Tom Daley – on learning to lose and being changed by fatherhood

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Episode Featuring Tom Daley Release Date: July 15, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In this heartfelt episode of Dinner’s on Me, hosted by Jesse Tyler Ferguson and produced by Sony Music Entertainment, Ferguson sits down with Olympic gold medal diver Tom Daley and Dustin Lance Black, a close friend and collaborator of Ferguson. The conversation delves deep into themes of athleticism, personal growth, fatherhood, and overcoming adversity.

Friendships and Documentaries

The episode begins with Jesse introducing Tom Daley, highlighting their longstanding friendship and Tom's latest endeavor—a documentary titled Tom Daley.

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson [03:01]: “Tom Daley and I have been friends for a few years now.”
• Tom Daley [03:28]: “I watched his documentary last night. It is amazing.”

Tom discusses the documentary's focus on his diving career from age 13 to his retirement at 30, emphasizing the personal and professional challenges he faced.

Impact of Fatherhood on Personal Growth

A significant portion of the conversation centers on how fatherhood has transformed Dustin Lance Black’s outlook on life and career.

• Dustin Lance Black [05:00]: “Becoming a parent was the big thing that changed everything for me.”
• Tom Daley [06:21]: “Your dad was just there to have a good time. It wasn't about a medal.”

Dustin reflects on his relationship with his late father, drawing parallels to his own parenting style and how it influences his children.

Overcoming Bullying and Identity

Both Dustin and Tom open up about their experiences with bullying during their school years and how these moments shaped their identities.

• Dustin Lance Black [19:18]: “Going through bullying was one of the hardest things.”
• Tom Daley [18:37]: “I went to a Catholic school and was bullied for being different.”

They discuss the emotional toll of bullying and the strategies they employed to cope, highlighting the importance of resilience and self-acceptance.

Balancing Athletic Career and Personal Life

The dialogue shifts to the challenges of maintaining personal relationships while pursuing demanding athletic careers.

• Dustin Lance Black [17:30]: “As an athlete, I never really had time for a proper relationship.”
• Tom Daley [24:05]: “My son Beckett is not great about losing.”

Dustin shares his approach to relationships, emphasizing honesty and long-term commitment, while Tom discusses parenting lessons learned from their own experiences.

Return to Diving and Mental Health

Dustin narrates his return to diving for the Tokyo Olympics, driven by a desire to set an example for his son and to rediscover joy in the sport.

• Dustin Lance Black [30:23]: “Diving was my identity. Becoming a parent allowed me to see I was more than just a diver.”
• Tom Daley [31:48]: “Standing on that diving board as the spouse of someone you love and the father of a child…”

They explore the mental shift from viewing diving as a sole purpose to integrating it into a balanced life, enhancing mental well-being and performance.

Learning to Lose and Embracing the Journey

A poignant discussion on the importance of learning to handle loss and the value of enjoying the journey over the outcome.

• Dustin Lance Black [24:30]: “Learning to lose is probably the more important part about sport than it is about learning how to win.”
• Dustin Lance Black [34:33]: “Enjoying the process and the journey is crucial because, as an athlete, you never know whether you're going to win or lose.”

This segment underscores the personal growth that comes from facing and overcoming setbacks, both in sports and in life.

Hobbies and Life Beyond Athletics

Dustin shares his unexpected hobby of knitting, which he adopted as a form of relaxation and mindfulness during the COVID-19 pandemic.

• Dustin Lance Black [43:19]: “I took up knitting as a way to rest and recover.”
• Tom Daley [44:30]: “I saw you make your own Speedos. You made Willy Warmers!”

Tom humorously comments on Dustin's knitting projects, highlighting the camaraderie and light-hearted moments in their friendship.

Future Aspirations and Legacy

Looking ahead, Dustin expresses his desire to incorporate crafting into educational curriculums to promote mindfulness and creativity among children.

• Dustin Lance Black [46:49]: “I want to get knitting and crochet back into the school curriculum to teach mindfulness and meditation.”
• Tom Daley [47:32]: “I love that.”

They discuss their future goals, emphasizing the importance of balancing personal passions with professional responsibilities to create a meaningful legacy.

Conclusion and Upcoming Episodes

The episode concludes with Jesse teasing the next episode featuring Rory Kinnear, promising more engaging conversations about personal and professional journeys.

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson [49:13]: “Next week on Dinners On Me, we’re featuring Rory Kinnear…”

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Key Takeaways

• Personal Growth through Fatherhood: Parenthood profoundly impacts personal priorities and mental well-being.
• Resilience in the Face of Adversity: Overcoming bullying and loss can lead to stronger self-identity and resilience.
• Balancing Career and Personal Life: Integrating personal relationships with demanding careers enhances overall life satisfaction.
• Mental Health and Athletic Performance: Shifting focus from identity as an athlete to a more balanced self can improve performance and mental health.
• Embracing Hobbies for Well-being: Engaging in hobbies like knitting can provide relaxation and mindfulness, contributing to personal happiness.

Notable Quotes

• Dustin Lance Black [05:00]: “Becoming a parent was the big thing that changed everything for me.”
• Dustin Lance Black [24:30]: “Learning to lose is probably the more important part about sport than it is about learning how to win.”
• Dustin Lance Black [34:33]: “Enjoying the process and the journey is crucial because, as an athlete, you never know whether you're going to win or lose.”

Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers a deep and engaging exploration of the intersections between athletic careers, personal growth, and fatherhood. Through candid conversations, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, Tom Daley, and Dustin Lance Black provide valuable insights into overcoming challenges, the transformative power of parenting, and the importance of maintaining a balanced life.

