Shoshana Bean — On Taking Over As Elphaba In Wicked And Owning Mother Roles On Stage

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode: Shoshana Bean — On Taking Over As Elphaba In Wicked And Owning Mother Roles On Stage

Date: April 28, 2026
Location: Miriam (NYC, Upper West Side)
Guests: Jesse Tyler Ferguson (host) and Shoshana Bean (guest)

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and lively episode, Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down at Miriam in New York City with Broadway powerhouse Shoshana Bean. The conversation flows over Mediterranean breakfast as they chat about career-defining moments—especially Bean’s storied Broadway run, from taking over as Elphaba in Wicked to her recent “mother roles” on stage, her unexpected backup gig for Michael Jackson, and the challenges and revelations of forging one’s own path in both musical theatre and the music industry.

The episode strikes a candid, warm, and humorous tone, revealing anxieties, industry insights, resilience, and the value of risk-taking as artists reach new stages of their careers. Notable moments include Bean’s behind-the-scenes account of the infamous baton-pass from Idina Menzel in Wicked and her thoughts on “motherhood” roles. The conversation is peppered with memorable stories, laughter, and the authenticity of two long-time friends catching up in their creative home city.

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Key Topics & Discussion Highlights

1. Setting the Scene and Shared History (03:18–10:05)

• They reminisce about arriving in New York City during the 1990s and their early careers working in neighboring Broadway theaters.
• Jesse describes the ambiance at Miriam and the personal connections to the location, linking it to Shoshana’s two decades on Broadway.

  Jesse: “Miriam’s been a staple for 20 years in New York City, and Shoshana’s been a staple on Broadway for 20 years. So I thought this would be the perfect place to catch up with my old friend.” (03:08)

2. Performance Anxiety and Taking Big Swings (05:20–08:57)

• Jesse confesses his anxiety dreams and fear of failing expectations as his career progresses, prompting a discussion about the pressure to keep exceeding one’s own legacy.

  Jesse: “I do feel like if I’m not feeling nervous about something, then it’s probably not the right thing to be doing or it’s safe.” (08:49) Shoshana: “May you always [feel that], because at your level of success at this stage in your career, that there are still things that terrify you.” (07:09)

3. Shoshana’s Musical Journey: Early Influences & Superpowers (10:21–12:59)

• Shoshana explains her passion for soul and R&B, setting herself apart in musical theatre, and the challenges of staying true to her style in a field rooted in tradition.

  Shoshana: “How do I set myself apart? ... For me always: how do I be different than all these incredible women?... It really was for me always: how do I set myself apart? How do I be different than all these incredible women?” (11:52)

4. Shoshana’s Wild Backup Singer Story & 9/11 (16:52–19:34)

• In a jaw-dropping reveal, Shoshana details singing backup for Michael Jackson’s 30th anniversary concert just before 9/11—a life-altering rollercoaster from euphoric high to national tragedy.

  Shoshana: “The second night was September 10, 2001… How do you go from like the highest high of your whole life… to 24 hours later… everything changed?” (18:23)

5. The Legendary Wicked Transition: From Standby to Star (20:50–29:41)

• Jesse and Shoshana break down in detail the infamous moment when Idina Menzel was injured just before her last performance, and Shoshana was thrust into the role with almost no warning.

  Shoshana: “They just slapped the paint on, slapped the thing on, and I popped up, and I go on for the last Fiyero… and take the bow, which felt ludicrous. And the whole cast is, like, hysterical.” (22:25)

• Shoshana discusses her mixed feelings—feeling like she was “taking” something from Idina despite the support from the community and audience.

  “It also felt horrible… I knew I was like, this audience is just gonna hate me. And it was the complete opposite.” (25:06) “I can’t let this woman not take her final bow after… you live for that last weekend… she was robbed of that.” (28:29)

6. Coping with “What Comes Next” After Wicked & Moving to LA (30:54–35:18)

• Shoshana describes feeling adrift after reaching a career summit, her move to LA, and the stark realities and freedoms of independently running her own music career.

  “After Wicked… what do you do after that? It was like a huge dream come true… Sometimes when you have a dream come true, you’re like, whoa, this is what it is… It’s hard to have a role of that size and have no life.” (30:58) “Now I look back and I’m like, thank God [I did my music independently].” (33:42)

7. Waitress, Friendship, and the Power of Community (37:26–39:05)

• Jesse shares that Sara Bareilles called him to vet Shoshana before offering her the lead in Waitress; they both reflect on their late friend Gavin’s role in their connection.

  Jesse: “She is not only one of the most talented people I’ve ever met in my entire life, but she is the kindest person and… the hardest worker.” (38:00)

8. “Mother” Roles and Internal Tension (39:30–42:39)

• Shoshana opens up about her resistance to being typecast as a “stage mom” and whether it signals her next phase in theatre, even as she’s drawn into meaningful roles like in Hell’s Kitchen and Lost Boys.

  Shoshana: “I’m not a mother in real life… I do love being able to… make these kids my own. But it’s a challenge because it means aging, and it’s an ego thing. And is this all that’s left for women of my age?” (41:00) “There was something that was louder than my head that made the decision… My heart was tugging me toward this kid, LJ, who’s playing the star, you know, my son, the star of the show.” (41:44)

9. On “The Lost Boys” Musical, Outsiders, and Allegory (43:04–44:32)

• They discuss the new Lost Boys musical and the ways in which the story is more than a vampire film—it’s an allegory for being an outsider. Shoshana shares an anecdote about the film resonating with LGBTQ+ audiences during the ‘90s.

