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Dressed: The History of Fashion
Dolly Parton's Life Lived in Rhinestones: Behind the Seams with Rebecca Seaver, Part I (Dressed Classic)
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Please enjoy One of our favorite episodes from the Dressed archive of over 500 plus shows. The history of Fashion is a production of dressed media. With over 8 billion people in the world, we all have one thing in common. Every day, we all get dressed.
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Welcome to Dressed the History of Fashion, a podcast where we explore the who, what, when of why we wear. We are fashion historians and your hosts, April Callah and Cassidy Zachary.
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Dress listeners. I'm going to try to not cry this entire introduction because same same same same. This is a very, very special week on the podcast dedicated to one of the most beloved singer songwriters in the world and one of my all time favorite people. The one, the only Dolly Parton. Yay. And I know I am not alone when I say that my love for Dolly knows no bounds and she has had an incredibly special place in my heart ever since I was a little girl when I was first introduced to the storytelling art that is her music. She writes songs as an artist, paints on canvas, as a fashion designer drapes on the human form.
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Yes, and let me just say I've been a lifelong Dolly Parton fan since I was born, so I share similar sentiments, Cass. But this comparison that you just made as a fashion designer drapes on the human form. That reference is an especially fitting comparison considering that she is also synonymous with a fabulous and bedazzled signature style that transcends fashion. And it is this style that is the subject of the book that we are here to talk about today. And listen to Dolly Parton's behind the My Life in Rhinestones.
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And while Dolly's style is certainly iconic. She does not actually consider herself a fashion icon.
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I don't know how that can be possible.
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In fact she has said it still makes me laugh when people call me a fashion icon. I always say I'm more like an eye sore. And I mean this amazing woman leads with love and laughter as just exhibited and all that she does and this joy really radiates out of her right and she puts it into her music and she shares it with her legion of adoring fans who cherish her for the gift she truly is.
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And Dolly's self deprecating sense of humor and her giant heart are just few of the many things we love about this inimitable woman. And this of course includes her signature style that, as we will learn in this week's two part episode, speaks to more than just a love for the glittering it speaks to the very heart and soul of who Dolly is. But don't take our word for it. Let's hear from Dolly herself. Dolly will actually not be joining us today, but we are so excited to be able to share a full different sound bites from the audio version of her book with you this week. Starting with this one.
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C
Clothes are like songs Just as hearing certain music brings back particular memories, so it is with certain outfits. I am so fortunate that from the beginning of my career, close friends and relatives have taken good care of the clothing that is important to me. From personal items like the little bolero vest that I wore while performing as a child and my simple wedding dress to such gorgeous costumes as the red dress that turned me into Ms. Mona in the Best Little Whorehouse in Texas, to everything that I've worn on stage. Each of these garments signifies something important. A place in life, a moment in my career, a time when I felt like me. And I treasure them all. Behind the Seams My Life in Rhinestones tells the stories behind some of my favorite outfits both on and off stage. It also paints a picture of the evolution of my own personal style that I first developed growing up in the backwoods of East Tennessee.
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And while Dolly will not be joining us this week, I am so very pleased to share that her niece and archive director Rebecca Seaver is as we will learn today, Rebecca grew up with Dolly and has observed and played no small role in Dolly's ever evolving style and and I am actually going to let Dolly herself introduce Rebecca.
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My niece, Rebecca Seaver has been an integral part of my career for years and has curated the special collection that you're about to hear about selecting these pieces from among thousands of garments that she and her crew care for. Nobody in this world is better suited to working in my archive. She is perfect because she's been there from the very, very beginning. And she also loves clothes. She grew up with me. Everything I did, she was part of. And she knowed every dress I ever wore, how it looked, how it felt, how it smelled. No one else could have put together the ideas for this book better than Rebecca.
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And we are so excited for Rebecca to take us behind the seams of Dolly's life lived in rhinestones. Rebecca, welcome to Dressed.
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A
Rebecca, welcome to Dressed. I am so excited to talk to you today.
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C
Hi.
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D
Well, I am excited to be here. I'm super excited to talk to you.
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And we are here, of course, because you played a huge part in creating the recently released, wildly successful Dolly Parton book, Behind the My Life in Rhinestones, which, as the title promises, takes us behind the seams and into Dolly's sparkly and glitter filled life. And I have to say, as a lifelong Dolly Parton fan and a fashion historian and fashion lover, this book is a gift. I mean, it is everything I ever could have imagined and so much more. So thank you so much. And also, just congratulations.
