← The Dr. Laura Podcast
The Dr. Laura Podcast
What's Your Backstory?: Mike Rowe
00:47:09
Mike Rowe, founder of mikeroweWORKS, joins Dr. Laura for her fifth episode of "What's Your Backstory?" Become an Angel Guild member at https://angel.com/drlaura to stream The Story Behind the Story and unlock Mike Rowe's growing collection of unforgettable stories—plus an entire library of meaningful entertainment. Visit our sponsor page at DrLaura.com/support-our-sponsors
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- [00:00]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
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- [01:00]
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Dr. Laura Schlesinger
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- [01:37]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
When there's someone who is so essential to the well being of people and families in our country, then it's right down my alley. So I'm happy to introduce Mike Rowe. Now, the first time I saw Mike Rowe was I turned the channel and there's some guy sitting in muck. And it caught my attention. Some guy sitting in muck, looking over his shoulder, discussing the muck. And so I kept watching. And this was the show Dirty Jobs. And this is my. That was my introduction to Mike Rowe. Mike, your people sent me a ton of material to introduce you with. My people inundated me for seven straight days with information to introduce you. Why don't you introduce yourself with what you really want people to know about you?
- [02:26]
Mike Rowe
Well, for starters, I just fired all my people, so thank you for that. Secondly, I don't know what to make of that introduction. For a horrible moment there, I thought you were going all biography on me.
- [02:39]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
No, I'm sure that's done all the time to you.
- [02:43]
Mike Rowe
But I guess if I were introduced. Let's see. I Forrest gumped my way into the show you just described called Dirty Jobs. It turned into a Weirdly unexpected hit. It wound up in 143 countries and still airs every day to this day and has for the last 23 years. And inexplicably, a foundation evolved somewhat organically out of this long and smelly odyssey. And I continue to be inundated with the aforementioned muck in all of its various and wonderful forms. And we are trying somehow, through the lens of all of this work, to reinvigorate the skilled trades in our country by making a more persuasive case for a few million great jobs that don't require a four year degree but are sitting there waiting to be filled.
- [03:43]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Are there that many jobs waiting to be filled by skilled labor? Are there really?
- [03:48]
Mike Rowe
Well, there's 7.3 million open jobs in the country. Now. The vast majority of those don't require a four year degree. Many are in manufacturing, many are in the skilled trades. So yeah, that's a big chunk. And There are also 6.9 million able bodied men who for whatever reason are not working or looking for work. That's an interesting statement.
- [04:14]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Well, let's look for the reason. That's one of the concerns I have in doing this program and helping people and families. Why don't, why aren't they. Look, I have so many calls from moms and dads where the kids, the males, the males, the men in our society are just sort of sitting there at home living in the basement and looking at videos.
- [04:36]
Mike Rowe
I hate to paint with too broad a brush, but when you get to that number 6.97 million, that's never happened in this country before. Not in peacetime anyway. And the guest, you should really have to answer that question. You know, with all the impressive credentialing behind, his name is Nick Eberstadt. He wrote an extraordinary book called Men without work in 2005, which became sort of the operating manual for my own foundation to a point and republished it during the lockdowns because everything he had predicted or prophesied came true. So with regard to that cohort, roughly 7 million guys sitting around, the question, at least the first question isn't what are they doing? It's what aren't they doing? And what they're not doing is volunteering through their local church. They're not participating in the Kiwanis Club or the JCS or the Rotary or the Lions Club. They're not involved in SkillsUSA or Future Farmers of America or the 4H Club or the Boy Scouts. They're not taking over 2,000 hours a year that would normally be spent working and bending that into some kind of civic contribution. So that's important because what happened to
- [06:02]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
the concept that we had so long in this country? I mean, even the cowboy era, being a man meant to be productive and have something of theirs. What happened to that mentality of being a man?
- [06:16]
Mike Rowe
Again, a bit out of my lane, but I would say like the frog in the boiling water, it. It slowly lost its luster. For a lot of people. They, I think a lot of guys are inundated with examples of success that they can't emulate. I mean, so much has been written about this weird civil war on masculinity. And if you look for it, Doc, I mean, you know this, you'll. You'll find it. I mean, you could call it toxic masculinity and whatever that meant and however that evolved. But you can go back even before that, in relatively recent times, I think, and, and look for the buffoon on a sitcom, right?
- [07:02]
Walmart Advertiser
He.