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Join Jesse Tyler Ferguson for more insightful conversations every week on Dinner’s on Me. Subscribe to Dinner’s on Me PLUS for early access and an ad-free experience.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm currently traveling abroad in London right at the moment, which is why so many of my episodes have people with British accents right now. It's amazing here. I love it. And until I need directions or restaurant recs or anything. And I've got no WI fi and sky high roaming fees, which is just. It's not cute. That's why I started using Saily. Saily is an easy to use ESIM app created by the folks behind NordVPN. It gives you instant mobile data in over 190 countries, and you only have to install it once. That means I didn't have to line up at the airport for a SIM card, get scammed outside the train station, or keep hunting for public wi fi signals like it's a rare Pokemon. Seriously, I sat outside of Wagamama the other day trying to get onto their wi fi for probably 20 minutes. I just opened the app, picked a regional plan, and boom. I had reliable Internet from Italy to Greece without switching a thing. Plus, Saily offers private features and 24. 7 support, which makes me feel a whole lot more secure out here. Get 15 off your saly plan with the code dinners on me. Just download the Saly app or head to saily.com dinnersonme S A I L-Y.com dinnersonme Stay connected and don't miss your dinner reservation. Okay, let's be honest. Staying hydrated is the only thing keeping me from turning into a raisin these days. That's why Fiji Water is always close by. Fiji Water really is from the islands of Fiji, 1600 miles miles from the nearest continent. It's filtered through ancient volcanic rock, naturally protected from external elements. And it picks up a unique profile of electrolytes and minerals along the way that gives it more than double the electrolytes of the other top premium bottled water brands. And that soft, smooth taste that I absolutely love. Unlike some other top premium bottled water brands, Fiji's water electrolytes are 100% naturally occurring. And Fiji's water has a perfect balanced 7.7 pH. I have no idea what that means, but I like the word perfect score.

[Tom Daley]

Okay?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And since 2022, Fiji's water's 330 and 500 milliliter bottles have been made with 100% recycled plastic. So whether I'm backstage at home with the kids or planning our podcast recording, I know I'm hydrating the earth's finest way. Fiji Water. It's Earth's finest water. Hey, it's Jesse. Today on the show, I thought, you know, What? I'm in London. Why don't I talk to one of England's national treasures? It's Olympic gold medal diver Tom Daly.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And I feel like queer people growing up compartmentalized very well, because you have to be someone else until you're not, until you're able to be able to talk freely about who you are.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on Me. And I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Tom Daly and I have been friends.

[Tom Daley]

For a few years now. I had known his husband, Dustin Lance Black, for quite some time, and I am so excited that Tom is coming through London. He actually lives in LA right now, but he's coming through London to promote his new documentary, Tom Daley.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

1.6 seconds.

[Tom Daley]

It's out now and it is absolutely fantastic. I watched it last night. It is amazing. Beautifully told timeline of his career from age 13 to his retirement. It's so crazy to call it retirement at age 30. I decided to bring Tom to Bencone in Covent Garden. Bencone is celebrated for its refined yet approachable Italian cuisine, particularly its fresh homemade pasta. Chef Benoit has 10 years of fine dining experience, and apparently this is their.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sixth year of having a Michelin star. So I am so excited to try.

[Tom Daley]

Their pasta and catch up with my good friend Tom. So you're here promoting your documentary, which I got to watch last night. So I. I'm in a show right now at the National Theater and I'm exhausted and I have no time for myself.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Can't even imagine.

[Tom Daley]

Last night we had an early show, which is my dream. We had a 6:30pm evening show last night. 6:30pm curtain.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Wow.

[Tom Daley]

And I was home at like 9pm I was like, this is a dream. So I was like, what am I going to do with my extra time? I was like, oh, I'm going to watch Tom's documentary. It is so fantastic.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, thank you.

[Tom Daley]

I mean, it struck me, though, when I was watching it, because you just. By the way, happy birthday. You just turned 31.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Thank you. I did. I did.

[Tom Daley]

You've had an entire career starting at age 13 and ending, you know, retiring at age 30. You have experienced incredible loss with the loss of your father. You've been at the very lowest of your career and the highest of your career, literally, with gold medals. You have become a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

A husband and a father and you've retired.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I know, it's very weird.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

All in the age of 30. It's like.

[Tom Daley]

It's like a truncated life.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, it's very weird. It was almost like when they Say your life flashes before your eyes. Yeah, it was kind of. That is what. That. What, 1.6 seconds, that documentary is.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah. The title's so brilliant. 1.6 seconds. Because that's how long it takes to do a dive. To a dive.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

But like those 30 years, looking back, and I'm sure filming that documentary, you must have just been like, wow, so much has happened.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. I do think, looking back, sometimes I forget some of the things that I did. And it's also weird seeing myself talk about the different Olympics and how my mindset changes and my perspective shift. And I think, you know, the big thing that I think has changed everything for me was becoming a parent. And that feeling of, you know, realizing that nothing else matters or nothing else matters as much. I think you get rid of worrying about and sweating the little things, and you realize everything is much more like big picture stuff. And I. You know, having that perspective of being able to stand on the diving board at the Olympics, knowing that regardless of whether I do really well or terribly, I'm going to go home to a family, a husband, and my kids that love me regardless. And that's something that's really special.

[Tom Daley]

And what you made really clear in the documentary, when you're talking about your. Your father, I think he must have instilled some of this in you, because I think of competitive sports and I think of, like, those crazy parents who are in the stands and they're, like, way too emotionally involved. Your dad was just there to have a good time.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom Daley]

Like, he does not care if you won. He just wanted you to have a good time. And he was there to have a good time himself, waving his huge flag. He just was there to have a good time. And it wasn't about a medal, which she ultimately did end up winning, but, like, it was about just that moment in time.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like my dad lived to make us happy, and he was at his happiest and filled with most joy when we were. He was an incredibly special human being. The relationship I had with my dad, I see a lot of that now with my kids. And that special connection is just. It was like. I mean, it was one of the hardest things to have to go through. And, you know, at 17 years old and having to go through it very publicly as well in that way, you know. Cause growing up itself is difficult anyway. But then having to do that under scrutiny about what's right, what's wrong, and all of that was a challenge. But, you know, at the end of the day, my dad was 40 and so, like, it's so incredibly young to die. And, like. And, you know, I think about it now, I'm like, I'm 31. In nine years time, I'm going to be the same age that my dad was. And I don't know quite how that is going to feel when I then become older than my dad. And I think when you. When I see footage going back of, like, my mum taking me or my dad taking me to the pool for the first time or going to the first diving lessons and those competitions, like, the age I am now was the age that my parents were when they were taking me to competitions.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And if that was another reason to do the documentary so that my kids in the future, when they look back at it and they see what their papa did. So.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

How are you?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Hi.