  Jesse: “For me it’s a coming of age film… and the vampires… it’s a metaphor for, you know, being an outsider and trying to fit in.” (43:04) Shoshana: “My stepbrother’s Hebrew school teacher… played them the movie to talk about being othered and feeling like he identified as a gay man with the vampires. That’s how society made him feel.” (43:30)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On risk and anxiety:

  Jesse: “If I’m not feeling nervous about something, then it’s probably not the right thing to be doing.” (08:49)

• On the Wicked emergency:

  Shoshana: “They just slapped the paint on, slapped the thing on… and I popped up, and I go on for the last [scene]… and take the bow, which felt ludicrous.” (22:25) “It was the best possible thing… because I can’t let this woman not take her final bow after everything she put into something to originate it…” (28:29)

• On creative persistence:

  Shoshana: “Every next part, ‘This is gonna be the one that moves the needle.’ …But it has been—fucking, like, not even brick, but, like, pebble by pebble building this… and it is beat by beat.” (36:36)

• On typecasting and motherhood:

  Shoshana: “I just also am like, is this all that’s left for women of my age? Should we just resign to playing moms? There’s more—like, I’m not done.” (41:00)

• On art’s power for outsiders:

  Jesse: “For people who are feeling other, they can look at something like that and identify with it. But it’s also… almost like a secret. Like the movie is speaking to you in a secret way.” (44:17)

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Timestamps by Segment

• 03:18: Reconnecting in New York, career beginnings.
• 05:20: Performance anxiety, risk-taking.
• 10:21: Early musical inclinations, soul/R&B influences.
• 16:52: The Michael Jackson story and its post-9/11 context.
• 20:50: Wicked: standing by for Idina, emergency takeover.
• 28:29: Handing the final bow back to Idina, living for “that last weekend.”
• 30:54: Leaving Broadway, the challenge after hitting a dream role, moving to LA.
• 33:42: Self-producing music, learning independence in the music industry.
• 37:26: Getting cast in Waitress, friendship circles, and mentorship.
• 39:30: Taking on "mother" roles, grappling with age, ego, and meaningful work.
• 43:04: Lost Boys musical—art, allegory, being an outsider, and acceptance.

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Final Thoughts

This episode delivers an intimate and revealing conversation, spanning from backstage Broadway drama to personal struggles with relevance, creativity, and change. Jesse and Shoshana’s friendship infuses every exchange with trust and candor. Fans of musical theatre, artists at any stage, and anyone interested in how creative risk and resilience shape a career will leave inspired—and laughing.

Essential listening for:

• Broadway buffs and Wicked devotees
• Artists grappling with “what comes next”
• Anyone fascinated by the personal side of performing arts careers

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Next Episode Preview:
Joel Kinnaman (“For All Mankind”, “Detective Hole”) on acting in Swedish for the first time in a decade—available early for “Dinner’s on Me PLUS” subscribers.

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Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Spring break planning at our house is. It's definitely an adventure. Our kids have very strong opinions and they're always on different sides of the spectrum. Beckett has very strong opinions about the ocean. It has to be a certain temperature and the wind has to be blowing a certain way if he's gonna get anywhere near it. He doesn't want sand on his feet. Sully, on the other hand, he will roll around in the sand and doesn't care about the water temperature. And he, you know, he could be just sitting amongst seagulls and he's happy. Justin and I, we just want to air conditioning and wifi. Honestly, juggling all the details of a trip can be very stressful. And while I'm thinking about our plans, I also start thinking about our house while we're away. And it hits me. Maybe we could list our place on Airbnb while we're gone. It always sounds great, but I don't know if I can manage all the details myself. That's where Airbnb's co host network comes in. You can hire a vetted local co host to handle all the behind the scenes details, managing reservations, guest communications, and even providing on site. So hosting feels manageable even with everything else going on. So if you're traveling this spring, it might be the perfect time to list your space on Airbnb and maybe earn a little extra cash while you're gone to put toward that extra future travel someplace with air conditioning and Wi fi. If you're ready to host but could use a little extra help, find a co [e-mail] host

[Shoshana Bean]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hey, it's Jesse Tyler Ferguson. I am in rainy New York City. Actually, this is the building I used to go to school in, the Ansonia Building. Anda used to be housed. Today on the show, we have my good friend Shoshana Bean. You know her from iconic performances and waitress Hairspray Wicked. She's currently on Broadway in the new Broadway production of the Lost Boys.

[Shoshana Bean]

I'm like, you can't let this woman not take her final bow after. I don't know why I'm getting emotional about it, but like, you lived for that last weekend. I feel like, she was robbed of that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is. Dinner's on me, And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. So today we're at Miriam on New York's Upper west side. I chose this place because they are known for their Mediterranean breakfasts. Think Shishuka's barekas. It's super cozy. I love this place. It's been around in New York for about 20 years now. It's named after the chef's mother, Miriam, who instilled him with this belief that, you know, hard work pays off and everyone should be treated with kindness. And it certainly shows in this warm environment that they've created here. Like I said, it's been a staple for 20 years in New York City, and Shoshana's been a staple on Broadway in New York for 20 years. So I thought this would be a perfect place to catch up with my old friend. All right, she should be getting here soon. Let's get to the conversation.

[Shoshana Bean]

When am I gonna get to see your show?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You can come see True in someone's house, apparently. Yeah. It's done in a Vanderbilt Mansion. And so I was like, we need a spot where we can. It can look like someone where Truman Capote would live, but we don't have to spend, like, money on a crazy set. So I was like, we need to find. We're in New York. Let's find, like, a place that exists that's just, like, rich with history. You walk in, you're like, oh, my God. Where am I? And then we can add, like, couches and some, like, you know, paintings and stuff to make it look like his apartment. So we found this old Vanderbilt mansion on 95th and Park Avenue. It's now a place of worship, but they have this library that they literally. So this is what rich people did back in, like, the turn of the century. They'd, like, go to Italy Umbrio and be like, I like this library. Sure, sure, sure. I would like it shipped to my house. So they'd cut the library out of this building and put it on a boat.

[Shoshana Bean]

As is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

As is. Put it on a boat. In pieces.

[Shoshana Bean]

Recreate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

[Shoshana Bean]

Not inspired by.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, no. Not inspired by. Cut it out of the building. Ship it across the ocean.