- [07:02]
Mike Rowe
He's going to be a dude, right? It's going to be the bumbling husband who just can't get it right. It's going to be kind of like the Everybody Loves Raymond show, you know? Oh, yeah, funny show. Nicely written. Did its thing. I like, I like Ray in real life, but that's the archetype, you know, he's never quite measuring up. The wife or the mother or somebody is going to come in and save him from himself. So portrayals, I think, of masculinity in pop culture are really powerful. And, you know, on Dirty Jobs, that was a completely unscripted show. In fact, we never even did a second take. And the 350 episodes we did. But what we showed in oftentimes were real men who. And I say that not to imply that they're a bunch of unreal men walking around. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But these were guys who were laboring oftentimes out of sight and out of mind, doing something that was in fact essential and empowered by the realization shared among themselves and their fellow workers, that what they were doing really and truly was essential. It really did matter. Those, those guys knew inherently as a group that if they all called in sick for a week or a month, party's over. Now, most of polite society didn't realize that nobody had really tried to pay an honest tribute in a long time on TV anyway, to that cohort. But. And I can't take credit for doing it, I can only tell you that as the show went into seasons two, three and beyond, I realized that under that big Pile of aforementioned muck. And underneath all the poop jokes and underneath all the misadventures and animal husbandry, which were very, very entertaining, and I'm happy to discuss in detail, if you'd like, under. Underneath all of that was a real enthusiasm for the work and a kind of dignity in labor. And look, nobody wants a lecture. Nobody wants a sermon. So I. I worked hard to make sure the. The show didn't do that, but it did pay a consistent, humorous, and sincere tribute to all of those things through, believe it or not, reality tv.
- [09:37]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
How did the men deal with the fact that what they did was largely unknown, unrecognized, and not necessarily respected? I wonder if you had conversations with
- [09:47]
Mike Rowe
the feelings that come from that Many, many conversations. But again, I'm generalizing, but these guys, by and large, are not terribly impressed by feelings. They're. They're more impressed with competence. And, you know, they're the kind of people, if you say, how do you feel? They would. They'd be genuinely a little confused by that.
- [10:17]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
You know, I think I misused the word when I was trying to get to. You're absolutely right. What was their reaction to any discussions about how what they do is looked down upon or ignored?
- [10:29]
Mike Rowe
Yeah, a lot of it would come back through the lens of comfort and our society's desire or resistance to be uncomfortable. They're bemused by that. You know, there's a great book your audience would love by a friend of mine called Michael Easter called the Comfort Crisis. And we just look at all of the ways, historically, the species has been really forced to endure a level of discomfort, whether it's boredom, whether it's hard labor, whether it's exhaustion, whether it's physical effort. You know, so many different ways to be challenged through the lens of comfort. And we've worked real hard in these last couple of generations to. To avoid that at all costs. And. And again, I'm generalizing, but by and large, the people on dirty jobs, they're not down with that. They don't. They don't look at a successful day in terms of, well, how. How comfortable was I.
- [11:39]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
No, I don't think that crosses their mind.
- [11:41]
Mike Rowe
Not at all.
- [11:42]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
So can you tell me a little bit about your foundation and what it does, how it reaches. How it reaches anybody to give them scholarships? How do you get out there, and how do you attract these men to be interested? How do you do that?
- [11:55]
Mike Rowe
Well, full disclosure. The. The foundation started on Labor Day in 2008, and I started it selfishly to have a Different way to promote my show. I, I didn't want to keep talking about the more spectacular elements. Like you just said in your very kind intro, you were flicking around, you saw me sitting in a pile of very suspicious fluids.
- [12:23]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yes.
- [12:23]
Mike Rowe
You were intrigued, right?
- [12:24]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yes.
- [12:25]
Mike Rowe
Now that's well and good. That got a big audience for the show. But I didn't want to spend the rest of my life talking about the various flavors of muck out there that you might want to avoid. I wanted to talk about the guy sitting in it and not me, but the actual worker. So in order to do that, I needed something other than the show. The Microworks foundation evolved as an honest attempt to make a more persuasive case for at the time, 2.3 million good jobs that nobody seemed to want. And the reason I was so interested in this was, you'll remember in 2009, the country was going into a recession and we were obsessed with one data point really and one data point only, and that was the unemployment number, how many people were not working. And every day in the headlines you would see it creep up and up and up. 8, 9, 9 and a half, 10 yet to 12%. You had about 13 million people out of work. And there was this idea in the country that, well, to get those people back to work, we simply need to create more jobs. But underneath of that was the stark reality that there were nearly 3 million open positions that couldn't be filled. So the skills gap, to my way
- [13:48]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
of thinking, why couldn't they be filled? What was the problem?
- [13:53]
Mike Rowe
So stigmas, stereotypes, myths and misconceptions about the nature of a certain category of jobs in our workforce. Parents don't want their kids to be welders because it's a dead end job. Parents don't know that hundreds of welders who have gone through my foundation and many other efforts are making mid six figures today. They have no idea, they just don't believe it. So there's a certain amount of ignorance that persists around these trade jobs. And it's, it's been there since the day we took shop class out of
- [14:32]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
high school, which I remember that.