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D
Thank you. That makes me so happy to hear because this has been a three year project that was an absolute labor of love. It's so special to me on so many different levels. So to hear that somebody like you, who also. I'm the same way. I love history. I love the history of fashion. I love the history of showgirls. And so this book kind of encompassed everything and also included a lady that I love the most.
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A
And the fact that it was a labor of love just shows from the beginning to end. This book is just so beautifully illustrated and there's just so much heart in each and every page. So I'm so excited to dig into it with you further. But first, I kind of want to get to know you a bit. You are the director of archive services for Dolly Parton, the internationally beloved songstress and rhinestone queen. But I want to hear about your path to that position, maybe starting with your younger years memories of your aunt and her approach to dressing. Because not a lot of people can say they played dress up in Dolly Parton's clothes.
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D
Yeah, well, she's so tiny. I could only play dress up till I was about 12, and then I've never been able to fit into anything ever again. A lot of people don't realize, I guess if they read the book pretty thoroughly, they've figured it out that I am her family. My mom and her are sisters. My mom is her sister Cassie. And Cassie and I were always really close to Dolly growing up. Even where we lived was really close to her house. I've just kind of grown up right underneath her. I felt like I was always her baby because I was her goddaughter as well as her niece. And we share a very special bond that I call our little life. Because it's not public. It's not about her being an icon. She's my. I call her granny because she's kind of like a grandmother to me. And, yeah, she's my granny. I love her to the moon. She is just an absolute gem of a person. What you see on TV is absolutely who she is. She loves people and she gives a lot. And I'm very, very lucky and so very grateful.
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And how did you start working for Dolly? I think you started out as a performer in the Dolly universe, and then it grew from there.
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D
Yeah, I always was interested in fashion. I got my first sewing machine at a 14 and started making my own. I was a dancer growing up in tap, jazz, ballet. So I kind of was making my own costumes as a kid, and she noticed that as well. And so when I was in my teenage years, she would let me go shopping for her and I would style some outfits and put that in her closet for her to wear around. And, you know, it was always the thing that she let me do. And then basically, as an adult, I was looking to get into more of the production field because I am a producer of live entertainment and live shows. And so that was my my passion. And so I worked with her as a production manager for a very long time. But within that, I was working as her creative director's assistant, Steve Summers. And Steve also designed all of her clothes. And so I was working in the costumes. I was rhinestoning stuff. I rhinestoned all of her guitars for the last few years.
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A
I love that so much.
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D
I count how many colors bar a guitar I did that. I'm so proud of. And, yeah, it just kept growing. Like, I felt like I had worked with everybody important in the company as an assistant, so I knew the ins and outs of everything. And when her best friend Judy retired, there was an opening in who was going to take care of her costume archives. And, you know, my Aunt Rachel already takes care of her print media archives. So I felt maybe we could work together and kind of get the costumes on that as well.
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A
And we're going to learn more about that in a minute because talk about dream job and I can't wait. I have so many questions for you. But first, I just want to hear a little bit about the inspiration behind this book, which you have called Dolly's Book of Many Colors, which Dolly Parton fans will of course get that reference.
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D
Yeah. In 2020, she released the Songteller Coffee Table book. That was my life and lyrics. And basically as soon as that project was on the books, I was thinking in my head, okay, well, next if they'll do another one, like, we could do a follow up about costumes. And so I had this little idea percolating in my mind and I hadn't really told anybody about it because you're just doing the work day to day. And once the Songteller book stuff had kind of died down, I had a friend of mine here in town who's a brilliant graphic designer who had worked in publishing, and I asked her to put together a mock up for me. And I already had the name. I had a bunch of the chapter names already. I had a vision for what I wanted it to look like. I just needed Dolly and the right components, which was Holly George Warren, because she was incredible in the whole project. She took it over the line for me. But yeah, it was just this little idea that I had and I pitched it at a meeting with her management and everybody loved it. And the rest is, as they say, herstory.
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A
Yes, fashion herstory. And as the director of Dolly's archive, it was your job to curate this selection that is featured in this book. And this could not have been an easy task because there are thousands upon thousands of pieces that comprise her archive. It covers her six decade plus career. Can you tell us about the Dolly Parton archive? How was it created and what is it comprised of?