[Tom Daley]

Good.

[Dustin Lance Black]

How are you? Thank you.

[Restaurant Staff]

First time here?

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, for me, yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

No, never been here.

[Restaurant Staff]

To give you a rundown through the menu, just very briefly.

[Tom Daley]

Great.

[Restaurant Staff]

So majority of the dishes on the menu, all our mains are pasta dishes. We do have some antipasti as well to kind of break it up a little bit. The antipastis idea is to share, so I would recommend definitely two or three plates to definitely share with. And then for pastas, you can definitely have a bowl each. We also have a dessert menu and then we also have any sort of cocktails, wines, soft drinks or coffee, tea or toffee as well.

[Tom Daley]

Oh, great, great, great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What do you. What are some of your popular dishes?

[Tom Daley]

But I've always loved a fried artichoke.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, yeah, that's good.

[Restaurant Staff]

Artichoke is definitely one of my favorites on the menu. So it's a whole artichoke which we deep fry. It's then season with a little bit of some chive oil, some dill and some sea salt. The romesca sauce itself is a tomato base with some nuts and also some garlic as well. So it's really. It's a cold sauce, but it's really nice. That goes. Also goes well with the potato sourdough as well to kind of just mop up the sauce. In terms of the pastas, a popular one is definitely the silk handkerchief with walnut butter. It's our.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Say that again.

[Restaurant Staff]

Silk handkerchief with walnut butter.

[Tom Daley]

Oh, yeah.

[Restaurant Staff]

Which is just over here. It's our signature dish. It's folded in a triangle and you get five pieces on the plate. So it's almost like a star shape on the plate. It then has ever blanc sauce. We've topped with toasted walnuts and a confit egg.

[Tom Daley]

Great. Oh, my God. And I see you have a new Michelin star. Congratulations. Michelin 220. 20, 25.

[Restaurant Staff]

We've had it now for the sixth year.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Wow.

[Tom Daley]

Congratulations. That's incredible. Okay, let's do the fried artichoke for sure.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

Do you want the potato sourdough?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Sure.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't like.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I feel like a burrata is always the night.

[Tom Daley]

Okay, let's do the burrata for sure. The burrata. I was really drawn to the sporky. Sporky. The spicy pork is what I was trying to say.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, that sounds great.

[Tom Daley]

Tacatelli.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Let's do that one.

[Tom Daley]

The silk handkerchief. And you choose one more, Tom.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, gosh. Why don't we do the gnocchi?

[Tom Daley]

The gnocchi.

[Dustin Lance Black]

The gnocchi, yeah.

[Restaurant Staff]

So the. For starters, going to have the potato, sour and burrata. And then for mains, you have the silk handkerchiefs, spicy pork, and the tomato stretch. Any drinks at all for my menu?

[Tom Daley]

Do you have, like a lemonade or something?

[Restaurant Staff]

We have a fresh lemonade.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, I love that.

[Restaurant Staff]

Fresh lemonade in pasta.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, I'll do that then as well. Why not?

[Restaurant Staff]

Allergies?

[Tom Daley]

No, not for me.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Not for me. I. Everything.

[Tom Daley]

So I met you initially through Lance because I know. Knew Lance before you.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

And I knew Lance because my husband Justin worked with lance on Proposition 8. They worked toward marriage equality together. So I was around Lance when he, you know, met you.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

And, you know, was sort of like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, it was sort of secretive. Like, he didn't want to say who.

[Tom Daley]

It was because we all knew who you were. But, like, you know, we were close enough that he did tell us. Like, oh, wow, that's. That's so interesting. You know, you were.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I know it's crazy now, looking back on it, to think that I was ever in the closet. Like, mainly because, like, I just wish that the world was at a place where you didn't have to think about publicly coming out. And it just was something that people just didn't care about.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Like, but it's. You know, I feel like everybody always wants to know everything, especially in the world of social media and everybody wants to know everything. It's always. I mean, figuring out a way to come out is always a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, you were 18.

[Tom Daley]

You were very. I don't. Fearless about, you know, giving this person your number and you tell this great story about, like, putting your number in his phone and then putting a winky face after it.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

And, you know, like, oh, God, what straight guy Puts a winky face after their number in another fuck man's phone.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I know.

[Tom Daley]

So, you know, it was definitely the giveaway. Yeah, the giveaway. But, you know, and I certainly relate to this because there's an age difference between Justin and I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But were there fears around sort of.

[Tom Daley]

The age difference and just in also coming out and being with someone and it seems like it all sort of happened simultaneously. You know, you came out because of this relationship, which I love.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. Because I met Lance in the March of 2013. So it was just before my 19th birthday. And I at the time had no idea who he was, what he did. He was. When we were at this, at the dinner where we met, he was ready to leave because he had a script due the next day. I was also pause and just tell.

[Tom Daley]

People who are listening, if you don't know, we're talking about full name Dustin Lance Black.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

Oscar award winner for his screenplay for Milk. And you know, he's a brilliant writer and anyway, so that's what we're talking about.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, no, he's a. He's an incredible human being and he is. And he had to leave. Well, he was meant to leave because he had a script due, like really soon. So I was like, oh, okay, cool. Like, we'll see you later. And the main thing that I remember walking into that dinner was, you know, it's going to sound a little bit cheesy, but seeing him in the instantly eyes, like, went to him. I just remember thinking, oh, my gosh, like, who? Like, who is that?