- [14:35]
Mike Rowe
Oh, I mean, look, I reckon when we look back and you know, make an accounting of the all time harebrained decisions in the long history of modern education, that's going to be near the top of it.
- [14:46]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Right.
- [14:47]
Mike Rowe
The unintended consequences of taking shop class out of high school touch everything. So I just started this foundation because everywhere I was going on dirty jobs during this recession, I saw help wanted signs And I just thought the country ought to hear about the existence of opportunity at a time when we're being told in every screaming 30 font, 30 point headline that there were no jobs. All the jobs are gone. Look at all the unemployed people. The truth is, from what I've read, and I'll quote my friend Nick Eberstadt again from his great book, that number. That unemployment number is an artifact of the Great Depression. Because it's true that once upon a time, you could have put a lot of people back to work by creating more jobs. It tracked. Because when you're standing in a breadline and you have nothing to fall back on and your discomfort is such that you're watching your family starve in front of you, you'll work, right? So. But we're not in that time anymore. We're nowhere close to it. And don't misunderstand me. I'm not. I'm not pining for the good old days when people got hungry and were forced to.
- [16:03]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yeah, the bad old days.
- [16:05]
Mike Rowe
No, no, I'm not doing that. I'm just saying that. Wait a second. We've now come to a point where we can have 7 million guys not working over 7 million open positions and lots and lots of policies in play that are having lots and lots of unintended consequences. So, sorry for the rant, but my foundation started as a PR campaign to get more people interested in these jobs. Today, it's a scholarship fund that sends people.
- [16:35]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
You give how much money to who for What?
- [16:38]
Mike Rowe
We'll do $10 million this year specifically in work ethic scholarships for men and women who want to master a skill that's in demand.
- [16:47]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Work ethic.
- [16:48]
Mike Rowe
Yeah, yeah, I know it's triggering. I'm sure you're horrified. I'm sure you're horrified by that expression, but call me. No, no, not you. But look, a lot of people are. And excuse me, I leaned into that by design because, you know, in the era of DEI and. What? Sure looks like an attack on meritocracy.
- [17:14]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yes, it is.
- [17:16]
Mike Rowe
I wanted to say, look, we have scholarships for academic achievement, for athletic achievement, for artistic achievement. We got scholarships for everything. Where's the money for the young man or woman who wants to show up early, stay late, sit in a pile of muck, if that's what it takes, master a skill that's in demand, and climb the ladder. Where are their scholarships? Well, I couldn't find any. So when we started to raise money for work ethic scholarships, I made it clear that, look, you're gonna have to sign a sweat pledge. You're gonna have to give me references. You're gonna have a second.
- [17:54]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
I have it right here.
- [17:56]
Mike Rowe
Oh, nice.
- [17:57]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Would you mind after we take a break, going through some of these? The second thing I'm going to want to do is, is I went on to AI and I said, how do people criticize Mike Rose work? Because, you know, I'd go on an interview and somebody, wow. There are people who say, you know, and you have to sit there and go, geez, can you line them up? Can you invite them? Can we go out for coffee? So I have some of the criticisms because I wanted to give you the opportunity to set that nonsense straight. Is that okay?
- [18:30]
Mike Rowe
Thank you very much. I'd be honored.
- [18:31]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
All right, we're going to take a break. I'm Dr. Laura Schlesinger with Mike Rowe. Not sitting in muck right now, but talking to us about his foundation merit ethical work skill scholarships. Stay with us. Be right back.
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Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Uh, gonna go with C. Walmart.
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Mike Rowe
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- [21:24]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Become an Angel Guild member to stream the story behind the story and unlock Mike Roe's growing collection of unforgettable stories. Plus an entire library of meaningful entertainment. Join now@angel.com DrLora I'm Dr. Laura Schlesinger having a blast interviewing Mike Rowe. Before I ask you these devastatingly difficult questions that I'm sure you'll just stumble over and I'm sorry, like to ask you, tell the people right now how they can contact you with your foundation for the young men who would like more information and maybe get a scholarship.
- [22:06]
Mike Rowe
Microworks.org My name microworks.org we are currently up to our neck in literally hundreds of thousands of AI proof six figure jobs that our country is struggling to fill. In particular in the dib, that's the defense industrial base. So welders, electricians, steam fitters, pipe fitters, mechanics, CNC operators, shipbuilders, linemen, all in demand like never before. We've got the money to help get you trained. If you've got the will and the work ethic to take a bite out of that future. Microworks.org thank you.
- [22:50]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
I'm sure you'll get a hundred thousand people asking now. All right, the criticisms I found so you get a chance to figure this out for people. Okay? Anti worker Anti union stance. ROE is frequently criticized in labor circles for running campaigns perceived this sounds strange to me. Anti worker. All you're talking about is worker. So what does that mean? What does that even mean?