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D
Yeah, Dolly's archive is comprised of so many different things that have been a part of her life in her career. I think she was really lucky and still is very lucky to have people around her that absolutely have her best intentions at heart, which is mostly her family, but also her best friend. Judy Ogle was with her in the early days. And they've been friends since they were six years old. And they are still like little girls playing dress up when they're together. It's the cutest, sweetest friendship you've ever seen. But I think Judy and Dolly's sisters really had an understanding of, we gotta save this stuff, you know, And I think that comes from all of them grew up in poverty, they didn't have anything, especially Anything nice. And so I think when Dolly started having these really nice things that were made for her, they just knew, we've got to save this, We've got to take care of it. We've got to keep this. This is important. And so, you know, I always grew up knowing that that stuff was on Dolly's property in her storage. And I can. I'd always been just fascinated with everything, but I really didn't know a lot about it. I didn't know who all the designers were. I didn't have an understanding of all of the real details. But as a kid, you're just blown away by all of the flounce of it all. Markles and the colors and it's just, you know, it's everything. I always say, like, I don't think there's another closet that's as exciting as Dolly's. Except for maybe Cher and Tina Turner.
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Oh, yeah.
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D
But, yeah, I think she was really lucky to have those women around her that really had her best interests at heart. And so Judy's life work was taking care of that archive and making sure that not only costumes were saved, but you know, the instruments, the scripts, the accessories, the gifts from other, the, you know, photos, magazines, everything. I mean, they held on to everything. And I mean, it's all meticulously organized. You know, we're really. We try to have as much of a museum standard as we can. We're not a museum, so it's, you know, it's a little bit spun. But, you know, we have a vested interest to make sure that everything is taken care of. And for me personally, I feel like this is my way to take care of Dolly on a personal level because it's. This is her legacy. These are the things that will stay forever when she. And so it's very important really, you know, she takes care of her. But to be able to in this way is like beyond special. It is such a personal calling as well as a professional one.
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A
Yeah, her team is so special to her. It reverberates across everything she does, right? That love and that care. Every single thing that Dolly does. And again, so evidenced in this book, everything you just talked about.
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Yeah, it's hard. That was definitely the hardest part of curating the collection for this book because I had so many favorites and I mean, we had. I think we photographed 250 garments, but we only put 75 in the book.
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Now I need to do a follow up book.
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Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think Dolly has already said something about wanting to do another one. So, you know, I'm ready. Although it's nice to take a little bit of a break because it was a long work.
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Yeah, I'm sure.
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But for me, I wanted to make sure that we told the story of her life with the high points as well as some of the smaller stepping stones to those high points. Because I'm a huge Dolly fan, as well as her family and her employees, I am obsessed with her career, her music and her movies and her writing, everything. So as a fan, I knew that there were certain things the fans wanted to see. And I talked to fans. I'm very close with some of the people that have followed her for years. I mean, I know them, I've seen them and talked to them since I was a kid. So it's just like family, friends. But they're also people that follow her around to every tour date, which I don't know how they doing, but they have this dedication. And so I wanted to please those people. I wanted them to be able to see things that they had experienced. Their first Dolly concert, they saw that dress and, you know, we even had one of her many Dolly fans, his name's Patrick. He has his own Dolly museum in his house. And he has bought very. He's bought a lot of different Dolly costumes that have been auctioned over the years for like foundations and stuff. And so he actually had an album cover that we really wanted to shoot. And so I called him and was like, hey, can we borrow for like a week or two and I'll bring it right back to you. And, you know, we want to shoot it for the book. And he was so excited to have his dress a part of it. And that was exciting for me too, because it actually had a couple things that we fixed that I don't think he had been able to or even knew that it needed to be fixed, you know, so that was nice to be able to bring that home to the archive, kind of give it like a little judge and then send her back out because she belongs to somebody else now.
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A
And of course, the archives comprised of her clothing and those kind of iconic sparkly rhinestone dresses. But something I was surprised about, although I. If I thought about it, it makes perfect sense, is the wigs that are in the archive.
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D
So those are actually replicas.
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Okay.
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Donnelly does not save wigs because what she says is that, you know, she uses human hair wigs. They get used and restyled over and over again, so they become different things. And by the time they're done being restyled, those girls are not going on. They're not cute. They have to be retired forever. But I'm a drag performer and a burlesque performer, so I know lots of people that make incredible wigs. And so immediately when I knew we were going to do these wig replicas, because that was one of the things in my mockup of the book, was I wanted a wig timeline, I immediately went to a couple of different girls that do hair. One was Sarah Neisha in London. She does these incredible vintage Dolly styles. And so I first wanted to talk to her. And then Sarah Andrews, my two Sarahs. She's here locally. She's a drag performer as well. And, you know, I've known her for so long, and her hair is just so incredible. So it made sense to me to have those two replicate the hair so that we could have that represented. Because, like I said, as a drag performer, the wigs were really important for me to showcase, and I wanted it to be perfect.
