Dive Club Episode Summary: Mike and Cara Smith - Designing for the Love of the Game

Release Date: January 3, 2025
Host: Ridd
Guests: Mike and Cara Smith from Smith Indiction

1. Introduction

In this engaging episode of Dive Club, host Ridd welcomes Mike and Cara Smith from Smith Indiction, known for their impactful work on the Perplexity brand identity. The conversation delves deep into the intricacies of product strategy, branding, positioning, and the evolving role of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in design. Mike and Cara share their philosophies, emphasizing passion over profit and fostering meaningful client relationships.

2. The Current Landscape of Design Agencies

Mike opens the discussion by characterizing the design agency landscape as "really, really kind of fractured" (00:19). He identifies three primary factions:

• AI Enthusiasts: Agencies fully embracing AI.
• Skeptics: Those resistant to AI integration.
• The Middle Ground: Agencies like Smith Indiction, cautiously observing AI’s impact.

Cara adds that the initial AI hype led to hesitations among clients, fearing they might forego traditional branding studios. However, over time, clients recognized that while AI tools are valuable, they cannot entirely replace the nuanced creativity and strategic thinking of human designers (01:38).

3. Client Relations and the Subscription Model Debate

Ridd probes into the subscription-based agency models and their place in the industry. Mike strongly critiques this approach, expressing a preference for traditional project-based pricing over recurring subscriptions:

"I have seen so many of them, just this year being like, I'm realizing that subscriptions is not the right move for me, and I'm going back to pricing every project." (02:05)

He likens the subscription model to Netflix, where services can be easily canceled without fostering deep relationships. Instead, Mike advocates for building personal, conversational relationships with clients, treating them as friends rather than mere transactions (02:05).

Cara echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that true branding goes beyond transactional relationships, aiming for long-term partnerships that resonate emotionally with clients.

4. Building a Thoughtful Brand Strategy

Ridd shifts the conversation to brand strategy and positioning, prompting Mike and Cara to elaborate on their approach.

Cara underscores the importance of empathy in strategy:

"Good strategy and positioning requires you to really think... what do they actually want?" (07:34)

Rather than pushing products, the focus should be on fulfilling genuine needs, fostering loyal customer relationships rather than one-off sales.

Mike highlights the essence of a strong brand by referencing Topo, a brand well-loved for its color and quality:

"If you can hit that stride [where your brand is the first choice], that's a really good mode to be in." (08:08)

They stress that effective branding involves understanding the emotional journey of stakeholders, from end-users to decision-makers, ensuring that the brand resonates on a deeper level.

5. Timeless vs. Trendy Design

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the concept of timeless design versus trendy aesthetics.

Mike expresses skepticism about achieving true timelessness in design:

"I was just gonna say that because, like, they came to us and they were like, we're a food tracking app... I have a super messed up stomach... that's why I'm here." (29:27)

He argues that timelessness often equates to consistent functionality and purpose-driven design, rather than adhering to fleeting trends. Cara adds that brands should focus on craftsmanship and emotional resonance to ensure longevity:

"One of the reasons that a lot of people consider mid-century design to feel timeless is because it was made with a lot of craft." (29:56)

Together, they advocate for designs that endure over time through quality and thoughtful execution rather than chasing temporary trends.

6. Integrating AI in Brand Design

The integration of AI tools in the design process is another focal point.

Mike shares their experience with AI, particularly with tools like Visual Electric and Mid Journey:

"It's a brand new tool and nobody knows how to use it yet... but what are you supposed to do?" (30:29)

He discusses the challenges and opportunities AI presents, emphasizing that while AI can generate aesthetically pleasing elements, the human touch in strategy and emotional storytelling remains irreplaceable. Cara concurs, highlighting that AI-generated designs often lack the personalization and cultural relevance that human designers bring to the table:

"What sets you apart is if you're speaking to a global audience... everything made with AI shouldn't probably be made with AI look pretty bad." (30:29)

7. Brand Architecture: Beyond Logo and Type

Ridd steers the conversation towards brand architecture, specifically the relationship between logos, typography, and additional brand elements they refer to as "moves".

Cara introduces the concept of "moves" as:

"How do you have things that you can do that feel ownable?" (42:08)

These moves encompass unique design elements that extend beyond basic logos and colors, allowing brands to maintain a consistent and recognizable identity across various platforms and mediums. Mike emphasizes the necessity of these elements in creating a comprehensive brand experience:

"If you try to make moves, you have ideas that can keep you in the zone." (43:21)

They advocate for strategic creativity, ensuring that every design choice reinforces the brand's identity and emotional appeal.

8. Advice for Founders and Early Designers

For founders and early-stage designers grappling with minimal style guides, Mike and Cara offer practical advice:

Cara suggests:

"Put up some constraints can help you figure out where to start... give yourself space to mess around." (45:00)

This involves setting creative boundaries and allowing for exploratory processes such as:

• Blending Modes in Photoshop: Experimenting with different modes to discover unique visuals.
• Iterative Design: Creating multiple versions and refining based on emotional resonance rather than just meeting functional requirements.

Mike adds the importance of quantity over perfection:

"Just because you worked on it for a long time does not mean it's good... think about it much more iteratively." (52:21)

The emphasis is on rapid iteration, open-minded experimentation, and being willing to discard non-functional designs swiftly.

9. Embracing Flexibility in Brands

Flexibility is portrayed as a cornerstone for modern branding, especially in a rapidly evolving digital landscape.

Mike envisions a future where brands are inherently dynamic and interactive:

"Brand architecture... How can you make something that feels inherently like it. It lives there." (54:10)

This includes adapting to virtual and augmented realities, ensuring that brands can evolve alongside technological advancements.

Cara likens brands to cooking ingredients, emphasizing continuous reinvention and creativity:

"A brand isn't a thing that you go and buy and then you're done with it... you have to keep making it." (55:21)

They advocate for brands to remain active and engaging, continuously innovating to stay relevant and emotionally connected with their audience.

10. Conclusion

In wrapping up, Ridd commends Mike and Cara for their passionate and thoughtful approach to branding. He highlights their dedication to maintaining the craft of design over merely chasing profits, inspiring listeners to prioritize emotional connection and genuine creativity in their branding efforts.

"Well, Mike, Cara, thank you for coming on today. You're just so much fun. This was really, really enjoyable..." (56:36)

Mike and Cara's insights underscore the importance of love for the craft, strategic empathy, and the integrated use of technology in creating brands that are not only visually appealing but also emotionally resonant and enduring.

Notable Quotes

• Mike (00:00): "This studio is for the love of the game. Like, I love design. I'm obsessed with design... the fact that I get to make a living out of it is a bonus."

• Cara (04:42): "Our studio apart because people come to us for the way that we design, for the way that we think, for that level of thought that we put into things as opposed to just doing something because it's easy."

• Mike (23:41): "This studio is for the love of the game. Like, you don't have a business need, and then I fulfill that need in a way that's personal and engaging."

• Cara (37:53): "It's about maintaining flexibility and continuously creating, just like cooking with fresh ingredients every day."

Resources Mentioned

• Smith Indiction: Known for the Perplexity brand identity.
• Visual Electric: AI tool similar to Figma, used for generating imagery.
• Genway: AI-powered interviewers for research (special offer available for Dive Club listeners).
• Raycast: Productivity tool recommended by Mike and Cara.

For more details, visit Dive.club to access all episodes, key takeaways, and bonus resources.

This summary captures the essence of the conversation between Ridd, Mike, and Cara Smith, providing valuable insights into modern branding, the integration of AI in design, and the importance of passion-driven creative processes.