- [23:23]
Mike Rowe
It depends how you set the table. We've got 3,500 people who have gone through our program, all of whom are working. Many are working in unions Many aren't. I couldn't care less, honestly. And the reason is because there's a difference between labor and work and I've got no truck with unions at all. But the environment that exists between labor and management is a binary and b, hostile by definition, and it will never change. So for my friends who are in the unions, and I belong to a couple myself incidentally, so, yeah, that criticism was tame. Normally it comes with scab, hypocrite, turncoat and a bunch of other things. But the problem is there is a very loud, very vocal drama that will always exist between labor and management that has nothing to do with the larger macroeconomic and geopolitical realities of a skills gap. Nothing at all. Look, there's something like 8 and a half percent of the workforce in this country is in a union. That leaves, if I'm doing the math right, over 90% of people who aren't and never will.
- [24:47]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Ah.
- [24:48]
Mike Rowe
So look, I, I can hold two thoughts in my head at the same time, but I can't have two conversations at the same time. So when I do get sucked in to a labor management dispute, I, I try to step back and just say, look, guys, it's not that I'm not rooting for you, it's just that I don't have a dog in this hunt. And the honest answer to your question is that level of nuance is reacted to as he's against us. Because I'm either with you, I'm either with you or again, you.
- [25:23]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Right? That's the mentality out there.
- [25:25]
Mike Rowe
That's it. So I understand why and I, and I really, truly don't have an issue. Well, you know what? That's not entirely true. To be fair, I think some unions miss the point. I think some.
- [25:38]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Is that being political?
- [25:41]
Mike Rowe
Well, yeah. I mean, look, it's First Amendment. You're, you're free to vote, you're free to join. You ought to be free not to join. But I would not compare like the steelworkers union or the Rodbusters local or some of the electric unions. I know. I just wouldn't compare them with the teachers union or the seiu. Yeah, right. I just, I just don't think it's fair to paint with that broad a brush. But look, I, I get it. I am not unilaterally out there to make a more persuasive case for union membership. I'm out there to say these jobs, union or not, are extraordinary. And the three non union electricians I just met in a data center in plano all under 30, all making north of $230,000 a year. No. No debt of any kind.
- [26:36]
Walmart Advertiser
Right.
- [26:36]
Mike Rowe
All starting their families.
- [26:38]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
They don't have college debt for 20 years.
- [26:41]
Mike Rowe
They have zero debt. They're making close to a quarter million a year. And here's the craziest part, all right? It's not only non union, they've been poached three times in the last 18 months from other data center. Data center operations. So I'm just looking at supply and demand. I'm trying not to paint with too broad a brush. And I realize there are exceptions to everything I'm saying. I just don't care. With respect, I can't care about everything all the way up to 11.
- [27:21]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
So often I just don't care. Somebody pissed off about that. I just don't care. All right, let me ask you another one.
- [27:28]
Mike Rowe
All right.
- [27:29]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Oh, God. Let's see if you can make me laugh twice.
- [27:31]
Mike Rowe
Sorry.
- [27:32]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Superficial portrayal of labor on television. Roe is a millionaire. That's it. You're not a multi millionaire. Jeez. Is a millionaire celebrity who experiences physical labor as a temporary participant. Critics on platforms argue his shows and foundations often fail to educate viewers on the physical tolls, the long term health risks and the lack of economic stability associated with these jobs.
- [28:03]
Mike Rowe
Yeah, that's probably true, you know, but look, it's also true. If you grab. If you're blind and you grab the tusk of the elephant, you might conclude the entire thing is made of ivory, right? Grab the tail, you'll conclude something else. This is a TV show, guys. You know, I. It can't be all things to all people all the time. It is true. I made a bunch of money. But what's even more true and more alarming to people is that before Dirty Jobs, I had maybe 300 jobs in the entertainment industry. I sang in the Baltimore Opera for eight years. I sold things in the middle of the night on the QVC cable shopping channel, often under the influence of some wine, which I had with dinner and so forth. Like there's a long list of things that I did before I got marginally famous, working in an unscripted way with actual workers that create a kind of cognitive dissonance in the minds of the people I was discussing earlier. Those in a binary world who have their own acts to grind, they have their own agenda. And so look, and I don't blame them, you know, if. If I were a stonemason and I turned on the TV and I saw Mike Rowe attempting to build a wall with an expert and and making mistakes along the way. I might say that guy's a dilettante, which is true. I might conclude any number of things and decide I just don't like the way my profession is being portrayed on this particular segment. Oh, that's fine. Dirty Jobs, Laura, more than anything else, was a mosaic. It was 350 different jobs. And to assign the same level of meaning or relevance to all of them would be crazy. This thing was a patchwork.