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A
Yeah, for sure. And especially just as a staple of. Of Dolly's look. Right. Her hair is just so iconic. And I don't think I ever stopped to consider that they're wigs, but it makes perfect sense. And I loved reading in the book, too. It was like once she started touring, she had something like 200 wigs she was using. So from almost the beginning, it's just incredible.
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D
It's wild. You know, I am just blown away. Like, we have a lot of hair that's in the archive that, like, the replicas. We have all of those now. They're up on a cute little wig shelf. We have everything displayed so that we can use it, because we have been using them for different museum displays that we've been doing. So. Yeah, it's just the archives are exactly what you would think. There's wigs, there's shoes, there's sparkle, there's feathers. It's a snow girl closet, for sure.
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A
And if I understand correctly, are there also historical artifacts from the Parton family as part of that archive, or is it part of a different one?
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D
So completely together, our family archive does have artifacts from our family going back hundreds of years. There's a. A fiddle in there that my great grandfather played that was passed down from his great grandfather. So we have been able to hold on to some of these items. Yeah. And we have my Grandmother's sewing machine that she made the coat of many colors on and the little seat that goes with it. So those are, like, very special artifacts that I'm glad that somebody in the family kept.
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A
That's amazing. And as Dolly herself tells us in the book's introduction, clothes are like songs. Just as hearing certain music brings back particular memories, so it is with certain outfits. So this book is basically Dolly's life and career told through the clothing she wears and the many, many beautiful stories literally sewn into the seams, starting with those of her youth in the 40s and 50s in rural Tennessee. And that's something I just so appreciate about this book, is it's chronological, right? And you start from the very beginning. And it's not going to come as a surprise to our listeners, perhaps, that Dolly began cultivating her personal style and sense of self from a very young age. And there. It's so cool in the book because you feature a page about her home foraged makeup kits, which I had no idea about. And then, of course, you talk about the clothes that her mom, your grandmother, made for her, the most famous being the coat of many colors. And your grandmother actually continued to make clothes for her as she began performing on local TV and radio stations, beginning, I think, from the age to 10 until she was, like, 18. So I'm just curious, what pieces from Dolly's youth do you have in the archive? And I'm sure I join our listeners in asking, does it include that coat?
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D
Okay, I'm gonna set the record straight forever about the coat. Dolly has talked about it, but I think when Dolly speaks on things, people get so fluttered with everything she says, they're not listening to her on this. The actual first coat of many colors does not exist anymore. And you have to understand that at that time, they were living in poverty. They did not know that she was going to be an icon. She was a little kid. And I think what I have been told is that all of the things that my grandmother made got repurposed for the next kitten. And so in my mind, my mother and my Aunt Stella were the next two girls in line. So I'm wondering if Di Valley's clothes weren't hand me downs for my mom. So I don't know if my mom ever wore the coat or if it just got turned into something else or it got taken apart. But, no, the original coat doesn't exist. However, when Dolly recorded Coat of Many Colors and put out the album back in 1978, I can't remember, she had my Grandmother replicate the coat so that they could do a little painting for the album cover. And so my grandmother went and replicated the coat on the original machine and used similar types of fabrics that she would have used to replicate it for that album cover. And we do have that coat. And that one has been lay at Dollywood. And now it lives in the family archive. And for me, I know it's not the original coat, but I know my grandmother and I know how magical she was. And I know that that coat is even more special because she. I might get emotional talking about it. She made that coat and knew that her daughter had made it. And so it was imbued with even more of her love and magic. And so, yeah, I mean, that coat is so special.
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A
And the fact that your grandmother was the one who recreated it too.
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D
Yeah, she recreated it on the original machine. So it's like, you know, it's. It's 2.0, but it's still so special because she knew at that moment that her daughter made it. Sorry.
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A
No, that's okay. Don't apologize. I've been holding back tears this entire time, so.
- [26:38]
D
Well, anytime I talk about my grandmother, I get emotional. I'm so close to her and I look a lot like her. So it's very special for me to be able to be in this position to take care of those clothes.
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A
Yeah, absolutely. And again, this chapter was just so insightful because you learned so much about Dolly Parton and who she was from a very young age. And again, just included this incredible sense of self. And she talks about how even though they did have little right to work with, she still had this huge imagination and she still knew how she wanted to look and dress from a young age. I love that story about painting Jesus sandals with pokeberries on your mother and the other siblings legs. And we can actually listen to Dolly talk about this herself with an excerpt from the audiobook Pokeberries.