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And then kind of. And the whole dinner, it was that awkward thing of like catching eyes and then like feeling like I got caught, like, looking at him and staring at him. But I feel like when we met, we also connected on so much of a deeper level than I have ever experienced with anyone. We had been through so many of the same things. He had lost, just lost his brother. I just lost my dad, that he had just won an Oscar. And then the downs, like, you know, the high of that. But then like, what comes next? And the same with me with the Olympics, the high of the London 2012 Olympic medal, and then not knowing what to do afterwards. So it was a really tough and challenging, you know, period of my life that I was already having. And he really inspired me to carry on diving because I was ready to, you know, throw in the towel if you like.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I loved hearing him talk about those early moments with you and doing exactly what you just said, you know, really convincing you to that you are the best at what you do and you need to see this through. And it's really lovely to hear him talk about those early days.

[Dustin Lance Black]

It's a special thing when you find your forever teammate and you know really instantly and there were he always makes it so that there is no dream too big. There is no dream that we couldn't work to making a reality together.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break but don't go away. When we come back, Tom opens up about his no nonsense approach to relationships and the surprising struggles that came with being a professional athlete as a kid. Okay, be right back.

[Tom Daley]

Now that Beckett is five and Sully.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is not far behind at three, I've been thinking a lot about school options. I want to set them up for success, but also make sure they're learning in ways that actually work for who they are. That's why I love what K12 powered schools are doing. These are tuition free online accredited public schools for kindergarten through 12th grade. Kids can learn at their own pace, in their own space with the curriculum that meets them where they're at. And let me be clear, this isn't homeschooling where you're on the hook for teaching everything. K12 has state certified teachers trained in online education using interactive tech that actually keeps kids engaged. Plus they offer clubs, social events and activities that make sure students don't miss out on connections. With over 25 years of experience, K12 has helped more than 3 million families. And it might be just right for yours too. Go to k12.comJTF that's the letter K the number 12.comJTF to find a tuition free K12 powered school near you. Hosting dinners on me means I'm often away from home, recording with amazing guests, trying new restaurants and sometimes traveling more than I should probably admit. And while I love every minute of it, it also means leaving the house behind a lot. That's why we use Simplisafe. We've installed their full system, cameras, sensors and 247 professional monitoring. It gives both Justin and I peace of mind when life gets a little hectic. Simplisafe doesn't just record what's happening. It works before anything happens. If someone's lurking around, Simplisafe's agents can see it in real time. Talk to the camera, flash spotlights, contact the police before anyone gets inside. No contracts, no cancellation fees. Monitoring starts around a dollar a day and there's a 60 day money back guarantee if it's not the right fit for you. Visit simplisafe.com Jesse to claim 50% off the new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's S I M P L I S A F e dot com Jesse there's no safe like Simplisafe. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Dustin Lance Black]

As an athlete, obviously, I never really had time for a relationship, so, like, a proper relationship was new. New to me. And I'm one of those people that if I'm going to be in a relationship, why ever go into a relationship if you don't think that it's going to be forever is my thought. So right away I was like, can you see yourself getting married and do you want to have kids? I was very upfront about it because.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was like, you and Justin are.

[Tom Daley]

Very similar in that way because he, you know, I was pumping the brakes early on in our relationship, like four months, and I was like, oh, it's just like, you know, see, I had just come out of, like, a kind of an open thing or like a very casual thing. And that was like, something new that I hadn't done. I was like, that's something kind of refreshing about that. And so I wasn't really, like, looking to, like, like, clarify what it was. I just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I was like, let's just see what happens.

[Tom Daley]

And he was like, I'm fine with this for, like, a little while longer, but then we're gonna have to, like, figure out what you find it.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Restaurant Staff]

This is your fried artichoke.

[Tom Daley]

Yes.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, wow.

[Restaurant Staff]

Burrata with the fried French beans and the crispy shallots, wild garlic and croutons. And then your potato sourdough, which I also serve with some olive oil.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Amazing.

[Tom Daley]

Thank you so much. We share this in common in that we were both bullied in school. I went to a Catholic school, and it was very focused on sports, and I was not athletic. I think kids also could kind of sense that I was gay and other. And maybe they didn't know what gay was, but they knew I was other and I didn't have a lot of friends and sort of that thing like, you know, when the sheep's off by himself, the wolves will gather. Cause it's an easy target. And I didn't know this about your history, but, you know, you were bullied in school.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And not only that, but after you.

[Tom Daley]

Came home from your first Olympics, which was Beijing.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Beijing. Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And you had reached such a height.

[Tom Daley]

And you would think that your. Your classmates and your.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Your.

[Tom Daley]

The people that you were in school.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

With would be celebrating the fact that.

[Tom Daley]

One of their peers had reached the, like, literally the pinnacle of, like, what you could do and as an athlete. And that wasn't the case.

[Dustin Lance Black]

No, it was a. It was a big crash back down to reality. It was. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing. It's like a really, you know, going through bullying is one of the. I guess everybody always says, ian, makes you who you are today and all of that stuff. Yeah, sure it does. But at the time, it really sucks. And you feel embarrassed about it because you never think it's going to be you that's going to have that. Be that person that's going to be on the receiving end of that. And then when it is, you're like, oh, gosh, how do I get out of this, like, cycle? And you kind of just want to run away from everything, and then how do you actually make it better? And to have to do it very publicly in the UK as well, that's just. Yeah, was the. And having to talk about it and, you know, growing up is tough anyway, but then having to figure out who I was as a person, like my sexual orientation, all of that, I just. There's so much that going through it. And now looking. When I was doing a documentary, looking back at it and seeing my younger self just be. I don't know, it was almost. I look back at it now and I almost, like, feel like I was tortured through lots of my childhood in that way.