- [30:11]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
I want to argue with you on that and be on your side when it doesn't even sound like you're on your side. In watching that program, I saw you having humorful moments. You screwed up. Obviously, half the time did not know what you were doing. You had to be corrected and shown how to do it. And what I liked about that is that it made. Gave respect to the person next to you who did this and could do it right. So if some stonemason is watching this and feels that this is not showing what I do in a good light, it's showing what you do. And before you did that show, people did not even know those jobs existed. So frankly, dear, don't give a damn.
- [30:53]
Mike Rowe
Well, thank you. And you know, I really, I. Look, life would be better if everyone liked me. Life would be easier if everyone understood what I meant every time I, I mouth off.
- [31:07]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Oh, ditto, Bug.
- [31:09]
Mike Rowe
I. So, you know, you, you, you just have to remember that TV is the shallow end of the pool. And what Dirty Jobs gave people was a glimpse, yes, into hundreds of lives and hundreds of different vocations. And the benefit of that is that there's a deep end of the pool and you can have your second screen experience. And if you see something you like, or maybe your kid sees something that resonates, maybe that opens a portal, maybe you learn more.
- [31:38]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
That was the ultimate point, not to make any one of those particular jobs look anything. So let me ask you, you have this sweat pledge that people, if they're going to get a scholarship, they have to sign this.
- [31:51]
Mike Rowe
Oh, yeah.
- [31:52]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
And what is a sweat pledge? I mean, there's a period after each letter SW So what does that mean?
- [31:59]
Mike Rowe
Well, that stands for skill and work ethic aren't taboo. And that's how terribly clever I am in the middle of the night after some more of the aforementioned wine. How do you, how do you quantify somebody's work ethic? Right. I can't look into your soul and see whatever character might be there. All I can do if you want a scholarship from my foundation is challenge you to Make a persuasive case for yourself. Provide me with the kinds of references any employer would want. Write an essay. I don't care too much about your gpa, but I do care about your attendance, right? So I want to look at those things. And yes, I wrote this thing on a lark one night. There are 12 points in the sweat pledge. All of them are personal statements of belief.
- [32:53]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
May I go through some of them with you?
- [32:55]
Mike Rowe
I'd be honored.
- [32:56]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Okay. Number one, I believe this is the person speaking who wants the scholarship. I believe I have won the greatest lottery of all time. I'm alive. I walk the earth. I live in America. Above all things, I am grateful. I personally thought that was the smartest way to start this pledge.
- [33:18]
Mike Rowe
Well, thank you. It wasn't originally in the number one position, but as I looked at it, you know, I asked myself what. What feelings can be in place that would make it impossible for me to feel sorry for myself?
- [33:40]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Gratitude.
- [33:41]
Mike Rowe
That's it.
- [33:43]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Number two. Sorry. I believe that I am entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and nothing more. I also understand that happiness in the pursuit of happiness are not the same thing. Well, what do you mean there?
- [34:03]
Mike Rowe
Well, there's a lot of talk right now about the American dream. You know, it's our semi quincentennial coming up. We're going to be 250 years old, and people ask me now all the time, you know, what's your take, Mike? Alive. Not alive. Alive and well. What's the status of the American dream? And partly because I like to be somewhat contrarian in these things, but also honest, my answer is I think the American dream died. And thank God it did. It died a long time ago in 1783, when we signed the Treaty of Paris. And the dream that we had to become the country we are was finally turned into a reality. So life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness and these inalienable rights that we were talking about prior to 1783 were so heretical, so unbelievably unattainable that they could only be described as a dream. And so they were. Until we won the most consequential war in the history of the world and signed some documents and then went about the business of forming a republic and trying to keep it. That was the dream. It was made real. The American dream is gone because the American reality is here. And if you disagree with that, we can still be friends. There's no problem. If you don't want to sign that, sweat that that pledge because you. You hold A different view. It's just that this particular pile of free money is probably not for you.
- [35:53]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
That's it. Number three. I believe there's no such thing as a bad job. I believe that all jobs are opportunities and it's up to me to make the best of them.
- [36:07]
Mike Rowe
Yeah, that, that happened. I wrote that because somebody had asked me years ago to talk seriously about the dignity of work. They asked me what that meant.
- [36:21]
Walmart Advertiser
Right.
- [36:21]
Mike Rowe
And it occurred to me that a lot of people in our country today believe dignified work is a reflection of the circumstances in which the work is completed. Is it hot? Is it cold? Is it dangerous? Does it stink? How's your lunch break? Are there perks? Do you like your boss? Are you treated with respect? All these things, in some people's minds, many, I would say, add up to making a job either dignified or undignified. The more Calvinist approach that I favor really says, well, does your work bless someone else? Yes, that's it. Now the trick is, our economy today is filled with very lucrative pursuits that are inherently undignified, influencering. There you go. There you go. You're not really. Your, Your efforts, while lucrative, are not really improving anyone's life.
