Is there a third season that you're shooting.

[Sharon Horgan]

Well, I'm working on a new show for HBO that I'm really excited about, so that's kind of what I'm doing, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And that's who you did divorce with.

[Sharon Horgan]

That's who I did divorce with. So it's really lovely being back with Amy and Casey and. But I'm noodling ideas for a season three, if ever there was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Bad Sisters was based on a Belgian, so. Right.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And was it a pretty. I mean, how much did you adapt the original to what Bad Sisters is?

[Sharon Horgan]

Oh, well, I mean, the. The whole premise is the original belongs to the original series. It was about, you know, five sisters. One of them is married to an awful human. They try and kill him. So that. That premise and the sisterhood and all that was the thing that drew me to it. And what changed was kind of everything, you know, apart from that. We kept some of the murders, brought in a few different ones. We kind of, like, the tone was very different. We sort of made it much more about the emotional fallout and about the sisters and less about the murders and. And, I mean, every word changed. But so much of what the original series was about and, you know, all the clever stuff that she figured out, that stage, that was amazing to get to have that as a blueprint, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And, you know, I thought about this a little bit with Handmaid's Tale, too, which was based on a book, and then they. It was so successful that they created many more seasons of it. Obviously, Bad Sisters has a season two. Was that just had to kind of. Was there anything that you were drawing from with season two, or was it all.

[Sharon Horgan]

No, it was all first story. It was all first story, I think, you know, I guess you never know when you create something how it's going to go down. So there's that. But also, you never know if the characters you create are the kind of characters you want to spend more time with. And so there was a sense of me wanting to. Well, Apple wanted to make more, but. But I felt like I wanted to spend more time with those characters. I feel like the damage that was done. Well, to Grace specifically, but to all the sisters, I felt like it was kind of honest to sort of want to show the aftermath, you know, because in a way, it had that happy ending, which is great, but the sense that everything's going to be fine now didn't sort of necessarily sit that well with me. So. Yeah, you know, and once I thought of a story, I kind of, you know, I thought it'd be fun to go again.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you always know that you were gonna be in this one? Cause you're not in everything.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, I did. I did. I love the thought of being in a sisterhood, you know, I love the thought of, like, getting a big bunch of Irish women together. And, you know, I mean, there's some things that I've, you know, created or produced that I've just never thought for a second that I would be in. And I've had people ask me why I'm not, and I. I don't even know if I could ever even give a good answer. But I know the ones. I. I know that feeling of when I want to be in it. You know, don't know what it is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you know which role you wanted to play?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's Eve, right? Eve. Eve, yeah. Yeah. What does it mean for you to, like, create things in your home country?

[Sharon Horgan]

It's. It's the best. It's honestly, like, the best experience of my creative life so far because. And the fact that it went down well, because if we'd have done it and it hadn't gone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm from Albuquerque, and, like, we love Breaking Bad, but also, Albuquerque is like. Does it have to be about meth? Like, you know. You know, it's like, we love that it's a huge hit and, like, critically and, like, break my. It's about meth all the time.

[Sharon Horgan]

Oh, I was so. I was so nervous. I was so nervous.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Irresponsibility.

[Sharon Horgan]

Okay. Huge. And I just wanted to get it right, and I wanted it to be, you know, the Ireland that I know and not, like, you know, you know, not the sort of diddly eye Ireland or the, you know, that sort of overly romanticized, kind of sweet green aisle and, you know, just getting. Just making it feel sort of real and authentic and to get the voices right and to show it off, like, to make her look pretty and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

You know, But Irish people were great about it. They loved it. It was such a. Such a buzz. But even when I. When I made Catastrophe, they loved the Irish stuff that I did in it. You know, they loved the sort of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, there was that great thing about you naming your child that your husband. Can't say.

[Sharon Horgan]

And Carrie Fisher called her moron. Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And also, gosh, I mean, the fact that you got to be with Carrie Fisher.

[Sharon Horgan]

I know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What a gift.

[Sharon Horgan]

I know. Yeah. I get that all the time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

Especially that last season, just that we hung out and had chats and, like, that. I really got the opportunity to Know her, I was so hugely grateful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

The fact that she came and did our tiny show is, like. Was just beyond.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I think a lot of people would have done your tiny show.

[Sharon Horgan]

Well, thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

People like you a lot. I was gonna say I had never been to Ireland until I shot Cocaine Bearer. We shot Cocaine Bear in Ireland, and I spent.

[Sharon Horgan]

You shot that in Ireland? That's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I loved it so much, and I had a great time there.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I.

[Sharon Horgan]

The best.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Definitely want to go back, but Keri Russell, who was the lead of the film, would go and jump in the sea.

[Sharon Horgan]

The forty foot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah. And she's like, you have to come with me. You have to come with me. But I chickened out. I never got to do it. But I love that that's such a important part of Bad Sisters. But also, there's something sort of, like, in those scenes when you all are in the water together, there's something sort of like backroom mafia about it all, too.

[Sharon Horgan]

That's exactly it. That's why the decision to sort of bring the 40 foot into it was because when I was going, when I was in Dublin and Wicklow and all around those areas looking for locations, I took a jump into the 40 foot. And first of all, you freeze your tits off. I don't know what it is about that, but I noticed that there were all these older women there because loads of older people go there to swim. Because, you know, it's like a kind of, like, elixir of life kind of thing. Honestly, loads of old men and old women every day go down and do the dip and get out. But they're all just like. I jumped in and I was like. And they were all just, like, treading water, chatting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

And the swell and the sound of the waves. I was just like, this is a great place to plot a murder. Like, the sisters should be having these conversations. Conversations here. This is where they should, like. This is where they should make those terrible decisions.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, there's got to be a moment when you're, like, in. In the water, you know?

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

In your home country with this group of brilliant actresses, and you're like, I cannot believe that this is my life.

[Sharon Horgan]

Yeah. But that is. That's. That's great, like, isn't it? Imagine if you weren't doing that. Imagine if you were just, like, blase about it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Sharon Horgan]

I mean, obviously there's times when you're tired and, like, not into it, but for the most part, I still get like mad glee and pleasure. It's really special. We're very spoiled.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I am. So it's really thrilling meeting you. I just have been such a fan for so long. I really look forward to everything you create and I cannot wait to to see what's next. And you know what? Dinner's on Me. I got this. Thanks for coming. I adore you.

[Sharon Horgan]

Love you too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinner's On Me was recorded at Marito in Hackney, East London. Next week on Dinners On Me. You know her from the Great British Bake off and from her numerous novels. It's Pruleath. We talk about my recent stint on the Great American baking show Summer special out on Roku soon. And we get into Prue's childhood in South Africa and the unexpected backstory of her first marriage. Let's just say there's some juicy scandal there. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click try free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer for this episode in the UK is Charlie Murrell with production support from Matias Torres Soleil. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hansdale Sheet composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold turkey always. It's juicy. It's flavorful, full. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master Ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow, smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce thin sliced tomato and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted. Thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care, because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head. Committed to crafts since 1905.