WAGNER MOURA — on joining ‘Dope Thief’ last minute and bonding with co-star Brian Tyree Henry

Summary

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson: Episode Featuring Wagner Moura

Release Date: April 29, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson, host Jesse Tyler Ferguson sits down with acclaimed Brazilian actor Wagner Moura. Known internationally for his portrayal of Pablo Escobar in the Netflix series Narcos and his lead role in the Apple series Dope Thief, Moura delves into his recent experiences joining Dope Thief at the last minute, his bond with co-star Brian Tyree Henry, and his multifaceted career in acting and activism.

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Wagner Moura’s Commitment to Authenticity

From the outset, Wagner Moura impresses with his dedication to his craft. Jesse praises Moura's portrayal of Pablo Escobar, highlighting his linguistic commitment and deep character study.

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (01:57): "Wagner didn't just play Pablo Escobar; he basically earned a second diploma in Spanish to do it as a native Portuguese speaker."

Moura explains the lengths he goes to embody his characters, emphasizing research and immersion.

Wagner Moura (25:35): "I researched a lot about him. I learned the language, lived in Medellin, and talked to people to truly understand Escobar as a human being."

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Joining Dope Thief Under Intense Circumstances

Moura recounts his swift integration into Dope Thief, replacing another actor with only a day’s notice. This abrupt change tested his adaptability and commitment.

Wagner Moura (17:28): "They shot two episodes with another actor and then were like, this is not working. They needed someone right away."

Despite initial reservations about the fast-paced environment, Moura embraced the challenge, leading to a profound working relationship with director Ridley Scott and co-star Brian Tyree Henry.

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Bonding with Co-star Brian Tyree Henry

A significant portion of the conversation centers on Moura's experience forming a strong connection with Brian Tyree Henry. Their initial interaction in the green room set the tone for a collaborative and heartfelt partnership on set.

Wagner Moura (21:05): "We sat in front of each other, and I grabbed his hands and started talking about myself. It was such a beautiful moment of connection."

This bond translated into their on-screen chemistry, enhancing the storytelling of Dope Thief.

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Balancing Career and Family Life

Both Jesse and Wagner discuss the challenges and joys of balancing demanding careers with family responsibilities. Moura shares insights into single parenting his three younger children alongside his career.

Wagner Moura (05:15): "I'm single parenting my kids this week. I'm alone with three dudes."

Jesse relates by sharing his experiences as a father of young children, fostering a relatable and heartfelt dialogue about family dynamics.

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Theater and Future Projects

Moura reveals his return to theater after years of focusing on screen acting. He is currently preparing for an adaptation of Henrik Ibsen's Enemy of the People, set to perform in Brazil and various European festivals.

Wagner Moura (09:34): "I'm going to do theater this year, and I'm very excited about it, but I'm also terrified."

His enthusiasm for theater underscores his versatile talent and continuous pursuit of challenging roles.

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Activism Through Art

A recurring theme in the discussion is Moura’s belief in the power of art to drive social and political change. He emphasizes that his roles are often extensions of his activism, aiming to spark meaningful conversations and reflection.

Wagner Moura (16:06): "Everything is political. Comedies are political because if it moves someone, it changes something."

Jesse echoes this sentiment, highlighting how art can subtly yet profoundly influence individuals without feeling didactic.

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Personal Reflections and Future Aspirations

Towards the end of the episode, both hosts delve into personal reflections about life, legacy, and aspirations beyond their careers. Moura contemplates where he envisions spending his final days, expressing a desire to leave his mark around the world rather than staying rooted in Los Angeles.

Wagner Moura (30:25): "I don't want to spend the rest of my life here in Los Angeles. I want to take my mom's ashes and sprinkle them around the world."

Jesse shares his own experiences dealing with loss and honoring his late mother’s wish to travel, fostering a deep and introspective conversation about life’s impermanence and the importance of fulfilling personal dreams.

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Cultivating Genuine Connections in the Industry

The episode concludes with discussions on fostering authentic relationships within the acting community. Both Jesse and Moura emphasize the importance of vulnerability and openness in building lasting bonds, drawing parallels between their personal lives and professional collaborations.

Wagner Moura (35:44): "Carnival is the most incredible party in the world... When I saw her in Carnival, we connected instantly."

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (51:28): "I remember one day in rehearsal for The Merchant of Venice, we were having trouble with the scene, and Al Pacino just encouraged us to improvise. It was a dream."

These anecdotes illustrate the serendipitous and heartfelt moments that define meaningful professional relationships.

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Conclusion

This episode of Dinner’s on Me offers a profound glimpse into Wagner Moura's multifaceted life as an actor, father, and activist. Through candid conversations, listeners gain insight into Moura's dedication to authenticity, his strategic life decisions, and the importance he places on genuine human connections. The blend of professional experiences with personal reflections creates a rich and engaging narrative, making it a must-listen for fans and aspiring actors alike.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Jesse Tyler Ferguson (01:57): "Wagner didn't just play Pablo Escobar; he basically earned a second diploma in Spanish to do it as a native Portuguese speaker."

• Wagner Moura (21:05): "We sat in front of each other, and I grabbed his hands and started talking about myself. It was such a beautiful moment of connection."

• Wagner Moura (16:06): "Everything is political. Comedies are political because if it moves someone, it changes something."

• Wagner Moura (30:25): "I don't want to spend the rest of my life here in Los Angeles. I want to take my mom's ashes and sprinkle them around the world."

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About the Hosts and Production

Dinner’s on Me with Jesse Tyler Ferguson is a unique celebrity-interview podcast produced by Sony Music Entertainment and A Kid Named Beckett Productions. Hosted by Jesse Tyler Ferguson, the show features intimate conversations over meals at top restaurants in Los Angeles and New York City. By subscribing to Dinner’s on Me PLUS, listeners gain early access to episodes and an ad-free experience.

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Upcoming Episode Teaser

Next week, Jesse will be joined by Patricia Clarkson to discuss her new film Lily, where she portrays real-life activist Lilly Ledbetter. Listeners can expect an in-depth exploration of Clarkson’s motivations and the significance of her role in championing pay discrimination issues.

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For more information and to subscribe, visit sonymusic.com/podcasts and follow @sonypodcasts on social media.