- [37:36]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Not really.
- [37:37]
Mike Rowe
You're.
- [37:37]
Caller John
You're.
- [37:38]
Mike Rowe
You're making a living selling cotton candy. Right? So, okay, good for you. You cracked the code. You figured it out in whatever rubric we're in right now. But the real love letter to Dirty Jobs was like, I mean, a garbage. It started with a garbage man in Chinatown, this whole show. And it was all based on the fact that if that guy doesn't do his job, oh gosh, it's over. Yeah, like, I mean, it is. Riot in the streets. Pretty quick. So, you know, collecting garbage, I would argue, is deeply dignified and more so than many other lucrative pursuits.
- [38:22]
Walmart Advertiser
So that's so.
- [38:23]
Mike Rowe
Well, that's why I wrote that.
- [38:24]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
That is so well said.
- [38:26]
Mike Rowe
No thanks.
- [38:27]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Number four. I do not follow my passion. I bring it with me. I believe that any job can be done with passion and enthusiasm. I'm not even going to ask you to speak on that. That one's self explanatory. The next one, Considering how things are going, I deplore debt and I do all I can to avoid it. I would rather live in a tent and eat beans, then borrow money to pay for a lifestyle I can't afford. That changes the baseline for everything.
- [39:01]
Mike Rowe
Yeah, I think so. It's the only. It's the only four letter word in my household growing up that was truly off limits. You know you avoid debt with great scrupulousness. You must. You must. So, look, I understand how hard it is today. I know what the cost of a single family home is right now. I get the circumstances. I really and truly get it. And people hate me for writing that. And they. And they. They get very angry at that one. But if you read it carefully, I'm not. I'm not saying you can't borrow money to live. I'm saying you mustn't borrow money to subsidize a lifestyle that you can't afford and that you don't absolutely need. And again, which means you can stay
- [39:46]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
home with your kids.
- [39:48]
Mike Rowe
That's right.
- [39:50]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
You can't shut me up on that, Number six. I'm sorry, I.
- [39:54]
Mike Rowe
Don't make any trouble, Doc. I don't want to make any trouble. I'm just calling them as I see them.
- [39:59]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
If you're around me, you'll get in trouble. Number six, I believe that my safety is my responsibility. That drives a lot of critics nuts. I understand that being in compliance does not necessarily mean I'm out of danger.
- [40:13]
Mike Rowe
That's a biggie. That is a biggie. And if we had more time, I'd tell you the whole story behind it. But the short version is Dirty Jobs is a very dangerous show. And for the first couple seasons, nobody in my crew, including me, got hurt because we were hyper focused on our circumstances. And we went through all the safety protocols. Lockout, tag out, confined space. We had each other's backs. We were focused. Season three, everything went to hell. Broken fingers, broken toes, stitches, concussions, all kinds of things. It just went off the rails. And what happened was my crew and I got very comfortable and complacent. The real devil in vocational work is complacency. And the safety first approach is rooted in protocols, compulsory checklists, and compliance. And what I learned through many, many, many misadventures is that you can be 100% in compliance and still really get hurt.
- [41:29]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Sure.
- [41:29]
Mike Rowe
And so I started to take issue with the safety first way of thinking. I suggested that safety third would be a more reasonable way to organize it if you were to make the mistake of trying to put it in some kind of hierarchy anyway. Safety always is the only commonsensical way to think about safety. But this idea that your boss or your employer might care more about your well being than you do, ouch. That's the beginning of pain. That's the be. That's when you take your eye off the ball. That's when you're not tied off properly. That's when you take an unnecessary chance on the top rung of the ladder. And complacency is the enemy. And the most well intended compliance protocols oftentimes foster the enemy in spite of their intentions. So it's just a way of saying heads up in the end. Sorry. I'm sorry to sound like Horatio Alger. I'm sorry to sound like your body. It's your ult.
- [42:39]
State Farm Advertiser
Yeah.
- [42:39]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Okay, you have to take a break and if you would like to call in, I still have so much to ask and talk about, but I may squeeze you in. Give us a call at 800-375-2872 if you'd like to talk to Mike Rowe. I'm having a ball, so get aboard. 800-375-2872. I'm going to take a break. Be right back.
- [43:07]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard but not the pipeline? That's bullspend and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.
- [43:16]
My boss asked for results so I open my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions.
- [43:23]
Cut the bull Spend. See revenue not just reach LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad NETWORKS. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a 250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply.
- [43:37]
Walmart Advertiser
Welcome back to Sugar get it delivered contestant.
- [43:42]
You're out of food and you're meds but are too tired to get up. Do you A pout B beg your roommate or C get Walmart to deliver it all Same day.
- [43:51]
Same day. Who knew?
- [43:53]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Uh, gonna go with say Walmart.