[Shoshana Bean]

We are so gross. Americans are so gross.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We don't do this anymore.

[Shoshana Bean]

We steal this from Italy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, do we still do this out of.

[Shoshana Bean]

Now 100%. We do other art.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We do. We do worse things. Yeah, Statues. We'll take that statue, please. Thank you. So that is from so the library I'm in is a 16th century library from Umbrio. But the. The. So that's where I'm performing, in this library that the Vanderbilts were like, we'll take one of those, please. And I. And the house itself is this old Vanderbilt house. So it's gorgeous. Like, from the minute you walk in, you're like, where am I?

[Shoshana Bean]

But it's a church now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's a place of worship. So they have, like, little chapels, but they use it for, like, events and weddings and concerts. There's a lot of concerts that are. I have some friends who. Whose kids had, like, their violin concerts at this place. But the funny thing is, because it still isn't. It's still operating as an event space. We are sort of like. There are moments where I feel like I'm doing the classiest New York thing, and then there are other moments where I feel like I'm doing a high school play.

[Shoshana Bean]

You're doing Godsville off Broadway, because, like,

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

we're, like, literally taking the set out so that they can, like, have apartments for the next day.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yes, yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so my schedule. So that's all to say. My schedule is all over the map. And I do have, like, random Thursday matinees, which maybe you can come to one of those, I will say, because it's mostly just me. Charlotte Darambois has a tiny little part. It's one of my swans, but I have 99.9% of the dialogue. And I have been having. And actually, I want to ask you about this because I have been experiencing. And I don't know if it's like, I feel like it's getting worse as I'm getting older, but, like, anxiety around expectations of me, specifically when I put myself out there and, like, things that are risky. I've had the wildest anxiety dreams the other day. Okay. And I think part of it's because I just watched that Top Model documentary. Have you watched this?

[Shoshana Bean]

No. God, no.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's fascinating.

[Shoshana Bean]

Okay. Like, even if you were never a Top Model fan, like, is it so.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, no, I think it's pretty fascinating. It's just like a moment in, like, pop culture. Like, wow. We. That was a thing that happened. So that was like. I had just watched it, and then I'm in rehearsal for the show, and I have this insane nightmare that I have been cast as a judge on the reboot of Top Model, and I said yes before thinking about it, and then they wouldn't let me quit. And then I got canceled, like, the whole World canceled me.

[Shoshana Bean]

The whole world.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The whole world canceled me. Like, everyone was like, his career is over. His career's done.

[Shoshana Bean]

And it was like, it felt like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I woke up and for a whole day, I was, like, having a panic attack about it because of this fake thing that happened in my head about me being a judge on Top Model. But it was all, like, tied into, like, me having anxiety about doing this thing on stage.

[Shoshana Bean]

I love this for. I love this. Not that you're having anxiety and not that you felt for a whole day that you might be canceled, but I love that at your level of success at this stage in your career, that there are still things that terrify you. I get it. Because I do understand, again, not to the extent that you experience it, and certainly my success doesn't compare to yours, but I do find at this stage of life that there is a weird feeling of an expectation that follows. Once you've had many, many years and have created many, many things. I do feel like whether it's a phantom expectation or a real expectation that history creates when people say your name, then you feel like, well, I gotta at least deliver as much, if not better than the last thing I did when we first got here in almost the same year, when we first arrived here, we had nothing to lose, only things to prove. Right. So. So, like, there's this, like, fearlessness and fire that I now find that I'm like, I have a lot to lose. And, like, do I have any. A lot. Still something to prove. Right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Because when you create a career, it's like, then you sort of have to, like, you have to maintain the fortress that you created and, like, keep the buttresses up.

[Shoshana Bean]

But my point is, you could very easily play it safe.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Shoshana Bean]

And maintain, you know, what people expect of you. And I love that you took a big swing and took a big risk that it's big enough to make you feel anxious and scared. I love that. And may you always.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. I do feel like if I'm not feeling nervous about something, then it's probably not the right thing to be doing or it's. It's safe.

[Shoshana Bean]

You gotta be uncomfy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I agree. I agree with that.

[Shoshana Bean]

I'm so hyped about this. I'm really here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love being here. I mean, we. We did come to New York around the same time, Right. I got here in 94. You got here a little after me, right?

[Shoshana Bean]

99.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

99, yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Hi, Calvin. Welcome back.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Welcome back to us.

[Shoshana Bean]

Glad to have you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This your first time here? I'VE been to the one downtown. Have you been here before?

[Shoshana Bean]

No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. We've been waiting for you.

[Shoshana Bean]

Jerusalem breakfast.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

There she is. Very nice.

[Shoshana Bean]

With a little avocado spread, tomatoes. You have burekas. Very good.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Spinach and ricotta.

[Shoshana Bean]

Oh, I don't have a choice then. I have to have bodega.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's what I was thinking about getting too.

[Shoshana Bean]

It's. It's. I bet it's like. Well, we'll see.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's really, really nice.

[Shoshana Bean]

And hard boiled eggs on the side. I'm a bodega snob, so you guys.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm sure I will.

[Shoshana Bean]

All right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, should I get something different? I'll do the Turkish eggs. Since you're getting breakfast.

[Shoshana Bean]

I'm gonna share. You can share.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'll do the turkey. Thank you.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yes, yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Water. Sparkling. Still.

[Shoshana Bean]

Still. Tap.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know, I'll have some more coffee. Do you want more coffee?

[Shoshana Bean]

All right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I got you another cappuccino.

[Shoshana Bean]

Thank you. Or just a shot. I can pour it in.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I gotcha.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah. Thank you so much. I feel like where we really connected in New York, aside from like probably doing benefits and stuff like that, because we never worked together. No, but you were at Circle in the Square in spelling bee and I was at the Gershwin in Wicked. And so we were across the driveway essentially from each other.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's right.