Transcript

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I'm here in London, knee deep in rehearsals for Here We Are at the National Theater, the late, great Stephen Sondheim's final musical. And it's been an incredible experience so far. But between the long days of learning lyrics and blocking scenes, I've come to appreciate a good system that makes everything run smoothly. Like Airbnb's co hosting feature. Now, if you're a host and you're juggling life like I am right now, a local co host can handle the details while you focus on your big projects. They can manage guest communication, check ins, and everything in between. So whether you're hosting while traveling or simply need some help, you can rest easy knowing someone reliable is looking after your place. And the best part? These co hosts are local pros who know your area inside and out, ensuring your guests have an unforgettable stay. And you can focus on what matters most. So whether you're looking to host or need a hand while you're away, find a co [e-mail] host hey everybody, it's.

[Hoda Kotb]

Hoda Kotb and I would love for you to join me for new episodes of my podcast Making Space. Each week I'm having conversations with authors, actors, speakers, and dear friends of mine, folks who are seeking the truth, compassion and self discovery. I promise you will leave these talks stronger and inspired to make space in your own life for growth and change. To start listening, just search Making Space wherever you get your podcasts and follow for new episodes every Wednesday.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi, it's Jesse today on the show. You know him as Pablo Escobar on the hit Netflix series Narcos, as Joel in Alex Garland's Civil War, and more recently, as protagonist Manny in the Apple series Dope Thief. It's Wagner Mora.

[Wagner Moura]

I love telenovelas.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, okay.

[Wagner Moura]

And it's just the best way to decompress is to see, like, those evil characters saying evil things and really wanted to up the lives of other person.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This is dinner's on me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It won't come as a surprise to anyone listening, but I absolutely loved being a part of Modern Family. Yes, it was incredible to work on a show that people genuinely loved watching. And yes, it was lovely to be recognized with awards. But more than that, it was a rare and special thing. It was lightning in a bottle. In an industry where finding consistent work is tough, landing a job on a hit show is once in a lifetime blessing. What made it even more meaningful was the social impact that Modern Family had, especially within the LGBTQ community. When the show premiered, only a handful of states had legalized same sex marriage and over time, Modern Family became more than just a popular sitcom. It became a cultural touchstone, a reflection of shifting values and in some ways a catalyst for change. It's a rare and beautiful thing when the work we do as artists aligns with the world we hope to help build. Wagner Mora is someone else who seems to have cracked that code, whether through great choices or great luck. Actually, probably both. He's an actor who doesn't just take on roles, he takes on missions. His work is packed with social and political meaning, and he brings a kind of fire to his role that makes you really pay attention. Take Narcos, for example. Wagner didn't just play Pablo Escobar, he basically earned a second diploma in Spanish to do it as a native Portuguese speaker. He didn't just learn the lines phonetically, he dove in headfirst, committed to getting the nuance, the rhythm, the danger, and yes, even the dad bod energy of Escobar just right. That's dedication. And now in his new Apple series, Dope Thief, he's continuing that tradition, playing another layered, morally complicated character that reflects the same passion he brings to his activism. Maura has this incredible ability to take on roles that are gritty, real and rooted in the bigger questions while still keeping you glued to the screen at the end of the day. We all hope our work can be more than just entertainment. We hope it can spark conversations, open minds, and maybe once in a while help push the world in a slightly better direction. Wagner Mora certainly does that. Hi, how are you?

[Wagner Moura]

How are you?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thanks for coming to the support of the tunnel.

[Wagner Moura]

Are you kidding me?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I brought Wagner Mora to Milo and Olive in Santa Monica. Milo and Olive is the cozy, cool Santa Monica spot from the husband and wife team chef Zoe Nathan and Josh Loeb, who also helm sister restaurants Huckleberry and Rustic Canyon, known for Zoe's legendary 48 Hour Pizza Dough. Listen, you have to order a pizza and head baker Andrea's crave worthy bread and pastries. Milo and Olive is all about seasonal local goodness and laid back vibes. Not to mention it made the Michelin guide in 20, 21, 22 and 23. This was my first time meeting Wagner after being a longtime admirer of his work, and I can't think of a better way to spark a new friendship than by sharing a pepperoni pizza. Okay, let's get to the conversation.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm single parenting my kids this week. I'm alone with three dudes yeah, I'm.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Happy to come over here. I mean, I'm a parent myself, so. I know.

[Wagner Moura]

I know. How old are your kids?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Four and a half and two and a half. How about yours, Beard?

[Wagner Moura]

My oldest is 18. Then I have another guy, he's 14, and my youngest is 12.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You must have had kids young.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, I was. I was 30.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm 48. Yeah, I was 30.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I'm 50, which is. How are you older? How am I older than you? And I have younger children.

[Wagner Moura]

I mean, can I say I think that I'm a way better father now than I was when I was 30.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Way better.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, I think I am having kids at the right time.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But, you know, you met your wife in college, right?

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So you had a good maybe 10 years, eight years before having kids?

[Wagner Moura]

Five.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Five years. Okay, five years. But it is interesting.

[Wagner Moura]

I was thinking, like, oh, I remember when it was just the two of us. We could do whatever the fuck we want, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Exactly. Travel anywhere.

[Wagner Moura]

Traveling. Oh, that's like, let's go to, like, another state. Let's travel internationally. When? Tomorrow.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just.

[Wagner Moura]

Let's do it now. It's like, we are. We used to be like a boat, and now we are like a Titanic. We move like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. So slow. Yeah, yeah. No, I get it. Yeah.

[Server]

Hello.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hi.

[Server]

Welcome.

[Wagner Moura]

Hey. Thank you. How are you?

[Server]

I'm doing good. I'm doing good, thanks. Can I get you guys started with any drinks?

[Wagner Moura]

I'll have some. Just sparkling water with some squeezed lemon, if you could.

[Server]

With some lemon.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, yeah, you got it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I'm gonna actually have your Mexican Sprite with Grenadine. I love it. Shirley Temple.

[Server]

Shirley Temple.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I haven't had a Shirley Temple in so long. But Mexican Sprite I haven't had in. That's like. With the real sugar, right?

[Server]

Cane sugar?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Cool. Extra sugar on top of it. I will, you know, at some point. Just a little.

[Wagner Moura]

At some point. I think I'll have a glass of Cabernet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah.

[Server]

At some point.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

At some point.

[Wagner Moura]

At some point. It's gonna come.

[Server]

At some point. Just bring it over. I'll grab this chocolate.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Wagner Moura]

Have you been here?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I walked in here, I was like, why is this place giving me deja vu? Like, about five or six years ago, I had a little bit of skin cancer on my face. It was here, and I had to get it removed. But, like, it was when I was shooting Modern Family still. So, like, I couldn't let them, like, shave my face. I remember they Shaved, like, a little patch of my beard off. And then they cut out the skin cancer piece, and they check the perimeter of what they've taken off to make sure that that's cancer free. And if it is, then they can stitch you up. But it takes a while to, like, test the sample that they've taken. So I was starving. I was across the street. I basically had a chunk of my cheek shaken off. They slapped some gauze on my face, taped me up, and I came over here and ate. Ate some pizza and had a glass of wine at the bar.