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C
I tell stories about that. And so a girl that has dreams and a girl that has creativity, you come up with all kinds of stuff. When you don't have the real thing, you'll make do. I used to squash up all the honeysuckles to make perfume. And the Pokeberries were major because that was a dye that boy takes forever for it to come off. I would paint my lips with that. And you have to really water that down if you're gonna put it on your face. Cause that's a dark purple with stains like that. You know, there were all kinds of vegetables and fruits and wild plants that you could actually color, just like with the Pope Raiders. You could paint your toenails and fingernails. You could make polish out of that. It would stay on for a long time.
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A
So they just got creative. I mean, it's just so cool.
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D
Yeah. I don't think they had anything else to do in the mountains with whopping. Use what they had. And they did. And I think that's another thing to attribute to my grandmother. I mean, she was so resourceful. She would make a doll out of a corn husk. She could figure out a way to always make it work. And I think she gave that ability to all her kids because we've all figured it out and made it work with what we have.
- [28:37]
A
And can you talk about some of the early pieces that you do have in the collection? Because you had that high school band uniform. And then I think Dolly also mentioned something about, like, a vest that she performed in as a child.
- [28:48]
D
Yeah, we don't really have a lot of those early things. The band uniform is also a replica from her high school that they gave her.
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A
Oh, okay, cool.
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D
So that she could have. I think it's. If I'm not mistaken, I think the band uniforms always belong to the school, and you just wear it and then give it back. So I think that's what happened back in high school. But we've replicated a lot of things that Dolly wanted to have and wanted to display because it was special to her. The earliest piece we have is a blue dress that she wore in 1967 on the Porter Wagner show. That's the earliest garment that we have. But as far as artifacts go, we do have a lot of things that are from early days and like the sewing machine, that kind of stuff from the early early days. But again, I don't think they had the wherewithal that early on to start painting that kind of stuff.
- [29:35]
A
And you might not have the clothes, but you have a lot of fabulous pictures which are in that chapter. And again, seeing Dolly when she's three, seeing her as she kind of grows up was just such a treat.
- [29:46]
D
And I love little collage. And there's a picture of her. There's a couple of her, like, in a photo booth where she was taking her own headshot.
- [29:58]
A
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- [32:23]
A
So moving forward with the book, the 1960s, as you just kind of mentioned, is when Dolly's career really started to take off. She moves to Nashville. This is where she meets the famed country music star and TV personality Porter Wagner. He gives Dolly her big break. He puts her on his hit TV show and I just love this Porter Wagner story that Dolly recounts in the audiobook.
- [32:45]
C
I just remember being on the show and I remember Porter telling me when I first started to be part of the show that they did a gospel song every week and ask if I knew many hymns and I thought he was talking about I was. He was talking about clothes and he was talking about things. He said, well, do you know many hymns? And I said, no, I don't believe I do. Does she sew here in town? And then I realized he was talking about the gospel songs that we might do on the show.
- [33:13]
A
Can you help illustrate this pivotal period in Dolly's career for us in terms of what and who she was wearing?
- [33:20]
D
Yeah, so Dolly was really specific about her style back then. However, they wanted her to be a little bit more modest on tv. And she has said that she had enough respect for Porter and the thing that he was doing to bring the neckline up a little bit. So you notice that in the Porter days, like, she definitely isn't showing as much of the cleave as she comes to later. But at that time, early on in some of those first performances, a lot of those things are store bought that she had found around Nashville at some of the little department stores, like cast or not. But then she met a lady at the Porter Wagner show named Lucy Adams who made clothes. And she was one of the ones that kind of, I think she made clothes for a few of the little country music stars at that time, some of the smaller ones. And so Dolly started using Lucy very early on, within the first few episodes. And she started making clothes. But she was a home sewer. And so she made a lot of those clothes in her house. And her daughters helped her rhinestone them. Or, you know, you can tell the trim is some of the store bought trim that you would see on vintage handmade stuff. I love the. She uses like a lace ribbon, bias tape on all of the zippers in the back. And so those are always very specific to Lucy and how she made clothes. But then a story that I love too is Dolly met another lady at that time actually through her husband Carl. And the story goes that Carl had a car friend, like they would go drag racing together. His name was Bonnie Kemp. And one day they were hanging out and Bonnie Kemp said to Carl, my wife makes clothes. Maybe she can help Dolly with her Porter stuff. And so Dolly got introduced to Ruth Kemp through her husband and his friend. And Ruth actually started making clothes for Dolly. And Ruth is still alive. And she came to our makers exhibit that we had at the Lipscomb University recently. So it was really exciting to get to see her. And she brought us the original rhinestones setter that she had in her on her farm. And he's sitting in a barn and it's one of those like pneumatic press machines that you Put those prong set rhinestones in. And so now we have that in the archive, which is so exciting. But, yeah, those two women were basically the ones that were making clothes. I know early on, her Aunt Colleen, who was doing her wigs, I know she made a couple of things or would alter things for her as well. So I think it was always just whoever was there would help. And Tonelli had a specific style. She wanted to be comfortable, but she also wanted to be colorful.