[Tom Daley]

Same. Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I mean, I don't look back on it and ever think of anything negative about my childhood. I always look back on my childhood and think, oh, my gosh, that was so much fun. I had the time of my life. This was all great. But your brain is a clever thing to be able to, like, make you forget about the things that were slightly more difficult to have to handle.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah. I think it's a survival mechanism that our brains do for us, too, to let us release trauma. The crazy paradoxical thing about all that, though, is in the midst of you being bullied, you then won a world championship.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

It's just.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Tom.

[Tom Daley]

I mean, I can't. You literally, you're being presented with something that says you are on the top of the world.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

And yet, you know, you're also dealing with bullying at school. It's just. I can't even fathom how that must have. How you must have processed that.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. I feel like my coach in the documentary talks a lot about my ability to compartmentalize.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And I think that is something that I still very Much do now with my everyday life. And I feel like queer people growing up compartmentalized very well because you have to be someone else.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Until you're not. Until you're able to be able to talk freely about who you are. I remember being asked a question, like, what do people think at school? And I just remember I. There was one interview. It was an. Like, a print interview. And I just. I just remember I just started crying. And, like, it was the first time where I'd, like. I didn't know what to say because I was like, of course you want to go back to school, and you want your friends to be supportive and, like, you know, and my close, closest group of friends, they were. And they were amazing all the way through it. But it's. It was the, you know, the wider thing of, like, turning up to school and just never feeling like I could go anywhere or fit in without somebody saying something. It was when it became physical that I was a little bit like, okay, like, now this is. I remember I got rugby tackled on a field, like, out at lunch one day, and my. Like, my wrists. I had to put my arm out. So then I couldn't die for a week because I had injured my wrist. And then I was like, well, what am I gonna. Like, I can't just, like, allow that to happen. What happens if that happens again and it gets worse? You know, I never wanted anyone to get in the way of my diving. And that was the first time when it truly impacted what was happening in the pool. And I couldn't keep those two worlds separate anymore.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah. I think you're a little ahead of me as far as your kids in school. But that's the one thing I'm. I'm just so nervous about.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I find with Robbie, when. Now he's at school, I think, you know, they are very much a reflection of how you treat other people.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And I think if. If again, they don't. All their behaviors, in a sense, I guess, are learned by, like, who is able to say what to other people. How do you react if somebody is not doing well? How do you react if somebody's hurt themselves? How do you react when. You know. And I think depending on how the parents react with their kids, they will react with the other people. So, like, I don't think you would have to worry too much.

[Tom Daley]

Right, right, right. We'll have to cross that bridge when we get to. Reminds me of something else that I've been dealing with with my son that your parents have dealt with with you. Is that my son Beckett is not great about losing. Like, we had to take him out of soccer because this idea that, like, the ball is not going the way that he wants it to go and that they're gonna score, like, that's the whole point of the game.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom Daley]

But, you know, he's. He gets a little perturbed if, like, he loses the game. And. Yeah, this is a great part of the documentary of you were winning so much as a kid. I don't know if it was your coach's idea. Your parents were like, they had you compete against the. Basically the adults and so that you would lose, and you ended up winning that, too.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, that was. That was. The funny thing about the world of diving is that it was the one. It's kind of a sport where your size doesn't really impact how well you can perform and do some of the dives. But I think for me, learning to lose was an incredible part of my learning to be an athlete because, like, it's easy to win in terms of, like, the mentality behind that, but it's incredibly difficult to lose. And learning to lose is probably the more important part about sport than it is about, I think it's learning how to win. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Tom shares what pulled him out of retirement for one final Olympic dive, and how a single piece of advice from his coach sparked an unexpected hobby. Okay, be right back. Hey, it's Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Being in London this season has been such an adventure, not just for me, but for my whole family. Justin and I recently packed up the kids for a whirlwind trip to Disneyland Paris. And watching them experience it all for the first time was pure magic.

[Tom Daley]

Of course, we also got to see.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

The Eiffel Tower, which was what Beckett said he wanted to see when he came to London. Gotta work on that geography a little bit. These little getaways are what memories are made of. But as any parent knows, they take planning. And that's why I love Airbnb's co hosting feature. If you're traveling for a few days or a few weeks, listing your space on Airbnb is such a SM smart move. And with their co hosting feature, you don't even have to manage the details. A trusted local co host can handle guest communications, check ins and everything else so you could be present for moments that really matter. Let your home work for you while you're away making memories. Go to airbnb.com host to find out more. Vacation season is nearly upon us and this year, you know, I'm treating myself to luxe upgrades that I deserve with Quince's high quality travel essentials at fair prices. Think lightweight loungewear that's perfect for those long haul flights or premium luggage options. The best part, all Quint's Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. By partnering directly with top factories, Quints cuts out the costs of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quints only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes. I just love that. I've been eyeing their expandable carry on Hardshell suitcase, which comes in four sizes and a bunch of colors. It's just so nice to be able to get an extra inch of packing space in if I need it. I love options. I also just had a tab open for the Nappa leather duffel bag, which for under $200 feels like a steal. For your next trip, treat yourself to lux upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quints.com JTF for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com JTF to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com JTF and we're back with more dinners on me.

[Tom Daley]

Speaking of losing, the first Olympics that Lance came to was. It was Rio, right. And you were at this point, I guess, 22.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes, 22.