[Wagner Moura]

That's exactly what we're having. Yeah. This is it, Jesse. This is it. Pizza and wine.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And then I got, like, a text message from the. Like, it's all. You're all clear. So I went back across the street, got stitched up.

[Wagner Moura]

So there's a memory for here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. The funny thing was because they had shaved off a bit of my beard, and then also I had stitches on my face, and I'm still shooting Modern Family. They made, like, a little patch of hair that they basically taped to my beard, and it was, like, always flapping around. I have actually seen those episodes. Every once in a while. It looks like they have this strange, weird, hairy growth coming out.

[Wagner Moura]

Do you go back to Modern Family? Like, do you watch. Like, sometimes you go, like, I'm gonna watch this episode if it's on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, if I'm in a hotel or something and I pass by, I'll sometimes stop for a little while just to see if I can remember what was happening. And also, if I'm on a plane and I see people watching it across the way. Has that ever happened to you where someone's watching, like, Narcos on the plane?

[Wagner Moura]

I know. I have never.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I guess Narcos isn't really a play that doesn't give you a lot of peace in the air, you know, you need to watch something comforting like Modern Family if you're flying. You look so different from every other role I've seen you play. You're kind of a chameleon in a way that I wasn't really expecting. Obviously, in Narcos, you looked totally different.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm glad that you say that I'm different from that, because that was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know you had gained weight for that.

[Wagner Moura]

That was how rad.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But then I was watching Dope Thief. But you look so different in that, too, than you do right now. I mean, you look completely different. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

We like to play, like, with the different looks and hair.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Well, you're A theater guy, right?

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna do theater this year and I'm very excited about it, but I'm also terrified.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Because last. Last play that I did was in 2009.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What was it?

[Wagner Moura]

Hamlet.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Just a little play called Hamlet.

[Wagner Moura]

But it was my last experience on stage.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Wow. So, yeah, it's been a while. So what's. What's your next one?

[Wagner Moura]

It's an adaptation of Enemy of the People. It's not the play.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, wow. The Ibsen play.

[Wagner Moura]

It's not Ibsen's play per se, but it's gonna be like an adaptation.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And are you doing this back in Brazil?

[Wagner Moura]

Starting in Brazil and then do the whole European. Avignon, Edinburgh, all those European festivals. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Did you happen to see Jeremy Strong do it on Broadway?

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah. Yeah. Really liked it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Really liked it.

[Wagner Moura]

I really liked it. Jeremy Strong is so, so great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Are you in the mood for pizza or.

[Wagner Moura]

Yes. Yes.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What kind of pizza do you like?

[Server]

You really can't go wrong with any pizza. Start the dough. It's all farm to table ingredients. My personal favorite is the margarita. But any of the pizzas are really good. The mixed mushroom is a really great white pizza if you're in the mood for that. Our traditional pepperoni pizza is really delicious. A cup pepperoni. Some of the best pizza you'll find in the world, in my opinion.

[Wagner Moura]

And it's like pizzas that. Should we share pizzas?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Server]

Everything at this restaurant is meant to be shared. The pizzas are 12 inches, six slices each. Every dish on the menu is perfect for two to three people.

[Wagner Moura]

Okay. Do you eat pepperoni? Yeah. So should we have. Can I have like half something or half something or just one?

[Server]

Yeah, you do half if it's the. If the sauce is the same, like you couldn't do a half white, half red, but you could do half pepperoni, half margarita.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Let's do that. Okay, let's do that.

[Server]

Okay.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Can we get a side of the hot honey?

[Server]

A side of hot honey with pizza?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Server]

Awesome.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you.

[Server]

You're so lovely.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Wagner tells me about the hilarious circumstances under which he met Dope Thief executive producer Ridley Scott for the first and shares a bonding moment he had with his Dope Thief co star, Brian Tyree Henry. Okay, be right back. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread, fresh crusty, something with Character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold turkey always. It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master ham. Because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boars Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care. Because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey always. It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head Smoke Master Ham. Because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold, creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two. You know, for drama. Layer it all up. Cut it in half diagonally, obviously. And you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted thanks to Boar's Head. Every bite tastes like it was made with care. Because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head deli counter. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905. And we're back with more dinners on me. I'm excited about this Enemy of the People adaptation. That's really exciting. It's such a political play.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it's so timely. You tend to lean toward very political pieces. You know, I think in film and in television and now in theater as well. A civil war. The film that you did being incredibly political and, you know, a lot of the themes in Narcos and very. And of course, now, you know, in Dope Thief, which I'm so excited for people to see. It's so good. Ridley Scott, right?

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was such a.

[Wagner Moura]

You know, like, I was like, at some point, I was like, oh, my God. There was a moment where I got there and they had to dye my hair because I had to look younger.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

And then I was in the, in the makeup trailer with the. The hair dresser and. And he entered. It took us like an hour.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Wagner Moura]

So it was like this, this her person, Shanika, myself, and fucking. Really, Scott. And, man, I was asking him all the questions that us fans have, like, like all these stupid, crazy questions. And he was so gracious and so lovely, and answering everything, you know, like, with sense of humor is very funny. And, you know, the thing I like about. I really liked about him is, like, everything for him is like, you. It, you know, it doesn't care. He doesn't care about people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He's earned it, though. I mean, also, I think it's a conscious effort to, like, get to that place where you just do things that are meaningful to you. I. I feel like, as an observer of your career, you. You have been doing that. It seems like you do stuff that you want to do and stuff that resonates with you. I mean, have you ever done something that doesn't feel like it's an extension of kind of your beliefs and.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, I really take care of that, Jesse. But sometimes also, for example, Dope Thief, for me, it was. I saw the political aspects of it, which interested me. Like a Latino and a black dude. There are usually. It's a cliche, but when you, when you got closer to the characters, you see that the characters are the opposite of the cliche, of the stereotype. They're very vulnerable people. They don't want to be there. Many people, like poor people in Brazil, in the country that produce drugs or that could have another life. They could, they could. If the system wasn't so brutal, they could have another life. And that was like, oh, this is politically interesting. How you want to do. These characters are interesting. They're not like the cliche of the macho testosterone action. There is a lot of tenderness, and it's a love story story between two friends.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's exactly right. Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

But also, there was a component that really made me do it. Of course, I wanted to work with Whitley. I wanted to work with Peter Craig and Brian.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, but Brian Tyree Henry. Henry from Atlanta was a fucking great actor.