- [36:02]
A
Yeah, I was gonna say. I mean, she might be a little more conservative in this period, but the big hairs there, the bright, colorful clothes are there.
- [36:10]
D
And I feel like the hemlines were kind of high, too. Yes.
- [36:13]
A
I love that photograph of your Uncle Bill with her and the knee scarf. And she captioned something like, well, the knee scarf style never took off, but I always liked it. And I think that. I mean, I'm like, okay, let's bring back the knee scarf.
- [36:27]
D
I thought that was when I found that photo in the archive. I was just like, what is up with the knee scarf? Because it was on a couple of different ones. Like, she had a white one that she was wearing this white vest with a little fur collar, and she had a little white knee scarf on. And I was like, what is this? And so I took her in the photo and I was like, explain the knee scarf to me.
- [36:46]
A
What was that?
- [36:47]
D
And she was like, oh, I just. I thought I was too cute and stylish. I think it's like wearing your belt sideways when you're 15.
- [36:55]
A
Yes, exactly. This section's also really cool because there's all those fab Polaroids and personal photos again throughout. But this has some really cool Polaroids, one of which is you see the beginnings of the butterfly motif. Can you talk about that significance to her? Because obviously today that still remains significant to Dolly Parton.
- [37:15]
D
I think her love for butterflies started as a child. I think she was always fascinated with how colorful they were and how she has said that she loves butterflies because they don't bite and they don't hurt you. They're just there to bring joy. And that kind of also is like her. You know, she is just a joy bringer, and she's bright and colorful. And so I think it just always made sense for her early branding, if she was even aware of branding at that time. But the picture, when I found the Polaroids, there were a few of her getting ready in the mirror on tour. And there were a couple that her Aunt Colleen had taken with the wigs, and there were just. They told Such a sweet story of that early time period and how small it really was, how small the little dressing rooms were, how she was just in the back of a Buick going to a show. Just how little it was. And back then for her, before she became like a superstar with an entourage. So I really loved that sweet moment. But the photo of her with the butterfly sunglasses, we actually just found those in the archive. They were, like, in a Rubbermaid box of sunglasses that were kind of in the back of a storage building. And I was like, amazing. Can I look through? I didn't open it. And I was like, it's the butterfly glasses from the book. And Lucian, who works in the archive with me, we both just like. We got so excited. We almost did a little dance.
- [38:40]
A
I can only imagine. Every day in the archive must just be so fun, especially when you're making discoveries like that or opening boxes that you haven't opened in a while.
- [38:48]
D
It's the treasure hunt, because you'll, you know, you'll open a garment bag and you'll put the thing on the dress form to take a picture of it, but then you'll find a belt in the bottom of the bag that doesn't go with it, but it goes to that other thing that I was looking for. And the venue we just completed, we found all of the different components. They were all separated out into other things, but we were able to put them all back together and find the album cover art for Great Balls of Fire. And that's one of my favorite album covers. And so to finally have that costume back together in one piece, I was like, oh, man. Like, I felt so accomplished that day.
- [39:25]
A
Incredible. And something else I loved learning in this book from reading it, which, I mean, I think I always knew. But it was interesting to read about how Dolly, from a very young age, knew who she wanted to be, knew how she wanted to look. She writes about how in the book, as a young teenager, she modeled her look after the town tramp. She says, I look cheap. And that was the way I liked it. No apologies. She liked being sexy. That did not change when she started her career. Maybe she covered up for Porter a little bit. And even she had people telling her, she writes in the book, you look more like a hooker than a singer. She did not care. The self confidence is what we love about her, right? And this non apology for who she is. And she carries that with her into her stage clothing, which just get more flashy and more sparkly as her career progresses into the 1970s. When her star as A solo artist was rising. It's during this period when she starts wearing what would become her stage staple, which is the jumpsuit of that era. So a rainbow variety are featured in this book. Can we talk about Dolly's Lucy suits? Not to be confused with nudie suits.