[Shoshana Bean]

Which even if we didn't see each other or hang it for. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We were in the same building. Literally. Yeah, yeah. No, for sure. I mean, I. You were always just someone that. I mean, we came. We grew up together basically here. I mean, we came at the same time. You. You. I'm confused because I always assumed like you were like, you wanted to do. You had the desire for a music career more than musical theater.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is that. Is that correct?

[Shoshana Bean]

100% correct.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But you went to school in Cincinnati for musical theater.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah. At the time, we didn't have reality competition shows. We didn't have like direct line of communication via social media to label. We didn't have the kind of information. And I couldn't. My parents were like, college is a non negotiable.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, your. Your dad is. Was very. He likes. I love your father. He's so cute.

[Shoshana Bean]

He'll be so happy to hear that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's so adorable. Yeah, he is. Yeah. Did he enjoy, like soul music and R and B? Yes.

[Shoshana Bean]

Music. My dad is like. I think that if he had sort of been of a generation that was encouraged to find and foster their passions and their skills, he probably would have been in music. Somehow, yeah, they all. Their fingerprints of all my parents and their sounds are all knowing I was lucky.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What your current career is now and, like, what you've. You know, how I could tell how that's influenced your voice, like, your songwriting. And.

[Shoshana Bean]

And that was what was sort of my superpower when I got to college, because I thought, oh, well, I bell and I sing legit well. I'm with Kristy Cates and Leslie Kritzer and, like, all these monsters. So I'm like, well, I know that I have this sort of, like, love of soul and R and B. Like, maybe. Maybe that's gonna be the thing. It really was for me, always, like, how do I set myself apart? How do I be different than all of these incredible women? And that was always sort of. So I think that it was in college that I was like, I'm gonna lean into this. And of course, it got me in trouble all the time. What really got me in trouble was never an intention to be irreverent or, like, disobey the rules. It literally comes out of me as a different moment, as an actor would come out of you. Do you know what I mean? It's grounded in something grounding to what's happening in the moment, what's coming out of you, what your co stars, what the people around you are giving you. And so for me, it comes out that way in. So it was as hard to maintain the black dots on the page, you know, what was written in the ink as it is to not, you know, take a different take on a line.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Shoshanna shares what it was like performing as a backup singer for Michael Jackson at Madison Square Garden. And we get into her stepping into the role of Elphaba in Wicked after Idina Menzel's injury after a stage mishap. Okay, be right back. I am always trying to cook more at home. The one thing I do know is if you start with really good ingredients, everything just gets easier. That's exactly why I love Wild Alaskan Company. They deliver wild caught, perfectly portioned seafood straight to your door. And it makes cooking fish at home feel so incredibly easy. What sets them apart is that everything is 100% wild caught, never farmed, no antibiotics, no GMOs, no additives. Just really high quality seafood that you can feel really good about eating. It's also frozen right off the boat to lock in flavor and texture. And everything is sustainably sourced from Alaska. My current favorite is their sockeye salmon. It has this gorgeous vivid red color and such rich flavor that it barely needs anything. The other night, Justin was showering me with praise about this salmon that I made for him. It was so amazing. It's the best he's had in so long. I didn't tell him. I just sprinkled on a little salt, olive oil and lemon juice that that was it. It was just the really great fish that was a star. Although I do have very nice pan sear, if I do say so myself. So I did that part and if you're trying it for the first time, there's no risk. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company will give you a full refund, no questions asked. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wild alaskan.com/jtf for $35 off your first box of premium wild CA seafood. That's wild alaskan.com JTF for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. If you're a small business, the right hire can be make or break. It's not just about finding someone talented. It's about finding someone talented who also gets it. Someone who understands your needs and actually makes things easier, not harder. If I had to hire someone tomorrow, which I don't, thank God, but if I did, I wouldn't want to waste time sorting through a pile of resumes from people who don't really understand what we do. I'd want to reach the right people right away. And that's why I'd use Indeed Sponsored Jobs when you need the right person, not just another CV that is a job for Sponsored Jobs. Sponsored jobs posted directly on indeed are 95% more likely to report back a hire than a non sponsored job and join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates who check all your boxes. Less stress, less time, more results. When you need the right person to cut through the chaos that is a job for Indeed Sponsored Jobs and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsor job credit to help your job get the premium status it deserves@ Indeed.com podc just go to Indeed.com podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Dinner's on me. Indeed.com podcast terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way with Indeed.

[Shoshana Bean]

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[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And we're back with more dinners on me. What were you doing in that time? Were you going to open calls?

[Shoshana Bean]

I sang back up for Alice Ripley during that time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, so not.

[Shoshana Bean]

So I sang back up for Michael Jackson during that time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Were you sang back up for Michael Jackson?

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, wait, wait. No, we're not moving on from that.

[Shoshana Bean]

I'm sorry. Leader of the pack. We should.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait. What? I didn't know this.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

When did that happen?

[Shoshana Bean]

That would have been 2001 for his 30th anniversary concert at Madison Square Garden. So we rehearsed for like two, three weeks at Chelsea Piers.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Shoshana Bean]

Two night event. The J5 came back together. That's the Jackson 5 for youngsters. Whitney, Ray Charles.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh my God.

[Shoshana Bean]

Usher, Brittany NSync, Destiny's Child, Gladys Knight, Jill Scott. But it's funny because I've since become friends with Usher and I was like, bro, I have our rehearsal tapes from that day up in like a little like now if you go do an event at Chelsea Pierce, they'll put you in like a little room.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes.

[Shoshana Bean]

As your dressing room. And it was me, Luther, Usher, the rest the of of the backup singers and a pianist like rehearsing up in those little rooms. And I recorded everything and I was like sent it to him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wait, I sure knew the.

[Shoshana Bean]

They sang a duet. They sang man in the Mirror together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Got it.