[Wagner Moura]

Dear friend of mine, he's incredible. But there was one thing that I was like, this is interesting because I. I got caught on a Friday to hop on an airplane on Saturday, try my costumes on Sunday and shoot on Monday.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Why was the turnaround so fast?

[Wagner Moura]

Because they had another guy.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, this is how you found out you got the job? You found out you got the job?

[Wagner Moura]

They shot, like, two episodes with another actor and then they were like, this is not working. And they needed another actor, like, right away.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, my God.

[Wagner Moura]

So I spoke with Ridley and Peter in the afternoon, and I was like, guys, I'm very flattered that you're thinking about me, but I don't think I can do that. I take preparation so seriously, you know? I mean, I'm an actor. I'm a serious actor. But then I was like, maybe this is something that's gonna shake me up in a way that I had never experienced before. Like to show up on set not really knowing the character that I'm playing well, but just, like, listen to Brian and react to whatever he's saying and figure it out while you're doing. Oh, and then. And that's exactly what I was doing. I was like, oh, okay. So I think. Oh, so I was understanding.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You're really playing catch up. Wait, let me ask you this. When you went in to replace this other actor, had they already shot episode one and two?

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Were they starting again at episode one?

[Wagner Moura]

They started again.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, thank God. I thought you were, like, popping out on an episode.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, no, they reshoot shot the entire.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I know eventually they would reshoot it, but, like, I didn't know where they were in production, so. Okay, so you got to start from the beginning of this.

[Wagner Moura]

They had to wish. And then they were like, that's real.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Fast pressure for you too.

[Wagner Moura]

And Ridley Scott shoots with six cameras on set, so it's the fastest thing. And I did telenovelas in Brazil, but this was fast. This was really fast. So I was there, like, not really knowing my lines, but it was a great experience. And I think now I go like, okay, I think I can do things without that much, you know, effort. That much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I'm listening to the story and I was like, okay, I prefer to prepare. Exactly. I can do it if I have to.

[Wagner Moura]

I can do it if I have to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Exactly. I always find the first day on set is so terrifying. Even if you're prepared because you're laying the groundwork for something that you're Gonna have to sustain. And especially if it's a series that's like eight episodes, it's like, okay, here it is. I'm literally creating the DNA and the blueprint for this character. And hopefully, hopefully it works out because I'm stuck with it. You can't like change your mind halfway through.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then I was making these connections. Like, he is a guy who spends the entire show trying to get out of that cycle of violence. He foresees a life for himself, but in order to do that, he has to break up with Ray, who is Brian's character, who is the love of his life.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's just to back up a little bit. I mean, the. You know, when I watched the first episode of Dope Thief, you're a D agent, DEA agent. And I was like, oh, this is interesting. You know, you had just been playing Pablo Escobar for so long, it's like, oh, now he's on the other side of things. And you find out within about, you know, seven minutes that, oh, you guys are. Are not who you seem to be. And you're pretending to be these agents to go in and steal drugs and money. And it's an incredible twist that happens very early on, but the whole story has these twists and like you were just saying, it's. It is a love story. It's a show that constantly surprises. And I think, you know, it reminded me a lot of that sort of super classy, edgy early aughts dramas that like the HBO was doing like the Wire and even like Six Feet under, like just relationship wise. It was a bit of a throwback just in terms of like nuance and complexity that a lot of those shows have that I feel like, I don't know, I have kind of been missing for a while and this show has a lot of that.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, Peter Craig is like, he's such a great writer. But honestly man, I mean that dude was the nicest person I have ever met in this industry. Yeah, he's just a nice, good man. And that was. I would do anything. You know, when you know someone, I'll do anything you want me to do.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Another beautiful thing that happened. So when I got there, I haven't met Brian before. And I love rehearsals. Right. Like, I love to rehearse. I think rehearsals are so great. And then we rehearse and then you go to the set and it's just. You just have fun because you don't have the anxiety with the other person personally. Like, I mean, so we were playing two guys. They were like, very, very close. They were really. And I met the guy, like, on set with his customs on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's so crazy.

[Wagner Moura]

And then to shoot that very first scene of us in that van. And then we were walking to the set, and I was like, okay, this is okay, Brian. And I grabbed him and was like, dude, can we go to this green room for a second? So we went to the green room. I locked the door.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

By the way, if you're on a set and, like, there's so many people watching every move. Like, if you go to the bathroom, there's people with walkie talkies outside the bathroom waiting for you to come out. You guys go and lock a door.

[Wagner Moura]

And people walkie talk. It's like, they're in the green room. They're just going in the green room. I don't know what they. I don't know what's going on. They're in the green room. And then, like, just a second. And we sat in front of each other and I grabbed his hands like this, like, grab his hands, looked at him and was like, my name is Wagner Mora. I'm from Brazil. I have three kids. And I. I started to talk about myself. I came. I'm scared. This is weird.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

And you know the beautiful thing about it? He just like this, he looked at me and he said, my name is Brian. I came from this place, blah, blah, blah. And he's. And it was such a.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

You were already, like, on the same.

[Wagner Moura]

Moment that we shared.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's sweet.

[Wagner Moura]

And we started up with a connection because, you know, that's what I feel it really misses. I miss this. You're going to do a scene with someone like that's your girlfriend or something, and have to touch the person and listen. For me, like, this preparation is like. It doesn't take anything away from the freshness of the moment. You know, getting a moment is another thing. It's something different, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sure you were just so scared. But isn't. Doesn't that feel like if you're not scared, like, there's no point doing it?

[Wagner Moura]

There's no point. I mean, but that was like an extra level of.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, even that's different.

[Wagner Moura]

I was like. But that also. But. But you're right. You're right. That was like I said, that was one of the reasons that. That I was like, I should do this.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

You know, go through this. Honestly, for me now, at this point of my life, the experience of doing it and the Things that you learn like this, Like, I can do things like this, or people that you meet, relationships that you. That you create.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

For me, right now, that's more important than the result.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

I can say this, like, with the bottom of my heart. And of course, I want everything that I do to be super successful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Great.

[Wagner Moura]

And palo. But the journey, it is indeed the most important thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I. Yeah, I know. I agree with that. Can I ask you a little about that? Playing at Pablo Escobar? I know that you obviously don't wait for the role, and, you know, you look so different, but what really fascinates me was how, I mean, he's so notorious, so many people have an opinion of him. Finding humanity and sympathy within that, that character couldn't have always been easy. I mean, it must have taken some creativity on your part to find moments like that.