[Tom Daley]

And you had, individually, you had a really rough Olympics. Yeah, it was. I don't know if you would consider that the low point.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, 100%. It was the lowest point in my career. And I might even go as far as to saying one of the lowest moments of my whole life. Honestly, it was like when you work for something for four years and you get to the day where it's meant to happen. And it all starts off so well with an Olympic record in the prelim rounds, winning and being like, okay, now I just got to get through the semi final and then into the final and it's all going to be good. And it's going to like, you know, this is, everything's aligning, this is feeling great. I was ready to go out there and win an Olympic gold medal. And that semi final, it just fell apart. No matter how hard I tried, no matter what I did, like, it just was not happening on that day. And I was in complete disbelief that it was even possible that I couldn't, wasn't gonna make the final, like, it didn't come to my house. Oh, no, it'll, it'll work out. Like, even if I mess up my dives, someone else will mess up more and like, it'll be fine, it'll be fine, it'll be fine. And it just, round after round after round after round, it just slowly started to deteriorate to the point where I didn't make final. I completely crashed out the competition. And I was so upset and distraught about the fact, like, I have to wait a whole another four years. Am I going to put myself back through that whole stress of training every day, all the sacrifices to the point where like you go to an Olympics and it might not happen again? So as an athlete, you really have to go into a competition knowing that you might not, but learning to enjoy the ride, I mean. And what do you think was different.

[Tom Daley]

About your mindset in that Olympics in Rio? Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. Well, so, well, going after that competition happened, I met up with Lance outside the pool and he said to me, maybe you weren't meant to win an Olympic gold medal here because maybe your future kid is meant to see you win an Olympic gold medal. And my mentality there was, diving was my identity. Diving was my be all, end all. It was everything I did. It was the only thing I thought about when I was eating, sleeping, drinking, training, whenever it was, was diving. Diving, Diving was my life. And it wasn't until Tokyo happened, obviously it got delayed a year with the.

[Tom Daley]

Pandemic that was the following Olympics, the.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Following Olympics in 2021. It ended up being, and I, I was then married. I had, we had Robbie. I'm standing on that diving board with a completely different perspective of I'm more than a diver. And I think once I got to a point in my life where I was old enough to realize that you're more than just what you do every day and you not to put all of your self esteem and self worth into that identity as a, of a diver. It almost freed me of the pressure and the expectation and the weight of that. And I was able just to for the first time go out and genuinely enjoy a competition.

[Tom Daley]

Standing on the edge of that diving board as the spouse of someone that you love and the father of a three year old.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, you just must have been.

[Tom Daley]

A completely different person, like, just emotionally different person.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And I think, I feel like lots of people will say that becoming a parent will change. Like, I mean, it does. It changes you, it changes your brain chemistry, it changes the way that you think about everything. What decision you make first and how to do it. And I. Yeah, I genuinely think that since becoming a parent, it allowed me to just be really diligent about doing the exact right things so that I could be back home with. With Robbie. And when you're home, there's no thinking about anything else on your own with the kids, because it's chaos. And it's the best kind of chaos because it takes you completely out of your head and thinking about diving and worrying about that, because you've got to be there for them.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, yeah. And then you obviously did so well in that Olympics. I mean.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

You won a gold with your partner, Mattie.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. You know, I always knew that I could. I had to start to come to terms with the possibility that I might not. Because I was getting older, you know, Beijing 2008. I knew I had loads of Olympics ahead of me. I had lots of time. Whereas as I got older, the likelihood of going to another Olympics was diminishing and diminishing and diminishing until, you know, I felt. Felt like Tokyo was my last chance. But once I kind of stopped torturing myself through those Olympics because, you know, in London, in Rio, I wanted it so bad, like, I wanted those medals and to win so badly that I couldn't get out of my own way. And it wasn't until Tokyo, where I finally was able to get out of my own way and allow myself to enjoy it. Because when you're happy and you're enjoying something, it's so much better.

[Tom Daley]

It's like back to the roots of what your dad. You know, it's still it in you, you know, just have a good time. It was never about a medal.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Never about a medal. And when it's never about a medal, you really, truly are able to enjoy it.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Let loose and just like. And I think that was something that. And someone asked me the other day what advice I would give to my younger self, and I actually think it's more the other way around. I feel like my younger self had a completely different outlook on what it meant to do things in everyday life and not care so much about, you know, the. The outcome of things, but enjoying the process and actually enjoying the journey of it. Because, you know, as an athlete, you never know whether you're going to win or you're going to lose. And you. If you don't enjoy the process and you don't enjoy the journey, it's. You've already lost.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where was Robbie watching from?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Canada, actually. Lance was on a Production that he was doing under the Banner of Heaven. He was in Canada filming. So he was out there with my mum and Robbie and, you know, he was.

[Tom Daley]

Did they have some sort of like a viewing party or were they at the house?

[Dustin Lance Black]

It was 4:00am, 3:00am in Canada. Yeah. So my mom and Lance were up and then going into the last round and they woke Robbie up because they were like, you know, he might wanted him to see the fe. So there's a video where Lance sees that I do a good dive and is like, screaming at the TV at.

[Tom Daley]

4 in the morning.

[Dustin Lance Black]

At 4 in the morning. And Robbie is actually asleep on the sofa behind him because he was like.

[Tom Daley]

He's like, what is going on?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Had no idea what was going on. But again, those moments are crazy to have, like, documented forever.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, totally. What was it like having that huge moment, but yet the stands were completely empty. And something that was lovely, that had to happen because everyone was meant to keep a distance, is you and Maddie had to put. Give each other medals, which I thought was really lovely.

[Dustin Lance Black]

It was really special. I think they should keep doing that. It was actually quite special that you got the. To do that. I. Yeah. It was a very weird thing to go to an Olympics where there is no one in the audience. So they had, like 20,000 seats there. They were all empty. The weirdest thing as well is they still did, you know, like, before sporting that, they turned the lights off and they make it like they were still doing that.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, they were like, are you ready? No one's there.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Like, what you talking to? But I do think there's part of it. Matti is my synchro partner in those Games. He'd never been to an Olympics before.

[Tom Daley]

Right, Right.

[Dustin Lance Black]

So going to an Olympic Games for the first time is an incredibly daunting experience. Whereas going to the Olympics for the first time without having that big crowd and that big audience, I don't know if that may have been a good thing. So it was, like, incredibly concentrated and focused and there was no extra, like. But it was. I think the most surreal thing is that the fact that you could literally hear a pin drop. It was that silent. So the reaction to a dive had never been more true because divers will only react well to a really good dive. If it's like a bad dive, you kind of just get a. Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

Hi.