- [40:30]
D
Yes, I would love to talk about this. This is one of those common misconceptions that have bugs me to death now that I know better. But also, I've talked to Dolly about this at length because I really was surprised in the beginning when I got in the archives to work, that none of those jumpsuits were nudie suits. I actually thought that some of them were because Nudie had been saying, this is it. This is a nudie suit. This one is a nudie suit. And so when I first started working in the archives, I just. I didn't even check. I just esteemed it. So when we got to that section and started actually photographing those, and this was a few years ago, I mean, this is before the pandemic, we started photographing those and putting them on our digital database and getting everything prepped and ready. And I was like, wait a minute, these are not nudie suits. Because I work the conservator of our collection. Her name is Riley Reed. She's a local designer, and she has worked for Manuel, and she makes Western wear herself. And she is very well versed in vintage clothes, especially vintage Western wear. And as soon as she looked at these up close, she was like, no, those are not nudie. None of that is chain stitching. It's all applique with prongset rhinestones on it. And so it was very obvious to her with a trained eye, that those were definitely not nudie suits up close. And so we all. We discovered that they were all made by Lucy because they had her little Lucy in Music City tag in the back of them. And if they didn't have a Lucy tag in them, they had those obvious trim markings on the inside, like the bias tape that were obviously Lucy, because I know how it is today when we're working for her costume. Sometimes everything we make doesn't get a dolly tag in it when it's going out, because it has to be ready. It's going to be on stage in an hour. So you don't always get to put a tag in it beforehand. And so I think some of those were just. They were moving so fast, she didn't have a chance to put her tag in them. But the majority of them do have a tag, and all of them have her telltale signs of construction on the inside. And we do have some nudie suits in the archive, but they all belong to Porter or Don Warden, who was in the Porter band back in the day. So I know what nudies look like up close. I've seen the tags. I've seen the lining. I've seen the chain stitching. I know better up close.
- [42:55]
A
Yeah.
- [42:56]
D
And I get frustrated because the people who currently own the nudie brand, they keep posting things that they say are nudie suits of dollies even, so much that Billboard magazine put an article out about it. And I was like, you guys, this is not factual. And in fact, you're taking away from a woman designer and creator here in Nashville. And that is just bothersome for me because I'm a pretty big feminist.
- [43:23]
A
Yeah.
- [43:24]
D
So I don't want to see her work diminished in any. And so it's very frustrating that the current owners are so disrespectful about that fact. They even have a mural on the side of their bar, downtown Nashville here that has a Lucy suit. And they're claiming it as a nudie. And it's just maddening because they're calling. They're basically calling me a liar. And, you know, I'm. I'm a hillbilly. I don't. I don't take too kindly to that.
- [43:49]
A
But also, you have the evidence, right? You have. I feel like you have that yellow suit, that yellow Lucy suit in the archive with the label in it. What more evidence do you need?
- [44:00]
D
We published that. We put that in our books because we were so sure of it. So, yeah, it's really frustrating. I have invited the people that run the nudie archives to our archives so that they can see it up close. But I think for them, they need Dolly and her relevance for their brand. And so they are very. They're not going to let go of that easily. They don't. They don't mind the misconception. In other words, you know, they appreciate it for their benefit.
- [44:30]
A
Well, let's set that record straight, dress listeners. I mean, I certainly thought she wore nudie suits. And then. But once you read about it and you hear from Dolly herself in the book, who says she never had a nudie suit. And then she also explains the difference between country versus western, which is something I never thought about because country and western are so often grouped together. But she's from the country. Right. She's from rural Tennessee. That's the country in the backwoods and the mountains versus western. And she talks about how the nudie suits were so flashy and too flashy for her, for her liking. Right. So she just wanted something a little more country and less western. And you illustrate that beautifully in the book with her. And I think Porter, at their last Country Music awards together in 1975, there's a flashy purple nudie suit, and then there's the pink Lucy suit or dress. I can't remember next to it. And you can see the difference.
- [45:27]
D
Yeah. Dolly says, you know, I asked her this specifically in our interviews for the book, and I said, why didn't you have any nudie suits? And she said, at that time, I was just starting out and I didn't have the money for those and Porter going to pay for my wardrobe. So she says, like, those were really expensive and they were just out of her budget at the time. And so I think what happened, and I think the reason why the nudie people are claiming that they have receipts and they just released her. You know, they. They released this new thing on her birthday of what they claim are her measurements, which I think it's bs. But what I think, if they do have that stuff, I think maybe Porter had them a matching outfit that was going to be made that never was, because if it was, we don't have it. And all of the ones that they have claimed online, we have those. And they're not nudies.