[Wagner Moura]

I researched a lot about him with that one. I really took my time. I mean, I learned a language to play that character. I read everything that was written about him. I was. I lived in Medellin. I was there. I was talking to people so I could have a really clear, understand understanding of the man that he was. And he was an evil man for sure, but he was a human being. And, you know, this is what we do, right? This is the. We see people as people, regardless of what they do, of who they are.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I feel I firmly.

[Wagner Moura]

He was a family man, people. He did a lot for his family. He did a lot for poor people in Medellin. Built them houses and things might be like, for personal interest, because he wanted to be a politician too, but he did it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Many people there. Many people there. There's an entire neighborhood in Medellin called Barrio Public. If you go there, if you say about Pablo, they might kill you because they gave it. The public gave them their houses and their schools.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And I mean, I saw similar themes, you know, when I watch Sofia Bergara do Griselda. You know, she brought a lot of humanity to that part. And there were a lot of people that. That, you know, Griselda did help, and, you know, I mean, their lives were made better by her. But, you know, it's obviously a lot that she did that hurt people as well. I can't even imagine, though, learning a new language and being able to create nuance within that language.

[Wagner Moura]

Now that's a difficult thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Until today, for me, it's really, really hard to work in English, in Spanish, because when I say something in Portuguese, the words come filled with memory and emotion, you know, it's not the dialect itself. It's not like being able to pronounce the words correctly so people wouldn't go like what?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It's the meaning behind it.

[Wagner Moura]

It's the meaning, it's the relationship with it. It's hard.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I mean, it really baffles me.

[Wagner Moura]

Have you done anything in another language?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, it's just an interesting exercise. It's an interesting thing to do.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Wagner tells me about the crazy carnival night that led to his 24 year long marriage and why one of his films was censored by his home country. Okay, be right back. Between traveling to record Dinners On Me, whether it's a sit down in LA or takeout in Salt Lake City, I'm away from home a lot these days. And as someone who's a little Type A about safety, I finally decided to upgrade our home security. Especially after reading that break ins are more likely to happen during the day than at night. Yeah, that little FBI fact really got me. So I got Simplisafe and I went all in with the Elite package, also known as the Beacon. It's their most comprehensive system. Cameras, sensors, smart locks, the whole thing. I set it up quickly and now when I'm off recording with a guest, I know my home is being watched over. Simplisafe's monitoring agents can spot trouble, talk through the camera flash spotlights, even call the police before someone gets inside. No long term contracts, no hidden fees, and monitoring starts at just about a dollar a day. Plus there's a 60 day money back guarantee. Visit simplisafe.com Jesse to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com Jesse S I M P L-I S A F E.com Jesse there's no safe like Simplisafe. This episode of Dinners on Me is brought to you by Nissan. These days, it feels like the world and our lives are moving at hyperspeed. I mean, that's why I love doing this podcast. It's a chance to slow down, to truly connect with another human being and to enjoy the feeling of actually being in the present moment. On that note, I am very excited that Dinners On Me is partnering with Nissan because Nissan understands that sometimes the greatest rush comes from not rushing at all. And with the all new Nissan Murano, you can enjoy an unapologetic refuge amidst the daily hustle and bustle of life. The Nissan Murano is not just a vehicle. It's a space where you can take a beat to catch your breath and re energize to be in the present moment. And trust me, this is the moment you'll want to be in and drive in. The Nissan Murano features an elevated modern interior design and a bold new exterior look. Plus the expansive panoramic moonroof adds tons of natural light to the roomy cabin with massaging leather appointed seats to help melt away the tension of the day and ambient mood lighting with 64 color options to set the vibe just right. What's not to love? So thanks again to Nissan for sponsoring this episode of Dinner's on Me and for reminding us to take a moment and breathe. Learn more about the all new nissan [e-mail] Panoramic moonroof, ambient lighting and massaging leather appointed seats are optional features. And we're back with more dinners on me.

[Wagner Moura]

You know, Jesse, we have about the same age and I've been thinking a lot about Nana sound creepy or any where I want to die.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, interesting.

[Wagner Moura]

You know, where do I want to die to spend the last days of my life? And I think this is kind of the age you start thinking about it. I know for sure that I don't want to spend the rest of my life here in Los Angeles. Although I love the city, I love living here, my kids love it. But it's. I know that it's not here for me. I don't know what exactly what it is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I. Not Los Angeles for me either.

[Wagner Moura]

Not for you. Where are you originally from?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I was raised in New Mexico, but I lived in New York for a while when I was doing theater before I came out here. And I was born in Montana. It's interesting. My mom passed away in November and she didn't get to travel a lot.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm sorry, Jesse.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you. Thank you. We just had a service for her a few weekends ago and she wanted her remains divided up between me and my siblings. So we each have a third of her her homes and I'm going to London soon to do this play and then after that I'm going to New York to do Shakespeare in the Park. And you know, when my mom was still around and I was asking her about her wishes for, you know what, what do you want after you pass away? Like what kind of service do you want? She said, take me traveling. Take me traveling. So I just, this isn't too late.

[Wagner Moura]

I love grim but like take me traveling. So great.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So I got her earn camera in the mail a few days ago, and I was transferring her ashes into the urn, and I thought, okay, well, I need like a little to go size portion so I could take. I'm going to take her to London and I'm going to leave her a little bit of her in London. I'm going to take her to New York and leave a little. Yeah, I'm going to like, sprinkle her around the world.

[Wagner Moura]

That's genius, man.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And so. But I couldn't find a container. I thought I had, like, these old spice containers, like glass spice containers with screw tops. Couldn't find them. I don't know where they are. So I'm looking through the cabinets, trying to find something to put her in. And like, everything's either too big or like way too small or like, looks like it's gonna break anyway. I end up dumping out a bottle of like, sprinkles that she put on like a cupcake. Like jimmies, you know what I'm talking about? Like, you know, like those rainbow colored jimmies. So I dump out the jimmies and I transfer some of my mom's ashes. And I think there's even like a few jimmies that are stuck on the bottom. It's like, I'm just gonna leave them in there.

[Wagner Moura]

I loved it so much.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I feel like my mom would be just like laughing at this situation. Like me, you know, emptying out my cupcake drawer to, like, figure out how to transport her to.

[Wagner Moura]

That's one day.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But I'm gonna. I'm gonna find little places and like, just leave her around. She's like, she didn't get to travel a lot. She didn't have a passport.