[Restaurant Staff]

Dime me to the clearhouse, everybody.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, this is so good.

[Tom Daley]

We'll move on to the next.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Restaurant Staff]

Yep.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, great. Actually, I want to skip ahead to Paris because that was sort of. I Mean, in some ways, it was a bonus for you because you had decided that you would retire after winning gold.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I thought I was.

[Tom Daley]

You were like Barbra Streisand. You're like, I'm done. And then you had, like, another album in you.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I just felt like I was. Was the. You know, I always said I would keep going until I won an Olympic gold medal, and then I did.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

And I was like, okay, what.

[Tom Daley]

What comes up while you're ahead?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, yeah. And then there was, you know, I took two years off, got to have a lot of. Get to do all the things that I didn't necessarily have time to do when I was training.

[Tom Daley]

Tell me what those things are.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, gosh. Just being able to leave the house and go to events that I, you know, stay up past 8:30pm like, you know, like, go to dinners, went to. I first met gala. Like, all of those, like, fun things that you like. I just would never have been able to take any time off training to go and do. And then, yeah, when it was a year to go to the Paris Games, it would, like, you know, I started to consider. To go back into the. Back into the pool because of my oldest son. He's already. Yeah, exactly. Robbie's already used his token to get me back an Olympic token. Hopefully Phoenix doesn't ask me in a couple of years.

[Tom Daley]

Oh, my God. Yeah, right. So he said he. He wanted to go to the Olympics and see.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, Well, I was in. We were in Colorado Springs because that's where Phoenix was born, and they have the Olympic and Paralympic museum there. And we went. And it's. If you're ever in Colorado Springs, get a go. Because it is really, really quite cool. And having gone through the whole museum at the end, they play this, like, movie video of, like, what it means to be an Olympian and what it takes to be an Olympian. And I got to the end of that film, and I just.

[Tom Daley]

Are you. Are you in it?

[Dustin Lance Black]

No, no, no. But I was watching this about all these athletes and, like, what it meant to be there and how much work and effort, and I didn't. I'm just crying, just thinking, oh, my gosh. Like, that was some of the best moments of my life, being able to travel to seeing my teammates and friends that I had made over the years. And, you know, Lance looks to me and is like, oh, no. Yeah, I know what this means. And Robbie turns to me and is like, what's the matter, Papa? Like, what.

[Tom Daley]

What.

[Dustin Lance Black]

What's. What's going on? And I was like, you know, I just miss. Miss diving. I miss the, you know, being able to compete in the Olympics, because that's what Papa used to do. And he was like, well, I want to see dive at the Olympics.

[Tom Daley]

And I was like, well, you slept through the last one.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, exactly. You slept through the last one. So maybe you have to. As long as you can stay awake, maybe I'll have another go. And he's. And then before I knew it, I was like. I was driving home from the. From the museum, and Lance was like, are you okay? Because you're driving incredibly slowly on this freeway. I'm just, like, in, like, the right lane, just, like, you know, staring in front, kind of like. Like, contemplating life. And. And he was like, I know what this means. And he was like. And I was like, I don't know. I don't know if it means that. And I don't know what to do. I don't know if I should be doing this, and I don't know if I've got time to do this and with the kids, and Phoenix is about to be born and that, and, like, you know, so, yeah, so I sprung that on him with a. With a newborn baby that I was going to try and go back to the Olympics for. For one last go. And.

[Tom Daley]

So how much time did you have before the Olympics when you decided that you were going to go?

[Dustin Lance Black]

A year.

[Tom Daley]

A year?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

And I mean, for many people, a year sounds like a long time, but, like, I. It's really. When you're training for the Olympics, I.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Mean, you would use.

[Tom Daley]

In. In historically, you would use all four of those years that you were off to prepare yourself.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. So I basically started training in the July. I needed to be ready in order to try and qualify for the Olympics in January, because if it hadn't happened in January, it would have been over.

[Tom Daley]

So it's six months of preparation.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Six months of preparation to get to the point of qualifying. And then once we qualified, I said, okay, now this is where the real journey begins.

[Tom Daley]

Okay, so in this point, you are living in Los Angeles.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

First of all, if anyone's even remotely serious about diving, they know who you are.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So, I mean, what was it like.

[Tom Daley]

When all of a sudden, like, Tom Daly's now training for possibly the next Olympics here at our local pool?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, I mean, it was. It was kind of odd, and I was very lucky that UCLA kind of, like, welcomed me in to be able to train at the pool. My amount of training reduced dramatically, and it really gave me a balance between the Training and then life and being able to be around for the kids, because I was only training for a way shorter amount of time than I ever used to. And I think that's something that has, I don't know, allow me to see diving in a different way, that it wasn't the main factor of my life.

[Tom Daley]

I'm wondering if, like, in hindsight, if more of a balance in your younger years and not, you know, focusing quite so much on just like being 24, 7 at training mode, if that mentally would have maybe been healthier for you.

[Dustin Lance Black]

100. Once you get to a certain point in your diving career, especially in a sport like dive, in an endurance sport, you kind of have to keep up with those levels of fitness. But in sports that are kind of like more skill based, it really is about being in the competition as fresh and as focused as possible, not just train, train, train, train, train. And the more you do, the better you're going to get because that's not always the case. So I think that's something that towards the end of my career I got a lot better about and having that work life balance, if you like. And that's where, you know, in it was before Tokyo is in the, like just at the beginning of the pandemic. That's one of the reasons why I took up knitting because I, it was my way of being able to, yeah. Sit still, rest, recover, escape and knitting.

[Tom Daley]

Which I mean, I, I loved, you know, I mean, the camera was always finding you in the, in the stands knitting, you know, during the Olympics that year. And it's something you found during COVID right?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes, something I learned. Yeah. Right. Literally it was about three weeks before we went into lockdown. And it was what made you, what.