- [43:55]
Walmart Advertiser
That is correct.
- [43:57]
Walmart offers same day delivery for prescriptions, groceries and more.
- [44:00]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
I love not leaving my couch.
- [44:02]
Walmart Advertiser
Walmart.
- [44:03]
Mike Rowe
Who knew Subject to availability restrictions, medication exclusions and fees apply.
- [44:07]
State Farm Advertiser
Having the right people in your corner for life's biggest milestones makes all the difference. Like a friend who's there when you're house hunting or checking out a new ride. State Farm is there too, helping you choose the coverage you need. With a State Farm agent, you know someone is there to help you along the way. And with so many coverage options, it's nice knowing you have help choosing a plan that fits your needs so you can continue celebrating all of life's milestones. Head to statefarm.com to get a quote. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is
- [44:36]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
there
- [44:38]
Eggland's Best Advertiser
for my family. I'm always at my best. That's why I also want the best in my kitchen. And that means only Eglin's best eggs. They're always so fresh tasting and delicious, with 6 times more vitamin D, 10 times more vitamin E, and 25% less saturated fat than ordinary eggs. So why give your family less when they can have the best Eggland's best Better taste, better nutrition, better eggs. For added convenience, look for our hard cooked, peeled eggs.
- [45:06]
LifeLock Advertiser
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- [45:09]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Oh, no.
- [45:11]
LifeLock Advertiser
That's why LifeLock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats to your identity, which is way more do on their own. If we find anything suspicious, like new loans or changes to your financial accounts, we alert you right away, all through text, phone, email, or the LifeLock app. Get the alerts that could make all the difference. Save up to 30% your first year@lifelock.com podcast terms apply.
- [45:41]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Become an Angel Guild member to stream the story behind the story and unlock Mike Rowe's growing collection of unforgettable stories, plus an entire library of meaningful entertainment. Join now@angel.com DrLora we're going to some questions. I'm Dr. Laura Schlesinger sitting here with Mike Rowe. Okay, so let me get to some questions before I nag you about other things.
- [46:10]
Mike Rowe
Certainly.
- [46:10]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Let's get my little pink mouse here.
- [46:16]
Walmart Advertiser
Okay.
- [46:17]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
I have to.
- [46:17]
Mike Rowe
Does your mouse match your blouse, by the way? Yeah, I can't help but notice.
- [46:21]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yeah, I'm pretty consistent.
- [46:23]
Mike Rowe
Total fuchsia. All in. Good for you.
- [46:27]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Okay, John, welcome to the program. What is your question for Mike?
- [46:32]
Caller John
Thank you, Dr. Lara. Mike, I've always enjoyed your narration of the Deadliest Catch series. And I've also heard you narrate programs on space and the universe. I used to be in radio decades ago, and what I was interested in asking you was what is your environment when you're actually laying down the lines for the programs? Where are you? Are you reading from a hard script? That kind of. That's what I'm interested in.
- [47:03]
Mike Rowe
That's a terrific question, John. By and large, I'm in a recording studio called One Union. I try and do most, most of that work when I'm home in Northern California. But I live on the road. I live in hotels. So those shows, how the universe works and Deadliest Catch in particular, have been narrated. Sometimes I'll make a pillow fort on my bed and I'll drag the microphone under the pillows and I'll. And I'll set up my computer right. And I'll. And I'll literally, I'll be on my hands and knees on a dirty carpet in a hotel Room reading from my script underneath a pile of pillows. So, you know, I. A couple years ago, this one's even better. I. The network got under the gun, and it was neither one of those shows. It was some. Some special about, you know, some wildebeest traveling across the vast reaches of the Baron Serengeti, but pausing at water hole only to be consumed by hyenas and lions. They needed that immediately. And I was at Gettysburg shooting something else. And so I took a quilt and I draped it over a cannon, and I sat underneath the quilt of this cannon and read the script from Gettysburg. And 36 hours later, it was on the air, so. So, John, it's all about the glamour, brother. It's all about the glamour.
- [48:38]
Caller John
Yeah. That's awesome. Because I had often wondered where you. Did you see the video while you were reading the script or anything along those lines. That's some interesting insights. Thank you.
- [48:48]
Mike Rowe
Well, you're welcome. And at that final point, sometimes. Yes, that's called reading to picture. And that's a different set of muscles. When you're sitting there and you're narrating with one eye on the script and another eye on the screen, and you're lining it up as you go, that's kind of like doing it live. But that rarely happens anymore because everything's digital.
- [49:07]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Thank you, John. Okay. I'm really picturing all of those things now. A few more of your sweat pledges that they must sign. By the way, have you ever had somebody refuse to sign?
- [49:21]
Mike Rowe
Every year. Hundreds.
- [49:22]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
And which of the elements in this do they object to?