[Wagner Moura]

She didn't. That. She didn't get to travel a lot.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no, she went.

[Wagner Moura]

She went to this beautiful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love this. I love this for her.

[Wagner Moura]

This is beautiful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

I've never heard of it. You know, it's interesting because people usually like, oh, this is the place where this person loved the sea or the countryside. Oh, that's moving. She said, like, I want to travel.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I want to travel. And she knows I've traveled so much and she's like, just take me around with you.

[Wagner Moura]

I think this is beautiful.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Thank you. But when you're. When you're talking about, like, where I want to die, it's funny because I've been thinking about that myself a lot because I had that conversation with my mother.

[Wagner Moura]

She live.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

She lived here. She lived 10 minutes away from me here.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I moved her here. From Albuquerque to la. To la. Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

So how long have you been living here?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, God, it's probably been about 18 or 19 years now. Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

So this is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, it's home.

[Wagner Moura]

LA.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I've lived here longer than I've lived anywhere else. I think now, at this point, although I still feel strangely like a visitor, which is why I feel like this is not where I would want to be if I died. I don't feel an emotional connection to it. My family's here. I started my family here. My kids are here. Obviously my in laws are all here. But, yeah, it doesn't feel like this is emotionally where I want to be.

[Wagner Moura]

Same same thing for me. And I don't know. And I don't know exactly which place would be. I could be Brazil. It could be Brazil. It could be my hometown, Salvador. Could be Rio, where I lived for 18 years, but could be also like, I met. I. I mean, I did this trip like two months ago in Tuscany, and I'm like, what's the. Remember that film? What's the film? It's like, what's the action? No. A house in Tuscany.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

You know what I'm talking about.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I don't know if that's the name. I already.

[Wagner Moura]

It's a famous actress, Diane Lane.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Diane Lane.

[Wagner Moura]

Diane Lane, yeah. Diane Lane. She's an American. She goes to Tuscany. I think I'm gonna stay here. And she meets like this handsome Italian guy, and that was what I felt.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

So beautiful, so cultural. And way less expensive than living in. In this crazy city. Don't get me wrong, I love living in la. I like la. My kids love la.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

But I don't want to die in la.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Have you had this conversation with your wife?

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, yeah, no.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Does she want to go where you go?

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, yeah, we're together. No, no, no. We are totally on the same page.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know you met your wife in school, but how early into that process were you? Was it like day one of school?

[Wagner Moura]

No, no, no, no. I met her at college, Right. We both studied journalists. And I always thought she was like, the most beautiful girl, but I had a girlfriend, she had a boyfriend. You know, we were friends. You know, we were hanging out with her. Our friends. They are our best friends still today. Journalists. But then, man, there's something called carnival.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know about carnival. Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

The carnival is the most incredible party in the world. Especially in my hometown, Salvador, because you see people that are in your daily lives. Like the guy like that works in the bank that you or the, the people, this guy, the restaurant guy. And you have this relationship when you see them in Carnival.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Like, what are they wearing?

[Wagner Moura]

Somebody else. You know, you just.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Hey.

[Wagner Moura]

And you. And it's sexy and it's everybody and it's very sexy. Sexy. And everybody's like, really into having fun. It's interesting because it's a. It's supposed to be a Christian party, but it's very. But when I saw her in Carnival and we look at each other.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Sandra. Sandra's her name.

[Wagner Moura]

Sandra.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

She was a photographer. She was working there. And I was doing this playing Rio. I was living in Rio and this carnival was in Salvador. And I was like, hey, we spend the whole Carnival together. And I was like, I have to go back to Rio because I'm working on this play. Would you come with me? She's like, yeah, she came with me.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's how all romance works in Europe.

[Wagner Moura]

She came with me, she left her job and we started living together. We didn't know each other. We're sort of like knowing each other, living together. That was 24 years ago.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. That's incredible. I'll be married 12 years the next July. Married 12 years, together 15.

[Wagner Moura]

Congrats.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I love it. I love being married. I love being a dad.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm a cancer. Right. Being at home, the five of us traveling together. And this is the thing, this dynamic might end soon. You know, it's my 18 years old. He will, you know, start traveling with his friends and going as it should.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

So when I see those four year olds, two years olds, I go, like, just wanna, I know, listen, if you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Want to hug a 2 year old or a 4 year old, just come over anytime, man.

[Wagner Moura]

It's. I. Yeah, I will.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Truly. You know, when you're talking about how you like to prepare and just, you know, rehearsals and how that's such a sacred part of your process, I mean, it occurred to me as I was remembering, you know, you're a journalist first. Like, I can only imagine that that impulse to dive deep and to sort of excavate information as you would as a journalist have to do, must come into play in your preparation for characters.

[Wagner Moura]

The fact that I studied journalism was very important for me. I didn't graduate as an actor. Right. I don't have a proper education as an actor. My education as an actor was like doing, doing things, going.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I think that's it though, going to.

[Wagner Moura]

Stage and doing plays. Because I was already working as an actor when I was studying journalism. I started when I was 15. And the journalism itself, like, being. Always being connected to what's going on to real reading. That's why I think this approach, this political approach that I have with what I do comes a little bit from there, I think, you know, because I think, Jesse, that everything is political. Comedies are, you know, like, things that you go like, oh, this is a silly comedy. It is political for me, you know, because if it moves someone individually, somehow of the person is like, oh, I had a great night. I love theater. Just. Just the fact that someone goes like, I love art. I love theater. This is political.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That's actually. Nowadays, that's the best kind, too. I think moving people through art is the best way to do it. Because sometimes it happens in a way, your heart's being changed, but it doesn't feel like medicine. It doesn't feel like I have to. I'm learning a lesson here. Like, that's. I mean, when those changes happen. I think that's. That's beautiful.

[Wagner Moura]

Was.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was a film that you directed, censored in Brazil?

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, yeah, I directed. Oh, man. Yeah. What was that again? Mari Gela. That film was, you know, that we were under a fascist government for four years, right?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yes, I know a little bit about the history. Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

Guy called Bolsonaro. Brazil was under a very heavy dictatorship from 64 to 85. I was born during the dictatorship in 76, and it was horrible. Have you seen this Brazilian film that won the international film the Oscars now? It's called I'm Still Here.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I.