[Tom Daley]

Drew you to that? And like, was there someone that you knew that had done it?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Well, Jane, my coach said to me that I don't sit still and I need to find something to rest and recover over the weekends rather than wandering around museums and markets and, you know, explore. Like, be still.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

So then Lance, my husband, said to me, oh, you like? People on film sets, while they're waiting around sometimes will knit as their way of being able to pass the time. And I was like, oh, knit? I was like, well, I mean, I'll give it a go. So I ordered some yarn, some needles, and went on to like the YouTube university and watched some videos and taught myself how to knit. And then there was some. Once I was knitting, there were some other people around the world of diving that also knew how to knit. So then they were helping me out and teaching me, and then all of a sudden, I became obsessed.

[Tom Daley]

I mean, you graduated pretty quickly into some very, like, intricate things. I mean, I've seen you, like, you've made your own Speedos.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

You like.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I've made anything and everything you can imagine.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I feel like one of my favorite things that I make for people as, like, last minute gifts is I've made quite a few willy warmers.

[Tom Daley]

Willy warmer.

[Dustin Lance Black]

For your.

[Tom Daley]

For your wee. Wee?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

For your willy?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, there was one. There was one. I was like. I was like, can I make one of these? And I was like. My favorite thing about the instructions on the thing was like. It was like, oh, you know, willy warmer. One size fits most.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, yeah. I was gonna say, do you have to, like, check his size first?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Like Willie?

[Tom Daley]

Okay. Yeah.

[Dustin Lance Black]

It's a. But, yeah, it's quite. Quite a thing.

[Tom Daley]

That's incredible. Well, I'm. I hope someday I'm the recipient of willy warmers.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah. Okay, I'll make it. I'll make you a woolly warmer.

[Tom Daley]

Thank you.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, wow. Look at that.

[Restaurant Staff]

So this is the spasm pork.

[Tom Daley]

Okay.

[Restaurant Staff]

The silk handkerchief and the gnocchi stratos.

[Tom Daley]

Wonderful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Maybe just some small plates.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

You want cheese? Sure, why not? This looks so good.

[Dustin Lance Black]

I know. There's something about fresh made pasta that is just delightful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Do you cook? I forget.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes, I love to cook. We used to do a thing in London every Monday. We'd do a Monday night dinner club where we'd cook for, like, 12 to 16 people every Monday.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You would cook everything?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, I would do a starter in a main and get other people to bring dessert.

[Tom Daley]

Nice. Do you get pissed off when someone brings you, like, a packaged dessert from, like, a bakery?

[Dustin Lance Black]

No, I'm like, whatever you like. I feel like it's interesting to see who does bring what. Like, if somebody, like, has gone to a bakery and been thoughtful about what they've picked out, or somebody's made something at home, or somebody's just, you know, brought a bag of candy. Like, there's. Yeah, there's a very.

[Tom Daley]

There's times when people bring something that they've made. I'm like, oh, I wish you had actually gone to a bakery. It's not great.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Sometimes it can be a bit hit and miss.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you hope to achieve in the next, like, 10 years?

[Dustin Lance Black]

It's a good question because, like, if you had asked me 10 years ago, I'd be like, oh, to go and win an Olympic medal or in another Olympic medal. Whereas in 10 years time that's not going to be that. I mean, I'm now on. It's not the case now I have to think about goals beyond diving and that's weird for me. I'd love to be able to say that I've. I want to be able to get knitting and crochet and general crafting back into a school curriculum properly so that it teaches kids other forms of mindfulness and meditation that isn't just sitting down and doing breathing exercises. Other ways to be. Learn to be present and away from screens. That's one thing that I'd like to say that's great.

[Tom Daley]

I love that.

[Dustin Lance Black]

So, yeah, we'll see. But and then I also love to do. I just finished shooting a TV show called Game of Wall, which is basically great British Bake off, but for knitters.

[Tom Daley]

I saw you post something about this, right?

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes. So like we, we cut like we're looking for people that wanted to be part of the cast and everything. So, yeah, that's something that I'm. I'm really excited about. I mean, we finished shooting the first, first series and it comes out either later this year or next year or something. But that's something that's so exciting.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, I love that.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yeah, it's fun. It's fun to see what people can create. Sure.

[Tom Daley]

That sounds like it's right up my alley. The documentary. Yes, it's coming out. I mean, I guess by the time that this podcast airs, it will be out.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes.

[Tom Daley]

Where can people watch it?

[Dustin Lance Black]

It's on in the uk, It's Discovery and HBO Max within Europe. And then it is going to be on the Olympics channel currently in the U.S. fantastic. Yeah.

[Tom Daley]

I mean, it's so well done. It's so special. And I just feel very lucky that you shared that with us and obviously the filmmakers who helped put it together. I felt very privileged and grateful that you were sharing your life with the people that have been your champions for so long and fans of yours. And I'm so glad that we're friends and we're buddies and I want to hang out in la.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes. When you're back in la, let's do it. We'll have you over for dinner.

[Tom Daley]

Yeah, I'll cook.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This one's on me.

[Tom Daley]

Dinner's on me now. And then you can cook.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Yes, I will.

[Tom Daley]

And I will bake something to bring.

[Dustin Lance Black]

Oh, lovely. Okay. Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinners on Me was recorded at Ben Konay in Covent Garden, London, next week on Dinners On Me. You know him from Bond films like Quantum of Solace and no Time to Die and from TV on the Diplomat and say Nothing My Here we are co star. It's Rory Kinnear. We'll dive into Rory's awkward meet cute.

[Tom Daley]

With the big Hollywood director, his close.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Connection with the original Willy Wonka and the evolving ways he's made sense sense.

[Tom Daley]

Of grief over the years.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners On Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our producer in the UK is Grace Laker. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode Hansdale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.