- [49:27]
Mike Rowe
The safety is a big one. Parents will get involved with that one. The gratitude is a big one. All the ones you've mentioned.
- [49:37]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Why is the gratitude a big one, do you think?
- [49:40]
Mike Rowe
Well, because nobody wants a lecture and nobody wants a sermon, and nobody wants to feel like they're being weighed and measured on some kind of virtue scale. And look, you can't do that in business, and you probably shouldn't do that in. In media. Right? At least if you want a big, wide audience. But in a foundation. I'm sorry. You know, I'm. I'm very stingy with the money that people contribute to Microworks. I treat it like it's my own. And I, you know, I just figure we ought to have some rubric from which to operate some. Some basic set of shared values.
- [50:24]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Well, what you're asking. That is you're wanting to know. It's not a grumpy, angry, bitter person.
- [50:31]
Caller John
I mean.
- [50:32]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yes, yeah, yeah, that's.
- [50:35]
Mike Rowe
That's really, it.
- [50:36]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Yes. All right. I believe the. I like the word I believe. I believe the best way to distinguish myself at work is to show up early, stay late, cheerfully volunteer for every crappy task there is. That's so you.
- [50:54]
Mike Rowe
Yeah.
- [50:54]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Anybody refused to sign that?
- [50:57]
Mike Rowe
Well, I mean, look, I think some people who take umbrage keep their mouth shut and sign it anyway. Like I said, I can't look into your soul.
- [51:06]
Walmart Advertiser
Right?
- [51:06]
Mike Rowe
I don't know. But yes. You're going back to your earlier labor question, that this is what really tweaks those that cohort. They, they, they read all these things that you've just read and they say, not, not unjustifiably, that all of those things benefit the employer. Wouldn't it be great, right, if an employer could have employees who were industrious and curious and inquisitive? Wouldn't initiative be a wonderful thing? Like if you're an employer, wouldn't that be a great quality to have in your employees? And the answer is, yeah, it would. And so, you know, if I'm trapped in that binary conversation between, well, you know, is this a pro labor document or is this a pro management document? Then I'll get dinged as writing a pro management document. But if the question is, will the individual, long term, over the course of his or her life, benefit from believing these tenants, my answer is unequivocally, of course, yes.
- [52:22]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
They'll have more self esteem because they have pride in themselves.
- [52:26]
Mike Rowe
Absolutely.
- [52:26]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
It doesn't matter what management is ultimately. Excuse me. When you go home, it's your head on your back pillow.
- [52:34]
Mike Rowe
Managers come and go, jobs come and go. You're still you.
- [52:38]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Believe it or not, the hour is gone crazy.
- [52:43]
Mike Rowe
How's it possible?
- [52:44]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
That was a lot of fun and very informative. And please, your last words again.
- [52:48]
Mike Rowe
How people reach microworks.org the money is there. We literally $10 million this year to help train the next generation of skilled workers. I, I am earnest in this. It's, it's there. Our supporters have been great and we've helped over 3, 500 people.
- [53:06]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Thank you.
- [53:09]
Mike Rowe
Sirius XM Triumph is life presenting you with challenges? Get real answers with Dr. Laurel. Call 1-800- Dr. Laura.
- [53:18]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
No nonsense advice about relationships, marriage, kids, tough love. It happened is not a phrase anybody uses when they take responsibility.
- [53:26]
Mike Rowe
Inspiration.
- [53:27]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
Every time you go to bed with a negative thought, you have to match it up with a positive one.
- [53:31]
Mike Rowe
That's your new rule, Dr. Laura. Weekdays at 2pm east on Sirius XM Triumph 123 and on the Sirius XM app.
- [53:39]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Are your ad campaigns lighting up the dashboard but not the pipeline? That's bullspin and marketers are calling it out in dashboard confessions.
- [53:48]
My boss asked for results so I open my dashboard for the only positive sounding metric I had. Impressions.
- [53:55]
Cut the bull spend. See revenue not just reach LinkedIn delivers the highest return on ad spend of major ad NETWORKS. Advertise on LinkedIn. Spend 250 on your first campaign and get a 250 credit. Go to LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply.
- [54:09]
Walmart Advertiser
Welcome back to Sugar get it delivered contestant.
- [54:14]
You're out of food and you're meds but are too tired to get up. Do you a pout B beg your roommate or C get Walmart to deliver it all same day Same day Who
- [54:24]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
knew uh gonna go with C Walmart.
- [54:28]
Walmart Advertiser
That is correct.
- [54:29]
Walmart offers same day delivery for prescriptions, groceries and more.
- [54:32]
Dr. Laura Schlesinger
I love not leaving my couch.
- [54:34]
Walmart Advertiser
Walmart who knew Subject to availability restrictions,
- [54:37]
Mike Rowe
medication exclusions and fees apply.