[Shoshana Bean]

But so this happened. It's a. Was a two night event. It was televised. Like I think you can see it on like YouTube or something. But there was the first night which was like levitating. And then the second night was September 10, 2001. And I remember leaving Madison Square Garden and seeing Usher drive away in a limo out those stretch limos that we used to use out the roof. Like, just like. It was just like the. It was the greatest night that anyone had ever experienced. And I went home and went to bed because I had to get up the next morning to go to my office job and my alarm went off and it was like, stay in your homes. They're advising you. You don't get on the train.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where were you living at that time?

[Shoshana Bean]

In Astoria.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Shoshana Bean]

And my roommate was Clacy Miller now Klacy. Jude. And I was like, what is going on? And she's like, I don't know. But your parents called a couple times to see if you were okay. And I was like, did you turn on the news? Do you think we should.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Turn on the news. And, like, we could see it from our apartment. We had a really great view of the city and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, same.

[Shoshana Bean]

We could see it. And that was like the one of those weird moments in life where you're like, everything changed. How do you go from, like the highest high of your whole life? It would took a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's wild.

[Shoshana Bean]

How many, like 24 hours to. To two days for it to settle in? What actually had just happened? Like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Nothing made. It didn't. It didn't make sense.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

We've never seen anything like that. Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Incredible.

[Shoshana Bean]

Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What's this situation? Some pita. Okay.

[Shoshana Bean]

You know, extra love.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. And then we have the chop salad here. Okay. This is also our Jerusalem breadstick.

[Shoshana Bean]

Can I. Can I take anything out of our

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

finish with the coffees? No, of course not. Sorry. Y. I want to keep my hands.

[Shoshana Bean]

We are lit, though. Calvin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, why did I say.

[Shoshana Bean]

What did you. Is this Turkish good time?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Where's Aficionado?

[Shoshana Bean]

It's really strong.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Very good stove.

[Shoshana Bean]

And I feel like I have a good. Hi, everybody. Are you guys in charge?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, this is Chef.

[Shoshana Bean]

Ah, Chef. Well, what's your name? Chef Shana. So nice to meet you. My mom is going to be thrilled. I'm meeting a Bodenka.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Chef's is. Miriam is chef's mom.

[Shoshana Bean]

Oh, no way. Is this all inspired by her?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Nice to meet you. Thank you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you so much. Happy to be here. Thank you. This is incredible.

[Shoshana Bean]

Thank you. Do you want some boreca?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I want to try it. Yeah. How is it?

[Shoshana Bean]

It's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Delicious.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah. And I'm a snob about it too, and.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Cool.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I know you've talked about this at nauseam, but we're going to talk about it.

[Shoshana Bean]

Let me guess, what is it?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Top guess.

[Shoshana Bean]

Wicked.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Of course. So we had Adina on the show too. I mean, who?

[Shoshana Bean]

My fucking legend.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know, but I mean, you were in a very interesting position because first of all, that show, as, you know, like, in hindsight, it's the biggest thing that's happened on Broadway since. And you were there at really the very beginning, and it was Adina and Kristen show, and, you know, it was this phenomenon. And then you were the first person to come in. You and Jennifer Laura Thompson. Were the first two people to come in and sort of take these roles and make them your own thing and, like, sort of start that legacy of people being able to create other versions of these characters. And the way that, you know, you started the show was insane. And, you know, Dina, on the episode that she did with us, I made her. Even though she's also talked about it ad nauseam. You were going to take over the role in a few days, and you had been covering her for a few months. Had you gone on before for her?

[Shoshana Bean]

Many times.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so everyone is there. Like, everyone had come in to see her last weekend of shows. And I love this. I love torturing you. And six minutes before one of her final performances, she is rushed to the hospital. And you're backstage. They're quickly putting you in green paint and throwing.

[Shoshana Bean]

No, no, we were upstairs. The Gershwin is a huge theater, and they have their own rehearsal space. So we were upstairs, me and Megan, because Megan was a standby with me at the time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Megan Helty.

[Shoshana Bean]

And we're with the stage manager, and we're just stepping through, reviewing things, because I'm gonna take over on Tuesday. And again, I'd been on a million times, but, like, you know, we just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, you're about to take over her wheels.

[Shoshana Bean]

Keeping the wheels greased. And they came up to get Kristen, and they were like, you gotta come. Something happened. Then we're like, okay. So we all run down. And then it took them, like, obviously they didn't know what had happened to her. They didn't want to move her. They had to wait for the ambulance to come. And all the while, they're just holding the show. I think they held for, like, 45 minutes. I could be wrong, but I think it was like, Yep. And in my mind, I'm like, there's three minutes left of the show. Obviously, they're gonna just let people go home, Right? And so we held and we held, and nowhere in my mind am I like, I gotta go get ready and go on. And sure enough, at one point, they're like, we're finishing the show. Go. And they got me ready in seven minutes. They just slapped the paint on, slapped the thing on like. And I popped up, and I go on for the last fiyero that pop up. Fiero, there you are. Because I knew you. And take the battle, which felt ludicrous. And the whole cast is, like, hysterical.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They don't know what.

[Shoshana Bean]

They don't know what's happened. And they. They watched it, saw it happen. So what was the audience Like, I don't think they. They didn't know it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you remember this night?

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah, distinctly.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Shoshana Bean]

They had no idea what happened.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So they just knew that Adina.

[Shoshana Bean]

No, they had no idea.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

They didn't know how. No, they just knew. Did they think that you were her?

[Shoshana Bean]

No. Because they have to make an announcement and say for the remainder of this performance, the Royal.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Definitely 90 seconds.

[Shoshana Bean]

But I think they deduced that they would have had to give these people's money back or somebody. Even though it was like more than. And 75% of the show was done. But. Yeah. And I remember going to hang with the crew guys in between being like, she'll be back. It's a Dinah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

In between shows.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah. This was a matinee before the Saturday night show. And I remember going to John Riggins office where they were playing poker and sitting down with the guys and like, I'm like, you guys, whatever. She's gonna be back. It's Idina. She's a. First of all, she's a tank. Like, she doesn't miss shows. And second of all, it's her last weekend. People flew in from all over the. We all knew this. She's not gonna miss. And they're like, kiddo, you might as well consider tonight like your takeover. And I was like, this is. And it also felt horrible.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Like you're taking something away from someone else.