[Wagner Moura]

It's beautiful. It's about that too. But my film is about the leader of the armed resistance against the dictatorship. And this president that. This former president that we had, he praised the dictatorship. He thought that the dictatorship was a good thing for the country. So the film. We shot the film in 2017, and the film was released in competition in Berlin in 2019. And we could only release the film in Brazil in 2021, almost 2022, because it censored the film. Openly censored the film. And we received death threats like it was hardcore shit. But was a fight that I was very happy to fight. But I said a lot, I spoke a lot, I exposed myself a lot. And I don't regret that for a second. Was at very tough fight because it was the entire government against one film. But a lot of people embraced us, you know, everybody. All the progressive people in Brazil, because, you know, it's. Unfortunately, we live in a very polarized situation. You can see in civil war, which is unfortunate, but. But it Was really important for me to feel embraced by people that go like, oh, this film is important. We want to know about this guy back then.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Right.

[Wagner Moura]

Well.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And sometimes when those things are met with resistance, it just increases the interest in, like, what it is. Like, why is this thing, you know, they're trying to do something, but it's actually doing the opposite. Yeah, yeah. It's actually shining more light on.

[Wagner Moura]

Sure. The film was a huge success.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

In Brazil, internationally. It was amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, they did.

[Wagner Moura]

They sort of did me a favor. But it was tough. Yeah, it was tough. There were, like, some premieres that we had to have metal detectors on the door because these people are crazy. Because these guys like Trump and Bolsonaro, they empower their followers in their worst. In the worst instinct.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

So you have to be aware, Justin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

My husband and I produced. We've produced a few films with David Saint, who's this incredible documentary filmmaker. And the one that we came on board with was. It's a film called welcome to Chechnya, Streams on hbo, but it's about the gay purge in Chechnya. And the people who went in to film this, they had to do it, you know, very guerrilla style, with secret cameras and their glasses and iPhones, you know, being hidden. And it's crazy how terrifying it was just to even make the film. And also it's terrifying to watch it, but just knowing the filmmakers actually had to do this. But I was so proud to be a part of that.

[Wagner Moura]

Congrats.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

That film. And the reason Justin and I came on is because they had to implement a technical aspect into the movie. They basically had to deep fake the faces of all of the lead players so that their faces wouldn't be recognized because it was so dangerous for them to be exposed.

[Wagner Moura]

They had to protect them.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So they had to protect them. But at the same time, they didn't want. Just blur out their faces because they wanted the emotion of these. Of these stories.

[Wagner Moura]

And the voices.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And the voices were changed a little bit as well. But so they had these actors that came in and basically did face replacement on these lead characters in the film. So. Yeah. Which is wild because it's like, you can see it's. It's a little glitchy. Like, it's sometimes like they'll turn a certain way and it looks like they're wearing a weird mask, but you could still see the emotion. And they just. Just borrowed other people's faces.

[Wagner Moura]

Well, wait, but. So the. But the. But the. The actors. So the actors reproduced the interviews, like, did the Actors?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, the actors, basically. I don't know the technology about how they do this, but it was basically, you know, deep fake is such a dangerous thing. It could be used in so many horrible ways. This was like, probably one of the first times it's been used in, like, a wonderful way. But basically, they were just. Their images were captured. They went into, like, studio and, you know, did all, like, the dots on their face or whatever you have to do to, like, capture these images and did full body scans of these actors. And then they were able to directly replace the actor's physicality on top of the people, on top of the subjects of the film. And so there was no reenactment that we really. The actors never spoke any lines. It was the people who. It was our subject speaking the line, but they were hidden in a. Basically a body cast of it at the random actor.

[Wagner Moura]

That's so.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Isn't it fascinating?

[Wagner Moura]

That's fascinating.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Anyway, so that. That costs money. And so Justin and I were like, that's expensive, right? It's very expensive. That's when. That's when they were raising more money, and Justin and I hopped on board saying, we have to make sure this film gets made, and it gets made in this way. It's not an easy watch. Like I said, it plays out like a thriller in a lot of ways.

[Wagner Moura]

That's my thing, Justin.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, I. I figured you would like it.

[Wagner Moura]

Yes. That's my kind of thing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. I mean, you. Are there things that you watch or you enjoy on TV that are just purely like, candy. I'm just looking at your resume.

[Wagner Moura]

You know what I love? What do you love? Adventure Time.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

What is that?

[Wagner Moura]

It's a cartoon. Have you seen this? No. It's brilliant.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay.

[Wagner Moura]

Adventure Time is brilliant. It's this little boy and a dog, and the dog is sort of elastic, and they live in this fantasy world, and it's just their adventures, but it's so poetic and so philosophical. My kids love it, too.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Adventure Time. Go Google it.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, please check it out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay. I thought you were gonna say something like the Bachelor.

[Wagner Moura]

Let me see.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

So even your. Even your candy TV has, like. It's poetic and it's beautiful.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, but it's like. It's. Oh, I love telenovelas.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. Okay. That's what you started doing.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, I did two of them, and I loved it. And I learned a lot by doing that. And I love. And it's just the best way to decompress is to see, like, those evil characters saying evil things. And really wanted to up the lives of other persons.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, it's. It's hard work.

[Wagner Moura]

It's hard work. Are you kidding me? You're kidding me. If you're a main character in a telenovela, you get in the studio at 9am and you leave at 6pm and you know, in Brazil, in Mexico, they use those earwigs. In Brazil, people really memorize their lines, which is insane. So I'm talking about 30 scenes per day, something like that. Yeah. You know, it's crazy, but it's a very. You get like, very.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, I'm sure. It keeps you so sharp.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, Sharp. You're like, okay, let's do it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Well, and I know here in the States, like, so many of our most beloved actors did soap operas, like Julianne Moore, for example, started soap operas. Is it. Are there like, Brazilian actors who have. Are, like, super big now that have come out of that world?

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, dude, no. In Brazil. The star system in Brazil is so popular, actually.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, yeah, okay.

[Wagner Moura]

Our Hollywood is so popular. It's like soccer, you know, like, it's like part of the culture. And the greatest Brazilian actors work on soap operas. Of course, they're always like the indie cool actors that just do loads of films and things. But I was to the episode with Giacopolo.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

And you've never seen the Godfather?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Is that terrible?

[Wagner Moura]

Okay, let's talk about that. Just to.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know. Yeah, let's talk about it.

[Wagner Moura]

No, no, no. I mean, I'm not judging you at all.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, but it's.

[Wagner Moura]

What's the reason? What's like.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Like, I think.