- [46:19]
A
Right.
- [46:19]
D
So if it's some other suit that I've never seen that doesn't exist in our archive, show me the proof and I'll believe it when I see it. But so far, they're Lucy suits. They are not nudies.
- [46:30]
A
Yeah. And it's not about putting Nudie down. Right. Nudie has gotten his. We've done an episode on Nudie. Right. On Nudie Cohen. He's incredibly fun, famous western wear designer.
- [46:39]
D
And a huge fan. Yeah, exactly.
- [46:42]
A
But it's about giving Lucy Adams her due, too. Right. As you said. And so maybe we could do a Lucy Adams episode in the future, because really just incredible that she played such a big role in this early part of Dolly's career and really shaping the visual culture that will come to define Dolly's career moving forward. So Lucy Adams stress listeners, not Nudie Cohen, for sure.
- [47:05]
D
I mean, her and Ruth Kemp both deserve all of the flowers because they were the ones that really came in for her and made all of those clothes, and they were all home sewers. So I love that, you know, I feel like that should inspire people who are at home making their own show clothes or show clothes. For someone else. Your work is not invalidated because you're doing it in your living room. You can make an a historical piece that will be in a museum one day in your spare bedroom. There's nothing that can hold you back because, you know, Dolly's done it. Yeah.
- [47:36]
A
And I remember when we've interviewed Mary Wilson from the Supremes, she talks about making their clothes. Right. Or one of their mothers made their clothes in those early years. Those are defining elements of their early style. Is that that home dressmaking? Is that family connection with people making it for you?
- [47:52]
D
I, you know, I'm just, I do want to set this the record straight. I have nothing against nudie. I'm a huge fan. Even our author, Holly George Warren, she wrote the book on Western wear, how the West Was Worn. And so even she was very, very supportive of us getting this story out there. And it's not so much the nudie people that I have a problem with, it's the developer that owns that name now.
- [48:14]
A
So I get, yeah, it's about brand management.
- [48:17]
D
Yeah, I get, as you said, yeah, it's upsetting. And don't call me a liar.
- [48:22]
A
Yeah, exactly. No, I agree. I've been following it, so I completely agree and I'm glad we talked about it.
- [48:28]
B
Thank you, duress listeners, with that fantastic bit of fashion history myth busting, we conclude today's episode, but not our conversation with Rebecca, who will be back on Friday to continue our discussion of Dolly's style evolution beginning in the 1980s when Dolly took Hollywood by storm.
- [48:47]
A
In the meantime, dress listeners, make sure you head over to our Instagram restorepodcast to check out all of our fabulous content connected to this week's episodes. The hashtags specifically connected to these two episodes are Dressed 354 and Dressed 355. While you are there, you will definitely want to check out Rebecca's own Instagram rebeccaann Seaver S E A V E R where Rebecca often documents their work with Dolly and Dolly's fantastic archive. And if you aren't already, you might want to give Dolly a follow too. Dolly Parton.
- [49:19]
B
And if you also haven't already, you're going to want to get your hands on this book, behind the My Life in Rhinestones. And we're going to provide a link for you to purchase the book from our dressed bookshelf on bookshop.org where you'll find over 120 of our favorite and podcast featured fashion history titles. We're also going to tag a link to the audio version of the book which is a companion to not exactly a direct copy of the book, and it features interviews not just with Dolly, but the many people she has worked with over the years as well.
- [49:51]
A
Well, and a very special thank you to Rebecca and the Penguin Random House Audio team for providing us with the excerpts from the audiobook that we heard throughout today's episode. This book is in so many ways a love letter to all of the individuals who Dolly really credits with her success. And of course, it's a love letter to her many fashion adoring fans. And that does it for us today. Dress listers, may you consider the many stories that lie behind the seams of your wardrobe next time you get dressed. We love hearing from you, so please email us@hellorusthistory.com dressedhistory.com is of course our website where you're going to find information on all our upcoming fashion history tours, classes and anything else we have up our sleeves for this year.
- [50:34]
B
Yes, and that includes registration, which is now open for my first class in the Great Designer Series, Euro American Fashion's Innovators and Icons, Part 1, which is starting on April 6th. And also you can head over over to our website to check out and sign up for my ongoing private fashion history tours at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City. That does it for us today, dress listeners. As always, thank you for your continued support. More Dressed and more Dolly coming your way on Friday. The History of Fashion is a production of Dressed Media.
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