[Shoshana Bean]

And also I knew I was like, this audience is just gonna hate me. And it was the complete opposite.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we return, Shoshanna tells me about her conflicting feeling about taking over the role of Elphaba in Wicked earlier than expected. And she gets into her new role as Lucy Emerson in the Lost Boys musical on Broadway right now. Okay, be right back. Get business done with the new American Express graphite business Cash. Unlimited card with unlimited 2% cash back on all eligible purchases. Unlimited 5% cash back on flights and prepaid hotels booked through American Express Travel online. And a flexible spending capacity that can grow with your business. You'll have the confidence to keep building. Apply today and earn a welcome offer of $1,500 cash back after you spend $50,000 in qualifying purchases on your new card within the first six months of card membership terms apply. Learn more at Go Amex Graphite.

[Shoshana Bean]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You know those friends who support your

[Shoshana Bean]

preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you Find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode is brought to you by Ferrero. Soccer's biggest stage is approaching, and Ferrero is making it easy to go all in. Pick any two Ferrero brands, from Kinder Bueno to Ferrero Rocher, and you could win the one million dollar grand prize, plus an exciting range of daily and weekly prizes. Don't miss your shot. Official rules apply. Learn more at go all in and win.com. And we're back with more dinners on me. From how I remember it became news very quickly because it was, you know, the show was so big and her

[Shoshana Bean]

leaving happened like that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No. And, and her leaving was such a big deal. And the fact that it was cut so short and so kind of. And it's such an insane way. I just feel, and this is what I love about Broadway. The theater community comes together in ways that, like, you never expect it to. And there's such generosity of spirit. And so I. It doesn't surprise me when you say that, like, you're met with nothing but love.

[Shoshana Bean]

But that wasn't the theater community. That was fans of the show and Adina who came from, you know, people who were like, what the.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Who is this?

[Shoshana Bean]

Who just, like, took the ride and

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

we're like, yeah, it's wild. And then. And then on her final show when she. This is what I really made her talk about. Cause I was like, I think she

[Shoshana Bean]

was lit on pain.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She was lit on pain. She doesn't remember it at all.

[Shoshana Bean]

She's such a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But she basically, the last, you know, three minutes of the show on that Sunday, that was supposed to be her last performance.

[Shoshana Bean]

From the moment she had, from the

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

moment she had fallen, she walks out in a red tracksuit. And you, who had been now playing the role for a performance in seven eighths, step aside and let her finish the show.

[Shoshana Bean]

Absolutely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I mean, what was. What was that like? Like, what did it feel like to have her walk on stage and feel that wave of love for her?

[Shoshana Bean]

It was the best possible thing they could. I can do because I'm like, you can't let this woman not take her final bow after. I don't know why I'm getting emotional about it, but, like, putting everything you put into something to originate it and like, take that ride and. And you live for that last weekend for like a release and to let People just, like, give you your flowers, and, you know, I. I feel like she was robbed of that, but I feel like it all. For her to be able to walk on and have that last moment, and it was. Was such a great honor, it felt. And so it was a thrill to be able to be like, please. And then it felt weird to bat. I remember being like, someone made me a book of all the pictures of that last day, and you can see me just, like, I don't want to take the bow. Even though I had done the show. It's like, this weekend is supposed to be about her. And I just remember feeling like, yeah, yeah, don't make this in any way about me. I don't. I, like, want it. Her to have that show also.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I remember, like, when I first heard the music, I was like, oh, my God. Like, that's. I mean, she's singing. I mean, she's really singing. And, you know, I mean, when you were talking about, like, Stephen Remus, the musical director, like, you know, wanting you to stick to the notes on the page, like, and fighting against that, and.

[Shoshana Bean]

Well, to be fair, there were certain moments where he's like, we'll. We'll grant you. I'll raise you this if you, you know, like, we negotiate.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, Got it.

[Shoshana Bean]

And there was one infamous time where my left levitator didn't go up. And there was a protocol for that that you unhook and you walk straight down to the lip of the stage and you just deliver the song. And everyone else will sort of like, lay flat on the ground because they're

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

supposed to be below you.

[Shoshana Bean]

You're supposed to be flying. So he happened to be in the house that day, and I unhooked, and I marched downstage and I just ripped the shit out of the end of Defying Gravity. And he was the. Came right into my dressing room afterwards, and he was like, yes, great right thing to do. Never again. And I was like, absolutely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You gotta give me a free pass for not levitating.

[Shoshana Bean]

You have to give me a free pass. He was like, yes. Never again. And I was like, you guys, that

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

must have felt so good.

[Shoshana Bean]

I mean, it's like people going crazy. I don't remember.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love that. Like, in a moment of panic, you're just riff. Like, I wish I had that piece of power.

[Shoshana Bean]

It was also, like, anger. Like, it was also like, you know, it's the one moment people come for, and I couldn't give it to him.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, it's not the one moment, but, yes, it is. A moment.

[Shoshana Bean]

It's one of the moments, you know.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God. And after, so shortly after that, that's when you moved to la, right?

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah, right after that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And how did that. What. Where did that decision come from?

[Shoshana Bean]

I just think that after Wicked, where do you go? What do you do after that?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's what I say after every time I see Wicked.

[Shoshana Bean]

After Wicked. Now what?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now what?