[Wagner Moura]

Is it too violent?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

No, no. I'm almost 50 years old, and the fact that I haven't seen it yet, I'm ashamed. And I don't know why I won't just, like, shut myself away in a room and, like, watch all three parts. It feels overwhelming now. I feel like, oh, God, like. And also, I built it up so much in my head. I'm like, what if it's not as good as I. As I need it to be? And I know it's gonna be as great as I need it to be. And the thing is, why it's been on my mind so, so much recently is several of my other friends who are about the same age as me have all recently watched the Godfather for the first time and separately have been. Have said to me, like, you know what? I just watched the Godfather, and it is one of the most incredible things. I cannot believe it's taking me this long to watch it. And so now I just. I have to watch it.

[Wagner Moura]

You have to watch it.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know, I know, I know. And there's so many things I've seen multiple times that you'd be like, are you kidding me? And yet I've never seen the Godfather. Okay, I know. And there's others. There's other classic films that I haven't seen, but there's stuff that I've seen that people have never seen that. Like, how could you have never seen that?

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, that's okay. I mean. But.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But the Godfather.

[Wagner Moura]

But I was curious because it's like the other. The greatest American movie of all times.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Also, I think, because there's three of them, I'm like, oh, that's a commitment.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah. Stick with the first one. The second two. One. You don't need to watch the third one. No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, okay.

[Wagner Moura]

But the first two ones.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

You know when you see De Niro and. And. And Pacino in there, My son. My oldest son works at the Aero Theater here in Montana.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Oh, nice.

[Wagner Moura]

And he was like, yesterday, he was like, dad, all Pacinos here. It was like. It was like they were screaming, dark day afternoon. And he freaked out. He was like, that's incredible. God. He bought a popcorn, but my friend sell it to him. I tried to. Oh, my God.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I did the merch stuff, and with Al Pacino.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, man.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And Shakespeare in the Park.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, come on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He played Shylock and he. It was. I spent a whole summer with him.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, come on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I. Obviously, we could not have been more intimidated when I first walked into that rehearsal room. But let me tell you what. He is the coolest, nicest. He is just a. He is a student.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm sure he is.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He loved rehearsal.

[Wagner Moura]

We.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

We did it. We did the Merchant of Venison rep with Winner's Tale. He wasn't in Winter's Tale. So basically every two days, he had a few days off from rehearsal, and he did not want to be away from rehearsal. So they booked him a little tiny room next to the main rehearsal room so that he could just run lines on days when he wasn't called in because we were rehearsing the play, he wasn't in. He just had to be a part of the process.

[Wagner Moura]

He enjoys the work.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He enjoys the work. And I remember one day, I was.

[Wagner Moura]

It doesn't take it for granted. No.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

And it's. He's so inspiring. In fact, I called him because I wanted to come as a guest on the show, and he just released his autobiography. I was like, Come on the show and we'll talk about it.

[Wagner Moura]

Does he know you have never seen the Godfather?

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He does now. No, I was, of course, afraid to tell him. By the next time I see Al, I will have seen the Godfather. I promise you. But I do remember one day in rehearsal for the Merchant of Venice, we were having. It was a scene with just me and him. I played the clown. And in Merchant of Venice, which is basically like an anti Semitic clown, you know, hilarious back then, not so funny today.

[Wagner Moura]

It's a racist play.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Very racist play. And we were having. I'm trying to remember the guy's name. Gobbo. Lancelot. Gobbo is his name, is my character. And we were having trouble with the scene. And so we were brought into another rehearsal room to like, kind of figure some stuff out. And Al was like, let's just. Let's just improvise. Let's just improvise the scene. And so I started improvising Shakespeare with Al Pacino.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, come on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He was like, I'm just coming home from the office, like that sort of stuff. And I was like, this is wild.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, come on.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

It was a dream.

[Wagner Moura]

Improvising Shakespeare with Al Pacino.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Wagner Moura]

That's amazing, bro.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

He is a really cool guy.

[Wagner Moura]

That's amazing.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I mean, I. Hey, that will go down. It's like one of the greatest experiences of my entire life.

[Wagner Moura]

And on theater, on stage.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I know.

[Wagner Moura]

That's beautiful. That's.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

But yeah, I haven't seen the Godfather yet. All right.

[Wagner Moura]

Yeah, okay. Figure that out.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Listen, if I see you in London, if you come to London, I'll see you in London. I will make sure I've seen the Godfather.

[Wagner Moura]

I'll see you in London. I'm gonna reach out to you.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Okay, Please do.

[Wagner Moura]

Because I'm Brazilian, I don't. It's no bullshit. I reach out to people.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

I love it when people reach out to me.

[Wagner Moura]

I'm gonna reach out to you and I'm gonna rely. I want to watch. I want to see you play.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

Yeah. So mid June, you'll buy dinner because right now, dinner's on me.

[Wagner Moura]

Oh, yeah. I'll bart dinner next time in London.

[Jesse Tyler Ferguson]

This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Milo and Olive in Santa Monica, California. Next week on Dinners on Me. You know her from her iconic roles in prestige TV series like Sharp Objects and Six Feet under, its Golden Globe winning actor and Academy Award nominee, Patricia Clarkson. We'll get into her new film Lily, where she plays real life actor, activist Lilly Ledbetter, a longtime Goodyear tire plant worker who fought back against pay discrimination. We'll get into why this role is so meaningful to her and so much more. And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners on Me. Plus, as a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad free. Just click Try free at the top of the Dinners on Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today. Dinners on Me is a production of Sony Music Entertainment and a kid named Beckett Productions. It's hosted by me, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. It's executive produced by me and Jonathan Hirsch. Our showrunner is Joanna Clay. Our associate producer is Alyssa Midcalf. Sam Baer engineered this episode, Hansdale. She composed our theme music. Our head of production is Sammy Allison. Special thanks to Tameka Balance Kolasny and Justin Makita. I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart. Building the perfect sandwich. And yes, yes, I take this very seriously. Step one, you need a great bread. Fresh, crusty, something with character. Step two, Boar's Head Oven Gold Turkey always. It's juicy, it's flavorful. It's the backbone of this operation. Step three, a few slices of Boar's Head. Smoke Master Ham because I like to mix it up. It adds a slow smoked beechwood flavor that makes your taste buds just, you know, do a little dance. Step four, Cheese sharp cheddar if I'm feeling bold. Creamy Swiss if I'm feeling fancy. Step five, a swipe of Dijon crisp lettuce, thin sliced tomato, and maybe a pickle or two, you know, for drama. Layer it all up, cut it in half diagonally, obviously, and you got a sandwich that's perfectly crafted. Thanks to Boar's Head, every bite tastes like it was made with care. Because it was. So if you're ready to level up your sandwich game, trust me, start at the deli counter. Discover the craftsmanship behind every bite at your local Boar's Head Deli Counter. Boar's Head, committed to crafts since 1905.