[Shoshana Bean]

And also, like, it was like a huge dream come true. And sometimes when you have a dream come true, true, you're like, whoa, this is what it is. Like, it's hard to have a role of that size and have no life. Like, it's. And no one really at the time was sort of like a mentor to me or a source of, like, here's how to create balance and like, have a rich, full life and have your dream come true, but also be happy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

And so to me, it felt like I got to get the hell out of town and get as far away from. Because I didn't know how to say no at the time either, right? And it was always like some reading, some benefits, some workshop, and I just was like, I don't want to do

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

this, but I mean, this, you sort of, you know, in. I mean, my perception was that you did sort of like leave musical theater on that here on this coast and like, came to LA and just kind of what it felt like, sort of kick started a pop career. I mean, like our, you know. Well, you know, a musical, definitely a successful musical career. I mean, and. But I also know for you, like, first of all, you produce so much of your own stuff. I mean, I know you put a lot of, like, your own resources into creating that music. And I mean, was it. Was it something. I mean, I know you had a lot of mentors and there's certainly a lot of. I know a lot of people who are very, very famous and the music world who, like, really respect you and, like, love you so much, who was like, mentoring you through that and who was. Did you have anyone sort of helping you out or.

[Shoshana Bean]

No, I think the. No, I think people would come and go very quickly. Like, you know, one of the first people that was sort of like, the reason that I moved to la was Brian McKnight. I was working with him a little bit and his manager and his label, and that was sort of like the excuse I needed to get out there. But they sort of came and went quite quickly. And no, I think that I ended up doing it myself for better or for worse. And certainly now, all these years Later, I'm grateful because I navigated my own sort of exploration as an artist and my own expression, and I didn't have anyone breathing down my neck and I don't op people money, and I own all my own masters. And I just still see so much yuck in the music industry and so many artists just like shackled and in debt forever trying to repay these advances. And I'm just so grateful that I. It always felt like a curse that I was doing it independently, but now I look back and I'm like, thank God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, in the moment, it was so freedom. It was hard. I mean, I remember going to your Ofarrel concert. That concert blew me away. I mean, that was such an incredible evening of live music. And I know how much blood, sweat and tears you put into it and, you know, money and I mean, I just, every time I saw you, I was like, how is this? How are we not? Like, how is the whole world not just celebrating this? I mean, it's so incredible.

[Shoshana Bean]

Thanks, Pat.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I mean, your songwriting is the one of obviously your vocals, but also there was just like a level of class to what you were doing that just very few people know how to do. The taste level was so high. And I mean, it's why you have so many respected artists who I think truly just love what you do. I mean, because you have the skill, but also the taste level. And I mean, I was always frustrated that more people weren't. That more people didn't know who you were and like, weren't. Like you weren't being celebrated, you know, in the mainstream, as I feel like you should have been. But do you. I mean, I know that when you put so much of your own, yourself and your own resource into something, you're ultimately gonna feel like, you know, it's worth it. But at the same time, like, it's. It's. There's a price that you pay when you do that. I mean, what were those years like for you in LA when you were doing something that you wanted to do so deeply and were so good at, and yet you are always having to sort of self motivate it too.

[Shoshana Bean]

I think that I thought probably in the. At the time it sucked because it was just scraping together, whatever, like it was just making meals out of crumbs, essentially. And I always, I mean, I. Oh, I'm always voracious for more and better and expansion and, you know, so. But I look back on those times and I'm like, God, those are the best. Those weekly shows at Bar Vermont.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

You know, those getting to sort of like, like become a member of the music community out there. The musicians. I learned so much from being friends with these people. And speaking of taste level and like, musicianship and writing and, like, it was such a master class in a crash course. So, like, if I had done my studying in musical theater, moved to New York and sort of like, you know, done the Broadway thing, it was like I went back and I did grad school in LA in ingest music and being around these people and, you know, I. The people that you would hear play with me at those, you know, weekly shows are like the best musicians in the business. And I'm grateful that I know how to do all these things, how I know how to produce shows. I know how to, you know, get the band together. I know how to make an album. I'm so grateful that I know that. I know so many people who are like, like, can't self start because they don't even know how to do it, or, like, waiting for someone else to do it, or, you know, at the mercy of. I just. I'm grateful now, but I can guarantee you that that girl was, like, wildly dissatisfied and frustrated and really thinking. And I'm sure I still do on some level, think that every next part, this is gonna be the one that moves the needle. This is gonna be the one that, like, you know, I'm waiting for, like, that slingshot moment, but every once in a while, I get an opportunity to go. Like, it hasn't been a slingshot. It has been fucking, like, not even brick, but, like, pebble by pebble building this. Like, I don't even know what I'm building yet, but I'm still building. And it is. It is beat by beat.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, you know, you've done this incredible work of, like, taking over for different people, like in Wicked and then Waitress, which you were so, so incredible in. In fact, I don't know if you know this, but Sara Bareilles called me because she knew we were friends. She goes, listen, your friend Shoshana, she's incredible. But is she, like a nice person? Because, like, I want all depends on the dial. I was like. Well, I was like, no. I was like, she is not only one of the most talented people I've ever met in my entire life, but she is the kindest person and she's gonna. She's the hardest worker. So I'm not saying I got you that part, but I definitely, like, was a reference.

[Shoshana Bean]

Thank you. You know who got me that Part Gavin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, sweet Gavin.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I miss him every day. Every day.

[Shoshana Bean]

His pictures are hanging in my dressing room.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My God.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah, you feel. I'm sure you feel him all the time too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I do. Yeah, I do.

[Shoshana Bean]

He's very present.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Annoyingly so.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Annoyingly so. Oh, my God. Sweet Gavin. How did he. Cuz he and Sarah are very.

[Shoshana Bean]

Were very close.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah. He was in the show playing the doctor at the time, and we were FaceTiming, and he was like, oh, yeah, I'm doing the show for a little bit. And he was like, wait, why have you never played Jenna? And. And then it just wasn't a conversation until, like, I think it was like a month later. A month or two later, maybe. They must have been hard up, like. No, I'm kidding. That they were like. It just was a straight up offer. And I was like, an offer. They don't want me to, like, get in the room.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And they called me and I said, just offer.

[Shoshana Bean]

Seal the deal, babe. No, I don't know. Whatever it was. And then, like, you know, it ended up just being, like, such a beautiful experience.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

God, you were so good in that. But it was also, for me, like, I was like, okay, people are now seeing what you can do because you were given opportunity in a way that you had not before. I mean, I do think that such a changing point in your career, and I was so excited that you were back in New York and, like, you would have this. You had this opportunity, and I think that, you know, it was such an exciting shift in your career.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah, that. That. That show broke me open.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah, I can tell. Also, you know, there's something about being an unwilling mother and having, like, that be a part of the story. But then what I find interesting is, like, now, you know, since then, like, you know, with Lost Boys, you're playing a mother. And then also within the Alicia Keys musical House Kitchen, you were playing a mother. Was there. Because I remember when I first got Modern Family and I was like, gonna be a dad. I was like, oh, am I already there? Am I already at the parent roles? Granted, it was like, you know, a dad of, like, a baby. So I was like, okay, at least it's a baby. Like, it's not, you know, a teenager. But, like, am I already there? And I mean, it was definitely a moment where I was like, I had to sort of be like, okay, I have to be okay with this. I mean, what was. Now, listen, in the Hell's Kitchen musical, you were playing, granted, a mother who became a Mother at a young age, but, you know, the mother of basically Alicia Keys character.

[Shoshana Bean]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, tell me about that.

[Shoshana Bean]

I still struggle with it. I mean, being another three in a row after just playing someone's daughter.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right. Billy Crystal's daughter. Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

It was really tough for me because I. I, like you, was like, oh, I'm all right to play a mom. And is this all that's left for women of my age? Am I always. Because it feels like, you know, whether it's an audition or an offer, it feels like everything is mom stuff now, which, like, part of me is so honored because I. I'm not a mother in real life, and I know that. That I have a maternal energy, and I do love being able to sort of like. Like, you know, I know that's a superpower to utilize in these situations, and I do fall so deeply in love with these children and sort of, like, make them my own. But it is. It's a. It's a. It's a challenge because it means aging, and it's an ego thing. And I just also am like, is. Is this all that's left for women of my age? Should we just resign to playing moms? There's more. Like, I'm not done. And so part of me was like, I'm not doing Lost Boy. I'm not doing another mother role. And there was something that was louder than my head that made the decision. You know, my heart was just. My heart was tugging me towards working with Michael. My heart was tugging me towards working for three dudes we grew up with Jimmy and Patrick and Marcus. And, like, my heart was pulling me towards this kid, lj, who playing the star, you know, my son, the star of the show. And, like, the music, it just was like, there's something else that you don't logically know yet. You need to be in the. In this room with these people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You had something to say about it?

[Shoshana Bean]

Well, I didn't know that yet, but I knew that, like, again, it was just something I couldn't explain. I just was like, everything in my body is like, this is a yes. While everything in my mind was like, this is not the. This doesn't make sense as the next thing. But I'm glad that I listened to my. To my body and my heart because I have had such a beautiful experience these past six weeks. It's just. Or two months, I guess, now.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you see the film?

[Shoshana Bean]

I mean, only when I got the offer.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Shoshana Bean]

Because when I was younger, while I was the world's biggest Corey Haim fan and did not miss a single film of his. I couldn't watch scary movies and this was a scary movie.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Same. I was. I was nervous to watch it. I. I've seen since seen it. But it's so much more than a vampire film.

[Shoshana Bean]

I mean, tell me. I. Everybody has like a different. Tell me why you say that.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I just. Well, I think it's like. It's a. For me it's a coming of age film. I mean that's what I would categorize it as. And I feel like, you know, the vampires, you know, are a. It's like an allegory. Is that the right word? It's a metaphor. Thank you. It's a metaphor for, you know, being an outsider and like, you know, trying to fit in and so interesting. I mean, I'm sure that these are themes that are. You're talking about in rehearsal.

[Shoshana Bean]

No. And it's funny because. Well, I'm not a vampire, so. Sorry to spoil it. So I haven't been a privy to these conversations if they've been had. But my stepbrother was saying that he was. The first time he saw the movie. He went to Hebrew school and his Hebrew school teacher, who was gay in the mid. Early mid-90s, played them the movie to talk about being othered and feeling like he identified as a gay man with the vampires and that's how society made him feel. And I was like, what? I didn't get that when I watched the movie. But it's so interesting.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, that's what's so brilliant about like. I hate to use the word art in a pretentious way and I don't mean to but like.

[Shoshana Bean]

But your legs are crossed talking with your hands.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So we're just gonna let that be really.

[Shoshana Bean]

I'm gonna take it as pretentious art,

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

but that you can, you know, for people who are feeling other like they can look at something like that and identify with it. But it's also. It's like. It's almost like a secret. Like no one else knows about it. And it's like the movie or the piece is speaking to you in a secret. Be like you and I know what this is.

[Shoshana Bean]

That's right.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I adore you so much. I'm so grateful you did this. Do you want to talk more?

[Shoshana Bean]

I kind of want them to have to cut us off.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Bom bom, bom, bom bom bom. Just. MUSIC STARTS PLAYING. This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Miriam's on Manhattan's Upper west side. Next week on Dinners On Me. You might know him from the Killing. He's also on two amazing shows right now for all mankind on Apple TV and Netflix's Detective Hole, it's Joel Kinnaman. We'll dive into acting in Swedish for the first time in over a decade, what it's like to age 40 years on screen and why he's especially excited about what's next in his ever evolving career. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Mitcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode. Hans Dale, she composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

[Shoshana Bean]

Hey Mama, thanks for making all my favorite recipes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi Ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice.

[Shoshana Bean]

Hi Mom. Thanks for all always being by the phone.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hey Mom, Happy Mother's Day.

[Shoshana Bean]

When you ship UPS Air at the UPS Store, your items arrive on time or your money back guaranteed at no extra cost. Exclusively at the UPS store US retail locations. Visit the upsstore.com airshipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS Store and we'll get your gratitude there on time.